May 15, 2025 • 40 mins
In this episode of Spill the Tea, host Jason Blitman chats with Alicia Valenski, author of Lonely Planet’s LGBTQ+ Travel Guide, about her journey in creating an inclusive, community-driven resource that highlights 50+ destinations ideal for queer travelers. Alicia shares insights into her interview process with LGBTQ+ insiders and how the book goes beyond standard travel advice by weaving in personal stories and practical tips. Their conversation also explores the unique challenges and joyful moments of writing this groundbreaking guide, which aims to offer both safety and celebration for queer communities around the world.
Alicia Valenski is an American travel writer and the author of The LGBTQ+ Travel Guide with Lonely Planet. With a journalism degree from Penn State, Alicia cut her teeth as a writer and editor at the Charlotte Observer before rising to the lofty heights of senior editor at theSkimm. Now, she’s navigating life in the Netherlands with her partner, their dog, and a GPS that’s forever confused by the country's endless bike paths.
Alicia writes about the ups, downs, and sideways adventures of being a bisexual, neurodivergent expat, all with a generous dose of honesty, humor, and heart. When she’s not exploring new places or sharing her stories, she’s probably lost in a good book, perfecting her napping skills, or rewatching one of her favorite TV shows for the umpteenth time.
BOOK CLUB!
Sign up for the Gays Reading Book Club HERE for only $1
July Book: Disappoint Me by Nicola Dinan
SUBSTACK!
https://gaysreading.substack.com/
MERCH!
http://gaysreading.printful.me
PARTNERSHIP!
Use code READING to get 15% off your madeleine order! https://cornbread26.com/
WATCH!
https://youtube.com/@gaysreading
FOLLOW!
Instagram: @gaysreading | @jasonblitman
Bluesky: @gaysreading | @jasonblitman
CONTACT!
hello@gaysreading.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello and welcome to GazeReading and this episode of
Spill the Tea, where today I amspilling the tea on lgbtq plus
travel with Alicia Valenski, whowrote Lonely Planets LGBTQ Plus
Travel Guide.
As always, if you like whatyou're hearing, please share us
with your friends.
You could follow us on socialmedia at Gays Reading.
(00:21):
You could watch this episodeover on YouTube.
We're on Blue Sky, we are onInstagram or all over the place,
If you are so inclined, leave usa five star review wherever you
get your podcasts.
We've had some fantasticepisodes in the last couple of
weeks, so make sure to checkthose out if you are new to us,
if you've already listened.
Fantastic.
Thank you so much for listening,And all that being said, please
(00:44):
enjoy my conversation withAlicia Valenski.
Jason Blitman (00:48):
So Valinski.
Let's get into it the lgbtq plustravel guide interviews,
itineraries and inspiration fromQueer Insiders in 50 plus proud
places.
Alicia Valenski (01:02):
Yes, that is my book.
Jason Blitman (01:03):
alliteration.
Alicia Valenski (01:04):
Yes.
That's honestly probably one ofmy Achilles heels as a writer.
But yes, we do.
Jason Blitman (01:10):
Fantastic.
Can you elaborate a bit more asto what this book really is?
Alicia Valenski (01:16):
Totally.
So originally I went to myliterary agent with the idea for
a book that I wanted to callaround the world with 80 gays.
She said, no.
You cannot write that book.
However, I do think that there'sa kernel of something really
interesting in there, which isinterviewing queer people around
the world about where they liveand what makes it a good
(01:38):
destination to visit if you're aqueer traveler.
So we workshopped the concept abit, and essentially this is a
community driven guide.
So I.
Absolutely did not want this tobe like, oh my God.
Like, Bye girl.
Gives you her suggestions forplaces around the world like
Honey?
No.
So I wanted it to berepresentative of the community.
I wanted there to be like gaycouples and lesbians and every
(02:01):
identity under the sun.
I wanted it to be different agesand different ethnicities and
just as inclusive and diverse aspossible to really be more
representative of what is itlike to exist as a queer person
in this cultural moment?
2024 specifically was when I waswriting the bulk of this, and
then in these differentdestinations, what do these
people actually do?
(02:21):
Not when is the pride paradenot, where are the clubs?
What would somebody who liveshere actually do?
If you visited them and you werelike, Hey, I've never been here
before and I'm queer, whereshould I go?
What would they personally tellyou?
What are their personal like?
Tried and true recommendations.
And so that was how it allhappened.
And it just became this reallybeautiful compendium of
(02:43):
interviews.
And it's not just their travelrecommendations, right?
It's like people's stories, likeAngina heals telling me like I
was overweight as a child and Iwas bullied.
So now I like drag saved my lifeand it healed me.
So I wanna heal other people.
And I'm like, but also, where doI get good Thai food?
And she's I can tell you thattoo.
Jason Blitman (03:00):
Yeah.
And that's something that I wasjust gonna say.
You're not just getting a list,you're getting people's real
stories about this is who I am,this is where I'm from, this is
why, or this is where I live.
This is why I love this place.
What was the moment for youwhere you were like, we need
this thing.
Alicia Valenski (03:17):
So I.
For me, as I've alluded to, I ama neurodivergent person, so I
have this weird thing where Ihave to try to balance my A DHD
and my autism.
And my autism is like, Hey, weneed to give as much.
I.
Clear information as conciselyas possible.
This needs to be super useful.
(03:38):
Like they need to be able toplan a trip from this.
And then my A DH ADHD is like,but people's stories and
distractions and look at thepretty pictures and let's make
this really nice.
And so for me, I needed tosatisfy both of those sides and
I had to satisfy my anxiety withthe whole section on what to do
in case of emergency.
What are the numbers you cancontact for your safety around
the world?
Like this needed to bepractical.
(04:02):
But in addition to beingpractical and obviously touching
on safety, I wanted it to becelebratory.
I wanted it to be queer joybecause like we know we're in
danger all the time.
Like we know that there areplaces that we could get fined
or jailed or murdered forliterally existing.
We know that like we have totouch on it eventually, but it
does not need to be this entirebook.
(04:22):
So focusing on people andfocusing on their communities
and what makes them amazing wassuch a like positive tone shift.
I think for me, working withLonely Planet was such a joy
because this is just notsomething like anything they've
done before.
This was not a, it's not acoffee table book, and it's not
a guidebook, but it's got partsof both to your point.
(04:43):
And so it really became its owncategory.
Like I, I don't quite know howit happened other than I was
really adamant in arguing fordifferent parts of this book
that needed to exist and for theway that it should exist and.
It's a real choose your ownadventure.
'cause it's okay, do I know thatI just wanna go to islands?
So I'm gonna go to the inclusiveIsland Escapes section.
(05:05):
Do I just wanna read people'sstories and know that maybe I'm
gonna be drawn to Europe?
I could start there.
Like you can go wherever youwant to begin this book.
It doesn't have to be read fromstart to finish.
So I don't think I answered yourquestion, but it's just, it's
been absolutely nuts and such adelight and so exciting to see
people's response.
Jason Blitman (05:23):
It's also not overwhelming.
And that's, it's like you, youlook for a recipe online and you
have to read through pages andpages of a story before you get
to the actual recipe.
You're, when you talk aboutpeople are sharing their stories
in this book, I wanna be veryclear that it's not pages and
pages of a story that then it'sfinally you get to their
(05:44):
recommendations.
No, it's like nice and succinct,but also very meaningful.
So will share that as I wasreading the book or I didn't, my
A DHD didn't let me sit down andread the whole book because of
all the pictures, because of allthe places, because of all the
titles.
But as I was flipping through, Iwas getting emotional because I
(06:04):
didn't know that I needed this.
And you said, I don't know thatI answered your question.
That for me, the, I, I didn'teven know that this was a book
that I needed.
Was there a moment, were youtraveling somewhere?
Were you trying to put togetheran itinerary for yourself where
you were like, I need aresource, but that doesn't
exist.
Was there, did you have thatlight bulb moment?
Alicia Valenski (06:26):
So essentially I think it started with my own
experience moving to Amsterdambecause so many people would
come visit me and the way that Iwould give them my
recommendations.
Again, my A DHD, I cannot givesomeone just like a bullet
pointed list.
I have to say so many things,all the fucking time.
Like I just cannot shut up forone second.
So I would lead in with a littlebit of context and then be like,
(06:49):
okay, but.
Let me bold the points ofinterest so that if they wanna
skim this, they can find thatreally easily.
And like maybe I should includea map of the information in case
they wanna view it that way.
Maybe I should include somelinks of things.
Maybe I should include picturesso they don't get bored.
This is me just creating like aguest room book for my own
apartment in Amsterdam, beinglike, you came to visit us now
(07:09):
what?
Here's where to go forbreakfast, here's where to go
for whatever.
This is just, this book is howmy brain works.
And to be fair, notneurotypical.
So I'm glad it's resonating withpeople, but I think it's just
truly a shift of how youapproach travel recommendations.
It doesn't have to be a bulletedlist.
It doesn't have to be like superin depth.
(07:30):
It can be information andstorytelling.
It's like I could never learnhistory in school, but the
moment that I read like aliterary version of historical
fiction, it was like, oh, I getit.
This is what happened with theBoin sisters.
Got it.
Jason Blitman (07:42):
No, exactly.
I wanna pull up my own email.
Oh, I have an Amsterdam email.
That I put together after I wasin Amsterdam,'cause a friend was
going right after me.
similarly, I have links and Ihave like descriptions of why,
and even I even have, I talkabout how Amsterdam is known for
(08:04):
their Indonesian food and I linkto a restaurant that has since
closed.
But I was like, but it'simportant for you to know that
this exists because go findsomething that's similar to
this.
'cause it was such a.
Alicia Valenski (08:16):
The Indonesian food and the ESE food, like
that's such a goodrecommendation.
It's really sorry, go look upwho was colonized by the country
that you're visiting and theirfood is gonna be really good in
the place that you're visiting,which is so fucked.
But also go patronize thosebusinesses.
Support them.
Yeah, it makes total sense.
Jason Blitman (08:33):
But it's just so fun hearing how you are
describing the origins of this,because that deeply speaks to
me.
Alicia Valenski (08:39):
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (08:39):
Let's back up a tiny bit.
You talked about your experienceworking with Lonely Planet and
how they've never done anythinglike this before.
I think so many people, I assumeanyone who has traveled places
thinks I wanna write a travelbook, I wanna be a travel guide.
I want, or they go eat in at anice restaurant, I wanna be a
food critic.
There are these sort offabulous.
(09:01):
I don't wanna say over the topcareer aspirations, but there
are, it's such a nicheopportunity that people are
like, I want to do this thing.
It sounds so novel and exciting.
What was that process like foryou?
What was it like working withLonely, lonely Planet?
What was it like writing afreaking travel guide,
Alicia Valenski (09:18):
absolutely wild.
So first I got.
So incredibly lucky with everystep of this.
Like I don't wanna be the personwho's oh, I just got lucky.
I, of course, also think thatI'm very talented and did a good
job at this, but more so thanthat.
Like I got very lucky that I waspitching this at a time when
Lonely Planet was.
Already thinking about wantingmore L-G-B-T-Q content and
(09:42):
reaching out to them, havingthem be like, oh my God, we're
so interested in this.
Let us set up an interview.
Like I spent a lot of time withmy agent building out the
proposal and really fine tuningit, making sure that it had like
the appropriate demographicinformation, the appropriate
comparative titles.
Like why should this book bewritten by specifically you
(10:02):
specifically now, specificallyfor us?
We didn't just pitch to LonelyPlanet, we pitched to a bunch of
different publishers, andultimately, the vision that
Lonely Planet had for the bookand the offer that they were
able to present was just soincredibly compelling.
I couldn't have dreamed thatwould even be a possibility.
Like I'm writing this proposalthinking, I hope someone picks
(10:22):
it up.
If not, I guess I canself-publish and then it's like
lonely fucking planet.
So it's crazy.
Absolutely crazy.
But then in addition to gettingthe offer and starting the work
to work with such an amazingeditor, Becca at Lonely Planet
is so phenomenal, so thoughtful.
She just makes everything shine.
The designer, Emily, is thereason that the book is so
(10:44):
freaking beautiful.
Every person I interviewed iswhy the book is interesting.
So I'm certainly not doing thatself-deprecating thing of it was
everyone else.
It wasn't me.
It was definitely also me andlogistics of this was a
nightmare to pay everyone, getcontracts signed and whatever,
but.
Jason Blitman (10:58):
Sure.
But it does take a team to put abook together like this.
Alicia Valenski (11:00):
It's not just me by any means, and then
there's like the sales andmarketing team and the PR team.
Like it takes a village to put abook into the world.
It has been a dream, and I,since I was a child, wanted to
be an author.
Once I was an older child, Iwanted to be Anthony Bourdain.
This was kind of me going downthat route, and it's just been
(11:21):
surreal.
It's been so cool.
Jason Blitman (11:23):
What was, you said you had to answer the
questions, why me?
Why now?
Why this, why?
Ones that you rattled off that Iremember.
You you shared little nuggets ofthat earlier on in this
conversation.
Can you unpack that a tiny bitmore?
Alicia Valenski (11:39):
Let me back up.
Now, my day job that is nottravel writing, which has long
been my side hustle, is an SEO.
So I have worked in searchengine optimization, which makes
sense as a travel writer,'causeI can get eyeballs on my work
also.
It's really rad.
But looking yeah, of course.
Honestly, like I'm available forwork, anybody but truly it was
(12:01):
very obvious to me in doing theresearch for this book proposal,
there just are not as manyresources as you would think for
queer travel online and thesearch interest in it versus the
results that there are for thosequeries just don't match.
And essentially the way that Iphrased it in the proposal is.
(12:21):
This is like a hole in theinternet that's really a hole in
our cultural fabric.
Like, why are we notprioritizing content for this
community?
Why are we not making it asaccessible as possible?
Why are we not talking aboutanything other than the fact of
these places are dangerous forqueer travel, or these places
have a pride parade sponsored byHeineken.
Like it, it's always likecorporate sponsored and rainbow
(12:44):
washed or.
It's really fear mon, so whydon't we have something in
between?
And that was the big thing forme was this is a community that
deserves to feel just as welcomearound the world as any other
community, and we should beenabling that to happen.
Jason Blitman (13:01):
You said Lonely Planet didn't really have a lot
in this space, did they?
do they have a standardpractice?
Do they, they've obviouslythey've created many travel
guides, can you share a little,is there inside scoop of how the
lonely planet specific processworks?
And then how did that, how didthe sort of marriage, how did
(13:24):
the gay marriage work?
Alicia Valenski (13:26):
Yeah.
So I will say in a traditionalguidebook that's like
destination driven, there'salmost always a section
somewhere in the book thataddresses L-G-B-T-Q culture and
has recommendations in thatspace.
So that exists.
I.
But it wasn't a thing thatexisted the other way around.
It was like you had to have thedestination first, and then
there might be a section aboutit.
(13:46):
Also had content on web that wasbased on L-G-B-T-Q travel, but
they didn't really have iteverywhere, so it was piecemeal.
So it seems and I'm gonnaassume.
I should really check with my PRpeople before I give these
answers.
I'm gonna assume that thepandemic also probably impacted
the speed at which Lonely Planetwas able to pick this up as a
(14:07):
priority.
So I think if I had to guess,they were probably ready for
this to be a thing in 2020 andthen everything shut down and
panic.
So then for me to approach themin 20 23, 20 24 and be like, I'm
ready to write this book, andhere's how I envision it and
here's why it's completelydifferent from everything else
on the market.
(14:28):
It was a really good time forthem to pick it up and they were
really.
Intentional and they cared alot.
Like this team really deeplycared about this being a
resource for this community.
And I'm so grateful for thatbecause they could have just
been like, hell yeah, we knowthose queer people have deep
pockets.
Let's go.
Like they could have just beenlike totally money grubby, but
they weren't.
They wanted this to be reallythoughtfully put together.
(14:51):
And I think that shows.
Jason Blitman (14:53):
Did they have, I don't wanna use the word
influence'cause that soundsaggressive, but were there
cities or countries that wereimportant to them to include
because of whatever reason?
Alicia Valenski (15:04):
Super good question.
No.
And so the interesting thing is,and I think this was probably
the scariest part for LonelyPlanet, was in my proposal, I
did not give destinations.
I was like, here's what theycould be maybe, but this was
people first.
I found the people then thatinformed the destinations that
were featured.
(15:24):
So I had this whole group ofpeople that I'm like, I have
either followed this person'swork for a long time, or I've
heard a lot about them, or I'veseen them in different places,
and I think that I can trustthem to have good travel
recommendations as a queerperson.
And I think that they have theauthority to speak on this
topic.
(15:44):
And then I basically reached outand was like, hi, I'm doing this
project and I would love tofeature you for this
destination.
Would you wanna work together?
I can pay you a little bit.
And then basically, I either gota yes or a no from everyone, and
that's how the table of contentsgot built out.
So it was very much.
I want it to be the right peoplefirst, more so than the
destinations.
Thankfully, it worked outbeautifully.
(16:05):
There are some reallyinteresting destinations in that
list, and it's not just New Yorkand London, although they both
are in there.
It's also like Richmond,Virginia and Edinburgh,
Scotland, and all thesedifferent places that I don't
think are the first to come tomind for people when they think
of queer travel, which wasreally cool.
Jason Blitman (16:23):
is where I just opened the book to
Alicia Valenski (16:25):
Yeah, there you go.
Jason Blitman (16:26):
things I wouldn't have thought I.
Alicia Valenski (16:29):
SGA Tuck Douglas in Michigan.
It's if Gilmore Girls was on thelake, it's so weird.
But it's like a gay mecca.
Jason Blitman (16:37):
Fascinating.
I
Alicia Valenski (16:39):
Yeah,
Jason Blitman (16:39):
many where I was that's where the A DH ADHD
kicked in.
I was like, what's this place Iwanna,
Alicia Valenski (16:44):
All the pictures, I'm like, I wanna go
there.
Yeah, of course.
Jason Blitman (16:47):
I know.
Was there any, like this led tothat this person led to that
person situation?
Alicia Valenski (16:53):
Oh hundred percent.
So honestly, once I got a yesfrom I.
Two different groups within thequeer community.
Once I got a yes from the queerNomads lesbian couple in London,
all the other lesbian couples orqueer women that I reached out
to were like, oh yeah, ifthey're on board, we're on
board.
On the other side, it was likeonce I had two bad tourists in
(17:15):
Madrid and I had couple of menin.
Amsterdam, everyone was like, ohyeah, we all know them.
If they're involved, this isprobably fine.
So it was really like buildingup those initial contexts.
But then some were likecompletely unrelated and unaware
of everything.
Like it's not a book full ofinfluencers.
There's like a queer bookshopowner, there's a queer activist
from Malta who's like works inpolitics.
(17:37):
There's just people all over themap.
And I wanted it to,
Jason Blitman (17:40):
people that you from Instagram or stumbled upon
on Instagram or social media orthe internet or
Alicia Valenski (17:48):
and that word of mouth situation, right?
So many queer people.
And this is in the forward fromthe book, which Paula Achman
wrote, and she and I worked forthe same publication like many
moons ago.
But she says word of mouthreally is how this was spread
for such a long time.
It was the only way that wecould find information that was,
Jason Blitman (18:05):
Yeah.
Alicia Valenski (18:06):
and so the recommendations that I got from
the initial people I spoke to.
Informed the little dominoeffect, so it was really
interesting.
My favorite was that when I wasthinking about Thailand,
especially as they werelegalizing same-sex marriage, I
was like, it would be so cool ifI could have the RuPaul of
Thailand vagina heels, but thatwould never happen.
I reached out to the Thaitourism Board to be like, who
(18:27):
would you like to see featured?
I'm not as familiar with thismarket, and they fucking
connected me with pan heels.
And I was like, this is insanethat this was your
recommendation.
I love this.
Thank you.
Can I be a guest judge on DragRace, please?
Jason Blitman (18:40):
Seriously.
Alicia Valenski (18:41):
My God,
Jason Blitman (18:42):
a hug when you go
Alicia Valenski (18:43):
yeah.
Honestly can I be in RuPaul'spresence?
That'd be cool.
But Pina now will send me likelittle voice memos and be like,
just wanted to say thank youagain for including me in the
book.
Like really so thrilled to be apart of this project.
I'm like, girl, you could havebeen so snobby and standoffish
with me and I would've had noproblem with it, but like why
are you also the sweetest, mosthumble baby?
(19:04):
I love this.
Jason Blitman (19:05):
That's so fun.
Alicia Valenski (19:07):
It's
Jason Blitman (19:07):
Are there any places that you needed to cut
from the book?
Alicia Valenski (19:11):
amazing to cut from the book.
No, thankfully there were placesI was never gonna include in the
first place.
I would never put like SaudiArabia or like Yemen because
it's like we would literally getmurdered if we went there.
No.
I will say I had the toughesttime including I wanted to
include as many differentlocations as possible, of
course, and be like widespreadthroughout the world.
(19:31):
But there is still a lot ofcontention around queer rights
in a lot of countries in Africaand in a lot of countries in
Asia.
So it was a little bit harderto.
How can I put it?
I want to include those spaces,but not at the peril of the
reader.
So that was ultimately what Iwas thinking was like.
Even if there is like a reallytight-knit subculture of a queer
(19:52):
community here, if overall thesentiment in that country is
negative toward the L-G-B-T-Qcommunity, then I don't feel
safe sending you there.
'cause I want you to be safe.
So that was a little bitchallenging.
So I was so grateful to be ableto include Cape Town and
Johannesburg and South Africa.
I was so grateful to be able toinclude Bangkok in Thailand.
There's a bunch of otherdestinations that are included
(20:13):
in kind of the hit list of likeadrenaline pumping adventures
and like those family friendlyfestivities, all of those we got
to be a little bit moreinclusive in that section, but
for the main profiles we were alittle bit more limited, I would
say to people who felt reallycomfortable recommending their
destination.
And even in Cape Town, Lya says,I don't know that Cape Town is
(20:34):
the most queer friendly, but itis beautiful and worth visiting.
I think you should go toJohannesburg while you're there.
'cause that's where you're gonnafind queer community.
So it's like the combination ofthem and being so transparent
and for real with the reader.
It's like an influencer.
If they're like, oh my God, goto this restaurant.
It's amazing.
And you go there and it sucksbecause they just got paid to
say that, no, you don't wantthat.
So I wanted this to be theantithesis.
(20:56):
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (20:56):
them.
Were there places where, youtalk about Yemen, like I think,
I don't wanna say that's quoteunquote obvious, but I think
there are places that are top ofmind, places that we might not
want to ever visit.
Were there places that youdidn't think that and it
surprised you?
Alicia Valenski (21:15):
This is maybe a little bit dark, but the US at
this point, I feel a little bitweird about.
I know, sorry.
But at this point, the only onesthat I'm like, shit now I'm a
little bit nervous, I am tellingpeople to go to the former
capital of the Confederacy,Richmond, Virginia, or to go to
Tiny blue.in the Big Red Sea ofAustin, Texas, makes me feel a
(21:35):
little bit nervous.
Those places individually arevery safe surrounding areas.
I'm not so sure.
So that's been a little bittough.
And it's also changed since whenI wrote the book, like when I
wrote the book, we were not inthis weird dystopian hellscape
that we're in right now with allthe bullshit happening in
Washington, but like we are now.
(21:55):
And so what does that mean forthis book?
I'm not totally sure.
Jason Blitman (21:58):
Yeah.
In, in any sort of direction,was there something that
surprised you?
Alicia Valenski (22:04):
Oh yeah, for sure.
All over the place.
I would say the biggest one forme was I lived in Spain for a
year.
I was in the South in Seve andabsolutely loved it, but it was
like Catholic as hell.
So I remember being there forSam Santa the Holy Week leading
up to Easter.
Oh my God.
Like.
All of the processionals ofpeople that are not in the K K,
(22:26):
but really look like they're inthe KKK with the tall pointy
white hats super freaky.
And I was like, this place is soreligious.
This is, I'm not religious atall, but like this is wild to
observe.
So in my head I assumed, okay,cool.
So queer thing, probably notsomething I should bring up
while I'm here.
Like the culture was verymachismo at that point.
This is 10 years ago, to befair, but I was just under the
(22:48):
assumption this country as awhole is very religious and this
probably won't be chill here.
Come to find Madrid is likeabsolutely a queer travel
destination that people love.
And specifically theneighborhood of Chica and Madrid
is like known for being supergay friendly.
So it was just me learning.
Not every single city in onecountry they're not, it's not a
(23:11):
monolith, the culture overall.
Jason Blitman (23:12):
Yeah.
Alicia Valenski (23:14):
Of course there are certain places that are
really religious and stilltolerant of the queer community,
and that's great.
But yeah, learning that Madridwas not something that I needed
to be afraid of as a queerperson was great.
Jason Blitman (23:25):
No, that's a very Thoughtful takeaway.
Alicia Valenski (23:28):
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (23:30):
I don't, this is picking a favorite child is upon
finishing the book, there aplace where you're like, oh,
wow, I have to go there next?
Alicia Valenski (23:40):
Yes.
I really wanna go everywhere,obviously, but
Jason Blitman (23:43):
yes, of course we all wanna go everywhere.
But if you had to pick,
Alicia Valenski (23:46):
Exactly.
Jason Blitman (23:47):
three in no particular order that
Alicia Valenski (23:49):
Ooh.
Jason Blitman (23:49):
be fair.
Alicia Valenski (23:50):
Okay.
So for my interestsspecifically, I am like an
indoor cat.
I am like, not usually a veryextroverted type person.
I'm much better one-on-one.
And I am generally just a quietqueer, I'm not looking for
nightclubs.
I basically wrote this book formyself essentially being like, I
cannot go to the parades in theclubs.
What can I do?
So essentially learning thatEdinburgh is like this.
(24:15):
Literary queer city with all ofthis history was super cool.
So that was definitely one thatstruck me as, oh, I bet you I
could spend a lot of time thereexploring everything.
And thankfully I'm having my UKbook launch event there, so
that's happening very soon.
So I'll check that one right offthe list.
Yeah, super stoked about that.
(24:35):
I think too, I haven't done anytravel in, oceania.
I haven't been to New Zealand orAustralia, so I would love to go
to Melbourne and hang out withAurelia and just see everything
that she recommended there.
It seems just like such a, anidyllic, rad place.
There's so much to explore innature.
There's a lot to be done inlike.
(24:55):
All of the different comedyevents and like plays and things
like that too.
So really interestingdestination there.
I think the last one then, forme, I've done a lot of travel in
Latin America, south America,Sao Paulo looks like so much
fun.
I think I've avoided it becauseI speak Spanish and I don't
speak Portuguese and I feelashamed about it, but I think
(25:15):
that we can probably get pastit.
I think it'll be really fun.
Jason Blitman (25:19):
My friend Tiago is from Brazil and he is an avid
gaze reading listener, and Ithink we'll be thrilled to hear
Brazil high up on this list.
And he, I know would be, achampion of visiting as well.
Alicia Valenski (25:34):
Amazing.
Honestly, tell him to read thatchapter because clo the local
person sweetest, angel, baby,love him so much.
Just absolutely excellent humanbeing with great
recommendations.
Jason Blitman (25:44):
a good friend, I have to ask if he's single and
looking and willing to move to
Alicia Valenski (25:48):
Single.
No, but I'm not con, I'm notcertain that he's in like a
closed relationship.
Maybe look him up.
who among us, right?
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (26:02):
You talk about being an indoor cat, an indoor
queer.
I am, were there, I'm also not ahuge nightclub person, and I
think it's hard to even thinkabout what to do.
Alicia Valenski (26:17):
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (26:18):
I know that was like obviously part of why you
created the book, but were therethings that you were
specifically seeking out whereyou're like, oh, what's a great
queer coffee shop, or, oh, likeI, my brain, I like literally
can't think of another place.
So how did you get to those sortof alternative places?
Alicia Valenski (26:32):
So a lot of this came down to the
interviewing, and I think that'swhat I like about this book too,
was like.
I am just naturally verycurious.
And for me, like when I went tojournalism school, my strongest
skill set, aside from writingand editing was the interview
process.
Like I take it very seriously tomake someone feel comfortable
(26:53):
opening up asking questions thatkind of get to the root of
things.
So for me, I would start with,okay, how did you end up where
you are right now?
And so that would be like layingthe base for the story.
How did you decide that thiswould be the place that you
would settle down?
So we would start there.
Then essentially.
Okay.
If you had one day to tellsomeone or show someone as a
tour guide all of your favoritethings, what would that look
(27:16):
like?
I.
Then from there, okay, what ifthey came and they had kids?
What's like a family friendlyoption?
What if they're coming tocelebrate like an anniversary?
What's something romantic?
What if they're like very activeand outdoorsy?
What if they just wanna party?
Like I would just bring up whatif?
Until we got to the end of it.
And so eventually I wouldprobably be like.
I'm an indoor cat.
I like to read and be boring andgo to museums and shit.
(27:39):
What would you recommend forthat?
And then that's how we would getthere.
And then I would essentiallysay, I always liked to end with.
Is there anything that willimmediately tell you that
someone in your city is atourist, and if so, what?
Also, are there any Absolutely.
Do not do this type things inyour destination that people
need to know.
Like in Amsterdam, do not getyour phone out while you're in
(28:01):
the Red Light District because asex worker will throw it into a
canal like, don't do it.
It's illegal.
They won't get in trouble.
You'll just look like an idiot.
That kind of thing.
So yeah, I, that was getting tothe root of everything was what
if different types of travelershave you had, like your parents
visit, what did you do withthem?
Have you had your partner'svisit, friends visit, whatever.
(28:22):
And it was really cool to heareveryone's different ideas for
those.
And I sent them a generaloutline of the questions that I
had in advance so that they hadtime to think about it and
didn't have to rack their brainin the moment.
Jason Blitman (28:33):
Yeah, my question of are there specific
destinations that you would goto go even deeper?
Are there indoor cat places thatare not the typical museums,
plays, et cetera, that you, thatwere surprising to you that are
worth shouting out about?
Alicia Valenski (28:52):
Totally.
So I think a lot of the onesthat I identified to your point,
were like places to get coffee.
So places to get coffee or toget like a light bite places to
walk outside essentially.
So like parks and along likebodies of water.
And then another big one was.
Jason Blitman (29:08):
than any of those things, were you like, oh my
God, I would've never thoughtabout the giant Ferris wheel in
such and such, right?
Just were there, was there likea specific thing where you're
like, what that exists?
Because I think,
Alicia Valenski (29:20):
Interesting.
Jason Blitman (29:21):
Know that those are things, right?
But where you're like, oh myGod, I didn't even know.
I I didn't know that Merabexisted,
Alicia Valenski (29:28):
Yes.
I was just gonna say I would askare there performance spaces
that are not specifically formusic?
So like spoken word or anythinglike that?
Those would be questions.
'cause people, even if theydon't go to them, they usually
know what they are and that theyexist.
That I would usually ask aboutcomedy.
'cause that's one thing I doreally enjoy as a comedy show.
I often asked about drag, whichit's a.
(29:48):
Like a middle ground betweengoing clubbing and being an
indoor cat like you are sittingand watching.
You don't have to participate ifyou don't want to for the most
part.
And then for me, I would almostalways ask about like bookshops
and board game related places.
So there's a board game bar inAmsterdam that we love, that I
would be like, if that existedother places, I would love that.
(30:10):
So a lot of those types ofthings.
I think the biggest surprise forme was learning that in
Australia, they have like bigthings as like a, an attraction
on driving around.
So like the giant tennis ball orlike a giant like fish and
they're just, they'reattractions to get you to road
trip around the country insteadof flying.
(30:31):
That was one that I'm like,that's rad, but super weird.
Jason Blitman (30:34):
we oddly have that in the United States too.
Alicia Valenski (30:37):
What?
Jason Blitman (30:38):
Yeah.
So I used to work for thiscompany that toured shows for
kids around the country, and itwas these professional actors
and they would like literallydrive in a van around the
country and they would stop atlike the world's largest ball of
twine.
Alicia Valenski (30:56):
Oh
Jason Blitman (30:56):
largest mailbox.
Yeah.
Like those are
Alicia Valenski (31:01):
Incredible.
I love that it feels likesomething from the bygone era
where like we all really caredabout Guinness World Records.
That feels like it's leftoverfrom then.
Yeah,
Jason Blitman (31:11):
What happened to those?
Alicia Valenski (31:12):
I don't know.
No one cares anymore.
I don't know.
Like I, it's still in my bucketlist to get one, but I have no
idea what the hell it would beat this point.
They must all be achieved.
Jason Blitman (31:23):
I doubt it.
Alicia Valenski (31:24):
What?
I'm gonna grow my fingernailslonger than that one guy.
That's absolutely not.
Jason Blitman (31:28):
unrelated
Alicia Valenski (31:30):
You just make something up.
Jason Blitman (31:31):
yeah.
Alicia Valenski (31:33):
You don't think we've reached the limits of
human creativity?
I worry about that sometimes.
Jason Blitman (31:38):
What?
I don't know.
There's
Alicia Valenski (31:39):
Sorry, that got dark really fast.
Jason Blitman (31:40):
no, the person, like the person who wore clown
makeup the longest, like
Alicia Valenski (31:45):
True.
It might though.
That's my problem.
This is my issue.
Jason Blitman (31:49):
but did they reach out to Guinness?
Probably not.
Alicia Valenski (31:51):
Okay.
Fair.
That's a fair point.
I just worry we're all justmonkeys at typewriters and
Shakespeare is coming outsomewhere.
Like somebody might have thoughtof that because you thought of
that.
It's like that awful rule withporn rule of 34.
If you can think of it to sayout loud, it exists.
Jason Blitman (32:07):
tell me more.
What is that?
Alicia Valenski (32:09):
I don't know where it, why am I here?
Yeah, it's, I.
Jason Blitman (32:14):
here.
You talk about the 34 rules ofporn, and I'll hold up your book
so that it feels relevant.
Alicia Valenski (32:20):
Perfect.
Thank you.
So as you know of course I don'teven know where this originated,
but it's called the Rule of th34.
If you look it up, it basicallysays, it's like one of those
principles, like anything thatcan go wrong, will go wrong.
Murphy's Law.
So rule of 34 is if you have thethought, do you think porn
exists for insert topic?
(32:41):
If you have the thought itexists.
Jason Blitman (32:43):
does.
Alicia Valenski (32:44):
And working in SEO can confirm.
Gross.
Everyone is so gross on theinternet.
It's awful.
Jason Blitman (32:51):
Let's not shame people.
They're not gross.
They're, curious.
Alicia Valenski (32:54):
no.
Sometimes it's like murder porn.
I get really sad.
Jason Blitman (32:57):
yeah.
If it's illegal or
Alicia Valenski (33:00):
I'm not gonna kink shame.
I'm not here to yuck anyone'syum, but like maybe not murder.
Jason Blitman (33:05):
Yeah.
Let's not murder.
Alicia Valenski (33:08):
I'm glad we agree.
Jason Blitman (33:09):
SEO What is like the craziest thing that you've
discovered?
Alicia Valenski (33:12):
Oh God.
It's all either sad or gross.
The, it's really just, oh, no.
Plenty of exciting things.
I would say a, just that mostsearches are NSFW.
B, Sometimes it's really dark,like you have to consider, most
people aren't thinking about thefact that down the line someone
can see their search queries notassociated with them, but there
(33:35):
is a database of this query hasbeen searched this many times
overall and on average permonth.
It's searched this many timesand it's sometimes really sad,
like.
How to kill yourself was one ofthe hardest days I had.
I was like looking up somethingcompletely unrelated and I was
like, oh no, this makes me sosad that this exists.
(33:55):
But like other times I'm lookingup like something about family
relationships and it's likestepmom porn, and you're like,
no, stop.
I didn't say that.
Why are we talking about thatnow?
Or like stepsister and stepmomtogether.
Like what?
No, stop.
Jason Blitman (34:13):
Again, not yucking, anyone's yum, but
Alicia Valenski (34:17):
We've all seen clue.
Jason Blitman (34:18):
Oh my God.
Yeah, I've seen, I saw somethingon Instagram the other day and
it was a screenshot of one ofthose like Google dropdown
things where it, starts and thenyou see what the next 10 are or
whatever, and it was how toconvert to, and it was like
Christianity, Judaism, Islam, APDF, and then more religions.
Alicia Valenski (34:38):
Yes, truly.
And it's like all thesequestions that you've never ever
thought of.
Like when I used to work at TheSkim and I was doing their SEO
and we were trying to informlike our wellness section.
It was stuff like, what is mylike period, blood being this
color mean, like stuff that youwould not think about.
But yeah, of course people aresearching that'cause what are
(34:59):
they gonna go talk to theirdoctors without Googling at
first?
Like of course not.
So it's really fascinating and Ithink that's part of why I like
doing it for a day job.
But yeah, the inside of people'sminds exist in SEO data.
Jason Blitman (35:13):
We're not here for a brainstorming session.
However, the book of the likeweirdest searches and answers I
would totally read.
Alicia Valenski (35:23):
that's a really good idea.
I should bring that up.
Ooh, thank you.
Thank you for this gift thatyou've given me.
Honestly, that
Jason Blitman (35:31):
welcome.
Alicia Valenski (35:32):
was part of why I wanted to call this book.
The L-G-B-T-Q Travel Guide, ifwe're being real, is like SEO O
values.
Jason Blitman (35:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
I was actually just gonna sayto, loop it back to the book.
If L-G-B-T-Q travel Guide is aperfect thing to search.
But I don't know.
I was gonna try to come up witha clever like search metaphor.
It's gone.
It's
Alicia Valenski (35:57):
I wanted to call it eat gay love.
It was already taken, like everyfun thing I thought of, somebody
was like, no.
And I was like, fine, we'll doSEO.
No, I love it.
It worked out perfectly.
But yeah, the the world of gaybooks, most of the fun puns have
been taken, so I'm gonna have tokeep thinking
Jason Blitman (36:14):
Around the world with 80 gays though,
Alicia Valenski (36:17):
right.
Jason Blitman (36:17):
pretty good.
Pretty
Alicia Valenski (36:18):
Even 30 something for this book was so
much to coordinate for my A DHDass.
I don't think I could have done80.
It would've been insane.
Jason Blitman (36:26):
I know I cannot wait to like, continue to sit
down and flip through it.
Like I said, it is digestible.
It is beautiful.
It is succinct.
And we all need it.
Alicia Valenski (36:37):
I think so too.
I'm so glad you love it.
Fun little fact.
If you look at it from the side,each of the main profiles is a
different color, so it lookslike a little rainbow.
Jason Blitman (36:46):
Yes it does.
Oh my god,
Alicia Valenski (36:47):
Yet also all the people on the cover are
people interviewed in the book.
Fun fact for that as well.
Jason Blitman (36:53):
I was also just gonna say at the very least,
even if you, let's say you hatetraveling, which, that's a
different conversation.
It is.
This book is such a great timecapsule of queer community and
queer life at this time in theworld.
And I think that in and ofitself makes for a very special
(37:14):
experience.
Thank you for sharing it withus.
Alicia Valenski (37:17):
Thank you.
I really appreciate you.
Getting what is special aboutthis book and also just sharing
your emotional response to it.
It's the most rewarding thingfor me.
Like I should probably careabout sales.
That's probably true, but reallyI care about people telling me
how they feel about this bookand like the response being so
emotionally driven and socommunity focused has just been
(37:41):
so uplifting, especially in atime where everything feels like
it's on fire.
Just what a joy to watch thisunfold.
So I hope everyone will read itand love it.
Jason Blitman (37:49):
Yes.
Thank you for sharing how atravel book comes to be.
I think it's so fascinatingbecause I certainly had no idea.
But also I hope that people A,travel to these places and b
remember to treat people withkindness and empathy and all the
things that we need in thismoment.
And I think the book also reallyhighlights and share some of
(38:10):
that too.
So
Alicia Valenski (38:11):
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate this, andalso I'm so excited.
To see how this episode turnsout'cause we went down a lot of
twists and turns.
Jason Blitman (38:19):
Me too.
Alright.
Alicia Valinsky, thank you somuch for being here.
The lgbtq plus Travel Guide fromLonely Planet available now.
Wherever you get your books, Ican't wait for you to check it
out.
Hello and welcome to GazeReading and this episode of
Spill the Tea, where today I amspilling the tea on lgbtq plus
travel with Alicia Valenski, whowrote Lonely Planets LGBTQ Plus
Travel Guide.
As always, if you like whatyou're hearing, please share us
with your friends.
You could follow us on socialmedia at Gays Reading.
(00:21):
You could watch this episodeover on YouTube.
We're on Blue Sky, we are onInstagram or all over the place,
If you are so inclined, leave usa five star review wherever you
get your podcasts.
We've had some fantasticepisodes in the last couple of
weeks, so make sure to checkthose out if you are new to us,
if you've already listened.
Fantastic.
Thank you so much for listening,And all that being said, please
(00:44):
enjoy my conversation withAlicia Valenski.
Jason Blitman (00:48):
So Valinski.
Let's get into it the lgbtq plustravel guide interviews,
itineraries and inspiration fromQueer Insiders in 50 plus proud
places.
Alicia Valenski (01:02):
Yes, that is my book.
Jason Blitman (01:03):
alliteration.
Alicia Valenski (01:04):
Yes.
That's honestly probably one ofmy Achilles heels as a writer.
But yes, we do.
Jason Blitman (01:10):
Fantastic.
Can you elaborate a bit more asto what this book really is?
Alicia Valenski (01:16):
Totally.
So originally I went to myliterary agent with the idea for
a book that I wanted to callaround the world with 80 gays.
She said, no.
You cannot write that book.
However, I do think that there'sa kernel of something really
interesting in there, which isinterviewing queer people around
the world about where they liveand what makes it a good
(01:38):
destination to visit if you're aqueer traveler.
So we workshopped the concept abit, and essentially this is a
community driven guide.
So I.
Absolutely did not want this tobe like, oh my God.
Like, Bye girl.
Gives you her suggestions forplaces around the world like
Honey?
No.
So I wanted it to berepresentative of the community.
I wanted there to be like gaycouples and lesbians and every
(02:01):
identity under the sun.
I wanted it to be different agesand different ethnicities and
just as inclusive and diverse aspossible to really be more
representative of what is itlike to exist as a queer person
in this cultural moment?
2024 specifically was when I waswriting the bulk of this, and
then in these differentdestinations, what do these
people actually do?
(02:21):
Not when is the pride paradenot, where are the clubs?
What would somebody who liveshere actually do?
If you visited them and you werelike, Hey, I've never been here
before and I'm queer, whereshould I go?
What would they personally tellyou?
What are their personal like?
Tried and true recommendations.
And so that was how it allhappened.
And it just became this reallybeautiful compendium of
(02:43):
interviews.
And it's not just their travelrecommendations, right?
It's like people's stories, likeAngina heals telling me like I
was overweight as a child and Iwas bullied.
So now I like drag saved my lifeand it healed me.
So I wanna heal other people.
And I'm like, but also, where doI get good Thai food?
And she's I can tell you thattoo.
Jason Blitman (03:00):
Yeah.
And that's something that I wasjust gonna say.
You're not just getting a list,you're getting people's real
stories about this is who I am,this is where I'm from, this is
why, or this is where I live.
This is why I love this place.
What was the moment for youwhere you were like, we need
this thing.
Alicia Valenski (03:17):
So I.
For me, as I've alluded to, I ama neurodivergent person, so I
have this weird thing where Ihave to try to balance my A DHD
and my autism.
And my autism is like, Hey, weneed to give as much.
I.
Clear information as conciselyas possible.
This needs to be super useful.
(03:38):
Like they need to be able toplan a trip from this.
And then my A DH ADHD is like,but people's stories and
distractions and look at thepretty pictures and let's make
this really nice.
And so for me, I needed tosatisfy both of those sides and
I had to satisfy my anxiety withthe whole section on what to do
in case of emergency.
What are the numbers you cancontact for your safety around
the world?
Like this needed to bepractical.
(04:02):
But in addition to beingpractical and obviously touching
on safety, I wanted it to becelebratory.
I wanted it to be queer joybecause like we know we're in
danger all the time.
Like we know that there areplaces that we could get fined
or jailed or murdered forliterally existing.
We know that like we have totouch on it eventually, but it
does not need to be this entirebook.
(04:22):
So focusing on people andfocusing on their communities
and what makes them amazing wassuch a like positive tone shift.
I think for me, working withLonely Planet was such a joy
because this is just notsomething like anything they've
done before.
This was not a, it's not acoffee table book, and it's not
a guidebook, but it's got partsof both to your point.
(04:43):
And so it really became its owncategory.
Like I, I don't quite know howit happened other than I was
really adamant in arguing fordifferent parts of this book
that needed to exist and for theway that it should exist and.
It's a real choose your ownadventure.
'cause it's okay, do I know thatI just wanna go to islands?
So I'm gonna go to the inclusiveIsland Escapes section.
(05:05):
Do I just wanna read people'sstories and know that maybe I'm
gonna be drawn to Europe?
I could start there.
Like you can go wherever youwant to begin this book.
It doesn't have to be read fromstart to finish.
So I don't think I answered yourquestion, but it's just, it's
been absolutely nuts and such adelight and so exciting to see
people's response.
Jason Blitman (05:23):
It's also not overwhelming.
And that's, it's like you, youlook for a recipe online and you
have to read through pages andpages of a story before you get
to the actual recipe.
You're, when you talk aboutpeople are sharing their stories
in this book, I wanna be veryclear that it's not pages and
pages of a story that then it'sfinally you get to their
(05:44):
recommendations.
No, it's like nice and succinct,but also very meaningful.
So will share that as I wasreading the book or I didn't, my
A DHD didn't let me sit down andread the whole book because of
all the pictures, because of allthe places, because of all the
titles.
But as I was flipping through, Iwas getting emotional because I
(06:04):
didn't know that I needed this.
And you said, I don't know thatI answered your question.
That for me, the, I, I didn'teven know that this was a book
that I needed.
Was there a moment, were youtraveling somewhere?
Were you trying to put togetheran itinerary for yourself where
you were like, I need aresource, but that doesn't
exist.
Was there, did you have thatlight bulb moment?
Alicia Valenski (06:26):
So essentially I think it started with my own
experience moving to Amsterdambecause so many people would
come visit me and the way that Iwould give them my
recommendations.
Again, my A DHD, I cannot givesomeone just like a bullet
pointed list.
I have to say so many things,all the fucking time.
Like I just cannot shut up forone second.
So I would lead in with a littlebit of context and then be like,
(06:49):
okay, but.
Let me bold the points ofinterest so that if they wanna
skim this, they can find thatreally easily.
And like maybe I should includea map of the information in case
they wanna view it that way.
Maybe I should include somelinks of things.
Maybe I should include picturesso they don't get bored.
This is me just creating like aguest room book for my own
apartment in Amsterdam, beinglike, you came to visit us now
(07:09):
what?
Here's where to go forbreakfast, here's where to go
for whatever.
This is just, this book is howmy brain works.
And to be fair, notneurotypical.
So I'm glad it's resonating withpeople, but I think it's just
truly a shift of how youapproach travel recommendations.
It doesn't have to be a bulletedlist.
It doesn't have to be like superin depth.
(07:30):
It can be information andstorytelling.
It's like I could never learnhistory in school, but the
moment that I read like aliterary version of historical
fiction, it was like, oh, I getit.
This is what happened with theBoin sisters.
Got it.
Jason Blitman (07:42):
No, exactly.
I wanna pull up my own email.
Oh, I have an Amsterdam email.
That I put together after I wasin Amsterdam,'cause a friend was
going right after me.
similarly, I have links and Ihave like descriptions of why,
and even I even have, I talkabout how Amsterdam is known for
(08:04):
their Indonesian food and I linkto a restaurant that has since
closed.
But I was like, but it'simportant for you to know that
this exists because go findsomething that's similar to
this.
'cause it was such a.
Alicia Valenski (08:16):
The Indonesian food and the ESE food, like
that's such a goodrecommendation.
It's really sorry, go look upwho was colonized by the country
that you're visiting and theirfood is gonna be really good in
the place that you're visiting,which is so fucked.
But also go patronize thosebusinesses.
Support them.
Yeah, it makes total sense.
Jason Blitman (08:33):
But it's just so fun hearing how you are
describing the origins of this,because that deeply speaks to
me.
Alicia Valenski (08:39):
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (08:39):
Let's back up a tiny bit.
You talked about your experienceworking with Lonely Planet and
how they've never done anythinglike this before.
I think so many people, I assumeanyone who has traveled places
thinks I wanna write a travelbook, I wanna be a travel guide.
I want, or they go eat in at anice restaurant, I wanna be a
food critic.
There are these sort offabulous.
(09:01):
I don't wanna say over the topcareer aspirations, but there
are, it's such a nicheopportunity that people are
like, I want to do this thing.
It sounds so novel and exciting.
What was that process like foryou?
What was it like working withLonely, lonely Planet?
What was it like writing afreaking travel guide,
Alicia Valenski (09:18):
absolutely wild.
So first I got.
So incredibly lucky with everystep of this.
Like I don't wanna be the personwho's oh, I just got lucky.
I, of course, also think thatI'm very talented and did a good
job at this, but more so thanthat.
Like I got very lucky that I waspitching this at a time when
Lonely Planet was.
Already thinking about wantingmore L-G-B-T-Q content and
(09:42):
reaching out to them, havingthem be like, oh my God, we're
so interested in this.
Let us set up an interview.
Like I spent a lot of time withmy agent building out the
proposal and really fine tuningit, making sure that it had like
the appropriate demographicinformation, the appropriate
comparative titles.
Like why should this book bewritten by specifically you
(10:02):
specifically now, specificallyfor us?
We didn't just pitch to LonelyPlanet, we pitched to a bunch of
different publishers, andultimately, the vision that
Lonely Planet had for the bookand the offer that they were
able to present was just soincredibly compelling.
I couldn't have dreamed thatwould even be a possibility.
Like I'm writing this proposalthinking, I hope someone picks
(10:22):
it up.
If not, I guess I canself-publish and then it's like
lonely fucking planet.
So it's crazy.
Absolutely crazy.
But then in addition to gettingthe offer and starting the work
to work with such an amazingeditor, Becca at Lonely Planet
is so phenomenal, so thoughtful.
She just makes everything shine.
The designer, Emily, is thereason that the book is so
(10:44):
freaking beautiful.
Every person I interviewed iswhy the book is interesting.
So I'm certainly not doing thatself-deprecating thing of it was
everyone else.
It wasn't me.
It was definitely also me andlogistics of this was a
nightmare to pay everyone, getcontracts signed and whatever,
but.
Jason Blitman (10:58):
Sure.
But it does take a team to put abook together like this.
Alicia Valenski (11:00):
It's not just me by any means, and then
there's like the sales andmarketing team and the PR team.
Like it takes a village to put abook into the world.
It has been a dream, and I,since I was a child, wanted to
be an author.
Once I was an older child, Iwanted to be Anthony Bourdain.
This was kind of me going downthat route, and it's just been
(11:21):
surreal.
It's been so cool.
Jason Blitman (11:23):
What was, you said you had to answer the
questions, why me?
Why now?
Why this, why?
Ones that you rattled off that Iremember.
You you shared little nuggets ofthat earlier on in this
conversation.
Can you unpack that a tiny bitmore?
Alicia Valenski (11:39):
Let me back up.
Now, my day job that is nottravel writing, which has long
been my side hustle, is an SEO.
So I have worked in searchengine optimization, which makes
sense as a travel writer,'causeI can get eyeballs on my work
also.
It's really rad.
But looking yeah, of course.
Honestly, like I'm available forwork, anybody but truly it was
(12:01):
very obvious to me in doing theresearch for this book proposal,
there just are not as manyresources as you would think for
queer travel online and thesearch interest in it versus the
results that there are for thosequeries just don't match.
And essentially the way that Iphrased it in the proposal is.
(12:21):
This is like a hole in theinternet that's really a hole in
our cultural fabric.
Like, why are we notprioritizing content for this
community?
Why are we not making it asaccessible as possible?
Why are we not talking aboutanything other than the fact of
these places are dangerous forqueer travel, or these places
have a pride parade sponsored byHeineken.
Like it, it's always likecorporate sponsored and rainbow
(12:44):
washed or.
It's really fear mon, so whydon't we have something in
between?
And that was the big thing forme was this is a community that
deserves to feel just as welcomearound the world as any other
community, and we should beenabling that to happen.
Jason Blitman (13:01):
You said Lonely Planet didn't really have a lot
in this space, did they?
do they have a standardpractice?
Do they, they've obviouslythey've created many travel
guides, can you share a little,is there inside scoop of how the
lonely planet specific processworks?
And then how did that, how didthe sort of marriage, how did
(13:24):
the gay marriage work?
Alicia Valenski (13:26):
Yeah.
So I will say in a traditionalguidebook that's like
destination driven, there'salmost always a section
somewhere in the book thataddresses L-G-B-T-Q culture and
has recommendations in thatspace.
So that exists.
I.
But it wasn't a thing thatexisted the other way around.
It was like you had to have thedestination first, and then
there might be a section aboutit.
(13:46):
Also had content on web that wasbased on L-G-B-T-Q travel, but
they didn't really have iteverywhere, so it was piecemeal.
So it seems and I'm gonnaassume.
I should really check with my PRpeople before I give these
answers.
I'm gonna assume that thepandemic also probably impacted
the speed at which Lonely Planetwas able to pick this up as a
(14:07):
priority.
So I think if I had to guess,they were probably ready for
this to be a thing in 2020 andthen everything shut down and
panic.
So then for me to approach themin 20 23, 20 24 and be like, I'm
ready to write this book, andhere's how I envision it and
here's why it's completelydifferent from everything else
on the market.
(14:28):
It was a really good time forthem to pick it up and they were
really.
Intentional and they cared alot.
Like this team really deeplycared about this being a
resource for this community.
And I'm so grateful for thatbecause they could have just
been like, hell yeah, we knowthose queer people have deep
pockets.
Let's go.
Like they could have just beenlike totally money grubby, but
they weren't.
They wanted this to be reallythoughtfully put together.
(14:51):
And I think that shows.
Jason Blitman (14:53):
Did they have, I don't wanna use the word
influence'cause that soundsaggressive, but were there
cities or countries that wereimportant to them to include
because of whatever reason?
Alicia Valenski (15:04):
Super good question.
No.
And so the interesting thing is,and I think this was probably
the scariest part for LonelyPlanet, was in my proposal, I
did not give destinations.
I was like, here's what theycould be maybe, but this was
people first.
I found the people then thatinformed the destinations that
were featured.
(15:24):
So I had this whole group ofpeople that I'm like, I have
either followed this person'swork for a long time, or I've
heard a lot about them, or I'veseen them in different places,
and I think that I can trustthem to have good travel
recommendations as a queerperson.
And I think that they have theauthority to speak on this
topic.
(15:44):
And then I basically reached outand was like, hi, I'm doing this
project and I would love tofeature you for this
destination.
Would you wanna work together?
I can pay you a little bit.
And then basically, I either gota yes or a no from everyone, and
that's how the table of contentsgot built out.
So it was very much.
I want it to be the right peoplefirst, more so than the
destinations.
Thankfully, it worked outbeautifully.
(16:05):
There are some reallyinteresting destinations in that
list, and it's not just New Yorkand London, although they both
are in there.
It's also like Richmond,Virginia and Edinburgh,
Scotland, and all thesedifferent places that I don't
think are the first to come tomind for people when they think
of queer travel, which wasreally cool.
Jason Blitman (16:23):
is where I just opened the book to
Alicia Valenski (16:25):
Yeah, there you go.
Jason Blitman (16:26):
things I wouldn't have thought I.
Alicia Valenski (16:29):
SGA Tuck Douglas in Michigan.
It's if Gilmore Girls was on thelake, it's so weird.
But it's like a gay mecca.
Jason Blitman (16:37):
Fascinating.
I
Alicia Valenski (16:39):
Yeah,
Jason Blitman (16:39):
many where I was that's where the A DH ADHD
kicked in.
I was like, what's this place Iwanna,
Alicia Valenski (16:44):
All the pictures, I'm like, I wanna go
there.
Yeah, of course.
Jason Blitman (16:47):
I know.
Was there any, like this led tothat this person led to that
person situation?
Alicia Valenski (16:53):
Oh hundred percent.
So honestly, once I got a yesfrom I.
Two different groups within thequeer community.
Once I got a yes from the queerNomads lesbian couple in London,
all the other lesbian couples orqueer women that I reached out
to were like, oh yeah, ifthey're on board, we're on
board.
On the other side, it was likeonce I had two bad tourists in
(17:15):
Madrid and I had couple of menin.
Amsterdam, everyone was like, ohyeah, we all know them.
If they're involved, this isprobably fine.
So it was really like buildingup those initial contexts.
But then some were likecompletely unrelated and unaware
of everything.
Like it's not a book full ofinfluencers.
There's like a queer bookshopowner, there's a queer activist
from Malta who's like works inpolitics.
(17:37):
There's just people all over themap.
And I wanted it to,
Jason Blitman (17:40):
people that you from Instagram or stumbled upon
on Instagram or social media orthe internet or
Alicia Valenski (17:48):
and that word of mouth situation, right?
So many queer people.
And this is in the forward fromthe book, which Paula Achman
wrote, and she and I worked forthe same publication like many
moons ago.
But she says word of mouthreally is how this was spread
for such a long time.
It was the only way that wecould find information that was,
Jason Blitman (18:05):
Yeah.
Alicia Valenski (18:06):
and so the recommendations that I got from
the initial people I spoke to.
Informed the little dominoeffect, so it was really
interesting.
My favorite was that when I wasthinking about Thailand,
especially as they werelegalizing same-sex marriage, I
was like, it would be so cool ifI could have the RuPaul of
Thailand vagina heels, but thatwould never happen.
I reached out to the Thaitourism Board to be like, who
(18:27):
would you like to see featured?
I'm not as familiar with thismarket, and they fucking
connected me with pan heels.
And I was like, this is insanethat this was your
recommendation.
I love this.
Thank you.
Can I be a guest judge on DragRace, please?
Jason Blitman (18:40):
Seriously.
Alicia Valenski (18:41):
My God,
Jason Blitman (18:42):
a hug when you go
Alicia Valenski (18:43):
yeah.
Honestly can I be in RuPaul'spresence?
That'd be cool.
But Pina now will send me likelittle voice memos and be like,
just wanted to say thank youagain for including me in the
book.
Like really so thrilled to be apart of this project.
I'm like, girl, you could havebeen so snobby and standoffish
with me and I would've had noproblem with it, but like why
are you also the sweetest, mosthumble baby?
(19:04):
I love this.
Jason Blitman (19:05):
That's so fun.
Alicia Valenski (19:07):
It's
Jason Blitman (19:07):
Are there any places that you needed to cut
from the book?
Alicia Valenski (19:11):
amazing to cut from the book.
No, thankfully there were placesI was never gonna include in the
first place.
I would never put like SaudiArabia or like Yemen because
it's like we would literally getmurdered if we went there.
No.
I will say I had the toughesttime including I wanted to
include as many differentlocations as possible, of
course, and be like widespreadthroughout the world.
(19:31):
But there is still a lot ofcontention around queer rights
in a lot of countries in Africaand in a lot of countries in
Asia.
So it was a little bit harderto.
How can I put it?
I want to include those spaces,but not at the peril of the
reader.
So that was ultimately what Iwas thinking was like.
Even if there is like a reallytight-knit subculture of a queer
(19:52):
community here, if overall thesentiment in that country is
negative toward the L-G-B-T-Qcommunity, then I don't feel
safe sending you there.
'cause I want you to be safe.
So that was a little bitchallenging.
So I was so grateful to be ableto include Cape Town and
Johannesburg and South Africa.
I was so grateful to be able toinclude Bangkok in Thailand.
There's a bunch of otherdestinations that are included
(20:13):
in kind of the hit list of likeadrenaline pumping adventures
and like those family friendlyfestivities, all of those we got
to be a little bit moreinclusive in that section, but
for the main profiles we were alittle bit more limited, I would
say to people who felt reallycomfortable recommending their
destination.
And even in Cape Town, Lya says,I don't know that Cape Town is
(20:34):
the most queer friendly, but itis beautiful and worth visiting.
I think you should go toJohannesburg while you're there.
'cause that's where you're gonnafind queer community.
So it's like the combination ofthem and being so transparent
and for real with the reader.
It's like an influencer.
If they're like, oh my God, goto this restaurant.
It's amazing.
And you go there and it sucksbecause they just got paid to
say that, no, you don't wantthat.
So I wanted this to be theantithesis.
(20:56):
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (20:56):
them.
Were there places where, youtalk about Yemen, like I think,
I don't wanna say that's quoteunquote obvious, but I think
there are places that are top ofmind, places that we might not
want to ever visit.
Were there places that youdidn't think that and it
surprised you?
Alicia Valenski (21:15):
This is maybe a little bit dark, but the US at
this point, I feel a little bitweird about.
I know, sorry.
But at this point, the only onesthat I'm like, shit now I'm a
little bit nervous, I am tellingpeople to go to the former
capital of the Confederacy,Richmond, Virginia, or to go to
Tiny blue.in the Big Red Sea ofAustin, Texas, makes me feel a
(21:35):
little bit nervous.
Those places individually arevery safe surrounding areas.
I'm not so sure.
So that's been a little bittough.
And it's also changed since whenI wrote the book, like when I
wrote the book, we were not inthis weird dystopian hellscape
that we're in right now with allthe bullshit happening in
Washington, but like we are now.
(21:55):
And so what does that mean forthis book?
I'm not totally sure.
Jason Blitman (21:58):
Yeah.
In, in any sort of direction,was there something that
surprised you?
Alicia Valenski (22:04):
Oh yeah, for sure.
All over the place.
I would say the biggest one forme was I lived in Spain for a
year.
I was in the South in Seve andabsolutely loved it, but it was
like Catholic as hell.
So I remember being there forSam Santa the Holy Week leading
up to Easter.
Oh my God.
Like.
All of the processionals ofpeople that are not in the K K,
(22:26):
but really look like they're inthe KKK with the tall pointy
white hats super freaky.
And I was like, this place is soreligious.
This is, I'm not religious atall, but like this is wild to
observe.
So in my head I assumed, okay,cool.
So queer thing, probably notsomething I should bring up
while I'm here.
Like the culture was verymachismo at that point.
This is 10 years ago, to befair, but I was just under the
(22:48):
assumption this country as awhole is very religious and this
probably won't be chill here.
Come to find Madrid is likeabsolutely a queer travel
destination that people love.
And specifically theneighborhood of Chica and Madrid
is like known for being supergay friendly.
So it was just me learning.
Not every single city in onecountry they're not, it's not a
(23:11):
monolith, the culture overall.
Jason Blitman (23:12):
Yeah.
Alicia Valenski (23:14):
Of course there are certain places that are
really religious and stilltolerant of the queer community,
and that's great.
But yeah, learning that Madridwas not something that I needed
to be afraid of as a queerperson was great.
Jason Blitman (23:25):
No, that's a very Thoughtful takeaway.
Alicia Valenski (23:28):
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (23:30):
I don't, this is picking a favorite child is upon
finishing the book, there aplace where you're like, oh,
wow, I have to go there next?
Alicia Valenski (23:40):
Yes.
I really wanna go everywhere,obviously, but
Jason Blitman (23:43):
yes, of course we all wanna go everywhere.
But if you had to pick,
Alicia Valenski (23:46):
Exactly.
Jason Blitman (23:47):
three in no particular order that
Alicia Valenski (23:49):
Ooh.
Jason Blitman (23:49):
be fair.
Alicia Valenski (23:50):
Okay.
So for my interestsspecifically, I am like an
indoor cat.
I am like, not usually a veryextroverted type person.
I'm much better one-on-one.
And I am generally just a quietqueer, I'm not looking for
nightclubs.
I basically wrote this book formyself essentially being like, I
cannot go to the parades in theclubs.
What can I do?
So essentially learning thatEdinburgh is like this.
(24:15):
Literary queer city with all ofthis history was super cool.
So that was definitely one thatstruck me as, oh, I bet you I
could spend a lot of time thereexploring everything.
And thankfully I'm having my UKbook launch event there, so
that's happening very soon.
So I'll check that one right offthe list.
Yeah, super stoked about that.
(24:35):
I think too, I haven't done anytravel in, oceania.
I haven't been to New Zealand orAustralia, so I would love to go
to Melbourne and hang out withAurelia and just see everything
that she recommended there.
It seems just like such a, anidyllic, rad place.
There's so much to explore innature.
There's a lot to be done inlike.
(24:55):
All of the different comedyevents and like plays and things
like that too.
So really interestingdestination there.
I think the last one then, forme, I've done a lot of travel in
Latin America, south America,Sao Paulo looks like so much
fun.
I think I've avoided it becauseI speak Spanish and I don't
speak Portuguese and I feelashamed about it, but I think
(25:15):
that we can probably get pastit.
I think it'll be really fun.
Jason Blitman (25:19):
My friend Tiago is from Brazil and he is an avid
gaze reading listener, and Ithink we'll be thrilled to hear
Brazil high up on this list.
And he, I know would be, achampion of visiting as well.
Alicia Valenski (25:34):
Amazing.
Honestly, tell him to read thatchapter because clo the local
person sweetest, angel, baby,love him so much.
Just absolutely excellent humanbeing with great
recommendations.
Jason Blitman (25:44):
a good friend, I have to ask if he's single and
looking and willing to move to
Alicia Valenski (25:48):
Single.
No, but I'm not con, I'm notcertain that he's in like a
closed relationship.
Maybe look him up.
who among us, right?
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (26:02):
You talk about being an indoor cat, an indoor
queer.
I am, were there, I'm also not ahuge nightclub person, and I
think it's hard to even thinkabout what to do.
Alicia Valenski (26:17):
Yeah.
Jason Blitman (26:18):
I know that was like obviously part of why you
created the book, but were therethings that you were
specifically seeking out whereyou're like, oh, what's a great
queer coffee shop, or, oh, likeI, my brain, I like literally
can't think of another place.
So how did you get to those sortof alternative places?
Alicia Valenski (26:32):
So a lot of this came down to the
interviewing, and I think that'swhat I like about this book too,
was like.
I am just naturally verycurious.
And for me, like when I went tojournalism school, my strongest
skill set, aside from writingand editing was the interview
process.
Like I take it very seriously tomake someone feel comfortable
(26:53):
opening up asking questions thatkind of get to the root of
things.
So for me, I would start with,okay, how did you end up where
you are right now?
And so that would be like layingthe base for the story.
How did you decide that thiswould be the place that you
would settle down?
So we would start there.
Then essentially.
Okay.
If you had one day to tellsomeone or show someone as a
tour guide all of your favoritethings, what would that look
(27:16):
like?
I.
Then from there, okay, what ifthey came and they had kids?
What's like a family friendlyoption?
What if they're coming tocelebrate like an anniversary?
What's something romantic?
What if they're like very activeand outdoorsy?
What if they just wanna party?
Like I would just bring up whatif?
Until we got to the end of it.
And so eventually I wouldprobably be like.
I'm an indoor cat.
I like to read and be boring andgo to museums and shit.
(27:39):
What would you recommend forthat?
And then that's how we would getthere.
And then I would essentiallysay, I always liked to end with.
Is there anything that willimmediately tell you that
someone in your city is atourist, and if so, what?
Also, are there any Absolutely.
Do not do this type things inyour destination that people
need to know.
Like in Amsterdam, do not getyour phone out while you're in
(28:01):
the Red Light District because asex worker will throw it into a
canal like, don't do it.
It's illegal.
They won't get in trouble.
You'll just look like an idiot.
That kind of thing.
So yeah, I, that was getting tothe root of everything was what
if different types of travelershave you had, like your parents
visit, what did you do withthem?
Have you had your partner'svisit, friends visit, whatever.
(28:22):
And it was really cool to heareveryone's different ideas for
those.
And I sent them a generaloutline of the questions that I
had in advance so that they hadtime to think about it and
didn't have to rack their brainin the moment.
Jason Blitman (28:33):
Yeah, my question of are there specific
destinations that you would goto go even deeper?
Are there indoor cat places thatare not the typical museums,
plays, et cetera, that you, thatwere surprising to you that are
worth shouting out about?
Alicia Valenski (28:52):
Totally.
So I think a lot of the onesthat I identified to your point,
were like places to get coffee.
So places to get coffee or toget like a light bite places to
walk outside essentially.
So like parks and along likebodies of water.
And then another big one was.
Jason Blitman (29:08):
than any of those things, were you like, oh my
God, I would've never thoughtabout the giant Ferris wheel in
such and such, right?
Just were there, was there likea specific thing where you're
like, what that exists?
Because I think,
Alicia Valenski (29:20):
Interesting.
Jason Blitman (29:21):
Know that those are things, right?
But where you're like, oh myGod, I didn't even know.
I I didn't know that Merabexisted,
Alicia Valenski (29:28):
Yes.
I was just gonna say I would askare there performance spaces
that are not specifically formusic?
So like spoken word or anythinglike that?
Those would be questions.
'cause people, even if theydon't go to them, they usually
know what they are and that theyexist.
That I would usually ask aboutcomedy.
'cause that's one thing I doreally enjoy as a comedy show.
I often asked about drag, whichit's a.
(29:48):
Like a middle ground betweengoing clubbing and being an
indoor cat like you are sittingand watching.
You don't have to participate ifyou don't want to for the most
part.
And then for me, I would almostalways ask about like bookshops
and board game related places.
So there's a board game bar inAmsterdam that we love, that I
would be like, if that existedother places, I would love that.
(30:10):
So a lot of those types ofthings.
I think the biggest surprise forme was learning that in
Australia, they have like bigthings as like a, an attraction
on driving around.
So like the giant tennis ball orlike a giant like fish and
they're just, they'reattractions to get you to road
trip around the country insteadof flying.
(30:31):
That was one that I'm like,that's rad, but super weird.
Jason Blitman (30:34):
we oddly have that in the United States too.
Alicia Valenski (30:37):
What?
Jason Blitman (30:38):
Yeah.
So I used to work for thiscompany that toured shows for
kids around the country, and itwas these professional actors
and they would like literallydrive in a van around the
country and they would stop atlike the world's largest ball of
twine.
Alicia Valenski (30:56):
Oh
Jason Blitman (30:56):
largest mailbox.
Yeah.
Like those are
Alicia Valenski (31:01):
Incredible.
I love that it feels likesomething from the bygone era
where like we all really caredabout Guinness World Records.
That feels like it's leftoverfrom then.
Yeah,
Jason Blitman (31:11):
What happened to those?
Alicia Valenski (31:12):
I don't know.
No one cares anymore.
I don't know.
Like I, it's still in my bucketlist to get one, but I have no
idea what the hell it would beat this point.
They must all be achieved.
Jason Blitman (31:23):
I doubt it.
Alicia Valenski (31:24):
What?
I'm gonna grow my fingernailslonger than that one guy.
That's absolutely not.
Jason Blitman (31:28):
unrelated
Alicia Valenski (31:30):
You just make something up.
Jason Blitman (31:31):
yeah.
Alicia Valenski (31:33):
You don't think we've reached the limits of
human creativity?
I worry about that sometimes.
Jason Blitman (31:38):
What?
I don't know.
There's
Alicia Valenski (31:39):
Sorry, that got dark really fast.
Jason Blitman (31:40):
no, the person, like the person who wore clown
makeup the longest, like
Alicia Valenski (31:45):
True.
It might though.
That's my problem.
This is my issue.
Jason Blitman (31:49):
but did they reach out to Guinness?
Probably not.
Alicia Valenski (31:51):
Okay.
Fair.
That's a fair point.
I just worry we're all justmonkeys at typewriters and
Shakespeare is coming outsomewhere.
Like somebody might have thoughtof that because you thought of
that.
It's like that awful rule withporn rule of 34.
If you can think of it to sayout loud, it exists.
Jason Blitman (32:07):
tell me more.
What is that?
Alicia Valenski (32:09):
I don't know where it, why am I here?
Yeah, it's, I.
Jason Blitman (32:14):
here.
You talk about the 34 rules ofporn, and I'll hold up your book
so that it feels relevant.
Alicia Valenski (32:20):
Perfect.
Thank you.
So as you know of course I don'teven know where this originated,
but it's called the Rule of th34.
If you look it up, it basicallysays, it's like one of those
principles, like anything thatcan go wrong, will go wrong.
Murphy's Law.
So rule of 34 is if you have thethought, do you think porn
exists for insert topic?
(32:41):
If you have the thought itexists.
Jason Blitman (32:43):
does.
Alicia Valenski (32:44):
And working in SEO can confirm.
Gross.
Everyone is so gross on theinternet.
It's awful.
Jason Blitman (32:51):
Let's not shame people.
They're not gross.
They're, curious.
Alicia Valenski (32:54):
no.
Sometimes it's like murder porn.
I get really sad.
Jason Blitman (32:57):
yeah.
If it's illegal or
Alicia Valenski (33:00):
I'm not gonna kink shame.
I'm not here to yuck anyone'syum, but like maybe not murder.
Jason Blitman (33:05):
Yeah.
Let's not murder.
Alicia Valenski (33:08):
I'm glad we agree.
Jason Blitman (33:09):
SEO What is like the craziest thing that you've
discovered?
Alicia Valenski (33:12):
Oh God.
It's all either sad or gross.
The, it's really just, oh, no.
Plenty of exciting things.
I would say a, just that mostsearches are NSFW.
B, Sometimes it's really dark,like you have to consider, most
people aren't thinking about thefact that down the line someone
can see their search queries notassociated with them, but there
(33:35):
is a database of this query hasbeen searched this many times
overall and on average permonth.
It's searched this many timesand it's sometimes really sad,
like.
How to kill yourself was one ofthe hardest days I had.
I was like looking up somethingcompletely unrelated and I was
like, oh no, this makes me sosad that this exists.
(33:55):
But like other times I'm lookingup like something about family
relationships and it's likestepmom porn, and you're like,
no, stop.
I didn't say that.
Why are we talking about thatnow?
Or like stepsister and stepmomtogether.
Like what?
No, stop.
Jason Blitman (34:13):
Again, not yucking, anyone's yum, but
Alicia Valenski (34:17):
We've all seen clue.
Jason Blitman (34:18):
Oh my God.
Yeah, I've seen, I saw somethingon Instagram the other day and
it was a screenshot of one ofthose like Google dropdown
things where it, starts and thenyou see what the next 10 are or
whatever, and it was how toconvert to, and it was like
Christianity, Judaism, Islam, APDF, and then more religions.
Alicia Valenski (34:38):
Yes, truly.
And it's like all thesequestions that you've never ever
thought of.
Like when I used to work at TheSkim and I was doing their SEO
and we were trying to informlike our wellness section.
It was stuff like, what is mylike period, blood being this
color mean, like stuff that youwould not think about.
But yeah, of course people aresearching that'cause what are
(34:59):
they gonna go talk to theirdoctors without Googling at
first?
Like of course not.
So it's really fascinating and Ithink that's part of why I like
doing it for a day job.
But yeah, the inside of people'sminds exist in SEO data.
Jason Blitman (35:13):
We're not here for a brainstorming session.
However, the book of the likeweirdest searches and answers I
would totally read.
Alicia Valenski (35:23):
that's a really good idea.
I should bring that up.
Ooh, thank you.
Thank you for this gift thatyou've given me.
Honestly, that
Jason Blitman (35:31):
welcome.
Alicia Valenski (35:32):
was part of why I wanted to call this book.
The L-G-B-T-Q Travel Guide, ifwe're being real, is like SEO O
values.
Jason Blitman (35:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
I was actually just gonna sayto, loop it back to the book.
If L-G-B-T-Q travel Guide is aperfect thing to search.
But I don't know.
I was gonna try to come up witha clever like search metaphor.
It's gone.
It's
Alicia Valenski (35:57):
I wanted to call it eat gay love.
It was already taken, like everyfun thing I thought of, somebody
was like, no.
And I was like, fine, we'll doSEO.
No, I love it.
It worked out perfectly.
But yeah, the the world of gaybooks, most of the fun puns have
been taken, so I'm gonna have tokeep thinking
Jason Blitman (36:14):
Around the world with 80 gays though,
Alicia Valenski (36:17):
right.
Jason Blitman (36:17):
pretty good.
Pretty
Alicia Valenski (36:18):
Even 30 something for this book was so
much to coordinate for my A DHDass.
I don't think I could have done80.
It would've been insane.
Jason Blitman (36:26):
I know I cannot wait to like, continue to sit
down and flip through it.
Like I said, it is digestible.
It is beautiful.
It is succinct.
And we all need it.
Alicia Valenski (36:37):
I think so too.
I'm so glad you love it.
Fun little fact.
If you look at it from the side,each of the main profiles is a
different color, so it lookslike a little rainbow.
Jason Blitman (36:46):
Yes it does.
Oh my god,
Alicia Valenski (36:47):
Yet also all the people on the cover are
people interviewed in the book.
Fun fact for that as well.
Jason Blitman (36:53):
I was also just gonna say at the very least,
even if you, let's say you hatetraveling, which, that's a
different conversation.
It is.
This book is such a great timecapsule of queer community and
queer life at this time in theworld.
And I think that in and ofitself makes for a very special
(37:14):
experience.
Thank you for sharing it withus.
Alicia Valenski (37:17):
Thank you.
I really appreciate you.
Getting what is special aboutthis book and also just sharing
your emotional response to it.
It's the most rewarding thingfor me.
Like I should probably careabout sales.
That's probably true, but reallyI care about people telling me
how they feel about this bookand like the response being so
emotionally driven and socommunity focused has just been
(37:41):
so uplifting, especially in atime where everything feels like
it's on fire.
Just what a joy to watch thisunfold.
So I hope everyone will read itand love it.
Jason Blitman (37:49):
Yes.
Thank you for sharing how atravel book comes to be.
I think it's so fascinatingbecause I certainly had no idea.
But also I hope that people A,travel to these places and b
remember to treat people withkindness and empathy and all the
things that we need in thismoment.
And I think the book also reallyhighlights and share some of
(38:10):
that too.
So
Alicia Valenski (38:11):
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate this, andalso I'm so excited.
To see how this episode turnsout'cause we went down a lot of
twists and turns.
Jason Blitman (38:19):
Me too.
Alright.
Alicia Valinsky, thank you somuch for being here.
The lgbtq plus Travel Guide fromLonely Planet available now.
Wherever you get your books, Ican't wait for you to check it
out.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!