Spirits of the White Dove of the Desert: Paranormal Investigation of San Xavier Mission

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Logan (00:00):
Nestled in the dusty heart of the snoring desert,
just south of Tucson, stands abeacon of faith and of history
San Javier Mission del Bac.
Built in the late 1700s, itswhite adobe walls have withstood
centuries of prayer, promiseand perhaps the paranormal, some
say.
The whispers of monks echo inthe chapels and shadowy figures

(00:22):
drift among the candlelit pews.
Is it memory or is it somethingmore?
Either way, this is a sacredplace and it's more than just a
church.
It's a legend, and they call itthe white dove of the desert.
Thank you Well.

(01:24):
Hey everybody, welcome back.
Hey everyone, I'm Logan and I'mNicole and we are Generation X
Paranormal.
You know it's funny.
Before we got on air today wecan see out of our window of our
studio and no kidding, wewatched our neighbor.
You guys liked it, especiallyGen X.
Our neighbor drove their trashfrom their garage to another

(01:47):
driveway and then put it inthere.
I swear if they had gotten astick out to beat it, I would
have turned totally into TomHanks.

Nicole (01:54):
I know I looked at him and I said, hey, we're living in
the burbs.

Logan (01:58):
I know it's like I want it so bad to say I've never seen
that.
I've never seen anybody drivetheir trash down to the end of
the block or the end of theirdriveway and beat it with a
stick.

Nicole (02:07):
I've never seen that and we just watched a movie like a
few days ago, and that's whatwas funny oh my gosh.

Logan (02:13):
Anyway, guys, we've got a great show.
Um, we're gonna be talkingabout something that's very
important, um, really to a lotof people.
But it's kind of got a specialplace in my heart because I'm
from Tucson and I'm repping theTucson hat.
But if I can just for a secondkind of be real with you guys,

(02:34):
it is still a very active placeof worship and at no time did we
ever disrupt anybody's worship.
We always we did everything wedid with the utmost respect and
we want to make sure that if anyof you decide to go there,
please show the the the place,the respect it deserves.
Okay, that's our psa warningfor this, um, because it is

(02:56):
important, uh, it's important tocultures, is important to a lot
of people in arizona.
But, um, but yeah, it was quitean interesting trip.
Uh, we've done a couple ofshows for from our arizona trip.
Yeah, uh, we did, of course, uof a um university of arizona
wildcats.
Thank you, um and uh we didjerome, jerome yeah so this is

(03:17):
kind of the the end of thatseries, probably not the last
time we'll ever investigatesomething out in that area but
uh yeah.
So this place is reallyimportant to me, um, honestly,
for for one of the main reasonsthat my grandmother was an
absolute staunch catholic, she,she, I mean she would go there
every.
We tried to take her everyweekend, um, and anybody from

(03:39):
tucson knows this, that, um, butheck, you don't have to be from
tucson, but you would go tothis place and you buy the
candle and then you would.
But you would go to this placeand you'd buy the candle and
then you would go and you would.
You know, my grandmother usedto make this whole thing about
it where she would touch SanJavier's head.
So there's like a and we'll getinto this later but there's
like this, I don't know, I guess, effigy lack of better words of

(04:01):
San Javier, it's obviously nothis real remains, but effigy
lack of better words of SanJavier, it's not obviously not
his real remains, but she wouldkiss her hand and put it on his
forehead.
And what a lot of people woulddo and we'll get into the
history to why and it'll make alot more sense here later is
people would bring pictures ofill one, ill members of their
family, people who needed help,and they would pin it to like a
blanket that would drape overhim and obviously was to signify

(04:25):
prayer for people to to heal,and so it's very important
culturally.
Um, in my, I tell you, I can'ttell you, I can't enumerate how
many times I've been there,because it was such an integral
part of me growing up, andanybody who's got brown skin or
who doesn't have brown skinknows that it is just a place
that you go when you're a Tucsonnative.

(04:48):
It is.
People have gone there forquinceaneras, people have gone
there for weddings, people havegone there for well, of course,
you know, for funeralprocessions.
It is a fully functioningchurch, yes, but it is very
integral to Tucson, even for asbig of a city as Tucson is.
Let me tell you something youcan't miss it.

(05:09):
When you're driving down thefreeway I-10 or even I-19, and
you look off to the left, yousee this beautiful desert
landscape and that white sticksout like a sore thumb.
It does I shouldn't say sorethumb, but it sticks out like
this beautiful thing in thedesert, out like a sore thumb.
It does I shouldn't say sorethumb, but it sticks out like
this beautiful thing in thedesert.
So it is, it's very importantto people in that area and to uh

(05:29):
to our culture.
So it is a.
It is a place that holds a verydear place in my heart yeah,
yeah, and we've been thereseveral times.

Nicole (05:36):
I mean I I remember when I think we'd just first gotten
married, the first time we wentout there.
You know, like I'm gonna takeyou to son javier mission and
I'm like what's that?
Like I understand why it was soimportant, but the first gift
you ever got me when we weredating.
Yeah, you brought me a piece ofpottery back.

Logan (05:54):
That's right, I remember yeah, in fact, we still have the
mission yeah yeah, yeah, thatis actually the first gift I
ever got.
You remember that?
Yeah, it's um and there's look,it's the same thing, you'd see
it and most you know, uh,churches and stuff like that
there's.
You know, there's places whereyou get, where you worship and
stuff, but there's also like uh,you know, I wouldn't say a

(06:15):
souvenir, let's call it a giftshop yeah, because I mean they
do give tours and stuff likethat so right and it's important
because in again we'll get intoa lot of this history, but it's
for the Tohono O'odham Nationand it really does help support
their needs and stuff becauseyou know they're trying to make
it's on the reservation.

Nicole (06:34):
Right, it's on the reservation.

Logan (06:35):
And I also want to add that, as we talk about these
things, nicole and I mayreference to things that were
written a long time ago.

Nicole (06:46):
And Nicole and I may reference to things that were
written a long time ago.

Logan (06:49):
Well, and still somewhat called that today but we're
going to try to say the correctname for them.
But the name Papago is not theactual, correct way of saying.
I shouldn't say correct, but itis not.
It is a white way of sayingTahona, o'odham, tahona.
O'odham is the nation that we'retalking about.
So, anyway, kind of importantstuff.
But yeah, please understand, wetook the utmost care.

(07:13):
We were respectful because wedid hear a lot of things.
I heard a lot of stuff growingup, when you're there, I
especially I always get shadowplay, and it's tough to tell
because and you guys will seethis moving on but there's a lot
of places where you can catchshadows.
There are statues everywhere.
There's these, you know,there's these views.

(07:35):
Dark corners Right dark cornersso it's easy to let your mind
and your eyesight wander.
But there has been a lot ofstuff.
I personally have seen brightlights go through there that
shouldn't have been there noflash photography, nothing.
And as a kid I remember my dadtaking pictures and if I find

(07:59):
them I'll put them on here andI'll look for them.
But he even caught lights andweird things in there.
The mon here and I'll look forhim, but he even caught lights
and weird things in there, andyou got to remember.
It's tough because there are somany different things that you
can catch shadows on reflectivesurfaces.
Listen, if you look online,there is no.
There is no shortages of peoplethat have caught things or seen

(08:20):
things.
You know, of course, orbs, yeah, of course, a lot of that has
been debunked as dust and stuffdust, especially in the desert
right I mean, it is in themiddle of the desert, the dry,
the.
The parking lot is not paved.
No, it's dirt.
So no, you know, just it is.
It is part of the issue.
So, um, but yeah, I it's.

(08:41):
I'm excited to talk about itand, I'll be honest, at first I
was a little reluctant to wantto do anything on this because
of how significant it is to me,not only culturally but as a
native, both native in ancestryand in Tucson.
But I wanted to do somethingthat showed how respectful it is

(09:03):
and I wanted you guys to knowthe history of it, because it
does have some reported thingsthat have happened.

Nicole (09:11):
Yes, and a lot more that we discovered, which we'll get
into later.

Logan (09:15):
For sure.

Nicole (09:15):
Which, more than anything, I just want to tell
that story.

Logan (09:18):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Yeah, let's get into it.
Let's get into it.
Now.
Of course, in anything that wedo, we always try to focus in on
the history.
There's a lot of people that doinvestigations, that sort of
research, the paranormal, andit's not that it's wrong not to
People don't choose necessarilyto do that.

(09:38):
We do.
We find it's important becausenot only are you paying respect
in some way, shape or form, tothe potential entities that
you'll be dealing with, but itactually helps meld your and I
use that word meld because it'simportant it helps to meld your
investigation.

(09:58):
At least for us it does, Ithink.

Nicole (10:00):
Yeah Well, we always do a mini, you know mini lookup of
history.
That's right, but we don't gofull into it until afterwards,
because sometimes that's when wediscover the best thing.
Kind of like University ofArizona.
What happened there?
It was very interesting.
Extremely interesting, kind oflike a parallel in some way with
this.

Logan (10:19):
Yeah, that's.
True, that came Pretty much so.

Nicole (10:23):
We're going to start with the history.

Logan (10:24):
Let's do it.

Nicole (10:25):
Obviously this is in Tucson, arizona.
Okay, so it's desert southwestIf you've never been there.
Mountain ranges, lots of gritty, dirty sand, very windy.
It can be flat in between themountain ranges right, yeah,
absolutely, that's what you'repicturing.
It's not the Sahara like peoplealways imagine, but you've got

(10:46):
trees, you've got bushes.
I mean, there was water, butover time, just like any
continent, things have changed.
Yeah, okay, so we're gonna goback way, way back.
Okay, so the mission lies aboutnine miles south of tucson.
Okay, so it's not right in thecity.
Now.
There was a spanish colonialchurch that was built there.

(11:09):
Okay, it has baroque altars andhand-painted frescoes on the
inside.
It's called the white dove ofthe desert and it is the heart
of the tohono o'odhamreservation.
Yes, it is okay.
Um, it's a beacon ofspirituality for the natives who
live in the desert.
Yep, but before that missionwas there many, many, many years

(11:31):
back.
We don't even know how far back.
It was originally the area forthe Bok, which is why they
called it Okay.
Now I think it was actually.
That was a Spanish name,because it was actually W-A-K
and I don't know how it waspronounced Okay In the native
language, but it's like walk orprobably sounded kind of like

(11:51):
that and they changed it.
But it means where the wateroozes from the sand.

Logan (11:56):
Oh, that's cool.

Nicole (11:57):
Yeah, so now this was the village.
Okay, so it wasn't Tahona Odom,which is what they call papago,
right, but it was this and Ican't, I don't know, it's a
native word, so I'm gonna try mybest, but soba puri, soba puri.
Yeah, odom people.
Okay, so it's like a sanctionof that I.

Logan (12:17):
I think that's the right way to pronounce.

Nicole (12:18):
I don't know even myself , to be honest now, the santa
cruz river flows nearby, okay,now I knew you're gonna say this
it did flow by at this point intime.
But I remember the first timeyou took me to arizona after we
were married and you're like, oh, look, there's a river.
And I looked over, I'm likewhere?
Like I kept looking for thisand he's like it's right there

(12:40):
and I'm like, where there's not,I don't see any water.
He's like, well, that's whereit would flow if there's water.
And I said there's water, butthey call them washes.
Yes, now, when, when it theyhave the heavy deluge of rain,
like the monsoons, come in, thenthere's water, but it's usually
like a flash flood typesituation, dangerous, but you
don't see rivers like you see,like I'm from missouri, okay,

(13:03):
and so I'm, I'm thinking lookingright, I'm like thinking, okay,
maybe it's like way out in thedesert yeah he's like no, it's
like right there, and I'm likewell, and what's funny is um

Logan (13:14):
it's like we always laugh about that now, every time,
every time we go visit, it'salways like, oh, there's the
river.
We even have a road calledRiver Road in Tucson.

Nicole (13:25):
And it goes by, there's no water.

Logan (13:26):
I know Well, it goes by a different river, by the.
I can't even talk today.
Yes, it goes by another river,but yeah, there's no running
water.
It's underground, it's in thewater table.

Nicole (13:39):
But, so going back to what we were getting to, Thank
you the Santa Cruz River.
There's actually water in theriver at this point in time.
Okay, so it was like thelifeblood of this village.
Okay, now, the people of thisnation were not.
And when I say nation you'regoing to, I don't want you to
get confused.
Okay, I'm meaning tribe.

(14:01):
What people would call a tribe,but they prefer to be Right.
I'm meaning tribe.
What people?

Logan (14:05):
would call a tribe but, they prefer to be called nation.
Right A tribe, it is a wordthat isn't as evil, but you got
to remember they're nations ofpeople, different cultures,
different languages, so it'spreferred to be called nation.

Nicole (14:23):
Yeah, so that's what I mean when I say that.
So when I say nation, thinktribe what you've always heard.
Okay, so this nation was knownto be very generous in giving
you know.
You hear about different nativenations, like there was the war
fighting ones, you know, andthere's the peaceful ones.
Well, these were the peacefuland they spent their days, you

(14:44):
know, like any other peoplewould, providing for their
family, and they also playedgames.
They had some games that theyplayed.
They worked together andcooperation was key for their
survival.
Right Okay, now, in the late1600s there were Spanish
missionaries that traveled upthrough Mexico into the Arizona

(15:05):
territory Now Arizona is not astate yet Right Okay, still
belonged to Mexico technically,so that's why they're traveling
up there Now.
The natives at Bach, okay, wereexperiencing a drought at the
time and had heard of thisSpanish missionary named Padre
Francisco Esubio Quino, and theydecided to invite him to visit

(15:28):
them at their village.
And so Father Quino arrived atBac around 1692.
And, in his own words, he foundthe natives very affable and
friendly.
He showed them a map of theworld and showed them how far he
had traveled to speak to themabout God.
Obviously, he couldn't speakthe language, so he's like
pointing and right, right, okay,here's the important part.

(15:50):
Okay, they're going throughdrought.
Right, he introduced livestock,grains, veggies and fruits to
the village.
So think about this they'reliving there, they're going
through a drought, they can'tgrow their food.

Logan (16:03):
He comes with all this stuff.
Right, okay, it's bountiful forthem.
Yes.

Nicole (16:08):
So this is a good sign, right, right, okay.
Now Father Kino decided to makea Spanish mission and to name
it San Javier after a SpanishBosque missionary, san Francisco
Javier, who he considered hispatron saint after he was made

(16:29):
well from a mortal illness afterpraying to San Javier.

Logan (16:33):
That's right.

Nicole (16:34):
Okay, so that's what the mission is named after, right?
Not that San Javier was everthere, right, it's just he, you
know, thought this man saved him.
That's right, because inCatholicism it's a lot of saints
.
They pray to a lot of saints.

Logan (16:47):
Yes, yes, it is quite a different, a big departure from
you know Christianity, whereit's just prayer to you know
Jesus, to God and all thosethings there are a lot, lots of
saints for different things.

Nicole (17:03):
Okay Now, keno was there for a while.
Okay, and and as I talk aboutthis, you know, another, another
, padre will come and relievethe other one and they'll work
together and then, when onepasses away, to pass the next.
So I'm trying to there's somuch history here that I can't
spend hours talking in depthabout it, so I'm going to try to

(17:24):
, you know, speak about the mostimportant parts and keno was
very important, so it's hard togloss over.

Logan (17:30):
I mean, there's keno hospital, there was keno parkway
.

Nicole (17:33):
Well, he was the first one to come there and to
establish this as a mission tothe natives to bring religion to
them okay, so after.
So, after Father Kino's death,there was a Father Alonzo
Espinoza, who actually built thefirst church that this mission
would see.
Okay, now, it was a flat-roofed, hall-shaped structure made

(17:55):
with sun-dried mud adobe.
Okay, so they use adobe to keepthem cool in the summer, yep,
and keep them warm in the winter.

Logan (18:05):
Yeah, it's an insulator.

Nicole (18:06):
Okay, so not much to say about I'm sure he did wonderful
things, but I don't haveanything to tell you about him.
But after he died, this FatherValdorain came in and he
actually is the one thatconstructed the plans for a new
church to be built, because theoriginal structure was starting
to disintegrate.

(18:26):
Sure, okay, so he's the oneresponsible for starting these
plans, for the one that we knowof today, right, okay, he knows
that he wanted it to be aSpanish architecture, so he
hired two architects this isimportant, very important.
Ignacio Guana, I think so.
Okay, along with his brother,to build this church.

(18:49):
Okay, so, two native Mexican,however you want to frame that
up, okay, people to build thischurch.
They began construction in 1783.
They started excavatingtrenches for footings, they
gathered large volcanic rocksfor the foundation, as well as
using it for the burned brickveneer walls.

(19:11):
Yeah, okay, they used clay andwood in the interior
construction of the church.
The this, I, this, I thoughtwas really interesting that I
found.
So the women of the village, sothe natives were tasked with
walking to the Black MountainRange.
Now, when you're standing here,those mountains are a very long

(19:33):
way away.

Logan (19:34):
They are quite a ways.

Nicole (19:36):
I mean, it's not like they're right there, no, but
they walked to the BlackMountain Range to collect these
massive rocks for the foundation.
They would walk for miles inthe desert, summer heat, with
large boulders on their heads,and these rocks were looked at
as sacred to the natives becausethey were responsible for

(19:58):
building this church for them.
Yeah, so if they dropped one,they felt like the spell of the,
you know, spirituality wasbroken and they'd leave it where
it was and they'd have to gowalk all the way back to the
mountain and grab another one.
Jeez.

Logan (20:14):
That is a lot.

Nicole (20:14):
That's dedication is what it is Now.
I thought this was interestingtoo.
So the bell clappers, which are, you know, basically the inside
of the bell, that bell that,like, hits against the side,
that makes the sound right rightare?
They're said.
We don't know this for sure,but they're said to be made of
meteorites that had landed closeto the mission now that's not a
big stretch, because no, I meanI don't know that that's

(20:37):
verified but yeah that's thegoing rumor.
That's cool.
That's cool.
So so far we've got rocks, youknow, volcanic rock.
We've got who knows what allthese rocks are and meteorites
and the construction of thechurch.

Logan (20:52):
Yeah, we'll get to this later why this is important it's
very important and for those ofyou playing along, you gotta
understand that rock inmaterials very important to the
paranormal.

Nicole (21:03):
Yes, it is okay.
So we're, you know, starting tobegin the the building of this
church okay, now, on may 2nd of1790, father veldering, who
started this, died vomitingblood I don't know tuberculosis
probably it's what it soundslike, yeah now he's rumored to

(21:26):
have been buried beneath thesanctuary of the church, because
they were still building it.

Logan (21:30):
Yeah.

Nicole (21:31):
They had built the foundation, but they hadn't
started putting the flooring andall that other stuff in.
So that's interesting.
It's very interesting.
He's buried there Now after 14years of construction.
The church was nearing itscompletion in 1797.
However, the East Bell Towerwas never completed, so there's
two towers.

(21:52):
When you look at the picturesof this, there's one on the left
, one on the right, and thiswould be the right side.
Now there are many rumors,legends of why this was never
completed.
The first one is and this isthe going one that I found the
most- Is that?
one of the architects of the twobrothers that we spoke about

(22:13):
before fell from the tower andcrashed to his death.

Logan (22:17):
And this would have been Ignacio.

Nicole (22:18):
Yes, Now, after this happened, they said they
couldn't get any other person toclimb the tower and complete it
.
Well, that makes sense.
I mean, I'm not going to rushright up there if somebody else
fell, but the natives have alegend that he turned into a
rattlesnake when he struck theground and that it lives beneath

(22:38):
the mission floor, under thetower.

Logan (22:41):
Hmm, I have heard that Mm-hmm.

Nicole (22:49):
Yeah, the tower.
Hmm, I have heard that.
Um, yeah, and there's somethinginteresting with that
reservation and likerattlesnakes in that culture,
because I don't know if youremember this, when we were
living out there, we I'd comehome from work one day and there
was a rattlesnake right infront of our front door and I I
didn't get in close.
I was like nope, not doing it.
And when you came home we hadcalled.

(23:10):
What was it like animal controlor the fire?
Department or something,because that's what you're
supposed to do out there andcome get it.
Well, when the whoever it was, Ican't remember who- it was.

Logan (23:20):
It was animal control.

Nicole (23:21):
Yeah, they came.
It was actually dead because,it actually killed itself, like
it had wrapped its neck, likearound it behind and like stuck
its fangs itself.
All the tools have its fangsinside of its body yeah now,
what's interesting is like wehad went to the mission like

(23:44):
that weekend and my mother waswith us.

Logan (23:47):
Yeah.

Nicole (23:47):
And we spoke to one of the natives at one because
there's these shops out front toone of the natives there and he
had said well, that meanssomething bad was supposed to
happen.
Your family and the snake didthat to protect kind of a
sacrifice like a sacrifice, andI thought that was a very
interesting translation of that.
Now, if you Google it, it saysthat the snake is already dying

(24:11):
and they basically commitsuicide before they starve to
death.
Or it's either that or they'vebeen excluded from there, right,
they've been shunned.

Logan (24:21):
Yeah, the shunning, the shunning.
Which, by the way, I arizonathe majority of my life.
I had never seen that before,ever it was really strange but.

Nicole (24:32):
I I love the explanation from yeah the native man at the
at the mission about that on,so I, when I read this about him
turning into ralph's on.
There's something with yes,thelesnake there.

Logan (24:44):
It's easy to make that correlation.

Nicole (24:46):
Yeah.
Well that's the first thing Ithought of when I read that.
But anyway, back to it.
So that's the first reasoning,okay.

Logan (24:54):
Okay.

Nicole (24:55):
Second reasoning is that they never completed it to
avoid paying taxes to the crown,because obviously the Spanish
crown is responsible for sendingthese missionaries out.
So they think, you know, theybuild this church.
Once they complete it, thenthey are responsible for giving
money back to the crown.
They're like, if we technicallydon't complete it, we don't
have to pay them.
Yeah, that's a little weak,right, so we'll get back to that

(25:21):
later, but those are theexplanations.
Okay, now at the church'scompletion at this stage.
Okay, it was 99 feet long, 22feet wide at the nave and 60
foot wide with the two sidechapels, so it's basically like
a big rectangle square at thispoint okay.

(25:42):
The ceiling was set with archesand domes, square right at this
point.
Okay, the ceiling was set witharches and domes.
There were 38 full figurestatues, with three figures
draped in garments, and therewere countless angels and
seraphim gazing down from thewalls above.
And it's still there.

Logan (25:56):
You can still see this yeah, we'll definitely add
pictures of it and and I hope, Ihope they do it justice,
because unless you're there, youdon't really get just the
dimension of everything and howawe-inspiring it is.

Nicole (26:11):
And I will say this is you know, not every podcast is
do you need to go watch thevideo?
But this would be one thatwould be very beneficial in
doing so because, you know,during our investigation we
filmed ourselves walking around.
I took multiple pictures withmy camera so you can kind of get
an idea of what this placelooks like um, so please go and

(26:31):
look at that, because it's just,it's so beautiful inside.
I agree it's absolutelygorgeous and it's I mean, look
how old 1790s yeah I mean, howmany buildings in the US are
that old?

Logan (26:44):
and still together and functional.

Nicole (26:47):
Yes.

Logan (26:47):
Yeah, and to tell you the truth, I feel like I was kind
of I don't know.
I feel like that was somethingI took a lot for granted as a
kid, because I'd go to thisplace and I thought, okay, this
is, you know, this is how thesethings are done.

Nicole (27:09):
Now, I've traveled the world you know, we've done so
many different things and I haveyet to ever see anything quite
like that.
Yeah, there's something veryspecial about it.
You can definitely feel thehistory when you walk in.
Absolutely Okay, so this iswhere we are.
So the main part of the churchis completed now.
So now they have a place toworship.
Okay, on August 4th of 1804,theucson, presidial command
commandant.
I always say that wrong yeah,it's okay, you got it right.

(27:31):
Jose zuniga, okay.
Responded to a question aboutthe reasons for them building
this elaborate church in thedesert, and this is his quote
the reason for this ornatechurch at this last outpost of
the frontier is not only tocongregate Christian Pimas.

(27:52):
Pimas are this native group ofthe San Javier village, but also
to attract by its sheer beautythe unconverted Papagos and Hila
Pimas beyond the frontier.
I have thought it worthwhile todescribe it in such detail
because of the wonder that suchan elaborate building could be

(28:14):
constructed at all on thisfarthest frontier, against the
Apache.
So we need to talk about that alittle bit.
Apaches Everybody knowsGeronimo.
Geronimo was an Apache.
Cochise, Cochise was an Apache.
They're one of thosewar-raiding tribes.
They like to fight.

(28:35):
Okay, Not just the Americansoldiers, but also other nations
?
Yes, they do.
They would come and steal youknow, steal sheep, and they were
always going across the borderinto Mexico, fighting them.

Logan (28:52):
They were nomads, and that was the whole thing.

Nicole (28:56):
So they were already coming against this nation all
the time, and so it was like acollective, like let's bring
more people together, you know,convert them into this religion,
but also now we can protectourselves against them, because
they're always coming to trouble.
So that's kind of what thatmeant.

Logan (29:15):
Yeah, I mean, look, it is what it is.

Nicole (29:17):
And you're related to them?
Yeah, I am.
That's what I think is funny.

Logan (29:20):
And I will say this of my blood.
We're nomadic.
That's what they were and theystill really kind of are.
But you know they would go onthese long tracks and then, I
mean honestly, they'd come backto find family members killed
and all these atrocities done.
You only do that for so longbefore eye for an eye and you

(29:43):
know, blood for blood there's areason for it.

Nicole (29:48):
So yeah, that was kind of.
Yeah, it is funny especiallysince you went there so much as
a kid.

Logan (29:52):
But then your other side of your bloodline is that, and I
thought it was kind of funny.
It is quite ironic, don't youthink?

Nicole (29:59):
yeah, all right, we're not bursting in the song, okay
fair enough, okay, so let's jumpforward.
Okay, in 18.
Well, I don't know exactly whenit started, but it was in the
late 1860s.
Okay, the smallpox epidemicstarted, yeah, okay, now it

(30:19):
devastated the population ofthis odom natives at this
mission.
Okay, I mean, they almostcompletely wiped them out.
So, with only a handful of themleft, the nation became, well,
the Papago Nation.
So now we're talking about whenI say Papago, it means Tohono
Odom instead of the Sobapari.

Logan (30:41):
Odom Okay.

Nicole (30:43):
So the Tohono Odom nation now becomes the main
population in the area of themission, which is what is there
today.
Okay, in the following years,more natives from neighboring
areas were invited to themission to grow their crops.
In exchange, they had to agreeto Christian instruction, so

(31:05):
they used the opportunity ofthem not being able to grow food
to get them there, to convertthem.

Logan (31:10):
Yeah, there's so much weight in that sentence that we
won't get into.
But read your history books,guys.
So that's where we are.

Nicole (31:21):
Now, in 1870, the US Department of Indian Affairs
decided that they wanted to opena convent school to start
converting the children of thenative population.
So they invited this, which isjust crazy to me of all the
places they invited the Sistersof St Joseph Carondelet from St

(31:45):
Louis, Missouri how about thatwhich sent several nuns to
Saint-Javier to become theteachers to take care of the
native children.
Okay, their journey west was aninspiration for the movie
Lilies of the Field with SidneyPoitier.

Logan (31:59):
Yep.

Nicole (32:01):
And I'd never seen the movie.
But I did look it up and it'spretty different.
But I thought that wasinteresting, that it inspired
that movie.

Logan (32:12):
I kind of want to go and watch it now.

Nicole (32:13):
But now the school was not open for very long before it
closed down.
Right very, very short timeperiod.
We're jumping forward to 1880.
Now I found this because I'mlike I wonder what else could be
in the area and this came up.
So San Javier also had like amining and smelter company that

(32:38):
opened the San Javier WesternExtension Mine, which was
several miles south along theSanta Cruz River.
Yeah, they mined ore, which wasso.
Ore was made up of copper, leadand silver, yep.
So this is important.
Yeah, I grew up Copper is veryimportant, yeah With the
paranormal community.

Logan (32:58):
Very much so, and what's interesting is, my family were
copper smelters.
My father was a copper smelter.
Before we went to college, mygrandfather was a copper smelter
.

Nicole (33:09):
That is something that you grew up at around as a kid,
so copper is is an interestingpart of all this and there's
something else there was acopper state yeah, well, there
was also a white quartz farm,yeah, that opened in 1883
several miles south of themission and they even had like a

(33:31):
, a stone corral for like theiranimals and stuff.
I'm like, so quartz and copperare right there yeah you've got
volcanic rock, you gotmeteorites.
I mean all this coming together, all that stone could be
holding on to all this energy.

Logan (33:48):
You know what I'm saying we just talked to greg brissani,
who makes his stuff out of bigold copper and quartz.
Yeah, so if you?

Nicole (33:54):
haven't listened to that episode.
We explained that whole thing.
But yeah, it can.
It can help build that energy.
They can use that to tomanifest and to speak to us.
So I thought that was reallyinteresting and I I have a
couple like newspaper articleshere that I found that to prove
that it actually existed yeah,it sure did, because there's not

(34:14):
much out there, okay, so now umwe are to may 3rd 1887.
This is a big deal okay, deal.
So a devastating earthquake,measuring a 7.2 on the Richter
scale, struck in the SanBernardino Valley in northeast
Sonora Mexico.

Logan (34:35):
Yes, and 7.2, guys that's a big quake even by today's
standards.

Nicole (34:42):
So the mission is about 140 miles northwest of this.
Okay, so they had about, Iguess, only like 30% of the
intensity and, you know, out ofthe 100% that they could have
had, but that's still.

Logan (35:01):
That's still pretty devastating.
Yeah, yeah, and remember,structures weren't made the way
they're made now.

Nicole (35:07):
Well, I mean 30% less is what I meant.

Logan (35:09):
Right, right, right.
They got 70% of the.

Nicole (35:11):
I knew what you meant, yeah yeah, so I mean, still 70%
is massive but that's a lot yeah.
Yeah.
Now the shock knocked down themission's atrium wall and
gateway in front of the church.
It flattened nearly all but theeastern portions of the
cemetery wall.
It felled the far east lowercolumn on the facade as well as
the finial atop the upper westcolumn and opened a

(35:34):
floor-to-ceiling crack in thewest wall of the west transept.
Now a lot of this stuff is justunless you know buildings and
how, the way they're built.

Logan (35:43):
I don't even know how you said it all, but yeah, wow.

Nicole (35:47):
But yeah, and I excuse you, I have been outside doing
gardening stuff and cleaningstuff up, so my allergies are at
the top.
It's.

Logan (35:56):
Missouri.

Nicole (35:56):
Yeah, all the pollen.
That's right Now there was 100adobe buildings that were
cracked and crumbled in thisarea, so the Adobe buildings
would be what the natives areliving in around the mission at
this point.
Yep, okay, and other likeconvent and stuff like that.
So 100 of them cracked andcrumbled.

Logan (36:17):
Yeah, I mean that's devastating to that whole
community.
I mean that is especially atthis time and place.
You know it's not like you, canyou know?
There's a ton of contractorsout there.
They can just call and say, hey, come fix our stuff or right
you know they were living handto mouth.
So you lose 100 structures.

Nicole (36:33):
I mean that's, that's cataclysmic now the public
school building um rocked to andfro the waves lasting four
minutes long I mean four minutesis not long if you're watching
tv, but if you're sitting goingthrough something that scary,
four minutes is like a lifetimeI don't know.
Four minutes of kardashians ispretty long well, I wouldn't

(36:56):
know, because I don't neverwatch that I'm sorry if you're a
fan, I apologize.

Logan (37:00):
Uh, from somebody who's been through earthquakes seen
especially when I was in sandiego, they, the they're very.
I want to say they're short.
It's not a very long amount oftime, at least not the ones I've
ever been through.
So four minutes of it rocking,that is.
It's a long that is incrediblyscary now, thankfully.

Nicole (37:21):
Thankfully, there were no casualties reported from the
mission or even the surroundingtown of Tucson.
So it was scary and itdestroyed a lot of things, but
nobody died.

Logan (37:31):
Well, the good news for that is because most deaths in
earthquakes are from thingsfalling on people, so out there
in the desert they didn't have awhole lot of high structures.

Nicole (37:46):
So we do have a picture and we'll put this up here of
the mission now.
It's a very old crumplednewspaper um picture of, but you
can see some of the rock aroundthe mission that had fallen
down yeah, and the picture thatwe put up, the, the, the mission
isn't cut in half, guys, it'sjust.
It's the stuff, the that wasaround the felt, it's just an

(38:06):
old picture yeah, but we've gotanother one of like the cemetery
wall falling down, which isjust the left of the mission I
just didn't want people to lookat it and go oh my god, it took
the door, the whole thing inhalf yeah now, the mission
obviously needed to be repaired,right, um?
so they just decided to go aheadwhen they did that and reopen

(38:27):
the convent school in 1889.
But this time the IndianAffairs had nothing to do with
it, so the government hadnothing to do with it and it was
all controlled and run by thenuns.
Okay, so in 1946, now we justjumped a little bit further in
time just to explain this A newschool building was built for
the mission at an estimated costof $25,000.

(38:50):
And it was opened on January2nd of 1947 and had 70 to 80
students attending the firstyear.
That's a lot.
That's a lot $25,000.

Logan (38:59):
Mm-hmm, talk about inflation.

Nicole (39:02):
Yeah.

Logan (39:03):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, our Jeep doesn't even.
You couldn't even buy that withthat.

Nicole (39:07):
Anyway, I don't know what I'm saying.
Okay, now, on October 9th of1960.
So we're jumping really farforward because I mean, yeah,
did things happen in betweenthat time?
Did they add on to the church?
Yes, they added all these extrabuildings, they added walls,
they added this and that.
And you know, I've got a couplelike newspaper articles here,

(39:29):
some pictures I've got a pictureof the nuns and the school
children and just changes in themission.

Logan (39:38):
Right.

Nicole (39:38):
But nothing that we need to go over, because it would
take forever.
But yeah, things happen, butlife progressed as it does.
Yeah, okay, we need to go over,because this would it would
take forever.
But yeah, things happened, butlife progressed as it is okay,
so on october 9th of 1960, thesan javier mission was
recognized as a nationalhistoric landmark.
Yeah, and there's actually alittle plaque which will show.
That's the picture that I did,um it's a very nice picture yeah

(40:00):
, well, yeah, okay.
So this is important.
Remember this for later.
In 1973, thieves stole a largestatue of Saint-Javier, which
was believed to be French anddated between 1850 to 1925.
The cast plaster figure hadappeared in both transepts, in
the Soto Coro and in the nicheabove the tabernacle, which I

(40:23):
don't know what any of thatmeans, and I think we actually
might have a picture of it.

Logan (40:27):
So the tabernacle, I believe and I'm sorry if I get
this wrong is where the priestcomes up and does his sermon.
It's got that thing above him,and right above him is a niche.

Nicole (40:41):
Well, there's lots of niches, it's plural.

Logan (40:44):
It's not like cactus, it cactus, not like it's niche.

Nicole (40:46):
I yeah it's just there's a lot of yeah, okay now in
february of 1974 two villagersreceived permission to repair
the, so I guess they must havetorn the head off or something
yeah so they repaired theheadless statue of san javier.
Um no, I've got a picture ofthe repaired statue, right that
we'll put up here.

(41:06):
Okay, all right, so we'recomplete with the history for as
of now.
Okay, okay, for what?
what I kind of knew going intoit, what we kind of knew, what I
had kind of looked up wheneveryou go on a investigation, you
always want to look up up andsee what people have claimed,
right, okay, what they'veclaimed to have seen, what

(41:27):
they've claimed to haveexperienced, you know things
that they got.
You don't have to go in depth,but it's nice to kind of know
what to expect.
Sure, okay, and so these arethe things that have been
claimed at San Javier.
Okay, okay, so this is what weknew going into it, okay, so,

(41:48):
obviously, number one is the onethat you see everywhere is the
architect falling from the tower.

Logan (41:55):
Ignacio.

Nicole (41:56):
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Well, we you know.
It's just the architect fallingfrom the tower.

Logan (41:59):
Right.

Nicole (42:00):
Okay, and they say that it feels like someone is
watching you from the tower.
So this is him watching youfrom the tower, Right, Okay?
So we are going in thinkingokay, let's focus on the tower.

Logan (42:12):
Okay.

Nicole (42:13):
Number two around dawn and dusk, a white-haired padre
has been seen around the churchgrounds, which would make sense,
yeah.

Logan (42:23):
I mean, you have priests walking around.

Nicole (42:24):
I mean that would make sense.
Yeah, I mean, we have priestswalking around.

Logan (42:25):
I mean that it would be odd.
It would make sense if therewas a paranormal thing going on
and that wasn't part of it.

Nicole (42:33):
And this last one, okay, and so we really focused on
this one a lot, yes, um.
So the story goes that in 1949,a schoolhouse so the convent
school that was next to themission caught fire in the
middle of the night and burnedto the ground, killing everyone
inside.

(42:53):
Witnesses said they saw a nunthat no one recognized inside
trying to get the trappedchildren to safety.
Safety, to this day, a nun witha limp is sometimes seen
leading a group of five they saypima children from where the
school used to stand towards thechurch right.
So I'm thinking, oh my god, youknow we're gonna get lots of

(43:16):
activity.
You know, when we speak aboutkids, and right right.
So those are the three things wekind of focused on.
Okay, this architect fell fromthe tower.
You know I'm thinking with thePadre, we probably won't get
much of that, but thisschoolhouse burned down.
All these children die, nunsdie.
Oh my goodness, we're going toget it.

Logan (43:35):
It's a big one, yeah.

Nicole (43:37):
So this is what we know going into it, right, okay, next
our investigation.
So we get there, we park in theparking lot, we kind of walk up
and now a lot of this is goingto be.
We're going to be speakingwhile we're showing you the
video, because we don't speak alot in some of the video and
then we'll kind of get to it.
Um, so this first one and we'regoing to play.

(44:01):
Well, you can kind of explainwhat we've got going on yeah, so
real quick.

Logan (44:08):
Itc okay, I want to cover this real quick.
Itc is is an app or a programor something that is that's not
necessarily tangible in thesense of holding.
Well, no, even some of itcstuff is.
Anyway, it is digital recording, it is digital um, it's, it's

(44:29):
all digital.
So a lot of people I want tosay a lot there is a fair amount
of people in the paranormalcommunity that don't necessarily
like itc and and it's not thatI fault that I get that um.
So what we typically like to dois we like to run analog with
ITC at the same time.
We've gotten some incredibleevidence doing that.
But in this particular sense wedidn't really do that for a

(44:52):
couple of reasons.

Nicole (44:53):
One was to maintain that respect and not be there
walking around loudlyinvestigating.

Logan (45:01):
Exactly.

Nicole (45:01):
Staying on the down low because there's people
worshiping, there's peoplecoming to do tours.
You don't want to do that, yeah, and be disrespectful.
So we are very limited in whatwe chose to do at this place,
right?

Logan (45:15):
and while we're doing this, I'm holding it up.
A phone that's doing the itcwhich we're using is ghost, okay
, and I think I'm even usinglike a GoPro.
We've got some other thingsgoing on, so we've got a lot of
different devices going, but forthe most part, in the beginning
you're going to be getting alot of the GhostTube part of it.

Nicole (45:35):
Now you know, a lot of people say that it can just give
you random stuff, and a lot ofthe time it does give you random
stuff.
It does you random stuff and alot of the time it does give you
random stuff.
It does, but it's the thingsthat hit that are interesting
and like we got that in at u ofa yes was very interesting.
So you know, when it comes tothe paranormal and investigating

(45:57):
the paranormal, not everybodyknows everything you can't I
mean, if there's new technologyout there to try to be able to
learn more and seek more truth,why not try it out?
You don't have to say, oh, thisis 100% what it is, because
this said this, but use it.
There's a lot of groups that,like you said that, will refuse

(46:17):
to use it.
There's a lot of groups thatreally embrace it.
Right, and I think we're in themiddle, we're like it could go
either way, but we don't not useit because, right.
So with this place, as soon asyou get out, I mean it's just,
it's majestic, standing in frontof you, you know there's a deep

(46:40):
history there and people thatcome to this place are spiritual
.

Logan (46:47):
So I think one of the first things that when we were
walking in there, um, we gotsome some interesting stuff that
came up on the itc yeah.

Nicole (46:57):
So we're in the parking lot.
We, you know, start walkingtowards the church and it's you
start getting this feeling fromthis place, and part of it is
you're feeling the history,you're feeling all the energy of
all the people that have come,because this is a place of
worship.
This is a place where peoplehave celebrated people's lives
that have passed on.
They're celebrating marriages,quinceaneras.

(47:20):
You know all these things overall these years right you can
feel all that energy Absolutely,especially when you walk inside
.

Logan (47:27):
But we're not to that point yet, so we're just walking
up on to this church, yeah, andthe other thing I want to add
real quick is that there'ssomething that happens with your
eyes too, because you remember,it's in the middle of the
desert, so there's this big,vast, open blue sky and then

(47:48):
there's this real contrastingwhite.

Nicole (47:49):
That's there and it kind of it really kind of plays with
your eyes a little bit yeah, itdoes, but I remember we were
walking in and to the left iswhere the, the school is now.
So I was remembering, you knowyeah I'm thinking, is that where
the original school was?
And I'm thinking, okay, youknow, but we're walking up and
he's got the ghost tube thing on.
And I'm just taking pictures atthe moment, so we're really not

(48:09):
paying attention to it.
We just kind of turned it on.
But we're going to play thislittle thing for you and then
we're going to talk about it.
Laughing Love the veteran here.
Laughing robbery yeah, so it wassupposed to match up there, and

(48:41):
the legend goes that so thatthat was very interesting to me,
because there were two wordsthat came across there and this
is what I'm going to talk about.
So first, I had forgotten toturn my camera on before trying
to take pictures.
I'm trying to take pictures andI say, well, I guess it'd help

(49:04):
if I turned that on and youlaughed.

Logan (49:07):
I did.

Nicole (49:08):
But like right before that it came across the word
laughing.

Logan (49:12):
It sure did.

Nicole (49:15):
And that was weird and at the time we didn't think
anything about it, like wethought it was just one of those
random words right.
But I caught that going backthere and I'm like laughing and
then you laugh at me saying thatand I'm like weird it was very
weird totally weird, it's thetiming of it, you know.

Logan (49:31):
Yeah, crazy crazy timing.

Nicole (49:33):
And then later on we get the word robbery right.
And what are we already talkingabout?
There were thieves that came inand stole the statue.
That's right, yeah so, andthat's just right outside the
church.

Logan (49:46):
So I was like Weren't even there five minutes.

Nicole (49:48):
Could it be random?
Absolutely, but I just foundthose two.
The laughing thing especiallywas very interesting.
Like they knew you were goingto laugh.

Logan (49:57):
Say what you want about GPS or something like that.
There's no way an app knew wewere about to laugh about it, or
?

Nicole (50:06):
maybe they were laughing at me being stupid.
I think they were laughing atyou Totally, Because most of the
time I forget to take the lenscap off and I'm like yeah.
But this time I forgot to turnthe camera on.

Logan (50:15):
That does hinder your ability to take pictures.

Nicole (50:17):
So I thought that was pretty funny.
Okay, so we continue on,basically, and we're gonna,
we're gonna play some of this.
Um, this is us walking, youknow, up to the church around
the side to go on the inside ofthe church right okay, in the um
corner there's that yeah, thewater right the holy, the water

(50:44):
Right the holy water, the holywater.
Now, I am not Catholic and youdidn't do it either.
And when?
We first started thisinvestigation.
We actually sat down on thosewooden seats there Right and
they are very loud and verynoisy the pews and we sat down
actually directly to the rightof that of where the water is

(51:08):
okay, um, right by, like behindthe doors, but we were trying to
sit in a quieter place to berespectful to be respectful, um,
and we actually turned on the.
You had the ghost tube running.
I had the actual recorder goingto actually start asking
questions, but we had to ask ina whisper.
Yes, and when you walk in thisplace it's like any other

(51:31):
respectful place People whisperto each other.
Right, you don't speak loud andmost people weren't talking at
all.

Logan (51:38):
And if they were.

Nicole (51:40):
They were at the other end of the church from us like
speaking by the altar.
And you can hear creaks in thewood and stuff.
But we, when we first sat down,you had the ghost tube on, but
I don't, didn't have my recorderon or it didn't record or
something happened.
I remember on that first goaround and I'm so angry about
that now because we you keptgetting something about water

(52:04):
and respect and something likethat and I'm like what does that
mean?
And then you figured out.
You never went over and did theHoly Trinity yeah with the
water, because I startedwatching people walk in that
were there to pray.
They went directly to there andstarted doing that, and we

(52:26):
didn't do that.
We walked around the church, wethis stuff.
So they were very upset yes,they were we didn't do that.

Logan (52:31):
So, needless to say, I mean he turned around and did
that.

Nicole (52:34):
So so the next clips that we have are us um, you know
, obviously it's not.
We were there for a good 45minutes, probably easily um with
the recorder.
But what's interesting is wewere asking all kinds of
questions and we were focusing45 minutes probably with the
recorder.
But what's interesting is wewere asking all kinds of
questions and we were focusingon the architect.
I was super focused on thechildren, about the children

(52:56):
burning and about the children,the fire and asking all these
questions.
So we're going to play thisclip of us speaking about it and
some of the um answers.
We got on the ghost tube, butalso we picked up something on
the recorder, sure did and it'svery faint, but we'll play that

(53:16):
right now and then we'll speakabout it.
Angel, I'm going to be one ofthe missionaries that came.
Melt, I'm going to be yourguest to hold this church.
Melt, melt, melt, melt.
Can you see Melvin Move?

Logan (53:53):
over.

Nicole (54:01):
Okay, so let's focus on the words on the ghost tube
first.
So we got the word angel whichI thought was very interesting.
It is very interesting.
Where are we we're?

Logan (54:13):
in the church Right.

Nicole (54:14):
We got angel, and then we also got the words meld, yes.
Now, at the time I'm thinkingmeld, okay, fire, right, right.
But later, when I looked at thehistory, when I found out about
how the building is literallymade of burned brick sure is,

(54:37):
that's what they did.
They burnt it so the definitionof meld, if don't know, is to
merge or to blend, to fuse.
Okay, now it could have meantthe burned brick to build the
building.
It could also mean the mergingof cultures that were there the
natives and the Spanish, wedon't know, but I thought that

(54:57):
was interesting that they usedthe word meld.

Logan (55:00):
Could have also meant the mine.

Nicole (55:02):
Yeah, but those were very interesting.
And then, of course, we got themove over and we were sitting
on the pew, which was reallyweird, and we did actually move
over.

Logan (55:12):
And we listened.

Nicole (55:14):
Now, as far as the things on the recorder, we can
play them again here, we'll playjust that part, okay.
Okay, so the first one.

(55:38):
It sounds almost like hummingor singing to me, yeah.

Logan (55:47):
And it's tough because you always wonder, because
everybody does whisper andnobody carries on that loudly.
But I can tell you that therewas nobody around.
No, one.

Nicole (55:52):
I mean, you're gonna hear voices when we're talking
other times and we were aware ofthose people and you know I
made notes on it.
These people were talking atthis time, or these people were
here, um, there was no onesinging.
There was no nuns in there.
There was no one singing.
There was no nuns in there.
There was no one humming.
I mean, if anything, they werewhispering to each other, but
this is a clear like oh yeah.

Logan (56:13):
It's melodic.

Nicole (56:14):
Yes, but that would make sense, for like the nuns would
probably Sure.

Logan (56:19):
Well, I mean anybody who's there for like a mass or
something you know there'sobviously their song.
That's done.

Nicole (56:27):
And then we got a second time yeah, Very close in
succession which I thought wasvery interesting For sure.
So those are really the onlythings that we really kind of
got on the recorder.

Logan (56:39):
Right.

Nicole (56:40):
Because we couldn't really use the recorder in many
other places on the propertybecause we're walking around.
There's wind, there's birdnoises.

Logan (56:48):
It was really windy that day.

Nicole (56:49):
Extremely windy.
There are people walking allover the place and talking.
So we learned our lesson from Uof A not to even worry about it
.
It was not going to work.
But in the church I thought,okay, it's going to be quiet
enough.
And I'm so glad we decided touse it, because we did pick up
those those sounds what they are.

Logan (57:08):
I don't know I mean they're definitely up for
interpretation.

Nicole (57:11):
It's just that we know, because we were there there was
nobody there but and it's justmy guess that it's probably a
residual sound, yeah, of, likeyou know yeah, I would think
worship probably, um, but youknow, at the time I was like
we're not getting any responsewhen I talk about the architect,
or like any response about thekids, and I was really hoping

(57:34):
for that.
Like no, we got some randomwords on the, but I'm like it
doesn't, it really didn't matchin the question, and that's what
I'm talking about is like, ifyou get like a direct response
using those things, then there'sa lot more validity, sure to it
.
But there was not, everythingwas just random and I'm like,
okay, yeah, you know we're notgetting anything, yeah it really

(57:55):
wasn't.

Logan (57:55):
There wasn't anything that that made sense, and at
that point, why even bring it up?

Nicole (58:01):
right right yeah so this next one, um, I think we're in
the back.
We had walked through and wehad walked behind um the back
part of the church where thefountain is, and we were kind of
walking around the only thingwe had there because we were
getting ready to go into themuseum part.

(58:21):
I think you just had your ghosttube thing on yeah, funny thing
about that.

Logan (58:26):
That water fountain though I just wanted to add,
first time I ever got stung by abee was there okay memories.

Nicole (58:34):
But I remember at the time because we had went back
there because there were hadbeen some pictures I had seen of
the school children, the nativeschool children, and I could
tell they were standing byarches.
And I was like, well you know,because I was trying to figure
out, I remember, where theoriginal school was, to try to
figure out where it had burntdown at right.
And so we were back there andthere's arches on both sides,

(58:56):
like all the way around thiscourtyard where the fountain is,
and so I'm trying to figure outwhere these students would have
been standing when this picturewere taken.
And I'm like, and I remembersaying something on the video
and it, what did it come across?
On the thing it says why mustyou know?
And I'm like, well, I just, youknow, want to know if the thing

(59:18):
burnt out or whatever, but whatwas interesting is that it came
across.
find me just like a little kidwould be playing hide and seek.

Logan (59:26):
Yeah, like find me, it was playful, mm-hmm.

Nicole (59:29):
But you know, no direct like answering, like about the
fire or anything.

Logan (59:34):
Mm-hmm.

Nicole (59:35):
But I was like I just remember thinking at the time
that's like a kid, I know, likefind me.

Logan (59:39):
And you do, you get concerned and it's kind of
heart-wrenching because at thetime the information that we had
was about these children dyingin this fiery you know school,
but that's back in the areawhere the the school was, and
where they you know the kids allhung out and so to get that
find me yeah, you know it kindof like tore my heart a bit yeah

(01:00:03):
.

Nicole (01:00:05):
Okay, so this next clip.
So we decide to walk, so we'reon.
If you're facing the church tothe left of it this is something
which we'll talk about here ina second that we didn't know at
the time.
But you kind of walk down thislittle pathway and there's, like
you know, desert plants.

Logan (01:00:22):
Yeah, it's a landscape, yeah On each side of it.

Nicole (01:00:25):
And then there's like this I don't even know what they
call it, like a mortuarium orsomething like that.

Logan (01:00:32):
Yeah.

Nicole (01:00:33):
At the end it's basically just like a little
building and it has an altar andit has candles on it.
And so we walked in there andyou had the.
I was taking pictures, but youhad the ghost tube going.

Logan (01:00:43):
Oh yeah, I did have the ghost tube going.

Nicole (01:00:48):
So we get in there and we're going to play this clip
right here.
Lower your voice.

Logan (01:00:53):
26 26 what.

Nicole (01:01:00):
Dig.

Logan (01:01:02):
Dig.
Dig.
Lower your voice.
26, dig.

Nicole (01:01:10):
Okay, so it's interesting that we get lower
your voice.
Yes, okay, because it'ssupposed to be a respectful
that's right.
Like prayer, you know.

Logan (01:01:21):
Yeah.

Nicole (01:01:21):
Place of prayer.
And then I still don't knowwhat 26 is supposed to mean.
I never could find any anythingabout that it would I think
well yeah yeah, and then we getdig and I'm like big what well,
folks, later I end up findingout as I'm digging in the

(01:01:43):
history and stuff.
If you remember the picturesfrom the earthquake, it talks
about the cemetery wall fallingdown.
Yeah that's that wall true.
So that pathway that you walk,with those two walls where all
the plants are used to be theoriginal cemetery, and I don't
think the bodies have been moon,I think they're all still there
and that's where they placethat, because that buildings in

(01:02:04):
that photo yes, that's beenthere since the because, that
building's in that photo.
Yes, that's been there sincethe 1800s.
Yes, so we were lower yourvoice as a place of respect.
26 does that mean there's 26people buried there?
I don't know.
There's no way to find thatright and then dig.

Logan (01:02:20):
That was weird that's very weird, I was like I don't
know what.

Nicole (01:02:23):
This is, just another little private place of prayer.
Had no idea that that's wherethe original cemetery was.

Logan (01:02:28):
Like I said, I've been going to this building since I'm
what?
Three, four years old and I'venever known that.

Nicole (01:02:37):
Yeah, I don't know, because it's not a very big
space.

Logan (01:02:40):
No, it's not.
And it would make sense ifthere's about 26 people, that
about 26 people could.
Oh yeah, 26 in there, but notmuch more than that.

Nicole (01:02:49):
No, and there's no heads , I mean it's, there's plants
there now yeah, it's, it is avery and there I remember, like
in in the video, when we'refirst walking in, I hear you go
oh, like that, like you weird.

Logan (01:03:03):
I got a very weird chill sensation.
I don't know.
It was like this charge ofenergy.

Nicole (01:03:09):
And see, you didn't say anything to me and I didn't even
know it till I watched thatback and saw you do that and I'm
like I wonder why he did that.

Logan (01:03:16):
I just, I immediately felt it.
That's so interesting, so thatwas pretty interesting.

Nicole (01:03:22):
Okay, so this next one.
So if you go like facing thechurch, you go to the right and
you walk that way.
That's where you'll walkthrough like this.
It's kind of like a patio areaand there's this little arch and
you walk through it and thegift shop is back there.

Logan (01:03:39):
Right, right Okay.

Nicole (01:03:41):
So we're going to play that right here and then we'll
talk about it.
That left ear's being reallybad just started when I walked

(01:04:08):
through that gate.

Logan (01:04:10):
Going forward where you here it's all necessary I don't

(01:04:36):
know if there's just what is thewhole thing.
It went down the jib.
I've climbed it as a kid.

Nicole (01:04:44):
Tradition good, tradition good, good, okay, so
it was so weird for me, I betand this does happen to me
occasionally not very often, butnow I'm starting to learn what
it might actually be I justthought it was health problems
understood, but it's always thesame ear and it's really weird.

(01:05:06):
So when I walked under thatarch, as soon as I crossed like
out from underneath it, my rightear starts ringing like really
loudly and I'm like what isgoing on?
yeah and then I don't rememberwho it was that I spoke to or I
don't know what was saying thatthat can be a sign of spirit

(01:05:29):
making contact and you can tellsomething's around.
And it was loud and it lastedfor a while, like I couldn't get
it to go away.

Logan (01:05:36):
Well, it's pressure.
The pressure keeps playing onthe eardrum, and that's very
lucky it was really, reallyweird, and it was just in that
right.

Nicole (01:05:45):
When I walked under that and when I turned to the right,
there was actually like alittle water fountain that had
like a jesus with the kidspainting there, because I
remember my main like thing waslike I want to connect with the
poor kids that burned alive here.
You know, like that was my mainthing and it didn't happen.
Um, now, as far as gettinganything, I thought it was
interesting that you weretelling me about, because I was

(01:06:08):
like what's that hill over there?
Well, we did find out, it's ayou can walk.
If you walk up the trail andwalk around to the back, there's
like a like a place of prayer.
That's like kind of in nature,it's kind of in the hill.
Um, but I was asking you aboutit and you're talking about.
Oh yeah, my dad would take meup there.

Logan (01:06:26):
Absolutely hated it when I was a kid, Because you would
always go there and it was it'sArizona, it's hot, we would
always go up there and I'm likedad no we're going yeah.

Nicole (01:06:39):
I'm like all right, but then we get the two words
tradition, good, yes, that see.
I think that applies.
I think so too.
I thought that was reallyreally cool, yeah, yeah.

Logan (01:06:51):
It was a very interesting .
It was interesting for mebecause I mean, honestly, that
whole time I'm there, I mean Igot my dad in one ear, my
grandmother in the other.
You know it's, you know they'veboth since passed, passed and
it's just.
There's so much history of mineattached there.

Nicole (01:07:10):
So and I just kind of want to mention this and I don't
know if I've got I've got thepicture somewhere and I can't I
can't quote it for sure, butwe'll put it up here.
But as right as we were gettingready to walk into the gift
shop, I took a picture of it.
There's like a little um tilething that's kind of embedded in
the wall and it says it's theum verse from the bible.

(01:07:30):
Talking about you might beentertaining angels unawares and
I thought that was sointeresting for what we were
doing and where we were, and itwas just like bam and my ears
had just been ringing and thathad just come talking about.
I was like wow.

Logan (01:07:46):
That was kind of like timing, perfect timing.

Nicole (01:07:48):
Yeah, okay.
So here's kind of a veryinteresting one.

Logan (01:07:56):
Yeah, this is the record scratch moment.

Nicole (01:07:58):
Mm-hmm, this is the one that I said.
That kind of parallels our U ofA investigation, because I was
a little blown away by this.
Um, I'd say so and this, Ibelieve, is we're just walking
around somewhere, I don'tremember where it was.

Logan (01:08:13):
They're just out in front yeah, and nothing significant
happened.

Nicole (01:08:17):
You had that on while we were walking around the whole
time and most of the time we'renot even paying attention to any
of it because we were intransit, I think from one place
to the other um and honestly Ihad left it kind of running for
this very reason and we mightactually have been out in front
of the towersI think I remember we you know
on each side, because I rememberI took a million pictures of

(01:08:39):
the tower, you know, hoping thatsomething would show up and
hoping that you know you might,and I remember you.
Do you get any feeling fromthat?
And you're like, not really.

Logan (01:08:47):
No, I really didn't.

Nicole (01:08:48):
Yeah, from up there, and I'm like, okay, and I think
this was in that transition,right, so we're going to play
this here and then we're goingto talk about it.
Okay, why am I here?
Joan, joan, okay, so the twothings we got that I'm going to

(01:09:20):
talk about, why am I here?
And in quick succession, rightafter that, we get the name joan
and I'm like that's a weirdname to get, okay, and when I
think of anything related toreligion with joan is joan of
arc.
Right, sure, it's the onlything I can think of.
I mean makes sense, but I'mlike this is not gonna apply to

(01:09:42):
this, it makes no sense.
I said, and'm thinking why arewe not getting, like Spanish
names, latin names, native names, which and I don't know if
people know this, but especiallyin the Southwest, a lot of
natives have Latin, spanishnames Because they adopted what
was around them.

Logan (01:10:02):
Right.

Nicole (01:10:03):
Yeah, okay, so I'm expecting to get names like that
.
If we're going to get a name,it would be, and I'm like we get
the most white woman name.
Like it makes no sense to me.
I'm like this is and at thispoint, I'm like this is a random
right Right right.
But out of all the little things, because I went through every
word that we got and I'm like,okay, it's a name.

(01:10:26):
I look at stuff that sticks out.
So I'm like I remember I went aJoan associated with San Javier
Mission.
Okay, now there was a Joan thatwrote an article about it.

Logan (01:10:41):
Right.

Nicole (01:10:41):
Okay, I'm like that can't be anything.

Logan (01:10:43):
No, that doesn't make sense.

Nicole (01:10:46):
But then ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, this big,
massive thing like just jumpsout of the screen at me.

Logan (01:10:52):
Yeah, it is, and.

Nicole (01:10:53):
I'm like holy cow.

Logan (01:10:55):
Yeah, it's definitely.
It is where things take a bigturn.

Nicole (01:11:01):
Mm-hmm.
So on the morning of Aprilil27th of 1986, there's a 25 year
old woman named joan mariearcher who went on a bike ride,
like she always did, along westsan javier road.
She passed by the mission.
Okay, this is the road thatpasses right by the mission.

(01:11:24):
Her boyfriend had went to herhouse the next morning to care
for some puppies that she hadand found she had never returned
and her bicycle and helmet weremissing, right.
So she became a missing personand we're gonna.
I I verified this.
I got the map of where the roadwhere the mission is, where the

(01:11:44):
road is where this other roadis, articles about her missing
in the tucson papers.
This is provable information.
Okay now, her body was found onjuly 22nd of 1986 in the area
of west san javier road andsouth mission road, a little
over a half of a mile from themission.

(01:12:05):
She had been stabbed in theback and neck and sexually
assaulted.
Her death was linked to anotherattempted abduction and murder
of two women on Mount Lemmon,which is the mountain you can go
up in.
Tucson in July by an Air ForceSergeant, stephen Skaggs.
The wounds on Joan's body matchthe wounds on one of the women

(01:12:27):
he raped and attempted to kill.
I've got her picture up hereand then finding her funeral and
obviously her funeral wasn't atSan Javier she's not buried at
San Javier Right, but she waskilled right down the road from
San Javier.

Logan (01:12:44):
Yeah.

Nicole (01:12:45):
And we don't know how this works in the afterlife, but
if you're missing or you'vedied and there's other souls
close, wouldn't you go to that?

Logan (01:12:55):
That's what I would think you would do.
I mean, it would almost looklike a beacon.

Nicole (01:12:59):
And she's familiar with it.
Sure, but we get the two things.
Why am I here, joanan?
Joan and we were outside.
We weren't inside the churchwhen we were walking around, we
were outside we sure were on theproperty literally facing son
of your road I honestly couldn'tbelieve it because it reminds
me so much of what happened.

(01:13:20):
Because, just like with u of a,he wasn't.
He was killed.
You know a ways away from wherewe were, but had wandered.

Logan (01:13:30):
I mean we know they can travel.
I mean we know these things?

Nicole (01:13:33):
well, we don't know, no we assume we assume these things
yeah um, I just couldn'tbelieve it.
I'm like of all, and we've gother, you know her headstone her
headstone and all these things,and she was Catholic, yeah.

Logan (01:13:47):
So that's interesting and she had definitely gone there.

Nicole (01:13:48):
She had, yeah, she had to have.
And she was raised in Tucson.

Logan (01:13:52):
Well, she's got rosary bleeds on her headstone, so she
was obviously a devout Catholic.

Nicole (01:13:59):
I just it floored me, it honestly floored me yeah.

Logan (01:14:04):
It is one of those where you can research till you're
blue in the face and thensometimes, every once in a while
, you get oh, by the way,research this.

Nicole (01:14:17):
Right, I'm like.
What other explanation is therefor that?

Logan (01:14:20):
Yeah, I don't know.
It's way too for the proponentsthat don't like ITC you can say
GPS, but that's awfully Well.

Nicole (01:14:30):
they say GPS can then go to Google and search things
that happen in the area and thengive you like yeah, no, I'm
sorry, I think that's too.

Logan (01:14:40):
It's wild it's just why.
Why?

Nicole (01:14:42):
am I here?
Yeah, joan, and that, andthat's why I like those.
Those well, because they happenin succession and I'm like some
.
There's something about this,right, you know that.
And it's not.

Logan (01:14:54):
It's not a spanish name no sense of all that history
yeah, and you, some of the, someof the Mexicans and natives
will laugh when I say this,because it's in every family you
always have like a Juan Ignacioand you got all these really
interesting names and you alwayshave like a Brandon for some
reason thrown there and it'salways really weird.
But no, she was.
She was not of Mexican ornative descent.

Nicole (01:15:15):
No, no, she was actually , I think, blonde-headed, and
small like more kind of lookslike me, but yeah it just crazy,
crazy stuff.
Okay, so that was basically our.
You know, we couldn't goin-depth investigation because

(01:15:36):
this is what do we really wantto?

Logan (01:15:39):
No, I mean this.

Nicole (01:15:39):
This is we wanted to be as respectful as possible right
to the people involved.
So, um, let's get on to ourthoughts and evidence that you
know, you presented this to youand what we think sounds good,
but there is more to come thatwe discovered very much.
Okay, so we talked about thearchitect right falling from the

(01:16:00):
tower.
We got no responses.
When we talked about him, wesaid his name, we asked
questions about if he was stillthere.
All this stuff, right, and I'mlike.
I don't think it happened, butlet me tell you, when you look
this up, this is the story thathas happened.

Logan (01:16:17):
Yeah, it is the story.

Nicole (01:16:18):
I mean it is literally everywhere.
I mean story that has happened,yeah, it is.
I mean it's literallyeverywhere.

Logan (01:16:22):
I mean you've even got which I guess I shouldn't say it
, we'll just say a veryreputable yes place in the area
saying this is what happened.

Nicole (01:16:32):
And this is not the only thing they said and I'm like do
your research, don't put thatout there.
Okay, so there was a a.
I guess they call him father now, but like a padre, like a
priest, um, and his name wasfather mccarty.
Okay, that did some research onthis because he wanted to find

(01:16:54):
out for sure.
Okay, and he's like, okay, I'mgonna look at the descendants of
this family and see, you know,and try to contact them and see
if there was ever a couple ofbrothers that went and one died
falling off a tower, and helooked into it, okay, so he
finds, um, the family, thedescendants of these, and he

(01:17:16):
said that the two brothers, whowere architects and builders,
came to mexico in the lastquarter of the 18th century.
He said in an interview, um,they were sent to work on
missions in california.
Then the family said they cameto tucson to work on the mission
.
Yeah, okay, but from here theymoved.

(01:17:37):
They moved to caborkaca andhelped build our twin mission
there.
One brother returned to MexicoCity and the other remained in
Caborca.
There is no mention in thefamily history of either of the
brothers falling from themission tower.
And there's also a Universityof Arizona field historian who

(01:17:59):
has spent years studying thischurch.
That and his name was DrBernard Fontana.
He says there's a very easyexplanation for this unfinished
tower the builders simply ranout of money.

Logan (01:18:14):
I mean it's.

Nicole (01:18:15):
Occam's razor Right, which you always like to bring
up 100%.

Logan (01:18:18):
Yeah.

Nicole (01:18:20):
So when I was researching, like the spanish
crown, okay, they would paymissionaries regardless of
whatever condition of the churchwas, it made no difference.
So them holding out to not haveto pay taxes.
It's not the us government,it's, it's the crown.
So they've given them theirallotted money to do whatever

(01:18:42):
they need to do with it, butthen once that money, they're
not getting more that's just howit is so they ran out of money
before they got to that part,and that's just essentially what
happened.
Yep, so nobody fell from thetower, nobody crashed, nobody
turned into a snake and wentunderneath it I shouldn't laugh.
I mean, that is a belief, Iknow, but I'm just saying like

(01:19:05):
none of that stuff happened soit was easily found, is all I'm
gonna say.
I need to be found I rememberwhen you found it there were
some swear words oh, it was,like you know, because we
focused so much on that and itwas a lot of energy, yeah yeah,
okay.
So the second claim right ispeople saying they see this

(01:19:28):
white-haired padre okay now,obviously, when I heard that and
I know you thought the samething this is a residual thing,
okay it sounds residual becausethere's no interaction there.
But I was like, why is it duskand dawn?
But I found out that at duskand dawn the priest would go and
light the candles in the churchfor prayer, because that's when

(01:19:49):
people would come to the churchand pray.
Okay, especially back in the1800s and those time periods so
residual.
He's lighting the candles.

Logan (01:19:58):
It checks out Absolutely.

Nicole (01:20:00):
That 100% believable, that they see that.
Okay.
Now this next one is my soapboxI'm very irritated at, I'm just
going to say very irritated.
Another allotment of cuss wordsand this is the place that I

(01:20:21):
was already speaking about.
That is the utmost important.
Should not be putting this outthere, because they do
historical research.

Logan (01:20:30):
Yes, they do.

Nicole (01:20:31):
And they're.
I don't know where they gotthis from, however.
So the third claim, that is,that there's people are seeing a
nun lead children from the oldschoolhouse to the church.
Now that I don't think is false, necessarily because that

(01:20:59):
happened.
You know that.
That, I think, is residual aswell I think that it's probably
just something that's there andit's couldn't care less if
you're there.
It just does what it does and Ibelieve that people have
probably seen that.
Sure, okay, however, guys, thepause is here, there is

(01:21:20):
literally no evidence that therewas ever a fire that destroyed
a schoolhouse and killed a bunchof kids yep, and I even asked.

Logan (01:21:31):
I went up to one of the workers there and she was an
older lady, an older and Ifigured this event had
supposedly happened.

Nicole (01:21:39):
A native lady Right that works and lives on the
reservation.

Logan (01:21:43):
Even if she wasn't there at the time, by just the math of
her age and where she was, shewould have known about it.
She would have been alive yeah.

Nicole (01:21:53):
She'd probably been a kid.

Logan (01:21:54):
Right.

Nicole (01:21:55):
Going to the school.

Logan (01:21:56):
That would be my assumption as well.

Nicole (01:21:58):
Yes, and she kind of looked at me like we asked yeah,
I said very quietly andrespectfully have you ever heard
of a fire that's happened hereat the mission?
That I didn't say about deathsof kids, I just said that, right
, could have burned down theschoolhouse.
And she looked at me like shelooked at me like she's heard it

(01:22:22):
before and she thinks it'sridiculous and she's like no,
there's never been a fire likethat here, not while the last
few generations have been alive,and certainly not she goes.
All my kids have gone to thatschool.
There's never been a fire.
There was never a fire when Iwas a kid and this is said to
have happened in 1949.
Right, and this lady was older.

Logan (01:22:43):
Yeah, okay, so she would at least been a kid yeah, I mean
, when she said that, I justkind of was like, yeah, I was
like, oh, great okay so when wegot home and I did the research,
I dug deep, deep, because thisis something you don't spread
around, no, I mean something yes, well, it's children, I'm sorry

(01:23:06):
, I don't have animals andchildren, you don't mess with me

Nicole (01:23:10):
that's right, children.
I'm gonna get to the bottom ofit because you know I was
heart-wrenching to thinksomething like that could have
happened, sure, you know.
So here's what I found now.
Was there a tragedy?
Yes, but it is not a fire.
So I looked up newspaperarticles in tucson and I'm

(01:23:32):
thinking, okay, they reported,they could report on the
earthquake in 1800.
They're going to report on afire.
Sure, nothing, no, fire,nothing.
I mean I looked in every kindof used, every word I could use
that could possibly nothing,yeah, nothing.
And then I started thinking,well, are they covering it up?
Because a bunch of kids, I'mlike, because they've covered it

(01:23:52):
up, and I'm thinking, no, thatwould have, there's no way it
would have gotten out, right?
So this is what I did find.
So there was a fire on friday,may 13th of 1949 at the tucson
dog track.
Yeah, it was a daytime fire thatdestroyed the track and a house
trailer belonging to thecaretaker.

(01:24:15):
Yes, okay, so I have thenewspaper article right there.
Fire is emblazoned on thescreen for you to see.

Logan (01:24:24):
And a picture of something emblazoned.
The fire yeah.

Nicole (01:24:26):
Yeah, so this is what's being reported in 1949.
Okay, next one, another fire,another fire.
So the Metronome Ballroom,which was a nighttime fire, they
completely destroyed thebuilding on Saturday, september
17th 1949.
And I've got the paper, thedate, what page it was on

(01:24:48):
pictures of it.
Right there there's anotherfire.
Yep, didn't take that much Okayso they were reporting on fires
, it's not like they werereporting on fires, yeah.
Here's the next one.
Okay, this didn't happen in1949.
This actually happened inoctober of october 25th 1948
it's an entire year school was aschool drachman elementary

(01:25:12):
school fire in tucson.
It was a night fire, yes, of aschool, like they were saying.
There is no one injured becauseit's nighttime.
It's never really made sense tome, but it did.
It destroyed the school.
You got it right there foreverybody to see, okay, and it's

(01:25:35):
got the picture, everything.
It's got how much it cost, yeahit's so how much it cost?

Logan (01:25:41):
Yeah, it's so there is a school fire.

Nicole (01:25:43):
None of this happened.
No kids were hurt, nobody washurt.
But it did destroy a school,Sure, Because you know, some of
these rumors start somewhere.
So I'm like, could it be itstarted with, oh, this
elementary school in Tucsonburned at night?
Let's turn this into oh, thishappened at the mission.

Logan (01:26:00):
Yes, burned at night.

Nicole (01:26:00):
Let's turn this into oh, this happened at the mission.
Sensationalism yes.
Oh, now we're going to kill abunch of kids in it and make it
really dramatic right, yeah.
This should not be done, okay,because it's messed up.

Logan (01:26:12):
Yeah, it is messed up.

Nicole (01:26:13):
Nothing else.
Yeah, opposed to a fire, butI'll tell you what I did find.
So I said, okay, there a fire,but I'll tell you what I did
find.
So I said, okay, there's nofires at the mission, so let's
just look up deaths, maybe it'llcome.

Logan (01:26:28):
only smiling guys because she was pissed and the whole
time she's researching this mfand this and son of a bitch and
this and that didn't say, well,I'm, I'm making it, but she was
really pissed about this wholething.
I understand Nicole does theresearch.
She's the brains behind theoperation and when we went
through all this we spent somuch time on that it took me.

Nicole (01:26:52):
Well, let's see, we were in there of October of last
year and we're just now doingthe episode because-.
And it's April.
I really dug because I'm likeyou shouldn't.
You shouldn't tell false things, you shouldn't just go on
hearsay.
You need to actually doresearch and tell the truth.
I mean, these are people'slives, right?
Yeah, this is historicallyimportant very important.

(01:27:15):
I mean this is and you shouldn'tmisrepresent it.
And and you know, becausepeople on the internet they
Google, right, and this is thefirst things that pop up yeah,
that's a terrible story.
A bunch of little native kidsdying in a convent school.
I mean, that's messed up.

Logan (01:27:31):
It is, and it's heartbreaking.

Nicole (01:27:33):
But thankfully it didn't happen.
So I looked up deaths.
I'm like, okay, around themission, Like what could be
perpetuating some of thesethings, okay?
So according to the TucsonCitizen Edition of Tuesday,
October 23rd of 1945, there weresix natives who were killed

(01:27:53):
nine miles from San Javier whentheir car hit a slow-moving
locomotive pulling six ore carson the San Javier Mine Spur, and
they are buried at the MissionCemetery.

Logan (01:28:04):
Okay.

Nicole (01:28:04):
The new cemetery, not where we were walking Right,
which we don't have.
We couldn't and I wouldn't havedone that anyway, because
that's yeah.

Logan (01:28:12):
And if you ever go there, you're not allowed there.

Nicole (01:28:14):
No, it's only for people at the reservation, but they
are buried there.
But we didn't get any kind ofinteraction.
The names of the people I'm notgoing to mention because we
didn't get anything and likethat's what I thought.
This is the type of thing Ithought we might get like if
they're trying to interact, butI've got the newspaper article
here, um, and of course theycall them papa.

(01:28:36):
Go right in the newspaper.
So that was one and this one.
Actually, I ran across and Ididn't know this.
It was pretty surprising and Iknow when I told you you were
surprised by it too.

Logan (01:28:49):
I didn't, I'd never put that together, yeah.

Nicole (01:28:51):
So, according to the Arizona Daily Star edition of
June 11th of 1939, there was aMiss.
Wildfire Lockett was her actualname, also known as Agnes Nacho
who was a miss?
Wildfire locket was her actualname, also known as agnes nacho,
who was a native americanlakota actress.
So when I say lakota, you'regonna know it as well.
Sue, sue, people call it.

(01:29:12):
Yeah, it's actually lakota,okay, um, and she was the
granddaughter of Sitting Bull.

Logan (01:29:17):
Yeah.

Nicole (01:29:18):
Yeah, but she had grown up in Tucson, okay.
Didn't know that either, andyeah, she became an actress but
she contracted tuberculosis withher, you know.
But she was.
I guess there was a no, when Isay sanatorium, it's not a
mental asylum.
It's a hospital.
They meant hospital, so SanJavier had a hospital, and they

(01:29:42):
still have it, I think.
I think it's a hospital.
They meant hospital, so sanjavier had a hospital.

Logan (01:29:44):
um, and they still have it.
I think.
I think it's still there.
I don't know if it's anoperation, I think, yeah, it's
still there, but she's actuallyburied at the mission cemetery
as well.
Yeah, I know that now.

Nicole (01:29:53):
Didn't know that then though but the granddaughter of
sitting bull, it's wild, it'sinteresting.
Yeah, so I've got a bunch of um.
You know there's some articlestalking about her roles and
she's been in some of thosereally old Westerns and stuff.

Logan (01:30:05):
I didn't know anything about it.

Nicole (01:30:07):
I mean, well, I never watched any of those, but some
of the original ones, but she'sa very beautiful lady, she's
very beautiful.
So I've got some of those.
I found some pictures of herand stuff like that we'll put up
.
Now here's the thing I'mtalking about.
So those are the main.
I mean there's been multiplepeople buried.
I mean multiple funerals here.

(01:30:28):
I mean this is over a period ofhistory.

Logan (01:30:30):
Yeah, very long.

Nicole (01:30:31):
There's so many possibilities.
Now we did not necessarily thatI'm aware of any interaction
from what I'm about to talkabout, but I wanted to talk
about it because, for one, I'mtrying to correct some
misinformation and I need toshed light on this because I

(01:30:53):
think it's very important to thereservation and the community
that people know that thishappened.

Logan (01:30:59):
I agree.

Nicole (01:30:59):
reservation in the community, that people know that
this happened and that whenthey go there to take a moment
of silence because you're goingto be standing right where it
happened and we didn't know thatat the time and nobody talks
about well, I knew of it.
I didn't know it was right therewhere it happened right and you
don't think about what I'mabout to talk about when you're
in arizona, and I'll you do herebut not there.

(01:31:19):
So during the afternoon ofaugust 27th of 1964, a
terrifying tornado swept throughthe desert, descending on the
mission and the families wholive near it.
The tornado had at least 50mile per hour winds and it cut a
three and one quarter mile paththrough tucson.

(01:31:43):
The tornado uprooted saguarocactus and debarked mesquite
trees along its path so peopledon't think about being in a
tornado when you're in arizonano, and they don't happen very
much and growing up.

Logan (01:31:57):
It's actually something that we've most kids and most
people growing up in tucson knowabout it, because it's really
the only time that's everhappened right.

Nicole (01:32:06):
But I mean, and we've actually got a newspaper and
somebody took a picture of it intucson, so we're gonna put that
up here.
Um, but this was before it gotto the mission and and it's one
of those, if you're justlistening, it's one of those
like very thin it's a roper,yeah rope tornadoes, but very, I

(01:32:26):
mean like it's huge massiveyeah, um, I don't know, at least
probably an f2, f3, I wouldthink yeah, probably good solid
f2 yeah yeah, um, but we've gotthat up here on the video
podcast.
You can look at it Now.
The mission itself, the church,when I say that luckily came

(01:32:48):
away unscathed.

Logan (01:32:49):
Yeah.

Nicole (01:32:50):
But it did hit the convent okay, that was built
next to it, and it ripped awaythe second floor of the convent
okay, away the second floor ofthe convent.
Okay.
Now there was a nun there,sister martha, that described
the twister as, quote, veryblack from the top down.
It continued toward the missionschool and it blew out 20

(01:33:12):
windows and whipped away theshutters.
There was a nun and asix-year-old girl, um, hunkered
down inside the school butsurvived without injuries.
So see, even the tornado didn't, so nothing happened.
I mean, besides that littlecosmetic stuff, nobody died in
that part in the actual yeah andwe've, you know, we've got,

(01:33:32):
I've got so many newspaper.
I mean, and that's what I'msaying, if something massive
like that fire would havehappened, it would have been in
the newspaper oh, it'd been.

Logan (01:33:39):
Well, this is in the newspaper there's.

Nicole (01:33:41):
I mean pages and pages and pages and pages and pictures
.
So we're going to put all theseup as we're speaking, as I'm
speaking.
So the now, when you go theretoday and I had to kind of
figure out where this was inconjunction so if you pull in
from the Mission Road, sanJavier, mission Road into San

(01:34:05):
Javier, you're going to seeshops at the very back and then
there's going to be a lot ofground and then on the left,
there is a parking lot that youcan park in.
Is a parking lot, yes, um, thatyou can park in?

(01:34:25):
And this, where the parking lotis, essentially is where, kind,
of the start of the adobehouses of the natives that lived
at the mission right this time,lived, okay, and this is the
area that I'm speaking about.
Okay, so the natives living 200yards southwest of the mission,
in what today is the parkinglot and shops, took the most
impact and devastation from thetornado.

(01:34:47):
It damaged seven homes, threeof which were completely
destroyed.
The homes are made of adobe andpartial plaster.
They were built for intenseheat, but not a tornado.
No, because they don't buildfor tornado, sure, the way we do
.
Now, out of 500 natives thathad lit, that lived around the

(01:35:07):
mission, 40 of them had becomehomeless when it was done,
ripping through the reservation.
Eight people were injured andtwo members of the norris family
had been killed.
Yeah, it was the state ofarizona's first.
Yeah, hmm, this is very hardfor me to talk about, so I may
get a little emotional here, but, like I said, we're putting

(01:35:43):
these, putting these.
You know, the headlines in thenewspaper and just the pictures
themselves are extremely, um,traumatic.
Just to kind of look at, yeah,they are um, but in, in some of
these and I'll describe some ofthem to the listeners um, you
can kind of see them, themission in the background,
standing tall and proud, but infront of it all you see is

(01:36:05):
rubble and partially you knowpartial walls on some of these
buildings.
Yeah, destroyed.
Mm-hmm Anyway.
So that's a lot of what we'regoing to be showing and I mean,
if you you want, go to the videopodcast and you can, if you
want, just go to the end andlook at all these.

(01:36:25):
But right, there were 13members of the norris family
living in the adobe house whenthe tornado struck and I read
the account of what happened.
It's just, it's hard, hard tolisten to and I'm not going to
recount it now, but, um, thepaternal grandparents lived with

(01:36:46):
their son, manuel norris, hiswife lucy norris, and their nine
children that's a lot ofmembers in one of those houses.
After the tornado struck, themajority of the family had been
buried under debris.
After the tornado struck, themajority of the family had been
buried under debris.
Manuel, the father, injured hiship but continued to dig for

(01:37:07):
his family.
200 members of the communityhelped clear debris to help find
the rest of the members of thefamily buried.
Lucy, his wife, and Marcian,his 10-month-old son, were
pronounced dead on arrival atthe San Javier Indian Hospital.

Logan (01:37:28):
And the eight other children in the family were
admitted to Tucson hospitals.

Nicole (01:37:29):
So these newspaper article pictures show his house,
it shows the debris, it showsthe dad digging with other
people digging through therubble.
They've got a picture trying torevive the son and the wife and
putting his little body on astretcher.
It's hard to look at.

Logan (01:37:50):
I'm actually looking at it right now.

Nicole (01:37:54):
And other members of the community trying to hold the
father up grieving.
And we've got at the end.
They rebuilt the house for him,um, anyway, but they, you know,
the members that were tornapart lived in the church, you
know, and the members of thecommunity and tucson brought,
you know, stuff for the family,so they did take care of them at

(01:38:16):
the time when this happened.
But that's the tragedy thathappened.
I mean, there's probably stuffway back we don't know about,
but sure you know.
Closer to time there was no firethat killed a bunch of kids in
the school, but two people diedyeah, they did by this tornado,

(01:38:37):
and I think that is the storythat needs to come to light, and
not this fake story that'sbeing spread all over the
Internet.

Logan (01:38:45):
And.

Nicole (01:38:46):
I mean who?
Why do that?
I don't know.

Logan (01:38:50):
Well, you know, when it comes right down to it.
You know we went thereinvestigating the paranormal,
but we also went there to seethe history, to see the building
, to get to know what itactually like.
I said, I've been to thisbuilding so many times in my
life that I just always thoughtit'd always be there in my life

(01:39:11):
and I took it for granted.
Um, but it is.
It is literally a beacon in themiddle of the desert.
It is white, it's beautiful andthere is such a storied history
.
Is it paranormal, sure?
I mean, if you are at abuilding and you pray and

(01:39:32):
there's so much energy builtinto that wall or those walls, I
should say there's always goingto be some measurable amount of
energy in that building.
You can feel it.

Nicole (01:39:42):
Like I said, you can feel it in the parking lot when
you get there.
I mean, it's just emanating.
If you could, you know, seeenergy.
If you had like a, if we could,if we could see that.

Logan (01:39:55):
If we had the PK meter, that did the.

Nicole (01:39:58):
Yeah, I mean, you know, and there are some mediums that
can actually see auras and stufflike that, like this church has
got to have an aura.
I mean, all that time,thousands of people that have
come and and people used to, youknow, migrate across the the
states and across mexico to cometo this church yeah, they sure

(01:40:18):
would to worship so actually, Ithink a lot of them still do.
Yeah, I mean, it's almost likefor Christians going to Israel.
It's that same thing.
Where it's very special to them, it's very special to the
natives on this reservation.

Logan (01:40:36):
And it's very special to Tucson.

Nicole (01:40:37):
Yeah, I mean it's a beautiful place If, for anything
, you go to visit just for thehistorical I mean it's beautiful
to just walk through and themuseum at the back is really
cool, which I didn't even knowexisted for a long time.
Yeah, I've always known yeah,but they've got you know old
statues and they kind of tellyou the history of the native

(01:40:58):
peoples that were there.
And we, we had thrown some ofthose up during the um, the
podcast, right um, but it's justreally cool to feel that and to
see the area.
Please be respectful though Imean, if you know you go to do

(01:41:18):
any kind of investigation, don'tgo in there and provoke and
disrupt people and do thingslike that.
But I know I'll definitely havea different feeling the next
time I go, now that I know thatthis happened.

Logan (01:41:36):
This is just devastating yeah guys, If you get a chance
to go to Tucson, go Go to thisplace.
It is amazing.
In fact, I don't think you.
I don't know many people thatgo to Tucson that don't go to
this.

Nicole (01:41:50):
Well, it's, you know, when you go the TripAdvisor
thing, it's one of the topthings to go visit because it is
it's very cool.
But also, you know, know,they've got, and I don't we
didn't go back there this timebecause we I don't even know if
those shops are still open atthe very back of the oh yeah,
they're still there, but they'vegot native made, you know,
jewelry and all that stuff, andthat's actually where we talked

(01:42:12):
to the guy, that about the snakeyeah um, but even more so on
the side.
what do they call those things,the wooden constructed
table-like things that they haveto the side?

Logan (01:42:27):
I don't know what they're called, like the wiki-up type
thing.
Yeah, I don't know that there'sa particular name for them or
not.

Nicole (01:42:31):
Well, they have them all set up and the natives come and
they sell things.
Well, they were selling frybread, so good.
And I was like we're gettingfry bread.
If you've never had fry bread,you, it's so amazing.
And I think we got the frybread with the honey on it yeah
oh it was so good and we took apicture, so we're gonna put that
up right here for you to see,and I, we barely made it back to

(01:42:54):
your mom's house before we atethat because it was so good it
was warm and but yeah, insteadof going to places like that and
going to you know these, wehave indian made things.
don't go to those places, right,you need to go the reservations
to straight to the people,because I'm going to tell you a

(01:43:15):
little known secret here.
Those people that do that yeah,they buy it from the natives
but they don't give them anymoney for it and then they
charge you probably you know sixtimes what they actually paid
the native person that made itand they make all the money off
of it.

Logan (01:43:31):
Yeah, the markup is all on their side.
Yeah, the natives don't get themoney from that.

Nicole (01:43:34):
So it's something that we always make sure and do that
we go straight to the source.
We always make sure and do that.
We go straight to the source.
We give them the money, yep,and they're always so grateful
and they're always so kind, andthat's what we do on every trip.
That's what we did up at.
Canyon, de Shelley, mm-hmmCanyon de Shelley and they are
so grateful for it.
I mean, it's art.
It's art.
Artisan made things and they'reFrog bread's the best.

Logan (01:43:57):
Yeah, I am tasting it right now.
Well, guys, thank you so much.
We had a great time, Obviouslyvery special place for us.
You know we'll obviouslycontinue to go there All my
family's there.
But if you get a chance to go,go.
And if you're going toinvestigate, be respectful, Know
that that is still a veryactive place of worship.

(01:44:18):
It is.
It's a historical place.
Make sure you do place ofworship.
It's a historical place.
Make sure you do the rightthing.
That's all you need to do.
And yeah, I mean, what a greatepisode and what a great amount
of history.
Thank you for digging in.
That was a lot.

Nicole (01:44:35):
It was a lot.
It took me forever, forever.
But once I found out that thatwas not valid, I was like
something it's got to be no yes,some something happened here,
but I gotta figure out whathappened and I just I still

(01:44:55):
don't understand why yeah that'sbeing reported that way, like
where are they getting theirinformation?

Logan (01:45:02):
I think somebody got some bad history and it's just kept
perpetuating through the years Ican't name the place, but if
you're what you are, you don'tdo that.

Nicole (01:45:10):
No, you don't well, guys .

Logan (01:45:13):
Thank you so much.
We had a great time and, uh, welook forward to seeing you guys
next week I'll see you nextweek.

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Spirits of the White Dove of the Desert: Paranormal Investigation of San Xavier Mission

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