How I Survived Over 20 Years Of IV Drug Use And 4 Prison Stays | Ep 76 - Get a Grip Podcast

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Me and my buddy got a bunch of xanax and a bunch of methadone
wafers and. There's a combo for you.
We we both split it right down the middle.
I don't remember how many it was, but we ate several Xanax
and a couple wafers. Jesus.
I wake up the next morning, go downstairs to wake up my buddy.
He's laying on the couch. I rolled him up.

(00:21):
I I shook him trying to wake himup and he's stiff.
I roll him over and he's dead. So that's that.
That was my first experience with that.
I was. 13 or. 14 years old. OK, we are back again with

(00:50):
another episode of Get a Grip podcast.
We have Brian Kraft with us today from Lancaster.
OH, is that correct? All right, I appreciate you
coming out, driving out here, excited to hear your story.
I know a tiny, tiny bit about it, like to keep it that way.
So it's all organic, but tell usa little bit about how you grew

(01:14):
up and what that looked like foryou as a kid.
So I grew up in Lancaster, came from a good home, wealthy
parents. Is Lancaster like S'more in the
sticks? When I grew up it was a lot
smaller. Getting a little bigger now, but
it's just South of Columbus, about 45 minutes.

(01:35):
It's small town vibes. I came from a real good family.
My I had a stay at home mom. My dad was a business owner,
really big in real estate. I grew up in a in the historical
district in the ice house and ground swimming pool.

(01:57):
Didn't want for him. I didn't want for anything.
I had no reason to take the pathI took other than hanging out
with the wrong people. And you and I are on the exact
same page there because I grew up in a nice neighborhood, had
everything I needed, and had no business.
Yeah, doing what the fuck I did.Yeah, exactly.

(02:17):
So I get it. I, I was in gymnastics when I
was real young. Traveled all over the United
States, really. Las Vegas, Yeah, Chicago, the
all the surrounding states. I was in the Junior Olympics
when I was 12. Wow.
After that I went into football,started playing football.

(02:40):
All my friends were playing football.
So I just wanted to kind of do that.
I played football until I was inabout eighth grade.
And then I started getting around some people that smoked
pot and we're drinking on the weekends and stuff and.
Classic. That that led me down the road.
Classic. That brought me to addiction,

(03:02):
obviously, right? So.
What is what's that look like when you, you, you're obviously
a fucking hell of an athlete If you were in the Junior Olympics
at one point, How do you find yourself with these people that
are smoking weed and drinking like what happens and around

(03:25):
what age? So I would say I was probably 13
or so. One of the kids that were on the
football team with me, I kind oflinked up with him because he
lived down the street from me. And come to find out, he was,
you know, stealing pot from his brother.
And we just were looking for a thrill, I guess.
Pinching his pinching his fucking bag, Yeah.

(03:47):
Yeah, we were just looking for something to do, young and dumb,
and we started smoking weed and it just escalated from there,
obviously. How to make you feel first time
he did it or the first time thatyou like really felt it like it
really you know that memorable first time.

(04:07):
It felt great. Felt like, you know, it just
felt good. It felt exciting, felt like I
was doing something I should have done, you know, I mean,
I've that kind of stuff. Always the.
Adrenaline. Yeah, exactly.
Oh yeah. Yeah, it just drew me to it.
I'll blame you. Yeah.
I don't fucking blame you one bit.

(04:28):
So you going to high school? Yep, I go into high school I was
hanging around a lot of older the older crowd.
My mom ended up getting cancer when I was let's see, I was in
6th grade when she got cancer and before it was all said and

(04:49):
done, it was probably in betweenmy 7th and 8th grade year.
So she was getting a lot of Oxycontins back then.
The real Oxys. Oh yeah.
So what year? What year was that?
Early 2000s. Ninety 9.
She was getting holy shit. She was getting oxy 40s yeah, so

(05:09):
and she never took them. So we had a big gun safe in her
house and just she. Just loaded, yeah.
With bottles and bottles and bottles of oxys.
Yeah, Holy shit. So my sister is a little bit
older than me, so her friends were already doing pills and
stuff and found out and I was hanging around them and that

(05:31):
that's what when I started doingopiates I I was getting into
all. Her How old are you?
How old are you? 13.
You're still 13. First time you picked up an
opiate. Yeah.
Yeah. Damn, that's early.
Or I was stealing their Vicodin or whatever, you know, and that
felt amazing. That's yeah.

(05:52):
I mean, I know for me it was like when I did the first time,
I was like, well, this is it. Nothing else matters.
Yeah, I don't want anything else.
Exactly. You just feel like you're on a
cloud. Everything feels good, nothing
can go wrong. Yeah.
It's like God, like it's unbelievable with the feeling.
Yeah. My my mom and dad ended up
getting a divorce and I think that really kicked things off

(06:13):
because I was young. I didn't know.
I didn't know half the stuff I know now, you know.
I mean, I thought, of course I didn't know why.
You don't know why? Why?
It was happening why my dad leftand I guess I took on some of
that blame. I thought it was something to do
with me really. Or you know, because he he just
came in one day and packed the stuff with the police and left.

(06:36):
I didn't know it was coming or anything.
Like if you had done something different, you could have
stopped it. Type deal.
Place blame on yourself, yeah? Yeah.
Another thing that was around back then that was real big was
I don't know if you remember themethadone wafers.
I do. It was actually the first opiate
I ever took was a methadone wafer and I got DI mean I was

(06:58):
blasted. Yeah, I think it took half of 1.
For like 2 days? Yeah.
Just take one in the next two days or high.
I went to our district basketball tournament that day,
Yeah. And was fucking destroyed for
the entire day. Yeah, and the next day of the
morning. Yeah, yeah, they were.

(07:20):
They were definitely strong. Yeah.
So let me see here. When I was in 9th grade, I went
back to playing football. My mom and dad are divorced and
I had a rough relationship with my dad 'cause I blamed him as
well as I blame myself for leaving my mom.
So I was kind of rebelling at the same time.

(07:42):
Were you? Did you stay with mom?
Yeah. I stayed with my mom.
I guess I was, that was like my rebellious stage, you know, I, I
played football, but I was stillpartying all the time, you know,
and my dad's gone. So I can have people over at the
house now and partying all the time.
Shortly after football season, my 9th grade, Let me see here

(08:05):
from no, I'm sorry, let me correct that.
In between my 9th and 10th gradeyear, OK, I had a lot of people
basically just living at my house with me.
My mom had went on vacation and some of the people that were
staying with me were older. Is she in remission at this

(08:26):
point? Yep.
She's in remission at this point.
Good. She went on vacation to see her
friends in South Carolina and she left the older kids in
charge at the house and we're just partying, you know, didn't
think anything of it. We eating pills.
We ate a bunch of me and my buddy got a bunch of Xanax and a

(08:46):
bunch of methadone wafers and. There's a combo for you.
We we both split it right down the middle.
I don't remember how many it was, but we ate several Xanax
and a couple wafers. Jesus.
I wake up the next morning, go downstairs to wake up my buddy.
He's laying on the couch. I rolled him up.

(09:08):
I I shook him trying to wake himup and he's stiff.
I roll him over and he's dead. So that's that.
That was my first experience with that.
I was 1314 years old. God.
Dude, obviously before that I didn't realize that.
I didn't think anything was evendangerous, you know what I mean?

(09:29):
I thought we were just having fun.
But yeah, that that was my firsteye opener.
I can't, I can't fathom at that age, like Bruno and I grew up
together and I I just can't imagine rolling my best like
friend over and he's fucking gone.
Yeah, that's a 13 year old. And of course, my mom's out of

(09:54):
town, so who do I call? No adults.
Yeah, I call my. Dad and me and my dad, like I
said, we're kind of in a rough relationship at the time, so
that didn't go over well. Assuming it didn't, I can
imagine. And everybody at school blamed

(10:16):
me. So I'm getting ready to start
back into my sophomore year, andI felt ostracized, ostracized or
whatever. I felt everybody blamed me.
You know, the reason he died wasit was my fault and.
In what world is it your fault? How does that work?
We didn't know anything. I mean, you guys just split.

(10:37):
You guys just split the drugs. Like to be fair, it very easily
could have been you. Yeah, I think about that all the
time. Could have been me very easily.
Things really spiral from there.You know, the friends that I did
have weren't good friends. Obviously all the people that

(10:57):
were, you know, on the football team that I was hanging out with
that, you know, took the successful path in life, kind of
pushed me away at that point. So the only people that were
left were, you know, other people doing drugs and stuff
like that. So that really kicked off my
high school life and at that point.

(11:20):
That's so horrible. Yeah.
That's so sorry. I just like you just lost your
best fucking friend. Yeah, like one of your best
friends and like you're being ostracized for it and blamed for
it. That is crazy.
Yeah, that is crazy. God, small school.
Yeah, not real big. No.

(11:40):
God damn. Yeah.
I spiraled into depression, you know, and then anything.
I would take anything I can findat that point.
You know, I was eating a lot of ecstasy at the time and pills,
any pills I could find. Up until I was about 15, one of

(12:03):
the older kids I hung out with was working at Lone Star
Steakhouse. I don't know if they even have a
Lone Star Steakhouse around anymore.
I'm familiar with the name. But and he one of the guys that
did dishes there was a heroin addict and could get back then
it was powder heroin, Yeah. And I wanted to try it, you know

(12:26):
what I mean? So we bought some a couple.
Packs at 15. Jesus, dude.
Bought a couple packs of powder,just snorted it at the time, you
know what I mean? Didn't it wasn't?
I mean, I didn't feel like it was much different than the Oxys
and I had a pretty good hook up on like 80s.

(12:46):
What? What were you paying for 80s
back then? Back then, $30 a piece.
That's I was paying 40 to 45, sothat's fucking.
Yeah, the $30 was real cheap. Yeah, that's cheap.
And about every cert I had had agreen stain on it.
You know what I mean from takingthe coating.
Off the coating. Yeah, I had a friend that was a

(13:13):
diabetic and and I really didn'tknow what I was doing, but I
started, I just looked on the Internet, you know, I don't know
if you're familiar with era wet,wet or whatever it is.
Yeah. So I looked on there to how to
cook up the Oxys and just kind of tested, tested around,
started shooting the Oxys and then eventually it went back to

(13:36):
getting that powder heroin and shooting that and.
So let me ask you, because I remember I tried to shoot up by
myself once without any help andI couldn't fucking figure it
out. Did you figure it out?
Like, were you able to fucking hit a vein?
And like do it with because the first time you got one hand,

(14:00):
you're like, you know what I mean?
And you're trying to hold the belt and you're trying to pull
back to see if you're in the vein.
So the first time I think me andmy buddy did it together.
OK, yeah, but eventually I. You know I.
Figured it out. I don't know that I was real
good at it. I missed more than I probably
got, you know what I mean? So young, Yeah.

(14:24):
Wow, we started shooting a powder heroin for a while and
then. How's school looking at this
point? Terrible.
I in my 10th grade year I got expelled.
Oh, you did? Yes, for.
For I mean, things were all crazy and I wasn't sleeping

(14:46):
good. I was back in the house where I
found my friend dead. Now it's kind of rough.
I wasn't sleeping. I was sleeping terrible and I
woke up I was shooting heroin atthe time.
So I woke up there, shot at the,threw some pants on, went to
school, didn't check the pocketsor anything.

(15:09):
You know, I just was in a hurry to get to school.
I was sitting in my first periodclass nod and off.
And I just remember waking up and there's the principal and
the sheriff and they took me down to the office and thought
they were going to find dope on me.
So they searched me and I had a pocket knife.

(15:31):
So they kicked me out for the pocket knife and I got expelled.
Let's see here. I was probably 15 at the time.
So was it the nodding that that got them to?
Yeah, the teacher called down for him because I couldn't stay
awake. And yeah, so I ended up going to

(15:56):
the alternative school in Lycaster, which was just a
little school for juvenile delinquents.
It was like the the seniors in there were literally like a
ninth grade level education. Really.
Yeah, it's terrible. And I mean, I don't think, I

(16:16):
don't see how it would help, youknow, putting up a bunch of
troubled team teams together. But that's what they did back
then. And it's what they had, I guess.
Work with what you got. Yeah, that's what you got.
I. I started school there and I was
16 because it took a while, you know, I, I was expelled and then

(16:37):
I had to go through all the court stuff and over the time I,
I had turned 16 and. Was driving, did you get
charged? Did they charge you with OK?
Just expel me for the pocket knife I suppose.
Only been expelled for one year,which I ended up getting to go
back my junior but let me back try.
So I was at the alternative school.

(17:01):
I was 16 at the time. I was shooting tar at this time
also. I ended up, I was 15 years old
when I first did tar. Back then you had to call the
Mexicans on a pager. You know, we'd go to the
Speedway in Canal Winchester, call the pager and then sit by
the payphone and wait for them to call the payphone back and

(17:23):
tell us where to go. So this was a long time.
Ago, that shit was probably yeahfucking that was probably good
heroin. It was like, really good heroin.
Yeah, like. Real 1 bag would last you all
day. Yeah, damn.
So I did a shot and missed it and I had an infection I was in

(17:46):
the hospital for. Abscess.
Yeah, they had to put a drain tube in my arm and sew it up and
stuff like that, so they knew what was going on.
I told him I was from a spider bite, you know what I mean?
But they knew what was going on.Not a bad, not a not a bad

(18:06):
excuse. The reason I said that was one
of my friends actually got bit that summer by a a brown recluse
spider and had an Abscess. That chicken brown recluse can
kill you, can't they? I don't know if they can kill
you, but they'll do some damage.They like, eat your flesh.
Yeah, I knew there was somethingabout them, like they're super
dangerous. So that's where I got the idea

(18:26):
of it, but it was in the crease.Of my That's a great idea.
And I think it's a great I mean,it's shit.
I can't think of anything better.
So I'm going to the alternative school and I have this, you
know, big incision on my arm. They they have a pretty good
idea what's going on. They just couldn't catch me.
And I was on Vicodin and back then they didn't break the test,

(18:49):
didn't break down into, you know, fentanyl and Percocet and
stuff like that. It was just opiates.
So I was failing my drug test, but I was on Vicodins for my
surgery. So I was using that as an excuse
of why I'm failing. Meanwhile, I'm shooting heroin
the whole time. And one day I was in class and I
was nodding out and all messed up and they they grabbed me up

(19:16):
and cuffed me up and took me to the office and went and searched
my vehicle. They cuffed you.
Yeah, well, I was at the alternative school.
This time so so it's a little more.
Little There's probation officers and everything there.
Damn. Yeah, and they searched my
vehicle and found some needles in there.
So then they interrogated me fora while and tried to get me to

(19:40):
tell. And you know, I'm 16 years old.
I'm not telling on well. What are you telling all about?
Yeah, like. Well, they wanted to know where
I was getting at. I'm not telling on these
Mexicans. I was just about to.
Say yeah, you want me dead? Yeah, because I will end up
dead. Exactly.
So I went to juvenile detention center, cleaned up.

(20:00):
I was in there for a little overa month and got clean.
I probably felt good. It did feel good, felt great.
I got out, finished the school year, everything was doing good
and really did went back to Langster High School my junior
year, got in with some of my oldfriends that were doing well and

(20:27):
I did great until I graduated. I ended up graduating.
I don't want to say I didn't usethe whole time, you know, I'd.
Here and there. I'd go on vacation, you know,
I'd tell, tell the PS and stuff I was going on a week's
vacation. I wouldn't even leave my house.
I'd just use it. Get high, get high and get

(20:49):
cleaned up before I took a. Took a drug test.
It's kind of a vacation. But I wasn't using like a what
happened before? Let's see here.
And then I graduated high school.
I'm, I was real big into huntingwhen I was younger.
I didn't mention that me and my dad haunted a lot.

(21:09):
That was really the only connection me and my dad had,
you know? Bonded.
Yeah, he worked all the time when I was younger.
I barely saw money when we livedtogether.
What'd you say he did? He We own a bit a business down
in Lancaster. It's a grocery store and a
slaughterhouse. OK.
And then he also owned a restaurant and then a bunch of

(21:33):
apartments. So he was busy all the time.
He would get up at 6:30 and and then come home at 9:30 at night.
We'd eat dinner and go to bed. I'd see him for about 1/2 hour a
day. So my senior year, my dad bought
me a bear hunting trip for my senior present and we went and

(21:57):
hunting bears in Maine and then I came back and finished my
school year. But when I was up there hunting,
they offered me a job after I graduated.
So the whole time I was growing up, I wanted to go to the
military real bad. That was what I planned on doing

(22:18):
after high school, but I had theopportunity to do this, so I put
that off. Plus I was on probation still
just handling dogs. We ran bears with dogs, and then
I had to like take hunters out and put them on stands, fill
bait stations up, stuff like that.
OK, so it was just supposed to be for the one season, so it's

(22:41):
like August to November or something like that.
So I went up there was the healthiest I'd ever been.
I was away from everybody, you know, I mean, the closest town
was 80 miles away. We were out in the middle of
nowhere. So you're safe, safe the the
drugs. No drugs, no drinking, no

(23:03):
nothing. Went to church every Sunday.
It was like real, real good life, really.
And the week before I was supposed to come back home, I
got a phone call and one of my childhood friends had overdosed
on heroin and died, and his funeral was coming up, so I

(23:25):
didn't want to miss it. So I left a couple days early,
then I was supposed to, drove straight through from Maine to
Ohio, didn't stop anywhere. And then I went to that funeral
and ran into the wrong crowd again, started shooting up

(23:47):
again. Everything that I felt like I
gained, I lost in a matter of a week.
Those funerals are interesting in the sense of the people that
are still using, like they're all together.
You know what I mean? They all hang out together.
They're getting fucked up in theparking lot.
And I'm sure that's how, I mean,that's how it has been for me.

(24:12):
Fortunately for me, I've been sober.
But I can see where you could get sucked back in really
easily, especially in a moment like that, because it's hurts.
It fucking hurts. You already have just lost a
friend. And I mean the I had no coping
mechanisms back then other than drugs.

(24:35):
The only way, you know, the way I see it, you know, I was the at
the age I was supposed to be developing those things.
I wasn't. I was using dope to mask
everything. So where normal people would
develop those coping skills and everything else, I didn't have a
clue how to do it and never did.You know, until I got clean I

(24:58):
never really knew how to cope with anything other than using a
substance to mask my feelings. Shove it down deeper.
Just fucking shove it down. So where are we at now?
You were bear hunting, everything was good, you were
clean, that your friend passed away, you came back and you fell

(25:21):
back in with the wrong crowd. Well, so I I did get high that
day, but I was trying to stay clean enough to where I could go
to the military. Still, the courts promised me
that when I got back, I show up for one hearing, clean drug
screens, they would release me so I could go to the military.

(25:44):
I was ready to go. And OK, so you still are trying
to do that? I am I pissed clean for him.
Everything went to court and they flopped me again for
another couple months and I feltlike, you know, I did my part.
Yeah, why? What they say, they say why, or

(26:05):
they just. They just wanted me, wanted a
little more time I guess. OK.
So I just. How much more time do they want?
I think. It was three months.
Three more months, so not the end of the world, but, but when
you're playing the game that you're playing, three months is
a long fucking time to fuck it up.
I felt like, you know, I did my part and you're not doing your

(26:28):
part. And so and I was, you know, 1819
years old. Three months seems a lot longer
when you're that age too. So I just.
Yeah, it does. You're right about that.
I just peaced out on a ran last time and started doing what I
want to do. You know, it's didn't report and
just got started getting high and I ran until the until I

(26:52):
turned 21. Where did you?
Where'd you go? What'd you do?
Like what? To be honest with you, I didn't
even leave my mom's house, you know, I just didn't report, had
a warrant. Every time they try to catch me,
I'd run and get away from. Really.
I even had a job at the time, and it was kind of funny because

(27:13):
the judge, my judge shops at ourgrocery store and that's where I
was working. And every time he'd come in, I'd
go into the meat cooler and hidefrom him until he left.
I bet. Yeah, fuck.
Yeah, I would too. And one time they sent the
probation office officers there and they, they didn't know we

(27:36):
had a door, a back door. So they had all the front doors
covered, but they were still a back door.
And I told him I had to go put my apron up.
And I hit that back door and gotaway from, yeah, I ended up
running until I was 21. It's a good juvenile.
Juvenile probation. They have to release you at 21.

(27:58):
Oh really? I didn't know that.
But so I made it till I was 21 but I went to a bar the the week
of my birthday like every 21. You should.
I was drinking as much as I could.

(28:20):
Obviously, you know, I was 21. And then I was driving home and
it was only a couple blocks and I hit a parked car, totaled the
vehicle. So I got picked up.
Oh, you totaled the car? Oh yeah, their car.
Your car. The car I was driving and the.

(28:40):
Both cars. Oh my God.
It was, I don't know how fast I was going, but I don't really
remember it, you know what I mean?
I was pretty drunk. Drunk.
Fast enough? Damn.
Yeah, so I got picked up for Novia, so I did get off juvenile

(29:01):
probation 'cause I was 21, but now I'm on adult.
Probation. So.
But it's a misdemeanor. So it's a misdemeanor?
I mean, DUI don't come off your record, but yeah, I think a lot
of people get DUI. I ended up, you know, I'm not
showing up for court. You know, I'm getting out
partying. I I always had a hard time

(29:24):
showing up for court anyway. I didn't want to do that stuff.
I I made my own rules back then.I thought, you know, so I ended
up landing me in drug court eventually.
I did drug court. Did you?
Yeah, I did in Franklin. In Franklin County, yeah.
So I was on the misdemeanor drugcourt for a couple.

(29:47):
Was it here? No, it was in Fairfax.
OK, OK. I think it was like an 18 month
program or something. Yeah, that's not only what they
are. I made it all the way through,
was clean that whole time and asback to the same so as soon as I
got off probation I was getting high.
Damn, it was just like a cycle. Are we?
Talking like same day or next day.

(30:09):
Oh, like I had. Ready to go?
Ready to go when I graduated like I bought the I'm going to
graduation today. I'm signing my papers and then.
Celebrate. Yeah, celebrate so.
Best way we know how. Yeah, so you know as well as I
do, it takes that one time and you're right back into the
trenches doing the same thing you've been doing from there.

(30:35):
I just, you know, I had, I was off probation.
I was good, you know, as far as I thought.
Right. No.
I got married while I was in drug court, actually while I was
clean. I had my first, my daughter,
who's now 14. Was that, was that a good

(30:58):
relationship when you were cleanin drug court?
No, No. No, that was never a good
relationship. But I was young.
Yeah, we were young. It happens.
Yeah. Trying to think how long it was,
how long I made it off drug court.
I don't think it was that long before I I was getting high

(31:22):
again. Obviously shooting the opening
Xanax. I was always my go to.
It's. A good combo.
Yeah, and my wife at the time was doing it with me.
Now, after I got off from court,we started getting high
together. Shit.
And I was out picking dope up for us at AI was meeting the guy

(31:45):
at a gas station with a little pizza shop on the side of it.
I met him. I just shot a dope in his car,
pulled back up to the gas station and I was let you know,
I mean, I was there was no way Iwas going to drive.
So I thought the safest thing would be going to pizza shop and
get something to eat and try sober up before I drove home.

(32:08):
I didn't want to hurt nobody or nothing driving like that.
So that's what I did. And I had AI had some blue
footballs in my 5th pocket of myjeans.
That coin pocket. And a couple bags of dough and I
was not enough waiting on my food and they called the police.

(32:28):
What the fuck? So I I'm you know, I'm in the
middle of a nod and wake up and there's two Lancer Police
Department and they told me, youknow, they knew exactly who I
was told me to stand up you. Got a rap now?
They were going to search me andso they start patting me down.

(32:50):
They felt my pocket and felt some in there and when the cop
stuck his finger in there to scoop the dope out, I hit him
and. You hit the cop.
And. Where'd you hit him?
In his head, in the face and knocked him down and it broke
his hand where his finger was inmy pocket.

(33:12):
So it broke his hand down in here.
And then the other cop proceededto beat the hell out of me.
You know what I mean? It it looked like one of those
Old West scenes in the movies where the tables and chairs are
all flipped over. It's pretty crazy.
God. So eventually they got me in the
cop car, took me to jail, charged me with charge or I had

(33:36):
a needle in my pocket too. And obviously they they found
the Xanax, didn't find the heroin.
I ended up. Taking that to jail.
But I had a rig or a needle withme and I stuffed it in the back
of the cop car in the seat. So I get to jail.

(33:58):
They charged me with two felony 4 assault on police officer and
an F3 tampering with evidence for shoving the needle on the
seat. And at that time, they would do
future indictments, which I, I haven't seen him do that in a
long time. But back then, you know you'd be

(34:18):
in jail for a couple days and then just let you out.
Yeah, all, all my felonies were futures.
I had four and they were all ended up being future
indictments. So I thought, you know, Oh well,
I'm out of jail. I didn't even bond out.
I'm, I'm fine, like I'm good. I didn't, I was naive.
I didn't know I was going to come back.
You know what I mean? And I can't even remember how it

(34:41):
came back, to be honest with you, but it did.
I ended up going to prison. Was it?
Did you violate your misdemeanorprobation for your DUI?
You did. No, I was off of that.
You got off the drug. Court.
Yeah, that's right. That's right.
So I was completely free of the courts except for these new
charges. But while the future, well, it

(35:03):
was on future, I didn't have to report to anybody already.
No. And like I said, I can't
remember how it happened but andended up coming back and I got
arrested and went to jail. Where'd they grab you at?
Where they pick you up at you. That's why I can't remember.

(35:24):
For some reason, there's been somany times I.
Yeah, no, I trust me. I get it.
I totally get it. And so off to prison you go.
First time walk us through that,the feelings, the emotions, like
let's put you back on that bus right now and talk to us about
how you're feeling as you're pulling up to your parent

(35:47):
institution, not even CRUCRC or Lorraine CRCCRC, OK?
So I'll take it back to the county actually.
OK. Perfect.
At the time, one of our one of my really good friends, he was a
high school football star. Everything ended up getting

(36:08):
hooked on heroin and going down that path.
Ended up getting busted and we just happen to be in jail
together. So we are fighting our case at
the same time. Both got sentenced to prison on
our first number at the same time.
My first prison number is 612815and his is 612814 really.

(36:30):
So it wasn't that bad riding from county to CRC because you
know, I had my buddy that I grewup with, you know, we were in
our, we were in our unit in the same cell.
Damn. And we Even so at this time B3

(36:51):
and B4 weren't a sex offender charge or sex offender dorms
back then, they're regular dorms.
And I went to B3, me and him were in B3 together so like we
made it and we both got classed as CI together.
So we went all the way through everything.
Together. So that was.
That helps. Yeah, it helps.

(37:12):
It does. It was obviously a little nerve
wracking. You know, I mean when you're in
the van pulling up to CRC and you see all the Constantina wire
and pulling the Sally port and then you go into, you know, R&D
and they're screaming at you andtelling you to strip.
Strip. Down.
Yeah, that's, I mean, it's intimidating.

(37:34):
You don't know what what you're walking into.
It's scary as fuck. You know, you hear all the
stories and stuff like that and people make it seem bad, but.
Yeah. I mean, it just depends.
I feel like it just depends on how you handle yourself and
carry yourself. That's what it comes down to.
But I think that more people would be willing to admit that

(37:56):
they were scared to fucking death pulling up to prison, than
than not. You know, as a man, you don't
want to admit that shit. As a man, I'm not scared.
But no, I mean it's not fun. It's a scary situation.
Yeah, it fucking is. When I found out I was going to
SCI, which is Lancaster Prison, I was relieved.

(38:20):
I knew all kinds. Of people.
Yeah, everybody from home was there, so that was a blessing in
disguise. Yeah, I mean it.
My time went fairly easy. That means.
How long did you do? I judicialed I was supposed to
get a 30 day judicial but it never. 30 day.

(38:42):
Because it was just an F4I pled down to the F4 and they ran a
concurrent. OK.
Or no, they ran a consecutive executive, but it was, it was
under three years. So I, I didn't have to do a six
month judicial, I believe is howthat works.
I can't remember exactly how it works, but I filed for my

(39:05):
judicial 30 days. Then it started till you get to
your parents institution up. So of course I was in CRC for a
couple months and then I went toLancaster and I filed a 30 days
and then it took forever to answer.
So I think in total I might havebeen gone for eight or nine
months maybe. Any wow 30 days to 8 or 9 months

(39:28):
is that's a big gap. Yeah, it sounded good.
Like, my attorney's like, oh, you'll be out in, you know, 30
days. Yeah, that does sound good.
That's not bad. Let's do it.
Yeah, run. It never works like that.
With those kind of charges, yeah, You fucking punched a cop
in the face. Yeah, of course you'd take that.
Are there any like, memorable moments from prison that you

(39:51):
remember that stick out to you or any like, crazy shit you saw
or were a part of in those eightor nine months?
Or do you keep to yourself or? My first number, I mean I was
getting high the whole time. Suboxone.
Dope. No, there wasn't Suboxone back
then. Oh, really?

(40:11):
Yeah, so there was. I don't know if you were
familiar with the Dayton Dope back then.
Like Dayton Dope? Yeah, No.
It was before fentanyl around, but it was like fentanyl.
I don't know if it was. It was powder.
You know, Columbus was all tar. Yeah.
And then Dayton dope would be powder and they shut DCI down at

(40:33):
the time. So they were riding a bunch of
dating people in and I got hooked up with somebody in there
that had dope that was from Dayton that sold dope in there
and I shooting dope. How How are you shooting dope in
prison? Where?
Where? Did you get the where'd you get
the needle? How do you How do you do it?
I knew somebody that worked in in the Infirmary and they just

(40:57):
stole a needle. It seems like it'd be really
hard to get your hands on. Yeah, that was expensive.
Oh yeah? Oh yeah, I bet it was.
Do you remember what you paid for it?
Not right off the top of my head.
Ballpark. Probably about 20 bucks or
something like that. Yeah, yeah, sounds about right.
And you know, you just go in thebathroom and it's worth it.

(41:20):
Put the walls up around the stall and shoot up.
Do your thing. Yeah, and I mean, that's
basically my whole prison experience was just getting high
and smoking cigarettes and. Fucking.
Fucking off. Yeah, it wasn't real bad.
I didn't. I got in a few fights and stuff,

(41:41):
my first prison number, but it wasn't nothing.
Crazy. Crazy.
Yeah, uh, let's see. I got out on my judicial and I
was supposed to go to a treatment center, OK.
And I did everything I was supposed to do.

(42:03):
I had an ankle monitor on in between, in between going to or
getting out and going to that. Yep.
Waiting on a bed. Yep.
So I did everything I was supposed to, went down there.
It was in Nelsonville, Ohio. I can't remember the name of it
and and intake ready to do whatever.

(42:24):
My wife dropped me off and said our goodbyes and I'm sitting
there and they're booking me in and asked me if I had my TB test
and I was like no I didn't. Nobody told me to get ATB test
And I said well we can't take you and like you can't take me.

(42:45):
Like what am I supposed to tell my PO?
And they're like, well, you justhave to tell him that we could.
I was like, you guys can tell that.
And they called him, told him what was going on.
And he said just go home and come in tomorrow and get your
ankle water back on. OK?
I bet I do. You know what I mean?

(43:06):
Yeah. So take that.
And I call my wife, she came pick me up, woke up the next day
and that just didn't sound like a good idea.
You know, I just, I didn't feel like it, I guess.
So back to getting high and running from the cops.
I went, you know. So you just didn't go get it on
though, so yeah. I was kind of numb for that.

(43:31):
Yeah, clearly I'm I'm catching up on the pattern here.
So I ran for as long as I could.I ended up getting caught.
I can't even remember how I got caught on that one.
Either or No, I actually can't. OK, so I started selling dope.

(43:54):
I was going up to Columbus and that I was picking up, you know,
maybe 1/2 ounce to 3/4 an ounce a dope at a time.
Umm tar. Yep.
Umm. I had pissed somebody off that
day and wouldn't let him come upwith me.
They wanted to come up with me and get my prices and I was just

(44:15):
kinda like, you know, why would I do?
That not how this works. Not how?
This works. I'll help you out when I get
back, but you're going to pay my.
Prices. Yeah, exactly.
You know what I mean. Exactly.
And she didn't like that. And she was the only person that
because I would always change the ways I went coming back, I
wouldn't, you know, go one way for a couple days and I'd find

(44:38):
another route back for a couple days.
And the only person other than my driver that day that knew the
way I was coming back was her. I don't know for sure that she
told on me, but I got pulled over coming home and they want
to know where the dope was. You know what I mean?
So that's. Kind of.
Oh my God. That's kind of, I mean, who

(45:00):
else? Dude, your luck is so bad.
Yeah, I mean, from 13 to, I mean, this is insanely bad run
of luck. I mean, I know you're doing
drugs and shit, but like, geez, yeah.
Yeah, it was. So did they find the dope?
No, they didn't. They didn't.

(45:23):
I took it to jail. So they arrested you?
Yes. They and you fucking put it up.
Up in the old fucking pocket. Yep.
Yeah, like 1/2. Oz that was rough.
Yeah, that was 1/2. Oz that's a yeah, Yeah, that's
but it was fucking rough. But I didn't want to.

(45:44):
Yeah, no, I'm trust me, no judgement here 'cause I've been
there. So.
They thought I had escaped because I was still on outcount
for my judicial. So they freaked out when they
ran my name. They they pulled us over.
They came up to the car and acted like they were just
stopping us, you know what I mean?

(46:05):
And then I went back, ran my name and then when they came
back up, they had their guns drawn and was freaking out and
they're like thought I'd escape from prison.
I was like, I didn't escape. I'm on, I have a warrant, but
I'm on judicial released, you know what I mean?
Then they started asking where the dope was.
Of course they didn't find it. So they they just took me in

(46:30):
jail on my warrant. I got sent to county.
Are you like shitting bricks with it?
I mean, I I know squat and coughis coming.
Did they? They didn't have the machines.
Back no, they did not have the machines.
So that helps. Yeah.
So no, I wouldn't worry about. That like X-ray machines.

(46:52):
Nothing. Yeah.
So I went to jail and then partied for a while, you know
what I mean? It lasted a week or so and I, I
remember specifically that that time in jail, it was just like
non-stop dub was coming in. So like I ran out.

(47:15):
I didn't get sick for like a month.
Jeez. Dub just kept coming in and
coming in and it was like it wasnever running out.
Wow. And at this time, like, I guess
so you could say I was kind of abully in jail.
Like I had a big name, you know what I mean?
And, well, you come in with thatand yeah.
And if other people came in, they're either going to share it

(47:37):
or I'm going to take it, you know what I mean?
So it's kind of I was in that kind of group in jail, you know
what I mean? You need it so.
And ended up finally getting sick and getting through all
that. I was at that time Fairfield
County had like 3 different jails and I was in like the

(47:59):
worst one. It was old school jail, still
had bars and stuff like that. Hot in the summertime.
I said. I just remember being in there
all summer and it was terrible hot.
My attorney kept continuing my case out, continuing my case out
and it was like 6 months before I even went to court.

(48:21):
God damn. And I mean, six months in jail
is bad enough, but six months inthat jail was terrible.
And they had another jail that they was, they would have
considered like a minimum security jail that was more laid
back and had a day room and microwaves and you know all that
ATV. But you guys didn't have TV's

(48:44):
We. Did, but you had to watch it
through the bars, through the. Bars.
That's how our downtown jail is here.
So it kind of, it sucks, sucked.It was easier just to play
spades or poker all day. Yeah, finally I, it was about
the six month mark. I called my name for a ride out.
I was so thankful. So I finally went to that easier

(49:07):
jail. They they didn't want to let me
out there because of my charges at first, right?
But you know, I was up there forsix months and didn't cause too
much problems. I mean, I think I was in a hole
like maybe one time in six months.
So that's not real. Bad.
I ended up getting sent back outthere and I got like a trustee

(49:36):
job or whatever. So now my time is like awesome.
Super sweet, sweet super. Sweet.
I knocked one of the Cos out there too.
Like he thought we were friends,I guess.
Yeah. I mean, I ended up being friends
with him after I got out of jail, but obviously when I'm in
jail, I'm just trying to get. Wait, you did what to him?

(50:01):
Like knocked him or got him likeon the.
Team. Oh, I got you.
OK, OK. And I had him.
He got high. He's actually not just ACO, he's
a sheriff. And the deal would be he would
bring Xanax and then I would have my people put Suboxone in a

(50:23):
shampoo bottle once a week and drop off shampoo and he would go
out and get it and act like he searched it.
So wow, yeah, I was. How?
How do you, how do you determinewhich guard is the right one to
try and make that kind of play on?

(50:45):
Because you get the wrong guy. You know what I mean?
Like, how do you, how do you pick one out?
Like what? How do you?
What are the signs? The ones that want to be your
friend are the easy. Ones and you can.
You can feel it and you can telllike they want your.
They're looking for your approval.
Yeah, your approval. Then you just start off small,

(51:07):
like, hey, can I get a pinch of that too?
Yeah. Or hey, drop your can of chew in
the trash can when you leave tonight, you know, and it at
first it comes off like a joke, but then eventually you get him
to drop the can in the trash can.
And then once he does that, you got him.
Yeah, you know, 'cause he's fucked.
You've already crossed the line.Yeah, you're fucked.
Yeah, buddy, you're mine now. Yeah, and I.

(51:29):
Mean seriously? Yeah, 'cause you fucking getting
fired. Yeah, so it all started when I
was at the top of the top of theHill jail, the first jail I got
him to do that at the top of theHill jail.
So then he got moved out to thatjail and then when I got out
there, I saw him. So I already had him once I got
there and it just progressed into, you know, getting high

(51:55):
with him and stuff. We go into the medical room and
snort fucking Xanax off the glass table in there and I'd
give him a piece of Suboxone. And then everybody knew what was
going on. We'd be sitting up at the desk
watching videos on the computer with him and we we'd all be
nodding out, me and the cop, youknow what I mean?

(52:16):
And another. The cops nodding out.
I mean, it was, it was pretty. Everybody knew, you know what I
mean? He ended up getting fired.
Yeah, you don't say. Actually, so once he got out of
or once I got out of jail, he gave me his number or let me

(52:37):
backtrack so I don't go off topic.
So I waited for forever. I was trying to push it out this
time. I kept telling my attorney to
put in I'm I'm living it up. You know what I mean?
Not only am I getting drugs in there, I'm my mom's bringing me
food and stuff on the weekend like French bread, pizzas and

(53:00):
lunch meat from our grocery store that we own.
Like I had whatever I wanted. Like I was eating good, working
out, doing whatever I want to do.
You know, it's, it didn't even feel like I was in jail.
Got the drugs, yeah. The easiest, best time I've ever
done so I I bet I couldn't continue it anymore.

(53:23):
They sent me to a place in Wintersville, Ohio.
I don't know if you know where that is.
That's I'll pass Belmont, Steubenville area.
I think it was called EOCC. It's like a lockdown rehab.
So I was there for let's see here probably 60 days maybe a

(53:48):
guy in there was on getting green Xanning boards on on pill
call. And what?
Yeah, and cheeking them and I was buying.
They were giving you your Xanax.Not me, another guy.
Oh. But they I bought every single
one of them, but they were stillgiving Xanax out to yes, what?
I barely remember the whole stay, you know, You know I was.

(54:11):
Just barred out. Twisted the whole term, yeah,
and ended up getting kicked out because a kid got a whole bunch
of bars out of visit and I bought like 10 of them.
And you know, with Xanax, you take one, you're taking all ten

(54:33):
of them. Usually you just start eating.
Them you don't stop. Yeah, and I'm lost like 3 days.
And I guess all kinds of stuff happened within those three
days. So they kicked me out, you know,
and they rode me out back to county.
I went to the top of the hill and they sent me straight back
out to the other jail like the next day and I was back.

(54:56):
In the one you were at before, that was sweet.
Yeah, sent me right back there back into the trustee spot and
it was better than the rehab really, you know what I mean.
So I was fine with it. And I only had like 3 months ago
or something and I was the rest of my time.
I finished up my time. I'm served.

(55:17):
Yep. But mind you, I'm getting high
the whole time I'm in there so. Yeah, you're still.
Yeah, and you're still? Fucked.
Yeah, so I'm getting high as soon as I get out.
Yeah, you have to, yeah. Back then was bath salt.
I don't know if you remember bath salt.

(55:37):
Yeah, I remember bath salts. So I was doing bath salts and a
little bit of ice here and there.
It wasn't real big back then. It No, it wasn't.
Yeah, I feel like more recently it started to pop back up.
Yeah, yeah. Because yeah, meth was not it

(55:59):
for, I don't know, like when I started really doing drugs like
hard drugs, crack cocaine, shooting heroin, shooting
cocaine, all that meth wasn't ituntil like the nearly the end,
which was like for me, 2014, 1516, yeah, that's when it
started to make a comeback. And even now, it's made more of

(56:20):
a comeback like meth's popular. Yeah, it's big now.
It's cheap. Yeah, it's so.
Cheap, that's true. Easily accessible.
So I was doing bath salt and everything like that and but I
was trying to get my ACT to go at the same time.
I was on Suboxone, so I wasn't doing heroin at the time.

(56:43):
I was just doing speed, which I thought was, you know, a step
above what I was doing. I ended up getting a job with a
buddy, one of my best friends from high school, and I got with
a some girl. I was with her.

(57:06):
I was buying Xanax off of her. And we hooked up and we were
together well a week and she gotpregnant with my son.
So, you know, I thought at the time I'm gonna have to make this
work. So I tried trying to get cleaned
up. So the plan was to keep keep it.

(57:28):
Yep Yep. My buddy that I'm working with
could not stand her. I think he knew that she was
selling me Xanax and stuff. Of course, I thought nobody
knew, but I'm sure he did. And she was on Semitex and I

(57:48):
never really got into shooting up Semitex, but a lot of people
death. And I would wake up in the
morning and I would snore my half and then she would shoot or
I'd hit her and she'd shoot her.And during the week at this
time, he would come up. I was living with my dad at the

(58:10):
time too. So I was kind of out of my mom's
house out in the country, staying away from stuff for the
most part. I got back into hunting a little
bit as much as I could because Icouldn't have a gun.
But we would run Coon dogs and stuff like that and go to
competitions and stuff. And me and him had went partners

(58:31):
on a couple dogs. But during the week, Monday
through Friday, he would I wouldgo to work with him.
So he would stop on his way in town at my dad's house and pick
me up. And I had like a a door that
came in the side of the house, went down the stairs in my
basement where it was like a little apartment where I lived.

(58:53):
He'd just walk in the door normally.
You know what I mean? Monday through Friday.
Well, this is a Sunday and and the last person I'm thinking is
walking through my door. You know what I mean?
I thought everything was fine and I did my piece of Sebutex
and I was sitting, she was sitting on the edge of the bed

(59:17):
and I was hitting her and he walked through the door.
Oh God. Wow, the needle's in her arm.
Oh my God. So he flies off the handle.
One second, almost done, Yeah. We get into a physical education
and it turns real S real quick. He he got the best on me

(59:43):
honestly. And then he went outside and was
taking the dogs. So I grabbed my pistol and went
outside and I didn't fucking lithis truck up out the driveway
just. Fucking yeah.
Just spray and wow. And he called the police,

(01:00:06):
obviously. Yeah.
And I, it's I knew what was going on.
I knew the he was going to call the police.
So I hurried out and put the gunback, which I don't know why I
put it back. I was probably a mistake, but
told her because she didn't knowwhat happened.
She just heard a bunch of gunshots and I came back in the

(01:00:27):
house. I said get your stuff.
We got to go and she's freaking out of thought.
I shot him and all kinds of stuff.
I was like, no, but we got to leave, you know what I mean?
So I take her in town and drop her off at my mom's house and
then I drive back out past my dad's house to see what's going
on. And there was cops everywhere.

(01:00:50):
So I went back in and got her before they could show up and
drove up to Columbus. Stayed on or no?
I drove the Circleville to her dad's and stayed there for a
night. We were all Xanaxed out and
stuff and she told her dad what happened for who knows what
reason and then he kicked us out.

(01:01:12):
And then I stayed up in off Pet Singer for a couple of nights at
Crack House. We didn't have nowhere to go and
I had to leave there eventually,so I didn't have anywhere to go.
I called in town and they had literally kicked everybody's
door. And then I know.

(01:01:33):
Looking for me of course. Except for my mom's house.
They didn't. They didn't even go there.
And I was thinking like, well, maybe they just don't think I'm
going there. Yeah.
So guess where I go, you know? What I mean, Yeah, Moms.
I stayed there that night. She had to work so she left that
morning and I was still asleep. She locked the door on her way

(01:01:58):
out and everything. But we are like I said, we had a
bunch of Xanax. We're all sandy down stuff so
I'm sleeping like a rock. And she said that she got
outside and as soon as she got in her car, she got surrounded
by the police and she. The very next day.
The next day, yeah. Oh, my God.

(01:02:20):
She wouldn't tell where I was at, but they, they knew where
they knew I was in the house. They ended up kicking the door
in. I didn't hear him kick the door
in. Nothing.
I woke up to them on top of me, you know, they I had the bike.
It's on. They you're.
Sleeping that well, but. And I went back to jail, you

(01:02:41):
know what I mean? What they charge you with on
this one? So at first I got charged with
felonious assault with a gun spec weapons under disability.
That's right. So there's F2F.
Felons. So you're doing mandatory time
now? Well, they dropped the assault

(01:03:03):
in the gun spec, so they droppedit down to weapons under
disability, but they maxed it out.
I got three years. I mean, you, you still have to
do that. That's still mandatory time.
Weapons under disability isn't mandatory.
It's not, well, I thought. I always thought it was if you
were a felon. I know if there's a gun spec.
If there's a specification, it'sit's mandatory, but so I pled

(01:03:29):
out to the to the weapons under disability.
So it wasn't mandatory time and leveraged my addiction
basically, you know what I mean.And but I still ended up doing
18 months on and I got a judicial.

(01:03:53):
I judicialed into a treatment program, STAR program.
I don't know if you've ever heard.
Star. You were in Star.
Oh please tell me about it it. Was that's like a cult.
I am. So I was incarcerated at CBCF on
Alum Creek and then I worked there, but I worked there during

(01:04:15):
COVID. So it was just a prison.
It was just like a minimum security fucking prison.
But the director retired. And you know, the name Justin
Sicilian might have been past your time.
Damn it. He took over as a director.
He was from * and he like, wanted to make that facility
star. And I'm like, bub, you're in

(01:04:37):
Franklin County here. Like no.
Star was terrible. I mean, I got through it, but I
can tell you this. If so, the first 30 days they
have this carpet that you're notallowed off of.
It's like child rules. Yeah, this shit's real.
I know. It's terrible.
No chair, please. Yeah, and I got in the kitchen

(01:05:02):
after this first 30 days and if I would not have gotten the
kitchen, I'd have never made. It you would have lost you.
Know I would have never made it 'cause people were getting in
trouble. You couldn't, I couldn't come up
and ask you for coffee or I'd bein trouble if I got caught.
Lending and borrowing is what they called it.
You're in trouble. And I mean, I at this time, I'm

(01:05:26):
so used to jail in prison, like I'm, I'm fighting usually over
silly shit. And you get kind of fighting,
you're going, obviously. Yeah, you're going straight
back. So like, yeah, I was just
thankful I got in the kitchen because I didn't have to
experience all the crazy stuff. You know, I was in there all day
long. So it's just basically like a

(01:05:46):
job and I had to do school work basically.
At the end of the day, it wasn'treal bad.
And I, I got through it and I mean it was.
I've always wondered, I've nevermet anybody that did time at *
but I know about it. So I was like I'm curious what?
What is this carpet thing? So in the day room there's a big

(01:06:08):
carpet and like so you wake up in the morning, you have to go
on the carpet and while you're on the carpet you have to be
working like doing their packetsand stuff.
OK, Yeah. And.
Like table time type deal. Exactly.
OK. And doing all your work and then

(01:06:29):
you get to get off the carpet for like an hour and then you
got to go back on and it's just all day.
Under garden it's. Yeah, all day long.
It's terrible unless you're in like class or lunch.
Or a job. Yeah.
Wow. It was rough.
Yeah, I, I mean, I've, I've heard people say like people in

(01:06:50):
CBC, I feel like send me back toa fucking prison.
I'll do, I'll do that. Fuck this.
If I would have had to do all five months like that, I would
have never. I would have just sent me back.
Yeah, I'm cool. But it was being in the kitchen
and working and stuff. It was just like a job

(01:07:10):
basically. It wasn't that bad.
That's. Good.
Let me take a drink of water. So I ended up getting out of
there. I was doing good actually, after
I got out of there right, I put together like 2 years of clean

(01:07:33):
time yeah. During that time I had started
school. I went back to school for heavy
equipment operator is what I wanted to do was doing really
good. Really.
I COVID happened, that's what happened.

(01:07:56):
And uh, let me see here. I'm trying to think 'cause I was
on misdemeanor probation for something, trying to think of
how this all went out or no, wait, when I got out of the
store, I ended up getting in trouble for something that went

(01:08:18):
back. I can't remember how it all
played out, but yeah, that wasn't, I can't remember if it
was during COVID or not. I'm getting my it's all.
Yeah, sure. But it's OK, it's a blur.
Yeah, it's all blur. I went, I went back to prison.
I obviously to finish my time. I went to Ross for that that

(01:08:46):
length of time. It was Ross.
It was, it wasn't too bad. It was better than medium
minimum. You know, they don't have people
bothering you themselves. It wasn't real bad.
I actually went to Noble. That's what happened.

(01:09:06):
I went to Noble when I first went back and then I got let out
into a halfway house and the halfway house Lancaster, and it
was like a trap house. They all are.
It was terrible. You know, there's dope.
I was shooting dope in there dayone.
Very rarely do we have someone come on here and tell us they're

(01:09:28):
halfway house stories are good. It's like it's never, it's just
always a trap. Yeah, it was horrible.
And I was in the halfway house for 30 days maybe and I got sent
back to jail for shooting dope and then went PRC took me back
to prison and I ended up going back to or I went to Ross and

(01:09:53):
finished my time out there in Ross.
I, this is when this is before COVID.
So I, I did go for a while. That's what it was.
I did go for a while after I gotout of Star.
I was reporting to probation doing good.
I hadn't gone to school yet. That was what it was.

(01:10:15):
I, I was doing good. I ended up getting high doing
the same old stuff and then, uh,eventually got caught up on a
drug test or something and then went back, went to noble, umm,
or no, I went back. They were gonna let me out on
drug court and I just use it as an excuse to get out And I

(01:10:36):
didn't even go across to the jail this across street from the
courthouse and they said, well, we're gonna let you out
tomorrow. Just come across street and uh,
see your PO and I walked out thedoor and took a left and never
went back. You're wild.
Yeah, and that that didn't last long.
I might have lasted a week that time or something.

(01:10:57):
Catch me if you can every time. Every time.
So then I I went back what it was was I had a really cool PO
and he was really giving me every chance in a.
World. Yeah, clearly.
Like I was going in there and pissing hot like every week and

(01:11:17):
he's like, dude, you just need to get your shit together.
And eventually I failed too manydrug tests and he's like, I got
it. I, I got a choice.
I don't have a choice. But anyways, so that happened.
I went to Ross. Nothing significant happened in
there really. I mean, just regular prison

(01:11:38):
stuff. My biggest, the worst prison I
ever went to is Belmont. That's where I went right after
or for the charge, the where theshooting and stuff.
I went to Belmont. I saw some crazy stuff happen
there. Saw a lot of stabbings and
people getting beat with locks and fan motors.
I mean, it was wild. Fan.

(01:11:59):
Motors, yeah, they take the fan motor and put it in that back
and what the. Fuck is those like little tiny
fans? The fan you put on your box,
like they're like, it's big. Oh, OK.
The motors in them are about like that.
Like that long. Throwing in that bag and you got
yourself a yeah. I said yeah, it's pretty crazy.

(01:12:21):
I see some crazy stuff there, lots of stabbings and stuff.
I saw a guy get cut from ear to ear with a tuna can lid.
Underneath. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Who's that? Prison was wild.
It's a lot of people from Cleveland.
I don't know if you've heard of heartless felons.
Yeah, yeah, that's what it was, full of them.

(01:12:41):
God damn. But.
A tuna can lid to the neck. Yeah.
God almighty, dude. And they sharpen them on rocks.
Like, yeah, they're like a knife.
Knife. It's a knife, yeah.
You've been to prison, right? I've I have not been to no CBCF.
Is a high one. OK, we'll use this, like, canned

(01:13:03):
lids to make, like, cutters for cutting up your sausage and
stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it's just one of those that somebody, some old timer, tried
to kill this dude. Jesus.
Yeah, it was wild that that was a wild time.
Yeah, but yeah, I bet that was scary as shit.
Yeah, at that time though, I waskind of used to.

(01:13:24):
Yeah, well, now you're so in it,yeah, that it's like, whatever,
another day at the office. Ross, Ross was a lot easier time
because a lot of those guys aren't going home.
Some people don't disrespect people in there, you know,
'cause you don't know who you'redisrespecting that they don't
have nothing to lose. Yeah.

(01:13:46):
Literally have nothing to lose. So a lot more respect there in
my eyes. It was more laid back time.
I kind of got into the gang stuff.
So it's a lot of politics and stuff like that going around,
but it is what it is. What, what did that look like
for you? The gang affiliation or I mean,

(01:14:09):
I know people, people always sayyou got to you got to pick pick
one. You got to pick one right when
you go to prison. And I've heard people say you
don't got to you can you can runsolo but I feel like it depends
on the prison. Yeah, it started in Belmont.
That's why I got, that's why I went to Ross, is because I got a

(01:14:31):
couple gang tickets and Noble. There was nobody in Noble when I
was there and I started getting people together and they hit me
with a gang ticket for organizing and stuff.
But since I got a patch in Belmont, it was kind of I didn't

(01:14:52):
have any trouble when I got to Ross.
I didn't have to read, do anything, you know, I was just
for they respected it so and they knew I was coming.
It was kind of made my time easier.
I had food, clothes, everything when I got there.
So that was cool. I guess the benefit of it.

(01:15:12):
But looking back on it, I wouldn't do it again.
You know what I mean? Is this your last number?
Yeah. OK, So when when are you?
When do you turn the corner? When do do we finally are
heading in the right direction? Not for a little while yet.
Yeah. I got out in 2017.

(01:15:35):
OK. I hit the ground running.
I did. I did a show of meth in a
parking lot at Ross. Oh, nice, yeah.
So as I wasn't wasting any time.Clearly not in the parking lot.
I soon as I touched down I started selling dope big time.

(01:16:00):
Like lots of meth. I was buying a quarter pound a
day. Damn.
About a quarter pound of ice a day and about an ounce of heroin
a day. And you were able to move that?
Yeah, in, in the day. It lasted 6 months so.
Do you have two the day? Did you have a couple?

(01:16:22):
I mean, you had to add a couple guys underneath you.
Just really me and my buddy. Really.
Yeah, but. Just trapping.
Yeah, yeah, all day. It was terrible.
My the cops would park it right outside the house, dude.
I mean, it was. I can't imagine.
It was nerve wracking. Every day.
I was just literally waiting forthe day they kicked my door and

(01:16:45):
just so happened to be the day that they did.
I went to pick up. I was completely out.
I had like a couple couple bags of dope set back for me.
I sent my buddy to meet our plugand our plug fell asleep.
It was like 4:00 in the morning.He was supposed to come meet us
in at Walmart and fell asleep. So my buddy came back without a

(01:17:09):
pack and like an hour later the cops kicked the door and didn't
find anything. Nothing.
Nothing left empty handed and you got.
To Oh, I went to jail. Oh.
OK. They hit me with they were, they
were there to, they were. Going.
Yeah, so they got me for permitting drug abuse, which was

(01:17:35):
a misdemeanor. What?
Kind of bullshit. 'Cause I was letting people
shoot up at my house. Permitting drug abuse.
It sounds like they're just making shit up.
Exactly, they they were just throwing stuff against the wall
to get stick. Damn.
But it got me clean. I got clean.

(01:18:00):
That was the last one. Nope, not the last one second to
last. So no I I got clean got with a
girl had two more kids. So I'm like 4 kids an hour went
that's when I went back to school for the heavy equipment
operator was doing great. Everything was good, everything

(01:18:22):
was going amazing, like the bestI'd ever done.
And then COVID happened and I didn't have to report to
probation anymore, so. Yeah.
I ended up slipping up. Plus the the Benny's government,
Benny's benefits that were coming in those.

(01:18:45):
Checks were nice. Yeah, they were.
I ended up, you know, completingthe probation not because I was
doing good, but because of COVIDand my time ran out and I was
strung out on fentanyl. You know, a pretty significant

(01:19:08):
amount of crazy stuff happened. I ended up getting shot during
that time by the 357 in my leg. Before I got shot though, I was
staying real under the radar. I would leave.
I wasn't selling dope or doing nothing.
How the hell did you go from under the radar to getting shot?

(01:19:32):
Just twacked out basically. What happened?
Somebody was trying to break into my house and I was walking
around with a gun. All twacked out and the gun went
off and the shot was shot yourself.
Oh my. God, dear.
Yeah, yeah, it was a mess, Yeah.Wow.

(01:19:57):
So that kind of the alerted the cops.
Are there stuff going on again? You know what I mean?
And then a year from the day I got shot, which I was strung out
on fentanyl, but I was to the point of just maintenance.
I wasn't like doing anything crazy.

(01:20:19):
I was just getting high of make sure I wasn't sick.
I wasn't going out robbing people or nothing.
I had a job at the time. I was working for my money.
I'd buy enough dope so I wouldn't be sick.
You know, I mean, I it's like kind of a regiment of like doing
like, you know, 4-4 shots a day or so.

(01:20:39):
Just get by. I was on methadone.
I got on a methadone program trying to get clean.
My girlfriend at the time I wentaway to to a rehab.
Reason being was when the fentanyl hit, you know I was

(01:21:02):
overdosing a lot. I mean, I, I can't tell you how
many times I was in the hospitalfrom overdosing.
It's just so hard to know. It's so hard to know what you're
doing, how much you're doing, how strong is it?
Exactly and plus a Xanax. Yeah, well, yeah.

(01:21:24):
I'm sure I've, I've, I've been hit with Narcan over a dozen
different times. Really.
Yeah, yeah. So, you know, I had four kids
and I didn't want to live like that anymore.
At the time. I was tired of it, you know,
I've been living like this for 20 some years now.

(01:21:47):
It's old, you know, it's always,I wasn't on any probation or
nothing like that. But you know, I always had to
had the chance of I didn't drivearound with dope or nothing, you
know what I mean? But I still had to go get it.
So it's always running a chance of getting pulled over on the
way home or whatever. And it's just like, man, it's,

(01:22:08):
it gets old. You know what I mean?
I'll call it luck now. Not at the time I didn't think
it was, but somebody came over to my house and stepped me up on
a, on a pistol. So, you know, it showed up out
of nowhere. Hey, I got this gun.

(01:22:30):
You want to go pick it up? It's a couple 100 bucks.
Yeah, sure. Yeah.
You know, I was just going to flip it real quick.
Go across town. He runs in, grabs it, comes out,
gives it to me. I make it 2 blocks and get
pulled over by three cops. Unreal.
Yeah, can't make it up they. Didn't even cuff him up.

(01:22:53):
They pulled him out of the car and let him sit on a If we're
going. To get you out of here.
We know how to handle this one, yeah.
I mean, and that was kind of dumb on my part.
He, I knew that he was known fortelling on people and stuff.
So I probably should have known better.
But it's one of those things like he won't do it to me type
of thing. And he did.

(01:23:15):
And so, but it's a blessing in disguise because that's the,
that's not the last time I used because when I went to jail, I
was on Xanax, prescribed 3 bars a day.
I was going to the methadone clinic.
Who the hell was prescribing you3 bars a day?

(01:23:36):
I just had a doctor, that Jesus,sweet doctor.
Yeah, you must have. God, that's a lot of Xanax.
Yeah, so I was getting 3 bars a day.
I was going to the methadone clinic, which that's illegal
right there. You're not allowed to be on both
at the same time. And I was on fentanyl still

(01:23:56):
trying to get off the fentanyl with the methadone.
But you got to titrate up so high on the methadone for it
even affect you. So when I went to jail I was
rough you know, And about 3 daysinto it I I was hallucinating
and all kinds of stuff. You weren't sleeping, I'm
assuming? I just remember I was in the

(01:24:21):
shower and I have fallen down inthe shower and they got me up
and was trying to get me in my rack and I fell over and had a
seizure and. The benzos.
Yeah, I ended up going to the hospital.
Did you tell that intake you were on benzos when you went in?
Yeah. I even stopped one.

(01:24:44):
That can kill you, yeah. I even stopped one of the guards
and I was like one of the guardsthat really knew me and I, I
don't complain. I know what it is.
When I go to jail, I'm going to be sick.
I'm not one of those people that.
You strike me as that kind of guy because again, I worked in
corrections for two years and you strike me as the kind of guy
that just does his time. Yeah, I'm just going to lay
there and get sick and get through it and then we'll move

(01:25:05):
on. Do your time and go home.
Exactly. And I told one of the guards I
was like, look, I never complained once, but this time
is not the same. Like, I'm not doing good.
And of course, he just spun me like, oh, I'll let medical know,
like, OK. And the next day, I had a
seizure. They never did.

(01:25:26):
Yeah. They probably didn't tell
anyway. So I had the seizure in jail and
I ended up going to the hospital.
Oh, at least they did that for you.
I was still in custody. They kept me in custody for like
2 days or something like that. Were you like when they walked
you in and you were cuffed? Were you getting just stared at

(01:25:46):
and everybody was looking at youlike a fucking yeah?
Like you're the they didn't walk, man.
Yeah, the wheel, man. Oh, they I was on a Gurney.
Yeah. Really.
Yeah, yeah, I was bad. So it was like a pretty serious.
Yeah, yeah, OK. Yeah.
And I ended up finding out I hadCOVID on top of everything.
So not only am I coming off all that stuff, I had COVID on top

(01:26:09):
of it. Yeah.
And that was the first time I had COVID, so I was.
Dope sick. Of COVID COVID, yeah it was
terrible so you know I'm laying in the I don't I can't even tell
you I don't even hardly rememberthe two days that I was in there
I. I Yeah.

(01:26:30):
I. Bet.
They came in on the third day, had me sign papers for a medical
ORI took the handcuffs off me and a.
Medical O. R That's just because if you're
in custody, guess who's paying the bill?

(01:26:51):
And I was admitted at that time.Usually if you're in jail and
you go to the hospital, to the ER or whatever, if they don't
admit you, you just go back to jail.
But if they admit you now how the county's paying for your
hospital bill, they. Don't want that They don't want.
That no, so they told me, you know, to to stay there and get

(01:27:18):
my test done and everything likethat.
And if I get released from the hospital, I'm to contact
probation. And at this time, if you have
COVID, you're not supposed to gointo the probation office.
This is like in, you know, not the beginning of COVID, but when
I was still like, you know, wearing masks and all that.

(01:27:38):
Yeah. So I asked the hospital, I, I
had my methadone at home, my, myweekend supply methadone at
home. And I had my Xanax, which are
the two reasons that I'm withdrawing real bad.
And I'm like, look, dude, I havemy own prescription at home.

(01:28:00):
Can my mom bring it? I'm not in police custody
anymore. And the nurse was just not nice
at all. It was like, no, you can't have
it. I was like, it's my
prescription. What do you mean I can't have
it? Like I'm not, I'm not in police
custody or anything. And she kept telling me no, I
was like, well, if you're not going to let me have my

(01:28:21):
medicine, I'm, I'm going to signout, I guess doctor's orders and
leave, you know what I mean? And and she's like you better
not or. Or wait, were they not giving
you like Valium or like something to like help you taper
down? I don't know.
They might have been. It was.
Valium drip or something? Not through an IV or nothing.

(01:28:43):
I know that. Damn.
I mean if they were giving me anything it wasn't helping.
So I, I ended up I'm staying fortheir one last Test for the
seizure because that was what they really wanted me to stay
for anyway. So I stayed, took the last Test
and then I signed no, I had my mom come and pick me up, went

(01:29:05):
home. I I couldn't hit mains anymore
at this time. I was just muscle popping
though. You're just blown out.
Yeah, I was either muscle popping or smoking it on a foil.
So I went home. I hey a couple or 8 of Xanax

(01:29:27):
took my methadone just thought Iwas getting gonna fall back into
life. Umm, I did smoke a foil or two
you know what I mean? Umm that I had leftover umm woke
up the next day, called probation, told her left a
message saying you know, I have COVID, I don't, you need to let

(01:29:48):
me know what I need to do Basically.
Umm I'm out of the hospital, never got a call back at all
that night. I had left the house to go or
they put an ankle monitor on me at the hospital AGPS and I was

(01:30:09):
wasn't on house arrest but I wason GPS and I had a curfew so I
was staying to true to everything.
I wasn't out past curfew, nothing.
I went out, got my car, drove upthe street and got surrounded.
This was January 7th. What was 2022?

(01:30:29):
Went to jail and that's the lasttime I used.
That was that was the last one? Yep.
What? How long did you stay in jail
the last time? So I had a bond is like 75,000
dollars, 10% my mom, my mom cameup with the money.

(01:30:56):
Wow. Yeah, went up to the courthouse,
tried to pay it and wouldn't. They wouldn't take it.
This was like maybe 20 days intoit.
I was through being sick and everything, you know what I
mean? I was feeling better.
They wouldn't take it and then raise my bond to 100,000.

(01:31:18):
So now I need 10,000 so and it took another 10 days or so and
she got the money together and borrowed me out and I told her,
told her and my dad didn't give her the money.
I'm not going to go into the legality, all that or the
structure of it. But basically it came from him
through selling something through the divorce, whatever

(01:31:41):
that he was still paying off some of the divorce stuff and he
just gave it, gave it to her so I could get out.
And I told him both like, if youpay my bond, I'll do it this
time for real. And that's I held up to it.
You know what I mean? So far what I got, I asked for

(01:32:01):
drug court when I was on bond. Never thought I'd get it did.
You get it. Yep, yeah, the so I told you I
had ran from felony drug court already though, and didn't even
report, you know what I mean? And that's one of the major

(01:32:22):
rules for the drug court. Probation officers don't lie and
don't run. So I just happened to see him
walking through when I was seeing my bond officer and
stopped him. And I was like, hey, I'm really
serious this time. Like I'm done living like that.
Can you just think about lettingme in drug court?

(01:32:42):
I don't need an answer now, justthink about it.
And uh, he made me sweat for a week or so and then he told me
to do it, let me in the drug court.
It was really rough for me in the beginning of my recovery

(01:33:03):
because I didn't want to leave the house.
Like I locked myself in the house, didn't want to leave,
didn't like going out, didn't want to see anybody, you know?
You don't know who you are really.
It's like, yeah, you know, yeah,that's tough.
It was like a whole identity crisis, you know what I mean?
Seriously. Because I've spent my whole life

(01:33:26):
building up to this person that I was and I have to leave all
that behind my whole friend group, everything like I had to
leave my whole life. You know that I took twenty 2223
years to build to. And he worked with me and you

(01:33:51):
know, he, he knew he's known me for forever.
The whole court system knew me. You know, I was kind of a.
Fixture. Yeah, they didn't like it.
They didn't make me follow the cookie cutter rules that they
have for everybody else. They kind of let me do my own
thing as long as I was doing good.
I attended counseling and stuff like that.

(01:34:11):
Obviously I was an IOP, went through all that stuff and you
know, I just really, really wanted it this time and put, put
100% effort into all of it. You know, what really helped me

(01:34:32):
I guess was I started going to the gym just to get out of the
house and that was what I kind of used in place of like a, a
meetings and stuff. And eventually going to the gym
LED into me powerlifting and from there when I started

(01:34:55):
competing. So I've competed, I've competed
in Miami, FL, Michigan, Kentucky, here in Ohio.
I've really done good in that. That's been a huge.
And it's sports. Yeah, this is sports.
Yeah. It's played a huge role in my

(01:35:16):
sobriety. You know, I mean, I kind of just
dove and head first on that, focus a lot of my time, time and
energy into that that and I've gained back a lot of trust for
my dad that I never thought I would.
You know what I mean? I've currently really taken a

(01:35:42):
big role in our family business managing that.
I I do all the back end work, like although I pay all the
bills, I'm in charge, all the bank accounts and everything
like that. Like I do all the financial
work, taxes, all that stuff. It's ironic.
Yeah. Which is, you know, really big

(01:36:03):
to me because he's trusted me with everything.
The money, yeah. The most important part of the
business, you know I have, I help my dad also manages real
estate portfolio. We have 86 units in Lancaster.
I've started my own portfolio ofrental properties.

(01:36:29):
Currently. I'm trying to start a business
right now. I'm getting ready to start the
LLC next week, which is multifamily real estate
syndication. I just really put a lot of my
effort into, you know, working and making myself a better

(01:36:53):
person. You know what I mean?
That's. Yeah, that's what it's all
about. Building new friend groups.
I don't hang out with anybody that I don't even talk to
anybody from that life. That was a something I always
struggled with in the past when I put together a little bit of
clean time, I'd always have one foot in that lifestyle, right?
I'd always keep a hold of a couple friends or whatever and

(01:37:14):
that and those couple friends would always be what let me
back. Take you back every time.
They will get you high before you get them sober.
Oh yeah. Yeah, every single time.
Yeah. I've tried to, I tried to
recover out loud as much as possible.

(01:37:35):
You know what I mean? Being as a Lancaster is not a
huge town. Everybody knows me from
Lancaster, everybody. And I like to think if I can do
it, just about anybody can. So, you know, I try to be as
open and stuff on social media as I can with my achievements
and where I, what I've gained and how I've done it and what's

(01:37:59):
worked for me. And I've been open to, you know,
if anybody needs anything, I'm there.
You know what I mean? To a certain extent, you know
what I mean? I got to protect myself first
and foremost. But yeah.
That's great dude. I honestly one of the craziest,

(01:38:22):
wildest roller coaster rides we've heard and quite some time.
I mean, the fact that you're sitting here today is a fucking
miracle. I know you know that and I know
you don't want to go back. So, you know, keep doing what
you're doing, keep working with other people.

(01:38:43):
That's that's so big. That's been big for me that they
say that nothing is more effective against alcoholism
than working with another alcoholic.
And you know, we kind of do thatwith a podcast, obviously.
But I mean, it's, it's true. You know, you help another
alcoholic and you're probably going to stay sober that day.

(01:39:05):
If, if you could deliver a message to anybody out there
still sick and struggling or yeah, going through it, what
would you say? What would your advice be or
what message would you deliver to them?
As cliche as it sounds, people, places and things are exactly

(01:39:29):
the problem. If you don't change your places,
if you don't change your friend group, you don't change the
things you're doing, you're never gonna make it.
You know what I mean? It's never too late to start
again. You know, I, that's something I
really thought, like I'm 37 years old.

(01:39:50):
I'm what's the point now? But 30 sums young, Yeah, in the
grand scheme. In the grand scheme of things,
it is, yeah. And, uh, the more that you
obtain in your recovery, the easier it gets.
I feel like, you know what I mean.
Umm. I think now, like if I was, you

(01:40:15):
know, just to get high one time,the stuff that I could lose, you
know. Well, imagine, yeah, if you used
once and something weird happened and you ended up going
and doing a a 10 piece. Yeah, like now we're talking.
I'm in my 40s and that, that is a mental barrier that would be

(01:40:37):
much harder to get past them 'cause it'd be so easy to say
fuck it, oh, I'm in my 40s now, I'm fucked, whatever.
Yeah, but you're right, it's never too late.
Yeah, it's never too late. And also like not being afraid
to ask for help, you know? Set your pride to the side and
ask for help. If you need help, ask for help.

(01:40:59):
It's Sometimes it's harder to ask for help than not.
It's. So hard, especially as guys, we
don't want to fucking be weak, you know, seen as weak.
And we're stronger together, obviously.
Yeah, you know. You're 100% right, dude, you're
100% right. I spent my first 90 days just, I

(01:41:21):
did recovery meetings and I did 90 and 90.
So I went to 1:00 every single fucking day for three months
straight because that's what someone told me to do.
But I was so desperate that it was like, OK, if you're telling
me to do this and you have 30 years sober, then I'm just going
to do it because obviously you know what you're doing, you
know? And like, that's what it came
down to. Or if the judge is telling me to

(01:41:44):
do something, it's because he's probably seen 10,000 guys just
like me in his courtroom. So yeah, dude, it's, it's a
struggle, but it's worth it. And I'm glad you're still here
with us. Yeah, thank you.
Me too. And.
You got to come here and share, Share your story and yeah, man.
Yeah, I appreciate being on. No, you're, you're a cool dude

(01:42:07):
and, and thank you. Seriously, thank you so much.
Yep. Thank you.
All right.

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How I Survived Over 20 Years Of IV Drug Use And 4 Prison Stays | Ep 76

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}How I Survived Over 20 Years Of IV Drug Use And 4 Prison Stays | Ep 76