March 4, 2024 • 22 mins
If you have a loved one in active addiction, or in any stage of the recovery process, it can be very beneficial to learn about this journey from a mother who has traveled it alongside her son. In this episode, Cindy joins one of our therapists, Jerry Daley, as she shares her family’s experience battling addiction.
Not all participants in this podcast are medical or clinical professionals. Always consult with a qualified health care provider.
Host: Jonny Hartwell.
Not all participants in this podcast are medical or clinical professionals. Always consult with a qualified health care provider.
Host: Jonny Hartwell.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Making a difference in the lives ofthe people that we love. Addiction is
a treatable disease, so I thinkit's more about bringing their guard down and
having them understand that we are tryingto assist him in any way, shape
or form that we can. AndI was like, oh, I just
oh my god. I never wantto feel this way again. This is
Gateway Rehabs Recovery Roll Call. Hey, welcome in. This is Gateway Rehabs
(00:24):
Recovery roll Call. I'm Johnny Hartwell, Jerry Daily. Hi, Yes,
I'm Cindy. Hi, Cindy,tell me your story. There's not enough
time to tell you my story.But my our son was a patient at
Gateway, impatient. He agreed togo there. He was not forced.
(00:44):
And I think the fact that hewas desirous of helping himself get better was
the name of the game, allright, So tell us his tell me
his story, his background. Howold was he and what what was what
was some of the things he struggle. He's three and a half years as
we call it clean. He stilllives in a three quarterhouse. And if
(01:07):
I could go backwards and tell you, you know how things have on,
well, he started out using pills. And he was in the restaurant business,
and I think that restaurant business hasa lot to do with people who
get involved with drugs or drinking.He worked in the restaurant business for many
(01:29):
years, probably four. One dayflew off the handle, lost his job.
He was he didn't have a job, and he was living with us
at the time, and he gotvarious jobs and was able to support himself
for a while. And I noticedcredit cards of mine that had gift cards
(01:53):
five, six, seven, eighthundred dollars at a time, and I
didn't question it because I didn't wantwant to know. And he he was
doing things like that, bouncing jobto job, starting to look haggard and
extremely thin. And he had thisbeard that was it was long and it
(02:15):
was scruffy, and he would flyoff the handle and we would discuss things
and he would say, I'm afunctioning addict. I can work, I
can do things, but I'm anaddict, mom, And I want to
did you know that he was?I did, I didn't. I did,
but I didn't. And I wasthinking about this last night. Once
(02:37):
once I you know, he letme in and he let me know that
he was an addict. We wentthrough some things together to help him for
treatment. He was seeing a physicianin the area who was able to prescribe
suboxone for him to assist him ingetting clean. And he he's told me
(03:00):
stories he used to sell the suboxonewas then, you know, moving on
to bigger and better things and takingunprescribed uh opiates. He would tell me
he would, he would. Hetold me there were times when he would
take thirty pills and wash it downwith a ball of whiskey. He's lucky
to be alive. And you know, without having had gateway to support his
(03:28):
choice of recovery. The way thingsare today and the amount of you know,
illicit drugs that are out there,and fentanyl that is so prevalent,
I don't know if he would evenbe alive. But to you know,
go back. I kind of gotaway from your question, I guess.
But he was living with with variousgirlfriends. One girlfriend threw him out at
(03:53):
one point and she called me onthe phone and she said, I threw
all of his clothes out the window. I threw everything out the window.
You know, he's a drug addict. And I immediately disliked her. I
didn't like her. I didn't Ididn't want to hear that. One day
I found to me what looked likea little wax paper piece of wax paper,
(04:18):
maybe smaller than the size of thedime on the floor in the laundry
room at home. He wasn't livingthere then. And I remember having seen
that at a conference that I waspart of as a teacher, where they
had a display board and this iswhat marijuana looks like. This is what
(04:44):
vicodin looks like. This is whata bag looks like, you know,
And they had little packages with rubberbands, and in my head, I
was like, holy crap, thisis you know what this is. This
is serious business. Not very longafter that, my dog had a seizure
type of thing where she just wasshe was out of it. We took
(05:08):
her to the vet. We couldn'tfigure it out, and he was living
with us at the time, Andwhat we discovered had happened was when he
was sleeping and had taken suboxone,his saliva had drooled off the side of
his lip. Dog was kissing,licking, and dog got high. She
(05:28):
recovered and everything was okay, butit just started to get worse and worse.
I was embarrassed. I didn't knowwhere to go with it. I
didn't tell my friends, I didn'ttell my own mom, but I knew
something was wrong. But I neverthought that my son was using heroin.
(05:59):
I just I wouldn't let myself believethat that was something that was even possible
with the love and support and theyou know, the family life that we
had. So it wasn't until mysister called me one day and said,
you know, we have a seriousproblem here and my nephew is I'm going
(06:24):
to have him arrested because he's usedmy credit cards and he stole them whenever
he was at the house. Andshe said to me, I met with
him today. We met up ata local ice cream shop and he told
me and he shared with me thathe was an addict. And she immediately,
(06:49):
of course shared that with me andsaid, if he doesn't go get
help, I'm going to have himarrested. And that was at the beginning
of a week. By Friday ofthat week, we were able to go
to to a branch of Gateway Ithink out in Cranberry or something him that
(07:14):
all I did I did, andhe did not deny. He did not
deny to this day. He tellsme he was high as a kite when
he went to the intake interview andyou know, we're standing, we're waiting
there. There was a middle agedwoman who you could just as the mother
(07:38):
of an addict. I feel likeI'm stereotypical sometimes because I can look at
If he gave me a lineup andthey said, point out the addict,
I feel like I could probably dothat because I got so used to looking
at him. Nevertheless, there weretimes where he would come over to help
me and his elbow would fall offthe side of the table and he started
(08:01):
to, you know, started nodding. And I never knew any of these.
I never knew anything about any ofthis, and I didn't I still
didn't really want to know. Anyhow, we did the intake on Friday.
My sister was insistent that he goesbecause he said he would he needs to
go tomorrow, fearful that he wouldnot. He would not continue to agree
(08:24):
to go and come up with excuses, and he did. He had excuses.
I have to do this, Ihave to do that. Sunday came
and my sister and my dad,who is elderly at the time he was
eighty something, confronted him while hewas at the car wash cleaning out his
car. He doesn't have that caranymore because he claimed he couldn't drive it
(08:50):
because there was too much blood spatteredfrom him using in the car. It
was that bad. It was aSunday. Then my husband I could not.
I could not. I just couldn'tfunction. My husband drove our son
to moffat Gateway, dropped him offand that was the first, the first
(09:18):
time that I really believed that myson was a drug addict. He stayed
in Gateway, impatient. He didnot buck the system, you know.
He would tell me how he wasthrowing up and how sick he was,
and about various roommates that he hadand how sick they were, and there
(09:39):
were there was quite a quite agap in I would say it seemed like
years where he wasn't able to contacthome. And then he was given permission
slowly to be able to make aphone call. But it could only be
for so long. And it's funnybecause every time my phone rang, I
(10:03):
think I had a mini stroke.I was just I was so afraid because
I had enabled him over the yearswhen he wasn't when he wasn't working full
time, and on my way homefrom work, I'd stop by his apartment
and you know, stick thirty dollars, forty dollars. He kept his boots
outside. I'm I'd stick him inhis boots and I'd go home, thinking,
(10:24):
he's probably really hungry and he's notmaking that much money. And I
would never let my child go hungry. You know, as it turns out,
now I hear him, you know, he'll say to me, hungry.
I got five dollars worth of gas, and I went and bought dope
with the rest. And you know, I argued with your mom, I
don't need anything. I don't needany money. And I just I feel
(10:50):
now that I could have helped him, and I could have done things differently,
but I did not want to acceptthe fact that he was struggle with
this disease. So he went throughabout a year impatient at Gateway. It
was a wonderful experience just learning theprocess. Family members could visit on Sundays.
(11:16):
I would go, my husband wouldgo, Grandpa would go, a
niece would go. And the peoplethat were closest to us were so instrumental
in his recovery. You know,if it weren't for my sister and my
dad, who you know, basicallythreatened him to some extent, I don't
(11:39):
believe that he would be alive today. What do you think was the turning
point for you and your family whileyour son was in the program? How
do you mean turning point? Well, you've literally communicated a lot of the
things that John and I have talkedabout, the enabling excuse me, the
behaviors are concerned, the OBO fallingoff the table. What do you think
(12:01):
was the most instrumental, the mostimportant part of your son and your family's
treatment when he was in Gateways program. It's hard, that's hard to it's
hard to answer, but knowing thatit was real when my family knew because
he was stealing from them, andmy sister was just she she pushed and
(12:24):
he did not buck and she shewent to visit him and it was so
it's so emotional. You we talka lot about shame. I was embarrassed.
Yeah, I was embarrassed. Iwas you know, I'm at my
work. I was close to somany people and never would I dare say
(12:50):
anything to anyone about what I wasgoing through. And now you've gone through
the process where you were actually ableto accept being here and talk about the
situation openly. I am, Iam, and I hope that you know.
Some of the words that I givetoday are some of the things that
(13:11):
you take from from listening to me. Let you know that addiction is a
disease. If a drug addict wantshelp, there is so much available to
them, but they have to wantto get better. It's just like being
(13:33):
diabetic. You know you have adisease and you have to take that shot
of insulin in order to regulate yoursugar. I just I'm getting better.
You know, my son, he'sbeen clean for three and a half years.
He still lives within the realm ofrecovery. He lives in a he
(13:58):
went from a halfway house, agateway to a three quarterhouse. He lives
outside of Alleghany County and has beensuccessful in living with other recovering addicts who
they have each other to share theirstories with. It's incredible. So your
(14:20):
son's developed, as we then,so he has outside of the immediate family,
like with you and your husband.He's developed a social structure with people
who are in recovery as well.Yes, as a matter of fact,
he went to a couple of differentlived in a couple of different houses.
At this point, he's the managerof a house where there are eight I
(14:41):
got a question for Jerry. Howimportant is developing that we that's paramount going
to meetings, getting a sponsor,finding people who are as motivated as you,
because you're only going to be asstrong as your weakest friend. You
know what I mean? So well, a lot of these people who before
recovery, the friends are all enabling. Oh listen, not only all enabling,
(15:03):
they're usually all in the same circle. So again, like we talk
about in our family program, youhave to cut the people out of your
life that are going to be detrimentalto you. And again, it doesn't
matter if you can be around themone time, five times and they don't
use the sixth time you hang outwith them, they might bring something out.
Are you strong enough? Do youeven want to face that with the
people that you quote care about thatyou've been around for so long. So
(15:24):
when we talk about developing your WIIwith people not only that you may have
never met before, but people inthe rooms and people that either have similar
stories or stories that are no likenothing like yours. It's important in paramount
to your recovery because that's how youcontinue to grow through yourself, within the
meetings, within working your steps,within calling your sponsor, within the whole
dynamic of what your recovery becomes.Your recovery is so much more than just
(15:48):
going to either a detox or animpatient and then a long term and then
getting out. Your recovery is lifelong. But it's a matter of what do
you do with that lifelong aspect ofit, because I've seen plenty of people
who have gotten five ten years andnot that they've gone over confident, but
something happens and then everything changes again. Do you realize that relapses is I
(16:10):
do? And I feel extremely blessedthat our son went to Gateway one time.
He went through the program at Gatewayone time. He didn't walk out
of there. When I went tovisit, I would see, you know,
people with a suitcase leaving, andit ripped my heart out. He
(16:37):
goes to an assist three and ahalf years into his recovery because he's he's
always going to be in recovery.He'll never be fully recovered. He I
lost my train of thought here fora second, well, I do have
a question. Yes, you know, we talk a lot about shame and
embarrassment. You acknowledge that his aunt, and you have other family members,
(17:03):
his grandfather, you know, theyfeel that shame and embarrassment as well.
Has he been able to at least, you know, patch up some of
those some of those relationships he absolutelyhas, and is he is getting past
the point of embarrassment. When hewould come come to come home to visit
(17:26):
and those people that were instrumental inhim agreeing to get help were around,
he was incredibly embarrassed and I wasso embarrassed. And it was the people
that I love the most and thepeople that love me the most, and
it just it sucks you into thisthis mode of embarrassment, and you just
(17:52):
you almost look behind you sometimes tomake sure that that something's not happening,
or you know, you wait forthat phone call from a complete stranger.
As you were saying a couple ofminutes ago, he goes to meetings three,
four, sometimes five days a week. There are things that he shares
with his peers who are in therooms, as they say, which I
(18:18):
didn't understand what that even meant,but those are you know, you go
to an aar and on meeting andthey're in a church or they're in a
building and it's in the basement andit's cold and it's dreary. And I've
gone to a couple with my son. I went to a meeting with him
to celebrate his one year anniversary,and I was just taken back by the
(18:45):
things that people shared because they arenot embarrassed when they are with their peers,
and they gained strength from people inthe rooms who you know, they
get their phone numbers, they haveconversations. They have the same disease,
so they can talk about it.And I hate to compare it to something
(19:07):
like, I don't know, evencancer. You know, people develop a
relationship with those people who have similarillnesses and they go through treatment and they
you know, they go through moretreatment and eventually they ring the bell.
And my son, he's rung thebell. What is more more, what
(19:30):
is stronger? What is more powerfulthe embarrassment, the shame, or the
love and healing you have for yourson. The love and healing is way
more powerful than embarrassment. At thispoint, have you got to the point
where you're actually proud of your sonbecause he's gone through this and it's a
(19:53):
difficult journey. I couldn't have saidit better myself. I am, we
are. My whole family is hisfriends, even even you know, social
media people who I've come in contactwith. It got to a point where
he was no longer embarrassed and hewas proud of himself. He was so
(20:15):
proud that he was willing to sharehis journey of recovery with complete strangers and
posted on social media. And atthat point I was it was it was
very hard for me to read thatstory or to to look at that,
(20:36):
because I didn't want my people atwork to, oh, my god,
her son, he's a drug addict. Look at her, you know she
she doesn't look like she would bethe mother of a drug addict. It
just you go through embarrassment, yougo through codependency, You go through so
many changes, as does that addict. And you can our son, I
(21:02):
think, will continue to go tothe rooms and continue to have his close
knit bunch of friends who are alsoin recovery. That you know, he's
been fortunate. He's lost friends whilehe's been in recovery. He has called
me and shared it with me.He has also shared things that happen in
(21:23):
the house where he lives with people, But there are also things that he
will not He doesn't want to goback, and he doesn't. He never
wants to talk about the past.And when I commended him for him being
clean for a year, his commentwas a normal, mom, I'm getting
(21:48):
normal. What do you mean youdon't have You don't congratulate someone for being
normal, Well you do. Iwant to congratulate him, but I also
want to congratulate you and for sharingthat story, because it's an important story
to tell and your perspective is veryimportant, and I want to thank you
absolutely, thank you so much forletting me speak. This is Gateway Rehabs
(22:11):
Recovery roll Call
Making a difference in the lives ofthe people that we love. Addiction is
a treatable disease, so I thinkit's more about bringing their guard down and
having them understand that we are tryingto assist him in any way, shape
or form that we can. AndI was like, oh, I just
oh my god. I never wantto feel this way again. This is
Gateway Rehabs Recovery Roll Call. Hey, welcome in. This is Gateway Rehabs
(00:24):
Recovery roll Call. I'm Johnny Hartwell, Jerry Daily. Hi, Yes,
I'm Cindy. Hi, Cindy,tell me your story. There's not enough
time to tell you my story.But my our son was a patient at
Gateway, impatient. He agreed togo there. He was not forced.
(00:44):
And I think the fact that hewas desirous of helping himself get better was
the name of the game, allright, So tell us his tell me
his story, his background. Howold was he and what what was what
was some of the things he struggle. He's three and a half years as
we call it clean. He stilllives in a three quarterhouse. And if
(01:07):
I could go backwards and tell you, you know how things have on,
well, he started out using pills. And he was in the restaurant business,
and I think that restaurant business hasa lot to do with people who
get involved with drugs or drinking.He worked in the restaurant business for many
(01:29):
years, probably four. One dayflew off the handle, lost his job.
He was he didn't have a job, and he was living with us
at the time, and he gotvarious jobs and was able to support himself
for a while. And I noticedcredit cards of mine that had gift cards
(01:53):
five, six, seven, eighthundred dollars at a time, and I
didn't question it because I didn't wantwant to know. And he he was
doing things like that, bouncing jobto job, starting to look haggard and
extremely thin. And he had thisbeard that was it was long and it
(02:15):
was scruffy, and he would flyoff the handle and we would discuss things
and he would say, I'm afunctioning addict. I can work, I
can do things, but I'm anaddict, mom, And I want to
did you know that he was?I did, I didn't. I did,
but I didn't. And I wasthinking about this last night. Once
(02:37):
once I you know, he letme in and he let me know that
he was an addict. We wentthrough some things together to help him for
treatment. He was seeing a physicianin the area who was able to prescribe
suboxone for him to assist him ingetting clean. And he he's told me
(03:00):
stories he used to sell the suboxonewas then, you know, moving on
to bigger and better things and takingunprescribed uh opiates. He would tell me
he would, he would. Hetold me there were times when he would
take thirty pills and wash it downwith a ball of whiskey. He's lucky
to be alive. And you know, without having had gateway to support his
(03:28):
choice of recovery. The way thingsare today and the amount of you know,
illicit drugs that are out there,and fentanyl that is so prevalent,
I don't know if he would evenbe alive. But to you know,
go back. I kind of gotaway from your question, I guess.
But he was living with with variousgirlfriends. One girlfriend threw him out at
(03:53):
one point and she called me onthe phone and she said, I threw
all of his clothes out the window. I threw everything out the window.
You know, he's a drug addict. And I immediately disliked her. I
didn't like her. I didn't Ididn't want to hear that. One day
I found to me what looked likea little wax paper piece of wax paper,
(04:18):
maybe smaller than the size of thedime on the floor in the laundry
room at home. He wasn't livingthere then. And I remember having seen
that at a conference that I waspart of as a teacher, where they
had a display board and this iswhat marijuana looks like. This is what
(04:44):
vicodin looks like. This is whata bag looks like, you know,
And they had little packages with rubberbands, and in my head, I
was like, holy crap, thisis you know what this is. This
is serious business. Not very longafter that, my dog had a seizure
type of thing where she just wasshe was out of it. We took
(05:08):
her to the vet. We couldn'tfigure it out, and he was living
with us at the time, Andwhat we discovered had happened was when he
was sleeping and had taken suboxone,his saliva had drooled off the side of
his lip. Dog was kissing,licking, and dog got high. She
(05:28):
recovered and everything was okay, butit just started to get worse and worse.
I was embarrassed. I didn't knowwhere to go with it. I
didn't tell my friends, I didn'ttell my own mom, but I knew
something was wrong. But I neverthought that my son was using heroin.
(05:59):
I just I wouldn't let myself believethat that was something that was even possible
with the love and support and theyou know, the family life that we
had. So it wasn't until mysister called me one day and said,
you know, we have a seriousproblem here and my nephew is I'm going
(06:24):
to have him arrested because he's usedmy credit cards and he stole them whenever
he was at the house. Andshe said to me, I met with
him today. We met up ata local ice cream shop and he told
me and he shared with me thathe was an addict. And she immediately,
(06:49):
of course shared that with me andsaid, if he doesn't go get
help, I'm going to have himarrested. And that was at the beginning
of a week. By Friday ofthat week, we were able to go
to to a branch of Gateway Ithink out in Cranberry or something him that
(07:14):
all I did I did, andhe did not deny. He did not
deny to this day. He tellsme he was high as a kite when
he went to the intake interview andyou know, we're standing, we're waiting
there. There was a middle agedwoman who you could just as the mother
(07:38):
of an addict. I feel likeI'm stereotypical sometimes because I can look at
If he gave me a lineup andthey said, point out the addict,
I feel like I could probably dothat because I got so used to looking
at him. Nevertheless, there weretimes where he would come over to help
me and his elbow would fall offthe side of the table and he started
(08:01):
to, you know, started nodding. And I never knew any of these.
I never knew anything about any ofthis, and I didn't I still
didn't really want to know. Anyhow, we did the intake on Friday.
My sister was insistent that he goesbecause he said he would he needs to
go tomorrow, fearful that he wouldnot. He would not continue to agree
(08:24):
to go and come up with excuses, and he did. He had excuses.
I have to do this, Ihave to do that. Sunday came
and my sister and my dad,who is elderly at the time he was
eighty something, confronted him while hewas at the car wash cleaning out his
car. He doesn't have that caranymore because he claimed he couldn't drive it
(08:50):
because there was too much blood spatteredfrom him using in the car. It
was that bad. It was aSunday. Then my husband I could not.
I could not. I just couldn'tfunction. My husband drove our son
to moffat Gateway, dropped him offand that was the first, the first
(09:18):
time that I really believed that myson was a drug addict. He stayed
in Gateway, impatient. He didnot buck the system, you know.
He would tell me how he wasthrowing up and how sick he was,
and about various roommates that he hadand how sick they were, and there
(09:39):
were there was quite a quite agap in I would say it seemed like
years where he wasn't able to contacthome. And then he was given permission
slowly to be able to make aphone call. But it could only be
for so long. And it's funnybecause every time my phone rang, I
(10:03):
think I had a mini stroke.I was just I was so afraid because
I had enabled him over the yearswhen he wasn't when he wasn't working full
time, and on my way homefrom work, I'd stop by his apartment
and you know, stick thirty dollars, forty dollars. He kept his boots
outside. I'm I'd stick him inhis boots and I'd go home, thinking,
(10:24):
he's probably really hungry and he's notmaking that much money. And I
would never let my child go hungry. You know, as it turns out,
now I hear him, you know, he'll say to me, hungry.
I got five dollars worth of gas, and I went and bought dope
with the rest. And you know, I argued with your mom, I
don't need anything. I don't needany money. And I just I feel
(10:50):
now that I could have helped him, and I could have done things differently,
but I did not want to acceptthe fact that he was struggle with
this disease. So he went throughabout a year impatient at Gateway. It
was a wonderful experience just learning theprocess. Family members could visit on Sundays.
(11:16):
I would go, my husband wouldgo, Grandpa would go, a
niece would go. And the peoplethat were closest to us were so instrumental
in his recovery. You know,if it weren't for my sister and my
dad, who you know, basicallythreatened him to some extent, I don't
(11:39):
believe that he would be alive today. What do you think was the turning
point for you and your family whileyour son was in the program? How
do you mean turning point? Well, you've literally communicated a lot of the
things that John and I have talkedabout, the enabling excuse me, the
behaviors are concerned, the OBO fallingoff the table. What do you think
(12:01):
was the most instrumental, the mostimportant part of your son and your family's
treatment when he was in Gateways program. It's hard, that's hard to it's
hard to answer, but knowing thatit was real when my family knew because
he was stealing from them, andmy sister was just she she pushed and
(12:24):
he did not buck and she shewent to visit him and it was so
it's so emotional. You we talka lot about shame. I was embarrassed.
Yeah, I was embarrassed. Iwas you know, I'm at my
work. I was close to somany people and never would I dare say
(12:50):
anything to anyone about what I wasgoing through. And now you've gone through
the process where you were actually ableto accept being here and talk about the
situation openly. I am, Iam, and I hope that you know.
Some of the words that I givetoday are some of the things that
(13:11):
you take from from listening to me. Let you know that addiction is a
disease. If a drug addict wantshelp, there is so much available to
them, but they have to wantto get better. It's just like being
(13:33):
diabetic. You know you have adisease and you have to take that shot
of insulin in order to regulate yoursugar. I just I'm getting better.
You know, my son, he'sbeen clean for three and a half years.
He still lives within the realm ofrecovery. He lives in a he
(13:58):
went from a halfway house, agateway to a three quarterhouse. He lives
outside of Alleghany County and has beensuccessful in living with other recovering addicts who
they have each other to share theirstories with. It's incredible. So your
(14:20):
son's developed, as we then,so he has outside of the immediate family,
like with you and your husband.He's developed a social structure with people
who are in recovery as well.Yes, as a matter of fact,
he went to a couple of differentlived in a couple of different houses.
At this point, he's the managerof a house where there are eight I
(14:41):
got a question for Jerry. Howimportant is developing that we that's paramount going
to meetings, getting a sponsor,finding people who are as motivated as you,
because you're only going to be asstrong as your weakest friend. You
know what I mean? So well, a lot of these people who before
recovery, the friends are all enabling. Oh listen, not only all enabling,
(15:03):
they're usually all in the same circle. So again, like we talk
about in our family program, youhave to cut the people out of your
life that are going to be detrimentalto you. And again, it doesn't
matter if you can be around themone time, five times and they don't
use the sixth time you hang outwith them, they might bring something out.
Are you strong enough? Do youeven want to face that with the
people that you quote care about thatyou've been around for so long. So
(15:24):
when we talk about developing your WIIwith people not only that you may have
never met before, but people inthe rooms and people that either have similar
stories or stories that are no likenothing like yours. It's important in paramount
to your recovery because that's how youcontinue to grow through yourself, within the
meetings, within working your steps,within calling your sponsor, within the whole
dynamic of what your recovery becomes.Your recovery is so much more than just
(15:48):
going to either a detox or animpatient and then a long term and then
getting out. Your recovery is lifelong. But it's a matter of what do
you do with that lifelong aspect ofit, because I've seen plenty of people
who have gotten five ten years andnot that they've gone over confident, but
something happens and then everything changes again. Do you realize that relapses is I
(16:10):
do? And I feel extremely blessedthat our son went to Gateway one time.
He went through the program at Gatewayone time. He didn't walk out
of there. When I went tovisit, I would see, you know,
people with a suitcase leaving, andit ripped my heart out. He
(16:37):
goes to an assist three and ahalf years into his recovery because he's he's
always going to be in recovery.He'll never be fully recovered. He I
lost my train of thought here fora second, well, I do have
a question. Yes, you know, we talk a lot about shame and
embarrassment. You acknowledge that his aunt, and you have other family members,
(17:03):
his grandfather, you know, theyfeel that shame and embarrassment as well.
Has he been able to at least, you know, patch up some of
those some of those relationships he absolutelyhas, and is he is getting past
the point of embarrassment. When hewould come come to come home to visit
(17:26):
and those people that were instrumental inhim agreeing to get help were around,
he was incredibly embarrassed and I wasso embarrassed. And it was the people
that I love the most and thepeople that love me the most, and
it just it sucks you into thisthis mode of embarrassment, and you just
(17:52):
you almost look behind you sometimes tomake sure that that something's not happening,
or you know, you wait forthat phone call from a complete stranger.
As you were saying a couple ofminutes ago, he goes to meetings three,
four, sometimes five days a week. There are things that he shares
with his peers who are in therooms, as they say, which I
(18:18):
didn't understand what that even meant,but those are you know, you go
to an aar and on meeting andthey're in a church or they're in a
building and it's in the basement andit's cold and it's dreary. And I've
gone to a couple with my son. I went to a meeting with him
to celebrate his one year anniversary,and I was just taken back by the
(18:45):
things that people shared because they arenot embarrassed when they are with their peers,
and they gained strength from people inthe rooms who you know, they
get their phone numbers, they haveconversations. They have the same disease,
so they can talk about it.And I hate to compare it to something
(19:07):
like, I don't know, evencancer. You know, people develop a
relationship with those people who have similarillnesses and they go through treatment and they
you know, they go through moretreatment and eventually they ring the bell.
And my son, he's rung thebell. What is more more, what
(19:30):
is stronger? What is more powerfulthe embarrassment, the shame, or the
love and healing you have for yourson. The love and healing is way
more powerful than embarrassment. At thispoint, have you got to the point
where you're actually proud of your sonbecause he's gone through this and it's a
(19:53):
difficult journey. I couldn't have saidit better myself. I am, we
are. My whole family is hisfriends, even even you know, social
media people who I've come in contactwith. It got to a point where
he was no longer embarrassed and hewas proud of himself. He was so
(20:15):
proud that he was willing to sharehis journey of recovery with complete strangers and
posted on social media. And atthat point I was it was it was
very hard for me to read thatstory or to to look at that,
(20:36):
because I didn't want my people atwork to, oh, my god,
her son, he's a drug addict. Look at her, you know she
she doesn't look like she would bethe mother of a drug addict. It
just you go through embarrassment, yougo through codependency, You go through so
many changes, as does that addict. And you can our son, I
(21:02):
think, will continue to go tothe rooms and continue to have his close
knit bunch of friends who are alsoin recovery. That you know, he's
been fortunate. He's lost friends whilehe's been in recovery. He has called
me and shared it with me.He has also shared things that happen in
(21:23):
the house where he lives with people, But there are also things that he
will not He doesn't want to goback, and he doesn't. He never
wants to talk about the past.And when I commended him for him being
clean for a year, his commentwas a normal, mom, I'm getting
(21:48):
normal. What do you mean youdon't have You don't congratulate someone for being
normal, Well you do. Iwant to congratulate him, but I also
want to congratulate you and for sharingthat story, because it's an important story
to tell and your perspective is veryimportant, and I want to thank you
absolutely, thank you so much forletting me speak. This is Gateway Rehabs
(22:11):
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