SPILL THE TEA on Penguin Classics with Elda Rotor

For the inaugural episode of the new series Spill the Tea, host Jason Blitman is joined by Elda Rotor, VP and Publisher of Penguin Classics. They delve into what defines a 'classic,' explore Penguin's expansive and diverse catalog, talk about contemporary works, and discuss the importance of context in classic literature. Make sure to stick around for Elda's classic character answers in a game of "Screw/Marry/Kill!" 
 
Elda Rotor oversees the U.S. classics publishing program including the works of John Steinbeck, Arthur Miller, Shirley Jackson, William Golding, Amy Tan, Alice Walker, and the Pelican Shakespeare series. Elda originated several series including the Penguin Classics Marvel Collection, Penguin Vitae, Penguin Liberty, Penguin Drop Caps, Penguin Orange Collection, Penguin Horror with Guillermo del Toro, and the forthcoming Penguin Speculative Fiction Special.

Classics You Don't Know But Should:

• The Last Supper of Queer Apostles by Pedro Lemebel 
• Dogeaters by Jessica Hagedorn
• The Time Regulation Institute by Ahmet Hamdi Tanpinar
• Minor Notes, Vol. 1 edited by Joshua Bennett and Jesse McCarthy
• The Posthumous Memoirs of Brás Cubas by Joaquim Maria Machado de Assis

Featured Articles:

• NYTimes: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/26/books/review/elda-rotor-penguin-classics.html
• Rolling Stone: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/marvel-comics-penguin-classics-spider-man-1367080/

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the very first episode of abrand new gays reading series
called Spill the Tea.
Today we are spilling the Tea onPenguin classics.
I am so thrilled to be joined bythe VP and publisher of Penguin

(00:21):
Classics, to talk to me allabout what makes a classic, a
classic, what makes a penguinclassic, and we really get into
the nitty gritty and maybe evenplay a game of screw Mary kill
at the end.
So make sure to stick around tocheck that out.
Also important to know that aton of stuff comes up and a
bunch of the things that I sayare gonna be in the show notes

(00:43):
are in fact in the show notes.
So take a look at those,including a list of perhaps
underrepresented classics thatyou may have never heard of
before, and that was sort of theintention behind this list that
you'll see in the show notes.
If you do not already followgays reading, you should do that
over on Instagram.

(01:03):
We are at gay's reading.
We're also over on Blue Sky, buton Instagram we do a lot of
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So make sure to check that outand like, and subscribe wherever
you get your podcast.
So you'll be the first to knowwhen a new episode drops.
And I am known to drop anepisode at random, so there's a
new gays reading Substack.

(01:25):
The link to that can be found inthe show notes, but also in the
link tree on Instagram.
And today's post is more detailsfrom today's conversation.
So you could find that over onthe gays reading Substack.
Make sure to subscribe there.
There's tons of stuff you canaccess with the free
subscription.
Um, but also if you are lookingto support an indie podcast, you

(01:45):
could certainly do the paidsubscription.
And there's additional fun stufffor the folks over on the
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Also, if you are interested insupporting an indie podcast, you
can certainly always.
Leave a five star reviewwherever you get your podcast.
That is super duper helpful andmakes it, uh, a little bit more
possible for me to continuedoing something like this.

(02:07):
I'm so excited for this newseries, spill The Tea.
The plan is for it to happensemi-monthly, so about two times
a month.
We'll take a break during Pridebecause there's a ton of
fabulous pride programmingthat's going on.
I cannot wait for you to checkall of that out.
There are so many excitingauthor conversations and so many

(02:27):
fantastic.
Spill the tea episodes that havealready been recorded and I
cannot wait to share them withyou.
So we've got stuff in the linktree.
We've got stuff in the shownotes.
Make sure to check out thesubstack.
Anyway, enough babbling on forme.
Thank you all so much for beinghere and enjoy my conversation

(02:48):
with Elda Rotor

Jason Blitman (02:54):
I am so happy to be here with you.

Elda Rotor (02:56):
I'm happy to be here with you.

Jason Blitman (02:58):
I have the delightful Elder Rotor.
Rotor like rhetorical.

Elda Rotor (03:05):
Rhetorical like rhetorical.

Jason Blitman (03:06):
The Vice President and Publisher of
Penguin Classics.
Welcome to Gay's Reading!

Elda Rotor (03:12):
Thank you for having me.
I'm very happy to be here.

Jason Blitman (03:15):
VP and Publisher sounds very important.

Elda Rotor (03:20):
We try our best.
We try.
I go, I answer to my liege andqueen also.

Jason Blitman (03:26):
Mmm, mmm, Queen Elda.
That sounds like a, like aDisney character.

Elda Rotor (03:32):
Oh, I'd love that.
That would be great.

Jason Blitman (03:34):
Let's write to someone.

Elda Rotor (03:35):
Yes.
And then Lin Manuel has to makeme a song so I can cry in the
theater.

Jason Blitman (03:40):
Yes.
Are you a singer?
Can you sing along to the song?

Elda Rotor (03:44):
I mean, I can do a little karaoke, you know.
My people, we're known to,

Jason Blitman (03:49):
Filipino.
Yes.

Elda Rotor (03:51):
win some awards.
And then, you know, casualstudents, they can belt out
Mariah, you know, as I see onYouTube.
But I am not that level, but Ican hum a tune, perhaps.

Jason Blitman (04:05):
Okay.
This is not on my list of thingsto talk to you about today, but
what is your go to karaoke song?

Elda Rotor (04:12):
Oh gosh.
I dreamed a dream.
I know.
I shouldn't.
But you know, sometimes you havethat liquid courage

Jason Blitman (04:18):
I was not expecting that.
I'm thrilled.
We have a musical theater girlon Gaze Reading today!

Elda Rotor (04:25):
Also because it's slow and everyone has to like
listen to you.
Like now everybody sit

Jason Blitman (04:30):
Oh, you are that person at

Elda Rotor (04:32):
Yeah, yeah.
I am, I am.
And then I get a little bitclamped and everyone's just
like, Okay, Elder, we're gonnado Girls Just Wanna Have Fun
now.
I'm like, okay.

Jason Blitman (04:41):
I mean, that's why you're at karaoke.
You're the buzzkill.
That's so fun.
I would sit and listen to you,though.

Elda Rotor (04:48):
Thank you, thank

Jason Blitman (04:49):
Um, oh my god, so fun.
Okay, what does being the VP andpublisher of Penguin Classics
mean?

Elda Rotor (04:58):
Okay, so, that basically means that I oversee
the U.
S.
program for Penguin Classics inthe United States.
And that means that I work withwonderful people, our Classics
editorial team, John Siciliano,Gabriel Rivera, Emma Duller.
Work on, think about, work onclassics that have never been

(05:20):
part of Penguin Classics before.
We work on new editions oftitles that we already have on
our backlist, which has like 2,500 plus titles on it.
And we import great titles fromour sisters across the pond from
Penguin UK.
And the whole combination is Ibasically figure out what we
publish over the year, and Isupport several estates, uh,

(05:43):
books that people have loved forgenerations, and think about new
ways of publishing and promotingthem.
So it's a, it's a lot of funparts to the job.

Jason Blitman (05:52):
Yeah, I, uh, say a lot on Case Reading that I'm a
late in life reader, and I thinksome of it, and I mean this with
no offense, but some of it isbecause classics were scary to
me, and sort of felt like work.
Um, uh, I very, I famously, andby famously I mean, Amongst me

(06:16):
and my husband, I didn't, my funstory is in high school, I
didn't finish reading The Hobbitin time for the test, and so the
night before I went toBlockbuster Video to rent the
movie, and they didn't have anycopies left, because of course
there were other people like me,so I didn't know how The Hobbit

(06:36):
ended when I took the test.
Um, that is, it is classic,classic trauma.

Elda Rotor (06:44):
I can imagine.
I can imagine.
How did you do on the test?
You came out just

Jason Blitman (06:48):
I'm sure I did terrible.
I'm sure I did a terrible job.
Uh, similarly, I did finishreading To Kill a Mockingbird,
but I also rented that movie,cause, and that movie is so

Elda Rotor (06:58):
Oh, yeah, could be studied easily,

Jason Blitman (07:01):
Yes.
when I think of classic, I thinkof dusty and trauma and, um, And
when I say dusty, I think Iliterally mean The copies from
school were dusty.

Elda Rotor (07:16):
Oh yes.
The broken spines.

Jason Blitman (07:19):
smelled very specific.
Whose name was written in thecover?
Who else, whose like brother andsister had it in the previous
years?

Elda Rotor (07:28):
Hoping, hoping that previous students who wrote in
it were smart.

Jason Blitman (07:32):
you're right.

Elda Rotor (07:33):
Yeah.

Jason Blitman (07:34):
um, So you in describing your job, you say
that part of what you do is, is.
Decide what books to publishthat have never been a part of
Penguin Classics before.

Elda Rotor (07:48):
Yes.

Jason Blitman (07:49):
How do we get there?
I think the big like, my bigquestion of the day is like,
what makes a Penguin Classic aclassic?

Elda Rotor (07:54):
know, right?
That's just like, that is, thatis the, uh, the question that I
get a lot.
And it, I think that my answerto it is similar every day, but
then it's, there's a nuance hereand there.
And I'd say the main thing isthat it's about the relationship
you have with something createdfrom the past and that like any

(08:14):
relationship, right?
It has its ups and downs.
It can change, it can evolve,and we're primarily helping you
develop that tie with somethingwritten in the past.
And a classic is Well, one ofthe options I'd say is, is a
work that keeps coming up,different generations bring it
up.
They could love it, they couldinterpret it one way, the next

(08:38):
generation interprets it a wholedifferent way, but that
conversation keeps going.
I think the scariest thing iswhen, um, a writer and their
work are no longer read.
Like, it's our job to see, whatdo people think of this book
now?
Like, we're not coming to itwith one opinion, but we're
offering authoritative editionsthat are well produced,

(08:59):
hopefully beautifully published,and we're telling you, what do
you think today about this bookthat was written in the 1930s
or, you know, the 19th centuryor, you know, 25 years ago, and
what a reader thinks, itmatters, no matter who that
reader is.

Jason Blitman (09:14):
Mm.
Okay, to go back for one second,you said the past.
What does that mean to you inthe context of classics?
Cause for me like, the past, tome, could be yesterday.

Elda Rotor (09:26):
Right.
Oh, interesting.
So I'd say the youngest classicsthat we would put into Penguin
Classics are, would have their15th or 20th anniversary of,
from the time it was firstpublished.
But that, that's pretty, thoseare our babies.
Those are totally our babies.
Um, and it goes way, way backto, you know, ye olde times,

(09:47):
ancient times.
You know,

Jason Blitman (09:50):
And that's old with an E at the end.

Elda Rotor (09:52):
course.
Yes.
Um, you know, and so I thinkthat that would be it.
If something was published, andyou know, the scary thing now is
that things in the 80s areactually, like, let's think
about that.
Like, what, what was publishedin the 80s?
And I'm open to thinking about.
You know, for myself, I rememberwhen something was just

(10:13):
published, and now we're goingto put it in Penguin Classics,
and I'm like, this makes sense.
There have been several years,and there have been different
ways of looking at this book,and how, how are people coming
to it now?
So.

Jason Blitman (10:27):
Are there I'm sort of projecting this onto
you, but it sounds like there'snot a specific thing.
You're not like, oh, it has tobe before this date, or it has
to have this specific quality,or it has to have been talked
about every year for the last 15years, right?

(10:50):
You're not sort of hitting achecklist.
It's more about a bigger pictureconversation about individual
titles.
Am I hearing that correctly?

Elda Rotor (10:58):
Yes.
Well, I like to say that I liketo think of Penguin Classics as
a verb, right?
So it's like an action.

Jason Blitman (11:04):
Oh, cool.

Elda Rotor (11:05):
like your responsibility to engage with
something created in the past.
There are people that feel verystrongly about what a canon is,
you know, the canonical text orliterature from the canon.
It definitely has thatexclusive, restricted quality,
and somewhat elitist.
And, um, there's certainly booksthat we publish that would have

(11:30):
been included in what peoplehistorically called the canon.
But I do believe that the canonis evolving and ever changing
because time moves and lifemoves on.
So, really what people thoughtwas the canon at the beginning
of Penguin Classics just happensto be Books before that time,

(11:50):
that that person was in thepublisher's chair, and now
there's just more time hasevolved.
Um, but I also say that withPenguin Classics, we do think
about books that we see ofimportance to students.
and that teachers are lookingfor, like really good editions
of, then we really pay attentionto what the teachers are saying.

(12:13):
You know, they, it's their jobto draw these texts to students
and have young people engagewith them.
So we want to provide books thatare interesting for classrooms,
but we also want to providebooks that are, Going to make
general readers go hmm.
This reminds me of this likething.
I'm streaming.
Why do they have the samethemes?

(12:33):
Or this is making me feel lessalone, and I can't believe this
was written in 1920 and that youknow there's the emotion behind
that connection

Jason Blitman (12:43):
Do you have some specific contemporary examples
of that?

Elda Rotor (12:48):
Let's see.
I think there's some in aperennial classics that are
always It's brought up, I wouldsay, not only in my Google
alerts, but just inconversations with regular
people.
So, you know, Lord of the Fliesby William Goulding.
Whether or not you've read thebook, there's always time for
you to read it, but everyone hasa sense of what that theme is,

(13:09):
is what happens when societybreaks down.
When the adults are, when theadults are not on the island and
it's just the kids, and youknow, what do they turn to, how
do they distinguish, you know.
Good from bad and how do theytake care of each other the most
vulnerable of them who comes upas a leader?
Who's a good leader?

(13:29):
Who's a bad leader?
And and what do you do thelittle ones in the in Lord of
the Flies?
I think is the scariest part isthe people that are just the
general public, you know Sothat's one I'd say Yeah,

Jason Blitman (13:43):
that not make you lose sleep at night?

Elda Rotor (13:44):
I know it's a little bit disturbing.
It's a tiny bit disturbing.
I would say that um, when I readLord of the Flies I read it when
I was like, I've maybe eighthgrader or high school was one of
the first times I understoodwhat it was like to learn
empathy from a book because Irelated to Piggy, you know, I
Definitely was not the athletictype.

(14:06):
I still am not I would be lostif my glasses were broken.
Um, and like, you know, I thinkpeople do assess, like, where,
who would they be in Lord of theFlies?
How would they fare when societybreaks down and you're isolated
on an island with no adultsaround?
Um, so there's that, and thenthere are, like, epics like East

(14:28):
of Eden, um, which we're reallyexcited about.
We, you know, we know thatthere's a A new limited series
that's going to be streaming,released by the end of this year
or early next year.
And that's one of my favoritebooks by John Steinbeck.
Um,

Jason Blitman (14:44):
East of Eden is one of my husband's favorite
books and before I reallystarted reading He wanted me to
read it.
I started it and I was like, oh,this is above my reading level
right now So I can't process it.
Um, but then when I became moreof a reader, I was like, okay
It's time for East of Eden.
Let me do it and It took me aminute to read, because it's,

(15:07):
she's dense, um, and I, and thewriting is so beautiful, and
each sentence is really like afull meal.
And it's interesting, somethingthat came up in my conversation
after reading it was sort of theidea of a, of a big book being
about such sort of specificuniversal themes.

(15:31):
that are intimate without beingas sprawling as the book, as a
book of that length would becontemporarily.

Elda Rotor (15:38):
Mm hmm.

Jason Blitman (15:39):
I think what I'm trying to say is, at the time
that it was written, therewasn't a lot to do.
And so John Steinbeck couldwrite a long book about small
things that covered big ideas.
And that, to me, was sort ofwhat the book was about, and in
turn, or what the book did forme.
Um.
And I think I didn't love it asmuch as I might have at a
different time in my life, uh,but it's very, it's interesting

(16:01):
to sort of see, to think aboutcontext, and when a book was
written, and what was happeningin the world, and what are
people getting from this, andall of that.

Elda Rotor (16:08):
I, I have a suggestion in terms of big, big
books that might be intimidatingto people.
Um, I haven't read every bigbook in the world.
Lord knows there's too manyother distractions and
entertainments out there.

Jason Blitman (16:20):
Lord of the Flies knows.
Mmm.

Elda Rotor (16:27):
big meal with, um, and then just thinking about
that one thing that you likedfrom that night.
It could have been just a littlebit of bite of an appetizer, it
could have been the dessert, butthe same thing with a classic.
It's, you know, you don't 100percent have to say every page
was meaningful to me, but if it,if you came away with a little
bit of insight into something inyour life.

(16:48):
Because you saw it in acharacter or in an exchange
between two characters and youfelt like, oh gosh, they see me.
This makes sense.
That's all we're asking for.
And I think, honestly, that'sall the writer's asking for is
that one connection that's goingto carry you.
Um, yeah, I think that that'sthe hope for all the books that
we publish is that there's asense of connection, however

(17:11):
small, but it might bememorable.

Jason Blitman (17:14):
Mm hmm.
Well, and also, I think a booklike that, classics I think in
general, are asking you to justpause or take a breath, right?
Books these days, I think, aredesigned to be bingeable.
TV shows are designed to bebingeable, you know?
Um, I similarly had an issuewhen we watched Six Feet Under,

(17:38):
which again, my husband loved.
And for me, I think, it was justsuch a slow burn.
That.
My body is conditioned to adifferent kind of storytelling.

Elda Rotor (17:51):
Yeah.

Jason Blitman (17:52):
And so I think that was a similar experience
with East of Eden.
It is, the art is asking you tojust take a breath and sort of
savor the meal.
Even if you don't love the wholemeal, it's designed to savor.

Elda Rotor (18:08):
And then, and you know what?
Put it down.
If you're getting sleepy, put itdown.
Unless you reach for a pangolinclassic in order to sleep, I am
not offended.
I am not offended.
I have heard that about Proust.
Some people, some people love tosay that they finished it.
Some people love to tell me thatthey had a great nap after they
picked, picked it up.

(18:30):
Um, so yeah.
Yeah.

Jason Blitman (18:32):
you talk about, part of the work being keeping,
keeping the conversation going,keeping the books alive, keeping
the stories alive.
Have you experienced slash.
What have you done when you'veencountered maybe problematic
stories, problematic authors,things that are sort of, that,
that don't really quote unquotework today?

Elda Rotor (18:56):
Well, that's why we like to invite.
Scholars and literary experts todo introductions for us.
Um, and because they're familiarwith the work and they also have
that job of, a lot of them, oftalking to young people about
it.
Now, young people are wise andthey're gonna, they're gonna
catch, they're gonna catchsomething.

(19:17):
And you'll have to explainyourself.
So, a lot of the authors that wework with who write the intros
are professors who Know, knowthe conflicts, know the
questions about character, knowthe questions about language.
And I think the most importantthing for them to do is give
context.
You know, so the context is inour introductions, the context

(19:38):
is in our forwards.
We also do this great thingcalled Suggestions for Further
Exploration, which, you know,after you finish the book you
can go, you know, watch thatmovie that our contributor has
mentioned you should watch, ormaybe listen to an album that
might relate to the time period,or, you know, some non fiction

(19:59):
or some journalism that willhelp give you more context.
But I really do feel that it'simportant because we have so
many banned books on ourwonderful list To let the books
speak for themselves and thatengagement with them that
conversation.
It can be angry It could beangry like, you know, Christmas
time with some older relativesAround the dinner table and

(20:23):
we're like, alright, here we go.
We're gonna talk about this now

Jason Blitman (20:25):
Uh huh.

Elda Rotor (20:26):
but it's better to engage and argue right and and
share your point of view thenThen not read it or not engage.

Jason Blitman (20:34):
Right.
You know, it's so interesting.
Of course, like, that's theintention of an introduction or
a foreword, is to contextualize.
And I, because this is a safespace, I'm going to come out and
say it, um, when I wasinterviewing Susan Rieger, she
talked about reading Moby Dickthree times, and I was like,
okay, A, that's a lot.
It must be good if she's willingto pick it up three times.

(20:57):
Um, and I was recently talkingto a friend at a book festival
that I produce and he wastalking about queer themes in
Moby Dick and I was like, oh, Ididn't really know that that was
a thing.
So I went and I bought myPenguin Classic copy of Moby
Dick.
Um, and I say this is a safespace because I started reading
it and I skipped theintroduction.

Elda Rotor (21:15):
That's fine.

Jason Blitman (21:16):
I know I need to go back.
I need, I need the context.
That's important.

Elda Rotor (21:20):
Yes.

Jason Blitman (21:20):
I didn't even think about it.

Elda Rotor (21:22):
You can read it later.
You can read it later.
You know.
Some people do like some, somedefinitely teachers like to jump
right into the first chapter.
And then the context comeslater.

Jason Blitman (21:33):
yeah, yeah.
I mean, even for me, like, whenI read a new book, I don't even
like to really readdescriptions.
I sort of just go right in and,and make, and have experiences
for myself.
But I don't know.
It's, there's a reason why thecontext is there.
So it'll be good to go back andreflect.
I've not gotten very far in MobyDick, just to say.

Elda Rotor (21:53):
I haven't finished it.

Jason Blitman (21:55):
But I look forward to it.
Okay, you just said that, and Iknow when we've talked before,
you said you've not read everyclassic, obviously.
How could you?
It would be impossible.
But there are some that you haveheard are really good.
What are some of those that are,like, perhaps on your shelf that
you look forward to reading oneday?

Elda Rotor (22:15):
well, I, you know, Middlemarch, that's the one that
a lot of people who I admirehave read, have read more than
once.
And I'm like, wow, okay, I willtry again.
Um, and I, I had tried it, youknow, I, what I have to say
though, Sometimes when you thinkyou're ready to meet a classic,

(22:36):
that classic isn't ready to meetyou in your life.
Um, and maybe it'll be more, um,it'll click when you're older,
or maybe it clicked only whenyou were younger.
Um, I heard that, you know,Karamax on the road, write a
bible for the youth.
I thought I wanted to listen tojazz and cross country, and, and

(22:56):
make bad decisions withboyfriends and stuff, but I
thought I loved it when I wasyoung, and then I read it when I
was older, and all I could thinkof was why aren't they all
getting jobs?
I was like, judgmental

Jason Blitman (23:09):
Where are the parents?

Elda Rotor (23:10):
I don't understand, like, don't they have to go back
to work sometime?
Like,

Jason Blitman (23:15):
How are they paying for

Elda Rotor (23:16):
yes, there are so many Airbnbs during this
journey, like, who is, who ispaying, paying for this?
But, you know, people heard it'sreally good, and it is really
good at some time of your life,or maybe it doesn't click with
other people.
Um.
Yeah, the Odyssey is also onethat what people like to just
like just name drop the Odyssey.
Of course the Odyssey Um, I saythat's that's one where I think

(23:39):
bits and pieces you can takefrom it Then you can get that
joke that someone mentionsduring a dinner party.
You're like, oh I get that now,but I'm I'm waiting for the
Christopher Nolan adaptation ofthe Odyssey.
I think that's gonna Pair nicelywith the Penguin Classic in the
future.
But it's okay if you haven'tread the whole thing.
And, or if it's okay if it'staken more than a year, Elda, to

(23:59):
read the Odyssey.
Because you keep putting it downbecause something else is
streaming that you want towatch.
Yeah,

Jason Blitman (24:05):
Is that your, uh, 9th grade, uh, English teacher
saying that to you?

Elda Rotor (24:09):
yes, absolutely.
It's okay.

Jason Blitman (24:13):
Oh, what was I just gonna say?
Mm, mm, mm, mm.
Oh, when I was in high school,for extra credit, you could
memorize the prologue of theOdyssey and recite it in class.

Elda Rotor (24:25):
Oh, that's so great.

Jason Blitman (24:27):
and I did that.
I'm sure if I, I'm sure, if I,like, got going, I could
probably do some of it.

Elda Rotor (24:34):
Okay, you know what you need to do the next time
you're out for karaoke?
You just turn the volume downand do the prologue.
Talk about a buzzkill.

Jason Blitman (24:42):
I know, right?
Seriously.
Oh my God, it's so

Elda Rotor (24:45):
Adjust the mood.
Or raise the bar, one or the

Jason Blitman (24:48):
Or raise the bar, exactly, I know.
Um, okay, so you talked aboutclassics, maybe it's like a 15
or 20 year anniversary.
Oh my god, you're so funny.
Just taking a sip of yourPenguin Classics Little Women
mug.
Ha ha ha ha ha! Very on brand.
Um, you have written articles,which I will stick in the show

(25:09):
notes of this episode, aboutSome, some really big ideas that
are super contemporary to, thatcontextually are super
contemporary, um, like Marvel,and how Marvel can fit into a
classic universe.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
And like, we don't, what's sortof the cliff note version of

(25:30):
your article?
And we can send people there tolisten to

Elda Rotor (25:35):
I think basically, um, going to, working with
Marvel, and we have a wonderfulscholar.
He actually founded the, thefirst college minor in comic
studies in the United States,University of Washington
professor, Ben Saunders.
I worked with him on all oureditions of our Penguin Classics
Marvel collection.
Um, so I was a new student tocomics in this way, and the

(25:58):
things I took away, these arelike my My cliff notes were
really moving because I waslike, I'm getting the same type
of education and personal likeenlightenment that I get with
individual classics that are onour backlist, but these are
comics.
So The Amazing Spider Man.
I thought about debt, and familyobligation, and the reluctance

(26:21):
of young people who need tobecome adults very quickly.
Um, because they have to beresponsible for their families.
That sounds like really deep,but it is in Spider Man, it's in
these themes.
Um, of him feeling thisobligation to his aunt after his
uncle passes.
It's deep!

Jason Blitman (26:38):
it's, no, it's no different than like a captain
going after a giant sperm whale.
Like there's, you know, there'sthis sort of weird epic, uh,

Elda Rotor (26:47):
Totally.

Jason Blitman (26:48):
not quite real life.

Elda Rotor (26:50):
Yeah.
Um, and let's, well the othertakeaways I got were, like,
Captain America had serioussurvival guilt, okay?
I hear that.
That's deep.
And Black Panther was always anoutsider in Wakanda.
And, and how does, how does, howdoes he navigate that?
Um, And then the groups ofsuperheroes and I think that I

(27:12):
also really appreciated our, ourforwards were contributed by
people like Lee Bardugo andJason Reynolds and Gene Luen
Yang and what they brought tohow comics were meaningful to
them and how they were part oftheir personal Like canon of
classics.
I learned about thinking aboutthe Avengers as like your
friends from work and how youhave like a work family And you

(27:36):
all are supposed to cometogether even though you're very
different Creatures to getsomething done, you know, it's a
problem solve I feel very funnyabout that the Avengers X Men is
about embracing your othernessand finding people that also
appreciate that.
I think that has such resonancenow, still.
X Men, X Men, also the emotionalties my friends have with X Men

(27:59):
of a certain era, probably fromthe 80s, is like real and was
probably part of the inspirationfor me.
To do books with Marvel and thenthe Fantastic Four and I'm
looking forward to that comingout that movie.
Um, Chosen Family, I think is,is the idea of that and how we
care for each other, understandeach other when we might be

(28:20):
monsters to other people.
Um, That, to me, was, like, veryspecial to realize.
So, Marvel has this long historyof storytelling that so many
fans have been aware of,actually, have probably felt
seen in these comic books, theway that people feel seen when
they read Jane Austen or RussianLit.

(28:40):
It's, or some translations ofclassics from around the world.
It's the same, it's the samefeeling.

Jason Blitman (28:46):
Yeah.
And, and to your point at thebeginning, it has.
Not only withstood the test oftime, but it is something that
is constantly coming up inconversation, in political
context, in, you know, I mean, Ithink in all sorts of ways,
it's, it's escapism for youngpeople, um, for all sorts of

(29:09):
people, not just young people,talking about it.
Again, Marvel feels verycontemporary, um, a 15th
anniversary of something feelsvery contemporary.
But also thinking through, inpreparing for this conversation,
I was thinking about theclassics that I sort of have

(29:30):
literally read, like To Kill aMockingbird, um, but also
classics that I have.
Experienced in one way oranother, and I think lots of
people like me, their firstencounter with what I would
learn later is classicstorytelling is Disney
adaptations, right?

(29:52):
I think adaptation in and ofitself is a really, uh, unique
way of bringing an old story toa contemporary audience.
Thinking about Shakespeare, andhow, you know, there's Ten
Things I Hate About You is anadaptation of Shakespeare, and
Clueless is an adaptation ofJane Austen, and, you know,

(30:15):
annoyingly, those movies are nowcontemporary classic movies!

Elda Rotor (30:22):
Yes, yes.
And irresistible, still.
Irresistible, right?
Like, you could say that abouthorror also.
Um, you know, I loved, um, wehave Robert Eggers do a foreword
for our new, uh, hardcoveredition of, Dracula coming up at
the end of this year, and Iinvited him to do that before

(30:43):
Nosferatu came out.
And it was so interesting tohear from him, in his foreword,
how formative Dracula was, likehe was Dracula for Halloween
like eight times when he was akid.
Um, you know, he created um,theater adaptations of it when
he was in high school.
And, and then what he says inhis foreword, which I think is

(31:03):
really interesting, and I wouldsay it speaks for me too, is
when a classic story is part ofyour life, and then you see
something on television, andthen you see a movie version, or
a painting, you kind of like, itall becomes one, one mishmash of
that classic, and it's okay, butthen like when you would, when
you return to the source, like,you kind of remember all these
other things that, maybe weren'tpart of the original, but I

(31:26):
still feel that that's, that'sgreat.
That's your version of the,that's your, you're translating
it now.
It's your understanding of aclassic.

Jason Blitman (31:33):
I just had the craziest epiphany, Yelda.

Elda Rotor (31:37):
Yes.

Jason Blitman (31:39):
What did you say is your karaoke song?

Elda Rotor (31:44):
I dreamed a dream.

Jason Blitman (31:45):
Which is from what musical?

Elda Rotor (31:47):
Les Mis,

Jason Blitman (31:47):
Which is based on what?

Elda Rotor (31:49):
Les Miserables.
I know, right?

Jason Blitman (31:53):
Classics are just taking over your life!

Elda Rotor (31:56):
know.
And can I tell you when we, whenwe did the packaging, the cover
design for our, for our Les Mis,I described what I wanted on the
cover and Jillian Tamaki, shedrew the most amazing cover for
it.
But it could also be the coverof the movie or the Broadway
show because I was like, I want,I want barricades.
And I want a woman with her hairshorn, I, I, I want the military

(32:19):
on the left and it was just likevery, and I, I probably did
start breaking out into song

Jason Blitman (32:23):
Oh my god, that's so funny.
Well, cause I was thinking, youknow, Phantom of the Opera, the
longest running musical onBroadway, based on a classic
book, right?
Les Mis, based on a classicbook.
The Great Gatsby is on Broadwayright now.
You know, it's, again, justlike, it is, they're constantly
in the zeitgeist.

(32:45):
you talked about covers.
I think sort of the, uh,quintessential, painting in a
square in the middle with like ayellowish, beige ish background
is like what everyone thinks ofas a Penguin classic these days.

Elda Rotor (33:00):
Yes,

Jason Blitman (33:01):
Um, at some point you shared that a goal is to
make great works of the pastaccessible to readers of today.
My hunch is that packaging mighthave a lot to do with that
because we are very judge a bookby its cover people.
Um, how does that process cometo be for

Elda Rotor (33:21):
Yeah, it's a, it's one of my favorite, favorite
parts of the job, and alsoprobably one of my favorite
meetings of the week, is we meetwith the Penguin Art Department.
Um, so what we do is we pitchthe books that were coming out
for the next season, and we givea sense of like, what art
direction we would like to see,or an idea of what kind of
artists we'd love.
To see portfolios from and thenart does a lot of research.

(33:46):
They have an incredible networkof emerging and established
artists that they work with.
We look at covers, we hash itout.
Sometimes we argue like familydoes.
Um, and and what we do is likefor me, I don't want it to be
your grandmother's penguinclassics, right?
I want it to be.
A classic for today, but it isalso like the key to your
version of storytelling.

(34:07):
When you look at a cover, you'regoing to pick it up.
Either you're going to see it ina bookstore.
So it's got to be dynamic andvibrant and something, an object
that's going to attract you togo and pick it up at the table
and ours instead of othersaround us.
Um.
Or it's going to be beautifulbut in a thumbnail image because
you're literally, you know,shopping when you shouldn't be

(34:28):
shopping on your phone.
And, and scrolling, and thatcover in its tiniest form should
just be as beautiful.
Um, so we do have that, our, theheart of the whole series are
what we call the Black SpinePenguin Classics, is what you,
you say.
And it's also

Jason Blitman (34:44):
behind you.

Elda Rotor (34:45):
Yes, that's the whole.
People, I think that this issort of status y for like the
TikTok world or maybe thePinterest world or they, it does
have this like cachet of like, Iread, you know, um, it does and
it also looks like a fakebackground, but

Jason Blitman (35:00):
They're uniform, it's very sleek.

Elda Rotor (35:02):
But we do ha we do hardcovers that are in
different, different series likePenguin Vitae and Penguin Drop
Caps and I'm, I'm going to belaunching a brand new series in
the fall called PenguinSpeculative Fiction Special for
our sci fi fantasy horrorfriends.
And this is a one off that Idid, um, when Wicked came to the

Jason Blitman (35:24):
Oh my God.
That's

Elda Rotor (35:26):
is Which, um, podcast folks, it is Wizard of
Oz, but it is a blinged outWizard of

Jason Blitman (35:34):
That is so blinged out.
Oh my God.
We, everyone is obsessed withsprayed edges these

Elda Rotor (35:39):
I know, unfortunately they have that
term, it's spredges, whichdoesn't sound delightful to me
at all, right?
I'm sorry, I haven't said it.

Jason Blitman (35:47):
Who called?
It spreads.

Elda Rotor (35:48):
somebody did, and I think they should take it back,

Jason Blitman (35:50):
I think Port Manaus in general need to, need
to go.

Elda Rotor (35:55):
Because you can never stop, right?

Jason Blitman (35:56):
Can I start a who?
Who do I need to talk

Elda Rotor (35:59):
I don't know.
Portmanteau police.
Or the, I can't even, I can'teven portmanteau that.
So, and look we have Toto too.
We put him in end paper.
But so, yes.
So there are printed edges withthe characters from the Wizard
of Oz across the paper.
And um, beautiful.
This is supposed to be the viewwhen you're in.

(36:20):
In a balloon, looking at Kansas,or it could be the stained glass
of a window in Emerald City.
It could go either way.
See what we do here?

Jason Blitman (36:32):
my God.

Elda Rotor (36:33):
Yes.

Jason Blitman (36:34):
That is so special.
So I also post these on YouTube,and I encourage anyone who's
listening to go just look atYouTube.
Because this book is sogorgeous.
And then go buy a copy.

Elda Rotor (36:45):
And then go buy a copy,

Jason Blitman (36:46):
I feel like if I were you, I would just have
every copy on my shelf becausethey're beautiful.

Elda Rotor (36:51):
Yes, I try.
Well, you know, we have as manyas we can of the new titles in
the office.
Uh, I'm not, I'm not allowed tobring so many books because I
live in New York City in anapartment.

Jason Blitman (37:03):
Right.

Elda Rotor (37:04):
it's the same rule as tote bags.
Like, I can't

Jason Blitman (37:08):
get get one, you have to get rid of one.
Yeah.

Elda Rotor (37:11):
I mean, I, I bring like, like 14 to the grocery
store.
But I, you know, that's, I havetoo many tote bags.
But I, I always want anotherone.
I want another one.

Jason Blitman (37:21):
Tote bags and mugs.

Elda Rotor (37:22):
Yes, so if you have one, I'd be all for it, but no
pressure,

Jason Blitman (37:25):
now that I just saw your Little Women Classics
mug, I'm like, oh my god, I needa classic mug.

Elda Rotor (37:32):
Yes, you do.
Yes, you do.
We'll make, we'll work on that.
We'll make that happen,

Jason Blitman (37:36):
Oh my god, yes, I'll get you a gaze reading tote
bag, and I'll get a PenguinClassics mug.
So funny.
Um, okay, weird question,because Classics As a person who
is not studying them, and aperson who doesn't work with
them on a daily basis, um, thisis going to be a very bold
statement, but I don't think I'mwrong.

(37:58):
They seem very white.
I'm curious.
My instinct is that part of thatis political of the time, and
what was getting published, andwhat, you know, all sorts of
things.
But I'm curious if there arethings that are discovered or

(38:19):
uncovered, or is there like aPenguin Classics excavation
process of finding things thatwe might not have been talking
about for the last 50 years?

Elda Rotor (38:31):
oh, yes.
Absolutely.
If you can find us, we're on thesocials, of course.
But we also have our own websitefor Penguin Classics, the United
States.
It's Penguin Classics for sure.
We have a very robust, uh, shallI say the word diverse?
I will.
Um, color, uh, like writers ofcolor, writers from all around

(38:53):
the world, it's, it's reallybeen, um, a real mission for us,
uh, at least for sure, for like,I'd say 18 years we've been
committed to this.
And it's interesting too,perspective wise, it's exactly
what you said, when you thinkabout.
I guess gatekeeping and, uh,this sort of like cultural

(39:15):
elite, um, arenas, it's sort oflike, it kind of represents a
historical moment, it alsorepresents who might have been
marginalized for one reason oranother, who was published in
the right magazines or not.
And then that sort of tricklesdown to who then should be
worthy of being published.
And we love archival work.

(39:37):
We love learning about scholarsand experts who are in the
trenches.
Um, I would say like cratedigging, sort of like looking
for vinyl.
You know, cause there are suchamazing authors that might have
not been as popular as theycould be today, but they wrote
back in the day.

Jason Blitman (39:54):
Right.
The the work exists.

Elda Rotor (39:56):
work exists, yeah.
And, you know, so it, it doesn'tlook like Penguin Classics did.
It's basically like there's moreroom at the table.
Nobody's excluded.
And the best thing is becausethose writers that maybe haven't
been published as well in thepast are speaking to the books
that you already know, that havebeen canonical and established.

(40:18):
They have had peers writing andI am sure that the authors that
have been established love tohave these conversations with
them.

Jason Blitman (40:26):
not to put you on the spot to say what are a
handful of books that peoplecould start with or turn to that
they may not have ever heard ofbefore.
You don't have to, like, come upwith a list right now.
I mean you can, but I was goingto say we could maybe put
together a list that I couldinclude in the show notes

Elda Rotor (40:44):
Oh, can I do that?
I'd love to.

Jason Blitman (40:46):
yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, because I think, you know, Ispecifically went to the
classics section of thebookstore to get Moby Dick,
because I was looking for thisspecific classic.
My instinct is that that's whata lot of people do.
They go to the section becausethey're looking for that one
thing that they're reading withtheir friends, or that is based

(41:07):
on whatever, or who knows why,but they're not browsing the
classic section in the waythey're browsing the new fiction
section.
And so, I'm excited, let's pointpeople in the direction of books
that they probably haven't readthat they'll love just as much
as

Elda Rotor (41:22):
Yeah.
And I would do a little visualtrick, also, is I would go into
the literature sections.
Of the, the bookcases, like in,like I said, where the backlist
is, right?
Not necessarily the fronttables.
The front tables will have ourgorgeous hardcovers and deluxes,
for sure.
But you look for our penguin,and in the black, in the black
spined tuxedo dress, right?

(41:42):
In paperback, and they will beembedded, they'll be threaded in
the fiction, A to Z.
Um, and you'll find our editionsthere.
And you'll be surprised,pleasantly surprised, with the
variety of authors that we'republishing.

Jason Blitman (41:53):
I love that so much.
right, because I, I want to readmore classics too, but I also
want to read classics that Ididn't know I wanted to read.

Elda Rotor (42:01):
Exactly.
Exactly.

Jason Blitman (42:03):
I could sit here all day.
I could ask you so manyquestions.
I could ask you how you come upwith, you know, your alphabet
series where, you know, you havethe A to Z and it's the base,
it's the author's last name.
And that's the letter.
Like I could ask you how youcome up with that person and why
you chose that.
I could, we could go letter byletter.
We could have a whole series.
Um, well, we don't have time forthat today.

Elda Rotor (42:24):
Not today, Satan.
Heh heh

Jason Blitman (42:27):
Um, I wanted to come up with a whole list to ask
you about classic fictionalcharacters, who you would screw,
marry, or kill.
And I have to say, Elda, when Iwas going through the list, I
was so overwhelmed for a lot ofreasons.
A, there are a lot of classicfictional characters.

Elda Rotor (42:47):
Mm.
Mm.

Jason Blitman (42:50):
that you might not have read all of the books,
and so you wouldn't really haveanything to speak on why you
were answering the way that youwere answering.
So, instead of playing the game,I will ask you sort of in a big
picture, canonically, who wouldyou screw, who would you marry,
who would you kill?
Oh,

Elda Rotor (43:16):
Well, okay.
So, bad boyfriend potentialhere.
Um, I didn't learn anything fromreading this when I was 16, I
think.
Alright.
Also, I'm looking forward to theGreta Gerwig movie version.
But Wuthering Heights,Heathcliff.
Okay, screw still.
Sure.
Yes.
Now, I don't want, I don't wantyour followers to get confused.

(43:39):
I'm going to pause and then say,Jacob Elordi is happening to be
in the Wuthering Heights forGreta Gerwig.
He's going to play Heathcliff.
But that is a whole hot, like,conversation is who should be
Heathcliff.
I

Jason Blitman (43:52):
Who do you think should be

Elda Rotor (43:53):
I think it should be Dev Patel.

Jason Blitman (43:56):
Oh, okay.

Elda Rotor (43:59):
it

Jason Blitman (44:00):
You just showed your cards.

Elda Rotor (44:01):
ha ha ha.
That would be that.
So, so Mary.
Oh my goodness.
No.
Oh, jeez, this is gonna be toohard.
Cause I'm thinking of, I'm justthinking about very traumatic
characters.
Like, I don't want to marryDracula.
I don't want to marry any of thekids, no I can't marry kids from

(44:24):
Lord of the Flies.
This is gonna be too tough.
Definitely not Captain Ahab.
Oh gosh, can I just, can I juststay unmarried?
Can I just like, no?

Jason Blitman (44:33):
What about like Mr.
Darcy or like, you know, verylike, cliche?

Elda Rotor (44:38):
You know what, I'm gonna go for, I'm gonna marry
the lion from The Wizard of Oz.

Jason Blitman (44:42):
Um,

Elda Rotor (44:43):
I know,

Jason Blitman (44:44):
I love that

Elda Rotor (44:45):
right?
Loyal, and just cute.

Jason Blitman (44:48):
Loyal and courageous and very kind.

Elda Rotor (44:51):
you're right.
And I can dominate, so that'sokay.

Jason Blitman (44:54):
Yes! Oh my god, yes! Wicked Witch of the West!

Elda Rotor (45:02):
and then kill.
Oh geez, who would I want tokill?
Oh, mmm,

Jason Blitman (45:08):
I know, it's very, it's mean.
You like, you almost have topick someone who dies in one of
the books, because otherwise.
Or someone who's like, annoying.

Elda Rotor (45:16):
someone is annoying.
Gosh, that's gonna make, I'mgonna get in so much trouble to
say who, I'm looking at all mybooks to see who I would kill.
Oh, goodness, that's too hard.
What

Jason Blitman (45:29):
I know, this is such a mean question.

Elda Rotor (45:31):
who, cause you know why?
Cause even villains have, they,they've had a bad, something bad
happened in their childhood,

Jason Blitman (45:38):
Yes! Look at Wicked! Look at Wicked!

Elda Rotor (45:40):
at Wicked.
So, I don't know if I wouldkill.
How about if I, if I kill thebeast, the spirit of evil on the
island of Lord of the Flies?
That's like, I'm going around,you know.

Jason Blitman (45:51):
That's a great answer.
That's okay.

Elda Rotor (45:53):
would kill the beast.

Jason Blitman (45:54):
Yes.
That's like, that's like theequivalent of Miss America
saying she wants world peace.

Elda Rotor (46:01):
Exactly! That's my fancy, that's my fancy answer.

Jason Blitman (46:05):
exactly.
Oh my god, those are greatanswers.

Elda Rotor (46:08):
I've tried.
I've tried.

Jason Blitman (46:10):
my god.
I love that we have scratchedthe surface as to what makes a
classic.

Elda Rotor (46:17):
so much more.

Jason Blitman (46:18):
There's so much more.
And I feel like, you know, wecould do a whole book club on,
you know, deep dive on everysingle, every single classic
going on.
Um, but yeah, the idea of whatmakes a classic a classic, I
think will forever be thisongoing conversation.
And I love that.

Elda Rotor (46:36):
And I, I love pondering it every single day.
It changes every day.

Jason Blitman (46:40):
And, and, is there something particular,
maybe, quote unquote, today,that is, that you're thinking
about that's, that's new anddifferent that you weren't
thinking about?
Metaphorically, yesterday.

Elda Rotor (46:52):
Yeah, I think for me today, right now, it's about
emotion.
It's like, what emotion do ourreaders have right now?
And what do they, what kind ofclassics?
are gonna help them out.
Um, I was saying that we shouldwork on nobody who is a
publisher take this idea from meor I'll find you.
Anyway, I was thinking in ameeting today, I said should we

(47:13):
do, um, classics for anxiouspeople?
Maybe we should.

Jason Blitman (47:17):
That's a great little bundle.
I know.
What's gonna make us feel warmand cozy at

Elda Rotor (47:23):
Yes.
Calmer.

Jason Blitman (47:24):
a little safer in the world and calmer?
Yes.

Elda Rotor (47:28):
every generation, I tell you.

Jason Blitman (47:31):
Honestly, it's a great idea to put together just
like lists.
You don't, they don't even haveto be actual collections, but a
list of here are books to makeyou calm.
Here are books when you want tofeel rage.
Here are books that you may nothave ever heard of before.
Here, like we, you know.
Right,

Elda Rotor (47:49):
stealing or borrowing this idea.
And you'll see it on our socialsin a month.
Thank

Jason Blitman (47:54):
you're welcome.
You're

Elda Rotor (47:55):
You're the best.
I'll tag you.
I'll get your mug.
You will, you will get, you willget the mug for sure.

Jason Blitman (48:02):
Oh my god, El Toro Tor.

Elda Rotor (48:04):
Rhetorical.

Jason Blitman (48:05):
I'm obsessed with you! Um, I'm publicly stating
that I want to have you backthis fall to talk about your sci
fi series because no better timeto talk about it than the
Halloween time.

Elda Rotor (48:18):
Oh, that would be fun.

Jason Blitman (48:19):
and everyone go check out the show notes where
you'll find a list of classicsthat you might not have ever
heard of that you need to checkout.
You'll, I'll link Elda's, uh,Marvel article and other fun
little nuggets in the shownotes.

Elda Rotor (48:35):
Great.

Jason Blitman (48:35):
Thank you for being here.

Elda Rotor (48:36):
thank you for having me.
I so enjoyed it.