November 21, 2025 • 29 mins
General Horace Sébastiani was more than just a cavalry officer—he was a battlefield commander, imperial diplomat, and political survivor in one of the most turbulent eras in French history. From the thunder of hooves in Spain and Russia to the quiet halls of diplomacy, Sébastiani’s career spanned empires, revolutions, and restorations.
Special guest and author Jonathan North joins the show to explore the remarkable journey of a man who wore many hats:
✅ His cavalry commands in the Peninsular War and Russian Campaign
✅ Service under Murat and participation in key engagements like Talavera and Borodino
✅ His diplomatic missions to Constantinople and role in shaping French-Ottoman policy
✅ How he navigated the fall of Napoleon, the Bourbon Restoration, and the July 1830 Revolution
✅ Why Sébastiani remains one of the most adaptable figures of the era
Whether on horseback or in the halls of power, Sébastiani was always at the center of history.
📌 Like, comment, and subscribe for more deep dives into the overlooked generals of the Napoleonic Wars!
X/Twitter: @andnapoleon
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome back to Generals and Napoleon once again joining us
from London, the great Jonathan N How are you, Sir?
John, I'm very well. Thank you.
A bit warm, but it's nice. Nice to see you.
Yeah, nice to see you as well. For those of you who don't know
Jonathan, a tremendous author, Lot of really interesting books
too. I've read The Death of Joaquim
(00:22):
Yura and Killing Napoleon. You have a number of other books
on this era, correct Jonathan? I do.
I've been writing for some time,John, so I think I've got about
12 or 13, something like that. If you want me to pick a
favorite, I would say it's the death of Joaquin Mura.
I really enjoyed doing the research for that.
Very interesting. And because he was a kind of
(00:44):
flamboyant cavalry general and we're looking at, I don't know
if he's flamboyant, but he's a cavalry general, We're looking
at Sebastiani today, so it's kind of relevant.
I think flamboyant comes in the job description of a cavalry
general, so I. Think you're right?
Yeah, Nevasciani, what a career this guy had.
And hopefully we can get this coward in in 40 to 45 minutes
(01:04):
because it's a lot. By all accounts, he was a very
average general. His troops even nicknamed him,
quote, General Surprise. End Quote.
Because he was often taken by surprise in battle and failed to
do proper reconnaissance, but hewas also a diplomat and was
eventually made in Marshall of France.
And lastly, the murder of his daughter may have touched off
(01:26):
the 1848 revolution that broughtNapoleon the 3rd to power.
What is your opinion of Sebastiani?
So Sebastiani, I think I was first drawn to Sebastiani just
because he's got a great name. It's got a very martial,
military, heroic sounding surname.
And then I found out his first name is Horace, which sounds the
opposite. It doesn't sound very military
(01:47):
at all. So I think it'd be better if
he's called Horatio or somethinglike that, and that would go
better. But yeah, he is a political
operator, like you say. He had a very long career, and
he's one of those people that seems capable, a real survivor,
capable of moving from one regime to another, always
keeping his job, always doing well, always getting a salary.
(02:09):
Not bad as a general, though, like you mentioned, to be called
General Surprise. I mean, that could go either
way. General surprise surprises
people, but not in this case. He was a bit slack when it came
to some of the the detailed workof of leading cavalry leading
troops. So we'd have to question his
(02:29):
competence, even though he spentmuch of his military career in
charge of a corps. Nevertheless, I think he
probably was more suited to managing A regiment or or at
most a brigade, and so I kind ofsee him more as a political
person than as a as a as a military genius.
(02:51):
That's what I think too. I think.
I think he had some value as an administrator.
I mean, I find it odd that a cavalry general didn't like to
do reconnaissance. So that part is.
Strange. But I think Napoleon, well #1
the guy was loyal. So Napoleon kept employing him
for that reason. But I think he had other
talents, just maybe not as a general.
Horace Sebastiani was born in 1771 and like Napoleon, was born
(03:16):
in Corsica. What do we know of his
upbringing? So, yeah, he was a Corsican.
He was a son of an artisan. I think he was son of a quite
successful tailor. But they they had money and so
he had an education. He was quite cultivated,
actually. I think if you read his his
reports, he had quite a grandiose style of writing.
(03:42):
And you can see that in his later writings.
But yeah, it's a, it's modest beginnings, not unusual for a, a
general of this period in the French army.
And interestingly, he had a younger brother who had a really
strange name called Tiburce. TIBURCE Thay Bercher Sebastiani,
(04:03):
who was also a Colonel in the French dragoons.
Later on, no one's ever heard ofhim, but I think he serves in
Russia in 1812 and he had a career of his own.
So quite military family in the end, but with modest beginnings.
Yeah, and he originally selects a career in religious studies,
but gets caught up in the excitement of the French
(04:24):
Revolution and joins the Army in1792.
How did his early career go? Yeah.
So it's again another case of someone destined for the church.
I think Mirai also was destined for the church, and the
revolution interrupts that. And of course, a career in the
church is open to people of morehumble birth.
The army officers mostly were aristocrats.
(04:47):
The naval officers mostly were aristocrats before the
revolution. So the revolution kind of saves
these people, gives them a new opening, new opportunities.
And he's one of the Corsicans who becomes an enthusiast for
the revolution. Not all Corsicans were
enthusiastic for the revolution.There was a very royalist
(05:07):
strand. There were even those who sided
with the British. But Sibberstown is one of those
that serves as a volunteer, soonmakes it to the rank of officer.
And when the British occupied Corsica, I think in 1793 and
make it a Kingdom, he, he evacuates and goes to France and
he serves in the armies in the Alps and in Italy and he does
(05:31):
well, he's already a captain in the dragoons by 1795.
Yeah, in 1796 he's fighting under Napoleon in Italy at the
battles of Dago and Arcola. And is he rapidly promoted up
the ranks? He is.
I mean, he's one of those officers that is almost in the
shadow of Napoleon following himaround.
(05:53):
So he's with Napoleon in Paris when the whiff of grape shot is
used against the Paris mob. He's there with the cavalry.
And it, it kind of makes him that trusted subordinate again,
like Murat. And then in the invasion of
Italy, again, Miraz is involved in that.
Sebastiani is involved in that. He, he does very well at Arcola
under the eyes of Napoleon. And so he's made a squadron
(06:16):
commander. He's a little bit higher than a
captain. And still with the dragoons,
he's was serving, I think with the 9th Dragoons.
And these are hard, experienced fighting veterans by then.
They've been through what, threeyears, four years of war.
And so it's a pretty, it's a pretty demanding job.
It's not something that you can do without skill.
(06:38):
Yeah, in 1799, Colonel Sebastiani is part of Lucian
Bonaparte's entourage, Napoleon's younger brother.
And assist Napoleon's coup for power that year, correct?
Yeah. So again, we see him in that
role of trusted support in a Corsican, a kind of mini mirror,
always, always sort of there, ready and available.
And his dragoons are part of theGarrison of Paris.
(07:02):
So when Napoleon has the coup, the Garrison parish keeps the
city quiet and, and peaceful. And that transition is, is
helped by that. So that's a, a really good thing
to be involved with for your career.
And then he goes off again to Italy to, to be at Marengo again
with Napoleon, also good for your career.
(07:23):
And he stays in, but he stays inItaly when Napoleon goes to
Egypt. So he will go to the Middle East
a bit later, but he's he's givenvarious assignments here in
Italy to sort of make it clear to the Italians that the French
are sort of here to stay. Right.
Well, in 1802, Napoleon sent himon his first diplomatic mission
(07:47):
to the Ottoman Empire. How does he do?
How does he perform in this role, which is different from
being a general? Yeah, well, this is a really
difficult role, and it's somehowquite difficult to see what a
Colonel of dragoons is doing. But Napoleon had obviously left
Egypt and the French had been kicked out of Egypt in 1801.
(08:08):
And so Sebastian is going there really to try and smooth
feathers a little bit, to try and organise the release of any
prisoners that have been leftover, just to really make it
clear that French intentions from now on are are positive and
(08:28):
and beneficial. And Sebastiani finds that the
leading power in Egypt is now the British.
So they're the dominant force inEgypt.
It's nominally a Turkish province, but Britain has kind
of, because of the French invasion of Egypt, Britain has
kind of got the foot in the door.
So it's a very difficult position for someone with no
real diplomatic experience. Although in Italy he'd been
(08:51):
doing this kind of political work a little bit.
It's still a challenging job. Yeah, I would.
Say so. I mean, we I mean, that's just a
few year, a year after, you know, the French leave Egypt,
which they was part of Ottomans empire and they conquered it.
So it must have been an awkward walking into that capital
saying, hey, sorry about that. Let's be friends again.
Yeah, I think there probably wassome awkward silences, but we
(09:13):
don't, they don't get written down, so we don't know well.
Sebastiani returns to France in 1803 and has made a Brigadier
General and command troops at the Battle of Ulm against the
Austrians. He also fights again at the
Battle of Austulates where he iswounded.
So like you said, he he is kind of a mini Muran, you know, like
a like a Bessier or a LaSalle orsome of these others.
(09:33):
You know, he was a brave guy. Yeah, I think so.
I think that's, you know, to come back from this diplomatic
mission and then to go back to your regiment, train them on the
Channel Coast and then to lead them into Germany and Austria.
He's one of the first units to enter Vienna in 1805.
He's wounded at Astolitz. He gets shot through the body.
(09:54):
So he's obviously up there at the front leading his man,
charging around. But being at Astolitz, that's a
very positive outcome. And to be wounded there, that
kind of makes you something of ahero again.
You're you're serving under Napoleon within the site of
Napoleon and and you get noticed.
Yeah, he definitely gets noticed.
(10:16):
He gets promoted again to general division and is again
sent to Constantinople as ambassador and help the Ottomans
help convince the Ottomans to declare war on Russia.
Does he also play a part in organizing the defenses that a
British Navy attack in eighteen O 7?
Yeah, it's one of the more obscure episodes of the
Napoleonic Wars. But like I say, Sebastiani has
(10:39):
done well. It's very quickly after
Ausdolitz that he gets sent on this new mission to to see the
Ottomans in Constantinople. And really he's being sent there
to try and play the great powersoff against themselves a little
bit. So the British and the Russians
(11:00):
are influential in the eastern Mediterranean, and Sebastiani's
arrival is to try and provoke some tension and rivalry between
those two. And of course, Russia actually
makes peace with France in 1807,a little bit later.
But in 1806, there's still an opportunity to make mischief in
(11:21):
Constantinople by befriending the Turks and and whispering
things into their ear about how the British are are cheating you
and how the Russians really wantto take over bits of your land.
So it upsets the British to the extent that they fall out with
the Turkish Sultan and they try some gunboat diplomacy.
(11:42):
So they bring a fleet up, the Dardanelle and the British, not
a great example of restraint, British bombard the coast, but
the the Turks with Sebastiani's help, organise resistance and
fight back and beat off the British and they make a hasty
retreat. So it's a very successful
(12:04):
almost, it's not quite diplomatic, but it is a
diplomatic military success for Sebastiani and it shows perhaps
some of his versatility that we don't always see later on in his
life. I feel like his star is kind of
rising at this point. Yes, I think so, although it's
marred a little bit in 1807 because his wife, she dies in
childbirth in April 1807. So a daughter is born to them,
(12:29):
but his wife dies. And there's an interesting side
to his wife. His wife comes from old French
aristocracy. And his wife's father is
somebody called Franquodot de Coigne and he was a general in
Portuguese service. So he emigrated during the
revolution and went and got service in the Portuguese army.
(12:53):
Sebastiani's father-in-law, verymuch an old school ball born
royalist. There's that element in the
family that what we'll see in 18141815 starts to to dominate a
little, a little bit. Yeah, we'll come.
Come back to his personal life here in a little bit, yeah.
He's made. Count of the Empire and is sent
(13:16):
to Spain where he fights Atalavera, Mon Acid and Ocana
and is successful in taking several Spanish cities.
But like many of the marshals inSpain, his performance tends to
sag after a while. Why do you think he suffered
setbacks there? Yes.
I mean, I generally see Spain, as I'm sure you do, as a kind of
(13:36):
graveyard for the careers of French generals and French
marshals. So it's a really difficult
theatre, even though Sebastiani does, he does quite well.
I mean, he in early 1809, he takes over 4 4th core, the 4th
core in the South of Spain and he he does really OK.
(13:57):
Like you say, he's a Talavera, which is a difficult battle.
The allies have got a very strong position, Almanacid and
Lacagna, they have great successes against Spanish
armies, but they're they're really, the French cavalry
really do destroy the oppositionin those battles.
(14:18):
So it's it's not that he's beingbrilliant.
In fact he's he's quite wastefulwith his cowboy.
He doesn't do reconnaissance particularly well.
He doesn't really look after them particularly well.
And he's got no real strategic brilliance.
But you know, apart from Suchet in Eastern Spain, no one is
doing really, really well, right?
Well, Napoleon also grows wary of Sebastiani, who fails to
(14:41):
report all of the casualties andover exaggerates the scale of
his victories. Was he a plunder as well, like
Marshall Soltmessena? I've seen conflicting reports,
yeah. Again, like I said about the
graveyard for Koreas, it's also a graveyard for reputations.
So I think it's interesting about Sebastiani and his reports
(15:02):
from Spain. Like most of the generals, he's
either hiding setbacks. I think there was some huge
scandal about the number of gunslost at Talavera, which wasn't
really Sebastiani, it was some other generals and they didn't
report the truth to Napoleon. Napoleon found out later, it was
livid. So there's a lot of lying going
(15:23):
on. But Sebastiani, he's doing OK
because he's in the South, he's in Andalusia, he's in Granada.
These are quite rich provinces. The problem was, I think, in
terms of Napoleon's point of view, he was getting a bit
ambitious. Joseph Bonaparte, King of Spain,
(15:45):
had had make it made him Duke ofMercier as a reward.
Napoleon really didn't like thatkind of thing.
It was Napoleon that gives rewards and punishments.
It's not Joseph Bonaparte, so hedoes get called back from Spain
in 1811. In terms of the plundering, I
don't think he needed to. He's from quite a wealthy
(16:07):
family, as I, as I mentioned, he's old school aristocracy, but
I don't really get the sense that he was sacking and
pillaging. He would sack a town to make an
example. And I think the French were
doing that a lot in Spain because they didn't really know
how to deal, deal with the insurgency, with the guerrillas.
So they loved to make an exampleof a place that didn't
(16:30):
surrender. But I don't think he was
amassing a fortune personally. Yeah, well, despite his
liabilities, Estiani serves under Napoleon again.
During the 1812 invasion of Russia, he fought A Bordino as
one of the first French troops to enter Moscow.
But during the retreat, his troops were beaten and his
(16:51):
reputation suffers more damage. In my mind, he kind of reminds
me of, as you know, not overly talented but extremely loyal to
Napoleon. Does this kind of explain his
continued appointments as commander?
I think it's a really good point.
So, yeah, in terms of Russia 1812, for the invasion, he's
given a a division of light cavalry.
(17:13):
So that's in the saddle the whole time in the in the
vanguard pushing into this sort of landscape of planes and
fields. But even in this endless
landscape of planes and fields, he manages to get ambushed by
Cossacks at Inkova, where General Platov gives him a
(17:35):
bloody nose. He gets his chance just after
Borodino, because General Monbrant is killed at Borodino
and quite a lot of cavalry generals do get quite a lot of
generals get killed at Borodino.It's surprising how many get
killed or wounded there. A horrendous battle.
Sebastian is given control, given command of a cavalry corps
(17:57):
at that point, which she takes to Moscow.
But in October 1812, along with our friend Mira, these cavalry
detachments are badly surprised by Katusov and there's an ambush
and they, they, they run off andlosses are horrendous.
One of the reasons the French decide to call it a day and and
(18:21):
retreat because of this terribleepisode, which Sebastiani has to
bear some responsibility for in terms of Juno, I think you're
you're right because Juno aid the comp to Napoleon young
ambitious and gets to a certain point, but then doesn't excel
after that. And I think that's that's
(18:42):
probably where we are with Sebastiani, although I can see
there's an argument to say he's a bit like other cavalry
generals of division like Nansuchi, Monbruan, Kolanko,
that kind of level, but not Marshall material.
And I think even Napoleon could see that that's true.
Yeah, Napoleon. Wasn't in the habit of promoting
fools or people who couldn't do their job well.
(19:05):
Sebastiani serves again in 18131814, suffers more battle
wounds, but Napoleon advocates in April 1814 does Sebastiani
submit to the returning borban Royals since an.
Interesting question. So in the wake of 1812, I'm sure
that his his confidence and his,well, physically, a lot of these
(19:27):
people are broken. But in terms of, you know,
confidence, in terms of where they see the future, the
invasion of Russia is a watershed moment in early 1813.
Zastiani's in Germany with what's left of his cavalry,
which is not really many. And everyone's really starting
to think, what are we? What are we fighting for?
(19:48):
What are we doing? Are they giving it one more
campaign? Sebastiani makes it through the
German campaign in June 13 to Leipzig, where he's wounded by a
Land's thrust which can't reallyhelp his sense of of ambition or
loyalty. So it's a really, really hard
(20:09):
time and of course he hasn't made it to to Marshall.
So there's a lingering resentment, I think probably
there. And he has a very hectic 1814
campaign in France again, leading cavalry racing round
from one battlefield to another.And but it when Napoleon does
abdicate, Sebastian keeps a verylow profile.
(20:32):
So he doesn't really do anythingand he's not asked to do
anything. But he sort of stays at home,
which is I think shows, again, some political sense that we'll
see later in his career that he's able to navigate this
change of regime quite, quite cleverly, yeah.
Well, you mentioned, I think at the beginning he's kind of a
survivor. He knows how to play the the ebb
(20:53):
and tides of of everything. OK.
In 1815, Sebastiani flocks to Napoleon during his return from
Elba. Where does he serve Napoleon?
It's not at Waterloo, no. And it's really at this point
that Sebastiani makes that transition into politics.
So when Napoleon returns for Melba, he becomes an elected
representative and he goes into,I think it's the house, kind of
(21:16):
the House of Lords. But after Waterloo, he he puts
the uniform back on to help defend Paris in late June 1815.
And then he's sent to negotiate a ceasefire with the allies, the
advancing allies. And he's part of the delegation,
(21:36):
but he is also communicating with the allies as well.
So he's opened a line of communication to Metonych, the
famous Austrian diplomat. And so he's already talking
about change of regime there. So again, we get this sense that
he's he, he knows that his politics, he knows which way the
(21:56):
wind's blowing. And he's suggesting that Louis
the 18th should be returned to the French throne in a second
restoration. So there's some real politicking
going on there. And Sebastiani's, whether it's
his diplomatic skill or, you know, his family, the family
influence on him or he's just tired of war, we don't really
(22:18):
know with these generals and marshals at this point.
And but it's the start of a great political career.
Yeah. Let's talk about that.
He those a year are in exile in England but returns to France
and begins his political career.How is he as a politician?
Yes. So he's back in France in 1818.
This is obviously a very royalist period, but the worst
(22:40):
of the sort of royalist reactionagainst Napoleon's allies is
over by 1818 and becomes electeddeputy for Corsica.
So he's representing his home island.
It's a lot of Wheeling and dealing and he manages to end up
when the regime changes again in1830, there's a revolution, the
regime changes again, he managesto end up as minister for the
(23:03):
Navy. That's really the measure of
him. He's got no experience of ships
or tailing. He's probably been on a ship
twice. But there he is, seemingly
loyal, seemingly competent, always ready to lend a hand.
And then from that point on, he's either a minister or an
ambassador. So he's he's doing very well.
(23:24):
Well. This next part's interesting.
His later years. He's made a Marshall in 1840,
finally, so that's probably gratification.
But then his daughter is murdered and somehow is said to
have touched off the 1848 revolution that brought Napoleon
the 3rd to power. Without going too deep into it,
what happened here? So yeah, he's.
(23:45):
Made a a Marshall of France in 1840s, so that's better late
than never, but it's hardly a reward for his military career.
It's more because he was an ambassador, which means that the
term you know, the title Marshall of France is not the
same that it was 30 years before.
It's really a political for yourservice to.
(24:05):
France over the years type of thing, yeah.
Service to France exactly. But yeah, a few years later, he
gets caught up in a huge scandalinvolving his daughter, and his
daughter was born in Constantinople.
Sebastian's wife died in childbirth, and the daughter
eventually marries Duke de Pazslan, who's a very important
(24:26):
character. He's in the French House of
Lords. He's the peer of the realm,
friend of the king, really good aristocrat.
And together, the couple have nine children.
And there's tension in the family and a lot of squabbling.
Divorce is very difficult at that time.
You can't easily get a divorce. And they end up fighting.
(24:49):
And one night, the Duke stabs his wife as Mastiani's daughter
many times, doesn't kill her, but finishes him off by hitting
her with a Candlestick, so murders her.
He then tries to commit suicide.He's arrested, it's a big
scandal, but he manages to obtain some poison while he's
(25:10):
arrested and kills himself whilein custody.
And that means he avoids trial. And there's a rumour even today
that the government managed to get him some poison so that they
were spared the scandal of a trial.
But in any case, there's a huge scandal.
And this totally discredits the king and the court.
(25:32):
It makes the aristocrats look debauched because the Duke was
having an affair with the governess and he killed his
wife. Seems like there's no honour and
no principles, yeah? I've read, I've read that that
the general populace thought they were.
They thought the aristocrats were above the law and didn't
have to answer any penalties. Exactly.
(25:52):
And it really plays into that. So the king there is a
revolution in 1848. And although it's a contributing
fact, it's not their it's not their sort of match that lights
the powder cake. It's a contributing factor.
And it really people demanding better moles from their
(26:13):
government is you get a real sense of that.
And with the the Duke being wellconnected to King Louis
Philippe, it makes it even worse.
Now there is a rumour that the Duke didn't kill himself, but
was given a new identity and ended up in Nicaragua.
And I've seen online the whole thread of arguments as to why
(26:38):
that is or isn't the case. But leave that to your listeners
to, to maybe go off and have a look at that.
But it's an interesting little episode.
And yeah, it was an important episode in in French history.
Well. Sebastiani dies three years
later at the age of 79. What do you think his legacy is?
Well, the fact that he's 79, he's an old, he's an old guy and
(27:00):
ends up at the top of his game, I think that's probably 1
legacy. He has that legacy as a
statesman, as a minister, as a diplomat.
French hero in a way, managed tonegotiate his way through all
the ups and downs of 19th century French history.
So hats off to him for that. A successful Corsican in Paris.
(27:25):
However, an awful personal life with his wife dying and his
daughter dying, yeah. Really difficult personal life
and I think he didn't, he didn'tmarry again until much later on
in his life. There was that the whole period
of the Napoleon, it was after 1807 when his wife died.
He was he was a bachelor, but aswe're talking about Napoleon's
generals, I think that the legacy as a soldier is, is more
(27:49):
questionable. And I I find him oddly lacking.
And I think, like I mentioned, Ithink he'd make a good Colonel,
but he never was able quite to raise his game when in charge of
something more complicated or bigger like a call or to
coordinate that with other generals and do that successful
(28:11):
successfully. And I think that he lacked that
sort of effortless ability to command.
But instead of that, you know, he was always available, always
willing, Just not very inspirational.
Yeah. And.
And you credited him, you know, he was able to pivot his career.
Like, all right, well, I'm, I'm not going to be a general
anymore. I'll be a politician and, and a
diplomat. And he, I think he did well with
it. Yeah, I think he was better off
(28:34):
as with that as a career than asa soldier, because I think as a
soldier, well, he, he did work his men hard.
He's he's like Murat in that sense.
If you want to destroy your cavalry without achieving great
results, then give them to Sebastiani.
But you know, that's probably not what you want on the on the
core level. But there are plenty of colonels
(28:54):
who did that and and got away with it.
And I think Sebastiani was probably should have been one of
those. Yeah.
Yeah, well, I thank you for thatJonathan.
Wonderful episode on Sebastiani again.
Recommend you check out all of Jonathan's books.
The Death of Joaquim Yarra is a really good one.
Killing Napoleon also very good.And what discusses the
assassination attempts on Napoleon?
(29:16):
But yeah, great having you on the show my friend.
I really learned a lot. Thank you.
It was a pleasure talking to you, John, and have a great
afternoon.
Welcome back to Generals and Napoleon once again joining us
from London, the great Jonathan N How are you, Sir?
John, I'm very well. Thank you.
A bit warm, but it's nice. Nice to see you.
Yeah, nice to see you as well. For those of you who don't know
Jonathan, a tremendous author, Lot of really interesting books
too. I've read The Death of Joaquim
(00:22):
Yura and Killing Napoleon. You have a number of other books
on this era, correct Jonathan? I do.
I've been writing for some time,John, so I think I've got about
12 or 13, something like that. If you want me to pick a
favorite, I would say it's the death of Joaquin Mura.
I really enjoyed doing the research for that.
Very interesting. And because he was a kind of
(00:44):
flamboyant cavalry general and we're looking at, I don't know
if he's flamboyant, but he's a cavalry general, We're looking
at Sebastiani today, so it's kind of relevant.
I think flamboyant comes in the job description of a cavalry
general, so I. Think you're right?
Yeah, Nevasciani, what a career this guy had.
And hopefully we can get this coward in in 40 to 45 minutes
(01:04):
because it's a lot. By all accounts, he was a very
average general. His troops even nicknamed him,
quote, General Surprise. End Quote.
Because he was often taken by surprise in battle and failed to
do proper reconnaissance, but hewas also a diplomat and was
eventually made in Marshall of France.
And lastly, the murder of his daughter may have touched off
(01:26):
the 1848 revolution that broughtNapoleon the 3rd to power.
What is your opinion of Sebastiani?
So Sebastiani, I think I was first drawn to Sebastiani just
because he's got a great name. It's got a very martial,
military, heroic sounding surname.
And then I found out his first name is Horace, which sounds the
opposite. It doesn't sound very military
(01:47):
at all. So I think it'd be better if
he's called Horatio or somethinglike that, and that would go
better. But yeah, he is a political
operator, like you say. He had a very long career, and
he's one of those people that seems capable, a real survivor,
capable of moving from one regime to another, always
keeping his job, always doing well, always getting a salary.
(02:09):
Not bad as a general, though, like you mentioned, to be called
General Surprise. I mean, that could go either
way. General surprise surprises
people, but not in this case. He was a bit slack when it came
to some of the the detailed workof of leading cavalry leading
troops. So we'd have to question his
(02:29):
competence, even though he spentmuch of his military career in
charge of a corps. Nevertheless, I think he
probably was more suited to managing A regiment or or at
most a brigade, and so I kind ofsee him more as a political
person than as a as a as a military genius.
(02:51):
That's what I think too. I think.
I think he had some value as an administrator.
I mean, I find it odd that a cavalry general didn't like to
do reconnaissance. So that part is.
Strange. But I think Napoleon, well #1
the guy was loyal. So Napoleon kept employing him
for that reason. But I think he had other
talents, just maybe not as a general.
Horace Sebastiani was born in 1771 and like Napoleon, was born
(03:16):
in Corsica. What do we know of his
upbringing? So, yeah, he was a Corsican.
He was a son of an artisan. I think he was son of a quite
successful tailor. But they they had money and so
he had an education. He was quite cultivated,
actually. I think if you read his his
reports, he had quite a grandiose style of writing.
(03:42):
And you can see that in his later writings.
But yeah, it's a, it's modest beginnings, not unusual for a, a
general of this period in the French army.
And interestingly, he had a younger brother who had a really
strange name called Tiburce. TIBURCE Thay Bercher Sebastiani,
(04:03):
who was also a Colonel in the French dragoons.
Later on, no one's ever heard ofhim, but I think he serves in
Russia in 1812 and he had a career of his own.
So quite military family in the end, but with modest beginnings.
Yeah, and he originally selects a career in religious studies,
but gets caught up in the excitement of the French
(04:24):
Revolution and joins the Army in1792.
How did his early career go? Yeah.
So it's again another case of someone destined for the church.
I think Mirai also was destined for the church, and the
revolution interrupts that. And of course, a career in the
church is open to people of morehumble birth.
The army officers mostly were aristocrats.
(04:47):
The naval officers mostly were aristocrats before the
revolution. So the revolution kind of saves
these people, gives them a new opening, new opportunities.
And he's one of the Corsicans who becomes an enthusiast for
the revolution. Not all Corsicans were
enthusiastic for the revolution.There was a very royalist
(05:07):
strand. There were even those who sided
with the British. But Sibberstown is one of those
that serves as a volunteer, soonmakes it to the rank of officer.
And when the British occupied Corsica, I think in 1793 and
make it a Kingdom, he, he evacuates and goes to France and
he serves in the armies in the Alps and in Italy and he does
(05:31):
well, he's already a captain in the dragoons by 1795.
Yeah, in 1796 he's fighting under Napoleon in Italy at the
battles of Dago and Arcola. And is he rapidly promoted up
the ranks? He is.
I mean, he's one of those officers that is almost in the
shadow of Napoleon following himaround.
(05:53):
So he's with Napoleon in Paris when the whiff of grape shot is
used against the Paris mob. He's there with the cavalry.
And it, it kind of makes him that trusted subordinate again,
like Murat. And then in the invasion of
Italy, again, Miraz is involved in that.
Sebastiani is involved in that. He, he does very well at Arcola
under the eyes of Napoleon. And so he's made a squadron
(06:16):
commander. He's a little bit higher than a
captain. And still with the dragoons,
he's was serving, I think with the 9th Dragoons.
And these are hard, experienced fighting veterans by then.
They've been through what, threeyears, four years of war.
And so it's a pretty, it's a pretty demanding job.
It's not something that you can do without skill.
(06:38):
Yeah, in 1799, Colonel Sebastiani is part of Lucian
Bonaparte's entourage, Napoleon's younger brother.
And assist Napoleon's coup for power that year, correct?
Yeah. So again, we see him in that
role of trusted support in a Corsican, a kind of mini mirror,
always, always sort of there, ready and available.
And his dragoons are part of theGarrison of Paris.
(07:02):
So when Napoleon has the coup, the Garrison parish keeps the
city quiet and, and peaceful. And that transition is, is
helped by that. So that's a, a really good thing
to be involved with for your career.
And then he goes off again to Italy to, to be at Marengo again
with Napoleon, also good for your career.
(07:23):
And he stays in, but he stays inItaly when Napoleon goes to
Egypt. So he will go to the Middle East
a bit later, but he's he's givenvarious assignments here in
Italy to sort of make it clear to the Italians that the French
are sort of here to stay. Right.
Well, in 1802, Napoleon sent himon his first diplomatic mission
(07:47):
to the Ottoman Empire. How does he do?
How does he perform in this role, which is different from
being a general? Yeah, well, this is a really
difficult role, and it's somehowquite difficult to see what a
Colonel of dragoons is doing. But Napoleon had obviously left
Egypt and the French had been kicked out of Egypt in 1801.
(08:08):
And so Sebastian is going there really to try and smooth
feathers a little bit, to try and organise the release of any
prisoners that have been leftover, just to really make it
clear that French intentions from now on are are positive and
(08:28):
and beneficial. And Sebastiani finds that the
leading power in Egypt is now the British.
So they're the dominant force inEgypt.
It's nominally a Turkish province, but Britain has kind
of, because of the French invasion of Egypt, Britain has
kind of got the foot in the door.
So it's a very difficult position for someone with no
real diplomatic experience. Although in Italy he'd been
(08:51):
doing this kind of political work a little bit.
It's still a challenging job. Yeah, I would.
Say so. I mean, we I mean, that's just a
few year, a year after, you know, the French leave Egypt,
which they was part of Ottomans empire and they conquered it.
So it must have been an awkward walking into that capital
saying, hey, sorry about that. Let's be friends again.
Yeah, I think there probably wassome awkward silences, but we
(09:13):
don't, they don't get written down, so we don't know well.
Sebastiani returns to France in 1803 and has made a Brigadier
General and command troops at the Battle of Ulm against the
Austrians. He also fights again at the
Battle of Austulates where he iswounded.
So like you said, he he is kind of a mini Muran, you know, like
a like a Bessier or a LaSalle orsome of these others.
(09:33):
You know, he was a brave guy. Yeah, I think so.
I think that's, you know, to come back from this diplomatic
mission and then to go back to your regiment, train them on the
Channel Coast and then to lead them into Germany and Austria.
He's one of the first units to enter Vienna in 1805.
He's wounded at Astolitz. He gets shot through the body.
(09:54):
So he's obviously up there at the front leading his man,
charging around. But being at Astolitz, that's a
very positive outcome. And to be wounded there, that
kind of makes you something of ahero again.
You're you're serving under Napoleon within the site of
Napoleon and and you get noticed.
Yeah, he definitely gets noticed.
(10:16):
He gets promoted again to general division and is again
sent to Constantinople as ambassador and help the Ottomans
help convince the Ottomans to declare war on Russia.
Does he also play a part in organizing the defenses that a
British Navy attack in eighteen O 7?
Yeah, it's one of the more obscure episodes of the
Napoleonic Wars. But like I say, Sebastiani has
(10:39):
done well. It's very quickly after
Ausdolitz that he gets sent on this new mission to to see the
Ottomans in Constantinople. And really he's being sent there
to try and play the great powersoff against themselves a little
bit. So the British and the Russians
(11:00):
are influential in the eastern Mediterranean, and Sebastiani's
arrival is to try and provoke some tension and rivalry between
those two. And of course, Russia actually
makes peace with France in 1807,a little bit later.
But in 1806, there's still an opportunity to make mischief in
(11:21):
Constantinople by befriending the Turks and and whispering
things into their ear about how the British are are cheating you
and how the Russians really wantto take over bits of your land.
So it upsets the British to the extent that they fall out with
the Turkish Sultan and they try some gunboat diplomacy.
(11:42):
So they bring a fleet up, the Dardanelle and the British, not
a great example of restraint, British bombard the coast, but
the the Turks with Sebastiani's help, organise resistance and
fight back and beat off the British and they make a hasty
retreat. So it's a very successful
(12:04):
almost, it's not quite diplomatic, but it is a
diplomatic military success for Sebastiani and it shows perhaps
some of his versatility that we don't always see later on in his
life. I feel like his star is kind of
rising at this point. Yes, I think so, although it's
marred a little bit in 1807 because his wife, she dies in
childbirth in April 1807. So a daughter is born to them,
(12:29):
but his wife dies. And there's an interesting side
to his wife. His wife comes from old French
aristocracy. And his wife's father is
somebody called Franquodot de Coigne and he was a general in
Portuguese service. So he emigrated during the
revolution and went and got service in the Portuguese army.
(12:53):
Sebastiani's father-in-law, verymuch an old school ball born
royalist. There's that element in the
family that what we'll see in 18141815 starts to to dominate a
little, a little bit. Yeah, we'll come.
Come back to his personal life here in a little bit, yeah.
He's made. Count of the Empire and is sent
(13:16):
to Spain where he fights Atalavera, Mon Acid and Ocana
and is successful in taking several Spanish cities.
But like many of the marshals inSpain, his performance tends to
sag after a while. Why do you think he suffered
setbacks there? Yes.
I mean, I generally see Spain, as I'm sure you do, as a kind of
(13:36):
graveyard for the careers of French generals and French
marshals. So it's a really difficult
theatre, even though Sebastiani does, he does quite well.
I mean, he in early 1809, he takes over 4 4th core, the 4th
core in the South of Spain and he he does really OK.
(13:57):
Like you say, he's a Talavera, which is a difficult battle.
The allies have got a very strong position, Almanacid and
Lacagna, they have great successes against Spanish
armies, but they're they're really, the French cavalry
really do destroy the oppositionin those battles.
(14:18):
So it's it's not that he's beingbrilliant.
In fact he's he's quite wastefulwith his cowboy.
He doesn't do reconnaissance particularly well.
He doesn't really look after them particularly well.
And he's got no real strategic brilliance.
But you know, apart from Suchet in Eastern Spain, no one is
doing really, really well, right?
Well, Napoleon also grows wary of Sebastiani, who fails to
(14:41):
report all of the casualties andover exaggerates the scale of
his victories. Was he a plunder as well, like
Marshall Soltmessena? I've seen conflicting reports,
yeah. Again, like I said about the
graveyard for Koreas, it's also a graveyard for reputations.
So I think it's interesting about Sebastiani and his reports
(15:02):
from Spain. Like most of the generals, he's
either hiding setbacks. I think there was some huge
scandal about the number of gunslost at Talavera, which wasn't
really Sebastiani, it was some other generals and they didn't
report the truth to Napoleon. Napoleon found out later, it was
livid. So there's a lot of lying going
(15:23):
on. But Sebastiani, he's doing OK
because he's in the South, he's in Andalusia, he's in Granada.
These are quite rich provinces. The problem was, I think, in
terms of Napoleon's point of view, he was getting a bit
ambitious. Joseph Bonaparte, King of Spain,
(15:45):
had had make it made him Duke ofMercier as a reward.
Napoleon really didn't like thatkind of thing.
It was Napoleon that gives rewards and punishments.
It's not Joseph Bonaparte, so hedoes get called back from Spain
in 1811. In terms of the plundering, I
don't think he needed to. He's from quite a wealthy
(16:07):
family, as I, as I mentioned, he's old school aristocracy, but
I don't really get the sense that he was sacking and
pillaging. He would sack a town to make an
example. And I think the French were
doing that a lot in Spain because they didn't really know
how to deal, deal with the insurgency, with the guerrillas.
So they loved to make an exampleof a place that didn't
(16:30):
surrender. But I don't think he was
amassing a fortune personally. Yeah, well, despite his
liabilities, Estiani serves under Napoleon again.
During the 1812 invasion of Russia, he fought A Bordino as
one of the first French troops to enter Moscow.
But during the retreat, his troops were beaten and his
(16:51):
reputation suffers more damage. In my mind, he kind of reminds
me of, as you know, not overly talented but extremely loyal to
Napoleon. Does this kind of explain his
continued appointments as commander?
I think it's a really good point.
So, yeah, in terms of Russia 1812, for the invasion, he's
given a a division of light cavalry.
(17:13):
So that's in the saddle the whole time in the in the
vanguard pushing into this sort of landscape of planes and
fields. But even in this endless
landscape of planes and fields, he manages to get ambushed by
Cossacks at Inkova, where General Platov gives him a
(17:35):
bloody nose. He gets his chance just after
Borodino, because General Monbrant is killed at Borodino
and quite a lot of cavalry generals do get quite a lot of
generals get killed at Borodino.It's surprising how many get
killed or wounded there. A horrendous battle.
Sebastian is given control, given command of a cavalry corps
(17:57):
at that point, which she takes to Moscow.
But in October 1812, along with our friend Mira, these cavalry
detachments are badly surprised by Katusov and there's an ambush
and they, they, they run off andlosses are horrendous.
One of the reasons the French decide to call it a day and and
(18:21):
retreat because of this terribleepisode, which Sebastiani has to
bear some responsibility for in terms of Juno, I think you're
you're right because Juno aid the comp to Napoleon young
ambitious and gets to a certain point, but then doesn't excel
after that. And I think that's that's
(18:42):
probably where we are with Sebastiani, although I can see
there's an argument to say he's a bit like other cavalry
generals of division like Nansuchi, Monbruan, Kolanko,
that kind of level, but not Marshall material.
And I think even Napoleon could see that that's true.
Yeah, Napoleon. Wasn't in the habit of promoting
fools or people who couldn't do their job well.
(19:05):
Sebastiani serves again in 18131814, suffers more battle
wounds, but Napoleon advocates in April 1814 does Sebastiani
submit to the returning borban Royals since an.
Interesting question. So in the wake of 1812, I'm sure
that his his confidence and his,well, physically, a lot of these
(19:27):
people are broken. But in terms of, you know,
confidence, in terms of where they see the future, the
invasion of Russia is a watershed moment in early 1813.
Zastiani's in Germany with what's left of his cavalry,
which is not really many. And everyone's really starting
to think, what are we? What are we fighting for?
(19:48):
What are we doing? Are they giving it one more
campaign? Sebastiani makes it through the
German campaign in June 13 to Leipzig, where he's wounded by a
Land's thrust which can't reallyhelp his sense of of ambition or
loyalty. So it's a really, really hard
(20:09):
time and of course he hasn't made it to to Marshall.
So there's a lingering resentment, I think probably
there. And he has a very hectic 1814
campaign in France again, leading cavalry racing round
from one battlefield to another.And but it when Napoleon does
abdicate, Sebastian keeps a verylow profile.
(20:32):
So he doesn't really do anythingand he's not asked to do
anything. But he sort of stays at home,
which is I think shows, again, some political sense that we'll
see later in his career that he's able to navigate this
change of regime quite, quite cleverly, yeah.
Well, you mentioned, I think at the beginning he's kind of a
survivor. He knows how to play the the ebb
(20:53):
and tides of of everything. OK.
In 1815, Sebastiani flocks to Napoleon during his return from
Elba. Where does he serve Napoleon?
It's not at Waterloo, no. And it's really at this point
that Sebastiani makes that transition into politics.
So when Napoleon returns for Melba, he becomes an elected
representative and he goes into,I think it's the house, kind of
(21:16):
the House of Lords. But after Waterloo, he he puts
the uniform back on to help defend Paris in late June 1815.
And then he's sent to negotiate a ceasefire with the allies, the
advancing allies. And he's part of the delegation,
(21:36):
but he is also communicating with the allies as well.
So he's opened a line of communication to Metonych, the
famous Austrian diplomat. And so he's already talking
about change of regime there. So again, we get this sense that
he's he, he knows that his politics, he knows which way the
(21:56):
wind's blowing. And he's suggesting that Louis
the 18th should be returned to the French throne in a second
restoration. So there's some real politicking
going on there. And Sebastiani's, whether it's
his diplomatic skill or, you know, his family, the family
influence on him or he's just tired of war, we don't really
(22:18):
know with these generals and marshals at this point.
And but it's the start of a great political career.
Yeah. Let's talk about that.
He those a year are in exile in England but returns to France
and begins his political career.How is he as a politician?
Yes. So he's back in France in 1818.
This is obviously a very royalist period, but the worst
(22:40):
of the sort of royalist reactionagainst Napoleon's allies is
over by 1818 and becomes electeddeputy for Corsica.
So he's representing his home island.
It's a lot of Wheeling and dealing and he manages to end up
when the regime changes again in1830, there's a revolution, the
regime changes again, he managesto end up as minister for the
(23:03):
Navy. That's really the measure of
him. He's got no experience of ships
or tailing. He's probably been on a ship
twice. But there he is, seemingly
loyal, seemingly competent, always ready to lend a hand.
And then from that point on, he's either a minister or an
ambassador. So he's he's doing very well.
(23:24):
Well. This next part's interesting.
His later years. He's made a Marshall in 1840,
finally, so that's probably gratification.
But then his daughter is murdered and somehow is said to
have touched off the 1848 revolution that brought Napoleon
the 3rd to power. Without going too deep into it,
what happened here? So yeah, he's.
(23:45):
Made a a Marshall of France in 1840s, so that's better late
than never, but it's hardly a reward for his military career.
It's more because he was an ambassador, which means that the
term you know, the title Marshall of France is not the
same that it was 30 years before.
It's really a political for yourservice to.
(24:05):
France over the years type of thing, yeah.
Service to France exactly. But yeah, a few years later, he
gets caught up in a huge scandalinvolving his daughter, and his
daughter was born in Constantinople.
Sebastian's wife died in childbirth, and the daughter
eventually marries Duke de Pazslan, who's a very important
(24:26):
character. He's in the French House of
Lords. He's the peer of the realm,
friend of the king, really good aristocrat.
And together, the couple have nine children.
And there's tension in the family and a lot of squabbling.
Divorce is very difficult at that time.
You can't easily get a divorce. And they end up fighting.
(24:49):
And one night, the Duke stabs his wife as Mastiani's daughter
many times, doesn't kill her, but finishes him off by hitting
her with a Candlestick, so murders her.
He then tries to commit suicide.He's arrested, it's a big
scandal, but he manages to obtain some poison while he's
(25:10):
arrested and kills himself whilein custody.
And that means he avoids trial. And there's a rumour even today
that the government managed to get him some poison so that they
were spared the scandal of a trial.
But in any case, there's a huge scandal.
And this totally discredits the king and the court.
(25:32):
It makes the aristocrats look debauched because the Duke was
having an affair with the governess and he killed his
wife. Seems like there's no honour and
no principles, yeah? I've read, I've read that that
the general populace thought they were.
They thought the aristocrats were above the law and didn't
have to answer any penalties. Exactly.
(25:52):
And it really plays into that. So the king there is a
revolution in 1848. And although it's a contributing
fact, it's not their it's not their sort of match that lights
the powder cake. It's a contributing factor.
And it really people demanding better moles from their
(26:13):
government is you get a real sense of that.
And with the the Duke being wellconnected to King Louis
Philippe, it makes it even worse.
Now there is a rumour that the Duke didn't kill himself, but
was given a new identity and ended up in Nicaragua.
And I've seen online the whole thread of arguments as to why
(26:38):
that is or isn't the case. But leave that to your listeners
to, to maybe go off and have a look at that.
But it's an interesting little episode.
And yeah, it was an important episode in in French history.
Well. Sebastiani dies three years
later at the age of 79. What do you think his legacy is?
Well, the fact that he's 79, he's an old, he's an old guy and
(27:00):
ends up at the top of his game, I think that's probably 1
legacy. He has that legacy as a
statesman, as a minister, as a diplomat.
French hero in a way, managed tonegotiate his way through all
the ups and downs of 19th century French history.
So hats off to him for that. A successful Corsican in Paris.
(27:25):
However, an awful personal life with his wife dying and his
daughter dying, yeah. Really difficult personal life
and I think he didn't, he didn'tmarry again until much later on
in his life. There was that the whole period
of the Napoleon, it was after 1807 when his wife died.
He was he was a bachelor, but aswe're talking about Napoleon's
generals, I think that the legacy as a soldier is, is more
(27:49):
questionable. And I I find him oddly lacking.
And I think, like I mentioned, Ithink he'd make a good Colonel,
but he never was able quite to raise his game when in charge of
something more complicated or bigger like a call or to
coordinate that with other generals and do that successful
(28:11):
successfully. And I think that he lacked that
sort of effortless ability to command.
But instead of that, you know, he was always available, always
willing, Just not very inspirational.
Yeah. And.
And you credited him, you know, he was able to pivot his career.
Like, all right, well, I'm, I'm not going to be a general
anymore. I'll be a politician and, and a
diplomat. And he, I think he did well with
it. Yeah, I think he was better off
(28:34):
as with that as a career than asa soldier, because I think as a
soldier, well, he, he did work his men hard.
He's he's like Murat in that sense.
If you want to destroy your cavalry without achieving great
results, then give them to Sebastiani.
But you know, that's probably not what you want on the on the
core level. But there are plenty of colonels
(28:54):
who did that and and got away with it.
And I think Sebastiani was probably should have been one of
those. Yeah.
Yeah, well, I thank you for thatJonathan.
Wonderful episode on Sebastiani again.
Recommend you check out all of Jonathan's books.
The Death of Joaquim Yarra is a really good one.
Killing Napoleon also very good.And what discusses the
assassination attempts on Napoleon?
(29:16):
But yeah, great having you on the show my friend.
I really learned a lot. Thank you.
It was a pleasure talking to you, John, and have a great
afternoon.
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