Jade Chang (What a Time to Be Alive) feat. Rose Dommu, Guest Gay Reader

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Gaze reading where the greatsdrop by trendy authors.
Tell us all the who, what, andwhy.
Anyone can listen.
Comes we're spoiler free Readingfrom politic stars to book club
picks where the curious mindscan get their picks.
So you say you're not gay.

(00:24):
Well that's okay.
There's something for everyone.
Gays rating.
Hello, and welcome to Gay'sReading.
I'm your host, Jason Blitman,and on today's episode I have
Jade Chang talking to me abouther new book.

(00:44):
What a Time To Be Alive.
And Rose Dommu is my guest gayreader, she's talking to me
about her book, best Woman.
Both books are out now and bothof their bios can be found in
the show notes.
As always, if you like whatyou're hearing, please share us
with your friends.
Follow us on social media.
It means so much.
When folks share episodes thatthey love or leave comments and

(01:06):
all that.
I can't tell you what a labor oflove this little indie podcast
is and to see the great feedbackthat it gets over on Apple
Podcasts and Spotify with, withcomments and reviews and such,
uh, mean so much.
So thank you all to those of youwho have done so in support of
the podcast.

(01:26):
What else is there to share?
There's still time to join theGays Reading Book Club through
Altoa.
You get your first book for just$1.
The October book is Middle Spoonby Alejandro Varella, and it's
so great.
And then on, october 15th iswhen I announced the November
book.
So the 15th of every month, thenext book gets announced and I

(01:47):
was just in conversation withthat author this morning and I
cannot wait for you to read thatbook and hear that conversation.
The time is fa lying, y'all.
I can't believe it.
So there's just a lot to lookforward to.
So many great books coming out.
And yeah, we are over onInstagram.
Follow us on Instagram at gareading if you are not already.

(02:10):
There is a super excitinggiveaway that's getting posted
later this week that I cannotwait for.
And I think that's, those areall the, that's all the
housekeeping.
I know Mo a lot of peopleprobably fast forward through
listening to me meander anyway,but that's okay.
The conversations are way betterthan me.
Meandering.
So speaking of, please enjoy myconversations with Jade Chang

(02:35):
and Rose Damo.

Jade Chang (02:36):
we went to the Purple Lounge.
Is that what it's called?
I think that's what

Jason Blitman (02:42):
Yes, of course.
Did you see Lucy Arna?

Jade Chang (02:45):
No, but we Did she, is she still alive?

Yeah.
Lucy Arna is Lucy

Jade Chang (02:50):
is that their daughter?
Oh, I didn't know that.
Okay.
Okay.
I

Yes.
And she often performs at thepurple room, which is why I

Jade Chang (02:57):
Oh, at first I thought you were calling Lucille
Ball by her.
By her former married name, andthat she was somehow still
alive.
Okay.
No, I didn't, who I did see isthe woman who sang the theme
song to the nanny.
Do you remember that song?

What.

Jade Chang (03:14):
Yeah.

Do I remember that song?
My husband and I during COVIDwatched every episode for the
first

Jade Chang (03:23):
Me too.
Not every episode, but I watcheda lot of it.

oh no, we watched Beginning to End.
I couldn't believe how funny itwas.
But we never ever skipped the

Jade Chang (03:35):
But yeah, it's like the best theme song in
existence, I think.

So in fact.
The Rosie O'Donnell show themesong is an homage to the nanny
theme song, and the gays readingtheme song is an homage to the
Rosie O'Donnell theme song.

Jade Chang (03:59):
What?
I love that.
That's amazing.

Yes.
And I'm a all that to say I am abig fan of the Nannies theme
song.
You didn't even realize therabbit hole that

Jade Chang (04:11):
I didn't, but I love it.
Wait.
Okay, so I'm gonna tell you thisand I feel like you'll be
properly excited, which is, Icannot remember her name right
now, so apologies for that.
But the singer.
She does this, she is just aconsummate performer, she was
truly amazing.
And she does this kind of improvsong and she asks people for she

(04:34):
was asking people for names,situations, things like that.
And we were there for friend'sbirthday, but also one of the
friends who was there was aboutto move to New York and they
asked for a phrase.
And a friend of mine shoutedout, don't move to New York.
And then her entire song, thatwas the chorus of the song was

(04:58):
Don't Move to New York.
And then we were like standingoutside at the end, waiting for
a car and just person afterperson came pouring out of the
theater singing, don't Move toNew York.
It was amazing.

I assume your friend did in fact

Jade Chang (05:19):
Yeah, she did.
She's there now.
It's very rude of her not tolisten to this,

The song did not

Jade Chang (05:25):
song didn't work

Okay.
Catchy,

Jade Chang (05:29):
but useless.

Totally useless, but catchy.
All you need, all you want in asong is for people to leave
singing it.

Jade Chang (05:36):
It was so fun.

Now you'll listen.
You'll listen to the GazeReading theme song, and you will
fully understand.
I hope it gets stuck in yourhead too.
Speaking

Jade Chang (05:45):
closely.

Jade Chang, welcome to Gaze Reading.

Jade Chang (05:49):
Thank you.

I'm just holding up your, I'm saying I'm holding
up your book as though I said.
Anything about it, but I didn'there to talk about your book.
What a time to be alive.
So for the people, what is yourelevator pitch?
For what a time to be alive.

Jade Chang (06:05):
My we're at a party and it's really loud and
everyone's talking all around usand you just wanna go get a
drink.
Bitch is just,

Yeah.
What's your book about?

Jade Chang (06:15):
It's who accidentally becomes a self-help
guru, and then it's a year inher life.
That's the

That is so beautifully succinct.

Jade Chang (06:26):
thank you.

Yes.
It's so funny that of all days,today's the day we're talking
because I have never, I've nevereven gone remotely viral and I
will not say that I've goneviral.
However, had Jeff Hiller was ongay's reading who just won the
Emmy for somebody somewhere,and.

Jade Chang (06:50):
yes.
I saw a clip of him talkingabout it before.
You know that clip that waslike, I'm never gonna win.
And then he went and then he

Yes.
And then he won.
Yes.

Jade Chang (06:59):
love that show.

So great, so happy for him.
But he was on gay's reading andtells a very funny story about
people not recognize, notknowing his name, but
recognizing his face.
And I shared that clip onInstagram when he won.
And it has blown up as far asI'm concerned.
There's like lots of shares,I've gotten lots of followers

(07:24):
from it.
But it's, it is not dissimilarfrom what happens to Lola in the
book.

Jade Chang (07:30):
It's true.
It's

there is a little art imitating life or life
imitating art.
In my morning today.

Jade Chang (07:37):
I love that.
How are you gonna capitalize onthis and become a self-help guru
in your own right now?

That's a great question.
Not only do I want, I don'tnecessarily wanna become a
self-help guru, but I've alwayswanted to become a matchmaker.
Which is not related at all, butI feel like there's a help part
of it.

Jade Chang (07:57):
And and looking at people deeply and knowing what
they really want.

Yes.
Yes.
Jade, you see me?

Jade Chang (08:05):
True, True.
Matchmaking.
Matchmaking of the soul.
Yes.

I feel so seen.
Okay.
Yes, the book is about all ofthat, but.
It is also at a higher level, abook about grief,

Jade Chang (08:17):
Yes, very much.

And how we all grieve differently and what we
do with someone else's grief.
Something that comes up in thebook is how grief is maybe among
the only unifying forces in the

Jade Chang (08:31):
Mm-hmm.

What does that mean to you?

Jade Chang (08:36):
Oh when I, it's interesting I wrote that
sentence and I don't think Irealized that people would
relate to it and hold onto it asmuch as they have.
And, first gonna be such a crassway to get into this answer,
but,

bing, bang, boom.
Let's do

Jade Chang (08:54):
yeah, for any product.
Of course there's, you have likepromo, et cetera.
So for part of the promotion forthis book, we made a little bit
of merch, a very fun sock andalso a box.
And on the box out the outsideof the box, there were some
quotes from the book and that isone of the quotes.
And when.

(09:14):
When the marketing person, MeganDeans, who suggested, who I was
working on the box with when shesuggested that quote, I was
surprised because I don't know,at first I was like is it
depressing?
Is this, is this like how wewanna send it out?
But but then everyone else alsowas like, no, we really.

(09:36):
Feel both seen and affected bythat quote.
And I do.
Yeah.
And so I've thought about it alot more than I tend to think
about a particular sentence thatI've written, and yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it's interesting that youcalled it out too.
But yes, I think it's true.
I think that the only thingsthat are.

(09:59):
W we, the biggest mystery in theworld is that we all die and we
don't know what happens after wedie, and we are all living our
lives in a march towards thatfinal end.
And we can do it together, butessentially we have to do it

(10:20):
alone.
And somehow all of that is whatunites us as humans.
It's what creates.
All the, most of the fear thatpeople have in the world comes
from a fear of grief or a fearthat was precipitated by grief.
And so much of what we, so muchof the other things that we have

(10:40):
are structures that we put up todeal with that fear, right?
Religion.
Luxury products.
All of those are different,different ways of costing
ourselves and protectingourselves and yeah, so I think
when I say grief is the onlyunifying force in the world it
refers to all of that.

(11:02):
And then I think also it refersto the fact that when you are
yourself.
In a period of grief, you dorealize oh, everyone has felt
this way at some point, or theywill, and we don't see it, out
in the world or sometimes evennecessarily with our friends and

(11:26):
family, and yet.
It's true.
It's there.
It's there, and just as much asit doesn't mean, I don't think
that like joy or hope or any ofthat is also very much there,
but yeah.
Yeah.

What is, how do you cope?
Is your do you turn to religionor to fancy products or to, you
rattled off a few things,

Jade Chang (11:51):
definitely.
Neither of those things I wouldsay.
I love fancy food, but I'm,yeah, but fancy products are not
really one of my vices.
I really do think that, I writeabout this a little bit in the
book, but I really do think thatlike the eternity of the natural
world is our.

(12:12):
Truest place to cope withanything.
Like knowing that there aretrees and forest systems that
are as old as they are, knowingthat there are rocks that have
been mountains and have tumbledin the ocean and reemerged, like
I, I feel like I really do findjust a lot of true solace in

(12:35):
knowing all those things.

It's interesting because you said that when the
quote was put on the box, youhadn't necessarily maybe you
didn't say this, but.
When talking about the book, youdidn't initially talk about the
book as being about grief, andso that's super interesting to
me as someone who read the bookand the question that I'm about

(12:58):
to dive

Jade Chang (12:59):
Mm-hmm.

There is something so overwhelming about
how fragile humans are.
We're literally just thesefragile creatures among the
earth.
Was that.
An overwhelming thing to beconfronted with throughout the
process of writing the book and,but maybe it wasn't, because
that's not even necessarily howyou thought of the book, but

Jade Chang (13:23):
I really, I love that question.
you know, I mean, factually yes,it is about grief, right?
It opens with a funeral.
Lola, who.
Who is the POV character?
It's the whole book is in firstperson.
It's a year in her life, and itis about how she becomes this
accidental self-help guru in theface of her grief and trying to

(13:46):
understand everything that'shappened.
But it's true that I didn't.
That wasn't gr I would say griefwasn't like the driving force
for me in writing the book, butI do think the fragility of
humans, even though I didn't, I,I don't think I like really put
it in those terms in my mind,but that is something that I

(14:08):
find so moving, and so inspiringand I think that, I think it's
interesting to me because.
is about human connection,right?
Like we are mostly interested inthese relationships, how they
play out, how we understandthem.

(14:30):
And the reason that theserelationships are so important
and impactful is because we aresuch like.
Vulnerable little creatures whoneed these relationships and who
don't really know how to goabout them and who spend our
entire lives figuring out how tobe people.

What did you grapple with that at all when
you were writing or is thatsomething upon reflection?
sure.
That's fair.
And you, so it wasn't even likea conscious thing, it was just
like part of the process becauseyou're a person, you're a human.
Yeah, Interesting.
This episode comes out on, isyour pub day the 30th mar?

(15:14):
This the pub the episode comesout on pub day and at the end
of.
A month from now, the end ofOctober is my episode with
Catherine Newman about her bookWreck, which follow up to her
book sandwich.
It is also a book very muchabout grief and also about a
young person dying and alsoabout suddenly, being a young

(15:37):
person or a young person beingimmortal or immortalized as this
one little thing.
I also do a book club with Altoaand the, my book of the month
for October is Middle Spoon byAlejandro Varela, it's a book
about, about a breakup, but itreally is a book about grief

(15:59):
ultimately.
And so the, there, it's veryinteresting that sort of grief
is this big theme of the falland I almost feel like knowing
the timeline of book publishingthat.
We're coming out of this likegrieving time that we're all,
that people were, deeply rootedin that as a theme.

(16:21):
Anyway, just a, something I'veobserved in the

Jade Chang (16:24):
I think that's very true.
Books that are coming out now,were probably mostly, if not
conceived then they wereprobably mostly written during
the pandemic, or at leaststarted during the pandemic,

end of it, or

Jade Chang (16:36):
yeah.
And this like racial reckoningin America, this death of the
institution, the, every, all ofthis.
And it makes a lot of sense.
And I think also I I think alsothere's this sort of, as an
artist.
There's this sort of should I betrying to write like a sweeping

(16:58):
historical effort epic of somesort?
Do I wanna deal with, do I wannatake on every single big event
that has happened in this periodin my life?
And I do love reading books likethat often, but I also, but I
think there is also this realdesire to say this is how it
affects our specific personallives.

(17:21):
This is how this is how the kindof sweep of events this is how
something like the pandemicbreeds this kind of grief that
people are thinking of and Yeah.
Yeah.

And it's interesting that you're talking
about that.
As a creative person andthinking about the sweep as you
will.
The episode that has will havejust come out when this one is
out is with Angela Flournoy.
And who mentions that you bothwrote these By side and

Jade Chang (17:56):
is her pub day.
Oh.
And

today is her pub day, the day of recording.
It is indeed.
There's something simple aboutthe wilderness and the
everydayness of the wildernessthat makes it so impactful.
And it was not dissimilar to mein reading this.
It's like sweeping, but there issomething everydayness, right?
Just what happens if you goviral and that's not, that's out

(18:20):
of your control and you just theoutside forces of the world.
It's not really a question.
It's more of an interestingobservation of a thing that I
feel like we're all sitting inright now.

Jade Chang (18:29):
I think also, and this is perhaps a little bit of
a stretch, but I think werealize more and more kind of
what kind of an impact.
These institutions that we'vetaken for granted as being
things that are just all good,what kind of an impact they have
on our like lived existence and,the small ways in like really

(18:51):
taking care of our actual humanrelationships.
For example, the small ways thatwe have to rebel against them
and to be, fully formed humansof our own that whose existence
doesn't depend on.
The permissions of, of a system.

And related and unrelated of course is the going
viral on social

Jade Chang (19:14):
Mm-hmm.

is the, perception of who we

Jade Chang (19:18):
Mm-hmm.

on social media.
Do you think we're all justimposters?

Jade Chang (19:24):
Yeah.
I mean, well, I think it reallydepends.
I think

Period.

Jade Chang (19:31):
question, and I think it depends in part on what
you think is an imposter andwhat you think is truth, right?
I think that, do we all presentwith our most deeply felt most
authentic selves in every momentof every day?
No.
And yes.
Like you're making decisions allthe time about what you're

(19:52):
putting on, what you're notputting on your hair, you're
making, like it's Yeah.
Everything you could say thatall of that is drag, right?
All of that is an act, but

It's funny that you say that specifically
because I immediately after Isaid imposter, I just wrote
down.
I was like, I, because I don't,I didn't like that choice of
word.
Actually, I think I might havepulled it from the book if I'm
being honest.
But.
I think it's less about beingimpo an imposter and more about
being a performer.

Jade Chang (20:21):
Yes.
Also, this is interesting.
I think you probably didn't pullit from the book'cause I also
don't like the word and I.
Actually, this is a

Listen, that is a such a, that's such a fair read.
Oh my god.

Jade Chang (20:36):
This is, this is a different discussion, but for
example, I do find the kind of,I understand the feeling behind
imposter syndrome, but Iactually do find the sorry I'm
moving my camera around'cause Isuddenly felt like such an empty
chair, but I guess it's therealready,

it's okay.

Jade Chang (20:53):
That's where my imposter self sits, but Oh no,
actually that's where my trueself sits.
That's, that would be the, no,

It's you're saving every, your true self.

Jade Chang (21:02):
yeah,

oh my God.

Jade Chang (21:03):
When she emerges, that's where she'll be.

Now I'm like I'm sure I underlined it somewhere
and I'm gonna, you're gonna geta DM for me later.
It's gonna be a screenshot ofthe page, of the book.

Jade Chang (21:15):
I might have used the word, but

So funny.
I'm only teasing.

Jade Chang (21:21):
It wasn't someone worrying about imposter
syndrome.
I can at least say that forsure.

No, no, No.
Sure.
It's just, it's so interesting'cause it made me think about
this like weird family dramathat had been going on where.
The Cliff note version is Ididn't go to my cousin's wedding
and it was a huge drama and itboils down to the reason why I
didn't go was for my mentalhealth and when I had this like

(21:49):
very long conversation with myaunt about it, which shouldn't
have mattered anyway, herresponse was.
I, I don't know that I believeyou because everything on social
media shows otherwise,

Jade Chang (22:06):
Oh, that's very interesting.
Okay, so she's saying on socialmedia, you look great, you look
happy, you're going to parties,whatever you're posting
pictures.
How could you have mental healthstruggles?
Interesting.

To which I said, God bless my SSRIs.

Jade Chang (22:25):
Exactly.

But it is just so interesting'cause I don't even
think I realized how I was beingperceived, how I what my sort of
performance of my own selfreally looked like.
But of course those are all verybig themes throughout the book.

Jade Chang (22:41):
I think in a way there is no answer to it, right?
Like I think that.
I think we really like to scoldourselves a lot and scold our,
the kind of era that, or theworld that we've created, which
is fair.
It deserves a lot of criticism,but, and we like to say that we

(23:02):
are uniquely performative, etcetera, in this period, but I
just don't think that's true.
I think that performance is partof humanity.
I think that I think in.
Even in a small village, thereare, norms that you're
performing there, there arerituals that you're performing
there.
There is a self that you areoutside and there is a self that

(23:24):
you are inside.
I think that is just a thingthat we have always done, and I
think if anything people aremore and more aware of how you
can't take, everything that isshown on social media as like
the full truth of somebody'slife and

That's an interesting accidental segue
into another big question that Ihave for you.
I think so much of the book isalso about being seen.
What does that mean to you?

Jade Chang (23:53):
That's a great question.
I, I.
Think it is.
It's so deeply interesting tome, the concern with being seen,
the fear of being seen, thethings that we do to be seen.
I think that, God, what does itmean to me?

(24:14):
I don't know that I have aspecific answer for that.
I.

That's fair.

Jade Chang (24:20):
This is gonna be a weird answer.
I do feel a little bit like Ithink of myself as an, a bit of
an observer in that project.
Mostly because I think I'mreally lucky to have felt quite
seen as.
A child.
I think, I don't remember a realsense of not having that, and

(24:45):
this is like a reverseengineered realization, right?
I don't remember a real sense ofnot having that.
So seeing more and more peopletalk about wanting it made me
think what is it?
Have I had it?
Do you have any siblings?
I do have a younger sister, butshe's five years younger, so I
was an only child for fiveyears, and I have very nice

(25:06):
parents.
Yeah.
That's interesting.

I'm the oldest of three and my youngest, my sister
below me is just about threeyears younger.
And then I have one who's fiveyears younger.
So there was that element of, Iwas in a, in important position
in my life where I.
Wasn't seen in quotation mark.
So that might be where my littleneed comes

Jade Chang (25:28):
No, it's interesting.
And I do think some of it isjust inborn, I think we all need
a certain degree of it, a longtime ago, I worked at Good Reads
and I interviewed John Green,and this was right after the
Fulton Herst Stars came out.
And he, he was already quitepopular as a YA author and we

(25:49):
were talking about this, we weretalking about the need to be
seen.
And part of what I think thiscomes up in that book, he, one
of the characters talks aboutthe universe as a see in
universe, and.
Being seen by.
And that the universe wishes tobe seen, that all this beauty
exists because it wishes to beperceived.

(26:12):
And I remember asking him aboutit and he was like, yeah, I used
to really, feel a need to beseen.
And then he's but now I feelvery sufficiently looked at,
which

Yeah.

Jade Chang (26:27):
That is also interesting.
Like I definitely don't feel itfrom his terms, from that kind
of a y fandom is no joke at all,but

Yeah, but it is interesting when you have
aspirations and then it almosteclipses what you were going
for.
Then you're like, oh God, I'mtoo much.
Too.
See being soy too much.

Jade Chang (26:46):
What makes you feel seen?
Do you feel, do you often feelunseen in relationships or I
don't mean just sexualrelationships, just like
friendships or,

Yeah.
I think we live in a world rightnow that is, it's things are
real.
Focused.
REEL.
So There's just an attentionspan that is short, I think,
right And I think so few peoplehave attention for each other,

Jade Chang (27:19):
Mm.

Have a, have, I don't think people have the
attention span for each other.
And so it's give me the highlevel.
What's happening in your life?
Tell me what you're, what'sgoing on?
And then we can move on, orwhatever it is.
And so I think, when you canspend time with a friend, with a
loved one with anyone who, orwith a stranger who asks a

(27:44):
meaningful question, who cantake something you've said and
say it back.
In a regurgitated way thatacknowledges that you have been
heard Been seen.
I think it's that

Jade Chang (27:59):
Hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I do think it's that.
I think it's also, I thinkhonestly, as.
Writers and people who get to bein the world of books.
I, maybe I'm just biased, but Ido think that I get to have like
quite connected conversationspretty often, even when it's not

(28:23):
about my book, even when it'sabout other things.

but this is funny that you say this because my
husband and I moved across thecountry and the most.
Among the more meaningfulconnections I've made have been
through the podcast because I'vehad focused hour long

Jade Chang (28:44):
Mm-hmm.

that have, sure.
Maybe we're talking about yourbook, but we're also talking
about just like life and.
Themes in life and metaphors andwhatever.
And so we'll meet an authorwho's who I'm moderating their
in-person event or whatever, andthere is a deep connection there
already because of aconversation like

Jade Chang (29:02):
Yeah.
Yeah, totally.
Yeah.
And also it's just such anexcuse to be able to dive into
something immediately, which isalso so fun.
Yeah.
Yeah.

You were to do a TED Talk, what would it be on?

Jade Chang (29:17):
It's a great que wait, can I just say one more
thing about being in

Of course, you could say 10 more things.

Jade Chang (29:23):
Okay.
Okay.

See you, Jade.
I see you.
You can say whatever you want.

Jade Chang (29:27):
see, but, so I think that there is, I think part of
it is that, like what youreceive from the outside of
course it's all the interplay isso entwined.
But I do also think a large partof it is how much you do or
don't feel like you have toadjust your own self to receive

(29:52):
like a, whatever is satisfactoryto you, amount of interest and
approval, et cetera.
I think that, yeah, so I thinkwith a lot of that kind of
thing, I do think there's adegree of luck in it.
Like I feel quite lucky that Idon't have to I feel like I

(30:16):
essentially.
Want to wear the things that Iwear, like want to look the way
that I look and want to talkabout the things that I talk
about.
And none of that has changedvery much since I was a child,
honestly.
And I've always been like quitesatisfied with the response that
I've received from those things.

(30:38):
But that all of that is a flukeand is dependent on our current
cultural norms and et cetera, etcetera.

Yeah.

Jade Chang (30:45):
yeah.

And it's funny 'cause it makes me think about,
of course, audition by KatieKitamura.
And just the, fact that I endedup using the word performance.
Of course, that's literally whatthe book is about,

Jade Chang (30:57):
I haven't read that.
I've read Intimacies and I lovedit,

it's about every It's about everything we're
talking about, so it's veryinteresting.
Um,

Jade Chang (31:02):
I should definitely read it.

okay.
What would your Ted talk be?

Jade Chang (31:07):
what would my Ted talk be?

Anything.
It could be anything

Jade Chang (31:11):
Honestly, now that this is gonna sound so evil, but
now that we're talking aboutthis, I feel like I could give a
TED talk on how to make peoplefeel seen.
And

really.
Okay.

Jade Chang (31:24):
I do.
And how, it's a superpower youcould develop.
And I think that part of thatcomes from, having gone to TED a
couple of times and I write,there's a chapter in the book
where we go to Ted andobserving.
The real, just the way that thespeakers look.

(31:47):
I have a lot of criticism of theevent and a lot of appreciation
for it.
I definitely saw and heard andexperienced some things that I
loved, and then there was a lotthat I felt quite cynical about
as well.
But I think the Ted talk ofitself is, obviously engineered
to make people, to give people asort of aha moment.
And I think that it operates ona really reliable set of rules.

(32:12):
Ted talks themselves aredefinitely engineered for an aha
moment, and I think that itwould be quite possible to use a
similar set of principles toengineer for a personal
connection moment.
Essentially.

Do you, you just said you've been to a bunch of
them.
Do you remember any aha momentsthat you've had at a Ted?

Jade Chang (32:35):
So my most significant moment for sure was
and I, again, this shows up

I.

Jade Chang (32:42):
in this book, but there was, this actually wasn't
one of the talks.
They have this crazy thingoutside of the main conference
room.
They have all these kind ofexperiences and just meditation
pod after copper distillery ofessential oils after yeah it's

(33:04):
very, it's fascinating.
But there was this VR experiencethat, this was a little bit
before I would say VR technologywas completely, commonplace to
find in like a game at someone'shouse or whatever.
And it was essentially theexperience of being a tree and

(33:25):
you put on a headset and youstood on a little platform, a
little deus and.
You started out as a little seedin the ground and there were,
and you could see at your eyelevel, ants walking by and it
wasn't.
A hundred percent realistic, butit was pretty easy to suspend

(33:46):
that disbelief and then you growgradually and you can, once you
sprouted little like leaves andbranches, you could operate them
and if there was like a squirrelon you, I think you could shake
it a little bit.
That kind of thing.
And I found it to be sobeautiful and so moving and.

(34:06):
It's, I think probably now, thiswas almost eight years ago, I
think probably that now thetechnology would feel, a little
bit outdated, but at the time itreally felt I have never thought
about what it was to be a treeand just,

something more specific that was moving to you?

Jade Chang (34:29):
I.
I don't know.
I think just seeing it, seeingthe world from that perspective
and seeing myself in connectionto the rest of the forest,
seeing, seeing the other treesthat were growing with me.
The taller ones, the shorterones, the way that we once you
get up higher, you make way foreach other a little bit so that
everyone has a little bit ofsun.

(34:51):
I mean it, yeah, I really foundit to be very beautiful, very
moving.

yeah.

Jade Chang (34:58):
It ends in a forest fire, which is horrifying, and I
take a shoe with that.
With that creative choice butyeah, I, and it the thing itself
does show up in the book, but I,yeah, I would say that was the
number one thing that had a hugeimpact on me.
And the number two thing wasrealizing oh, each of these

(35:21):
speakers is doing a veryreliable thing, like they're.
Getting our sympathy, bringingus to a point, like showing us a
thing that we didn't think weknew but oh hey, it's actually
this, realizing that there wasthat tactic and then realizing

(35:42):
that I also went to an OprahSuper Soul Sunday in part as
research for this book.
And I realized that what thosekind of spiritual leaders, quote
unquote were doing was exactlythe same thing, and yeah, seeing
belief as a methodology that canjust be broken down, and then

(36:04):
also going to.
One of the like meta churches inLA again as research and
realizing that when people arelike, called up to give
testimony, it's, they're againusing like kind of the same
exact series of or, like way ofstructuring a speech.
Yeah, it, yeah, like seeing allthat definitely made me feel

(36:26):
like, oh.
I really I was already writingthis book, but it definitely
made me feel like, oh yes, likeseeing the rise of a guru from
the point of view of the guruherself is there are good
reasons to do that.
There are good reasons to dothat.

It's also interesting'cause it's almost
like flour, water salt gets you,you can make dough, right?
If you use that to make doughfor a pizza.
If you use that to make doughfor bread, if you use that to
make dough for, it's at its corea version of the same thing.
Whether it's used for Ted orit's used for church, or it's

(37:09):
used for a cult, or it's usedfor something else.

Jade Chang (37:12):
Yes.
And also that dough can be ashroud.
That dough can be a crowd.
Like it can literally, even inthat, you know what I mean?
yeah.
Yeah.

If you're if your cult had a brand, what would it
be?

Jade Chang (37:27):
Oh man.
I've been really trying hard tostart a savory oatmeal cult, and
I have very few, but if you'dlike to join, I'm taking

Egg cheese, scallions, salt, pepper, Jade.
I am here for this.

Jade Chang (37:48):
Amazing.

Oh my god.
I'm so excited.

Jade Chang (37:50):
you like to?
Hi.

What are we calling it?
What's the website address?
I'm ready.

Jade Chang (37:56):
Okay.
I am trying to think of a name.
Look, the bad version, I thinkwould be something like O, but
O-H-H-H-H-H-T.

Oh, Okay.
I just came off with

Jade Chang (38:12):
okay.
Okay.

Save re colon oatmeal.

Jade Chang (38:19):
Beautiful.

So stupid.

Jade Chang (38:22):
Yeah.

It's a cult.
It's a religion.
We're gonna be saved.
I love savory oatmeal.
So funny.
Um, There is a moment in thebook where Lola is house
sitting, something like that,and uses the people's car, and
there is one CD in the car.

(38:43):
What would your one CD be?
If you could only have one CD inthe car, what would it be?

Jade Chang (38:48):
Okay.
So first of all, Lola isbabysitting for a rabbit.
That's,

Oh yeah, sorry

Jade Chang (38:56):
yeah.

I couldn't remember the exact detail,

Jade Chang (38:58):
That's okay.
I just don't wanna leaveAristotle the rabbit out of this
too

I was just gonna say his name.
His name is Aristotle.
How could I forget?

Jade Chang (39:06):
When I was in like sixth grade or something, a
friend made me a mixed tape andI guess it was a mixed CD and I
wasn't, it wasn't like, likethat intensive a music listener,
before then and shockingly, Icannot remember any of the songs

(39:27):
on it, which doesn't, whichseems like a lie, but I just
can't remember them.
But I remember getting it andbeing so pleased and listening
to it over and over again andbeing like, oh, music is fun.
Okay.
I would listen to that.
That would be my

If you can't remember exactly what it was,
what was the like general genre?
Was it rap?
Was it nineties pop?
Was it,

Jade Chang (39:52):
so

and b?
I don't know what was it?

Jade Chang (39:54):
there's a radio station in LA called K Rock that
was like like they probablyplayed a lot of REM and Depeche
Mode and bands like that, butthen they also, like Sublime was
on it.
Like bands like that.
Like a lot of like terribleSouthern California.
I grew up in la a lot ofterrible Southern California

(40:16):
music.
I think I told my friend that Imostly listened to that radio
station and then they were like,Ugh, no, you need to listen to
more things.
It was like stuff from the, itwas like stuff from the
seventies.
This was a very musicallyliterate friend.
This was like a whole different,

I love this.

Jade Chang (40:37):
There was a Nico in the Middle Underground song on
it, I remember.

How interesting.

Jade Chang (40:42):
They were highbrow.

In our last few minutes together, there is a, an
uber big question that comes upin the book that I'm sort of
curious to ask you about.

Jade Chang (40:53):
Okay.

Um.
Uh, This is completely out ofcontext, but you'll understand
where it's coming from.
The question is, what did youwant here on Earth?

Jade Chang (41:09):
Wow.
Wow.

you think You would say to that?

Jade Chang (41:11):
that's a good question.
What did I want here on Earth?
That's a very moving question.
You're gonna make me cry.
I mean,

I saved it to the end for a

Jade Chang (41:24):
I love it.
No, thank you so much.
I really love it.
I think just all of this, youknow, I think.
Yeah, I think well, one, Iwonder if we can really know

(41:46):
what we truly wanted, you know,while we're still here.
Um, But also, yeah, I mean, Ithink, yeah, it was very, really
brought, I am an easy crier, butthat was a, that was a really.
That was a really greatquestion.

(42:07):
No, thank you.
I love it.
Thank you so much.
But yeah, I think thatdefinitely, being, just getting
to go through life with people Ilove and a sort of degree of.

(42:27):
Joy, a degree of chaos, a degreeof surprise, a degree of wonder.
Yeah, I think all of that.
And then, and then I think alsothere's because the whole world
is like irrevocably connected,there's.

(42:47):
I want that for everyone elsetoo, and

That's a very beautiful thing to say.

Jade Chang (42:54):
wow.
Thanks.
What do you want?
Do you know?

That's a great question too.
I, it's so interesting that I'vealready had my conversation with
Katherine Newman, even thoughit's the end, it's book ending
this month.
Because similarly, there's avery big question that comes up
in her book and that isessentially how do you wanna
spend your time?

(43:21):
And I think it had me thinkingso much about just being
intentional, right?
So what did I want to do here onearth?
I want to be intentional.
I think if I had to boil it downto something, I want to be
intentional with who I spend mytime with and who gets my
attention.

(43:41):
Who I see both literally andmetaphorically.
Yeah,

Jade Chang (43:46):
Yeah

big question.
That's what your book is doing.
It's asking big questions.

Jade Chang (43:49):
it is.
That is the what else are wedoing besides asking big

Yes.

Jade Chang (43:55):
Yes.
But also really what a gift, tobe able to do things
intentionally, to

oh, it's a hundred percent a privilege.
Absolutely.
And just to be able to thinkabout it even being lazy with
intention.
I'm going to rest,

Jade Chang (44:12):
Yeah.
Totally.

or I'm going to scroll, Whatever that means.

Jade Chang (44:18):
I do intentionally make that choice more

Yeah, I know.
For better or for worse.
To all of that, I say what atime to be alive.
which was not something I wasnot intending to say that, here
we are.
Of course, everyone, go get yourcopy of what A Time To Be Alive
by Jade Chang out now whereveryou get your books.

(44:42):
Jade, thank you so much forbeing here on GA Reading Today.

Jade Chang (44:45):
Thank you so much.
It was such a pleasure.
It was so fun to talk to you.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you.

fun to talk to you too.
We have the best, worst thing incommon.

Rose Dommu (45:01):
Okay.

Can you guess what that is?

Rose Dommu (45:04):
Is it that we're

Yes.

Rose Dommu (45:06):
Yes, I knew it.
Where are you from?

Um, I can tell you this because you're from
Boca.
I'm from Cooper City.

Rose Dommu (45:13):
Oh, okay.

I can't say that to most people'cause they don't
know where that

Rose Dommu (45:17):
They're like, most people when I say Bo Ratone,
they're like, what's that?
Or they're like, oh, is thatwhere the old people are?

The old people run amuck in South Florida

Rose Dommu (45:26):
they do.

Yeah, I went to Cooper City High School.
Where did you go to school?

Rose Dommu (45:29):
I went to Dreyfus, the

Yes, of course.
Were you a theater person?

Rose Dommu (45:35):
I was.

We'll get to all of that at another time.
But Rose Dam, you welcome toGay's reading.

Rose Dommu (45:45):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm so excited to be

Thank you for being here.
Thank you for being my guest gayreader today, so let's just dive
in.
What are you reading?

Rose Dommu (45:55):
So right now I'm reading the September House by
Carissa Orlando, which is ahorror novel and I'm actually
like, I'm gonna say I am, I'mreading it on my Kindle.
So I'm, I have 20% left, so I'mlike, really?
It's like at taking everythingin me right now, not to.
Go finish it right now.

(46:15):
And it's a haunted house bookand it's about this older woman
who lives in this hauntedVictorian house with her husband
and he has disappeared and theiradult daughter is showing up to
be like, what's going on?
Where?
Where's dad?
And as the novel goes on, you'reseeing how.

(46:35):
This woman, the main character,has really inoculated herself
against the horror of living ina haunted house.
And you discover why, because ofthe things that have happened in
her life, she's been able to dothat.
And it's just really funny andreally sad and scary, and I'm
totally obsessed with it.

Is that a genre that you typically are drawn to?

Rose Dommu (46:58):
Yeah I would say that this year I have been
reading almost exclusivelyhorror.

it's less scary than the real world.

Rose Dommu (47:07):
No, literally, I only read horror novels, and I
only watch horror movies becausethey make me feel normal.

Yeah.

Rose Dommu (47:17):
Yeah it's that bad.
It's got it's real dystopiahours outside.
And so reading about peoplegetting murdered is such a nice
break from all that.

That is sad.

Rose Dommu (47:32):
sad.

are there other books in this space that you
would recommend?
I'm like, not a really a horrorperson, but what's like a good.

Rose Dommu (47:43):
Yeah.
This year, some things I'vereally loved are recently
Gretchen Felker, Martin's newnovel Black Flame.
She wrote Manhunt and Cuckoo.
Black Flame is it has the vibeof a nineties.
Like erotic horror film, likeCandyman vibes.
It's about this archivist who isrestoring a cursed film from

(48:09):
World War II era Germany.
Very sexy and gross and scary.
I also really loved this novel,our Share of Knight by Mariana
Enriquez.
Which is like this epic saga setin post dirty war Argentina.
That's all like cult horror.

(48:30):
That was really incredible.

She has a new book of stories coming out

Rose Dommu (48:36):
oh my God.
I need to read

at the end of this month.
What is it called?
Somebody Is Walking on YourGrave, is

Rose Dommu (48:42):
She's such a brilliant writer.
I also loved the Unworthy byAugustina Ba Tarica who wrote
Tenders the Flesh, which waslike a really big book a couple
years ago.
That's about this like sect ofnuns in a living in a like
cloistered in a monastery in apost-apocalyptic world who'd

(49:03):
like, do all this.
Oh yeah,

Anyone who's watching this on YouTube sees me
disappear and then grab a copyof a book to present it.
But I was like, oh, these areall on my radar.
How, but I haven't read themyet, so

Rose Dommu (49:15):
Okay, you now you

Now I need to read it.
Okay, now it's off my bookshelf,so now it's, oh my God, it's
short.

Rose Dommu (49:21):
Yes.
Love a short novel.

Oh my God.
It's 175 pages and the font isbig and the space between the
lines is pretty big.
This

Rose Dommu (49:31):
and it's an Epistolatory novel, which I
don't usually fuck with, but itreally worked for me.

Epistolatory novels are all the rage this
year.

Rose Dommu (49:43):
People just wanna publish their journals,

yes.
Was there anything else that youare currently reading that you
wanted to shout out?

Rose Dommu (49:50):
Oh yeah.
I'm also working my way throughHarron Walker's book of essays,
aggregated discontent.
Harron is doing my, is gonna bein conversation with me for my
book launch at The Strand onSeptember 23rd, and I've.
Had her book since it came outearlier this year, it's I find
reading nonfiction really hard,so I have to do it one essay at

(50:12):
a time.
But it's actually been soenjoyable to stretch the process
out because Heron is just sobrilliant and so funny.
So it's like a nice littletreat.
Every like week or so, I'll letmyself read a chapter.

No offense to her, but you saying her name.
I am.
I can't help but imagine thecharacter Karen Walker in
disguise.

Rose Dommu (50:39):
From Will and Grace, it's, that's not the situation
we're looking at here

Of course

Rose Dommu (50:45):
your brain

Like Karen Walker's, just I'm gonna put on,
a hat and call myself Heron andeveryone's gonna think I'm
someone

Rose Dommu (50:51):
It's like

And Anastasia

Rose Dommu (50:52):
like, I'm gonna give myself bangs

Right.

Rose Dommu (50:55):
To Brooklyn and call myself Heron.

That is her Brooklyn persona.

Rose Dommu (51:00):
Yeah.
It's like the, it's like thealternate version of Anastasia
Beaver Hausen, which we all knowis famously her alter

Exactly.
If the chapter of your life thatyou're in right now had a title,
what would it be?

Rose Dommu (51:14):
It's all happening question mark.

Okay.
Why the question mark?

Rose Dommu (51:20):
Just'cause it is all happening, but I am very unsure
of what it's all leading to, Iguess my debut novels coming
out.
Been such a long run up to it,and now that it's finally here,
I'm like, it's finally here.
And how does my how do thingschange once it's out and I'm not

(51:48):
anticipating the releaseanymore?
And what's going to happen?
Are people going to like it?
Are people going to hate it?
Am I going to hate it?
Yeah, it's just it's a reallybig question mark that has been
looming and now the sentence isending.

Interesting.
Yeah, of course.
Not even just the sentence, butlike the chapter, right?
Like it's, you're filling in theblanks and then it will only
start a new chapter where youanswer the question.

Rose Dommu (52:16):
And also I think the question mark is partially
because I have been disabused ofthe notion that it, that, that
chapter will end because likebooks are so different than I
think a lot of other forms ofmedia where there's such a
longer tale of their like impactand influence and the kind of
life they can live.

(52:36):
So I don't know who knows howlong I'll be talking about this
damn book

Maybe forever.

Rose Dommu (52:43):
maybe forever and that would be great'cause I do
love it and I think it'sfabulous.

chapter title in your book will end in the
question mark.
How long will I be talking aboutthis book?
Question mark.

Rose Dommu (52:55):
yes.
What am I gonna do next?
Question,

Oh God, that's a stressful one.

Rose Dommu (52:59):
I already do know, and I'm I've been working on my
second novel for, since lastsummer, and I'm also working on
a screenplay.
So like I do know what I'm doingnext, but it's like I've known
for.
Years now that like this novelcoming out was this thing that I

(53:19):
was working towards.
And now that anticipation isending,

Yeah.
It's like you're, you startschool in kindergarten and you
know that you'll get tograduation eventually, but
that's so long from then.
And then you finally get there.
You're like, uhoh.
So talk to me about Best Woman.
What is your elevator pitch foryour debut novel?

Rose Dommu (53:41):
So best woman is a.
Send up a classic ninetiesrom-coms, but through a,
contemporary queer lens.
When I first started writing it,the Google Doc that it lived in
was called My Best TransWedding.
It's about Julia, who is a transwoman living in New York City,

(54:04):
and she's going home to BocaRaton, Florida to be the best
woman in her brother's wedding.
And a couple weeks before she'sto go down there, she finds out
that the maid of honor has beensacked, and the new maid of
honor stepping in is her numberone high school crush, who she

(54:25):
has been obsessed with for thepast.
15 years and in a bid to, weaselher way into this girl's good
graces.
She tells a little white lie inthe grand tradition of romantic
comedies.
That very quickly spirals out ofcontrol.

(54:46):
She goes home to Boca for thewedding and you meet this whole
wacky cast of characters fromher family.
And there's romcom shenanigansand things are discovered and
journeys are undertaken.
It's funny, it's reallyintrospective about, identity

(55:06):
and family and.
Transness and it very much islike a coming of age novel and a
family story wrapped in the likesugary sweet icing of a romantic
comedy set at a wedding.

Rom-com shenanigans.
I think it's gonna be my dragname.

Rose Dommu (55:27):
That's a good one.
It would have to be like.
She gans.
Yeah.

right.
CHE.

Rose Dommu (55:36):
Yes.

What are some of your favorite rom-com
shenanigans?
Or you could give specificexamples like from movies that
you love.

Rose Dommu (55:45):
I think a, like a lie, is lying about something
that honestly, is not thatimportant but feels really like
world ending at the time.
I just really like whencharacters and romantic comedies
make really bad decisions.
I like when characters in anykind of story make bad

(56:06):
decisions.
So yeah that's the best, becauseyou want, I personally want a
protagonist who I want to graband shake and be like what's
wrong with you?

And what's wrong with you, but then also watch
them turn it around

Rose Dommu (56:21):
Or not?

or not and see how they make it work for them.

Rose Dommu (56:26):
Yeah.
Or see how they have to own upto the consequences of their

Yes.
You saying that, and I don'tknow why, but hearing romcom
shenanigans, the very firstthing that I think about is the
scene in Father of the Bridewhere steve Martin goes upstairs
and looks at the bank book ofthe par of the other parents and

(56:50):
it like flies out the window andinto the pool and he has to run
away from the dogs.
It's a whole, it is a wholething and it's like how do you
get out of that?
Yeah, that's what I think ofwhen I think of romcom
shenanigans.

Rose Dommu (57:01):
Yeah, they are.
They're these like sort ofoperatic level dramas.
With like acts of almostgod-like interference that
happened that, move the plotforward, but at the end they're
very human stories.

sure.
You, as we discovered, have abackground in, in theater.
You are now writing this oryou've written this novel.
What, when did books becomeimportant to you?

Rose Dommu (57:29):
the thing is, it's, that's such a hard question to
answer because I can't remembera time when books weren't
important to me.
I was a very precocious readeras a child.
Like.
One of, I think one of myformative book memories was like
going to the library and seeingCarrie by Stephen King when I
was like in third or fourthgrade, and liking how the cover

(57:54):
looked and just like plucking itoff the shelf and deciding to
read it.
And like my parents never toldme that what I could or couldn't
read.
So I just started reading it andI was like, okay, I guess I read
like adult novels now.

So that way are there other, some formative
books that come to mind?

Rose Dommu (58:12):
Yeah.
When I was 19, I read TippingThe Velvet by Sarah Waters, and
that was really transformativebecause it was the first time
I'd read like a properly queernovel, and particularly a queer
historical novel where Irealized, oh.
This queer people have alwaysexisted and will always exist,

(58:34):
and it's really interesting toread stories where queerness is
crucial to the plot, into thecharacter's journeys.

Yeah.
Yeah.
I talk all the time about how.
Among those for me was red,white, and royal blue, which
I'm, I am a relatively late inlife novel reader, so that was
one of the first that I pickedup and was like, oh, this is a
quirky rom-com that is, a littlefan fictiony, but I've seen

(59:06):
myself in it,

Rose Dommu (59:08):
Absolutely that's really that experience was why I
wanted to write We are so verymuch at the advent of.
Trans fiction as a genre there.
There are some amazing writersout there and there is a legacy

(59:29):
of trans fiction, but there'sjust not a lot of it.
And I really wanted to see a, Iwanted to see a romantic comedy
with a, with a transprotagonist.
I wanted a trans person to havethat experience of that escapist
fantasy and to be able to seethemselves reflected in it.

Wedding involved.
So it's an, it's easy to make aparallel to my best friend's
wedding, to my big fat Greekwedding, to four weddings and a
funeral, anything that has theword wedding in it, father of
the bride.
Regardless of not thinking aboutcomps for your book, but what
are some rom-coms that you grewup loving?

Rose Dommu (01:00:07):
So one that I, that I.
Kind of excavated recently fromthe depths of my memory was the
truth about Cats and Dogs withUma Thurman and Janine Garaffo,
which I used to watch on likeHBO or Cinemax all the time as a
kid.
And that's another romanticcomedy where it's like this

(01:00:27):
stupid lie is told.
'Cause it's like a rip off ofCyrano.
And I just loved the idea of umaThurman pretending to have
Janine Garofalo's voice, andthere was like, and just these
two very different women.
There's something trans about itto me a little too.
There's a scene where UmaThurman has to like anally

(01:00:48):
penetrate a turtle.
It's just really weird andfabulous.

Jason Blitman (01:00:54):
I saw it many moons ago.
Remember none of what you justtalked about.

It's worth revisiting.

interesting.
My my deep cut is often mustlove dogs.

Never seen.

Yeah, that's okay.
I think it has like a 22% onRotten Tomatoes.
It's not it's, it is not highart, but it is, it just brings
me joy.
And Christopher Plummer is init.
And who doesn't love ChristopherPlummer?

Tea?

We need romcoms right now.

I know, and I think the state of the rom-com is
pretty dire, both in terms ofmovies and books because like
romance as a category has becomehuge, but it's in this way where
it's all.
Centered around beloved storyonly and it's so smut forward

(01:01:46):
and that's great.
I love smut.
I grew up reading fan fiction.
Best Woman is more sexy thansmutty.
And I think.
Like the ro the great Rom comesof your really always had a
balance between the romance andwhatever inner journey the

(01:02:07):
protagonist was going on.

Yeah inner journey and also not to circle
it back to this, butshenanigans,

exactly.

A sort of classic contemporary romance novel
doesn't always have the shenashenanigan aspect,

No,

and we

they, a lot of them take themselves really
seriously, especially with theromantic of it all.
I just wanna have, nobody wantsto have fun anymore.

Nobody wants to have funny, someone write a
letter in someone else's voice,send an email, see or know
someone.
Tell a lie.
Circle us back.
It's fine.

And that's what I'm doing.
That's what I'm

here you

that is my, that's the agenda.

So everyone go get your copy of Best Woman by
Rose Dommu.
It is out now.
Wherever you get your books, I'mso excited for you and for all
the people to check out yourdebut Romcom, and I can't wait
for the next one.

Thank you so much.
Thank you, Jade.
Thank you Rose.
Everybody have a wonderful restof your day.
As always, thank you for beinghere, and I will see you next
week.
Bye.

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