How I Became an IV Drug User By 17 Years Old | Ep 83 - Get a Grip Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
They gave me that. It was a you know, Roxy 30 gave
me that guy. I go, it's it's dark at this
point. I'm still at my parents house
and I'm in my room. I think they went to bed.
So it was like pitch black in myhouse.
And it like gives me anxiety talking about this particular
night, which stuff way worse happened later in life.

(00:21):
But for whatever reason, this was like the seed was planted
like another seed, but this was like the next level, the next
chapter. I break that thing in half and I
I crushed I think half of it andI snorted it and I was just
chilling out like playing video games or something.
And I got this feeling like, I want to say it was like 45

(00:46):
minutes later. I don't remember.
It was like, it was like a whileenough for me to be like, what
the hell, like. That was a RIP off, yeah.
Exactly. So I go and I break the other
half in half. Buddy.
And hit that other quarter and then I, that's when it hit me
really, really, really hard. I got super nauseous and it was

(01:09):
like my skin was on fire kind ofnot in a bad way, but like to
where it was like vibrating. I just never felt that before.
Ever. OK, we are back.

(01:33):
Aaron's back. Nice to have my partner in crime
back. You can touch me.
It's good to be back. I've been doing some solos, so
it's not quite as fun, but we have Devin Rogers with us from
Indianapolis. Yes, drove down. 4 hours 3.

(01:54):
Hours. 3 hours. 3 hours, yeah. It's not bad.
We're on now and it's a good scenery. 70 straight down.
Yeah, it's I get on 70 right by my house and then it's 70 the.
Whole way. That's it.
Are you a Colts fan? No, it doesn't really matter.
I kind of have to be, but like, not NFL.
Like Heaven's gate? Oh, no, no.
Football. Sorry.
My bad. No, it's kind of a it's kind of

(02:15):
like you're in trouble if you'renot, but I don't.
Don't they kind of suck anyway? I like.
I don't ever. No, they don't suck.
They're just like kind of mid. The only time I've followed it
is because we were having get togethers.
It was. It had.
Nothing to do with so it's like keeping keeping tab just for
social gatherings. Yes, it's good.
Yeah. Pretty much a good plan, mom.

(02:36):
I'm going to come visit you in two weeks anyway.
I'll be down there. There's for the Broncos game.
There's a lot to do in Indy, a whole lot to do.
It's a gas city, though. It's on the.
Give me a restaurant. A restaurant that's.
Just. Special to Indy it would have to
be. Here there's there's like a
steakhouse that down there my dad was telling me about.

(02:58):
I can't think of the name but it's like got a ton of history.
It's like a Saint Elmo. Saint Elmo's.
That's. Like the movies?
Saint Elmo's. I don't know what that is.
Saint Elmo's Fire the movie? Nope.
Oh boy, it's lost on me, man. It's.
A good Rat Pack movie. Anyhow, that's what it is.
Oh yeah, Saint Elmo's. It's that's popular.
It's like PF Chang's and it's like that whole.

(03:19):
Should I book a reservation likenow?
It's fantastic. I haven't been there in like 2
years maybe. When are you going to Indy?
2 weeks. Yeah.
You should book it. OK.
Yeah, for sure. Good to know.
Yeah, that's like 10 Saint Elmo's, like maybe 5 or 10
minutes from my house. Right on.
It's delicious. Are they that busy or you have
to book it? It's like there's so much
history. Yeah, it's, it's that and PF

(03:40):
Chang's, it's that little. Area popping down there.
Yeah, it's the, it's the area like on the circle and like
around that area, it's like you'll have like the local
homeless people will like hang out outside of Saint Elmo's just
like get extras as they come out.
And then they just like, it's just like normal, you know, they
just kind of live there now. Yeah.
Outside of PF Chang's. Yeah, it's rough.

(04:03):
They want the goods rough. You know what?
I. Mean you get nailed there too.
Yeah. Oh God, let's get into it.
Let's get into it. Let's start at childhood for
Devon. Childhood.
Tell us how you grew up. I grew, so I live in
Indianapolis now. I was grew up in a little tiny
town called Pittsboro, and it's like West of Indianapolis,

(04:23):
surrounded by cornfields. There's nothing out there.
I saw Cicero on your caller ID. I don't know why I have nothing
to do with Cicero. I get asked that like.
I got excited. Yeah, what you are.
You. I'm a Better Call Saul fan.
Oh, yeah, Yeah. So, yeah, I like Better Call
Saul as well. The Cicero.
I don't know why my phone says that Cicero's like way N it's
another tiny little town that I have nothing to do with.

(04:45):
Never I've been worked there, you know, that's it.
Don't work there, but Pittsburghwas like way out West, middle of
cornfield. When I went there, it was like
our elementary school was still on the property with the old one
room schoolhouse. Oh boy, it was there.
So like it was like a like a special thing we would do.
Like you go and walk over. The pretend like we were like,

(05:07):
you know, roll a little wooden wheel with a stick for the day,
you know what I mean? Any urban legends like creepy
legends about the one room like?Nothing that we didn't make up,
you know, like they say that it,you know, it was moved from
place to place like at one pointbecause there was like, I don't
know what happened. I don't know.
You could say like it was a fireor whatever and everything

(05:28):
burned down. But in reality, it was probably
just like in general construction and they just moved
it over. Yeah, right.
Yeah. You know how we'd go there and
like, pretend that we had like rode, you know, rode a horse to
school. And I couldn't like fathom that
when I was little. I, I, I guess probably cuz I had
so much anxiety being like a little kid.

(05:49):
I remember sitting in that one room schoolhouse and they're
like asking all the kids like, OK, how did you get to school
today? And they're hoping that the kids
will just, like, make up some. Like, cool, like.
Yeah, like, like historic way oftraveling.
And I was like, I rode the bus and they all looked at me like I
was ridiculous. And I, I didn't, I, I didn't

(06:10):
pick up on what was happening. You know what I'm?
Saying. But that little town, it's, it's
not so little anymore, but it still has like the same kind of
small town feel. But community type feel.
Yeah, absolutely. And when you're that young,
you're like, it's feels like it's, you know, middle or upper

(06:34):
middle class. As you grow up, you kind of see
all the skeletons behind the closets and, you know, stuff
like that. And it just, it's different than
what you think it is. When you're a little kid, you
think everybody's well off, everybody's doing OK, you know,
and but it's really kind of a not great little spot.
But all of the communities around it have like engulfed on

(06:56):
it. So now it's surrounded.
It still has cornfields all the way around it, but right on the
other side of the cornfields, you're like almost in the city
now, really. But when I was there, there's
one stoplight when I live there,and that's kind of where like
the story actually begins. I was before that, you know,
from we're talking, I was born to, I was like 6 years old.

(07:19):
I moved to Pittsburgh when I was6.
Before that, it was just me and my mom.
We lived in a little trailer again out in the cornfield
somewhere, and that was in Noblesville, IN And I kind of
was raised by my grandparents atthat point up until about 6:00.
And then I made it to Pittsboro.That's what my mom met, who
would then become my stepdad. And that's when the reason I say

(07:40):
Pittsburgh is because that's like where it starts in my mind.
I often forget about before because I was so little, but we
really have a whole lot. Like I said, it was just me and
my mom. Once she met my who would be my
stepdad, life started changing. I got, you know, started like

(08:00):
making friends. I've never had that before
because I wouldn't have any siblings or anything.
So I was just kind of me in my imagination.
And so meets my stepdad. How stepdad?
That was a we have a great relationship now, but and we had
a great relationship too. They're still together.

(08:21):
Yeah, they're still together. Oh wow, I've never met my
biological dad. He's not in the picture at all.
There was a quick like almost meeting that happened years
later, which I'll talk about later.
But otherwise he's non existent in in our lives.
But my stepdad, when I met him, we got along great because I was

(08:44):
really little and I just wanted to be like him, you know?
And he's like old school Catholic fishing, hunting.
Like you go to work and then youretire and that's how you get to
heaven is and then you die. And that's the whole purpose
here. Yeah.
It's. Just that.
And he's since moved away from that a little bit more.

(09:04):
But back then that, it was like hardcore.
But you know how it goes. Things start to change as I
become like a preteen teenager, you know?
And so at that point we didn't get along very well.
But all of those years before being a teenager, I'm in this

(09:25):
little school, little tiny town.All of the kids that went to
that school, I say all of them generally, but their parents
knew each other. They all like were babies
together, you know what I mean? And then I'm here as like a new
kid. But luckily I was, it was like
first grade. So they didn't have a lot of
time. Yeah.

(09:46):
But their parents were. So their parents all knew each
other. So I'm like trying to integrate,
I guess. My mom and I are both trying to
integrate into this like little society they had.
And looking back, I had like, severe anxiety and like severe

(10:07):
OCD tendencies. I had like all these little
things that nobody would notice back in the 90s, you know, at
that. As a kid, yeah.
What were what were some of the the weird quirks?
Like looking back, and I only realized this within the last
like 5 years, I was terrified oflike everything.

(10:28):
Like I had no idea. And this plays a huge part in my
story, but I was like terrified of the dark, of like heights of
like literally anything. That everything, yeah,
everything people like if they were older, if they were like.
So social anxiety. Oh, bad.
And I picked it up because, like, well, I picked up on it

(10:50):
because looking back, like, evenbeing in elementary school, like
if I was eating around people, like, I'd be real quiet.
And like, I'd make sure I didn'tleave any crumbs or trash or I
wouldn't. I wouldn't get up in class to
use the bathroom because I didn't want any attention on me.
I always thought I was considerate.
That's what I thought. But as I got older, I realized

(11:13):
like something had happened. Something's not normal.
Yeah, to make me like feel like,OK, I don't want any attention
on me. I don't want to get in trouble.
I don't want anything. And that's when like all of that
kind of comes back to like my stepdad and I not getting along
and things getting kind of a little more brutal as I got a

(11:34):
little older. And he had his own.
He's a he's an awesome human being and he's a good person.
He had his own things going on. And like he he was married
before he met my mom. There was a situation there and
he ended up getting divorced. My mom.
And I assume the situation was not good.

(11:54):
No, and it all he was doing was going to work and then coming
home and going to work and coming home.
He worked as a UPS driver. She was doing something else
while he was at work. Gotcha.
So he didn't have any kids with her or anything, but I think
that made him a little yeah, youknow, that'll do different on

(12:16):
edge. And then comes the, you know,
you've got this step kid now that's like got all these weird
tendencies. Yeah.
And he's like scared of everything and crying all the
time and like just wants his mombecause I was raised with her
for the first like 6 years. And so he's just starts to get
angrier and angrier and angrier and not knowing how to deal with

(12:38):
it. His whole family's like super,
you know, Catholic, religious and stuff.
And yeah, I think it like did something to me for sure.
Didn't know it back then, obviously, but you just kind of
going through the motions. When I, when I got a little

(12:59):
older, those anxieties started to like come out in like ways
that I could notice. Like I remember one day in
particular when I say a little older, I'm saying like I'm
probably like 10 maybe. I remember, like going to the
park in town in Pittsboro and I had like a couple friends with
me. And then there was like some

(13:21):
older kids. And it was like those older kids
in town, like they were the oneswho, you know, people talked
about maybe they did drugs. Maybe they did these other like
things that were scary. And like, the friends I was with
didn't have these same fears at all.
So they're like, they're like, you know, just walking right up
to him. And I'm like petrified for

(13:44):
absolutely no reason at all. So when I'm like 11:50, that's
when I'm like, OK, I'm tired of being scared of everything.
I'm tired of feeling like this. I'm tired of like my, this like,
weird tension between my stepdadand myself.
And I just got tired of all of that.

(14:06):
And so I started like, I startedwanting to become like more
aggressive and more, you know, like outgoing and like, I needed
that, you know what I mean? We all do.
Human connection. I mean something, yeah.
I think so. I like needed to prove myself
and that's when like the ego waslike born, you know what I mean?

(14:29):
And the way I explained that wasprobably all over the place.
But I'm just now realizing some of this stuff like years and
years later. So I'm still like processing
this stuff now today. So after all of that, you know,
all of the random stuff being little, I get into middle

(14:53):
school. Middle school in Pittsboro was a
combination of three towns put together because all the towns
were too small to have their ownlike middle school, high school.
So it's like 3 towns put together?
That's interesting. Yeah.
And so that births a whole new thing because I'm from
Pittsburgh. It's like sort of middle class,

(15:14):
sort of not. But then it's like we mix with
these other two towns that are even further out in the woods
and they're smaller than Pittsburgh is.
So then I meet all of these kidsand I'm they're like the
derelicts, the outcasts, you know, the way that they look and
dress and talk and stuff. And I was like, these are my

(15:35):
people. Sure, I'm sure.
What I mean, like fearless, likeskateboarding, like doing all
the things that I just like wanted to be.
Not not because I wanted that. Was there poverty?
In those other two towns, Oh yes.
Yeah. I figured yeah, yes, and.
Their parents seemed so much cooler because they were also
like impoverished and stuff. Now when you're young you don't

(15:57):
realize that's what it is. You just think they're cool.
Yeah, they're cool. They'll let you do whatever.
And you know, so meeting those kids, like I, I saw him like
playing guitar and stuff and like for like show and tell
things like that early middle school.
And I was like, that's, that's what I want to do.
I saw one kid who become like mybest friend.

(16:19):
He brought his guitar in like 6th grade and he was like
playing something. And he's got like people around
him. It's like all these other kids
watching him and I'm like. If I can do that.
I need that. Then.
Feel good? Yeah, I won't be.
Like the weird kid over here. So.
That was my goal. So I did.
I like begged my parents to get me a guitar and all this, and

(16:43):
eventually I did. And that's kind of the path I
went down in the meantime, like I was learned to skateboard and
I that's where all my time went was.
Riding into. Town bringing my skateboard,
it's not like. Unhealthy or anything?
No, it was normal. We weren't like out there like
robbing people or doing you knowthe stuff that the early 2000

(17:04):
skater kids like you know, you think they were doing.
But we weren't like doing anything crazy.
We're just being kids. But, you know, at the time also,
it's small town, so you got like3 cops and they see kids with
skateboards. They all know you.
Oh, yeah. And they, we, we never, we
weren't doing drugs or anything at that point, but they were

(17:24):
still like all over us all the time.
And I almost think that that, you know, slightly kind of
pushes something in the direction that it was, that they
thought it was going already, but it wasn't, you know?
Yeah. And they put you in handcuffs to
scare you because you're like skateboarding on a sidewalk that
they don't want you to skateboard on.
God or they heard fireworks somewhere and they're emptying

(17:46):
our pockets because they think we are the ones lighting off
fireworks. They're.
That bored? Oh yeah.
There was nothing to do there, nothing, nothing at all.
And actually several, and I knowlike people say this stuff all
the time, but several of those police officers back then,
they're no longer there. Like one of them up and left

(18:06):
with his family like gone because there was a situation
like domestic between the officer and his wife and and
like missing like evidence like laptops and stuff.
The reason I know this is not hearsay because his son was like
my best best friend in elementary school and the dad.

(18:27):
'S like the dad cops messing with the you and him the his own
son. No, he wasn't.
It wasn't him. He wasn't part.
Of the skateboard brigade? No, not at.
All he was cool to us, like he he let us like ride in the car
and he turned the lights on justto like scare people and like,
but that also speaks to you knowwhat I mean?
He'd say, watch this. I'm going to freak this guy, you

(18:47):
know, And he turned his lights on and then follow him for a
little while and kind of fun. And turn him.
Off. Yeah.
We were kids, though. We just thought, you know, it's
funny. He's cool, yeah.
He's fun, Yeah. But he like, I went to my
grandparents one weekend, my great grandparents just to like
spend the weekend over there. And I came back and my friend

(19:07):
and his family was gone and his house was empty.
Wow. That quick?
Yeah, over a weekend. Yeah, I say that because it's
like, sounds like it was. I heard this happened, but like
it for sure happened and I neversaw him again, ever.
Never heard from because we didn't have social media or
anything at that point. So it was just boom, gone.
And then there was another officer who got in trouble for

(19:29):
like, having relations with likegirls in town, like girls in
school and stuff. So they were bored.
For none of them. Are there anymore now?
It's like they have their own little like SWAT team and DEA
and stuff, which is crazy because it's like a three block
town. But I also understand too
because I watched that happen. I watched that town get the

(19:52):
development. Of that, yeah.
Being older, I get it. People are dying left and right.
I mean, you know, what are they supposed to do?
You know at some point that they're doing what they know how
to do. But.
You know, I'm getting into skateboarding, getting it, you
know, talked to by police every day and I getting into music and

(20:16):
that's kind of like where thingschange for me because.
I. Got that guitar and that's all I
wanted to do was skateboard and play guitar.
So when I'm at school I'm thinking about guitar and when
I'm not at school I'm playing the guitar.
And I was my, I was like, I haveto get good enough at this where

(20:39):
I can play with other people. That was like my whole thing.
So I'm going to practice, practice, practice.
And then all of a sudden here weare.
Myspace is a thing now and I didn't know what it was or
anything, so I made a Myspace and I start looking like for
kids in those other couple townsthat I could play music with.

(21:00):
And. I met a couple kids in in a town
like close to ours. In.
Brownsburg who played guitar andthey were from a little bit of a
more well off family, so like their parents at bottom like
some they had a really nice space, nice equipment, things
like that. And I was like, hey mom, I found
these people online and I'm going to go play music with

(21:23):
them, but I need you to take me over there.
And she's like, OK and just tookme over there and and they
became like my now best friends.I spent all my time over there
at this time when I started playing music, I was probably
like 12, but I met I met those kids when I was about 13.

(21:47):
And that's when like drugs sort of start becoming a thing, but
not for me. So like that's when I noticed
that it was that it existed because like there was a kid
that was in my town who like gotarrested a school for having a
Roach in his in his shoe, you know, for a Roach you got.

(22:08):
Arrested. Oh yeah.
Damn. Yeah.
They ain't messing around out there.
Yeah. No, they didn't.
Play at all, but we were like, Imean, he was in 8th grade
probably. So.
And then there was another kid like at the end of the year who
got, you know, was all peeled out.
And I didn't know what that stuff really was, but.

(22:30):
I watched. Them drag him out and his, like,
pants are around his ankles because he was just drooling all
over himself, you know? And so that's when I'm like, OK,
like some people here smoke weedand I'm like, smoke drugs.
Like I didn't know what any of this was and when I found out
like that it existed, I was likesuper against it and all of my
friends were too. You know that goes for.

(22:53):
My freshman year I was the same way.
I was terrified of drugs, up drugs and alcohol.
Yeah, dude. That's how it was for me too,
like. And I.
Didn't want to be associated with it.
And my friends I played music with didn't want to be
associated with it. And we were, we were getting
into some like we played like really heavy music at that time,

(23:14):
like really aggressive, like very heavy music.
And their parents were really supportive of it.
My parents are really supportiveof it.
So we ended up traveling and like their parents would book us
with places in places like everyevery week.
What kind of places? We talking like kids, birthday
parties or no? We were going to like Atlanta

(23:36):
and going to North Carolina and Georgia, Savannah, GA and we
would go where else we go. We went to Chicago a couple
times and then in Indianapolis as well.
You guys are pretty good. We were going.
All over the place, I mean. What kind of venue are we
talking? Like how do you A lot of them
were. Bars.

(23:56):
But back then if you played, youwere allowed in.
You just couldn't be at the bar.OK.
And then a lot of them did also didn't care.
But then some of them were like Warped Tour, I don't know if
you're familiar with. That stuff.
Long time ago, it was Limp Bizkit.
But that same kind of thing, yeah, festivals, stuff like

(24:18):
that. But you know, none of us could
drive or anything. Two of them were brothers, the
guitar player and the drummer. The drummer was a little bit
older, so I was 13, he was 16. He did get a license at some
point and then we were able to go off and do our own thing,
but. That.
Whole time frame it was just playing music and I was.

(24:42):
I started losing all interest inschool at that point, not
because of drugs or anything, because I just felt like I
couldn't focus, I couldn't think.
All I did was think about playing music when I was at
school at any point. Was it like, this is what I'm
going to do for the rest of my life?
Yeah. Oh yeah.
Yeah, I thought that for sure. I was like, I had convinced

(25:04):
myself that that was the path I was going to be on, so why not
just do it now? Like, get a jump on it.
Yeah, Just go at it early. And so that whole time period
was a lot of fun. But then, you know, some of the
people I'm playing music with start experimenting with things

(25:27):
and, you know, and we're talkinglike smoking weed and like, you
know, nothing. But these are kids you.
Trust. Yes.
And you've known them since? Yeah, Yeah, it was really one.
Of them and then we were all like well we got to like get rid
of that guy, you know but they're friends and then then
now there's two of them doing itnow there's three of them doing
it now I'm the only one not and eventually I'm like.

(25:50):
You know. Yeah, I'll try it.
But I always hated that feeling.Like I hated the feeling of them
having it in the car. I hated the feeling of I was
just so paranoid already as a person.
So it's like I'm thinking like they're all having fun.
I can't have fun because I'm allI'm thinking about is I'm going
to be in trouble. I'm going to be in trouble, my
dad's going to kill me, you know, Like that's all, that's

(26:11):
all I could think about. But eventually I tried it.
How? They How'd that go?
Yeah. What was the experience?
Like I went. To a park.
That same park. Where I was talking about, we
went to the park and those kids were there earlier.
I went to that park. There's a gas station, there's a
Circle K. We went inside the gas station.

(26:33):
We bought some lifesavers and went and sat in the picnic bank
picnic tables like right next tothe gas station and.
Rolled it up in. This freaking Lifesavers
wrapper, oh God. Yeah.
Man and. Then I smoked it and I threw up
everywhere and I felt nothing atall.

(26:53):
But I was just coughing and dying and throwing up and like,
you know, I looking back, you know, I was like, oh, that was
cool. But I didn't, there was nothing.
Yeah, that doesn't sound like fun.
No, it wasn't. At all, but it was just like me
and one one of the other kids and like I said, we had no
license yet did he was. He cool was he?
Did he get high and shit and like he enjoyed it.

(27:13):
He had done it before. OK, So what the hell is up?
With the lifesaver, is it the white?
Because I think it has like a white paper in the middle of it
it. Was the IT was that inside
rapper? Because this is the thing.
Is like, who smokes the rapper? And I was like, oh, then you
open it. It's got the white part.
Yeah, read about that. Yeah, no, it I don't think I did
anything at all, but. You know that was.

(27:33):
Just the, the initial experienceand then, you know, we, I, I
moved on to like the Apple core and the Sprite can and the, you
know, and then eventually I, I don't even remember this, but I
know I started liking it at somepoint, right?
I don't remember when that was. I don't remember the first time

(27:54):
I felt like, actually felt it. I just know that I didn't want
to lose the people I was playingmusic with.
That was like my whole future you felt like.
You had to do it to fit in and stay with the crowd.
I did. Yeah, and I feel like people
sometimes might be afraid to saythat or say, you know, speak
like that, but it really is. It really was like that.

(28:18):
It was. I was nervous as hell.
Everything I want, everything. I mean, wanted to walk away,
but, you know, I didn't. Am I I should have prefaced this
by saying like my mom was alwaysreally cool and she encouraged
me to like talk to her about stuff.
So like even back then when I like tried weed and stuff, like

(28:38):
I told her that that happened and she was always like.
Pretty like. Supportive in that stuff.
I think she just didn't want me to like back then.
That's that's rare, I feel, I feel like.
That too. Yeah.
My dad, my stepdad, different story.
He didn't know, and he didn't need to know.

(29:00):
Do you think you're weird already 'cause like now you
skateboard and you play guitar. Oh dude.
Yeah, like, yeah. And by this.
Time I had like spiked hair and it was like colored.
I had gauges in my ears and my lips.
Full on, yeah, yeah. I was like.
I I wanted to have that image because I was so scared all the

(29:21):
time. So I wanted to be seen as like,
I don't mess. With him, yeah, like.
Yeah, there was a sense of that,like where I just wanted to like
I wanted to have tattoos, like when I was way early, you know,
like way early on, I wanted, I wanted people to have that shock
and awe, like, like I did when Iwas around other people, you

(29:41):
know? Yeah.
I wish I could explain that better because I think that is
like the driving force in the next 10 years of my life.
The core, yes. The.
OCD, the the extreme anxiety andjust wanting people to to be
like, oh, he's not afraid of anything.

(30:03):
Well, it. Screams.
Self medication is what it screams, yeah.
Like, yes, at some point we're going to medicate, whether it's
a doctor or self medication, yeah.
And there was there was some of that where like my mom had taken
me to see this person and this person because at that time, I

(30:24):
mean, we grew up like I grew up in like the Viva La Bam era.
Like that's what was popping theCKY.
All that stuff was going on at the time.
So the the parents and it wasn'ton the Internet.
It wasn't everybody's faces yet.So they're like, Oh my gosh,
it's infiltrating our small town.
Like, and, you know, these kids are diabolical.

(30:46):
They're devilish. They're, you know, all these
things. And we've just fed into it.
You know, we were like, yeah, you know, like writing 666 on
stuff, like, just stupid anarchy.
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely ridiculous.
But it really was like that because you're a kid and you
just want to be like, F you, youknow, to everybody and

(31:07):
everything. And I was afraid to do that
forever. And I think just having that
built up, like once I started smoking and started like
dressing different and then I'm out playing music.
So I got that the stage fright things gone.
Like now I'm feeling comfortableto kind of be more outward and
open. And that's when I was like, OK,

(31:30):
getting into like high school. Well, I should say at the end of
middle school, like 8th grade era, like, you know, now I want
to, I want people to be afraid of me, like.
Not. Just for how I look, but.
Because of how I. Act sounds so stupid when I say
it out loud, but you know, I start smoking, I start dabbling

(31:56):
and then I start drinking a little bit and that opens up a
whole different world because, you know, as you know, like
smoking and drinking or like waydifferent.
And so I'm thinking, well, I'm smoking and I got over that and
now I like that like, OK, if I drink, it's going to be the same

(32:17):
kind of thing. I do remember the first time I
got really drunk. I I don't remember that for the
weed, but I do remember for the alcohol.
One of my friends who didn't play music, he was like a
childhood friend from like elementary school and stuff.
His we would always have like these little get togethers in
his basement, but his older brother and his friends would

(32:39):
have parties in their in the basement, but we'd be upstairs
when they were doing that. And when we got into like 8th
grade, they were like, they kindof just like left the door open
one time, you know, And like, kind of.
Allowed us. To enter the party per SE and I
was super, super sunburnt so I took like a whole bunch of like

(33:01):
ibuprofen, not thinking anythingof it and, and I, you know,
started drinking and I, I don't know what I drank or how much I
drank, but I remember feeling very specifically once I got the
really warm feeling and like especially with the ibuprofen, I
couldn't feel my face at all. And so I was like, I like this.

(33:24):
This I really like a lot. And I was like, I.
Was like my friend. Cody, I was like hit.
And I was like, dude, you need to hit me.
Like I need to know, like if I can feel it if you hit me and
like he so he's like decks me inthe face and I'm like laughing
and you know, all the normal drunk stuff.
But that's the moment I think. It wasn't the smoking.

(33:44):
It wasn't any of that. It was the.
Booze. Oh yeah.
And which is crazy cuz I never gotten, I know I don't have a
DUII don't have anything like that.
But that feeling, the warm blanket, the that's what it was
that got me. So after that my mom kind of
drank a lot, but she was like fully functioning.

(34:05):
So I say drank a lot, but she like, you know, had her liquor
cabinet and stuff like that likerelatively normal, but was she
like an after? Work drinker, Yeah, yeah, she'd
go to. The bar for a second after work
and then she'd come up OK. And.
So I started coming home from school and and we're still in
like 8th grade. I'd come home.

(34:25):
And like make my own little mixed drinks from mom's.
Cabinet, Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, at some point, she
definitely had no, because it was all the time and she wasn't
drinking at all. And you're doing this?
Like daily. Oh yeah.
Damn. Yeah, for sure.
And but I didn't like drink and go to school.
I didn't like, nothing like that.

(34:46):
It was just when I got home. And I say just when I got home,
like I'm 40 years old having a beer after work.
No, but I would always get like a, a glass and like ice and
like, it was like a mixed drink.Like I was an old man and I'd
always have like 1, you know, and just sip on it.
And, but like I said, my dad worked at UPS.

(35:10):
So he was gone early in the morning.
He, he, he left by like 5:30 in the morning.
He got home at like 9 at night. God.
Yeah. It's a long.
Day Yeah, he was a. Driver and he did that for like
40 something years. He he just retired last year.
My mom worked like did logisticsfor the steel mill in town and
she she'd hit the bar with like her Co workers after work and

(35:35):
then she'd come home at like. 8.Because she'd want to like get
something prepared dinner wise and stuff like that.
So yeah, nice little. Gap.
Oh yes. And I ended up definitely taking
advantage of that. So I'd come home, you know, get
my mixed drink thing going on. And over time it was like I just

(35:57):
got used to being by myself. So I start having other people
over for and I was like, OK, we have to cut it off at this time.
And so, you know, before you know it, we had like I have fans
up in the windows, like we'd be just chief in and I was able to
get it all. Squared away.
Cleaned up by the time they bothgot home and the smell.
Is gone out of the house. I thought it was.

(36:18):
I don't know, you know, hopeful,hopefully.
Yeah. Yeah, I don't know.
Ballsy. Yeah.
Yeah. It was a different time for
sure. But that's when I started when
that happened, you know, we're still playing music and stuff.
But, you know, then I get into high school and I I really,

(36:42):
really, really stopped caring about school at that point.
And I really only wanted to go to school to see like my friends
and that was it. All I cared about was friends,
girls, drama like that nonsense.And when I, when I got into high

(37:05):
school, my very first teacher freshman year got into a big
argument with them. And I like made the decision in
my mind to like give up. Essentially.
I was like, I just want to play music and drink alcohol.
It's like it, you know, sounds nice.
Yeah. Yeah, it did at the time.

(37:25):
But I also had already, like, I thought that I was going to be
famous already. So there's no need for all of
this. And mind you, I'm still at a
little tiny school. So there's like a lot of.
Like country boys and like a lotof a lot of those little cliques
and a lot of like the more preppy kids that I ended up

(37:50):
becoming friends with. But still, like at the time, I
just hated him. Like for no reason at all.
Like I just didn't like their lifestyle.
I didn't like their confidence. I didn't like anything.
So I'm like, fight me. You know, that's the person I
became. I was just like, just wanted to
be aggressive and egotistical and you wanted to be.

(38:11):
Seen awful? Yeah, it's kind of what?
It sounds like yeah. And you know, my friends and I
like back then when everyone's kind of a freshman, you the way
you kind of like earned respect was, you know, you like threw on
boxing gloves and met up with whoever and just like went at

(38:33):
it. That was like what all the the
guys, the boys did when we got into high school and my friend,
like my friend Jordan, my friend, my other friend, we
would get hammered and just likejust to like for me, it was like
I just a show of force, like andagain, all these people became
my friends later, but I was justlike, you know, we'd call him

(38:57):
and say, Hey, you want to you know, let's meet up at the park
and like we're going to box. Like all my friends are going to
box all your friends. And like, but I was and I get
there and I just would like we don't need to use gloves.
Like, you know, it was too. It sounds so stupid when I say
it now, but that just who I needed to be, I guess aggressive
and I wanted people to see that I was aggressive and ultimately

(39:20):
led to me just like one day I just left school and didn't go
back and. Left all.
Together. Yeah.
Damn. Yeah.
What did your mom say? She couldn't.
Stop it. I don't really.
I think she seems supportive at the time.
But looking back. I think she just didn't know
what to do because she didn't want to like, push me away.

(39:41):
But at the same time, I was likeuncontrollable at this point.
I know I skipped a lot of stuff in there, but that aggression
was kind of what I was trying toget to.
I just wanted to fight people, you know?
And do you ever take? Any of that.
I don't step dad at any point. Blowouts.
Yeah, when I. Got big enough?

(40:02):
Which I was. 200 and something. I was like 205 lbs when I was a
freshman in high school. Damn.
Bam, buddy and I was. Tall for like that age and so
when I got. To that.
Age, yeah, we started getting physical and because, you know,
he'd yell at me and stuff and then I'd be like, I'm not.
Oh yeah. Yeah, I'm not doing this.
Anymore, like even talking aboutit makes me sick to my stomach a

(40:25):
little bit, you know? Like because it's not me.
It never was supposed to be me, and so it's just like.
I can't. Imagine myself having that big
of an ego, but I also have to, you know, be give myself a
little grace because I was a kidand I just wanted to play music

(40:48):
with my friends. I wasn't trying to.
I didn't know what I was dealingwith at the time.
And I remember like having nightmares of like my evil self,
you know, I don't know if that makes sense, but I'd like have
full on nightmares of like future me at the time.
Like I would see myself in my dreams of like this.

(41:10):
Like eyes are all sunken in and like looks like a skeleton of a
person. Sounds weird and ridiculous, but
interesting. I.
Vividly remember it and I feel like at some point I had let
like. This.
Darkness inside of me. That's like the easiest way I

(41:31):
can explain it. You know, I'm not trying to get
like weird about it, but something definitely changed my
outlook on everything. So I, you know, I left school
and. I.
There was a lot that led up to that, but there's a lot that
happened after that I want to get into, so I'm trying to.

(41:51):
Yeah. What's?
The plan now like OK, I'm not going to school anymore.
That's a great. Question.
I'm going to go get a job at a restaurant and I'm going to play
music. I'm just going to travel and
play music. But at that time, like I, you
know, I, I leave school and I get a job at Wendy's.

(42:14):
And that was awful because now I'm with people who are like 30
and 40 and they're working at Wendy's.
And. So that's like I started dealing
weed. I started all from that freaking
Wendy's. Like that's where that started.

(42:35):
Where'd you get the idea? To deal weed, just a little
extra money or you wanted to smoke for free or yeah.
Yeah, I. Don't know to be honest.
I think I wanted both, both wanted all of it.
And then I, you know, through that and I ended up somehow I

(42:59):
connected with somebody and I ended up with like a bunch of X
pills. And I'd never even.
Done anything like that at that point and I'm just selling this
stuff to all the people that I went to school with at the time.
But my parents were gone at workand I would work like sometimes.
And so my house on the corner oflike a little, it's like country

(43:24):
roads and it's right on the corner of a four way.
And my bedroom has a window on one side of the corner and a big
window on the other side of the corner.
And people would drive up to thefour way stop and like pull off
and just walk up to my window and then bam.
And then they're gone. Almost like a drive.
Through. Yeah, it really.
Was and it got to the point of where like police would sit in

(43:45):
my neighbor's driveway and it got really bad at at like later
on. Did you ever?
Try the ecstasy. Yes, I.
Did eventually and then I got like really into that.
How? How was that experience for you?
The first time I tried it, it was like just a little bit and

(44:07):
it felt like I was outside of myself and I didn't take that
much. I think I took like half a pill.
I don't remember what they were,it's been so long ago, but I I
had jars of them. Like damn, like hundreds of
these jeans you're able to sell.Them like that in this little
small town, dude. Yeah.
Wow. Absolutely.
That and weed. And at Wendy's, that's where I

(44:31):
like the weed game change. Because I met somebody who was
like importing from another state and it was a whole
different world than what I had ever seen before and a whole
different quality of substance than I've ever seen before.
And that wasn't really super widely available in my town at
that time. So because of the way I was

(44:51):
living before that, even though I was so young, I only wanted to
hang out with people. That's all the only reason I
went to school. That's the only reason I really,
I made all my decisions based onjust like partying with people
or hanging out with people. So I had all these connections
from all these different groups of people and that was like how
I could be known and how I couldbe liked and how I could.

(45:13):
It's so cliche, I. Remember feeling the exact same
way you got all these. Friends and people that need you
now that you're holding what they want.
Yeah. Phones ringing all.
The time, Yeah. Oh.
God, I loved it and I. Loved it.
You know, I and I should say when I started doing that.

(45:35):
The friends I. Was playing music with it kind
of fizzled out, you know, because they started doing the
same kind of thing but. A little.
Different. They were like into cocaine and
stuff at that point and then we ended up getting back together
and it was a whole different thing.
We went from playing like the Super heavy aggressive music to
now it's like straight up reggaeand like funk music.

(45:57):
We're going to like festival, like those types of festivals.
And we did that for. Like a year.
And. Then that blew up as well
because there's drugs involved and there's like where I'm, I'm
coming to practice and I've got scales and all this stuff.
Like I was the kid that was likewith those same people, like not
even wanting to be in the same vicinity as now you're.

(46:18):
The and now you're the. Yeah, and I'm like.
Showing up and like, you know, just but that didn't last very
long. It was we did it we did one
album recorded released it and did those who'd you release it
to these your friends public? Yeah, we, well we you would use
like a like distro kid type websites to to get it out there.

(46:43):
Yeah, they would put it on platforms, but back then it was
like a ReverbNation SoundCloud. It was.
Right at the beginning of the SoundCloud time, I think we, but
it was mostly like ReverbNation and like what are some of the
other ones? But it's all like that.
It's like SoundCloud, same kind of concept and you'd be like
charted and ranked and all thesedifferent sites and then they

(47:05):
would like accumulate it from all the sites to figure out who
was ranked and what categories and what genres of music.
But we were so into like the drug.
Scene at that point that we forgot about that didn't.
Matter, yeah, and then? There was like stuff with like
girls and like girlfriends and there's just a lot of stuff that
kind of just broke everybody apart.

(47:27):
But their family was like a lot more well off.
So like they were going to go tocollege and stuff regardless of
if they did drugs and things. Like, I didn't realize at the
time, like how much of A deficitsome kids are at when they're
doing the same things as other kids, but those other kids
don't. It doesn't.
They don't take it with them. They just move right on with
life like how they were supposedto.

(47:48):
They keep going to school even though they talk about how they
hate it. And I'm like, I also hate it.
So I'm going to leave, you know,And like the extreme version,
like. You know what?
All the kids. Say I wish I would have stayed
doing that leaving leaving public school and.
Like working at. Wendy's and stuff.
That was, it's not the American Dream.

(48:11):
No, I was 17 when this happened.So I wasn't driving very much or
anything. And then so I was selling, you
know, ecstasy. I was selling weed and.
I got my hands. On mushrooms and I was selling
mushrooms. I'd only done them a couple
times. I had a couple of friends who

(48:32):
are really into them, but I was so nervous about stuff like
that. Like, you know, I started taking
ecstasy like but again, I was like almost micro dosing at the
time, right? I don't think that.
I don't know if that term was around then, but that's how I
approached things because I was still just a well.
Psychedelics to or a different ball game entirely, especially

(48:53):
if your. Psyche is not like the best
already. Yeah, a good spot to be in to
take hallucinogens, absolutely. You don't.
Ever. Get fucked with by the cops or
they're never like they did. But I got really lucky a lot of
times up until like later. But like I said, they would sit

(49:15):
like across the street from my house.
They would sit at the end of my Rd.
They would patrol the block. So like when you left, we were
right on the outskirts of Pittsboro.
So I'm talking like 2 to three blocks and you're in town.
To get in town, you have to go from like my like countryside.

(49:37):
You have to go over this like little tiny hill.
I say it's a little tiny hill, but it's like it's tall enough
where you can't see the you can't see over it, so you can't
see town. You wouldn't know it's coming if
you if you weren't from there. You just be driving in the
country and all of a sudden you go over this little hill and
there's town. They would sit right there and I
have no way to get to my house outside of going through there.

(50:01):
I'd drive by, they'd flash theirlights on at me and turn it back
off. Or like, you know, they'd pull
us over, but they wouldn't search anything.
And just weird. Kind of weird.
That is weird. But also, I was picking up weed
across the street from the DEA, who became the DEA agent's
house, so his dog was there. Perfect.

(50:24):
But I picked it up from. Like a middle class, like
couple, you know, I wasn't like going to the hood.
I hadn't experienced that yet. I had no idea.
What that life was about. Yet I'm just like, you know,
small town, small town. Like I thought I was big balling
at the time, but I mean in that.Town you might have been.
I felt like it. Shit.

(50:46):
Jars of ecstasy in a town like that, what are you doing with
your money like? I'm assuming if you have, you
know, dude partied. I bought.
Stuff like get like music gear and like then I would we'd go to
the bar and like I'd drop a few $100, you know, like nothing
good came out of it and you're living with.

(51:07):
Mom so right, Yeah, yeah. She's never like, hey.
Oh yeah, you're different at some point.
She's like, why do we go throughso many sandwich Baggies?
She asked me that one time. You love sandwich.
Like I noticed. You never asked me for money,
but you work at Wendy's and the we're always out of sandwich
bags. Why the fuck?
Didn't you buy your own sandwichbags?

(51:28):
Dude, I don't know. I mean what?
The fuck? He's a kid.
They're like, it's like a dollar.
It's like $2.00. I've never.
Actually thought about that at all.
I just waited for more to show up.
Like I don't have to. They just.
Show up. Yeah, they're there when I need
them. Yeah, now.
Eventually I, you know, got my, I would go to the head shop like
later on and I'd buy like the little little.

(51:51):
Packages and. Stuff.
But before that I didn't know head shops existed.
I just knew people showed up andthey had bowls and stuff.
I didn't know where they even came.
Like we didn't. Have that kind of thing around
our town. It was all in the city.
So we'd, you know, eventually there's a place called High on
the Hill that we'd go to downtown.
We played a couple of concerts there when I was like with the

(52:13):
reggae type group and like in their basement.
That was those were cool. Those were actually really fun.
But once I that's where I buy scales and I just buy everything
right there. What's your?
Band's name? Is it like something like Hard
Rock, Like pussy lightning? No, that one.
Was called cruise control. Oh, OK.

(52:33):
And like I said, we were. That was I.
Was 16 because I could drive, but then I left school so I was
17 and is so I, I got my hands on the mushrooms and I find
somebody who wants to buy a quarter of mushrooms or
whatever. I'm like often times, like if my

(52:54):
parents were home, I would just walk down the street and they
would pick me up. Whoever's behind will pick me
up, drive around the block and drop me back off.
I just tell him I go outside, smoke a cigarette or something.
So I tell my parents, and he picks me up, like, have his bag
of mushrooms. And he was like, hey, would you

(53:16):
want to trade for this? I'm like, trade what?
Like I want your money, really, you know?
And then he pulls out this little tiny blue pill and yeah,
yeah, yeah. You know where this is going.
And I'm like, what the heck is that?
Like I had taken some, like my mom had like a old bottle of

(53:40):
like hydrocodone that I kind of taken, you know, like stuff like
that. I had done not enough for me to
ever feel like that. That feeling, yeah.
And so he, he, I'm like sure, you know, and I think also these
these guys were a little older and they were selling other
things on a much higher level than I was selling them.

(54:03):
But they wanted to trip out. They wanted to take shrimp.
So they came to me for that. So I kind of wanted, I think it
was the same concept. Like I wanted them to think I'm
the cool. Sure, Yeah.
You know, doing them a favor type deal.
Yeah, I'll take that. Isn't that a bad deal?
Though it's it was a blue third.Yeah, A.
Quarter. Ounce of mushrooms and this was.
Before the fentanyl, this was before all of that.
So yeah, it was a it was a bad deal, yeah.

(54:27):
Sounds terrible. But I also.
Didn't want to take the mushrooms either and I just had
a bunch leftover so I'm like cool whatever.
And he looked. At me and when he put it in my
that little tiny thing in my palm, he looked at me.
He said do not take the whole thing.
He knew I was he's he told. Well, actually he told me snort
it, but don't snort the whole thing, OK.

(54:48):
I was like, it's accurate. That it's it is accurate.
It is. I was like but I was so
confused. I said, what's your?
Ego telling you that this freaking little tiny little
thing, I can't do it all part ofme was.
Like that. But I also hadn't experienced
that in myself yet, so I wasn't confident.
Like I was still scared of stuff.
I just didn't want people to know it.

(55:09):
So yeah, I'd smoke weed, but that's because I had enough
experience with it at that point.
I didn't really care about I'm drinking.
Everybody else drinks, you know,my mom and brother, everybody
drinks, you know, So that stuff didn't worry me so much.
But when I tried, like, ecstasy,I'd take like a little piece.
And when I tried, you know, whenI tried cocaine another time, it
was like a little tiny little bit just because there was still

(55:32):
something inside of me that saidlike, this is like, not good.
So you don't know how you're going to feel and you don't like
that. You don't like being out of
control. You need to be in control.
Just the OCD, the obsessive thoughts.
It's interesting. Yeah.
Yeah, it is interesting. So I'm like micro dosing
everything, you know, until I but they gave me that it was,

(55:52):
you know, the Roxy 30 give me that guy.
I go it's it's dark at this point.
I'm still at my parents house and I'm in my room and I think
they went to bed. So it was like pitch black in my
house and did it like gives me anxiety talking about this

(56:12):
particular night, which stuff way worse happened later in
life. But for whatever reason, this
was like the seed was planted like another seed, but this was
like the next level. The next chapter.
I break that thing in half and II crushed I think half of it and
I snorted it and I was just chilling out like playing video

(56:36):
games or something. And I got this feeling like.
I want to say it was. Like 45 minutes later, I don't
remember, it was like, it was like a while enough for me to be
like, what the hell like. The RIP off?
Yeah, exactly. So I go and I break the other
half in half buddy. And.
Hit that other quarter. And then?

(56:58):
I that's when it hit me really, really, really hard.
I got super nauseous and it was like my skin was on fire kind of
not in a bad way, but like to where it was like vibrating.
I just never felt that before ever with anything else I had
done. But I got super nauseous.

(57:20):
I took like almost all my clothes off because I'm hot as
hell and I'm just like in the bathroom like profusely throwing
up and then I wake up and it's like 3 in the morning and I'm
still in the bathroom. I had passed out on the floor.
And I don't. Know if like I don't know what
happened, but I just nodded. Out.

(57:40):
Yeah, I think I did. That was my first nod, you know.
There are many. More to come after that, but and
I like woke up dude and then threw up some more every time I
drink water or anything and theneventually like I'm laying in in
bed and I'm like sweating and eventually I like just I guess

(58:01):
went to sleep. The next morning.
When I woke up I was like. Like I need.
I want to do that again, like, which is crazy.
Yeah. It was an awful experience.
Was it? Like I.
Want to do it right or I want todo it no.
I was like. I just need to do it now.
Oh, OK. Like I want that.
Like, yeah, it was like immediate.
I was like, that was awesome. And looking back, it was gross

(58:25):
and it was awful. Yeah, you explain.
That to a normal person? Yeah, that.
Sounds like the worst. Time ever exactly but to us like
I got to do that again yeah it. Was.
I didn't even know what it was called at that time.
I didn't know what he gave me still.
So I'm like, what is this littleblue pill that I have to go seek
out and find now, not realizing that there, you know, there's so

(58:47):
many other things. I didn't know it was an opiate.
I didn't know any of this stuff.So then I go back to like
regularly scheduled programming.I'm like going to work at
Wendy's. I'm getting selling stuff.
I did get into kickboxing at this time, which is like a weird
little, I guess it's not. I guess it actually plays into

(59:11):
this. I get into kickboxing.
I don't remember why. I think it's because I was
again, I would I would be at at Wendy's, right.
And if I I would smoke weed before I went and I'd smoke weed
after I left. But if I didn't smoke weed or if
it'd been too long into my shift, I'd start getting pissed
off at people like the customers, the Co workers.
I'm like punching stuff and slamming stuff.

(59:32):
And I'm a whole grown child pretty much just getting just
infuriated by every little thing.
And not to mention I have like piercings and stuff still.
So I'm in this little town and Ihad like, people would come in
and be like, I'm not letting youtake my order.
Like, straight up like. That sucks.
Like when? I was in when I was a when I was

(59:54):
a young boy, when I went to work, I had to be look
respectful. You have bishops in your mouth,
you know, like it was like that.So I'm just mad.
I'm like, meet me in the parkinglot.
Like, I'm ready to freak out, you know, I was just stupid.
But. I get into kickboxing and so I'm
like. Still selling?

(01:00:14):
Still doing my thing, but I'm also going to kickboxing like
two or three times a week. And that's where I met another
guy who was like, he was really into like amateur MMA.
That was his whole thing. And but every time I'd go to the
gym with him, we'd roll and do jiu jitsu and the whole thing.

(01:00:36):
But then he had me start coming to his house to do like
additional stuff. And I'd meet other people that
went to his house. Every time I went to his house,
he's like, here, take this before we start.
And it was this little white thing and I don't know what it
was at first. It turns out they were methadone
pills. And.

(01:00:56):
They were like, this was so longago.
They were like, it almost looks like a little Xanax bar, Yeah.
I know they're they're the 10s method.
I'd say probably I. Don't know, seems like an odd.
Choice to take before you still start fighting, right?
It was, yeah. But I didn't know what it was.
Yeah. I was still.
About I was still 17, I had to still been 17.

(01:01:17):
And once again, I'm like, oh, there's that.
I kind of. Remember this?
That's that. Feeling like what was.
What is that, You know, And I'm so naive as a drug dealer.
I'm so naive that I think that he's like, this is methadone.
I'm like meth. Like what the hell?
Like I really. Didn't have any clue as to what

(01:01:38):
I was doing or what was going onbut.
That's kind of. Gets me.
I'm like where do? You get this.
I meet a. Guy, he introduces me to a guy
who actually went to my high school, but he was older than
me, who said, oh, I can get you what you're looking for.
And I'm like, I gave him some money.

(01:01:58):
I was like, go get whatever it is and bring it back to me.
And he brings me back this pieceof paper.
And I. Unfold it and it's brown powder
and whoa. Yeah.
Yeah, it's because. I didn't.
Specifically ask for methadone or whatever I just said I want.

(01:02:20):
Whatever this. Is, and he, he said, I know he
said something like opiates or something.
He had mentioned it in some capacity, but I don't remember
what he said. And I'm like, sure that.
And he goes and I get it and it's like that.
It's just a little piece of paper with brown powder in it.
Fucking heroin. It was, yeah.
It was. Heroin.
I was, I, I had to have because I know I was 17 when I when this

(01:02:44):
happened, so. The year I was. 17 was intense,
yeah, because I, from the time Icould drive to the time we're at
right now, like I had already gone through that whole gamut.
I wouldn't even didn't have my license for very long at that
point, but. It's daytime.

(01:03:06):
I'm at my house, nobody's there because all my friends are still
in school. Oh.
Fuck, you know. So I just ripped this powder.
I just did it. You do the whole bag.
I did. And brother, yeah, I got so hot

(01:03:26):
again taking my shirt off. I'm like outside doing laps
around my barn because I'm like sweating.
You ever think you're? Dying at the moment, yeah, I do,
yes. I think that's exactly what was
happening. And then once again, I go throw
up, I pass out. I wake up, it's like 5:00 in the
afternoon and I'm like. Got to do that again.

(01:03:48):
Exactly. That was my first thought.
That was my first thought and. But you know in.
That I contacted that guy again and I'm like.
You know I. Want that.
Like, can you get me more of that?
At this point, I still have money and stuff too, so that

(01:04:10):
wasn't a problem, right? I was just like, I want to not
feel things. And so I I asked him if he could
get me more and he was like, well, I can't get that, but I'll
get something. I'm like, OK, whatever.
I don't know why I was so trusting.
Yeah, yeah. Whatever.

(01:04:31):
Let's do. It you know.
But. He brings me back.
It was a. Little it was a little pill.
They ended up being OC 80s. They were Oxy 80s.
Bam, so the king some. Little pill.
Yeah, they were big. Pills.
But how much you giving? Him like, what do you think?

(01:04:52):
I think they I. If I remember correctly, I think
at that time they were, it was like $0.50 a milligram.
Yeah, yeah. So is what I was 40.
Bucks I think. God, buddy.
Not bad. Yeah, but.
I'm like that OC 80 I would crush it up and then like leave
it somewhere in my room just like under something and I would

(01:05:14):
just hit on it like I didn't just like RIP the whole thing
like I would it would last thank.
God, you didn't. No, I know that.
Like they would last me a long time and I would just hit little
pieces of it. I didn't realize this whole time
that I'm getting so addicted. I don't, you know, you look back
and you don't realize how you don't know it, but it's like,

(01:05:38):
well, you're a kid. Yeah.
It's the same. It's not like I.
Knew any like heroin or pill addicts at the time either, you
know they don't open with that like hey, it's going to make it
real sick when you don't have it.
No, you go to. Dare and stuff like did you
guys? Yeah.
Yeah, Yeah, they didn't mention that part.
Yeah, they show you like a. Picture of like a drawing of

(01:05:59):
some kid that's supposed to be withdrawing and they're like in
a sweater and you know what I mean?
They're like, they look like a thug of some kind.
I don't even remember. That I don't either.
I don't know like. Yeah.
I was just like, do you rememberthe lion?
And don't sit and say no. And that was it, Yeah.
Yeah, they you don't. But they don't tell you.
Nobody tells you. No.

(01:06:19):
You're a kid. You have no idea that you can
become physically dependent on the substances.
Yeah. And I.
Can't really blame. Some of the.
Adults either because to be honest, like the pharmaceutical
wave of opiates was relatively new still like they obviously
there was heroin addiction. There was like Basketball

(01:06:41):
Diaries. There's like movies about this
stuff, but in terms of like easily accessible
pharmaceuticals that are that strong in a town like mine, they
didn't, they didn't have, there's no data.
There's no around the time that I was started, like around the
time that I was. Like before.

(01:07:01):
I tried that Oxy or the Roxy. There was a kid who went to my
school chat. He was four or five years older
than me. I didn't know him at all.
But he had passed away from an overdose.
And he was the only one yet at that point, to the point where

(01:07:21):
my mom came in my room was like,did you know Chet passed away?
And I was like, yeah, I heard. But it's small town.
So I didn't know him. But, you know, people talk.
Sure. I was like, yeah, I know.
And you know. She's.
Friends with my mom is friends with like, other parents who
their kids also know Chet and like that kind of stuff.

(01:07:43):
So that was my first. Like, holy cow.
Like people die from drugs. Yeah, like.
You know it. Happens, but you don't know it
happens until it's like, right? It's close.
To home, yeah, and even. That was still, like I said, I
didn't know him, but it was he. He had died of a heroin
overdose. And that was like, the town got

(01:08:05):
real weird after that because it's like, whoa, heroin, like
heroin's here. It's.
Here, Yeah. Yeah, and it didn't even
register while I was doing all this that I was doing the same
thing. Like I.
Know it. I'm like, you know, I'm taking
pills and doing my thing and going to be a rock star still,

(01:08:27):
you know, somehow this become. An everyday thing then?
Yeah, everyday. Because that's all I did.
Went to work, sold drugs, were the 80s.
Did they become the king like you just wanted them?
Yeah. And.
Then I would meet up with that other dude after work, like
every day, and I had money from work, but then I had money from

(01:08:49):
selling weed and stuff too, so he's meeting up with me too.
Because at this point I didn't realize he's a full blown heroin
addict. Oh boy, I didn't know that
because. I didn't know what.
That was so I had my car. I had stuff still.
I had a like a decently nice car.
And I had, I had these giant subwoofers in the back with like

(01:09:09):
LED lights that like would flashwith those songs and like a
ridiculous, like ridiculous. But so he's like, oh, hey, do
you need any of this? You know, because he's wanting
me to, of course. You know I'm his cash.
Yeah. Yeah.
So he, you know, we're going up and meeting this guy and this is
when I start getting into the city a little bit, meeting this

(01:09:33):
guy, getting the OC 80s. There was a couple times where I
ended up getting like like 40s or you know, it was like, but it
was, I was always going for OC 80s.
And then, you know, eventually he was like, I'm out.
I can't get any more. I hate that.

(01:09:54):
But I can get this. Other stuff, which was he's
like, it's much cheaper, you know, we can.
I think that was probably his plan the whole time.
And he probably could still get OCS.
Yeah, yeah. But he wanted to get me into the
heroin a lot easier to. RIP you off on heroin?
Yeah. Absolutely, instead of him.

(01:10:14):
Get a little bit out of the bag Exactly instead of him giving.
Me, my pills and I can see how many I bought.
Or he maybe. He's overcharging me a little
bit. I never cared about that.
Maybe he'd get one out of my 10 or whatever.
I never bought 10 at that time, actually, because I was.
I was going to get them like every other day, so I was
probably buying like one or two at a time at that point.

(01:10:37):
But then he's like, well, I can get the other stuff.
It's H And I was like, you know,he told me.
And I was like, damn, I guess I don't have a choice.
I have to buy it. Yeah, you know, And I still
didn't even know what withdrawalwas.
Which is crazy. To think about like I think.
Before you've. Experienced withdrawal.

(01:10:57):
It's not in, it's not like in existence in your mind.
So even though you're doing drugs, you're like, oh, I'm
sick. Yeah.
So I don't have. To think about it.
So I have to think about it, yeah.
It's like, oh, I like, I don't feel good today.
Some doesn't feel. Right.
Yeah, but you're. Not thinking like no, you're not
considering. It yet or if you.
Do it's like it's a hangover, you know, or something like
that. I remember.
Down. When I went down to Athens and

(01:11:18):
went to school, I had one night where I didn't have pills and I
couldn't sleep. Yeah, and I was like, what the
fuck? Like what's going on?
Why can't I fucking? Sleep.
Yeah. And come to find out, yeah,
that's why I couldn't sleep. It's a weird feeling.
Yeah, and, and it's weird when you just start going and you
can't tell anybody, you know, you can't talk about it with
anybody. Like, I feel like shit because

(01:11:40):
I've been doing all these OCS and I, you know, it's just a
weird, you're like, now you've now you've alienated yourself so
much more than you were just doing drugs.
And I know some people, you know, it's like amphetamines and
things. But for me, like, opiates was
the killer. Yeah, it's all I wanted.

(01:12:01):
But I ended. Up getting powder and we'd pull
up I'll I'll probably never forget this like.
Pulled up to meet. The guy who's different guy than
what we were getting the the Oxys from this guy pulls up and
he's in a Cadillac. It's all white Cadillac with all
tinted windows. You couldn't see through the

(01:12:22):
windows at all and. We'd.
Meet him every now, like every time we get H and like, you
know, he'd bring me back my powder.
I'd go home and I'd do the same thing I did with the Oxys.
I would just leave a little pileand I would just hit it here and
there. Just little bits.
I didn't want to get sick. I was, I didn't want to like be

(01:12:42):
throwing up everywhere. So I'm just doing a little bit
of time and I don't know how this happened, but I was the guy
that I was going up and get, youknow, you kind of trauma bomb
with those types of people. Like, so we're sharing, you
know, he's sharing, like, his addiction stories.

(01:13:02):
Like, dude, you'll be fine as long as you don't, like, use a
needle, you know, because he'd already been through that.
And obviously he's using a needle this whole time.
I didn't know that. He's like, I just don't use the
needle anymore. That's what, you know, that's
when you're too far. Yeah.
You know. Yeah.
And granted, like I, I wish the best for him for sure, but.

(01:13:26):
I had no. Business being in any of those
scenarios and so my Long story short, my stepdad became
diabetic. And.
Oh Needles, we found out that like he passed out at work and
ended up going to the hospital after he got diagnosed with

(01:13:49):
diabetes. He changed like dramatically
over the next 5 or so years. Like you, before that, I think
he felt terrible all the time and he was angry all the time.
After he was able to get the insulin under control.
He's a whole different person, whole different person.

(01:14:10):
But this is the. Crazy part.
He didn't. Get packs of needles.
He got the preloaded. Insulin pins.
Yeah, but me and my like, brain,the first time I shot up, nobody
did it for me. I'd never seen anybody do it.

(01:14:31):
I just heard him talk about it. I used or I, I one night, I
don't even know what was going on in my brain, but I grabbed
one of his used like injector things and you could like pull
the needle end off and like replace it.

(01:14:53):
But the medicine part, the cartridge was like the tube and
stuff. Can you still draw back?
On it I took it. Apart.
Oh God. And I took like a metal envelope
opener and, like, heated it up and bent the end and I jammed it
into the. I was like a rubber seal on the
back. They did it like that so that it

(01:15:14):
would just inject. And that's it, Yeah.
Yeah. But I was able to insert that
thing and and get it fastened towhere I could pull it out.
Wow. And so I had this freaking rig
that was like this long brother.And that was the first time I
ever shot up was in my room by myself.
Did you hit? No, no.
Hell no. Not at all, no.

(01:15:38):
But but I poked like this, you know?
I got that. Yeah, The muscle pop.
Effect and I when. You poke through the skin and
yeah, that's like the scariest when you never done this before.
Like we're used to that kind of thing.
So like, even now when I get blood drawn, it's like, yeah.
Oh yeah. Still, you know.
Whatever. But back then, it's like once
you get that part, OK, I, I put the needle in myself, right?

(01:16:03):
The rest? Is just bound to happen.
Golly. The next.
Time I was with him, I told him like, I tried this, blah, blah,
blah. You know, I didn't really feel
much. And he was like, oh, that's
because he's like, did you see blood?
And did you, you know that kind of thing, You know, like the
education? Of yeah.
And which is crazy because he was the one that was like, just

(01:16:24):
don't use the needle. But now he's like, well, since
you're already doing it, I want you to be safe.
You know God. Bless him for.
That right, right. Yeah, yeah, he saved the
freaking day. But, you know, and then so the
next time I was able to kind of watch and see what I was doing
and I the first time I saw that little blood burst.

(01:16:44):
Yeah. That's when I.
Yeah, I know. But I only.
Used like a little bit again. I was terrified.
So you were. Still using the your dad's the
fucking. Meat injector.
Holy shit. Yep.
I have. Never heard that in my life.
Yeah, that's wild. One of my friends.
Told me he was. He wasn't a friend, he was
older. And he's like somebody who I

(01:17:07):
ended up using with shortly after this because like that the
middle man that I was talking about that was kind of riding
with me ended up, I don't know, disappearing.
Probably. Which he comes back in later,
which is is a real crazy story, if I get that far.
But so there was a kid that I went to school with.

(01:17:31):
He was older than me. We were in Boy Scouts together.
He was kind of well known for like kind of just being a
burnout and stuff. And I everybody kind of knew
like he did harder drugs and like through a super wild series
of events, I ended up like meeting up with him and.

(01:17:52):
When he. Saw that rig that I've been
using he he was like and he's anavid user experienced and he was
angry with me because he he likedid know people who had passed
away and stuff and he was like, he said my name and he was like,
you are so ignorant. He said this is not a game.

(01:18:17):
He said I don't want to be doingthis And the fact that you're
like doing that, like using that.
And he was like. You.
It's like there's so many thingsthat can go wrong with this.
And he basically. Just laid into me as another
addict. But that's how.
I learned that at the time you could just walk up into CVS and

(01:18:40):
buy a pack of. Rigs, Yeah, I didn't know that.
Then, but now I do because he told me so.
But that's when I started buyingballoons of tar.
Yeah. Because that's what.
He they call them. Berries.
That's what he got. And so.
That's what led me to the Latinos and the whole operation,

(01:19:01):
Oh yeah, in Indianapolis. Big.
Big operation in India. That's good shit.
Yeah, that's the. Period from.
Them it was a different. World.
Yeah, that's when I learned thatthings are not as they seem like
in the world really. I saw in Indianapolis there's

(01:19:22):
like little kids that have like fully like an arsenal of
weapons. Yeah, yeah, You know what I
mean? They're guarding the other side
of the. World they're on.
Bikes like riding down, you know, like they'll kill you.
The movie shit. Yeah, like shit, you've seen the
movie. It is and when.
You say it out loud, it sounds like.
It just sounds. Made-up, you know?

(01:19:43):
But it's not like these kids. That's all they.
Know and they're they're like they will kill you and they also
get beat if they make a mistake like if they give you one too
many or they short you know something happens.
Maybe they get picked up by the police or they get robbed like
they're getting whooped. And I saw it happen a few times

(01:20:06):
and I'm kind of bouncing throughbecause this, there's so much.
That I, there's other stuff I want to get to that I'll never
get to if I go through every single time I used and every
group I used with and stuff. But Indianapolis has changed a
lot since then. I'm sure it's still is
happening, but it's like even those areas that were kind of
burnt down or coming back to life, it seems so like the

(01:20:30):
places where I would see those kids and see all that, sometimes
I'll drive, drive by that stuff.And it's becoming a little bit
gentrified. Yeah, I think so, yeah.
I think so. There's like the the same place
where I'd see these kids like ona bicycle with like a an AR
hanging off of them like in an alley.
Now I see like a mom walking a strong.
It's trippy like. It's real crazy but.

(01:20:52):
That. Is kind of the path I went down
for the next however many years,so you're full.
On yeah full on full blown now I'd be heroin user Yep and then.
I'm, you know, I'm getting packsof rigs and yeah, remember the
Cadillac that I told you about that guy?
I ended up realizing that the middleman guy I had that
disappeared like 3 months prior had used my phone to call him.

(01:21:17):
Oh yeah. So I'm like.
Boom. So now I didn't have.
To deal with this like Dick headthat was like always like how
bad how? Bad.
Was he gouging you when you finally met dude?
Oh. Yeah, it was half probably.
Of what? God.
Yeah. Probably half, but.

(01:21:38):
I liked. Getting the balloons, but it was
way more dangerous. And the guy who was I was
getting him from was just a Dick.
Like they're the guy that was like middle manning it for me.
He's like making me. He was like telling me how
terrible of a person I am the whole time.
And he's also a terrible person or worse, but you know what I
mean. He's just like, mean, so weird.

(01:21:59):
Aggressive. And so bizarre.
I think he had issues like otherissues like.
Because there's nothing behind that.
Like there's nothing for him to gain by doing that to you.
He's not manipulating you. No, it's not.
Normally it'd be the opposite, yeah.
Exactly. You and a groom.
Yeah, yeah. But it was totally.
Different So once I, I met the dude in the Cadillac, I called

(01:22:19):
him or I texted him and I was like, Hey, all those times that
you know, you met, you saw that car and you're meeting so and so
that was me, that was my money, that was my car.
I I just want to meet with you directly.
First thing he asked me is, how old are you?
I'm like 17. It's like he's like, all right,
Yeah, fucking all. Right.

(01:22:39):
Yeah, I'm already cool. Yeah.
Already committed a felony. Yeah.
And. He ended up actually becoming
like we became really close throughout the next several
years. I bet he would.
Well, yeah, for sure. It turns.
Out like he was another addict, you know, he and so countless,

(01:23:00):
countless countless days, middleof the day, middle of the night,
I would be in his car. It's all tinted out super nice.
We'd sit in like a parking lot and just die for a few hours.
Just shoot. Up and not out, just gone.
That's weird. I never trusted addicts as my
dealers. Ever.
Yeah, I hated. It I never did it.

(01:23:22):
Yeah, I didn't know. Anything else?
Yeah, I just thought sometimes you.
Get lucky. Yeah, sometimes you do.
I never. Had any he never like did
anything super crazy or like there's no like robbing or
anything that happened or I don't know with him it was never
like that. I met his parents like it would
like ended up actually like meeting his family and.

(01:23:45):
He ended up. Total.
I met his kid when he was explaining.
To the family, this is my friend, yeah.
Yeah. Wow.
And your parents don't see like signs of being an IV drug user,
Dude, I don't know. One time my mom asked me because
one of my friends told her, one of my actual friends like that
didn't do crazy stuff, said I think he needs help.

(01:24:05):
And she asked me. She was.
And I was like, no, you know, yeah, I like tried stuff and
whatnot. Like I went to Florida Keys and
like somehow got a bunch of salvia and a bong and stuff and
took it back home. And I, the first thing I did was
showed her what I got. Like she was always really cool
as long as I was honest with her.
If I was staying the night over here, yeah, dude, I can tell you

(01:24:26):
stories about that for sure. But if I was like staying the
night somewhere, I would. And I didn't want to drive
because I was drinking. I would call her and be like,
I'm staying here because we've been drinking.
And I was 1617, you know, was I telling the truth?
No, probably not because I did go other places.
But what I'm saying is I could tell her.

(01:24:47):
But so I was. That was the one time I just
straight lied. I was like, no, you know, I
would never do that stuff. Yeah, you know, I'd tell.
Your mom? Yeah.
And so I kind of ruined that, you know?
And that was it. I mean, they worked a lot, dude.
When I left high school, my dad didn't even know that I wasn't
in school. My stepdad, he never knew you

(01:25:08):
were. Until my.
Class graduated, he thought I. Was.
Going to school that whole time he had no no clue and never
came. Up in conversation like how
school today? Nope.
Because. I work during the day and I
would. If I.
Knew that I wasn't working. I would make sure I left and
then came back and then came back.
After he's gone. Yep.

(01:25:30):
Wow. Smart and.
I forget when you're. Telling me the story about like,
the guy in the car, like you're only 17, Yeah.
Yes, because all of this happened so fast and that's
what's hard for me to remember. Like I have nine years clean
now. Well, 25th February of 2015 is
when I actually completely got clean.
And so it was my, my graduating class was 2010.

(01:25:53):
So it was like from 17 until, you know, 2015.
So I was. I don't even know.
So O 9 to was. Just 15.
Off to the. Races.
Yeah, that's really. Fast.
You really escalated quickly, Yeah.
And and so at this point, I know, I know that I withdraw if
I don't have stuff, the dealing and stuff.

(01:26:16):
And that kind of fizzled out because I spent all the money
now I owed money. And now like there was a time
where I had a car, like my mom started finding out that I like
owed people this money. Yeah, because people were like
coming by my house and stuff. And but I didn't know, she
didn't know like that I was spending money on these other

(01:26:39):
things. She just knew that I was dealing
drugs and. I owed.
People. Money and I kind of utilized
that, you know, in a disgusting manner.
You know what I mean? I'm just like, This is why I'm
broke and I need money and I will.
I'm going to do whatever I need to do to get the money because.
I got to pay these people, yes. And which was true for a very

(01:27:03):
short time. And once that was handled, it
was just dope. Yeah.
And so I'm. With the guy in the.
Cadillac. Eventually, he.
Totals his car and so now and I had actually one night.

(01:27:24):
With the. Car that I had at the time, I
was driving one night and I was supposed to be going to a party
and I flipped the car over and some guy in a truck, remember
that hill I was talking about that went right into town right
before that hill I flipped my car over.
There was nothing. Out there, his middle of the
night, I was supposed to be the one bringing.

(01:27:46):
Like. Party favors to this Remember
the the place, the basement? I was telling you about where my
friends had parties. These were other friends.
These were childhood friends. These were not drug addicts.
OK. Folks.
This was a middle class neighborhood that they lived in.
So when I, you know, I've been using all night and in the city

(01:28:09):
and you know, with whoever, all these different people bouncing
around, grabbing all this different stuff and I'm driving.
I dropped my my friend off and when I got to the beat, the I
nodded out right before I got tothat hill and there's a ditch on
the side of it and I just rolledright into it.
Damn. Shit.
Cops never came. Nothing.

(01:28:30):
There was a another guy that wasa old country boy and his
girlfriend. Big truck came over the hill and
was like you need help and they went and got a winch and pulled
my car out. Damn.
And. All this is happening right
outside of town, like you could see the street lights on the
other side of the hill. I get in my car, it drives.

(01:28:51):
I made it to the party eventually at like 1:00 in the
morning probably. It's starting.
To rain, it's not. It's not raining hard, but it's
like a miss. I know that they're inside
partying still. I open my door to get out and go
inside and I take one step out and I fall out and I am just in

(01:29:15):
the street. ODI.
Woke. Up at about 10:00 the next
morning, the party was over, Everybody's gone.
His parents have done been home and left and I was still on the
side of the street and nobody saw.
You or they said, oh, they saw him.
Care just nothing. What the fuck?
No idea. No idea.
I have no idea. I My head was pounding because
of the position I was in and because I had lost blood flow.

(01:29:39):
I think that was the. First time I seriously OD.
There was several ODS after thatwhere I went to hospital and
things, but that one was it was shocking because I was in the
middle of this cul-de-sac. Yeah, you know what I mean?
What the fuck? Like beautiful houses and I'm
hanging out the when I've been rained on all night and my car

(01:30:00):
doors open like I woke up I. Shut my.
Car door I look and I just went home and so.
I told you about. The guy in the Cadillac totaling
his car, because now when he goes and picks up his supply,
he's calling me to take him. So this is my next in, you know,

(01:30:20):
to the inner city. Like I'm getting closer and
closer. Yeah.
And so we picked up one time andit was night time.
We had both been using and we had Baggies.
He had already broken a bunch ofstuff up.
And this is like heroin days. Like we're not pills.

(01:30:42):
We'd all that's gone. I didn't smoke weed anymore
because I got too paranoid when I would smoke.
I just wanted to do dope. And so we're driving back
through a town called Avon. I'm driving, taking him home,
and then I'm going to my house and I get pulled over and
there's probably maybe a little less than an ounce of heroin in

(01:31:07):
the car at the time and spoons and all the things.
Oh boy. And I get pulled.
We get pulled over. I'm driving.
I am. I was either, I had just turned
18. Oh, fuck.
Because I knew I was that. I remember that conversation.
I was 18. I had not been in trouble yet

(01:31:27):
and the cop gets comes to the side of the car and he's like,
you know, it's dark space, shinelight.
He's like, have you you know whyI stopped you?
And I was like, no idea. And I had to have looked blitzed
and your. Fucking car just oh dude this
shit too. Yes, mufflers.
Like all. It's like, loud as hell, you
know, like, yeah. And.

(01:31:49):
Like. I had put everything under my
seat. He did the same, but he had a
bunch of Baggies in his mouth. They were already tied up and
cop, you know, blah, blah, blah.You know why I stopped you?
And I'm like, no idea, officer, how are you doing today?
You know, like it was like, well, you're swerving
everywhere. And I was like, oh, I didn't
notice if you had anything to drink.

(01:32:09):
And I'm like no. Which I.
Could say that honestly, you know, have you done anything to
drink? No, absolutely not.
And then he I see another cop car pull up behind his and you.
Kind of know. It's over with and the second
one. Shows up and.
So this is actually. Wild so the.

(01:32:31):
Cop takes my license and stuff, goes back to the car.
The other police officer comes to my passenger side and says I
need your license to him and takes his license.
We're sitting there. He looks over at me and he's
like, I need you to take these charges.
And I was like, I can't do it. I can't do it.

(01:32:52):
Like my stuff's here? Your stuff, I mean, I'm not
going to take all, but. You get yours.
I got driving though. It's your car.
I know. And he said he's like, I'm on
diversion or whatever. He he was already in trouble and
he was like, I'm screwed and he was like, you'll at least get a

(01:33:13):
chance. And I was like, dude, I can't do
it. I just stopped talking to me for
you. I wouldn't have done.
It either and. He.
The cop comes back it literally like I'm shaking almost like
inside, not like I'm not like shaking but like I'm actually
like right now saying this like feeling the anxiety from the
situation he had comes back to the car.

(01:33:36):
He's like step out of vehicle and I'm like can't take my seat
belt off and I'm getting out. Another cop comes over grabs the
cop that's asking me to get out of the car and says come here.
He says something to him, whisper in his ear.
I'm standing outside the car. The cop.
Puts his hand on. My shoulder and he said, he

(01:33:57):
said, you know what, just be safe.
Have a good rest of your night. And they got in their cars and
left. It was what it was so crazy.
What I think actually happened is I think that when they took
his Idi don't have any evidence of this at all.

(01:34:19):
I just think that this is what happened.
I think that when they took his ID, he was either already
informing or he was already under investigation.
OK. So they want to talk about their
investigation, I think. I think I don't know that that
makes sense. It's the.
Only thing that makes sense or to get another.
Call but like because he didn't.They didn't take him out of the

(01:34:41):
car. There was no conversation with
either of us in the police. So there was no like talking.
It was just they came back, get out of the car.
So there was nothing that was said.
So we both, you know, I took himhome and.
We were silent. Did he?
I would say didn't. Get weird after that with you

(01:35:02):
guys because like you're not willing to take his charge.
That was butt hurt about it. No, he.
Apologized actually for asking me to do that.
He was like, you know, I'm panicking this and that, but I'm
also like, this is really dangerous.
Like my? First charge would have been oh,
you're. Fucked.
Absolutely. I would have been.

(01:35:23):
Decimated. You're going to prison.
Yeah, there's. No way around it, No.
And I'm in Hendricks County, which is not the city.
This is the suburbs. You are so.
Fucked and. But drop them off, Go home.
That's the end of. That shortly after one of my
friends and I go up to the city.It's Mother's Day.
Actually. I'm 18.

(01:35:46):
Neither of us could. Find anything and I we went down
to where we knew like people were that had dope and we cold
copping. On the corners.
And we picked up this dude and he had a duffel bag with him and
he was like go down over here, go down over here.
And we get pulled over with the guy in the car.

(01:36:07):
Oh man, and that was the first time I actually got taken to
jail. It was Mother's Day when they
get to bore. Needles.
That's it. Yep, we.
Hadn't made it to the spot yet and the guy that we picked up,
the only thing he had in his duffel bag were a couple of
burnt DVDs and a machete. Does it?
That checks out. And.
So he was like, you white boys are the cops.

(01:36:28):
And I was like, and when we werein processing, I'm sitting next
to him and I'm like, I told you,we weren't the cops.
Like, we're also here now. Yeah.
Yeah. Why?
Did so why did he get popped if he only had needles?
I think he had. A warrant or something, like
outside of I don't, I don't think he was even actually, to
be honest, I don't think he was one of the guys we were actually

(01:36:49):
looking for. I think he was just a guy who
pretended to be one of the guys on the corner and was going to
try to rob us some money. Yeah, sweet.
Karma work out in your favor then.
Yeah, probably. So what?
Happened to get a slap on the wrist because, like, it's got to
be a misdemeanor, right? Yeah.
It was a Class A misdemeanor, possession of paraphernalia, and
they towed my car and took a bunch of cash that we had and I

(01:37:11):
was in a Marion County for a fewdays and my mom bailed me out.
My buddy was also in there. He was in there for a little bit
longer and then he got bailed out.
What was? That.
Like jail for the first time so.Awful.
And I have friends who aren't inthat life that were like, I
couldn't do it, man. I couldn't do it.
And then I'm like, well, you don't have a choice.

(01:37:32):
Like you can either be in there and losing your mind to be one
of those guys or you just acceptit.
What it is, it doesn't. Matter how much you freak out,
doesn't matter if you cry, you're still there.
You're still. There, you're going to be there.
And this was in my limited knowledge of like my week there,
but this was also Marion County.So there's a CCA in Marion
County. Do you guys have a CCA here?

(01:37:53):
I don't think so. What's the CCA?
It's like. There's a bunch of them all over
the country there privately owned there it there's Marion
County Jail and then there's CCA.
Oh, so it's the. Private jail?
Yes, and. It's open dorm, so all the
lights are on, all the bunks arein the middle.
And it's it's like a prison campcourt sort of, but obviously

(01:38:16):
without the provisions of prison.
But it's it's bad. So Indianapolis has tunnels all
underneath. There's like old abandoned
tunnels everywhere. So you get processed at Marion
County Jail and then they chain gang you, hook you all up
together and drag you through the tunnels to CCA.
Courthouse Oh OK to C. To CCA and CCA was a trip you're

(01:38:41):
I'm assuming. You're going through it right?
Dub sick. Yes.
Yeah. Yep, that was my first
experience with that. Get arrested, get out.
You know I'm on probation now. My.
Girlfriend at the. Time, which that's something
I've kind of left out of this, but I had I had a several

(01:39:02):
different girlfriends throughoutthis whole thing and the people
I always dated were never on my level of that stuff.
I think it's because I wanted normalcy still and so I was
dating these girls who would like never do that.
Kind of thing. And so the girlfriend I had at
the time, she had broken up withme because of all the times I

(01:39:22):
was just nodding out in the Cadillac and like not answering
her calls. And one time her car broke down
and I was nodded out somewhere, you know, just that kind of
thing. One time I made her drive my
stick shift because I was nodding out.
Too bad she didn't know how to drive a stick shift.
And so she's all over the place and I'm, I can't even talk.

(01:39:43):
So she broke up with me and a friend of mine and I went to
Florida with his parents with the drug.
Dealer with your drug friend's parents.
No childhood. Friend, it was something we did
every year and that was the lastyear that we had done it.
Like I said, this is all when I was 1718 like this whole set.

(01:40:06):
Thing. So when I got arrested, it was
early 18. And so now I'm 18.
And one thing we used to do was we would get all these different
types of weed and we take it to Florida with us and his parents
were cool. So we drive down there and so I
did it again and I hadn't been smoking or anything because it
made me too paranoid. But I went and.
Found all these different types of weed and I was like, oh I'm

(01:40:29):
sorry I missed the fact that after I got arrested I went to a
Suboxone clinic like a little tiny 1.
You know, when they first started like becoming suburban
little doctor office, you had togo in and be withdrawing and
they would just, they prescribedme to three of the eights a day.
It's a lot. They a lot of dude, Yeah.

(01:40:50):
And they made you sit. There and take them all within
like 30 minute, like a 30 minuteyou'd take eights and then 30
minutes later you'd take anothereight you're getting.
Ripped. 20. 4 milligrams. I hated that.
Yeah. I didn't feel good.
I was. I hated.
It too, it feels. Like gross.
False. It's just gross.
Yeah. You're like disassociated with
everything and it's fucking gross.
I don't know how people use it to get high.
I mean, I'm, I do, but I don't like that feeling at all.

(01:41:14):
But it helped me not withdraw and that's.
Henceforth why you can go drive the Florida correct yeah, but.
I brought. Some a rig and a little bit of
dope with me and I was using it on the way to Florida, OK.
Which was so. Stupid.
I'm with him and his family, yeah, but also.
Aren't you wasting the fucking dope because you're on Suboxone?

(01:41:36):
I you. Can still do both.
I think on suboxone can't you I?Knew and I waited to take that
last bit of Suboxone, I think the first the last one I took so
when I was using it on the way up there, I, it was probably
blocking it a little bit. But that next day, yeah, I was
right back into, yeah, OK, dope using.
And but so I took, I took a Suboxone.

(01:42:00):
Then we ended up on the road andwe're you know, I'm doing dope
the whole way down there, truck stops and stuff.
When we get there and I'm unpacking and stuff.
This at this point, at one of the truck stops, I was out of
dope. So I threw the rig away so we
wouldn't be driving with it. Threw all that stuff away.
Granted, I have a big jar of weed, but we're down in Florida

(01:42:22):
and I'm like, OK, cool. This is my I just got out of
jail. This is my break.
You know, that was my last hurrah with the dope.
You know that goes. I got the Suboxone now and I'm
unpacking my stuff and I realized I forgot to bring the
Subs. The suboxone wasn't Indian.
Indian buddy. Dude, yeah.

(01:42:43):
Oh, your heart. Sunk to your stomach, buddy.
Oh my God, long way from home. But you know what's?
Crazy is I didn't withdraw. Much at.
All I was there for a week and ahalf and we were on the beach
walking around and you know, it was hard to sleep that first two
nights, but I don't know what itwas.
Dude, I like you, Hung. Tough, I like.

(01:43:07):
Didn't feel it like I normally would have.
It was like. Weird to me, I, I took it as
like, it was a sign, like, you know, like, sure.
From the heavens above. Yeah.
You know my life is going to be good now you're cured.
Now this is got it out the way, this is my moment.
Long story short, I get back, I pick up.

(01:43:28):
Some of the the. Last like check I had from
Wendy's, I was still working at Wendy's this whole time.
And I, my friend and I, when we're back in Indianapolis
again, he's done this stuff withme here and there.
But he wasn't like a user like this.
Like he would do some coke with me.
He'd do a little bump of age with me just sometimes.

(01:43:49):
But he wasn't like he never got into it like that.
But I'm like hey, we're back in Indianapolis.
For whatever reason I go straight to the dealer but I
have my buddy with me because wehad just got back.
I don't know if we got back and picked up my car or something
because we were this family too.I don't remember how that
happened, but it was me and him in my stick shift and we were I

(01:44:11):
was going to get dope and he didn't know what I was doing.
So I don't know if you thought Iwas getting something else or
whatever. I told him at the time after I
get the stuff, end up getting some dope, pull over in Acvs
parking lot and I was like, willyou go in and get a bottle of
water or something or whatever. I think actually I think he knew

(01:44:31):
what I was doing because he was doing it with me.
But again, he wasn't like it wasdifferent man.
He never was. He was just like, this is a fun
experience, you know? Didn't care that there.
Wasn't any other grandkids. Yeah, he's that.
Was how he was and his parents smoked weed and stuff.
They're all pretty hardcore, like just good people and like
tough people. You know, when he goes into CVS,

(01:44:56):
Apparently I fell out and died. Dude.
Yeah. Damn.
So I don't know. Where you.
Sent. Him on a dummy mission I guess
I. Don't know, 'cause I had water
apparently I I asked him to go in and get water.
I remember that and then. He came back out.
And he pulled me out of the car and some old lady called an
ambulance to call the police andhe's like trying CPR and stuff.

(01:45:16):
You're legit dead. I'm dead.
Yeah, that was Easter of when I was 18, I think.
Yeah, yeah, I was. I was 18 because I had died.
I woke up in the hospital. A day and a.
Half later, my mom was there, mydad was, my stepdad was there.
As soon as my eyes opened, he's yelling out.
Oh. Damn, yeah.
That's when it came out. Jordan's parents were there.

(01:45:40):
Yeah. That's when everybody knew, you
know, And then I went to rehab and I remember I was still 18
because we could smoke cigarettes.
So they and I was 18. So they put me in like the
adolescent wing and, you know, Istayed there for 30 something
days, got out, went right back to it.
So no. Idea of like, maybe I'll stop

(01:46:02):
doing drugs. I thought I was.
Going to and I thought I learnedthings because, you know, you
get all you probably did learn. Yeah.
And like, yeah, and. You know, you're not withdrawing
anymore. Yeah.
And I, that's what I told myselfis I only use because I
withdraw. You know, I only use because I
feel sick. That's so if I'm not feeling
sick, then I'm good. And so insurance paid for 30

(01:46:22):
days or whatever. And it was a nice facility.
It was fine. It was good.
There was some kids in there for, like, nothing, you know,
like their parents, something there 'cause they, yeah, or
something. But I still had this massive
ego. So by the time I wasn't
withdrawing, I was like, you know, wanting to what am I
doing? Here.

(01:46:43):
Yeah, like don't talk. To me like this, like I'm not
one of you. Like, you know, I knew it, but
at the same time I was like, still kind of, you know, kid
mouthed off to me and like, I'm,I'm like, I'm going to break
your face because now I'm like feeling good again.
They got a couple. Pounds on you?
Yeah, I'm not like. You know, it's just all ego.
And. That was how it went for the

(01:47:04):
next in and out rehab. You know I met.
AI. You.
Meet a rehab girl. I did.
I did, but we didn't. It wasn't.
It was just in rehab. So I didn't like. 13th step it
you know so like. After rehab, it ended.
Yeah, it was. Over.
I didn't. I didn't want to go down that

(01:47:25):
road. I was going to say that.
'D be a disaster I never wanted.To have two of us.
That's another mouth to feed, yeah.
Yeah, I went back to the you know, I had a girlfriend then I
went back to the guy who I did did was getting the tar with and
at some point after I'd been to rehab twice and this is all like
now I'm like 19, like I'm still not that old and I've been to

(01:47:46):
rehab a couple times and I move.My mom was like dumb with me at
this point. She was like dropped me off the
last time I was like asking for money.
We had people that are come to our house and you know, she had
to pick me up in the hood a couple times.
Like it was at one point she waslike you're she's a St. like,

(01:48:07):
you know, my grandparents were like salt of the earth humans
like. But that last she at one point
she looked at me and she was like, I don't have a son.
Damn, like your dad blocked my phone number was gone.
A pastor local into town like bought me a hotel room for a few
nights doing the homeless thing.Winter dead of winter ice, ice

(01:48:31):
everywhere. It was like one of those years
where it was just ice storm. Fuck.
I had a dealer that, you know, was like.
Like if you drive me to Saint. Louis, I'll do that, but I
didn't have a car or anything atthis point.
I'm skipping through to kind of get.
Towards some of. The the end of this journey
because it was really that kind of thing over and over and over

(01:48:54):
again. Different girlfriend, different
rehab, different, you know, you know how it goes.
And I one of my friends family took me in.
I ended up. Getting into like speedballing
and now I'm like, I won't do it without both.
Yeah, you got to. Have both, yeah, yeah.
Bad, bad road to go down middle of the.

(01:49:17):
Snow, dude, they have little kids still like in the house and
it's like snow outside and I'm like speedballing and like
running around the house trying to get my heart to like, not
stop And I'm like splashing, youknow, snow in my face like just
a. Ridiculous.
Train wreck. Absolute.

(01:49:37):
Train wreck. I don't know how I, you know, I
had IO DD in like a McDonald's parking lot or no in a
McDonald's bathroom and I fell and smoked my head on the sink
and passed out. I woke up to paramedics on a
stretcher. Police were like, I did
everything I had on me. So they asked my girlfriend at

(01:49:59):
the time, like if you take him, we'll let you take him, but if
you don't want him, we're takinghim to jail.
And she was like, don't take himto jail, you know.
Then I got I got arrested because for theft, finally petty

(01:50:23):
theft. It.
Was at the time it was a felony it.
Was it was AD? Felony and there was also some
credit card fraud, stuff like that that it ended up getting
dropped. I had stolen checks, a bunch of
stuff like that. A lot of everything got dropped
besides the D felony theft and AB misdemeanor reckless use of

(01:50:43):
paraphernalia. What were you?
Stealing whatever jewelry. Like, oh, just yeah, anything.
Whatever. How the fuck are you stealing?
Jewelry. Like houses.
The house. Yeah.
I thought you were doing like, like shoplifting.
No. OK.

(01:51:04):
No. And I, it's weird because I, I
know, like, secrets are what kill, you know, like when we
carry secrets. Like, you're still sick, right?
But it's also hard to discuss and talk about things I never
got caught for. Oh yeah, yeah.
Probably. Should, but you know, it's, it's
tough going through it and because I'm I'm just now

(01:51:24):
remembering a lot of the stuff too, but that was a turning
point too as I get arrested. I ended up doing like 6 months
in county. That's a hole.
In the county jail, Yeah, yeah. I got adoc number but they never
took me. I just ended up because it's
it's it's one year due half. I don't know if it's if it's
like that here. Whatever.

(01:51:46):
You sentence, you get sentence, you do half.
Oh no. So like if you get sentenced to
a year, you're doing 6 months inin in jail.
Oh, really? Yeah.
What did we get since like 3 years?
You're doing, you're doing a year and a half in county, Yeah,
No, no. No, if you get 3 years, you're
going OK. So if it's.
Like a year under, a year and a half.
Then if you're in county, yeah, there's a chance.

(01:52:09):
They'll pick you up and take youto RDC for processing just to
shave your head and give you thenumber and all the things.
But most time the bus won't come.
So I ended up going through thatwhole thing.
I, I got locked up. Holy cow, I'm remembering now.
I went to, I got locked up whileI was in rehab.

(01:52:34):
Remember I told you I was livingwith a, you know, a friend and
their family and stuff. Well, I went to rehab while I
was living with them. They had like interventioned me,
went to rehab, went to sober living, which was like right on
the rehab camp right outside thecampus.
There were apartments, met people that were drinking and

(01:52:55):
stuff. So we start drinking, smoking,
K2 and like all the things, I get kicked out.
So. My mom gets me a hotel room at
like a super 8 so I can still goto the meetings.
She was doing everything she possibly could without being
involved with me there. I meet people who are like.

(01:53:18):
Doing. Crazy stuff.
And one of them I went to see, Iwalked to CVS with one of them.
One of the kids was he stole a bottle of alcohol or something.
And the police came and I was sitting there standing there
like not thinking anything of it.
And the police were there and I was just showing like going to

(01:53:40):
tell him like they asked if I'd stay and give him a statement
because I didn't steal the whatever.
It was some other kid who also goes to that treatment place
like IOP. So I didn't like go there with
him. I was there at the same time.
But I knew who he was and he like ran in, grabbed a bottle of
alcohol and ran out. And so I'm like, cool, yeah,
whatever. And then when they get there,

(01:54:01):
they're like, you have warrants.And I'm like buddy.
Cool. Yeah.
I guess this is. Yeah, this is what's happening.
Wow, that. Sucks.
Yeah, that's what. Led me to do the six months
arrested in. Rehab.
Yep. Yep, and I got out and I was
going to just dude, I was going to buy a tent and just live in

(01:54:21):
the woods by myself. I like found like my
spirituality in jail, dude. I figured out how to like lucid
dream and like all kinds of crate.
All I did was read books. I know I was only in there for
six months, but I was working out and reading books.
Dog, that's a. Hall in the county.
That's especially when you don't.
Go outside. Yeah, it's not like.

(01:54:42):
Oh, you guys. Didn't have wreck either.
We don't have a wreck in Franklin County.
It's 24 hour lockdown. Yep, that's.
How it is and it's fucking brutal.
They'll open. The block up for like dinner
time, TV time, but then it's back to yourself.
So I don't know if it's like 23 or what the 23.
And one I don't think it is. There was more.
There was more, there was more day room time than that.

(01:55:05):
I just don't know what it was. But yeah, Hendricks County, that
was where that was at. I got out.
One of the guys I used to play music with, he like took me in
and out in one of those little tiny towns I was talking about
that makes up the three towns, but it was the one furthest away
from everything. So I move into his basement and

(01:55:27):
we like, put a band back together, you know, start
playing music again and everything is cool.
They're clean for a while. Yeah, OK.
Yep. Until I started, like I was
hanging out with another friend who's local and he was like
doing cocaine. So I'm like, now I'm at this
point, I'm 19 and I'm like maybe20.

(01:55:51):
And I'm like, yeah I'm 20, I'm 20 cuz I couldn't buy alcohol
yet. He was like.
Maybe, or I was like, maybe if I, if I just don't do heroin or
an opiate, I'll be just fine. You know how that goes.
So now I'm blasting cocaine in this basement watching all of
lost, you know, and like just like stuff like that, like I'm

(01:56:15):
just playing music and just likebeing a freaking piece of junk.
No, it wasn't working. No, no, but people came over and
they always like had cocaine or whatever because we play.
This is where they came to us toplay music.
So they would bring whatever they had until one of them, one

(01:56:37):
of my old friends from back in the day brought a little bit of,
he brought some like they're like hydrocodone or no, they
were it was methadone. I.
Don't know why I thought it. Was hydrocodone.
He brought methadone and I took one like an idiot came.

(01:56:59):
Over. And then I we went to a party
and I saw another guy who ended up having a Roxy and I took that
damn. And then it was just.
Right back. Right back, but I'm having.
To find rides from the middle ofnowhere lost.
Your mail ticket in that car, man.
Yeah. And I had a.
Couple cars there was, there wasa few cars in there, actually

(01:57:21):
all gone, you know, and 20 yearsold.
I'm not even old enough to drinkyet and you know, so I'm back to
it. Somehow I.
Met a girl through music, she needs a guitar player for a gig
she was playing. So I, I applied and then I ended

(01:57:45):
up dating her and we like did that whole thing because I was,
I was like, you know, we're likeweird, crazy manipulative people
and so. Did I?
Ever. Like actually belong with or
even. Like any of.
These people, I don't necessarily think so.

(01:58:06):
I think it's a It's all about what can I get?
Even when you're. Not using if you're not, if
you're not healed or healing, then that's where you're going.
What can I take from? You, yeah.
You're not thinking that, but. At the end of the.
Day that's what it is for being honest yeah and there was a

(01:58:28):
bunch of crazy stuff that happened with that her and I
ended up moving to Warsaw IN outthe middle of nowhere 3 hours up
north and now I'm really like I'm like taking the car when I
can and driving all the way backto Indy to go to the hood and
rushing back and I'm going 90 nodding out cars coming straight

(01:58:48):
at me and I'm barely missing them and like.
Jesus, that didn't last. Long until I couldn't be away
from Indy and I broke up with her because I needed to be.
And. Another friend of mine that I
hadn't seen in a long time didn't know that I was this
level and he let me stay with him and one night he would let

(01:59:14):
me borrow his car because I didn't have one at the time.
And so I'm like looking for a job and stuff, which I was, but
I didn't really care at the sametime.
And. I freaking take his car and I
am. I've got a bunch of Xanax
somehow. And I.

(01:59:34):
Ended up getting dope somehow and I'm sitting on and I go to
the city. I'm sitting on the side of the
road and I'm not out until somebody's banging on the
window. I wake up and I just peel out
and take off because I'm panicked.
And I went straight and I rear-ended.
I ran straight into the back of somebody right in the middle of
downtown. Guy gets out and he's like
pulled over like. Pull your car.
He's like screaming. At me, some older guy and.

(01:59:59):
I pull over. And he gets out of his car and I
peel out, take off. And after I peeled out and took
off, I'm like driving around. And somehow, because of how
Indianapolis is set up, it's a bunch of one ways and it's all
gridded. And it's a.
And 465 is a big circle around Indianapolis.

(02:00:21):
I'm just. Panicking and I take off and
somehow I end up right back at the scene of the crowd.
Oh boy. And now I'm running out of gas.
Wow, buddy. And I'm just.
Panicking and I had taken Xanax and stuff and I'd done dope at
the same time and I hit I'm I'm I come to a stop sign and I

(02:00:41):
didn't stop soon enough and I skidded through the stop sign.
There was a cop sitting right there.
So she pulls me over. Right, and there's.
This whole investigation going on like on the other side of
town, God. And so she pulls me over and
she's like, somehow she's like, I'm, she's like, your license is
suspended. I don't even remember.

(02:01:01):
When that happened, apparently my license got suspended, like
at some point. Some point, yeah.
And I was like, oh, no, I didn'tknow that.
Yeah, I'm so sorry. And I was like, I just didn't
see the stop sign. You know, I'm, she basically
told me to pull over and say, can you have somebody come and
get you because your license is suspended?

(02:01:23):
I'm just waiting on the radio call or the whatever that's
going to tell her that, you knowwhat I mean?
And I'm in a car that's not mine.
And they're like not asking me about it or anything.
And so I called my buddy who I was like who I had lived with
before I met that girl out middle nowhere.
I'm like, dude, I need someone to just come get me and he's

(02:01:45):
like, I can come get you, but it's going to be like 2 hours
before I get there because middle of nowhere downtown.
And I was like, cool. And so the cops sitting there
with me for like 30 minutes, yeah, she made me give me her
keys or she made me give her my keys.
And eventually she's like looking at her phone.
She's like, look, I'm getting tired of waiting.
She was like just don't let me see you drive away and gave me

(02:02:06):
my keys back. Wow.
Then. I drive back into town.
I curbed the car, blew out the front wheel.
Pulled into the. Wendy's that I used to work at,
I'm all over the place. Somebody calls the cops, I'm
inside charging my phone or something.

(02:02:29):
Somebody calls the cops, cops come, they're talking to me.
And I was like, they couldn't see the car, like all the way
because it was pulled in like bythe dumpster.
And I was like, I told him that.I told him something like I'd
either got in a flat tire and I pulled over, but they got, they
took my ID and they were like, your license is suspended.

(02:02:50):
And I was like, I know I had already gotten pulled over and
that's why I'm not driving. So I want somebody, I'm waiting
on someone to come get me. The cop let me use his phone and
then left. It's.
Unbelievable. How bad is the?
Car fucked up man Dude I. Was driving probably 3 miles
where it's just sparks coming out and this is not like the

(02:03:11):
front of the car. That smashed into the other car
it. It wasn't too bad, not too bad.
No. He had it.
The car I hit was an SUV and I was in a little like I don't
grand am or. Something I went.
Right underneath it. So it like got up by the like
halfway up the hood was a big dent.
But other than that it wasn't bad.
Like I didn't like smash into it.

(02:03:32):
I like just kind of went right underneath him.
Excuse me. Well, eventually I just got in
the car and like drove it to a little parking lot away from the
Wendy's, a little gas station. And I posted on Facebook like,
I'm stuck. Somebody give me a ride and some
person from my school that I hadn't seen in like, forever,

(02:03:52):
what felt like forever, pick me up and took me back to that
apartment that I was staying at.How much?
What did? He say next.
Morning he was like. Where's my?
Car and and so he has his mom take him to go get the car.
Oh boy. And.
He comes back and was like what the fuck?

(02:04:14):
He looked at me and he said, areyou?
Like he, he. He was like.
Are you all? There in the head like pretty
much, you know, and I was like there was nothing left to be
said. So I packed up and yeah, I.
Mean that's it. My to my parents.

(02:04:34):
I had been living with the girl in Warsaw.
I came back and was living with him.
And, you know, they didn't, theyhadn't seen me in a long time.
So I told him I was like, you know, I'm good.
We're just, this isn't working out.
Can I please move back home? And my dad came and got me, my
stepdad and back home. And then a detective showed up

(02:04:55):
at my house the next day. At their house, at my parents.
Yeah. About the car.
Perfect. About.
The one in the city where you smashed into the guy?
Yep. So.
The guy I hit was a Marion County judge that.
Suck yes on the capture. Camera.
Or, well, they went. To my buddy's house first
because it was his car. Yeah.
And they were like, no, it was him.
How they know whose? Car though how they find out the

(02:05:16):
car make or the you know becauseI've been pulled.
Over like 3 times I think. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure.
Somebody got it, you know, I'm certainly one.
Of the officers got the tags, yeah.
I think so, but, and I'm sure that they were pressing charges
on me too. I don't, I don't even really
know because I eventually like was with a guy.

(02:05:39):
He was like, and I was leaving my parents and he's like, Hey,
let's go get some Roxy's and I'mlike, cool, let's go.
We go pick him up. We pull into a parking lot or a
neighborhood to do them. And this is when fentanyl
started. Like you just started hearing
about it. So we would look for it and it
was, it was H, but it was, you know, it was like Gray and like
it was like a different color, different shade and stuff.

(02:06:01):
And then people were doing the patches.
But I had not seen a a pressed fentanyl pill at that point that
I had that I was aware of. But I had, you know, the pins
and needles, the different like,you know, I add up until then I
had done like, you know, dilaudids and like just really
whatever, anything, any opiate that you can think.

(02:06:22):
Of. Yeah, and the OCS were still
big. I'd get them whenever I could,
but then they became like the. Overly expensive.
Well, they were the. Change of the.
Formula. Yeah, the formula.
So we'd try to like cold and water extract and stuff.
Everything so. Many Yeah, the microwave,
microwave and. Yeah.
But we're as soon as that happened, it's like, OK, that's
done and. You know.

(02:06:46):
Did all this stupid stuff. I end up getting arrested again
because the guy was with, you know, he was like, we got pulled
over and he was in the military and he was like.
It's in. He all of his stuff is in the
center console of his car. I was like, OK, cool.
And then his. Girlfriend came, picked him up,

(02:07:06):
I went to jail and I also forgotI had a needle in my pocket and
so the cop put his hand in my pocket.
He was big no no. Piss Big no no yes, yeah, he did
not treat. Me very well.
The rest of the rest of the tripwas it.

(02:07:27):
Capped, at least. Yeah, it was capped.
Thank God. Yeah.
Oh my. Gosh, dude, yeah it.
Was capped. But so I end up going to jail
again. I don't even remember how long I
was there. Three months or so.
And then they're like, Devin, you're released.
And I'm like, cool. So I have my little thing and

(02:07:47):
I'm walking out and they and I'mliterally get on the elevator
and the guy was like, hold, holdon.
And so I'm like walk out of the elevator.
I had a hold in Marion County because of that and my I called
my attorney over there and said I'm in jail in another county.
He's like, don't worry, I got ittaken care of.
You won't all reschedule your court date and stuff.

(02:08:08):
They didn't nothing. You know, I get it though.
I'm just a number at that point.Yeah, I was an idiot too.
So I can't, I'm not even mad about it.
But so then I do the rest of it at Marion County Jail one and
then, you know, I get out. I had moved to Bloomfield, IN.
I was like baling hay, doing good, but I was drinking.

(02:08:31):
But I was like just wanted to belike a middle of the country.
Like I wanted to be like blue collar.
Like I just wanted to leave it all behind.
Drink like a. Gentleman bail some fucking hay.
Exactly. Yeah, exactly.
But I was with a girl and that didn't work out.
So I met another girl who was doing OK in life.

(02:08:52):
I was doing OK in life. I started landscaping.
I was, I didn't, you know, I gotinto trades and I started
actually doing things. But the drug part was still just
barely there. But I was like doing ketamine
and things like that as I just as I could, you know, can't say
the drug. Part's barely there and then
drop. Ketamine, Yeah.

(02:09:13):
It's, I'm trying to remember when all of these things
happened. And, you know, but in my
infinite stupidity, I thought that I could, like, I would come
and meet with my, my, that girl.And I actually got a little
place together and we were actually going to do the adult
thing. And.

(02:09:33):
But like, what I thought was a surprise was me bringing home a
bag of ketamine that I found somebody had.
We can do this together. And she looked at me with
straight disgust. Yeah.
Like that's. When I was like, OK, this isn't.
And then I had an infection in my mouth and dentist was like,
well, we can't operate on it until it's cleared out, so

(02:09:55):
here's the antibiotics and here's some hydrocodones.
And I was like, OK, stupid, you know?
And then I just kept going back and they would just give me more
hydrocodone like for months. Damn.
Yeah. Yeah, I just go back and say I
think it's still infected and still hurts and they would just
give me more hydrocodone until eventually they cut.

(02:10:17):
It off, of course it's a different.
Time to it was. It was a.
Whole day. They're not doing that shit.
No, this was. When the opiate thing like it
had swarmed these towns all at this time like you could go in
for a Midwest was fucking. Ravaged.
Dude, yeah, because people were going to Florida and going all
these different places to just get massive amounts of pills and

(02:10:38):
so they'd bring them back to these towns like that I lived in
and make money and. Dude, yeah.
You didn't need that much to like in terms of like to find
that stuff, right Back then, doctors were just handing it
out. It's crazy to think about,
really. So I, you know, I did all this
craziness the last. Her and I.

(02:11:00):
Ended up I ended up using again with with her.
We had a house and I not with her she wasn't using but I ended
up because of the two thing and the hydrocodone and I called up
a dealer and a buying dope againwent through the whole gamut.
I found a music. Treatment.

(02:11:22):
Like a music recovery program that Wes Gear used to like play
in the band Korn back in the day.
And he was in like head PE. He had put this whole thing
together really. And I got a grant and went out
there and did this like music program with him.
It was crazy. That's kind of cool.
I. Flew out to.
California they met me like had a little sign with my name on it

(02:11:43):
and we were doing this. I had to go through a they made
me do like a go to a detox facility before I was able to
like go into this thing with them.
But after I did like the 10 day detox or whatever it was, they
put me in a like a big house with like a bunch of other

(02:12:04):
people playing different music and stuff.
And then we went and did like a rock to recovery is what it was
called, where we would just likewrite songs and stuff with other
recovering right up your. Alley, yeah.
And then? Eventually I.
Flew back to. Indianapolis because I thought I
wanted to be with that the girl I had left and that didn't work

(02:12:27):
out. And when was?
The final trip to rehab I was yes.
I'm sorry it took so long to getthere.
No, you're well. You're fine.
The last. Time it was right after I got
back from California. I had moved in with like a
couple buddies because they didn't work out with her and we

(02:12:48):
just like it was like small frathouse.
And so once again, guy brings over some whatevers I'm making
like shroom tea and I'm just right back to like being the
wild crazy. And then I get back into
opiates. This is all really quick.
So after I get out of that, after I come back from
California, it's like boom, immediate, like right back into

(02:13:09):
all this stuff. And at one point I.
Was like. I need I'm taking Valium and
doing dope like in heavy amountsand I went to a literal detox
facility. They had no program whatsoever.

(02:13:30):
They put me in a room and I was detoxing off of benzos and
opiates. They put me in a room with a bed
and it's like tile and like concrete walls because I didn't
have anything at that point. I couldn't pay for anything.
So I'm dude, I'm throwing up everywhere.
I'm, I'm hallucinating. That was the worst I've ever

(02:13:50):
withdrawed by far I'm sure. I was full.
On hallucinating, seeing people talking to them, they were
coming in yelling at me to cleanup, clean it up.
I didn't even know where I was. I didn't know what planet I was
on until eventually like a few days later I came out of it and
it was the. Benzos that fucking gotcha.
That's wild, bud. I was sweat.
Like I was talking to people I didn't know that I was in a

(02:14:13):
facility because when I checked myself in, I was like barred out
and on. Yeah.
So I don't even know where I wasat.
But after that, I left after like 14 days of that.
I used once. And then I thought I just, it

(02:14:35):
didn't feel right. And I literally stopped.
And I've never used ever since then.
Wow. I quit.
I I vape, I quit smoking cigarettes, I quit drinking, I
haven't had a sip of alcohol, I quit all drugs, I don't smoke
weed, nothing. And now, and I just took it one
day at a time, literally until years had passed.

(02:14:56):
You quit. Everything quit all.
Of it just at once and I had already gone through the detox,
the brutal part of the detox anddude I was like I need to do
something. I after that didn't work out, I
moved in, back in with my parents, which was crazy.

(02:15:17):
They took me in for. I got back with that girl for a
little bit after I got clean. So there was actually like 2
years, I say a little bit, but it was like 2 years, two more
years that I was with her clean,making something myself,
learning trades and things like that.
Still didn't work. Out too much water into the
bridge, move back into my parents because they knew I'd

(02:15:39):
been clean for a couple years stayed with them and I was
working like I wanted to learn business.
I wanted to learn finance. I wanted to my my mindset
changed entirely and. I wish that they.
Would come up with another term for addiction to be honest,
because I truly believe that it's a culmination of like a

(02:16:01):
it's like a multi diagnosis of mental issues.
There are people that I would call, it's not the right term,
but there are people that I would call addicts who still
have not used drugs. They're just they have the same
exact behaviors, the same exact mental like.
There are the arguments there because, you know, before I even
picked up a drink or a drug, I would steal shit.

(02:16:24):
I would fucking. I was stealing.
I remember I stole my friend's, like, holographic Pokémon card
and I stole my dad's quarters togo buy an RC car at RadioShack.
And like all those things. I was doing all that shit
without a drink or a drug. And I was a kid, dude.
Yeah. Exactly.
It's the mindset. And there's people who are
adults that will, unfortunately,they're going to be in a box

(02:16:45):
forever. And you know, they call it
addicts. But in.
Reality. I think that it would be less
stigmatized if they could figureout.
How to? Talk about it in terms of the
mental health because I don't think I would have ever gone
down that road if it weren't forthe environment, plus the
anxiety and OCD issues. I was going to say.

(02:17:07):
Your dual diagnosis, obviously, that's exactly.
The right and so was I. Dual.
Diagnosis like. That's I think that.
That's crucial. Yeah, personally and but since
dude I'm married now, I Congrats.
I've been married. For several years and when I met
my now wife she had two little girls and I've raised them.

(02:17:30):
One is 8 and one is 10 now and we have a baby boy that's on the
way is be born next month. I got really lucky, found people
to kind of learn from that mentored me, started at the
ground level of some businesses,the service based businesses,
blue collar type businesses and.I got really.

(02:17:54):
Really lucky because I was at the very ground level and they
showed me and I was a part of building.
And since then I've been able tostart businesses.
I've been able to I manage like a pretty successful business now
and. It's it's all the.

(02:18:15):
Things that I used, when I was using, it's all of those same
traits that got me here. But that's why, you know, when I
talk about the meetings and stuff, I believe it's good.
Like, especially if you're new in recovery, like you need to
be, you need to be in a community like that, Yeah.
That's why. I also don't look down on
Suboxone and stuff like that because dude, I get it.

(02:18:39):
I completely understand it like.What?
You need is time away from that life, whatever gets you there.
What? Whatever.
Gets you that year away from that life and I'm talking away
from it entirely away from the people, away from everything.
Whatever gets you to where now by the even people who are on

(02:18:59):
Suboxone, by the time they have to face that now they have a
support network again, now they have a job again, Maybe they're
doing things again. Maybe they're their life is
getting better now. So you don't have the soul
crushing guilt and anxiety, evenif you do have to go through
Suboxone withdrawals. So that's why people talk about
about that. I don't look down on it at all.
I used to. I I did too, yeah.

(02:19:19):
I was like big time fuck methadone, fuck Suboxone.
It's a ball and chain. And then my mom died of an
overdose. Yeah.
And my whole. View.
Shifted because if she had been on Suboxone she would have died,
no? That's it.
Because that shit, I mean, let'snot forget it can kill you.
Yeah, very easily, Yeah. One thing I've started doing is

(02:19:43):
asking people if you could deliver a message to somebody
that's still struggling out there, what would it be?
That's a great. Question.
I think about where I was and what somebody may or may not
have said to me because there wasn't a lot of information back
then. There was not a lot of advice.

(02:20:03):
There was. There was none.
Yeah, to be quite frank. Exactly.
It was a different ball game, but what I've learned is that
what is out there for you? Is like.
Beyond your wildest possibilities that you can't

(02:20:25):
even imagine it what's actually out there?
Life is actually awesome and it's a privilege to be able to
live it. Things happen for us and for
you, not not to you. So you've got to be able to
change the mindset and stop thinking as though life is doing

(02:20:48):
all these things and beating youdown, because all we have to do
is. Literally.
Put it into a vision. And if that's your vision and
that's what you think about, then that means that's the path
you're walking towards. It's already in existence.
Whatever you want to do is already, as long as you've
thought it up, it already exists.

(02:21:09):
It's already done. You just have to walk long
enough towards it to to where you get a chance to see it.
And it's really important because once you envision that.
Every move. That you're making is is going
to be in the name of achieving that and if you can go out and

(02:21:29):
do all these drugs and live through especially now with like
fentanyl 7 O all these things that are wildly addictive if you
live through it now then. You have.
Every ability and skill you might need or can learn to go

(02:21:50):
out and like make some amazing things happen so you're a.
Firm believer that the skills are transferable as well.
Absolutely. I agree 100%.
Absolutely. You just need someone to point
you in the right direction or something.
Just you're like a Canon. You just need to be.
You just need to just yeah, likeI.
I sold drugs and I'm a hell of asalesman.
Yeah, exactly. It's like, it's just, yeah, it's

(02:22:10):
transferable skill. I didn't go to school.
Exactly. I can sell the fuck out of
whatever and you know that. Even if you have a shitty day
now, it's not even anything almost compared to what you had
before. So you're it's all good, no?
It's really not. Everything is cool.
Yeah. It doesn't have to be such a big
deal. And if you live like that, then
I mean, truly, everybody starts somewhere.

(02:22:32):
Don't. Don't let it.
I guess what I'm saying is don'tmake this your whole identity
for your whole life. I was.
I was using hardcore for probably six years, maybe I'm 33
now. I have longer clean time than I
did using time, and someday I'llbe 43 and 53 and that that time

(02:22:55):
I was using will be a blip. So you don't want.
To just let it be your entire identity.
I like that. That's how.
I operate, at least I like. That a lot.
I don't think we've heard anybody say that.
That's great. Did your story is.
Insane. How young you were, the things
you did, how young you still. Are, yeah.

(02:23:16):
Like a whole life ahead. Yeah, dude, thank you for
driving out here and and taking the time to share with us.
Absolutely. Thank you for having me on.
You guys are doing awesome, doing God's work.
I will continue keeping a close eye on it.
Thank you man. Thanks so much.
I don't know what. That is, look it.
Up. Yeah, look.
It up, Google. It's Siri.

(02:23:36):
It's legal. For now, buy it and you can buy
it in smoke shops. Wow.
And it's kratom but it's not. But it's like.
Upgraded kratom. It's the.
It's one. It's like the molecule in kratom
that they like. Fucking took the alkaloid and
put it in a tab or something. Yeah, every time I get on live

(02:23:57):
people are fucking asking me left and right about that shit.
Yep, people. Are losing their lives, but I
don't know. Anything.
I don't know anything about it, so like I've never.
It wasn't a thing back then, butpeople are getting, I mean, it's
like the new wave. It's like the same thing.
It's like, oh, it's like Oxys. It's like it's the same exact
thing, except you can go to a head shop and buy it.

(02:24:17):
Yeah, it's insane. It is.
Yeah, it's. Let's take a trip, boys.
Yeah, go to the head shop. Go to the local head shop.
Protest. Yeah, Hey, thank you.
So. Much, man.
You're the man. It was awesome, all right.

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How I Became an IV Drug User By 17 Years Old | Ep 83

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}How I Became an IV Drug User By 17 Years Old | Ep 83