Coastal Conservation and Avian Migration at Galveston Island State Park with Kyle O’Haver

I sit down with Kyle O’Haver, Superintendent of Galveston Island State Park to discuss Galveston’s Coastal Ecology, Birding, Avian Migration, and Galveston’s balancing acre between conservation and economic expansion.

Kyle O’Haver is an avid birder, wildlife enthusiast, and has been with Texas Parks & Wildlife Department for over 16 years.

Galveston Island State Park: https://tpwd.texas.gov/state-parks/galveston-island

Watch this episode on YouTube: Coastal Conservation and Avian Migration at Galveston Island State Park with Kyle O’Haver
https://youtu.be/M5vc--aFWus

Subscribe to Galveston Unscripted on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts for more historical insights and stories from this remarkable island: https://www.galvestonunscripted.com/podcasts

Check out the podcast and audio tour that is transforming Galveston into the world's largest free museum! https://www.galvestonunscripted.com/

Support the show! Buy me a book! https://www.buymeacoffee.com/jrshaw409

Galveston Unscripted Digital Market: https://www.galvestonunscripted.com/store

Support the show

Galveston Unscripted Digital Market

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
We are a destination not just for the birds, but you
know our, our history here onthe island attracts a lot of
people from around the world.
We find a lot of peopletraveling Texas to seek that
history.
Many of them come to Galvestonbecause it's so rich in the
history of not only Texas butthe United States.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Welcome to Galveston Unscripted.
In this episode, I sit downwith Kyle O'Haver,
Superintendent of the GalvestonIsland State Park.
We discuss the park, wildlifeand ecology and, of course,
birding on the upper Texas coast, and we get into the importance
of protecting these naturalhabitats.
And luckily we have theGalveston Island State Park
right here on our island.

(00:44):
One thing I learned from Kylewhile sitting down with him is
that the Galveston Island StatePark is within the top 10 state
parks in Texas by visitorshipand revenue.
Now that is highlighting howimportant that state park is to
Galveston Island, not onlyecologically but economically.
We had a lot of fun during thisconversation and I know you
will enjoy listening.

(01:04):
Without further ado, let's hopright into this episode with
Kyle O'Haver, Superintendent ofthe Galveston Island State Park.
Welcome to Galveston Unscripted.
Well, Kyle, thank you so muchfor joining me on Galveston
Unscripted today.
I really appreciate you makingthe trek all the way from the
West End To come down here, allthe way to the East End.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Yeah, a lot of West Enders will say this East End is
too far away, so we kind ofkeep to that side a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah, if we have to drive past 61st Street going
that way.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
Yeah, it's pretty far , it's a day.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
You might as well be driving to Houston, right.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
Well, yeah, so you are the Superintendent of the
Galveston Island State Park.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
Yeah, day number four .

Speaker 2 (01:47):
Oh man, so you're fresh.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yep, yep, absolutely.
I was Assistant Superintendentfor six years and have been very
lucky given the opportunity tonow lead the park as the
Superintendent.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
That's awesome.
Can you tell us a little bitabout your background before you
arrived here in Galveston, sure?

Speaker 1 (02:05):
I was born and raised in Missouri.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
That's awesome.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
You know I'm a show me state boy, so been in Texas
for 16 years.
My first full-time job out ofcollege was with Texas Parks and
Wildlife.
Down in the Rio Grande Valley Iwent to school for park
recreation and tourismmanagement, so my literal focus
whenever I was in college is togo and manage in run parks.

(02:32):
That was my goal and my dreamand started out down in the Rio
Grande Valley at Astero-YonoGrande State Park and World
Burding Center.
And that's where my passion andhobby for birding kind of was
forced upon you.
You can't be down there at aWorld Burding Center site and

(02:53):
not be just fully inundated withbirders from around the world.
You pick up a bird book andlook at the guides that are in
there, the people that arewriting them.
They were down there everysingle year.
So I got exposed to someamazing opportunities to get to
meet people and then met my wifedown there.
I had a couple of wonderfulchildren and was in the Valley

(03:17):
for about six years.
Moved to West Texas to a smallpark called Lake Colorado City
State Park and wassuperintendent there for about
five years.
And then, right beforeHurricane Harvey hit the week of
Hurricane Harvey, I was movingto Galveston for my assistant
job, got everything unloaded andinto the house and the staff

(03:42):
was saying are you watching theweather?
And we're like, no, what'sgoing on.

Speaker 3 (03:46):
We have no idea.
We weren't paying attention.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
We were focused on moving and they were like well,
in about three days you're goingto have a hurricane hit us, so
you need to figure out whatwe're doing.
And it wasn't our firsthurricane.
We were in the Rio GrandeValley during Hurricane Dolly so
, but it was, you know, within aweek of being in a new place.
So we were like we're not sure,we're not ready for this.

(04:09):
So we went up to some family inAustin and actually it probably
had more road closure, somepower outages and flooding in
the Austin area than we wouldhave if we had to stay right
here on the island.
So I learned that pretty,pretty quick is, you know,
there's there's definitely someneed to seek refuge sometimes,

(04:32):
but we've got a pretty goodplace even there on the West End
for for storms that are thatare fairly manageable there
there is a it's an okay thing tostay here in our house, stayed
here through Nicholas, which wasa pretty big tropical storm, I
think it even maybe hithurricane.
So have rode one out here onthe island before and we're

(04:58):
we're used to it a little bitnow.
So it's been a been a prettyamazing journey.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
With Harvey.
I know, obviously thefloodwaters in Houston were
horrendous, but you know, hereon the island when I've been
here for other hurricanes andtropical storms, like the street
flooding was just outrageous.
But for whatever reason, harveydidn't seem to impact Galveston
as much Was the state parkaffected by Harvey at all.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
So there there was some, you know, some general
wind damage of blowing a fewthings around any major storms
like that tropical stormhurricane.
We were going to bring somesome wind damage, you know,
losing a few shingles, some treelimbs blown around.
So it took us about four orfive days to get stuff cleaned

(05:44):
up, but major damage it wasn't.
It wasn't that bad.
The water did not.
The water did not sustain inthe park and build up, you know,
from from Ike.
The actual storm surge is whatwas so bad.
The storm surge of Harvey waswas nowhere near that.

(06:05):
It was just the the torrentialdownpour, and the good thing
about living on an island is youcan give us lots and lots of
rain, and it's going to go tothe gulf or it's going to go to
the bay.
We'll flood but we're not goingto be holding water because it's
going to go somewhere else whenit hits a certain peak.
So that wasn't nearly as badand and actually the cleanup

(06:29):
after Harvey didn't have nearlyas much rain as the amount of
water that tropical stormNicholas put into our park.
It actually flooded us tolevels that the park hadn't seen
since Hurricane Ike.
Oh my gosh.
You know Ike was definitely wayworse, but there was water in
sections of the park that havenot gone underwater since Ike

(06:53):
and it had to do with how thatstorm system came in and put a
lot of pressure on the bay andthe bay really rose up and those
those water levels really,really came up in the park and
it was.
It was impressive to see thatmuch water.
I was in my house, whichoverlooks some of the campsites,
you know, got a pretty highsubfloor on the house.

(07:14):
Water about six, eight inchesunderneath the house and we were
watching birds like cormorantsswim down the road and dive,
because there was three or fourfoot of water on the road.
They were diving, looking forfish where we were just driving
two or three days before.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:31):
There's so much water in the park, so it was really
that was really uniqueopportunity to see that.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
Man, well, you know, going out to that, that area,
the state park area or anywhereon the West end, it really
highlights what the island wouldhave been like prior to the
grade raising.
The elevation was very, verylow.
Do you happen to know theelevation or, I guess, average
elevation, of the state park?

Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah, that's one of the things we kind of look at.
So the main ridge that runsthrough the park ridge, you say
just in elevation terms,obviously you go to the beach on
the golf side and that's zerobecause that is sea level.
Right there you get to themiddle of the park where our
nature center is kind of thespine of the island and it's

(08:11):
somewhere in the eight to 12foot or so of elevation I think
it's a little closer to likeeight or nine and then you know
tapering off on the bay side toget back to sea level because
you know we're tapering off onthat side.
So it's not a tremendous amountin general ground elevation but
it only takes a few inches ofelevation to push water one

(08:34):
direction or another.
So rising eight feet comingacross the middle of there.
The water as long as I've beenthere and the storms I've seen,
the water's never come close tothe middle of the nature center
and stuff, like it did with Ikewhenever the wave came across
the island.
But yeah, that middle section ishigh enough that everything

(08:58):
kind of pushes to it and you'llsee all the wildlife and animals
really congregate to the middle, which they're used to doing,
escaping water, going to higherground, and it's that middle
spine, running down through apark that seeks a lot of refuge
of creatures.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
So on the topic of hurricanes and, I guess,
inundation from the bay side,that saltwater inundation coming
up from the bay during ahurricane, how does that affect
the I guess the bay side ecology?

Speaker 1 (09:25):
Sure, that's a great question.
A lot of the plants, as you canimagine, that are right there
near it are constantly gettinghigh tides, getting saltwater,
so there is a lot of the grassesand plants that are used to
salty environments.
The soil is very alkali incertain areas.

(09:48):
As the water starts to approachthe middle, it will potentially
kill some plants or make plantsgo dormant.
You know the grasses in ourcampgrounds, in our yards that
are mowed a lot of times.
They will absolutely go dormantor some of the grasses will die
out.
It'll take a few months beforeyou start seeing green again.

(10:09):
But the native plants they knowhow to hold on.
They know how to go dormant fora bit.
They're okay with getting alittle bit of saltwater
inundation because that's howthey've developed.
They've seen a lot worse thanany of us have that are alive
today on this island in terms oftheir time on the island.
So they know how to deal withthat.

(10:30):
So water coming in it'll createsome effect.
The biggest effect on the plantlife that I've seen there has
actually been our freezes thelast couple of years that we've
had.
Oh yes, and it has laid backsome of those plants for quite a
while to get them to come back,because cold is a different
aspect than salt to them.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
That's super interesting.
Yeah, looking at it from afreeze perspective because it
only happens once every 15, 20years maybe, but we had a couple
back to back in the last fewyears and there's sections of
the salt grasses, marshes andstuff like that that really get
impacted and they're still brown.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
They're trying to green up even from a year or so
ago.
There's still life there, butthey're definitely not as thick
and lush because a lot of themfroze out on top and they're
starting to come back a littlebit better.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
So of course I can ask you the basic question what
are some of the wildlife outthere?
But what are some wildlife outin the state park that surprises
people or visitors to the park?
They're like oh, I didn'trealize you had those out.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
You know, still, with everybody on the island talking
about canids, like we've talkedabout the coyotes we were
discussing earlier, people arestill pretty shocked when they
see them.
Visitors from out of the area.
They will misidentify them invery interesting ways.

(12:01):
Everything from deer and mooseand wolves and mountain lions
and things, and everything thatwe can find that they've seen
has usually been a coyote on thelarge side of it.
So that is usually surprisingto people.
When they do get to see them inthe park they're pretty shy, so

(12:24):
it's a special situationwhenever you do get to run into
one.
A little bit more of what theysee.
Right now the swamp rabbits arecoming out.
They're along the sides of theroad.
You know a little cottontaillooking rabbits.
Armadillos are starting to makea scene and those are quite
entertaining to watch.
On the sides of the roadrooting for stuff.

(12:45):
You'll see raccoons, maybe apossum or two in the area.
But birds are definitely myfavorite thing in the park
because it's my biggest hobby.
But that is the area thatsurprises me and a lot of folks
that I know, even though we knowit's coming.

(13:06):
It's always that excitement offinding the rare or odd bird or
the unusual species that younever know what you're going to.
Go out there any day and see.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
I know we started, we talked about this before we got
started, but the peopletraveling to Galveston to come
see these birds, these migratorybirds that come through our
island, I mean, are there peoplecoming from all over the world?

Speaker 1 (13:30):
Literally all over the world.
We we are a destination notjust for the birds, but you know
our history here on the islandattracts a lot of people from
around the world.
We find a lot of peopletraveling Texas to seek that
history.
Many of them come to Galvestonbecause it's so rich in the

(13:53):
history of not only Texas butthe United States.
So we see that.
But in birders in particular,the upper Texas coast is very
legendary.
High Island is very legendaryfor birding.
The Rio Grande Valley, where Iwas at, boasts some of the
largest number of species percounty that there is in the

(14:14):
United States.
A lot of times Texas is at thevery top of birding in the US.
So these areas are where majormigratory pathways come for
birds and you come here duringthe springtime and you're going
to see amazing numbers of birdscome over when the conditions

(14:36):
are just right and they're notjust shooting over the top of
our of our heads.
At times, if the windconditions are in their favor,
they can fly a little farther.
So in spring, whenever they'rereturning north, they may shoot
over the island a bit more.
But if you're here in yourbirding you will get to see some

(14:57):
things.
What we say a lot, drop in inthe afternoon, mid mornings and
afternoons because they'releaving the Yucatan, they're
leaving Central and SouthAmerica and that flight
especially if they're trans-golfmigrants flying right over the
water, they're going to seekrefuge at the closest place that
they can if there's any wind orany precipitation over the golf

(15:21):
.
You know, as explained to mewhenever I was learning, this is
a lot of the warblers, thesmall warbler species people
really enjoy.
They're about the size of aketchup packet.
So, if you create something likethe size of a ketchup packet
that has a little bit of anability to soak up water like a
sponge, and you weigh that thingbefore and then you put a few

(15:46):
drops of water on it, thepercentage of weight that you
gain so much quickly, you knowit's a lot.
So you think about that.
A little bird flying from theYucatan and it hits.
It hits rain All of a sudden.
All of its resources that itput into flying, it now has 10
to 20% more body weight than ithad before.

(16:06):
They are absolutely drained ofenergy and they try and hit the
first place that they can.
Galveston Island is a really bigstopover spot for them.
Very important that we're outhere.
High Island is really famousfor it.
It's also, you know, it is araised dome in the land, so

(16:30):
really far off.
If you're a bird flying wayhigh up over the water on the
horizon, you'll see High Islanda little bit easier sometimes.
So there is a really bigconcentration that will show up
there and there's a lot of treesover there.
So birds kind of do what'scalled a fallout.
If the conditions are right,where everything that's

(16:50):
migrating is so tired, they haveto drop out the first place we
get to see it here on the islandA couple of springs ago was
pretty amazing on the island.
We say amazing whenever you lookinto the ecology of it.
Sometimes it's a littledifficult to stomach that it
really is birds trying withevery fiber in their being that

(17:14):
they have left to make it toland.
The reality is not all birds dothat.
That's why they're so importantto save their breeding habitats
and things and have thesestopover points, because it's
the entire journey that'simportant.
It's not just the beginning andthe end spot for them.
So the better we do at managingour resources like the state

(17:35):
park, having wonderful placeslike High Island.
Lafitte's Cove is a place thatI bird a lot in the spring
because that big, beautifulcanopy at Lafitte's Cove is a
wonderful place to go.
There's a number of parks intown.
You can see me at Kempner quiteoften because it's got big,
beautiful old growth trees inthat neighborhood.

(17:55):
I'm walking around theneighborhood looking for birds
in the trees.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
Yellow crown night herons.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, cedar Lawn area is really interesting place for
that.
I've got some friends that areover in that area.
A couple of bird friends and I.
We were walking theneighborhood because we'd heard
that was good for that.
It's so fun to see the numberof people that would walk out of
their house and at first you'relike are they going to get mad?

(18:22):
We're birding in theirneighborhood with a binoculars
or the paranoid.
No, they all wanted us to seetheir yellow crown night herons
Every one of them.
There was five or six differentpeople that wanted us to see
the nest in their yard and Iabsolutely love that because
they are very proud of that bird, even though it's a little
stinky whenever those nests getthere they can be a little loud,

(18:45):
but to see a communityabsolutely come out and be proud
that hey, there's somebody withbinoculars, they need to see my
bird in my yard.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
It's like a migratory pet.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
Yes, yeah, I love that so much that they were
proud of that situation in theircommunity.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
So those listening who don't know what a yellow
crown night heron is, they'repretty large birds.
And when they make a nest,usually in Galveston.
They make them in oak trees andhigh up in oak trees and when
you walk under their nest yousee tons of crab claws and
bodies of crabs and things likethat.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
They eat a lot of crayfish in the area.
Their nest building ability.
To most people, whenever youthink of a nest, you think of
something like a robin nest,because that's you know,
whenever you type in nest or yousee it on cartoons, it's this
perfect little bowl shape ofwoven small fibers.
Well, these birds will findbranches that are pretty close

(19:41):
together and they will just layand lay and lay and stack and
stack and stack sticks on there,and it doesn't look that great.
It doesn't look like yourtypical nest.
It's more of a platform is whatthey're building, and you know
they're raising babies there andthere's a lot of waste and
there's a lot of byproduct oftheir food and stuff that will

(20:02):
drop down, and it isn't pleasantthe smell from fish eating.
You know crayfish eatingcreatures, though, but they are
absolutely wild.
The babies look like Muppets.
They really do.
They don't even look of thisworld as their babies and
growing up.
But yeah, it's a heron species,so it's a long legged wading

(20:26):
bird.
They like to be in shallows andmarshes searching for crabs and
crayfish in the freshwater,ditches and things like that.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
So, speaking of migratory patterns, I know every
bird species probably has adifferent migratory pattern.
They're either coming from upnorth, from somewhere different
than another species, or goingsouth, to Mexico or central and
South America.
What is one of the birds withthe furthest migratory path?
Oh very interesting.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
And one thing that I always point out and try and
teach people is, especially whenyou're here on the coast and
they say well, what do you mean?
This bird migrates.
It's always here.
Whenever you're thinking ofmigration, it's traveling from
resources to resources fordifferent reasons.
We are at the top of somethings southern migration and we

(21:18):
are at the bottom of somethings northern migration.
So sometimes there are speciesthat are absolutely migratory,
that most people say they're notmigratory.
Those birds are always here.
Well, we're in an area that theyhave enough resources that some
may never leave and they may beresidential, but you will, if

(21:39):
you really pay attention, see amigration.
You'll see a day where you'reused to seeing your mockingbird
that's here.
Well, mockingbirds will kind ofregionally shift and migrate
and pass through areas.
So someday you walk out thereand there is 15 mockingbirds in
a tree that only had one in itthe day before and then there's

(22:00):
no more the next day.
Well, that could be birdspassing through.
You know, our herons and egretsdo that.
Even our brown pelicans willshift and migrate along the
coast, but we have them here allthe time.
Sometimes you see huge numbersall pulled up and they're just
moving to find the resourcesthey need.
Some of them that go farther inbirds up north mean that they

(22:24):
have to travel farther south tofind those resources.
At times Some of the longestmigrants are actually shorebirds
, you know plovers and knots,and then there's some of those
furloughs, things that arelooking for coastal ecosystems.
But they'll go up and they'llbreed up in the tundra and then

(22:48):
they may be going all the way asfar as the tip of South America
sometimes.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (22:54):
Some of those shorebirds are unbelievable
migrating birds.

Speaker 2 (22:59):
I had no idea.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
Yeah, they literally travel from the top of North
America to the bottom of SouthAmerica for a trip.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
Oh, and then you can see them walking on the beach
here in Galveston.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
You can see them and they may just need to stop over.
You know, you see knots on thebeach or you see godwits or
something that are stopping overand you don't know where
they've gone or how far they'retruly going to go before the end
of their journey.
But it could be, you know,thousands and thousands of miles
, not just North America, butall the way through Central

(23:31):
America to South America.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
Wow, what are some of the rarest.
You seem like we're on your,your this is your wheelhouse
right here.

Speaker 1 (23:37):
Oh, this is.
You know, that's what I said,so I like this.
The thing I love talking aboutthe most, this is great, this is
great.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
So what are some of the rarest birds we can see in
Galveston Sure?

Speaker 1 (23:49):
And that rarity, too, is something that you have to
kind of understand.
There's rarity in differentmeanings, meaning something like
a whooping crane.
That's rare because in theentire world there is not a very
big population left.
You know you can go down toPort Aransas and see a great

(24:11):
number of them that still exist.
Go to Goose Island State Parkover to Big Tree.
You can see 20 of them there.
Sometimes there's a one or twothat maybe in the county High
Island gets them a little bitmore often.
Galveston Island isn't a greatplace for a whooping crane, but
if you're talking about rarityin in the species with a number,

(24:32):
that is an extremely rare bird.
And that's something that youshould see in your lifetime
because even with all theefforts we do, something could
happen and they could.
They could disappear.
Another form of rarity issomething that shows up that may
have a huge populationsomewhere else, but it's in a
very odd place, so that makes arare bird of itself, even though

(24:54):
it has a population that's waybigger than a whooping crane.
We may have seen a whoopingcrane in the area and never seen
this species before, so that'san interesting situation in
rarity.
One of the rarest birds thatI've ever seen in my life down
in the Rio Grande Valley when Iwas first starting out birding,

(25:18):
I remember the first big, megarare bird that I've seen was
called a Jabiru and it isactually the heaviest flying
bird that could ever visit thisarea.
It's the height pretty close toSand Hill Crane or so, but it's
a very big, dense bird and itcomes up out of South America,

(25:38):
usually comes up wheneverthere's a big hurricane or storm
that comes through, and thatwas right around the time of
Dolly down in South Texas.
There's actually been one overin the High Island area I'm
wanting to say early 2000s whenwas over there but that was rare
because there had only everbeen a couple of them seen and

(26:00):
there hadn't been one seen inalmost a decade whenever I'd
seen it.
So that was pretty spectacularto go see a bird that stood up
there like the size of a humanout in this field.
That came from South America.

Speaker 2 (26:13):
It's that big.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
Oh, it's big.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (26:16):
They're pretty impressive.
They look like a small personwalking out in a field.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
Oh my gosh like an e-boo or something.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
Yeah, a little bit smaller than those but they fly
and they're like a really bigheron is what they are, really
dense-bodied.
So that was a really neatexperience.
I got to see many super, megarare birds down in the valley
First time.
Us records and things that werecoming across that now there's

(26:44):
four or five species that havebeen found in, four or five
individuals that may have beenfound in the US by now Up here
in the upper Texas coast notexactly a claim to fame, but I
guess in the birding worldaround here my most notable bird
that I discovered was a whitecrowned pigeon which most people

(27:09):
would be like okay, you foundanother pigeon up here.
I'm wanting to say it was onlythe fifth record in Texas, or so
.
It come out of the Bahamas andit flew up and it was in the
fall and to remember it was notlong after a tropical storm

(27:33):
event I don't remember which oneit was, but the area over by
Lafites Cove where all thepeacocks are.
I was just driving down thatroad in the afternoon enjoying
the peacocks, because I stillenjoy looking at.
Even though they're not wildand they're non-native species,

(27:54):
they're still really beautiful.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
They're a fun bird.

Speaker 1 (27:57):
Birds are all amazing to me.
Well, I was driving down thatroad and I noticed there's
usually always a bunch of doveson the power line up there, and
one of them just looked reallybig to me and so I got my scope
out and looked at it and I seenthis white blaze go right up its
forehead.
I've never seen one before inmy life.
I'd never studied it very, veryhard, but because of my

(28:20):
experience in birding andknowing what should be in this
area, instantly knew this birdshould not be in the area.
It looks like a pigeon to a lotof normal folks, but we don't
have one that has quite thathead shape or has that white
blaze on top of its head and Iinstantly knew, without even
looking in a book, just becauseof my exposure of reading them

(28:42):
and stuff, this was a whitecrown pigeon and it brought a
lot of locals very, very quicklyout there to look for it.
They didn't see it thatafternoon, they seen it one more
time the next day but, like Isaid, there'd only been like
maybe five or so seen beforethat and I just went over there
to look at some peacocks andfound that crazy bird on the

(29:02):
power line.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
Oh my gosh, do you carry a camera with you every
now and then?

Speaker 1 (29:06):
I used to carry a camera a lot, but now the
technology, the way it is, ourphones.
I'm not a photographer, I am adocumenter.
So I don't have to have a wallhanging beautiful picture, I
just want to show somebody thatI've seen it or help document it
for science.
So my cell phone I actually useit for what's called

(29:28):
digi-binning and digiscoping.
So I will use the recordingcapability and the magnification
on my phone to go through mybinoculars or through my scope,
to use that extra magnificationand I can take pictures farther
away not with the same claritybut with enough to identify it
more than most people can withtheir cameras and just getting

(29:51):
really good at that quickdocumentation.
So that I don't have to carryanother piece of equipment.
I've already got my binoculars,I've already got my phone.
I don't want to carry anotherbig camera into the field.

Speaker 2 (30:03):
Yeah, that's using your resources right there and
that's a fun little last minutething you figure out on the fly.
It's like, oh wait, I can dothis Just put your camera over
it.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
It takes a little skill, but there's a lot of
really cool technology now withcameras that match up with it.

Speaker 2 (30:16):
well, so last time I was at the park went out with my
family, we were walking aroundand there's a big statue out
there, right before you walkacross one of the little bridges
out there on the bay side.
Could you tell us a little bitabout that statue and what that
means?
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
So that statue is.
It's part of the Lost BirdProject artist Todd McGrane.
He creates these memorials.
It's tough to define it.
I don't want to necessarilycall it memorial.
It's a remembrance and it's notjust to remember what we had

(30:54):
but it's to think forward atwhat we don't want to lose.
And he created the EskimoCurlew statue that's at our park
.
He has that Lost Bird Projectwhich I encourage everybody to
look up, and he works withcommunities and the birding
communities and creates a statueof a bird that is presumably

(31:16):
lost, extinct, hasn't been seenin a very long time For all
intensive purposes, is no longerexisting for some reason or
another.
And he will create thesestatues and place them as close
to the last known locations ofone of the sightings of the bird
so that when people go to thatarea they can learn what we have

(31:40):
lost.
And hopefully that'll inspireyou to think about that in a way
into what we need to protect,moving forward.
And we were extremely excited toget the opportunity to bring
that to the park.
Galveston Island Nature Tourismis the one that really was

(32:01):
working with Todd on bringingthat to Galveston Island and
then, in the search for theright location for that, they
brought him out to the statepark as a potential site.
But the many supporters andbenefactors and GINTC is what
got that for our community.
When Todd came out to our site,the things he was looking for

(32:26):
to place it was a place that onewas close to, a location that
the bird was last documented, aplace that the public could view
it but would be in an area thatcould be kind of protected in
terms of education and also tomake sure that nobody tries to

(32:48):
take the statue away.
So he was very excited that thepark was interested in this
opportunity.
There was a lot of great placeson the island that were looking
into it.
But one of the things that Ithink clinched it there's a book
by Victor Manuel who is a veryprominent ornithologist and bird
guide.
In his book One More Warbler,the bird of his life was the

(33:13):
Eskimo Curlew and there was agroup of people in the late 60s
that they found the bird andhadn't been seen in many years
and they documented it.
And in his book it's describedas west of 13 Mile Road and
talking to him on a cattle ranchand back then in the mid to

(33:34):
late 60s when he would have beenin the area.
Our state park was a cattleranch at that time and 13 Mile
Road is our border.
So, in his best recollectionand talking to Victor, somewhere
between possibly, galveston andstate park over to Jamaica
Beach, was the field that theywere in whenever they documented

(33:57):
this bird as one of the lasttimes it was ever seen.
It wasn't the very last time,but of one of the last times it
was seen.
And that was another reason why, because we could tell the
story of being a cattle farm,potentially being one of those
last places and then talkingabout it from our stewardship
perspective of the things thatwe need to do to protect this.

(34:21):
Our state park is an extremelyvaluable resource To developers.
It's an extremely valuablepiece of land.
You know there could be manyhomes, there could be many
things put on that, but thevalue is way, way greater for
our community and for the naturecommunity for us to preserve it
like it is, for us to make surethere's a place people can come

(34:44):
and camp and make thatconnection to nature, but also
so we can steward land.
There's a bird out there rightnow that there's some research
going on, called the black rail.
It's one of my favorite birdsof the park.
It's a really difficult bird tosee.
It is a very small, think likebaby chicken, solid black.

(35:05):
It loves to run through thegrasses on the edge of the marsh
, doesn't like deep water.
It doesn't like tall, tallgrass fields where there's no
water.
It has to have a very specifichabitat and it loves the Gulf
Coast.
The eastern species, the easternsubspecies of the black rail is
something that is of concernand there's a lot of research

(35:25):
going on and Texas A&M andpartnership with Texas Parks and
Wildlife is doing someunbelievable cutting-edge
research and we're one of thesites that they're doing it at.
The researchers are actually atthe park today right now.
They come every few weeks forthe last couple years and what
they're doing is they're goingout and doing some approved

(35:51):
Documentation of the birds onsite and then the cutting-edge
technology that we have withthermal imaging and drones.
They are learning to identifythat bird by its heat signature
at the right time of day and theright time of night so that we
can get better populationstudies on those birds.
Wow, unbelievable that we areable to use something like that

(36:15):
and you know it's all through anapproved process.
It's very scientific, set upthrough A&M, but we, along with
some other sites along the coast, are sites that they are using
this to research to find out ifthis is now going to be an
Acceptable way for us to go inand not just do what's called a
presence absence.

(36:36):
Yes, there's black rails here,because I hear them.
Well, that's important to know,but it's really important to
know the density.
Do I have two black rails here?
Do I have 30 breeding pairs?
Because the difference in howwe protect it very much demands
that we know that and we may beable to, with some of this new
research, be able to fly a droneat a very specific time in a

(36:58):
very approved way and Identifythem by their heat signatures in
grass, where researchers cannotwithout being disturbing in
other manners of doing it.
So it's very fantastic stuff.
That's amazing that you candifferentiate the type of bird
based on his heat signature andsize and things like that size
shape where it's at what it'sdoing, and they can Identify it

(37:20):
down to species in a lot ofcases.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
Wow, I wonder how long this type of technology has
existed or if this is brand new.

Speaker 1 (37:28):
I don't know if there are other studies that have
been completely finished onUsing it for birds.
I mean, you know we've beenusing it.
Police have been using it forsearching for people, for a long
time.
But exactly this application tomy understanding for trying to

(37:50):
identify the species of rail.
This is, if this isn't thefirst one, it's one of the very
first ones to attempt to usethese methods to help locate
that in these areas and it'sit's important.
One of the things that we'regonna do in carrying on that
research when she's done, is totry to continue finding when

(38:12):
these birds are in our park,because it's fire is a very
important management tool forour resource.
It's a very important and we'reseeing Devastation that fire
can do in North Texas right now.
Fire management and prescribedfires is something that we use
at the park, but we don't wantto approach that in a way that
we know is detrimental to one ofthe most Threatened species in

(38:36):
a park.
So if we identify where they are, we can approach fire towards
them in a manner that'll letthem Escape or not put fire in
that area for a certain amountof times and things, and it's it
prescribed fires exactly whatit is.
There's a group that comes out,studies the area the conditions

(38:58):
have to be perfect wind,humidity all of that before we
will approach the fire.
And then, in using using theproper techniques, we enhance
the land, we enhance habitat bymaking sure it doesn't get too
thick, by making sure Woodydebris doesn't come up and grow.
This island shouldn't havemassive forests, should have

(39:20):
small clumps of trees and lotsand lots of coastal prairie.
So this information that wefind out on the black rail helps
us make sure that what we dowith our fire management is
better and safer for Manyspecies, but in particular that
one.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
So these prescribed burns, these?
This goes back to the coastalprairie Preservation that you
guys are are really, reallyheavy into now.
So what are some threats tocoastal prayer, the coastal
prairies that we have here inGalveston?
I know, I think coastalprairies are one of the most
endangered Types.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
Yeah, less than three percent left of that habitat,
and it's not just saying that onthe island we're talking.
In the United States there'sless than three percent of the
original coastal prairie.
Prairies in general are justone of the most endangered
things, and the reason is isbecause we're talking about vast
open land and as a society weusually see that as an

(40:15):
opportunity to Turn it intoagriculture or turn it into
communities.
So we take all that grasslandout and we we do something else
with it and we are realizing alot of doing that is been
extremely, extremely Terriblefor a lot of species plants,

(40:38):
animals.
It's a vital, vital ecosystemfor us.
So at the park we do a lot ofmanagement on that and education
on that.
The the biggest threats to it,without a doubt, is ourselves in
developing places and notsetting aside some of that land.
It is very easy for us to takethis whole island and just put

(41:01):
another place, put another house, put another something there,
because that is, without a doubt, much more lucrative.
But if we look beyond themonetary value of that land just
being a dollar figure and lookat it as a benefit to to us, to
learn to connect, to have, havethese wild things that we love.

(41:25):
That's whenever we see it's not.
It's not just the dollar figurethere.
So development is, without adoubt, anywhere along the coast.
Everybody wants to live on thecoast, so we're losing coastal
prairies.
The other thing that is is verydetrimental to them is invasive
species Getting in things thatare non native grasses and stuff

(41:49):
into our coastal prairies andthen, if we don't have proper
management of Controlled burns,of removing invasive species,
things like that, it will turnover into a field of plants that
are that are not meant to bethere.
They don't hold up in storms aswell.
One of the one of the thingsthat actually shocks people is

(42:10):
whenever you learn what the rootsystem looks like of a prairie.
If you've ever been to one ofthose displays, they'll show you
what your yard grass looks likeand it has a root system of a
few inches, and then they'llshow you what a clump of coastal
coastal prairie, like bluestems or things like that, and
sometimes it's eight to twelvefoot of a system.
That is literally what holdsthe island together in the

(42:32):
middle.
If we lost all of our rootsystems that were that deep, if
there weren't this stuff around,it would be really easy to just
blow all the sand off the topof this island.
We already shift, we alreadymove.
That's part of life on theisland.
But we would have been gonelong ago if all of our prairie
and all of the things holding ittogether are gone.

(42:54):
It's pretty amazing what itdoes for us.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
Man, that is.
It's fascinating.
It's fascinating, it's so.
It's so nice to have the statepark to go to and actually enjoy
today, but there's also aneconomic benefit to having a
park like the state park and itis a pretty large park.
Of course you have the beachside and the bay side.
But just on what we've beendiscussing, just the birding you
think about how many peoplecome to the island to bird from

(43:21):
around the world.
Yeah, that has a major economicbenefit to Galveston Island and
this region.
Absolutely yeah, and we've got.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
You know there's a lot of great partners in the
area that have set aside thisbeautiful habitat that we have
that you can go see.
You know the the parks boardCity parks set aside Wonderful
places to see these birds.
Artists boat has great places.
Galveston Bay Foundation, youknow Audubon has a couple places

(43:49):
on the island.
There is a lot of greatorganizations that are all doing
doing some of the same amazingwork of preserving and
interpreting and helping peopleconnect to it.
Birding is definitely somethingthat draws people to the area,
but the the biggest reason thatpeople come to our state park is

(44:10):
to camp and go to that beach.
You know they they do it allalong Sea wall, all along the
whole island.
They really like our parkbecause we've got nice bathrooms
and rinse off showers so thatthat helps us out.
But we we are Newly, we're nota brand new park.

(44:30):
You know 1975, reallyinteresting connection that I
didn't learn until a few yearsago is the park's actual opening
day was Valentine's Day on 1975, and that's my birthday, so
it's kind of like it's meant tobe a feel that you know the
birthday of the park and me getto celebrate at the same time.

(44:52):
But the park is new because wejust went through that major
remodel and it feels like abrand new park.
It doesn't feel like a parkthat sat here for 75 years but
it has, I mean, since 1975, justabout 50 years but it has those
connections in the communityand people coming back that let

(45:13):
you know it's been here for awhile.
That remodel was one of thehighlights of my career.
I've always wanted to build apark and I was here at the time
to get to be a part of influenceon how this park was shaped.
Very, very special moment in mycareer to do that.
And now that we're fully openwe're into our complete full

(45:38):
second year of being wide openfor visitation.
We're in the top 10 out of, youknow, 80 plus state parks in
Texas.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
Really and we're climbing.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
Galveston before IKHIT was regularly in the top
five of state parks invisitation and revenue and I
mean you know we're talking upthere competing with Brazos,
bend and Huntsville and PaloDuro and Garner and parks like
that that are up on the top ofthis.

(46:11):
And Galveston is already backwithin its first couple of years
to be up in the top of thatlist again.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
Wow, I had no idea.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
People love, love, love to come and visit here.
It's hard to book a campsite,right?
now, if you want water andelectricity.
You know our reservation windowopens six months out and people
are booking it six months outsometimes to get into our park.
So it's pretty spectacular.
So it is a huge economicbenefit.

(46:42):
There's great parks.
You know where our community isgetting ready to do some great
stuff out at East Beach.
Stewart Beach just got somenice new things and I think
they're gonna get a new buildinghere in the near future.
There's wonderful parks but noneof them are quite like
Galveston Island State Parkbecause we're a little more

(47:03):
nature specific Come and see thebeach, things like that.
But then we have a little bitmore to offer and that's not for
everybody, but we do inviteeverybody.
We want everyone to come outand see this park because my job
and all the staff's job is here, because people care about this

(47:24):
park and we really want toinvite every single person,
especially on this island.
But everybody in the wholeworld we'd love to come out and
see.
That'd be great.
It'd be great for revenue andvisitation.
But one of the things that Ilearned whenever I was studying
this in college is you are morelikely to go meet somebody from

(47:48):
another country by standing inthat park than you are finding
the neighbor to that park,because people that are in this
community are less likely tovisit their own state park.
They're more likely to gosomeplace else.
But we really encourage you tocome out.
One of the first camping tripsfor a lot of people is in their
backyard and we love that and wesay you should do that Camp in

(48:11):
your backyard first, camp inyour closest state park second.
That's where it should be at.
So as you're learning thoseexperiences, let us be a part of
that journey.
Before you go camping in BigBen, why don't you try your
camping gear out here?
Before you go up to Cap Rock orPalo Duro, try it right here in
your park and your backyard.

(48:31):
So that's perfect.
Love to see everybody fromGalveston say that they know
what their state park looks like.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
I love that.
I love that.
That's really good.
I really like that.
So the park was established in1975 here in Galveston.
What is the process of startinga state park Like?
If you wanted to start a statepark today anywhere in the state
, how does that process look?
Give?

Speaker 1 (48:52):
me some land and money and I'll get you on your
way.
You know it comes about lots ofdifferent ways.
There's lots of differentpossibilities to make a park,
but what it comes down to ishaving a way to protect and
preserve that land.
Sometimes it's leases that wehave Some of our parks are
leased.
Sometimes there is donated land, sometimes it's purchased land.

(49:15):
There's lots of different ways.
Fortunately for me, I'm just asuperintendent and I don't have
to make those big decisions.
I've got some wonderful bossesthat do amazing stuff with
making decisions on where thenext parks are going to be.
But if there was a giant pieceof land out there that somebody

(49:37):
said there should be a statepark, we'll reach out to parks
and we'll definitely look intoit.
And then it comes to be bysetting it aside, doing
assessments, let's find out whatthe true value?
Did it have?
Historical significance?
Does it have something as rareas a coastal prairie on it to
preserve and protect?
So we study it for a very longtime and find out what it is

(50:00):
we're gonna highlight in thatpark.
You don't just grab that landand say, here's where the
campsites are gonna be, let'sput a lake over here.
You got to look at that landand see what we're able to do
with it and make sure that weare highlighting the things that
need to be highlighted for thereasons it needs to be there.
And then it takes a whilebecause it's not putting up a

(50:24):
shed in your backyard.
You're building something forthe public that is going to be
viewed by hundreds of thousandsof people a year and you need to
make sure the facilities andthe roads and things are there.
If anybody wants to see whatthat process is like, I highly
encourage you to get on Facebookand follow Palo Pinto Mountain.

(50:44):
It's going to be our newestopen state park.
It's going to be open very soonand they're showing right now
what it's like to build a parkheadquarters and they're showing
right now what it's like topush new roads into a state park
.
Follow that page and see whatPalo Pinto was.
You look back in their photosand what it is now.

(51:05):
I got to visit that site beforethey started building on it.
It's pretty spectacular.
It's going to be a really neatpark.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
Where is that?

Speaker 1 (51:11):
That is just a little bit to the west of the
Dallas-Fort Worth area.

Speaker 2 (51:15):
Okay, okay.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
Yeah, the potential for the newest state park in
this area may come around in ooh, maybe in the 2030s or so.
There's a park that parks andwildlife.
There's a piece of land thatare looking to develop called
Davis Hill along the Trinitynorth of Houston area.

(51:38):
That will be potential for usin the next couple of decades to
have a new state park in theHouston area.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
That's awesome.
I love that.
So is that kind of the processthat Galveston Island State Park
took?
That was the land donated.
Do you know if the land wasdonated or purchased?

Speaker 1 (51:55):
So I don't know the exact history of how the land
came to be.
I know that there was somepurchase.
I know there was some donationand things like that.
I wasn't around in the 70s, soexactly how it came to be.
I was at a park before thisthat was a leased park and it is

(52:16):
a little bit of a differentfeeling to be at a leased park.
One of the hits that TexasParks and Wildlife took this
year is what happened withFairfield.
It was a leased park situation.
The leased came up anddevelopers took over that park
and it was emotional for parkstaff, friends and colleagues

(52:39):
that worked at places like that.
So we want to protect all ofour parks to make sure that
things like that don't happenagain.
Sometimes we do have leasedparks and, like I said, a park
that I worked at before iscalled Lake Colorado City.
It's still on a leased piece ofland.
So it is out in West Texas overby Abilene Big Spring Midland

(53:07):
area and it's on a lake.
It's got about 500 acres.
Some of it Small pieces areowned, but for the most part it
is a lease that could go awayand those people may not have a
park in the future.
I don't see that happening withthat park, but that's a reality

(53:27):
when the state doesn't own theland.
So we're looking foropportunities to own everything
we can going forward.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
You know I don't believe the general public
really realizes that, becausewhen I think of a state park, I
think of it.
You know I went there as a kid.
I bring my kids there and mykids will bring their kids there
.
You think of it kind of beingthis infinite resource, honestly
, but it's not always the case.

Speaker 1 (53:54):
Well, I tell you, one of the things that the public
does know is to support it, andthey showed that to all Texans,
showed that in passing Prop 5and Prop 14, and that helped
with funding.
That helped with getting thepotential to buy more land for

(54:14):
parks.
So, you know, we were very,very proud to be a part of one
of the agencies that benefitfrom those decisions and we know
that people were voting thatmay not have ever been to a park
before, but they know the valueof it.
So that's important stuff andthose are the decisions that

(54:38):
will make sure that our parksare still here in the future.
That's where you can show.
Come to our park and visit, butmake sure you are a steward and
you're a proponent of savingplaces like this Well, have you
ever heard of South Galveston?

Speaker 2 (54:53):
Have you ever heard the name of it?
I absolutely have heard ofSouth Galveston.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
Yeah, so a little bit of South Galveston history
we're trying to bring up.
We did an event last yearcalled Destination Exploration
as a part of our centennial year, and the whole purpose of
Destination Exploration is, as Imentioned at the beginning.

(55:16):
My background and my passionsand my knowledge is more in the
natural resource side.
I do love the cultural andhistorical side but I'm a little
more timid in that area.
So we were deciding a big eventto do for the park and I said,
hey, I love natural and culturalhistory but I'm afraid to do a
lot of that for the park becauseI'm not as good with it.

(55:38):
So let's do a big event andbring a lot of people in to make
us look good at that.
So it worked out very well andour park staff at that time
found some great connections andwe brought people in to talk
about Lafitte and the greatexplorers.
We brought some folks in todiscuss Caronquans and early
people that were on the islandand we had a section that

(56:00):
discussed the town of SouthGalveston in particular.
It was a small activity thatwas done over the area that we
called Jenkins Bayou, becausethe town of South Galveston is
actually easiest to see outthere and the town of South
Galveston was laid out in theprairie area that is on the west

(56:22):
side of our park, the big openexpansion that was between us
and Jamaica Beach.
There's still some trails andareas out there that you can
hike that are very straightlines and you're like why would
a park?
Most of the time they'remeandering.
Well, the reason is we'refollowing old road beds that
were the town of South Galvestonand we brought up as an

(56:42):
activity a map and we cut outsome pieces and we said, okay,
you make your town of SouthGalveston, and so people would
kind of glue some things downand then we would show them then
what the town of SouthGalveston laid out was to be.
So there was a racetrack outthere.

(57:02):
There was multiple areas wherethere was businesses and houses
laid out on those streets.
The pond at the very end on theright hand side of Jenkins Bayou
was at one time a pond that wassupposed to have a big fountain
in the middle of it for thetown of South Galveston.
So some pretty interestingthings there.

(57:24):
I think at the end of Park Road66, there was supposed to be a
very large hotel that sat outthere.
So, yeah, what we have now as astate park almost wasn't.
You know, like we talked aboutearlier.
The development was much morevaluable as a community and as
houses and in terms of monetaryvalue.

(57:46):
So we are very lucky that wehave Galveston Island State Park
and not the town of SouthGalveston sitting right there on
our spot.

Speaker 2 (57:55):
So, yeah, that's kind of you know one reason I
brought it up.
You mentioned developmentearlier.
You know that South Galvestonwas meant to be established in
the 1880s and 1890s and theyreally got some good progress
going, had investors laid outthere.

Speaker 1 (58:10):
It was really laid out.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
They had investors from all over the country
looking to build that out and itstarted going.
And then, of course, the 1900sstorm hit and stopped.
They even had a rail linerunning from this side of the
island, east End of the.
Island out to South Galveston.
But yeah, it's a very realthing that the entire island
could have been developed at onepoint and still could in going

(58:33):
into the future.
You look at the expansion ofHouston, the population growth
in the Houston area and everyonewants to live on the coast,
like you said.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
But it's so nice that we have the state park today.
That storm of 1900, it wasdefinitely the most devastating
natural disaster you know inrecorded history.
But there's also some thingsthat you can look at and say,
besides the devastation,thankfully that happened and

(59:02):
stopped some stuff that wouldhave happened on this island in
terms of situations like that.
And we were set up to beHouston, we were set up to be
the mega port and the mega placeand I wouldn't have a job down
here.
We wouldn't have this beautifultourism spot that we had, we

(59:24):
would be a major industrialcomplex, 30 miles of nothing but
major, major heavy development.
So you know, through all thattragedy that happened, nature
came back and said hey, you guysare moving a little too fast.
So we learned from it.
We got a sea wall out of it, weraised an entire city, all of

(59:48):
that stuff, but we kept thisWest end because we weren't
developing it.
And we're learning.
I think our community islearning a lot from that.
If we didn't have that sea wallthere, the water would have
washed our dune system awayalong there long ago.
Water would be across townevery time that there was a
storm, every single time.

(01:00:08):
Our dune system out at the parkis as natural as we can get it
and it washes away with everymajor storm.
But because of the way that wemanage our park, we pick up
trash and debris like that offour beach but we do not rake it
and clean it of the plant lifethat comes up.

(01:00:28):
It's very important thatnourishes the beach and that
helps build our dunes.
At most, after a big stormwe'll push some of the logs and
stuff up into the dunes to helpbuild it.
But now we actually have twofull dunes and we have a third,
one kind of starting, and you goto other sections on the island
and they're lucky to have onedune system there.
So that is the original seawall.

(01:00:51):
Right there is a dune systemthat protects the West end from
things, so you gotta use naturesometimes as the way it was
intended.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
So, of course, of course.
And one thing I just thought ofthinking back on the plan that
I saw for the Ike Dyke or thecoastal barrier system they
wanted to elevate essentiallyfrom the sea wall all the way
down to the West end of theisland.
If that goes through, if thathappens, how is it gonna affect
the state park?

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
I don't know the 100% , the full extent.
I'd seen lots of differentplans.
There was some talk and theywere looking into going down the
highest point which, like Isaid, that elevation would have
put it right down the middle ofthe park.
I don't know if that is apossibility.
They talked about going downthe dune system and reinforcing

(01:01:42):
that.
I don't know where thathonestly is.
When that stuff comes to us, wewill.
We will deal with that as anagency in a park.
I understand as a communitythat there is some concerns and
needs for protection.
As a park manager, I also haveto make sure that we're

(01:02:07):
protecting our park the bestthat we can.
So where that will end up inlife for us, I really just don't
have the answers and I wish Iunderstood a little bit more of
what might come out of it.
But I think there's still a lotof plans to be understood in
that aspect.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
Of course, of course.
Was there anything else youwanted to cover that I may not
have asked you Anything else youwant to talk about with the
same park?

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
No, I've had a great time.
This has been a lot of fun.
I'm glad to hear that you are apark visitor.
You know, like I said before, Ijust encourage everybody to
come out and visit your statepark and let us know what you
see, what you like, what youdon't like.
Everything that we've doneprobably isn't what everybody

(01:02:56):
wanted, but in managing andbuilding what we had with the
resources we had, and looking attrying to sustain this park
long term, after the lessons welearned with Ike, I'm really
happy with where we are withthis park and even more things
going forward.
You were talking earlier with meabout going out to that first

(01:03:17):
hiking tower and hiking thetrails.
We are really focusing in thenext couple of years to try to
improve some of the trails andaccessibility.
We're going to try to pave fromthat parking lot out to that
first tower to make itcompletely accessible, do some
crush-granted on trails.
Hopefully do some more work onour boardwalks and improve that

(01:03:38):
area and make some of our trailsmore accessible for all
visitors.
Some potential greatpartnerships coming forward and
accessibility too.
So come out and find somethingin the park that's for you and,
if you've never been to a parkbefore.
One of the things that some ofour leaders have just said is
come out and let us teach youhow to park.

(01:03:59):
If you don't know what it is tocome to a park or how to enjoy
it, come out and ask our staffand we'll suggest a trail for
you.
We'll suggest a spot to gofishing, to go look at birds,
but we're the park experts andwe can teach you how to park if
you've never done it before.

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
That's awesome.
I love it I have a question.
You got a question.

Speaker 3 (01:04:22):
Okay, so you were talking about hurricanes and
storms and everything.
Do you ever see like a flux inany sort of like birds or other
mammals, when storms are hittingother animals?

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
Oh, yeah, I know what you mean.
Yeah, so, absolutely, that is avery real thing and one that we
can point out and how itaffects.
So here locally, you will seeanimals start to act a little
bit different birds and things,whenever there is a storm
approaching even our fronts,even our really big fronts, that

(01:05:01):
come through because they cantell things like barometric
pressure changes and stuffbetter than we can.
So you'll see them start to actdifferent.
But really really big stormsthat are coming in, some crazy
phenomenon will happen with that.
There are birds out, pelagicbirds, which are birds that stay
out over the ocean and out inthe out in the Gulf Pretty much

(01:05:22):
their entire lives.
Some of them will actually getcaught up in storms.
They will sometimes get pushedahead of them.
Some of them will actually havebeen documented as staying in
the eye and traveling with itand we will see a bunch of
pelagic species push up on thecoast and then the craziest

(01:05:46):
stuff that happens is if this isa hurricane that stays together
, a storm that stays togetherand pushes up into Texas, some
of those pelagic birds will endup on lakes way up in North
Texas or in other areas becausethey held inside of that storm
on their way up there.
A great example of how stormscan affect birds and disperse

(01:06:08):
them are the flamingos.
You all heard how manyflamingos were hit all across
the United States.
We had them here on Galveston anumber of times.
I missed them every single time.
It's still a life bird for me.
I like I would get the note oh,somebody's seen it.
This morning I'd run out thereand there was no flamingo for me
.
But a storm hit a really bigcolony of them and whenever it

(01:06:32):
hit them it disperse them northand they had them in a record
number of states All the way upthe East Coast, a few of them in
the Midwest, in same places.
That would not have happened ifthat storm wouldn't have hit
those birds, because theywouldn't have just overshot
migration.
It hit them and they pushed infront of that storm as it went

(01:06:53):
up the coast and it was a very,very unique situation.
Do you mean they migrate backdown?
Yep, they for the most part.
There may be a couple wanderingthat haven't been seen, but
after a while they got theirbearings.
Especially with a bird likethat, the resources it's looking
for, it's it starts to realizeit can't get those resources in

(01:07:15):
the same way that it wanted to.
It likes to eat certaincrustaceans it has to feed in a
certain way and they were notfinding success.
So they all started to pushback south and there hasn't been
any documented up inland inquite a while and only a few

(01:07:37):
sightings along the coast in anumber of months now.

Speaker 3 (01:07:41):
Another question Do you think the, do you think the
Eskimo Curly will ever beintroduced back then, Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:07:52):
That is a question for scientists of the future.
I can tell you how I feel aboutthat, more than if I, if I know
it will happen, or think aboutit, I don't think we should.
I don't think we shouldreintroduce species like that

(01:08:13):
again that is presumably extinct, in terms of recreating that
creature and putting it back outthere Because the world that it
lived in no longer exists andthe things that it needed may
not be there anymore.
So we're going to createsomething that doesn't know how
to survive anymore, becausethat's part of the reason that

(01:08:37):
it disappeared in the firstplace is issues like over
hunting and removing prairies,coastal stopover spots and stuff
.
We did that to such a massiveextent that that bird couldn't
exist in this location anymore.
So I personally, as anaturalist and professional in

(01:09:01):
this field, think we shouldn'tbring something back that we
don't have the world for anymore, because it would almost be sad
to say, like a second death forthem to live through that again
.
So we need to look at thethings that we can save and work
harder on that than worryingabout trying to bring something
back that we don't have theworld for anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:09:25):
Isn't it interesting that this is the first time in
history where we can actually wehave the ability to
scientifically bring theseextinct creatures back to life.
Like I know, they're working ona woolly mammoth right now over
in Siberia.
And it is fascinating thatthat's possible.

Speaker 1 (01:09:44):
and now the debate begins whether we should,
Whether we should yeah, like Isaid my thoughts on that,
wherever it goes is wherever itgoes, but if we're looking to
just grab a species that onceexisted and bring it back, we
have to recreate that situation.
So great.
If they bring that woollymammoth back, what are they

(01:10:06):
going to do?
Is it going to be in a peneating hay like a cow, or are we
going to create a refuge forsomething like that?
So same with the Eskimo Curlew.
We have species that representa very similar situation to that
bird.
You know, it's related to ourlong build curlews, it's related

(01:10:26):
to our wimberles and thingslike that.
So let's enjoy those and notmiss out on seeing those birds
because we do things that makethem disappear.
Let's enjoy those and rememberthe Eskimo Curlew for what it
was.

Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
Absolutely Anything else.
Jade, you got anything else?

Speaker 1 (01:10:48):
I enjoy questions Maybe.

Speaker 2 (01:10:51):
Sure, I should have mic'd you up.
I got a paragraph here.

Speaker 3 (01:10:56):
Go ahead, go ahead.
Yeah, go for it.
So you also were talking about,like the long migration.
How, like, how, like?
How do they survive coming fromlike really cold, cold areas to
now migrating south towardslike incredibly hot?

Speaker 1 (01:11:16):
Well, think about.
One of the reasons that they'releaving is because it's getting
cold, cold.
It's not cold cold yet.
So they're leaving from thoseareas because the day is
changing, the length of day,because temperature is changing,
because resources aredisappearing, so that that shore

(01:11:38):
bird that may go up there andnest in the tundra that ends up
in South America.
Yes, it's going to go throughextreme temperature changes, but
it's not going from the dead ofwinter in the north to the peak
of temperature in the south.
It is definitely going to gothrough a temperature change in

(01:11:58):
their bodies are made for this.
You know.
They put on certain amount ofweight for going up there and
living in a cooler time andcertain amount of fat and stuff
in their body needed to be up onthe breeding grounds and go
through that process of theirlife.
And then they fatten up prettygood and get a lot of reserves
and then they just take offflying.
Some of them won't even eat ontheir trips.

(01:12:22):
Some of these birds thatmigrate will not eat until they
get down there.
And all the reserves in theirbodies, all they have, some of
them will.
Some of the birds will stopover and eat.
Some of them will eat on theflight down.
Different things like that, justdepending on what it is Raptors
, shorebirds, warblers,different.
There's a different niche thatthey fill and they need

(01:12:46):
resources in different ways.
So that's one of the thingsthat why I'm so drawn to birds
is because the diversity.
It's like a giant Easter egghunt out there and I know
there's something out there.
Don't exactly know where it'sat or what I might find Maybe a
multicolored egg, maybe adiscolored egg, that color egg,

(01:13:07):
whatever.
But the diversity and thetreasure hunt of going out and
birding is what has alwaysappealed to me.
Finding new things, but prettyamazing, what they do to their
bodies to fly south and theyjust give it all they've got.

Speaker 3 (01:13:23):
That's awesome, morbid question then yeah, as
they're migrating is there asurvival rate.

Speaker 1 (01:13:35):
It is very, very, very low survival rate to be a
bird and live a couple of years.
That's why clutch sizes, birdshaving multiple eggs and stuff
that's why it's very importantthat is also a reason for demise
in some species is becausethey're not able to reproduce at

(01:13:57):
a rate that they aredisappearing at.
So sometimes that is an issueof wildlife, but there is a high
mortality rate on birdswhenever they migrate.
So things that we can do,besides having these wonderful
places and stopovers, is to makesure that whenever birds are in

(01:14:19):
migration, we don't do terriblethings to overstress them out.
Whenever you see sick orinjured birds, get them to a
professional or leave them aloneand let their body take over
and gain the resources back.
But if we're out there in themiddle of migration on a really
bad day of bad weather and wekeep continually just scaring

(01:14:42):
birds and scaring birds out ofbushes, they already don't have
anything in their reserves.
I have unfortunately seen amassive, massive fallout event
where birds were so tired wewere watching them die whenever
they would land.
There was almost nothing wecould do about it, just the

(01:15:02):
storm hit them at the exactwrong time in their migration
and you could go to the beachand wash them, wash up on the
shoreline.
You go to nature, parks andtrails and you would see some on
the ground there.
But the ones that did make itare stronger genetically.
That's the survival of thefittest and they're going to go

(01:15:24):
on and potentially, if youfollow those beliefs, going to
make a genetically stronger birdthat will be able to
potentially handle that a littlebit better.
The next journey, wow.

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
That is fascinating.
Anything else you get, I'm good, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:15:43):
I have a question, but it's more of a question that
I can Google and answer on myown.

Speaker 2 (01:15:47):
Well, how about we do it and go ahead?
Yeah, go for it.

Speaker 3 (01:15:49):
It's kind of the difference between like a state
park and, since I work for LoneStar Coastal Alliance, like the
difference.
Is it better to have like anNRA to a state park?
Is the funding?

Speaker 1 (01:16:02):
different, absolutely .
Funding will be different Stateparks, federal parks, you know
the local parks and stuff.
Is any one of them better thanthe other?
Of course the state park is thebest, because that's where I
work, you know they're allimportant.
I'm not going to say that anyone park is better than the

(01:16:24):
other.
I think the most important parkis the first park in anybody's
journey, because that's whereit's going to lead them.
My first park was my backyard,was my grandparents farm, and
that led me to a park in Texasthat I'm now running.
So every one of those parks isimportant.

(01:16:44):
It's important to save our cityparks.
It's important to saveunbelievable resources in our
national parks.
You know those were set asideby true geniuses like Roosevelt
saying, hey, these things areimportant and we need to save
them now, before they go away.
So every type of park that iscreated, whether it's a

(01:17:08):
non-for-profit, whether it's agovernment funded, whatever,
that's important, it's importantat that moment, at that time
and we need to do whatever wecan to help them out.
So you just celebrated 15 yearsat the Texas parks, yeah, I hit
16 years in the agency and onFebruary 28th, oh, 16 years.

Speaker 2 (01:17:31):
Well, congrats on that and congrats on becoming
the superintendent of GalvestonIsland State Park.
So, Kyle, this has been great.
Thank you so much for coming in.
This was very informative.
Very happy you were able tomake it down today.
I really appreciate it, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:46):
I appreciate the opportunity.