September 12, 2025 • 52 mins
Get ready to add to your ever-growing TBR (we're sorry!) because Gays Reading is kicking off the new series What Are You Reading?. On this episode, Jason talks to the host of Bookends, the CBC's literary podcast, Mattea Roach, to learn about what they've been reading recently.
About Bookends: the CBC's literary podcast
When the book ends, the conversation begins. Mattea Roach speaks with writers who have something to say about their work, the world and our place in it. You’ll always walk away with big questions to ponder and new books to read.
BOOK CLUB!
Sign up for the Gays Reading Book Club HERE
September Book: The Sunflower Boys by Sam Wachman
SUBSTACK!
https://gaysreading.substack.com/
MERCH!
http://gaysreading.printful.me
WATCH!
https://youtube.com/@gaysreading
FOLLOW!
Instagram: @gaysreading | @jasonblitman
Bluesky: @gaysreading | @jasonblitman
CONTACT!
hello@gaysreading.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Gaze reading where the greatsdrop by trendy authors.
Tell us all the who, what, andwhy.
Anyone can listen.
Comes we're spoiler free Readingfrom politic stars to book club
picks where the curious mindscan get their picks.
So you say you're not gay.
(00:24):
Well that's okay.
There's something for everyone.
Gays rating.
Jason Blitman (00:34):
Hello and welcome to Gay's Reading and this new,
exciting, fun series that I'mcalling a very simple, what are
you reading?
And I am thrilled to be herewith to My Ears, a celebrity
Mateo Roach, who is the host ofBookends, the CBC's Literary
(00:58):
podcast.
And.
Our the Gaze Reading listenersknow their voice from the ads,
from the Gaze Reading episodes.
Mateo Roach, welcome to readingin this new series that I'm
starting.
I'm thrilled to have you.
Mattea Roach (01:14):
Ah, thank you so much for having me.
I got jump scared by my own adactually, when I was listening
to one of these other, what areyou reading episodes?
Trying to catch the vibe of whatit might be like to chat with
you.
And then, yeah, I got hit withmy own voice when I was not
expecting it.
Very scary.
Hopefully the other listenersare not as scared as I was to
hear my voice.
Jason Blitman (01:32):
No, you have a great podcast voice, obviously.
And I love it.
For me, it's soothing when Ihear it on my own episodes'cause
it's a break from my own voice,
Mattea Roach (01:43):
That's very kind of you.
Yeah, I think most podcasters, Iwould say, are not soothed so
much by the sound of their ownvoice.
And you're having to, listen tothe same recording often of
yourself multiple times and justrelive Do I like how I asked
that question?
Did my voice crack in a weirdway?
So to hear that somebody elsewho's an expert podcaster finds
(02:04):
me soothing.
That's actually very nice.
Jason Blitman (02:06):
Very soothing.
You're Canadian, which is likeextra soothing both in how you
talk, but also just like in yourgeneral spirit because we're
going through a tough time downbelow.
Mattea Roach (02:18):
Aren't you just yeah, I have a little, a light
regional accent that sometimescomes out to play too.
Like I was just back in NovaScotia visiting family.
Couple weeks ago.
Now, sometimes if I'm there fora little while, you start to
hear some folksiness creep backin.
Jason Blitman (02:33):
What does Folksiness sound like to you?
Mattea Roach (02:35):
Oh, I don't wanna do an imitation'cause it's gonna
be, but I think there are someaccents when you get to Cape
Rutton, which is where a lot ofmy family's from.
And especially if you go toNewfoundland in the eastern
region of Canada, that start toalmost get Irish, yeah, it's on
a continuum.
So it's interesting, like I willnotice accent creep if I'm
hanging out with my mom'srelatives that live in a sort of
(02:56):
small fishing and tourist town.
And then I'll come back to thecity and think, huh, I'm talking
different.
Jason Blitman (03:02):
interesting.
Is it?
Is it, and again, I don't wantyou to do an imitation, but is
it specific words that younotice?
Is it like a general across theboard?
I ask'cause my husband is fromStaten Island and it is very, it
is some specific words.
Mattea Roach (03:16):
an accent that I think comes out to play on
specific words for sure.
I would say the biggest telltalesign for me is the AR sound.
So I would say often if I'mtalking to a cousin who lives at
home or something like that,it'll be a, if you're, the
standard Boston accent sentenceto say is I parked the car in
Harvard Yard, but I just saidit.
Not in the Boston way, but in away that also to some ears
(03:38):
sounds crazy.
Jason Blitman (03:39):
right
Mattea Roach (03:40):
it's a bit of a nasally error.
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (03:42):
that.
Okay.
Okay.
Thank you
Mattea Roach (03:44):
That's the telltale sign.
Jason Blitman (03:46):
Set a time and place for us.
I appreciate that.
Okay.
You do.
I feel like we're cousinsbecause our podcast, I feel like
are cut from the same cloth andyet are very different, which is
I guess, what cousins reallyare.
Mattea Roach (04:01):
That's exactly what cousins are.
Yeah.
I,
Jason Blitman (04:03):
What has your reading journey been like?
Let's find, what are you, whatare we reading now?
Mattea Roach (04:08):
okay, so we're chatting, it's early August.
I think we can say August 7th.
End of the first week.
So it's a slow period,relatively speaking for me,
reading wise in that I haven'tbeen producing interviews
through the summer.
Beautiful thing about publicradio.
We get to do some summer reruns,have a little summer hiatus,
summer vacation, which meansthat I have some time to dive
(04:30):
into maybe the back lists ofsome authors that I'm excited
about that I might be talking toin the fall.
Do in theory, a little bit ofpleasure reading as well.
So what have I been readinglately?
I can look at the books that I'musing to prop up my computer and
I can also look at my littleiPhone note.
Currently I'm reading Deep Cutsby Holly Brickley, which is
(04:52):
being adapted into a film by a24.
It's gonna have Austin ButlerSea, Sharon Ronan, are you
familiar with Deep Cuts?
Is this a title that's crossedyour desk?
Jason Blitman (05:01):
It has crossed my desk.
Mattea Roach (05:02):
Okay.
How do you feel about it?
Have you read it?
Jason Blitman (05:04):
Listen, this deep cuts is the perfect.
Example of book comp tragedyBecause I, I'm the kind of
person who maybe give me a lineor a vibe of what a book might
be about, but I am not reading ablurb.
I like to go in as blind aspossible.
(05:27):
When deep cuts is compared totomorrow and tomorrow, or
compared to Daisy Jones in thesix or other books that sort of
hold a certain kind of value inthe canon, you have
expectations.
And so it is impossible to go inwithout those expectations.
But I want to go in as clear aspossible, and I would argue that
(05:50):
deep cuts was the was thattragedy for me.
It did not hold up to what I waspromised, but I didn't dislike
it.
Mattea Roach (05:58):
I think the vibe that I'm getting about deep
cuts, so I am really interested.
We're going to interview HollyBrickley, have her on the show.
I'm really interested to talk toher.
I think that it seems to be abook that really hits if you
went to college at a specifictime and if the references are
your references.
So talking to my coworkers,there's a couple folks around
the office who were in collegein that early aughts.
(06:19):
Period where they weregraduating into the era of indie
sleaze and these were the bandsthat they were really excited
about and the methods of sharingmusic.
That was how they would sharemusic and this is how they would
talk about it.
Whereas I miss this wholeperiod.
Like my dad, who is a big, was abig influence on my music taste
was like too old for that.
(06:39):
He was coming of age musicallyin the eighties.
Listening to vinyl records andshout out Brave New Wave, CBC
Radio, the program that reallygot him into a lot of
alternative stuff that heenjoyed back in the day.
And then I was like going tohigh school and university in
the 2010s.
So past the indie sleaze period,we were firmly in the era of
streaming.
So it was interesting for me toread this book that was about
(07:01):
this period that was clearlylike coming from a place of such
passion and I respect thepassion.
But it's just not the specificstuff that I'm passionate about,
but I always love talking topeople about that passion and
like getting to understand,okay, why is this important to
you?
We've actually had a couple oflike music writers on bookends.
(07:24):
During the first season, nowthat I think about it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Books about music or we even didone of the 33 and a third by
Bloomsbury, like that series ofbooks that are the deep dives
into albums.
We had Leah Caro on to talkabout Hounds of Love by Kate
Bush and the book that she wroteabout that album.
And I just love hearing peoplego deep on the records that
really are important to them.
(07:45):
And it's cool that I get to dothat sometimes on a book show.
Jason Blitman (07:47):
Yeah.
What would your deep dive be ifyou were to write a deep
Mattea Roach (07:53):
Oh I've thought about this.
I don't know if anybody who's aneditor at Bloomsbury Press
listens to gay's reading.
I would, if I got my acttogether.
Love to do Blue Rev by Always isan album that I have a lot to
say about.
There's a.
Really interesting story interms of the production of that
album.
There was a flood where a lot ofthe original recordings got
(08:13):
damaged.
It took many years for them toput it together.
COVID happened while they wereputting it together.
There's an amazing story aroundlike a lot of the visuals, the
album cover and some of thevideos coming from Molly Rankin,
the lead singer, like herfamily's kind of archival home
movies and photos from herchildhood.
(08:34):
She's from Cape Breton.
I have a lot to say about that.
It's like that's, that's wheremy family's from.
There's these parallels, like Icould talk about Blue Rev all
day long.
So if I was going to go deep ona book and write a little tome,
that would probably be my toppick.
Jason Blitman (08:47):
What.
If not music, what would yourdeep dive subject be?
Mattea Roach (08:53):
Oh, deep dive subject for a book.
That's a good question.
I don't, I just don't considermyself an authority on anything.
I'm not an authority on musiceither, but I, at least I
Jason Blitman (09:05):
but what is something that you love, so
maybe something you love that,that you would become an
authority on to write the book.
Mattea Roach (09:11):
I could see a world in which I became one of
those, like small press Canadianpolitics.
Authors like I have a buddy whorecently I think adapted his, I
believe it was his master'sthesis that got adapted into a
book that's about like Canadianpension investments.
I wouldn't specifically do that.
(09:31):
It's called Policing the Crisis.
Tom Frazier showed out policingthe Crisis by Tom Frazier, who I
met in high school and likestill know now in Toronto.
Yeah, no good for him.
It's a deep dive into pensioninvestment funds.
I would not do specificallythat, but I could see myself
getting interested in somethingsimilarly.
Policy wonky.
Jason Blitman (09:50):
Sure.
It would sit next to it on theshelf.
Mattea Roach (09:52):
Yeah.
These are all things, it's likewhat?
You're probably like, why did Ibook?
I booked you to talk aboutnovels and here you're talking
about music and
Jason Blitman (10:00):
I love to, this is, we go down rabbit holes on
the gays reading because younever know.
Mattea Roach (10:07):
No, you
Jason Blitman (10:07):
okay.
What else are you reading?
Mattea Roach (10:08):
What else am I reading?
Okay.
What have I read lately?
I mentioned reading backlist,right?
So some of what I wanna doduring the summer, now that I'm
not having to like activelyproduce, we're producing
typically two interviews a weekfor bookends, which means
reading minimum two books aweek.
And you don't always have timeto necessarily dive into an
author's back catalog or reallysit with stuff for as long as
(10:31):
you might like to.
So the slower period has beengood for me to read some
canonical stuff that I mighthave missed.
One thing I read recently that Iadored and I feel silly for not
having read it sooner, but alsoI'm glad I read
Jason Blitman (10:46):
pen is ready.
Mattea Roach (10:47):
Dublin's James Joyce.
Shout out James
Jason Blitman (10:50):
Oh,
Mattea Roach (10:51):
Yeah.
I actually did a little writeupfor the Toronto Star about this
as part of the, this like summerreading recommendation thing
that they did.
Do you remember that?
I think it was the Chicago.
Sun, I wanna say the ai, the SunTimes, the AI generated summer
reading list with the fakebooks.
Yes.
Yeah.
One of the culture writers atthe Star basically had this idea
(11:13):
of, okay, we're gonna get actualpeople to do a real curated
recommendations list.
Folks that are working in theCanadian literature space, and I
thought, okay, I don't wannapick a book that's been on the
show that feels like picking afavorite child.
What am I reading that'sdifferent?
And I happened to be like onvacation at the time, and I had
this beat up library copy ofDublin Earth that I think, I
(11:36):
don't know, it was probably likea 20-year-old book, had clearly
been well loved and taken outmany times.
Those stories hold up.
They're so funny.
I think I didn't realize howfunny James Joyce is.
And it made me really wannaactually get into the novels,
which I know is more of aproject.
But yeah, like it's kind ofsocial comedy.
It definitely helps if you knowa little bit about what was
(11:58):
going on in Ireland at the time.
I think that enhances yourunderstanding,
Jason Blitman (12:02):
That's good to know.
Mattea Roach (12:03):
but it's also like a window into that.
If you don't know about Ireland,read the stories and then.
Think, okay, what are these guystalking about when they're at
the pub discussing thesenationalist politicians?
'cause this was still during theperiod where Ireland was not an
independent state.
It's pre-Easter rising, preIrish civil war still under home
rule.
(12:23):
It's a really fascinatingperiod.
So it's a window in to that, ina way.
Jason Blitman (12:29):
It's it.
I didn't read more than achapter of it yet, but I started
reading Moby Dick
Mattea Roach (12:38):
Ooh.
Jason Blitman (12:39):
similar reason I've, I was like, I feel like
this is Canon.
There are other books that havecome out that talk about the
queerness of Moby Dick.
So I was curious to like.
Cross-reference.
But what surprised me was howmuch I was laughing in that
first chapter.
I was like, this is so dense.
And it's not dissimilar fromlike funny Shakespeare where
(12:59):
you're like, wait, I'm, I haveto think about this in a new and
different way.
But it's commenting on somethingthat is surprising and I'm
finding it so funny all at thesame time.
Mattea Roach (13:09):
That's really interesting.
I have, I think this is, I don'tknow if I've been like putting
my head in the sand or wet.
I feel like this is maybe thefirst time that I'm really
reckoning with the queer angleof Moby Dick.
I have not read Moby Dick.
I've heard a lot about Moby Dickbecause people love it.
People are real stands for thatbook.
I gotta say, I must read it atsome point.
Amy Schneider of Jeopardy fameis like a
Jason Blitman (13:30):
reading guest.
Mattea Roach (13:31):
huge Moby Dick person has talked to me at
length about it before.
Jason Blitman (13:36):
Susan Rieger who wrote the novel, like mother has
read Moby Dick three times.
I was like, Susan, it is
Mattea Roach (13:42):
It's not a short book either, right?
That's a commitment.
You've gotta really wanna diveback in there.
Jason Blitman (13:47):
Yeah.
So no, it's, it is definitelylike a staple for some people.
Like there, there is passionbehind it and I
Mattea Roach (13:55):
you know what?
I really should at some point, Idon't know that this is gonna be
my Moby Dick summer.
I think that this was my introto James Joyce summer, and that
was good.
We check that off.
But it is a novel, but wailing,like it's, it's a seafaring
novel.
Cultural similarities.
Again, like regional literature,I wanna stay tapped into that
East coast vibe.
So I do think I need to read itat some point.
Jason Blitman (14:17):
Yeah.
I said we're cousins.
You are the, you are James thissummer, and I also have a James
this summer.
James, I did my first JamesBaldwin,
Mattea Roach (14:25):
Oh, okay.
Which one?
Jason Blitman (14:27):
Giovanni's room.
Mattea Roach (14:29):
okay in.
Thank goodness'cause that is theone that I have read.
I also always need to read moreBaldwin.
Jason Blitman (14:35):
Yeah.
Mattea Roach (14:35):
Giovanni's room for a course that I did in
university and devoured itdistressing novel at some
points.
But beautiful.
Jason Blitman (14:44):
Beautiful.
Loved, loved it.
Appreciated how short it was.
Mattea Roach (14:49):
He know James Baldwin had a real economy with
words
Jason Blitman (14:53):
Yes.
It wasn't, it was it.
wasn't like, oh, I'm glad it'sshort, so I could finish it
faster.
I was like, oh, this is, it islike a decadent meal and you
could only eat so much of it.
Yeah.
Mattea Roach (15:03):
exactly.
It's impressive what he's ableto pack into a short package.
And same with any of his essaysthat you read, any of his
interview excerpts that youread.
It's almost when poets writenovels often, I find that every
word has very specific meaning.
Really needs to be there.
James Baldwin almost is likethat for me.
There's no word that issuperfluous.
Jason Blitman (15:22):
A hundred percent I, among my new favorite, not
even new favorite things, butI've realized the more I've read
that I love a poet's novel.
Mattea Roach (15:31):
Yeah.
That was, so my firstintroduction to your podcast
actually was when you weretalking to Kava Akbar, but
Martyr
Jason Blitman (15:39):
That was the first one that came to mind.
Mattea Roach (15:42):
exactly.
Rolling back the clock a littlebit, when Bookends launched last
fall.
There was a whole process to getthe show launched.
When you're doing a show for theCanadian Broadcasting
Corporation, it's you producelike a radio pilot essentially
as though you were doing a TVpitch.
And so Kava was actually one ofthe guests that we had on for
our pilot episode that we had tosend up to management to say,
(16:04):
Hey, this is gonna be the vibeof the show.
Do you like it, please?
I would like a job.
so the stakes were really highfor that interview, and he was
such a gracious guest.
I loved that book.
It was so perfect.
Exactly what I needed to read atthe time.
And yeah, completely a poet'snovel, like word choice.
So elegant.
(16:26):
I really felt like it.
I don't know.
It's, it speaks to the time it'swritten in.
Jason Blitman (16:30):
100%.
Yes.
Yes.
That wa when I think poet'snovel, that is the
Mattea Roach (16:35):
Yeah, no I am eager to see whether he writes
more novel.
I don't know a, anything hewrites I'm gonna be excited to
read in the future for sure.
Kava?
Jason Blitman (16:44):
Big fan.
I love this.
I love this.
For us, we could talk all abouthim all day long.
Were there other books that youwanted to shout out?
'cause I'm very curious if notto, in general, I wanna hear
more
Mattea Roach (16:53):
all right.
I've, yeah I need a little, alist of things.
So some of this is preparatoryfor things we've got brewing in
the fall.
There's a new Zaby Smith essaycollection coming out in the
fall.
And again, I have not that greatof a knowledge of the canon of
anything really.
I did not do a literature degreein university.
I did a sexual diversity studiesdegree, which.
(17:16):
I will defend to the deaf, likeit was a real degree, it was
rigorous.
I did a couple of Englishcourses within it, but I missed
a lot of what you might get ifyou took an English degree where
you're like doing, here's mycontemporary British course,
here's my
Jason Blitman (17:31):
a Bachelor's of Fine Arts in theater.
Mattea Roach (17:34):
in theater.
See?
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (17:37):
understand.
Mattea Roach (17:38):
Yeah.
So you're adjacent but not quitethere in
Jason Blitman (17:41):
No.
My cannon is empty.
I need to pack the cannonballs.
We
Mattea Roach (17:46):
And the good news is the cannon's not going
anywhere.
The bad news is it's alwaysexpanding and, there's debates
about what is canonical, what isnot.
Yeah, there's just a feastalways if things you read.
So anyhow had not read any ZaSmith prior to, I don't know.
Two months ago or something,whenever I first picked up white
teeth in anticipation of, I mayneed to read this essay
(18:09):
collection that's coming out inthe fall.
White teeth is so good.
The hype is deserved.
I have to say the hype isdeserved.
Jason Blitman (18:16):
It's this is, I am such a late in life reader
and I.
When I first really startedreading, the way I would joke
about talking about books was asthough I discovered reading,
have you heard of this new thingcalled reading?
It is so great.
So hearing you say that aboutwhite teeth, it's, it is
(18:36):
reminiscent of me just talkingabout books in general.
It's oh yeah, this thing I'vebeen hearing about for my whole
life.
It's really good.
Mattea Roach (18:43):
this is one of my very best friends last summer
was so excited.
I, we were hanging out at myhouse or something.
He was so excited to play thisgroup of people a song that he'd
just heard for the first timethat he thought was so good and
it was, dog Days are Over byFlorence and The Machine.
And I was like.
Sir, this is a very good song.
They did cover it on Glee.
However, like this is not,
Jason Blitman (19:03):
Been around a long
Mattea Roach (19:04):
Proud of you, happy for you.
You do have good taste.
This was on Glee.
That's me coming in 25 yearsafter the fact saying, Hey guys,
have you heard about WhiteTeeth?
Also, frankly, me coming insaying, 110 years after the
fact, y'all heard about
Jason Blitman (19:20):
Joyce is killing it.
Mattea Roach (19:22):
Yeah, but look we need to.
I think sometimes shout out andhonor and remember that stuff
that came out a while ago isalso good.
I think sometimes there's thisurge to always be reading the
newest, busiest publication andI don't know I love talking back
into the canon white teeth
Jason Blitman (19:40):
Classics has new books coming out every season
all the time.
So it's new
Mattea Roach (19:45):
Yeah.
But new additions.
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (19:47):
and new editions of
Mattea Roach (19:48):
Have you had any big penguin classics discoveries
lately?
Anything exciting for you?
Jason Blitman (19:53):
Oh gosh.
No.
But I did have a fantasticconversation with the VP and
editor of Penguin Classics, andso I learned a lot about that
process and inspired me.
It was after that conversationthat inspired me to go purchase
Moby Dick.
Mattea Roach (20:12):
Okay.
Yeah.
That's Wow.
Impactful.
They're good at their job,
Jason Blitman (20:16):
the discovery was I needed to get more into my
classics.
Yeah.
Mattea Roach (20:20):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (20:22):
were about to say, you were talking about
Zadie Smith.
Mattea Roach (20:24):
oh, Z Smith.
Just I don't know if you're intothe sort of like
multi-generational family, epicWhite Teeth does that, it is a
book that took me a while to getinto.
I will say I couldn't.
Really see where it was goingfor maybe the first a hundred
pages of 540 or whatever, But itended in a way that was entirely
satisfying.
(20:44):
And I think, I don't know, I'mvery much of the opinion that
readers should want to challengethemselves.
I know that sometimes you wantto beach read and that's fair
play.
However, I did just describewhen I went on vacation earlier
in the spring, I brought JamesJoyce with me to the beach.
In the car when I was likedriving around in Morocco on my
(21:04):
little spring vacation.
So I have perhaps some bustedideas about what's relaxing, but
I do think that there's value inreally challenging yourself and,
I don't know, like using yourleisure time in a way that like
elevates as opposed to just Idon't know, pacifies, I can
watch selling sunset.
I don't wanna read the sellingsunset of books in my spare
(21:26):
time,
Jason Blitman (21:27):
I feel you.
I, my favorite kind of book Irefer to as accessibly literary.
Mattea Roach (21:35):
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (21:36):
So it is quote unquote easy to read, but it is
meaningful
Mattea Roach (21:41):
Yeah,
Jason Blitman (21:42):
really get something out of it.
Mattea Roach (21:44):
for sure.
Yeah, I think that there'scertainly are some authors that
maybe try to be dense for thesake of being dense or.
Know that they're playing to anarrow audience, and maybe it's
not for everybody, but therecertainly are also many literary
authors working that arefrankly, easy to read.
What, do you have an author inmind that exemplifies that
accessible literary for you?
(22:05):
I'm curious.
I
Jason Blitman (22:06):
So the first person that always comes to mind
is Dolly Alderton.
Mattea Roach (22:13):
Okay.
Jason Blitman (22:13):
Because I find ghosts to be so deceptively.
Meaningful, and I don't wannacall it literary'cause I think
some people would come for me,but there is a literary element
within something that peoplewould assume was fluff.
Mattea Roach (22:31):
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (22:31):
that it's oh, this was an easy book to read,
but I took so much from it.
I was moved, it was meaningful.
And it's well written right atthe sentence level.
That's just like an example.
Mattea Roach (22:45):
Yeah, no, there's plenty of names that you can
shut out.
Like I would say for me, I wouldconsider less so the most
recent, Sally Rooney.
But Sally Rooney to me issomebody that's incredibly easy
to read.
Very clean prose,
Jason Blitman (22:59):
Yeah.
Mattea Roach (23:00):
the books also do have something
Jason Blitman (23:01):
a great way to put it.
Yeah.
Mattea Roach (23:02):
Yeah.
Like Inter Metzo, which I readright when it came out last
fall, definitely was the mostchallenging, of the novels in
the sense that she's trying todo something more stylistic with
one of the brothers in thatbook.
Kind of having this morefragmented perspective, almost a
bit joyent in the way that she'swriting trying to.
(23:25):
In a style that's reflective ofthe fact that it's a character
who is drinking a lot, who'sdoing a lot of benzos, that was
interesting and different fromanything that she'd done before.
But overall, like she's justeasy to read, very clean
sentences, can't complain aboutthat.
But then when you get into it,it's okay, we are talking about
the housing crisis and genderdynamics in a relationship and
(23:47):
so on.
And there are people that don'tenjoy Sally Ru think it's a bit
too.
Thinky white people go tocollege and talk about their
Jason Blitman (23:56):
because she doesn't use quotation marks.
If she used quotation marks forher dialogue, people wouldn't
think that.
I don't
Mattea Roach (24:01):
Really I see it.
It never even once occurred tome any, I've read all four of
the novels.
Never once did it occur to methat it was a problem, that
there were no quotation marksdid not
Jason Blitman (24:11):
I am not saying it's a problem.
I'm
Mattea Roach (24:13):
No.
I know people have really strongfeelings in good.
You'll read the Good Readsreviews.
Sometimes I sometimes.
And I shouldn't do this, butsometimes after I read a book, I
do go to Good Reads or StoryGraph, is actually the app that
I use more frequently to seewhat are the people saying.
Jason Blitman (24:30):
yes, it's good to know.
Mattea Roach (24:31):
Sometimes I'm quite baffled by what I find.
I'm like, oh that's how youjudge your experience of a book.
Interesting.
All right.
Jason Blitman (24:37):
It's, there is something so funny about being
an artist in general and how.
An audience is what really putsthe finishing touch on the art.
There is my, I don't wanna saymy favorite.
One of my favorite children'sbooks is called After the Fall
by the author Dan Sanat, and itis this beautiful book about
(25:02):
what happens after Humpty Dumptyfalls
Mattea Roach (25:05):
Oh.
Jason Blitman (25:07):
It's this story of this egg who is obsessed with
planes and flying, and the skyand the ending made me cry and
is beautiful, but was completelymisinterpreted by some readers.
(25:27):
And the reviews are people goingcrazy about the ending in a
negative way.
And I'm like, oh, you literallydidn't get it.
So there's sometimes where I'mlike, oh, you didn't get the art
that you consumed and you wish,and there was unfortunately no
way to engage with that, to say,wait a minute, you got it wrong.
Mattea Roach (25:47):
No.
And I don't subscribe to thebelief that there's a one single
correct way to interpret anygiven book.
I think that.
People can take away a lot ofdifferent things from books.
However, I do sometimes readthings and think there may not
be one right way, but perhapsthere are wrong ways in the
sense of, I just don't totallyknow, A plus B does not equal CI
(26:09):
remember reading after reading,crying in H Mark by Michelle's
Honor which is a grief memoir,Tough genre to write in.
I've, I generally do enjoyreading them.
I find them.
Cathartic to read.
I think that if you're somebodywho's going through a grieving
process, I found them to be likevery helpful
Jason Blitman (26:28):
it.
Got it.
I thought you just meant like ona Tuesday,
Mattea Roach (26:30):
no.
Like I went
Jason Blitman (26:31):
like, let me feel better about
Mattea Roach (26:32):
a period like two summers ago where I was reading
like a couple of them in a rowread crying and h smartt, which
I had purchased like agesbefore, and it had just been
sitting on the shelf and then itwas the right time.
Really liked it.
And then.
Went to Good Read's story graphand then saw these reviews that
were just people complainingabout she is so selfish.
She talks about herself so much.
(26:53):
And I was like, it's a memoir.
And also I think like she'sself-aware about some of her
feelings, maybe not being, she'snot the proudest of all of them.
Jason Blitman (27:04):
You can't have a memoir without me.
Mattea Roach (27:06):
yeah have you never had True, you really can't
have a memoir without
Jason Blitman (27:10):
You need me,
Mattea Roach (27:11):
Yeah.
Hello.
It's me.
Hi.
It's me.
You're all in danger.
Crazy girl.
Shit.
Gonna go spring breakers.
Jason Blitman (27:18):
Well.
You saying that thing about theit being the right time is So I
think for me, I think is soimportant when it comes to
reading in general.
And for us, unfortunately, we'renot always able to read a book
at the right time.
'cause for us the right time is.
Within the right amount of timeto interview an author.
But I started, I picked upcrying in H Mart, read a chapter
(27:41):
and was like, oh no.
This is not the right time forme because I don't have the
emotional capacity to read thisbook right now.
Mattea Roach (27:47):
Yeah, to No, totally.
My version of that is like I hadto stop watching succession
halfway through successionseason four because my dad died
while it was airing.
And season four famously isentirely Logan Roy died.
So I was like, you know what?
Okay, let's let's not watch thatright now.
I got enough of that at homecrying in H Mart.
However, I was like, this isgoing to be helpful because it's
(28:12):
well tonally big divide betweenthat and succession.
Jason Blitman (28:16):
Sure.
It's also not something everyoneis talking about in the
zeitgeist right now, and therecan be a bit of removal
Mattea Roach (28:21):
That's the thing I was glad to be reading.
Yeah.
Crying in h smartt.
I think it came out in 2021.
It was a weird, like COVIDrelease, the fact that it
managed to blow up in that waydespite, most of the events
being virtual events was quiteimpressive.
And I love Michelle's honor.
Like I love Japanese breakfast,as a band.
(28:42):
Had been a fan of theirs for along time.
Yeah, it was interesting to readit after the hype had died down,
after all the, good and bad,good reads, reviews had fallen.
Yeah, but back to what we'rereading now, I don't know.
Jason Blitman (28:55):
that, you had said something earlier about
reading about Zay Smith and you
Mattea Roach (28:59):
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (29:00):
People talk all the time about DN Fing books and
how many pages do you give abook?
You said you gave it a hundredpages, or once you hit about a
hundred pages, that's when youwere in it.
And what I find so interestingabout that is the ratio, you
said a hundred of 540 pages.
And for me, I think people don'talways give enough grace to the
(29:21):
port.
The proportion of the book thatyou're getting through,
Mattea Roach (29:25):
Yeah, I think for me, I really try to, not DNF
stuff, I will say I try to justbe discerning with what I'm
picking up in the first place sothat I'm not gonna dnf.
Jason Blitman (29:39):
the same.
Mattea Roach (29:40):
And I think the more you read, the better you
get at getting a read on yourown taste.
Whether or not you're gonna likesomething.
Obviously sometimes for work.
I will say I've been reallylucky with the producers that I
work with at CBC, the authorsthat we've had on the show.
There really hasn't beenanything that I've had on where
I felt, oh, like I do not feelgood recommending this author to
(30:01):
somebody.
Like even the books that I maybewould not have picked up of my
own accord, I could usuallypicture somebody in my mind that
I would feel comfortablerecommending this book to you
of, Hey, you know what?
This isn't maybe my thing, butthis person really loves
speculative fiction.
I I don't know why I picked thatas a genre.
'cause I'm okay with speculativetoo.
(30:22):
Just as an example,
Jason Blitman (30:23):
I ty, I try to, I don't often say I don't like a
book, or a book was bad.
I will say it was not for mebecause I, it was for someone,
obviously it got published or itwill be for someone else, and I
know someone who I couldrecommend it to, so it will be
for that other person.
But same as you.
I tend to feel that way abouteveryone.
I've had on the show and all the
Mattea Roach (30:43):
Yeah, no.
Short of like structuralproblems.
I think that there, there's adifference between the sort of
literary journalism that we'redoing, where we're doing
interviews, we're doingconversations about books, and
then the job of a critic, right?
Like I think it is important'cause this is one thing that I
do fear is maybe.
Being lost somewhat in theculture of Good reads, reviews
(31:04):
or in film like letterboxreviews, whatever, where any
person can get on the soapboxand say what they think about a
book that they've read, a moviethey've watched album they've
listened to, whatever.
There are some people who seemto think that any criticism.
(31:24):
Is essentially, you're justdogging on somebody or is
hateful.
And I don't think that's true,but I do see it as not my job to
do the work of a critic in myrole as like an interviewer of
authors.
I'm not trying to get somebodyon my show and be like, Hey, I
would like to confront you aboutsome things I didn't care for in
your novel.
Jason Blitman (31:42):
Correct.
Ask me what I think about as myquote unquote job for in, in
terms of in relation to theshow.
If I'm not a critic and I am andbeyond interviewer what is my
role here?
And I will say, I feel like myjob is to get you to fall in
love with this author, becauseif you fall in love with them,
then you can fall in love withtheir content or whatever.
(32:04):
Because for me it's about theartist and not the art
necessarily.
Mattea Roach (32:07):
Yeah.
That's exactly it, right?
Like I think sometimes.
Th authors can have amazingideas that don't always
translate into a book that isequally as amazing as the
thoughts behind them, if thatmakes sense.
Or there might be some reallylike interesting background
research that an author did towrite a novel that you're not
(32:28):
going to learn about justthrough reading the book.
But if you interview the author,talk to'em about it, listen to
that interview back, you mightlearn something.
Additional or, find somethingout about what compelled them to
dive into, say if it's ahistorical fiction, like a
particular period.
So yeah, there's definitelyvalue, I think in reading things
that are not totally your cup oftea.
I will say one thing that I'vereally enjoyed about my job and
(32:51):
about having a team around methat's quite diverse in terms of
their reading taste is that Ihave been pushed to read things
that I would ordinarily not evenconsider picking up and have
been forced to challenge somenotions about what my taste is
as a reader.
Jason Blitman (33:07):
Is there something that comes to mind
that you were pushed to readthat you ended up falling in
love with?
Mattea Roach (33:14):
Yeah.
So I will say I am a famousromance novel hater, romance
movie hater.
Like I don't generally like it.
Obviously so many books aredriven by romance, right?
But the genre of romance novelwhen you go to the store, and
that's the section that is not asection you're gonna find me in.
(33:35):
Just because I struggle with thekind of like happy ending
pursuit of the happy ending.
Pursuit of, what am I reading abook to feel good?
I'm thinking of the arresteddevelopment quote where they're
talking about the alternativeschool that maybe goes to, it's
oh, what you're sending her toone of those new age feel
goodies.
That's sometimes how I feel whenpeople are talking about needing
(33:56):
to escape into a romance novel.
It's just not.
Something that I crave, and Ithink for a while I was ignorant
to the like vast gradations inlike quality within the romance
genre, right?
Because some of it is likepulpy, schlocky stuff.
Some of it is done with a realsense of craft and the sentences
(34:17):
are good and there'sinteresting, perhaps allusions
to other things, and you canreally respect that.
You know what, if this personwanted to write a more literary
novel, they could, but they wantto write romance, and so that's
what they're doing.
So I really got into the pairingby Casey McQuiston.
That was one of the earlyinterviews that we did for
bookends.
And I was like actively annoyedat how much I was enjoying it
(34:39):
while reading it.
I was like, shit.
Like I got a, I felt like I wasbecoming uncool somehow for
enjoying it because I had
Jason Blitman (34:47):
so interesting 'cause of the stigma that
reading, quote unquote romancehas.
Mattea Roach (34:51):
Yeah, and I think it is a little bit of a it's a,
very like feminized genre,right?
It's overwhelmingly a genre thatis written by women, read by
women.
And so Casey McQuiston isactually like an interesting
figure to talk to in the romancegenre because they're writing
(35:13):
queer romance and are coming atit from this sort of genderqueer
or non-binary perspective.
And they've written, gay guys,they've written lesbians,
they've written this kind ofbisexual romance with a
character who's navigatinggender with the pairing.
And I think basically I wasreading it and I was like, okay,
(35:34):
you got me gal.
Like fine, like I'll admit it.
You.
You did a good job.
The book's good.
Okay.
And they were just such a greatcon, like I could have talked to
'em all day long.
I think we had a ton of stuff incommon and just
Jason Blitman (35:49):
So
Mattea Roach (35:49):
Came to very different reading habits out of
those things in common, whichwas so fascinating.
Jason Blitman (35:53):
I don't mean to be like a therapist about this
because I have my own answertoo.
How did that make you feel?
How did reading something thatyou like were digging your heels
in and you didn't think you weregonna like it, you didn't even
want to like it, but then youwere like, okay, I liked it.
Mattea Roach (36:08):
The, these are very, the, I think I probably
did actually bring this up justin passing in therapy at the
time of just this is weird.
It was a lot on the go.
I I think it made me reallycheck in about do I have an
aversion to joy?
Do I just really hate beinghappy?
Jason Blitman (36:27):
Oh, that's so interesting.
Mattea Roach (36:29):
'Cause even earlier in our conversation I
mentioned I think, when you'redoing your reading for leisure,
it should be like work, which isa very Catholic attitude to have
towards your leisure time.
And I would say that I have likea.
You can, I call it Catholic'cause that's my religious
tradition that I was brought upin.
Others might call it if theywere brought up Protestant, the
Protestant work ethic.
I have this idea that we shouldbe trying to improve ourselves
(36:51):
to some extent through ourleisure pursuits.
And so I thought like romance isthis sort of fluffy thing that
you are turning to, to escapeand it's not necessarily
weighty.
Two things that I learnedthrough reading the pairing.
One is that was a book that didhave some heft to it in terms
of, you have characters that aredealing with, like navigating
(37:13):
gender identity, dealing withgrief in that book.
Like one of the characters wasdealing with loss of a parent
and how that affected theirability to be in a relationship.
Like dealing with.
Being a young person, trying tofigure out your career and
distinguish yourself as perhapsseparate from a family that has
a bit of a family business.
Like one of the characters inthat book that's like all of the
other people in their familywork in the film industry these
(37:36):
are like real subjects that I'm,I am in the demographic that
book was written for.
So it, shouldn't be shocking tome that I did end up enjoying
it, but I think I also developedan appreciation for, what.
Maybe it is okay that somepeople, when they're having a
hard time do just want to pullthe escape hatch and go to
(37:56):
another world and not thinkabout their problems as opposed
to me, where I'm like, let methink about my problems even
more.
Let me watch or read or listento art that makes me think about
my problems.
Jason Blitman (38:08):
There is something though to be said that
even, the world of James Joyceis not exactly your world.
So there is an escape element.
Even still I feel like I'mconstantly challenged to just
reexamine.
What I'm, what I think my owntaste is.
I had zero interest in any EmilySt.
(38:29):
John Mendel books.
It was any book with, any sortof space.
Something on the cover is notfor me.
I assumed I saw that oneverybody's end of year list.
What, three or four years ago,whenever it was Sea of
Tranquility.
And I was like all of thesereaders who I trust, this book
is one of their top 10 favoritebooks.
So let me just read it.
(38:49):
And I read it in like Novemberand sure enough, it was one of
my favorite books of the year.
And then I, read station 11 andfell in love and was like, okay,
let me challenge I love a good
Mattea Roach (39:00):
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (39:01):
And maybe it's okay that it's a genre that
doesn't
Mattea Roach (39:04):
It's so funny that you should say that because I
also have beef with the conceptof space in that I just am not
that interested in it.
But
Jason Blitman (39:13):
of, do you not believe that it exists?
Mattea Roach (39:15):
I, no, look don't try to get me like that.
No, of course.
I believe it exists.
It's just I struggle toconceptualize it.
And I feel like there's so muchon the go on earth.
That I can't even fathom beingthat worried about what's going
on in space.
Jason Blitman (39:29):
real, I feel you.
Mattea Roach (39:30):
And I think just also if we were living in a time
where space exploration was amore, I don't know, felt like a
nobler pursuit.
If it was the sixties and I wasreally rah, it's the Cold War.
Are the Americans gonna get tothe moon?
Isn't the progress of manamazing?
Like I can see that in thatcontext.
(39:51):
I might.
Be really impressed at just likewhat humans are able to achieve
currently.
The vibes that I get from a lotof this, blue Origin Virgin
let's send Katy Perry and GayleKing to space for some reason I
don't particularly care for it.
So it's funny to me that what'syour beef with space?
That's what I'm curious aboutnow.
Jason Blitman (40:09):
I think it's less space and more like that just
that shows science fiction.
It shows some sort offantastical component and I
don't mind, I.
A fantasy element in somethingthat's a bit more grounded
generally speaking.
Mattea Roach (40:25):
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (40:27):
So it surprised me that I was as engaged as I
was.
Mattea Roach (40:32):
Yeah.
And did you read Sea Tranquilityand then go back and read
Station 11?
Jason Blitman (40:38):
I did.
Mattea Roach (40:38):
Okay.
Interesting.
Yeah.
'cause I, so I read Station 11for Canda Res, which is the
panel show that the CBC does.
So before I was working for CBCbooks and hosting bookends.
My part of my way into this jobis that I was cast as a panelist
on Canda Reeds, which is thisdebate show that they run every
spring and it's this battle ofthe books where they'll get
(41:00):
five.
I'm doing air quotes for thelisteners.
Celebrity panelists.
Who I I do not consider myself acelebrity.
I think, no, I would prefer tonot be one.
People that are known toCanadians sometimes like
athletes tv, homegrown TV starsoccasionally like retired
politicians.
(41:22):
Like we had a, we had a booktalker on my year, which was
cool.
Anyway.
Five people, they each pick abook and then they defend it and
say this is the book all ofCanada should read this year.
And then every day for a week,like each a book gets voted off
and then there's like a winnerand so on, so forth.
So it's this huge driver of booksales in Canada.
(41:42):
It's wild, like you look at thebestseller lists every year and
the books that end up gettingchosen for this program are
often amongst the top sellingtitles.
So it has real impact.
And yeah, I'm, I'm now, I'm justboosting like other work that
happens that my coworkers do.
But I was a panelist on the showbefore I ever worked at CBC
books, and the year that I wason Station 11 was one of the
(42:06):
books in the competition.
And so I had to read it in thatcontext, which is a very strange
context in which to read a bookbecause I was reading it and
really liked it.
But it was not my selection.
Yeah, no, it was not myselection as the book that all
of Canada should read.
I was defending Ducks by KateBeaton and so I basically had to
be like, my book can beat upyour book.
(42:27):
And in
Jason Blitman (42:27):
Technically Dux is
Mattea Roach (42:29):
it was physically
Jason Blitman (42:30):
Right?
Mattea Roach (42:30):
I made that exact same joke at the time.
I was like, physically this isby far the largest book, so it's
gonna win.
And you know what?
I did win.
It was a sleigh station.
11 was in the final.
It was a really, like you.
Jason Blitman (42:41):
Yes.
Good contender.
Mattea Roach (42:43):
Yeah.
Strong contender Michael Grey,the actor who's been in, what
has he been in?
Ah, my god.
Jason Blitman (42:52):
It's okay.
We'll
Mattea Roach (42:53):
Rutherford Falls.
That's the show that was in theUS that he's been in that people
might know.
Rutherford Falls was MichaelGrey's credit that I was trying
to think of.
Anyway just amazing, reallythoughtful, had amazing stuff to
say about Station 11.
And I was like, I do not enjoythat.
I have to claim that my book ismore important.
Jason Blitman (43:12):
Yeah,
Mattea Roach (43:12):
crazy, but it gets the people reading.
So I read station 11 first, thenwent to Sea of Tranquility, is
what this is all to say.
And I think that going in thatorder maybe makes the later
Emily St.
John Mandel make a bit moresense.
Jason Blitman (43:25):
Yeah.
Mattea Roach (43:25):
don't know if you felt that going backwards.
Jason Blitman (43:28):
So I had, my experience was also very
different because I read Station11 during a pandemic.
Mattea Roach (43:35):
Oh my God.
Jason Blitman (43:37):
So talk about a weird time to read that book.
So yeah, that in and of itselfwas its own We're like, I'm
taking up so much of your time.
Are there other things that youwanna rattle off before we let
you go?
'cause I like need what is onyour list?
We, the people are gonna.
Mattea Roach (43:53):
my God.
The people.
What
Jason Blitman (43:54):
Eat it up.
Mattea Roach (43:55):
Oh, this is, yeah.
See this is terrible.
'cause I'm such like ameandering talker that I, you
could just let me rattle thingsoff for hours and I
Jason Blitman (44:03):
Me too.
I just posted a video todayabout Kora four and I talking
about chocolate,
Mattea Roach (44:09):
Oh my goodness.
Jason Blitman (44:09):
was like, how did they end up talking about
chocolate?
Mattea Roach (44:12):
Yeah, all you wanna talk about a book that I
probably would not have readwere it not for my job, death of
the author, NAIA Kor.
Jason Blitman (44:20):
Loved.
Mattea Roach (44:21):
I was really surprised by how much I liked
it.
I was like, you know what?
Jason Blitman (44:24):
me too.
Mattea Roach (44:25):
you.
I believe my producer, Ryan B.
Patrick, shout out was whobrought that to my desk and
yeah, what an amazing catalog ofwork she has.
Jason Blitman (44:36):
Yeah.
Mattea Roach (44:36):
And again, also somebody that just as like a
thinker as somebody who existsin the culture has so much to
say outside of her novels.
Yeah.
But yeah, no, and alsodefinitely
Jason Blitman (44:47):
hear more.
Mattea Roach (44:48):
rambling talker.
Yeah.
Like I, I'm, I think that wealso had a pretty meandering
conversation that again, I'm notthe editor of my show, so I
didn't have to deal with makingthat fit in the 54 minutes of a
radio broadcast.
Yeah,
Jason Blitman (45:01):
and mine is not a radio
Mattea Roach (45:02):
that,
Jason Blitman (45:02):
go on as long as we want.
Mattea Roach (45:04):
that is the beauty of podcasting.
I don't know.
I love terrestrial radio.
I have a real love of bothforms, right?
Like I'm young enough that I'vecome of age with podcasts.
Like I remember when Serial cameout and it was such a big deal.
I remember when Welcome toNightvale launched, like those
were the things I was listeningto in high school.
(45:25):
I've always been a big.
A podcast listener for news.
Like it's a big part of my mediadiet, but I also have this like
real love of just basicterrestrial radio.
The idea that you'reparticipating in a communal
activity and you're listening atthe same time as people.
I'm not a fan of Colin shows perse, like I'll listen to, for
instance, the live stream of theBBC's alternative music station,
(45:47):
BBC six, and they'll have peopletexting in to say, what they're
doing while they're listeningsometimes.
And that's just makes you feelless isolated.
You're speaking about readingstation 11 during COVID, like
listening to the radio duringCOVID and being part of a sort
of communal media consumptionexperience is something that I
found very powerful.
But yeah, the problem withradio, you gotta fit it in an
(46:09):
hour.
Jason Blitman (46:11):
Right.
Mattea Roach (46:11):
So you might have a really amazing conversation
with someone and it might justbe too long and you don't get to
put all of that on the radio,but.
We might get to put that in thepodcast.
I don't know.
So that's a fun bit of my jobthat I don't have to put my
Jason Blitman (46:24):
Don't have to worry
Mattea Roach (46:25):
Yeah, exactly.
I don't know what's a good codato leave this on in terms of
what am I reading?
Jason Blitman (46:31):
you, you are the, you have the list in front of
you,
Mattea Roach (46:33):
I have the list in front of me.
My grand finale, I would say.
The thing that I'm like next,most excited to pick up
Jason Blitman (46:42):
That's a great way to
Mattea Roach (46:43):
is something that's in a box in my house.
'cause I moved recently and Igotta dig around to find it.
But I have been reading a bookthat is not yet released letters
to Milina, which is by ChristinaSteamer, and it's based on.
Milina Senka, who I might bebutchering the pronunciation of
(47:03):
her name a little bit, who was ajournalist translator and really
like Freedom Fighter living ininitially Austria Hungary and
then Czechoslovakia in the earlypart of the 20th century.
And she was a lover of FranzKafka and she was also a
translator of some of his workfrom German into Czech.
(47:24):
And so this is a novel that'sfrom her perspective and like
details.
Her love affair with him andtheir working relationship.
And there's actual, like realexcerpts from his letters to
her, which exist in archivesthat are incorporated into the
book.
And so the premise is like herletters to him actually been
lost.
She died and I think it wasBuchenwald concentration camp.
(47:46):
During the Second World War aslike a political prisoner.
And so many of lots of documentsrelating to her work, have been
lost.
We don't have them.
And so this is this return toher work and thinking about what
her role was as this femalejournalist who was resisting
Nazism at a time that hercountry was occupied.
And was also having, a reallyroaring twenties hooking up with
(48:08):
France Kafka apparently.
Anyway, what I'm looking aroundfor in my house is, now that
I've read that book I would liketo return to some Kafka stories,
and I have this like Kafkareader.
That I got for free when I wasvisiting a friend of mine who
was doing his masters at Oxfordlast year, there was this like
big campaign going on at thetime around the centennial of
(48:31):
Kafka's death.
And there were just like freecopies of this reader
everywhere.
And I took one'cause my friendthat I was visiting was like, I
don't want one.
And I'm a student, I'm allowedto take it.
So why don't you just grab it?
You like this guy.
So I'm ready to whip out themetamorphosis with some special.
New material.
(48:51):
I forget exactly what the newmaterial is.
That's in that Oxford edition,but I'm gonna find out once I
yeah.
Once I dig it out of whateverbox it's in, in my house.
Jason Blitman (49:01):
For some simple casual summer poolside, reading
Mattea Roach (49:05):
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (49:06):
Kafka by the Kafka, by the shore.
Mattea Roach (49:08):
Kafka by the, literally Kafka by the shore.
Yeah.
Kafka on the porch.
Kafka by the pool.
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (49:16):
That could be like a whole Instagram
Mattea Roach (49:18):
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (49:19):
you're reading Kafka.
Mattea Roach (49:20):
Where I'm read, I do love to drop a little.
If I'm on vacation somewhere andI'm reading in a nice location,
I do love to drop a little.
I'm at the beach and here's mytitle.
I actually did get so much sandin my copy of letters to me over
the weekend because I did takeit to the beach.
Thankfully.
Jason Blitman (49:39):
World War II be treated.
Mattea Roach (49:41):
Yeah, no.
Yeah, I, yeah, no I had toactually shake sand out of the
book when I got back from thebeach.
It was not good.
But you know what books aremeant to be read, engaged with
and loved?
I am, I may be a collector.
I've got a lot of stacks ofthings sitting around my house
and in my office, but these areitems that I'm using.
I don't need everything to becompletely pristine.
(50:02):
I don't know,
Jason Blitman (50:04):
No, I agree.
Mattea Roach (50:04):
Spill coffee.
I don't know.
Jason Blitman (50:06):
I don't dog ear, but I write in books.
I do.
I tab books, but I can't, Istill can't dog
Mattea Roach (50:13):
I don't dog ear either.
I only recently got into writingin books for a long time.
I was not a writer in books.
And then a good friend of mine,actually, they made this stamp
for themself, like they have ahuge library books.
They made this stamp that waslike, please write, comment on
scribble in the margins of.
(50:33):
This book, I'm butchering thewording.
But they put this stamp in allof their books and when they
lend books out to people, theyare very clear.
Oh, if you have thoughts andwanna write these in the
margins, like you can write inmy book, I don't mind.
And that was really cool.
It feels like having aconversation.
And so sometimes now with booksthat I am reading for work, I
(50:55):
will write in the margins
Jason Blitman (50:57):
it's typically
Mattea Roach (50:58):
to tell myself a little joke sometimes.
Jason Blitman (51:00):
a joke.
I'll ask myself questions.
I'll ask questions of the
Mattea Roach (51:03):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or if if something has reallyupset me, I might write some
question marks.
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (51:09):
Mateo Roach, thank you so much for being
here.
Mattea Roach (51:11):
thank you for having me.
This has been so fun.
And again, I feel like we couldhave been one of those Joe Rogan
esque, like three and a halfhour long podcasts.
But
Jason Blitman (51:21):
we'll just have to do this again.
Mattea Roach (51:22):
We'll just have to, we'll just have to get on
the live stream do some moreshenanigans.
But yeah.
Thank you so much and great tobe podcast cousins with you.
Jason Blitman (51:30):
I love the, I love our.
Family tree.
Everyone go check out MateoRoach and their show bookends,
the CBC's Literary podcast.
It is wherever you get yourpodcast, but of course it's only
54 minutes because it's also onthe radio,
Mattea Roach (51:44):
Sometimes extended cuts.
Sometimes extended cuts.
Jason Blitman (51:47):
cuts.
Go check out bookends, followgaze reading on Instagram,
wherever you get your podcast.
Thank you Matea, for being here.
Thank you everyone for beinghere.
Have a great rest of your day.
Gaze reading where the greatsdrop by trendy authors.
Tell us all the who, what, andwhy.
Anyone can listen.
Comes we're spoiler free Readingfrom politic stars to book club
picks where the curious mindscan get their picks.
So you say you're not gay.
(00:24):
Well that's okay.
There's something for everyone.
Gays rating.
Jason Blitman (00:34):
Hello and welcome to Gay's Reading and this new,
exciting, fun series that I'mcalling a very simple, what are
you reading?
And I am thrilled to be herewith to My Ears, a celebrity
Mateo Roach, who is the host ofBookends, the CBC's Literary
(00:58):
podcast.
And.
Our the Gaze Reading listenersknow their voice from the ads,
from the Gaze Reading episodes.
Mateo Roach, welcome to readingin this new series that I'm
starting.
I'm thrilled to have you.
Mattea Roach (01:14):
Ah, thank you so much for having me.
I got jump scared by my own adactually, when I was listening
to one of these other, what areyou reading episodes?
Trying to catch the vibe of whatit might be like to chat with
you.
And then, yeah, I got hit withmy own voice when I was not
expecting it.
Very scary.
Hopefully the other listenersare not as scared as I was to
hear my voice.
Jason Blitman (01:32):
No, you have a great podcast voice, obviously.
And I love it.
For me, it's soothing when Ihear it on my own episodes'cause
it's a break from my own voice,
Mattea Roach (01:43):
That's very kind of you.
Yeah, I think most podcasters, Iwould say, are not soothed so
much by the sound of their ownvoice.
And you're having to, listen tothe same recording often of
yourself multiple times and justrelive Do I like how I asked
that question?
Did my voice crack in a weirdway?
So to hear that somebody elsewho's an expert podcaster finds
(02:04):
me soothing.
That's actually very nice.
Jason Blitman (02:06):
Very soothing.
You're Canadian, which is likeextra soothing both in how you
talk, but also just like in yourgeneral spirit because we're
going through a tough time downbelow.
Mattea Roach (02:18):
Aren't you just yeah, I have a little, a light
regional accent that sometimescomes out to play too.
Like I was just back in NovaScotia visiting family.
Couple weeks ago.
Now, sometimes if I'm there fora little while, you start to
hear some folksiness creep backin.
Jason Blitman (02:33):
What does Folksiness sound like to you?
Mattea Roach (02:35):
Oh, I don't wanna do an imitation'cause it's gonna
be, but I think there are someaccents when you get to Cape
Rutton, which is where a lot ofmy family's from.
And especially if you go toNewfoundland in the eastern
region of Canada, that start toalmost get Irish, yeah, it's on
a continuum.
So it's interesting, like I willnotice accent creep if I'm
hanging out with my mom'srelatives that live in a sort of
(02:56):
small fishing and tourist town.
And then I'll come back to thecity and think, huh, I'm talking
different.
Jason Blitman (03:02):
interesting.
Is it?
Is it, and again, I don't wantyou to do an imitation, but is
it specific words that younotice?
Is it like a general across theboard?
I ask'cause my husband is fromStaten Island and it is very, it
is some specific words.
Mattea Roach (03:16):
an accent that I think comes out to play on
specific words for sure.
I would say the biggest telltalesign for me is the AR sound.
So I would say often if I'mtalking to a cousin who lives at
home or something like that,it'll be a, if you're, the
standard Boston accent sentenceto say is I parked the car in
Harvard Yard, but I just saidit.
Not in the Boston way, but in away that also to some ears
(03:38):
sounds crazy.
Jason Blitman (03:39):
right
Mattea Roach (03:40):
it's a bit of a nasally error.
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (03:42):
that.
Okay.
Okay.
Thank you
Mattea Roach (03:44):
That's the telltale sign.
Jason Blitman (03:46):
Set a time and place for us.
I appreciate that.
Okay.
You do.
I feel like we're cousinsbecause our podcast, I feel like
are cut from the same cloth andyet are very different, which is
I guess, what cousins reallyare.
Mattea Roach (04:01):
That's exactly what cousins are.
Yeah.
I,
Jason Blitman (04:03):
What has your reading journey been like?
Let's find, what are you, whatare we reading now?
Mattea Roach (04:08):
okay, so we're chatting, it's early August.
I think we can say August 7th.
End of the first week.
So it's a slow period,relatively speaking for me,
reading wise in that I haven'tbeen producing interviews
through the summer.
Beautiful thing about publicradio.
We get to do some summer reruns,have a little summer hiatus,
summer vacation, which meansthat I have some time to dive
(04:30):
into maybe the back lists ofsome authors that I'm excited
about that I might be talking toin the fall.
Do in theory, a little bit ofpleasure reading as well.
So what have I been readinglately?
I can look at the books that I'musing to prop up my computer and
I can also look at my littleiPhone note.
Currently I'm reading Deep Cutsby Holly Brickley, which is
(04:52):
being adapted into a film by a24.
It's gonna have Austin ButlerSea, Sharon Ronan, are you
familiar with Deep Cuts?
Is this a title that's crossedyour desk?
Jason Blitman (05:01):
It has crossed my desk.
Mattea Roach (05:02):
Okay.
How do you feel about it?
Have you read it?
Jason Blitman (05:04):
Listen, this deep cuts is the perfect.
Example of book comp tragedyBecause I, I'm the kind of
person who maybe give me a lineor a vibe of what a book might
be about, but I am not reading ablurb.
I like to go in as blind aspossible.
(05:27):
When deep cuts is compared totomorrow and tomorrow, or
compared to Daisy Jones in thesix or other books that sort of
hold a certain kind of value inthe canon, you have
expectations.
And so it is impossible to go inwithout those expectations.
But I want to go in as clear aspossible, and I would argue that
(05:50):
deep cuts was the was thattragedy for me.
It did not hold up to what I waspromised, but I didn't dislike
it.
Mattea Roach (05:58):
I think the vibe that I'm getting about deep
cuts, so I am really interested.
We're going to interview HollyBrickley, have her on the show.
I'm really interested to talk toher.
I think that it seems to be abook that really hits if you
went to college at a specifictime and if the references are
your references.
So talking to my coworkers,there's a couple folks around
the office who were in collegein that early aughts.
(06:19):
Period where they weregraduating into the era of indie
sleaze and these were the bandsthat they were really excited
about and the methods of sharingmusic.
That was how they would sharemusic and this is how they would
talk about it.
Whereas I miss this wholeperiod.
Like my dad, who is a big, was abig influence on my music taste
was like too old for that.
(06:39):
He was coming of age musicallyin the eighties.
Listening to vinyl records andshout out Brave New Wave, CBC
Radio, the program that reallygot him into a lot of
alternative stuff that heenjoyed back in the day.
And then I was like going tohigh school and university in
the 2010s.
So past the indie sleaze period,we were firmly in the era of
streaming.
So it was interesting for me toread this book that was about
(07:01):
this period that was clearlylike coming from a place of such
passion and I respect thepassion.
But it's just not the specificstuff that I'm passionate about,
but I always love talking topeople about that passion and
like getting to understand,okay, why is this important to
you?
We've actually had a couple oflike music writers on bookends.
(07:24):
During the first season, nowthat I think about it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Books about music or we even didone of the 33 and a third by
Bloomsbury, like that series ofbooks that are the deep dives
into albums.
We had Leah Caro on to talkabout Hounds of Love by Kate
Bush and the book that she wroteabout that album.
And I just love hearing peoplego deep on the records that
really are important to them.
(07:45):
And it's cool that I get to dothat sometimes on a book show.
Jason Blitman (07:47):
Yeah.
What would your deep dive be ifyou were to write a deep
Mattea Roach (07:53):
Oh I've thought about this.
I don't know if anybody who's aneditor at Bloomsbury Press
listens to gay's reading.
I would, if I got my acttogether.
Love to do Blue Rev by Always isan album that I have a lot to
say about.
There's a.
Really interesting story interms of the production of that
album.
There was a flood where a lot ofthe original recordings got
(08:13):
damaged.
It took many years for them toput it together.
COVID happened while they wereputting it together.
There's an amazing story aroundlike a lot of the visuals, the
album cover and some of thevideos coming from Molly Rankin,
the lead singer, like herfamily's kind of archival home
movies and photos from herchildhood.
(08:34):
She's from Cape Breton.
I have a lot to say about that.
It's like that's, that's wheremy family's from.
There's these parallels, like Icould talk about Blue Rev all
day long.
So if I was going to go deep ona book and write a little tome,
that would probably be my toppick.
Jason Blitman (08:47):
What.
If not music, what would yourdeep dive subject be?
Mattea Roach (08:53):
Oh, deep dive subject for a book.
That's a good question.
I don't, I just don't considermyself an authority on anything.
I'm not an authority on musiceither, but I, at least I
Jason Blitman (09:05):
but what is something that you love, so
maybe something you love that,that you would become an
authority on to write the book.
Mattea Roach (09:11):
I could see a world in which I became one of
those, like small press Canadianpolitics.
Authors like I have a buddy whorecently I think adapted his, I
believe it was his master'sthesis that got adapted into a
book that's about like Canadianpension investments.
I wouldn't specifically do that.
(09:31):
It's called Policing the Crisis.
Tom Frazier showed out policingthe Crisis by Tom Frazier, who I
met in high school and likestill know now in Toronto.
Yeah, no good for him.
It's a deep dive into pensioninvestment funds.
I would not do specificallythat, but I could see myself
getting interested in somethingsimilarly.
Policy wonky.
Jason Blitman (09:50):
Sure.
It would sit next to it on theshelf.
Mattea Roach (09:52):
Yeah.
These are all things, it's likewhat?
You're probably like, why did Ibook?
I booked you to talk aboutnovels and here you're talking
about music and
Jason Blitman (10:00):
I love to, this is, we go down rabbit holes on
the gays reading because younever know.
Mattea Roach (10:07):
No, you
Jason Blitman (10:07):
okay.
What else are you reading?
Mattea Roach (10:08):
What else am I reading?
Okay.
What have I read lately?
I mentioned reading backlist,right?
So some of what I wanna doduring the summer, now that I'm
not having to like activelyproduce, we're producing
typically two interviews a weekfor bookends, which means
reading minimum two books aweek.
And you don't always have timeto necessarily dive into an
author's back catalog or reallysit with stuff for as long as
(10:31):
you might like to.
So the slower period has beengood for me to read some
canonical stuff that I mighthave missed.
One thing I read recently that Iadored and I feel silly for not
having read it sooner, but alsoI'm glad I read
Jason Blitman (10:46):
pen is ready.
Mattea Roach (10:47):
Dublin's James Joyce.
Shout out James
Jason Blitman (10:50):
Oh,
Mattea Roach (10:51):
Yeah.
I actually did a little writeupfor the Toronto Star about this
as part of the, this like summerreading recommendation thing
that they did.
Do you remember that?
I think it was the Chicago.
Sun, I wanna say the ai, the SunTimes, the AI generated summer
reading list with the fakebooks.
Yes.
Yeah.
One of the culture writers atthe Star basically had this idea
(11:13):
of, okay, we're gonna get actualpeople to do a real curated
recommendations list.
Folks that are working in theCanadian literature space, and I
thought, okay, I don't wannapick a book that's been on the
show that feels like picking afavorite child.
What am I reading that'sdifferent?
And I happened to be like onvacation at the time, and I had
this beat up library copy ofDublin Earth that I think, I
(11:36):
don't know, it was probably likea 20-year-old book, had clearly
been well loved and taken outmany times.
Those stories hold up.
They're so funny.
I think I didn't realize howfunny James Joyce is.
And it made me really wannaactually get into the novels,
which I know is more of aproject.
But yeah, like it's kind ofsocial comedy.
It definitely helps if you knowa little bit about what was
(11:58):
going on in Ireland at the time.
I think that enhances yourunderstanding,
Jason Blitman (12:02):
That's good to know.
Mattea Roach (12:03):
but it's also like a window into that.
If you don't know about Ireland,read the stories and then.
Think, okay, what are these guystalking about when they're at
the pub discussing thesenationalist politicians?
'cause this was still during theperiod where Ireland was not an
independent state.
It's pre-Easter rising, preIrish civil war still under home
rule.
(12:23):
It's a really fascinatingperiod.
So it's a window in to that, ina way.
Jason Blitman (12:29):
It's it.
I didn't read more than achapter of it yet, but I started
reading Moby Dick
Mattea Roach (12:38):
Ooh.
Jason Blitman (12:39):
similar reason I've, I was like, I feel like
this is Canon.
There are other books that havecome out that talk about the
queerness of Moby Dick.
So I was curious to like.
Cross-reference.
But what surprised me was howmuch I was laughing in that
first chapter.
I was like, this is so dense.
And it's not dissimilar fromlike funny Shakespeare where
(12:59):
you're like, wait, I'm, I haveto think about this in a new and
different way.
But it's commenting on somethingthat is surprising and I'm
finding it so funny all at thesame time.
Mattea Roach (13:09):
That's really interesting.
I have, I think this is, I don'tknow if I've been like putting
my head in the sand or wet.
I feel like this is maybe thefirst time that I'm really
reckoning with the queer angleof Moby Dick.
I have not read Moby Dick.
I've heard a lot about Moby Dickbecause people love it.
People are real stands for thatbook.
I gotta say, I must read it atsome point.
Amy Schneider of Jeopardy fameis like a
Jason Blitman (13:30):
reading guest.
Mattea Roach (13:31):
huge Moby Dick person has talked to me at
length about it before.
Jason Blitman (13:36):
Susan Rieger who wrote the novel, like mother has
read Moby Dick three times.
I was like, Susan, it is
Mattea Roach (13:42):
It's not a short book either, right?
That's a commitment.
You've gotta really wanna diveback in there.
Jason Blitman (13:47):
Yeah.
So no, it's, it is definitelylike a staple for some people.
Like there, there is passionbehind it and I
Mattea Roach (13:55):
you know what?
I really should at some point, Idon't know that this is gonna be
my Moby Dick summer.
I think that this was my introto James Joyce summer, and that
was good.
We check that off.
But it is a novel, but wailing,like it's, it's a seafaring
novel.
Cultural similarities.
Again, like regional literature,I wanna stay tapped into that
East coast vibe.
So I do think I need to read itat some point.
Jason Blitman (14:17):
Yeah.
I said we're cousins.
You are the, you are James thissummer, and I also have a James
this summer.
James, I did my first JamesBaldwin,
Mattea Roach (14:25):
Oh, okay.
Which one?
Jason Blitman (14:27):
Giovanni's room.
Mattea Roach (14:29):
okay in.
Thank goodness'cause that is theone that I have read.
I also always need to read moreBaldwin.
Jason Blitman (14:35):
Yeah.
Mattea Roach (14:35):
Giovanni's room for a course that I did in
university and devoured itdistressing novel at some
points.
But beautiful.
Jason Blitman (14:44):
Beautiful.
Loved, loved it.
Appreciated how short it was.
Mattea Roach (14:49):
He know James Baldwin had a real economy with
words
Jason Blitman (14:53):
Yes.
It wasn't, it was it.
wasn't like, oh, I'm glad it'sshort, so I could finish it
faster.
I was like, oh, this is, it islike a decadent meal and you
could only eat so much of it.
Yeah.
Mattea Roach (15:03):
exactly.
It's impressive what he's ableto pack into a short package.
And same with any of his essaysthat you read, any of his
interview excerpts that youread.
It's almost when poets writenovels often, I find that every
word has very specific meaning.
Really needs to be there.
James Baldwin almost is likethat for me.
There's no word that issuperfluous.
Jason Blitman (15:22):
A hundred percent I, among my new favorite, not
even new favorite things, butI've realized the more I've read
that I love a poet's novel.
Mattea Roach (15:31):
Yeah.
That was, so my firstintroduction to your podcast
actually was when you weretalking to Kava Akbar, but
Martyr
Jason Blitman (15:39):
That was the first one that came to mind.
Mattea Roach (15:42):
exactly.
Rolling back the clock a littlebit, when Bookends launched last
fall.
There was a whole process to getthe show launched.
When you're doing a show for theCanadian Broadcasting
Corporation, it's you producelike a radio pilot essentially
as though you were doing a TVpitch.
And so Kava was actually one ofthe guests that we had on for
our pilot episode that we had tosend up to management to say,
(16:04):
Hey, this is gonna be the vibeof the show.
Do you like it, please?
I would like a job.
so the stakes were really highfor that interview, and he was
such a gracious guest.
I loved that book.
It was so perfect.
Exactly what I needed to read atthe time.
And yeah, completely a poet'snovel, like word choice.
So elegant.
(16:26):
I really felt like it.
I don't know.
It's, it speaks to the time it'swritten in.
Jason Blitman (16:30):
100%.
Yes.
Yes.
That wa when I think poet'snovel, that is the
Mattea Roach (16:35):
Yeah, no I am eager to see whether he writes
more novel.
I don't know a, anything hewrites I'm gonna be excited to
read in the future for sure.
Kava?
Jason Blitman (16:44):
Big fan.
I love this.
I love this.
For us, we could talk all abouthim all day long.
Were there other books that youwanted to shout out?
'cause I'm very curious if notto, in general, I wanna hear
more
Mattea Roach (16:53):
all right.
I've, yeah I need a little, alist of things.
So some of this is preparatoryfor things we've got brewing in
the fall.
There's a new Zaby Smith essaycollection coming out in the
fall.
And again, I have not that greatof a knowledge of the canon of
anything really.
I did not do a literature degreein university.
I did a sexual diversity studiesdegree, which.
(17:16):
I will defend to the deaf, likeit was a real degree, it was
rigorous.
I did a couple of Englishcourses within it, but I missed
a lot of what you might get ifyou took an English degree where
you're like doing, here's mycontemporary British course,
here's my
Jason Blitman (17:31):
a Bachelor's of Fine Arts in theater.
Mattea Roach (17:34):
in theater.
See?
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (17:37):
understand.
Mattea Roach (17:38):
Yeah.
So you're adjacent but not quitethere in
Jason Blitman (17:41):
No.
My cannon is empty.
I need to pack the cannonballs.
We
Mattea Roach (17:46):
And the good news is the cannon's not going
anywhere.
The bad news is it's alwaysexpanding and, there's debates
about what is canonical, what isnot.
Yeah, there's just a feastalways if things you read.
So anyhow had not read any ZaSmith prior to, I don't know.
Two months ago or something,whenever I first picked up white
teeth in anticipation of, I mayneed to read this essay
(18:09):
collection that's coming out inthe fall.
White teeth is so good.
The hype is deserved.
I have to say the hype isdeserved.
Jason Blitman (18:16):
It's this is, I am such a late in life reader
and I.
When I first really startedreading, the way I would joke
about talking about books was asthough I discovered reading,
have you heard of this new thingcalled reading?
It is so great.
So hearing you say that aboutwhite teeth, it's, it is
(18:36):
reminiscent of me just talkingabout books in general.
It's oh yeah, this thing I'vebeen hearing about for my whole
life.
It's really good.
Mattea Roach (18:43):
this is one of my very best friends last summer
was so excited.
I, we were hanging out at myhouse or something.
He was so excited to play thisgroup of people a song that he'd
just heard for the first timethat he thought was so good and
it was, dog Days are Over byFlorence and The Machine.
And I was like.
Sir, this is a very good song.
They did cover it on Glee.
However, like this is not,
Jason Blitman (19:03):
Been around a long
Mattea Roach (19:04):
Proud of you, happy for you.
You do have good taste.
This was on Glee.
That's me coming in 25 yearsafter the fact saying, Hey guys,
have you heard about WhiteTeeth?
Also, frankly, me coming insaying, 110 years after the
fact, y'all heard about
Jason Blitman (19:20):
Joyce is killing it.
Mattea Roach (19:22):
Yeah, but look we need to.
I think sometimes shout out andhonor and remember that stuff
that came out a while ago isalso good.
I think sometimes there's thisurge to always be reading the
newest, busiest publication andI don't know I love talking back
into the canon white teeth
Jason Blitman (19:40):
Classics has new books coming out every season
all the time.
So it's new
Mattea Roach (19:45):
Yeah.
But new additions.
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (19:47):
and new editions of
Mattea Roach (19:48):
Have you had any big penguin classics discoveries
lately?
Anything exciting for you?
Jason Blitman (19:53):
Oh gosh.
No.
But I did have a fantasticconversation with the VP and
editor of Penguin Classics, andso I learned a lot about that
process and inspired me.
It was after that conversationthat inspired me to go purchase
Moby Dick.
Mattea Roach (20:12):
Okay.
Yeah.
That's Wow.
Impactful.
They're good at their job,
Jason Blitman (20:16):
the discovery was I needed to get more into my
classics.
Yeah.
Mattea Roach (20:20):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (20:22):
were about to say, you were talking about
Zadie Smith.
Mattea Roach (20:24):
oh, Z Smith.
Just I don't know if you're intothe sort of like
multi-generational family, epicWhite Teeth does that, it is a
book that took me a while to getinto.
I will say I couldn't.
Really see where it was goingfor maybe the first a hundred
pages of 540 or whatever, But itended in a way that was entirely
satisfying.
(20:44):
And I think, I don't know, I'mvery much of the opinion that
readers should want to challengethemselves.
I know that sometimes you wantto beach read and that's fair
play.
However, I did just describewhen I went on vacation earlier
in the spring, I brought JamesJoyce with me to the beach.
In the car when I was likedriving around in Morocco on my
(21:04):
little spring vacation.
So I have perhaps some bustedideas about what's relaxing, but
I do think that there's value inreally challenging yourself and,
I don't know, like using yourleisure time in a way that like
elevates as opposed to just Idon't know, pacifies, I can
watch selling sunset.
I don't wanna read the sellingsunset of books in my spare
(21:26):
time,
Jason Blitman (21:27):
I feel you.
I, my favorite kind of book Irefer to as accessibly literary.
Mattea Roach (21:35):
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (21:36):
So it is quote unquote easy to read, but it is
meaningful
Mattea Roach (21:41):
Yeah,
Jason Blitman (21:42):
really get something out of it.
Mattea Roach (21:44):
for sure.
Yeah, I think that there'scertainly are some authors that
maybe try to be dense for thesake of being dense or.
Know that they're playing to anarrow audience, and maybe it's
not for everybody, but therecertainly are also many literary
authors working that arefrankly, easy to read.
What, do you have an author inmind that exemplifies that
accessible literary for you?
(22:05):
I'm curious.
I
Jason Blitman (22:06):
So the first person that always comes to mind
is Dolly Alderton.
Mattea Roach (22:13):
Okay.
Jason Blitman (22:13):
Because I find ghosts to be so deceptively.
Meaningful, and I don't wannacall it literary'cause I think
some people would come for me,but there is a literary element
within something that peoplewould assume was fluff.
Mattea Roach (22:31):
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (22:31):
that it's oh, this was an easy book to read,
but I took so much from it.
I was moved, it was meaningful.
And it's well written right atthe sentence level.
That's just like an example.
Mattea Roach (22:45):
Yeah, no, there's plenty of names that you can
shut out.
Like I would say for me, I wouldconsider less so the most
recent, Sally Rooney.
But Sally Rooney to me issomebody that's incredibly easy
to read.
Very clean prose,
Jason Blitman (22:59):
Yeah.
Mattea Roach (23:00):
the books also do have something
Jason Blitman (23:01):
a great way to put it.
Yeah.
Mattea Roach (23:02):
Yeah.
Like Inter Metzo, which I readright when it came out last
fall, definitely was the mostchallenging, of the novels in
the sense that she's trying todo something more stylistic with
one of the brothers in thatbook.
Kind of having this morefragmented perspective, almost a
bit joyent in the way that she'swriting trying to.
(23:25):
In a style that's reflective ofthe fact that it's a character
who is drinking a lot, who'sdoing a lot of benzos, that was
interesting and different fromanything that she'd done before.
But overall, like she's justeasy to read, very clean
sentences, can't complain aboutthat.
But then when you get into it,it's okay, we are talking about
the housing crisis and genderdynamics in a relationship and
(23:47):
so on.
And there are people that don'tenjoy Sally Ru think it's a bit
too.
Thinky white people go tocollege and talk about their
Jason Blitman (23:56):
because she doesn't use quotation marks.
If she used quotation marks forher dialogue, people wouldn't
think that.
I don't
Mattea Roach (24:01):
Really I see it.
It never even once occurred tome any, I've read all four of
the novels.
Never once did it occur to methat it was a problem, that
there were no quotation marksdid not
Jason Blitman (24:11):
I am not saying it's a problem.
I'm
Mattea Roach (24:13):
No.
I know people have really strongfeelings in good.
You'll read the Good Readsreviews.
Sometimes I sometimes.
And I shouldn't do this, butsometimes after I read a book, I
do go to Good Reads or StoryGraph, is actually the app that
I use more frequently to seewhat are the people saying.
Jason Blitman (24:30):
yes, it's good to know.
Mattea Roach (24:31):
Sometimes I'm quite baffled by what I find.
I'm like, oh that's how youjudge your experience of a book.
Interesting.
All right.
Jason Blitman (24:37):
It's, there is something so funny about being
an artist in general and how.
An audience is what really putsthe finishing touch on the art.
There is my, I don't wanna saymy favorite.
One of my favorite children'sbooks is called After the Fall
by the author Dan Sanat, and itis this beautiful book about
(25:02):
what happens after Humpty Dumptyfalls
Mattea Roach (25:05):
Oh.
Jason Blitman (25:07):
It's this story of this egg who is obsessed with
planes and flying, and the skyand the ending made me cry and
is beautiful, but was completelymisinterpreted by some readers.
(25:27):
And the reviews are people goingcrazy about the ending in a
negative way.
And I'm like, oh, you literallydidn't get it.
So there's sometimes where I'mlike, oh, you didn't get the art
that you consumed and you wish,and there was unfortunately no
way to engage with that, to say,wait a minute, you got it wrong.
Mattea Roach (25:47):
No.
And I don't subscribe to thebelief that there's a one single
correct way to interpret anygiven book.
I think that.
People can take away a lot ofdifferent things from books.
However, I do sometimes readthings and think there may not
be one right way, but perhapsthere are wrong ways in the
sense of, I just don't totallyknow, A plus B does not equal CI
(26:09):
remember reading after reading,crying in H Mark by Michelle's
Honor which is a grief memoir,Tough genre to write in.
I've, I generally do enjoyreading them.
I find them.
Cathartic to read.
I think that if you're somebodywho's going through a grieving
process, I found them to be likevery helpful
Jason Blitman (26:28):
it.
Got it.
I thought you just meant like ona Tuesday,
Mattea Roach (26:30):
no.
Like I went
Jason Blitman (26:31):
like, let me feel better about
Mattea Roach (26:32):
a period like two summers ago where I was reading
like a couple of them in a rowread crying and h smartt, which
I had purchased like agesbefore, and it had just been
sitting on the shelf and then itwas the right time.
Really liked it.
And then.
Went to Good Read's story graphand then saw these reviews that
were just people complainingabout she is so selfish.
She talks about herself so much.
(26:53):
And I was like, it's a memoir.
And also I think like she'sself-aware about some of her
feelings, maybe not being, she'snot the proudest of all of them.
Jason Blitman (27:04):
You can't have a memoir without me.
Mattea Roach (27:06):
yeah have you never had True, you really can't
have a memoir without
Jason Blitman (27:10):
You need me,
Mattea Roach (27:11):
Yeah.
Hello.
It's me.
Hi.
It's me.
You're all in danger.
Crazy girl.
Shit.
Gonna go spring breakers.
Jason Blitman (27:18):
Well.
You saying that thing about theit being the right time is So I
think for me, I think is soimportant when it comes to
reading in general.
And for us, unfortunately, we'renot always able to read a book
at the right time.
'cause for us the right time is.
Within the right amount of timeto interview an author.
But I started, I picked upcrying in H Mart, read a chapter
(27:41):
and was like, oh no.
This is not the right time forme because I don't have the
emotional capacity to read thisbook right now.
Mattea Roach (27:47):
Yeah, to No, totally.
My version of that is like I hadto stop watching succession
halfway through successionseason four because my dad died
while it was airing.
And season four famously isentirely Logan Roy died.
So I was like, you know what?
Okay, let's let's not watch thatright now.
I got enough of that at homecrying in H Mart.
However, I was like, this isgoing to be helpful because it's
(28:12):
well tonally big divide betweenthat and succession.
Jason Blitman (28:16):
Sure.
It's also not something everyoneis talking about in the
zeitgeist right now, and therecan be a bit of removal
Mattea Roach (28:21):
That's the thing I was glad to be reading.
Yeah.
Crying in h smartt.
I think it came out in 2021.
It was a weird, like COVIDrelease, the fact that it
managed to blow up in that waydespite, most of the events
being virtual events was quiteimpressive.
And I love Michelle's honor.
Like I love Japanese breakfast,as a band.
(28:42):
Had been a fan of theirs for along time.
Yeah, it was interesting to readit after the hype had died down,
after all the, good and bad,good reads, reviews had fallen.
Yeah, but back to what we'rereading now, I don't know.
Jason Blitman (28:55):
that, you had said something earlier about
reading about Zay Smith and you
Mattea Roach (28:59):
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (29:00):
People talk all the time about DN Fing books and
how many pages do you give abook?
You said you gave it a hundredpages, or once you hit about a
hundred pages, that's when youwere in it.
And what I find so interestingabout that is the ratio, you
said a hundred of 540 pages.
And for me, I think people don'talways give enough grace to the
(29:21):
port.
The proportion of the book thatyou're getting through,
Mattea Roach (29:25):
Yeah, I think for me, I really try to, not DNF
stuff, I will say I try to justbe discerning with what I'm
picking up in the first place sothat I'm not gonna dnf.
Jason Blitman (29:39):
the same.
Mattea Roach (29:40):
And I think the more you read, the better you
get at getting a read on yourown taste.
Whether or not you're gonna likesomething.
Obviously sometimes for work.
I will say I've been reallylucky with the producers that I
work with at CBC, the authorsthat we've had on the show.
There really hasn't beenanything that I've had on where
I felt, oh, like I do not feelgood recommending this author to
(30:01):
somebody.
Like even the books that I maybewould not have picked up of my
own accord, I could usuallypicture somebody in my mind that
I would feel comfortablerecommending this book to you
of, Hey, you know what?
This isn't maybe my thing, butthis person really loves
speculative fiction.
I I don't know why I picked thatas a genre.
'cause I'm okay with speculativetoo.
(30:22):
Just as an example,
Jason Blitman (30:23):
I ty, I try to, I don't often say I don't like a
book, or a book was bad.
I will say it was not for mebecause I, it was for someone,
obviously it got published or itwill be for someone else, and I
know someone who I couldrecommend it to, so it will be
for that other person.
But same as you.
I tend to feel that way abouteveryone.
I've had on the show and all the
Mattea Roach (30:43):
Yeah, no.
Short of like structuralproblems.
I think that there, there's adifference between the sort of
literary journalism that we'redoing, where we're doing
interviews, we're doingconversations about books, and
then the job of a critic, right?
Like I think it is important'cause this is one thing that I
do fear is maybe.
Being lost somewhat in theculture of Good reads, reviews
(31:04):
or in film like letterboxreviews, whatever, where any
person can get on the soapboxand say what they think about a
book that they've read, a moviethey've watched album they've
listened to, whatever.
There are some people who seemto think that any criticism.
(31:24):
Is essentially, you're justdogging on somebody or is
hateful.
And I don't think that's true,but I do see it as not my job to
do the work of a critic in myrole as like an interviewer of
authors.
I'm not trying to get somebodyon my show and be like, Hey, I
would like to confront you aboutsome things I didn't care for in
your novel.
Jason Blitman (31:42):
Correct.
Ask me what I think about as myquote unquote job for in, in
terms of in relation to theshow.
If I'm not a critic and I am andbeyond interviewer what is my
role here?
And I will say, I feel like myjob is to get you to fall in
love with this author, becauseif you fall in love with them,
then you can fall in love withtheir content or whatever.
(32:04):
Because for me it's about theartist and not the art
necessarily.
Mattea Roach (32:07):
Yeah.
That's exactly it, right?
Like I think sometimes.
Th authors can have amazingideas that don't always
translate into a book that isequally as amazing as the
thoughts behind them, if thatmakes sense.
Or there might be some reallylike interesting background
research that an author did towrite a novel that you're not
(32:28):
going to learn about justthrough reading the book.
But if you interview the author,talk to'em about it, listen to
that interview back, you mightlearn something.
Additional or, find somethingout about what compelled them to
dive into, say if it's ahistorical fiction, like a
particular period.
So yeah, there's definitelyvalue, I think in reading things
that are not totally your cup oftea.
I will say one thing that I'vereally enjoyed about my job and
(32:51):
about having a team around methat's quite diverse in terms of
their reading taste is that Ihave been pushed to read things
that I would ordinarily not evenconsider picking up and have
been forced to challenge somenotions about what my taste is
as a reader.
Jason Blitman (33:07):
Is there something that comes to mind
that you were pushed to readthat you ended up falling in
love with?
Mattea Roach (33:14):
Yeah.
So I will say I am a famousromance novel hater, romance
movie hater.
Like I don't generally like it.
Obviously so many books aredriven by romance, right?
But the genre of romance novelwhen you go to the store, and
that's the section that is not asection you're gonna find me in.
(33:35):
Just because I struggle with thekind of like happy ending
pursuit of the happy ending.
Pursuit of, what am I reading abook to feel good?
I'm thinking of the arresteddevelopment quote where they're
talking about the alternativeschool that maybe goes to, it's
oh, what you're sending her toone of those new age feel
goodies.
That's sometimes how I feel whenpeople are talking about needing
(33:56):
to escape into a romance novel.
It's just not.
Something that I crave, and Ithink for a while I was ignorant
to the like vast gradations inlike quality within the romance
genre, right?
Because some of it is likepulpy, schlocky stuff.
Some of it is done with a realsense of craft and the sentences
(34:17):
are good and there'sinteresting, perhaps allusions
to other things, and you canreally respect that.
You know what, if this personwanted to write a more literary
novel, they could, but they wantto write romance, and so that's
what they're doing.
So I really got into the pairingby Casey McQuiston.
That was one of the earlyinterviews that we did for
bookends.
And I was like actively annoyedat how much I was enjoying it
(34:39):
while reading it.
I was like, shit.
Like I got a, I felt like I wasbecoming uncool somehow for
enjoying it because I had
Jason Blitman (34:47):
so interesting 'cause of the stigma that
reading, quote unquote romancehas.
Mattea Roach (34:51):
Yeah, and I think it is a little bit of a it's a,
very like feminized genre,right?
It's overwhelmingly a genre thatis written by women, read by
women.
And so Casey McQuiston isactually like an interesting
figure to talk to in the romancegenre because they're writing
(35:13):
queer romance and are coming atit from this sort of genderqueer
or non-binary perspective.
And they've written, gay guys,they've written lesbians,
they've written this kind ofbisexual romance with a
character who's navigatinggender with the pairing.
And I think basically I wasreading it and I was like, okay,
(35:34):
you got me gal.
Like fine, like I'll admit it.
You.
You did a good job.
The book's good.
Okay.
And they were just such a greatcon, like I could have talked to
'em all day long.
I think we had a ton of stuff incommon and just
Jason Blitman (35:49):
So
Mattea Roach (35:49):
Came to very different reading habits out of
those things in common, whichwas so fascinating.
Jason Blitman (35:53):
I don't mean to be like a therapist about this
because I have my own answertoo.
How did that make you feel?
How did reading something thatyou like were digging your heels
in and you didn't think you weregonna like it, you didn't even
want to like it, but then youwere like, okay, I liked it.
Mattea Roach (36:08):
The, these are very, the, I think I probably
did actually bring this up justin passing in therapy at the
time of just this is weird.
It was a lot on the go.
I I think it made me reallycheck in about do I have an
aversion to joy?
Do I just really hate beinghappy?
Jason Blitman (36:27):
Oh, that's so interesting.
Mattea Roach (36:29):
'Cause even earlier in our conversation I
mentioned I think, when you'redoing your reading for leisure,
it should be like work, which isa very Catholic attitude to have
towards your leisure time.
And I would say that I have likea.
You can, I call it Catholic'cause that's my religious
tradition that I was brought upin.
Others might call it if theywere brought up Protestant, the
Protestant work ethic.
I have this idea that we shouldbe trying to improve ourselves
(36:51):
to some extent through ourleisure pursuits.
And so I thought like romance isthis sort of fluffy thing that
you are turning to, to escapeand it's not necessarily
weighty.
Two things that I learnedthrough reading the pairing.
One is that was a book that didhave some heft to it in terms
of, you have characters that aredealing with, like navigating
(37:13):
gender identity, dealing withgrief in that book.
Like one of the characters wasdealing with loss of a parent
and how that affected theirability to be in a relationship.
Like dealing with.
Being a young person, trying tofigure out your career and
distinguish yourself as perhapsseparate from a family that has
a bit of a family business.
Like one of the characters inthat book that's like all of the
other people in their familywork in the film industry these
(37:36):
are like real subjects that I'm,I am in the demographic that
book was written for.
So it, shouldn't be shocking tome that I did end up enjoying
it, but I think I also developedan appreciation for, what.
Maybe it is okay that somepeople, when they're having a
hard time do just want to pullthe escape hatch and go to
(37:56):
another world and not thinkabout their problems as opposed
to me, where I'm like, let methink about my problems even
more.
Let me watch or read or listento art that makes me think about
my problems.
Jason Blitman (38:08):
There is something though to be said that
even, the world of James Joyceis not exactly your world.
So there is an escape element.
Even still I feel like I'mconstantly challenged to just
reexamine.
What I'm, what I think my owntaste is.
I had zero interest in any EmilySt.
(38:29):
John Mendel books.
It was any book with, any sortof space.
Something on the cover is notfor me.
I assumed I saw that oneverybody's end of year list.
What, three or four years ago,whenever it was Sea of
Tranquility.
And I was like all of thesereaders who I trust, this book
is one of their top 10 favoritebooks.
So let me just read it.
(38:49):
And I read it in like Novemberand sure enough, it was one of
my favorite books of the year.
And then I, read station 11 andfell in love and was like, okay,
let me challenge I love a good
Mattea Roach (39:00):
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (39:01):
And maybe it's okay that it's a genre that
doesn't
Mattea Roach (39:04):
It's so funny that you should say that because I
also have beef with the conceptof space in that I just am not
that interested in it.
But
Jason Blitman (39:13):
of, do you not believe that it exists?
Mattea Roach (39:15):
I, no, look don't try to get me like that.
No, of course.
I believe it exists.
It's just I struggle toconceptualize it.
And I feel like there's so muchon the go on earth.
That I can't even fathom beingthat worried about what's going
on in space.
Jason Blitman (39:29):
real, I feel you.
Mattea Roach (39:30):
And I think just also if we were living in a time
where space exploration was amore, I don't know, felt like a
nobler pursuit.
If it was the sixties and I wasreally rah, it's the Cold War.
Are the Americans gonna get tothe moon?
Isn't the progress of manamazing?
Like I can see that in thatcontext.
(39:51):
I might.
Be really impressed at just likewhat humans are able to achieve
currently.
The vibes that I get from a lotof this, blue Origin Virgin
let's send Katy Perry and GayleKing to space for some reason I
don't particularly care for it.
So it's funny to me that what'syour beef with space?
That's what I'm curious aboutnow.
Jason Blitman (40:09):
I think it's less space and more like that just
that shows science fiction.
It shows some sort offantastical component and I
don't mind, I.
A fantasy element in somethingthat's a bit more grounded
generally speaking.
Mattea Roach (40:25):
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (40:27):
So it surprised me that I was as engaged as I
was.
Mattea Roach (40:32):
Yeah.
And did you read Sea Tranquilityand then go back and read
Station 11?
Jason Blitman (40:38):
I did.
Mattea Roach (40:38):
Okay.
Interesting.
Yeah.
'cause I, so I read Station 11for Canda Res, which is the
panel show that the CBC does.
So before I was working for CBCbooks and hosting bookends.
My part of my way into this jobis that I was cast as a panelist
on Canda Reeds, which is thisdebate show that they run every
spring and it's this battle ofthe books where they'll get
(41:00):
five.
I'm doing air quotes for thelisteners.
Celebrity panelists.
Who I I do not consider myself acelebrity.
I think, no, I would prefer tonot be one.
People that are known toCanadians sometimes like
athletes tv, homegrown TV starsoccasionally like retired
politicians.
(41:22):
Like we had a, we had a booktalker on my year, which was
cool.
Anyway.
Five people, they each pick abook and then they defend it and
say this is the book all ofCanada should read this year.
And then every day for a week,like each a book gets voted off
and then there's like a winnerand so on, so forth.
So it's this huge driver of booksales in Canada.
(41:42):
It's wild, like you look at thebestseller lists every year and
the books that end up gettingchosen for this program are
often amongst the top sellingtitles.
So it has real impact.
And yeah, I'm, I'm now, I'm justboosting like other work that
happens that my coworkers do.
But I was a panelist on the showbefore I ever worked at CBC
books, and the year that I wason Station 11 was one of the
(42:06):
books in the competition.
And so I had to read it in thatcontext, which is a very strange
context in which to read a bookbecause I was reading it and
really liked it.
But it was not my selection.
Yeah, no, it was not myselection as the book that all
of Canada should read.
I was defending Ducks by KateBeaton and so I basically had to
be like, my book can beat upyour book.
(42:27):
And in
Jason Blitman (42:27):
Technically Dux is
Mattea Roach (42:29):
it was physically
Jason Blitman (42:30):
Right?
Mattea Roach (42:30):
I made that exact same joke at the time.
I was like, physically this isby far the largest book, so it's
gonna win.
And you know what?
I did win.
It was a sleigh station.
11 was in the final.
It was a really, like you.
Jason Blitman (42:41):
Yes.
Good contender.
Mattea Roach (42:43):
Yeah.
Strong contender Michael Grey,the actor who's been in, what
has he been in?
Ah, my god.
Jason Blitman (42:52):
It's okay.
We'll
Mattea Roach (42:53):
Rutherford Falls.
That's the show that was in theUS that he's been in that people
might know.
Rutherford Falls was MichaelGrey's credit that I was trying
to think of.
Anyway just amazing, reallythoughtful, had amazing stuff to
say about Station 11.
And I was like, I do not enjoythat.
I have to claim that my book ismore important.
Jason Blitman (43:12):
Yeah,
Mattea Roach (43:12):
crazy, but it gets the people reading.
So I read station 11 first, thenwent to Sea of Tranquility, is
what this is all to say.
And I think that going in thatorder maybe makes the later
Emily St.
John Mandel make a bit moresense.
Jason Blitman (43:25):
Yeah.
Mattea Roach (43:25):
don't know if you felt that going backwards.
Jason Blitman (43:28):
So I had, my experience was also very
different because I read Station11 during a pandemic.
Mattea Roach (43:35):
Oh my God.
Jason Blitman (43:37):
So talk about a weird time to read that book.
So yeah, that in and of itselfwas its own We're like, I'm
taking up so much of your time.
Are there other things that youwanna rattle off before we let
you go?
'cause I like need what is onyour list?
We, the people are gonna.
Mattea Roach (43:53):
my God.
The people.
What
Jason Blitman (43:54):
Eat it up.
Mattea Roach (43:55):
Oh, this is, yeah.
See this is terrible.
'cause I'm such like ameandering talker that I, you
could just let me rattle thingsoff for hours and I
Jason Blitman (44:03):
Me too.
I just posted a video todayabout Kora four and I talking
about chocolate,
Mattea Roach (44:09):
Oh my goodness.
Jason Blitman (44:09):
was like, how did they end up talking about
chocolate?
Mattea Roach (44:12):
Yeah, all you wanna talk about a book that I
probably would not have readwere it not for my job, death of
the author, NAIA Kor.
Jason Blitman (44:20):
Loved.
Mattea Roach (44:21):
I was really surprised by how much I liked
it.
I was like, you know what?
Jason Blitman (44:24):
me too.
Mattea Roach (44:25):
you.
I believe my producer, Ryan B.
Patrick, shout out was whobrought that to my desk and
yeah, what an amazing catalog ofwork she has.
Jason Blitman (44:36):
Yeah.
Mattea Roach (44:36):
And again, also somebody that just as like a
thinker as somebody who existsin the culture has so much to
say outside of her novels.
Yeah.
But yeah, no, and alsodefinitely
Jason Blitman (44:47):
hear more.
Mattea Roach (44:48):
rambling talker.
Yeah.
Like I, I'm, I think that wealso had a pretty meandering
conversation that again, I'm notthe editor of my show, so I
didn't have to deal with makingthat fit in the 54 minutes of a
radio broadcast.
Yeah,
Jason Blitman (45:01):
and mine is not a radio
Mattea Roach (45:02):
that,
Jason Blitman (45:02):
go on as long as we want.
Mattea Roach (45:04):
that is the beauty of podcasting.
I don't know.
I love terrestrial radio.
I have a real love of bothforms, right?
Like I'm young enough that I'vecome of age with podcasts.
Like I remember when Serial cameout and it was such a big deal.
I remember when Welcome toNightvale launched, like those
were the things I was listeningto in high school.
(45:25):
I've always been a big.
A podcast listener for news.
Like it's a big part of my mediadiet, but I also have this like
real love of just basicterrestrial radio.
The idea that you'reparticipating in a communal
activity and you're listening atthe same time as people.
I'm not a fan of Colin shows perse, like I'll listen to, for
instance, the live stream of theBBC's alternative music station,
(45:47):
BBC six, and they'll have peopletexting in to say, what they're
doing while they're listeningsometimes.
And that's just makes you feelless isolated.
You're speaking about readingstation 11 during COVID, like
listening to the radio duringCOVID and being part of a sort
of communal media consumptionexperience is something that I
found very powerful.
But yeah, the problem withradio, you gotta fit it in an
(46:09):
hour.
Jason Blitman (46:11):
Right.
Mattea Roach (46:11):
So you might have a really amazing conversation
with someone and it might justbe too long and you don't get to
put all of that on the radio,but.
We might get to put that in thepodcast.
I don't know.
So that's a fun bit of my jobthat I don't have to put my
Jason Blitman (46:24):
Don't have to worry
Mattea Roach (46:25):
Yeah, exactly.
I don't know what's a good codato leave this on in terms of
what am I reading?
Jason Blitman (46:31):
you, you are the, you have the list in front of
you,
Mattea Roach (46:33):
I have the list in front of me.
My grand finale, I would say.
The thing that I'm like next,most excited to pick up
Jason Blitman (46:42):
That's a great way to
Mattea Roach (46:43):
is something that's in a box in my house.
'cause I moved recently and Igotta dig around to find it.
But I have been reading a bookthat is not yet released letters
to Milina, which is by ChristinaSteamer, and it's based on.
Milina Senka, who I might bebutchering the pronunciation of
(47:03):
her name a little bit, who was ajournalist translator and really
like Freedom Fighter living ininitially Austria Hungary and
then Czechoslovakia in the earlypart of the 20th century.
And she was a lover of FranzKafka and she was also a
translator of some of his workfrom German into Czech.
(47:24):
And so this is a novel that'sfrom her perspective and like
details.
Her love affair with him andtheir working relationship.
And there's actual, like realexcerpts from his letters to
her, which exist in archivesthat are incorporated into the
book.
And so the premise is like herletters to him actually been
lost.
She died and I think it wasBuchenwald concentration camp.
(47:46):
During the Second World War aslike a political prisoner.
And so many of lots of documentsrelating to her work, have been
lost.
We don't have them.
And so this is this return toher work and thinking about what
her role was as this femalejournalist who was resisting
Nazism at a time that hercountry was occupied.
And was also having, a reallyroaring twenties hooking up with
(48:08):
France Kafka apparently.
Anyway, what I'm looking aroundfor in my house is, now that
I've read that book I would liketo return to some Kafka stories,
and I have this like Kafkareader.
That I got for free when I wasvisiting a friend of mine who
was doing his masters at Oxfordlast year, there was this like
big campaign going on at thetime around the centennial of
(48:31):
Kafka's death.
And there were just like freecopies of this reader
everywhere.
And I took one'cause my friendthat I was visiting was like, I
don't want one.
And I'm a student, I'm allowedto take it.
So why don't you just grab it?
You like this guy.
So I'm ready to whip out themetamorphosis with some special.
New material.
(48:51):
I forget exactly what the newmaterial is.
That's in that Oxford edition,but I'm gonna find out once I
yeah.
Once I dig it out of whateverbox it's in, in my house.
Jason Blitman (49:01):
For some simple casual summer poolside, reading
Mattea Roach (49:05):
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (49:06):
Kafka by the Kafka, by the shore.
Mattea Roach (49:08):
Kafka by the, literally Kafka by the shore.
Yeah.
Kafka on the porch.
Kafka by the pool.
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (49:16):
That could be like a whole Instagram
Mattea Roach (49:18):
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (49:19):
you're reading Kafka.
Mattea Roach (49:20):
Where I'm read, I do love to drop a little.
If I'm on vacation somewhere andI'm reading in a nice location,
I do love to drop a little.
I'm at the beach and here's mytitle.
I actually did get so much sandin my copy of letters to me over
the weekend because I did takeit to the beach.
Thankfully.
Jason Blitman (49:39):
World War II be treated.
Mattea Roach (49:41):
Yeah, no.
Yeah, I, yeah, no I had toactually shake sand out of the
book when I got back from thebeach.
It was not good.
But you know what books aremeant to be read, engaged with
and loved?
I am, I may be a collector.
I've got a lot of stacks ofthings sitting around my house
and in my office, but these areitems that I'm using.
I don't need everything to becompletely pristine.
(50:02):
I don't know,
Jason Blitman (50:04):
No, I agree.
Mattea Roach (50:04):
Spill coffee.
I don't know.
Jason Blitman (50:06):
I don't dog ear, but I write in books.
I do.
I tab books, but I can't, Istill can't dog
Mattea Roach (50:13):
I don't dog ear either.
I only recently got into writingin books for a long time.
I was not a writer in books.
And then a good friend of mine,actually, they made this stamp
for themself, like they have ahuge library books.
They made this stamp that waslike, please write, comment on
scribble in the margins of.
(50:33):
This book, I'm butchering thewording.
But they put this stamp in allof their books and when they
lend books out to people, theyare very clear.
Oh, if you have thoughts andwanna write these in the
margins, like you can write inmy book, I don't mind.
And that was really cool.
It feels like having aconversation.
And so sometimes now with booksthat I am reading for work, I
(50:55):
will write in the margins
Jason Blitman (50:57):
it's typically
Mattea Roach (50:58):
to tell myself a little joke sometimes.
Jason Blitman (51:00):
a joke.
I'll ask myself questions.
I'll ask questions of the
Mattea Roach (51:03):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or if if something has reallyupset me, I might write some
question marks.
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (51:09):
Mateo Roach, thank you so much for being
here.
Mattea Roach (51:11):
thank you for having me.
This has been so fun.
And again, I feel like we couldhave been one of those Joe Rogan
esque, like three and a halfhour long podcasts.
But
Jason Blitman (51:21):
we'll just have to do this again.
Mattea Roach (51:22):
We'll just have to, we'll just have to get on
the live stream do some moreshenanigans.
But yeah.
Thank you so much and great tobe podcast cousins with you.
Jason Blitman (51:30):
I love the, I love our.
Family tree.
Everyone go check out MateoRoach and their show bookends,
the CBC's Literary podcast.
It is wherever you get yourpodcast, but of course it's only
54 minutes because it's also onthe radio,
Mattea Roach (51:44):
Sometimes extended cuts.
Sometimes extended cuts.
Jason Blitman (51:47):
cuts.
Go check out bookends, followgaze reading on Instagram,
wherever you get your podcast.
Thank you Matea, for being here.
Thank you everyone for beinghere.
Have a great rest of your day.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.