August 18, 2023 • 49 mins
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Galveston Scottish Rite
I sit down with Roy De Gesero, an officer of the Galveston Scottish Rite in Galveston, Texas. We discuss the history of the Scottish Rite in Texas and Galveston. The Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite is a centuries-old, global fraternity founded on principles of Brotherly Love, Relief, and Truth. The Galveston Scottish Rite, established in 1867, holds the distinction of being Texas' oldest chapter and home to the state's initial "high" degrees of Freemasonry. With a resilient history spanning 150 years, the Galveston Valley has overcome challenges like epidemics, floods, and fires, remaining steadfast in its service to members and the community.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
C0008_1 (00:00):
I didn't know before you gave me the tour was that
(00:02):
you, you had to believe in somehigher power, some higher
entity.
I have always heard it's asecret society.
I have no idea really whatmasons do so you could trust
people with your life and yourmoney to build things because
they had proven to you that theyknew these.
And this was considered to beabsolutely top secret.
(00:22):
To be able to identify yourselflike that.
That was their version of apassport.
Because we didn't have passportsback then.
J.R. (00:28):
Welcome to Galveston Unscripted.
I have a couple great things foryou today.
have you ever passed by 22ndchurch street and wondered what
that beautiful 1929 Art Decobuilding is doing there?
When this episode We have aconversation with Roy DeGessaro.
we dive into the history ofFreemasonry and Freemasonry in
Texas and Galveston.
In association with thisepisode, we also have a video
(00:51):
walkthrough tour of the ScottishRite Roy and I recorded this
episode on location inside theScottish Rite, right after we
finished our video walkthroughtour.
If you haven't yet, go check outthat tour on our YouTube
channel.
We explore the entire building,including the lodge room, the
library, and the 1929 vaudevilletheater.
(01:11):
Only a few theaters of thisstyle are still existing today.
And a special thank you to BeckyMajor for setting this tour and
interview up.
We really appreciate it.
Wherever you are watching orlistening to Galveston
Unscripted...
Please make sure to subscribe,like, give us a rating, give us
a review, let us know how we'redoing, let us know what you want
to see in the future.
Follow us on Facebook,Instagram, TikTok, we are
(01:33):
everywhere.
Now let's dive right into thisepisode with Roy DeGessereau,
discussing the history ofFreemasonry and Freemasonry in
Texas and Galveston, stemmingall the way back to 1867, right
here on our island.
C0008_1 (01:49):
First of all, thank you so much for letting me come into
the Scottish Rite Temple here inGalveston and come explore it
today.
It was absolutely fascinating tosee the tour.
The tour will be in a separatevideo people can go and watch
and experience what it's likehere.
But yeah, thank you so much.
I really appreciate it.
Could you tell us a little bitabout yourself?
And, you know,, a little selfintroduction.
(02:10):
Alright, well, very good.
Actually, I was born in...
The Republic of Texas, Cheyenne,Wyoming, but back in 1840, I was
told that was part of theRepublic of Texas, so, and I've
seen some maps that'll attest tothat, but grew up in Michigan
and spent most of my life eitherin Europe or Texas after that,
(02:33):
uh, worked for quite some timein, uh, Northern Europe and, uh,
met my wife over there and wemoved, uh, To the states in 1980
and worked out of Freeport forDow Chemical and did quite a bit
of a global travel over theyears.
Always in the environmentalbusiness, we sort of were
(02:55):
learning how to do these thingsback in the 70s and 80s.
Yeah.
How to, how to protect theenvironment.
So that was, that was my majorcareer.
And then afterwards, I came downto this area to help lead a
project.
to restructure a plant site thatDow had bought over in Texas
City.
And really it was quite simple.
(03:18):
We were living in Katy at thetime.
And it was, the drive was ofcourse impossible from Katy to
Texas City.
So we eventually wound up movingto Galveston, which turned out
to be just a wonderful,wonderful decision.
Prior to that, we had beenliving in West Columbia.
And it was there that I startedto get the appreciation for the
history of Texas.
Because West Columbia was thefirst capital.
(03:40):
And, uh, Varner Hog Plantation,et cetera, and East Columbia,
and all of that became quite,quite interesting.
It was there also that I becamea Mason.
the reason was, uh, because I'dbeen curious as to what Masonry
was all about, and never reallyunderstood it, but I got to
learn it real quick.
Yeah.
So, and then after that wemoved, uh, from West Columbia to
(04:02):
Katy and from Katy to Galveston.
And this has, uh, been our homefor the last 20 years.
So it's always been a delightfulpleasure to learn more and more
about it.
I'm heavily involved in the tallship, Alyssa, and with GHF,
which is an absolutely wonderfulorganization.
And we've got a tremendoussailing ship.
So if we have any youthlistening to this, youth is
(04:22):
anybody under the age of, youname it, as you can see, we
welcome you to come on down andjoin the crew.
But you gotta hurry, we've onlygot a couple more slots left
open.
Come on down.
We need we need all the crew.
We can get our hands on and it'sa wonderful experience.
So back about five years ago,the secretary of the Scottish
(04:42):
right here in Galveston wasabout ready to retire.
And so I was brought in to justhelp do some stuff and that
helped do some stuff all of asudden turned into your it.
So here we are.
And we've gone through, uh, ofcourse, the number of changes
that society went through, butwe, I think, went through COVID.
with mercifully few problems inour organization or amongst our
(05:06):
members.
And that's, we're very, veryhappy about that, of course.
Then we also, in 2019, formed a501c3 called the Galveston
Theatre and Arts Partnership.
It's there that I met some of myvery dear new friends,
particularly Becky Major and thegang over at the Proletariat,
who have been vastly supportiveof our efforts here to introduce
(05:28):
the general public to thehistory of this area, and you've
got to recognize thatGalveston's ten generations old.
Texas is ten generations old.
It's brand new.
We're going so fast forward thatwe sometimes haven't been
looking at where we've comefrom.
And the question is, whoa, whatabout the Masons?
(05:50):
What do they have to do with it?
Well, Austin and all thoseoriginal folks, they were
Masons, And they came here notbecause they were Masons, but
they were Masons who came here.
And tried to open up a newworld, and went up the Brazos
River.
That's how the history goes.
And there's some wonderful,wonderful stories about all that
(06:11):
that are very, very, uh,Enjoyable and very informative.
I'm very, also was verydelighted to see that the Ball
High class called GalvestonHistory, uh, visited us in
February of this year.
It was just wonderful to see 85young men and women, our future,
and telling them a little bitabout some of the wonderful
history that we hope to preservefor them.
(06:32):
And so that's what GTAP is herefor, is to educate people to the
history, not of masonry, but ofthis area, and educate people to
the, some of the wonderfulstories and culture.
Artifacts that have been leftbehind, like this building, like
so much of Galveston, like, uh,even the building of the
proletariats, and that was anopera house, I learned, you
know, whoa, really?
Tremont Opera House.
(06:52):
Yes, you know, and so there's somuch to be learned, and we're so
grateful that people like GHF,etc., are able to help preserve
this.
We are now in a campaign to tryto preserve this temple, and
make sure that it's going to behere for our grandkids,
grandkids.
And that's what GTAP or theGalveston Theatre and Arts
Partnership is doing.
We've had a tremendous amount oflearning since COVID here
(07:15):
because we have, HurricaneHarvey did some damage to the
building and we're trying to getthat repaired.
And we brought in an expert onthe scenery that we looked at a
little bit earlier, Dr.
Wendy Wazup Berrett, and she isjust astounded at the quality of
the scenery that we have here.
And that's one of the thingsthat we can offer the public in
our 1929 authentic vaudevilletheater.
(07:37):
And we have a mega entertainmentflex here.
Back, of course, since 1900sstyle entertainment mega flex.
But it's the way things weredone and we got the acoustics in
here are phenomenal.
So for live events, this is ahard place to be.
So that's a little bit aboutwhat we've been doing.
I've got, uh, three lovelydaughters and a couple of great
(07:58):
grandkids.
They're very active out inVanderpool area.
We have a little place there.
And they live in Utopia, Texas.
Oh, Utopia, yeah.
Yeah, Utopia, Texas.
And, uh, quite active in, uh,all of the local goings on there
in Utopia.
The family is.
It's a great pleasure to go outand visit them.
Mm-hmm.
and, uh, the rest of thefamily's spread like so many
other American families allacross the country.
(08:20):
So that's, that's a little bitof where we're at.
Awesome.
That's great.
Well, great introduction and agreat description of this venue
that we're sitting in today.
It is an amazing venue to hold,um, you know, any type of event
you would like to have and comeinto this historic facility and,
and live in the history of notonly Galveston but Texas and.
(08:43):
Masonry, right?
So, um, one thing I'm reallycurious about is masonry in
general.
I've always heard about it.
I have always heard it's asecret society.
I have no idea really whatmasons do or anything.
Could you give us a littledescription of how masonry
started and what it is?
There's a lot of discussionamongst masons as to exactly
(09:05):
where and when and how, but thisgrew out of the stone masons,
the people who used to build.
Uh, cathedrals and you name itall over Europe and what they,
of course, if I was a Frenchspeaking person and I had to
build a cathedral in, inGermany, I might not speak that
language, but I could identifymyself because I didn't have a
(09:26):
passport.
I couldn't even read, but I sureknew how to do stonework.
I could identify which level ofmasonry I had attained by being
able to do certain signs orsymbols or words or explanations
of things.
Without using anything more thanvisual signals.
So that was how they identified,Oh, you know how to do that, so
(09:47):
you must be at this level.
You can do this.
Oh, you can do that.
You're at this high, high level.
And so you could trust peoplewith your life and your money to
build things because they hadproven to you that they knew
these.
And this was considered to beabsolutely top secret.
To be able to identify yourselflike that.
That was their version of apassport.
(10:08):
Because we didn't have passportsback then.
And so that was how craftsmenidentified themselves.
And this was not only inmasonry, it was in other guilds
too.
So the masons then,interestingly enough, started to
attract the attention of thenobility and some of the other
businessmen in Europe.
And they said, well, um, couldwe maybe be speculative masons?
(10:33):
We won't do any brickwork, butwe like your, we like the
organization that you've got, welike your guild structure, we
like the discipline that youhave, and we like also, and most
importantly, the way you helpeach other.
So, my stonemason brother wouldnever leave his other brother's
family in dire straits if thatbrother fell or what have you,
(10:55):
or was unable to work.
They would help him out.
So that was what...
It was also very attractive andthere was also a sort of a
morality of behavior standards.
Like if you were going to goclimbing up on top of the
cathedral in Cologne, youprobably weren't going to be
going up there drunk and yourbrothers would make sure that
you wouldn't do that type ofthing.
Yeah.
So that was crudely stated, uh,some of the brotherhood and then
(11:18):
people discovered, well, maybewe can improve ourselves,
improve our lives and improveour communities through this
organization.
And it became, uh, widespread.
And first in the UK, some peoplesay in Scotland is where it
started, and spread to London,and it's in the 1700s where we
see masonry, it spread to thecontinent, it went all over the
(11:39):
place in Europe as a partially,uh, not religious, but partially
something that was recognized indeity.
But not requiring you belong toany particular religion, et
cetera, and so forth, becausethe key thing was to have peace
and harmony.
Work together.
Let's make progress.
Let's not fight each other.
So that was kind of like thebasis for it.
(12:01):
And it's long since, of course,matured and ripened into a
global organization withmillions of people, members
around the world.
Is it a secret society?
No, it is a society that has itssecrets.
I compare that to a footballteam.
So we got a huddle.
They're not gonna tell you whatthe play is, but they come out
and do the play.
Mm-hmm.
And so it's, is that a secretsociety?
(12:23):
I don't think so, but it's, it'sa society that has their own
secrets, their own way that theydo things that they present to
the world.
And so what Masonry was, istrying to do and continues to
try to do, is to teach us to bebetter people.
and be more, a little bit moretolerant, a little bit more, uh,
leaning towards justice.
and always leaning towardstruth.
(12:45):
Now, in the early stages of thesettling of Texas, there were a
lot of masons involved and theycreated the public school
system.
The way they did this was theywould build a structure in town
that would be the schoolhouse orthe community center and
upstairs they would have theirMasonic meeting room.
You saw an example here of whata Masonic meeting room looked
(13:09):
like.
And that was very typical.
What, where did that come from?
After the Civil War, there were300 miles of railroad track in
the state of Texas.
They connected Columbia over inan almost straight line to the
Louisiana network, which wasmore built out.
And one line dropped straightdown to a place called
Galveston.
(13:29):
And that junction point, wherethe T was formed, is now called
Houston.
So they adopted the railroad.
I believe I'm calling thiscorrectly as the motto of
Houston.
So when you go to Minute MaidPark, that's when the little
train goes across.
It was 1847.
The first track was laid therein 1849.
So they were, they were thinkingahead.
Wow.
(13:49):
But Houston was a very safeplace.
It was out in the bayous.
It was like, uh, you know,Louisiana.
You couldn't get, couldn't getaround there if you didn't know
where you were going.
Yeah.
And you couldn't get over landhere because it was impassable.
There were no roads.
So you had water, and then afterwater came trains.
So after the Civil War, 600miles in 1865 became 30, 000
(14:11):
miles.
By 1890, and all of those werebranching out of Galveston and
cross connecting to get theproducts to market here or to
New Orleans.
Because that's where the, that'swhere the sales were.
And every place that trainstopped, bang, a little town
popped up.
A little town popped up.
The Europeans cleared outCentral Europe to, uh, bringing
people over here who wanted tostart a new life, a new and
(14:33):
better life, from all over theplace.
All religions, all of them.
You name it.
They came into Texas.
Which is why Galveston still hasnumber two immigration, the
number two immigration point inthe United States, is yet to be
surpassed, even though EllisIsland has been around for a
long time, and that's where allmy family came in, was Ellis or
walked across the border fromCanada.
(14:54):
Yeah, yeah.
So, uh, that was, uh, that wasjust the amazing thing about
Texas.
And when you Masons would gettogether and say, let's
organize, let's build ourselvesa community center, a
schoolhouse, etc.
And that's how it went.
Someone's having trouble, let'shelp them.
A family's in trouble, let'shelp them.
So, so, uh, just, I wanted toask.
So that's why, when you see inthese older, small towns, you,
(15:16):
you could drive through almostany of them, you have all the
older churches, and then on mostof them, you'll have a Masonic
Lodge.
Yes.
And many of these older, smalltowns, and I know, like myself,
I'll drive through these littletowns and see it, and I'm like,
I wonder, what were they doingin that Masonic Lodge?
Yeah.
You know, 150 years ago.
Yeah.
Same thing we're doing today.
And it's basically, what can wedo to help society?
(15:37):
What can we do to help eachother?
Our families and our society.
How can we make things better?
And, of course, with socialsecurity, things changed
dramatically in the 30s and 40sbecause now the government was
going to take care of us.
Prior to that, there were nosystems.
It was like, uh, oh boy.
You know, what do you got?
So, becoming a Mason was a veryimportant Social Security, if
(16:00):
you want to think of it thatway, at that time.
And then, there are many otherappendant bodies in masonry.
We have groups for the women andmen called Eastern Star.
We have Demolay for the boys,Rainbow Girls for the young
ladies.
Uh, there's Scottish Rite, YorkRite, the Shrine.
When I was a kid, we used to goto the Shrine Circus up in
(16:22):
Michigan.
And the big movie house was theShrine Temple.
And it was really, you know,beautiful old buildings.
That was the culture back then.
That was the way it was.
So could you tell me thedifference, um, I have so many
questions about it, but couldyou tell me the difference
between Scottish Rite, Masonry,Shrine, Shriners, and could you
break those differences down?
Well, each one, each one worksunder the same general
(16:43):
principle.
The Shriners are very heavilyinto the hospitals, okay, as is
the Scottish Rite.
We have gigantic hospitals.
In Dallas, for example, andtreats kids basically for very
little to free.
And the Shriners are very biginto burn centers.
And, uh, Children's Hospital ishere.
But basically it's, they gettogether in a little bit
(17:05):
different costume.
So a Shriner, you always know,has a fez on.
And they're trying to, uh, besort of illustrative of, of
somebody who went to Arabia manyyears ago.
And it's a wonderfulorganization.
It's very fraternal.
They have a lot of fun doingthat.
The Scottish Rite is more likea, a studium.
We, we study things in theliterature and how to be, learn
(17:29):
how to be a little bit betterpeople.
And the York Rite is another oneof the branches, also a very
exquisite, very fraternalorganization.
And they are, uh, they are very,uh, much into, and I'm, I'm not
a member of the York Rites, butI can say from what I know of
them and see of them, they'realso very much into many of the
social, Support systems that wehave, uh, helping people with
(17:52):
the medical problems, eyes, etcetera and so forth.
But they're all basically slightvariations off the theme of, we
start out with a masonry and wehave these different directions
that we can grow, if you will,limbs of the tree.
But the trunk of the tree is theBlue Lodge.
Interesting.
Interesting.
That's great.
That answers it.
Well, so yeah, any of thosebranches, they all have the same
(18:14):
tenets.
One thing that struck me, um,and I didn't know before you
gave me the tour, um, was thatyou, you had to believe in some
higher power, some higherentity.
And on one of the, I don't knowwhat you call it, altars, I
guess, I don't know what youcall it, but there's a Bible, a
Torah, and a Quran all sittingthere.
And I think that's one thing, I,I definitely didn't know, so I
know a lot of viewers andlisteners probably didn't know
(18:36):
that.
They may have thought of it as aChristian organization or...
Something of that sort.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
But they accept all that'sright.
you know, and it's, it's yourdeity.
the person that you worship.
So we don't require you tell usanything about it.
It's just, it's your, it'sbetween you and your deity.
Mm-hmm.
And why, why is that?
Because maybe there's a chanceyou might learn something Yeah.
(18:58):
Right.
Maybe an outside chance.
But anyway, that's what it'sabout.
It, uh, we are all still veryfrail humans, and we all make
mistakes and what have you, butMasonry gives us a little bit of
a guiding light.
Well, come on back this way.
Mm-hmm.
that's, that's what it is in, ina nutshell.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, I know you hear about a lotof the Amer, the founders of
America being Masons mm-hmm.
and even a lot of the foundersof Texas.
(19:20):
Right.
So who are some of the Texas,uh, the people, people that we,
we may have read about in thehistory books that were Masons?
Well, Stephen Austin, uh, Thepeople who basically engineered
Texas, uh, the, uh, uh, DavyCrockett, Jim Bowie, all those
guys were masons.
And I think the, uh, uh, Lamar,that was, uh, uh, undescribably
(19:46):
important for the educationsystem here in Texas.
The, uh, uh, I think the HarryTruman, Andrew Jackson.
All these, uh, I think 16 of ourpresidents, in fact, were
Masons.
16 of the, 40, 4 right, 47 rightnow I think you're at.
I might be in trouble with thatnumber, but something like that.
(20:07):
We'll fact check it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
I like that.
Yeah.
They have that on TV verified.
Right.
But anyway, there were quite afew, uh, Gerald Ford I think was
the last, uh, Masonic, or lastpresident, who was also a Mason.
That's the difference betweenthat and saying there was a
Masonic president.
There was a president who was aMason.
And so that has been a veryimportant, uh, uh, cultural and
(20:32):
intellectual position in thiscountry for a long time.
But it's like anything else.
It's, it requires continualinterest and continual diligence
to grow.
And I think right now oursociety is in a turning point.
You know, everybody's, everygeneration has the same...
turning, if you want to call itthat.
(20:53):
But things are different nowbecause we got lots of toys and
tools that we didn't have many,many years ago.
I think I read someplace thatkids are spending 40 hours a
week on their phones now.
At least.
At least, right?
That's pretty interesting.
So, what do you need to go to alodge for?
It's all on the phone, you know?
Right.
You're right.
So, we'll just have to see whathappens.
Yeah.
I think basically the philosophyis, is universal and it's, it's
(21:17):
a very, very old philosophy.
We've invented nothing new here.
We've just invented a way toexpress it that's different than
others.
And that's it.
And it's called masonry.
So the, um, I guess masonry,which you've explained how it
started, that was in the 18thcentury, the 1700s or earlier?
Yeah, well the official, what wenow call masonry.
But it grew out of the stonemasons and people argue, well it
(21:39):
could have been many, manyhundreds of years before that.
And there's some proofs here,but some proofs there.
I think that the key point is,it certainly is 250 years old.
So that we know.
So then they make their way intoTexas.
And you've kind of, you've donea great job describing how Texas
grew with the railroads and theengineering of the railroads.
Um, where was the first Masonic,I guess, headquarters in Texas?
(22:03):
Ooh, that's a good question.
It was actually in a little tinytown called Brazoria.
Uh huh.
Which is on the Brazos River,which is just upstream from West
Columbia.
And Brazoria, there was an oaktree over there.
Called, it was in a park wherefive guys got together.
And they said, you know, let's,we're all Masons.
Let's bring Masonry to Texas.
(22:23):
So they first appealed to theMasons in Mexico.
One of them, actually a ScottishRite Mason by the name of Santa
Anna, wound up throwing Austinin the clinker for a number of
months because they didn't wantto mess with his stuff or
something like that.
But long story short.
(22:44):
They finally wound up, uh,getting masonry into Texas by
going to Louisiana and gettingthe head mason in Louisiana to
sign their charter.
It was brought back to Texas inthe saddlebags of one of the
people during the battle at SanJacinto.
It was actually the charter toform masonry in Texas was...
(23:09):
to renew it because the one thathad formed in Brazoria, the, uh,
Santa Ana's generals burnedbrazoria to the ground,
including that lodge.
Oh, okay.
Those members fled to Houston.
Mm-hmm.
or what is now Houston.
They went off into the bayouthere, if you will.
Mm-hmm.
and, uh, wound up then, uh,calling the Holland Lodge,
number one.
(23:29):
Mm-hmm.
which is now in Houston, butactually started in Brazoria.
Gotcha.
And then after that, the numbertwo was in Milan Nacodoches.
And we have a chair from there,sitting in the cabinet, and
three, four, and five was WestColumbia, St.
John's, which would have beenthree, but they went, they went
dark for a while, as they callit, because of the disruption
(23:51):
during the, uh, revolution, andthen, and the Texas, uh,
Mexican, or the U.
S.
Mexican War, there was moredisillusion, stuff got very
confused, and what have you, butthe, uh, bottom line is that,
Those are the first lodges inHarmony, which lives in this
building now, was number six.
And we're up, I think we're over1, 400 in the state now, so.
(24:13):
And some, not all of them areactive, but there's been that
number, including TranquilityLodge, which is actually based
on the moon.
And the Masonic flag was plantedthere by Aldrich on the moon.
Really?
Oh yeah.
Oh my gosh.
No wonder.
So maybe we own the moon too.
Yeah.
Maybe not.
No wonder there are so manyconspiracy theories about Masons
(24:33):
all over the place and moviesmade about it.
That's funny.
Well, it makes for interestingstuff because it's supposed to
be mysterious, which it is not.
I like that.
I like that mysterious, thatshroud of mystery around it,
though.
Yeah, I mean, it's nice.
Who wants just regular, normalstuff?
Yeah.
It's gotta have some, gotta havesome slant to it, maybe, yeah.
Well, speaking of not normal,let's transition a little bit
(24:55):
into Galveston, and why masonryand Galveston, and the
origination of masonry.
Very good question.
Well, there's a fellow namedSamuel May Williams, and I call
him the Engineer of Texas.
And he actually was Stephen F.
Austin's secretary.
And he's the one who drew up allthe charters, etc.
Bilingual, he was, he wasabsolutely proficient in Spanish
(25:17):
and English.
So he hand wrote 300 of these,one in Spanish, one in English.
And he was a very dedicatedmason.
And he created so much, uh, heand his partner, they had the
steamboat up and down the BrazosRiver that was collecting
cotton.
And brought the...
Uh, basically, uh, Houston'stroops during the runaway scrape
(25:40):
across the Brazos to get themaway from the Mexican army, and
et cetera and so forth.
He designed and laid outGalveston.
He founded the Harmony Lodgehere in Galveston.
And so this was part of thereason that was quite
interesting.
We also then fast forward, uh,to the Civil War.
By then there was a strongpopulation here, it may have
(26:02):
been 10, 000 or something likethat in Galveston around the
Civil War time.
But this was a very importanttrading point because of the
cotton being grown along theBrazos.
And that cotton was brought toGalveston down the river
because, as I said, you couldn'tgo across land.
There was only one railroadtrain that was built in the
1840s or thereabouts.
(26:24):
But there was quite an avidriver traffic.
Also through Houston.
And they brought the ships wouldcome down to Galveston, they
would be loaded onto ships likethe Elissa and taken over to
England and elsewhere as aproduct to be sold.
And so this then created a veryinteresting situation during the
(26:46):
Civil War.
So in 1862, in September, theUnion Navy invaded Galveston to
blockade it.
And the story, of course, goesthat there was a, the January
1st.
It was a sudden attack ofGeneral Magruder and his troops,
and, uh, they caught the Unionforces, uh, and, uh, routed the
(27:07):
Navy by, with cotton cladsteamers, those are paddle
wheelers with cotton bales onthem, and after that, they
boarded one of the ships calledthe Harriet Lane, and killed the
captain and his first mate, andthat was a fellow named
Wainwright, and his first matewas Lee, and the ship's doctor
asked, uh, uh, the, uh, Theywanted to the ship to please
(27:29):
give these guys a Masonicburial.
So they came to Philip C.
Tucker, who was the mayor at thetime, and also the head of
Harmony Lodge, and after alittle bit of hither and thon,
and quite a bit in fact, theywound up giving them a Masonic
funeral, which was accompanyingthe bodies to the graves with
both Union and Confederatetroops.
and sailors in the entourage.
(27:51):
And so that was one of thethings that happened.
After, uh, that, Philip C.
Tucker was still very active,and he formed the Scottish Rite
in Galveston.
So that was 1867, when thisfirst started.
And around 1882, there was amagnificent Masonic temple built
(28:12):
in what is now the parking loton Post Office and 21st Street.
And they had a tremendousturnout.
It opened officially in 1884 andthere were electric lines, wires
here.
There was electricity inGalveston, etc.
There was a cotton exchange thatwas built.
Very, very important becauseafter the Civil War, things
changed radically, of course.
(28:33):
Even, they, I believe that thefutures, Trade on the stock
market was created out of cottonbecause you bet that you're
gonna grow a good crop of cottonand that would be your futures
market.
So they had a whole industry offactors and, uh, people who are
involved in the cotton trade upuntil I believe the 1930s.
(28:53):
It was very, very powerful here.
The cotton exchange, which isbeing rebuilt here is another
example of an art deco buildingfrom that time frame.
And so all of this was beingrebuilt and these guys were all
masons.
A lot of them in this cottonexchange board, for example, are
also masons.
A little bit of research on thatshowed, yeah, there's quite a
bit to learn still, but that'skind of the basic line.
(29:14):
And the interesting thing wasthat masonry was, again, a self
help organization, and it wasalso a kind of a social
organization, which is whyentertainment megaplexes made so
much sense, and why having, uh,Uh, place to go during the week
to do business outside your shopwas important or, you know, just
(29:35):
come in and just socialize withthe guys downtown, as it were.
So all these things were part ofmasonry in Galveston.
And then, uh, if we look at,Harmony Lodge actually moved
into 22nd Street after they leftthe big Masonic building.
Which eventually had to be torndown because it had burned too
(29:55):
many times.
They moved into Henry Cohen, uh,Synagogue Center, which had, uh,
Jewish folks, I guess, that madethat available or had moved out
or something of that nature.
Uh, I should know that history alittle better.
But anyway, that building waswhere the Masons were for many
years, and eventually they said,well, let's just move back into
the Scottish Rite Temple.
(30:16):
So they sold their interest inthat building and came back
here.
When you drive down 22nd Streetacross from the Baptist Church,
you see the old Cohen building,which is now privately owned,
but the Masonic Square andcompasses are above the door in
the temple.
So, that's a little bit ofhistory there.
And then, uh, we had anotherMasonic group here, and they
(30:37):
decided to build their own lodgeon 25th Street, Tucker.
So it's a fine group, too.
And those are the two Masonicbodies on the island right now,
besides the shrine, which isalso here.
And we have a lot of York Ritemembers in both, all these
organizations.
Yeah.
They're throughout.
A lot of guys belong to a lot oforganizations.
So...
And our most recent one...
is the Battleship Texas.
(30:58):
Oh, really?
That Lodge 188 number 838.
It's trying to raise funds tohelp pay for and preserve the
Battleship Texas.
So that's also a Masonic group.
It's called Gunsite because it'sthe lodge that was on the
Battleship Texas.
It's called the Gunsite Lodge.
So, so intertwine in historyevery way, shape, and form.
Yep.
And, and American history, Texashistory.
(31:19):
Just part of it, part of it,that's right.
So, you know, you, you talkedabout, um, doing business even
outside of their own officeswhere they would, you know,
probably meet in a hall similarto this one, a library just like
this one in the variousbuildings they had here in
Galveston and, and made deals.
And I guess that's, that's oneof the things I like to talk
about is like, you don't reallymake the deals at the office or
(31:41):
over the phone.
It's.
It's face to face and, you know,coming from a sales background,
it's, you're, you're workingwith these guys, uh, face to
face.
this building and the previousbuildings would have been the
perfect place to do that withsomebody you had camaraderie
with and it's something incommon with.
And back then a handshake meantsomething.
It really was your word.
(32:02):
And if you turned against yourword, you would probably have a
very difficult time proceeding.
Better just to leave town, typeof thing.
That's true.
You think about the socialstructure of that, right?
Absolutely.
I mean, the honesty, the truth,the um, integrity, right?
Um, you actually had an answerfor what you were doing, one way
(32:23):
or the other.
You were responsible, for it.
And, not that it's gone away,but I think that the emphasis is
spun differently.
It was more black and white backthen, now it's kind of gray in
many areas.
But nevertheless, your word is,was your patent.
That was it, you know, you couldbe trusted or not trusted.
(32:46):
So could you tell us about thebuilding that was here before
this building, and then a littlebit about this one?
Well, this previous building wasactually called Harmony Hall.
And it was a, it was a financialinvestment by the Jewish members
of Harmony Lodge.
And the idea there was we need away to raise money to help pay
(33:07):
for all the charitable work thatwe are doing.
And not only supporting thewidows and orphans, but school
children, orphanages, etc, etc.
And so this is what Harmony Hallwas used for.
It was an entertainmentmegaplex.
And what do we mean by that?
Back then, entertainmentmegaplexes, you had music, you
had dances, you had theater, youhad a wonderful social place
(33:29):
where the guys could come duringthe week.
And on the weekend, the ladiesand kids and the whole family
come down and do nice things.
It was a social meeting place,and it was a cultural center as
well.
So the Jewish people could usethe building for whatever they
were doing as well.
It was open basically to thepublic, just as we are now.
(33:50):
And you could rent it just as wedo now.
And so that was that buildingdesigned by Nicholas Clayton.
Now, Nicholas Clayton is abeautiful, beautiful...
Architectural masterpiececreator.
And if you look at the mostbeautiful old buildings in
Galveston, they're all Victorianand they're Nicholas Clayton.
From Bishop's Palace, uh, myfavorite one actually is the
(34:15):
Trueheart Adrianza building.
22nd?
Yeah.
Between Strand and Mechanic.
They were both masons andAdrianza was a...
Master Mason, who was in chargeof the St.
John's Lodge in West Columbia,of which I was a Mason, a member
and still am.
And so this was West Columbia.
Well, guess what that meant?
He was a trained guy.
(34:36):
He wanted to, he was the guy whowas pushing to build railroad
tracks.
Uhhuh.
And so, interestingly enough, hebuilds a real estate office
right next to Stuart T.
What a coincidence.
What a coincidence.
and Stewart Title's, of course,the biggest title company in the
country.
So, you know, this is all cameoutta Galveston.
Mm-hmm.
little stuff there.
And that, that was the, uh, thetype of architecture at that
(34:57):
time.
I think the great storm probablycaused everything to go topsy
turvy here in town.
And obviously, and then they'dbeen used to plagues and things
of that nature, but having thewhole town leveled, that was
just beyond.
So probably the, uh, and I saythis with some apprehension
(35:17):
because I'm not sure it seemedremotely true.
But probably there was aninterest in, let's do something
different.
Let's start looking towards thefuture.
Let's go Art Deco.
And quite interestingly, inEurope, I worked for some years
in Leipzig, which was acompletely beautiful Art Deco
combination between Art Deco andVictorian architecture.
(35:39):
Just beautiful.
Just like downtown Galveston,only of course much bigger.
But the idea was that this, Thisseems to just fit perfectly.
So when you look around Gauss,this is like a mini version of
Leipzig, which is quite a, quitea fantastic town.
So anyway, this was the type ofchange that went into the world
(36:02):
after the great storm.
This, the Harmony Hall stood.
Until, as we mentioned a littlebit earlier, the tragic fire in
1928, which was front page newsand brought all the businessmen
running out of their shops hereto come down and try and help
save whatever they could fromHarmony Hall because it was
(36:22):
going up in flames.
And it was somebody actuallycame in during lunch and said,
Hey man, the building's on fireupstairs.
So what?
Yeah, and sure enough, thetheater was on fire.
How it started, we don't know.
They had cellulose acetate filmand people smoked.
Yeah, I don't know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's all special.
But the point being that theylost the building and they took
(36:45):
a look at trying to rebuild itand they said it's too far gone.
It's just and we don't want toever have that problem again of
the building catching on fire.
So they hired this fellow Finn,Albert Finn, and he came in and
rebuilt the story.
structure into what we now have,which has no flammable material
(37:06):
in the framing.
It can't burn.
He also was told it wanted to behurricane proof.
So they put in exquisite glassthat they brought in from Europe
that actually is the technologyof how to make that glass is
currently lost.
We hope someday we might be ableto resurrect it, but that's
going to take some research.
And then we also want to make itflood proof.
(37:26):
So he sent his engineers out tofind out.
How, what's the worst flood theyhad on record?
We're going to build it just alittle bit higher than that.
And I'll be, during HurricaneIke, even after the island had
been razed, we still had astreak that just missed going
into the building here.
Just missed it, so.
Finn did very well indeed.
He was also a 32nd degreeScottish Rite Mason.
(37:48):
And the man who was the generalcontractor here, M.
C.
Bowden, he was also a 32nddegree Scottish Rite Mason.
Bowden was made a 32nd degreeMason.
Here in Galveston, the class of1907, and considering that was
really quite new back then, hewas one of the early founders.
His son left us his father'smagazine.
(38:11):
They had a dedication magazinethey put out, which had, went
into exquisite detail oneverything.
Almost how many nuts and boltsare in the place.
Oh, wow.
Oh, I mean, it was just, and allthe Masonic organizations, etc.,
etc.
It was really detailed.
And, uh, so his son gave us hisdad's copy.
It's dog eared, it's got coffeestains on it, etc., etc.
(38:33):
And I had it copied.
Just exactly like that.
Beautiful copy of the originalbrochure, which they actually
printed in this building.
Because they had their ownlittle printing room upstairs on
the third floor.
So, and we continue to discoverthings.
We spent, uh, one of, one of theguys has spent, uh, over a
thousand hours, three years, tobe, over three years, to go
(38:56):
through the vault and organizestuff.
And it's amazing.
We found all the details of M.
C.
Bowdoin's reconstruction.
How much he paid, whose nameswere there chipping the, uh,
mortar off the bricks that theywound up reusing, etc.
It's just unbelievable details.
Yeah.
Stuff you, uh, and we, that'sall beautifully organized in
there, so that's another part ofthe story.
(39:17):
Now, the architect for thisbuilding was also famous for
something else, wasn't he?
Well, he did a lot of stuff inHouston particularly and around
Texas, but Finn's current andmost famous monument is the San
Jacinto Monument.
And that stands there, uh, Outin Laporte, out at the
battleground.
I call it Laporte because that'swhere, uh, we had a plant that I
(39:39):
worked at as well.
But that's, it's quite aremarkable piece of
architecture.
I believe it is or was one ofthe tallest structures, uh,
obelisks of its type.
And, uh, they still be.
But quite a, quite an impressivepiece of work.
Art Deco all the way.
And the interesting question is,well, how do you preserve all
that stuff?
So we're starting to learn howto do that and finding companies
(40:02):
that know how to do that.
It's quite a chore, quite achore.
So how quickly was this buildingrebuilt after that fire?
Well, the, Finn wrote a letterthe week after the fire, which
would have been early March, andhe suggested, well, I'd be glad
to design a building for you.
That contract was let in April.
By the time they got everythingmobilized and started, the
(40:24):
construction was June, the lastweek of June in 1928.
This building was opened inNovember of 1929.
In fact, a week after the stockmarket crashed.
So, the old building wasdemolished, taken apart,
salvaged what could be salvaged.
The new building was prepared,all steel and concrete framing,
(40:46):
and built.
It opened for business with itsown magnificent vaudeville
theater in November 1929.
That the vaudeville theater thatwe looked at a little bit
earlier is really a masterpiece.
It is almost one of a kind andthe quality of the scenery in
there is excellent.
We know this from one of thenation's leading experts in
(41:08):
these type of theaters and whocame here and we spent a week in
January hauling drops up anddown and she inspected them and
Here's what needs to be done toeach one of these.
And so, we have a clear pathforward.
We have several we must replaceright away.
So, we're hoping that we can getGTAP to collect some funds to
help restore the scenery upthere.
(41:30):
Make sure that our grandkids,grandkids get to see it too.
Because it is amazing.
Absolutely amazing.
And, uh, That is part of the,uh, part of the history of what
they put in here.
The ballroom is, acoustics are,you noticed it when you walked
in.
Yes, I did.
The acoustics are absolutelyoutstanding.
We had professional musicianscome in here and compliment the
(41:51):
quality of the acoustics thereand also in the theater.
If you can project your voice alittle bit, you don't even need
a microphone in the theater.
Yeah.
If you mumble, of course.
But if you, a little bit forwardthere, it's, cause they didn't
have it back then.
Mm.
So.
They had everything set up sothat the acoustics were
wonderful.
We have in the theater abeautiful old 1250 piece pipe
(42:13):
organ from Pilcher, a company inLouisville, Kentucky.
And that's one of the thingsthat we're dedicated to get
restored.
I'd love to have a, uh, somebodyplaying Toccata and Fugue in D
minor and having a great scenemaybe of...
One of the scenes is hell andanother one is volcanoes going
off and stuff like that.
We could, we could createscenery to accompany that music
(42:36):
very nicely.
And that would be a beautifulgoal for the future.
That is great.
This is all things that we hopeto be able to raise funds
through grants and generousdonations in the future.
I'm hoping that we can get to apoint where we can say, Okay,
uh, we would love to call thisthe Jones family scene.
And we're going to play this inthe Wyatt Family Auditorium, and
(42:59):
that's inside the, uh, John DoeScottish Rite Masonic Temple in
Galveston.
And we use these to gain, toperhaps raise some funds to keep
this building going, becausethat's what it's going to take.
And get some grants too, sowe're hard at work at that.
Yeah.
And if people wish to, we have awebsite called the Galveston
Theatre and Arts Partnership.
(43:20):
Or galtap.
org that they can go to anddonate.
And come on down, we're veryinterested in having people get
involved in what we're doing.
Yeah.
So, you have a wonderfulopportunity to...
Show off a beautiful buildingand we throw tours in and do
stuff like that.
Well, you're the best tour guidefor this place anyway, I think.
I mean, I've gone on two tourshere and it's fascinating every
(43:42):
time.
Well, it's, it's a labor oflove.
It's the way it is.
And it's this and the ship, soit's a couple of really nice
things that you get to do inGalveston.
And there are many more likethis.
All kinds of opportunities herein Galveston to get involved.
You don't have to just sit thereand mess with your cell phone.
That's for sure.
That is for sure.
But if you are messing with yourcell phone, just go to Galveston
(44:02):
Scripton on Instagram and checkit out.
Absolutely.
Wonderful.
Um, so, I guess before we wrapit up here, what are some of
your favorite aspects ofGalveston history, whether they
relate to masonry or not?
I think the, the fact that thistown as Izola Collins So
dramatically emphasized in her,in her orchestration of it is
(44:26):
Galson somehow survives.
It makes it through, you nameit.
And the attitude of the peopleis heartwarming and friendly.
This is a very nice place to be.
And it's helping each other.
And it's, it's a sort of acommunity spirit that is really
very enjoyable.
So, nice, relaxed, island typestuff.
(44:50):
When I first heard, well, Idon't want to go off the island.
I said, what's the matter withyou, man?
Houston's right, I believe thatnow.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
And it's, it's just a gentle,quiet place where you can do,
you name it.
And you can, we have atremendous art community here.
We have a, I think a very, veryliberal, but very conservative
(45:14):
elements, both of which seem toget along with each other.
Uh, it offers an awful lot forsuch a small place, and I think
it's growing.
That's one of my favoritethings, too, is you get along
with everybody, no matter what.
Yeah.
Like, no matter what theybelieve in, it's like you see
them out and about all the time,and it's like, well, you can be,
everyone's friendly.
Yeah, that's right.
Everyone's nice, you know, so.
(45:35):
And that's, that's, that's oneof the things that are truly
remarkably enjoyable aboutGalveston.
And also, I think the...
The sense that we are movingforward, perhaps some people
think it's too fast to clip.
I don't know, that's, that's notmy judgment call, but there is
progress here.
But I'm hoping that we can makepart of that progress a
(45:55):
recollection and restoration ofour past.
Because it blends in so wellwhen you're able to come into a
town and look at, wow, isn'tthat great?
You know, like losing theBalinese ballroom.
Oh, what a loss.
It was just so sad to see thatpiled up on the, piled up on the
seawall, you know, that's thekind of thing that once it's
gone, it's gone.
(46:15):
And so working to preserve whatwe have here is so important.
Yeah.
And I think that there's astrong sense of that and it's
spreading through all thegenerations on the island.
What, what do you hope to see inthe next, um, let's say 50 years
in Galveston?
What do you hope to see?
Well, I expect that Galveston isprobably going to become, uh,
very, continue to grow as a, uh,uh, seafaring port.
(46:40):
I think there's going to be atremendous interest in the
restoration of things gone past.
We may, who knows, we may have abattleship sitting here that
people can look at, and cruiseliners.
Maybe Alyssa's going to havesome pals with her, too.
I hope so.
All kinds of stuff.
Railroad museum.
Wouldn't that be cool to have arailroad run back up to Houston?
That would be great.
Nothing against I 45, butreally.
(47:02):
But a speed rail would be nice.
Yes, wouldn't that be nice,indeed.
And, uh, who knows, by thenmaybe we don't even travel on
land, we'll be up in the air.
So, we may have an airbornetrain going in.
But these things are all part ofit.
I think there's probably goingto be a continued pressure to
make this place as touristfriendly as possible.
So, we may see parts of the towndisappearing, the old wooden
(47:24):
sections disappearing and maybesome of the old, who knows
whatever, disappearing in placeof new and more modern things.
That's inevitably going tohappen.
It's just going to happen.
So, and, but I hope that thepeople continue to remember
where they came from andpreserve those elements that are
living proof of it.
(47:45):
To me, that's what is going to,going to make the difference out
there.
Did they think about that 50years ago?
I think so, because that's whenthey started restoring the
island.
In fact, well, in the 70s.
I came down here in 77, Ibelieve it was, and stayed at
the Flagship Hotel.
And that was quite a fancy placeback then.
(48:07):
And I came downtown to lookaround, and it was sort of like,
you've got to leave before 9.
30 because of police curfewdowntown.
What a change that's done.
Yeah, now, yeah, now you don'tgo out before 9 30.
That's right.
And you better not leave untilthen.
Yeah.
So these, these are all thingsthat are changing and it becomes
more open and more, uh,available.
(48:29):
I think the East end is justlike astounding.
You drive around there and lookat it.
My goodness.
Uh, one of the things that we doneed to do here is we've got to
figure out a way to protectourselves from the elements.
And of course, my wife's Dutch.
So in her family, we're allcivil engineers.
They built dikes and stuff likethat.
there's an obvious solution, butI don't think it's very popular.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(48:49):
I don't think so either.
Yeah.
Well, Roy, thank you so much forthe tour today.
Um, we're going to put, we'llhave a link in the description
for that tour.
Um, thank you so much for thisamazing interview.
Very well spoken.
You were the best tour guide andrepresentative for Galveston.
I think it's, it's great.
Well, thank you very much.
It's a real pleasure and realdelight to welcome you into the
(49:10):
building and Give you a tour andshow you what we got.
Absolutely.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Appreciate it.
J.R. (49:16):
Thank you so much for joining us on Galveston
Unscripted.
I really hope you enjoyed thisepisode.
If you did, please let us know.
We are on all social media,Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, you
name it.
Go search us, go find us, leaveus a rating, leave us a review
if you're listening on Spotifyor Apple, YouTube, whatever.
Don't forget to go check out theentire video tour.
(49:38):
of the Scottish Rite Templeright here in Galveston.
Thanks for watching.
Thanks for listening.
And we'll see you next time onGalveston Unscripted.
I didn't know before you gave me the tour was that
(00:02):
you, you had to believe in somehigher power, some higher
entity.
I have always heard it's asecret society.
I have no idea really whatmasons do so you could trust
people with your life and yourmoney to build things because
they had proven to you that theyknew these.
And this was considered to beabsolutely top secret.
(00:22):
To be able to identify yourselflike that.
That was their version of apassport.
Because we didn't have passportsback then.
J.R. (00:28):
Welcome to Galveston Unscripted.
I have a couple great things foryou today.
have you ever passed by 22ndchurch street and wondered what
that beautiful 1929 Art Decobuilding is doing there?
When this episode We have aconversation with Roy DeGessaro.
we dive into the history ofFreemasonry and Freemasonry in
Texas and Galveston.
In association with thisepisode, we also have a video
(00:51):
walkthrough tour of the ScottishRite Roy and I recorded this
episode on location inside theScottish Rite, right after we
finished our video walkthroughtour.
If you haven't yet, go check outthat tour on our YouTube
channel.
We explore the entire building,including the lodge room, the
library, and the 1929 vaudevilletheater.
(01:11):
Only a few theaters of thisstyle are still existing today.
And a special thank you to BeckyMajor for setting this tour and
interview up.
We really appreciate it.
Wherever you are watching orlistening to Galveston
Unscripted...
Please make sure to subscribe,like, give us a rating, give us
a review, let us know how we'redoing, let us know what you want
to see in the future.
Follow us on Facebook,Instagram, TikTok, we are
(01:33):
everywhere.
Now let's dive right into thisepisode with Roy DeGessereau,
discussing the history ofFreemasonry and Freemasonry in
Texas and Galveston, stemmingall the way back to 1867, right
here on our island.
C0008_1 (01:49):
First of all, thank you so much for letting me come into
the Scottish Rite Temple here inGalveston and come explore it
today.
It was absolutely fascinating tosee the tour.
The tour will be in a separatevideo people can go and watch
and experience what it's likehere.
But yeah, thank you so much.
I really appreciate it.
Could you tell us a little bitabout yourself?
And, you know,, a little selfintroduction.
(02:10):
Alright, well, very good.
Actually, I was born in...
The Republic of Texas, Cheyenne,Wyoming, but back in 1840, I was
told that was part of theRepublic of Texas, so, and I've
seen some maps that'll attest tothat, but grew up in Michigan
and spent most of my life eitherin Europe or Texas after that,
(02:33):
uh, worked for quite some timein, uh, Northern Europe and, uh,
met my wife over there and wemoved, uh, To the states in 1980
and worked out of Freeport forDow Chemical and did quite a bit
of a global travel over theyears.
Always in the environmentalbusiness, we sort of were
(02:55):
learning how to do these thingsback in the 70s and 80s.
Yeah.
How to, how to protect theenvironment.
So that was, that was my majorcareer.
And then afterwards, I came downto this area to help lead a
project.
to restructure a plant site thatDow had bought over in Texas
City.
And really it was quite simple.
(03:18):
We were living in Katy at thetime.
And it was, the drive was ofcourse impossible from Katy to
Texas City.
So we eventually wound up movingto Galveston, which turned out
to be just a wonderful,wonderful decision.
Prior to that, we had beenliving in West Columbia.
And it was there that I startedto get the appreciation for the
history of Texas.
Because West Columbia was thefirst capital.
(03:40):
And, uh, Varner Hog Plantation,et cetera, and East Columbia,
and all of that became quite,quite interesting.
It was there also that I becamea Mason.
the reason was, uh, because I'dbeen curious as to what Masonry
was all about, and never reallyunderstood it, but I got to
learn it real quick.
Yeah.
So, and then after that wemoved, uh, from West Columbia to
(04:02):
Katy and from Katy to Galveston.
And this has, uh, been our homefor the last 20 years.
So it's always been a delightfulpleasure to learn more and more
about it.
I'm heavily involved in the tallship, Alyssa, and with GHF,
which is an absolutely wonderfulorganization.
And we've got a tremendoussailing ship.
So if we have any youthlistening to this, youth is
(04:22):
anybody under the age of, youname it, as you can see, we
welcome you to come on down andjoin the crew.
But you gotta hurry, we've onlygot a couple more slots left
open.
Come on down.
We need we need all the crew.
We can get our hands on and it'sa wonderful experience.
So back about five years ago,the secretary of the Scottish
(04:42):
right here in Galveston wasabout ready to retire.
And so I was brought in to justhelp do some stuff and that
helped do some stuff all of asudden turned into your it.
So here we are.
And we've gone through, uh, ofcourse, the number of changes
that society went through, butwe, I think, went through COVID.
with mercifully few problems inour organization or amongst our
(05:06):
members.
And that's, we're very, veryhappy about that, of course.
Then we also, in 2019, formed a501c3 called the Galveston
Theatre and Arts Partnership.
It's there that I met some of myvery dear new friends,
particularly Becky Major and thegang over at the Proletariat,
who have been vastly supportiveof our efforts here to introduce
(05:28):
the general public to thehistory of this area, and you've
got to recognize thatGalveston's ten generations old.
Texas is ten generations old.
It's brand new.
We're going so fast forward thatwe sometimes haven't been
looking at where we've comefrom.
And the question is, whoa, whatabout the Masons?
(05:50):
What do they have to do with it?
Well, Austin and all thoseoriginal folks, they were
Masons, And they came here notbecause they were Masons, but
they were Masons who came here.
And tried to open up a newworld, and went up the Brazos
River.
That's how the history goes.
And there's some wonderful,wonderful stories about all that
(06:11):
that are very, very, uh,Enjoyable and very informative.
I'm very, also was verydelighted to see that the Ball
High class called GalvestonHistory, uh, visited us in
February of this year.
It was just wonderful to see 85young men and women, our future,
and telling them a little bitabout some of the wonderful
history that we hope to preservefor them.
(06:32):
And so that's what GTAP is herefor, is to educate people to the
history, not of masonry, but ofthis area, and educate people to
the, some of the wonderfulstories and culture.
Artifacts that have been leftbehind, like this building, like
so much of Galveston, like, uh,even the building of the
proletariats, and that was anopera house, I learned, you
know, whoa, really?
Tremont Opera House.
(06:52):
Yes, you know, and so there's somuch to be learned, and we're so
grateful that people like GHF,etc., are able to help preserve
this.
We are now in a campaign to tryto preserve this temple, and
make sure that it's going to behere for our grandkids,
grandkids.
And that's what GTAP or theGalveston Theatre and Arts
Partnership is doing.
We've had a tremendous amount oflearning since COVID here
(07:15):
because we have, HurricaneHarvey did some damage to the
building and we're trying to getthat repaired.
And we brought in an expert onthe scenery that we looked at a
little bit earlier, Dr.
Wendy Wazup Berrett, and she isjust astounded at the quality of
the scenery that we have here.
And that's one of the thingsthat we can offer the public in
our 1929 authentic vaudevilletheater.
(07:37):
And we have a mega entertainmentflex here.
Back, of course, since 1900sstyle entertainment mega flex.
But it's the way things weredone and we got the acoustics in
here are phenomenal.
So for live events, this is ahard place to be.
So that's a little bit aboutwhat we've been doing.
I've got, uh, three lovelydaughters and a couple of great
(07:58):
grandkids.
They're very active out inVanderpool area.
We have a little place there.
And they live in Utopia, Texas.
Oh, Utopia, yeah.
Yeah, Utopia, Texas.
And, uh, quite active in, uh,all of the local goings on there
in Utopia.
The family is.
It's a great pleasure to go outand visit them.
Mm-hmm.
and, uh, the rest of thefamily's spread like so many
other American families allacross the country.
(08:20):
So that's, that's a little bitof where we're at.
Awesome.
That's great.
Well, great introduction and agreat description of this venue
that we're sitting in today.
It is an amazing venue to hold,um, you know, any type of event
you would like to have and comeinto this historic facility and,
and live in the history of notonly Galveston but Texas and.
(08:43):
Masonry, right?
So, um, one thing I'm reallycurious about is masonry in
general.
I've always heard about it.
I have always heard it's asecret society.
I have no idea really whatmasons do or anything.
Could you give us a littledescription of how masonry
started and what it is?
There's a lot of discussionamongst masons as to exactly
(09:05):
where and when and how, but thisgrew out of the stone masons,
the people who used to build.
Uh, cathedrals and you name itall over Europe and what they,
of course, if I was a Frenchspeaking person and I had to
build a cathedral in, inGermany, I might not speak that
language, but I could identifymyself because I didn't have a
(09:26):
passport.
I couldn't even read, but I sureknew how to do stonework.
I could identify which level ofmasonry I had attained by being
able to do certain signs orsymbols or words or explanations
of things.
Without using anything more thanvisual signals.
So that was how they identified,Oh, you know how to do that, so
(09:47):
you must be at this level.
You can do this.
Oh, you can do that.
You're at this high, high level.
And so you could trust peoplewith your life and your money to
build things because they hadproven to you that they knew
these.
And this was considered to beabsolutely top secret.
To be able to identify yourselflike that.
That was their version of apassport.
(10:08):
Because we didn't have passportsback then.
And so that was how craftsmenidentified themselves.
And this was not only inmasonry, it was in other guilds
too.
So the masons then,interestingly enough, started to
attract the attention of thenobility and some of the other
businessmen in Europe.
And they said, well, um, couldwe maybe be speculative masons?
(10:33):
We won't do any brickwork, butwe like your, we like the
organization that you've got, welike your guild structure, we
like the discipline that youhave, and we like also, and most
importantly, the way you helpeach other.
So, my stonemason brother wouldnever leave his other brother's
family in dire straits if thatbrother fell or what have you,
(10:55):
or was unable to work.
They would help him out.
So that was what...
It was also very attractive andthere was also a sort of a
morality of behavior standards.
Like if you were going to goclimbing up on top of the
cathedral in Cologne, youprobably weren't going to be
going up there drunk and yourbrothers would make sure that
you wouldn't do that type ofthing.
Yeah.
So that was crudely stated, uh,some of the brotherhood and then
(11:18):
people discovered, well, maybewe can improve ourselves,
improve our lives and improveour communities through this
organization.
And it became, uh, widespread.
And first in the UK, some peoplesay in Scotland is where it
started, and spread to London,and it's in the 1700s where we
see masonry, it spread to thecontinent, it went all over the
(11:39):
place in Europe as a partially,uh, not religious, but partially
something that was recognized indeity.
But not requiring you belong toany particular religion, et
cetera, and so forth, becausethe key thing was to have peace
and harmony.
Work together.
Let's make progress.
Let's not fight each other.
So that was kind of like thebasis for it.
(12:01):
And it's long since, of course,matured and ripened into a
global organization withmillions of people, members
around the world.
Is it a secret society?
No, it is a society that has itssecrets.
I compare that to a footballteam.
So we got a huddle.
They're not gonna tell you whatthe play is, but they come out
and do the play.
Mm-hmm.
And so it's, is that a secretsociety?
(12:23):
I don't think so, but it's, it'sa society that has their own
secrets, their own way that theydo things that they present to
the world.
And so what Masonry was, istrying to do and continues to
try to do, is to teach us to bebetter people.
and be more, a little bit moretolerant, a little bit more, uh,
leaning towards justice.
and always leaning towardstruth.
(12:45):
Now, in the early stages of thesettling of Texas, there were a
lot of masons involved and theycreated the public school
system.
The way they did this was theywould build a structure in town
that would be the schoolhouse orthe community center and
upstairs they would have theirMasonic meeting room.
You saw an example here of whata Masonic meeting room looked
(13:09):
like.
And that was very typical.
What, where did that come from?
After the Civil War, there were300 miles of railroad track in
the state of Texas.
They connected Columbia over inan almost straight line to the
Louisiana network, which wasmore built out.
And one line dropped straightdown to a place called
Galveston.
(13:29):
And that junction point, wherethe T was formed, is now called
Houston.
So they adopted the railroad.
I believe I'm calling thiscorrectly as the motto of
Houston.
So when you go to Minute MaidPark, that's when the little
train goes across.
It was 1847.
The first track was laid therein 1849.
So they were, they were thinkingahead.
Wow.
(13:49):
But Houston was a very safeplace.
It was out in the bayous.
It was like, uh, you know,Louisiana.
You couldn't get, couldn't getaround there if you didn't know
where you were going.
Yeah.
And you couldn't get over landhere because it was impassable.
There were no roads.
So you had water, and then afterwater came trains.
So after the Civil War, 600miles in 1865 became 30, 000
(14:11):
miles.
By 1890, and all of those werebranching out of Galveston and
cross connecting to get theproducts to market here or to
New Orleans.
Because that's where the, that'swhere the sales were.
And every place that trainstopped, bang, a little town
popped up.
A little town popped up.
The Europeans cleared outCentral Europe to, uh, bringing
people over here who wanted tostart a new life, a new and
(14:33):
better life, from all over theplace.
All religions, all of them.
You name it.
They came into Texas.
Which is why Galveston still hasnumber two immigration, the
number two immigration point inthe United States, is yet to be
surpassed, even though EllisIsland has been around for a
long time, and that's where allmy family came in, was Ellis or
walked across the border fromCanada.
(14:54):
Yeah, yeah.
So, uh, that was, uh, that wasjust the amazing thing about
Texas.
And when you Masons would gettogether and say, let's
organize, let's build ourselvesa community center, a
schoolhouse, etc.
And that's how it went.
Someone's having trouble, let'shelp them.
A family's in trouble, let'shelp them.
So, so, uh, just, I wanted toask.
So that's why, when you see inthese older, small towns, you,
(15:16):
you could drive through almostany of them, you have all the
older churches, and then on mostof them, you'll have a Masonic
Lodge.
Yes.
And many of these older, smalltowns, and I know, like myself,
I'll drive through these littletowns and see it, and I'm like,
I wonder, what were they doingin that Masonic Lodge?
Yeah.
You know, 150 years ago.
Yeah.
Same thing we're doing today.
And it's basically, what can wedo to help society?
(15:37):
What can we do to help eachother?
Our families and our society.
How can we make things better?
And, of course, with socialsecurity, things changed
dramatically in the 30s and 40sbecause now the government was
going to take care of us.
Prior to that, there were nosystems.
It was like, uh, oh boy.
You know, what do you got?
So, becoming a Mason was a veryimportant Social Security, if
(16:00):
you want to think of it thatway, at that time.
And then, there are many otherappendant bodies in masonry.
We have groups for the women andmen called Eastern Star.
We have Demolay for the boys,Rainbow Girls for the young
ladies.
Uh, there's Scottish Rite, YorkRite, the Shrine.
When I was a kid, we used to goto the Shrine Circus up in
(16:22):
Michigan.
And the big movie house was theShrine Temple.
And it was really, you know,beautiful old buildings.
That was the culture back then.
That was the way it was.
So could you tell me thedifference, um, I have so many
questions about it, but couldyou tell me the difference
between Scottish Rite, Masonry,Shrine, Shriners, and could you
break those differences down?
Well, each one, each one worksunder the same general
(16:43):
principle.
The Shriners are very heavilyinto the hospitals, okay, as is
the Scottish Rite.
We have gigantic hospitals.
In Dallas, for example, andtreats kids basically for very
little to free.
And the Shriners are very biginto burn centers.
And, uh, Children's Hospital ishere.
But basically it's, they gettogether in a little bit
(17:05):
different costume.
So a Shriner, you always know,has a fez on.
And they're trying to, uh, besort of illustrative of, of
somebody who went to Arabia manyyears ago.
And it's a wonderfulorganization.
It's very fraternal.
They have a lot of fun doingthat.
The Scottish Rite is more likea, a studium.
We, we study things in theliterature and how to be, learn
(17:29):
how to be a little bit betterpeople.
And the York Rite is another oneof the branches, also a very
exquisite, very fraternalorganization.
And they are, uh, they are very,uh, much into, and I'm, I'm not
a member of the York Rites, butI can say from what I know of
them and see of them, they'realso very much into many of the
social, Support systems that wehave, uh, helping people with
(17:52):
the medical problems, eyes, etcetera and so forth.
But they're all basically slightvariations off the theme of, we
start out with a masonry and wehave these different directions
that we can grow, if you will,limbs of the tree.
But the trunk of the tree is theBlue Lodge.
Interesting.
Interesting.
That's great.
That answers it.
Well, so yeah, any of thosebranches, they all have the same
(18:14):
tenets.
One thing that struck me, um,and I didn't know before you
gave me the tour, um, was thatyou, you had to believe in some
higher power, some higherentity.
And on one of the, I don't knowwhat you call it, altars, I
guess, I don't know what youcall it, but there's a Bible, a
Torah, and a Quran all sittingthere.
And I think that's one thing, I,I definitely didn't know, so I
know a lot of viewers andlisteners probably didn't know
(18:36):
that.
They may have thought of it as aChristian organization or...
Something of that sort.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
But they accept all that'sright.
you know, and it's, it's yourdeity.
the person that you worship.
So we don't require you tell usanything about it.
It's just, it's your, it'sbetween you and your deity.
Mm-hmm.
And why, why is that?
Because maybe there's a chanceyou might learn something Yeah.
(18:58):
Right.
Maybe an outside chance.
But anyway, that's what it'sabout.
It, uh, we are all still veryfrail humans, and we all make
mistakes and what have you, butMasonry gives us a little bit of
a guiding light.
Well, come on back this way.
Mm-hmm.
that's, that's what it is in, ina nutshell.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, I know you hear about a lotof the Amer, the founders of
America being Masons mm-hmm.
and even a lot of the foundersof Texas.
(19:20):
Right.
So who are some of the Texas,uh, the people, people that we,
we may have read about in thehistory books that were Masons?
Well, Stephen Austin, uh, Thepeople who basically engineered
Texas, uh, the, uh, uh, DavyCrockett, Jim Bowie, all those
guys were masons.
And I think the, uh, uh, Lamar,that was, uh, uh, undescribably
(19:46):
important for the educationsystem here in Texas.
The, uh, uh, I think the HarryTruman, Andrew Jackson.
All these, uh, I think 16 of ourpresidents, in fact, were
Masons.
16 of the, 40, 4 right, 47 rightnow I think you're at.
I might be in trouble with thatnumber, but something like that.
(20:07):
We'll fact check it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
I like that.
Yeah.
They have that on TV verified.
Right.
But anyway, there were quite afew, uh, Gerald Ford I think was
the last, uh, Masonic, or lastpresident, who was also a Mason.
That's the difference betweenthat and saying there was a
Masonic president.
There was a president who was aMason.
And so that has been a veryimportant, uh, uh, cultural and
(20:32):
intellectual position in thiscountry for a long time.
But it's like anything else.
It's, it requires continualinterest and continual diligence
to grow.
And I think right now oursociety is in a turning point.
You know, everybody's, everygeneration has the same...
turning, if you want to call itthat.
(20:53):
But things are different nowbecause we got lots of toys and
tools that we didn't have many,many years ago.
I think I read someplace thatkids are spending 40 hours a
week on their phones now.
At least.
At least, right?
That's pretty interesting.
So, what do you need to go to alodge for?
It's all on the phone, you know?
Right.
You're right.
So, we'll just have to see whathappens.
Yeah.
I think basically the philosophyis, is universal and it's, it's
(21:17):
a very, very old philosophy.
We've invented nothing new here.
We've just invented a way toexpress it that's different than
others.
And that's it.
And it's called masonry.
So the, um, I guess masonry,which you've explained how it
started, that was in the 18thcentury, the 1700s or earlier?
Yeah, well the official, what wenow call masonry.
But it grew out of the stonemasons and people argue, well it
(21:39):
could have been many, manyhundreds of years before that.
And there's some proofs here,but some proofs there.
I think that the key point is,it certainly is 250 years old.
So that we know.
So then they make their way intoTexas.
And you've kind of, you've donea great job describing how Texas
grew with the railroads and theengineering of the railroads.
Um, where was the first Masonic,I guess, headquarters in Texas?
(22:03):
Ooh, that's a good question.
It was actually in a little tinytown called Brazoria.
Uh huh.
Which is on the Brazos River,which is just upstream from West
Columbia.
And Brazoria, there was an oaktree over there.
Called, it was in a park wherefive guys got together.
And they said, you know, let's,we're all Masons.
Let's bring Masonry to Texas.
(22:23):
So they first appealed to theMasons in Mexico.
One of them, actually a ScottishRite Mason by the name of Santa
Anna, wound up throwing Austinin the clinker for a number of
months because they didn't wantto mess with his stuff or
something like that.
But long story short.
(22:44):
They finally wound up, uh,getting masonry into Texas by
going to Louisiana and gettingthe head mason in Louisiana to
sign their charter.
It was brought back to Texas inthe saddlebags of one of the
people during the battle at SanJacinto.
It was actually the charter toform masonry in Texas was...
(23:09):
to renew it because the one thathad formed in Brazoria, the, uh,
Santa Ana's generals burnedbrazoria to the ground,
including that lodge.
Oh, okay.
Those members fled to Houston.
Mm-hmm.
or what is now Houston.
They went off into the bayouthere, if you will.
Mm-hmm.
and, uh, wound up then, uh,calling the Holland Lodge,
number one.
(23:29):
Mm-hmm.
which is now in Houston, butactually started in Brazoria.
Gotcha.
And then after that, the numbertwo was in Milan Nacodoches.
And we have a chair from there,sitting in the cabinet, and
three, four, and five was WestColumbia, St.
John's, which would have beenthree, but they went, they went
dark for a while, as they callit, because of the disruption
(23:51):
during the, uh, revolution, andthen, and the Texas, uh,
Mexican, or the U.
S.
Mexican War, there was moredisillusion, stuff got very
confused, and what have you, butthe, uh, bottom line is that,
Those are the first lodges inHarmony, which lives in this
building now, was number six.
And we're up, I think we're over1, 400 in the state now, so.
(24:13):
And some, not all of them areactive, but there's been that
number, including TranquilityLodge, which is actually based
on the moon.
And the Masonic flag was plantedthere by Aldrich on the moon.
Really?
Oh yeah.
Oh my gosh.
No wonder.
So maybe we own the moon too.
Yeah.
Maybe not.
No wonder there are so manyconspiracy theories about Masons
(24:33):
all over the place and moviesmade about it.
That's funny.
Well, it makes for interestingstuff because it's supposed to
be mysterious, which it is not.
I like that.
I like that mysterious, thatshroud of mystery around it,
though.
Yeah, I mean, it's nice.
Who wants just regular, normalstuff?
Yeah.
It's gotta have some, gotta havesome slant to it, maybe, yeah.
Well, speaking of not normal,let's transition a little bit
(24:55):
into Galveston, and why masonryand Galveston, and the
origination of masonry.
Very good question.
Well, there's a fellow namedSamuel May Williams, and I call
him the Engineer of Texas.
And he actually was Stephen F.
Austin's secretary.
And he's the one who drew up allthe charters, etc.
Bilingual, he was, he wasabsolutely proficient in Spanish
(25:17):
and English.
So he hand wrote 300 of these,one in Spanish, one in English.
And he was a very dedicatedmason.
And he created so much, uh, heand his partner, they had the
steamboat up and down the BrazosRiver that was collecting
cotton.
And brought the...
Uh, basically, uh, Houston'stroops during the runaway scrape
(25:40):
across the Brazos to get themaway from the Mexican army, and
et cetera and so forth.
He designed and laid outGalveston.
He founded the Harmony Lodgehere in Galveston.
And so this was part of thereason that was quite
interesting.
We also then fast forward, uh,to the Civil War.
By then there was a strongpopulation here, it may have
(26:02):
been 10, 000 or something likethat in Galveston around the
Civil War time.
But this was a very importanttrading point because of the
cotton being grown along theBrazos.
And that cotton was brought toGalveston down the river
because, as I said, you couldn'tgo across land.
There was only one railroadtrain that was built in the
1840s or thereabouts.
(26:24):
But there was quite an avidriver traffic.
Also through Houston.
And they brought the ships wouldcome down to Galveston, they
would be loaded onto ships likethe Elissa and taken over to
England and elsewhere as aproduct to be sold.
And so this then created a veryinteresting situation during the
(26:46):
Civil War.
So in 1862, in September, theUnion Navy invaded Galveston to
blockade it.
And the story, of course, goesthat there was a, the January
1st.
It was a sudden attack ofGeneral Magruder and his troops,
and, uh, they caught the Unionforces, uh, and, uh, routed the
(27:07):
Navy by, with cotton cladsteamers, those are paddle
wheelers with cotton bales onthem, and after that, they
boarded one of the ships calledthe Harriet Lane, and killed the
captain and his first mate, andthat was a fellow named
Wainwright, and his first matewas Lee, and the ship's doctor
asked, uh, uh, the, uh, Theywanted to the ship to please
(27:29):
give these guys a Masonicburial.
So they came to Philip C.
Tucker, who was the mayor at thetime, and also the head of
Harmony Lodge, and after alittle bit of hither and thon,
and quite a bit in fact, theywound up giving them a Masonic
funeral, which was accompanyingthe bodies to the graves with
both Union and Confederatetroops.
and sailors in the entourage.
(27:51):
And so that was one of thethings that happened.
After, uh, that, Philip C.
Tucker was still very active,and he formed the Scottish Rite
in Galveston.
So that was 1867, when thisfirst started.
And around 1882, there was amagnificent Masonic temple built
(28:12):
in what is now the parking loton Post Office and 21st Street.
And they had a tremendousturnout.
It opened officially in 1884 andthere were electric lines, wires
here.
There was electricity inGalveston, etc.
There was a cotton exchange thatwas built.
Very, very important becauseafter the Civil War, things
changed radically, of course.
(28:33):
Even, they, I believe that thefutures, Trade on the stock
market was created out of cottonbecause you bet that you're
gonna grow a good crop of cottonand that would be your futures
market.
So they had a whole industry offactors and, uh, people who are
involved in the cotton trade upuntil I believe the 1930s.
(28:53):
It was very, very powerful here.
The cotton exchange, which isbeing rebuilt here is another
example of an art deco buildingfrom that time frame.
And so all of this was beingrebuilt and these guys were all
masons.
A lot of them in this cottonexchange board, for example, are
also masons.
A little bit of research on thatshowed, yeah, there's quite a
bit to learn still, but that'skind of the basic line.
(29:14):
And the interesting thing wasthat masonry was, again, a self
help organization, and it wasalso a kind of a social
organization, which is whyentertainment megaplexes made so
much sense, and why having, uh,Uh, place to go during the week
to do business outside your shopwas important or, you know, just
(29:35):
come in and just socialize withthe guys downtown, as it were.
So all these things were part ofmasonry in Galveston.
And then, uh, if we look at,Harmony Lodge actually moved
into 22nd Street after they leftthe big Masonic building.
Which eventually had to be torndown because it had burned too
(29:55):
many times.
They moved into Henry Cohen, uh,Synagogue Center, which had, uh,
Jewish folks, I guess, that madethat available or had moved out
or something of that nature.
Uh, I should know that history alittle better.
But anyway, that building waswhere the Masons were for many
years, and eventually they said,well, let's just move back into
the Scottish Rite Temple.
(30:16):
So they sold their interest inthat building and came back
here.
When you drive down 22nd Streetacross from the Baptist Church,
you see the old Cohen building,which is now privately owned,
but the Masonic Square andcompasses are above the door in
the temple.
So, that's a little bit ofhistory there.
And then, uh, we had anotherMasonic group here, and they
(30:37):
decided to build their own lodgeon 25th Street, Tucker.
So it's a fine group, too.
And those are the two Masonicbodies on the island right now,
besides the shrine, which isalso here.
And we have a lot of York Ritemembers in both, all these
organizations.
Yeah.
They're throughout.
A lot of guys belong to a lot oforganizations.
So...
And our most recent one...
is the Battleship Texas.
(30:58):
Oh, really?
That Lodge 188 number 838.
It's trying to raise funds tohelp pay for and preserve the
Battleship Texas.
So that's also a Masonic group.
It's called Gunsite because it'sthe lodge that was on the
Battleship Texas.
It's called the Gunsite Lodge.
So, so intertwine in historyevery way, shape, and form.
Yep.
And, and American history, Texashistory.
(31:19):
Just part of it, part of it,that's right.
So, you know, you, you talkedabout, um, doing business even
outside of their own officeswhere they would, you know,
probably meet in a hall similarto this one, a library just like
this one in the variousbuildings they had here in
Galveston and, and made deals.
And I guess that's, that's oneof the things I like to talk
about is like, you don't reallymake the deals at the office or
(31:41):
over the phone.
It's.
It's face to face and, you know,coming from a sales background,
it's, you're, you're workingwith these guys, uh, face to
face.
this building and the previousbuildings would have been the
perfect place to do that withsomebody you had camaraderie
with and it's something incommon with.
And back then a handshake meantsomething.
It really was your word.
(32:02):
And if you turned against yourword, you would probably have a
very difficult time proceeding.
Better just to leave town, typeof thing.
That's true.
You think about the socialstructure of that, right?
Absolutely.
I mean, the honesty, the truth,the um, integrity, right?
Um, you actually had an answerfor what you were doing, one way
(32:23):
or the other.
You were responsible, for it.
And, not that it's gone away,but I think that the emphasis is
spun differently.
It was more black and white backthen, now it's kind of gray in
many areas.
But nevertheless, your word is,was your patent.
That was it, you know, you couldbe trusted or not trusted.
(32:46):
So could you tell us about thebuilding that was here before
this building, and then a littlebit about this one?
Well, this previous building wasactually called Harmony Hall.
And it was a, it was a financialinvestment by the Jewish members
of Harmony Lodge.
And the idea there was we need away to raise money to help pay
(33:07):
for all the charitable work thatwe are doing.
And not only supporting thewidows and orphans, but school
children, orphanages, etc, etc.
And so this is what Harmony Hallwas used for.
It was an entertainmentmegaplex.
And what do we mean by that?
Back then, entertainmentmegaplexes, you had music, you
had dances, you had theater, youhad a wonderful social place
(33:29):
where the guys could come duringthe week.
And on the weekend, the ladiesand kids and the whole family
come down and do nice things.
It was a social meeting place,and it was a cultural center as
well.
So the Jewish people could usethe building for whatever they
were doing as well.
It was open basically to thepublic, just as we are now.
(33:50):
And you could rent it just as wedo now.
And so that was that buildingdesigned by Nicholas Clayton.
Now, Nicholas Clayton is abeautiful, beautiful...
Architectural masterpiececreator.
And if you look at the mostbeautiful old buildings in
Galveston, they're all Victorianand they're Nicholas Clayton.
From Bishop's Palace, uh, myfavorite one actually is the
(34:15):
Trueheart Adrianza building.
22nd?
Yeah.
Between Strand and Mechanic.
They were both masons andAdrianza was a...
Master Mason, who was in chargeof the St.
John's Lodge in West Columbia,of which I was a Mason, a member
and still am.
And so this was West Columbia.
Well, guess what that meant?
He was a trained guy.
(34:36):
He wanted to, he was the guy whowas pushing to build railroad
tracks.
Uhhuh.
And so, interestingly enough, hebuilds a real estate office
right next to Stuart T.
What a coincidence.
What a coincidence.
and Stewart Title's, of course,the biggest title company in the
country.
So, you know, this is all cameoutta Galveston.
Mm-hmm.
little stuff there.
And that, that was the, uh, thetype of architecture at that
(34:57):
time.
I think the great storm probablycaused everything to go topsy
turvy here in town.
And obviously, and then they'dbeen used to plagues and things
of that nature, but having thewhole town leveled, that was
just beyond.
So probably the, uh, and I saythis with some apprehension
(35:17):
because I'm not sure it seemedremotely true.
But probably there was aninterest in, let's do something
different.
Let's start looking towards thefuture.
Let's go Art Deco.
And quite interestingly, inEurope, I worked for some years
in Leipzig, which was acompletely beautiful Art Deco
combination between Art Deco andVictorian architecture.
(35:39):
Just beautiful.
Just like downtown Galveston,only of course much bigger.
But the idea was that this, Thisseems to just fit perfectly.
So when you look around Gauss,this is like a mini version of
Leipzig, which is quite a, quitea fantastic town.
So anyway, this was the type ofchange that went into the world
(36:02):
after the great storm.
This, the Harmony Hall stood.
Until, as we mentioned a littlebit earlier, the tragic fire in
1928, which was front page newsand brought all the businessmen
running out of their shops hereto come down and try and help
save whatever they could fromHarmony Hall because it was
(36:22):
going up in flames.
And it was somebody actuallycame in during lunch and said,
Hey man, the building's on fireupstairs.
So what?
Yeah, and sure enough, thetheater was on fire.
How it started, we don't know.
They had cellulose acetate filmand people smoked.
Yeah, I don't know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's all special.
But the point being that theylost the building and they took
(36:45):
a look at trying to rebuild itand they said it's too far gone.
It's just and we don't want toever have that problem again of
the building catching on fire.
So they hired this fellow Finn,Albert Finn, and he came in and
rebuilt the story.
structure into what we now have,which has no flammable material
(37:06):
in the framing.
It can't burn.
He also was told it wanted to behurricane proof.
So they put in exquisite glassthat they brought in from Europe
that actually is the technologyof how to make that glass is
currently lost.
We hope someday we might be ableto resurrect it, but that's
going to take some research.
And then we also want to make itflood proof.
(37:26):
So he sent his engineers out tofind out.
How, what's the worst flood theyhad on record?
We're going to build it just alittle bit higher than that.
And I'll be, during HurricaneIke, even after the island had
been razed, we still had astreak that just missed going
into the building here.
Just missed it, so.
Finn did very well indeed.
He was also a 32nd degreeScottish Rite Mason.
(37:48):
And the man who was the generalcontractor here, M.
C.
Bowden, he was also a 32nddegree Scottish Rite Mason.
Bowden was made a 32nd degreeMason.
Here in Galveston, the class of1907, and considering that was
really quite new back then, hewas one of the early founders.
His son left us his father'smagazine.
(38:11):
They had a dedication magazinethey put out, which had, went
into exquisite detail oneverything.
Almost how many nuts and boltsare in the place.
Oh, wow.
Oh, I mean, it was just, and allthe Masonic organizations, etc.,
etc.
It was really detailed.
And, uh, so his son gave us hisdad's copy.
It's dog eared, it's got coffeestains on it, etc., etc.
(38:33):
And I had it copied.
Just exactly like that.
Beautiful copy of the originalbrochure, which they actually
printed in this building.
Because they had their ownlittle printing room upstairs on
the third floor.
So, and we continue to discoverthings.
We spent, uh, one of, one of theguys has spent, uh, over a
thousand hours, three years, tobe, over three years, to go
(38:56):
through the vault and organizestuff.
And it's amazing.
We found all the details of M.
C.
Bowdoin's reconstruction.
How much he paid, whose nameswere there chipping the, uh,
mortar off the bricks that theywound up reusing, etc.
It's just unbelievable details.
Yeah.
Stuff you, uh, and we, that'sall beautifully organized in
there, so that's another part ofthe story.
(39:17):
Now, the architect for thisbuilding was also famous for
something else, wasn't he?
Well, he did a lot of stuff inHouston particularly and around
Texas, but Finn's current andmost famous monument is the San
Jacinto Monument.
And that stands there, uh, Outin Laporte, out at the
battleground.
I call it Laporte because that'swhere, uh, we had a plant that I
(39:39):
worked at as well.
But that's, it's quite aremarkable piece of
architecture.
I believe it is or was one ofthe tallest structures, uh,
obelisks of its type.
And, uh, they still be.
But quite a, quite an impressivepiece of work.
Art Deco all the way.
And the interesting question is,well, how do you preserve all
that stuff?
So we're starting to learn howto do that and finding companies
(40:02):
that know how to do that.
It's quite a chore, quite achore.
So how quickly was this buildingrebuilt after that fire?
Well, the, Finn wrote a letterthe week after the fire, which
would have been early March, andhe suggested, well, I'd be glad
to design a building for you.
That contract was let in April.
By the time they got everythingmobilized and started, the
(40:24):
construction was June, the lastweek of June in 1928.
This building was opened inNovember of 1929.
In fact, a week after the stockmarket crashed.
So, the old building wasdemolished, taken apart,
salvaged what could be salvaged.
The new building was prepared,all steel and concrete framing,
(40:46):
and built.
It opened for business with itsown magnificent vaudeville
theater in November 1929.
That the vaudeville theater thatwe looked at a little bit
earlier is really a masterpiece.
It is almost one of a kind andthe quality of the scenery in
there is excellent.
We know this from one of thenation's leading experts in
(41:08):
these type of theaters and whocame here and we spent a week in
January hauling drops up anddown and she inspected them and
Here's what needs to be done toeach one of these.
And so, we have a clear pathforward.
We have several we must replaceright away.
So, we're hoping that we can getGTAP to collect some funds to
help restore the scenery upthere.
(41:30):
Make sure that our grandkids,grandkids get to see it too.
Because it is amazing.
Absolutely amazing.
And, uh, That is part of the,uh, part of the history of what
they put in here.
The ballroom is, acoustics are,you noticed it when you walked
in.
Yes, I did.
The acoustics are absolutelyoutstanding.
We had professional musicianscome in here and compliment the
(41:51):
quality of the acoustics thereand also in the theater.
If you can project your voice alittle bit, you don't even need
a microphone in the theater.
Yeah.
If you mumble, of course.
But if you, a little bit forwardthere, it's, cause they didn't
have it back then.
Mm.
So.
They had everything set up sothat the acoustics were
wonderful.
We have in the theater abeautiful old 1250 piece pipe
(42:13):
organ from Pilcher, a company inLouisville, Kentucky.
And that's one of the thingsthat we're dedicated to get
restored.
I'd love to have a, uh, somebodyplaying Toccata and Fugue in D
minor and having a great scenemaybe of...
One of the scenes is hell andanother one is volcanoes going
off and stuff like that.
We could, we could createscenery to accompany that music
(42:36):
very nicely.
And that would be a beautifulgoal for the future.
That is great.
This is all things that we hopeto be able to raise funds
through grants and generousdonations in the future.
I'm hoping that we can get to apoint where we can say, Okay,
uh, we would love to call thisthe Jones family scene.
And we're going to play this inthe Wyatt Family Auditorium, and
(42:59):
that's inside the, uh, John DoeScottish Rite Masonic Temple in
Galveston.
And we use these to gain, toperhaps raise some funds to keep
this building going, becausethat's what it's going to take.
And get some grants too, sowe're hard at work at that.
Yeah.
And if people wish to, we have awebsite called the Galveston
Theatre and Arts Partnership.
(43:20):
Or galtap.
org that they can go to anddonate.
And come on down, we're veryinterested in having people get
involved in what we're doing.
Yeah.
So, you have a wonderfulopportunity to...
Show off a beautiful buildingand we throw tours in and do
stuff like that.
Well, you're the best tour guidefor this place anyway, I think.
I mean, I've gone on two tourshere and it's fascinating every
(43:42):
time.
Well, it's, it's a labor oflove.
It's the way it is.
And it's this and the ship, soit's a couple of really nice
things that you get to do inGalveston.
And there are many more likethis.
All kinds of opportunities herein Galveston to get involved.
You don't have to just sit thereand mess with your cell phone.
That's for sure.
That is for sure.
But if you are messing with yourcell phone, just go to Galveston
(44:02):
Scripton on Instagram and checkit out.
Absolutely.
Wonderful.
Um, so, I guess before we wrapit up here, what are some of
your favorite aspects ofGalveston history, whether they
relate to masonry or not?
I think the, the fact that thistown as Izola Collins So
dramatically emphasized in her,in her orchestration of it is
(44:26):
Galson somehow survives.
It makes it through, you nameit.
And the attitude of the peopleis heartwarming and friendly.
This is a very nice place to be.
And it's helping each other.
And it's, it's a sort of acommunity spirit that is really
very enjoyable.
So, nice, relaxed, island typestuff.
(44:50):
When I first heard, well, Idon't want to go off the island.
I said, what's the matter withyou, man?
Houston's right, I believe thatnow.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
And it's, it's just a gentle,quiet place where you can do,
you name it.
And you can, we have atremendous art community here.
We have a, I think a very, veryliberal, but very conservative
(45:14):
elements, both of which seem toget along with each other.
Uh, it offers an awful lot forsuch a small place, and I think
it's growing.
That's one of my favoritethings, too, is you get along
with everybody, no matter what.
Yeah.
Like, no matter what theybelieve in, it's like you see
them out and about all the time,and it's like, well, you can be,
everyone's friendly.
Yeah, that's right.
Everyone's nice, you know, so.
(45:35):
And that's, that's, that's oneof the things that are truly
remarkably enjoyable aboutGalveston.
And also, I think the...
The sense that we are movingforward, perhaps some people
think it's too fast to clip.
I don't know, that's, that's notmy judgment call, but there is
progress here.
But I'm hoping that we can makepart of that progress a
(45:55):
recollection and restoration ofour past.
Because it blends in so wellwhen you're able to come into a
town and look at, wow, isn'tthat great?
You know, like losing theBalinese ballroom.
Oh, what a loss.
It was just so sad to see thatpiled up on the, piled up on the
seawall, you know, that's thekind of thing that once it's
gone, it's gone.
(46:15):
And so working to preserve whatwe have here is so important.
Yeah.
And I think that there's astrong sense of that and it's
spreading through all thegenerations on the island.
What, what do you hope to see inthe next, um, let's say 50 years
in Galveston?
What do you hope to see?
Well, I expect that Galveston isprobably going to become, uh,
very, continue to grow as a, uh,uh, seafaring port.
(46:40):
I think there's going to be atremendous interest in the
restoration of things gone past.
We may, who knows, we may have abattleship sitting here that
people can look at, and cruiseliners.
Maybe Alyssa's going to havesome pals with her, too.
I hope so.
All kinds of stuff.
Railroad museum.
Wouldn't that be cool to have arailroad run back up to Houston?
That would be great.
Nothing against I 45, butreally.
(47:02):
But a speed rail would be nice.
Yes, wouldn't that be nice,indeed.
And, uh, who knows, by thenmaybe we don't even travel on
land, we'll be up in the air.
So, we may have an airbornetrain going in.
But these things are all part ofit.
I think there's probably goingto be a continued pressure to
make this place as touristfriendly as possible.
So, we may see parts of the towndisappearing, the old wooden
(47:24):
sections disappearing and maybesome of the old, who knows
whatever, disappearing in placeof new and more modern things.
That's inevitably going tohappen.
It's just going to happen.
So, and, but I hope that thepeople continue to remember
where they came from andpreserve those elements that are
living proof of it.
(47:45):
To me, that's what is going to,going to make the difference out
there.
Did they think about that 50years ago?
I think so, because that's whenthey started restoring the
island.
In fact, well, in the 70s.
I came down here in 77, Ibelieve it was, and stayed at
the Flagship Hotel.
And that was quite a fancy placeback then.
(48:07):
And I came downtown to lookaround, and it was sort of like,
you've got to leave before 9.
30 because of police curfewdowntown.
What a change that's done.
Yeah, now, yeah, now you don'tgo out before 9 30.
That's right.
And you better not leave untilthen.
Yeah.
So these, these are all thingsthat are changing and it becomes
more open and more, uh,available.
(48:29):
I think the East end is justlike astounding.
You drive around there and lookat it.
My goodness.
Uh, one of the things that we doneed to do here is we've got to
figure out a way to protectourselves from the elements.
And of course, my wife's Dutch.
So in her family, we're allcivil engineers.
They built dikes and stuff likethat.
there's an obvious solution, butI don't think it's very popular.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(48:49):
I don't think so either.
Yeah.
Well, Roy, thank you so much forthe tour today.
Um, we're going to put, we'llhave a link in the description
for that tour.
Um, thank you so much for thisamazing interview.
Very well spoken.
You were the best tour guide andrepresentative for Galveston.
I think it's, it's great.
Well, thank you very much.
It's a real pleasure and realdelight to welcome you into the
(49:10):
building and Give you a tour andshow you what we got.
Absolutely.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Appreciate it.
J.R. (49:16):
Thank you so much for joining us on Galveston
Unscripted.
I really hope you enjoyed thisepisode.
If you did, please let us know.
We are on all social media,Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, you
name it.
Go search us, go find us, leaveus a rating, leave us a review
if you're listening on Spotifyor Apple, YouTube, whatever.
Don't forget to go check out theentire video tour.
(49:38):
of the Scottish Rite Templeright here in Galveston.
Thanks for watching.
Thanks for listening.
And we'll see you next time onGalveston Unscripted.
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