He was Locked Up Where I was a C.O - Now We Talk Prison Addiction & Surviving F3ntanyl | Ep 88 - Get a Grip Podcast

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
How bad off were you? Oh man, Like, compared to the
streets? Worse.
Worse. Yeah.
I I First of all, I've never done meth on the streets.
OK. The the only thing I really ever
really, I would say that I got invested in on the streets were
opiates. You know, I've done coke and,
you know, odd things here and there.
A little experiment here, a little experiment there.
But most of my thing for the streets was opiates.

(00:22):
And when I got in prison, I was just such a lost soul, dude that
like, I was just looking for anyway out.
All right, we're back with another episode of Get a Grip

(00:43):
Podcast. We have Chris Weldon with us
today. Chris, thank you for coming.
Of course, much appreciated for having me back.
Yep. Chris and I go back to our
Correctional Facility days whereI was, I was the police and you
were the inmates. But in reality, we're both just
criminals and addicts and that are in recovery.

(01:06):
So we are going to start off with your childhood, Tell us
about your childhood and what that looked like, and then we'll
go from there. Yeah, so I'll be 30 in a month.
Basically grew up here in Columbus, but I kind of lived in
a bunch of different places too,in Tennessee, Michigan, Florida,

(01:28):
But most of my time I grew up here, born here.
My parents are drug addicts. They've always been drug addicts
my whole life. Yeah, they progressed from
cocaine to alcohol to just marijuana and you know, but
they've remained drug addicts. They've like worked their way
down. Kind of, yeah.

(01:50):
Yeah, that's that's how you wantto.
Perceive it, yeah. I mean, that's better though.
It's better than yeah, yeah, it's better than some things.
Naturally with that kind of atmosphere, I was drawn to that
atmosphere. And so like, you know, the
street life kind of took took a hold of me pretty young, say
probably around 1415. I started doing dumb shit,
trying drugs, committing crimes,stealing, you know, anything

(02:15):
really just in the image of trying to fit in and be cool.
You know, I didn't really know my place in the world for a long
time. And I didn't, my parents were
kind of focused on the wrong thing.
So I didn't have really the guidance to kind of tell me
like, you know, at all. Yeah.
So I figured stuff out of my own.
Naturally, since I'm here, you know that I didn't make the
greatest choices and ultimately led me through some things like

(02:40):
getting stabbed, getting beat tothe pulp, going to prison, you
know, seeing my friends die all around me and stuff, go to
prison and stuff too. Tell me about the 14 to 15 age
when you started to get in trouble.
Like what the progression lookedlike?
Yeah, so it started probably my parents have always smoked weed.

(03:02):
So I think it started with like me and my cousins were probably
pinching sacks and little bit ofbud here, a little bit of bud
here, Yeah. And trying their stuff.
And then, you know, you see themdoing powder and then you try
the powder and, you know, it's so on and so forth.
You know, one, when people are partying, they're not just doing
one thing. So the the accessibility to all

(03:23):
the drugs was prevalent, you know.
Everything was there. Yeah, and we were no strangers
that we were like not it's scared at all to try things.
So we see them doing it and we're going to try it and.
Isn't that weird how we just didshit?
Yeah, Like normal people would think twice or three times or be
like fuck, now. And we're just like, yeah, sure,

(03:44):
yeah, sounds good. Yeah, I think my parents didn't
really realize or my and my uncles and aunts and stuff, they
didn't really realize the impactthat just your kids watching you
will have you know, and like you, you, you can hide stuff a
little bit, but your kids are watching and they're paying
attention and they learn it fromyou, you know, and so they mimic
you. And if they see you snorting

(04:04):
fucking powder off of a glass table, then they're going to
want to do that. And so.
That's how they see see what it's.
About I think too, where it really like spiraled for me as I
got a little older in high school and I kind of knew about
drugs a little bit more and stuff.
I ended up getting this injury in high school and getting
prescribed Vicodin and that kindof set me on like a track to

(04:28):
like try pills and stuff. And then I tried Percocets and
it was kind of well. What was the what was the
Vicodin like downhill like? You got the Vicodin first before
the Percocets? Yeah.
What was that like? Did you like it or was it just
kind of like this is all right? Yeah, I think it was more like a
this is kind of I just vibed, you know, like it wasn't like a

(04:49):
nodding out or anything crazy like that.
Knock your socks off. Yeah, no, it was just kind of
like marijuana really. I mean, just stronger,
obviously, you know, more relaxed, you know, And then as
I'm sure you know, as a former drug addict, you know, when you
start doing drugs and stuff, allthe pain goes away, all the
stuff that you think about and stuff like that, all physical.

(05:12):
Yeah, man, it just all goes away.
And so you don't really think about, like, the consequences of
things or anything like that or,you know, why am I even doing
this? Like, you're not even thinking
that far. You're just like, man, I'm doing
it. You don't think about it at.
All right. So I think it just kind of, I
just kind of settled into it, you know?
When you got the perks, where'd you get them?

(05:32):
Streets or prescription? I can't I can't really recall
too too well 'cause I I have been prescribed Percocet before
too. But I think I want I want to say
that that it started with the streets like my buddies and
stuff doing it. And then, you know, I'm like,
hey, man, I don't know what thatis.
Let me try, you know. And so I just.

(05:55):
And that hit. Different and then it it also it
really hurt that the plug quote UN quote was across the street
and so like we were just runningall the time back and forth over
there. We would go do something make a
little money and come over thereand see him and then shit and it
was like a revolving door yeah and convenient at the.

(06:15):
Time. Yeah, more than you could.
Ask he was also like a one stop shop too.
So like he would all the time wewould go over there for like
let's say a perk and he would offer Suboxone or like go over
there for Suboxone. He'd offer heroin and you know,
we're dumb ass kids. So we're like, heroin seems
cool, you know, like, we'll try it.

(06:35):
Jesus, how old were you when youtried heroin for the first time?
I think I was 19 when I tried heroin. 19 so oxys up until.
I did mostly Percocets. I did do a little oxy little,
you know, a little bit of everything.
Fives or really 30s? It started with 10s tens, OK,
And it worked up to 30s, yeah, for for like probably a year,

(06:58):
though. I was 10's and fifteens.
And then once I hit 30s, it was like a full stride to dope
fiend. Yeah.
And yeah. And then I started robbing and
stealing and selling drugs and doing dumb shit like that to try
to make the make the money for it.
And you were doing like B&E's and shit, right?

(07:19):
Pretty much anything to do with theft.
B&E's. I did a couple of them, but most
of my things were like burglary.And when people weren't around,
I would scope out. And then when you left, you
know, I would basically I would learn your schedule.
I would watch you and learn yourschedule.
And then once I figured you out,knew when you would be gone, how
long you'd be gone, that kind ofthing.

(07:41):
Then I would find my way in and just take, you know,
electronics, just basically valuables, cash, shoes, just the
normal stuff you would see on the streets, you know, mostly
shoes and electronics. What was your biggest lick from
a burglary? Probably what I went to prison
for and I ironically like, I don't really remember much of it

(08:05):
because I was just like strung out on Xanax, but that's
probably like the biggest. What'd you get?
What was the? It it it equivalent to 1010
grand and worth of merchandise? It wasn't like money or
anything, you know? But it was 10 GS of. 10 GS of
like TV's and the brand new, it was like PlayStation 5 when it

(08:27):
first came out and stuff like, you know, shit like that.
Yeah, Jordan's like the dude that I, I robbed and he ended up
he, we had a whole shoe collections.
Like most of that money came from that.
Any cash, no cash. Most of the time when I would do
stuff like that, I wouldn't comeacross cash.
It would be mostly like jewelry,electronics.
You weren't spending like a lot of time in the house, so it's

(08:48):
not like you were going and looking behind bookshelves or
cash or opening books looking for $100 bills.
In and out completely degeneratedope head just trying to get a
buck man like I'm in getting what I can getting out.
I'm not thinking about like making buku money or anything.
You know I'm just trying to get that fixed man.
I'm fucking and most of the timeI'm fucking dope sick when I'm
doing this, you know? So like that's what I'm thinking

(09:10):
about. Like I'm thinking about just
getting my fix, man. Like I not caring about who I
hurt or anything really and justgetting that.
Yeah, if you're dope sick when you're doing it, yeah, that's
all you give a fuck about. You want to get the fuck in and
out so you can go get what you need.
Yeah, yeah. And you know, yeah, it'll take
you to some crazy places. Somebody that I was locked up

(09:32):
with under you ended up getting out and robbing banks and stuff,
man, getting chased down West Broad.
I. I don't want to say his name.
I. Know you.
I know you. Ginger if that helps.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. OK.
Yep, Yep, Yep. I spent a lot of time with him
so. Yeah, and he seemed like a

(09:54):
pretty. He seemed like he had his head
on his shoulders. He really did.
And that's how you know, man, that that stuff will just take
complete control of you. Well.
That's what was fucked up is like I would talk to you guys
because I was you and like get along with you guys really well,
especially your group. Yeah, yeah.
And like, he was cool. Like he was like seemed like a

(10:16):
smart guy, a decent guy, got out, got strung out and fucking
started robbing banks. And that is how quick it can
happen. That's exact and I don't even
think he was out for 3-4 months and now he's doing 10 years.
Holy. Yeah.
Wow dude, that would put me at 44 so he'll get out when I'm 44.

(10:37):
Yeah. Holy shit that's wild to think
about. Yeah, you know it.
I know his whole story. When he was running down West
Broad, he opened up the bag and the blue shit sprayed all over
him. So his mug shot, the die, Yeah,
the mug shot, his mug shot is just that, like smear marks of
that shit all over him. The die pack exploding, Yeah.

(11:00):
Oh. My.
God, yeah. Embarrassing.
Jesus Christ. Yeah, he looked like a fucking
Smurf. I bet he did exactly like a
Smurf. When was the first time you saw,
I don't want to say consequences, but legal trouble
from what you were doing? I mean, I'm sure there were
consequences. Most of my consequences were

(11:24):
probably like internal, like family until I was almost an
adult. Like when I caught my felony
that sent me to prison. I was 17 when I caught that.
That was probably like I had been to jail, but like not for
drugs necessarily, just for being like a fucking wild bug
out fighting and shit like that.My first consequences for drugs,

(11:46):
though, it was probably homelessness.
My my dad finally just was like,man, you're not living in my
house and doing this shit right under my nose.
So like, you're either going to quit this shit now or you're
going to get the fuck out and stubborn headed as I am, Like,
all right, well, I guess I'm kicking rocks.
Bud, see you later. And that that reality kind of
set in after a couple of days out there, You know, you're kind

(12:07):
of like, man, I could probably just give this shit up.
Do. You have a car.
No. So you were just.
Just out there sleeping, dude. Yeah, I parked at the park on
the slide. Yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty
rough under bridges. I mean, I I won't glorify and
act like I was out there for months and months.
I didn't on on end, but I was definitely out there for like a

(12:27):
week and a half. And that was pretty rough for me
when I was 16. I did 30 days and that was, that
was rough for me. So I mean, and there's people
who do it for years in the freezing cold and all that shit.
And I can't imagine. I mean, I literally like those
days where it's like 0°. Oh, yeah, dude, when I was in

(12:48):
jail, you would all the time, like if I was in there during
the winter, you would see how much people come in just to stay
for the cold, you know, get out of the cold, come in with bed
bugs and roaches and lice and the whole 9 and just come in
there and sleep because they have nowhere else to go.
Yeah, yeah, that stuff used to kind of hurt me a little bit to
see, you know. Yeah, it sucks.

(13:08):
I remember a dude told me once when I went to jail, we were in
a tank, and he told me he just needed to lay it down for a
couple months, try to take a break.
Career criminal, you know what Imean?
Just occupational hazard. Yeah, exactly.
Just an occupational hazard of his job.
I was going to jail and it's onehell of a way to live.

(13:34):
Tell us about your first long term experience in the
workhouse. Where our our county jail,
Frank? We call it the Workhouse, but
it's our county jail here in Ohio and Franklin County,
Columbus. So the longest stretch I did
there was 11 months. Other than that, I've done like

(13:54):
little four months a year, 4 months there and you know, just,
I've always been poor indigent is what they call it.
And so I've never been able to afford attorney or bond or
anything. So most of my story is like me
sitting in jail because my parents have the money, but
they're like no motherfucker, you need to learn your lesson.
And I don't have any money. So I'd end up sitting in there
for months on end learning my lesson.

(14:16):
What type of shit? Like the first time you did,
like I say, a three month stint,you go in and what are you
seeing? Dude, OK, yeah, so the first
time in the workhouse is fuckingbrutal for me, man.
Excuse my language, but it's 2013.
When I went, I was like I said, 17.

(14:36):
When I went in there, they put me in like this like juvenile,
kind of like a halfway tank. Like you sit in there and then
they move you to a tank later on.
But like you're in there with like 17 to 22 year olds.
And like when you're, when you're 17, dude, a 22 year old
is fucking might as well be a grown man, you know?
You know, like they've seen a little bit more, even if it's

(14:56):
only a couple years. Doesn't even seem right.
Yeah, Yeah, it doesn't Right. Like, but then, so Long story
short, they moved me upstairs and back in 2013, no camera.
It was, it was, yeah, it was bad, dude.
Like they wouldn't even come in there and save you if you were
getting beat up. Like if you're getting fucking
jumped by 10 dudes, they would sit at the door and watch you

(15:19):
and videotape you while you're getting your fucking head beat
in right in front of them. I've seen it happen.
And all they would need to do ispop the door and everybody's
going to back up, you know? Oh, shit.
But no. So I watched some people get
brutally beat in there. People I've seen people get
starved in there. You know where people like

(15:39):
literally you, you're fighting for your food.
It's because back in the, they don't do it anymore.
But back in the day, 2013, they,what they would do is they would
bring in the exact amount of trays for the pod.
So let's say there's 20 people in there.
They bring in 20 trays, but they're not handing them out to
you. They're just setting the 20
trays on the fucking table and then everybody's got to come get
theirs. Well buddy, if you can't fight,

(16:01):
you're not getting yours. Yeah, so you bought, you watch
people be. I've seen people starved.
Yeah, yeah, man. I've seen people like literally
refuse to stand up for themselves and like.
What does that do to a human though, as they they're not
eating days on end? I mean, you watch these people.
Normally it didn't. It doesn't last long because

(16:22):
they end up tapping out. Yeah.
So it doesn't last long usually,but.
Explain tapping out to our viewers.
Yeah, so tapping out our county jail is a supermax.
So you never leave this the pod.There's 20 to 40 people in this
pod. They're overcrowded.
There's so there's under, there's overcrowded of inmates

(16:43):
and under population of Cos or or deputies.
And so they're like not always around, they're just mostly in
their station. Never around.
Right, right, right. You don't see them until they do
count. Yeah, exactly.
So if you want to get their attention for any reason, it's
not even just to leave the cell.Like if you want to get their
attention for any reason, you have to bang on this door, reel

(17:04):
out until they come down, they're pissed off.
Like what the fuck are you banging for?
But Long story short, these guys, they'd get so fed up of
being in the cell, they would basically wait until everybody's
asleep at like 2-3 in the morning.
And then they would run up to the door and they would bang on
it hard as as they could and notstop until the CE OS come or the

(17:25):
deputies come and take them out,you know, and it was basically
their their way of avoiding a fight but also leaving the cell.
And if you there, there's been times when guys would lose
fights and they'd. Immediately.
Oh yeah, actually there's, I've seen people gang fights where
when the guy, when the loser gets up, they're like, you got
to leave now. You got to tap.
That's it. Yeah, and you're not staying in

(17:46):
here unless you want to keep this going.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, 'cause our kind of, it really is a
supermax. Like you don't breathe fresh air
until you go to court. Like I remember going to court
and like you'd get outside to get on the bus and you'd have
like 5 seconds of fresh air and it was like, Oh my God, that
smells so. Good.
This is what I'm fucking missing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Driving by regular cars on the

(18:08):
street and shit like. Yeah.
And if you for you guys that have never been to the
workhouse, if you had stepped inthere for even a couple hours,
you would realize that like, it's a very easy place to lose
your composure and it's very easy to just go mad in there.
There's nothing to do. You're in there with a bunch of
criminals who have. Covered the windows.

(18:28):
Yeah, that you can't see outside.
You're not seeing anything in the hallway, like the the cells
across from you are blocked out,tented out, so you literally see
no one but the people you're with all day 24/7.
There's hardly any food. There's nothing to do.
There's one female. Yeah.
So it's just like a recipe for disaster.

(18:48):
Man, it really is. Yeah.
It's like it's set up to make you.
It is set up to make you go mad.So that's why they do it.
So you plea out. Right.
Yeah, that, yeah, that is a, that is a common conception with
Franklin County is that they areplea out county and they kind of
do that on purpose to force you to.
Yeah. And ironically, that's kind of
what happened to me is I ended up taking a plea deal because I

(19:10):
was so tired of being in there for that 11 months.
Yeah, fuck yeah. 11 months is a long ass time.
Yeah. OK, so you do your 3-4 months
here and there. Now it's time for your 11 month
bed. You commit this burglary.
How do you get caught? I got caught red handed.

(19:31):
I think a neighbor saw me running through backyards and I
had, I broke the guy's window with a hammer and I think they
saw me running through yards andthrow the hammer.
And so dude came outside yellingat me, Hey, hey, what the fuck
are you doing in my backyard? Next thing you know, as I'm
booking it out another yard, here comes the cruiser and I ran

(19:52):
from him. He ran me up.
He hit me with his car. I ran to there was like these
woods by near my house and therewas this field right before the
woods. I ran through the field, he
drove up on the field. And bumped me with his car just
trying to knock you over. Knocked me over, Yeah.
And then he jumped out and handcuffed me.
There so it worked. Yeah, it worked.
Yeah, dude. Yeah, definitely.

(20:13):
I'm assuming you had shit or no?No, I just, it was a failed
attempt. Like So what I got, I didn't get
caught for the actual burglary. I got caught for a separate
attempted burglary. So my sentence was four years,
11 months. I got four years for the
burglary and I got 11 months forthe attempted burglary.
They caught me for the attemptedburglary, matched, matched the

(20:34):
evidence and caught me for the burglary.
And so I was Scott free on that burglary for until I did that
right, they didn't have my fingerprints, nothing.
So like I committed that they got the hammer.
Fingerprints matched fingerprints.
Now you're busted for whatever else you did or some of.
It and then since you mentioned that yeah, at first they didn't

(20:57):
even they didn't they did they let me they sent me to jail.
I got an OR bond. So they let me basically ride
out and they started their investigation.
They secretly indicted me on that burglary, the four the four
years that I got and then they called me in for questioning and
my dad, I was a minor, so my dadhad to go with me.
And when I first sat down in theinterrogation room, the first

(21:20):
thing they do, 22 detectives come in, the first one just
slams a fucking packet down on the table.
I'm telling you, it's probably this thick 60 something
indictments, 60 something crimesthat they were trying to.
So what they were doing was theywere taking an area and they
were saying that I committed allthese like a.
Part of town. Yeah, so like, you know, I was

(21:43):
from the West side, so let's saythey took the hilltop and they
were like all these crimes look very similar.
And we're going to try to basically say that you you're
the guy. You did all of them, which I'm.
Sure, you shit your pants. Yeah, and then that's that's my
thing is like, I don't know if Idid these or not at this point.
I was so deep into that life, man, that like I had just

(22:03):
committed so many crimes to. I don't fucking know what I did
or what I didn't do. Man, you know you did some or
you don't know if they're these or those.
Or what? So I'm just, you know, my dad,
ex convict himself, and the first thing he told me was shut
your fucking mouth. Don't say nothing.
And so that's what I did, man, luckily.

(22:24):
I probably should have went to prison for a lot longer.
I, I, I guarantee I should have went to prison for a lot longer.
And I'm very fortunate that I got the time that I did.
But you didn't talk. I didn't talk and that's
probably why I didn't get the time that.
I should have got yeah Co defendants, no, just you.
I could have had a, could have, could have but.

(22:46):
Didn't but didn't talk. Good for you, good for you that
Well, I mean, yeah, I four yearsand 11 months is a long time,
but you know, I I get it. You don't telling your friends
like that's how. I was just so scared too, man,
back then. I just didn't know what to what
to expect or what to think. And that's just the kind of

(23:07):
person that I am that if it seems too foreign, that I kind
of just like back away and kind of, you know, just watch.
I don't blame you one bit. So after you sit with the
detectives, what happens next? They let me go, they take a
mouse swab, fingerprints, you know, the the standard thing

(23:28):
they do during investigations. And then they send me home
couple months later, Marshall's knock on the door and my mom
just lets him in. Come on in They come right now.
I'm in my draws. They dump me the Paddy wagon in
my draws. And you know I was.
Were you acting up? Yeah, I was so like such a

(23:48):
violent little fucker, man that like when they came to arrest
me, I wasn't, I was like, you'regoing to have to drag me.
I'm not fucking going, you know,I'm not putting clothes on.
I'm not doing none of this. Fuck you guys kicking and
pushing and all this. So they hog tied me and they
threw me and that bitch would just draws.
On because that normally they would let you put on pants.
They did. They were even trying to be cool
with me. They were like, look, 'cause I'm
sure it's 'cause I was a kid, you know, and they're looking at

(24:10):
me like, man, I don't even want to arrest this fucking kid.
I don't look like back then I didn't have tattoos, you know,
I'm long hair, pretty white boy from fucking disorders.
So like, they're looking at me like this kid, probably not even
the fucking guy, you know? I could just tell now that I'm
older that they didn't want to even arrest me but let it, let
alone do me like they did. And I'd kind of just forced

(24:32):
their hand, you know, they've made them just like, yeah,
they're like, dude, look, we're not going to fight with you all
day, basically, right. And so they backed me up.
I had to wear a turtle suit because I didn't have, I was
just freaking out. I didn't, I had to wear, you
know what the turtle suit is. I had to wear a.
Turtle suit. Why?
Why the turtle suit? Normally that's for people who

(24:53):
are going to UN alive. Dude, they were almost going to
put me in a spit mask because I was freaking out so much.
Oh really? Yeah.
Which is like a spit mask is like a hairnet, but it just goes
over your mouth. Yeah, that's pretty much what.
Yeah, it's like a like like a laundry bag net net, like a
laundry net bag basically and just kind of catches the spit.
So you can't spit on the couch. You just basically spit on

(25:14):
yourself. So you get down there and I mean
you're thinking what, what do you think and what's going
through your mind Years are you thinking 10 you thinking I mean?
Brother, to be totally honest with you, I don't think my mind
was there yet. It was almost surreal, like I
almost didn't believe. This can't be.

(25:34):
Yeah, this can't happen. Yeah, this can't be happening.
I ended up going in the drunk tank with somebody that I was
enemies with too Perfect. And well, luckily he wasn't on
any of that. And so we kind of squashed it.
But like, that's, that's like the first thing I'm thinking,
like, man, I'm running into thisdude.
The first fucking cell I'm getting in, how many people am I

(25:55):
gonna you know, I'm a, I'm a Jack boy, dude.
You know how many people I've pissed off in this world?
People that want my head, man. And yeah, so that's just playing
through my head. Like, man, how many people am I
gonna have to fucking fight in here?
Yeah, 'cause you don't know. Yeah, and.
And some people don't even want to just fight, you know,
especially in jail. Yeah, yeah.

(26:16):
You're not wrong. Yeah.
What was some of the most ridiculous shit you saw in the
workhouse during that 11 months?And I know you said you saw some
people get jumped. Yeah, things.
Like that most of my crazy incarceration witness accounts
were like in prison. In prison, Yeah, like I seen you

(26:36):
guys had an episode where a guy was talking about a fan motor.
That same thing happened in my prison.
I didn't witness that, but I I basically the same thing.
I saw the blood trail same same exact way and everything.
Dude took a net bag, put a fan motor in it, swung it like a
fucking yeah yeah dude, and thenjust bring it down on dude's

(26:58):
head. Busted his head open.
Fuck, so no fights yourself in the workhouse?
No, yeah, I got a lot of fights.I won't say that I won many of
them, if, if really any of them.It's tough.
Especially, you know, I'm all the worst demographics in the

(27:18):
workhouse. If you think about it, I'm a
white kid and back then, like I said, until I went to prison, I
had no tattoos, so I didn't evenlook like I was a street kid or
not not. Even a criminal.
Right. Yeah, So I just look completely
out of place. I'm like a Justin Bieber looking
kid in the fucking workhouse. What do you?
Think I fucking felt I literallyhad the Justin Bieber haircut
when I went to jail. Yeah, it's fucking bad, OK.

(27:40):
Bad luck. So naturally, you know when you
look like that when you're a white kid.
And Columbus is notoriously against the West Side for
whatever reason. So that already added a little
extra to it. I wouldn't know because I really
didn't experience dope sickness,really.
Or at least it didn't register to me until I was in prison and

(28:02):
I was in CRC, stuck in a cell 23hours a day.
And that's when I'm like, man, my fucking body hurts, dude.
Like this has got to be because of something else.
You. Know, yeah.
So the 11 months outside of doing 11 months was like pretty
smooth. Yeah, so I'm not the greatest

(28:25):
fighter, man. I get beat up more often than
than not. But I will fight.
And I think that kind of saved me, you know, like I will fight,
I'll get my ass beat. And if you call me out, I'll
I'll stand up for myself. And so I think I was a lot of
push and shove in the beginning of that eleven months.
But it, you know, people got used to me people.
Realized and the longer you're there.
Yeah, people like you a little bit more.

(28:46):
Yeah. You know, you talk to people and
get. Different racks you.
Fuck, you're not the fucking newguy no more.
Exactly. Yeah.
And people know, like, yo, he's been here for six months.
Like, yeah. And you get respect from that.
Yeah, you can kind of tell too, who's been there a little bit
longer, You know, they're a little bit more chill.
Yeah, they've got their shit allset up now.
Yeah, they're just trying to hang out, man, until they get

(29:08):
out. Get the fuck out and go to
prison. Go home or or go to prison.
Go to fucking prison. Which is much better than the
workhouse from what I understand.
Well, yeah, you get to walk around and stuff.
That's probably the biggest. Breathe fresh air.
Yeah, yeah. You, you're basically semi in
control of your life, whereas inthe workhouse you're

(29:28):
micromanaged to the fucking to your sleep.
Yeah, you know. It sucks, dude, it sucks.
So you get a court for sentencing.
We'll skip to sentencing. And how does that go?
That's that's probably when the eye opener of like the
realization of this is actually happening set in ironically at

(29:50):
the very end of it. Well, yeah.
Something about here in 59 months was not great.
It snapped something wrong. It snapped something in my head,
man, made me stop for a second. Like man, what the fuck is
happening right now? Like and you got to think I I
said I said I was just a kid. So I'm thinking like 59 months.

(30:12):
That's a long fucking time when you ain't lived very many. 59
months, you know, super long time you're. 20 years old and
you've only lived. Four of the fourth of your life,
right? Yeah.
Quarter of your life, yeah. Up to that point.
So I'm looking at this like I'm fucking doing a life sentence.
Yeah. 59 months dude. I almost broke down in tears.
I don't blame you. I I would have been shocked,

(30:34):
like totally shocked. I.
Was I remember vividly, 'cause, you know, they chain you to
somebody, excuse me, they chain you to somebody when they move
you from court to jail and back and forth.
And I remember just, you know, it's so awkward and you hate it
the whole time you're there. And I was just so in shock that
I just did not even care that I was just stuck like fuck, man,

(30:56):
I'm going to prison. I'm.
Going to prison, couldn't register it.
Yeah, like this can't be real, really.
That's it was just so surreal tome.
And they they take you back to the workhouse, you sit for what,
like couple weeks a month, 2 weeks, 2 weeks?
Something like that. And they ride you out.

(31:16):
Yeah. And they ride you out to CRC.
Oh yeah, CRC first. Yeah, CRC first.
And I spent. Three months in CRCCRC is going
to be like a lot of paperwork. It's just basically they're
there, the portion of you going to prison where they figure out
who you are and where they need to put you.

(31:37):
And so they do like mental health shit there.
And you know, that's why I endedup staying for three months
'cause I was a nut case. They like assess you, basically.
Yeah, yeah. So they, it says how violent you
are, how your recidivism is going to be gang.
Yeah, all that, the whole thing,you know, how many, what kind of
crimes are you in here for? If you're in here for an

(31:58):
assault, then you're going to betreated different than someone
that's in here for a burglary, you know?
So yeah, that CRC was pretty boring.
I saw a lot of C OS doing crazy shit at CRC.
Like I think the Big Chew story yeah where he sprayed.
Everybody tell that story again.That's such a good story.

(32:19):
I mean, please share that. So big.
So when I was at CRC, there was this notorious guy, everybody
called him Big Chew. He's this big like 300 and 5400
LB country bumpkin. Was he like fat?
Yeah. Or was he like?
He's kind of just like a countryboy man, Like big, big and
burly. You could tell he was strong,
country strong. But he was sloppy built.

(32:40):
Yeah. He wasn't like fucking, you
know, jacked or anything. And he would sit in the cart,
and the cart would lean. That's how big he was by
himself. Yeah, by himself.
He would sit in it and would lean.
But yeah. So what they do at CRC is when
everybody goes to chow, they line up 1 dorm at a time.
That way you being in B2, don't match with someone in a one and

(33:05):
then beef starts. And what they don't, what they
didn't really take into account is like B1 and B2 are the same
block, but they're different. They're one side of each or
whatever, you know, And so like instead of just doing B2 or B1
and then B2, they do B1 and B2. And so people ran into each
other and a fight broke out. And Big Chew, he's like thirsty

(33:28):
for it. So he's the first guy there and
he's run. He's rolling up on a golf cart
and he's so fucking fat and lazythat he doesn't even get off to
stop the fight. He just rides by this whole line
of people standing up and just Mace is everyone until
everyone's dropping dude, he's just.
Dropping by Mace, yeah, yeah, make his life a little bit

(33:48):
easier. Yeah, you just see this orange
fucking cloud just engulf the whole crowd.
Did were you you get any? Blowbacks.
Yeah, dude, everyone's out there.
Everybody got it. Everybody got it.
Yeah, I'm sure he even probably got it.
Whole meal ruined everything. Fucks.
Yeah. Big Chew is kind of crazy too,
because he's notoriously connected to the death of Ariel

(34:09):
Castro. If anybody doesn't know who that
is, that's the guy that kidnapped the three girls and
the. Rumors that he.
He hung himself, Yeah. A lot of people say that the CE
OS beat him up and hung him. Yeah.
And Big Chew was under investigation for that.
So. Oh, really?
Yeah. They actually put him under
investigation for it. Yeah, holy shit.

(34:31):
So. So there may be some legitimacy
to that. There might be.
He was a pretty fucking mean guyfor sure.
You would hear stories all the time about this shit, that he
would do a slam. He would drag people from their
feet. Like, let's say he cuffs you up.
He would pick you up. Like, let's say you're laying on
your face. Yeah, you know, And you got your
hands behind your back. He would grab you from the hooks
of your feet and drag you to thehole across the yard just like

(34:54):
that, dragging you by your. Feet.
Yeah, instead of just walking with you.
Fuck. And he could just do that with
anyone. He's so big.
Well, I won't say. That most people.
Regular thing. I don't think that was a
regular. I know I didn't see it.
No. OK, this is just a story I
heard. Yeah.
I don't know how the legitimate see beside behind this, but

(35:16):
Jesus, this is just stuff that Iheard.
Yeah. God, fucking ruthless dude.
I wonder. Wonder why?
I wonder why someone would fucking feel the need to act
like that towards another human or like enjoy it like you did
but. Go spend some time in prison.
No your. Mind might.

(35:37):
Change. No, I'm cool.
There's there's some pretty fucking sorry if I'm cussing a.
Lot No, you're fine. So there's a lot of degenerates
for like a better words that arejust like literally hopeless.
Yeah, you could just look at them and you're just like, man,
you're doomed. For the rest of your life.
Yeah, this is it for you, brother.
This is it. Isn't it crazy how obvious that

(35:59):
is? It's even crazier when you
realize how comfortable they arewith it and it's like doesn't
bother them and you know, this dude just walking around like
this is home. I hate this shit.
I want to go right now. So, so ridiculous.
There was. There was guys in our place that
were. Yeah, same way.
Like the same way. Just tell that they were on
their way. They.

(36:20):
Didn't give. AI think we've even had that
conversation where we were talking to me and you were like
and I'm sitting there like man, I can just tell some of these
guys are on their way man. Yeah, yeah.
They can't wait. Dudes would, dudes would admit
they can't wait to get out and get high.
Like, yeah, can't wait, can't wait.
That's all I want to do. That's all I want to do.
That's all I want to do. Like, damn, you don't want to
give yourself a chance. Like, yeah, because you're

(36:42):
you're going to prison if you get out and get high, you're
going to violate and bye, bye. Not only that dude, but like
life is just not, yeah, it's notfun on drugs.
Like your problems kind of go away, but they don't really go
away. No.
And they, they just, they're just easier to in hiding, you
know. And so it's never, it's never
ever good. Ever.

(37:03):
It's not, it's not a good life. And when you get sober, you
realize that you could have doneit all along, and then you
wasted all this time. For for what?
That's the killer. Like man, like if people would
just assert their issues and deal with them.
And like, something about getting sober too, helped me
realize that I like, I like the pain sometimes, you know, it's

(37:24):
nice. It's natural for you to feel sad
and failure. Failure is.
Important. Yeah, dude, all that.
Like the negative emotions are just as important as the
positive ones. And if your life is full of
positivity, it's going to be hell.
And if it's full of negativity, it's going to be hell.
You got to find that perfect balance, you know, And then you
start to see things for the better side of it.

(37:44):
You know, like my car breaks down.
You're like, well, maybe it's time for me to get a new car.
Then you get a new car and you're like, well, you wasn't as
bad as it was. But when I was a drug addict, my
car breaks down. I'm my whole world's over.
Yeah. Yeah, right.
So then you start to think like,man, how many problems did I
deal with? Luxury problems is what you have
when you're sober. Like you, your car breaks down,

(38:06):
you get to go get a new one, youget to go get a new one.
Whereas before. You got fucked.
Yeah. You're like, what the fuck am I
going to do? Stop being.
High bud. Jesus.
So. OK, so big shoes carrying people
by his feet. What else did you see?
You said the fan motor. Oh.

(38:26):
Yeah, so dude, I've seen so I'veseen some wild stuff in prison.
Now, I don't know as far as whatI'm allowed to talk about on
here 'cause there's some pretty.I mean, you can talk about
whatever you want, like like tell it how you tell it.
OK, I'll use a different choice word but you don't understand

(38:47):
what I'm saying. So I didn't witness this, but I
very vividly listened to this and it was hard to not listen to
this happen. But near the end of my stint a
guy got graped with a broomstick.
OK, I'm going to assume that yeah, he was APDF file, OK and

(39:16):
mature he. Did something similar to his
victim and this, the gang, the Blood gang, found out about it
and they didn't sit well with him I guess.
And then like middle of the night, 2-3 in the morning, you
know, CE OS have like a schedulethat they follow.
And so like 2:00 AM is their walk time.

(39:37):
They walk through and then after2:00 AM, they don't come back
for like 2 hours. And they're just sitting up at
the desk. They're they got cameras, but
they're not watching those. They're just sitting up there
yapping. Fucking off.
Yeah, so these bloods sneak overto Dews rack and they hold him
down and they beat him up bad. I mean, I'm telling you, the
whole block heard this happeningand no one intervened.

(39:59):
And then the broomstick comes out and basically he got what
his victim got. Yeah, essentially.
I mean, can't say it's pretty fucking.
I mean, it's fucked up. Yeah, it's pretty traumatizing,
I'm not going to lie to you. I mean, yeah, I can't imagine
listening to a grown man. Yeah, And like, I'm not going to

(40:21):
sit here and act like I don't have a certain kind of hatred
for those kind of people, but I just don't think that anyone
really deserves that, man. Yeah, you know well.
He's already doing time. His life is already hell.
I mean, you could have just beathim up.
Yeah, right. Fucking beat him back to death,
dude. And that's better than what you
did to him. But they wanted to make a point

(40:43):
and they did. I'm sure they did, man.
And. Yeah.
God yeah, Going into that place as a pedophile or a chomo?
Not a good way to live in prison, is it?
No, it seemed pretty normalized near the end of my stamp.
You see a lot of stuff when you're in there for five years.
And when I first got the the prison I was in, it was quote UN

(41:07):
quote, kill Whitey, kill Columbus.
And there was a lot of. What is that like people were
saying that? Shit, yeah.
So kill Whitey, kill Columbus. It's basically saying that any
white boy is going to get his shit as soon as he gets there.
If you're from Columbus, this isthis is not a this is not a
Columbus. So they divide like inmates

(41:28):
divide the state in half. And Columbus is like the
borderline. So like anything South of
Columbus is southern Ohio, anything north of that as N Ohio
and they kind of beef with each other.
And so Belmont, which is where Iwent at the time, was a northern
camp and they were trying to cycle in some of the southern

(41:49):
Ohio guys in there. And I was up among one of the
first buses there. So it was very foreign.
There was like no one from Columbus there when I got there,
just the people that came there with me really.
And so you basically hear all these war stories, like as soon
as you get there, man, you're going to fight.
And I sure shit did when I firstgot there.
They followed us to the block. Like I'm telling you, 100 guys

(42:13):
followed us. There was probably 24 of us, 25
of us. I rode on for the bus.
You're carrying this big old metal box with fucking £85 worth
of shit in it, and you got to carry it a mile and a half
across the yard. And if you drop it, that's what
they tell you. If you drop that but don't drop
the box, whatever you do, do notdrop the box.
We just had someone on who was saying the same thing.

(42:35):
Yeah, because it shows that you're weak.
It shows a sign of weakness, youknow, and everything is like a
cat and mouse game of prey and predator in there, man.
So like, if you're not the predator, you're the prey.
And so you got to act like a predator or you're going to
become the prey. And so that's basically, you
know, that's what that message means.
Like you just expect that when you get there, if you're white

(42:58):
or you're from Columbus, you're going to fight.
And you better hope that's the worst of it, really.
That is wild. Yeah, like, like I said, they
followed us probably 100 deep man to the block and they have
this section called Ride and Rowand that's where they line up
the bus. The people that got off the bus
and you sit there for like a week until they move you to your

(43:19):
dorm, kind of like CRC, to kind of figure you out where you
belong there. But that's where all the shit
really hit the fan for me. It's like I sent my box down.
I told the story about me getting jumped by the Heartless
Felons. Like immediately after I dropped
my box, I'm getting jumped by somany guys that they're hitting
each other more than they're hitting me.

(43:39):
For dropping your box. Well, no, they were trying to
rob me. I had.
So I had some Timberland boots. That's right.
Yeah, they were grandfathered in, which means that they didn't
sell them anymore. And I had just bought the, like,
basically the last catalog of them.
You know, these are $100 boots that are now probably $500.00.
So everybody wants them. And I guess they see me wearing

(44:02):
them. And yeah, dude pulled up on me
like, hey, hey, little homie, I'm gonna need those.
And I'm like, no. And he just punches me and next
thing you know, we're fighting and I'm fall down in between the
box and the wall and they're kicking me and punching me and
I'm just like fetal position. There's nothing I can really do.
I mean, you're, yeah, you're screwed, yeah.

(44:23):
You've no chance. They just really beat me up
though. They didn't take my boots, they
didn't rob me for anything else.They just kind of beat me up and
left me alone. Did they?
So was there other Columbus guysor Columbus Whitey's that got
the same shit? Yeah, so not too long after all
that kind of happened, I'm laying on my rack and then this

(44:45):
guy runs down the riding rail and he's like, if you're from
fucking Columbus, it's your bitch ass in the bathroom.
And all of a sudden you see like20 guys jump up like, well, I'm
fucking Columbus and I'm going. And yeah, I, I just, I couldn't
just sit there. No, you can't.
Yeah, so like, I'm going in there too.
And when I walked in, dude, there were so many people in

(45:07):
there like you, you couldn't even fucking move.
Like it's shoulder to shoulder in there.
And the fight breaks out, Everybody's in there fighting
and people are punching each other like they're punching
their own friends and shit. Like it's just so many people in
there. And the CE OS what they do is I
don't think they knew how to maintain it.
So what they did is there's 2 doors to the bathroom and ACO

(45:28):
got on both doors. They open that one door and they
shot Mason there and closed the door again and they just kind of
gassed us for a second and let us all out.
When everybody's choking, they don't want to fight, you know?
When you were coming out, did they cuff you all up?
No, no, They just put the block on lockdown.
So they just basically restrict your movement.
You nobody gets to leave the block for any reason.

(45:49):
They bring your child to you andeverything.
And they did that for like a week.
You lose like privileges. Yeah, you don't get to.
You just basically don't get to go outside.
OK. Just take take your outside
away. Jesus.
Some people went to the hole. Yeah, that's you.
Know when there's fucking 85 people fighting?
How can you know? Yeah, yeah, it's.
Two, it's like 3 people went. They pick.

(46:09):
They pick out like the big. Dog, they're just figuring out
the guys they don't like, really.
Sent him to the hole. Did you ever go to the hole?
I did go to the hole a couple oftimes.
Nothing crazy like solitary or nothing like that, but I did go
to the shoe. I went to the shoe in the stand
up tank. I went to the regular tank in
the shoe Shoe a special housing unit if for those that don't

(46:32):
know. It's just an individual cell.
It's basically just a block, butit's supermax.
So you're basically you're living like you're in the
workhouse again, except it's just you and one other guy.
It's just you and other one other guy in the cell, but
you're on super Max lockdown. You get one hour.
So there was two guys. So it was two guys.
Per another guy, there's three guys to a cell, sometimes most.

(46:54):
Of the time is 2. I always thought it was just one
guy. Now there'll be a bed on the
floor, like a single bed and then there'll be a bunk and a
toilet and but most of the time it's only two guys in there.
It's only really three if they're like overcrowded.
Geez, yeah. What'd you go for?
Fighting. Just fighting, yeah.
Fighting the stand up tank. You go to the stand up tank for

(47:16):
like 4 hours if you like cuss the CEO.
What is the stand up tank? You do nothing but stand up in
there. It's a box where you have no
room to even sit. You stand the whole time.
What? Yep, it's just a glass box.
Like literally just enough for you to stand up.
They can watch you and. Yeah, you're right.
In front of their desk it's like4 cells and they call it taking

(47:36):
a tour because you're just sitting there watching the
whole. So you're just like taking a
tour of the whole? So you're just.
You know you're not staying in there.
Right, but you just have to stand for extra hours.
Yeah, yeah, kind of stood for like 4 hours the the first time
I. Went Is there like a sediment of
hours? Is it just like however they
feel? Yeah, so as far as I know, it's

(47:56):
just whenever they feel God, I mean, I'm sure they they like
have like a baseline, like you have to stay there for two hours
or whatever. But I've seen people sitting
there all day. Just standing, yeah.
You can like, sit down. You can sit down uncomfortably,
I guess. Very uncomfortably, yeah.
You're better off just standing up though, or like leaning or

(48:18):
whatever. I didn't know.
I didn't know that was a consequence.
I've never heard. That's the first time I've ever
heard that. Yeah, it's kind of like a little
bird feed, like here's your wakeup call, make you stand up here
for a minute, next you'll be in that cell over there, right?
You know, OK. Yeah.
It's kind of like one of those kind of deals.
Let's see what else? What else?
What else? What else happened?

(48:40):
Oh yeah, so with the fan motor and stuff along.
Those Yeah, yeah. Tell me about the fan motor
story. Well, I, I didn't really like
see that actually happen. I just saw the aftermath of
that, like the blood everywhere and that kind of city.
That's and that's got to be traumatizing.

(49:01):
Like, well, that that was not really so much traumatizing.
I was kind of strung out on methat that point in prison.
Yeah. So meth product, a lot of
problems for me in prison because I was twagged out and I
would do dumb shit. Like for instance, at one point
I got so strung out I was on like a eight day Bender.

(49:22):
I was. An 8 day Bender in prison?
Yeah. Yeah.
So you didn't sleep? No, yeah, no, holy.
That was regular for me at that point though, like week long
times like that. Yeah.
And I would just shoot tattoos, get a little money or you'd pay
me a meth, you know? And so that was really you.

(49:43):
Could just keep going. Yeah, and I would just shoot
tattoo. And like the thing about the
meth too is like it like unlock this creativity in me that I had
never seen before. And so like I would sit up for
days drawing and perfecting my like craft basically.
And so I got really good man. And it was like a like an
endless money glitch. Were you?

(50:04):
Were you like one of the top tattooers?
On. The block.
I blazed fast and and hard like I basically ran through tattoos
but on a skill level now. So you were like a volume guy,
like just as many guys as you could tattoo.
You tattoo, take some money. Yeah.
Chris, how do you do meth in prison?

(50:26):
I've seen it done every way thatyou would do it on the streets.
You know, most of the time people are just hot rant or not
hot railing, Sorry. Most of the time people are just
snoring it. But I've seen people come in
with a bubble, I've seen people hit it off of foil in there, all
kind of stuff. Fuck, do you get a bubble?
I don't know, that's a good question.
I don't know, you know, contraband comes in all kinds of

(50:47):
the same way people get cell phones or anything, you know, I,
I don't really know the specifics, you know, Cos don't
even really have to sneak stuff in most of the time and then a
glass thing ain't going like offin a metal detector or anything
like that. So.
Wouldn't be hard to bring in at all, right?
You think that most of the outside of the drug, well, not

(51:08):
even outside of the drugs. Do you think most of the
contraband comes from the Cos ordo you think it's like a 5050
split? I would say most of it comes
through Aramark. Really.
Yeah, you're familiar with Aramark.
Yeah, the food. I would say Aramark, that's
where most of the the sex is happening, that's where most of

(51:29):
the drugs are coming in, that's where most of anything, the cell
phones all. That OK?
OK, so how does that work 'causeyou would have to work in the
kitchen, right? Yep.
So you'd have to work in the kitchen then you'd have to
become buddies with the kitchen workers who are not working for
the state they're working for. Aramark is that.
Correct. Yeah.
So do you remember AG Rob? AG Rob Yeah.

(51:53):
Should I? He was there with me, he was in
prison with me and then we went there together.
He's a black dude. He had a kind of weird shaped
neck, if that help. That's the only descriptor I can
really give you. He kind of had like a bold neck.
I. Didn't know his nickname is
aggro. Yeah, so.
Yeah, So that I don't even remember his name, but he did

(52:16):
that. And while we were in prison
together and got his, got his sentence extended or actually I
think he that's what it was. I think he was going to get a
judicial release and it got cancelled because he got caught
doing that and he he had 12 years or something.
He was going to get out after 10and ended up having to do the
12:00 because of that. God, and you said the sex

(52:38):
happens there. That's what he did.
He went, he worked in the kitchen, he got close with one
of the ladies in there and then he.
Are these ladies like worth a shit?
I mean, I mean, dude, it's the same thing.
You. You, you.
You witnessed. I mean, yeah, I know, but like,
but like, it's just not. She wasn't normal.
Like she wasn't, in my opinion. I felt like she was a little
better looking than what you would normally get in a prison.

(53:01):
Yeah. Yeah.
You know what I mean? Yeah, Yeah, you could definitely
say that. But there's those there, too.
And they were, they were working, Yeah.
And they went to yeah. And they would just go excuse.
Me. You, I mean you obviously build
a rapport with them and and theywould just where do you have,
where do you do it? Same thing with that situation.

(53:25):
Wherever you fucking can. Yeah, that's what he did.
He he did that in the closet with her.
And he got busted. And then somebody came in the
closet to get supplies or something and caught them.
Yeah, inmate. Or no, I think it was AI think
it was an Aramark worker that caught the other Aramark worker,
yeah. So she lost her job.
Yeah, that's usually what happens.

(53:45):
They'll lose their job. He gets moved to a different
prison. Yeah.
And then of course, like I said,he he had the judicial and that
got squashed. But like, you don't necessarily
get in trouble for that. See I I was under the impression
that male and CE OS were like the main ways to get contraband
into a facility. Male used to be that kind of.

(54:07):
Got I started copying it. Right.
That got kind of squashed out when I was in prison because of
Tunchi or K2. Yeah, tell us.
Tell us about that shit. Did you ever do that shit?
Yeah. OK.
What the fuck is it? What is it?
Oh my God, so regrettable. I can imagine I've seen videos.

(54:29):
Yeah, it's pretty. I didn't get that crazy with it,
but I've witnessed that and it's.
'Cause dude, dude told us a story and he thought that it was
going to be like a cigarette type thing and it was this like
little tiny Pinner of nothing. And he was like, what the fuck
is this? Yeah.
It's like literally a toothpick.And then, well.

(54:50):
First of all, it's not even likean herb or anything.
So what they do is it's like, itcomes in like a bottle, like a
liquid bottle, almost like a spray bottle.
And then they take a sheet of paper, usually like construction
paper 'cause it's thick and it can soak up moisture without
tearing and shit. And so they'll spray that down
and hang it up until it dries. And you know that K2.

(55:11):
What are they spraying on? It the K2, it's like a
liquidized form of and that cures on the paper and then they
write a letter on the paper and send the paper in and then you
just cut the paper up, you know,'cause they think it's male, you
know what it really is and you just cut it up into slivers and.
Sell it and you just fucking eatit like.
A You can eat it. You can smoke it like we we

(55:32):
smoked it. Yeah.
So imprison the lighters that you make consist of a razor
blade and two batteries and probably tape to hold it
together. And what you do is when you put
the two blades on the positive and negative it, it makes a
conductor and it warms up hot red like a like a stove top.

(55:54):
And so you would just tap. You would basically get like a
needle or something, stick the paper, and then you'd have like
a tube and it's almost like you're smoking foil, you know,
and you just put the paper and burn up and you die.
And then what's the effect like?What do you feel 'cause I know
what I've seen it's. Very much like a like a
psychedelic mix with like an opiate.

(56:15):
Is it like you ever done Serbia?No, damn it, I wanted to because
to me, I want to know because I've done salvia and it seems
like a salvia type of thing where you're just like gone for
20 minutes or 15 minutes or whatever.
Yeah, it's way shorter than that, but yeah, yeah, that's,
that's the gist of it. Like you just lose
consciousness. Almost like I've seen people

(56:38):
drop to the floor concrete and start swimming.
Like they're fucking like they're drowning and they're
freaking out, you know, grabbingon the stuff.
And like it's almost like they're having a seizure, dude.
Like they cannot control them sothey don't even know what's
going on. But they're having visuals.
No, they're like, they're not there.
They're not there. That's what I'm saying, they're
having visuals that they're fucking water.

(56:59):
Or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, something.
So they're freaking. Out and that's that's that's
what I was about to say next is like when I did that, I don't
remember any of that. And so I don't think that they
remember or any of that. It's just kind of like a, you
feel real good. And then if you keep, it's
really more of like a progressive thing, like you can
do a little bit, but the more you do, the higher the chances
are that that's going to happen to you or you start freaking out

(57:20):
and shit. And for an addict, I mean.
Yeah, you're not stopped a little bit more.
I've seen a little bit more. I've seen people get stabbed
over K2. I've seen people call home and
tell their mom like they're going to kill me if you don't
send this money. Like people running up $1500 in
which in prison is might as wellbe 20 grand dude it's like 1500

(57:41):
in prison is crazy. It's like $20,000.
Yeah, like, literally people will kill you over that.
And I've seen these guys call home and beg their moms for
money and yeah, they're like full on breakdown.
Like, like how you would imaginelike a gambling addict asking
for help, you know, like just totally in shambles, begging so

(58:02):
that they don't get fucking wrangled in here over their own
addiction. And they will.
And they will. When with the stabbings, what
what did you see? What devices would they use or
how would they make Shanks like out of anything basically?
They're, they're militaristic with it.

(58:23):
They there's variations of all kinds of things, dude.
Like there's pokers, there's Hawks, there's swords, there's
they're. Named.
Yeah, dude, that's what I'm saying.
There's variations of all kind of things.
So like a poker would just be like a bed spring that would be
straightened out and they would hit you like 50 times with that
and all them punctures. It starts to get bad now, like a

(58:45):
hawk would be like a real knife.Like it would look like a like a
chef's knife. Like glass or like?
Or like broken metal, glass. I've seen like dude said on your
podcast the other day, can can tops.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
So they sharpen those up and. Yeah, 'cause just like he said,
they're, they're normal in there, You know, people use it

(59:08):
to cut up their meats and stuff like and Pickles and you know,
whatever. And it's sharp, dude, that's
fucking metal. And it only takes the right kind
of action to just, and you're wide open, dude.
I've seen people take toothbrushes, take all the
bristles off the toothbrush, break a break a razor and stick

(59:30):
razor blades to it, glue it, whatever.
And then they'll just run up andit's called $1.50, where kind of
like what he said we're do went from here to here, $1.50 is from
your forehead down to your chin.Yeah, marks you.
What is this called the? I don't know.
I don't. Know because I've seen people
with the scars from work. Yeah, I don't.

(59:51):
I don't. I'm not too sure.
I never saw that. Yeah, buck 50 from your forehead
to your chin and it marks you asbasically a fuck boy you're not
to be associated with. And that's shit's going to scar
up and there's nothing. Yeah, that's the whole point.
There's nothing you can do. Yeah, that's the whole point.
They want you to be marked forever so everybody knows who

(01:00:14):
you are. And generally, who would they do
that to? Like what types of people?
Like those kids that I was telling you run up to $1500 debt
and then don't pay and they're like, all right, motherfucker.
Well, you're going to learn to pay now, you know.
Because no ones going to fucking.
Yeah, no one can save you in here now.
Now you're mine. No ones going to fuck with you
either after this. Yeah, that's, yeah, that's

(01:00:35):
that's the whole thing is like, you know, I hit you with the
buck 50 and now everyone knows that you are not to be dealt
with, associated with you're basically exile.
Can't see the storm man. Can't get dope?
Can't. You're as bad as you're as bad
as a child molester at that point.
That's rough. Jesus.

(01:00:56):
Any other? Do you witness a stabbing?
Yeah, I actually got blood on mefrom a stabbing.
I was sitting on the phone talking to my dad and then it
happens right next to me, to theguy right next to me and he
freaks out. He gets hit in his stomach like
all up and down his side probably 10 to 20 times.
I don't really know, you know, but it was a lot.

(01:01:18):
Dude just kind of came up and and walked away and the guy got
up freaking out. He tried to grab the guy that
stabbed him, got blood all over him.
And one thing led to another where they were kind of like,
like fighting and chasing each other, kind of dudes running to
try to get help. And the blocks are set up, 3
rows for each. There's two sides.

(01:01:39):
So there's six rows in total. And the guy ran up and down each
row. It looked like a murder scene.
It looked like somebody had killed someone and drug a dead
body all through every row. Like it was just a big blood
smear through the whole block. Yeah.
So. He run up to ACL that like.
He ran. Yeah, he ran.
He was trying to run from the guy.

(01:01:59):
You was chasing him after you already hit him.
Yeah, so dude hit him and then he tried to walk away so he
didn't get caught and the guy grabbed him.
The guy that got stabbed grabbedhim and wiped blood all over him
and shit. So now he's in it and he's like,
all right, now I'm going to finish you, motherfucker.
And so he's chasing him and shit.
And yeah, dude ran trying to getaway from him until he basically

(01:02:20):
did and ran right to the CEOs. Lucky fucking is alive at that
point. He did live.
He'd. Go to the hospital.
Yeah, they have IHS in in house hospital.
That's where he went, this prison hospital, Yeah, for
getting stabbed, 20. Times.
Yeah. I mean, I don't know if he may,
he might have went to a hospitalafter that.

(01:02:41):
I don't know, 'cause I'm in the block, but as far as I know,
that's where he went, Yeah. And you you caught some
splatter. Yeah, I mean it was hard not to
do to everyone did. Like there's blood all over,
beds all up and down every Rd. Who cleans that shit up?
They have hazmat crew like it's inmates.
They have a hazmat crew that does that for that reason and

(01:03:02):
it's inmates. They come in with like hazmat
gear with PPE and they clean it up.
Damn. God damn.
OK, so you 411, four years, 11 months.
There's something with that, right?
If it's five years. Yeah, so you.
Have to do the whole 5 at a 411 you can get judicial correct?

(01:03:24):
So when did you get to put in for your first judicial or like
how did that look? Yeah, so I got very unlucky in
some regards. Some of it was my fault too.
Like I said, I was in fights andstuff.
I'm getting in trouble and all that.
Documented. Yeah.
So some of it is my fault for sure.

(01:03:47):
Tricky thing that kind of happened after all that or
during all that really. So I had one judge, Judge
Sheeran, and then he retired during my trial.
And so I got a new judge, Judge Brown and Joe Brown.
And Sheeran had promised me thatif I went in there for 180 days

(01:04:12):
and then I did what I was supposed to do.
Like he gave me like basically alist of things to do.
Like applied for college and I get your GED and like shit like
that. He said if I went in there and
handled my business, which I did, other than the getting in
trouble and shit, I went in there and did all that and then
so I filed in 180 days. But like just before I had filed

(01:04:35):
is when I got the new judge and he was not.
So Sheeran was a drug court Judge Brown.
Brown was not. OK 'cause McIntosh took over for
Sheeran, probably during he tookover ties court for Sheeran
cause Sheeran started ties courtso he was big on helping
addicts. Right.
Yeah, OK. So he was giving me that chance.

(01:04:57):
Why he was giving me OK? He was telling me, like, look,
you don't look like you belong in the system, basically, you
know, and I'm gonna give you a chance.
You're going to prison. You've made some fucking
mistakes, you're gonna pay for them.
But if you go in there and you prove that you're not just some
fucking criminal, then I'll let you out.
And long, Long story short, Joe Brown was not the same kind of

(01:05:18):
guy. And he saw my rap sheet in there
and he saw I was already fighting and stuff and declined.
And I kept filing every six months.
And it was just decline, decline, decline.
You got to wait six months in between.
And the, the fucked up thing about it too is like, you know,
when you get to prison, it's going to be hectic at 1st and
you're going to have to fight. It's just, it's just inevitable.

(01:05:40):
There's, there's no avoiding it.Like there's just not.
You could be the coolest guy in the world and someone's going to
fucking look at you and just be like, this guy's not.
Yeah, fuck this guy. Fuck this guy, you know, and so
you're going to just have you'regoing to have to stand up for
yourself. And so I didn't really have a
choice. But after you people started to
realize that like you'll fight back and stuff, they leave you

(01:06:01):
alone. And so as the years went on, I
didn't get in as much trouble orat for the last three years, I
didn't get in any trouble at all.
None, not even a ticket. And he just wasn't trying to
hear it, man. He just didn't want to give me
the chance. And so you did the whole.
So I did. Four years and like 6 months in

(01:06:23):
prison and then I did my last three and three and a half, four
months there. OK.
So when you got out, were you under the impression you were
going home or did you think you know you were going to another
facility? No, I thought I was going home.
I, I got a paper in the mail that said judicial granted and

(01:06:46):
my release date and everything. I can't recall if maybe I was
just super excited and I didn't read it all or if it didn't say
or what, but it, I don't remember.
I don't recall seeing that I hadto go to CBCF.
So Long story short, I'm waitingon my update, super excited and
shit. And then I call home and I asked

(01:07:08):
my mom like, you're coming to pick me up, right?
And she's like coming to pick you up.
Yeah. I'm like, what are you, you're
confused. Like, I'm getting out today and
she's like, well, your transcripts say that you're not
getting out today, you're getting out in four months.
That's how you found out. And I, I almost, I don't think I

(01:07:28):
really believed it. Like, I got this paper here,
it's telling me I'm getting the fuck out.
What are you talking about? And that out date to Marshalls
showed up to take me there. So that's kind of when I was
like, damn, yeah. What was your what was your
first and when did you get there?

(01:07:48):
To the, to my facility, yeah, where I was working.
COVID. Was it COVID?
It was like right after COVID, 'cause I think COVID is the
reason why I got the judicial. I think he wouldn't even gave it
to me at all if it wasn't for COVID.
Sounds like he wouldn't have. Yeah, right.
So I think COVID was like just like just kind of starting to
die down a little bit when I gotthere 'cause we didn't have any

(01:08:10):
protocols or anything when I wasthere other than like strict
movement. Yeah, no masks and that's not
bad. Did you, do you think you took
anything substantial from prisonitself?
Like legitimately things that you can use in the real world?

(01:08:31):
Like what would those things be?Yeah, without trying to boast or
anything, man, I've always been really invested in learning and
like trying to get better. And, you know, I'm very self
aware of who I am. And like, even when I was doing
the fuckery and all that shit, I, I knew what I was doing.

(01:08:53):
I just didn't want to believe it, if that makes sense.
Like I didn't want to believe that I was a bad guy, but I knew
what I was doing. And I think, man, I just kind of
was looking for like a guy like some kind of guidance.
And I kind of looked for the guys that would just stay to
themselves, The kind of guys that looked like, like me, where

(01:09:14):
they would kind of watch things and not necessarily get involved
in things. And you could tell that they
would like think things through and shit like that.
And so those are the kind of guys I grab it toward,
gravitated towards and spending some time with them.
I picked up a lot of things fromthese guys.
Most of a couple of them were mybunkies.
And I would sit up and I'll talkto these guys all night and they
would tell me, you know, like one of them told me like, dude,

(01:09:38):
I've been watching you since yougot here.
And if you keep acting like you're acting you're somebody's
going to kill you in here, Like Jet, like, legitimately dead
ass, told me that with a straight face on, a straight
look on his face, like he was dead serious.
Like, dude, someone will kill you in here.
And that kind of resonated with me a little bit.
Like, it made me stop for a second.
Like, damn, it's that serious. And yeah, because at that point,

(01:10:00):
I don't think I've seen any of the crazy shit.
Yeah. Like I just seen people fighting
and, you know, it's like jail, right?
And that kind of made me stop and think about it.
And then later on down the line,I ended up getting another
bunkie. And he was a dude from Chicago,
didn't know nothing or nobody here.
And so he did stayed to himself.And he was real cool dude.
Same kind of demeanor where he kind of thought about

(01:10:22):
everything. And he told me one day, like,
basically, man, you need to takea step back and look at things,
look at everything with more detail than just kind of going
running a gun. And he's like, that's your
problem, man. You're running a gun.
You're reacting instead of acting, basically.
Yeah, he's like, you got to be calculated with the things that

(01:10:43):
you're doing, man, because you don't necessarily see the
repercussions of what you're doing until they're happening to
you. Now, if you're a seasoned, if
you're a vet in this shit, then you know that that those things
don't even come around if you act accordingly.
And so that's the kind of what Iwas picking up from him.
You know, like don't put yourself in in drama and there

(01:11:03):
won't be drama If if you don't, you don't get yourself in debt.
No one's going to come looking for money.
You don't fucking mess with gangs.
There's no never, never going tobe a fucking rival coming to get
you, you know, like you just gotto be on your piece and Q's to
think about shit before you fucking do it.
And that's kind of like the turning point for me because I
was like about halfway through my sentence where I was kind of
like, man, maybe I shouldn't sitback and learn some shit, man.

(01:11:27):
Instead of just trying to be thetough guy all the time, prove
that I'm this fucking for nothing to a bunch of dudes that
are going to be in a revolving door.
Like the I'm never going to see these guys again, you know, and
I haven't, I've never seen none of these guys again.
You're the only one that I've seen from the incarceration.
And I wasn't even fucking incarcerated.
At the time. Right.

(01:11:49):
That's what's crazy. So like I'm never going to see
these dudes again, man. I don't need to impress these
guys and. Were you on drugs up until that
point? The 2 two years.
Yeah, yeah. Then did you stop using?
After that. No, OK, no, no.
Drugs are tricky, man. You can, you can be pretty

(01:12:09):
sophisticated with all the, the things that you need to do and
not have the, the, the goal to follow through with it, you
know? Well, you mentioned the K2, but
and then we were talking about. How'd you?
Get the bubble in. But the meth thing, yeah.
How? How you had your benders, I

(01:12:30):
mean, how bad off were you? Like compared to the streets?
Worse. Worse.
Yeah, I I first of all, I've never done meth on the streets.
OK. The only thing I really ever
really I would say that I got invested in on the streets were
opiates. You know, I've done coke and,
you know, odd things here and there.
A little experiment here, a little experiment there.

(01:12:52):
But most of my thing for the streets was opiates.
And when I got in prison, I was just such a lost soul dude, that
like I was just looking for any way out.
And so I would take anything, you know, I just go to the the.
IT also didn't help that, like, my best friend in prison was the
plug and, like, he was thirsty for tattoos.
And so we kind of enabled each other.
That's perfect. Yeah.

(01:13:13):
I'm giving you tattoos. You're giving me my high.
And we're going to be best buds forever, you know?
Yeah. So yeah, that's ideal.
Yeah. And what about Suboxone?
So Suboxone was the first thing that I got addicted to in
prison. Ironically, Suboxone is the
biggest drug in prison. That's the scariest thing to me,
and I've said this on probably 10 podcasts.

(01:13:34):
Like getting strung out in prison sounds terrifying to me
because you can rack up debt andthen you're in a lot of trouble
and either that or you're dope sick because you don't have your
suboxone. Did you find yourself in a
situation? Like that.
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
Oh yeah. See, I was a little bit smarter

(01:13:58):
as far as the debt thing. I, I wouldn't let myself go too
far because I knew the consequences, you know, So I
would basically just push that border of do I fuck this guy up
or do I kind of let him breathe a little, you know, And I think
I kind of dodged a lot of problems from that just alone.
Also, I'm a pretty friendly dude.
I'm pretty cool, you know, and Ican kind of vibe with anyone and

(01:14:21):
so like I can kind of talk my way out of some situations and
stuff too. But there's been time.
I got jumped one time over Owen for a strip and they beat me up.
They basically stuffed me under some urinals, like they were
kicking me and shit while I was underneath some urinal.
I couldn't even get out. Yeah, over 1 Suboxone.

(01:14:44):
But it is important to know thata Suboxone strip in prison at
the time was $200 and 200. Like I said previously, $200 is
a lot of money in prison. It's like $1000 Really.
You know, I've seen people get slapped to sleep, throwing
money. I've seen, yeah.
Open hand. Yeah, I've seen people get put

(01:15:04):
in a net bag. You know the big.
No. Yeah, you know the big yeah,
yeah, I've seen someone get put in the net bag and drug around
the whole. Pod for hours no dude for hours
no. CE OS seeing it and everything.
Hours. Hours.
Just fucking into the circle. Dude, they would hang him on a
rack in the bag they would hang him on.

(01:15:27):
I swear, dude, I swear. No, I swear.
And I'm telling you like they would drag they drug dude around
the the pod and the CEO saw it and they asked like, what the
fuck are you guys doing? This guy owes money.
Cool. Just turn the other cheek head,
whatever makes sense. You'll learn.
Yeah. David hanging hanging him on the

(01:15:49):
rack is crazy. Dude, yeah, just imagine you're
like this in a fucking bag. That is the most embarrassing,
shameful like thing I can possibly think of.
Like. Beat my ass.
Please, please beat my ass. Don't put me in that.
Bag Audrey. Yeah.

(01:16:09):
Laundry clothes. Yeah, it's like a big nylon.
But for a human to fit in there,I mean, you really got to get, I
mean, like, I don't know if I could fit in a fucking nut bag.
I don't know if you could fit ina nut bag.
You would fit in a nut bag. They make you fit.
They'd make you fit OK. So I would fit in a nut bag.

(01:16:31):
Yeah, that's like one of the most shameful things I have ever
heard in my life. Holy shit, dude, yeah, like a
lot. You're just in a laundry bag for
hours. Like, yeah, you'd learn your
lesson for sure. There's people that.
There was this dude that it was getting punked out so bad that
they made him sleep underneath of the the bunk, underneath the

(01:16:52):
bunk bed, like him and it so like his Bunky.
Yeah. So like in my block, I was in a
privileged block At the end of my sentence, it was like like if
you're doing good, you're not getting tickets and shit.
You can be in this block. It's like an honor dorm
basically. You don't have to deal with like
most of the shit that. You no bullshit.
Yeah, not as much. Right, Right.

(01:17:13):
It's still prison, but it's a lot better than the rest of the.
Blocks. OK, so you saw a dude get
crammed under a rack. No, not, not crammed in there.
That's that was his bed OK? Yeah, that's where he slept.
So did he like? So, and like I said, I was in
this honor dorm for the last couple years of my prison

(01:17:34):
sentence and we had cubicles in there, medical metal cubicles,
you know, like an office cubicle.
Oh really? And it divided each bunk from me
from the next. OK.
So you couldn't see in the rack unless you were going in the
rack? Were the racks single racks?
Yeah, yeah, single racks. That's nice.

(01:17:56):
Yeah, single racks. It was basically like a wall
here and another wall to kind oflike block in the bed.
And so you couldn't see in thereunless you like basically walked
in there and the the guy was just, I don't know if he was a
sex offender or what. He just didn't look like he
belonged. And I guess him and his bunky

(01:18:16):
got into it one night snoring orsomething of that nature,
something to do with the dudes sleeping.
And he told him, like, dude, you're either going to have to
move or you're sit or you're sleeping under here and the dude
wasn't going to move. He was scared to leave that
block because if you ask for a move, they could move you out
the block. And if you move out and you know
when you're a guy like him and you can get out the honor block,

(01:18:37):
man, you're probably fucked. Yeah, you want to stay in that?
Block. Yeah, yeah.
So he's I guess took it and stride and started sleeping
under the rack. So he just pulled his mat down
under the rack and. Just until the CE OS caught on
to that. That was for a couple of days,
yeah. And what the CE OS do anything
the? CE OS I think they finally
caught on to him was just like what the fuck is going on here?

(01:18:58):
Like do we need to separate you guys as far as I know?
You're out of it. It just.
Went yeah, I'm always involved. You're not involved, so it's
those two. So what the fuck do the does the
guy? I guess that's what I was going
to say, that I guess they made amends or something because it
just went back to normal after that.
Nobody got in trouble or anything.
Didn't want to get into it. Maybe they just told him like

(01:19:19):
salt settle this shit or you guys are both going to the hole,
you know, or whatever and they just worked out I guess.
I keep thinking back to the net bag bro.
The net bag's crazy, man. I just keep thinking back to
being put in the net bag dog andwhat that would do to myself
esteem for the rest of my life that would stick with me

(01:19:40):
forever. That is that shit is wild.
OK, so you got your your 4 and 11.
You get your judicial and you'recalling your mom like yo mom.
You're coming to get. Me out getting out today you're
coming to get me and she's like what no, you're going to another

(01:20:03):
facility and what what was your reaction to that like how what I
mean well I. Was pissed, as you can imagine.
I was sitting here thinking thatI got lied to and I've been
taken advantage of because you, you also think that in my head
at at least at the time, maybe even still a little bit now, I

(01:20:24):
felt like the system had kind ofrobbed me a little bit.
Like they gave me 5, almost fiveyears for a crime that I've seen
countless people. I grew up in the hood, so
countless people I've seen go toprison for burglary.
All of them, virtually all of them. 1-2 years.
I was going to say 3 most years at most maybe, and I'm getting

(01:20:45):
double that. And that's your first, first.
Yeah, the first. Time offender yeah, so I already
had feel like I got robbed and then and then on top of that I
ended up doing my whole bid damnnear.
And Sheeran would have kept his word and.
Sheeran was a good guy, he definitely.
Would have kept his word, yeah. He definitely would have kept
his word. I feel like he also would have
even known that, like, prison isprison.
You, you know, you're gonna get into some shit in there.

(01:21:08):
Brown was just not. I talked to, I interviewed Judge
McIntosh and I was asking him questions and he said when he
first became a judge, he went toevery single prison in the state
of Ohio and took a tour. So he knew.
See what he was sending people? To where he was sending people,
Yeah. And what they were getting into.

(01:21:28):
There's some. Pretty fucking bad prisons too,
like North Central. And I'm sure that like
everything was all cleaned up. I'm sure the CEO is.
Like. There's a judge coming through
like let's make sure we're fucking.
We're on our PS and QS. But he did do that.
He at. Least did his due diligence.
Yeah, exactly. But yeah, that fucking, that

(01:21:50):
must have sucked, dude, that must have sucked.
But like, I, I mean, I think I remember telling you like dog,
you're at the end. You got like a couple months
like. I think another thing that
really that really hurt me aboutit too is so that year I ended
up getting out to answer your question earlier, I I came there

(01:22:11):
in September of that of 21. My little brother had died
August. Of 21.
That's right. So that's right.
I was like literally just dealing with my little brother
dying tragically. And that was my guy.
That was my man, you know, that's who I was basically going
to go out and kick it with on a regular basis.
That was my rappy. So him dying already had me

(01:22:33):
fucked up. And then I'm thinking I'm going
home. Like I'm going to be there for
my with my family and for my family.
And really it's months away. So they're all grieving the
mourning together. I'm alone, you know, they're all
in their shit. So I can't even call them and
vent to them because they're they want someone to vent to.
And so it was just really rough,man.

(01:22:53):
Like I was really in a dark place when I first got there.
And then the guys that you guys ended up putting me in the cell
with, I think that's kind of what made me like tone it down a
little bit because I was lookingat these guys like, man, these
guys are fucked up. These guys are way worse than
me. Acting, acting.

(01:23:14):
And they're this is normal for them.
And like, I don't want to be that.
I don't want to be normal. I don't want this to be my
reality bro. No, not at all.
I think that's why I gravitated towards, you know, talking with
you a lot too. That's how I felt when I was
locked up there because it was like to me, staff was normal.

(01:23:37):
And like, I remember vividly this one day, the end of this
one of the CEO shifts, she grabbed her backpack, took her
shit, left, went went home. And I remember watching her do
that. And I was so jealous, like
immensely jealous of watching this normal human who had a job,

(01:24:00):
a good job, leave and to go home.
And decompress and relax. And eat dinner and fucking
listen to music, see the people they love.
Yeah. And it was just like, damn, bro.
Like places like this, I thoughtthey were built for people like
me for a really long time, like institutions.

(01:24:20):
I thought it was just going to be, you know, one.
It was inevitable. I was going to see prison one
day. Like, you know, real prison.
But I remember I remember watching that dude and it was
just like, man, I would give anything.
I would give anything to be ableto go home right now and and be
with my family. But we also had done so much

(01:24:41):
damage. You and I both that like when
you get home, it's not like it'snot, I mean it is kind of, but
like you. Still got some amends to.
Me. You got some shit to fix, you
know what I mean? Yeah, it's not all hunky Dory.
And so to your point, it makes sense that you would talk to me

(01:25:01):
because I was normal, so to speak.
You know what I mean? Like you don't have many
options. I think another thing too, man,
that that like, you know, when you're in jail, you hear a lot
of the same shit being perpetuated.
Oh my God. You know, and like, I would talk
to you and you would give me a different spin on things, like,
man, like you would help me realize things, you know, like,

(01:25:27):
like how you were just talking like, I'm about to go home,
dude, you're stuck here. Are you OK with that?
You know, yeah. And and that's the type of shit
that I'm like, man, no, I'm not OK with this.
No, not at all. It's not.
You don't control anything aboutyour life.
Yeah. That's that place was worse than
prison really, because it's justso controlled.

(01:25:49):
Yeah, like I. Mean it's like it's almost like
prison where you have a little bit of freedom more than the
workhouse, but it's still very structured where like you're
micromanaged to the the 9:00. Like more in count, for
instance, the guys who would have to go take a piss, yeah.
Like. You better hold that shit or
such and you're getting written up for out of place.

(01:26:09):
Especially during count. I think during count it was like
a Level 3, so like that's. You could get terminated.
For that, you could literally goback to prison.
Yeah, which is fucking nuts, butI'm glad I was able to connect
with you there and, like, help you.
That's because that was my goal.That's what I said to do.

(01:26:31):
It wasn't to go in there and be a Dick head and, you know, Big
Chew, you and Mace, you and I inthe cafeteria.
But yeah, what what else do you think you took anything else
from from that place? I mean, it was there.
I know it's a, you know, short four or five months, but do you

(01:26:52):
think there was anything you took from some, any of the
classes, any of the fucking anything like?
You know what something I did kind of think of how I want to
say this, something I took from one of the teachers there, if

(01:27:15):
you can call her that, was to take things a little bit slower.
And so by that, what she meant and basically how she broke it
down was if you're always in a hurry to get somewhere, then
you're going to hurry up and getthere.
And it might not always be the destination that you want, you
know, And that was kind of my story.

(01:27:35):
My whole life is like I was always hurrying up to get to the
next place, to get to the next thing.
And it landed me in fucking prison.
And it very well, it could have ended my life on on very many
occasions, I could have lost my life not only just from
overdoses, but just from the environment that I subjected
myself to. Did you have overdoses when you

(01:27:56):
were out there before prison? Yeah dude, when I got out I
overdosed several times. Yeah 'cause I if I didn't really
like I said I'm celebrating 3 years clean just like last week
so. Just last week, yeah.
Congrats. Thanks.
That's sweet. God, that's sweet.
Three years, dude, From a guy out of that facility.

(01:28:18):
Rare. Yeah.
Rarer than you could ever imagine.
Oh, I'm sure. Trust me, I'm seeing a lot of
them. Like, I haven't hung out with
any of those guys, but I do keepin touch with a lot of them.
Yeah, maybe me and one other guythat I.
Can think of our boy. That you're thinking of the same
guy I'm thinking. Tall guy T, is he cool?

(01:28:38):
Yeah, yeah, OK. He's actually the only one that
I will actually have a conversation with.
I'm trying to get him on here because I know he's got some
grades so I'm sure he's got somefucking oh.
Dude, if you think my stories are crazy, that dude's got some
shit. I'm sure.
Oh yeah, sure. You guys all trade it.
Yeah, because, you know, me and him were like this in there even
more than I was with my bunkies.We were from the same

(01:29:00):
neighborhood, know the same people, all that grew up in the
same area and everything, same age, all that.
So me and him really connected in there and he he was a lot
like me, where he didn't want this to be like his fucking
normal life. He didn't want to be in jail and
prison and shit. And he just had made some
mistakes. And, you know, he had a good
head on his shoulders. Shoulders, though, and he's

(01:29:21):
always wanted to do better. And that's why I gravitated.
A lot of you guys did in that group.
I mean, well, I hate to say it like that because there's like
60 of you, but they felt like there was like 10 of you that
had a good head on your shoulders. 10 maybe, yeah.
I think we were super connected in there too.
A lot of us became real tight inthere it.
Was a good group. It was a good group, decent
group. You guys listened and like

(01:29:43):
didn't give me shit and I didn'treally have to be an asshole
that often. It was kind of nice.
You had it pretty lucky, like half of the dorm had already
been to prison and then half of them were like the young guys
that had that were probably on their way.
But the guys that went to prison, they, they made it

(01:30:04):
easier on you because, you know,when you've been to prison, you
just kind of hang out. You don't fucking.
You're going home, dude. You're in.
You're going home. Yeah.
What the fuck? So, yeah, then guys like those
guys that I was in the cell with, other than that shit, for
the most part, them guys didn't get any shit, you know, just

(01:30:24):
kind of stay to themselves. And then like the the other
dude, Bravo, I don't remember his name, but he looked like
Johnny Bravo. Think of these people, dude.
God. Damn those dudes like him and
his little group. They had all basically been to
prison except for maybe a coupleof them, and they kind of just
stayed to themselves and hung out and didn't start nothing.
Even with that being a lower or a minimum security prison,

(01:30:48):
technically that that is what itis.
There was still shit going on inthere that you witnessed.
Watch if if you don't mind sharing.
There was, I know. There was, well, there was Fat
Boy S, yes, who I picked on relentlessly.
He was my kind of target. I love, I loved fucking with

(01:31:10):
him. But you guys had cell phones and
fucking yeah. And there was some other shit
that went down. If you could some insight there.
And I missed it. I fucking missed it.
Long story short, basically whenwhen we first got there to that

(01:31:34):
that minimum, you can tell rightaway who's been to prison, who's
not. And we were all sitting at that
table. And then when you're basically
getting received in. Yeah, we all were talking and
joking and fucking talking shit.And we found out that we had all
been in prison. So when we got to the dorm, we
all asked to be in the same celltogether.
And so that's where that kind ofstarted at.

(01:31:56):
We all kind of realized that like, you know, when you go to
prison, you're not telling on nobody.
Fucking stick in your nose, you.Want to be with another convict?
Well, not even that. You just, you know, better than
to stick your nose where it doesn't fucking belong, right?
And so like we can be in the same cell, but buddy, I'm
minding my business. And so that's kind of how it
was. We minded our business and he
did his little thing and if he wanted to involve us and we'd be
like, all right, cool, involve us.

(01:32:17):
But other than that, we're goingto stay the fuck out of it
because it's not our business. But Long story short one of the
guys that was in my cell he he was a smooth talking guy and he
roped off of female. He was smooth.
He was a smooth talker. He really was.
Yeah, he's good. He was good.
He's a fucking meth kingpin. I mean, yeah.

(01:32:40):
He was good. He yeah.
So he roped her off and basically me and my other Sally
kind of covered for him. And you're a It happened staff.
Member A female staff member, yeah.
Yeah, and she was bringing us stuff in, brought him in a cell
phone, bringing us candy and regular real food.

(01:33:02):
Like she brought him like a fucking Thanksgiving dinner at
once. Like it was like a legitimate
BIG4 course meal. That she probably cooked.
That she cooked, I'm sure, and probably masqueraded it as this
was her food and then gave it tohim on some slick shit.
Jesus. And so, like, we got to reap the
rewards of that stuff, you know,we got to eat some of that.
She got to play on the phone a little bit, like, yeah.

(01:33:24):
But yeah, I knew it was going tocome crashing down.
I've seen it all happened plentyof times before.
It never lasts. It didn't.
He fucking snuck out. Yeah.
And then that, that was like a right in my face example of
watch what you're doing or you'll go back.

(01:33:45):
You know that like, like if you keep doing the same shit, you're
going to get the same results? Well, at one point we were on to
it. At one point we knew there was a
cell phone. That's what I'm saying is like,
you're seeing the whole fucking block get torn up for a cell
phone. You're the only one in here with
a cell phone. Yeah, like, brother, you're
you're being a criminal right now.
Dude. You're going to go right back.
And what did he do? He went right back.

(01:34:07):
Yeah. I mean, had we found a cell
phone in that room that day, that would have been pinned on
both of you. Oh yeah, we knew that.
For sure. Oh.
Yeah, we knew that. You know, I didn't really have a
whole lot to lose. I only had two months left.
If I went back, I was going to do the same amount of time,
whatever. And DC didn't he just.

(01:34:29):
That was his life. He.
Just didn't give a fuck. He just didn't give a.
Fuck and then you said you covered for him in a different
situation. Same lady, same girl, same CEO.
Cleaning the foyer. You're cleaning the foyer and he
managed to get it in with the CEO or something, something of
the sort. Is exactly that.

(01:34:51):
So as you know, the CE OS come around every night, right around
like maybe like an hour before we all lay down before lights
out and they pick, you know, like two or three guys to go out
and clean the area that we're not normally allowed in.
And so when you're out there, you're not allowed in that area.
And so no one's really watching you either.

(01:35:12):
And so me and buddy just kind ofcleaned and they snuck off and
we knew what it was so we just didn't say anything.
Yeah, it's none of your business.
Yeah, exactly. You don't stick our nose where
it don't belong, so we just let it happen.
I wouldn't say that we necessarily covered for him, but
we definitely didn't tell. Yeah, right.
And we just kind of. Like, well, I mean, how could
you even let him know anyway? It's like wherever they sneak

(01:35:33):
off to, it's. Like also, why would we care
either? Yeah, I mean you.
Could distract a staff member I suppose or something but like.
I mean, the only dude we had to worry about was the guy in the
box. Yeah, yeah, Central control.
Yeah. And I mean.
He's why would he even watch? Dude, we're not.
There's three of us not doing. Anything he can see you?
Yeah, Through the fucking. All you got to do is turn and

(01:35:55):
you see this. You just say I don't think his
attention was really there. It's crazy.
That's crazy, man. People are people are fucking
crazy. And just to think like prison
men, even in a minimum, that shit happens.
Like, I don't know, I can't, I can't imagine getting roped off
like that, having a good job. And like how embarrassing, dude,

(01:36:19):
like to get fucking fired for that.
Like holy shit. For banging another inmate.
And I, I, I say that like it's derogatory, but it's not because
I was an inmate and you were an inmate.
And like, you know, at the end of the day.
Yeah, well, I mean, we're still.People.
We're still people. Yeah.
We're just fucking people. But you got to have a little

(01:36:40):
level of professionalism. Yeah, that's your job exactly.
Come on. Like wait till he maybe gets out
and like some time goes by. That's another thing is like,
like we were all three getting out in like two or three weeks
at that once they got caught. Dude.
And he went back to prison instead of going home in three

(01:37:02):
weeks. Oh my God, yeah.
Oh, I'd be sick. I'm sure he was.
Oh so. It's terrible.
It's terrible. So you get through that program
and you get out and you. And it spirals again, real bad
and actually. Your brother.
Your little brother, Yeah. Yeah, I just couldn't.

(01:37:24):
I couldn't take that. And then I I also felt like I
got out to the real world. And I'm sure a lot of people
that have been to prison and done an extensive time can
attest to this. Like, you don't feel like you
belong in the real world anymoreeither, you know?
And so like, everyone's carryingon with their lives and I'm just

(01:37:44):
sitting here like, man, what thefuck do I do with myself?
You want to be normal? Yeah.
It's like that feeling of wanting to be normal.
You watch the guy watch walking the dog and you're like, man,
he's normal. Yeah, I'm not.
Yeah, just kind of like how you were saying about the CEO.
You're watching her leave and you're sitting here like, man,
what am I supposed to do now? Yeah, so and then, you know, you

(01:38:06):
got you got to be kind of hardened in in jail and prison
and stuff too. So I think I bottled up a lot of
my emotions and. Brought that with you when you
got out and. Then when I got out, it kind of
overwhelmed me a little bit. Yeah, because you can't just go
fucking fighting and stabbing and fucking living in that
fucking war zone net bagging people fucking when you get out

(01:38:28):
of prison. Like, you can't just do that
shit. That's not what normal people
do. Like, because I remember the
same thing, like the anger, anger issues when I got out and
I was in and out, but I just remember the anger issues from
all the fighting. And it's like, you know, you can

(01:38:49):
go back to jail for that. Yeah, like.
That's not how. That's not how adults handle
things. No, not at all.
Did you you pick back up? Yeah, worse off than ever.
So really, Yeah, this is when I experimented with fentanyl.
OK. And that got its hooks in me

(01:39:09):
deep. I'm actually kind of very
surprised that I haven't made itout of that.
Were you IV? No, no, I was smoker, snort,
smoker, snorke. I did a little Ivy with the
heroin and stuff, but like when I was doing the heroin, I became
like a slave to the needle more than the dope.
Yeah. And so like when I finally got
free of that shit I was doing. Oh, the.

(01:39:30):
Ritual of the Needle is. Yeah, dude, it was more about
the fucking push of the needle. Sacred.
Yeah, Yeah. And I was like, so once I put
that down, I didn't want to pickthat back up.
I knew what that was. I guess I could kind of convince
myself that I could control it better with the other ways it
started. Small man like I think I went, I

(01:39:51):
think I went out and partied with my buddies.
How long did you last? Like how long did you stay
sober? Couple days.
No, it was probably month 2, month 3 maybe.
OK. But not long.
In retrospect, not long. Yeah, maybe more than most.
Yeah. I was very secluded.
I'm from the hilltop, central Columbus.

(01:40:12):
And when I got out of prison, my, my parents lived in
Delaware, which is in the middleof fucking nowhere.
So like, I didn't have the access that I once had.
So it was probably easier for meto manage it a little bit better
there. And then when I moved back out
West, that's when I started hanging out with the same people
I used to hang out with. And, you know, you get welcome
home and people are offering shit.

(01:40:32):
And like, you know, at first it started with people like telling
me, like, don't do this, don't do that.
You're good, bro. And you're on, you know,
whatever. And I was on probation, I was on
parole. So I'm like, they're all telling
me like don't do this, don't do that and just have a drink.
Just have a drink, smoke this weed.
And I'm a drug addict. So it started with me drinking
and then it went to the coke andthen it went from coke to fetty.

(01:40:54):
And once I it's like literally once I tried the fetty, it was
over with dude. Like I just immediately fell so
deeply in love with that feelingthat like.
Was it different than is it different than heroin?
Yeah, yeah. Yes and no.
Yes and no. Like I'm, I'm assuming there was

(01:41:16):
a point in my using career whereI got a bag of heroin and it was
fentanyl. I'm sure of it.
I'm sure of it, but I didn't know it.
Same thing with. Percocet yeah, but like, I
don't, I never sought it out. So I don't know a time.
I I don't know what it feels like per SE and how it's

(01:41:37):
different than heroin. So it's really kind of the same.
There's a lot more work. Short, shorter legs, right?
Doesn't last as long. There's a lot more work in in
being a fentanyl addict. It doesn't feel quite as good.
It does feel good euphorically, but overall, like systematically

(01:41:57):
through your life. It's not you're like heroin, you
know, you can do a shot of heroin and you'll be good for
half a day, go to sleep, wake upand still not be sick.
That is not the case with fentanyl.
If I smoke right now, in two hours I will be.
Sick 2 hours, 2 hours that's. For me, because I was doing like

(01:42:18):
gram or better, some people can get it to last like 4 hours.
Gram. Yeah, dude, I smoked a gram
straight to the face. Of Fetty.
Yeah, before I, before I went torehab.
Holy shit. Yeah, that's a lot like on the
way to rehab. How the fuck yeah 2 two hours to

(01:42:39):
withdrawals is like a nightmare.Oh dude, and you know fatty
withdrawals are a billion times worse than heroin withdrawals.
Really. Yes, way where Like you
literally feel like you're dying, you feel like you're
burning up from the inside out and it just feels like total

(01:42:59):
organ failure, like you are justincapable of doing anything
other than like seizing and screaming and shitting and
pissing yourself and like it's just, it's hell, dude.
Like consider a precipitated withdrawal times 50.
I think that's what the withdrawal.
Is oh, God, yeah. And that's all that's out there
now. Pretty much from I mean, I'm out

(01:43:20):
of the game now, so, but as far as I know, yeah, that's like,
dude, when I was out there, you couldn't get coke without Fetty
in it. You couldn't get meth without
Fetty in it. You couldn't.
Nothing. Nothing in everything.
Every it's prep. There was even people saying
telling stories about it being in weed.
Yeah, and. I've never seen it.
Personally, yeah, pressed. Everything's pressed.

(01:43:40):
Every single pill in existence that's being sold is not real
because doctors don't prescribe shit anymore.
Fetty's super cheap too. Like for the dealers, it's super
cheap for them. So like they can just whereas
like heroin pie has like a way longer process to make and cure
and all that shit, you know, like Fetty's just super, you

(01:44:02):
just get it, bang that shit out,dude, you know, and then it has
no legs. So you know your customers are
coming back. Coming right back.
Like almost like. Crack.
It's probably worse. I would, I would.
I would attest that it's worse than crack because I've been a
crackhead too and. The back and forth of the I'm
going to get a 20, just a 20, and then dude, an hour later,
one more, 21 more. 20 It's really the same for for Fetty.

(01:44:25):
I mean, God, because you get sick so fast and you're just
like. So how the fuck do you sleep at
night? You.
Got to do a hit and then you wake up when you're sick during
the night and do another hit. You better hope that you went to
sleep with enough. Holy shit dude.
Or have some to wake up to. So it's it's literally you have
to have enough for a full 24 hour period.

(01:44:49):
Yeah, you have to. Yeah, see, and that's the fuck
that thing too is like your tolerance builds so fast on that
shit too. So really you, you almost start
out being like that where you'relike, I'll just do like this
little point here every two hours or whatever and then
eventually you're doing a whole fucking gram and you can't
afford to do that every two hours, but you can't not do

(01:45:11):
well. Like what's a gram?
Run. At the time it was 200 a gram.
Fuck. Yeah, so it wasn't cheap.
No. And then to do that every two
hours, a whole and you can't do less than a gram now your
tolerance is too high. So like if you do less than a
gram, then it's not going to do anything for you and you just
wasted your time. So you have to basically you're

(01:45:32):
just stuck, dude. You're like stuck in this
revolving door. If you cannot sit there and just
take those fucking withdrawals like a man and just get through
it and then you're fucked. How, Yeah, how do you even
maintain that habit? It's so it's the most expensive,
terrible habit I can think of. Like that's.
And look at all the people out here.
I know, that's what I'm saying. All the people out in the

(01:45:52):
streets that are doing it, how the fuck are you maintaining
that? Selling their bodies, selling
every possession they own, stealing you have to robbing all
everything dude. They probably would kill you for
it if it if it if it came down to it.
God damn. Like it's that controlling of
you. Like that sickness is so bad,
dude, that like you are you like, oh, you can't even think

(01:46:15):
straight. Like when I was in rehab, you
know, you got to tell yourself when you're withdrawing, like,
you can make it. You can get out of this.
You can do. I do.
I couldn't even tell myself any of those things.
Like, I'm literally just balled up in the fetal, sweating
profusely, screaming because I don't know what else to do
really. Like, yeah, it's that bad.
Like, screaming, dude. Uncontrollable clenching and

(01:46:40):
seizing and screaming and shitting all over yourself and
pissing all over yourself and puking all over yourself.
And you're in such pain that even if you do all those things,
you're not moving. You're sitting in all of that
field until someone comes and helps you know.
And so like when I was in rehab and I was withdrawing, I might
as Bunky was all the time. This was after your relapse.

(01:47:03):
You went to rehab. Yeah, finally.
I was like, really? I was having a kid, OK, and
that's right. I started to get those feelings
like man, I need to do better. But then on top of that, you
know, I could see the hurt finally that like I could really
see the hurt that I was causing the people that love me and you
know, the disappointment and shit.
And I was like, man, I'm not going to subject my kid to those

(01:47:27):
same feelings. And like, if, if I did a lot of
wrong in my life, but there's just got me ready to tear up.
And one thing that I'll always make sure I do my damnedest is
being a good parent. Yeah, that kid never has to see
you get fucked up. Yeah, so I that's that's what
keeps me three years in sober and that's what keeps me going
and that's what makes me a better man every day is the 2nd

(01:47:51):
I found out that I was going to be a dad is kind of like when it
all changed for me. Prison didn't change, didn't
change my mindset enough. Like losing all my family and
friends or all my possessions. Like none of that shit really
resonated with me. Like I'm going to be a dad like
this, this, this human is going to rely on me now.

(01:48:14):
And if I don't have my shit together, how am I going to make
sure they got their shit together, you know?
Exactly. And so that's kind of like where
my my journey with drugs and crime and all that shit just got
squashed out. Came to an end.
And dude, I've been, I've been good ever since.
Like, I, I literally, I don't even think about that shit
anymore. I don't, you know, like when

(01:48:36):
you're even when you're like freshly sober, you kind of still
like the obsession. Yeah, you still kind of like
glorify it a little bit and you're like, man, that shit was
fun. Like that's.
Not you forget all the terrible shit.
Somehow the memories operate andonly you remember the good shit.
It's weird. Not me.
Not me anymore, man. No.

(01:48:56):
Yeah. The little one How?
How old? She'll be 3 and February 9th.
Three and fit, man. Spot on, spot on.
Right there with you and your sobriety date.
It's good. It's good dude.
That's my greatest accomplishment, man, being being

(01:49:19):
a good father and like, I'm not perfect, you know.
No, but I think that my story will help me guide her even
better, you know, and especiallybeing that's another thing
that's really like hit me home is like, I want to be that guy
that that made it out and that can help other people make it
out and not just be not even just be the guy that has a cool

(01:49:42):
story or even like the guy that helped you think about something
a little bit deeper. I just want, like, I want to
change people's lives if I can. I mean, yeah, that little girl,
dude, one day you're going to sit down and have that
conversation like that, real conversation.
Like, hey, just so you know, I'mthis, I have this disease.
It's genetic. You may have it too.

(01:50:03):
I can't tell you if you do or not, but be careful.
Yeah, that's something that worries me a lot too.
That's my biggest fear if I was to have a child would be my
genetics are so shitty, they're so shitty with mental health and
addiction that like I would be scared to bring a child into
this world that would go throughwhat I went through.

(01:50:25):
But I feel like that can be avoided with the proper
conversations and being real instead of like, sweeping it
under the rug like most people like to do, you know, bring them
in closer, you know, let them know the truth.
That's how I see it at least. What would you tell?

(01:50:50):
Ask everybody this. What would you tell the person
that's out there watching, stillgoing through it, sick and
suffering, struggling to quit? What I would tell them is I

(01:51:18):
would try to start by finding the beauty in the darkness.
And and by that, what I mean is like, you could be struggling
with addiction right now. And I'm sure that's very hard,
but there are going to be good things in your life.
And if you start by appreciatingthe things that you do have that

(01:51:40):
are going good, it'll help you work out the things that aren't
going as good. It'll give you that extra umph
to fight a little harder when you learn to appreciate the
little things that you do have. And that's always been my
problem, man. It's like I never had really had
the full appreciation of the things that I did have.

(01:52:00):
And I focused a lot on the things that I didn't have and
the best way that I knew to get the things that I didn't have
were the wrong ways to get them.So I would just, you know, I
would start with trying to find a little light in the darkness.
And then you try to find a little more and, you know, you
scratch at the surface a little bit more and more comes, you

(01:52:23):
know, more gets exposed and it just flourishes into this great
big bouquet of love and generosity.
And people would just start coming into your life that are
the perfect people for your life.
And one thing that I that I willsay definitely kept kept me in
that darkness for as long as it did is the fact that I dwelled

(01:52:46):
on it and I didn't just accept that things had happened and
tried to grow from them. Instead I just.
For. Me.
Yeah, pity me. And I wallowed in that sickness.
You know the second you start fighting is the second you'll
start climbing out of that hole.I like it.
I like it. Also, if you missed Chris's

(01:53:08):
first podcast, yeah, go back andcheck that out because it kind
of brings everything full circle.
It does. It does.
Indeed. Thanks for coming on dude, as
always, great to have you. Proud of you.
Seriously. I know you know, and I, I mean
that, yeah. And yeah, dude, it's, it's been

(01:53:31):
a pleasure to watch you grow. And I know there's a lot of
other people that staff members that were there that would
think, think the same thing. So thank you.
I I really appreciate it. Yeah, man, thanks for letting me
come on here and share. You got it.
You know that helps me too man. I know it does.
It really does. It does.
It's sharing things like this with another alcoholic is the

(01:53:56):
ultimate defense against using it really is.
And it hasn't failed me yet. So I'm going to keep doing it.
And you're, you're a good speaker, dude.
I, I don't know, look into something, man.
Get out there. You talk about wanting to share
your experiences with people. It can be done so.

(01:54:18):
Yeah, I'm witnessing it right now.
Think about it, man. Think about it.
All right, That's it. Yeah.
Thanks, man. Thank you.

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He was Locked Up Where I was a C.O - Now We Talk Prison Addiction & Surviving F3ntanyl | Ep 88

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}He was Locked Up Where I was a C.O - Now We Talk Prison Addiction & Surviving F3ntanyl | Ep 88