Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
You got questions going out ofyour mind. Someone with answers.
Now that's hard to find. Likethe what and the why and the how
stuff works. Or just where togo to avoid all the jerks. She's
Gear Abbey. Gear Abbey. GearAbbey Advice that doesn't suck. Gear
Abby. Hello there, myoutdoorsy friends, and welcome to
(00:25):
Gear Abbey. I'm
Chante Salibair, an outdoorenthusiast, educator, and writer
who's not afraid to tackle thecontroversial, weird, obscure, and
taboo topics that otheroutdoor podcasts refuse to touch.
I've been at the summit ofMount Kilimanjaro, have flown ass
over tea kettle while mountainbiking in Moab, have hiked the first
thousand miles of the PCTmultiple times while writing a guidebook,
(00:48):
and once rocked, once walked.I did rock it, though. Roughly 60
miles on a three day missionto stumble into every single brewery
in California's Ventura countyis Gear Abby, the podcast where I
channel all that experienceand more into answering your burning
questions about ourrelationships with outdoor products,
people, places and pastimes.Now, the answers depend on the topic
(01:12):
at hand and just how spicy I'mfeeling that day. But you can count
on a grab bag of personalanecdotes, hands on research, and
conversations with fellow Gearnerds. Because remember, my outdoor
loving pals, there are no dumbquestions, just smart advice. All
right, so you know how thisworks. You're going to send questions
(01:35):
to myrockfightmail.com and I'mgoing to pick my favorites to answer
here on the show. But beforewe get started, I want to introduce
my partner in gear, theproducer of Gear Abby, and our official
question slinger, Colin True.
Thanks, Shantae. I. I'd liketo put. Okay, I like Question Slinger.
(01:55):
That's a good moniker. Andalso partnering gear that kind of
shortens to Pig Pig. I'm notsure I'm as okay with that, but.
Question Slinger, thumbs up.
Yeah, I don't know if I'mready to give you kind of like a
Spider man reference yet.Spider Man 5. I want you to sort
of earn that place on the podcast.
So you're saying you're gonnacall me Pig? Is that what you're
(02:17):
basically alluding to there?
That'll do, Pig. That'll do.
Come on, man. All right, herewe go. Attention Gear Abbey listeners.
This is your producer andpartner in gear, Colin True speaking.
And I wanted to let you knowthat that sound you just heard, the
one that sounded like this,that's your indication that there
is a footnote available foryou on the Gear Abbey episode companion
(02:37):
article over on Rockflight.Co. Go check it out to get even more
from every episode of Gear Abbey.
All right, well, do you havethe first question ready for me?
I do, but the real questionhere is, are you actually ready for
the first ever question inGear Abby? There's never going to
be another one. This is theonly first question there's ever
going to be.
(02:58):
Wow. I. I feel like is. Is thefirst question actually just you
and I asking each other. Areyou ready for the first question?
Buckle up, listeners. Here wego. Are you ready for the first question?
It's basically the podcastversion of Pong, where you and I
just bat the same questionback and forth.
Little like, pop, pop soundeffect and forth.
ColeCOV A tight 30 minutes, ifyou recall.
(03:19):
ColeCOvision. Emailus@myrockfightmail.com if you're
old enough to.
Develop corns on your feet,which I am apparently.
Poor Gear Abby.
Oh, man. Already suffering. Ineed to ask myself some questions,
maybe.
All right. Are you ready forthe first question?
I actually am.
All right, here we go. DearGear Abby, what are the best places
(03:41):
to poop on a hike? What arethe worst places to poop on a hike?
Signed, your mom. Is that likeyour. Is that really your mom?
I am going to guess that yes.In fact, that is my actual mom. She
knew about the podcast GearGrandma. No, she's not. I don't have
any children unless she'sgrandmother to my cat, Gear Mom.
(04:03):
That doesn't work.
Gear Mom. Gear Mom. She. Ithink she'd say yes. She'd be all
right with that. My mom likesa shout out, you know, I mean, honestly,
you know, thanks a lot, Mom.If that was you sending in that question,
because you are the one whohad to deal with both my literal
and metaphoric shit, you know,long before I ever did. So I appreciate
you and this question. Well,all right, let's start with a little.
(04:28):
I think. I mean, honestly,this is the perfect question. Colin,
you know this.
Yes.
You know, you know it is. It'sthe perfect starter question. Anyone
who's listened to any of theRock Fight episodes I've been on
knows I will talk about poop.I will find a way to. This is going
to. Now I'm feeling like Ishouldn't say this. Slide it into
any conversation.
Oh, dear God.
Oh, boy.
(04:48):
I gotta check the counter. Howfar into the first episode are we?
Okay, keep going.
All right, well, we know Ilike talking about poop, but I highly
doubt that everybody wants tolisten to me talking about it too
much. But I will say thesepoop questions, I have a feeling
we're probably going to getthem quite often because this is
the number one thing I teachoutdoor skills. And when people take
my classes, they askconstantly about pooping outdoors.
(05:10):
Actually, I was on theColorado trail and we ran into a
group of teenage boys andtheir parents bought us breakfast.
And the boys, the very firstquestion they asked me, well, like,
how do you poop outside? It'slike, well, you squat and then you
make a poo. Yeah, but we'llget there one day. For now we're
(05:31):
going to talk about best andworst places to poop outside. So
in order to do that, I feellike we have to dig into the idea
of leave no trace. So if youare familiar with a set of etiquette
guidelines for being a goodsteward of the outdoors while you're
out there, you probablyalready know that you need to first
go on a good long journey tomake sure you're at least 200ft from
(05:52):
the trail. Water sources,camp, you know, anything like that.
And the Internet tells me whenI Googled it that 200ft is roughly
quote, 70 adult steps, whichhonestly sounds like a self help
guide for gen zers. So if youneed that, I could write that book
next. You need that, don'tyou, Colin?
I do. I would like that book.
(06:12):
I mean, you're not a Gen Z er,but I'm still going to write 70 adult
steps for you. You'll haveyour own version of it.
I think that's like burnedinto my mind now. I'm going to be
counting my steps from now onwhenever I go to poop outside.
Please do 70.
70.
So you know, okay, sobasically from an lnt Leave no trace
perspective, the worst placeto poop would be within 200ft or
(06:34):
70 adult steps from any ofthose things I mentioned. Right.
Okay, so the best place wouldbe outside of that. Blah, blah, blah.
Boring. Okay, we're going toget a. We're going to go a bit deeper,
a little more esoteric,because for me it turns out the worst
place to poop outside is 95%of the time the place that I'm going
to pick. So it's that placewhere you think you're hidden from
the trail, but as soon as myshorts are around my ankles and I'm
(06:57):
like bearing down, I seepeople come into view through the
trees and they just. My littlenascent poop just goes like right
back, right back in and itbegins the digestion cycle all over
again. Um, I'm really good atthat. I'm really good at thinking.
I'm walking in a straight lineaway from a trail and what I'm really
doing is somehow parallelingthe trail. And yeah, I also can't
(07:19):
tell you the number of timesthat I have almost fallen into my
own poop aisle because I choselike a too steep slope upon which
to lay my wares. Sorecommendation to all people. Flat.
Flat is a little better forpooping. Although I do think there's
something to be said for anuphill grip. So you know, if you're
going to choose to poo on aslope, aim your butt downhill. That
(07:41):
is the very important keypiece of advice here. I've also chosen
many times to use a tree tobrace against and I only to end up
with SAP on a lot of places,including my buns. But Colin, I'm
sure you're not shocked bythis. I have some least favorite
poop spots of all time.
For someone who's as happyabout talking about poop, you seem
(08:03):
exceedingly bad at it.
Hey, listen, it comes outevery time. Okay, that's not clearly
not the first example.
You gave it shot right back up there.
I've since learned from myfolly. Okay. I get enough fiber.
Okay. I'm doing fine. It's theembarrassment factor that I'm not
great at. I'm working on it.I've had a long time now to perfect
(08:23):
this art.
You have pooped outside waymore than I have, so I should not
make fun.
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah.Know your place, Colin.
Seriously? Yeah. That's goodadvice by Krabby.
Well, here. And yeah, I'll.I'll give you. I'll give you my two
least favorite poop spots ofall time. Because I know you're dying
to hear.
I certainly am.
First was the time I got whatI believe was giardia. During a thru
(08:45):
hike. Yep. After a few days I,you know, I thought I'd been through
the worst of it. So I got backon trail only to feel the urge return
very suddenly. Just a fewminutes up from the trailhead, which
was a slope. You know, I wasup a slope basically filled with
nothing more than a few. Juststout little bushes. Yeah. And it
was pretty impressive howquickly I got behind one of those.
(09:07):
Made myself as small aspossible. I was like, I am a woodland
creature. I'm a woodlandcreature. And the second worst was
probably during my very firstbackpacking trip where I wandered
what felt like 500 miles awayfrom camp. It was probably like 5ft
but I chose a beefy fallen logas my wooden throne. I was like,
this is it. This is the placeto go. I settled in, and then I was
(09:29):
interrupted by this sound.Colin. Which was a bear sniffing
around behind me.
Oh, my God.
Yeah. So if you're wonderingwhether it's possible to run with
your pants around your ankles,I can tell you from experience that
it is. Yeah. Not well, but you can.
But wow.
Yeah.
That's an amazing story.
Yeah. But your mom, slash, mymom also asked about the best places
(09:52):
to poop. So I do not want toleave her or the poop hanging. So
if I have to dig a cat hole,here's the thing. Like my number
one requirement, other thanall the leave no trace business,
is just to find a good view.Like a view that will help me relax,
a view that will help mysphincter relax, you know, so much
so that I can actually. Colin.Remember specific poo spots from
(10:13):
the Pacific Crest Trail.
Wow. No kidding.
Yep. It's my special skill. Ihave a photographic memory. Not of
the poop itself, but of the view.
Seems like a missed opportunity.
I do know a friend who wouldtake photos of her poo spots. Not
the poo again. There's a linewe don't cross here. But would take
a picture of all her poo spotson the trail so she can look back
(10:34):
and remember them later.
This might be a joke genderdifference because I would take a
picture of my poo and send itto my buddy.
That tracks. That really doestrack. Oh, man. Anyway. Yeah, so.
So best spot. Best spot isabsolutely somewhere you can. Somewhere
photo worthy is what I would say.
Love that. I do have aquestion, you know, because you opened
the response to your mom withthe leave no trace protocols, right?
(10:58):
Yes.
And a lot of, you know, thecat holes, not as. Not as preferred
as wag bags and things likethat. A lot. A lot of. A lot of thought
into the ins and outs andgoings on of how to poop, how and
where to poop out. Well, thatwas intentional. Of where and how
to poop outdoors. But Iimagine when one does have giardia.
Yeah. You just. There's.That's all out the window.
(11:19):
It's all out.
It's all out. Yeah. You'rejust spraying down wherever you are.
As long as it's not insideyour tent.
Yeah. I mean, you don't wantto be doing it everywhere. Colin.
That is. That's the wholepoint, is that you want to. You don't.
You don't. But yeah, I've gotSo many unfortunate stories about.
About not giardia, but justeating. Like on the pct. You get
(11:41):
really hungry out there.
Yeah.
And just eating too much andtoo much. Like I ate on the pct.
I was about two months or likea month and a half in, and I got
to a place that had burgers. Ihad not eaten red meat since, I don't
know, probably a decade prior.And I also can't have gluten because
my body has no idea how todigest it. And so what did I do is
I got a cheeseburger and I ateit and it was glorious. And then
(12:04):
I ordered a second. Um. So,yeah, yeah, it wasn't a good 24 hours
after that, I'll tell you that much.
Well, we're off to a hell of astart here on Gear Abbey.
Yes, that's right. Yeah.Answering your burning questions
about your burning butthole.Wow. With that, Colin, I think that
maybe we should move along andtry something else. You have another
(12:26):
question for me?
Oh, I do.
Thank God.
Dear, dear Gear Abby, I'mpretty new to trail running and I'm
still trying to figure outwhat kind of gear I should buy. One
of my biggest questions isabout running vests. I keep seeing
all of these Tiktoks andInstagram posts making fun of people
who wear running vests onshorter runs, and I just don't want
to look any stupider out therethan I already do when I'm running.
(12:46):
So far, I haven't run morethan a 10k on trail so far. Is it
a dumb idea to start wearing avest as I work up to a half marathon?
Should I carry a handheldinstead? Signed, Jason R. From Tahoe.
Oh, man. Buddy, what makes youthink you look stupid out there?
I mean, to be fair, I alsolook stupid when I'm running, so.
Man. Jason R. From Tahoe. Sir,first, my very first piece of advice
(13:11):
to you is stay off tick tockand just go join a run group or something
so you can hang out withactual runners in person. I promise
you, it's much better for you.And second, buddy, no one who is
actually on the trail gives ashit what other people are doing
or wearing or look likebecause honestly, they're too busy
enjoying themselves and. Ortrying not to die. And as a trail
(13:31):
runner, I speak fromexperience, so I really don't care
what anybody else looks like,what they're carrying, what they're
doing, unless they're tryingto cause harm to my body. I mean,
gear choices, as you're goingto discover, as you Listen to this
podcast are highly personal.So what works for a TikTok influencer
or some judgy ass hat is notnecessarily going to be right for
you. So first, sir, I wouldsay what made you start thinking
(13:57):
about wanting to wear arunning vest? Like, was it because
you saw other people doing itonline or offline and thought you
should, or was there somethingmore specific that you were thinking
the vest might address? So Iwant to help you chew on this a bit
more. So let's talk about thepurpose of the running vest. Colin
and Jason are, which is.Colin, do you have any guesses what
(14:17):
a running vest is for?
Hydration, Carrying stuff. Thestuff you need on your run. It's
essentials. It's for essentials.
Yeah. Basically it's just,it's there to hold things so that
you might want on your personwhile you're running. So that's a
running vest. It's prettysimple. I mean, holy shit, if that
is not the most simple,perfect description of what these
things do, it's just likeholding stuff, right? So, okay, here's
(14:40):
the question you need to askyourself and then answer is, do you
want to have stuff on yourperson while you're running? And
if so, you may want toconsider a vest. So a handheld is
really going to carry just afew things. I can cram my, my wallet
in there, I can cram mychapstick in there and keys, and
that is about it for anynormal human sized handheld. So if
you're using like an AlexHonnold sized handheld, that's going
(15:02):
to be different. But for meremortals it's not going to carry too
much. So if you decide youwant other stuff with you, you can
consider the vest. So theyhave different, you know, capacities.
Just like a hiking orbackpacking pack. When I first started
using one, I got the OspreyDyna 15. It was the largest capacity
I could find because myintention was essentially to take
(15:24):
it on a 15 mile run deep inthe backcountry up in the Sierra.
I wanted to have my 10essentials with me. You know, all
the things that willtheoretically help me stay alive
out there and enough food tofeed a family of five. At least,
at least lest I, you know,trip, break a leg, starve to death
out there. Which is of coursemy, you know, common fear whenever
(15:44):
I go trail running in thebackcountry. Just absolute visions
of, of, of death anddismemberment whenever I try. I don't
know why, it gets relaxingwhen I'm done, but there's something
about the actual trail runningthat sparks the fear of God within
me. So I am so careful when Itrail run. I'm like basically just,
I'm basically just fast walking.
Are you actually running?
That's a good question. No,because. Because the first time I
(16:06):
went trail running it was upnear Tahoe. My friends and I were
staying at a, like a firelookout and, and I was like, I'm
going to go trail running uphere. And I was just going to go
on like a two mile trail run.You know, it's forest, there's a
lot of duff, kind of chill.And I biffed it like 10 minutes into
the run. I just went down sohard into a bunch of pine needles,
(16:27):
my knee like split open. Nowthere's pine SAP and pine needles
sticking in the wound. Iabsolutely just like licked my wounds,
hung my tail and walked backlike a sad dog.
It is a skill. Trail runningrunning and trail running is its
own thing that you do have tolearn how to do.
So though it is, it is. Maybewe'll talk about it someday. That's
a good question, is how thehell do you do that thing? But if
(16:50):
you're already there and youwant to carry some stuff, I got some
more, got some more ideas foryou. Good thing. I had, by the way,
in my trail running vest whichI had with me that day, I had a first
aid kit. So hey, hey, I meanit didn't help that much but you
know, I felt good for havingit at least. But anyway, I mean the.
So, so I have that 15 literone right where I'm carrying, you
(17:12):
know, a buffet dinner forseven. And it turns out that was
a bit too much PA for most ofmy runs. And so I, you know, I eventually
added an ultimate direction,Ultravesta, which is a much more
lightweight. It's about halfthe capacity of my Osprey. And, and
it's, it's so light that Ibarely ever notice I have this thing
on, which means honestly I'mmore likely to bring it on longer
(17:33):
runs closer to home when Iwant to carry like extra food layers.
Maybe it might rain out thatfirst aid kit for when I'm apparently
going to bloody myself myphone, you know, stuff like that.
You get the drift. So mypersonal formula is this, my Tahoe
running friend is I use ahandheld when I'm just dragging my
carcass around theneighborhood or on short local trails
(17:54):
and I switch to a vest when Iwant more carrying capacity since
I absolutely can't stand thefeel of running With a waist pack
or a fanny pack on, it's likeslapping against your butt cheeks.
It just. I do not enjoy that.Yeah, that's for my downtime. I wish
y' all could see poor Colin,like, silent laughing in his little
recording booth right now. I'msorry, buddy. Sorry to my mom.
(18:18):
Remember the beginning whenyou said that? You said how spicy
you are. Sounds like you'repretty spicy today.
Spicy? We're talking aboutfanny pack butt slapping. I'm sure
Jason R. From Tahoe didn'tthink that was coming.
I picked the must fanny bag atDeja Vu Love Boutique.
Hey, I did say people couldsend me any. Any kinds of questions,
so. So anyway. All right, solet's wrap this up here at the end
(18:40):
of the day. I think it'spretty simple. Like, figure out what
do you want to carry on yourruns, then figure out the most comfortable
way to carry that stuff. Tuneout all of the superficial idiots
on social media and just doyour thing. Do your thing, buddy.
If you need a littleinspiration to commit to your new
life as Vestman, I'll tell youthis. One of my number one favorite
ways to fuel on a long run isvia tater tots. Yeah, that's right.
(19:05):
Sweet, sweet carbs.Specifically, sweet potato tots.
Oh, yeah, And I suppose Icould just, you know, shove them
in my sports bra or something,but, man, there is nothing like running
free in a vest, just bulgingwith potato products and popping
them in my mouth all willynilly as I move through time and
space like, it is a beautifulexperience. And if anybody wants
(19:26):
to judge me for it, they couldjust go suck on expired goose for
the rest of eternity. Allright, well, Colin, we're gonna keep
marching this along here likethe efficient machine that we clearly
are, fueled by sweet potatotater tots. Lob another one at me.
All right, dear Gear Abby,I'll keep this quick. I know you're
(19:48):
a writer. What's your favoriteoutdoor book of all time? And don't
say it's wild. Signed, SaltyHaterade. All right, good name.
Okay, first of all, Rude Wildis a great book, and I will defend
its honor anytime. Haterade.Colin, you're not allowed to comment
on that.
That's true. It's probably apopular choice, I think, is what
(20:10):
Haterade is alluding to.
That's fine. You know what?Not all popular things are bad.
Popular things are popular fora reason.
Like what you like.
This is a little more of ahipster podcast, though.
Is it? Is it because I havebangs now? Did you Notice I have
sparkles in my bangs today.
Is that from this weekend?
It is. I went on an adventureweekend. It was a women's adventure
weekend where women were doingall these badass things like rock
(20:32):
climbing and mountain bikingand everything. And at the end of
one of the nights, somebodycame in and put their stuff silk.
They're apparently silksparkles. So I bring in the thunder
with my bang. So that's whatmakes this a hipster podcast, is
that I've got sparkle bangs,but also because I believe that we
can. Maybe it's. There'snothing more punk rock, perhaps,
than defending wild, but this.They're not asking me to defend wild.
(20:56):
They've actually asked me notto talk about it or mention it, so.
Well, then it be more punkrock for you to say, well, I am going
to talk about it.
Well, hater aid. All right,What I am going to do, though, I
am going to defy convention alittle bit here. I'm going to give
haterade two answers to this.So even though you did not ask me
for two answers to this, I'mgoing to do it because this is my
show and I'm going to do whatI want. Yeah. Plus, I'm an absolute
(21:20):
book nerd and I will take anyexcuse to wax poetic about things
between two pages, so. Or twocovers. There's many pages. All the
books I read, I want to beclear about have many pages. Okay.
Big fan of the two page books.
I think one of those hardcoverchildren's books is really what I
aim for. I read a lot. Yeah.All right. So here's my two part
(21:42):
answer to this. So first, myfavorite book that I've read outdoors.
So I'm taking that in adifferent direction. This is the
precursor. It's a tie betweenTravels with Charlie by John Steinbeck
and welcome to the Goddamn IceCube by Blair Braverman. Yeah. So.
So you just smuggled a thirdbook in, basically what you're saying
that's my.
Life is smuggling a third bookin. My mom. My mom was at my house
(22:06):
once and she looked at mybookshelves and then she looked at
the piles of books next to mybookshelf and then in my bedroom
and things. And she's like,you need to get rid of some of these.
I'm like, go home. Go to yourhome books.
Go write me more poo questions.
No, Please do. But let's goback. I want to go back. Have you.
First of all, have you readTravels with Charlie or welcome to
the Goddamn Ice Cube?
(22:27):
I have not.
Okay. Well, read them. Okay.So I read Charlie while I was on
the pct and I finished it upat a place called vbr. That is Vermilion
Valley Resort. It's a rusticmountain resort that's super hiker
friendly place. You could runa real big tab there if you want.
And it was during a rainstorm,like we were in this monsoonal flow.
(22:47):
And I had rented this old,like crusty, dusty, rusty rv and
I bought a box of wine fromthe general store at the resort.
And I just sat there and Ilike plowed through the second half
of this book. So very visceralmemory there from what I do remember
before I got too drunk. Andthen I read Ice Cube, the other book,
while I was on the Coloradotrail. And honestly, hearing how
(23:09):
miserable Northern Norway wasfor the author, Blair Braverman just
made me feel so much betterabout like the shit weather we were
having on the ct. So it was,it was great. I was like, thank you.
Your misery is so much worsethan mine. But we're not talking
about books that made me feelbetter about myself. You're asking
about Haterade, my favoriteoutdoor book. So I gotta say it's,
(23:34):
you know, it's like asking meto pick my favorite potato product.
So you may think it's sweetpotato tater tots right now, but
you don't know. Tomorrow itcould be crinkle cuts. So we'll say
for today I'm gonna go withthe Last Season by Eric Blem, which
scratches about a thousanddifferent itches for me.
So.
Have you read this one, Colin?
No.
Oh, buddy. Okay, this is agood one. Okay, so it's a. It's a
(23:58):
book club coming soon. I knowthat, you know, T shirt slogan, don't
give me new ideas.
Girabi's book club.
Jbc. Nope, we don't likeacronyms. All right, so anyway, the
last season, it's essentiallythe author's quest to figure out
what happened to this guy,long time backcountry ranger Randy
Morgenson, who disappearedwhile he was on duty at the Bench
(24:21):
Lake Ranger station in KingsCanyon National Park. And it's this
little. It's. It's not one ofthe cabins, actually. It's a little
like seasonal tent they putup. And it's kind of duck. It's hidden
in the trees. I was lookingfor it last summer. You could just
see a tiny corner of it. Butthe book, in this book, you have
it all. You've got fantasticdescriptions of the Sierra, back
country. If that's your thing.It's my thing, quite possibly my
(24:44):
favorite place on earth. Yougotta look at what it's really like
for rangers in thebackcountry. You've gotta delve into
this more, you know,emotional, esoteric sides of why
we go out to these places andgo deep out there. And then you have
this full on mystery like,where the hell is this guy? So, yeah,
I cannot recommend it enoughfor anybody who likes any of those
things. And of course, I couldread something that changes my mind
(25:04):
next week. I have no idea. Butfor now, the Last Season by Eric
Blem. But Colin, are youready? I am going to channel our
pal Haterade and ask you, doyou have a favorite outdoor book?
And don't say Into Thin Air orInto the Wild.
Can I say wild?
Yeah, yeah. Hayrid didn't tellyou you couldn't.
(25:26):
Into Thin Air is a good one.Into the Wild's good as well.
But you're not allowed to sayeither of them.
I'm not. I'm not. If I weregoing to take one from that camp
that I might say I would. ThePerfect Storm, I think is in that
same vein as those two. Ienjoyed that book. I have to throw
some love to Born to Run,because I did at the time, at the
(25:48):
time when it came out and thewhole barefoot running thing. And
it actually helped me changehow I run. And so I was part of that
era. I enjoyed that.
Were you out there in your barefoot?
I had my five fingers. I had afive fingers moment. I did. But we
have talked about my favoriteoutdoor book and it's a walk in the
woods.
Oh, that's right. We did talkabout that on the rock fight.
(26:09):
I love that book.
All right, old man.
My favorite book, though isNight Shift by Stephen King. So it's
his first collection of shortstories, which I love. I love a short
story.
I was gonna say you're gettingreal off topic here, but honestly,
that's a great book. Love it.I wouldn't read it outdoors because
I'd be scared shitless, so.
Right. Not a good idea.
(26:30):
You know what is a good idea? Colin?
Another question.
One last question.
Oh, we had the last question.
You get one last question toask me today. One last chance to
hear wisdom. My fount ofwisdom. Bubble forth.
All right, last question ofthe first episode of Gear. Abbey.
Should I ask you if you'reready for the last episode of the
first episode. The lastquestion of the first episode.
(26:52):
Only if you're ready for thelast question of the first episode.
Is that a T shirt slogan? IDon't think so. All right. Dear Gear
Abby is using biodegradablesoap. Actually Leave no Trace sign.
Prodigy.
Ooh, prodigy. This is a greatquestion, actually, and one where
I think my answer might kindof piss some people off.
(27:14):
This would be a good one.
Yeah, maybe. You know, youknow how controversial soap is. Very,
very, very. Especially tothrough hikers and dirty, dirty pigs.
Not pig like you pig.Different kind of pig. Please leave
that snort in there first. I'mgonna, you know, encourage everybody
to take a moment, we're gonnatake a deep breath together and consider
(27:38):
the concept of Leave no Traceor lnt, as I will probably abbreviate
it here a few times. That'stwice now in one episode we've mentioned
Leave no Trace. For me, when Ithink about lnt, the heart of it
is essentially like aSuccessories poster. Do you remember
Those from the 90s?
These are the like, you can doit kind of things with a cat hanging
from the tree.
Yeah, there's like a lightningbolt and it's like, oh, achievement
(28:01):
or something.
Yes, yes. I had several ofthose, I believe that I got like
in a stocking stuffer at somepoint for Christmas. Like a little
small one.
They're too big to put in a stocking.
No, they had small. They hadlike desk size ones too.
Oh, just like tiny for mini successes.
That's right.
You can't.
You're not going to trust youto go really big. So we're going
to give you this tiny one.
We want to be realistic withyou, Colin.
(28:21):
We're setting some realisticgoals for you, kid.
You know, it's good. It's goodto under, like under expect and then
you can over deliver.
That's right.
Have you done that yet?
No.
Over delivered? No. You'reworking on it though. I see it.
I'm trying, I'm trying.
We'll build a podcast empiretogether. All right, so imagine this.
So Leave no Trace accessoriesposter in my mind is a picture of
(28:41):
a beach. Like the surf is justgently lapping. There's some imprints
of a human foot and it reads,take only photographs, leave only
memories. So in less posterfriendly form, though, I think, honestly,
LNT has kind of evolved intothis trail policing where it's less
about how you yourself act outthere and more about shaming people
(29:02):
for how they act out there.You know, we've even seen Instagrams
pop up over the years, thingslike that. But there is honestly
nothing that annoys me morethan preachiness instead of actual
education. So actually, acouple summers ago. I like to side
tangent here. It's related,but. But a couple summers ago, I
got to sort of see this inaction. I was hanging out at the
shore of Upper Cathedral Lake,which is in Yosemite National Park.
(29:24):
Beautiful lake. I was out witha couple other people I'd met. I
was doing a long trail and allof our tents were sort of tucked
back in the woods wherethere's some really good camping
and we're just hanging out bythe lakeshore. But there were. There
was this group of sort ofyounger women on their first backpacking
trip. And I knew they werenervous. I'd met them the night before
and they were kind of likenervous hikers. And their tents were
(29:44):
right, like butt up againstthe water, like they were like playing
mermaid or something. Theywere right there. And so I just,
I just walked over to say hisince I'd met them earlier. And one
of them did. She didn't evensay hi. She just immediately went
into guilt mode. She's like,please don't yell at us. I realize
we're probably not supposed tobe here and do you want us to move?
And I was like, hey, I'm notthe trail police. And I kind of gave
them my best gear. Abbey, bigsister of the mountains, talk and
(30:07):
like, hey, if you want toknow, here's some good practices
for the future, right? Like,here's an inviting conversation we
can have about how not tolike, fuck up the view for everyone
and how not to screw it up forall the animals that want to come
drink here tonight. Yada,yada, yada. Anyway, like not 10 minutes
later, Colin, some guy just iswandering through camp. He's got
his backpack on and he looksat me and he just like yells directly
(30:30):
at me, huh, the 100 mile, 100foot rule, I guess.
Oh, Jesus Christ.
I said, what? Mostly just outof like incredul, like incredulation.
Is that a word? I wasincredulous. I said, why, thank you.
Yeah, I'd like to make up newwords. All right, so this guy just
yell like yells full bore atme, fuck the 100 foot rule, I guess,
(30:50):
huh? And I just said what?Like I said, I was just shocked.
So what? You know, and mythree companions were all from outside
of the United States. Like,what's happening? Is this how Americans
act on trail? I'm like, well,sometimes in any. And he repeats
himself, right? He's like,yeah. And then he kind of adds a
sense about how we're tooclose to the water. And I was like,
hey, bro, our Tents are inthere. And I point over to the. Where
(31:11):
the trees are quite a distanceaway. He looks at me, he looks back
at the trees, walks in alittle bit like he didn't believe
me, sees the tents, walks backout, and he just says, whatever,
and walks away. It's like,okay, dude, people are allowed to
sit next to the water. Anyway,point being, we're going to get back
(31:31):
to the topic at hand here forProdigy. For me, Leave no Trace is
less about being a D bag toother people in the hopes that they'll
improve their outdoorbehavior, and more about thinking
about how you want to be inrelation to these places and the
people and the plants and allthat jazz that are also in those
places. So to get to Prodigy'sactual question, which is, is using
(31:51):
biodegradable soap actuallygood? Leave no Trace practice. Here's
the thing, you know, we'regetting tricked by a word here a
little bit is thebiodegradable bit actually happens
best in soil where thebacteria are going to help break
it down. Even biodegradablesoap, that's. That. That's receptive
to those bacteria. And water,even, that alters the water chemistry.
(32:15):
So it's generally not a goodthing for the flora and fauna living
in there. And you're. You'rebasically introducing a foreign substance
that wasn't there before, andit's going to linger. Things that
biodegrade can often takemonths. You know, if. If they're
pitched as beingbiodegradable. And a lot of people
don't realize that they canactually take months, some of them
take years. And really,anything can biodegrade over time.
(32:36):
So it's a bit of, like, in mymind, it's like a tiny bit of greenwashing,
if I'm being honest.
So, you know, Dr. Bronner's isa bunch of bullshit. Is that.
What's Dr. Bronner's? I mean,if you read all of the words on that
packaging, eventuallysomewhere he's like, but, you know.
Just pack your Pert plus, it's fine.
Yeah, Pert Plus. Wow. That islike that throwback reference 80s.
(32:56):
It is shampoo. But, yeah, Ithink. I really do think a lot of
people look at soaps labeledas, like, safe for backcountry use,
and they assume they can useit in water very specifically, because
think, what are people doingwith soap? They're using it with
water, they're washing dishes,they're washing their bodies. Who
knows what? And so they feellike, oh, I could just put the soap
back in the water source. Ican bathe in the water. Like you
can't do that, man. You'repolluting the water if you do that.
(33:19):
Putting something in there, itdoesn't belong there, kind of screws
up the biome for everythingthat does belong in there. So for
me personally, I tend toforego soap in the backcountry. I
mean a, Because I am just anabsolute dirty, feral marmot girl.
But also because I just don'tfeel great about leaving soap film
on things, including theground. And that's not going to make
(33:40):
it into our successoriesposter. The successories poster is
not, you know, take onlyphotographs, leave only soap film.
So when I do, I mean it's.There's, there's probably someone
who would like that poster.It's not me, it's Dr. Bronner himself.
But when I do use soap, whichis usually to clean my butt when
I'm using a bidet after a poo,we're gonna bring it back to poop
(34:03):
full circle. I love it. Icarry a tiny, tiny, like a teeny
tiny amount of Dr. Bronner's.It's in a teeny tiny dropper bottle.
I think I got it fromLightsmith or Garage Grown Gear or
something like that. Like thetiniest of dropper bottles and I
use an even tinier amount. Onedrop is all you need. That stuff
is super potent. If you'veever used it, you know how much it
suds up and you can never getthe suds to go away. One drop before
(34:25):
I rinse the soapy water, youwant to kind of concentrate it all
in one spot. You don't want toactually scatter it. No matter what
you were taught in Scouts backin the day about just like flinging
your food scraps everywhere.Because all that's doing is creating
this kind of like scatteredbuffet of things for the animals.
So. So just kind of keep itconcentrated so it's not just this
big ass buffet of scents. Andyeah, I don't use soap to clean my
(34:46):
dishes on trail. I don't dothat till I get into town. Like I
just lick my dishes clean. Iput water and swoop it around and
drink it. I'm dehydrated ashell out there every day, so I could
use the extra water. And Idon't use soap really to clean anything
other than my butthole. It'sjust a splash of water and a bandana
are fine for me. You know, outthere sweating. I'm just constantly
recycling my own filth anyway.So you know, I'm pretty feral out
(35:08):
there, and I'm fine with it.You know, whether or not that's fine
with other people and anyonearound me is a different story, but
I don't really care. That's itfor this episode of Gear Abby. Until
next time, send your burningquestions, but not your burning buttholes
about your relationships withoutdoor products, people, places
and pastimes to usover@myrockfightmail.com and I will
(35:33):
do my best to answer them, orI'll find someone else who can. Today's
episode was produced by DavidKarstad and Colin True, our resident
pig. Art direction wasprovided by Sarah Gensert. And I'm
Chante Salibair here, Abby.And remember, there are no dumb questions,
just smart advice.