August 11, 2023 • 39 mins
With us today, we have Dr. Dorian Minzer, a renowned speaker, author, therapist, and coach, who will guide us in embracing our mid-life transitions with intentionality and purpose. She illuminates the path to crafting our midlife years into a vibrant mosaic, not merely of existence, but of purpose and fulfillment. Dr. Minzer enlightens us on the significance of a growth mindset and how it fosters connection, engagement, and gives life a deeper meaning. She also shares her unique perspective on leaving a legacy, assuring us it doesn't need to be monumental, but memorable.
Dorian Mintzer Books on Amazon
https://revolutionizeretirement.com/
In midlife it's critical to understand the core values and priorities that shape our individual perspectives. This episode unpacks how to transform these insights into a purpose-driven existence. We learn how to nurture positive psychology, practice forgiveness, and cultivate a resilience that can weather life's storms. It's about living a life designed around your purpose and values, and we share practical steps to achieve this.
Finally, we address the practical side of midlife, focusing on finances, health, and relationships. Financial literacy is a must, and we discuss how to navigate money conversations within relationships and confront money messages from our past. Dr. Minzer provides valuable insights into maintaining health and wellness in mid-life, striking a balance between physical and emotional wellbeing. As a bonus, she touches on the power of mindfulness and meditation in creating meaningful connections with ourselves. So, tune in and let's journey together, equipping ourselves with the tools to navigate life's transitions with purpose and intention.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kyle (00:00):
I'm just going to read this.
I'll probably re-record thisbecause I know I'll mess it up
in front of you, but I'll justread it to make sure that it
sounds good to you, and thenwe'll just get into it.
Okay, so today we're honored tohave Dr Dorian Minzer Minzer,
yes you're right, dr.
Dorian (00:15):
Dorian.
Kyle (00:15):
Minzer, thank you.
A distinguished speaker, author, therapist and coach who has
devoted her career to helpingindividuals shape their bonus
years into a vibrant mosaic ofpurpose and fulfillment, with a
profound belief in theuniqueness of each individual,
dorian's journey has been atestament to embracing life's
opportunities and challengeswith intention.
She's the co-author of thecouple's retirement puzzle 10
(00:37):
Must have Conversations forcreating an amazing new life
together and the host ofRevolutionize your Retirement
Radio Podcast.
Welcome to the show, dorian, soglad you are here.
Dorian (00:49):
Thank you, Kyle.
Thanks for inviting me.
Kyle (00:52):
You are welcome.
Could you start by just givingour listeners some insight into
your background and how youbecame interested in our topics
today?
Dorian (00:59):
Sure, you know I've always been interested in people
, in life transitions, because,when you think about it, we have
transitions throughout our life, yeah, probably from the moment
we're born, although we may notbe as conscious of those.
And with my interest intransitions, I had gotten my
very first therapy, a master'sand social work degree back in
(01:20):
1970, and was really interestedin working with individuals and
groups.
And then began, you know,working more with people, just
in different life stages then,and they seemed to have
paralleled my own life stages.
And then I ended up in themid-70s getting my PhD and doing
(01:42):
more work with individuals andwith couples and got a coaching
degree and I'm one of what'scalled the leading edge boomers.
So back in 2006, you know,everybody was turning 60.
And there was this whole hypeabout, you know, 10,000 people a
day were turning 60.
And so, you know, around thattime or in preparation for it, I
(02:06):
realized that being 60 wasdifferent from like in my
parents' generation when 60 wasreally old.
Yes, and you know, reallystudying in preparation for my
own being 60, learning as muchas I could about adult
development, about life planning, about positive psychology, and
so it sort of morphed intoworking with people second half
(02:29):
of life.
But I still love working withyounger people too, because I
think each life transitioninforms how we're going to
approach this one, you know, andsome people have more trouble
with endings, you know, with theletting go, with the making
space for something new.
Some have more trouble with thein-between, the neutral,
(02:50):
unknown, the messy middle it'soften called, and some with the
new beginning.
And so you know, I just loveworking with people in life
transitions.
So that's how I got to helpingpeople navigate the second half
of life.
Kyle (03:04):
Oh yes, your approach really resonates with me.
I found your approach towell-being and being intentional
, you know, to be really helpfuland really to be inspiring,
really.
So this might be a grandquestion, but how would you
describe the ideal mindset forapproaching midlife?
And, you know, contributingthat, contributing to our
overall well-being.
Dorian (03:26):
Well, a few things.
That's a really, really goodquestion.
A couple of things when youthink about it.
Work and also active parentingprovides some connection,
engagement, purpose and meaning,some structure to life, a
reason to get out of bed in themorning, usually, self-esteem,
(03:50):
sense of community, meaningfulrelationships, a sense of kind
of agency that you matter, andso I think it's helpful, at
whatever your age, to begin tothink about what's the structure
, what are the roles that workwell for you, whether it be
parenting, whether it be working, and to think about as you
(04:11):
anticipate maybe working in adifferent way or not working, or
kids are launched.
If you have them, what, what?
How will you build connection,engagement and purpose and
meaning into your life?
I think, that that's a reallyimportant aspect to think about
(04:31):
and I think advice I would giveto listeners who are probably in
not the second half of life yetwould be to try throughout life
to have what's called a growthmindset.
A growth mindset is reallywanting to learn, you know,
wanting to be the best we can be.
You know, without you know,denying reality, that we all age
(04:54):
.
Some of us age better thanother people, some have genetic
aspects, but generally there area lot of parts of life we can
have some control over, likeexercising our body and brain,
good nutrition, meaningfulrelationships, spirituality,
connection, engagement, purposeand meaning.
I can't stress that you knowenough.
(05:16):
And a growth mindset is beingopen to yourself and your own
possibilities, rather thanwhat's called a fixed mindset,
where you maybe believe thestereotypes that society has for
you.
Regardless, it could be genderbased, it could be age based.
We live in a society wherethere's a lot of ageism.
I mean, there are a lot of isms, but we have a lot of ageism
(05:40):
which is really a prejudiceagainst being older, which is
actually a prejudice against ourfuture self.
Kyle (05:47):
That's right, if we're lucky, we're going to get older.
Yeah.
Dorian (05:51):
You know, and sometimes we internalize that, so it's so
easy.
You know, for example, whenyou're 40 or 50 or 60 thinking
oh my gosh, I am so old now it'sall downhill and you believe
that it will be.
So it becomes important to havethis growth mindset, to know
it's not a chronological age.
It's how we learn.
(06:13):
You know what our ideas areabout ourself and how, what our
relationship is to other people,to the planet, to the world,
and how do we want to engage init, how do we want to be
remembered too.
You know we all want to beremembered, in tiny or bigger
ways.
Now is the time, with thatgrowth mindset at whatever age
(06:37):
you are, you know to think morepositively that you matter, that
you can make a difference.
If you believe that and if youdon't, there's a slippery slope
of kind of going downhill thatunfortunately people can go into
at whatever age.
Kyle (06:56):
Yes, so well said.
I mean, as you say, that itmakes me think of you know, our
bodies and brains are differentthan when we were younger and
you know, like you said, wethink we're on an incline in a
certain stage of life and thenmaybe we're on a decline.
But really it's accepting thatand I, when I listen to your
work and read your works, it'staking small steps towards A
(07:19):
more purposeful steps, I guess Iwould say towards what you
really want, and to recognizethat we are not a decline.
We take small steps each daytowards what you really want.
But the trick can be kind ofwhat do we really want?
You know, and that's a reallyopen in the question, and I
really like some of you, likewhat you write or your kind of
framework For making some ofthose decisions.
(07:41):
Could you talk a little bitmore about that?
Dorian (07:44):
yeah, I think.
I think it really is importantto think about what is important
to you, what are your values,what are your dreams, what are
your strengths.
I think that it's I like theframework of puzzle.
It's part of why the book thatI co-authored has the title
couples retirement puzzle and Ido want to mention to readers
(08:06):
it's Although it's written forcouples, it's really for anybody
, and the person who wrote theforward actually said he thought
it should be given to newlywedsNot that newlyweds are thinking
about retirement, but it's allabout how to communicate about
important issues right.
I like puzzle because it's averb and a noun and it's a
framework that I use.
So there are many things weneed to puzzle out For ourself,
(08:30):
and if you're in a relationshipor friends or whoever's
important in your life, it'sgood if they could puzzle it out
so you each can create your ownvision of what's important.
You know what's not important,what you'd like to do, if
possible, some things youdefinitely don't want to do, and
have whoever's part of yourlife journey do a similar vision
(08:52):
creation and then you figureout and try to create a shared
journey and talk about where aretheir similarities, where are
they aligned, where are theydifferent, what are some things
to do together or separately?
So that's the verb part, thepuzzling it out.
The other part that I like isthat there are many aspects of
our life that are like puzzlepieces.
(09:13):
You know they're not going tofit together perfectly like a
jigsaw puzzle, but they doimpact each other.
So, for example, things likefinances, things like health and
wellness those are two big onesthat I think impact many other
lifestyle choices and I'm abeliever, no matter how much or
(09:34):
how little money you have, it'shelpful to talk with a life
planner, and particularly onewho's what's called a holistic
life planner that isn't asinterested in just the number
but really wants to help youthink about money as a tool and
how you want it to help you havethe kind of lifestyle you want
and health and wellness.
I mean, we can't totally controlit there's a Some interesting
(09:59):
literature that in research thatsays by the time we're sixty
five, thirty percent is genetics.
Seventy percent are things wecan have some control over.
I mean, if you've got thethirty percent genetics, you
need to deal with that.
But attitude still can make abig difference in how you deal
with whatever.
You know.
You know card, you draw in theluck of genetics.
(10:22):
But the seventy percent arethings I just mentioned before
the healthy eating Exercise inyour mind and brain meaningful
relationship, self esteem,connection, engagement, purpose
and meaning giving back.
So they're all these puzzlepieces.
So again, health and wellnessand finances are two big ones.
But other ones are Expectationsof yourself or whoever's
(10:47):
important in your life timetogether, time apart.
Even in the best relationshipsit's better not to just be
joined at the hip.
I think covid sort of forcedthat someone.
But you know, I think it reallyis good to know that we need
time together and time apart.
You know, if you're in arelationship, expectations kind
(11:09):
of the role, relationships,relationship and obligation to
family.
We live in such a changingdemographic world.
There's some people who arepartnered and not married.
There are many people who arejust deciding to grow older
alone, called solo ages.
There are people in long termrelationships.
They're newly married couples.
(11:32):
You know my family, your family, blended family, children, no
children.
You know same sex, heterosexual, it's all you know.
There's so many variations.
But within that you know,really needing to figure out you
know how do we want to live ourlife in the best of
relationships, we still needother friends, we need a social
life and community.
It's important to think aboutwhat ways to get back at,
(11:58):
whatever age, I mean we live onthis shared planet and trying to
feel, you know, part of it, youknow where we want to protect
it for future generations.
And one of you know, in smallways, bigger ways, you know, try
to be part of that.
Thinking about end of lifeissues, wishes a lot of people
don't want to think aboutmortality.
I think knowing that, as far aswe know, we all have the same
(12:25):
and that we're going to at somepoint die, I think actually that
makes life even more precious.
You don't want to necessarilydwell on, you know, kind of the
end point, but I think the endpoint can inform you to.
You know, to make sure you'vegot things in order, no matter
what your age, have a will, haveyour documents and documents in
order, have a Health care proxy.
It's like liberating and it'san act of love for whoever the
(12:46):
survivors are to be able to doit.
And once you've done it, youknow you can put it away but
then revisit it periodically,like a financial portfolio, you
know.
So you let yourself sort of seewhat's changed in your values
or priorities along the way.
(13:07):
Spirituality is an importantthing, and I don't necessarily
mean religion when I sayspirituality.
For some people it may be that,for others it just may be a
sense of how, how am I in thisuniverse?
You know how?
How am I interconnected tonature, to everything around me?
And often, as we get older,there are shifts to really
(13:31):
trying to figure out what it's.
What is it all about?
So if you are a spiritualperson mindfulness, different
ways of wanting to cultivatethat, that's great.
It's never too late to developthat part.
An attitude makes such adifference.
There's another study that saysthat a positive attitude about
(13:53):
aging and growing older actuallycan give us seven and a half
more years of life.
And that doesn't mean aPollyanna attitude, I mean no
matter how well we take care ofourselves, we're going to age.
It's always.
I think it's always importantto still have dreams and hopes
and goals.
You may have to shift them.
You know your body doesn't wantyou to be high altitudes or you
(14:14):
know as much hiking then findplaces to walk.
You know intergenerationalconnections, I think, are so, so
important and sort of tied intowhat I mentioned before.
You know there really arestudies that people who have
multiple chronic illnesses orterminal illnesses still can
(14:35):
have a very positive attitudeAbout life.
We may not be able to changeevents that have happened to us,
but we can have some impact onhow we respond to it.
And you know we always have ourstory to keep telling and we
can change our story.
We don't have to be a victim.
You know just things thathappened in our past that were
(14:57):
hard.
We can, you know, kind of workit through in a transformative
way to grow and be resilient andyou know, and hold on to
gratefulness and forgivingourselves and others.
It's all the positivepsychology part that I think is
so, so important, you know, ohyes, and well researched and
just a healthy way of living andbeing.
(15:18):
I believe you know and just toreiterate what you said, for me
it's really helpful to have thatframework, that puzzle like
these are four main priorities.
It's freezing a little bit here.
Kyle (15:29):
Oh sorry, dorian, I'll just pause.
Dorian (15:34):
I think you froze and it may look like I froze.
Kyle (15:37):
I still see you.
How are we now?
Are we better?
Are we better?
Dorian Shoot, I'm still here.
How are you?
Dorian (16:00):
I'm not hearing you now, Kyle.
Kyle (16:04):
Okay, I'm.
Dorian (16:06):
Oh, now I am Good.
Kyle (16:08):
Great.
Dorian (16:09):
Just one of those glitches of the world there we
can edit out, right you know allabout that.
Oh good, I do.
So that's good.
Kyle (16:16):
Okay, I just wanted to.
I'll go back and just want tosay that it's so well said.
As I entered that section withyou, you know it's kind of vague
.
What are my priorities, whatareas are really important?
And that gives a really niceframework for areas to really
focus on and apply your purposeand values to.
Could you talk a little bitmore, give some examples, about
(16:39):
how people apply purpose andvalues to the puzzle pieces?
You know how they use theirpurpose and values to design
those areas of their life.
Dorian (16:49):
Sure.
So, sort of thinking back to anearlier question tied into this
one, kyle, you know, sometimespeople sort of say I don't know
what gives me purpose.
And it Purpose doesn't have tobe with a big capital P, it can
be a little P.
So regardless of your age, itmay be helpful to kind of think
(17:10):
about as you're growing up, werethere things that really you
did, things that became hobbies,people you admired that did
things.
What were they?
You know, as you're kind ofgoing through life, have there
been things that interest youthat you've had to put aside
Because there's just not timefor it.
(17:30):
So it's helpful, at differentstages of a life, to resurrect
some of those ideas you know andto think about, you know, what
are things that kind of make myjuices flow, what are things
that excite me, that you knowwhere I feel connected and let
yourself think about.
What is it that makes me comealive, what is it that the world
(17:53):
needs?
And sometimes that helps youbegin to think about what the
purpose is.
It can be nurturing in arelationship.
It can be, you know, dealingwith parents, siblings, nieces,
nephews.
It can be volunteering.
It can be being engaged in acause that's important to you.
It could be political, it couldbe a societal.
(18:15):
You know, the planet, climatechange, there's no right way.
But what I do find is that themore we feel like we matter, you
know that we can make adifference for ourselves and
others.
Even a smile and kindness, youknow, goes a long way and can
(18:36):
help you feel a sense of purpose.
So you know, and there hasactually been some research
saying that you know, peopleoften will talk about maybe when
they're not working, or notworking in the same way that
they're going to volunteer.
Studies show that some peoplecan start new things later and
many do start now.
You know, oftentimes it can beso rewarding at whatever phase
(19:00):
of life you are now.
But to think about you knowwhat are things I really believe
in a lot, what might be little,tiny ways that I can give back
at whatever age I am now.
Maybe volunteering, you know,might be sending a check.
You know there's no right way,but take that with you, develop
(19:21):
it now.
And I always say to peopleretirement is changing.
It's not so much a destination,it's more a transition and a
journey, and it's helpful tothink about what you're retiring
to and what you're going totake with you, what retires with
you or doesn't retire in thesense of needing to stop, but
maybe there's, you know, causesor things that you want to get
(19:42):
involved with now that you'llhave more time for later.
So you know, I do think, andI've often found that you know
people who aren't working, oraren't working in the same way,
may have the initial honeymoonperiod, but then it can be a few
months later, or years orwhatever.
(20:03):
Oftentimes people saysomething's missing and I think
what I discover is that what'smissing is that connection,
engagement and purpose andmeaning.
So don't be frightened by theterm purpose.
It doesn't have to be a big,big P.
Just what makes you come alive,what's a way that you know,
what's a part of you you want todevelop, maybe a way to get
(20:26):
back.
Kyle (20:27):
Yeah, that's a great way to say it, and it feels like, as
we talk about it, it puts youon solid footing for some of
your planning and problemsolving.
You know, taking advantage ofthose areas where you feel
strong in, and then you know itall goes together in terms of
then building up some of thoseareas that you're not feeling as
on solid footing about.
(20:48):
For example, people might notin midlife, may not be feeling
as on solid footing aboutfinances, and so I'd kind of
like to speak to some of theseareas, to people who might be
feeling that way about finances.
What are some guidelines orexamples that people in mid-age
should consider if they're notfeeling great about where their
(21:09):
finances are at this time intheir life?
Dorian (21:13):
So again, a really good question.
I think it's never too earlyand never too late to think
about finances.
It's often helpful and again itcan be with you know, a friend,
a partner, a sibling or and ora financial planner.
It's helpful to think aboutwhat were the money messages
(21:34):
that you had in the past.
How was money handled growingup?
You know, sometimes in goodways, sometimes not.
So it's helpful to think aboutwhat are the money messages that
you carry with you that mightbe helpful and might be getting
in your way.
So how was money talked about?
How was it spent?
(21:54):
Was there any emphasis onsaving, on investing?
It may help you kind of look atwhat areas you want to develop.
Sometimes people can alsobenefit from having what's
called a money dialogue.
This may seem sort of strangebut you know it's based on
what's called the style approach, which is externalizing a kind
(22:18):
of a part of ourselves.
So you can put money on a chair, for example, have a pillow
that's money and have a dialoguewith your money you know to be
able to talk about.
You know so money kind of.
You know how come you are sodifficult for me to deal with
and money might come back andsay well, look at what you do,
you crumple me up and you stickme in your purse and you don't
(22:38):
respect me at all.
You spend me as though you knowI'm growing on trees and I'm
not, and Just using that as anexample.
I mean, I do my money up andput it in my purse, but but have
a dialogue with money, andfreely I mean I, and this is at
whatever age.
I think it could be helpful Totalk to a financial person.
(22:59):
There also are some really greatfinancial literacy programs for
men and women.
What I have found, and maybeshifting the little cause, more
and more women are working inthe financial world.
But in my generation often themen were more in charge of the
money, many even admitting thatthey didn't really know what
(23:21):
they were necessarily doing, butit was just expected that they
be in charge and the womendeferred.
And it is important tounderstand that.
My, my interest in the moneysituation really developed when
my dad had died and my motherJust really was so dependent on
(23:42):
him financially and didn't evenreally kind of want to learn
about it, and this was likethirty, five, forty, almost
forty years ago now.
That got me really interestedin women and money and couples
and money.
There's some good literaryprograms.
It's empowering for men andwomen to learn what you can
about it.
Don't be afraid to say youdon't understand it.
You know there are so manyonline courses, as I said there,
(24:07):
these literacy programs.
None of us are born knowing itall and you know, I do think
it's helpful at whatever age tojust admit that maybe you had
some complicated money messagesfrom the past.
We also develop what are calledmoney personality types.
You know some people are savers, some are spenders.
You know it can be combinations.
Some you know our monks.
(24:28):
You know I don't want to spendanything, you know kind of very
frugal.
And what can happen in arelationship is, you know, you
may have a very differentpersonality, money personality
type and your partner and thatcan create conflicts.
So Money often people avoidconversations about it.
They avoid puzzling it out forthemselves and talking together.
(24:49):
I really encourage people to doit.
Don't be so afraid of it.
Often I say when I give talks,money, sex and death are sort of
tapering me.
I'm saying you can talk aboutall of them.
Yeah, avoiding it doesn'tchange what's actually there
underneath and you'll neverregret having a handle and a
plan on that.
Kyle (25:08):
Easy for me to say, but it's a great reminder to hear it
from you.
What about health?
I know in midlife, you knowit's stressful, there's a lot of
responsibilities.
Our bodies are aging.
What about those people thataren't feeling Good where
they're at with their health atthis point but they want to have
(25:30):
a longer, healthy life?
What words of wisdom would youshare to them?
Or how do you counsel yourclients In that situation.
Dorian (25:37):
Yeah, the first is noticing that and being aware of
it and mindful of first stepmight be actually talking to
your primary care doctor ornurse practitioners or you know
whoever is available to you.
You know, if you're not at afeeling at a good place in terms
of your body and exercising,first of all, therapy, coaching,
(26:00):
senior PCP, nutrition can behelpful.
You don't want to suddenlystart exercising if you haven't
done it, as though you've beendoing it forever.
Ties into the kind of the smallsteps.
You know it's, you know, maybeA little bit of money in there
to get a personal trainer, youknow, for, you know, an initial
(26:21):
consultation at least, and maybe, you know, at the beginning, on
a more regular basis to itbecomes sort of part of your
repertoire.
You don't want to overdo it tostart with.
You want to build up slowly,but no, you can build up again.
There's studies showing thateven in their 90s, people who
start being able to do some youknow, small amounts of exercise
(26:44):
can really help themselves.
And if, in fact, you know,people talk about wanting to age
well and all, exercise is suchan important part.
And what you eat, and you don'thave to do it alone, get a
buddy.
You know sometimes it's hard,but get a walking buddy or get a
buddy to go to the gym with.
Again, I think during COVID itwas harder, people were staying
(27:07):
inside.
I think walking maybe was oneof the few things you know
people could do.
But don't feel like if youhaven't been doing it it's too
late, it's not, it's never toolate.
I usually don't like to sayalways and never, but it's never
too late to you know.
I mean, I do think no matterwhat age you are, you can
(27:27):
benefit from starting to takecare of yourself.
But it's developing a new habit, and developing new habits take
time.
You might have to unlearn someold messages.
Some studies say it takes 21days to develop a new habit.
Others say it takes 90 days,maybe it's somewhere in between.
It takes time, no, and they'regoing to be.
(27:49):
You know, a few steps forwardand back and forward and back.
So when you know, say you'veexercised for a while and you're
starting to feel good and thenyou're at a plateau, it's easy
to give up and you might feellike it's back, but it's not all
the way back.
View the few steps back is justretuning, refueling and then
move forward again, I thinkasking for help is often hard
for people.
So I want to encourage yourlisteners.
(28:11):
It's not a weakness to ask forhelp, whether it be for a
therapist or coach, your medicalpractitioner, nutritionist, you
know, personal trainer.
We live in an interdependentworld and you know, I think the
idea of having to be so superindependent can work.
As a person, I mean, yes, wewant to have autonomy, we want
(28:39):
to be as able and capable as wecan, but you know, I think it
helps to think about, the worldis sort of interconnected and we
help each other.
Well said, that goes right intothe next area of relationships,
you know.
Kyle (28:57):
I know personally as a gen X or somebody in my late, late,
late late forties, I have sucha mix of relationships.
I have some relationships whereI was selfish and I hurt
somebody and there's regret overthat.
I have Long term relationshipsthat are really important to me.
I have work relationships, Ihave parent relationships with
(29:20):
other generations and it's it'sa mix, and so I guess I throw
that to you in terms of whatwould you say to people that may
not be feeling a strong thisarea?
They have some regret they'rehaving, they're not satisfied
with their relationships, or howcan they in building with,
building on other relationshipsthat are positive, and I'm kind
(29:41):
of throwing that wide open edge.
Dorian (29:45):
Sure, I think relationships are so important I
mean, again, I keep referringto studies, but there really
have been important studiesabout the importance of
relationships.
Many different levels of themis actually a more recent study
about.
You know, people in the lastdecade of life, say in their 90s
, late 90s, hundreds even andmany reflect on more than
(30:09):
anything meaningfulrelationships is what's
important.
What I think is important is,you know, if you get into this
fixed mindset of beatingyourself up, that is not helpful
.
So, again, I think the growthmindset becomes important here.
We all have a number ofdifferent relationships and we
all do make mistakes.
(30:29):
None of us are perfect and itoften is important, you know, to
let yourself reflect on some ofthe relationships, the good,
bad and the ugly and to thinkabout and maybe work with
yourself or with the help of atherapist or a coach or a new
partner or friend, you know, tryto take stock of what you bring
(30:53):
to the relationship, peoplethat bring things, and sometimes
people can bring out kind ofthe worst in each other and
sometimes people can bring outthe best in each other and you
know it's helpful to think aboutwhat you bring to a
relationship.
Are there any patterns to it,you know?
Are there ways, you know thatMaybe it's hard for you to
(31:15):
listen or really appreciatedifferences and you know kind of
get get stuck in your own wayif somebody disagrees with you.
I mean, what are the issues atwork?
I think self awarenessreflecting on it I mentioned
before.
I mean I think I think selfforgiveness as well as sometimes
(31:35):
, forgiveness of others, isreally very helpful and
important.
None of us are perfect.
We all make mistakes.
The important thing is to learnfrom the mistakes, also trying
to be grateful.
We could focus and maximize allthe negative things about
people and life and all of that.
(31:56):
That's a choice, or we can tryto not deny it, be aware of the
negatives but not magnify it somuch that we lose sight of what
are some positive learnings Ican have from it.
I can't change it.
But what can I learn from it?
There's a question that I likethat I pose to clients.
(32:19):
That's from George Kinder, whois still a financial life
planner.
He has three questions.
I love the last one and Imodified it a little and added
one little part that he thoughtwas helpful for it too, and this
may seem morbid to some of yourlisteners, but I think it's
very powerful.
(32:39):
It's not morbid.
Imagine that you went to yourdoctor who said you only have 24
or 48 hours to live.
At whatever age you are, whatwould you regret not having done
?
And then I've added or saidBecause I think the relationship
part is so important too, and Ithink it's a really important
(33:01):
and profound question, Iencourage your listeners to
think about it because it canbring you back to whatever age
you are now to say what are someof the things that are
relationships that I want torepair while I can, so I don't
have regrets at the end and someof them, the people may not be
(33:23):
alive anymore.
I'm a believer that you can dosome repairing, even by writing
a letter to somebody who's nolonger here, because the being
able to write and reflect andlook at the part you bring and
being able to own your truth oryour perception of it, which may
be different from others, canbe really helpful If the person
(33:44):
is still alive and there is awish to try to repair that
relationship.
Don't keep putting it off, andit may be hard.
There's things called gratitudeletters, where you can write a
letter thanking somebody for theimpact and importance that they
had in your life.
There also can be forgivenessletters where maybe you feel
(34:09):
like you've wronged somebody.
There's so many different waysif you think about it that it's
not like it has to be static.
I mean, if you knowrelationships, that area is not
one that you do well in get somehelp.
Certainly there's so manyself-help books and programs and
also helpful both therapistsand coaches out there, but it
(34:34):
does mean admitting that none ofus are perfect.
We all have strengths.
We all have limitations.
Sometimes strengths can even belimitations.
But if you want to live yourbest life, try to make it that
way by owning your own part inwhat you bring to relationships.
(34:54):
Maybe, if you're in a newrelationship and it's
problematic, maybe it'simportant for them to get go to
get some help for it.
Kyle (35:03):
Yeah.
Dorian (35:03):
Yeah.
And not be afraid to do that.
Kyle (35:06):
Go ahead.
I'm sorry, adorene, you need togo to earlier.
That is so wonderfully said.
Thank you for that.
It clicked for me as you weretalking about that.
As you were talking that growthmindset really facilitates
humility in relationships.
I know you can be defensivewhen somebody is open with you
or communicate something thatmay be hard.
(35:27):
If you are recognizing that youcan change, I think that sets
you up for more humility andchange rather than an antidote
to some of that defensivenessthat we might have in
relationships.
That can really harmrelationships, I think.
Dorian (35:44):
And it's so easy to get caught in a relationship and
sort of win, lose my way, yourway.
Try to think of the win.
Win, open a space for therelationship, which is sometimes
it's your way, sometimes it'smy way.
Agree to disagree, butappreciate what you're hearing.
I think it's helpful.
Kyle (36:00):
Yeah, yeah.
One last area I wanted to talkabout within your puzzle
framework is spirituality.
You touched on that earlier,but let's go deeper.
For those that maybe strugglingin this area, what are some
things you would say to thosepeople?
Dorian (36:17):
So again, spirituality doesn't have to be this big S
that feels so scary to people.
It really is looking inward, ina sense, and letting yourself
reflect.
It's often helpful to thinkabout what are three to five
things I'm proud of.
What are some things that werepeak experiences?
(36:38):
Why?
Let yourself be outside innature and see if you can turn
off the devices and stuff andjust walk and notice and be
mindful and observe.
That's the beginning ofallowing yourself to open to the
spiritual ie, what's inside ofyou, and it helps us often just
(37:00):
realize the interconnection thatwe all have.
There are many people talk aboutmindfulness and meditation.
I think those all can be veryimportant things.
They're wonderful meditationtapes.
Generally, in most communitythey're insight meditation
(37:21):
centers.
There's a number of differentapps that people talk about.
I think Headspace is one.
They're a number.
One of the benefits of theinternet is you can Google any
of these topics and be led tosomething.
You can experiment with somemeditation tapes and work on
(37:41):
letting yourself relax, one partthat I recommend to everybody.
I was trained in the relaxationresponse like maybe 40 plus
years ago.
The first part of it is thebreathing, which is just knowing
.
We all breathe, of course, butdeep breathing.
Your listeners can try it rightnow.
(38:03):
Just take a deep breath inthrough your nose, hold it for
four to five seconds and thenexhale through your mouth and
take another deep breath and asyou exhale, just silently to
yourself, just say relax.
And it can be any message youwant to say to yourself, but as
(38:26):
you exhale it can be relax, itcan be be present, it can be
push away distracting thoughtsor feelings, it can be feel your
inner strength.
Don't react, act.
All these messages can behelpful.
And what I recommend to people,which was recommended to me many
years ago, is like once an hour, if you can just and it can be
(38:49):
more often if you tend torealize you tend to be a
reactive person or you getanxious, or you know you're
depressed or whatever, just takea couple of moments for a
couple of breaths that justcenter you.
Your eyes can be open if peopleare around.
They can be closed.
If the once an hour or everyhalf hour or whatever doesn't
(39:09):
work, many people say try it ata time of transition.
So when you finished aconversation or before you're
going to start one, or when youstand up or when you go into a
different room.
The more that you allow yourselfto just still yourself a little
, to quiet yourself a little,you center yourself and you can
(39:31):
discover huh, you know, you canlet yourself, maybe begin to
feel some feelings that are inthere.
I think that's the beginning ofopening yourself to yourself
and spirituality.
So it's a deeper connectionboth with yourself.
But it is humbling, as you said, it can be just realizing we're
one little part in this.
I mean, I think for me, beingout in nature, I mean I find
(39:54):
walking and appreciating andreally feeling gratitude of well
, I'm just looking outside mywindow right now just how
beautiful the world is, and youknow that is part of
spirituality.
So don't be afraid of it.
You know for some it has areligious connotation, for
others it's just part of like,what's it all about?
(40:16):
Why am I here?
What's you know?
And not that anybody's going tohave all the answers, but
sometimes it's just soothing andfeels so wonderful to just know
you're not alone, we're part ofthis big wide universe.
Kyle (40:33):
I love that perspective.
So much the puzzle, theframework, the mosaic, the
midlife mosaic as I'd like tocall it.
It becomes clearer as we thinkabout these things and start to
move forward with some of theseideas and find what works for us
as we kind of get towards theend here, dorian, what are some
practical steps that you wouldsuggest for people seeking to
(40:55):
craft this midlife mosaic?
Dorian (40:59):
Well, I think there are a number of things.
I think the beginning is to letyourself reflect about yourself
and your life.
There's a wonderful littleexercise you can do which is
kind of a life review.
You can take a piece of paperand write it, have a line in the
middle and put the year youwere born and maybe put 100
years at the end and do it insegments of 10 years.
(41:21):
You can do it in a number ofways.
You can write down what werethe life events that were going
on around you, what were thefamily events going on around
you, what were meaningfulexperiences in your life during,
say, the first 10 years, nextdecade, next next.
That can be helpful because itcan again help you sometimes
(41:44):
look and appreciate, sometimesthe good, bad and the ugly, but
knowing you can't change things,but looking at how you've dealt
with them.
So I think, taking time toreflect, there really are a lot
of helpful books out there.
The internet can have good partsand not so good parts, but if
(42:06):
you Google any of the thingswe're talking about meditation,
spirituality, financial literacy, money conflicts, money issues,
all of those things there's awealth of resources.
I know on my website I havesome resources in these
different areas, but don't beafraid to just open yourself to
(42:28):
say I really do want to live mylife as fully as possible.
So I want to open to theconfusions and the uncertainties
and maybe come up and deal withsome of the things that really
feel like they're maybe stillholding you back.
There are therapists out there,there's coaches out there,
(42:48):
there are different group kindof programs.
So I guess what I wouldencourage someone to do is don't
be afraid of taking stock ofyour life now, at whatever age
you are, and really thinkingabout what would be some steps I
can do.
Another little thing that can behelpful is that you put the
(43:09):
different areas it could be the10 must have conversations I
have like finances, health andwellness, spirituality, family
connections.
Make yourself like a littlegraph.
It can be a circle or it can bepillars, and then so put on the
bottom health and wellness,finances, friendships,
relationships, family, whatever,and then on the side, do zero
(43:35):
to 10.
And just sort of see where youare now.
Maybe right now, in terms ofhealth and wellness, you're at a
two, so then, and then do itfor each of those areas and
you'll have like a little graph.
And so then you might want tothink okay, I put it at a two.
Why is health and wellness at atwo?
What would make it a two and ahalf?
(43:57):
Not what will make it a 10,because that's expecting you to
go from A to Z and you can't.
What would make it a two and ahalf?
Maybe just even starting toexercise, maybe calling a
trainer?
What would make it a two and ahalf?
The same in the finances, whatwould say you have yourself at a
four?
What would make it a four and ahalf or a five?
(44:17):
What would be the next step?
That is, looking and trying tofind some financial literacy.
Maybe it is asking friends forsuggestions or family members
for suggestions of a financialperson to talk to.
But in each situation, whatwould be the next little step
that could help you move alongand then periodically reassess.
(44:40):
And again, I do think littlesteps give you mastery.
That gets you another step andanother.
If you try to do too much, youset yourself up to disappoint
yourself and maybe fail.
So be realistic.
Kyle (44:54):
Oh, that's such a great way to tie it all together,
dorian you know straightforward,visual, small steps and and and
just making like I'm bumblingthrough this.
I'll edit this out, but that's.
I love how you tied that alltogether.
That was really reallywonderful, as we kind of come to
a close here.
Are there any other resourcesyou would recommend for our
(45:16):
listeners seeking to learn moreor to create their midlife
mosaic?
What resources do you recommendout there, and what do you
offer as well for people thatare interested in learning more?
Dorian (45:25):
So there are a lot of resources.
There is what's called theModern Elder Academy, or MEA,
has a location in Baja in Mexico, and they'll be developing one
in San Jose.
There are programs that areonline so people can look at
Modern Elder Academy.
There are other programs, youknow.
(45:46):
People can look for coaches,people can look for midlife
career transitions.
In terms of what I can offer, Iencourage people to go to my
website,revolutionizedretirementcom.
It may focus somewhat on theretirement and getting older,
but I think it's applicable atwhatever age.
(46:07):
I offer coaching, therapy,speaking workshops.
There's a retirement coachesassociation.
I know your people aren'tnecessarily interested in
retirement, but it is helpful tothink about the things ahead.
There's so many differentprograms.
I do have some resources on mywebsite.
(46:29):
I must admit that it's nottotally up to date because
there's so many newer thingsthat come.
I also have a free monthlyinterview with expert series.
Some of it has to do withretirement and aging, some have
to do with just living.
The sign up always is the weekbefore, so the third week of the
(46:50):
month, the sign up onrevolutionizedretirementcom it's
always Tuesday at noon, Easterntime, except for December
because it's too close to theholiday.
Once you sign up.
It's free and it's open toprofessionals and the public.
Once you sign up, you get arecording link afterwards.
In addition, I have a podcastseries to celebrate.
(47:11):
I'm now in my 11th year of thisinterview series.
To celebrate the 10th year Istarted putting out on podcasts
the earlier interviews.
They're all free.
I would encourage yourlisteners.
You can scroll through them andsee what interests you.
Kyle (47:28):
Incredible.
They definitely interest me andI know what I'll be doing
tonight.
Dory, this has been so helpful,so thoughtful and so insightful
.
I want to really thank you fortaking the time to be with us
and thank you so much for beingon the show.
Dorian (47:44):
You're welcome.
Thank you for inviting me.
Kyle (47:48):
I'll stop us there.
I'm just going to read this.
I'll probably re-record thisbecause I know I'll mess it up
in front of you, but I'll justread it to make sure that it
sounds good to you, and thenwe'll just get into it.
Okay, so today we're honored tohave Dr Dorian Minzer Minzer,
yes you're right, dr.
Dorian (00:15):
Dorian.
Kyle (00:15):
Minzer, thank you.
A distinguished speaker, author, therapist and coach who has
devoted her career to helpingindividuals shape their bonus
years into a vibrant mosaic ofpurpose and fulfillment, with a
profound belief in theuniqueness of each individual,
dorian's journey has been atestament to embracing life's
opportunities and challengeswith intention.
She's the co-author of thecouple's retirement puzzle 10
(00:37):
Must have Conversations forcreating an amazing new life
together and the host ofRevolutionize your Retirement
Radio Podcast.
Welcome to the show, dorian, soglad you are here.
Dorian (00:49):
Thank you, Kyle.
Thanks for inviting me.
Kyle (00:52):
You are welcome.
Could you start by just givingour listeners some insight into
your background and how youbecame interested in our topics
today?
Dorian (00:59):
Sure, you know I've always been interested in people
, in life transitions, because,when you think about it, we have
transitions throughout our life, yeah, probably from the moment
we're born, although we may notbe as conscious of those.
And with my interest intransitions, I had gotten my
very first therapy, a master'sand social work degree back in
(01:20):
1970, and was really interestedin working with individuals and
groups.
And then began, you know,working more with people, just
in different life stages then,and they seemed to have
paralleled my own life stages.
And then I ended up in themid-70s getting my PhD and doing
(01:42):
more work with individuals andwith couples and got a coaching
degree and I'm one of what'scalled the leading edge boomers.
So back in 2006, you know,everybody was turning 60.
And there was this whole hypeabout, you know, 10,000 people a
day were turning 60.
And so, you know, around thattime or in preparation for it, I
(02:06):
realized that being 60 wasdifferent from like in my
parents' generation when 60 wasreally old.
Yes, and you know, reallystudying in preparation for my
own being 60, learning as muchas I could about adult
development, about life planning, about positive psychology, and
so it sort of morphed intoworking with people second half
(02:29):
of life.
But I still love working withyounger people too, because I
think each life transitioninforms how we're going to
approach this one, you know, andsome people have more trouble
with endings, you know, with theletting go, with the making
space for something new.
Some have more trouble with thein-between, the neutral,
(02:50):
unknown, the messy middle it'soften called, and some with the
new beginning.
And so you know, I just loveworking with people in life
transitions.
So that's how I got to helpingpeople navigate the second half
of life.
Kyle (03:04):
Oh yes, your approach really resonates with me.
I found your approach towell-being and being intentional
, you know, to be really helpfuland really to be inspiring,
really.
So this might be a grandquestion, but how would you
describe the ideal mindset forapproaching midlife?
And, you know, contributingthat, contributing to our
overall well-being.
Dorian (03:26):
Well, a few things.
That's a really, really goodquestion.
A couple of things when youthink about it.
Work and also active parentingprovides some connection,
engagement, purpose and meaning,some structure to life, a
reason to get out of bed in themorning, usually, self-esteem,
(03:50):
sense of community, meaningfulrelationships, a sense of kind
of agency that you matter, andso I think it's helpful, at
whatever your age, to begin tothink about what's the structure
, what are the roles that workwell for you, whether it be
parenting, whether it be working, and to think about as you
(04:11):
anticipate maybe working in adifferent way or not working, or
kids are launched.
If you have them, what, what?
How will you build connection,engagement and purpose and
meaning into your life?
I think, that that's a reallyimportant aspect to think about
(04:31):
and I think advice I would giveto listeners who are probably in
not the second half of life yetwould be to try throughout life
to have what's called a growthmindset.
A growth mindset is reallywanting to learn, you know,
wanting to be the best we can be.
You know, without you know,denying reality, that we all age
(04:54):
.
Some of us age better thanother people, some have genetic
aspects, but generally there area lot of parts of life we can
have some control over, likeexercising our body and brain,
good nutrition, meaningfulrelationships, spirituality,
connection, engagement, purposeand meaning.
I can't stress that you knowenough.
(05:16):
And a growth mindset is beingopen to yourself and your own
possibilities, rather thanwhat's called a fixed mindset,
where you maybe believe thestereotypes that society has for
you.
Regardless, it could be genderbased, it could be age based.
We live in a society wherethere's a lot of ageism.
I mean, there are a lot of isms, but we have a lot of ageism
(05:40):
which is really a prejudiceagainst being older, which is
actually a prejudice against ourfuture self.
Kyle (05:47):
That's right, if we're lucky, we're going to get older.
Yeah.
Dorian (05:51):
You know, and sometimes we internalize that, so it's so
easy.
You know, for example, whenyou're 40 or 50 or 60 thinking
oh my gosh, I am so old now it'sall downhill and you believe
that it will be.
So it becomes important to havethis growth mindset, to know
it's not a chronological age.
It's how we learn.
(06:13):
You know what our ideas areabout ourself and how, what our
relationship is to other people,to the planet, to the world,
and how do we want to engage init, how do we want to be
remembered too.
You know we all want to beremembered, in tiny or bigger
ways.
Now is the time, with thatgrowth mindset at whatever age
(06:37):
you are, you know to think morepositively that you matter, that
you can make a difference.
If you believe that and if youdon't, there's a slippery slope
of kind of going downhill thatunfortunately people can go into
at whatever age.
Kyle (06:56):
Yes, so well said.
I mean, as you say, that itmakes me think of you know, our
bodies and brains are differentthan when we were younger and
you know, like you said, wethink we're on an incline in a
certain stage of life and thenmaybe we're on a decline.
But really it's accepting thatand I, when I listen to your
work and read your works, it'staking small steps towards A
(07:19):
more purposeful steps, I guess Iwould say towards what you
really want, and to recognizethat we are not a decline.
We take small steps each daytowards what you really want.
But the trick can be kind ofwhat do we really want?
You know, and that's a reallyopen in the question, and I
really like some of you, likewhat you write or your kind of
framework For making some ofthose decisions.
(07:41):
Could you talk a little bitmore about that?
Dorian (07:44):
yeah, I think.
I think it really is importantto think about what is important
to you, what are your values,what are your dreams, what are
your strengths.
I think that it's I like theframework of puzzle.
It's part of why the book thatI co-authored has the title
couples retirement puzzle and Ido want to mention to readers
(08:06):
it's Although it's written forcouples, it's really for anybody
, and the person who wrote theforward actually said he thought
it should be given to newlywedsNot that newlyweds are thinking
about retirement, but it's allabout how to communicate about
important issues right.
I like puzzle because it's averb and a noun and it's a
framework that I use.
So there are many things weneed to puzzle out For ourself,
(08:30):
and if you're in a relationshipor friends or whoever's
important in your life, it'sgood if they could puzzle it out
so you each can create your ownvision of what's important.
You know what's not important,what you'd like to do, if
possible, some things youdefinitely don't want to do, and
have whoever's part of yourlife journey do a similar vision
(08:52):
creation and then you figureout and try to create a shared
journey and talk about where aretheir similarities, where are
they aligned, where are theydifferent, what are some things
to do together or separately?
So that's the verb part, thepuzzling it out.
The other part that I like isthat there are many aspects of
our life that are like puzzlepieces.
(09:13):
You know they're not going tofit together perfectly like a
jigsaw puzzle, but they doimpact each other.
So, for example, things likefinances, things like health and
wellness those are two big onesthat I think impact many other
lifestyle choices and I'm abeliever, no matter how much or
(09:34):
how little money you have, it'shelpful to talk with a life
planner, and particularly onewho's what's called a holistic
life planner that isn't asinterested in just the number
but really wants to help youthink about money as a tool and
how you want it to help you havethe kind of lifestyle you want
and health and wellness.
I mean, we can't totally controlit there's a Some interesting
(09:59):
literature that in research thatsays by the time we're sixty
five, thirty percent is genetics.
Seventy percent are things wecan have some control over.
I mean, if you've got thethirty percent genetics, you
need to deal with that.
But attitude still can make abig difference in how you deal
with whatever.
You know.
You know card, you draw in theluck of genetics.
(10:22):
But the seventy percent arethings I just mentioned before
the healthy eating Exercise inyour mind and brain meaningful
relationship, self esteem,connection, engagement, purpose
and meaning giving back.
So they're all these puzzlepieces.
So again, health and wellnessand finances are two big ones.
But other ones are Expectationsof yourself or whoever's
(10:47):
important in your life timetogether, time apart.
Even in the best relationshipsit's better not to just be
joined at the hip.
I think covid sort of forcedthat someone.
But you know, I think it reallyis good to know that we need
time together and time apart.
You know, if you're in arelationship, expectations kind
(11:09):
of the role, relationships,relationship and obligation to
family.
We live in such a changingdemographic world.
There's some people who arepartnered and not married.
There are many people who arejust deciding to grow older
alone, called solo ages.
There are people in long termrelationships.
They're newly married couples.
(11:32):
You know my family, your family, blended family, children, no
children.
You know same sex, heterosexual, it's all you know.
There's so many variations.
But within that you know,really needing to figure out you
know how do we want to live ourlife in the best of
relationships, we still needother friends, we need a social
life and community.
It's important to think aboutwhat ways to get back at,
(11:58):
whatever age, I mean we live onthis shared planet and trying to
feel, you know, part of it, youknow where we want to protect
it for future generations.
And one of you know, in smallways, bigger ways, you know, try
to be part of that.
Thinking about end of lifeissues, wishes a lot of people
don't want to think aboutmortality.
I think knowing that, as far aswe know, we all have the same
(12:25):
and that we're going to at somepoint die, I think actually that
makes life even more precious.
You don't want to necessarilydwell on, you know, kind of the
end point, but I think the endpoint can inform you to.
You know, to make sure you'vegot things in order, no matter
what your age, have a will, haveyour documents and documents in
order, have a Health care proxy.
It's like liberating and it'san act of love for whoever the
(12:46):
survivors are to be able to doit.
And once you've done it, youknow you can put it away but
then revisit it periodically,like a financial portfolio, you
know.
So you let yourself sort of seewhat's changed in your values
or priorities along the way.
(13:07):
Spirituality is an importantthing, and I don't necessarily
mean religion when I sayspirituality.
For some people it may be that,for others it just may be a
sense of how, how am I in thisuniverse?
You know how?
How am I interconnected tonature, to everything around me?
And often, as we get older,there are shifts to really
(13:31):
trying to figure out what it's.
What is it all about?
So if you are a spiritualperson mindfulness, different
ways of wanting to cultivatethat, that's great.
It's never too late to developthat part.
An attitude makes such adifference.
There's another study that saysthat a positive attitude about
(13:53):
aging and growing older actuallycan give us seven and a half
more years of life.
And that doesn't mean aPollyanna attitude, I mean no
matter how well we take care ofourselves, we're going to age.
It's always.
I think it's always importantto still have dreams and hopes
and goals.
You may have to shift them.
You know your body doesn't wantyou to be high altitudes or you
(14:14):
know as much hiking then findplaces to walk.
You know intergenerationalconnections, I think, are so, so
important and sort of tied intowhat I mentioned before.
You know there really arestudies that people who have
multiple chronic illnesses orterminal illnesses still can
(14:35):
have a very positive attitudeAbout life.
We may not be able to changeevents that have happened to us,
but we can have some impact onhow we respond to it.
And you know we always have ourstory to keep telling and we
can change our story.
We don't have to be a victim.
You know just things thathappened in our past that were
(14:57):
hard.
We can, you know, kind of workit through in a transformative
way to grow and be resilient andyou know, and hold on to
gratefulness and forgivingourselves and others.
It's all the positivepsychology part that I think is
so, so important, you know, ohyes, and well researched and
just a healthy way of living andbeing.
(15:18):
I believe you know and just toreiterate what you said, for me
it's really helpful to have thatframework, that puzzle like
these are four main priorities.
It's freezing a little bit here.
Kyle (15:29):
Oh sorry, dorian, I'll just pause.
Dorian (15:34):
I think you froze and it may look like I froze.
Kyle (15:37):
I still see you.
How are we now?
Are we better?
Are we better?
Dorian Shoot, I'm still here.
How are you?
Dorian (16:00):
I'm not hearing you now, Kyle.
Kyle (16:04):
Okay, I'm.
Dorian (16:06):
Oh, now I am Good.
Kyle (16:08):
Great.
Dorian (16:09):
Just one of those glitches of the world there we
can edit out, right you know allabout that.
Oh good, I do.
So that's good.
Kyle (16:16):
Okay, I just wanted to.
I'll go back and just want tosay that it's so well said.
As I entered that section withyou, you know it's kind of vague
.
What are my priorities, whatareas are really important?
And that gives a really niceframework for areas to really
focus on and apply your purposeand values to.
Could you talk a little bitmore, give some examples, about
(16:39):
how people apply purpose andvalues to the puzzle pieces?
You know how they use theirpurpose and values to design
those areas of their life.
Dorian (16:49):
Sure.
So, sort of thinking back to anearlier question tied into this
one, kyle, you know, sometimespeople sort of say I don't know
what gives me purpose.
And it Purpose doesn't have tobe with a big capital P, it can
be a little P.
So regardless of your age, itmay be helpful to kind of think
(17:10):
about as you're growing up, werethere things that really you
did, things that became hobbies,people you admired that did
things.
What were they?
You know, as you're kind ofgoing through life, have there
been things that interest youthat you've had to put aside
Because there's just not timefor it.
(17:30):
So it's helpful, at differentstages of a life, to resurrect
some of those ideas you know andto think about, you know, what
are things that kind of make myjuices flow, what are things
that excite me, that you knowwhere I feel connected and let
yourself think about.
What is it that makes me comealive, what is it that the world
(17:53):
needs?
And sometimes that helps youbegin to think about what the
purpose is.
It can be nurturing in arelationship.
It can be, you know, dealingwith parents, siblings, nieces,
nephews.
It can be volunteering.
It can be being engaged in acause that's important to you.
It could be political, it couldbe a societal.
(18:15):
You know, the planet, climatechange, there's no right way.
But what I do find is that themore we feel like we matter, you
know that we can make adifference for ourselves and
others.
Even a smile and kindness, youknow, goes a long way and can
(18:36):
help you feel a sense of purpose.
So you know, and there hasactually been some research
saying that you know, peopleoften will talk about maybe when
they're not working, or notworking in the same way that
they're going to volunteer.
Studies show that some peoplecan start new things later and
many do start now.
You know, oftentimes it can beso rewarding at whatever phase
(19:00):
of life you are now.
But to think about you knowwhat are things I really believe
in a lot, what might be little,tiny ways that I can give back
at whatever age I am now.
Maybe volunteering, you know,might be sending a check.
You know there's no right way,but take that with you, develop
(19:21):
it now.
And I always say to peopleretirement is changing.
It's not so much a destination,it's more a transition and a
journey, and it's helpful tothink about what you're retiring
to and what you're going totake with you, what retires with
you or doesn't retire in thesense of needing to stop, but
maybe there's, you know, causesor things that you want to get
(19:42):
involved with now that you'llhave more time for later.
So you know, I do think, andI've often found that you know
people who aren't working, oraren't working in the same way,
may have the initial honeymoonperiod, but then it can be a few
months later, or years orwhatever.
(20:03):
Oftentimes people saysomething's missing and I think
what I discover is that what'smissing is that connection,
engagement and purpose andmeaning.
So don't be frightened by theterm purpose.
It doesn't have to be a big,big P.
Just what makes you come alive,what's a way that you know,
what's a part of you you want todevelop, maybe a way to get
(20:26):
back.
Kyle (20:27):
Yeah, that's a great way to say it, and it feels like, as
we talk about it, it puts youon solid footing for some of
your planning and problemsolving.
You know, taking advantage ofthose areas where you feel
strong in, and then you know itall goes together in terms of
then building up some of thoseareas that you're not feeling as
on solid footing about.
(20:48):
For example, people might notin midlife, may not be feeling
as on solid footing aboutfinances, and so I'd kind of
like to speak to some of theseareas, to people who might be
feeling that way about finances.
What are some guidelines orexamples that people in mid-age
should consider if they're notfeeling great about where their
(21:09):
finances are at this time intheir life?
Dorian (21:13):
So again, a really good question.
I think it's never too earlyand never too late to think
about finances.
It's often helpful and again itcan be with you know, a friend,
a partner, a sibling or and ora financial planner.
It's helpful to think aboutwhat were the money messages
(21:34):
that you had in the past.
How was money handled growingup?
You know, sometimes in goodways, sometimes not.
So it's helpful to think aboutwhat are the money messages that
you carry with you that mightbe helpful and might be getting
in your way.
So how was money talked about?
How was it spent?
(21:54):
Was there any emphasis onsaving, on investing?
It may help you kind of look atwhat areas you want to develop.
Sometimes people can alsobenefit from having what's
called a money dialogue.
This may seem sort of strangebut you know it's based on
what's called the style approach, which is externalizing a kind
(22:18):
of a part of ourselves.
So you can put money on a chair, for example, have a pillow
that's money and have a dialoguewith your money you know to be
able to talk about.
You know so money kind of.
You know how come you are sodifficult for me to deal with
and money might come back andsay well, look at what you do,
you crumple me up and you stickme in your purse and you don't
(22:38):
respect me at all.
You spend me as though you knowI'm growing on trees and I'm
not, and Just using that as anexample.
I mean, I do my money up andput it in my purse, but but have
a dialogue with money, andfreely I mean I, and this is at
whatever age.
I think it could be helpful Totalk to a financial person.
(22:59):
There also are some really greatfinancial literacy programs for
men and women.
What I have found, and maybeshifting the little cause, more
and more women are working inthe financial world.
But in my generation often themen were more in charge of the
money, many even admitting thatthey didn't really know what
(23:21):
they were necessarily doing, butit was just expected that they
be in charge and the womendeferred.
And it is important tounderstand that.
My, my interest in the moneysituation really developed when
my dad had died and my motherJust really was so dependent on
(23:42):
him financially and didn't evenreally kind of want to learn
about it, and this was likethirty, five, forty, almost
forty years ago now.
That got me really interestedin women and money and couples
and money.
There's some good literaryprograms.
It's empowering for men andwomen to learn what you can
about it.
Don't be afraid to say youdon't understand it.
You know there are so manyonline courses, as I said there,
(24:07):
these literacy programs.
None of us are born knowing itall and you know, I do think
it's helpful at whatever age tojust admit that maybe you had
some complicated money messagesfrom the past.
We also develop what are calledmoney personality types.
You know some people are savers, some are spenders.
You know it can be combinations.
Some you know our monks.
(24:28):
You know I don't want to spendanything, you know kind of very
frugal.
And what can happen in arelationship is, you know, you
may have a very differentpersonality, money personality
type and your partner and thatcan create conflicts.
So Money often people avoidconversations about it.
They avoid puzzling it out forthemselves and talking together.
(24:49):
I really encourage people to doit.
Don't be so afraid of it.
Often I say when I give talks,money, sex and death are sort of
tapering me.
I'm saying you can talk aboutall of them.
Yeah, avoiding it doesn'tchange what's actually there
underneath and you'll neverregret having a handle and a
plan on that.
Kyle (25:08):
Easy for me to say, but it's a great reminder to hear it
from you.
What about health?
I know in midlife, you knowit's stressful, there's a lot of
responsibilities.
Our bodies are aging.
What about those people thataren't feeling Good where
they're at with their health atthis point but they want to have
(25:30):
a longer, healthy life?
What words of wisdom would youshare to them?
Or how do you counsel yourclients In that situation.
Dorian (25:37):
Yeah, the first is noticing that and being aware of
it and mindful of first stepmight be actually talking to
your primary care doctor ornurse practitioners or you know
whoever is available to you.
You know, if you're not at afeeling at a good place in terms
of your body and exercising,first of all, therapy, coaching,
(26:00):
senior PCP, nutrition can behelpful.
You don't want to suddenlystart exercising if you haven't
done it, as though you've beendoing it forever.
Ties into the kind of the smallsteps.
You know it's, you know, maybeA little bit of money in there
to get a personal trainer, youknow, for, you know, an initial
(26:21):
consultation at least, and maybe, you know, at the beginning, on
a more regular basis to itbecomes sort of part of your
repertoire.
You don't want to overdo it tostart with.
You want to build up slowly,but no, you can build up again.
There's studies showing thateven in their 90s, people who
start being able to do some youknow, small amounts of exercise
(26:44):
can really help themselves.
And if, in fact, you know,people talk about wanting to age
well and all, exercise is suchan important part.
And what you eat, and you don'thave to do it alone, get a
buddy.
You know sometimes it's hard,but get a walking buddy or get a
buddy to go to the gym with.
Again, I think during COVID itwas harder, people were staying
(27:07):
inside.
I think walking maybe was oneof the few things you know
people could do.
But don't feel like if youhaven't been doing it it's too
late, it's not, it's never toolate.
I usually don't like to sayalways and never, but it's never
too late to you know.
I mean, I do think no matterwhat age you are, you can
(27:27):
benefit from starting to takecare of yourself.
But it's developing a new habit, and developing new habits take
time.
You might have to unlearn someold messages.
Some studies say it takes 21days to develop a new habit.
Others say it takes 90 days,maybe it's somewhere in between.
It takes time, no, and they'regoing to be.
(27:49):
You know, a few steps forwardand back and forward and back.
So when you know, say you'veexercised for a while and you're
starting to feel good and thenyou're at a plateau, it's easy
to give up and you might feellike it's back, but it's not all
the way back.
View the few steps back is justretuning, refueling and then
move forward again, I thinkasking for help is often hard
for people.
So I want to encourage yourlisteners.
(28:11):
It's not a weakness to ask forhelp, whether it be for a
therapist or coach, your medicalpractitioner, nutritionist, you
know, personal trainer.
We live in an interdependentworld and you know, I think the
idea of having to be so superindependent can work.
As a person, I mean, yes, wewant to have autonomy, we want
(28:39):
to be as able and capable as wecan, but you know, I think it
helps to think about, the worldis sort of interconnected and we
help each other.
Well said, that goes right intothe next area of relationships,
you know.
Kyle (28:57):
I know personally as a gen X or somebody in my late, late,
late late forties, I have sucha mix of relationships.
I have some relationships whereI was selfish and I hurt
somebody and there's regret overthat.
I have Long term relationshipsthat are really important to me.
I have work relationships, Ihave parent relationships with
(29:20):
other generations and it's it'sa mix, and so I guess I throw
that to you in terms of whatwould you say to people that may
not be feeling a strong thisarea?
They have some regret they'rehaving, they're not satisfied
with their relationships, or howcan they in building with,
building on other relationshipsthat are positive, and I'm kind
(29:41):
of throwing that wide open edge.
Dorian (29:45):
Sure, I think relationships are so important I
mean, again, I keep referringto studies, but there really
have been important studiesabout the importance of
relationships.
Many different levels of themis actually a more recent study
about.
You know, people in the lastdecade of life, say in their 90s
, late 90s, hundreds even andmany reflect on more than
(30:09):
anything meaningfulrelationships is what's
important.
What I think is important is,you know, if you get into this
fixed mindset of beatingyourself up, that is not helpful
.
So, again, I think the growthmindset becomes important here.
We all have a number ofdifferent relationships and we
all do make mistakes.
(30:29):
None of us are perfect and itoften is important, you know, to
let yourself reflect on some ofthe relationships, the good,
bad and the ugly and to thinkabout and maybe work with
yourself or with the help of atherapist or a coach or a new
partner or friend, you know, tryto take stock of what you bring
(30:53):
to the relationship, peoplethat bring things, and sometimes
people can bring out kind ofthe worst in each other and
sometimes people can bring outthe best in each other and you
know it's helpful to think aboutwhat you bring to a
relationship.
Are there any patterns to it,you know?
Are there ways, you know thatMaybe it's hard for you to
(31:15):
listen or really appreciatedifferences and you know kind of
get get stuck in your own wayif somebody disagrees with you.
I mean, what are the issues atwork?
I think self awarenessreflecting on it I mentioned
before.
I mean I think I think selfforgiveness as well as sometimes
(31:35):
, forgiveness of others, isreally very helpful and
important.
None of us are perfect.
We all make mistakes.
The important thing is to learnfrom the mistakes, also trying
to be grateful.
We could focus and maximize allthe negative things about
people and life and all of that.
(31:56):
That's a choice, or we can tryto not deny it, be aware of the
negatives but not magnify it somuch that we lose sight of what
are some positive learnings Ican have from it.
I can't change it.
But what can I learn from it?
There's a question that I likethat I pose to clients.
(32:19):
That's from George Kinder, whois still a financial life
planner.
He has three questions.
I love the last one and Imodified it a little and added
one little part that he thoughtwas helpful for it too, and this
may seem morbid to some of yourlisteners, but I think it's
very powerful.
(32:39):
It's not morbid.
Imagine that you went to yourdoctor who said you only have 24
or 48 hours to live.
At whatever age you are, whatwould you regret not having done
?
And then I've added or saidBecause I think the relationship
part is so important too, and Ithink it's a really important
(33:01):
and profound question, Iencourage your listeners to
think about it because it canbring you back to whatever age
you are now to say what are someof the things that are
relationships that I want torepair while I can, so I don't
have regrets at the end and someof them, the people may not be
(33:23):
alive anymore.
I'm a believer that you can dosome repairing, even by writing
a letter to somebody who's nolonger here, because the being
able to write and reflect andlook at the part you bring and
being able to own your truth oryour perception of it, which may
be different from others, canbe really helpful If the person
(33:44):
is still alive and there is awish to try to repair that
relationship.
Don't keep putting it off, andit may be hard.
There's things called gratitudeletters, where you can write a
letter thanking somebody for theimpact and importance that they
had in your life.
There also can be forgivenessletters where maybe you feel
(34:09):
like you've wronged somebody.
There's so many different waysif you think about it that it's
not like it has to be static.
I mean, if you knowrelationships, that area is not
one that you do well in get somehelp.
Certainly there's so manyself-help books and programs and
also helpful both therapistsand coaches out there, but it
(34:34):
does mean admitting that none ofus are perfect.
We all have strengths.
We all have limitations.
Sometimes strengths can even belimitations.
But if you want to live yourbest life, try to make it that
way by owning your own part inwhat you bring to relationships.
(34:54):
Maybe, if you're in a newrelationship and it's
problematic, maybe it'simportant for them to get go to
get some help for it.
Kyle (35:03):
Yeah.
Dorian (35:03):
Yeah.
And not be afraid to do that.
Kyle (35:06):
Go ahead.
I'm sorry, adorene, you need togo to earlier.
That is so wonderfully said.
Thank you for that.
It clicked for me as you weretalking about that.
As you were talking that growthmindset really facilitates
humility in relationships.
I know you can be defensivewhen somebody is open with you
or communicate something thatmay be hard.
(35:27):
If you are recognizing that youcan change, I think that sets
you up for more humility andchange rather than an antidote
to some of that defensivenessthat we might have in
relationships.
That can really harmrelationships, I think.
Dorian (35:44):
And it's so easy to get caught in a relationship and
sort of win, lose my way, yourway.
Try to think of the win.
Win, open a space for therelationship, which is sometimes
it's your way, sometimes it'smy way.
Agree to disagree, butappreciate what you're hearing.
I think it's helpful.
Kyle (36:00):
Yeah, yeah.
One last area I wanted to talkabout within your puzzle
framework is spirituality.
You touched on that earlier,but let's go deeper.
For those that maybe strugglingin this area, what are some
things you would say to thosepeople?
Dorian (36:17):
So again, spirituality doesn't have to be this big S
that feels so scary to people.
It really is looking inward, ina sense, and letting yourself
reflect.
It's often helpful to thinkabout what are three to five
things I'm proud of.
What are some things that werepeak experiences?
(36:38):
Why?
Let yourself be outside innature and see if you can turn
off the devices and stuff andjust walk and notice and be
mindful and observe.
That's the beginning ofallowing yourself to open to the
spiritual ie, what's inside ofyou, and it helps us often just
(37:00):
realize the interconnection thatwe all have.
There are many people talk aboutmindfulness and meditation.
I think those all can be veryimportant things.
They're wonderful meditationtapes.
Generally, in most communitythey're insight meditation
(37:21):
centers.
There's a number of differentapps that people talk about.
I think Headspace is one.
They're a number.
One of the benefits of theinternet is you can Google any
of these topics and be led tosomething.
You can experiment with somemeditation tapes and work on
(37:41):
letting yourself relax, one partthat I recommend to everybody.
I was trained in the relaxationresponse like maybe 40 plus
years ago.
The first part of it is thebreathing, which is just knowing
.
We all breathe, of course, butdeep breathing.
Your listeners can try it rightnow.
(38:03):
Just take a deep breath inthrough your nose, hold it for
four to five seconds and thenexhale through your mouth and
take another deep breath and asyou exhale, just silently to
yourself, just say relax.
And it can be any message youwant to say to yourself, but as
(38:26):
you exhale it can be relax, itcan be be present, it can be
push away distracting thoughtsor feelings, it can be feel your
inner strength.
Don't react, act.
All these messages can behelpful.
And what I recommend to people,which was recommended to me many
years ago, is like once an hour, if you can just and it can be
(38:49):
more often if you tend torealize you tend to be a
reactive person or you getanxious, or you know you're
depressed or whatever, just takea couple of moments for a
couple of breaths that justcenter you.
Your eyes can be open if peopleare around.
They can be closed.
If the once an hour or everyhalf hour or whatever doesn't
(39:09):
work, many people say try it ata time of transition.
So when you finished aconversation or before you're
going to start one, or when youstand up or when you go into a
different room.
The more that you allow yourselfto just still yourself a little
, to quiet yourself a little,you center yourself and you can
(39:31):
discover huh, you know, you canlet yourself, maybe begin to
feel some feelings that are inthere.
I think that's the beginning ofopening yourself to yourself
and spirituality.
So it's a deeper connectionboth with yourself.
But it is humbling, as you said, it can be just realizing we're
one little part in this.
I mean, I think for me, beingout in nature, I mean I find
(39:54):
walking and appreciating andreally feeling gratitude of well
, I'm just looking outside mywindow right now just how
beautiful the world is, and youknow that is part of
spirituality.
So don't be afraid of it.
You know for some it has areligious connotation, for
others it's just part of like,what's it all about?
(40:16):
Why am I here?
What's you know?
And not that anybody's going tohave all the answers, but
sometimes it's just soothing andfeels so wonderful to just know
you're not alone, we're part ofthis big wide universe.
Kyle (40:33):
I love that perspective.
So much the puzzle, theframework, the mosaic, the
midlife mosaic as I'd like tocall it.
It becomes clearer as we thinkabout these things and start to
move forward with some of theseideas and find what works for us
as we kind of get towards theend here, dorian, what are some
practical steps that you wouldsuggest for people seeking to
(40:55):
craft this midlife mosaic?
Dorian (40:59):
Well, I think there are a number of things.
I think the beginning is to letyourself reflect about yourself
and your life.
There's a wonderful littleexercise you can do which is
kind of a life review.
You can take a piece of paperand write it, have a line in the
middle and put the year youwere born and maybe put 100
years at the end and do it insegments of 10 years.
(41:21):
You can do it in a number ofways.
You can write down what werethe life events that were going
on around you, what were thefamily events going on around
you, what were meaningfulexperiences in your life during,
say, the first 10 years, nextdecade, next next.
That can be helpful because itcan again help you sometimes
(41:44):
look and appreciate, sometimesthe good, bad and the ugly, but
knowing you can't change things,but looking at how you've dealt
with them.
So I think, taking time toreflect, there really are a lot
of helpful books out there.
The internet can have good partsand not so good parts, but if
(42:06):
you Google any of the thingswe're talking about meditation,
spirituality, financial literacy, money conflicts, money issues,
all of those things there's awealth of resources.
I know on my website I havesome resources in these
different areas, but don't beafraid to just open yourself to
(42:28):
say I really do want to live mylife as fully as possible.
So I want to open to theconfusions and the uncertainties
and maybe come up and deal withsome of the things that really
feel like they're maybe stillholding you back.
There are therapists out there,there's coaches out there,
(42:48):
there are different group kindof programs.
So I guess what I wouldencourage someone to do is don't
be afraid of taking stock ofyour life now, at whatever age
you are, and really thinkingabout what would be some steps I
can do.
Another little thing that can behelpful is that you put the
(43:09):
different areas it could be the10 must have conversations I
have like finances, health andwellness, spirituality, family
connections.
Make yourself like a littlegraph.
It can be a circle or it can bepillars, and then so put on the
bottom health and wellness,finances, friendships,
relationships, family, whatever,and then on the side, do zero
(43:35):
to 10.
And just sort of see where youare now.
Maybe right now, in terms ofhealth and wellness, you're at a
two, so then, and then do itfor each of those areas and
you'll have like a little graph.
And so then you might want tothink okay, I put it at a two.
Why is health and wellness at atwo?
What would make it a two and ahalf?
(43:57):
Not what will make it a 10,because that's expecting you to
go from A to Z and you can't.
What would make it a two and ahalf?
Maybe just even starting toexercise, maybe calling a
trainer?
What would make it a two and ahalf?
The same in the finances, whatwould say you have yourself at a
four?
What would make it a four and ahalf or a five?
(44:17):
What would be the next step?
That is, looking and trying tofind some financial literacy.
Maybe it is asking friends forsuggestions or family members
for suggestions of a financialperson to talk to.
But in each situation, whatwould be the next little step
that could help you move alongand then periodically reassess.
(44:40):
And again, I do think littlesteps give you mastery.
That gets you another step andanother.
If you try to do too much, youset yourself up to disappoint
yourself and maybe fail.
So be realistic.
Kyle (44:54):
Oh, that's such a great way to tie it all together,
dorian you know straightforward,visual, small steps and and and
just making like I'm bumblingthrough this.
I'll edit this out, but that's.
I love how you tied that alltogether.
That was really reallywonderful, as we kind of come to
a close here.
Are there any other resourcesyou would recommend for our
(45:16):
listeners seeking to learn moreor to create their midlife
mosaic?
What resources do you recommendout there, and what do you
offer as well for people thatare interested in learning more?
Dorian (45:25):
So there are a lot of resources.
There is what's called theModern Elder Academy, or MEA,
has a location in Baja in Mexico, and they'll be developing one
in San Jose.
There are programs that areonline so people can look at
Modern Elder Academy.
There are other programs, youknow.
(45:46):
People can look for coaches,people can look for midlife
career transitions.
In terms of what I can offer, Iencourage people to go to my
website,revolutionizedretirementcom.
It may focus somewhat on theretirement and getting older,
but I think it's applicable atwhatever age.
(46:07):
I offer coaching, therapy,speaking workshops.
There's a retirement coachesassociation.
I know your people aren'tnecessarily interested in
retirement, but it is helpful tothink about the things ahead.
There's so many differentprograms.
I do have some resources on mywebsite.
(46:29):
I must admit that it's nottotally up to date because
there's so many newer thingsthat come.
I also have a free monthlyinterview with expert series.
Some of it has to do withretirement and aging, some have
to do with just living.
The sign up always is the weekbefore, so the third week of the
(46:50):
month, the sign up onrevolutionizedretirementcom it's
always Tuesday at noon, Easterntime, except for December
because it's too close to theholiday.
Once you sign up.
It's free and it's open toprofessionals and the public.
Once you sign up, you get arecording link afterwards.
In addition, I have a podcastseries to celebrate.
(47:11):
I'm now in my 11th year of thisinterview series.
To celebrate the 10th year Istarted putting out on podcasts
the earlier interviews.
They're all free.
I would encourage yourlisteners.
You can scroll through them andsee what interests you.
Kyle (47:28):
Incredible.
They definitely interest me andI know what I'll be doing
tonight.
Dory, this has been so helpful,so thoughtful and so insightful
.
I want to really thank you fortaking the time to be with us
and thank you so much for beingon the show.
Dorian (47:44):
You're welcome.
Thank you for inviting me.
Kyle (47:48):
I'll stop us there.
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