December 14, 2022 • 52 mins
GG has an honest conversation with relationship coach, Stefanos Sidandos. Together they talk about healthy boundaries and polyamory vs monogamy, what the idealistic example of a relationship is vs what it really is, and is it ok to be friends with your ex.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Straw Hut Media.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
You know her from Shaws of Sunset. You know she
doesn't hold back.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
I grew up in an environment that as a woman,
I was told be a man, be powerful like a man.
If a man can do it, you can.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
This is genuinely gig.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Everybody, please welcome Stefanos, sufandus. Welcome to genuinely Gigi. To
welcome Gigi to genuinely welcome stuff, and thank you for
being here.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Yeah, thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
I'm excited. Where are you located right now?
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Boston, Texas?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
I live in Austin, Austin, Texas. That's nice. Have you
always lived there in Austin?
Speaker 1 (00:44):
No, we were in my wife's Americans, So we were
in California, Southern California first and then North County San Diego,
and then we moved here. She has family here and
I just got to hit to be here a couple
of years ago to the end of twenty nineteen, and
it just felt like the right move. So it has been.
It's been great for us to be And I miss
the ocean. On an ocean baby, are you me too?
Speaker 3 (01:04):
I'm a coastal baby. I grew up in Plia, Del Rey,
and Palas Verdies. I lived in Plaid del Ray for
a few years and then my parents moved to Palace
Vardies and they still have a house out there. So
I'm definitely a beach baby. But I've been living in
the valley, which I swore on my whole life. I
would never, you know, be in the valley. Here, I
am in the valley and obsessed with the valley. It
(01:28):
just goes to show never set limits on yourself.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Right, Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
I would like to let everybody know, Stef who knows
is a you are a relationship coach? Correct?
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yeah, amidst many other.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Things, yes, many many other things. That your website is
amazing makes me want to pick your brain even more.
Anytime I see an intellectual, I get very, very very
interested to pick their brain. So I'm really excited to
have you here and hopefully answer some questions that myself
and a lot of people out there come across. You know,
(02:03):
I love your Instagram page. You guys have to follow him.
Your Instagram's amazing. It is so relatable. It's not cheesy
because people think relationship coach. Why he's probably always talking
about love and falling in love and it's just not
like that because everyone knows me. I'm really I can't
stand that type of approach. I love your genuinity and
(02:27):
your honesty that it's sometimes the woman is fucking up
and sometimes it's the man who fucks up. You know,
it's just about your level of honesty and understanding of situations.
So I would love if I can start off by
asking you a question about my life personally, and I
would love to see what your approach would be on
(02:48):
hearing a short story.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, okay, go for.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
It in November, which is like a month from now.
I'll be forty one years old, so just keep age
and times and whatnot in mind. I was born and
raised in la and I grew up with very progressive
parents from Iran. They came here way before the revolution,
but obviously, you know, dealt with the revolution. Just very
(03:14):
progressive parents. My parents did not want me to affiliate
my life around just Persian people as my culture is.
They wanted me to expand my mind and allow myself
to be a part of anything. My life sort of
drifted on this way, but with a very progressive mother.
In the eighties was feminism. Feminism was a huge, huge,
(03:38):
movement in the eighties, and I remember being little and
being sort of embarrassed because I thought my mother was
a lesbian, and I thought, maybe my dad just doesn't
realize this, or maybe this is the agreement, you know,
I was. I didn't know. My mother was always saying
to me, don't rely on a man to do anything
(03:58):
for you. You can do it. If a guy can do it,
you can. You don't need a husband. Why do you
need a husband to take care of you? Know, you
take care of yourself. Very early on, this was my mentality.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
She was married to your father though at this time.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
My father was very ego alpha and my mother was
very ego alpha. So I grew up in a very
hostile alpha environment and I was a tomboy. I hated
wearing dresses. I didn't have Barbie dolls. I remember one
time someone got me one for my birthday. On accident,
my sister and I chopped its head off and flushed
(04:35):
it in the toilet, you know. And then dating came around,
and I believed I had to be this alpha right
because that's what mommy told me and that's what Daddy portrays.
So I began emasculating every man I was in a
relationship with every single man because of my ego and
(04:56):
partially because of my conditioning.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Right.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
I grew up in an environment that as a woman,
I was told be a man, be powerful like a man.
If a man can do it, you can. That was
my mentality. Here I am today, almost forty one years old,
I can't say I've ever been in love.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Do you yearn to feel that love that you speak of?
Speaker 3 (05:20):
I wouldn't know. I think if I had touched it before,
to know what it feels like, I would yearn for it.
I look at movies and hear stories and I think,
is that real like or am I ever going to
feel something like that? Or is this just all written?
And everyone in reality is chasing a movie concept? So
(05:43):
I have no sense of romance in my mind. I
have now chosen at the age of forty one, I
chose a sperm donor to have a baby because I
can't imagine being attached to a man. And now I
am choosing the route of polyamory because I realized the
honesty with myself was I cannot be stuck to one
(06:07):
man and be the responsibility of one man. I have
developed into this. I would say, now, what would be
your outlook on hearing this little short snippet forty one
years of my life with men? Would you say I've
reached polyamory due to my alpha ego past and being conditioned,
(06:31):
or do you think I have evolved and realized maybe
my issue was I was trying to conform into a
society that was like a Hollywood movie that I'm supposed
to fall in love and find the one, and you know,
White Picket Fence and that whole fairy tale.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Well, the observation that I would make is that the
opposite of polyamory or non monogamy isn't necessarily monogamy, but
you haven't necessarily given yourself a chance to surrender fully
to being in an intimate union. Because I think what
I observe and what you've seen in your own life
growing up is a broken or broken examples of a
(07:12):
marriage or a union or an intimate relationship. There you've
got your mother saying, don't be with a man, you
do it or yourself. Whatever men can do, you can do.
Yet she remains with your father. It's very confusing for
a child. Number one, Then you've got two parents that
are fighting for control. And pole position in a relationship,
not really meeting each other's needs, not hearing each other,
(07:34):
being insensitive to each other, and then you growing up
with that and having very strong, strong voices. And so
when you've entered relationship, you've either entered relationship pursuing what's familiar,
so very similar dynamics that reinforce the belief that, well,
I'm probably going to be by myself, or I can't
really find a man that's going to be able to
meet me where I'm at, or you've attracted relationships where
(07:58):
you've dominated those relationships which haven't been fulfilling for you.
So to say that you've arrived at polyamory because that's
a natural progression for you, I would say that's not
the case. There's nothing wrong with polyamories. There's nothing wrong
or right with monogamy or non monogamy or any relationship
container that you desire to be in or anyone desires
(08:18):
to be. What is either healthy or unhealthy, or suitable
or unsuitable is how we arrive at that container. And so,
to be very direct with you, how I think you've
arrived at that container is that there's been parts of
you and parts of your nervous system that are too
scared to surrender to what love could be. And let
me tell you what love isn't. Love is not the
(08:39):
Disney fairy tale white picket fence version. That is not
a love per se. That is an idealistic example. And
look for some maybe that's what it is, right, but
it's an idealistic example that is often out of reach
because what it presupposes is that there is no history
in the individual, There is no wounding in the individual,
(09:00):
there is no trauma in the individual. There is perfection
in the individuals that are coming together. And it shows
just one shade or aspect or expression of the dynamic
of the relationship. And it confuses us because we think
that's how it should be all the time. So the
moment a relationship breaks down or there's conflict or there's
an argument or the difficulty, we just go, well, this
is not for me, and we don't have the tools
(09:20):
to actually deal with the conflict, because again, you would
have just witnessed your parents and there would have been
part of you saying fuck this, I don't want to
have this relationship that my parents have, right, And Mum's
always saying AB and C so I'm just going to
go do that. And so you know you have needs,
you have physical needs, sexual needs, and so you're potentially
meeting them through polyamory. But you've got to ask yourself
where's that coming from. Is it to keep men at
(09:40):
an emotional distance because you don't trust men, or you're
not sure that or you want more control, or you
just don't believe in the possibility of intimate union of
a vulnerable exchange or a series of vulnerable exchanges that
lead to surrender and receiving and you being different and
you're opening your heart in such a way where you
can love. Because I would say that for you to
do that, you would need to feel really, really safe
(10:02):
in your body. And polyamory or non monogamy or multiple
sexual partners, there's at times a delusion of intimacy because
there's a lack of depth. Now again, if to come
from is from a really open, sincere place, you can
have depth with multiple people. Absolutely you can. You've got
to determine where it's really coming from. Again, if I
(10:23):
was going to give an observation, I would say, you
haven't given yourself permission or allowance to explore that. And
if you have the moment that it's gone a little
too difficult, or it's gotten uncomfortable, or it's reminded you
of something very unpleasant from growing up. You've just pushed
it away and you haven't been able to go over
the hump and work through that. Right? Does that I mean,
does that resonate for you? Or is that? Am I
(10:45):
completely off?
Speaker 3 (10:46):
It does resonate? Does it resonate with me? As far
as something that was as existent for me? I do
believe I got myself through a lot of hurdles through relationships,
from being in very long relationships that were about three
and a half four years each and to going to
only dating a guy for three four months. And as
(11:08):
soon as I heard him say I love you, I ran,
you know, and I learned.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
What does that tell you about yourself?
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Well, well, that's the thing, because I do a lot
of self healing. I believe in self healing at every
moment of your life. I'm a very logical person. Maybe
too logical. It gets the best of me. So my
issue is I wouldn't I wouldn't call it an issue.
Let me take that back. My reservation comes with my
(11:35):
concept of human adaptation. Human adaptation we have the ability
as humans to readapt so fast. And we see that
with since we're speaking of love, we see that with love, lust, heartbreak. Right,
you see how fast people are capable of actually getting
(11:56):
over something.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
I'll poise you there for a moment, pose you there
for a moment. Yes, And and most people don't get
over or they don't move through. They don't learn the lessons,
they don't actually heal. And healing isn't a logical there's
an aspect of narrative cognition logic that comes with healing,
but it's a very small part. The rest is really
done through the nervous system sematically. But when it comes
(12:21):
to getting over, most people suppress and repress. They don't
actually heal that experience. They don't actually grieve that experience
because it's too intense, and they stuff down emotions and
think that they're over it or think that they've moved
through it, but they have not. And that's true for
the majority of us.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
I agree with that. I agree with that, and I
agree that that is the majority of US. I believe
that was me at one point in my life where
I was severely hurt in relationships or within the home,
or whatnot, and it was supassed and later came out
it as an explosion somewhere else, which led me into
(13:00):
a very long journey, never ending journey of self discovery.
For me, I believe I've reached a point in my
life with my logic that I can somehow control it,
and I can now somehow attach emotions to it and
understand what it is, why this is making me sad.
(13:21):
And I love to give myself about a week to
two weeks of isolation sometimes whatever I need to do,
if I need to be off in nature, if I
need to leave the country and just be wherever I
feel my soul is taking me in that moment, and
I reflect, I reflect, I take myself through it. I cry,
I mourn, I laugh, I giggle, you know what I mean,
(13:45):
And then I talk myself through it. I am very
self aware, which bothers me oftentimes when I see most
of my friends my girlfriends, that they have a hard
time accessing this part of themselves because sometimes emotions are
so busy taking over that they can't see the logic
(14:06):
of what they're going through and understanding it. For me,
it is it's easier for me to sort of just
move on and get past. My polyamory journey is completely
separate from sexuality and needs of sexuality. I'm not a
very sexual person and that's probably why another reason why
I chose polyamory, it was becoming very difficult for me
(14:30):
to have a man rely on me for his sexual
needs and desires. And when you're in a relationship and
you're not giving that to someone right that the rumor
is that they go out and cheat right or if
you're with a good guy, he just leaves you and says,
this relationship is no longer fulfilling me completely. So I
(14:52):
sort of put that rule up, and now you post
it something again on your Instagram. I love your Instagram.
You said there's four types of people in relationship.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
The four types of people when you're dating the trickster.
This person is the manipulator. This person is going to
pretend there's someone but they are not. Number two, the
show boter. They are arrogant, not confident. They care more
about how they look and the things that they do
than you and the relationship. Number three the straight shoot.
(15:22):
This person's direct with you. They are honest, they know
who they are, they're aware, they're self aware and they
care about your feelings. And number four, the confused. They
don't know what the fuck they want. They are super confused.
They think they want to date, they don't. They want
to be in a relationship, they don't.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
I felt I identified with two of the tapes. I
felt like I identified with the trickster as well as
the one who knows exactly what they want. Yes, so
I'm trying to find some balance between them because they
sound completely opposite from each other, and I'm like, wait,
why am I identifying with both?
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yeah? I mean that's a great point. So two things
that come to me that I would like to share
very very upfront. So the first is our journeys are
our own and how we arrive at the decisions we arrive. Yes,
can sometimes be improved and other times it's just our journeys.
And so no one has the right to tell us, oh,
(16:18):
you should be doing this or you could be doing that.
And here's the thing that we can look at some
of the reasons and the patterns that you've developed as
a child moving into adoleste, through adolescence and into adulth
that have you arriving at the decisions you've made today.
You know, for example, I don't hear that it's difficult
for you to access emotions. I hear that you're very
deliberate in the way that you access your emotional body.
(16:41):
And I think you've learned that over time and probably
and I don't know if there was a lot of
emotion in your family dynamic, maybe there was none.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
No, there's none. Very stressed emotionally my family. I'm the
emotional one of the family, and for some reason that
makes me the bad one.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
So because emotions can be seen as a threat, they
can be seen as volatile. You mentioned the word control,
and we can come back to that. I'm curious where
control plays a role in your life, but we can
come back to that. But the other thing that I
that I wanted to say was that you know, the
reality is that when we come to choosing to be
(17:19):
in a kind of relationship container that suits us, often
you know, what we're doing is experimenting. We're trying things on. Yes,
you know, and there's nothing wrong with that. And you
knowing yourself, you knowing that being a physically sexual being
is not something that is a priority or a focus
(17:39):
on for you, and knowing that that can be for
others and then choosing this polyamorous relationship container route so
that those individuals can have an outlet or be satisfied
or experience that with others, but you can experience maybe
the emotional intimacy or companionship or whatever it is. Right,
that's a sure way to look at relationships. So there's
(18:02):
this again. I won't be really clear. There's no right
or wrong here. What's really important for us is that
we just I mean examine the you know, feeling, to
examine sit with what's our come from? So is our
come from from a place of compensation or shadow or
pain or fear and we're in avoidance of something, or
(18:22):
is our come from from genuine curiosity? Because when we're curious,
we're opening our body posture in our nervous systems. We're
not coming from trapped trauma. We're not coming from a retracted,
fearful state. And you can check in with your body
like you can check in like am I tense and nervous?
Am I? Am I feeling pressure in my chest? Am I?
Am I feeling anxious and restless? Because if that's the
(18:44):
energy that your choices are coming from, chances are it's
coming from a repressed or suppressed place that isn't really
authentic to who you're actually wanting to be.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
We're going to take a quick break. But when we
come back.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Everyone says to me with polyamory, oh you know, they
make a face. You don't worry. You'll find the right
one and you'll see this is all just a joke.
And I get so upset. I want to you know,
I want to scream at them because I said, well,
what the fuck is the right one?
Speaker 1 (19:18):
And when I say you, I'm not just speaking to you,
I'm too, I'm speaking to it, all of us.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
I agree. It's uh, suppression breeds resentment. It's it's very inevitable.
A lot of the times I think we see in
relationships when people are either gay and suppressing that, you know,
the relationships turn violent. Sometimes when people are just emotionally
(19:45):
unstable in relationships. I see so many relationships, marriages, whatnot,
and in divorce, and I've always just had this notion
I don't believe in marriage because we are human. Again,
I go back to my logic, which I hate. We're
humans and we are learning to readopt ourselves, and it's
(20:06):
impossible for two people to stay completely in sync in
their journey of healing and growing and experiencing and remaining
constant for each other. That's what my logic, for some
reason tells me, and the other part of me says,
but no, that that can't be true, because I have
(20:28):
family and I have best friends that have been in
my life for thirty five years and they've remained constant.
We just understand boundaries and the dynamic of these relationships,
which I don't think society easily allows us to place
these extra labels on, you know, intimate relationships, because then
(20:49):
there's something wrong with you. Everyone says to me with polyamory,
oh you know, they make a face. Oh, you don't worry.
You'll find the right one and you'll see this is
all just a joke. And I get so upset. I
want to you know, I want to scream with them
because I said, well, what the fuck is the right one?
(21:10):
What does that mean? Can you tell us what is this?
What is this concept? The one?
Speaker 1 (21:17):
I love the way you ask the question?
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Mind you? Can I tell you? My producers? Right, you
just came back from his honeymoon having this conversation. I
love you Ryan.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
That Oh my god, So you know going deep with
one person. So there's something I'm let me answer it
in a couple of different ways as supposed to direct.
Let me answer in a symbolic way, just to tap
into different areas of out thinking and mind and being.
So there is something that comes with knowing that you
(21:49):
were committed to each other in a very particular way,
because it doesn't leave room for the convenient escape. Now
I'm just going to caveat something for a moment. I'm
not not non monogamy. I am an advocate of multiple
different types of relationship containers, including non monogamous ones. I
(22:09):
really truly am. Depends on the individuals and so many
other factors that feed into that. I told you earlier,
I shared with you earlier. What I'm more a proponent
of is what's the come from? Get fucking real with
you come from? Don't bullshit yourself. Pause that, let me
come back. There's something deep, there's something profound that happens
when or there's a depth that occurs that excavates parts
(22:33):
of self that come through when there is a commitment
to be with that person. So in previous relationships, for me,
when I was in monogamous relationships, they went monogamous for
me because I was cheating. Now, I was cheating, meaning
that I was going beyond the boundaries and the agreements
that we had in the relationships. So I had convenient
escape routes when the pain in the relationship got too much,
(22:54):
instead of dealing with it in mature, healthy ways, I
would find pleasure. Escape roots greater the pain, the greater
the pleasure. Now, our intimate You said something earlier about
friends and family that are constant in my life, So
you know that you know, constant in intimate relationship. It
can be possible. The pain point or the difficulty is
(23:14):
that intimate romantic partnerships often mimic at some level consciously
and unconsciously, what we did and did not receive from
our primary caregiver relationships.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
Well, I'm fucked.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
It's just what it is.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
I'm fucked.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
I hear, I hear you're not, but I hear what
you're saying, and I appreciate your You're surrendered to that,
and so it can be convenient. Sometimes I'm not saying
this is the case for you. I'm just saying this
is the case for and again this is for monogamy
as well. We can hide in monogamy, there's equal don't
don't think I'm this massive proponent of monogamy. I do
have a I lean into that because I've tasted the
(23:54):
value in so many different ways of being in different
containers and being in that can of monogamy and working
and being committed to myself and my own integrity, and
then being committed to unpacking that and what has come
from that, the freedom that is great freedom in that commitment,
great freedom. Side note, though, we can come back to
(24:15):
that as well. So when we're coming from this place
of our intimate relationships really being representative of these core, initial,
big relationships, these dearified relationships that we have as children
that require expansion and healing and redo, that require redo,
but it's unconscious for us. We don't know that it's
(24:35):
a redo. So we bring and attract these people into
our lives that at some level are similar and different,
but also give us what we did not get, which
can be confronting because it's unfamiliar, but also then give
us what is very familiar, which can be hurtful because
it's traumatic. Like violence. For example, we attract violent partners,
and we experience violence growing up, and we don't know
that the reality is it's our nervous systems and our
(24:58):
inner child's are different parts of us that are attending
to have a redo and to be differently with that.
So we can close the internal neurological trauma loop and
move on beyond it, like actually reset and re establish
new patterns again, neurological and behavioral and emotional and relational
ways of being. We don't know that, So what do
we do. We just leave, or we fuck around, We cheat,
(25:23):
we go on big adventures, you know, we work more,
We take drugs, we inject heroin, whatever it is that
distracts us from the pain. And then we blame the
relationship and we blame the person. We say, well, he's
not for me or she's not for me. They've done
this and if they only did that better, then it
would be But we're the common denominators. And so if
we accept that reality, that possible reality around the parent
(25:43):
the parents situation, and the pedestalization of our parents and
the dearification of our parents, and how we unconsciously project
that into our partnerships and they're all opportunities to heal
and change. Then if we stay long enough in healthy
ways with awareness. We both have to have awareness, and
we moved through that stuff and we change our patterns
that no longer service that we don't want, they're actually uncomfortable.
(26:05):
When we get real with it, then we can say, oh,
you know what, at the end of it, if that
person is still not for us, great move on. But
there's something to be said for going deep with one person. Now,
there's also something to be said with managing multiple partners
at the same time, and managing is maybe not the
right word, but or being with, but maybe managing is
the right word. But then that communication that takes place
(26:26):
and a level of honesty that arises from one's depth
and courage that comes from that and speaking your voice
and the ability to set healthy boundaries with multiple people
and multiple person So there's there's value in all of it.
You've got to choose what's right for you. But I
got to ask you, We've got to ask ourselves where's
they come from. Because if we have a belief system that, man,
I just don't want to have the relationship that my
(26:47):
parents have and that every quote unquote monogamous relationship is
going to be like that, and that's not true. That
isn't true that is actually definitely not true. Then, but
if we believe that to be true, we will avoid
that like the plague, and we will make take up everywhere.
Very good at justifying human beings are very good at
justifying your Well, you know I killed that person because
blah blah blah.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
There's always there's always a butz. Thanks to Kimbart's action,
we all always have butts to everything.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
You.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
I feel as though conditioning and whether you are making
up for what was there or not there, or whether
you are trying to do the exact opposite of what
you had are I think classic responses in relationships before
there's some sort of self awareness and boundaries set forward.
(27:45):
But going back to asking if I were the trickster
or the one that was honest from upfront, I have
a hard time because I am honest from upfront. You
also talked about leading into I'm going to piggyback onto this.
You talked about being friends with your exes. You did
(28:06):
a story on your Instagram. You guys, I'm gonna mention
this Instagram every other second. You mentioned a story about
being friends with your exes. And this is something I've
had a major issue with every new guy in my
life because I would say ninety nine percent of my
exes are like my best friends. Like I don't know
what it is. I think when you are able to
(28:28):
be so open and vulnerable with someone, I find it
hard to imagine never talking to them again unless they
you know, there were some real, real damage that has
been done. But too I so for me, I'm you know,
friends with that I and I'm very open from the
beginning to my current partner, I will say, you know,
(28:49):
I have a very close relationship with all of my exes.
I'm also recently going in towards the route of polyamory.
They ask about the polyamory. They love what it sounds
like that they can go out and have you know,
there are others. And then it comes down to but wait,
does that mean you're fucking all your exes? You know so,
(29:11):
and we have that papolium or your side. It's the
same for any relationship dynamic. There's this concept that for
some reason, if X is in your life, you must
be fucking them still because why else would an ex
still be in your life? Right? Well, what's what's the
issue with having an ex in the life? Do you
(29:32):
see an issue with someone having an ex, if they've
been open and honest that this is who they are
from the beginning. Does a person does the partner have
a right to later get jealous and upset?
Speaker 1 (29:44):
I mean to say that anyone has a right to
a B and C is a judgment call, and so
many variables that fit that lead into that. But let
me just answer your first question. Is it wrong to
be friends with you X? Not not at all. It's
not wrong, it's not right. It's not wrong, but it's
definitely not wrong. It's a choice that you make. And
I'm just going to come back to what I said earlier,
what's the come from? So if you're come from is
(30:06):
you know you hate letting people down and you're people pleaser,
or you're insecure, or you don't want people to think
bad of you, and you know that's sort of the
driving force while you're friends with your ex, or you
know you're want of those people that are hopeful and
maybe they'll change, so let me just keep them close
as friends. Or maybe you just really struggle to let
people go because you have a fear of loss. Maybe
you lost a lot of people when you were younger,
(30:26):
maybe your mother or your father, you know, a cousin died,
your brother, whatever it may be, right, and so you
struggle to transition relationship fully. Then in that instance, you
know it's probably not healthy that you're friends with your ex.
If being friends with your ex is still activating old
patterns of behavior that and are not healthy for you
(30:47):
that you want to let gold, but being in that
environment activates them, you're probably not You probably quote unquote
shouldn't be friends with your ex. So you know there's
not a blanket statement never be friends with your ex.
Some people are going to say, look, that time my
life is done. There was intense emotional intimacy and physical
intimacy and I cannot. For me, it's I really struggle
to be friends with Max, so I won't do that.
(31:07):
I personally don't have an issue being friends with my ex,
and I think it's it's it can also be healthy, right,
Like you spent so much we forget that we love
that personal, We cared for that personal, we shared something
deep and profound with that person multiple times during the
course of our relationship. And sometimes again, like if you
struggle to let that go and move on and create
(31:31):
new space in your life and you're occupying your space
with what could be, then maybe you shouldn't be friends
with your X. It's a personal choice. So if you're
being upfront and you're being honest, that's really helpful and
really healthy, right, and you're taking ownership of that.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
But it keeps me very very single. My level of open,
open and honesty is just keeping me single.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
It's keeping me well, yeah, I hear, I hear that,
And I would say that maybe the caliber or the
openness of individual that you're attracting isn't able to meet
your level of honesty. And I'm curious as to why
you think that's occurring.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
Psychologically, I think we exude what we can handle in
our lives emotionally, psychologically, I think I give off, also,
separate from that, a very sexual force of energy to men.
A lot of men because of my bluntness, my openness,
(32:33):
they see that as a sexual desire. So I think
the type of men that I'm attracting are the ones
that are trying to I don't want to say control me,
but I want to say win me, if that makes sense.
And then I get them, and this is where the
trickster comes in. I flip them and within three to
(32:55):
four months, they are saying I love you, and I'm
saying bye bye. It became a game and I started
getting I realized through my self awareness and reflection journey,
I realized I was somehow getting turned on by this
mind fuck. And once I got them, I was so
turned off. They were just the ugliest, dumbest, they were
(33:19):
the worst of everything. And I realized I am a very,
very selfish individual. I'm very self fulfilling and self absorbed.
So I stopped completely being in relationships and I started
reading and reading because I'm a reader, and I started
reading and trying to understand more. And that's when I
came across polyamory and I thought, wow, wow, what a
(33:41):
great way for me to transfer the responsibility of what
I'm supposed to give to a partner and say, just
go fucking get it from someone else.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Just but it's interesting.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
I don't want to give it to you right now.
I can't emotionally give it to you, I can't psychologically.
I'm all about me today, this week, min go fuck off.
So I have a little bit stuck there. I'm like
a cat, you know that one direction they come up
and then when they don't, you'll pull the class out.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
We're going to take a quick break. But when we
come back, and.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
I think your mother lives a lot in your hand
and in your body. Yes, And you took a lot
of what your mother did and how she didn't and
what she said and how she behaved and how she
treated your father and how your father treated her, and
you've locked that in your body, and it's very difficult
for you to not be in control. So most people
(34:38):
get into any relationship because they want to feel a
liveness and intimacy and expansion and vulnerability and activation physically
and emotionally. Right whether you're in a non monogamous or
monogamous relationship, that's really one of the biggest rereads, some
of the big reasons that we get into relationship to
explore the unknown within ourselves and within that person, to
(34:58):
create something and creates some thing that is unique, unique
energetic and physical signature between us. It's interesting that you
said you give off this big sexual energy. Yet for you,
one of the reasons that you're in a polyamorous dynamic
where you choose that is because you don't want to
have sex often, or you don't want to have sex
(35:19):
so can you talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
Sure, I'm a walking oxymoron pretty much. If I just
sort of just sum it up for you right there.
I think there's a lot of insecurity involved. I'll be
honest with you, absolutely absolutely, there is this dynamic of
me wanting to be everything that I feel I can be,
(35:43):
but this suppression that I have been conditioned to, and
I'm so scared to tiptoe sometimes on the other side
because God forbid, I'm doing it wrong. And now I
have shown the wrong type of vulnerability and I wouldn't
know how to backtrack, So now I just have to
get rid of the person. So it's just I think insecurity.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
That's great awareness, And I agree with you. And I
think your mother lives a lot in your head and
in your body. Yes, And you took a lot of
what your mother did and how she did it, and
what she said and how she behaved and how she
treated your father and how your father treated her, and
you've locked that in your body, and it's very difficult
for you to not be in control. And being in
(36:27):
control helps you feel safe your nervous system in all
parts of you, and it's very difficult to surrender and
be in the mystery, which is a beautiful feminine exploration
if you're not feeling safe and you need control, and
we will find all the different ways that we can control.
And so there's are parts of you that really want
(36:47):
to explore deepened sexual intimacy and union, yet are terrified
of that because of maybe what they'll ask of you
in return, not in return as in exchange, but what
will happen as a result of that. And there's a
deepening And if there's a deepening, then there's a connection,
there's a needing to be present and that will take
away from your quote unquote selfishness or self absorption. And
(37:10):
there's so much magic and just that there what you said,
like that pattern of being selfish or where does that
really come from? What have you witnessed and seen in
your life and what voices or belief systems are living
in your being that have you needing to be selfish
and push people away? And there's nothing wrong with having
space in your own time. That's actually a really healthy thing.
But in your words, you know, self absorbed and selfish.
(37:32):
So there's a lot here, Gigi to unpack, like a lot. Yeah,
and I think yeah, parts of you. I love your
fucking honesty, by the way you are. You're a boss.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
Thank you. Yeah, that's the problem, is right, it's the
second stuff hard doing something about it.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Well, that's that's where you need to be surrounded by
safe people, right, whether the intimate partners, friends, coaches, you know,
people that you're working with to help you actually experience
moving beyond the known into the unknown and then learning
how to come back and regulate yourself and having real
life experiences of oh, I didn't die, then they didn't
(38:11):
kill me, I didn't get hurt, or maybe I can
go a little further into the unknown. And this is
we're relational beings. We can't do it by ourselves. We're
not meant to do it by ourselves. That's not that's
not what we're made like. One of the reasons that
we've evolved in the way that we have as a
species and as a humanity in modernity is because of
our complex social structures. It's not just our prefrontal cortex
(38:35):
brain development or linguistics coming into play, or the discovery
of psychotropic substances that enhance our consciousness. And you know
that eating meat and all that and fire and all that.
That's all part of it. But our complex social structures
and the way that we've evolved in relational union has
elevated our ability to accelerate modern technologies and adaptations and
(38:56):
creativity in the external world. So we need each other.
You're sitting on a chair right now. You have a microphone,
like you have all these things. You're in relationship with,
all these things that make this experience possible in relationship.
When I'm a relationship coach, I'm not just talking about
sexual and intimate union, which relationship to everything. So I
would say you have a lot of awareness you hide,
(39:19):
and you also amplified by your intellect, which is not
a good or bad thing, just something that is right,
and you're safe in your intellect. There are other components
to your being, such as being in your body and
having your nervous system move towards something that feels unknown
and maybe a little unsafe, but in very methodical, stable ways,
(39:40):
and that is the next step for you, and I
believe believe. I mean I could be wrong, but that's
what I believe. And also just hearing you speak and
hearing what you also design, and being very aware of
your traits, being aware of how you push people away,
and you know the I'm a living oxymoron. I you know,
walking contradiction right like most of us are. But you're
very aware of that, and so that's going to be
(40:01):
very confusing for people. But you also go to then
attract a person that is meeting you in that confusion.
So you're attracting unhealthy people, which is reinforce immature people.
That is reinforcing the belief of fuck, I don't need
a man, and I just be better off by myself,
and I can't trust in relationship and I can't go
(40:22):
deep with anyone, so fuck it, why not, I'll just
do polyamory, right.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
I mean, that's sort of that's That's exactly where I'm
at right now, and it's just it hasn't really changed anything,
because I know it's within me that needs to. I
need to change what's going on and I need to
start seeing things through a different set of eyes. But
I need to get the tools first, because I'm stuck.
(40:46):
You know, Like I said, I am so open and
I always have been my whole life. I think all
of us out there we should always be open to growth.
It's very imperative for us as as a world, world
as a whole entity. Is the world to evolve and
grow and keep looking towards the positivity and happiness and love.
(41:09):
And I mean I would I would love to love.
I would love to love. I would love to experience
a heartbreak. I want to feel that. I want to
when I see my friends hurt, crying because they just
got their hearts broken, I want to touch that. I
really want to know what that feels like. I want
to feel all of it. And I mean, here I am.
(41:33):
I'm talking to the best when it comes to this.
So here's what I want to say, because I feel
very selfish. I don't normally make I just told the
whole world I'm fucking selfish, So okay, of course I
feel selfish right now. I don't normally make a whole
episode about myself. I usually try to just you know,
stick to a specific topic and just let people learn
(41:56):
about what we're talking about. But I wanted to take
advantage of speaking with you, and I feel like it's
very relatable to many different relationship dynamics that are out
there that people are going through. You know, we re
experience things differently and we put different names to them. Polyamory, straight, gay,
you know three, You can name it whatever you want.
(42:17):
But the ultimate thing is I think everybody wants to
be loved. Everybody wants to feel loved and appreciate it.
And I would love to continue coursework with you. I mean,
if that's an option, if I could sign up, go
through your website, I know lots of people would want
to do something like this. Is that where people would
go to be able to sign up to get coaching?
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, firstly yes, And I'll explain a little
more on that in a moment. But let me just
can ask you a question. Sure, absolutely, if a man
said to you when you were pushing him away, don't
wry the dynamic or the container is monogamy, no moment
doesn't know, but you know you're pushing him away, and
he said, Hey, I'm not actually going anywhere, I'm not
(43:00):
going to stalk here or anything like that, but I'm
here with you. I see that some stuff's coming up.
What do you need from me? Has a man ever
I asked you that or said that to you?
Speaker 3 (43:10):
Now, nobody in my life has ever asked me that,
except a therapist, which I pee to ask me those
type of questions. So again, I grew up in a
family that if you talk about your emotions, you're considered emotional,
and it's why not logically, everything will be fine, you'll
figure it out. So no, I've never been asked by
(43:33):
a partner man.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
So there's a little girl inside of you, your little
girl that still thinks that if I am intellectual and
I stay in the mind and I'm highly cognitive, that
I will have mum and Dad's life and maybe they
won't fight, and maybe they love each other a little more.
And these are the irrational, unconscious parts of us that
require deeper healing and expansion in order to move beyond,
(43:59):
you know, the type of individuals that we're attracting, but
also the life that we're living. And so the reason
why I ask you that question is because I want
to help you understand that there are men out there
that aren't going to be in secure and desperate and
needy and fucking seek control or whatever, and they're going
(44:19):
to actually sit with you and be calm, slow down
their voice, and say, hey, I really care for you,
and I'm really boundaried, like if you don't want me,
I'm not going to choose you and I'm not that
going to I'm not going to give up that easier
because I see and I'm not trying to analyze you,
but I just see that there's something else here. So
(44:39):
if you want to do this thing with me and
explore it, I'll go here with you. What do you
need from me? How can I support you? And let
me tell you what I would need from you. And
if that's something that you can do, Hey, you need
some space, cool, take it. Let's reconvene in a week
or a few days. If you continue this behavior, I
can't be in. But if you wanted something different, then
I'm happy to explore that with you. You're only going
(45:00):
to attract men like that when you really go deeper
within yourself and you surrender to there's something on the
other side of me being different to how I've been.
I don't know what that is, but I'm willing to explore.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
Can I ask you a question on that?
Speaker 1 (45:15):
Of course?
Speaker 3 (45:16):
Do you believe it's rubbish if I were to say
in this city it's impossible to find a amount of
quality in Los Angeles.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
It's not rubbish for you to say that, And that
belief is dictating what you're seeing, and that's the beta
Mindhoff effect. You're familiar with that terminology.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
I am very familiar with that. I'm using forty one before,
not for thirty years experience of you know, So it's.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
Yeah, that's why I said it's not rubbish, right, because
but also, wherever you go, you take yourself with you,
and you take your patterns with you. So are there
physical environments that are more conducive to the man that
you would like to attract? Absolutely? Is Los Angeles a
bit of a cesspool in my opinion, A fucking lutely.
Speaker 3 (46:04):
I just wanted to hear you say that. I wanted
to make sure I'm not losing my fucking mind because
it's very hard to think quality in a city that's
based off materialism.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
Yeah, yeah, I hear that it's impossible. It's impossible, Well
you used to living, yes, yeah, so it's and I
know many I know many some great men that live
in Los Angeles as well, that are doing their inner
work too, right, But again, wherever you go, wherever we go,
we take ourselves with us, and so again bring it
(46:38):
back into you. You start venturing into these unknown spaces
within yourself. I tell you you're going to start seeing
the world very differently, Promise you that.
Speaker 3 (46:45):
It's time to pull out some wind decks and clear
my vision a little bit over here. I want to
wipe these little bad boys out. Everything you're saying, I
I identify with it, I feel it within myself. There's
a reason that the insecurity is more powerful still than
everything that I'm understanding.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
Yeah. Yeah, And even even the way you speak about
the insecurity, right, there's a almost like a disassociation to it,
like there's there's almost there's an emotion that wants to
come through you, that wants to break down and be
even deeper vulnerable, but you can't. Like you speak about
the insecurity and you're very clear on it, yet your
body's shut down to it. And that's the part that's missing, right,
(47:26):
And it's not And this isn't a criticism at all.
Please please hand on harder.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
Promise No, this is one hundred percent factual.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
Yeah, and it's and it's it's it's I really would
love that part or that part of you to come
through and be felt and just fucking release and be
open and oh man, and.
Speaker 3 (47:43):
I would love that, you know, Stepan is so funny
you say that to me, because if you were to
ask the people who know me, they think that I
am the most open book, and as I managed to
remain the most open book that no one knows anything about,
because as I can talk about myself and third party
as if I'm revealing things, yet I'm not revealing anything
(48:07):
at all. Right, they said, Oh, she she knows she's vulnerable.
That's great of her. She knows her Oh great, Wait
wait that's just the surface. Wait wait, wait, nobody has
cared to do that. So I appreciate you because you're
allowing me and a lot of other men and women
(48:28):
out there to believe that it's possible that it could
be possible to find a partner that can identify and
understand with themselves so deeply that they are not misguided
or challenged wrongly by the person in front of them.
You know. So I like that.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
Yeah, I like that too, and I like that you're
you know you're aware.
Speaker 3 (48:52):
Of Thank you and thank you so much for being here.
And please tell me where what can everyone do and
if they would love some coaching, some you know work?
Do you want to do self work? I know you do.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
So.
Speaker 3 (49:04):
Your website is amazing and FYI ecology. That is the
coolest thing in the world. Hello, that's amazing. Yeah, I
can study the ecology. Sorry off subjects, but that was
pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
I thoughttle bit of.
Speaker 3 (49:17):
What I forgot the name of this and I was
trying to remember it the last time I was recording
the podcast. What is the name of someone who's sexually
aroused by someone's brain SAPO sexual. Yes, that's what I am.
I am very like that of CPO sexual.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
Yeah, I'm also No, I'm not just a safer sect.
Some people are just it's physicality zero. I'm sort of
all of it for me personally. Yeah. Yeah, so yeah
you can you can find me. So in reference to
this conversation, I have an Inner Child course Level one,
level two, highly accessible on my website stephanosfandos dot com.
(49:56):
You'll find all my courses and programs and service offerings there.
But in a i'll level one and level two, and
there's a relationship course on their intensive Beautiful Heart opening
courses to help you understand yourself learn at your own pace.
We also teach in a Child live by the way,
the next live one will be in twenty twenty three
at some point. Yeah, I do so if you want
(50:18):
to coach with me in one on one capacity, you
can access that through my website. Otherwise, work sorry coach
with Steph dot com. STF coach with Steph dot com
and you can access one on one coaching and something
that I do for women. I have a number of
different programs for women. Be the Queen is one of them,
but breath Work for the Feminine every month here in Austin,
(50:38):
and I will be traveling with this as well in
twenty twenty three, but every month here in Austin. We
just did our first one. I did my first one
a couple of days ago. There were eighty women there
and it was beautiful and it's a three hour immersive experience.
We go deep in a relationship coaching, dating dynamics, Masculine Feminine.
Breath Works somatically releasing next month's theme. It's November, not
(50:59):
Octo only because I'm away is trust already selling a
lot of tickets for that in person, but I also
live stream it so it doesn't matter where you are
in the world. You can access that. And that's stefanosfandos
dot com, slash Feminine and all the details and then
you can get your tickets there as well.
Speaker 3 (51:17):
I love that and it's amazing what you do. Thank
you for being open with yourself so much and so
self aware that you're able to be this confident being
that has been able to just help so many people
understand themselves, because it really truly comes down to just
(51:38):
first understanding who we are and our value and our
worth because we're here for such a short period of time,
and you know, we were just saying everyone wants to
be loved and everyone wants to love. So I thank
you so much. I have a lot of things I
would love to reflect on from this conversation, and I
would definitely love to do some coursework. I mean, November
(51:59):
is my birthday month, so I would probably love to
treat myself with your course. So thank you so much
again for being here. Stefanos.
Speaker 1 (52:07):
Thank you. I appreciate you very much as well.
Speaker 2 (52:10):
Thanks for listening to Genuinely Gigi. Download new episodes every
week and if you haven't already, subscribe and be sure
to leave us a rating and review. And while you're
at it, check out some of the other great shows
available on straw Hut Media.
Straw Hut Media.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
You know her from Shaws of Sunset. You know she
doesn't hold back.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
I grew up in an environment that as a woman,
I was told be a man, be powerful like a man.
If a man can do it, you can.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
This is genuinely gig.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Everybody, please welcome Stefanos, sufandus. Welcome to genuinely Gigi. To
welcome Gigi to genuinely welcome stuff, and thank you for
being here.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Yeah, thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
I'm excited. Where are you located right now?
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Boston, Texas?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
I live in Austin, Austin, Texas. That's nice. Have you
always lived there in Austin?
Speaker 1 (00:44):
No, we were in my wife's Americans, So we were
in California, Southern California first and then North County San Diego,
and then we moved here. She has family here and
I just got to hit to be here a couple
of years ago to the end of twenty nineteen, and
it just felt like the right move. So it has been.
It's been great for us to be And I miss
the ocean. On an ocean baby, are you me too?
Speaker 3 (01:04):
I'm a coastal baby. I grew up in Plia, Del Rey,
and Palas Verdies. I lived in Plaid del Ray for
a few years and then my parents moved to Palace
Vardies and they still have a house out there. So
I'm definitely a beach baby. But I've been living in
the valley, which I swore on my whole life. I
would never, you know, be in the valley. Here, I
am in the valley and obsessed with the valley. It
(01:28):
just goes to show never set limits on yourself.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Right, Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
I would like to let everybody know, Stef who knows
is a you are a relationship coach? Correct?
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yeah, amidst many other.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Things, yes, many many other things. That your website is
amazing makes me want to pick your brain even more.
Anytime I see an intellectual, I get very, very very
interested to pick their brain. So I'm really excited to
have you here and hopefully answer some questions that myself
and a lot of people out there come across. You know,
(02:03):
I love your Instagram page. You guys have to follow him.
Your Instagram's amazing. It is so relatable. It's not cheesy
because people think relationship coach. Why he's probably always talking
about love and falling in love and it's just not
like that because everyone knows me. I'm really I can't
stand that type of approach. I love your genuinity and
(02:27):
your honesty that it's sometimes the woman is fucking up
and sometimes it's the man who fucks up. You know,
it's just about your level of honesty and understanding of situations.
So I would love if I can start off by
asking you a question about my life personally, and I
would love to see what your approach would be on
(02:48):
hearing a short story.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, okay, go for.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
It in November, which is like a month from now.
I'll be forty one years old, so just keep age
and times and whatnot in mind. I was born and
raised in la and I grew up with very progressive
parents from Iran. They came here way before the revolution,
but obviously, you know, dealt with the revolution. Just very
(03:14):
progressive parents. My parents did not want me to affiliate
my life around just Persian people as my culture is.
They wanted me to expand my mind and allow myself
to be a part of anything. My life sort of
drifted on this way, but with a very progressive mother.
In the eighties was feminism. Feminism was a huge, huge,
(03:38):
movement in the eighties, and I remember being little and
being sort of embarrassed because I thought my mother was
a lesbian, and I thought, maybe my dad just doesn't
realize this, or maybe this is the agreement, you know,
I was. I didn't know. My mother was always saying
to me, don't rely on a man to do anything
(03:58):
for you. You can do it. If a guy can do it,
you can. You don't need a husband. Why do you
need a husband to take care of you? Know, you
take care of yourself. Very early on, this was my mentality.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
She was married to your father though at this time.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
My father was very ego alpha and my mother was
very ego alpha. So I grew up in a very
hostile alpha environment and I was a tomboy. I hated
wearing dresses. I didn't have Barbie dolls. I remember one
time someone got me one for my birthday. On accident,
my sister and I chopped its head off and flushed
(04:35):
it in the toilet, you know. And then dating came around,
and I believed I had to be this alpha right
because that's what mommy told me and that's what Daddy portrays.
So I began emasculating every man I was in a
relationship with every single man because of my ego and
(04:56):
partially because of my conditioning.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Right.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
I grew up in an environment that as a woman,
I was told be a man, be powerful like a man.
If a man can do it, you can. That was
my mentality. Here I am today, almost forty one years old,
I can't say I've ever been in love.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Do you yearn to feel that love that you speak of?
Speaker 3 (05:20):
I wouldn't know. I think if I had touched it before,
to know what it feels like, I would yearn for it.
I look at movies and hear stories and I think,
is that real like or am I ever going to
feel something like that? Or is this just all written?
And everyone in reality is chasing a movie concept? So
(05:43):
I have no sense of romance in my mind. I
have now chosen at the age of forty one, I
chose a sperm donor to have a baby because I
can't imagine being attached to a man. And now I
am choosing the route of polyamory because I realized the
honesty with myself was I cannot be stuck to one
(06:07):
man and be the responsibility of one man. I have
developed into this. I would say, now, what would be
your outlook on hearing this little short snippet forty one
years of my life with men? Would you say I've
reached polyamory due to my alpha ego past and being conditioned,
(06:31):
or do you think I have evolved and realized maybe
my issue was I was trying to conform into a
society that was like a Hollywood movie that I'm supposed
to fall in love and find the one, and you know,
White Picket Fence and that whole fairy tale.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Well, the observation that I would make is that the
opposite of polyamory or non monogamy isn't necessarily monogamy, but
you haven't necessarily given yourself a chance to surrender fully
to being in an intimate union. Because I think what
I observe and what you've seen in your own life
growing up is a broken or broken examples of a
(07:12):
marriage or a union or an intimate relationship. There you've
got your mother saying, don't be with a man, you
do it or yourself. Whatever men can do, you can do.
Yet she remains with your father. It's very confusing for
a child. Number one, Then you've got two parents that
are fighting for control. And pole position in a relationship,
not really meeting each other's needs, not hearing each other,
(07:34):
being insensitive to each other, and then you growing up
with that and having very strong, strong voices. And so
when you've entered relationship, you've either entered relationship pursuing what's familiar,
so very similar dynamics that reinforce the belief that, well,
I'm probably going to be by myself, or I can't
really find a man that's going to be able to
meet me where I'm at, or you've attracted relationships where
(07:58):
you've dominated those relationships which haven't been fulfilling for you.
So to say that you've arrived at polyamory because that's
a natural progression for you, I would say that's not
the case. There's nothing wrong with polyamories. There's nothing wrong
or right with monogamy or non monogamy or any relationship
container that you desire to be in or anyone desires
(08:18):
to be. What is either healthy or unhealthy, or suitable
or unsuitable is how we arrive at that container. And so,
to be very direct with you, how I think you've
arrived at that container is that there's been parts of
you and parts of your nervous system that are too
scared to surrender to what love could be. And let
me tell you what love isn't. Love is not the
(08:39):
Disney fairy tale white picket fence version. That is not
a love per se. That is an idealistic example. And
look for some maybe that's what it is, right, but
it's an idealistic example that is often out of reach
because what it presupposes is that there is no history
in the individual, There is no wounding in the individual,
(09:00):
there is no trauma in the individual. There is perfection
in the individuals that are coming together. And it shows
just one shade or aspect or expression of the dynamic
of the relationship. And it confuses us because we think
that's how it should be all the time. So the
moment a relationship breaks down or there's conflict or there's
an argument or the difficulty, we just go, well, this
is not for me, and we don't have the tools
(09:20):
to actually deal with the conflict, because again, you would
have just witnessed your parents and there would have been
part of you saying fuck this, I don't want to
have this relationship that my parents have, right, And Mum's
always saying AB and C so I'm just going to
go do that. And so you know you have needs,
you have physical needs, sexual needs, and so you're potentially
meeting them through polyamory. But you've got to ask yourself
where's that coming from. Is it to keep men at
(09:40):
an emotional distance because you don't trust men, or you're
not sure that or you want more control, or you
just don't believe in the possibility of intimate union of
a vulnerable exchange or a series of vulnerable exchanges that
lead to surrender and receiving and you being different and
you're opening your heart in such a way where you
can love. Because I would say that for you to
do that, you would need to feel really, really safe
(10:02):
in your body. And polyamory or non monogamy or multiple
sexual partners, there's at times a delusion of intimacy because
there's a lack of depth. Now again, if to come
from is from a really open, sincere place, you can
have depth with multiple people. Absolutely you can. You've got
to determine where it's really coming from. Again, if I
(10:23):
was going to give an observation, I would say, you
haven't given yourself permission or allowance to explore that. And
if you have the moment that it's gone a little
too difficult, or it's gotten uncomfortable, or it's reminded you
of something very unpleasant from growing up. You've just pushed
it away and you haven't been able to go over
the hump and work through that. Right? Does that I mean,
does that resonate for you? Or is that? Am I
(10:45):
completely off?
Speaker 3 (10:46):
It does resonate? Does it resonate with me? As far
as something that was as existent for me? I do
believe I got myself through a lot of hurdles through relationships,
from being in very long relationships that were about three
and a half four years each and to going to
only dating a guy for three four months. And as
(11:08):
soon as I heard him say I love you, I ran,
you know, and I learned.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
What does that tell you about yourself?
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Well, well, that's the thing, because I do a lot
of self healing. I believe in self healing at every
moment of your life. I'm a very logical person. Maybe
too logical. It gets the best of me. So my
issue is I wouldn't I wouldn't call it an issue.
Let me take that back. My reservation comes with my
(11:35):
concept of human adaptation. Human adaptation we have the ability
as humans to readapt so fast. And we see that
with since we're speaking of love, we see that with love, lust, heartbreak. Right,
you see how fast people are capable of actually getting
(11:56):
over something.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
I'll poise you there for a moment, pose you there
for a moment. Yes, And and most people don't get
over or they don't move through. They don't learn the lessons,
they don't actually heal. And healing isn't a logical there's
an aspect of narrative cognition logic that comes with healing,
but it's a very small part. The rest is really
done through the nervous system sematically. But when it comes
(12:21):
to getting over, most people suppress and repress. They don't
actually heal that experience. They don't actually grieve that experience
because it's too intense, and they stuff down emotions and
think that they're over it or think that they've moved
through it, but they have not. And that's true for
the majority of us.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
I agree with that. I agree with that, and I
agree that that is the majority of US. I believe
that was me at one point in my life where
I was severely hurt in relationships or within the home,
or whatnot, and it was supassed and later came out
it as an explosion somewhere else, which led me into
(13:00):
a very long journey, never ending journey of self discovery.
For me, I believe I've reached a point in my
life with my logic that I can somehow control it,
and I can now somehow attach emotions to it and
understand what it is, why this is making me sad.
(13:21):
And I love to give myself about a week to
two weeks of isolation sometimes whatever I need to do,
if I need to be off in nature, if I
need to leave the country and just be wherever I
feel my soul is taking me in that moment, and
I reflect, I reflect, I take myself through it. I cry,
I mourn, I laugh, I giggle, you know what I mean,
(13:45):
And then I talk myself through it. I am very
self aware, which bothers me oftentimes when I see most
of my friends my girlfriends, that they have a hard
time accessing this part of themselves because sometimes emotions are
so busy taking over that they can't see the logic
(14:06):
of what they're going through and understanding it. For me,
it is it's easier for me to sort of just
move on and get past. My polyamory journey is completely
separate from sexuality and needs of sexuality. I'm not a
very sexual person and that's probably why another reason why
I chose polyamory, it was becoming very difficult for me
(14:30):
to have a man rely on me for his sexual
needs and desires. And when you're in a relationship and
you're not giving that to someone right that the rumor
is that they go out and cheat right or if
you're with a good guy, he just leaves you and says,
this relationship is no longer fulfilling me completely. So I
(14:52):
sort of put that rule up, and now you post
it something again on your Instagram. I love your Instagram.
You said there's four types of people in relationship.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
The four types of people when you're dating the trickster.
This person is the manipulator. This person is going to
pretend there's someone but they are not. Number two, the
show boter. They are arrogant, not confident. They care more
about how they look and the things that they do
than you and the relationship. Number three the straight shoot.
(15:22):
This person's direct with you. They are honest, they know
who they are, they're aware, they're self aware and they
care about your feelings. And number four, the confused. They
don't know what the fuck they want. They are super confused.
They think they want to date, they don't. They want
to be in a relationship, they don't.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
I felt I identified with two of the tapes. I
felt like I identified with the trickster as well as
the one who knows exactly what they want. Yes, so
I'm trying to find some balance between them because they
sound completely opposite from each other, and I'm like, wait,
why am I identifying with both?
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yeah? I mean that's a great point. So two things
that come to me that I would like to share
very very upfront. So the first is our journeys are
our own and how we arrive at the decisions we arrive. Yes,
can sometimes be improved and other times it's just our journeys.
And so no one has the right to tell us, oh,
(16:18):
you should be doing this or you could be doing that.
And here's the thing that we can look at some
of the reasons and the patterns that you've developed as
a child moving into adoleste, through adolescence and into adulth
that have you arriving at the decisions you've made today.
You know, for example, I don't hear that it's difficult
for you to access emotions. I hear that you're very
deliberate in the way that you access your emotional body.
(16:41):
And I think you've learned that over time and probably
and I don't know if there was a lot of
emotion in your family dynamic, maybe there was none.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
No, there's none. Very stressed emotionally my family. I'm the
emotional one of the family, and for some reason that
makes me the bad one.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
So because emotions can be seen as a threat, they
can be seen as volatile. You mentioned the word control,
and we can come back to that. I'm curious where
control plays a role in your life, but we can
come back to that. But the other thing that I
that I wanted to say was that you know, the
reality is that when we come to choosing to be
(17:19):
in a kind of relationship container that suits us, often
you know, what we're doing is experimenting. We're trying things on. Yes,
you know, and there's nothing wrong with that. And you
knowing yourself, you knowing that being a physically sexual being
is not something that is a priority or a focus
(17:39):
on for you, and knowing that that can be for
others and then choosing this polyamorous relationship container route so
that those individuals can have an outlet or be satisfied
or experience that with others, but you can experience maybe
the emotional intimacy or companionship or whatever it is. Right,
that's a sure way to look at relationships. So there's
(18:02):
this again. I won't be really clear. There's no right
or wrong here. What's really important for us is that
we just I mean examine the you know, feeling, to
examine sit with what's our come from? So is our
come from from a place of compensation or shadow or
pain or fear and we're in avoidance of something, or
(18:22):
is our come from from genuine curiosity? Because when we're curious,
we're opening our body posture in our nervous systems. We're
not coming from trapped trauma. We're not coming from a retracted,
fearful state. And you can check in with your body
like you can check in like am I tense and nervous?
Am I? Am I feeling pressure in my chest? Am I?
Am I feeling anxious and restless? Because if that's the
(18:44):
energy that your choices are coming from, chances are it's
coming from a repressed or suppressed place that isn't really
authentic to who you're actually wanting to be.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
We're going to take a quick break. But when we
come back.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Everyone says to me with polyamory, oh you know, they
make a face. You don't worry. You'll find the right
one and you'll see this is all just a joke.
And I get so upset. I want to you know,
I want to scream at them because I said, well,
what the fuck is the right one?
Speaker 1 (19:18):
And when I say you, I'm not just speaking to you,
I'm too, I'm speaking to it, all of us.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
I agree. It's uh, suppression breeds resentment. It's it's very inevitable.
A lot of the times I think we see in
relationships when people are either gay and suppressing that, you know,
the relationships turn violent. Sometimes when people are just emotionally
(19:45):
unstable in relationships. I see so many relationships, marriages, whatnot,
and in divorce, and I've always just had this notion
I don't believe in marriage because we are human. Again,
I go back to my logic, which I hate. We're
humans and we are learning to readopt ourselves, and it's
(20:06):
impossible for two people to stay completely in sync in
their journey of healing and growing and experiencing and remaining
constant for each other. That's what my logic, for some
reason tells me, and the other part of me says,
but no, that that can't be true, because I have
(20:28):
family and I have best friends that have been in
my life for thirty five years and they've remained constant.
We just understand boundaries and the dynamic of these relationships,
which I don't think society easily allows us to place
these extra labels on, you know, intimate relationships, because then
(20:49):
there's something wrong with you. Everyone says to me with polyamory,
oh you know, they make a face. Oh, you don't worry.
You'll find the right one and you'll see this is
all just a joke. And I get so upset. I
want to you know, I want to scream with them
because I said, well, what the fuck is the right one?
(21:10):
What does that mean? Can you tell us what is this?
What is this concept? The one?
Speaker 1 (21:17):
I love the way you ask the question?
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Mind you? Can I tell you? My producers? Right, you
just came back from his honeymoon having this conversation. I
love you Ryan.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
That Oh my god, So you know going deep with
one person. So there's something I'm let me answer it
in a couple of different ways as supposed to direct.
Let me answer in a symbolic way, just to tap
into different areas of out thinking and mind and being.
So there is something that comes with knowing that you
(21:49):
were committed to each other in a very particular way,
because it doesn't leave room for the convenient escape. Now
I'm just going to caveat something for a moment. I'm
not not non monogamy. I am an advocate of multiple
different types of relationship containers, including non monogamous ones. I
(22:09):
really truly am. Depends on the individuals and so many
other factors that feed into that. I told you earlier,
I shared with you earlier. What I'm more a proponent
of is what's the come from? Get fucking real with
you come from? Don't bullshit yourself. Pause that, let me
come back. There's something deep, there's something profound that happens
when or there's a depth that occurs that excavates parts
(22:33):
of self that come through when there is a commitment
to be with that person. So in previous relationships, for me,
when I was in monogamous relationships, they went monogamous for
me because I was cheating. Now, I was cheating, meaning
that I was going beyond the boundaries and the agreements
that we had in the relationships. So I had convenient
escape routes when the pain in the relationship got too much,
(22:54):
instead of dealing with it in mature, healthy ways, I
would find pleasure. Escape roots greater the pain, the greater
the pleasure. Now, our intimate You said something earlier about
friends and family that are constant in my life, So
you know that you know, constant in intimate relationship. It
can be possible. The pain point or the difficulty is
(23:14):
that intimate romantic partnerships often mimic at some level consciously
and unconsciously, what we did and did not receive from
our primary caregiver relationships.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
Well, I'm fucked.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
It's just what it is.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
I'm fucked.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
I hear, I hear you're not, but I hear what
you're saying, and I appreciate your You're surrendered to that,
and so it can be convenient. Sometimes I'm not saying
this is the case for you. I'm just saying this
is the case for and again this is for monogamy
as well. We can hide in monogamy, there's equal don't
don't think I'm this massive proponent of monogamy. I do
have a I lean into that because I've tasted the
(23:54):
value in so many different ways of being in different
containers and being in that can of monogamy and working
and being committed to myself and my own integrity, and
then being committed to unpacking that and what has come
from that, the freedom that is great freedom in that commitment,
great freedom. Side note, though, we can come back to
(24:15):
that as well. So when we're coming from this place
of our intimate relationships really being representative of these core, initial,
big relationships, these dearified relationships that we have as children
that require expansion and healing and redo, that require redo,
but it's unconscious for us. We don't know that it's
(24:35):
a redo. So we bring and attract these people into
our lives that at some level are similar and different,
but also give us what we did not get, which
can be confronting because it's unfamiliar, but also then give
us what is very familiar, which can be hurtful because
it's traumatic. Like violence. For example, we attract violent partners,
and we experience violence growing up, and we don't know
that the reality is it's our nervous systems and our
(24:58):
inner child's are different parts of us that are attending
to have a redo and to be differently with that.
So we can close the internal neurological trauma loop and
move on beyond it, like actually reset and re establish
new patterns again, neurological and behavioral and emotional and relational
ways of being. We don't know that, So what do
we do. We just leave, or we fuck around, We cheat,
(25:23):
we go on big adventures, you know, we work more,
We take drugs, we inject heroin, whatever it is that
distracts us from the pain. And then we blame the
relationship and we blame the person. We say, well, he's
not for me or she's not for me. They've done
this and if they only did that better, then it
would be But we're the common denominators. And so if
we accept that reality, that possible reality around the parent
(25:43):
the parents situation, and the pedestalization of our parents and
the dearification of our parents, and how we unconsciously project
that into our partnerships and they're all opportunities to heal
and change. Then if we stay long enough in healthy
ways with awareness. We both have to have awareness, and
we moved through that stuff and we change our patterns
that no longer service that we don't want, they're actually uncomfortable.
(26:05):
When we get real with it, then we can say, oh,
you know what, at the end of it, if that
person is still not for us, great move on. But
there's something to be said for going deep with one person. Now,
there's also something to be said with managing multiple partners
at the same time, and managing is maybe not the
right word, but or being with, but maybe managing is
the right word. But then that communication that takes place
(26:26):
and a level of honesty that arises from one's depth
and courage that comes from that and speaking your voice
and the ability to set healthy boundaries with multiple people
and multiple person So there's there's value in all of it.
You've got to choose what's right for you. But I
got to ask you, We've got to ask ourselves where's
they come from. Because if we have a belief system that, man,
I just don't want to have the relationship that my
(26:47):
parents have and that every quote unquote monogamous relationship is
going to be like that, and that's not true. That
isn't true that is actually definitely not true. Then, but
if we believe that to be true, we will avoid
that like the plague, and we will make take up everywhere.
Very good at justifying human beings are very good at
justifying your Well, you know I killed that person because
blah blah blah.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
There's always there's always a butz. Thanks to Kimbart's action,
we all always have butts to everything.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
You.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
I feel as though conditioning and whether you are making
up for what was there or not there, or whether
you are trying to do the exact opposite of what
you had are I think classic responses in relationships before
there's some sort of self awareness and boundaries set forward.
(27:45):
But going back to asking if I were the trickster
or the one that was honest from upfront, I have
a hard time because I am honest from upfront. You
also talked about leading into I'm going to piggyback onto this.
You talked about being friends with your exes. You did
(28:06):
a story on your Instagram. You guys, I'm gonna mention
this Instagram every other second. You mentioned a story about
being friends with your exes. And this is something I've
had a major issue with every new guy in my
life because I would say ninety nine percent of my
exes are like my best friends. Like I don't know
what it is. I think when you are able to
(28:28):
be so open and vulnerable with someone, I find it
hard to imagine never talking to them again unless they
you know, there were some real, real damage that has
been done. But too I so for me, I'm you know,
friends with that I and I'm very open from the
beginning to my current partner, I will say, you know,
(28:49):
I have a very close relationship with all of my exes.
I'm also recently going in towards the route of polyamory.
They ask about the polyamory. They love what it sounds
like that they can go out and have you know,
there are others. And then it comes down to but wait,
does that mean you're fucking all your exes? You know so,
(29:11):
and we have that papolium or your side. It's the
same for any relationship dynamic. There's this concept that for
some reason, if X is in your life, you must
be fucking them still because why else would an ex
still be in your life? Right? Well, what's what's the
issue with having an ex in the life? Do you
(29:32):
see an issue with someone having an ex, if they've
been open and honest that this is who they are
from the beginning. Does a person does the partner have
a right to later get jealous and upset?
Speaker 1 (29:44):
I mean to say that anyone has a right to
a B and C is a judgment call, and so
many variables that fit that lead into that. But let
me just answer your first question. Is it wrong to
be friends with you X? Not not at all. It's
not wrong, it's not right. It's not wrong, but it's
definitely not wrong. It's a choice that you make. And
I'm just going to come back to what I said earlier,
what's the come from? So if you're come from is
(30:06):
you know you hate letting people down and you're people pleaser,
or you're insecure, or you don't want people to think
bad of you, and you know that's sort of the
driving force while you're friends with your ex, or you
know you're want of those people that are hopeful and
maybe they'll change, so let me just keep them close
as friends. Or maybe you just really struggle to let
people go because you have a fear of loss. Maybe
you lost a lot of people when you were younger,
(30:26):
maybe your mother or your father, you know, a cousin died,
your brother, whatever it may be, right, and so you
struggle to transition relationship fully. Then in that instance, you
know it's probably not healthy that you're friends with your ex.
If being friends with your ex is still activating old
patterns of behavior that and are not healthy for you
(30:47):
that you want to let gold, but being in that
environment activates them, you're probably not You probably quote unquote
shouldn't be friends with your ex. So you know there's
not a blanket statement never be friends with your ex.
Some people are going to say, look, that time my
life is done. There was intense emotional intimacy and physical
intimacy and I cannot. For me, it's I really struggle
to be friends with Max, so I won't do that.
(31:07):
I personally don't have an issue being friends with my ex,
and I think it's it's it can also be healthy, right,
Like you spent so much we forget that we love
that personal, We cared for that personal, we shared something
deep and profound with that person multiple times during the
course of our relationship. And sometimes again, like if you
struggle to let that go and move on and create
(31:31):
new space in your life and you're occupying your space
with what could be, then maybe you shouldn't be friends
with your X. It's a personal choice. So if you're
being upfront and you're being honest, that's really helpful and
really healthy, right, and you're taking ownership of that.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
But it keeps me very very single. My level of open,
open and honesty is just keeping me single.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
It's keeping me well, yeah, I hear, I hear that,
And I would say that maybe the caliber or the
openness of individual that you're attracting isn't able to meet
your level of honesty. And I'm curious as to why
you think that's occurring.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
Psychologically, I think we exude what we can handle in
our lives emotionally, psychologically, I think I give off, also,
separate from that, a very sexual force of energy to men.
A lot of men because of my bluntness, my openness,
(32:33):
they see that as a sexual desire. So I think
the type of men that I'm attracting are the ones
that are trying to I don't want to say control me,
but I want to say win me, if that makes sense.
And then I get them, and this is where the
trickster comes in. I flip them and within three to
(32:55):
four months, they are saying I love you, and I'm
saying bye bye. It became a game and I started
getting I realized through my self awareness and reflection journey,
I realized I was somehow getting turned on by this
mind fuck. And once I got them, I was so
turned off. They were just the ugliest, dumbest, they were
(33:19):
the worst of everything. And I realized I am a very,
very selfish individual. I'm very self fulfilling and self absorbed.
So I stopped completely being in relationships and I started
reading and reading because I'm a reader, and I started
reading and trying to understand more. And that's when I
came across polyamory and I thought, wow, wow, what a
(33:41):
great way for me to transfer the responsibility of what
I'm supposed to give to a partner and say, just
go fucking get it from someone else.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Just but it's interesting.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
I don't want to give it to you right now.
I can't emotionally give it to you, I can't psychologically.
I'm all about me today, this week, min go fuck off.
So I have a little bit stuck there. I'm like
a cat, you know that one direction they come up
and then when they don't, you'll pull the class out.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
We're going to take a quick break. But when we
come back, and.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
I think your mother lives a lot in your hand
and in your body. Yes, And you took a lot
of what your mother did and how she didn't and
what she said and how she behaved and how she
treated your father and how your father treated her, and
you've locked that in your body, and it's very difficult
for you to not be in control. So most people
(34:38):
get into any relationship because they want to feel a
liveness and intimacy and expansion and vulnerability and activation physically
and emotionally. Right whether you're in a non monogamous or
monogamous relationship, that's really one of the biggest rereads, some
of the big reasons that we get into relationship to
explore the unknown within ourselves and within that person, to
(34:58):
create something and creates some thing that is unique, unique
energetic and physical signature between us. It's interesting that you
said you give off this big sexual energy. Yet for you,
one of the reasons that you're in a polyamorous dynamic
where you choose that is because you don't want to
have sex often, or you don't want to have sex
(35:19):
so can you talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
Sure, I'm a walking oxymoron pretty much. If I just
sort of just sum it up for you right there.
I think there's a lot of insecurity involved. I'll be
honest with you, absolutely absolutely, there is this dynamic of
me wanting to be everything that I feel I can be,
(35:43):
but this suppression that I have been conditioned to, and
I'm so scared to tiptoe sometimes on the other side
because God forbid, I'm doing it wrong. And now I
have shown the wrong type of vulnerability and I wouldn't
know how to backtrack, So now I just have to
get rid of the person. So it's just I think insecurity.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
That's great awareness, And I agree with you. And I
think your mother lives a lot in your head and
in your body. Yes, And you took a lot of
what your mother did and how she did it, and
what she said and how she behaved and how she
treated your father and how your father treated her, and
you've locked that in your body, and it's very difficult
for you to not be in control. And being in
(36:27):
control helps you feel safe your nervous system in all
parts of you, and it's very difficult to surrender and
be in the mystery, which is a beautiful feminine exploration
if you're not feeling safe and you need control, and
we will find all the different ways that we can control.
And so there's are parts of you that really want
(36:47):
to explore deepened sexual intimacy and union, yet are terrified
of that because of maybe what they'll ask of you
in return, not in return as in exchange, but what
will happen as a result of that. And there's a
deepening And if there's a deepening, then there's a connection,
there's a needing to be present and that will take
away from your quote unquote selfishness or self absorption. And
(37:10):
there's so much magic and just that there what you said,
like that pattern of being selfish or where does that
really come from? What have you witnessed and seen in
your life and what voices or belief systems are living
in your being that have you needing to be selfish
and push people away? And there's nothing wrong with having
space in your own time. That's actually a really healthy thing.
But in your words, you know, self absorbed and selfish.
(37:32):
So there's a lot here, Gigi to unpack, like a lot. Yeah,
and I think yeah, parts of you. I love your
fucking honesty, by the way you are. You're a boss.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
Thank you. Yeah, that's the problem, is right, it's the
second stuff hard doing something about it.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Well, that's that's where you need to be surrounded by
safe people, right, whether the intimate partners, friends, coaches, you know,
people that you're working with to help you actually experience
moving beyond the known into the unknown and then learning
how to come back and regulate yourself and having real
life experiences of oh, I didn't die, then they didn't
(38:11):
kill me, I didn't get hurt, or maybe I can
go a little further into the unknown. And this is
we're relational beings. We can't do it by ourselves. We're
not meant to do it by ourselves. That's not that's
not what we're made like. One of the reasons that
we've evolved in the way that we have as a
species and as a humanity in modernity is because of
our complex social structures. It's not just our prefrontal cortex
(38:35):
brain development or linguistics coming into play, or the discovery
of psychotropic substances that enhance our consciousness. And you know
that eating meat and all that and fire and all that.
That's all part of it. But our complex social structures
and the way that we've evolved in relational union has
elevated our ability to accelerate modern technologies and adaptations and
(38:56):
creativity in the external world. So we need each other.
You're sitting on a chair right now. You have a microphone,
like you have all these things. You're in relationship with,
all these things that make this experience possible in relationship.
When I'm a relationship coach, I'm not just talking about
sexual and intimate union, which relationship to everything. So I
would say you have a lot of awareness you hide,
(39:19):
and you also amplified by your intellect, which is not
a good or bad thing, just something that is right,
and you're safe in your intellect. There are other components
to your being, such as being in your body and
having your nervous system move towards something that feels unknown
and maybe a little unsafe, but in very methodical, stable ways,
(39:40):
and that is the next step for you, and I
believe believe. I mean I could be wrong, but that's
what I believe. And also just hearing you speak and
hearing what you also design, and being very aware of
your traits, being aware of how you push people away,
and you know the I'm a living oxymoron. I you know,
walking contradiction right like most of us are. But you're
very aware of that, and so that's going to be
(40:01):
very confusing for people. But you also go to then
attract a person that is meeting you in that confusion.
So you're attracting unhealthy people, which is reinforce immature people.
That is reinforcing the belief of fuck, I don't need
a man, and I just be better off by myself,
and I can't trust in relationship and I can't go
(40:22):
deep with anyone, so fuck it, why not, I'll just
do polyamory, right.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
I mean, that's sort of that's That's exactly where I'm
at right now, and it's just it hasn't really changed anything,
because I know it's within me that needs to. I
need to change what's going on and I need to
start seeing things through a different set of eyes. But
I need to get the tools first, because I'm stuck.
(40:46):
You know, Like I said, I am so open and
I always have been my whole life. I think all
of us out there we should always be open to growth.
It's very imperative for us as as a world, world
as a whole entity. Is the world to evolve and
grow and keep looking towards the positivity and happiness and love.
(41:09):
And I mean I would I would love to love.
I would love to love. I would love to experience
a heartbreak. I want to feel that. I want to
when I see my friends hurt, crying because they just
got their hearts broken, I want to touch that. I
really want to know what that feels like. I want
to feel all of it. And I mean, here I am.
(41:33):
I'm talking to the best when it comes to this.
So here's what I want to say, because I feel
very selfish. I don't normally make I just told the
whole world I'm fucking selfish, So okay, of course I
feel selfish right now. I don't normally make a whole
episode about myself. I usually try to just you know,
stick to a specific topic and just let people learn
(41:56):
about what we're talking about. But I wanted to take
advantage of speaking with you, and I feel like it's
very relatable to many different relationship dynamics that are out
there that people are going through. You know, we re
experience things differently and we put different names to them. Polyamory, straight, gay,
you know three, You can name it whatever you want.
(42:17):
But the ultimate thing is I think everybody wants to
be loved. Everybody wants to feel loved and appreciate it.
And I would love to continue coursework with you. I mean,
if that's an option, if I could sign up, go
through your website, I know lots of people would want
to do something like this. Is that where people would
go to be able to sign up to get coaching?
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, firstly yes, And I'll explain a little
more on that in a moment. But let me just
can ask you a question. Sure, absolutely, if a man
said to you when you were pushing him away, don't
wry the dynamic or the container is monogamy, no moment
doesn't know, but you know you're pushing him away, and
he said, Hey, I'm not actually going anywhere, I'm not
(43:00):
going to stalk here or anything like that, but I'm
here with you. I see that some stuff's coming up.
What do you need from me? Has a man ever
I asked you that or said that to you?
Speaker 3 (43:10):
Now, nobody in my life has ever asked me that,
except a therapist, which I pee to ask me those
type of questions. So again, I grew up in a
family that if you talk about your emotions, you're considered emotional,
and it's why not logically, everything will be fine, you'll
figure it out. So no, I've never been asked by
(43:33):
a partner man.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
So there's a little girl inside of you, your little
girl that still thinks that if I am intellectual and
I stay in the mind and I'm highly cognitive, that
I will have mum and Dad's life and maybe they
won't fight, and maybe they love each other a little more.
And these are the irrational, unconscious parts of us that
require deeper healing and expansion in order to move beyond,
(43:59):
you know, the type of individuals that we're attracting, but
also the life that we're living. And so the reason
why I ask you that question is because I want
to help you understand that there are men out there
that aren't going to be in secure and desperate and
needy and fucking seek control or whatever, and they're going
(44:19):
to actually sit with you and be calm, slow down
their voice, and say, hey, I really care for you,
and I'm really boundaried, like if you don't want me,
I'm not going to choose you and I'm not that
going to I'm not going to give up that easier
because I see and I'm not trying to analyze you,
but I just see that there's something else here. So
(44:39):
if you want to do this thing with me and
explore it, I'll go here with you. What do you
need from me? How can I support you? And let
me tell you what I would need from you. And
if that's something that you can do, Hey, you need
some space, cool, take it. Let's reconvene in a week
or a few days. If you continue this behavior, I
can't be in. But if you wanted something different, then
I'm happy to explore that with you. You're only going
(45:00):
to attract men like that when you really go deeper
within yourself and you surrender to there's something on the
other side of me being different to how I've been.
I don't know what that is, but I'm willing to explore.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
Can I ask you a question on that?
Speaker 1 (45:15):
Of course?
Speaker 3 (45:16):
Do you believe it's rubbish if I were to say
in this city it's impossible to find a amount of
quality in Los Angeles.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
It's not rubbish for you to say that, And that
belief is dictating what you're seeing, and that's the beta
Mindhoff effect. You're familiar with that terminology.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
I am very familiar with that. I'm using forty one before,
not for thirty years experience of you know, So it's.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
Yeah, that's why I said it's not rubbish, right, because
but also, wherever you go, you take yourself with you,
and you take your patterns with you. So are there
physical environments that are more conducive to the man that
you would like to attract? Absolutely? Is Los Angeles a
bit of a cesspool in my opinion, A fucking lutely.
Speaker 3 (46:04):
I just wanted to hear you say that. I wanted
to make sure I'm not losing my fucking mind because
it's very hard to think quality in a city that's
based off materialism.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
Yeah, yeah, I hear that it's impossible. It's impossible, Well
you used to living, yes, yeah, so it's and I
know many I know many some great men that live
in Los Angeles as well, that are doing their inner
work too, right, But again, wherever you go, wherever we go,
we take ourselves with us, and so again bring it
(46:38):
back into you. You start venturing into these unknown spaces
within yourself. I tell you you're going to start seeing
the world very differently, Promise you that.
Speaker 3 (46:45):
It's time to pull out some wind decks and clear
my vision a little bit over here. I want to
wipe these little bad boys out. Everything you're saying, I
I identify with it, I feel it within myself. There's
a reason that the insecurity is more powerful still than
everything that I'm understanding.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
Yeah. Yeah, And even even the way you speak about
the insecurity, right, there's a almost like a disassociation to it,
like there's there's almost there's an emotion that wants to
come through you, that wants to break down and be
even deeper vulnerable, but you can't. Like you speak about
the insecurity and you're very clear on it, yet your
body's shut down to it. And that's the part that's missing, right,
(47:26):
And it's not And this isn't a criticism at all.
Please please hand on harder.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
Promise No, this is one hundred percent factual.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
Yeah, and it's and it's it's it's I really would
love that part or that part of you to come
through and be felt and just fucking release and be
open and oh man, and.
Speaker 3 (47:43):
I would love that, you know, Stepan is so funny
you say that to me, because if you were to
ask the people who know me, they think that I
am the most open book, and as I managed to
remain the most open book that no one knows anything about,
because as I can talk about myself and third party
as if I'm revealing things, yet I'm not revealing anything
(48:07):
at all. Right, they said, Oh, she she knows she's vulnerable.
That's great of her. She knows her Oh great, Wait
wait that's just the surface. Wait wait, wait, nobody has
cared to do that. So I appreciate you because you're
allowing me and a lot of other men and women
(48:28):
out there to believe that it's possible that it could
be possible to find a partner that can identify and
understand with themselves so deeply that they are not misguided
or challenged wrongly by the person in front of them.
You know. So I like that.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
Yeah, I like that too, and I like that you're
you know you're aware.
Speaker 3 (48:52):
Of Thank you and thank you so much for being here.
And please tell me where what can everyone do and
if they would love some coaching, some you know work?
Do you want to do self work? I know you do.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
So.
Speaker 3 (49:04):
Your website is amazing and FYI ecology. That is the
coolest thing in the world. Hello, that's amazing. Yeah, I
can study the ecology. Sorry off subjects, but that was
pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
I thoughttle bit of.
Speaker 3 (49:17):
What I forgot the name of this and I was
trying to remember it the last time I was recording
the podcast. What is the name of someone who's sexually
aroused by someone's brain SAPO sexual. Yes, that's what I am.
I am very like that of CPO sexual.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
Yeah, I'm also No, I'm not just a safer sect.
Some people are just it's physicality zero. I'm sort of
all of it for me personally. Yeah. Yeah, so yeah
you can you can find me. So in reference to
this conversation, I have an Inner Child course Level one,
level two, highly accessible on my website stephanosfandos dot com.
(49:56):
You'll find all my courses and programs and service offerings there.
But in a i'll level one and level two, and
there's a relationship course on their intensive Beautiful Heart opening
courses to help you understand yourself learn at your own pace.
We also teach in a Child live by the way,
the next live one will be in twenty twenty three
at some point. Yeah, I do so if you want
(50:18):
to coach with me in one on one capacity, you
can access that through my website. Otherwise, work sorry coach
with Steph dot com. STF coach with Steph dot com
and you can access one on one coaching and something
that I do for women. I have a number of
different programs for women. Be the Queen is one of them,
but breath Work for the Feminine every month here in Austin,
(50:38):
and I will be traveling with this as well in
twenty twenty three, but every month here in Austin. We
just did our first one. I did my first one
a couple of days ago. There were eighty women there
and it was beautiful and it's a three hour immersive experience.
We go deep in a relationship coaching, dating dynamics, Masculine Feminine.
Breath Works somatically releasing next month's theme. It's November, not
(50:59):
Octo only because I'm away is trust already selling a
lot of tickets for that in person, but I also
live stream it so it doesn't matter where you are
in the world. You can access that. And that's stefanosfandos
dot com, slash Feminine and all the details and then
you can get your tickets there as well.
Speaker 3 (51:17):
I love that and it's amazing what you do. Thank
you for being open with yourself so much and so
self aware that you're able to be this confident being
that has been able to just help so many people
understand themselves, because it really truly comes down to just
(51:38):
first understanding who we are and our value and our
worth because we're here for such a short period of time,
and you know, we were just saying everyone wants to
be loved and everyone wants to love. So I thank
you so much. I have a lot of things I
would love to reflect on from this conversation, and I
would definitely love to do some coursework. I mean, November
(51:59):
is my birthday month, so I would probably love to
treat myself with your course. So thank you so much
again for being here. Stefanos.
Speaker 1 (52:07):
Thank you. I appreciate you very much as well.
Speaker 2 (52:10):
Thanks for listening to Genuinely Gigi. Download new episodes every
week and if you haven't already, subscribe and be sure
to leave us a rating and review. And while you're
at it, check out some of the other great shows
available on straw Hut Media.
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