Chandler Walker - AKA The Care Hacker: Creating a Culture of Care Through Wellness, Mental Health, Social Health, Sleep, Nutrition & Habits - GAIN THE PASSION

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Voiceover (00:00):
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That's success.com/podcasts.
Welcome to the SUCCESS CoachingPodcast. On today's episode, our
guest, Chandler Walker, shareshis own personal journey to
success. Because success is ajourney, not a destination.

(00:45):
Here's the hosts of the SUCCESSCoaching Podcast, Todd Foster,
Alyssa Stanley, and Kelley Skar.

Alyssa Stanley (00:55):
Hey everybody, welcome back to the SUCCESS
Coaching Podcast. My name isAlyssa Stanley. I am here with
Kelley Skar and Todd Foster.
Bringing in the second podcastof the New Year. I hope everyone
had a great ringing in of 2022.
Today we get to sit down withChandler Walker, aka the Care
Hacker. Thanks for hanging outwith us today.

Chandler Walker (01:16):
Yeah, thanks for having me. Hopefully, we can
get people some value. And it'snot super boring. And people
don't fall asleep at the wheelwhile they're driving listening
to the podcast. So let's dothis.

Todd Foster (01:25):
With the name of Chandler Walker, it's tough not
to get excited in the firstplace.

That's true.
It's like you've got Chandlerfrom friends. And you got Walker
Texas Rangers. So I've got twomovies to star things in that
name.

It's great.

So why don't you start out by telling us a little
bit about the care hacker namethat you carry?

Yeah, so my whole life and my philosophy has
been create a culture of care.
And ultimately, we call ourbusiness, the culture of care.
And when people ask what I do,it's not like well, I run a
business, I'm the CEO, I dothings, it's I I hacked people's
ability to care about otherpeople. And we do that through
conversational to throughtherapeutic conversations. And
we do that in a salesenvironment. And ultimately, the

(02:04):
way I sort of figured this outwas, as a kid, I had a mother
who was bipolar. And so growingup, it was really challenging to
learn to communicate with herbecause there's very deep highs
and very deep lows. And I thinka lot of people learn to hate
their parents for that, becausethey don't recognize or
understand it. And when I was akid, it was very much you don't
talk about mental healthproblems don't exist. And you

(02:25):
just need to put a smile on yourface and pretend there's not an
issue. So from a young age, Istarted learning how to
communicate in a neutral way. Soif someone says something not to
get offended or upset, but totry to define the problem and
understand what's happening, andwhat's really going on, which
really put me a step ahead ofthe game in my ability to
communicate moving into my adultlife. And from my experiences
with her, I moved into abiochemistry realm, I was going

(02:47):
to pursue med school. But I gotreally disenfranchised by the
system. I was going into thisthing to help people I was going
in this thing to make adifference. I was going into
this thing because as a kid, Isaw what this kind of suffering
could do to people. But I foundmyself just walking into a room
and prescribing medication. Andso it really hit me hard. And
that that was not theenvironment in the life that I

(03:09):
was willing to live. And Ididn't feel like I was helping
people. And it's not a shot atdoctors, it's a shot at the
system. If I tell you to eat anapple, I'm going to get sued.
But if I give you a pill, you'rehappy fine and dandy. And so
that just wasn't my life. And,and that's the moment I really
decided that I needed to breakoff and I needed to do my own
thing. And that's when we builtour first business, which was a
brick and mortar called StoneAge school where we help people

(03:29):
in six areas of wellness, mentalhealth, social health, sleep,
nutrition, and ultimatelyhabits.

That's really cool. You go against the grain
of what everyone is so used to Imean, this this instant fix and
instant gratification of I havethis issue. Let's get a
prescription and pop a pill. Yougo against that which, you know,
caveat here, I take prescriptiondrugs for multiple sclerosis. I

(03:55):
think there's a place for thatin I think there's a place for
Western medicine, but also whatyou offer as well in the more
holistic sense to help peoplelive more well balanced and
rounded lives through what itsounds like nutrition and mental
health. So you're really kind ofhacking the system as far as
your care hacker.

Yeah, exactly.
And part of the moniker was wewanted to say medication isn't a
problem, but it can't itshouldn't be the only answer.
And in some cases, it needs tobe the answer. But so for us, we
worked on those six pillars andwe also set it up so we could
get permission to speak with thepatient, the customer prospects
doctor and work with them intandem to create health care
plans and to create long termplans so that people could be

(04:36):
successful and, and healthy longterm. And we end up getting
people coming in. I remember oneguy was in his late 70s Just got
off a year worth of throatcancer and he needed a place to
gain weight or end up in thenursing home. And so we ended up
with him, which resulted in thatperson and us all speaking
together with their doctor tomake sure we had the right
treatment plan. We had the rightprotocol, the doctor was on the
same page. And ultimately wewere able to help change lives

(04:58):
at a standard of care that wasmuch higher than you would just
get regular health care realm.

Kelley Skar (05:05):
Very interesting.
My wife is a psychologist, andwe, you know, one of the things
that I learned early on once mywife was licensed, was the
massive difference betweenpsychiatry and psychology, in
psychology is essentiallyhelping to rewire the brain
through thought process anddiscovery and whatnot in
psychiatry, although has some ofthe same aspects it has has a

(05:26):
greater emphasis on utilizingdrugs to help with that rewiring
and reprogramming. How did youcome up with this? I mean, it
wasn't Chandler, just yourexperience with your mom, and
that that sort of thing. Buthave you gone through some
depression, like where it wasthere? Were there instances in
your life where you had to kindof pull yourself up by your

(05:47):
bootstraps? I mean, what was itthat kind of propelled you into
into this profession? And, youknow, I guess health? I mean,
your your background is inphysical health, right? Like
you're your nutrition coach, andall that kind of stuff, are you
not?

Yeah, my background was biochemistry and
molecular biology and universityand right, I got really good at
negotiating with my advisors. SoI was able to focus on
biochemistry and molecularbiology, immunology and
microbiology as a sort ofmainstay. And the other thing,
unique thing that I can add thatcame about was because of what I
went through with my mother, andwhat later in my 20s, when I was

(06:25):
in college, she was able tofigure out what was going on
through cognitive behaviortherapy and a couple of other
modalities. And so then Istarted to learn what that
aspect of psychology and sciencelooked like. And I was able to
gain a mentor who was a PhD incognitive behavior therapy and
focused on sleep modalities andthat stuff. And so I was able to
start learning during my collegecareer about cognitive behavior

(06:48):
therapy, about motivationalinterviewing about acceptance,
commitment, therapy, andultimately, what thoughts and
beliefs are, how thoughts andbeliefs are formed and
constructed how people operateas emotional animals. And then
it really helped me start todesign this, this sort of
curriculum that was my like mydream animal for this business.
And so then I took thosethoughts and ideas, and I built

(07:08):
a Facebook page off of it. Wewent from obviously zero
followers, and ultimately up toabout 30,000 followers, testing
these concepts, and just puttingthings out live and talking to
people and getting feedback. Andit started to help me evolve
this curriculum, because I wasable to say, hey, here's the
concept I'm thinking about,here's what it means to you. And
then I would get immediatefeedback from it, I would go and
rebuild it, rewire it, readjustit. And over the course of five

(07:30):
or six years, I was able tobuild this cohesive,
constructive curriculum that hadthe mental health component, the
social health component, thesleep component, the nutrition,
fitness and habits, components.
And in my opinion, at the end ofthe day, the most important
components were the mentalhealth, the social health and
the sleep. It didn't even matterif people focused on fitness and
nutrition in the beginning,because if they didn't take care
of those first three aspects,everything else was gonna get

(07:50):
crushed. Right?

When you were doing your studies. At some point, the
light bulb clicked right? Whereyou were like, Okay, this is not
really the path I'm looking togo towards in terms of the
medical doctor prescribingdrugs. Was there a point at in
college or during your studiesthat that happened, where you
said, Okay, it's time to switchgears and actually go to the

(08:13):
lipstick, we're out instead ofthe pill and we trust you're
better.

Yeah, I remember the exact moment at the
same time. So I was preceptingdown in Vegas, one of the
medical centers and I wassitting in the back watching the
doctor do his thing. It was aninternal medicine doc. And he
had a patient who came in and hesaid, Hey, did you work on your
diet? Did you work on nutrition,some of the stuff we talked
about, and the patient justlooked at him and said, Nope, I
just I like my steak and mysteak and taters and I would

(08:39):
just like a refill on mymedications. And he left and the
doctor would just he, they'redefeated a little bit and like,
you just can't help everybody.
And we just don't have theresources to make it happen. And
in that moment, I just, I wasn'tready to accept the fact that I
had to accept defeat right offthe bat.

Alright, so I'm curious, your you know, in kind
of the preamble, we talked alittle bit about, you know,
compassion conversations, andI'm just looking at the the
message that you sent us and in,you know, wanting to be on the
show. And one of the things thatyou had said that you wanted to
share with our audience wasselling high end services
through compassion,conversations, maybe we can dive

(09:17):
into that a little bit and kindof have that discussion.

Yeah, for sure.
happy to chat about that aspect.
And so this goes into the nextpiece of my obsessive life with
not being able to settle forsomething and changing the game
or changing the way it works. Sothe same thing that I had with
the med school route, when I gotinto the business, I got into
the realm of entrepreneurshipnow. So it's a whole different
world. Nobody's telling you whatto do. My dad owned a business

(09:40):
for siding and windows. So as akid, I went with him he would
give me a donut and oranges sixin the morning, take me to
customers houses and I wouldwatch him communicate and do
things which was, which waspretty neat and probably gave me
a little bit of the strength toreally break off and move into
that brick and mortar businessthat we had. But my next problem
was our services were fairlyexpensive for this realm because
we had this holistic approach,we were working with physicians

(10:02):
and we had this really neatthing going on. So to come in
and work with us, it was about$2,500 for less than three
months. And then when we shiftedto an online realm, once the
pandemic hit, it was $3,200 towork with us for three months.
And so there's a fairly high endsales environment for a health
business. It's not like peopleare getting an ROI. Well, a
financial ROI off of this. Soit's usually seen as as

(10:24):
challenging hill to get through.
And so as I was learning theprocess of being able to sell
these services, I obviouslyhired coaches to help me with
sales. And most of the coaches Ihired, were telling me, you have
to be aggressive, you have topush these people into making a
decision, you have to myfavorite one, you have to assume
the clothes, just tell them Visaor MasterCard and and collect
their info. And, and I lookedback and I was like, this is

(10:45):
another defining moment, I waslike, I got into this world, to
change lives to help people Ileft the other world because I
wasn't going to accept defeat.
And now I'm in another worldwhere I have to manipulate to
get people to make a decision tohelp them. This makes no sense.
And so I looked back, I waslike, alright, what am I doing?
I've enrolled a lot of people inthis program without sales
coaching. And I thought this wasgoing to level me up. But this

(11:07):
put me in an existential crisis.
And so then I looked back and Isaid, Okay, what was I doing, I
took the concepts that we had inour mental health modalities,
motivational interviewing,cognitive behavior, therapy,
acceptance, Commitment Therapy,and I combine those to create a
therapeutic sales process towhere we could not just find the
pain. But we could connect thedots to the past, we could take
the past that we connected tomove it into the future, help

(11:28):
them understand triggersassociated with why they weren't
seeing success, and then reframeand redefine the problem to a
much bigger problem at hand. Andthen you have a magical
lightbulb moment that goes offin these people's heads. They
say, Wow, nobody's ever talkedto me like that. Nobody's ever
told me this. I never evenunderstood this was a problem.
I've tried this so many times.
But it's been here all along.
And when people have that, thatlightbulb moment, almost like

(11:50):
this, this magical moment, theirentire thinking process changes
to what do I do now? And sothat's the process, I sort of
developed to be able to say, wedon't have to manipulate you, we
just need you to come to yourown truth in the conclusion of
it's probably not what you'rethinking it's probably a much
bigger issue.

Well, I think you're able to transfer that
from a quote on quote, sale,close a sale, to giving them a
service. Because you're allowingthem the opportunity to see how
their life can be changed.
You're not selling themanything, you're offering them a
life changing service andhelping them connect the dots,
dots to how you can truly impacttheir life.

Exactly. And so people go through the process,
and it's not me telling them doyou want in this at the end of
the day, we just say, that's allI have for today. What do you
want to do from here? And it'salways what can I enroll? And
then I have this concept ofchallenging leadership. So well,
well, yeah, of course, you canenroll. But is that the best
thing for you? Do you think thiswill make you successful? So we

(12:51):
challenge them, so then theyhave to sell themselves on to
why it might be appropriate forthem to enroll. And some people,
I tell people, I'm gonna fightwith you to make sure you don't
buy this thing. And it's true,because I want that decision to
be so solidified and so strongand so powerful, that they come
into the onboarding call pumped,they're excited, there's no
refund request, there's no Idon't know what I did. I spent

(13:12):
so much money, there's, I justmade the commitment to change
the rest of my life. And I'mproud of myself for doing.

How do you get people from the belief of
whatever that belief is, andit's usually against something?
And maybe people could say,Okay, I'm against the holistic
thing. Others could say I'm, I'magainst pharmaceutical drugs,
once you have them in yourprogram, it's great, right?
They've actually made thedecision to change. What's the

(13:40):
process of getting them there inthe first place where they're
finally being more open mindedand willing to hear that there's
other ways of doing things?

Yeah, that's a good question. And I think that
comes into play in ourmarketing. So we have this
tenant in marketing, and this isgonna sound crazy, but we don't
produce helpful content. Becausehelpful content is a commodity,
a commodity puts you in themarket of everybody else. If I
teach you five tips to loseweight, well, guess what? So is
everyone else so nobody cares?
But if I've talked to you aboutwhy diets are as addictive as
cigarettes, and why you'refighting the wiring inside your

(14:10):
brain, by continuously doingdiet, some of her care
attention, because it's like,Hold on, why would they be as
addictive as cigarettes, then westart talking about diets being
as are an addiction to hope, thehope that it will work, but then
the hope never comes into playyou take before pictures. And so
our marketing plays into thesedeep held beliefs and these deep
held reasons to why they thinkthey haven't been successful.

(14:32):
And we reframe, redefined it tothe bigger problem at hand, or
create an analogy to help themunderstand that there's
something else going on. Andwhen we look at belief patterns
in human beings, we're not goingto connect with them logically,
we're going to connect with thememotionally. So the deeper we
can drive into them emotionally,the more we can tell a story
about that emotion and thatfeeling and why it exists, the
more likely that we're going toestablish the idea that we have

(14:54):
something unique, we havesomething safe, and we're
someone they can trust.

I'm assuming you have some knowledge on NLP is
that correct?

I've studied NLP as a subset of a lot of what
I've done, I believe we're morefocused on sort of the idea of
the cognitive behavior therapyside. But I do think NLP has a
lot of value in it, I feel NLPis a little bit more short term
versus CBT. And stuff like thatcan be a little bit more long
term. So you can use them intandem to really create these
strategies and really designthese belief changing paradigms

(15:28):
in LP is more of a short termsolution than what you're doing
long term wise. Yeah, and thereason I believe NLP is a more
short term is because NLP isabout changing beliefs and
reframing in the moment, but itdoesn't have the ability to
solidify or anchor that momentlong term for people. And when
you look at a modality, likeCBT, cognitive behavior therapy,

(15:50):
it's about creating that anchorpoint, it's about creating that
core belief and understandingthat core identity, and then
recognizing and working throughhow to spot that trigger over
time and how to manage thattrigger. That's the difference
between NLP and CBT. And that'sreally why I emphasize with our
team and our people why we're alot more CBT focus, because I
am, I'm not doing therapy, but Iam focused on long term change

(16:12):
for people I don't want adecision to be made. And then
well, logic brain gets intoplay, did I make the right
decision? Or was I manipulated?
And so often in our teachings, Itell people, we teach you how to
do this without an over relianceon NLP or an over reliance on a
short term strategy.
So Kelley lives in Canada. I'min the United States. When it
comes back to pharmaceuticaldrugs, it seems that North

(16:36):
America in general, loves tohave here's the pill, take it,
if it doesn't make you better.
Here's another one that shouldhelp you get over the side
effects of the other one. Andyour opinion when you go around
the world and you see the healthcare, and what's available
outside of North America. Do youthink we'll ever catch up to

(16:56):
other countries that are doingthings such as what you're doing
at a high level and stuff beingdriven by pharmaceuticals and
stock prices and bonus payoutsto executives?

Yeah, that's a really good question. And it's
such a challenging question toanswer for the North American
market for lack of a betterterm. Because I've seen the
Canadian market and I've seenthe Netherlands and Europe,
Europe and just a lot of otherplaces who are light years ahead
of us in terms of thatenvironment. And in my opinion,
I'm not convinced that NorthAmerica is prepared to handle

(17:33):
anything outside of thepharmaceutical fix on on
problems. I think our next bigproblem is going to be a mental
mental health epidemic. And it'sgoing to be and we're going to
try to solve it with a pill. Wealready have a an obesity
epidemic, and we're trying tosolve it with a pill,
everything's coming out with apill. But when we fundamentally
mentally look at it, thosearen't helping, what we're doing

(17:55):
is we're putting a bandaid onproblems. But the problem is
insurance companies make pricesand make pills and or they don't
make pills, but they set theprices with hospitals and they
own the market. And so if theycontinue to own the market,
there is no change that can bemade. And they are going to
continue owning the marketbecause they have the money to
lobby. And if you have the moneyto lobby, there can be no change

(18:16):
created because there's noindustry as large as, as those
industries who could precipitateand create change through high
level lobbying.

I appreciate what you're doing. I my wife
practices CBT. And it's a largepart of her practice. And you
know, she's continually shedeals with people that that have
that deal with depression anddeal with anxiety and deal with
substance abuse. And you know,she's continually having these
conversations, we get in fairlydeep into these conversations

(18:43):
and in what she does to helppeople out. Can you kind of
maybe run us through a littlebit alleged a small piece of
your program, like if I were tocome into your program, and I
had, you know, a problem withweight loss, for instance, this
being you know, obviously afairly big topic, what would be
you know, some of the firstthings that we would be talking
about?

Yeah, that's a good question. So when someone
comes in with a problem withweight loss for us, typically,
they've gone through 5000different diets, they've gone
through the vegan diet, they'vegone through the Hollywood
cookie diet, they've goneeverything under the sun. And so
the first thing that we want todo is help them recognize that
their identity is attached todieting. So the first thing we
do is we explore their identity,like who are you outside of

(19:22):
diets? Who are you outside ofthis person trying to lose
weight? Who are you outside ofbeing a mom, who are you outside
of work? Just who are you? Andmost people can't answer that
question. Because they haven'tthought about it. They don't
know. They don't understand howto answer it. So we work with
them to be able to answer thatquestion like, What is your
identity? Then our next step isto recognize values, like our
diets, the highest valueproposition in your life right

(19:43):
now. And typically, obviously,the answer's no. So it's okay.
Let's look at family. Let's lookat work. Let's look at
spirituality. Let's look at allthese different modalities. And
let's assign them a rate of onethrough 10. And then next to
that, once you assign thoserankings, I want you to assign
one to 10 How closely you'reliving up to those values. And
then once we create that value,sort of that values KPI

(20:04):
worksheet, we set up a plan,like how are we going to move
you to a position to whereyou're living closer to those
values. And it sounds like we'renot focusing on weight loss. But
what we're doing is we'reshifting them away from this
lifestyle of dieting, thislifestyle of focusing on losing
weight, and this, thisneuroticism surrounding it and
moving their their brain intothinking about what's more
important to them, which allowsus to then shift into a process

(20:28):
of weight loss without actuallyhaving to do anything with it.

There's so many quote on quote gurus and
industry professionals thatclaim to battle diseases through
nutrition and claim to help youlose weight through certain
programs, yet, their backgroundknowledge and there, they don't

(20:53):
have the credentials needed tofollow through on their promise.
So you know, other other thanwhat you've clearly stated,
you're very educated, you grewup seeing what happens when
someone doesn't have that careand that need, but what sets
what you're doing apart from,from other people who say, Well,

(21:16):
I can come on, and I can helpyou lose 20 pounds through keto
and blah, blah, blah.

Yeah, that's a good question. And so I
recognize where my limitationsare, I know that I can build
something. And I know I'vedesigned something new and
interesting. But I alsorecognize that I'm not a
therapist, I'm not a doctor. SoI bring people on who do have
those credentials. So we do havea PhD in Clinical Psychology,
who is on on staff with us, andwho is available for the
program, who can chat withclients and do that kind of

(21:43):
stuff. We have other peopleinvolved who are health coaches,
and who have differentmodalities, for lack of a better
term, who are able to work indifferent environments for
people relating to mental healthrelating to the social side of
things relating to the sleepside of things, nutrition. And I
guess fitness is kind of a catchall. So people who can help with
fitness. And so we are able tobring a team together that can

(22:06):
work together to create thiscohesive evolution to help
people and not just say, like,Look, I'm a guru, and I know
everything, I'll be the firstperson to tell people that I
don't really know anything. Andthat's why I've been able to
accomplish so much. And I'm notafraid to bring people on board
who know more than me, I don'thave an ego, I think it's been
beat out of me a few times. Sothat's gone. And now at this

(22:27):
point, I'm my goal is to have a97% or higher client success
rate. And so if that ever dipsaway or falls, we go into DEFCON
five mode to figure out why whatwe can do to improve how we can
fix it, how we can adjust it andmake sure that what we're
producing is gold standard.

So I want to peel some layers back a little
bit because I really, I reallyenjoy when I talk to
professionals who are in theprofession that they're in,
because of a core purpose orsomething that happened in our
life, such as your mom, you grewup, where she was fairly
unstable. She had bipolar Atwhat age was she diagnosed?

She actually didn't recognize what it was
bipolar disorder until I was inmy 20s.

Okay

So we with our whole childhood, just thinking,
and this is gonna soundterrible, just thinking mom's
crazy.

Yeah

Mom's sad all the time. I'm sleeping all the
time. And, and I can tell you,most kids end up hating their
parents for this, and they don'trepair that relationship. And
I'm lucky enough to have beenable to recognize how to
communicate with her how to workher out of these issues, and
ultimately how to love her forwho she is not what should not
hate her for what she'ssuffering from. And so, to this

(23:34):
day, I still have a really goodrelationship with her. And it's
really allowed me to propelmyself forward and recognize
that you have to put your egoaside, you have to put your
emotions aside sometimes whenwe're working with people and
when speaking with people so youcan meet them where they're at.
There is no real right or wrong.
There's no Yes or No, there'sjust the world they live in the
world I live it. And that'sdictated by the way we grew up
and the things that happenedalong the way.

How did you learn to cope with that as a
child because that what you justdescribed? Is it that takes a
lot of growing up to understand,probably, you know, late teens,
early 20s is when you might haveprobably come to that
realization but when you wereyounger and didn't have that
maturity. How did you cope withthat?

Yeah, I think that's that's a good question. I
think as a kid, I've always beenable to I've always been a
patient person. So as a kid, Ididn't have a lot of like
emotional fluxes or anything,which was my mom being the way
she is you think that it wouldbe passed on to me genetically.
So as a kid, I kind of learnedand I think this may have been a
defense mechanism, but I kind oflearned that if I go on

(24:38):
emotional outbursts, I can'tprotect myself. And then if I go
on emotional outbursts, I havetwo sisters. I can't protect my
sisters. And so I think I had togrow up fairly young to be able
to protect myself and the othermembers of my family to make
sure that things stay stable.

Voiceover (24:57):
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What you're doing for mental health is amazing.
And I truly desire for the roleto change where people are doing
more of what you're doing.
Because you brought up the factthat we are becoming more and
more mental, right? And it's notjust mental smart, it's mental
about everything in a negativeway. Do you see us eventually
ever getting to where we allpicture this happening, or do

(25:29):
you believe it's gonna be acontinuous struggle? Of Okay,
yeah, you have some mentalissues. I'm gonna go back to my
pill thing. Here's a pill.

Yeah, that's a good question. And sadly, I'm of
the mindset that we are not inany sort of capabilities to
solve this problem. I thinkwe're going to continue trying
to solve it with pills, I thinkit's going to continue to get
worse. And I think it's going toessentially, it's going to do
what COVID is doing to ourmedical system in the future,
it's going to collapse thesystem, because we already can't

(26:02):
sustain it, you look at themarket right now. Say you want
to see a psychiatrist or apsychologist in California, it's
going to be an eight week weekto talk to somebody. And that's
ridiculous. Because if someone'ssuffering from mental illness,
and they have to wait eightweeks, they're going to do
things that they probablyshouldn't do within that
timeframe, because they're goingto move into an irrational

(26:23):
mindset. We have people who areveterans who are tier three,
which means like, they need totalk to somebody now, they can't
talk to someone for weeks at atime. So the only way to combat
that is give them someone totalk to. And the reason that
we've been successful in thatenvironment is because we talk
to them every day, every everyevening, they get a text from
us, it says how to go onethrough 10. And they're able to

(26:44):
open up, they're able to be realabout it, they're able to give
us their true emotions. Andthat's what gets people to move
from I don't know what I'mdoing, I hate myself to I'm
starting to learn how to managethis. I'm starting to learn how
to talk about this. And I'mstarting to feel better about
who I am. And I just don't thinkwe're ever going to be in a
position to be able to handlethis. With the current thinking

(27:05):
and philosophy we have andmodern and current, at least the
US based medical system.

Yeah, I think you touched on on something there
and made a really good point andthat there's, you know, an eight
week waiting period inCalifornia I know in Kelowna,
BC, where I'm at, there's amassive waitlist right now to
see psychologist as well. Thissounds to me like a personnel
problem, you know, there justaren't enough psychologists out
there to to help and serve thepublic at large. You know, and I

(27:35):
don't know if that's becausethere's, you know, people
aren't, it takes a living withand no, having been with my wife
for 18 years. And you know, herbeing a psychologist for the
last six or seven years, I seethe type of personality that it
takes to be successful in theirfield. And this is not for

(27:56):
everyone, right, there's acertain level of empathy and
compassion that you need tohave. And, and not just that,
but be able to absorb what whatpeople are telling you on a
daily basis. And then, at somepoint, be able to have an outlet
for release, you know, torelease some of that emotion
that's been projected onto you.
So I think that you kind ofnailed it in a nutshell. That's,
I think, ultimately, it comesdown to personnel. And it comes

(28:17):
down to being able to have asystem that's going to support
people getting into helpingother people with mental health
issues. And it's like, how doyou solve the healthcare crisis?
How do you solve that, while youhire more nurses? Okay, great.
Where do we get more nursesfrom? Right? Like, it's, you
know, you encourage more andmore people to go into into
those into those areas of work.

(28:42):
Right, which isn't always goingto happen. It's it's incredibly
difficult. So it's almost likewe're in this perpetual loop.

Exactly. And it's this loop that we can't
seem to figure out how to solvebecause it's like, we need more
nurses how to get more nurses,you do recruiting campaign,
okay, now we have nurses burningout, okay, now, how do you deal
with nurse retention, and thenit's this huge problem. And when
you look at the world ofpsychologists, they need almost
a step below them, like anempathetic listener, whatever
you call it, like a physician'sassistant for the psychology

(29:10):
realm to where you can amplifythe psychologist ability to
speak tenfold across the board.
But then it comes right backinto what you're saying, you get
provider burnout, you startgetting people with real
problems, and all of a sudden,the provider starts experiencing
those problems. And so then youget burned out there. And so it
becomes this problem that maybein the beginning is solvable,
but in the end becomescataclysmic and it's something
that's cascading. So it becomesreally difficult and really

(29:32):
expensive to solve long term.

You know, I love this conversation. We're going
fairly deep on some of thesetopics, but I do want to dial
this back kind of more into asales, you know, perspective
sales environment, so you wouldtalk instead, you know,
something, again, you know, alittle while ago here, are you
talking about storytelling? Ithink some of the most
successful conversations thatI've had with people regardless
of whether I'm trying to sellthem a house or sell them on

(29:57):
coaching or whatever the caseis, is being able to tell my
story or tell a version of mystory or tell something a story
about what's happened to me ormy experience, you know, around
that, you know that thatpurchasing that home or selling
that home or, or being coachedby somebody else. So how how
would you coach someone on froma sales perspective? Is it just

(30:19):
from from a storytellingperspective? Or is there like a
list of questions that you'vethat you've developed that that
you pass along to people thatyou're coaching? Like, what?
What is it? What iscompassionate conversation with
respect to sales?

Yeah, that's a good question. So it comes into
what we call become becoming acognitive questioner and an
empathetic listener so that youcan connect the dots. And what
that means is someone will comein and say, Look, I want to I
want to buy this house. Okay,well, what makes you want to buy
this house? Why thisneighborhood? Well, because of
this, and that, Oh, okay. Well,well, what makes that important?
What Why do you like that? Andso it's similar to the way you

(30:57):
would ask questions like a CBTenvironment, I'm working to
figure out and understand wherethe core belief and identity
behind what they want is, thenonce I connect that it's like,
okay, well, this is the reasonyou want it. Okay, well, maybe
it's it's this, but maybe it'salso this, then we can start
using maybes to start movingthem into the analogy. We want
to take weight loss. Forexample, someone says, I can't

(31:17):
lose weight. Well, why can't youlose weight? Well, I've tried 74
diets, which ones? Oh, I'vetried keto. I've tried
pescetarian I've tried the 48hour Hollywood cookie diet.
Gotcha. What well, how long?
Have you been kind of trying tofigure this out? Well, I've been
trying since I was a kid,really, I've always had weight
problems. Oh, well talk to meabout what life was like as a
kid. Well, every night atdinner, we had to eat our entire
plate and, and oh, okay, and nowI've just connected the dots. So

(31:39):
now I say, Okay, well, maybeit's not the diets, maybe it has
nothing to do with diets, itmight be the fact that you had
to eat your entire plate as akid. And that's turned into a
trigger. And so now whenever youhave a plate in front of you,
you need to finish the wholething. Because that was
essentially beat into you as achild. And so right now you're
fighting the wiring inside yourbrain that says eat that whole

(31:59):
plate when you're trying to loseweight. So maybe it has nothing
to do with nutrition really, atall, it has to do with portions
and removing this trigger. SoI've essentially helped them go
from diets to past to the realissue, we've been able to
redefine the problem to the realproblem at hand. And so I think
we teach people how to do thathow to speak in a way to where

(32:21):
we can uncover the real problem,move it to connect the dots to
the past, take the past connectsthe future, connect that to the
triggers associated with whythere hasn't been success, or
why they don't have what theywant, and then use that to
reframe to the bigger problem athand.

When it comes to people having certain conditions
like being addicted to diets orcigarettes or having a mental
health issue, is there ever atime where they self discovered
themselves before someone bringsup to them? Where they almost do
their own self intervention?

Yeah, I think people can self discover and
really figure out what's goingon, someone can all of a sudden
figure out like, you know what,I haven't been sleeping well.
And when I don't sleep well,again, wait, maybe there's a
connection here. And they canstart to sleep better. And all
of a sudden, they fix theirproblem on their own. And I
think it happens with people whoare fairly self aware, and
people who pay attention towhat's going on and people who
question themselves. And I thinkthat's a really high level

(33:16):
quality. I think for a majorityof people, they're not capable
of doing that, because they'renot present with themselves. And
they don't recognize that thesethings are happening. But I
definitely think it's possible.
And I've definitely seen peopledo it before. Even for myself, I
constantly questioned myself. Soif something's going on, well,
why is it happening? What'sgoing on? What did I do
yesterday? How did I sleep? Whatwent over and over here? So I
think if you have that sort ofmindset, you can create that

(33:38):
change, and you can do it onyour own. And so I don't think
you necessarily always have togo find someone to hire someone.
But if you have no idea what'sgoing on, that's really where it
comes into play to help. Haveyou discovered any personality
types. Let's say a drivercompared to someone who's a deep
thinker, having more success,and others are having more of a

(33:59):
failure rate, in terms ofgetting out of their own heads
and accepting change. Yeah, Ithink the the personality types
that have the most troubleadapting to change are sort of
the scattered personality types.
We've found in our practice,that these are the kinds of
people that we always have tosort of move the goalposts for

(34:20):
and adjust the rules for andcreate the change for and so if
that starts happening, that's apattern we recognize. And that's
a moment where we can refund theperson if we've actually
enrolled them or tell them likewe're not going to be a good
fit. I think that personalitytype needs a higher level
standard standard of care, theyneed more and holding, they need
almost a clinical setting torecover and get better. And so I

(34:42):
think that's the one that reallyhas a big problem adapting to
and actually creating change andfollowing through with that
change.

If you have someone in your life, such as the people
that you describe theirpersonality that you described,
and you tell them you know what,we just cannot help because you
need more help. How do you dothat in a nice way, or caring
way, or empathetic orsympathetic way? Where you're

(35:10):
showing that you care about theminstead of rejecting them and
letting them down? Yeah, that'sa good question. And I think
this comes into what I callsuggestive leadership. So if I
tell that person, like you needto make change, you need to
figure this out. Because it's aproblem, they're going to get
upset with me, and they're notgoing to listen, and they're
going to do the exact oppositeof what I told them to do. So
what I do in those environmentsis if I notice someone has this

(35:32):
repeated pattern of behavior, Itell them, hey, my first thing
is to stroke their ego andvalidate what's going on, make
sure they feel okay about it,like, Hey, I noticed that your
schedule is kind of all over theplace. And sometimes it's kind
of hard to make makeappointments and stuff. And I
know you like to live by theseat of your pants, which is
awesome. But have you thoughtabout maybe having someone help

(35:55):
you out to maybe get a littlebit organized, I did it one
time. And it was it was amazing.
It took me from this person whohad things all over the place to
my my stuff together. And nowI'm at this point to where I'm
actually moving forward, andthings are going well. And so I
thought it would really help youand, and I thought it might make
sense for you to possibly jumpinto it if you're interested. So
the way I speak spoke there wasI was very non aggressive, I

(36:18):
dropped my tone, I stutter alittle bit on purpose, because I
want to come off as more of abeta in this environment, I
don't want to attack them as anaggressive alpha. And I'm going
to be suggestive. So maybe thiswould make sense. And, and, and
blah, blah, blah, and whatyou're doing like you are
awesome, I love your personalityand you as a person, but maybe
Have you ever considered this.

(36:39):
And maybe this would make sensebecause I did it and it made me
from a mess to awesome. And Ijust I thought it might be
something you might beinterested in. So I say I
thought it might be might besomething you're interested
possibly, but I never tell themto do it, I never say you should
do this, you would be interestedin this, this would be great for
you. Because now I'm tellingthem what to do, and they're not
going to do it. But if I suggestit, I planted the seed, and it'd

(37:00):
be much more receptive toactually do what I told them to
do, or what I suggested thatthey do.

So to me, that sounds a little bit on the line
of NLP. Do you interconnect yourNLP and your CBT? In your sales
process sometimes? Or am I offbase?

No, you're probably right there. And so I
think we can we don't want todemonize NLP is like a horrible
thing. But what we what I, whatI do is, if I drop that anchor,
I'm going to continuously dropthat anchor, and I'm going to
continuously I'm gonna follow upwith them, I'm going to chat
with him about it. And so I'lluse these subtle pieces, the
subtle language pieces tocontinuously bring it up until

(37:39):
they start asking me about it.
So what I want to do is plantthe seed, then I get the wheels
moving and turning in the brain,then they'll come back to me and
they'll start Hey, what were youtalking about with that with
that thing? To help me getorganized? Oh, are you open to
maybe chatting about that? Oh,yeah. And then we can start
having a deeper conversationabout it, because the first step
is allowing them to be open toit and not upsetting them in the

(37:59):
process. And the second step isbeing able to drop the anchor.
And then the third step is toget them to create and make
change. And so I think sometimeswe can use the ideas of NLP, to
be able to get the person toopen up and to be able to get
the person to essentially beavailable, then we can move into
the principles of CBT andacceptance, Commitment Therapy,
to get them to continuously makethat change and follow through

(38:22):
so they can be successful longterm.

I just think about how, you know, NLP, and
CBT can be used in amanipulative way, which is total
opposite of what you're tryingto do.

It can be horrible. I can tell you from
personal experience, I was at amastermind. And they brought a
very prominent sales trainer onon stage to sell their thing.
And he had these people come upand show them $1. And then he
had them talking about religionand God. And then he had them
talking about how God came downand told them that they should
make this purchase and was a$30,000 mastermind, these people

(38:57):
couldn't afford it. And I was mymind was blown. And at that
moment, I recognized why theytold us not to record that
thing. And I walked out, I waslike, I can't be party to this
disaster to this complete shitshow it like, this is the most
manipulative thing I've everseen in my entire life. And so,
like in our programs, now, webring people on board, and we
record their sales calls, and welisten to them. And if they
won't submit them, we justrefund them and kick them out.

(39:19):
And if we get the hint of like,I'll do anything to make a sale,
this stuff starts coming up, wehave to talk, it's like, look,
you're not here to manipulate,you're not here to do this kind
of stuff. And so I try to be alittle bit more hard on that
environment, because I don'twant to produce people who can
do that, because this stuff canbe used in a really terrible way
at the same time.

Where do you think the intersection between NLP and
CBT is like, I can see a lot ofcorrelation there. I can see,
you know, the whole idea ofasking the right questions and
chunking up and then chunkingdown to you know, get the the
prospect or the you know, theperson that that you're
counseling to kind of come tothis realization that they're,
you know, that it could be likethe, you know, being forced to

(39:59):
finish their plate at the dinnertable when they were, you know,
11 years old sort of thing?
Where do you think that the theintersection between the two
between NLP and CBT is? And into that point to that end? Like
what are the subtle differences?
Like, if if I'm using NLP in asales process? What would be the
difference between using NLP andCBT?

Yeah, that's a good question. And so I think
the big difference between NLPin the way I tried to create an
analogy surrounding this as NLPis like may early stage CBT, and
it CBT that hasn't really beentested or proven in sort of a
scientific realm. It's, it's apseudoscience at its core. And
so I think the way NLP can startthe engines for lack of a better

(40:43):
term is it can allow you tounderstand thoughts and beliefs
and how they can be reframed,and what the process of thought
and belief works and how itworks. And then you can take
that and use CBT, to askquestions to define the beliefs,
and then you CBT to continuouslydropping little anchor points to
be able to shift and, and changethat belief and then start to

(41:05):
spot the triggers. When that'swhere CBT comes into play, we
spot the triggers, we can startto learn how to work through the
triggers, we can help peoplerecognize that they exist, and
then we can use that to actuallycreate action long term. And
that's really where NLP dropsthe ball. Because NLP is about
drop the anchor, drop the bomb,that's it person's changed,
don't kick them out. But CBT islike, well, we understand now.

(41:25):
But it's not going to go away,it's going to come back. So to
recognize a trigger, let's spotthe trigger. Let's talk about
the trigger. And let's figureout why you haven't been
successful solving this. And Ithink that's why when you look
at CBT, you can help someonecreate a manageable process
within eight weeks with NLP,you'll see a lot of the gurus
talk about how they have amassive change in a day. But

(41:46):
they don't talk about the factthat that goes away two days
later. And so that's a massive,that's a huge problem. And I
think it's it's rathermanipulative in the way NLP can
be portrayed.

But I also think in any industry practices can be
used for good and bad, you know,not just mental health, CBT,
NLP, any industry practices andpart of the that profession can
be used poorly, lawyers,bankers, doctors, coaches, you
know, we face that in ourindustry where there's there is

(42:17):
very unethical coachingpractices and sales processes,
where it makes our entireindustry looks poor, and I'm
sure you face that as well. Soit's not just NLP and CBT that
we're bringing attention to,it's across all industries.

Exactly. I've been obsessed with this for a
long time. And so it's, I'm anopen book with this kind of
stuff. I'll often say thingsthat most people won't say, not
like an offensive way, but justtalk about NLP. Nobody will talk
about NLP in a way that I likewe're talking about, because
they're afraid I could care lesslike, if the NOP gurus hate me

(42:56):
and make a video about it. It'sawesome, because then it pulls
people deeper into your sphere.
And the things we say here andwhat we're saying is logical, it
makes sense. You understand themanipulation, people who have
been on sales calls have beenmanipulated to make a purchase
and people going to like NLPpractitioners have been saved
and fixed and then broken twodays later. So I think a lot of
this needs to be said, but it'snot, especially if you have a

(43:19):
good message to bring about. AndI always say like, if you're
going to say something thatoffends people have a good point
to defend it. And if you candefend it well, and you can
articulate your point across andyou don't look like just an
idiot chilling stuff, you'll beable to support yourself and
sustain because you'll buildpeople who will follow you and
back you and what you're saying.

You just do it in a nice guy way. You're like almost
like a modern day hippie Jesus.
I'm the Jackass who comes acrossvery shrewd and loud.

Yeah, I even have a man been going on. So
people are like, he's got to benice. His name's Chandler, like
friends, Walker, Texas Ranger.
Maybe he knows karate. He's upin the mountains. He wears a
flannel. He's got an eagle inhis background. He's got to be a
nice guy.

Is anyone ever truly fixed?

I don't believe so. I think everyone's a work in
progress. Human beings aredriven by emotion first, logic
second. And so I think what wecan do is learn to manage and
spot and work through triggers.
But they're never going to goaway. For example, if someone
say they were beat as a child,that's not going to go away.

(44:26):
They're gonna have mistrustissues, they're gonna have
problems making friends. And ifthose things have been
presented, and they can learnhow to spot those triggers, then
they can learn how to workthrough it when it comes about,
but it doesn't just magically goaway. Nothing ever magically
goes away. We just learn how toself manage and become
comfortable with the fact thatit exists.

Yeah, I think you nailed it there. That's that was
kind of you know, during thisconversation, that's kind of
what I had thought you know, interms of the the trigger points
and then you know, bringingpeople to this realization of
this is where the thecorrelation slash causation is
and and then this is how we fixit right? Really good points
Chandler for sure.

Chandler you have a heart for helping so many
around the world in ways thatare unconventional in a good
way. Like I said, you're hackingthe system you're calling
yourself the care hacker you'regoing against the grain trying
to teach people how to helpthemselves in a more holistic
way. How can anyone interestedin who loved this conversation

(45:24):
learn more about you?

Yeah, you can follow me on Instagram. So it
sends it toinstagram.com/Chandler_SAF. If
you want my nine step frameworkto creating compassion
conversations, just go to9step.cultureofcare.life. And if
you're interested in the work wedo in mental health and our
holistic program, you can justgo to StoneAgefuel.com and

(45:46):
you'll see all of our health andfitness focuses and be able to
communicate with us there. Andthen lastly, if you want to talk
with me on Facebook, you can goto facebook.com/ChandlerSAF and
communicate with me there. SAFif you're wondering me and Stone
Age, fuel, our original brandname, we've gone from a holistic
business to a gym to an onlineenvironment, we help with weight
loss, and then the compassionconversations is obviously our

(46:08):
sales system to where we teachyou how to sell without
manipulation, or aggressivetactics.

And you've never said that before.

Yeah right.
Once or twice. It's like aswitch that gets flipped.

Voiceover (46:23):
The lightning round.

Are you ready for the lightning round? I've never
I've never done this. So this isgoing to be my rookie time at
this.

Let's do this!

Camping or motel?

Camping.

Your favorite color?

Blue.

The last book that you read that you did that like?

Oh, it was it was a woowoo book. I can't
remember the title. Power vsForce. I couldn't listen to it.
It was awful. The narrator wasso boring.

Tell me more. No don't.

Audible versus paperback.

Audible all the way. Audible first and then
maybe move into paperback if I'mstill interested.

Do you listen to it on speed one, you have to
speed it up. Tell me you do.

Yeah, I'll listen to it on 1.5 times speed.
And then if it's a superinteresting part, I'll go back
like I lost that part. I'll goback and listen to it regular
and I get completely lost in thebook.

I love it.

What was your favorite subject in school?

Biology was always my favorite outside of
accounting because I just got togo to the weight room. Didn't
have to study accounting.

What is one thing you're willing to share
here that most people don't knowabout you?

Yeah, most people don't know the fact that
I've been doing Brazilian JiuJitsu for probably about 10
years now on and off.

That's really cool.

It's kind of cool. It's kind of fun. I don't
broadcast it very much. Butyeah, I'm a lifelong
practitioner.

Wow, many people don't know that I'm also a
practitioner of Toddkwondo. Whenyou see the T, yo better flee.

Certified killer.

Certified something.

I thought you're gonna say you're a black belt in
BS but...

Oh, that was definitely flowing there.

And that's that defining moment. What am I doing
with my life?

Voiceover (48:03):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the SUCCESS
Coaching Podcast. If you'veenjoyed this episode, please
follow or subscribe to theSUCCESS Coaching Podcast at your
favorite podcast provider. Forspecial access to past
recordings, videos of pastepisodes and more, please become
a SUCCESS Coaching PodcastCompanion at
successcoachingpodcast.com.

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Chandler Walker - AKA The Care Hacker: Creating a Culture of Care Through Wellness, Mental Health, Social Health, Sleep, Nutrition & Habits

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Chandler Walker - AKA The Care Hacker: Creating a Culture of Care Through Wellness, Mental Health, Social Health, Sleep, Nutrition & Habits