July 14, 2025 • 18 mins
For decades, the path to healing from domestic violence trauma was long, arduous, and often incomplete. Laura Frombach's powerful journey demonstrates why that happens and how dramatically the path to healing has changed.
Growing up with two alcoholic parents in a violent household, Laura witnessed her mother's startling transformation from a kind person to someone cruel and sadistic. Only decades later did Laura connect this personality shift to likely traumatic brain injury caused by her father's repeated abuse. This revelation came amid Laura's own struggles with alcoholism and recovery, including a devastating relapse after 16 years of sobriety and 20 years of talk therapy.
The game-changer? Discovering that trauma lives not just in our thoughts but in our bodies. "I found out that trauma doesn't just live in your mind, it lives in your nervous system. It buries itself in your muscles, your gut and even your breath," Laura explains. Through body-based healing approaches like EMDR, somatic therapy, and breath work, Laura finally accessed and processed trauma that talk therapy had only helped her name but not feel.
Joy Farrow, a retired deputy sheriff with 28 years of law enforcement experience, adds critical perspective on why this matters beyond individual healing. She explains how understanding trauma biology transforms how we respond to survivors: "For far too long we expected survivors to give clear, linear stories. But trauma scrambles the memory because it's stored in the body, not just the brain." This insight changes everything from how survivors testify to how quickly they can reclaim their lives.
What took Laura 50 years might now be possible in months or years rather than decades. This offers profound hope to anyone who feels healing is out of reach. As Laura says, "As long as you are breathing, healing is never out of reach." Whether you're a survivor, support person, or helping professional, this episode provides vital information about cutting-edge trauma recovery approaches and why the body must be enlisted in the healing process. Listen now to discover how these breakthroughs are changing lives and offering new paths to recovery.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
In this final edition of the three-part conversation
with Laura Frambach and JoyFarrow, we build on the topics
of weaponization of kindness andtechnology through a personal
story of generational domesticviolence and the potential for
healing and growth beyond thetrauma.
I'm Maria McMullin and this isGenesis, the podcast.
Laura Frambach is a survivor ofgenerational domestic violence
(00:26):
and the co-author of StreetSmart Safety for Women a guide
to defensive living co-writtenwith Joy Farrow, a retired
deputy sheriff with 28 years oflaw enforcement experience.
Laura's story began in aviolent home with two alcoholic
parents Her father's brutalitymirrored by her mother's descent
into sadism and addiction,likely driven by undiagnosed
(00:48):
trauma and brain injury fromabuse.
She followed a familiar pathinto alcoholism, but has been in
recovery for over 35 years andin therapy for more than 30.
But it wasn't talk therapy thatled to true healing.
That came later, throughmodalities like EMDR, somatics
and breathwork body-basedapproaches that didn't exist
when she started her journey.
(01:09):
Together, laura and Joy nowshare a vital message Healing is
possible, and today it's faster, deeper and more accessible
than ever.
This episode will discussdomestic violence.
Laura and Joy, welcome back tothe show.
Thank you for having us.
Thank you, it's good to be withyou.
So we're in our finalconversation of a three part
series where we're talking aboutdifferent concepts related to
(01:31):
domestic violence that we don'talways get to cover in depth on
the show or really get to readabout, because there's not a lot
of research done about thesetopics.
We talked about theweaponization of kindness, we
talked about the misogyny oftechnology, and now we're going
to talk about something maybe alittle bit lighter.
We're going to talk abouttopics related to healing.
(01:53):
We often say at Genesis,women's Shelter and Support that
there is help and there is hopeand there really is, and you're
both an example of beinghelpful.
Joy worked in law enforcementand you're both an example of
being helpful.
Joy worked in law enforcement,laura, you were in the Army, and
you all co-authored a bookcalled Street Smart Safety for
(02:13):
Women, and you're doing amazingoutreach work and presentations
across the country on topicsrelated to domestic violence.
So in part one, laura, of ourseries, you talked about your
mother's experience withdomestic abuse.
Just recap that story forlisteners to give us a jumping
off point.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
I was raised with alcoholism and domestic violence
and although my father wasviolent to the whole family, he
wasn't as bad as my mother, butshe was also victimized by my
dad.
The interesting thing was thatmy mother's family said that she
hadn't always been like that,that she was once the nicest
person anyone ever knew, andnone of us could figure out what
(02:52):
changed, why she changed frombeing the nicest person anyone
ever knew to being a cruel andviolent person, and we kept
going around and around aboutthat.
What could have happened to her?
And then, just a few years ago,after actually about five
decades, it occurred to me thatmaybe the violence could have
traumatized her, actually causedtraumatic brain injury, and
(03:14):
that was the game changer for me.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Was there any confirmation that she had a
traumatic brain injury?
Speaker 2 (03:18):
No, my mom passed away about 25 years ago.
But what I will tell you isthat there is confirmation that
I did not imagine the splitbetween her personalities, the
change in her personality.
My aunt and my grandmothertalked about it for many years
and my mother continued todeteriorate until she passed
(03:39):
away.
She drank more, she was angrier, she made angry phone calls and
my aunt and my grandmother waslike what could have happened to
her.
And then, subsequently, after Ihad this realization, joy and I
talked to a number of my familymembers and almost inevitably
within five minutes and many ofthem I hadn't seen since I was a
(04:00):
child within five minutes theysaid what happened to your
mother.
She used to be such a nice lady.
So really that confirmed thefact that my mother had that
personality change.
And when I looked up traumaticbrain injury caused by
strangulation and repeated blowsto the head, which I know that
my mother endured because Iwitnessed it all of the pieces
(04:21):
fell into place.
So I didn't just want to comeout and make this claim that my
mother had changed withoutcorroboration, but from
everything I've been able todetermine and again Joy's been
with me during many of thoseconversations that was a real
change and my mother went frombeing a very, very kind, loving
person to truly being somebody Ithought was possessed.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
It's amazing you were able to connect the dots and
try to get some perspective onher experience along your
journey to try to heal from thetrauma of all of the abuse that
occurred when you were a child,and you've said that talk
therapy helped you survive, butit didn't necessarily help you
heal.
What finally moved the needlein your recovery and what should
(05:05):
today's survivors know aboutthe power of body-based healing?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Here's the thing Talk therapy did save my life, but
it did not heal me fully and,believe me, I spent 20 years in
talk therapy.
So here's what changedeverything.
So, like my parents, I'm analcoholic, but unlike them, I
found recovery.
But I relapsed after 16 yearsof sobriety and 20 years of
(05:30):
therapy, and I had varioustherapists.
So I kept trying differenttherapists, but the relapse
wasn't just for a weekend.
I went back to drinking forover a year because I just
couldn't stay sober.
Once I started again, and I hada pretty low bottom to begin
with.
So it wasn't that I didn't knowfrom experience what alcoholism
can do.
So after all that work, though,I thought I was well, I thought
(05:54):
that I was cured, and so therelapse was actually a very big
surprise to me.
And I was even more surprisedto find out that I could not
stay sober again even after allthat time, even after all the
insight and all of the tools.
So I finally went back totherapy with yet another
therapist, but this time Idiscovered something new
(06:15):
body-based healing, and thatchanged everything.
I found out that trauma doesn'tjust live in your mind, it
lives in your nervous system.
It buries itself in yourmuscles, your gut and even your
breath.
So for me, it wasn't until Istarted doing somatic healing,
body-based work like EMDR andbreath work and later
(06:37):
neurofeedback, that I wasfinally able to feel the trauma
that talk therapy had onlyhelped me to name, and it helped
me to realize thedisassociation I'd been living
with.
By the way, since relapsing, Inow have 17 years of consecutive
sobriety, so it worked.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Well, congratulations on that, and that certainly
sounds like a breakthroughmoment for you using those types
of therapies.
And I would also add not toyour experience, of course, but
just to this conversation thatit can be different for everyone
.
Absolutely, some people canheal just with talk therapy.
Others don't want talk therapyand they, you know they want to
(07:15):
try some other form of therapyor options that are meaningful
to them.
So I'm really proud of you,laura, for just working to
figure it all out.
You've done a tremendous jobjust taking care of yourself and
bringing yourself to this pointnow to help others.
Your family was decimated bydomestic abuse and, as you
(07:35):
suggested, it almost destroyedyou, but your message is one of
hope.
What would you say to someonewho feels like healing is just
too far out of reach for them?
Speaker 2 (07:45):
I tell people that, as long as you are breathing,
healing is never out of reach.
I've been in recoveryaltogether for about 35 years,
and in that time I have seenpeople from every walk of life
and at every stage of rockbottom find their way back.
I know someone now who is cleanand sober today after 45 years
(08:09):
of trying to get sober 45 years.
So if that person can do it andI can do it then you can do it
too, and that's what persistenceand hope can do.
And so, from my experience,healing from abuse is no
different, and it doesn't matterhow long it's been or how bad
it got or how bad it is today.
(08:30):
What matters is that you start.
And so I'll add that it's beenmy experience that both trauma
and addiction both thrive inisolation.
They need isolation.
They thrive in silence andsecrecy, which is why community
is so important for recovery.
So, whether it's a supportgroup, a faith-based community,
(08:51):
an organization like Genesis oreven a podcast like this, one
connection is what breaks thecycle.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Very true, Very true.
Now you call your recovery a 50year journey, but you emphasize
it doesn't have to take thatlong anymore.
What breakthroughs in traumascience do you want all of us to
hear loud and clear?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
So here's what I want every survivor and every
helping professional to hearloud and clear Body-based trauma
recovery has completely changedthe game full stop For years.
Recovery has completely changedthe game full stop.
For years I did what we wereall told to do.
I talked about the trauma overand over and over, but what I
didn't realize was that I wastalking about it while
(09:33):
completely disassociated anddisconnected from my body, and I
think that's true for manysurvivors trauma survivors is
that we have to disassociate tosurvive.
So I could describe whathappened, I could name it, but I
really couldn't feel it.
I didn't cry, I just could tellsomebody over and over again
what happened and sometimes Ieven felt bad for them that they
(09:54):
had to listen to it.
But I found that for me, as youmentioned, everybody's
different, but for me, if Icouldn't feel it, then I
couldn't heal it, and thatdidn't shift until I enlisted my
body in the process throughsomatic work and EMDR and breath
work and other nervous systemmodalities, and that really was
(10:15):
the game changer for me.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
So can you give us one example of body based
therapy?
Speaker 2 (10:20):
I will say the one that really was a game changer
for me was EMDR.
So that's rapid eye movementwhere you talk about the trauma
but the therapist moves a pencilor finger or some other object.
I think it's almost likehypnosis.
What it does remarkably, and Ican't tell you the science
(10:42):
behind it, but there werecertain situations where I would
be nauseous even just thinkingabout the situation.
And after going through EMDRand repeating it over and over
again not again like talktherapy where I just repeated it
so many times, but really goingthrough that process of using
that eye tracking that thefeeling of nausea, the feeling
(11:06):
of revulsion actually went away.
I'll share with you that.
You know I'm a tough customer,so I would play with it and I
would bring it up just to see ifit really worked, and I'm happy
to say that it did.
But I use probably, I would say, over a dozen over the course
of time because we have to healslowly.
I used a number of thosebody-based tools in order to
(11:28):
reset my nervous system.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Wow, that's incredible.
You have such determination.
I mean, it says a lot about youand just your willpower and
your determination to feel theway that you want it to feel and
live the life that you want tolive, that you want it to feel
and live the life that you wantto live Joy.
So there are some studies nowthat show trauma-informed,
body-based therapies like EMDRand somatics can reduce PTSD
(11:50):
symptoms in a fraction of thetime, as Laura just alluded to,
that it used to take with talktherapy alone.
From your law enforcementperspective, how does that shift
change the game for survivorsand what does it tell us is
possible now?
Speaker 3 (12:05):
This is really a game changer.
So from my law enforcement lens, this is just amazing and I
have done it myself at work.
I had several sessions of it,of EMDR.
Yes, just from some reoccurringincidents at work.
(12:25):
Laura said, why don't you trythis?
And I did and it was amazing.
And what we know of EMDR andsomatic therapy is that they can
help survivors process traumafaster.
It also helps survivors feelsafe in their own bodies again.
So talk therapy can take yearsto get there and that speed
(12:50):
matters.
It means survivors may feelstronger and more in control
sooner, and that changeseverything from how they testify
to how they live.
It also breaks that old beliefthat healing has to be long and
slow.
The body can actually be a partof the solution.
(13:10):
So survivors don't have to keepreliving the trauma, they can
release it, and that opens thedoor to real empowerment and
faster justice.
So it also changes how we inlaw enforcement understand
trauma.
For far too long we expectedsurvivors to give clear, linear
(13:31):
stories.
But trauma scrambles the memorybecause it's stored in the body
, not just the brain.
So when a survivor can't recallthings on command or shuts down
, it's not defiance, it'sbiology.
So that's a call to be moretrauma-informed.
It pushes us to listendifferently and support better
(13:54):
and protect with empathy.
We're not just helping peoplesurvive, we're helping them
recover.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Yeah, and I love what you said about it.
It's not defiance, it's biology.
That's so smart and, comingfrom a former law enforcement
professional, it's incrediblyinsightful for you to understand
it that way, and my hope wouldbe that you share that with
other members of law enforcementso that they can learn from
your experience and yourunderstanding of trauma informed
(14:21):
practices.
What I'd love to do now is justwrap up the three episodes that
we have recorded and givepeople a summary of each one, so
let's start with theweaponization of kindness, laura
.
What were the key takeawaypoints from that conversation?
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Our hardware, our body-based hardware, tells us to
be safe, but society installs abug that says be nice, be kind,
and predators weaponize ourinclination to be polite and
kind at all costs.
And how do we overcome thatkind?
And the important thing is theturning point that says am I
(15:02):
being nice because I want to beor am I being nice because I'm
afraid of the consequences if Idon't?
Speaker 3 (15:10):
I'm going to say that your intuition is not woo-woo,
it's your survival hardware, andyour gut instinct is hardwired
for survival.
So ignoring it in favor ofpoliteness is a glitch we've
been trained to accept and it'stime to uninstall it.
(15:30):
Yeah, that's excellent advice.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
And then in episode two we talked about the misogyny
of technology.
Just give us a few points ofthe key takeaways there.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Misogyny has weaponized technology, because
the algorithms pointing people,especially young men, to harmful
content, to toxic content, isnot an accident.
They're not stumbling upon thiscontent by accident.
This is a business model.
The creators monetize thecontent Every click that happens
.
Cha-ching the platforms getupwards of 30% of all of that
(16:04):
content as well.
So, to be succinct, it isn't anaccident, it's a business model
.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah, that's a great point.
And to combat all of that, wehave several things.
So first we have thepossibilities of future
legislation, which we talkedabout in the second part of this
series, and then, of course,what we just talked about, all
of these opportunities forhealing.
They are helpful, they createhope.
There's all kinds ofpossibilities that we can grow
(16:30):
from our traumatic experiencesand really live the life that we
want to live, and you're bothan example of that.
Any final thoughts before I letyou go.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
We want listeners to know.
It's just what you've said,maria there is help and there is
hope and, as I've said when westarted this series, I am 70
years old and I've been doingthis for 50 years and I do not
want one more person to have todo that, and with today's
trauma-based science, they don'thave to, and I want to say that
(17:02):
you're stronger than you thinkyou are, so reclaim your power
and take control.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Joy, Laura, thank you so much.
I've learned a lot from both ofyou and I appreciate you being
on the show, spending the timeand for talking with me today.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Thanks so much.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Maria.
Genesis Women's Shelter andSupport exists to give women in
abusive situations a way out.
We are committed to our missionof providing safety, shelter
and support for women andchildren who have experienced
domestic violence, and to raiseawareness regarding its cause,
prevalence and impact.
Join us in creating a societalshift on how people think about
(17:36):
domestic violence.
You can learn more atGenesisShelterterorg and when
you follow us on social media onFacebook and Instagram at
Genesis Women's Shelter, and onX at Genesis Shelter.
The Genesis Helpline isavailable 24 hours a day, seven
days a week, by call or text at214-946-HELP 214-946-4357.
In this final edition of the three-part conversation
with Laura Frambach and JoyFarrow, we build on the topics
of weaponization of kindness andtechnology through a personal
story of generational domesticviolence and the potential for
healing and growth beyond thetrauma.
I'm Maria McMullin and this isGenesis, the podcast.
Laura Frambach is a survivor ofgenerational domestic violence
(00:26):
and the co-author of StreetSmart Safety for Women a guide
to defensive living co-writtenwith Joy Farrow, a retired
deputy sheriff with 28 years oflaw enforcement experience.
Laura's story began in aviolent home with two alcoholic
parents Her father's brutalitymirrored by her mother's descent
into sadism and addiction,likely driven by undiagnosed
(00:48):
trauma and brain injury fromabuse.
She followed a familiar pathinto alcoholism, but has been in
recovery for over 35 years andin therapy for more than 30.
But it wasn't talk therapy thatled to true healing.
That came later, throughmodalities like EMDR, somatics
and breathwork body-basedapproaches that didn't exist
when she started her journey.
(01:09):
Together, laura and Joy nowshare a vital message Healing is
possible, and today it's faster, deeper and more accessible
than ever.
This episode will discussdomestic violence.
Laura and Joy, welcome back tothe show.
Thank you for having us.
Thank you, it's good to be withyou.
So we're in our finalconversation of a three part
series where we're talking aboutdifferent concepts related to
(01:31):
domestic violence that we don'talways get to cover in depth on
the show or really get to readabout, because there's not a lot
of research done about thesetopics.
We talked about theweaponization of kindness, we
talked about the misogyny oftechnology, and now we're going
to talk about something maybe alittle bit lighter.
We're going to talk abouttopics related to healing.
(01:53):
We often say at Genesis,women's Shelter and Support that
there is help and there is hopeand there really is, and you're
both an example of beinghelpful.
Joy worked in law enforcementand you're both an example of
being helpful.
Joy worked in law enforcement,laura, you were in the Army, and
you all co-authored a bookcalled Street Smart Safety for
(02:13):
Women, and you're doing amazingoutreach work and presentations
across the country on topicsrelated to domestic violence.
So in part one, laura, of ourseries, you talked about your
mother's experience withdomestic abuse.
Just recap that story forlisteners to give us a jumping
off point.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
I was raised with alcoholism and domestic violence
and although my father wasviolent to the whole family, he
wasn't as bad as my mother, butshe was also victimized by my
dad.
The interesting thing was thatmy mother's family said that she
hadn't always been like that,that she was once the nicest
person anyone ever knew, andnone of us could figure out what
(02:52):
changed, why she changed frombeing the nicest person anyone
ever knew to being a cruel andviolent person, and we kept
going around and around aboutthat.
What could have happened to her?
And then, just a few years ago,after actually about five
decades, it occurred to me thatmaybe the violence could have
traumatized her, actually causedtraumatic brain injury, and
(03:14):
that was the game changer for me.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Was there any confirmation that she had a
traumatic brain injury?
Speaker 2 (03:18):
No, my mom passed away about 25 years ago.
But what I will tell you isthat there is confirmation that
I did not imagine the splitbetween her personalities, the
change in her personality.
My aunt and my grandmothertalked about it for many years
and my mother continued todeteriorate until she passed
(03:39):
away.
She drank more, she was angrier, she made angry phone calls and
my aunt and my grandmother waslike what could have happened to
her.
And then, subsequently, after Ihad this realization, joy and I
talked to a number of my familymembers and almost inevitably
within five minutes and many ofthem I hadn't seen since I was a
(04:00):
child within five minutes theysaid what happened to your
mother.
She used to be such a nice lady.
So really that confirmed thefact that my mother had that
personality change.
And when I looked up traumaticbrain injury caused by
strangulation and repeated blowsto the head, which I know that
my mother endured because Iwitnessed it all of the pieces
(04:21):
fell into place.
So I didn't just want to comeout and make this claim that my
mother had changed withoutcorroboration, but from
everything I've been able todetermine and again Joy's been
with me during many of thoseconversations that was a real
change and my mother went frombeing a very, very kind, loving
person to truly being somebody Ithought was possessed.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
It's amazing you were able to connect the dots and
try to get some perspective onher experience along your
journey to try to heal from thetrauma of all of the abuse that
occurred when you were a child,and you've said that talk
therapy helped you survive, butit didn't necessarily help you
heal.
What finally moved the needlein your recovery and what should
(05:05):
today's survivors know aboutthe power of body-based healing?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Here's the thing Talk therapy did save my life, but
it did not heal me fully and,believe me, I spent 20 years in
talk therapy.
So here's what changedeverything.
So, like my parents, I'm analcoholic, but unlike them, I
found recovery.
But I relapsed after 16 yearsof sobriety and 20 years of
(05:30):
therapy, and I had varioustherapists.
So I kept trying differenttherapists, but the relapse
wasn't just for a weekend.
I went back to drinking forover a year because I just
couldn't stay sober.
Once I started again, and I hada pretty low bottom to begin
with.
So it wasn't that I didn't knowfrom experience what alcoholism
can do.
So after all that work, though,I thought I was well, I thought
(05:54):
that I was cured, and so therelapse was actually a very big
surprise to me.
And I was even more surprisedto find out that I could not
stay sober again even after allthat time, even after all the
insight and all of the tools.
So I finally went back totherapy with yet another
therapist, but this time Idiscovered something new
(06:15):
body-based healing, and thatchanged everything.
I found out that trauma doesn'tjust live in your mind, it
lives in your nervous system.
It buries itself in yourmuscles, your gut and even your
breath.
So for me, it wasn't until Istarted doing somatic healing,
body-based work like EMDR andbreath work and later
(06:37):
neurofeedback, that I wasfinally able to feel the trauma
that talk therapy had onlyhelped me to name, and it helped
me to realize thedisassociation I'd been living
with.
By the way, since relapsing, Inow have 17 years of consecutive
sobriety, so it worked.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Well, congratulations on that, and that certainly
sounds like a breakthroughmoment for you using those types
of therapies.
And I would also add not toyour experience, of course, but
just to this conversation thatit can be different for everyone
.
Absolutely, some people canheal just with talk therapy.
Others don't want talk therapyand they, you know they want to
(07:15):
try some other form of therapyor options that are meaningful
to them.
So I'm really proud of you,laura, for just working to
figure it all out.
You've done a tremendous jobjust taking care of yourself and
bringing yourself to this pointnow to help others.
Your family was decimated bydomestic abuse and, as you
(07:35):
suggested, it almost destroyedyou, but your message is one of
hope.
What would you say to someonewho feels like healing is just
too far out of reach for them?
Speaker 2 (07:45):
I tell people that, as long as you are breathing,
healing is never out of reach.
I've been in recoveryaltogether for about 35 years,
and in that time I have seenpeople from every walk of life
and at every stage of rockbottom find their way back.
I know someone now who is cleanand sober today after 45 years
(08:09):
of trying to get sober 45 years.
So if that person can do it andI can do it then you can do it
too, and that's what persistenceand hope can do.
And so, from my experience,healing from abuse is no
different, and it doesn't matterhow long it's been or how bad
it got or how bad it is today.
(08:30):
What matters is that you start.
And so I'll add that it's beenmy experience that both trauma
and addiction both thrive inisolation.
They need isolation.
They thrive in silence andsecrecy, which is why community
is so important for recovery.
So, whether it's a supportgroup, a faith-based community,
(08:51):
an organization like Genesis oreven a podcast like this, one
connection is what breaks thecycle.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Very true, Very true.
Now you call your recovery a 50year journey, but you emphasize
it doesn't have to take thatlong anymore.
What breakthroughs in traumascience do you want all of us to
hear loud and clear?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
So here's what I want every survivor and every
helping professional to hearloud and clear Body-based trauma
recovery has completely changedthe game full stop For years.
Recovery has completely changedthe game full stop.
For years I did what we wereall told to do.
I talked about the trauma overand over and over, but what I
didn't realize was that I wastalking about it while
(09:33):
completely disassociated anddisconnected from my body, and I
think that's true for manysurvivors trauma survivors is
that we have to disassociate tosurvive.
So I could describe whathappened, I could name it, but I
really couldn't feel it.
I didn't cry, I just could tellsomebody over and over again
what happened and sometimes Ieven felt bad for them that they
(09:54):
had to listen to it.
But I found that for me, as youmentioned, everybody's
different, but for me, if Icouldn't feel it, then I
couldn't heal it, and thatdidn't shift until I enlisted my
body in the process throughsomatic work and EMDR and breath
work and other nervous systemmodalities, and that really was
(10:15):
the game changer for me.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
So can you give us one example of body based
therapy?
Speaker 2 (10:20):
I will say the one that really was a game changer
for me was EMDR.
So that's rapid eye movementwhere you talk about the trauma
but the therapist moves a pencilor finger or some other object.
I think it's almost likehypnosis.
What it does remarkably, and Ican't tell you the science
(10:42):
behind it, but there werecertain situations where I would
be nauseous even just thinkingabout the situation.
And after going through EMDRand repeating it over and over
again not again like talktherapy where I just repeated it
so many times, but really goingthrough that process of using
that eye tracking that thefeeling of nausea, the feeling
(11:06):
of revulsion actually went away.
I'll share with you that.
You know I'm a tough customer,so I would play with it and I
would bring it up just to see ifit really worked, and I'm happy
to say that it did.
But I use probably, I would say, over a dozen over the course
of time because we have to healslowly.
I used a number of thosebody-based tools in order to
(11:28):
reset my nervous system.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Wow, that's incredible.
You have such determination.
I mean, it says a lot about youand just your willpower and
your determination to feel theway that you want it to feel and
live the life that you want tolive, that you want it to feel
and live the life that you wantto live Joy.
So there are some studies nowthat show trauma-informed,
body-based therapies like EMDRand somatics can reduce PTSD
(11:50):
symptoms in a fraction of thetime, as Laura just alluded to,
that it used to take with talktherapy alone.
From your law enforcementperspective, how does that shift
change the game for survivorsand what does it tell us is
possible now?
Speaker 3 (12:05):
This is really a game changer.
So from my law enforcement lens, this is just amazing and I
have done it myself at work.
I had several sessions of it,of EMDR.
Yes, just from some reoccurringincidents at work.
(12:25):
Laura said, why don't you trythis?
And I did and it was amazing.
And what we know of EMDR andsomatic therapy is that they can
help survivors process traumafaster.
It also helps survivors feelsafe in their own bodies again.
So talk therapy can take yearsto get there and that speed
(12:50):
matters.
It means survivors may feelstronger and more in control
sooner, and that changeseverything from how they testify
to how they live.
It also breaks that old beliefthat healing has to be long and
slow.
The body can actually be a partof the solution.
(13:10):
So survivors don't have to keepreliving the trauma, they can
release it, and that opens thedoor to real empowerment and
faster justice.
So it also changes how we inlaw enforcement understand
trauma.
For far too long we expectedsurvivors to give clear, linear
(13:31):
stories.
But trauma scrambles the memorybecause it's stored in the body
, not just the brain.
So when a survivor can't recallthings on command or shuts down
, it's not defiance, it'sbiology.
So that's a call to be moretrauma-informed.
It pushes us to listendifferently and support better
(13:54):
and protect with empathy.
We're not just helping peoplesurvive, we're helping them
recover.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Yeah, and I love what you said about it.
It's not defiance, it's biology.
That's so smart and, comingfrom a former law enforcement
professional, it's incrediblyinsightful for you to understand
it that way, and my hope wouldbe that you share that with
other members of law enforcementso that they can learn from
your experience and yourunderstanding of trauma informed
(14:21):
practices.
What I'd love to do now is justwrap up the three episodes that
we have recorded and givepeople a summary of each one, so
let's start with theweaponization of kindness, laura
.
What were the key takeawaypoints from that conversation?
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Our hardware, our body-based hardware, tells us to
be safe, but society installs abug that says be nice, be kind,
and predators weaponize ourinclination to be polite and
kind at all costs.
And how do we overcome thatkind?
And the important thing is theturning point that says am I
(15:02):
being nice because I want to beor am I being nice because I'm
afraid of the consequences if Idon't?
Speaker 3 (15:10):
I'm going to say that your intuition is not woo-woo,
it's your survival hardware, andyour gut instinct is hardwired
for survival.
So ignoring it in favor ofpoliteness is a glitch we've
been trained to accept and it'stime to uninstall it.
(15:30):
Yeah, that's excellent advice.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
And then in episode two we talked about the misogyny
of technology.
Just give us a few points ofthe key takeaways there.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Misogyny has weaponized technology, because
the algorithms pointing people,especially young men, to harmful
content, to toxic content, isnot an accident.
They're not stumbling upon thiscontent by accident.
This is a business model.
The creators monetize thecontent Every click that happens
.
Cha-ching the platforms getupwards of 30% of all of that
(16:04):
content as well.
So, to be succinct, it isn't anaccident, it's a business model
.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah, that's a great point.
And to combat all of that, wehave several things.
So first we have thepossibilities of future
legislation, which we talkedabout in the second part of this
series, and then, of course,what we just talked about, all
of these opportunities forhealing.
They are helpful, they createhope.
There's all kinds ofpossibilities that we can grow
(16:30):
from our traumatic experiencesand really live the life that we
want to live, and you're bothan example of that.
Any final thoughts before I letyou go.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
We want listeners to know.
It's just what you've said,maria there is help and there is
hope and, as I've said when westarted this series, I am 70
years old and I've been doingthis for 50 years and I do not
want one more person to have todo that, and with today's
trauma-based science, they don'thave to, and I want to say that
(17:02):
you're stronger than you thinkyou are, so reclaim your power
and take control.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Joy, Laura, thank you so much.
I've learned a lot from both ofyou and I appreciate you being
on the show, spending the timeand for talking with me today.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Thanks so much.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Maria.
Genesis Women's Shelter andSupport exists to give women in
abusive situations a way out.
We are committed to our missionof providing safety, shelter
and support for women andchildren who have experienced
domestic violence, and to raiseawareness regarding its cause,
prevalence and impact.
Join us in creating a societalshift on how people think about
(17:36):
domestic violence.
You can learn more atGenesisShelterterorg and when
you follow us on social media onFacebook and Instagram at
Genesis Women's Shelter, and onX at Genesis Shelter.
The Genesis Helpline isavailable 24 hours a day, seven
days a week, by call or text at214-946-HELP 214-946-4357.
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