Dylin Hardcastle (A Language of Limbs) feat. Benedict Nguyễn, Guest Gay Reader

Episode Transcript
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(00:04):
Gaze reading where the greatsdrop by trendy authors.
Tell us all the who, what andwhy.
Anyone can listen Comes we arespoiler free.
Reading from stars to book clubpicks we're the curious minds
can get their picks.
Say you're not gay.

(00:24):
Well that's okay there somethingeveryone.
Hello and welcome to Gay'sReading.
I'm your host Jason Blitman.
And on today's episode I talk toDylan Hardcastle about their
book, A Language of Limbs.

(00:45):
And today's guest, gay reader isBenedict Win, uh, and her book,
hot Girls with Balls.
Both books are out now and bothof their bios are in the show
notes.
it has been a week y'all.
With so many Supreme Courtrulings, it has really put a
damper on the end of pride.
And I've been filled with rageand frustration and

(01:07):
disappointment, and I am surethat I am preaching to the choir
when I say all of that and allafter a really pretty solid
pride.
Um, but of course, when you'regay, every day is pride.
Every month is pride.
So.
Yeah, I, I've been sort of onthe struggle bus with, uh, how

(01:29):
to feel and what to do.
The what to do part I think isreally what's getting to me.
So I wrote some reflectionsabout this month, over on the
gays reading Substack, if youwanna check that out.
and I've just been thinking alot about ways to support the
lgbtqia plus authors.
Sort of in general and it'sself-promote, but I am really

(01:52):
proud of the fact that this bookclub with Stoa is really going
to exclusively feature LGBTQIAplus authors.
And the percentage of profitsthat those authors take is so
much higher than from otherstores.
And so I guess that is onereally great way to support
writers and you know, you sortof get something out of it too.

(02:15):
if you haven't looked into ityet, you could learn more about
it in the show notes and in thelynch tree on Instagram.
But this month's selection isdisappoint me by Nicola Dine.
Uh, she was a guest gay reader acouple weeks ago, and when you
sign up, you get a membership toAltoa, which also means that you
get books at wholesale pricesand you join the group chats for

(02:36):
the club.
And Altoa donates a kid's bookto LGBTQIA plus youth, which
obviously.
We need now more than ever.
So it does feel like a reallygreat way to support and
subsequently you're supportinggay's reading and it's all just
sort of really great and reallycool and it's gonna be fun.
And I hope you could join us andamplify and support these

(03:00):
authors at the same time.
The link is in the show notesand in the Instagram bio.
We are at Gays reading onInstagram.
If you have not followed yet,uh, you could follow us over
there like and subscribewherever you get your podcast.
And if you have it in you toleave a five star review, it is
certainly greatly appreciatedand I hope you all had a great

(03:21):
pride as best as you possiblycould have.
And now please enjoy myconversations with Dylan
Hardcastle and Benedict Winn.

Jason Blitman (03:31):
A Language of Limbs by Dylan Hardcastle.
Congratulations.

Dylin Hardcastle (03:35):
you so much.
I'm very excited.

Me too.
we're spoiler free on gaysreadings, so I'm not gonna talk
about spoilers, but the endingof this book is gonna stay with
me for a long time.

Oh, that's so cool to hear.
I actually, I'm really proud ofthe ending and funnily enough,
there was a couple of timeswhere I was, it was like the one
part of the book that I alwayscried in when I was writing or
editing it.
And it was so funny'cause Iremember I was living in this
all trans house called Sabrinawhile I was writing, or while I
was editing the final draft.
And I remember one of myhousemates walked in and saw me

(04:07):
crying and was like, are youserious?
Like you can't be crying at yourown book.
I was like, it's.

Of course it's moving and I imagine, you were
revisiting it after some time.
Right.
And these people are real toyou.
They're in your heart.

Yeah, absolutely.
It's always like that.
I think ending a book andparting with these people that
you've been with for so long.

There's one author in particular who I've
talked to who has a whole ritualfor sending the book off into
the world.
She'll go.
Literally light a candle and putflowers in the water and let it
send it off into the universe tosay goodbye to these people and
then move on.
I love it.

love that.
I'm just crying to my laptop.

I think that's very sweet.
For the listeners, what is theelevator pitch for your book?

Uh, So a language of limbs is structured
between limb one and limb two,like a limb of your body in
these sort of alternatingchapters and in limb.
One story, a 15-year-old unnamedgirl is caught kissing her
neighbor in Newcastle, which isa city just north of Sydney.
In Australia in 1972 when she'skicked out of home.
And then on the same night in1972, also in Newcastle, another

(05:20):
15-year-old girl is wakes upfrom a sex dream she's had about
her best friend that's having asleepover.
And she just turns the light on,looks at her friend, asleep on
the floor, and turns the lightup and goes back to sleep.
And we essentially follow thesetwo unnamed protagonists over
the next 30 years through thealmost intersections of their
lives.
And you.
Do read the book.
Not entirely sure if they're twoversions of one life in a sort

(05:43):
of sliding door scenario, or ifthey are in fact different
people, which is, yeah, I guessnot revealed until the very end.

It's so funny that you're on today's episode
of Gay's Reading because nextweek I'm talking to Ruben Reyes
Jr.
About his new book archive ofUnknown Universes, and it is
very much a alternate universesliding doors.
Type, are we in two differentworlds?
What happens if decisions aremade?
Sort of story.

(06:08):
So it's a, it's a very uh,theme.
This a big theme this summer.

That's so cool to yeah, it feels very, I don't
know.
I don't know what the right wordis.
Serendipitous or

Yeah.
I would agree.
And very, and yet very differentbooks.
Okay.
This is gonna be, this is maybea traumatic question, and so
feel free to say.
Shut up Jason.
I'm moving on.
But since one of ourprotagonists, their story sort
of kicks off because they werecaught.
Were you ever caught?

(06:37):
I, it made me think of a timewhen I was walked in on, and I
had some feelings.

No, I, if I ever was, I've blocked it out of
my

Oh, good

I'm kind of like, I wouldn't be surprised.
I definitely have been caughtmasturbating before as a
teenager, but no, not as far asI know.
I didn't get caught with anyoneelse.

I feel like we all, that's like teenage trauma.
It's a rite of passage, right?

Truly,

The, like the quick closing of the computer or
the quick, like throwing theblanket over you.

truly.

Oh my God.
I'm like dusting up traumainside of me as we speak.

Yeah.
You're like, I wish I didn't askthat

I know suddenly I'm like, oh God.
I also, I bring up therapy somuch on gay's reading.
Thank God I have therapytomorrow morning.
Things to talk about.
So obviously I say obviously,but it's because the title has
the word limbs in it is why Isay obviously.
But limbs are a motif reallythroughout the book.

(07:39):
Can you talk a little bit aboutwhat.
This is such a silly question,but what limbs mean to you and
like where that comes from,where the title comes from?
The title comes up in the book,so we don't necessarily have to
give it away per se, but maybetheoretically.

Yeah, so I first came up with the idea for
this book actually in 2017, likequite a while ago, and I was
walking through Sydney CBD atnight listening to music and I
was walking to a gig and it'slike one of my favorite times to
come up with ideas is like,yeah, sort of meandering through
a city at night.
And I.
Was thinking about how my friendand I had been joking at the

(08:15):
time how almost kissing issometimes hotter than actually
kissing.
And I imagined what would itlook like if two lives were
almost kissing, over the courseof a whole lifetime?
And I remember being, I was justbuzzing by the time I got to
where the gig was.
'cause I'd imagined like some ofthe biggest moments, I think in
the book, in the, in this 25minute walk to this gig.

(08:36):
And so got there and was like,blah, blah, blah, like trying to
tell my friends everything Ijust imagined.
And they're like, cool.
We actually just wanna listen tothe music.
But I think in that wake ofthat, like I actually went on to
write another book.
Like I wrote my third book BelowDeck while I was living in the
uk.
And then while I was over thereI went to this exhibition at the
Baran in London and came acrossthe work of Claude Kahan and

(08:56):
Marcel Moore.
And, started thinking aboutthis, like ideas of star cross
lovers and and thinking about alove story, not as beginning
with the like, moment of twopeople meeting, but what would a
love story look like?
Almost if you imagined that, arelationship ends up being the,
like the body and that you havethese two limbs that are moving
or tracking towards the torsowhere these, like two limbs meet

(09:19):
up.
And so I was imagining like,what would it look like if you
started a story.
To carry on with this metaphor,like almost at the fingertips,
you know, and you sort of liketraced along these limbs and
then got to the point wherethese like stories converged and
that Yeah.
Almost like the love story endsat the meeting.
And part of that was becauseClaude Khan and Marcel Moore,
who were this like.
Lesbian couple.

(09:40):
They were lifelong lovers andlifelong artistic collaborators.
Like all the work they evermade, pretty much after they met
was made together.
And they were like profoundlyinfluential in the surrealist
movement, even though theylargely got written out of
archives and anthologies,probably because they were women
and they were queer.
But they, I've.
Just lost my train of thought.

(10:01):
I had to get it back.
Um, Yes.
So Claude was commissioned bythe surrealists I think it was
Paul Ard and Andre Broon asked abunch of the surrealists in the
thirties or twenties, and theybasically said, what is the most
important meeting of your life?
And to what degree did thismeeting come by, either chance
or necessity.
And that question like Claudehad a really interesting answer

(10:23):
and she actually wrote about herparents meeting and that being
the, the beginning of hermaking.
But a lot of the surrealistswrote about the day they met
their lover or.
These various sort of monumentalmoments in her life.
And I remember thinking, I guesswith this idea of limbs of all
the sort of chance encountersthat happen, both by chance and

(10:43):
by necessity for two people tocome together in two stories to
collide and, how often, likewhen I've met someone
significant and then we'veworked out, oh, we were at that
same party and here you are inthe background of this video
that I took or all of the waysin which we like almost collide
before Yeah.
These stories like finally yeah,collide in, in the flesh.

And it's so interesting'cause you talking
about that there's this idea ofbeing present in the moment
physically, but not necessarilymentally or emotionally, you,
your, you could share a spacewith someone.
Your limbs can be in the samespace but your brain and your
heart are not.

totally.
And the thing, I've actuallybeen thinking about that a lot
recently of I guess thinkingabout the sort of, timing of
those collisions where, youknow, I know that these two
stories had they like coalescedany earlier the, they just
wouldn't have in the same waythat they do.
When the timing's right I don'tknow, I'm really, I've been
really sucked into this idearecently of like meeting and

(11:44):
colliding at like the momentwhen you're like able to able to
show up in, in a capacity, thatmeans you really do meet
someone.
And I think.
Actually, like I started teaalmost a year ago now, and the
way that I have been like sopresent in my body where I
almost didn't realize howdissociated I was from myself
until now being like, oh, thisis what it's like to feel an

(12:06):
emotion as it's happening andfeel the texture and oh, this is
the texture of joy when you'relike present as it's like
unfolding inside you.
And it's meant that like I'vejust been able to show up so
fully and that my connectionsnow with other people.
I am just meeting them in sucha, like closer, more ins like a,
yeah, it's more like instant themeeting as opposed to yeah.

(12:28):
Some distant me having distancefrom myself and therefore
distance from them.

Sure.
And I imagine it is, talkingabout time aligning and things
happening at the right moment inin this time where you're
talking about this book in Whata beautiful time for you to be
able to feel present,

Yeah.
Truly it's made the wholeexperience of Yeah.
Touring and being able to talkabout it.
Yeah.
So Rich and yeah, it's beenquite incredible.

Congratulations.
Is that a weird thing to say?
I'm so glad that this is yourexperience right

Yeah.
I don't think it's weird at all.
Thank you.

You brought up Claude Khan.
Khan Cahoon.
K.

Yeah, I'm, to be honest, I'm not entirely
sure.
I have a friend that's Parisianand and he said can't, or Yeah,
but in a French accent, I'mprobably failing it to be
honest.

Yeah.
So you spoke about their storycan there is a, the moment where
Limb one sees Claude Kahn on thescreen, it made their skin dance
and that seeing Claude was anundoing.
When has that happened for you?

Yeah, so when I came across Claude's work at
the Barkin at this, it was thisexhibition on modern couples.
And so there was like Virginiaand Leonard, Virginia and Vita.
Dora mom, Pablo Picasso likeFrito and Diego, and it was
really quite amazing.
'cause for instance, with theDora and Picasso section of the
exhibition, Dora had like frontand center, like in her work,

(14:02):
which has historically beenovershadowed by Picasso.
Was front and center.
And so the way that thisexhibition was structured was
just incredible.
And I, my background's actuallyin visual arts.
Like I was a painter before Idropped out of art school to
start writing books.
And I was obsessed withsurrealism.
And so when I came across Claudeand Marcel's work, they were
doing all of these likeportraits of each other.

(14:23):
And I read the plaque, Baharside their work, introducing
them and.
It actually didn't I don'tremember them being like
gendered.
I don't remember hearing readingany pronouns and I actually
mistook them as gay men'causethey both presented really
massive looked quiteandrogynous.
And so there was this couple andit said in the plaque that there
was surrealists.
And I remember standing therenot only had I had this sort of

(14:44):
experience.
Seeing their portraits and likerecognizing something of myself
in them and having a reallysimilar experience.
I think I then was able to writeabout limb one, having the same
feeling.
And when I was looking at.
Or reading about their work.
I just, I could not believe thatthey were surrealists and this
like art movement that I'd beenso obsessed with.

(15:05):
I was like, how have I neverseen these two people before?
And then when I went to the sortof like gift shop at the end of
the exhibition, Jennifer L.
Shaw, who's this amazing arthistorian, had written a book
like quite recently.
I think it had come out in 2016or 2017, and this was 2019.
And.
I picked up the book and I wasreading it on the way back to

(15:26):
Oxford, which is where I wasliving at the time and on the
train, and I was like, oh myGod.
They were women and they had oneof the they have one of the most
exhilarating love stories Ithink I've ever come across.
And I just devoured this book.
Between on the train?
Yeah.
On the train back from London toOxford and yeah, they met when

(15:46):
they were Lucy and Suzanne, andthey met when they were 14 and
17.
And Lucy's mom had previouslybeen institutionalized for I
guess hysteria, mental illness,whatever it was at the time.
And and it had never come outand not long after the girls
met.
Lucy tried to take her own lifeand her dad took her to see a

(16:07):
psychotherapist.
'cause he was like, oh God,she's, she's ill with the same
thing that her mother had.
And the psychotherapist said,she's not unwell.
She's in love with Suzanne.
I think if you don't let them betogether, she might die.
And so the dad startedchaperoning her around to
Suzanne's house where he metSuzanne's mother, who I believe
was a widower, our widow.

(16:28):
And, they eventually gotmarried, which meant the girls
became stepsisters.
And so they're allowed to livetogether and were allowed to be
affectionate in public.
And it was like fine to assumethat they would, it was a
sisterly affection and they thenlived together for their entire
lives.
And when World War II broke outthey went to the island of
Jersey where Suzanne's familyhad a house to hide out.

(16:51):
And they started making anoffice, like really politically
charged work where they werestealing newspapers because the
island actually got over oroccupied by the Nazis during
World War ii while they werethere.
And they started stealing allthese newspapers and pamphlets
and like.
Rearranging the titles and thetexts.
And then em like distributingthis material back out across

(17:14):
the island, trying to encouragethe soldiers on the island to
dissent against Hitler.
And so they were like creatingall this like really radical,
subversive art.
And at one point the soldiersovertook their house.
'Cause they needed more space tosort of house soldiers.
And so they hid everything inthe attic.
All this really transgressiveart.

(17:35):
And then at one point a soldierwent into the attic and found
it.
And so they got caught and theygot put on trial and they, were
they essentially had to provethat they weren't working for
anyone.
'cause by this point, thesoldiers had been trying for two
years to find out who was makingall this art.
And they got put on trial andthey, in proving that they

(17:55):
weren't working for anyone else,proved that they were guilty and
they got sentenced to six yearshard labor and to be executed.
And clawed actually joked in thecourtroom will we be executed
before or after we do the hardlabor?

Oh my God.

And then they were like in the prison.
And I think it might actuallyhave been on Christmas Day, one
of the guards came and opened upClaude Cell and actually let
Suzanne in and they let themshare a cell.
And because yeah, they'dbefriended some of the guards
who then were, let them share acell.
And then not long before theywere meant to be executed, the
war ended and they walked free.

Yeah,

That was just so incredible.
So that was my Claude and Marcel

yeah.
Which obviously also comes up inthe book.
So that was my introduction tothem.
But there is something that you,I don't wanna say alluded to,
but there's a.
element of their story thatcomes up a lot on gay's reading.
I talk a lot about thedifference between family and
relatives, And it, it can becontroversial.

(18:55):
I don't think you would find itcontroversial, but to some
people it's controversial.
And what's so fascinating aboutthe two of them is that.
They became family and they, orthey became relatives, but they
also were each other's family.
What a unique, I think,experience for them.

Yeah.
I love that.

and the idea of.
Found family comes up so much inthe queer community and
obviously is a huge part of thisbook.
What does that mean to you?
That seems like such a simpleand stupid basic question, but
what does found family mean toyou?
I think we all have a differentexperience with it.

Yeah, I think I think, yeah, found family
feels like the, the kind of Iconcentrated version of what I
imagine that, like how I thinkabout the queer community and
which I very much think of as averb and a doing and not
something that we necessarilysay, and then it like I don't,
it's, it is not a name for me.
It's like a thing that is madeby the ways in which we

(19:57):
participate in community and the

found family specifically?

yeah.
I think found family within thecontext of.
Of I think I, yeah, I'm speakingmaybe more broadly to queer
community and then the foundfamily within that is the the
really material ways in which wecare for in ra like visionary
ways of caring, I think.
And that's, yeah.
'cause it's it's a choice,right?
I think relatives were born intothis and and there's something

(20:22):
about found family and thatfeels.
Deeply expansive or profoundlyexpansive in that, that it is a
choice and that we choose toshow up and choose to care.
Yeah.
In these sort of like radicallyexpansive ways for each other.

Do you have found family or chosen family or as
Armstead Moins as logicalfamily?

Yeah, no, I feel very fortunate to have,
yeah, very beautiful andeclectic found family.
The other, one of the housesthat, that I was editing this
book in was nicknamed Sabrina,after Sabrina and Patch tore.
Because we felt like the houselike had embodied the same
aesthetic as the character thatshe plays in White Lotus of the

(21:04):
sort of repressed.
Closeted lesbian which was yeah.
And it was like such a stylish,but yeah, like bizarre house
that we were living in.
But it's so beautiful andincredible and it was the first
time I'd lived with yeah, alltrans people and there was
something it was like the firsttime I think in my life that I
really.

(21:25):
Felt like home could be thereset that makes like all the
living outside possible wherethis house was like this space
that you would walk into andjust shed all your layers, like
not just like material clothes,but just drop off kind of
everything that had happenedoutside and it, it really

(21:45):
bolstered us in a way that.
Yeah, I think that was what Iwas trying to capture in Uranian
house, which is the, the queershare house in a language of
limbs.
The way that, that we were builtout from the inside and that
this house really did exist as asort of like a calm in the eye
of the storm.
And there was so much joy thathappened in that house, but also
just so much I was like, oh myGod, my system nervous system

(22:06):
can just be so regulated athome.
And I never knew this waspossible.
It was like, and it madeeverything outside feel, yeah,
like it was like, oh, I couldtackle anything because I could,
I've got this like refuge that Ican come home and undress in.

Yeah, that, that is so cool.
And what an incredibleexperience to, at the very
least, feel safe,

Yeah.
No, it was exactly that.

there is though something that comes up in the
book there's a quote, ifeveryone is gay, then no one is.
And so you saying that abouteveryone in the house was trans.
I had this moment of wait aminute, did it almost feel like
it, counterbalanced everythingand you were living in this
world where no one was trans,right?

(22:53):
Do you know what I mean?

that's so true.
And actually like.
Yeah, it was funny'cause then itwould mean that I don't know.
Yeah.
Then I remember going to thisparty during Sydney Fashion Week
around around the time that Iwas living in that house and,
and it was every, everyone waswearing these like very queer
coded outfits, but it was justlike high sort of couture

(23:15):
fashion.
And I was like shocked when ittranspired that people weren't
queer.
Like I was like, get, I waslike, oh, okay.
Oh, I see.
I see what's going on here.

that's so interesting.

I very much think of queerness as like a,
visionary ways of caring as likea politic as like a thing that
we participate in, that we arelike both making and made by
queer culture.
Yeah.
And so I'm like, even now thatI'm, as I'm saying that, I'm
like, what does actually meanfor clothes to be queer coded?

I, there, something else that comes up a
bunch is just the concept ofstereotypes and stereotypes are
stereotypes for a reason.
And so I, if I guess if a wholebunch of straight people are
wearing outfits that look likeone would see on Elton John,

(24:05):
Then there's this weird juxta,weird is, again, not the right
word, but there's thisjuxtaposition between who they
are and how they're presenting.
Anyway, I'm falling down thisimaginary rabbit hole of me just
like picturing these humans.
What was your coming out journeylike?
If you don't mind talking aboutit, that's something that comes

(24:26):
up in the book, which is why Iwas curious.
I,

Yeah.
I, I had quite, a delayed cominginto myself.
And I think like, I've beenthinking about this a lot
recently.
Because basically I Until I was15, wanted to be a pro surfer
was like such a nerd forsurfing.
Like I was like a jock, but inthe sense that I was a nerd for
sport.
Like I was like, don't talk tome.

(24:50):
I'm busy, like practicing

right.
I'm studying the

literally.
And so I, yeah, I was surfinglike at a national level in
Australia.
Like if you had told me at 15that I was gonna be.
An author at 31 and not on thepro circuit, like I would've
been devastated and what areyou, what?
I can't believe it.
But I think until I was 15, Iwas like in a, like surfing in a

(25:17):
at the beach that I grew up nearthat was like, dominant, it was
entirely men in the water.
And it's really interestingbecause.
Basically I, when I was 16, hadmy first psychotic episode and I
spent the next seven years inand out of psychiatric wards.
Was like hospitalized a numberof times and as a result, had

(25:39):
this would disappear for monthsat a time, like in these
institutions and then come outagain and yeah, I think, when I
was 2021.
I hadn't gone for more than sixmonths without having an
episode.
And that meant that, yeah, mylife was like constantly
interrupted by this and it yeah,by, I guess losing my mind in

(25:59):
various ways.
You are already at an age whereyou're on the cusp of figuring
out who you are and then it'scomplicated by not knowing
what's real versus what's not.
And I.
I think as a result, I sort ofhad this really delayed coming
into myself because the majorityof the people that I was coming
into contact with who were queerwere also in hospital.

(26:22):
And so I had these like reallyintense desires and urges and
impulses, like one of whichmeant was like a desire that I
had to cut off or to essentiallyremove my breasts and I was.
Experiencing that in the contextof having bipolar and having
like really intense episodes ofbipolar.
And so for a really long time Iconflated various like queer and

(26:46):
trans impulses and instincts anddesires with being sick.
And most of my twenties was avery long and slow process of
disentangling the two.
I think, yeah, it was like quitemy sense of self was very
obscured by that and meant that.

(27:06):
Especially coming into mytransness, most of my
experiences were stabs in thedark where I was like, I don't
really know how this is gonnafeel, but I just have this
desire to, to step in thisdirection anyway.
And then landing there and beinglike, oh my God, I can't believe
I ever didn't exist like this.
And I actually saw my great auntwho's 90, on New Year's day of

(27:27):
this year, and I hadn't seen herfor a few years.
I hadn't seen her since sincebefore I had top surgery.
And actually I think May, it wasaround the time I changed my
name a few years ago.
It was the last time I'd seenher and I.
I, yeah, I don't wanna tell thisstory'cause it's so beautiful,
but I basically went to see herand I remember being quite,
self-conscious.
I was like, she follows me onsocial media, but also, she's 90

(27:48):
years old.
I don't know how across all ofthis she's gonna be.
And I remember putting on, I hada single on and I decided to put
on a t-shirt'cause I was like,I'm just gonna, make this
somewhat less obvious what hashappened.
And I went in and I was sat withher and she and I walked in and
she said, oh my goodness, lookat you.
Oh my God.
Oh my God.
And she was like, you look sohappy.

(28:11):
And she was like, you just lookamazing.
Don't you look incredible?
And like I walked in and she satdown and she had all this tea
and biscuits laid out for me.
And we sat there and we spokefor a few hours.
And she was asking me about mynew book and my PhD and all
these different things.
And then she, just said shestarted talking.
She started telling this storyabout when I was in hospital
when I was 17, and my Nan hadcome in with the two of them had

(28:32):
come in, which was my nan washer sister.
And how my Nan had apparentlytossed like a bag of candy on
the bed and been like, oh, doyou want this?
And Gwen was like saying to me,she was saying, you looked so
upset that your grandmother wasdismissing all this pain that
you were in.
And, you didn't complain and youjust sat there and you weathered
it anyway.
But I could tell how upset youwere that she was like

(28:53):
dismissing where you were orwhere you were at.
And I couldn't remember thestory she was telling about, so
I was just like nodding along.
And then she said, do you thinkthey knew?
Do you think your mom and yournan knew who you were then?
And then I had this moment ofbeing like, oh my God, she's
talking about me being trans.
I was like, maybe I can talkabout this.
And so I explained what I, justrelayed to you about this, like
desire to remove my breasts thatI had at that age and and how

(29:15):
like I'd conflated that withbeing sick.
And then she just asked me, shewas like, was it a big surgery?
And so then I talked to herabout the surgery and I said, no
one, none of my friends coulddeny how much happier I was
afterwards, even though it waslike really intense.
And she just said.
Yeah that's obvious.
That's obvious to me.
And then if I'm, yeah, I feelemotional, I'm thinking about it

(29:36):
now, but basically she looked atme and she said, I bet you had a
lot of people telling you not todo that.
And I bet you had a lot ofpeople asking you, are you sure?
Because, and she was like, it isa strange thing.
I haven't heard of anyonewanting to do that before.
And then she said, but for therest of your life, now you can
rest assured that you can trustyourself.
Not many people can say thatabout themselves.
And she was like,'cause youlisten to yourself, you listen

(29:57):
to this thing that you hadinside you and you just did it
anyway.
And I've been thinking aboutthat so much because I think, in
a world that is very muchinsisting on the expulsion of
trans and gender diverse people,not only from public life but
also from the publicimagination.
And in this world that's sooften distrustful of trans and
gender diverse.

(30:17):
And also, just queertestimonies.
Full stop.
I think to be able to trustyourself and listen to those
impulses and desires is such agift and feels really, I don't
know, revolutionary orsomething.

That's so incredibly special.
Thank you for sharing all ofthat.

Thank you.
Thanks for asking the question.

Yeah.
Is Gwen still with us?

is.
Yeah, she is.
I'll have to send her this.
We

Thank you Gwen.
If everyone in the world couldbe more like Gwen, then the
world would be a better place.
Although she probably has herflaws too.
We all have our flaws.
We're only human.
The follow up in the book aboutcoming out is the concept of
needing to come out all thetime.
And, this is something myhusband and I.
Will sidebar about that.

(31:05):
So many people don't necessarilyunderstand the, even the micro
coming out that you have to doon a regular basis, to just
acknowledge your husband in ameeting so that someone knows
it's just like a little, a teenytiny clock.
Oh, they're gay.
Oh, they have a husband.
Oh, little nuggets here andthere.
It's just a constant thing thatis.

(31:29):
Something that I think hasstarted to come naturally to us
as queer people, but also, isjust a part of life that we
don't really think aboutanymore, which is just so weird.
So it was a nice To read in thebook.

Yeah.
Yeah.
And it was also, one thing thatI was really interested in
bringing into the book as wellwas like the choice not to, and
that not like putting any sortof moral value on, on, on that.
Because I think there was thiswoman who I saw speak.
At a event called Queer Storiesin Australia a few years ago.

(32:02):
And she's Lebanese and she, herand her partner met doing this
like organizing for Palestineand in the nineties.
And she was talking about herand her partner kind, coming
together in this beautifulstory.
And then she spoke about thedecision not.
To come out to her family.
And she just, she said this onesentence that has stuck with me

(32:24):
for so long where she said, ifyour sexuality or your gender
identity is like the point offriction in your life, it just
goes to show how many places youbelong everywhere else.
I've thought so much about that.
And actually Cara's character inthe book, her parents are Irish
Catholics and her family is, shechooses not to go, sorry, not to

(32:46):
come out to them at all.
And that was like one thing thatI was like really interested in,
in exploring not only this ideaof having to come out over and
over again, but the specificmoments in which you decide not
to.
And yeah, not, as I said, notplacing any sort of moral
judgment on that because Ithink.
One thing that Limb One learns,is to respect that.
And Ra talks about how hermother would genuinely believe

(33:10):
that she wouldn't find her inheaven.
And she's I actually don't wantmy mom to die thinking that
she's not gonna see me again.
And that, that like silence, Ithink Limb one can't quite
grapple with that initially anddoes play some moral judgment
and I was like, you are notliving your truth.
And is judging her for it, butultimately learns, I think.
Yeah.
That, that, that silence is thisgift actually, that Kari is

(33:30):
giving her mother.

Yeah it's also, again, the things that come up
all the time on gay's readingsimply because of the nature of
who we all are, but the conceptof how.
Stuck in binary thinking we

Mm, mm-hmm.

And it is just how we have to declare something
so that everyone around us knowswhat box to put us in.

Totally.

And not to make this about me, but you, you
talking about.
Needing to determine when you doand don't want to come out or
whatever term you want to use.
When I was in high school, a kidcame up to me and flat out asked
me, are you gay?
And my response to him was, whatdo you think?

(34:19):
And he said I think you are.
And I said, okay you can keepthinking whatever you want to
think, and I will just keepbeing whoever I am.
And.
Upon reflection.
I don't know how the hell Ithought of something like that
to say I'm very proud of17-year-old Jason, I think if we
all just need something to holdonto and it's frustrating and

(34:41):
disappointing and we can't justbe and let today.
Live our life, how we're livingit today and tomorrow, live our
life, how we're living ittomorrow or minute by minute or
moment by moment.
Because that's all life is.

Yeah.
Really?

You use the phrase coming into yourself And
I think the book, there's a lotof becoming, What does it mean
to become to you?

to, To draw off the image that I use in the
book is I think so much of, likemy experience of queerness has
been like one of.
Almost being suspended, in likethe state of ambiguity of things
like not quite making sense ornot quite being able to place
something.
And then that picture likecoming into focus.
And so like for me, yeah, I verymuch feel like.

(35:34):
Coming into myself and thisyeah.
Processes of becoming have beenabout.
I like the image that I use atthe very beginning of the book
is of looking at this pictureupside down and it's like
abstract shapes and you'retrying to make sense of it.
And then the picture is likeslowly inverted and suddenly the
like forms take shape and yousee what the picture is of.

(35:55):
And that's very much.
Yeah, I guess how I'veexperienced this and I think,
even having readers suspended ina state of not knowing whether
these are two versions of onelife or in fact or if they're in
fact different people, was partof me wanting to suspend readers
in that same sense of ambiguityso that the text is also slowly

(36:16):
coming into focus and the likestory is taking shape eventually
in a way that then starts tomake sense to us, where then
you're like, oh, I can'tremember what the world looked
like before.
It didn't make sense.

Yeah, it's, yeah, I like what I wanted to say.
Would've given things away and Idon't wanna do that.
But yes, I can concur.
And again, since you can't seeme, you didn't see me like very
emphatically nodding along witheverything you were just saying
thing.
There's a quote in the book.
Life I believe is a constantwandering, and if you're lucky,

(36:49):
you come across someone you wantto wander with.
What do you look for in a fellowwanderer?

I think.
Something to do with time.
Yeah, I've like recently startedwondering for someone who's
walking at the same pace as mein this way that like,

Yes.

Where I'm like, I don't know.
I think I, I move around a lotand my like way of being in the
world has always been like,quite fast paced and and I like.
I travel a lot and I'm in like alot of different, I'm always
like like on the go, even whenI'm like at home in the city
that I live in I mean my, someof my friends who have me on
Find My Friends play, I getliterally play a game called,

(37:35):
where is Dylan as they livetogether and they like open up
their phone and they'll be like,okay, where's Dylan?
And they all have to guess whereI'm gonna be

That's so

because I'm always in different places.
And, and yeah, recently yeah,I've met someone who is moving
in the same, at the same pace asme and um, in, in moves through
the world in a really similarway.
And I think historically maybeit's that like way of being has
been something that people havefound like exciting to be
around, but then ultimately havefound it challenging in the

(38:06):
sense that then they're like,okay, but I'm a homebody and why
aren't you home enough?
Or, like that.
Then it like comes intofriction.
And that's something that's likeinitially quite enticing, ends
up being almost like the pointof the un the beginning of the
unravel.
And this yeah.
Recently has been so exciting tojust be like, oh, what would
this look like if someone wasYeah.
Was walking like very muchbeside me in that way.

Yeah.
You said that and my brainimmediately thought that was.
The most obvious answer and notsaying you answered obviously,
but for me to not think that iswhat you would've said.
But of course you want to wanderwith someone who is wandering at
your

Yeah.

I love that.
Okay.
This is so random and unrelatedand I don't want to give
anything away, but I will saythat there are vows in the book
and they are.
Amazing.
I don't want to ask like, wheredid these come from, but.

(39:07):
But is it that you, are a poetin your heart, is it that you're
a romantic?
Is it that you have greatexamples of deep love around
you?
Is it, does that make sense?

Yeah, definitely.

because it like really came from a person, I
read it as though whoever wrotethis.
Understands love and commitment,really, they really moved me.

That's so cool to hear.
I think because for someone thathas been to so few weddings I
really didn't know if they weregonna resonate.
But I, yeah, it's funny.
I like two things.
I think the first is that.
So many of my like platonicfriendships that like of friends

(39:51):
that I would consider my foundfamily, they have modeled like
such stable and consistent andslow love for me that or so love
to me, modeled this like abeautiful way of loving that.
That has like really, I think somuch of, yeah.
The love that I've learned hasbeen actually from friends and
from found family and then, thesecond thing I think is that

(40:14):
yeah, I very much feel like thisbook was writing.
I love that.
I like maybe only thought, ornot only thought, but had only
experienced in fiction and wasa, was it felt like this really
beautiful like writing orsetting out the kind of love
that I like wanted to experiencein my life.
And I, yeah, I feel.

(40:35):
Very much like I am experiencingthat at the moment and I'm like,
oh, this is like art imitate,life imitating art.
I'm not sure which way aroundit's gone

I love

but yeah, I feel yeah.
Very lucky to

What does real love mean to you?

I think it's, I think it's in the doing.

Oh,

yeah,

say more.

I think I.
The, it's as a person that worksin words, I'm way more
interested in how those wordsare like enacted, in the ways
that we like, offer a couch to afriend that's just been evicted
or like a going round to cookmeals for someone that's sick.
Yeah, love very much feels to melike a thing that we do much

(41:18):
more so than a thing that wesay.
And I think that's how Yeah.
There's also one other thingthat I just thought of the
conversation that limb Won haswith Big Dave in the book.
When they're talking about lovebeing not just like a thing that
we say, but a thing that we feeland that it is like.
What a beautiful thing to movethrough the world, knowing that

(41:38):
there are people that like arefeeling love for you and that
sort of like emanates out andthat you like, I don't know.
That really bolsters me andyeah, it makes me feel quite
strong, like in the way that Ithen move through the world to
know that exists and thatthere's yeah, that there's
people in my heart and I'm intheirs, and,

It's so interesting that is how you
articulated this because I, inanother conversation earlier
today was expressing my utterdisdain for heart hands.
When you take your two hands andmake a heart.

(42:15):
Because, and upon unpacking it,I think what I realized is.
It comes across as sopresentational, and I was
explaining to them, this person,I was like, it gives me the ick,
like I genuinely, it like makesmy stomach turn.
I kind of understand why, butit's like I have a phobia of the

(42:37):
two hands coming together tomake a heart.
I don't know, I can't explainit, but,

Amazing.

but the concept of love is a thing that we do or
love is a thing that we feel.
I talked around in circles withthis author and I got to the
point where I was like, oh, Ithink because what I want to see
is someone touching their heart,Right?
Showing, you have touched me.

(43:04):
You have made me feel, or I feela way about you, and to fully
understand that the love iscoming from somewhere, or it is,
bursting out of me to dosomething for you versus
something so presentational asthe heart hands.

Totally.
Yeah.
And'cause it feels like theheart hands feel disconnected.
Yeah.

exactly.
Yes, and I think that's why I amallergic to them

That makes sense.

This is like my new high horse and I need to get
off of it.
This is

This is the hill you'll die on.

is, and I don't understand why, and there's no
way I'm ever gonna win thisfight because Taylor Swift does
the heart, hands, and.
That's it, period.
The end.

End of story.

I know exactly.
oh my God.
You talk about the importance ofnames Which is amazing because
we really are only learningabout Limb one and limb two.
And it, it comes up as a sound.
Our voice makes, that signifiesus.

(44:11):
A, a quote that spoke to me isthat your name remains the cause
of your story.
What do you mean by that?

I think it's like.
The thing that every, all theother sentences that, that we
like, construct or the storiesthat we tell about ourselves,
start out from that name.
And and because I wrote thisbook I started writing this book
in 2021, which was the year thatI chose my name Dylan.

(44:39):
And so I was thinking a lotabout what?
Yeah, like meaning I wanted toembed in like this new.
Iteration of myself.
Um, And Dylan, the way,especially the way that I spell
it, is the Welsh spelling.
My family's from Wales, and itmeans born of the sea or toward
the tide.
And I chose it because I like, Iwas such a water baby, but also

(45:04):
water has been this thing thatI've like constantly turned to
throughout my life.
And yeah.
And so I think, yeah.
That name then felt sosignificant.
It's oh, this is speaking tolike how I am in the world.
And yeah, every story that Itell about myself is is
emanating out from this likemeaning, if that makes sense.

Might you say that it's all the limbs coming
off of your name.

Yes, exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.

I love that.
And of course, having read thebook, that means so much more.
Slash you could also listen tothis and then read the book and
reading the book will mean somuch more and vice versa.

the one thing Yeah.
That I've actually realized inthe last year and which I think
also makes the name feel evenmore significant is I really
didn't read much growing up.
I was such a painfully slowreader, and as I said, I was a
nerd for surfing and I justwanted to be a pro surfer, but
it meant that I spent hours andhours, four years from when I

(46:08):
was like.
Seven or eight until I was 15,before and after school in the
water, reading water, likereading the ocean and like
reading swell lines to then beable to judge, like which wave
you're gonna pick and how orwhere you're gonna position
yourself by the time it gets toyou and.
My, like reading practice insome sense when I was growing up
was like just reading water.

(46:29):
And I think then the, this nameof tour the Tide makes so much
sense.
And even like this book,surprisingly is the least I've
written about water of all fourof my books.
And and yeah, it like, it justcontinues to be this sort of
here I go again an under, likethe current at the bottom of my
work.
But it does, it underscoreseverything that I've ever

(46:51):
written

an undercurrent

Yeah, it was so cliche.

It's it's funny that's what you say.
'cause what I was gonna say, aswe're ending our conversation,
something that I a beautifulthing to take away from the book
is that language, the title is alanguage of limbs and language
does not always mean words.
And so you talking about readingthe water.

Yeah.

and I think people think of when they hear
reading.
They think, reading words, butyou can read energy, you can
read situations, you can readall sorts of things that don't
involve words.

totally.
Yeah.
And I think even the, a languageof limbs.
Title.
There's like a part in the bookwhere one of the characters is
meditating on the word familyand what does it mean to be
family in this context, like forthis queer family.
And you're searching for thecollective noun for family and
writes this poem where she'slike testing out different words

(47:55):
that.
That could stand in the I thinkit's like a held of friends or a
comfort of people or, she's likeplaying out all these different
collective nouns.
And the title was actually meimagining what the collective
noun of limbs could be Thatyeah, I imagined limbs as like
dancing around each other.
And so then yeah, as you said,like you can read a whole bunch
of different things and, readingbody language, reading, yeah,

(48:17):
this sort of like the way thesetwo stories like almost collide
and almost intersect, but havethis like lifelong dance.
That's what I imagined thelanguage to be.

Yeah, it's very interpretive, like an
interpretive dance.

exactly.

Like the, like waves in an ocean.

You got it.

Dylan Hardcastle, a Language of limbs.
Thank you so much for being heretoday.

you so much for having me.
It was such a pleasure.

The book is wonderful.
It is out now, wherever you getyour books.
And what else?
Anything else to say?
Anything else to tell you?
I don't think so.
It was a, it's terrific.
Everyone go buy it.

Thank you.

Harper! (48:56):
Guest Gay Reader time!

I love that your nails are giving Glinda an
alphabet, but also, but cover.

Benedict Nguyen (49:05):
Book cover.
It's tis the season, have to bein the mood.

Are you a wicked fan?
Is am I projecting onto you?

project Away.
I've seen the movie, but I havenot seen the MO musical, so I
actually don't know how it ends.
If I see the second one, that'llbe a surprise, but,

I, there are a lot of people that I know who
don't know how the story ends,and I'm obsessed.
It's been around for 20 years.

Things that miss me.
But during the film I saw itwith a friend.
My friend reached over andgrabbed my pinky

Oh no.

and I just burst out laughing.
'cause yeah,

yeah.
We love them.
It's

an incredible press tour.

that is about to start again.

Are they okay?
I.

Are they okay?
You're living their life.
I feel like right now.
You have your pink and greennails.
You're on a press tour.

Of a kind.
Yeah.
Honored to,

Yes.
Ariana Grande.

yes.

How's your day?
What's happening?
What?

Day's been okay.
Had rehearsal for this dancework that I've been
choreographing.
And we did our first run throughtoday, so that felt great.

Say more.

did some work, emails.

it?
What is this dance piece?

Yeah.
It's a short word calleddefense.
And it's based off of ideas thatI've been toying around with,
you know, I have single trackminds.
One thought.
It's about sports.

Where did this love of sport, I don't wanna
even say love again.
I'm, I'll stop projecting ontoyou, but where did sports come
from for you

that's not projection.
That's stated.
We love sports.
Yeah, I was not very athleticgrowing up, but I started
dancing and I.
Formal training when I wasaround 17, and that just helped
me understand my body and whatmy body could do differently.
And I'm like, wow, there's morepotential here than I've been

(51:04):
activating.

Were you well-rounded?
Were you a modern girly?
Were you a tap girly?
What was your dance

My early training was in ballet, but I've
become a bit more well-rounded.
I've become more well-roundedsince

my background is in theater and when I went to
theater, summer camp, once aweek there would be like a dance
class.
And so every week change likewhat you were learning.
And so I wouldn't call it formaltraining, I would call it summer
camp training, whatever thatmeans.
But I, my point being, I'vetaken a ballet class, I've taken
a tap class, I've taken a jazzclass, so I'm like, I'm familiar

(51:42):
with, adu.

You've had exposure

exactly.
Yes.
I can play, I can gr plie.
Yes, exactly.
Thank you.
Ariana Grande, plie.
Bring it back.

Full circle.

So it's always been volleyball or was were
sports like a thing in yourhousehold?
Are you, do you, are you afootball person?
Tell me more.

Not not really.
Yeah, it's volleyball

Interesting.
I say interesting.
'cause it's like.
Niche in that you're not liketurning on the TV and seeing
volleyball,

not in this country.
Yeah.
But it's a lot more popular inother parts of the world.
And I was curious about what,like what is it about volleyball
that hasn't allowed it to reacha certain kind of mainstream?

What do you think it is?

Like a pet theory is just that, like it's
like in the us like men's sportswill tend to have to like, eye
roll pave the way for thewomen's side to be popular and
like the way that baseball,basketball, American football,
allow a certain kind of.
Aggressive masculinity.

Yeah

and they fold that into the physicality of the
sport itself.
I, it's my little genderanalysis

If there was tackling in volleyball, it would
be very popular in the States,right?

But it's, there's a net.
It's in that sense, more polite.

But it, I'm suddenly on this like volleyball
wavelength of just I wonder howit became like the thing that
you played on the beach and notbaseball, right?
Like how did volleyball end upto be the thing?
It's just, anyway, veryinteresting.
We could do like a deep divearmchair history on volleyball.

Do you?
Do you have ball sports that youlike watching or playing?

None that I could talk about on the podcast.

Incredible.
On air off air.

I was the kid who played T-Ball and was put in the
outfield and.
Just twirled my arms and lookedup at the sky.
And I've never been to afootball game.
I've been to some hockey game.
No, but hockey's, that's not aball game.

(54:09):
That's a puck.

Flat ball.

it's a flat ball.
It's like a burger.
Yeah.
I don't know why I've neverbeen, I'm very competitive and
so conceptually I like sports.
But I think as a kid it was thislike projection of quote unquote
manliness and I didn't I didn'tfit in with.

(54:35):
The kids that were playing thesports.
And then as an adult, I am soannoyed that someone who tackles
other people and like kicksballs makes more money than
teachers.
So I like morally have a hardtime with it, but I'll play
pickleball with friends.

Absolutely ball sports for adults.

Yeah, though it's funny'cause I said I was
competitive the very first timewe went to play pickleball with
some friends, we were invitedand I was like, great.
I was looking up rules before wewent.
I've ne I'd never played before.
We get there and we're just likenoodling around and I was cool,
when are we gonna, when are wegonna start?
Who's, let's get the pointsstarted.

(55:22):
And then the one who organizedit was like, oh no, we don't
really calculate points, we justplay.
And I was like, okay, but how dowe know who wins?

My name is Benedict Win.
You understand,

exactly.
Exactly.
So once I reframed myexpectations of okay, we, this
is not a winning, losingsituation.
It's a hanging out with friendsand hitting a ball over Annette.
Then I was on board, but,

so you don't secretly count the points in
your head.

oh no, I do.

Okay, great.

But I'm not like angry that no one else is.

Internal intrinsic mo motivation.

right.
It's I'm competing againstmyself, From the last time.

It's funny how in, in my experience in like
dance theater world to seepeople's competitiveness come
out in certain contexts.

Yeah.

And,

Is there something in particular that
comes to mind for you?

I think for me it's been more like, I, like I.
Took myself out of like cattlecalls at a certain part early in
my career.
I was like showing up to thoseand just seeing everyone size
each other up and I'm like, I,this isn't about this for me.
Or, I'm not tough enough forthis.

(56:37):
But yeah, I'm like, wow,everyone's, muscling their way
towards a job.
That probably isn't fun I don'tknow.

it certainly doesn't pay as well as an
athlete.

Not in this economy,

No.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
Anyway, speaking of competingfor things, competing for your
attention, Benedict Win.
What are you reading?
As my guest, gay reader today, Ihave to know

Yeah.
Speaking of theater the bookthat I've been like talking to
friends about is, I think, areyou nodding?
Do you know

No, tell

I want to talk about audition.

no.
Oh my God.
Tell me everything.
I'm obsessed.

I Wow.
Katie tomorrow.
What a hero.
I don't have my copy

I had it reachable, not like it was.
It is,

it nearby.

yes.
Oh my God.

I like,

Tell me what, why do you love it?
Tell me everything.

I think I finished it and then I had my
few interpretations were spoilerfree.

We're spoiler free.

Or spoiler free.
And then I was like digesting myinterpretations.
And then I had dinner with afriend who like was like a
little meh on wanting to read itand I was like, please, I need
to talk about it.
And then she had 12 differentinterpretations that I hadn't
thought of that I was like

and this is why the book is so amazing.
On one hand it is like such a,it is an easy read in the sense
of it's short.
The sentences are not, hard tounderstand, but there's so much
to process and to talk aboutwith other people, And it broke
my brain.

Incredible.
As the best book should.

Yes.
Is there anything else thatyou're reading?

Yeah, I have uh, Vera Blossoms, how to Fuck
Like a girl right now.
A series of essays That's sofunny, so witty.

I just moderated a panel that Vera was on.

Wow.
Incredible.

Okay.
Well, Hot Girls With Balls.

Hot girls with balls.

Win.
What is your elevator pitch?

Yeah.
The phrase that I've been liketossing around in the past few
days has been sic, sporty sickosatire.
It's about two volleyballplayers who are rivals.
They're also lovers who have asecret influencer rivalry that
they don't talk about thatreally only one of them is in

(59:09):
on.
And they're also two AsianAmerican trans women who play
for the men's league,

Yeah.

hot girls with balls.

Yeah, it, I again, wow, projecting is like
the theme of this episode.
What, I can make assumptions ofwhere this comes from, but where
does this book come from foryou?

Yeah, it was thinking about a few themes
happening at once, thevolleyball that I was talking
about earlier and the ongoing.
Attack on trans rights in thiscountry that have been going on
for a long time, and thediscourse around where trans
people fit in sports.
I was thinking about.
Like discourse around certainkinds of internet novels.

(59:59):
I was also reading somecriticism that was like, nobody
wants to read about thepandemic.
It's we should just pretend itnever happened.
And I was like, what if I mixedall of these themes in the same
book?
And what if.
There wasn't just one but twoprotagonists who are Asian
American trans women, and whatif, what if they concurrently

(01:00:20):
make the same kind ofpessimistic choice about
recognizing that they would havea harder time building their
careers in women's league thanin, they're gender assigned at
birth league.

Jason Blitman (01:00:33):
Yeah.

Benedict Nguyen (01:00:34):
And finding if I could open up some humor in
that.

Yeah.
The first Paige alone I thinkgives a sense of the ride that
we're in for.

Yeah.
Got it.
Gotta set the tone.

So okay.
Completely unrelated.
Something I've been asking allof my recent guest gay readers
since I heard this questionasked on the Hulu show,
mid-century modern, in an effortto amplify the incredible humans
around us in our life.

(01:01:13):
If you were to die tomorrow, whowould you ask to delete the
search history on your computer?

Incredible question.
Yeah, my search history is notthat interesting.
I'm not worried about her.

No, but who are we

weird medical and with that yeah.
That, so it's like I'm luckyI've so many friends I call up
and, friends who have beenhelping supporting me throughout
this book process and yeah.
Networks and communities thatI've been building over my adult

(01:01:51):
life.
Yeah, absolutely.

have so many people I could turn to

that's, he said I was on a press tour.
I said, here's a persona.

Oh my

persona is bragging.
Yeah.

Love.
Anything else you wanna bragabout?
You could brag about your starreview.

Yeah, I am very stoked that yes we've gotten
some really nice reviews and sixin green summer, let's go as
I've been talking about it.

Oh my God.
Amazing.
Benedict win everyone.
Go get your copy of Hot GirlsWith Balls Out Now, wherever you
get your books.
And thank you for being my guestgay reader today.

Thank you so much for having me.
Thank you Dylan.
Thank you Benedict.
Uh, language of li a language oflimbs and hot girls with balls
are both out now.
Wherever you get your books,thanks for Thank you everyone
for listening and I will see younext week.
Bye.

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