February 20, 2024 • 31 mins
Watch this full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/hUIY1lq-jYQ
Galveston Unscripted Video on U Boats in the Gulf of Mexico: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rLQODjyP8c
Galveston.com history video series: https://www.galveston.com/?s=Artifacts
Step back in time with George Osborne, our esteemed guest, whose rich tales from World War II-era Galveston weave a narrative that's as mesmerizing as it is educational. In our latest episode, George, a retired history teacher brings to life the island's 1940s landscape, marked by German U-boats prowling the Gulf of Mexico and the personal sagas of individuals Like Captain Gus Darnell. With each story, George's deep personal links to the island and his experiences as a volunteer on the Elissa and a seasonal park ranger shine through, offering a uniquely intimate perspective on this pivotal moment in history.
Galveston Unscripted is your gateway to the heart and soul of Galveston, Texas. Dive into captivating tales of Galveston's history, explore the breathtaking stories, and discover the vibrant cultural gems of Galveston. Subscribe for engaging narratives, exclusive insights, and an immersive journey through the essence of Galveston, Texas. #GalvestonUnscripted #galvestonhistory #texashistory
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So I've kind of divided this up into several
things.
There's a story with the dog.
I want you to think about this.
It's a good story.
Now, I don't want the truth toget in the way of a good story.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Right, hello and welcome to Galveston Unscripted.
In this episode today I sitdown with George Osborne to
discuss a little bit about WorldWar II history here in
Galveston.
George is a history enthusiast,a retired history teacher, and
he gives some pretty amazingtours here on the island.
Now, believe it or not, mrGeorge Osborne is kind of an
(00:32):
inspiration for GalvestonUnscripted.
A few years ago, as I was doingresearch online about
Galveston's history, I stumbledupon Galvestoncom and their
video history series featuringMr George Osborne.
These videos were recorded inthe 20 teens, but I highly
recommend you go to Galvestoncomand check out their video
(00:52):
series.
George and Lee fromGalvestoncom collaborated with
the Rosenberg Library andexplored Galveston's history
through a video series a lotlike I'm doing today, and if you
haven't checked out their videoseries, I highly recommend it.
Check the link in thedescription.
Over the past few years, georgeand I would run into each other
at coffee shops and we would sitdown and have lengthy
(01:14):
discussions about history notjust Galveston history but
history in general and I alwaysknew I wanted to get him on the
podcast.
George was kind enough to comeinto the studio, sit down with
me and discuss a lot aboutGalveston's World War II history
.
We dive into some informationand stories about German U-boats
in the Gulf of Mexico in 1942and 1943 during World War II.
(01:36):
We also touch on various topicsrelated to the early 1940s here
in Galveston, with a heavyfocus on World War II.
If you haven't yet, go checkout the video I put together on
German U-boats in the Gulf ofMexico.
That video includes portions ofthis interview where George
helps me tell the story of thoseGerman U-boats right off the
coast of Galveston.
Without further ado, let's hopright into this episode with Mr
(01:59):
George Osborn discussing WorldWar II and Galveston.
Welcome to Galveston,unscripted George.
Thank you so much for joiningme on Galveston, unscripted
George pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
This was probably five, six, seven years ago when
I started researching a littlebit of Galveston history.
Of course I would read thehistorical plaques and things
like that, but getting online Iwould search something specific
like the Galveston Causeway orthe Battle of Galveston, and
there were videos that popped upof you with Lee, with
Galvestoncom, and you guys did awhole video series on history,
(02:35):
right?
Speaker 1 (02:35):
We did.
We did.
That was a lot of fun and youcould still see those, I think,
on Galvestoncom.
That was a lot of fun doingwith those and research and he
tied in with the RosenbergLibrary a lot.
That was a great time.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
So you're kind of the original Galveston Unscripted.
You're like the original right.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Yes, yeah, well, thank you.
Thank you, I wouldn't callmyself that, but you know, sure,
yeah, you're my inspiration,I'll hold that.
Yeah, you're my inspiration forit.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Can you tell us a little bit about your background
and how you ended up here inthis seat today?
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Well, I've always been a history nut.
I don't know where that camefrom.
I guess my father was a WorldWar II vet.
He was interested in history.
They were oh.
My grandfather on the otherside was an Italian.
He was an immigrant, so I thinkthat's part of it.
(03:36):
And then I was alwaysinterested in history.
When the Alicifer's got here Iwas on the original volunteer
crew for that.
Wow, that's what brought me toGalveston.
I've always loved the historyof it.
Good stories, Good humanstories.
So I did that for a while.
(03:58):
Then I taught history and thenI was a seasonal park ranger for
national park service aroundthe country.
So that's always love hangingwith those people.
Some very knowledgeable people.
Butch, a bunch of history nerds.
You want people to get awayfrom you.
You start talking history.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
That's right, they'll move away, but you tracked the
people who are actuallyinterested.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
So you were a history teacher.
What grade did you?
Speaker 1 (04:30):
teach Junior high Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
And what aspect of history were you teaching?
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Did Texas history a lot.
That's some American historytoo.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
That's great.
I love that.
And so the park ranger.
You were moving all over theplace to be a park ranger in
different parts of the country.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Right, I was seasonal ranger, so you know, usually
summer.
So that was pretty interestingwork, you know.
It learned a lot from all kindof interesting people.
I worked at a park.
It was a Paleo Indian Park, soa lot of the rangers there could
make arrowheads out of a way.
I have no idea how to do that,but it was really cool to watch
(05:07):
them and learn their skills andjust see how, how, you know,
people lived before Europeansgot here.
And then I worked at severalother places too.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
We're going to do back-to-back episodes today, and
the first one we're going tohop into is a little bit of
history on World War II inGalveston, right, right right.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
I want to tell you now this is oral history backed
up by research.
Now, this story was told, maybe, by a guy named Judge Roy
Inglekey.
He was from Galveston Reallywhat a hell of a guy and so he
was telling me this when Roy wasabout World War II.
(05:51):
Roy is about 10 years old, sowhen he tells me this story he's
telling me it's a 10-year-oldtelling me.
You know, when people rememberchildhood stuff, judge Roy's
uncle.
This is early World War II,1942.
Roy's uncle was Gus Darnell.
(06:16):
He was a captain of a likesline ship.
Now, I wouldn't think aboutthat for a bit.
If you're a ten-year-old,wouldn't that be too cool to
have your uncle as a captain ofa ship?
I mean, that's just like wow,you know.
So Roy's uncle, captain Darnell, there's a ship called the
Tilly, not the Tilly likes, butthe Cardonia, his first ship.
(06:42):
Now, 1942, this place would havebeen wartime.
There were blackouts, therewere ships pulling in here that
had been damaged out there inthe ocean, the thing.
There would have been a wholebuzz about what's going on out
of there, from the seamen comingin here, the Norwegian seamen,
(07:04):
here the English seamen, theAmerican.
There would have been a buzzgoing on and there would have
been a lot of concern and a lotof fearful, because there were
articles in newspapers that werenot true about German submarine
bases in Mexico, secret bases.
That was a big fear, andlegitimately so.
(07:26):
So Roy's uncle, he's out on theCardonian, so they are attacked
.
One morning this is March 1942,early in the war, a few months
after Pearl Harbor there's aGerman submarine on the surface.
(07:46):
Now I want you to think abouthow bold that is.
During the day that that U-boatis on the surface, they sink
another ship within sight of theCardonia.
The Cardonia is trying to getaway.
Now these are not fast ships,these U-boats can really move on
the surface.
(08:07):
So they start chasing theCardonia.
This is during the daylight andCardonia makes smoke, weaves
back and forth, submarine fires52 shots at them out of their
(08:27):
deck gun over about a period ofan hour and a half.
Now I want you to think if youwere standing on the deck of the
Cardonia and these Germans arefiring this gun at you and not
you, the noise, the smoke, thefear, and they will actually hit
the Cardonia and eventuallyknocks out the power.
(08:49):
The order to abandon ship isgiven.
There was one man killed.
They abandoned the ship.
The submarine pulls up, shootsa couple more into the hull to
sink the ship.
Now think about this.
These guys are just lifeboatwatching.
Yeah, they're helpless.
(09:09):
Germans will come over.
They will now, later in a warthis would not happen.
But they give them some water,they give them a compass bearing
to Haiti, which is about 15miles away, just a little bit
over the horizon, so they canget that.
And in this boat is captain, thecaptain's dog.
(09:33):
So the captain's dog is namedDM for damn mess.
Captain Darnell gets his dog,dm, which is short for damn mess
, and the dog has been grown upon shipboard the whole time.
They come back.
(09:54):
He will come back to Galvestonand give Roy that dog.
He says you know, roy, it'sgetting a little dangerous out
there, I'm afraid to take thedog back out there.
So he gives it to Roy.
And the dog had one of thesethings when he would come up to
the door he would jump overRemember, watertight chip doors.
(10:17):
So the dog would come up andhe'd always jump just in the
house, he would just jump.
That was his thing and he wasapparently a real nice dog and
Roy had him for a while thecaptain Darnell.
He goes back out just a couplemonths later on a ship called
the Tilly likes and, from Roy'saccount, Never shows up again.
(10:44):
They don't know what happenedto the ship.
They assume it was sunk byU-boat.
Now, later, after the war, therecords are all put together and
the tilly likes get sunk byGerman submarine, essentially in
the same waters, and there wasno survivors.
And so that's how Roy told methis story.
(11:05):
Now DM.
I was like what happened to DMand he later would get run over
by a car.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Oh no.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
But he was a little older.
But I was taught.
You know that interesting storyof how this little dog survived
a U-boat attack.
Yeah and Roy story when he toldme that I mean it was very
emotional, you know these.
When he told me.
So that's one of the theinteresting stories I find out
of all that that is fascinating,and it was sunk right off of
(11:34):
the coast of Haiti right off thecoast of Haiti and you can find
the, you know the coordinatesand stuff is on there.
There's pictures of those shipslikes line had an office here in
Galveston and Like so I was abig, had a big office in New
Orleans and that was a bigplayer in merchant ships really
(11:55):
for Good part of the 20thcentury.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Yeah, and that's an interesting aspect of history
that I think we here inGalveston we may not really
think about too much is thatthere were ships leaving here
and coming to Port, the port ofGalveston, who were going
through those kind of navalchoking points you know, between
Haiti and the coast of Florida,or you know somewhere in that
area and and they would get sunkby and they were afraid there
(12:22):
were tremendous amount of ships.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Now, one of the things I know Roy like to do,
back in 94, over at the coastshere 21, there is a monument
they put up for 50 years afterD-Day and it shows there that
ships sunk into Gulf of Mexicoand the Bahamas and there's dots
(12:47):
on there for that very moving.
When you go look at it it'slike, oh man, look at all these
ships, a lot of ships, a lot ofcrews.
So it's pretty sad things andwe have very few Monuments to
our merchant Marines that werelost so earlier in your story
you mentioned blackouts.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
So I learned about blackouts not from Galveston,
but when I went to Pearl Harborlast year they talked about the
how they would black out theisland and turn all the lights
off.
So why?
Why would they turn the lightsoff here in Galveston?
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Well, the reason they're doing that, just like on
.
The problem is is If there aresubmarines out there, the enemy
and a ship comes Between atnight, between the lights and
the submarine, it silhouettesthat ship.
They had a big problem withthat on the east coast.
They didn't turn the lights outand they lost a whole bunch of
(13:43):
merchant ships that way.
So that's why you want to blackthe city out for those sort of
things.
And again, we don't know howmany you boats are out there at
any time.
You know in the in hindsight itprobably didn't, but we're
looking hindsight's okay to lookat.
We're looking at my god, howmany you boats are out there?
Do they have planes In Mexicoat hidden, secret air bases?
(14:08):
So that's, that's part of thedeal.
There are citizen groups that ITalked to, one woman, her
father had been a volunteerbeach guy and they would sit out
there on a beach withbinoculars and look for German
submarines.
Wow, and of course you know youcan imagine a fear.
Anything's gonna look like aGerman submarine, any piece of
(14:30):
debris Possibly.
Now I read one story where itwas a mop with a handle floating
around.
That's somebody looked like aperiscope, would look like one
to me.
I.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Everything looks like a you know.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
I'm a mile or two away and I could.
It's like holy moley.
Yeah, you know that would bepretty frightening.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
There's a newspaper article I believe it's in the
Galveston news or one of theolder Houston newspapers.
There was a tugboat runningfrom Galveston to Freeport to go
assist the ship over inFreeport during World War two.
And as the tug is making itsway over to Freeport they spot a
, a submarine or a U-boat right,maybe a mile away from you know
(15:12):
off the coast, because they're,you know, they're only maybe
half a mile to a mile runningover to Freeport.
And the captain Said whateverhappens, I'm not gonna allow
this German U-boat to take overthis tug, but I love God as a 22
caliber rifle.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Yeah, it's like these .
These they are unarmed vessels.
Yeah, you know, if they didhave a Weapon on it, sometimes
the naval arm guard they wouldput these.
But this was some.
Some of these old cannons hadbeen sent in front of Vfw from
World War one.
They put on these ships.
So it it was.
It was a very, very, verydangerous situation for merchant
(15:56):
semen and anybody out there.
Now just a Other note on thesethese two U boats that sunk the
Cardonia and then the tillielikes.
They would lost, be lost laterin a war with all hands.
So they, they did not survivethe war either.
Now another story I'll tell you.
(16:18):
Now.
This comes from a Guy namedBallinger Mills.
In fact his office was in thisbuilding.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Oh, really sure yeah sure, okay, it was a yeah it.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Interesting man, interesting man and I would know
him just like chatting with him.
So he told me this story.
Now, during World War two, heis a Navy officer and he is
stationed in New Orleans and theFBI comes by To the office and
(16:59):
says mr Mills, we need to seeyou in Galveston almost
immediately.
So he got the first train overhere.
Now he was released.
The Navy, this is the FBI, thisis J Edgar Hoover's FBI FBI
coming to talk to you.
(17:19):
So they came over to the house.
He met his wife at the house.
These FBI goes.
The guy said Mr Mills, we wantto rent a room in your house.
Can't tell you why.
We just want to rent thisupstairs room.
He goes how much?
How much will that cost us?
(17:41):
And Ballinger goes a dollar.
He said the FBI man opened hiswallet and gave him a dollar.
So later he goes back on.
So later, few months later, hiswife calls him and says they're
(18:01):
gone.
Fbi guys are gone.
Now the FBI man would come by inNew Orleans and goes Mr Mills,
he goes.
You cannot tell this till afterthe war.
This is a secret, but we werein your home.
We respect that.
You just have to know why wewere in there.
(18:22):
So they suspected across fromhis house there was a German who
lived, who has worked at thebeer brewery down here, the
Falstaff brewery.
He was one of the brewmasters.
Now they suspected him ofhaving an antenna through his in
his house and the way Ballingerdescribed it was it was a big
(18:46):
house that this antennasupposedly ran from the bottom
up to the deal.
As far as we know, nothinghappens.
So part two to this story is Isee an article in the paper one
day this is, you know, 20 yearsago maybe and the guy is looking
(19:07):
for does anybody know anystories about this kind of thing
?
So I call him up and he meetsme, I'm telling him this story
and when I say the FBI and I'mtelling him he gets focused
right in on me.
He is like giving me this yeah,look.
So I finish his story and hegoes well, I've been to the FBI,
(19:27):
the research and research, thiswhole story.
Now I don't know what the thing.
Now I don't know for a fact.
I don't believe that there theguy had an antenna, but that,
considering the time, people arescared, people are frightening,
(19:48):
they're gathering up Japanese,or they're gathering up Italians
, they're gathering up Germannationals.
They're having people to moveoff the coast.
Joe DiMaggio's father, who wasan Italian, had to move.
He had a fishing business inSan Francisco.
He had to move off the coast.
(20:08):
So that's the climate we're inon this stuff.
So there's a lot of mythologyabout this.
There's a lot of frighteningstuff that happens, you can see
in our own time.
People are frightened ofdifferent groups, and that's
what's going on there.
Now, a couple of other mythsthat I think.
(20:30):
Now I want you to think aboutthis, though too.
Just think of that.
Radio was there.
Now, considering 1940stechnology, he would have had to
send it to a U-boat here, andyou know, it just doesn't quite
(20:50):
seem to be able to work.
Now, another myth that I'veheard is that now is and I heard
this from somebody worked atthe Galvez.
Now I want you to think aboutthis.
It's a good story.
Now, I don't want the truth toget in the way of a good story,
(21:12):
but somebody had told, somebodyhad told somebody had told that
there was an old German guy whocame there and he goes.
You know, we had our submarineright off the shore.
We could hear the band playingat night.
Now that's a good story, isn'tit?
Speaker 2 (21:32):
They could hear the band playing.
Yeah, they were that close.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
But now think about this it's pretty shallow off
right over.
There's no place you would wantto come in with a U-boat.
Now you're going to have tohear that the south wind is
blowing the opposite way.
You know, don't let the truthget away with a good story.
So those are kind of one of theother things.
There was a couple other thingsI wrote down now.
(21:57):
Now this is also.
There was heard this fromNagoya.
There's a whole lot of Italianshrimp boats here, so they are
actually coming down.
Later there will be a federalagent.
I'm going to get some moredetail on that, but the rumor is
(22:18):
that these Italian shrimp boatsare going off rendezvousing
with German U-boats Remember,italy is an ally of Germany and
giving them diesel fuel.
But think about this a littlebit.
Number one how much diesel fueldoes a 1940 shrimp boat have?
(22:43):
Probably not much, not much.
Then you would have had torendezvous at sea with a German
submarine off.
It's a good story, but it'salso based in fear.
It's a climate of fear.
We can all understand how thatgoes.
There was a federal agent andwe'll talk about this guy named
(23:05):
Al Scharf, who had been involvedin arresting smugglers and
stuff back then, and he camedown to investigate that and, as
far as I can find, there was notruth to that.
But they investigate all theserumors, so that's one of the
(23:27):
real deals.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
I mean the best they could do, even if they could
rendezvous in the middle of theGulf of Mexico, which would be
very difficult in the 1940swithout the like we don't.
They didn't have the equipment,we have now.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Oh, no, no.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
The best they could do is maybe give them some food.
Yeah, that's pretty much it.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
That's the best they could do.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah, some provisions , some shrimp.
Here you go, have a shrimp boilon the U-boat.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
So those, but it is.
Now it almost kind of seemssilly, but at the time you got
to think about, people wereterrified.
Ships were disappearing,casually less were gone.
It's a pretty difficultsituation and especially when
you're reading these stories innewspapers about German spies
(24:09):
and Hollywood's making thesemovies on German spies and so,
yeah, I could, I could see thatwould be pretty scary.
Yeah, but again, think aboutthat.
We are involved when I say weGalveston, this part of Texas.
We got military bases here.
We got a blimp flying aroundlooking for submarines.
(24:30):
We got an air base here that'straining people.
We got Fort Crockett.
There's a lot of activemilitary activity here, lots of
military activity, ships goingout.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
So it would have been the prime spot for spies, for
sure would have been Especiallyyou know, like you mentioned,
you got the blimp, their baseyou got the coastal artillery.
You have all that, so you know,and not to mention a heavy
German population in Texas, inthis part of Texas.
So, yeah, it's it's veryplausible that there were there
were some messages getting backto Germany about what was going
(25:04):
on.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
It is, and they, they did round up German nationals
and put them into a prison camp.
There was a big prison campdown in South Texas had some
Japanese Germans and someItalian nationals.
So those were, those werepretty frightening.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yeah, and what's interesting, a lot of people
don't realize there were POWcamps here on the island and in
Bolivar as well.
Yes, and I'm sure right acrossthe causeway up in the mainland
as well, yes, there were.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
There were German POWs here at Fort Crockett.
There were some over there, andthey would tend to have them
doing.
You know, they would, you know,do the laundry or work in the
kitchen, that sort of stuff theywere, they were doing those
sort of things that they, theyjust needed.
And I remember talking to someold, some old guys who are
(25:54):
younger than I am now, by theway, but then they were children
.
They lived right behind FortCrockett and so the Germans
would come up and talk to them.
Some of them could speakEnglish pretty well and they
would talk to these, these boys.
You know, some of these Germans, they weren't that old, you
know, they were teens, early 20s.
So that was a very memorablething to them.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Yeah, I mean, how fascinating would that be.
Just you know, growing up inGalveston, you're a kid maybe 12
, 13.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Walking up to the fence, seeing a guy who's just a
few years older than you, who'dbeen captured in Germany.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
You know, and I wonder what that exchange would
have been like.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Yeah, it must have been real interesting because
you would have.
You would have had an olderbrother, yeah, you would have
had cousins that were in the USmilitary.
So, yeah, there's a whole lotof thoughts on that kind of
stuff.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Yeah, yeah, it's really interesting and
especially even though you havea fence in between you, it kind
of makes it more personal, it'sa personable exchange.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah, yeah, it's weird.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
I heard that there were some German POWs who
actually, when they werereleased, they actually moved
back to Texas.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
There were.
We had a whole lot of GermanPOWs and Italian POWs up here
there was, and Texas had a bunchof them because the weather was
nice.
They needed hands for farmingUp in the panhandle I visited a
site when I was up there and theItalian there were 30,000 of
(27:22):
them now there.
Now it's just a field and theyhad built a chapel that the
Knights of Columbus stillmaintains and it's a little
bitty chapel out there, out downa dirt road.
But it's just kind of cool whenyou think about all this
sadness of World War II going onand hear these, these guys out
here and then the local Catholicpriest would come out and do
(27:46):
mass forum and stuff.
And those guys were POWs, orthey were POWs, they were
Italians.
Wow, wow, and they painted.
I'm trying to remember theypainted a fresco at the local
Catholic church.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Of course they did.
They're Italians.
Yeah, they're.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Italians.
And the big thing, theycouldn't pay them, but they
could feed them.
So they'd have a big feast overthere for these Italian guys
and, yeah, some of them wouldstay or come back.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Yeah, what a fascinating aspect of history.
What a fascinating, you know.
It's kind of interesting.
Like here on the grounds in theUnited States you had
internment camps for theJapanese and in some Germans,
but then you had POW camps.
So it was just interesting howfear really ran a lot here in
(28:31):
the.
United States, especially onthe internment side.
But then you hear about thePOWs who moved back to the
United States or even juststayed here, yeah, so it's a
really interesting aspect of.
America's history.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Yeah, yeah, something .
It gets overshadowed a lot bythe bigger events of World War
II, but I think it's aninteresting human story also for
that.
I had a.
I worked with a guy many yearsago and he was in the American
Navy and there was a POW campnearby and later toward the end
(29:07):
of the war they would come byand drop the same German
soldiers off to work on yourfarm and they made friends with
about three of these guys.
They would drop, they weretheir farmhands and they had
them over for Christmas, youknow when they did, and so and I
could see that because hisparents they had a son that was
about the same age, it was offin the war and here's these
(29:30):
young German guys.
So it's just a human thing.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Yeah, it's a nice human story.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
That didn't happen all the time.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Of course.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
But it's nice to reflect on some of those things.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Yeah, and it just goes to show.
Just about war, it's usuallythe people at the top warring
with each other over borders andboundaries, but the people who
get caught in the middle areusually the young men who had
nothing to do with starting thewar in the first place.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Yeah, so that's more into this books written about
that.
People can research all thatstuff and there was a professor,
arnold Kramer, out of A&M,who's written several books
about German POWs in here, andso there's a lot of good
information and a lot of goodresearch if somebody's
interested in that.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Great, I'm going to find those books and link them
in the description.
Okay, you got anything else forus?
No, I think that's pretty muchcovered up.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Hopefully, you know I could go all day long.
But I think that we hit thehigh points on that one.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Yeah, Of course.
So currently you're givingtours here on the island, right?
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Yes, we give a with a .
Yeah, it was a historicalfoundation.
We give what's called a bloodand thunder or thunder and blood
tour.
Now, that's a term that wasused in the 19th century for
these novels of, you know,mayhem and destruction.
So what we concentrate on is1900 storm and a lot of gangland
(30:54):
murders in the downtown areawhich were there just quite a
few of them down here.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
So that and that's put on through GHF.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
That's put on by the Galveston Historical Foundation.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Awesome, awesome.
So I'm going to link that inthe description as well.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Thank you for having me Appreciate your time.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Of course.
Thanks, George.
So I've kind of divided this up into several
things.
There's a story with the dog.
I want you to think about this.
It's a good story.
Now, I don't want the truth toget in the way of a good story.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Right, hello and welcome to Galveston Unscripted.
In this episode today I sitdown with George Osborne to
discuss a little bit about WorldWar II history here in
Galveston.
George is a history enthusiast,a retired history teacher, and
he gives some pretty amazingtours here on the island.
Now, believe it or not, mrGeorge Osborne is kind of an
(00:32):
inspiration for GalvestonUnscripted.
A few years ago, as I was doingresearch online about
Galveston's history, I stumbledupon Galvestoncom and their
video history series featuringMr George Osborne.
These videos were recorded inthe 20 teens, but I highly
recommend you go to Galvestoncomand check out their video
(00:52):
series.
George and Lee fromGalvestoncom collaborated with
the Rosenberg Library andexplored Galveston's history
through a video series a lotlike I'm doing today, and if you
haven't checked out their videoseries, I highly recommend it.
Check the link in thedescription.
Over the past few years, georgeand I would run into each other
at coffee shops and we would sitdown and have lengthy
(01:14):
discussions about history notjust Galveston history but
history in general and I alwaysknew I wanted to get him on the
podcast.
George was kind enough to comeinto the studio, sit down with
me and discuss a lot aboutGalveston's World War II history
.
We dive into some informationand stories about German U-boats
in the Gulf of Mexico in 1942and 1943 during World War II.
(01:36):
We also touch on various topicsrelated to the early 1940s here
in Galveston, with a heavyfocus on World War II.
If you haven't yet, go checkout the video I put together on
German U-boats in the Gulf ofMexico.
That video includes portions ofthis interview where George
helps me tell the story of thoseGerman U-boats right off the
coast of Galveston.
Without further ado, let's hopright into this episode with Mr
(01:59):
George Osborn discussing WorldWar II and Galveston.
Welcome to Galveston,unscripted George.
Thank you so much for joiningme on Galveston, unscripted
George pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
This was probably five, six, seven years ago when
I started researching a littlebit of Galveston history.
Of course I would read thehistorical plaques and things
like that, but getting online Iwould search something specific
like the Galveston Causeway orthe Battle of Galveston, and
there were videos that popped upof you with Lee, with
Galvestoncom, and you guys did awhole video series on history,
(02:35):
right?
Speaker 1 (02:35):
We did.
We did.
That was a lot of fun and youcould still see those, I think,
on Galvestoncom.
That was a lot of fun doingwith those and research and he
tied in with the RosenbergLibrary a lot.
That was a great time.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
So you're kind of the original Galveston Unscripted.
You're like the original right.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Yes, yeah, well, thank you.
Thank you, I wouldn't callmyself that, but you know, sure,
yeah, you're my inspiration,I'll hold that.
Yeah, you're my inspiration forit.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Can you tell us a little bit about your background
and how you ended up here inthis seat today?
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Well, I've always been a history nut.
I don't know where that camefrom.
I guess my father was a WorldWar II vet.
He was interested in history.
They were oh.
My grandfather on the otherside was an Italian.
He was an immigrant, so I thinkthat's part of it.
(03:36):
And then I was alwaysinterested in history.
When the Alicifer's got here Iwas on the original volunteer
crew for that.
Wow, that's what brought me toGalveston.
I've always loved the historyof it.
Good stories, Good humanstories.
So I did that for a while.
(03:58):
Then I taught history and thenI was a seasonal park ranger for
national park service aroundthe country.
So that's always love hangingwith those people.
Some very knowledgeable people.
Butch, a bunch of history nerds.
You want people to get awayfrom you.
You start talking history.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
That's right, they'll move away, but you tracked the
people who are actuallyinterested.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
So you were a history teacher.
What grade did you?
Speaker 1 (04:30):
teach Junior high Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
And what aspect of history were you teaching?
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Did Texas history a lot.
That's some American historytoo.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
That's great.
I love that.
And so the park ranger.
You were moving all over theplace to be a park ranger in
different parts of the country.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Right, I was seasonal ranger, so you know, usually
summer.
So that was pretty interestingwork, you know.
It learned a lot from all kindof interesting people.
I worked at a park.
It was a Paleo Indian Park, soa lot of the rangers there could
make arrowheads out of a way.
I have no idea how to do that,but it was really cool to watch
(05:07):
them and learn their skills andjust see how, how, you know,
people lived before Europeansgot here.
And then I worked at severalother places too.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
We're going to do back-to-back episodes today, and
the first one we're going tohop into is a little bit of
history on World War II inGalveston, right, right right.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
I want to tell you now this is oral history backed
up by research.
Now, this story was told, maybe, by a guy named Judge Roy
Inglekey.
He was from Galveston Reallywhat a hell of a guy and so he
was telling me this when Roy wasabout World War II.
(05:51):
Roy is about 10 years old, sowhen he tells me this story he's
telling me it's a 10-year-oldtelling me.
You know, when people rememberchildhood stuff, judge Roy's
uncle.
This is early World War II,1942.
Roy's uncle was Gus Darnell.
(06:16):
He was a captain of a likesline ship.
Now, I wouldn't think aboutthat for a bit.
If you're a ten-year-old,wouldn't that be too cool to
have your uncle as a captain ofa ship?
I mean, that's just like wow,you know.
So Roy's uncle, captain Darnell, there's a ship called the
Tilly, not the Tilly likes, butthe Cardonia, his first ship.
(06:42):
Now, 1942, this place would havebeen wartime.
There were blackouts, therewere ships pulling in here that
had been damaged out there inthe ocean, the thing.
There would have been a wholebuzz about what's going on out
of there, from the seamen comingin here, the Norwegian seamen,
(07:04):
here the English seamen, theAmerican.
There would have been a buzzgoing on and there would have
been a lot of concern and a lotof fearful, because there were
articles in newspapers that werenot true about German submarine
bases in Mexico, secret bases.
That was a big fear, andlegitimately so.
(07:26):
So Roy's uncle, he's out on theCardonian, so they are attacked
.
One morning this is March 1942,early in the war, a few months
after Pearl Harbor there's aGerman submarine on the surface.
(07:46):
Now I want you to think abouthow bold that is.
During the day that that U-boatis on the surface, they sink
another ship within sight of theCardonia.
The Cardonia is trying to getaway.
Now these are not fast ships,these U-boats can really move on
the surface.
(08:07):
So they start chasing theCardonia.
This is during the daylight andCardonia makes smoke, weaves
back and forth, submarine fires52 shots at them out of their
(08:27):
deck gun over about a period ofan hour and a half.
Now I want you to think if youwere standing on the deck of the
Cardonia and these Germans arefiring this gun at you and not
you, the noise, the smoke, thefear, and they will actually hit
the Cardonia and eventuallyknocks out the power.
(08:49):
The order to abandon ship isgiven.
There was one man killed.
They abandoned the ship.
The submarine pulls up, shootsa couple more into the hull to
sink the ship.
Now think about this.
These guys are just lifeboatwatching.
Yeah, they're helpless.
(09:09):
Germans will come over.
They will now, later in a warthis would not happen.
But they give them some water,they give them a compass bearing
to Haiti, which is about 15miles away, just a little bit
over the horizon, so they canget that.
And in this boat is captain, thecaptain's dog.
(09:33):
So the captain's dog is namedDM for damn mess.
Captain Darnell gets his dog,dm, which is short for damn mess
, and the dog has been grown upon shipboard the whole time.
They come back.
(09:54):
He will come back to Galvestonand give Roy that dog.
He says you know, roy, it'sgetting a little dangerous out
there, I'm afraid to take thedog back out there.
So he gives it to Roy.
And the dog had one of thesethings when he would come up to
the door he would jump overRemember, watertight chip doors.
(10:17):
So the dog would come up andhe'd always jump just in the
house, he would just jump.
That was his thing and he wasapparently a real nice dog and
Roy had him for a while thecaptain Darnell.
He goes back out just a couplemonths later on a ship called
the Tilly likes and, from Roy'saccount, Never shows up again.
(10:44):
They don't know what happenedto the ship.
They assume it was sunk byU-boat.
Now, later, after the war, therecords are all put together and
the tilly likes get sunk byGerman submarine, essentially in
the same waters, and there wasno survivors.
And so that's how Roy told methis story.
(11:05):
Now DM.
I was like what happened to DMand he later would get run over
by a car.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Oh no.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
But he was a little older.
But I was taught.
You know that interesting storyof how this little dog survived
a U-boat attack.
Yeah and Roy story when he toldme that I mean it was very
emotional, you know these.
When he told me.
So that's one of the theinteresting stories I find out
of all that that is fascinating,and it was sunk right off of
(11:34):
the coast of Haiti right off thecoast of Haiti and you can find
the, you know the coordinatesand stuff is on there.
There's pictures of those shipslikes line had an office here in
Galveston and Like so I was abig, had a big office in New
Orleans and that was a bigplayer in merchant ships really
(11:55):
for Good part of the 20thcentury.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Yeah, and that's an interesting aspect of history
that I think we here inGalveston we may not really
think about too much is thatthere were ships leaving here
and coming to Port, the port ofGalveston, who were going
through those kind of navalchoking points you know, between
Haiti and the coast of Florida,or you know somewhere in that
area and and they would get sunkby and they were afraid there
(12:22):
were tremendous amount of ships.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Now, one of the things I know Roy like to do,
back in 94, over at the coastshere 21, there is a monument
they put up for 50 years afterD-Day and it shows there that
ships sunk into Gulf of Mexicoand the Bahamas and there's dots
(12:47):
on there for that very moving.
When you go look at it it'slike, oh man, look at all these
ships, a lot of ships, a lot ofcrews.
So it's pretty sad things andwe have very few Monuments to
our merchant Marines that werelost so earlier in your story
you mentioned blackouts.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
So I learned about blackouts not from Galveston,
but when I went to Pearl Harborlast year they talked about the
how they would black out theisland and turn all the lights
off.
So why?
Why would they turn the lightsoff here in Galveston?
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Well, the reason they're doing that, just like on
.
The problem is is If there aresubmarines out there, the enemy
and a ship comes Between atnight, between the lights and
the submarine, it silhouettesthat ship.
They had a big problem withthat on the east coast.
They didn't turn the lights outand they lost a whole bunch of
(13:43):
merchant ships that way.
So that's why you want to blackthe city out for those sort of
things.
And again, we don't know howmany you boats are out there at
any time.
You know in the in hindsight itprobably didn't, but we're
looking hindsight's okay to lookat.
We're looking at my god, howmany you boats are out there?
Do they have planes In Mexicoat hidden, secret air bases?
(14:08):
So that's, that's part of thedeal.
There are citizen groups that ITalked to, one woman, her
father had been a volunteerbeach guy and they would sit out
there on a beach withbinoculars and look for German
submarines.
Wow, and of course you know youcan imagine a fear.
Anything's gonna look like aGerman submarine, any piece of
(14:30):
debris Possibly.
Now I read one story where itwas a mop with a handle floating
around.
That's somebody looked like aperiscope, would look like one
to me.
I.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Everything looks like a you know.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
I'm a mile or two away and I could.
It's like holy moley.
Yeah, you know that would bepretty frightening.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
There's a newspaper article I believe it's in the
Galveston news or one of theolder Houston newspapers.
There was a tugboat runningfrom Galveston to Freeport to go
assist the ship over inFreeport during World War two.
And as the tug is making itsway over to Freeport they spot a
, a submarine or a U-boat right,maybe a mile away from you know
(15:12):
off the coast, because they're,you know, they're only maybe
half a mile to a mile runningover to Freeport.
And the captain Said whateverhappens, I'm not gonna allow
this German U-boat to take overthis tug, but I love God as a 22
caliber rifle.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Yeah, it's like these .
These they are unarmed vessels.
Yeah, you know, if they didhave a Weapon on it, sometimes
the naval arm guard they wouldput these.
But this was some.
Some of these old cannons hadbeen sent in front of Vfw from
World War one.
They put on these ships.
So it it was.
It was a very, very, verydangerous situation for merchant
(15:56):
semen and anybody out there.
Now just a Other note on thesethese two U boats that sunk the
Cardonia and then the tillielikes.
They would lost, be lost laterin a war with all hands.
So they, they did not survivethe war either.
Now another story I'll tell you.
(16:18):
Now.
This comes from a Guy namedBallinger Mills.
In fact his office was in thisbuilding.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Oh, really sure yeah sure, okay, it was a yeah it.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Interesting man, interesting man and I would know
him just like chatting with him.
So he told me this story.
Now, during World War two, heis a Navy officer and he is
stationed in New Orleans and theFBI comes by To the office and
(16:59):
says mr Mills, we need to seeyou in Galveston almost
immediately.
So he got the first train overhere.
Now he was released.
The Navy, this is the FBI, thisis J Edgar Hoover's FBI FBI
coming to talk to you.
(17:19):
So they came over to the house.
He met his wife at the house.
These FBI goes.
The guy said Mr Mills, we wantto rent a room in your house.
Can't tell you why.
We just want to rent thisupstairs room.
He goes how much?
How much will that cost us?
(17:41):
And Ballinger goes a dollar.
He said the FBI man opened hiswallet and gave him a dollar.
So later he goes back on.
So later, few months later, hiswife calls him and says they're
(18:01):
gone.
Fbi guys are gone.
Now the FBI man would come by inNew Orleans and goes Mr Mills,
he goes.
You cannot tell this till afterthe war.
This is a secret, but we werein your home.
We respect that.
You just have to know why wewere in there.
(18:22):
So they suspected across fromhis house there was a German who
lived, who has worked at thebeer brewery down here, the
Falstaff brewery.
He was one of the brewmasters.
Now they suspected him ofhaving an antenna through his in
his house and the way Ballingerdescribed it was it was a big
(18:46):
house that this antennasupposedly ran from the bottom
up to the deal.
As far as we know, nothinghappens.
So part two to this story is Isee an article in the paper one
day this is, you know, 20 yearsago maybe and the guy is looking
(19:07):
for does anybody know anystories about this kind of thing
?
So I call him up and he meetsme, I'm telling him this story
and when I say the FBI and I'mtelling him he gets focused
right in on me.
He is like giving me this yeah,look.
So I finish his story and hegoes well, I've been to the FBI,
(19:27):
the research and research, thiswhole story.
Now I don't know what the thing.
Now I don't know for a fact.
I don't believe that there theguy had an antenna, but that,
considering the time, people arescared, people are frightening,
(19:48):
they're gathering up Japanese,or they're gathering up Italians
, they're gathering up Germannationals.
They're having people to moveoff the coast.
Joe DiMaggio's father, who wasan Italian, had to move.
He had a fishing business inSan Francisco.
He had to move off the coast.
(20:08):
So that's the climate we're inon this stuff.
So there's a lot of mythologyabout this.
There's a lot of frighteningstuff that happens, you can see
in our own time.
People are frightened ofdifferent groups, and that's
what's going on there.
Now, a couple of other mythsthat I think.
(20:30):
Now I want you to think aboutthis, though too.
Just think of that.
Radio was there.
Now, considering 1940stechnology, he would have had to
send it to a U-boat here, andyou know, it just doesn't quite
(20:50):
seem to be able to work.
Now, another myth that I'veheard is that now is and I heard
this from somebody worked atthe Galvez.
Now I want you to think aboutthis.
It's a good story.
Now, I don't want the truth toget in the way of a good story,
(21:12):
but somebody had told, somebodyhad told somebody had told that
there was an old German guy whocame there and he goes.
You know, we had our submarineright off the shore.
We could hear the band playingat night.
Now that's a good story, isn'tit?
Speaker 2 (21:32):
They could hear the band playing.
Yeah, they were that close.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
But now think about this it's pretty shallow off
right over.
There's no place you would wantto come in with a U-boat.
Now you're going to have tohear that the south wind is
blowing the opposite way.
You know, don't let the truthget away with a good story.
So those are kind of one of theother things.
There was a couple other thingsI wrote down now.
(21:57):
Now this is also.
There was heard this fromNagoya.
There's a whole lot of Italianshrimp boats here, so they are
actually coming down.
Later there will be a federalagent.
I'm going to get some moredetail on that, but the rumor is
(22:18):
that these Italian shrimp boatsare going off rendezvousing
with German U-boats Remember,italy is an ally of Germany and
giving them diesel fuel.
But think about this a littlebit.
Number one how much diesel fueldoes a 1940 shrimp boat have?
(22:43):
Probably not much, not much.
Then you would have had torendezvous at sea with a German
submarine off.
It's a good story, but it'salso based in fear.
It's a climate of fear.
We can all understand how thatgoes.
There was a federal agent andwe'll talk about this guy named
(23:05):
Al Scharf, who had been involvedin arresting smugglers and
stuff back then, and he camedown to investigate that and, as
far as I can find, there was notruth to that.
But they investigate all theserumors, so that's one of the
(23:27):
real deals.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
I mean the best they could do, even if they could
rendezvous in the middle of theGulf of Mexico, which would be
very difficult in the 1940swithout the like we don't.
They didn't have the equipment,we have now.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Oh, no, no.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
The best they could do is maybe give them some food.
Yeah, that's pretty much it.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
That's the best they could do.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah, some provisions , some shrimp.
Here you go, have a shrimp boilon the U-boat.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
So those, but it is.
Now it almost kind of seemssilly, but at the time you got
to think about, people wereterrified.
Ships were disappearing,casually less were gone.
It's a pretty difficultsituation and especially when
you're reading these stories innewspapers about German spies
(24:09):
and Hollywood's making thesemovies on German spies and so,
yeah, I could, I could see thatwould be pretty scary.
Yeah, but again, think aboutthat.
We are involved when I say weGalveston, this part of Texas.
We got military bases here.
We got a blimp flying aroundlooking for submarines.
(24:30):
We got an air base here that'straining people.
We got Fort Crockett.
There's a lot of activemilitary activity here, lots of
military activity, ships goingout.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
So it would have been the prime spot for spies, for
sure would have been Especiallyyou know, like you mentioned,
you got the blimp, their baseyou got the coastal artillery.
You have all that, so you know,and not to mention a heavy
German population in Texas, inthis part of Texas.
So, yeah, it's it's veryplausible that there were there
were some messages getting backto Germany about what was going
(25:04):
on.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
It is, and they, they did round up German nationals
and put them into a prison camp.
There was a big prison campdown in South Texas had some
Japanese Germans and someItalian nationals.
So those were, those werepretty frightening.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yeah, and what's interesting, a lot of people
don't realize there were POWcamps here on the island and in
Bolivar as well.
Yes, and I'm sure right acrossthe causeway up in the mainland
as well, yes, there were.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
There were German POWs here at Fort Crockett.
There were some over there, andthey would tend to have them
doing.
You know, they would, you know,do the laundry or work in the
kitchen, that sort of stuff theywere, they were doing those
sort of things that they, theyjust needed.
And I remember talking to someold, some old guys who are
(25:54):
younger than I am now, by theway, but then they were children
.
They lived right behind FortCrockett and so the Germans
would come up and talk to them.
Some of them could speakEnglish pretty well and they
would talk to these, these boys.
You know, some of these Germans, they weren't that old, you
know, they were teens, early 20s.
So that was a very memorablething to them.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Yeah, I mean, how fascinating would that be.
Just you know, growing up inGalveston, you're a kid maybe 12
, 13.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Walking up to the fence, seeing a guy who's just a
few years older than you, who'dbeen captured in Germany.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
You know, and I wonder what that exchange would
have been like.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Yeah, it must have been real interesting because
you would have.
You would have had an olderbrother, yeah, you would have
had cousins that were in the USmilitary.
So, yeah, there's a whole lotof thoughts on that kind of
stuff.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Yeah, yeah, it's really interesting and
especially even though you havea fence in between you, it kind
of makes it more personal, it'sa personable exchange.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah, yeah, it's weird.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
I heard that there were some German POWs who
actually, when they werereleased, they actually moved
back to Texas.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
There were.
We had a whole lot of GermanPOWs and Italian POWs up here
there was, and Texas had a bunchof them because the weather was
nice.
They needed hands for farmingUp in the panhandle I visited a
site when I was up there and theItalian there were 30,000 of
(27:22):
them now there.
Now it's just a field and theyhad built a chapel that the
Knights of Columbus stillmaintains and it's a little
bitty chapel out there, out downa dirt road.
But it's just kind of cool whenyou think about all this
sadness of World War II going onand hear these, these guys out
here and then the local Catholicpriest would come out and do
(27:46):
mass forum and stuff.
And those guys were POWs, orthey were POWs, they were
Italians.
Wow, wow, and they painted.
I'm trying to remember theypainted a fresco at the local
Catholic church.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Of course they did.
They're Italians.
Yeah, they're.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Italians.
And the big thing, theycouldn't pay them, but they
could feed them.
So they'd have a big feast overthere for these Italian guys
and, yeah, some of them wouldstay or come back.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Yeah, what a fascinating aspect of history.
What a fascinating, you know.
It's kind of interesting.
Like here on the grounds in theUnited States you had
internment camps for theJapanese and in some Germans,
but then you had POW camps.
So it was just interesting howfear really ran a lot here in
(28:31):
the.
United States, especially onthe internment side.
But then you hear about thePOWs who moved back to the
United States or even juststayed here, yeah, so it's a
really interesting aspect of.
America's history.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Yeah, yeah, something .
It gets overshadowed a lot bythe bigger events of World War
II, but I think it's aninteresting human story also for
that.
I had a.
I worked with a guy many yearsago and he was in the American
Navy and there was a POW campnearby and later toward the end
(29:07):
of the war they would come byand drop the same German
soldiers off to work on yourfarm and they made friends with
about three of these guys.
They would drop, they weretheir farmhands and they had
them over for Christmas, youknow when they did, and so and I
could see that because hisparents they had a son that was
about the same age, it was offin the war and here's these
(29:30):
young German guys.
So it's just a human thing.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Yeah, it's a nice human story.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
That didn't happen all the time.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Of course.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
But it's nice to reflect on some of those things.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Yeah, and it just goes to show.
Just about war, it's usuallythe people at the top warring
with each other over borders andboundaries, but the people who
get caught in the middle areusually the young men who had
nothing to do with starting thewar in the first place.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Yeah, so that's more into this books written about
that.
People can research all thatstuff and there was a professor,
arnold Kramer, out of A&M,who's written several books
about German POWs in here, andso there's a lot of good
information and a lot of goodresearch if somebody's
interested in that.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Great, I'm going to find those books and link them
in the description.
Okay, you got anything else forus?
No, I think that's pretty muchcovered up.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Hopefully, you know I could go all day long.
But I think that we hit thehigh points on that one.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Yeah, Of course.
So currently you're givingtours here on the island, right?
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Yes, we give a with a .
Yeah, it was a historicalfoundation.
We give what's called a bloodand thunder or thunder and blood
tour.
Now, that's a term that wasused in the 19th century for
these novels of, you know,mayhem and destruction.
So what we concentrate on is1900 storm and a lot of gangland
(30:54):
murders in the downtown areawhich were there just quite a
few of them down here.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
So that and that's put on through GHF.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
That's put on by the Galveston Historical Foundation.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Awesome, awesome.
So I'm going to link that inthe description as well.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Thank you for having me Appreciate your time.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Of course.
Thanks, George.
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