May 4, 2023 • 25 mins
Steve welcomes back friend of the podcast, Jo Walduck, to discuss navigating life's challenges and overcoming ruts in your recovery while staying sober.
For more Jo, follow her on IG @jowalkduck - and follow us while you are at it @gayapodcast
Check out our Post-Show to hear us talk about the harms of diet culture at www.patreon.com/gayapodcast
Until next time, stay sober friends!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Steve (00:04):
Hi everyone and welcome to Gay a, a podcast at sobriety
for the LGBT plus community andour allies.
I'm your host, Steve Bennett.
Martin.
I am an alcoholic and I'mgrateful for my favorite flavor,
blue raspberry.
As of this recording, I am 632days sober, and today we are
welcoming back friend of thePod.
Joe, welcome back.
Jo (00:25):
thank you so much for having me back.
Thank
Steve (00:27):
you.
Yes, you, you were my firsthandful of guests way back in
the day.
What's been new this past yearor so?
Oh
Jo (00:34):
my God, I was, I was thinking about that.
So it's been a year, I think itwas January, January, 2022 when
we recorded within like threedays of recording.
Last time my dad died.
mm-hmm.
Which is obviously not funny butwas kind of expected and had.
Like had cast a shadow over mostof 2021.
(00:56):
Like 2021 was a complete shitshow for most of the world
anyway.
And particularly in my, in myprivate life.
And so my dad finally going,he'd been ill for a long time.
It was devastating.
And also there was, there wasrelief involved in that.
So.
Took up some of last year.
There has been obviously a hugeamount of family drama and I
(01:18):
finally moved to the seaside.
I moved in in October of lastyear.
It took longer to make happenthan I thought it was going to,
and.
but it's done.
And like I was telling you justbefore we hit record, I have
just come back from the beach.
Like I, I get to go to the seaevery single day.
I get to see the ocean, I get tosalute and connect with, with
(01:40):
mom and nature.
And so I'm, I'm really, it'sbeen a t tumultuous three, three
and a half years since, since Icame into recovering.
And I, I feel like.
I'm, I'm in the right place.
Things are, things are settlingdown in a nice sight.
Steve (01:58):
Excellent.
I can certainly relate to thelove of being near the water
being, I'm like 10 to 15 minutesfrom the beach.
I don't go enough.
But it's nice to know that it's
Jo (02:05):
there.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
It really
Steve (02:09):
is.
Yeah.
And coming back, why would youchoose the topic sober, but.
Jo (02:15):
I mean, it's kind of my bread and butter, right?
Yeah.
Like with the, with the job thatI do, with the coaching that I
do.
So my background is in life andbusiness coaching, and then I
ended up specializing in like,in doing that with people in
recovery as well as doing likerecovery coaching with people
who are seeking to enterrecovery.
And so the sober but stuck is,it's the stuff that I love It's
(02:39):
when people are like, okay, wellno, I'm sober and, and.
Holy fuck, I'm trans.
How do I deal with that?
Or now I'm sober.
I'm like the, the realizationsof the, the shit that we've been
kind of blurring the edges inorder to avoid seeing and avoid
dealing with.
That's what I love working onpeople with in recovery, like,
(03:00):
okay, great, we've, we'veremoved this huge obstacle of
alcohol, other drugs, otherbehaviors.
Now we get to climb the fuckingmountain.
How are, how are we gonna dothat?
So it's great.
Like, I love being kind.
sharper for them.
I don't do any mountain climbingin like real life So it's fun to
do it with peoplemetaphorically.
(03:20):
Yeah, I can
Steve (03:21):
understand.
Yeah.
And I love this topic because itwas recommended by a listener
and out of like all the topics Isend out to people, everyone,
like I had a lot, a lot ofpeople we're gonna get a lot of
different perspectives on thistopic.
So Yeah.
Very, very excited to dive intoit with someone with expertise
and like talks about it all day.
Cuz a lot of us were like, we'restuck and we don't know what to
do.
So let's talk about for a littlewhile and figure it out.
(03:41):
Yeah, for sure.
But how do you reflect back onwhat it was like before getting
sober for
Jo (03:47):
you?
I really do my best to, to lookback with as much compassion and
empathy for that person aspossible.
And that is not to say that Idon't have an absolute bitch in
my head it was like you wereterrible.
Nobody liked you.
It was all your fault.
I just tried to kind of move heras far away from the microphone
(04:09):
as possible and tap into the,you know, the, the compassion,
the compassionate voice.
I, I do truly believe that, youknow, we don't beat ourselves up
into recovery.
We don't beat ourselves up intoprogress in our lives.
We can't beat ourselves intohealing or into growth.
And so it doesn.
help me to go over and, and bereally mean to myself about the
(04:31):
stuff that, that I did, thechoices that I made, right?
It's all, we survive in the waysthat we can for as long as we
can until we, we learn betterand we have the tools to do
better.
Nice.
So, yeah, I dunno if that,
Steve (04:45):
yeah, and I could, I could definitely see that that,
that being something that willhelp.
Cuz a lot of us are our ownworst critics.
Like I know for me, I will talkor say things about myself that
I would never say about anyoneelse in my life that I care
about or even know, or likestrangers.
I wouldn't say these things too.
So like why do I think it's okayto say them to myself?
Jo (05:03):
Yeah.
Do you have people around youwho can gently call you out on
that when you're being.
I mean to
Steve (05:10):
yourself.
Well, I've learned not to do itout loud because no one in my
family will stand for it.
So it is mostly internalself-talk.
It doesn't come out cuz peoplewill call me out on it
immediately and be like, stopSteve.
So I do fight it.
So like I, I do have to likelook back on the old person like
that.
I was before getting sober withcompassion.
But I also think.
(05:31):
Common.
I, I've heard at least, and I'veseen even like, had moments
where I kind of look back on thetime before getting sober with
like rose colored glasses oflike, oh, it wasn't, maybe it
wasn't as bad.
Like, okay, maybe I'm justmaking it out to be worse cuz I
am my own worst critic and Iwasn't that much of a drunker
alcoholic and I have to likesnap myself, like, slap myself
across the face and be justlike, no, it, it was bad and
(05:53):
like it wasn't getting anybetter and you tried everything.
And so I also think that like,yes, compassion certainly helps,
but also like also rememberinghow bad it was can also help
too, and being
Jo (06:03):
realistic.
Yeah, for sure.
For sure.
Yeah.
And saying like, it might nothave been as bad as other
people, but it was bad enough.
It was bad enough for me to needto change me to want to change.
Now I've done it, I'm not gonnago back.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Steve (06:20):
And what sort of tools or programs did you use at first?
Jo (06:25):
So I I used denial at first but that was really helpful for
the first few weeks and months.
I, I signed up for, for a 28 daychallenge.
I was like, I'm just not gonnadrink for 28 days.
There was no recognition of I'man alcoholic, I'm an addict, I
have a dependency.
Like, there was none of thatshit.
It was just, I'm gonna, I hadjust yeah, I'd just been
(06:48):
certified as a.
Professional, pro, professional,certified coach, and was like
setting up my, my company.
And so I was like, I'm gonnatake four weeks off the OS and
give myself, you know, plenty ofenergy and plenty of motivation
and I'm gonna get everythingdone.
And that, that didn't happen.
I worked on my sobriety for fourweeks full time.
(07:10):
I was in a group called one YearNo Beer, who were really helpful
back then.
No, I'm not gonna talk aboutanymore about how they aren't
today.
They're helpful for some peopleand they're making money for a
guy at the top But it was reallyhelpful for me to be part of a
huge, I think there was like15,000 people at the time, this
(07:33):
huge group of people online,some of whom were, you know,
days, weeks, months, yearsahead.
Some around my day count, somecoming up behind me and spending
that much time talking to peoplewithout, like, I don't want to
trash talk AA because again,they have saved millions of
lives and changed millions oflives and done all of that.
(07:54):
But without the whole, like, Ihave to sit down and say I'm an
alcoholic and this is a problemfor me, and blah, blah, blah.
Like I wasn't ready to do that.
A lot of people aren't ready todo that, and so this was a great
kind of intermediary step for.
To, to talk, to talk aboutaddictions and addictive
behaviors with other people.
And to kind of put, you know,some of my coaching skills to
(08:15):
good use.
So really that community was,that was a game changer for me.
Cuz all of the, the other peoplethat I'd spoken about alcohol
with.
Were the other alcoholics whohad surrounded myself.
Right?
Yeah.
So we'd be like, oh, it's beenterrible that we're drinking so
much wine, blah la la this isawful.
Next time let's not drink asmuch wine.
(08:36):
And obviously that neverchanged.
So there was that.
There was community alcohol freedrinks.
I probably downed a bottle ofnasty ass alcohol-free wine
every night.
Definitely for the first threemonths.
I'm alcohol-free beers all thetime, and I was just like, I'm,
because I drank a lotpreviously.
(08:57):
Like I was a, I was functioningnot too badly, but I was, I was
drinking a fuckton.
And so I drank a fuckton ofalcohol-free drinks and I was
kind of, It's not exactlydenial, but like I was telling
my body, it's fine.
We're we're still drinking aload of fun stuff just without
the, you know, without theactual alcohol in it.
(09:20):
So that, that was really, reallyhelpful and that kind of tapered
off slowly and then almostcompletely it comes back.
in handy.
If I have wobbly moments it'sgreat for like celebrations and
stuff, but I am nowhere neardrinking a bottle of wine of,
you know, fake wine Yeah.
Night.
(09:41):
Anymore, which is fantastic.
Like I just kind of trusted mybuddy interested the process and
gave myself what my body wassaying.
Hello, can we have this?
for as long as they were sayingthat
Steve (09:50):
for me.
Yeah, I can certainly relate.
I know that, but especially backwhen I was in sales and doing
all the marketing events, like Idon't know what I would've done
without alcohol, free beerbecause like I was never even a
beer drinker.
So like, I think that like if Ihad something that tasted like
my drink of choice, like itmight have triggered me, but I
was like, I never, like, beerwas ineffective at getting me
tanked So I never searched forbeer, but like, like going out
(10:14):
and having a non-alcoholic beerwhen I'm a.
Full of people drinking.
Like if it, it was a reallynice, like buffer at first, so I
didn't, yeah, because at fir atfirst I was like, everyone's
gonna judge me for not drinking.
Now I realize like, no onecares.
Like they're too busy drinkingto care about whether you're
drinking.
Jo (10:30):
They're too busy thinking about what, what's in there,
guys?
Yeah.
Right.
And am I drinking too fast?
Can afford the next drink.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Steve (10:37):
And how have the tools that you use to keep you sober
changed over the course of yourrecovery?
Jo (10:43):
So therapy was another one.
I was, I was in gentle therapywhen I started from like, you
know, I had been for years.
That is continuing.
Like I, it's, I think therapy isamazing.
Therapy is not necessarily asign that everything's awful.
Therapy could be really helpfuland getting good things to be
great.
And also like, you know, forpeople doing the, the kind of
(11:05):
work that I do, it's really goodto have somebody else that we
can just.
you know, take our shit too.
So therapy is, is still very,very important to me.
Being coached is still very,very important to me.
Alcohol free drinks, like Isaid, less so.
2021.
I spent a lot of time in Walesat my sister's place on the
coast.
(11:26):
And so going to the water everyday, like I grew up on the water
and then when I was 18, left andessentially spent 20 years, like
not on the water, not on thecoast.
And so moving back here, leftOctober to, to the coast in, in
Normandy, France, where I am.
I go there every day, right?
I, I go there every day and Iconnect to myself ethnic to the,
(11:50):
to the world.
Like to, to nature, not topeople.
Yeah.
I don't, I don't need to connectto any more people I'm just not,
it, it was interesting hearingyou talk about the marketing
life, like there was a momentprobably within the first six
months, there were a few momentswhere I was like, my life is
changing too rapidly with thetransition with.
(12:14):
Quitting alcohol and thenquitting nicotine.
And like, you know, my, my lifepreviously had been surrounded
by alcohol and nicotine likethey were the two main
ingredients.
And so I was kind of trying tokeep old circles of friends, old
friendships going like, it'sfine.
It's still me.
I'm still the same person.
I'm just not drinking the same,the same drinks anymore.
(12:36):
Like, I'm still gonna go to yourparties and I'm still gonna.
Pen grand for 12 fucking hourswhile we talk about drywall.
And everybody else gets drunkand so doesn't realize how
boring this conversation is.
And I'm gonna stay because I'mthe same person.
And now I'm just like, you knowwhat?
I don't give a fuck about whatyou're talking about.
Like, I want to talk to peoplewho are exciting and I wanna be
(12:57):
able to go home when I'm readyto go.
And sometimes that's two o'clockin the morning and sometimes
it's nine 30 Yeah.
At night, right?
Like, I'm sober, I'm done.
And I don't have to prove myselfto you anymore because Yeah.
Like I am fully not even okaywith my decision.
I'm super fucking proud of mydecision to, to get sober and to
(13:17):
stay sober.
And so that authenticity, that,that confidence in our own
selves, in our own choices, Ithink is really, I.
Yeah, so I'm glad.
Steve (13:27):
Yeah, I can agree.
And I, I love that the peopleclose to my life all know that I
go, like my home group on Zoomis like at 9:00 PM every night.
So like I, and like I'm at thepoint now where I don't go every
day, but I, like, if I'm havinga rough day, I know that it's
there at the end of the day.
And so like at eight 30 everyonewill check their watch and
they're like, do you need to goSteve And like, at that point,
(13:48):
like, I can make the decision oflike, yes, I do need to go, or
like, yes, I, I'll, I'll stayand I, I'll go tomorrow.
Jo (13:55):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's
Steve (13:57):
super cool.
Yeah.
And you might have touched on itat the beginning of the episode,
but what's one of the moredifficult moments you faced in
recovery?
Jo (14:05):
Jesus.
I mean, my world, exploded.
Yeah.
I, yeah, got sober, then quitnicotine, then realized, I
always knew, but came out astrans, like less than three
months sober.
Then my dad got diagnosed withcancer.
Then the pandemic started, thenI got covid.
(14:26):
Then the, my Covid never wentaway.
Like I've been dealing with longcovid for, it'll be three years
in October.
Then like my dad not dealingwell with me coming out then his
husband getting sick then hishusband dying then.
Family estrangement, not beingable to visit my dad.
(14:46):
Then my dad died, then I wasill.
Like, there have been a fewpeaks, Andros, I feel like I've,
how
Steve (14:53):
have you done that?
All
Jo (14:53):
sober.
I, the only way that I've doneit all sober, I like hello?
Trigger warning.
But I think that if I was stilldrinking, I would be dead.
Mm-hmm.
If I hadn't gotten sober when Idid.
And I've said this to peoplebecause quite a lot of people
are, you know, say that how, howhave you done this sober?
(15:14):
And I'm so glad that I got soberkind of by chance, right?
Kind of at a random, randomtime.
There was no official rockbottom.
There was no dui, there was noarrest, there was no
particularly scary situation.
And the fact that I was sober,in order to navigate all of
(15:35):
those things, really helped mebecause otherwise there would've
been, I don't have a driver'slicense, but there would've been
some kind of D U I therewould've been some kind of
police involvement.
And so for every boss level thatI have fought, I've just
thought, thank fuck, I'm alreadysober.
Right?
Thank fuck.
I've done the getting sober partand now this is, this is a big
(15:56):
old challenge for me to staysober through this.
what was it?
Chichi?
Chichi said like, if you, if youif you stay ready, you don't
have to get ready.
Yeah.
And so like, if he stays sober,you don't have to get sober
again.
Yeah.
Right.
Steve (16:08):
I love that.
Yeah.
And so how do you overcome rutsyou may have encountered in your
recovery?
Jo (16:16):
I don't I haven't, it, I haven't had enough, like normal
time.
To fall into a ride.
Mm-hmm.
There have been too
Steve (16:26):
many crises.
Fair enough.
Yeah.
It's been quite therollercoaster, so
Jo (16:30):
it has been a gigantic rollercoaster.
Absolutely.
I am, I'm desperate for like aneasy ass year where I can be
like, oh my God, I'm so bored.
What do I do next?
Right.
Steve (16:41):
Yeah.
Well, what kind of ruts do youhear people talk?
Jo (16:47):
So a lot of them are to do with relationships, really.
Relationships with self,relationship with body,
relationship with familymembers, rela romantic
relationships familyrelationships.
It's, again, it's that thing ofonce you take the, the beer
goggles off, you're like, fuck,this is, this is hard.
It's true, particularly in thebeginning, like the only thing
(17:08):
to do is, is just not drinkalcohol or to not use.
And that is, that is prioritynumber one.
But then that doesn't fixeverything.
Yeah.
Like if only it would, that'swhen the work comes in, right?
The work with the capital l wand that's where coaches come
in.
That's where our therapists comein.
That's where groups come in,programs come in and.
(17:32):
But I think, yeah, thecommunication that needs to
happen.
I think so many people who have,who live with addictions or who
live with other people who whohave lived with and through
addictions, there's so muchshame and there's so much
secrecy and there's so muchhiding.
Like what we have been throughand what we have done and what
(17:54):
we are doing and what we arestill going through now.
and I think that's, it's reallyimpor important to kind of undo
that fear of, if I share withsomebody, something bad is gonna
happen.
Right?
It's like, okay, if I share withsomebody, maybe they can help,
right?
Maybe just me being able toshare, to share what, what I'm
(18:17):
struggling with.
maybe that already being able toget it out of my head, and off
my heart, maybe that's gonna be,you know, enough of a push to,
to actually go into.
you know?
Yeah.
Into the next
Steve (18:29):
step for sure.
Yeah.
I know when I was reflectingback in our last episode with
Kristen, like I kind of, as Iwas talking through, realized
that most of my ruts that I'vebeen through were, were, because
I wasn't like doing the workwith, like you said, with a
capital w, like, it, it, it wasbecause I, like, for me, my work
looks like going to meetings,doing service, but also doing
the podcast and planning localevents for like the queer, sober
(18:52):
community and like, doing all ofthat work.
And like when I get ahead on thepodcast and I postpone some
events and there's like thatcouple weeks where I'm not doing
the work, like I'll notice thatI'm kind of feeling that rut.
But like of course cuz I'm notdoing the work that there, there
ha There have been times where Ifeel like I'm doing everything
though and it hasn't worked.
I mean, what what do yourecommend people do when they,
(19:13):
when they, when they are doingthe work but not feeling the
Jo (19:15):
results?
Oh God.
Ooh.
That's a really good questionand a really big question.
Okay, so there's trust, theprocess, number one, I think
again here, community reallyhelps where you, where you can
go and be understood by peopleand be like, you know, I am, I
(19:38):
feel like I'm doing all of thework and I'm not seeing the.
Is this normal, right?
Mm-hmm.
you're gonna get a few dickheadswho are like, no, it's not
normal.
Maybe you're not doing the workproperly.
And then you're gonna get someother people who are like, girl,
I am so far, like I'm so muchfurther behind you.
Like, you're doing amazinglyalready.
Shut the fuck up.
This is great.
(19:58):
And then you're gonna get someother old timers who will be
like, yeah, it's fine.
Maybe trust the, trust theprocess Yeah.
Right.
It'll come in its own time.
And I think that can.
that that in itself can be agame changer of just being like,
okay, I'm not the only one who'sdoing this wrong.
Right.
Quote unquote.
And again, I mean, this is gonnabe my answer for, for many of
(20:19):
them, but, but like, if you feellike you're doing all of the
work and you are not seeing theresults and other people are
maybe hinting that perhapsyou're not working in the right
way for you, or for this projector for this, See who you can get
help from.
Mm-hmm.
right?
Is there a mentor?
Is there a sponsor?
Is there a coach?
Is there a therapist?
(20:39):
Is there somebody who can kindof walk through it with you and
see if there's any other way foryou to get to get results?
Or can you, you know, can yourejig the results that you think
that you are?
That you deserve right?
That you deserve to get.
Like what are you doing all ofthis work for?
Are you doing all of this workto get the presidential medal of
(21:01):
freedom or are you doing thiswork to be a happy, healthy, in
your own way?
Well-rounded individual?
If if it's the latter, then youare the one who decides.
You know.
Yay.
Congratulations.
Give yourself by yourself someflower Yes.
This is great.
Yeah.
Steve (21:18):
Now I'm gonna have that new Miley Cyrus song stuck in my
Jo (21:21):
head.
Yeah, I know.
We, we need to, I've had it.
Yeah.
For you it feels, yeah.
Steve (21:25):
And if a listener was struggling in their recovery,
what advice do you have forthem?
Jo (21:32):
Talk, reach out, find someone.
Find a group if you.
If a 12 step program does notfeel right for you, find
something that isn't 12 steppy,right?
Find someone if you don't wantanybody that you know to know
create an anonymous Facebookaccount.
Create an anonymous Instagramaccount.
(21:54):
Like it, it doesn't have to be,it doesn't have to be
everything.
You know, you don't have to bearyour soul and your face and your
fucking social security number,like all at the same time.
But do reach out and find, findsomebody because I mean, the
whole thing about service,whether it's in, whether it's
within a, a 12 step program orwhether it's just like I've got
(22:17):
sober and so I'm reaching out myhand to other people.
I think most of us in recoverydo that.
You know, at some point it kindof comes naturally to us to be
like, Come over to the fun sideof the island, right?
Come over.
Come over here.
Like, can I help you?
Yeah.
Maybe.
Can I pull you?
Steve (22:33):
Excellent.
Do you have any last thoughts orbits of pearls of wisdom on
overcoming ruts?
Yes.
Jo (22:43):
Hang on.
I wrote, I wrote the link down.
figure out what the problem is,right?
Get clear on what the root iswhat it's, and what it's
representing.
What is the rep representing?
Then figure out if at allpossible, if you can do this by
yourself.
Congratulations.
If you need a therapist or acoach or somebody to walk
(23:03):
through it with.
That's great.
That's what we, we are here for.
Figure out what the need isunderneath.
Right.
The underlying need.
I still think of cravings astoddler messengers to say there
is some kind of need that is notbeing met right now.
And I know that if I get, if Iget a craving for alcohol, I'm
(23:23):
like, okay, alright, where'sthe, where's the messenger?
like what is this craving?
What is this need?
Then once you've identified theneed, it's a simple process of
thinking, okay, right.
Is this a need that I can meet?
Right?
Or how can I meet this need?
In what way?
What's the, what's a goal thatis realistic that I can set
myself?
(23:44):
And once you've got the goal,you define the steps, and then
you take the first one, and thenyou take the second one, and
then you take the third one, andthen you meet it.
And.
Slightly simplified obviously,but that's pretty much the
process.
Right?
Identify the problem, figure outthe need, goal steps.
Mm-hmm.
do it and take an action.
Steve (24:04):
Wonderful.
And if, if someone wanted toconnect with you to talk more or
possibly get some coaching orsome guidance, how would they
find you?
Jo (24:12):
They would find me on the Instagram and the Facebook just
under Joe Waldock.
So Joe, g J.
The French came in then.
J o Wal, w a l d u c k.
And my website will be liveagain by then.
And that's just joe wal.com.
Perfect.
Steve (24:31):
Excellent.
Well stick around because I hearyou wanna talk about diet
culture.
Jo (24:37):
I don't wanna talk, I wanna runt.
Excellent
Steve (24:40):
Well, if you're interested in hearing more about
Joe and our thoughts on dietculture, head on over to our
patreonPage@patreon.com slashgay.
And if you're interested insharing your story or just
saying, hi, I'm an emailaway@gaypodcastgmail.com or on
Instagram at gay podcast.
(25:00):
Be sure to follow us whereveryou're listening so you can get
these new episodes when theycome out each Thursday.
Until next time, stay soberfriends.
Hi everyone and welcome to Gay a, a podcast at sobriety
for the LGBT plus community andour allies.
I'm your host, Steve Bennett.
Martin.
I am an alcoholic and I'mgrateful for my favorite flavor,
blue raspberry.
As of this recording, I am 632days sober, and today we are
welcoming back friend of thePod.
Joe, welcome back.
Jo (00:25):
thank you so much for having me back.
Thank
Steve (00:27):
you.
Yes, you, you were my firsthandful of guests way back in
the day.
What's been new this past yearor so?
Oh
Jo (00:34):
my God, I was, I was thinking about that.
So it's been a year, I think itwas January, January, 2022 when
we recorded within like threedays of recording.
Last time my dad died.
mm-hmm.
Which is obviously not funny butwas kind of expected and had.
Like had cast a shadow over mostof 2021.
(00:56):
Like 2021 was a complete shitshow for most of the world
anyway.
And particularly in my, in myprivate life.
And so my dad finally going,he'd been ill for a long time.
It was devastating.
And also there was, there wasrelief involved in that.
So.
Took up some of last year.
There has been obviously a hugeamount of family drama and I
(01:18):
finally moved to the seaside.
I moved in in October of lastyear.
It took longer to make happenthan I thought it was going to,
and.
but it's done.
And like I was telling you justbefore we hit record, I have
just come back from the beach.
Like I, I get to go to the seaevery single day.
I get to see the ocean, I get tosalute and connect with, with
(01:40):
mom and nature.
And so I'm, I'm really, it'sbeen a t tumultuous three, three
and a half years since, since Icame into recovering.
And I, I feel like.
I'm, I'm in the right place.
Things are, things are settlingdown in a nice sight.
Steve (01:58):
Excellent.
I can certainly relate to thelove of being near the water
being, I'm like 10 to 15 minutesfrom the beach.
I don't go enough.
But it's nice to know that it's
Jo (02:05):
there.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
It really
Steve (02:09):
is.
Yeah.
And coming back, why would youchoose the topic sober, but.
Jo (02:15):
I mean, it's kind of my bread and butter, right?
Yeah.
Like with the, with the job thatI do, with the coaching that I
do.
So my background is in life andbusiness coaching, and then I
ended up specializing in like,in doing that with people in
recovery as well as doing likerecovery coaching with people
who are seeking to enterrecovery.
And so the sober but stuck is,it's the stuff that I love It's
(02:39):
when people are like, okay, wellno, I'm sober and, and.
Holy fuck, I'm trans.
How do I deal with that?
Or now I'm sober.
I'm like the, the realizationsof the, the shit that we've been
kind of blurring the edges inorder to avoid seeing and avoid
dealing with.
That's what I love working onpeople with in recovery, like,
(03:00):
okay, great, we've, we'veremoved this huge obstacle of
alcohol, other drugs, otherbehaviors.
Now we get to climb the fuckingmountain.
How are, how are we gonna dothat?
So it's great.
Like, I love being kind.
sharper for them.
I don't do any mountain climbingin like real life So it's fun to
do it with peoplemetaphorically.
(03:20):
Yeah, I can
Steve (03:21):
understand.
Yeah.
And I love this topic because itwas recommended by a listener
and out of like all the topics Isend out to people, everyone,
like I had a lot, a lot ofpeople we're gonna get a lot of
different perspectives on thistopic.
So Yeah.
Very, very excited to dive intoit with someone with expertise
and like talks about it all day.
Cuz a lot of us were like, we'restuck and we don't know what to
do.
So let's talk about for a littlewhile and figure it out.
(03:41):
Yeah, for sure.
But how do you reflect back onwhat it was like before getting
sober for
Jo (03:47):
you?
I really do my best to, to lookback with as much compassion and
empathy for that person aspossible.
And that is not to say that Idon't have an absolute bitch in
my head it was like you wereterrible.
Nobody liked you.
It was all your fault.
I just tried to kind of move heras far away from the microphone
(04:09):
as possible and tap into the,you know, the, the compassion,
the compassionate voice.
I, I do truly believe that, youknow, we don't beat ourselves up
into recovery.
We don't beat ourselves up intoprogress in our lives.
We can't beat ourselves intohealing or into growth.
And so it doesn.
help me to go over and, and bereally mean to myself about the
(04:31):
stuff that, that I did, thechoices that I made, right?
It's all, we survive in the waysthat we can for as long as we
can until we, we learn betterand we have the tools to do
better.
Nice.
So, yeah, I dunno if that,
Steve (04:45):
yeah, and I could, I could definitely see that that,
that being something that willhelp.
Cuz a lot of us are our ownworst critics.
Like I know for me, I will talkor say things about myself that
I would never say about anyoneelse in my life that I care
about or even know, or likestrangers.
I wouldn't say these things too.
So like why do I think it's okayto say them to myself?
Jo (05:03):
Yeah.
Do you have people around youwho can gently call you out on
that when you're being.
I mean to
Steve (05:10):
yourself.
Well, I've learned not to do itout loud because no one in my
family will stand for it.
So it is mostly internalself-talk.
It doesn't come out cuz peoplewill call me out on it
immediately and be like, stopSteve.
So I do fight it.
So like I, I do have to likelook back on the old person like
that.
I was before getting sober withcompassion.
But I also think.
(05:31):
Common.
I, I've heard at least, and I'veseen even like, had moments
where I kind of look back on thetime before getting sober with
like rose colored glasses oflike, oh, it wasn't, maybe it
wasn't as bad.
Like, okay, maybe I'm justmaking it out to be worse cuz I
am my own worst critic and Iwasn't that much of a drunker
alcoholic and I have to likesnap myself, like, slap myself
across the face and be justlike, no, it, it was bad and
(05:53):
like it wasn't getting anybetter and you tried everything.
And so I also think that like,yes, compassion certainly helps,
but also like also rememberinghow bad it was can also help
too, and being
Jo (06:03):
realistic.
Yeah, for sure.
For sure.
Yeah.
And saying like, it might nothave been as bad as other
people, but it was bad enough.
It was bad enough for me to needto change me to want to change.
Now I've done it, I'm not gonnago back.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Steve (06:20):
And what sort of tools or programs did you use at first?
Jo (06:25):
So I I used denial at first but that was really helpful for
the first few weeks and months.
I, I signed up for, for a 28 daychallenge.
I was like, I'm just not gonnadrink for 28 days.
There was no recognition of I'man alcoholic, I'm an addict, I
have a dependency.
Like, there was none of thatshit.
It was just, I'm gonna, I hadjust yeah, I'd just been
(06:48):
certified as a.
Professional, pro, professional,certified coach, and was like
setting up my, my company.
And so I was like, I'm gonnatake four weeks off the OS and
give myself, you know, plenty ofenergy and plenty of motivation
and I'm gonna get everythingdone.
And that, that didn't happen.
I worked on my sobriety for fourweeks full time.
(07:10):
I was in a group called one YearNo Beer, who were really helpful
back then.
No, I'm not gonna talk aboutanymore about how they aren't
today.
They're helpful for some peopleand they're making money for a
guy at the top But it was reallyhelpful for me to be part of a
huge, I think there was like15,000 people at the time, this
(07:33):
huge group of people online,some of whom were, you know,
days, weeks, months, yearsahead.
Some around my day count, somecoming up behind me and spending
that much time talking to peoplewithout, like, I don't want to
trash talk AA because again,they have saved millions of
lives and changed millions oflives and done all of that.
(07:54):
But without the whole, like, Ihave to sit down and say I'm an
alcoholic and this is a problemfor me, and blah, blah, blah.
Like I wasn't ready to do that.
A lot of people aren't ready todo that, and so this was a great
kind of intermediary step for.
To, to talk, to talk aboutaddictions and addictive
behaviors with other people.
And to kind of put, you know,some of my coaching skills to
(08:15):
good use.
So really that community was,that was a game changer for me.
Cuz all of the, the other peoplethat I'd spoken about alcohol
with.
Were the other alcoholics whohad surrounded myself.
Right?
Yeah.
So we'd be like, oh, it's beenterrible that we're drinking so
much wine, blah la la this isawful.
Next time let's not drink asmuch wine.
(08:36):
And obviously that neverchanged.
So there was that.
There was community alcohol freedrinks.
I probably downed a bottle ofnasty ass alcohol-free wine
every night.
Definitely for the first threemonths.
I'm alcohol-free beers all thetime, and I was just like, I'm,
because I drank a lotpreviously.
(08:57):
Like I was a, I was functioningnot too badly, but I was, I was
drinking a fuckton.
And so I drank a fuckton ofalcohol-free drinks and I was
kind of, It's not exactlydenial, but like I was telling
my body, it's fine.
We're we're still drinking aload of fun stuff just without
the, you know, without theactual alcohol in it.
(09:20):
So that, that was really, reallyhelpful and that kind of tapered
off slowly and then almostcompletely it comes back.
in handy.
If I have wobbly moments it'sgreat for like celebrations and
stuff, but I am nowhere neardrinking a bottle of wine of,
you know, fake wine Yeah.
Night.
(09:41):
Anymore, which is fantastic.
Like I just kind of trusted mybuddy interested the process and
gave myself what my body wassaying.
Hello, can we have this?
for as long as they were sayingthat
Steve (09:50):
for me.
Yeah, I can certainly relate.
I know that, but especially backwhen I was in sales and doing
all the marketing events, like Idon't know what I would've done
without alcohol, free beerbecause like I was never even a
beer drinker.
So like, I think that like if Ihad something that tasted like
my drink of choice, like itmight have triggered me, but I
was like, I never, like, beerwas ineffective at getting me
tanked So I never searched forbeer, but like, like going out
(10:14):
and having a non-alcoholic beerwhen I'm a.
Full of people drinking.
Like if it, it was a reallynice, like buffer at first, so I
didn't, yeah, because at fir atfirst I was like, everyone's
gonna judge me for not drinking.
Now I realize like, no onecares.
Like they're too busy drinkingto care about whether you're
drinking.
Jo (10:30):
They're too busy thinking about what, what's in there,
guys?
Yeah.
Right.
And am I drinking too fast?
Can afford the next drink.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Steve (10:37):
And how have the tools that you use to keep you sober
changed over the course of yourrecovery?
Jo (10:43):
So therapy was another one.
I was, I was in gentle therapywhen I started from like, you
know, I had been for years.
That is continuing.
Like I, it's, I think therapy isamazing.
Therapy is not necessarily asign that everything's awful.
Therapy could be really helpfuland getting good things to be
great.
And also like, you know, forpeople doing the, the kind of
(11:05):
work that I do, it's really goodto have somebody else that we
can just.
you know, take our shit too.
So therapy is, is still very,very important to me.
Being coached is still very,very important to me.
Alcohol free drinks, like Isaid, less so.
2021.
I spent a lot of time in Walesat my sister's place on the
coast.
(11:26):
And so going to the water everyday, like I grew up on the water
and then when I was 18, left andessentially spent 20 years, like
not on the water, not on thecoast.
And so moving back here, leftOctober to, to the coast in, in
Normandy, France, where I am.
I go there every day, right?
I, I go there every day and Iconnect to myself ethnic to the,
(11:50):
to the world.
Like to, to nature, not topeople.
Yeah.
I don't, I don't need to connectto any more people I'm just not,
it, it was interesting hearingyou talk about the marketing
life, like there was a momentprobably within the first six
months, there were a few momentswhere I was like, my life is
changing too rapidly with thetransition with.
(12:14):
Quitting alcohol and thenquitting nicotine.
And like, you know, my, my lifepreviously had been surrounded
by alcohol and nicotine likethey were the two main
ingredients.
And so I was kind of trying tokeep old circles of friends, old
friendships going like, it'sfine.
It's still me.
I'm still the same person.
I'm just not drinking the same,the same drinks anymore.
(12:36):
Like, I'm still gonna go to yourparties and I'm still gonna.
Pen grand for 12 fucking hourswhile we talk about drywall.
And everybody else gets drunkand so doesn't realize how
boring this conversation is.
And I'm gonna stay because I'mthe same person.
And now I'm just like, you knowwhat?
I don't give a fuck about whatyou're talking about.
Like, I want to talk to peoplewho are exciting and I wanna be
(12:57):
able to go home when I'm readyto go.
And sometimes that's two o'clockin the morning and sometimes
it's nine 30 Yeah.
At night, right?
Like, I'm sober, I'm done.
And I don't have to prove myselfto you anymore because Yeah.
Like I am fully not even okaywith my decision.
I'm super fucking proud of mydecision to, to get sober and to
(13:17):
stay sober.
And so that authenticity, that,that confidence in our own
selves, in our own choices, Ithink is really, I.
Yeah, so I'm glad.
Steve (13:27):
Yeah, I can agree.
And I, I love that the peopleclose to my life all know that I
go, like my home group on Zoomis like at 9:00 PM every night.
So like I, and like I'm at thepoint now where I don't go every
day, but I, like, if I'm havinga rough day, I know that it's
there at the end of the day.
And so like at eight 30 everyonewill check their watch and
they're like, do you need to goSteve And like, at that point,
(13:48):
like, I can make the decision oflike, yes, I do need to go, or
like, yes, I, I'll, I'll stayand I, I'll go tomorrow.
Jo (13:55):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's
Steve (13:57):
super cool.
Yeah.
And you might have touched on itat the beginning of the episode,
but what's one of the moredifficult moments you faced in
recovery?
Jo (14:05):
Jesus.
I mean, my world, exploded.
Yeah.
I, yeah, got sober, then quitnicotine, then realized, I
always knew, but came out astrans, like less than three
months sober.
Then my dad got diagnosed withcancer.
Then the pandemic started, thenI got covid.
(14:26):
Then the, my Covid never wentaway.
Like I've been dealing with longcovid for, it'll be three years
in October.
Then like my dad not dealingwell with me coming out then his
husband getting sick then hishusband dying then.
Family estrangement, not beingable to visit my dad.
(14:46):
Then my dad died, then I wasill.
Like, there have been a fewpeaks, Andros, I feel like I've,
how
Steve (14:53):
have you done that?
All
Jo (14:53):
sober.
I, the only way that I've doneit all sober, I like hello?
Trigger warning.
But I think that if I was stilldrinking, I would be dead.
Mm-hmm.
If I hadn't gotten sober when Idid.
And I've said this to peoplebecause quite a lot of people
are, you know, say that how, howhave you done this sober?
(15:14):
And I'm so glad that I got soberkind of by chance, right?
Kind of at a random, randomtime.
There was no official rockbottom.
There was no dui, there was noarrest, there was no
particularly scary situation.
And the fact that I was sober,in order to navigate all of
(15:35):
those things, really helped mebecause otherwise there would've
been, I don't have a driver'slicense, but there would've been
some kind of D U I therewould've been some kind of
police involvement.
And so for every boss level thatI have fought, I've just
thought, thank fuck, I'm alreadysober.
Right?
Thank fuck.
I've done the getting sober partand now this is, this is a big
(15:56):
old challenge for me to staysober through this.
what was it?
Chichi?
Chichi said like, if you, if youif you stay ready, you don't
have to get ready.
Yeah.
And so like, if he stays sober,you don't have to get sober
again.
Yeah.
Right.
Steve (16:08):
I love that.
Yeah.
And so how do you overcome rutsyou may have encountered in your
recovery?
Jo (16:16):
I don't I haven't, it, I haven't had enough, like normal
time.
To fall into a ride.
Mm-hmm.
There have been too
Steve (16:26):
many crises.
Fair enough.
Yeah.
It's been quite therollercoaster, so
Jo (16:30):
it has been a gigantic rollercoaster.
Absolutely.
I am, I'm desperate for like aneasy ass year where I can be
like, oh my God, I'm so bored.
What do I do next?
Right.
Steve (16:41):
Yeah.
Well, what kind of ruts do youhear people talk?
Jo (16:47):
So a lot of them are to do with relationships, really.
Relationships with self,relationship with body,
relationship with familymembers, rela romantic
relationships familyrelationships.
It's, again, it's that thing ofonce you take the, the beer
goggles off, you're like, fuck,this is, this is hard.
It's true, particularly in thebeginning, like the only thing
(17:08):
to do is, is just not drinkalcohol or to not use.
And that is, that is prioritynumber one.
But then that doesn't fixeverything.
Yeah.
Like if only it would, that'swhen the work comes in, right?
The work with the capital l wand that's where coaches come
in.
That's where our therapists comein.
That's where groups come in,programs come in and.
(17:32):
But I think, yeah, thecommunication that needs to
happen.
I think so many people who have,who live with addictions or who
live with other people who whohave lived with and through
addictions, there's so muchshame and there's so much
secrecy and there's so muchhiding.
Like what we have been throughand what we have done and what
(17:54):
we are doing and what we arestill going through now.
and I think that's, it's reallyimpor important to kind of undo
that fear of, if I share withsomebody, something bad is gonna
happen.
Right?
It's like, okay, if I share withsomebody, maybe they can help,
right?
Maybe just me being able toshare, to share what, what I'm
(18:17):
struggling with.
maybe that already being able toget it out of my head, and off
my heart, maybe that's gonna be,you know, enough of a push to,
to actually go into.
you know?
Yeah.
Into the next
Steve (18:29):
step for sure.
Yeah.
I know when I was reflectingback in our last episode with
Kristen, like I kind of, as Iwas talking through, realized
that most of my ruts that I'vebeen through were, were, because
I wasn't like doing the workwith, like you said, with a
capital w, like, it, it, it wasbecause I, like, for me, my work
looks like going to meetings,doing service, but also doing
the podcast and planning localevents for like the queer, sober
(18:52):
community and like, doing all ofthat work.
And like when I get ahead on thepodcast and I postpone some
events and there's like thatcouple weeks where I'm not doing
the work, like I'll notice thatI'm kind of feeling that rut.
But like of course cuz I'm notdoing the work that there, there
ha There have been times where Ifeel like I'm doing everything
though and it hasn't worked.
I mean, what what do yourecommend people do when they,
(19:13):
when they, when they are doingthe work but not feeling the
Jo (19:15):
results?
Oh God.
Ooh.
That's a really good questionand a really big question.
Okay, so there's trust, theprocess, number one, I think
again here, community reallyhelps where you, where you can
go and be understood by peopleand be like, you know, I am, I
(19:38):
feel like I'm doing all of thework and I'm not seeing the.
Is this normal, right?
Mm-hmm.
you're gonna get a few dickheadswho are like, no, it's not
normal.
Maybe you're not doing the workproperly.
And then you're gonna get someother people who are like, girl,
I am so far, like I'm so muchfurther behind you.
Like, you're doing amazinglyalready.
Shut the fuck up.
This is great.
(19:58):
And then you're gonna get someother old timers who will be
like, yeah, it's fine.
Maybe trust the, trust theprocess Yeah.
Right.
It'll come in its own time.
And I think that can.
that that in itself can be agame changer of just being like,
okay, I'm not the only one who'sdoing this wrong.
Right.
Quote unquote.
And again, I mean, this is gonnabe my answer for, for many of
(20:19):
them, but, but like, if you feellike you're doing all of the
work and you are not seeing theresults and other people are
maybe hinting that perhapsyou're not working in the right
way for you, or for this projector for this, See who you can get
help from.
Mm-hmm.
right?
Is there a mentor?
Is there a sponsor?
Is there a coach?
Is there a therapist?
(20:39):
Is there somebody who can kindof walk through it with you and
see if there's any other way foryou to get to get results?
Or can you, you know, can yourejig the results that you think
that you are?
That you deserve right?
That you deserve to get.
Like what are you doing all ofthis work for?
Are you doing all of this workto get the presidential medal of
(21:01):
freedom or are you doing thiswork to be a happy, healthy, in
your own way?
Well-rounded individual?
If if it's the latter, then youare the one who decides.
You know.
Yay.
Congratulations.
Give yourself by yourself someflower Yes.
This is great.
Yeah.
Steve (21:18):
Now I'm gonna have that new Miley Cyrus song stuck in my
Jo (21:21):
head.
Yeah, I know.
We, we need to, I've had it.
Yeah.
For you it feels, yeah.
Steve (21:25):
And if a listener was struggling in their recovery,
what advice do you have forthem?
Jo (21:32):
Talk, reach out, find someone.
Find a group if you.
If a 12 step program does notfeel right for you, find
something that isn't 12 steppy,right?
Find someone if you don't wantanybody that you know to know
create an anonymous Facebookaccount.
Create an anonymous Instagramaccount.
(21:54):
Like it, it doesn't have to be,it doesn't have to be
everything.
You know, you don't have to bearyour soul and your face and your
fucking social security number,like all at the same time.
But do reach out and find, findsomebody because I mean, the
whole thing about service,whether it's in, whether it's
within a, a 12 step program orwhether it's just like I've got
(22:17):
sober and so I'm reaching out myhand to other people.
I think most of us in recoverydo that.
You know, at some point it kindof comes naturally to us to be
like, Come over to the fun sideof the island, right?
Come over.
Come over here.
Like, can I help you?
Yeah.
Maybe.
Can I pull you?
Steve (22:33):
Excellent.
Do you have any last thoughts orbits of pearls of wisdom on
overcoming ruts?
Yes.
Jo (22:43):
Hang on.
I wrote, I wrote the link down.
figure out what the problem is,right?
Get clear on what the root iswhat it's, and what it's
representing.
What is the rep representing?
Then figure out if at allpossible, if you can do this by
yourself.
Congratulations.
If you need a therapist or acoach or somebody to walk
(23:03):
through it with.
That's great.
That's what we, we are here for.
Figure out what the need isunderneath.
Right.
The underlying need.
I still think of cravings astoddler messengers to say there
is some kind of need that is notbeing met right now.
And I know that if I get, if Iget a craving for alcohol, I'm
(23:23):
like, okay, alright, where'sthe, where's the messenger?
like what is this craving?
What is this need?
Then once you've identified theneed, it's a simple process of
thinking, okay, right.
Is this a need that I can meet?
Right?
Or how can I meet this need?
In what way?
What's the, what's a goal thatis realistic that I can set
myself?
(23:44):
And once you've got the goal,you define the steps, and then
you take the first one, and thenyou take the second one, and
then you take the third one, andthen you meet it.
And.
Slightly simplified obviously,but that's pretty much the
process.
Right?
Identify the problem, figure outthe need, goal steps.
Mm-hmm.
do it and take an action.
Steve (24:04):
Wonderful.
And if, if someone wanted toconnect with you to talk more or
possibly get some coaching orsome guidance, how would they
find you?
Jo (24:12):
They would find me on the Instagram and the Facebook just
under Joe Waldock.
So Joe, g J.
The French came in then.
J o Wal, w a l d u c k.
And my website will be liveagain by then.
And that's just joe wal.com.
Perfect.
Steve (24:31):
Excellent.
Well stick around because I hearyou wanna talk about diet
culture.
Jo (24:37):
I don't wanna talk, I wanna runt.
Excellent
Steve (24:40):
Well, if you're interested in hearing more about
Joe and our thoughts on dietculture, head on over to our
patreonPage@patreon.com slashgay.
And if you're interested insharing your story or just
saying, hi, I'm an emailaway@gaypodcastgmail.com or on
Instagram at gay podcast.
(25:00):
Be sure to follow us whereveryou're listening so you can get
these new episodes when theycome out each Thursday.
Until next time, stay soberfriends.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!