Surviving Addiction, Prison & Poverty in Zanesville, Ohio | Ep 79

In this raw and gripping episode, hosts Louis and Aaron sit down with Brandon Somers, a man whose life has been defined by chaos, crime, and destruction—until recently. Born and raised in Zanesville, Ohio, Brandon never knew a life without crime. From an early age, the streets shaped him, and breaking the law became second nature.What started as trouble in his youth turned into a full-blown cycle of crime and addiction. Brandon’s rap sheet is long—so many different crimes that he lost count along the way. By the time most people were building their futures, Brandon was serving time in juvenile prison—not once, but twice. That pattern carried over into adulthood, leading him to prison a total of nine times. Each stint behind bars was another reminder of how deep he was trapped, but nothing seemed to break the cycle.Until one day, Brandon hit the point of exhaustion. He was too tired to keep living the same destructive life, too tired to keep hurting himself and everyone around him. That weariness became his turning point. Instead of giving up, Brandon made the choice to change—and for the first time in his life, he’s sober, rebuilding, and stepping into the man he was meant to be.This interview is one of the most powerful yet. Brandon opens up with unflinching honesty about his years of crime, addiction, and prison sentences, while also sharing how he finally found the strength to escape the cycle. His journey is chaotic, heartbreaking, and ultimately inspiring—a movie-like spiral with an ending filled with hope.Brandon’s story proves that no matter how many times you fall, no matter how lost you seem, redemption is possible.🔥 Expect emotion. Expect truth. Expect hope.🔔 Don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more powerful stories on addiction, recovery, and resilience.Get a Grip Podcast Social Media: Find our TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, iHeart Radio links, a more on our Link Tree below!Get a Grip Social Media Links: ⁠https://linktr.ee/officialgetagrippodcast⁠👇 Let us know your thoughts in the comments.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
I forgot to tell you that I'm onankle monitor at this time
because I went to the club, got zandied up, was drinking.
Obviously I'm too young to be inArizona parole.
Anyway, I started some shit so they jumped me and knocked my
tooth on. That's why I don't want a tooth
right here. So I got to put on the ankle
monitor for that. So I'm on ankle monitor at this
time when this happens about it to school.
So I'm like OK, I'm like So whatare y'all going to do?

(00:20):
Are y'all calling my parole officer or what?
They was like, Brandon, don't panic, but the cops is on their
way. I'm like what?
Pure. I'm gone.
Don't panic. Yeah, but they're on the way
right now. Why would they say that?
As a contradiction, if I. Dumbass thing to say for.
Sure, but so I left, cut the ankle monitor off to it, ran.

(00:41):
Ran till I couldn't run no more.All right, we're back with
another episode of Get a Grip podcast.

(01:01):
We have Brandon Summers from Zanesville, OH, we actually just
had someone from Zanesville on recently, so we have a good idea
of what it's like down there. But for you personally, we were
talking a little bit beforehand.It sounded like you had a bit of
a different experience growing up, so explain to us what that

(01:26):
was like for you growing up in that neighborhood.
Well, I started off in a smallertown called Mcconnellsville,
Morgan County, Chester Hill areaor whatever.
It's like 6, it's like 28 miles down 60 from Zanesville, where I
was raised. And it was, it was, it was like
my family was like my day was old fashioned.

(01:48):
You know, it's like my dad, he went to work and took care of
the family provided and my mom took care of home.
If my mom worked, it was becauseshe was bored usually, you know
what I mean? And she just wanted to get out.
But when things usually when when it drastically changes when
my father passed away, you know what I mean?

(02:08):
Like he, I don't know it just hewas the rock of the family and
everything I'm. Sorry to hear that dude.
I. Yeah.
That pain. Unfortunately, but and there's a
lot of racist problems down in Mcconnellsville and with my mom
going through it after my dad passing away on top of that.

(02:29):
How old were you? I was 5 when my dad passed.
Yeah, so. Sorry.
Man, I was probably about 6 whenthis occurred.
I went to stay with a friend andmy older brother, he passed away
not too long ago. Rest in peace, man.

(02:49):
That's my brother. But he, we, we got different
fathers, you know what I mean? So he's not mixed like us, but
my dad raised him. So that's his father.
That's just not, you know what Imean, biological, you know how
that goes. But, and they knew it.
They knew his dad was a black person down there.
So he had a lot of racist issuesdown there at school and all
that. So he'd get into a lot of fights

(03:11):
with him and all that. So I came home one day and after
staying all night with a friend and they had burned down the
house. Some racist people.
They burnt your house down. They burnt it down and this is
in the 90s. I'm 36.
This ain't in the 50s or not, you know what I mean?
What, what kind of thoughts are going through your head when you

(03:32):
get there and you realize, holy shit, that was my house and now
it's gone? Like how do you at that age
take? That I don't know.
I don't think I quietly understood it at the time, you
know, for real. I just felt like like I really

(03:57):
don't know. And after that I felt like they,
they used that against us, like it was our fault or my mom's
fault. So they took us away from our
mom. You know what I mean?
Really like, like pretty much saying it like because of that
situation. That she wasn't fit.
Yeah. I mean, yeah, yeah.

(04:17):
It wasn't fit to be a mother so.Was there ever an investigation?
Like did the did they ever come and find out if it was arson or
like what happened? I know nothing happened.
I know dude didn't go to jail ornot for it.
I know that for a fact. I'm not sure how that went
'cause like I said, I was young.You're.
Young, yeah. So they was probably keeping
what was going on. They're not telling me details.

(04:39):
I'm the kid, you know what I mean?
So they're probably just trying to keep me out of it for the
most part, you know what I mean?God, dude, as much as they can
or whatever. But so they took me and my
brother from my mom. My older brother went to live
with my grandma on my mother's side.
And so they took me and my brother from my mom and we went

(05:01):
to live with one of our aunts and uncles.
And then we went from there and lived with another one of our
aunts and uncles. You know what I mean?
Because obviously I was bad as akid so.
What does that look like, You being bad as a kid?
Oh, man. Hey, listen, I'll just tell you

(05:28):
this. When I graduated, when I
graduated kindergarten, and is that what it is?
Kindergarten in the 1st grade oris it preschool?
Yeah. OK, OK, well that when I went up
there and told him in front of the whole class I wanted to be
AOG and my mom busted my ass forthat.
So that tells you how bad I was.You know what I mean?

(05:49):
At that young of a age. Wow.
You know. Even.
Yeah, I don't even know how you knew to say that, really, other
than being around other people who are saying it and you're
hearing it and you know what it means.
And damn. Wow.
And then on top of that, a lot of my idols growing up was
people who've been to the pen, my cousins and stuff.

(06:11):
Boys. Yeah, my cousins, like so.
So it's crazy. Even though I didn't understand
what it was when I at a young age, I knew I was going to go to
prison. I knew that.
Did you really You really felt that and believe that?
Yeah, I really believe that. I knew it was going to happen.
Wow, I knew it. Was going to happen.
So from kindergarten moving forward, did you end up

(06:35):
graduating school? High school did you complete?
No, I didn't complete. I did not complete.
OK, so like I said, we got took from my mom then as much as I,
this is how I remember it. I I was a kid, so maybe it
didn't go down like this. There was a court date for

(06:56):
review or whatever. And I remember my mom just
coming in before we even had court and grabbing me and my
brother like these are my kids, you feel me like, and snatched
us, put us in the car. Move this to Zanesville.
We stayed in the Salvation Army for about about a month till we
was able to get an apartment in a manner.
And that's what that that's whatI remember of it.
And then after that it was just trouble after that.

(07:20):
When you switched, when you moved to Zanesville, did you
switch schools then or were you just was that that?
Oh, no, As that elementary, you mean.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I went to school and all that.
Yeah, I definitely went to school.
And when I was in school I I'd done good, got grades and good
grades and stuff like that. But it was the the.
The other stuff. Yeah, the problems, you know,

(07:41):
the anger issues and, and, and stuff like that.
Well, I say that all that to saythis that led up to me not
graduating because I at 13, I end up going to boot camp and
they sent me to boot camp in Muncie, IN.
Just like a juvie type deal. Yeah, juvie type deal.
Yes, they sent me there. What'd you do to land yourself

(08:04):
there? I threw a desk at a teacher.
OK, that'll. That'll do it.
That'll do it. I mean, because if you picked up
one of those big ass, I mean, they're pretty heavy and big.
And back then the chairs was connected to them.
Yeah, they were screwed to them and threw it across the room.
Yeah, that'll do it. So you go to your first

(08:26):
institution. At what age?
How old were you? At 13.
Well, I've been to juvenile before, but that was my first
bid. Quote UN quote, right?
What was that? What was that like for you going
in there? Were you scared?
Were you it? Was it was horrible.
It was horrible, man. Just as an institution, it was
horrible. You can go and look it up to
this day with then they'll tell you all the bad stuff that

(08:48):
happened. The way they treated kids they
would, they had been, they had beat you in there.
We've heard that a lot. Man, I mean, they would go
crazy. It was crazy, man.
You wasn't allowed to never talkto another inmate.
Never. And it was boot camp 24/7.
If you had any problem, you could have the flu and they'll
tell you to put MRDC lotion on it if you if you violate and

(09:10):
they send you to the hole, they got a camera inside of the hole,
which I don't see how you got touse the bathroom and everything.
You know, I mean, and maybe in Ohio, it's different than
Indiana and I don't know, like the laws or whatever, but yeah.
So they had a camera in there and if they saw, they'd take
your mattress all through the day.
And if they seen you falling asleep, they would play opera

(09:31):
real loud and everything was in their metal.
So it just bounced off of there to keep you awake and if you
slept. In your cell.
And your cell. And if you slept through that,
then they would add more time onto your whole whole sentence.
Oh my goodness, yeah. Damn, that's brutal.
And. Listen to this, the day that I
got out of there, I didn't make my bed that morning and we drove

(09:57):
all the way from and they drove me all the way from Indiana back
to Zanesville to go to court because I had to go to court
before I got released. And they made me stay another
couple weeks, drive me all the way back.
It was a Blizzard out mind you drive me all the way back
because I didn't make my bed that morning and my time was up,
but they gave me another couple weeks because I did not make my

(10:18):
bed. To God.
Promise you my mom was livid. And they decided in a Blizzard
that they would rather just haulyour ass back and.
Just haul me back and. So what'd you do like 2-3 weeks?
2-3 weeks and then got out and the whole time I was in there I
only talked to my mom once. I'm a 13 year old kid, you know
what I mean? God.
Yeah, that's rough. That's rough because they're

(10:41):
essentially treating you. I mean, they're treating you
like an adult. Not for.
Sure, like a full grown adult competent like yeah, no.
And then on top of that, it was like it's, it's like the worst
of the worst was there because you got gang members from
Chicago, Detroit. Really.
All the surrounding states, theygo there.
What teenagers, what's the gang life like in a place like that,

(11:05):
I mean. Every gang you could possibly
think, really. You know what I mean?
I wasn't gang related at the time, but I would I, I
represented a gang. I wasn't official.
I was young, you know what I mean?
Just or whatever, but I got intoa fight when I was there or
whatever behind it. And the dude, the dude was from
Ohio. You ought to be the only dude

(11:25):
that was from Columbus by where I was from.
I got into a fight with over some gang scores but.
So it does exist, the gangs and all that and.
Yeah, for sure. Listen, juvenile, juvenile
systems, way worse than the adult system could ever be.
That's why when it comes to gangs and.
You'd think with just with like with kids they would more so

(11:48):
like hey like let's get them through some classes or like try
and get them back on track, but sounds like it's the exact
opposite. Of they literally tell you that
they're prepping you for the forstate prison.
That's what they tell you. They they tell you that straight
out their mouth. But then after that, you know
what I mean, I ended up, I endedup catching a case after I got

(12:13):
out. You know what I mean?
And like I said, all this will lead up to why I didn't
graduate, what we do make this first subject or whatever.
But so I ended up catching a case.
So I was with. I was on probation after I got
out there, so and I was with. What are you?
What are you, 14 now 15? Yeah, 1415.

(12:36):
So I get out and I get with thisgirl and stuff and I'm on
probation. Well, I ended up wanting to run
from probation. Well, I'm talking as a girl.
We're together for a while. Well, back in the day,
Zanesville, like the West side and the east side never liked
each other because like the Westside was like majority black,
the east side was majority white.

(12:58):
Really. Yeah.
So they like, if people's my ageor older, they know, you know
what I mean? They know what I'm talking
about. So when my the my girlfriend
that I was talking about lived over there on the east side
though, but she was black, but her family was white, but they
had respect over there. You know what I mean?

(13:18):
And so when I start going over there to see her, like the the
dudes that hungover there or whatever, like that fake ran it
or whatever you want. I mean, one of them was her
ex-boyfriend. So I automatically they didn't
like me. I was from the other side of
town, you know what I mean? I'm, I'm on your side of town
messing with. And one of the dudes that they

(13:39):
look up to, that's his niece. So they really can't do nothing
to me, you know what I mean? Because he'll be on them.
And not only that, they, they knew that I used to be on some
bullshit too, you know what I mean?
So they're like, you know what Imean.
They really didn't like it, but it was what it was.
But anyway, I was dating her. So I ended up going on the run
from probation or whatever and because I don't want to go do

(14:02):
time, you know what I mean, or do the probation because I'm
smoking weed at this time. I start smoking weed.
I start smoking weed when I, well, the first time I smoked I
was 8. I could I consistently start
smoking it when I was 10. Wow.
When you say consistently, are we talking daily?
Yeah, daily. Wow.
Daily. Yep.
How does a 10 year old hustle upmoney to smoke weed every day?

(14:24):
Well, I mean I got an allowance her a month from a check from my
dad, you know what I mean? OK, I got you.
I got you and. My my mom, my mom was a great
mom or whatever, you know what Imean?
She was just, she always had to work 2 jobs, you know what I
mean? She so she really couldn't be
there right? Super busy trying to put food on
the table and keep a roof over her head.
But I ended up catching a case. I mean, I ended up being on the

(14:46):
run for that. Well, my cousin, my older
cousin, he went to. So I was OK.
And I was selling crack at this time too.
So somebody ended up fronting mecrack at this time too, around
when I was at that age. So I'm selling that for him.
And there's like a project building behind the girl's house
that I'm dating and that's whereI'm selling that.

(15:08):
Well, I'm just sitting there andmy older cousin just got out of
prison from doing a drive by on a cop's house down in Chester
Hill. He did seven years for that.
So he got out and he pulled up and he we ain't, I ain't seen
him in seven years. And so I seen him and he is
like, oh, what's up? You know, I mean, I gave him a
hug and all that. And he was like, what are you

(15:28):
doing? I told him I was going to run
and all that. So he was living down in West
Virginia at the time. So he is like, come on, you're
coming with me. So I went down there and was
staying with him after a while. Mind you, old girl.
What about old girl? Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just dipped out on.
Her. Yeah, you just bounced.
I just bounced out on her, didn't give her no explanation,
none of that just bounced out. And at this time my mom didn't

(15:50):
know where I was or nothing. So there's posters of me up and
all that because not only am I am I missing I'm wanting to run
for probation or whatever, you know, so but we ended up my
cousin ended up making me call my mom and tell her that I was
down there and I was safe. Not does she agree with it, but
she was glad that I was safe. You know what I mean?
But so I was down there selling drugs for, you know, and making

(16:13):
money. So one day I just realized how
much money I had made and I wanted to leave and come back to
Zanesville and just show people how much money I made.
You know what I mean? I was young, just trying to show
off or whatever. So I come back to Zanesville and
one day I'm with with one of my other cousins and we pull up to

(16:34):
we call it the Chinese store or whatever.
And old girl's dad lives across the street from there, which is
on our side of town. And she sees me and she comes
up. She's like, oh, where you been
cussing me out and all that, Youknow what I mean?
And she's like, well, she's like, come and come to my house
tonight at 1 or whatever, you know what I mean?
After my mom goes the best. So I'm like all right, so I go

(16:55):
there and so I go I don't go there at 1.
I mean so I'll end up seeing herforever.
So one day I'm bored and end up and decide I want to go over
there. So I go over there.
She comes to the car like I'm back with the dude.
She was wet before and it was like I'm pregnant and
everything. So I'm like all right, so I
banged out. So I ended up running through
all that money. Me and my friends is getting

(17:15):
drunk one day and we need money to continuous our drug use.
That was the first night I used cocaine also this night, OK.
And so I wanted to get more drugs, more alcohol and all
that. So we're all drunk.
So I'm like, I know where we cango.
So I wanted to go to this project building where all these
dudes was selling drugs out on the other side of town and rob
them for their money. And plus I had a vendetta

(17:37):
against them already. So I'm like kill two birds with
one stone, you know what I mean?So, so we go over there to that
project building and try to run in there.
They run out the other side, shoot a gun or whatever.
So they run out the other side and I'm like, I know where they
went. I'm like, because they're back
together, her mom's at work and they're over there, you know
what I mean? So I go, so we we go kick the

(17:59):
door and run in there. She's on the phone or whatever.
I ripped the phone because I think it's the cops asked where
they're at. She don't tell me or whatever.
And we got the gun the whole time or whatever.
So we ended up leaving and obviously she called the cops.
Why wouldn't she? And she was pregnant this whole
time, you know, I feel horrible about it or whatever, but it
happened, you know, But so now I'm on the so now we're on the

(18:25):
run for aggravated burglary and.They didn't take you that night,
they took you. We ran.
Oh, you ran? Yeah, we got away.
Yeah, we got away. She she called the cops.
We got away. You bounced.
Yeah, we bounced out. We bounced out.
So I end up, so we're on the runnow and it's for attempted

(18:46):
murder and aggravated burglary because when we kicked in the
door, there's a bed there. We ran over the bed.
I guess there was a baby there and somebody hurt the baby.
I didn't know that, but that that ended up getting dropped
that that. The attempted.
Murder. Attempted murder, dude, Yeah.
Dude, you had to have seen that and been like Oh my God.
Oh. Yeah, yeah, Heart drop to your.

(19:07):
Stomach. Yeah, I couldn't believe it
because I didn't know. I really didn't know.
I mean, I was on some bullshit. I know, right, Doing what I was
doing, but I didn't know that like so we so after that, so
we're on the run now. So we split up.
Now it's only me and one of my cousins.
And then so we're like, and we had a car that we gave somebody

(19:28):
some drugs to rent and just never took it back.
And this is what we're driving in the whole time.
So we, we take the gun and stuff, me and my cousin, and we
go where we go first, Mcconnellsville, because we knew
we had to get out of Dodge, you know what I mean?
And that's where I'm front. No, I went, we went to Cambridge

(19:48):
1st. And some stuff I'm saying is
allegedly, you know, because I don't want to incriminate nobody
or nothing. So we, so we go to Cambridge
because my cousin's up there. Byron, rest in peace.
He passed away or whatever, but so we go up there and we go to a

(20:10):
little, a little teenage club. I think it was called the House
or something in Cambridge. I forget what it's called it.
Somebody's like my age or older,they probably remember it.
So we go down there, we're down there kicking or whatever.
So we decide to go on a ride. No matter of fact, we did go to
Mcconnellsville first. My bad.
We go to Mcconnellsville first. We're down there kicking it or
whatever. And then we ended up the car

(20:34):
starts knocking the car that we're in.
So we pull over in his trailer court, but somebody got a car
warming up. So what do we do?
We hop in that car, take that car.
So we go to Cambridge after thatand I go up there to my cousin.
We go to the house and all to the little club or whatever.
After that we decided to we is going to ride around, smoke a
joint. Well, my cousin was like, stop
right here. He's going to ask this dude for

(20:55):
a cigarette. So he asked him for a cigarette
to do say he ain't had one. But he said in a smart manner.
So my cousin got mad. He said go around the block.
We went around the block, my cousin shot out the window, we
banged out, went back to the little club.
Shot, he, shot him. Yeah.
So the ambulance rode by. The ambulance rode by.
So we knew that he actually hit him.

(21:16):
And so we dipped out. Allegedly, allegedly.
This is all allegedly. And so we banged out from there.
We had to leave Cambridge. We couldn't stay there.
So we went to Marietta because Iwas down in West V Marietta at
the time, so I knew some people in Marietta.
So we went down to Marietta and stuff and we ended up running

(21:39):
out of money and there was some guy passing out.
He was a church guy or something.
He was trying to pass out coats and stuff for people who didn't
have it, and we ended up robbinghim to get money and so we leave
there. We leave there, we go back to

(22:00):
Zanes, but we don't know where to go at this point.
We go back to Zanesville. Cross your mind to leave the
state or anything. I mean, I guess, but like, where
are you going to? Go.
Where are we going to go? We don't know nobody, you know
what I mean? We don't got no money.
So we come to Zanesville and we go somewhere and one of my
homies from Pittsburgh was like,well, I'm from Pittsburgh, we

(22:21):
can drive up there. You know what I mean?
Go, go up there. It's.
Close, yeah. So we hop in the car with him,
we go up there. He was like, he was like, y'all
ever hit a link before? Like you know what I mean?
Rob somebody. I'm like, yeah, He was like,
y'all ever robbed a store and we're like, yeah, lying.
I was lying anyway, you know what I mean?
I ain't never on this. I was just trying to seem cool,
you know what I mean? I was the youngest out of all of

(22:41):
us too and all. Yeah.
This other dude tagged along with his to name Gary.
He wanted to go with us for somereason this guy did.
But to be on the adventure, I guess Bob was the youngest one
out of all of us, you know what I mean?
But so he he gave us the gun andwe went in the store and robbed
him. He's like, don't never believe
that there's only money in the cash register, you know what I

(23:02):
mean? He said there's always more
money. So we go in there, I got the
gun. I tell my cousin, you collect
the money, you know what I mean?And I hold the gun, So I go in
there and I upped the gun on himor whatever.
And I said give me, I said give me the money, you know what I
mean? Do the little routine or
whatever. And there's an old guy sitting
in there and he looked at the cashier.
I mean, the cashier looked and like, what should I do?
And the old man's like, we'll give him the damn money, you

(23:23):
know what I mean? So he gives me the money, gives
my cousin the money and I'm like, where the rest of the
money at? I know there's more, you know
what I mean? Or whatever.
So we end up getting money out of a drawer too.
And then we left, boom, hopped in.
There is a couple $100 all together.
So we hopped in there left. So we need somewhere to stay.
So where do we go stay while we're doing all this?

(23:45):
We go stay with his sister, which is a Pittsburgh police
officer. So we're staying with her.
We're on the run for all this, doing all this and she don't
even know. He thinks she thinks he just
came back from our house to visit her.
And we're staying in our house robbing stores.
So we end up robbing a store after that.
And then we ended up, it was a deli, we robbed that and then we

(24:10):
ended up robbing a gas station. And then after that he's like,
man, we got to get out of here what y'all want to do?
So where y'all want to? Go and you're still not 18, are
you? No, I'm 15 years on.
God, yeah, I'm 15 years on so. And again, my mom don't know
where I'm at because I'm not with my cousins no more at the
time. So she don't even know where I'm

(24:30):
at. And then now she knows all this
went down. So, so we go, so we, we were
like, well, my cousin had some family because it's my cousin by
marriage. He ain't my real cousin is my so
he had family down in West Virginia.
So we was like, we'll go to Westfield, WV.
Well, when we got down there, we're like, what?

(24:52):
I ain't too smart. His family will tell his family
back home where we're at. So we'll just go to it's
springtime. We'll go to spring break
Daytona. So we went down there and we
ended up going through this drive through and meeting these
girls. And so after we met the girls at
the drive through, she's like, well, one of y'all's way back
stop through, you know what I mean?

(25:12):
And so we went down to Daytona, had a good time or whatever was
on the way back to go meet thesegirls and my dude was speeding
on the highway. We told him to slow down and he
is being horror headed like oh man, just talking, you know, I
mean being stupid pretty much. So he wants to speed.
We come around the corner, there's a.
Stadium. Whoop, whoop.
And we're in a still in a stolencourt this whole time.

(25:32):
So it's over. So next thing you know, he tries
to outrun him or whatever and there's this rest area.
He puts in this rest there. We're going to get out and run.
We pointed this rest area. It's a big dirt field.
They ain't even built the rest area yet.
It's just a big dirt field that they're about to build a rest
area. By this time the choppers on us
all that yeah, it's over, It's over.

(25:53):
So they get us, they find a gun,realize we're on a stolen car.
Oh God, I lied about my age. And so they put me in the county
up there, down there in West Palm Beach, FL.
So when they put me in the holding cell, I'm looking
around, seeing all these grown men, big, you know, I mean, big
dreads, gold teeth. I'm little.
Now imagine how little I was. Then I'm like, so then I told

(26:15):
him the truth, like, hey, I'm only 15.
You gotta be like, I can't be inthis county.
You saw some of those dudes? You're like, yeah, I'm 15.
Yeah, I'm 15. I can't do this, No.
So they ended up taking me to juvenile and when they took me
to juvenile in there, they put me in there with all the
Hispanics because it's there's a, it's so segregated down
there. There was a dorm for the
Hispanics and a dorm for the blacks.

(26:37):
Wasn't one for the whites or nothing.
There was one facility and he was in our block.
Majority Hispanic I assume, right?
What my race? That that facility, that
institute. Well, it was split half and
half, two different dorms, 1 black dorm, 1 Hispanic dorm.
So they put me in there just cause of the way I look, you
know what I mean? And so I'm in there with them

(26:57):
the whole time. I ended up being cool with one
of the heads of the Hispanic gangs or whatever and talking to
his sister, 'cause see out thereand juvenile when you go out on
the yard or whatever, you go outthere with the females, but they
stay over there and you stay over here, but you can still
talk. So me and her got to chopping it
up and then on the way to court,she had to court that day too,

(27:18):
obviously, and we were in court together.
So we chopped it up then too. So they ended up shipping us
from there though from to Orlando because my cousin came
there too. And then from Orlando, they flew
us from West Palm Beach to Orlando and then from Orlando
they flew us to Columbus. From Columbus, Zanesville came,

(27:41):
got us and then they took me down here, sentenced me, gave me
two years, two years, two years because they dropped out
sentence murderers, aggravated burglary.
I did two years in DYS for that.In Cuyahoga Hills.
I did my last six months in Mohican.
I think they only gave me a year, but I ended up doing 2.

(28:02):
They got this thing called matrix time, like every time you
go to DYS they double your time.I don't know how they do it, but
they really. Yeah.
So they doubled my time. I did 2 years, got out on
parole, juvenile parole with that is.
And you're, what, 17 now? Yeah. 1617 is yeah.
Also listen to this welcome to find out when I'm in DYS, right?

(28:25):
They come to me. They're like, so they come to
me, make me go to the Infirmary.They swab my mouth and there's
like, we'll be back with you three to six weeks.
And they came back. They didn't come back to me in
three to six weeks, but my mother did, and one second.

(28:48):
You're. Good.
It's pretty obvious what I'm probably about to say.
You feel me? But but yeah, that was my

(29:09):
daughter, though. It was in her stomach.
You feel me when I did all that.Gotcha.
Damn. So yeah, so that was fucked up.
Damn. Luckily she forgave me.
I was going to ask you back whenshe said she was pregnant if it

(29:31):
was yours or? Well, she told me it was his.
Yeah, at the time. But it was yours.
Yeah, she told me it was his at the time, but it ended up being
mine. Damn, it didn't, it didn't have
to be on mine. But after after that I got out,
I was going to school for a little bit and I got I was

(29:56):
selling weed and I had access tocoke too.
And this girl kept asking me at school for coke every day, coke
every day. You know, because my brother was
a weed man, so he had pounds andshit.
So, you know, my lunch money washe'd just have a drawer full of
one flies and I just go in thereand grab a handful and go to
lunch, you know, I mean, and that's why me and my brother are

(30:18):
so close or whatever. He's doing 25 years right now.
But he was like a father figure Slash, you know what I mean?
Slash brother. Yeah, he's doing 25 years.
He was the rock of the family and everything.
So it it, it fucked us up. It fucked the family up a lot
when he got on drugs and went down that path.
But yeah, so so I ended up finally bringing this girl some

(30:41):
cocaine like she wanted and I'm in there falling asleep because
I was up on cocaine all night. So I fall asleep in class and
next thing you know, the principal and Eric, that body
come get me. Like come here.
And I'm going because I'm in task class.
So there's only two classes. So they take me to the other
class, which is behavioral class.
And she's sitting there, the bagof cocaine sitting there, the

(31:03):
principal and everybody's in here and I'm on ankle monitor at
this time. Oh.
My God. Oh yeah, I forgot to tell you
that I'm on ankle monitor at this time because I went to the
club, got zandied up, was drinking.
Obviously I'm too young to be inArizona parole.
Anyway, I started some shit, so they jumped me and knocked my
tooth on. That's why I don't want a tooth
right here. So I got to put on the ankle
monitor for that. So I'm on ankle monitor at this

(31:23):
time when this happens about it to school.
So I'm like OK, I'm like So whatare y'all going to do?
Are y'all calling my parole officer or what?
They was like Brandon don't panic, but the cops is on their
way. I'm like what?
Pure I'm. Gone.
Don't panic. Yeah, but they're on the way
right now. Yeah.
Why would they say that? That's a contradiction.
If I. Dumb ass thing to say for.

(31:43):
Sure, but so I I left cut the ankle monitor off to it, ran,
ran till I couldn't run no more they so I went back to DYS
again. Oh, and I went in there.
I did a year. How long did it take you you
picked up after you ran that day?
It probably took me a a few months, really.

(32:07):
If that. Yeah, a few months because I
went to Mcconnellsville and stuff like that.
Yeah. I was never on the run long.
I got caught. Well, I'm not a good criminal.
I'm going to find out for real. I'm not, but.
So, yeah, but that's why I didn't Graduate School though,
you know what I mean, was because of that, because I got
expelled for selling cocaine in school.

(32:29):
So what she just she just told straight up, yeah.
She just told I don't know. I don't know.
She got caught doing it. I don't know.
Yeah, that's what it sounds like.
Yeah, I don't, I don't know. Like it was him, he sold it to
me. He sold it to me like so I
don't, I don't know what what happened because I was knocked
out, you know what I mean? I was asleep.
So but yeah, and then that happened and then I wasn't out
long at all. I wasn't out long at all before

(32:51):
I turned that into an adult thing because I ended up
violating my parole again. So what they did, they said
we'll give you 90 days in the county jail since you're an
adult now and terminate your parole unsuccessfully.
So I said, OK, did that, got outof that and then went and then
not too long, a couple months later, caught a gun case, got
caught with a gun and it was a street highway patrolman.

(33:14):
Were you a convicted felon at that point?
I was as a juvenile, See, if I would have knew, if I knew what
I know now, back then, I would have fought that because how can
I have a weapon under disabilitywhen that happened as a
juvenile? And you can't hold juvenile
cases against you when you're asan adult.
I was going to ask you if it's weapons under disability can't

(33:35):
does the juvenile? Like does that count if you were
charged or something it? Shouldn't, but I didn't know no
better at the time and they knewI would cop out, you know what I
mean? Probably they knew I'd take
probably take a plea deal because 99%.
Of the and that's all that's mandatory time.
Just so our viewers know that comes with they have a spec.
Was it a gun spec? Or no, it no, it wasn't a gun.
Just weapons under disability. Weapon under disability, see

(33:57):
what they'll do to overcharge you, give you the gun spec, CC
dub weapon under disability and be like, we'll drop the gun spec
into CC dub if you cop out to the weapon under disability just
to get you to cop out. So I ended up doing time for
that. So this is your first.
Well, this will This would have been your first time going to a
state prison as an adult. As an adult, where'd you go?

(34:17):
I went to Noble. And how before you?
Guys, get in this. You have to.
You said it was a State Highway Patrol man's gun.
It was a State Highway Patrol man's gun.
You elaborate on that. Well, this is what happened.
I was. Wait, the the gun that you had?
That I got caught with. It was his retirement gun I was
selling. We me and my friends were

(34:38):
selling dope and one of my friends bought it off of off of
a crackhead. He really didn't want it and he
was like just give me my 50 thatI paid for.
I gave him 54. I opened the box and it was it
was a maroon steel. I still ain't seen a gun like
that to this day. A maroon Steel state highway
patrolman issued 357. Yo, and so you just that was

(35:01):
just your gun from there on out,like.
Yeah, yeah, until I got caught. I mean that thing is probably
looked bad. I mean, I'm sure.
Man, I ain't never seen a gun like it.
I really haven't. It was probably.
Tough dude, yeah. I seen blue still, but maroon
still. That's that's different.
Yeah. I I still ain't seen nothing
like that till this day. Damn, I didn't realize you had
said that. Holy shit.

(35:22):
God almighty. And you know that Stady, as soon
as he saw that, knew what it wasimmediately I'm I'm sure.
Oh, man. And they ran up on me like they
busted. Oh yeah, The dude that I was
trying to sell it to, I think hetold on me, which was the dude
that my homie was ran up off of.Ran up on drugs off of.
God damn. You know what I mean?
Because right after I walked outof his house.

(35:45):
No, Yeah, right after I walked out of his house, they, the
detectives and everybody just swore me, you know, I mean,
like, they knew I had it. So yeah, I think he told on me
or whatever. So you go for your first adult
stay at a state prison. What was that like compared to

(36:06):
juvie? I know you said it's much easier
than juvie but it's it's different though.
Yeah, well, back at the time, Noble was off the chain.
It's not now. It's more laid back and all
that. But it was off the chain back
then. My first day, man, I got in, I
got into three fights back-to-back.
It wasn't even it wasn't even over me.
There was a back then you could smoke.

(36:27):
Yeah, I'm, I'm that old, but anyway, back then you could
smoke. And so this dude from
Cincinnati, there was a dude from Zanesville I was cool with
and there was this dude from Cincinnati named Streets.
Well, he took my dudes black andmild and took off running with
it. But he is just laughing like he
is playing with him. But he because my dude was a

(36:48):
little skinny white dude, you know what I mean, So he thought
probably thought he could get over on him or whatever.
So he really ended up smoking it.
So my dude comes to me because he don't know how to prison
politics go, which I don't either, you know what I mean?
But he comes to me like bro was,but I'm trying to fight dude,
you know what I mean? How do I set up, set it up?
You know what I mean? Because I ain't trying to get
jumped. So I'm like, so I go holler at
my other dude that been there a while, you know what I mean?

(37:09):
Like, hey, what's up? I want to set up the one-on-one
for him or whatever. And he was like, all right,
well, we're on the phone. Well, all these Cincinnati dudes
is in the bathroom kicking it, and here's I'm just going in
here and trying to set it up so I'll follow him in there, man,
'cause I'm trying to have my dudes back.
And he goes in there and just cracks that dude.
And this dude's around all his homies in the bathroom.
It's just me and him. He cracks that dude, splits his

(37:32):
eye, and then the dude's friend hits him, boom, slides him clear
to the phones. And the next thing you notice
the police is in there breaking it up all that.
So now after that's done, it's count time.
And they're talking shit the whole count because they think
we come in there to jump him Now, you know what I mean?
When that wasn't the case, but they went to the whole my dude

(37:52):
and all that. So now I'm out here, you know, I
mean dealing with your shit. So I go to after count time, I
go back to the back TV room, allthe Zanesville homies just
kicking it. And when I go back there, next
thing you know, I see all the Cincinnati dudes just coming
back there, You know what I mean?
I'm like, oh man, that's about to go down.

(38:14):
So I just pull my pants up and sit down, you know what I mean?
And I'll tell you what, man, by the time they got back there,
there was probably only about fours Angel dudes left in there.
I swear they all, they all. They all just tiptoed out.
Yeah, they all had to take a shit or something.
On Take a Shit. Yeah.
But yeah, they was all they was all they.

(38:35):
They was gone for sure. So dude come in there, he steals
on me so I get up and run to thecorner so they can't surround
me, you know what I mean? And so me and that dudes and
they're fighting and then this other dude try to jump over the
bench and still on me. But my dude pushed him and was
like Nah y'all is not jumping him you know what I mean?
So me and that dude finished fighting and then after that I

(38:57):
fought him for trying to steal on me.
And after that his brother was mad so I had to fight his
brother. And then after that they tried
to make me fight this other dude.
My dude was like no. And the reason why they respect
my dude 'cause I guess my dude that beat up one of them like a
couple weeks before I came. He is like Nah that's not
happening. He's like he's already out of
wind you feel me? And this dude's way too big.
You always trying to have him fight like so.

(39:18):
It was over with after that but.Yeah, you earned your stripes.
I earned my stripes and then after that, that's that's pretty
much when I came became gang affiliated a couple days later.
There's like you all, Hey, what's up?
You trying to get down? You know what I mean?
It was the Zanesville gang at double or whatever.
So. That's so funny that they were
like yo you trying to get down after they just left your ass.

(39:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it wasn't.
It wasn't them. The ones that stayed as the one
who's that who asked me to issue.
I got you all for sure. Yeah.
It wouldn't even have been a second thought if they would
have. But what's crazy, my homie slept
beside me too and I went over there and he pulled up his thing
after it all went down. Like what happened?
Like he asleep. I'm like boy, get out of here.
Like acting like you asleep. But yeah though.

(40:03):
And that was day one. That was day one, but it was
pretty easy after that, you knowwhat I mean?
They respected me after that and.
All yeah, you got that out of the way quick.
Yeah, I mean. Yeah, because you got to do that
and shit three guys in one day. Yes, there was like he'll.
Get. He'll go.
Yeah, 'cause it ain't about if you can fight it, if you will,
you know what I mean, 'cause they want to pick the easiest

(40:25):
shot, but that happened. So I end up doing that bit or
whatever, and then I get out of there.
While we was there, I ain't trying to tell too many prison
stories, but while we was there,this riot happened.
It's pretty funny. It was against the ABS and the
Zanesville dudes or whatever because.

(40:47):
Really. Yeah, because one of we it was
in the lunch line and couple Zanesville dudes cut AB.
The AB got mad and. You like cut them in line?
Yeah. To eat, Yeah.
And so they ended up jumping that AB dude.
And so they they tried to come and jump and then one of the

(41:09):
Zanesville dudes went to jail. I mean, went to jail, went to
the hole, but the other one didn't.
So they tried to come out there and jump him in front of the
dorm. The ABS did the other Zanesville
dude and he beat them both up. So that really pissed them off,
you know what I mean? Oh, yeah.
So. So we're out on the yard and
it's just prison politics. All the Zanesville dudes up

(41:29):
there, all the ABS is over there.
Can you feel it? Oh, listen, it's quiet.
Super quiet. You can definitely feel it in
the air, you know it. So I ended up having to go to
school. So I go to school and I'm in the
school or whatever and because we as politician all day because
man, sometimes when shit like that's going on, you'll sit

(41:51):
there and politic for hours trying to sort shit out when
nothing happened and you know what I mean?
But it did ended up happening. I'm in school and they locked
the doors when it started going down though, so the people who
was in there couldn't get out and or whatever.
But yeah, the ABS was like charge start running out to
Zanesville dudes and they just clashed and.

(42:12):
Got to the yard. Yep, and just got to fight.
Damn. There, there's a couple people
today like my, my homie Morgan, you know what I mean?
If, if he ends up watching this,he knows what's up.
He was there, Dave, all the Zanesville dudes.
I mean, because Zanesville is only this big.
So everybody that was there, they know, they know what
happened. That what's the what's the like,
the policy and procedure as far as staff goes when a riot

(42:35):
happens like something like that.
I'll just come in and spray everything.
Spray. Yeah, spray everybody back to
your cells. You're locking down.
Oh yeah, it's locked down. It's probably locked down for a
couple weeks. All that control movement, SRTS
will probably come in Special response team, Yeah, and all

(42:56):
that, all that stuff for sure. Well, good thing you chose to go
to school that day. Yeah, for sure keep you brought
up, been in it because a lot of people definitely wrote out for
that. But I ended up getting out of
that man, and it wasn't not too long later I caught another
case. Man, what, what, what cases are
you catching? Man, what the hell are you doing

(43:16):
out here? Another gun case.
God damn. Another gun case, OK, My second.
My second case was either a gun case or possession of MDMA.
Wonder. Yeah, I can't remember which one
the second one was. So I caught that case, got out,

(43:40):
wasn't out much longer, caught another case.
All together I got 3 pistol cases, a possession of fentanyl
case, a possession of MDMA case,and a domestic violence case.
And mind you, the domestic violence.
I went to prison for no apparentreason.
Was it like a violated? The DV ended up violating you?
Is that what happened? Well, no.

(44:01):
What ended up happening is a female that I was acquainted
with, I had 2D VS on her already, but at the time I ain't
seen her in like 2 years. She ended up getting married and
everything else and I guess her new husband was beating on her

(44:23):
or whatever. This is the story I got from it
and it was from a pretty good source.
You got to be so when the cops would get there.
So she didn't want to go to jail, she didn't want him going
to jail. So she's like no, I was just mad
and you know, telling the cops that.
So they leave what she does thisa couple times.
They say you do this again, we're labeling you as a nuisance
and locking you up. So she does it again, they get

(44:45):
there so she don't go to jail and he don't go to jail.
She said no, not him. My other baby dad.
Well, that's my third DV. That's my third DV, So I'm
getting 16 months in prison for this.
And I try to fight it. But every witness I said that I
had on my team, they said it wasan unreliable witness because it
was a felon. There was a felon or, or one of

(45:07):
them was my mom. Yeah.
But if they want to use the court, if the courts want to use
a felon as a witness, they can. But if you want to, you can't.
I didn't know that. Yeah, you can't.
It'll be an incredible witness. And the prosecution will roll
with that all day long. All day.
And that's what happened with me.
I've got to cop out. Such bullshit.
Yeah, it goes. It's either go to trial, lose,

(45:29):
get stroked, yeah, or cop out. That is 16.
You go to trial, you're fucked. So you had to do the 16 minutes.
But prior to that you were, you were talking to me about the
third case. I believe you said it was
another gun case. Another gun case.
I got caught with a 44 super redhot Ruger that time.

(45:50):
Just pulled over. No, I was I was with the girl
and this me and her was been beef in the last couple days at
this time or whatever anyway, and my best friend ended up
robbing my brother and I wanted I woke up.
I woke up in a zany rage like 'cause when you.

(46:11):
Were you were you getting deep into drugs at this point?
Like like it sounds? I've heard you say zany multiple
times and I know that that shit I mean.
Yeah, that's the first time. Remember I told you I'd done
cocaine for the first time when I caught the case.
So I'm drinking, I'm doing, I'm drinking heavy, heavy.
I'm, I'm doing Xanaxes whenever I can get a hold of them and I'm

(46:33):
doing cocaine, you know, at the time.
So it's, it's safe to say that like those substances, and you
know, I don't know where you're at with it, but a substance
abuse issue is probably what ledto those charges.
Like, 'cause you, you take away the booze and the drugs and
you're probably not doing half that shit, you know what I'm

(46:54):
saying? 100%, like 100% I can say two
things that led me down that path was for one being misled,
you know what I mean? Being taught that a man is
something that it ain't, you know what I mean?
And and drugs, if you look in prison, 99% of the people in
there is in there for drugs sometype of way.

(47:15):
Even they as high when they did it, they was doing it to get
drugs or they was selling drugs or something.
Can I ask you a question? What's that?
So there's there's this thing that I've noticed between my
time being incarcerated and I actually worked as a CEO for two
years post incarceration. Crazy story, but nonetheless
less. It seems like for whatever

(47:35):
reason, the African Americans don't want it to be known that
they were doing like they're doing Fetty or that they're
doing coke like they want to hide it much more than the
whites. Yeah, well.
What like, why is that? What is the, is it a stigma
thing? Is it like a culture thing like?

(47:55):
It's it's definitely. It's definitely.
Am I off on that? No, you're definitely your own
point. Exactly your own point.
They it's just, I guess they just always looked at it as a
white thing I guess. Like we sell the drugs, we
don't. We don't we don't do well,
cocaine, it's more kind of different a little bit, you know

(48:16):
what I mean with the cocaine, But when it comes to meth and
stuff like that and obviously that's bad for everybody to do,
you know, and and heroin is bad for everybody to do, but
definitely the meth man when it comes to that.
I could say that definitely the OR or fatty.
Yeah, you're you're right. Yeah.
With the fatty, yeah, it's just like that.

(48:36):
I don't know why that is. I don't.
I've always wondered. Yeah, but it is like that
though. You, you're definitely right
about that. It was just like a white thing
to do you. Know yeah it's like a culture
but. I feel like it's changing more
nowadays because more people's on drugs.
Well, it's hitting everyone now.Yeah, it's hitting.
Everyone now. And you can't really hide it.
Yeah, I'm. Sure you can.
There's no way. Let's see, where were we?

(49:01):
You were on your third bid, My third bid.
Tell me about the third bid. Any any crazy stories in there?
And where were you at? OK, my third bid, I was in
Lancaster. Lancaster.
OK, and yes, I got a crazy storyfor you.
Matter of fact, it was the youngbrother of the founder of the

(49:23):
gang I was in. OK.
Yeah, he was there, which I knowhim since we as kids, besides
all this, his mom was my mom's best friend.
Yeah, besides all this. Yeah.
So we're at Lancaster. He ends up coming there and he,
he rides in with this dude from Detroit.
And it's supposed to, he's cool with him.

(49:44):
Well, one day I'm in the dorm and the dude from Detroit and
another dude this in my dorm from Detroit, come in there to
steal the TV from somebody. So I'll go back and tell my
dude, stop hanging out with dude.
He's a thief. You know what I mean?
Because people, man, when they steal, they'll steal from
anybody usually, you know. So I'm like, stop hanging out
with him. He's going to get you in some
bullshit. Even if he ain't stealing your

(50:05):
shade, you're going to have to be around him while he's in
some. Bullshit, you're going to have
his shoes for just even being. There, he didn't listen to me.
So what happened? He set his box up to get kicked.
The dude did, except my dude's boxer to get kicked.
So I just gave dude, I just gavehim something through the fence
because like each dorm in Lancaster got their own fence
and my dorms right here is rightthere.
I gave him something to the fence.

(50:26):
It might have been some food or something.
So when I, when I'm out, I'm outside and I see him come
around like he came outside and he's like walking fast and I'm
like, what's he doing out here? You know what I mean?
Like he just, I just seen to him, you know what I mean?
He's supposed to be inside eating or whatever what I just
gave him. And then he he comes up to me
and lets me know what happened. So I ended up getting him a

(50:46):
knife or whatever to hold. And we we walk around and we try
to, he goes and puts the knife up, comes back and we go try to
find the dude that set it up, Detroit dude or whatever, or any
of the dudes that did it. So we're out on the yard walking
around. So we end up finding a Detroit
dude who did it. I mean, who set it up?
So I ended up smacking him or whatever and he runs and then we

(51:08):
walk on the yard. And this is a majority Columbus
spot. Like Columbus is running it at
this time, like you know what I mean?
And it's me and him from Zanesville.
There might be like 3 more people from Zanesville maybe,
you know. And so we ended up running the
one to one we as going into the dorm to find a dudes who did it
or whatever, but we ended up running, running into one of

(51:31):
them on the way up the steps. So my dude just got that beating
him up, boom, boom, boom, boom boom boom boom.
And then so he goes to the hole.My dude does and for fighting on
the yard and so I'm left by myself so.
Yet again. Yeah, so they're all questioning
me like what's up, what's up? You know, I mean, the whole
Columbus is all questioning me like what's up?
What's your boy like? Even though they was in a wrong

(51:53):
for kicking his box that you know, I mean still like he just
came over here and punched him when I was and they're the
dominant. So they're looking at it like
and we're from little eyes Zanesville like so there wasn't
feeling that for sure. Like.
So I go into the dorm and after I was done talking to them,
because they're talking cash it.Like, yeah, but I'm keeping it

(52:14):
moving. There's like, there's hell of
them, you know? I mean, they're talking cash it,
but I'm not about to sit there and talk shit back.
They're just going to jump the fuck out of me.
So I go into the dorm, man. And I don't know why, but the
whole dorm was empty. I couldn't find nobody I was
cool with in there. And here and here comes all
these Columbus dudes, man. They're coming in the dorm to
get me and I'm like, man, what the fuck?

(52:34):
What the fuck? And I ain't gonna lie, I'm
looking at the desk like man, I'm thinking about checking in,
you know what I mean? Like telling him my fear for my
life, but I'm like, Nah, hell, Nah, like should I?
Nah, Nah, Nah. And then I mean, man, and
there's so many people trying toget in this dorm after me.
They're literally climbing the fence or dorm fence, you know
what I mean? Get in.
No, no, no exaggeration, man, it's crazy.

(52:54):
Like and then this dude that I was kind of cool with, he was
cool with people that I was coolwith, you know what I mean?
And he was a OG Columbus dude that they respected or whatever.
And he had my back that day, man, he saved me.
He came out the blue too. His name was Chaos, you know
what I mean? So if you out there Chaos, I
respect you that day you saved my.

(53:14):
Ass Damn, his nickname was Chaos.
You know that motherfucker? Oh yeah, he was a big dude too.
I mean, he was all that, but they all looked up to him and
they was mad that he that he looked out for me and kept them
off of me like that, you know? I mean because my Bunky was
another OG dude from Columbus and I think he knew that my
monkey would probably be mad if he knew he let that go on.
The politics in prison are crazy, man.

(53:38):
It's crazy. It's off the chain, so that
happened there. Like hearing you say that, that
sometimes you have to politic for 2-3 hours to sort things out
is so wild. It is, but it's the truth.
It is. It's how it is in there.
Like it's, it's how it has to be.
And that's why people so like come out of there so
manipulated, like because people's in there reading the 48

(53:59):
laws of power and all that, trying to just for real trying
to survive. Yeah, good manipulator, you
know, I mean stuff like that. And not only that happened to
people want to come home and be better criminal.
You know what? I.
Mean so, right? And there are a lot of people.
Like, so the whole time I'm in there doing all this stuff, I'm
definitely in there learning stuff.
I'm reading books like The 48 Laws of Power, The Art of
Seduction, The Art of War, Behold the Pale Horse,

(54:23):
biographies to go and stuff likethat.
I'm gaining knowledge, working out heavy and stuff like that as
I'm doing this stuff. Just trying to become a better
criminal for real. Like I was literally going
around asking older guys like for advice on how to be a better
criminal, you know what I mean? I get it, that makes sense that.
Was my goal was to be a better? Criminal and you've done 3

(54:45):
numbers now so. And I really ain't at this time
in my life, I ain't seen nothingthat's better.
So I think this is what life is.I really ain't seen nothing
better. I go on vacations and stuff with
my family on my dad's side, likewhen I was kid and stuff like
that. Like it wasn't all just horrible
like, but. Well, no, but you get to a point
and I know it happened to me where like I remember one day I

(55:07):
was sitting in my cell and I wasjust like, damn.
Like it hit me like a fucking brick wall.
I was like, that's why they build these places for people
like me because I will never getit together and like I'll need a
place to live. I'm inevitably going to fuck up
for sure. And that's why these places
exist, so they can house me. Facts like that's how I felt.

(55:31):
And make money off of you like your cattle.
Yeah. And like, it's fucked up.
It's fucked up. So that takes us to that DV
then. Yeah, Yeah.
That was that was afterwards, yeah.
The DV caught the DV case. How, when you got out, did you

(55:52):
go back to the drugs and the drinking Heavy, Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. When I got out, yeah, I went
back almost instantly. Coming immediately.
Yeah, almost. That's, I mean, that's pretty
normal. Yeah, at the time I didn't feel
like I had a problem. Yeah, you know what I mean?
Yeah. Which physically I didn't, but
mentally I did. You weren't like physically

(56:13):
dependent on it, but yeah, therewas like a mental obsession of
some sort. Yeah.
I don't know. If I think at this time, I'm
dealing with it being institutionalized and all that.
And I always hate it when peopleget they that people get that
term messed up, institutionalized, like they
say, like they act like people just want to go live in prison
and stuff. There's not too many people that
actually want to go to prison. What it is is you can't adjust

(56:34):
your mind to the way a society because you're used to living
that way, because it's a whole different world in there, a
whole different set of. Politics.
You're in survival mode every second of every day, so you're
fucking your brains all fucked up.
I still deal with that to this day.
That's some. That's one of the hardest things
for me to conquer. Man is being in survival mode

(56:55):
all day, every day. I feel my.
It's exhausting. Realize my shoulders is tense.
Like sometimes I'll be so tense when I finally do realize it and
get to relax, I could fall out standing up.
You know what I'd be for real ifI met myself.
Yeah, it's exhausting, dude. It's.
Real exhausting. Like it takes a toll on a
person. It really does.

(57:16):
See you did 16 months for that third DV, is that like a three
strikes you're out type deal? Yeah, it was then.
I don't know if it still is. I think they switched it again
because they switched it a couple times back and forth and
all that. So yeah, I'm dealing with that
would be an institutionalized also.
So now, so now I only got a drugproblem, alcohol problem and all

(57:41):
that. Now I got an institutionalized
problems. So now I got a recovery twice.
I got to recover twice for two different things.
So then that takes us to the next number.
I think that might have been thepossession of the MDMA maybe or
something. But I just kept getting outgoing

(58:01):
back, you know, I mean getting outgoing back my last prison and
my one prison number. Like I said, my brother was my
rock. I didn't want for nothing when I
was in prison. He looked out for me all that.
Well, he ended up going through some things, man.
He got into a car wreck, ended up getting hooked on pills.
Well, at the time is when the pill thing was just coming
around. People really wasn't hip to the

(58:21):
dope sickness and all that. So I got him hip to it and he
quit doing the pills. Well, he ended up getting
cheated on his stuff, you know, and it really broke him down.
So he ended up getting on drugs and stuff, man.
And within a year, like, I mean,and my brother had money, you
hear me? Within a year, like he didn't
have nothing. He was like all the way out

(58:44):
there shooting up all that, you know what I mean?
Within a year. Within a year so that I couldn't
be around my brother for one minute, bro, without breaking
down. You know what I mean, 'cause my
brother's. Hard to watch.
Man, my brother's my everything.Especially my brother that's in
there. You know what I mean?
Like, because we've been througheverything together, you know
what I mean? We went to bed hungry together
at times, you know what I mean? And all that?

(59:05):
We've been through everything together.
Like, so. Yeah.
So where was I at? You were, I think you were
getting to like the turning point like you, you had done,
you know, you keep going in. Yeah.
And then I Oh yeah, OK, my brother with the OK, because I

(59:26):
was thinking about the drug dependency because that's where
I was going with this. So I couldn't be around my
brother not too long. So man, I ended up, I ended up
doing start doing the hard drugs.
Well, when I used to do like cocaine and stuff, like when it
was gone, I didn't care, you know what I mean?
It didn't bother me, but my friends would always geek out
and stuff. So when my brother started

(59:48):
getting high and stuff, I'm like, I'm like, man, this stuff
can't be that bad, you know whatI mean?
Like heroin and stuff, I'm like,because I'm thinking like, it's
like cocaine, you know what I mean?
Right. It's just, it is cocaine.
It's all in your mind, though. It's what I'm thinking about.
I didn't know it was physical, you know what I mean?
Like a cocaine, everything's in your mind, but that's also
physical. Heroin is, you know what I mean?
It's a physical. Thing and I wasn't hinted at so

(01:00:09):
I started just snoring heroin trying to I guess I know what it
sounds crazy Santa trying to getan understanding of what my
brother was doing or trying to numb the pain of what I was
going through. Maybe at the time with my
brother I I don't know what it was.
It was something kind of not general.
I mean, dude, shit's fucked up. Your life is fucked up.
Yeah, like you, everything you just told me, like your life is

(01:00:31):
fucked up. I don't blame you one bit for
looking for a a moment of relief.
Yeah, because that's probably. When I was 10 years old, I
forgot to mention me and my brother found a dead body or
whatever outside, you know what I mean?
So that was that was traumatic. We as outside playing and it was
either me and my brother trippedover him and he was laying there

(01:00:54):
with a knife in him. We went and told my mom like
yeah mom, there's that guy outside there.
She can't believe me. We just thought we had planned
till she realized we were serious and went out there and
was like. He had a knife in him.
Yeah, he was dead. And then years later, me and my
brothers in a hotel with these two girls doing drugs and
drinking and all that, just telling just, you know, I mean,
talking about like asking each other stuff about each other,

(01:01:14):
whatever. So we're like, yeah, who's your
dad? They asked us about her dad.
We're like, yeah, he passed away, you know, I mean, we was
young or whatever, or, and it was like, who's your dad?
And she tells us the story with her dad.
And we're like, we're the 2 little boys that found your dad.
No shit. And she just started bawling
and. Being all hysterical.

(01:01:35):
And stuff like that. But yeah, I start, I got, I got
on the, I got on the the powdered heroin to China or
whatever. And then I thought I was good.
Then one day I woke up without it and you weren't good.
And I realized it and I still didn't believe it until I went
and got some and felt better. Then I was like, aw shit, I'm in

(01:01:57):
trouble. And that's when that's when my
truly drug addiction dependency started.
Well. Because now you're in a place
where it's like you still got to, you got to commit crime, you
got to get money. You how you have to or you can't
function to function. Yep.
So what? What do you choose to do in that

(01:02:18):
situation? You start hitting licks again,
or you or. You.
Throwing the. Towel.
I had to. I had to.
Everything's allegedly, I mean, I shot a dude in broad daylight
over $200 broad daylight, man, for $200.
God damn. That shows you how messed up I

(01:02:39):
was. And the the and I tried to, I
tried to justify it with always.He said he was going to call the
cops on me. That's why I did it.
You know what I mean? But it was for the drug money
because I robbed. I robbed him because he was like
one of my brother's friends whenmy brother was doing good,
making money, selling we well, Idon't know if that's really

(01:03:00):
doing good, but you know, I mean.
Yeah, yeah, he wasn't. Good, as if the situation was
going to get it the. Time He wasn't in jail.
He had some money, yeah. Yeah, so that was one of his
people. So I ended up messaging him on
my brother's phone, acting like I was him to get him because I
was letting him talk all this stuff.
But when they mentioned the cops, it triggered something.
Maybe it did trigger something. I mean, like, oh, you're
supposed to be a straight dude, you're on yummy and call the

(01:03:21):
cops on me for robbing you, like, or whatever.
So it pissed me off. So I got on my brother's phone,
acted like him, like I had stufffor sale.
How'd he come down here? Robbed him When I had the gun on
him he flinched on me so I shot him, kicked him out the car and
kept it moving. Damn.
Yeah. And it for real, I was kicking
in people's door, ripping off everybody, people I loved just

(01:03:43):
burning bridges, man, just just just tunnel, tunnel vision when
it came to that drug. I mean, I didn't.
I really didn't care about nothing, literally.
But getting that next fix. What what happened that what was
the turning point? Like where did you say OK time
to get better or OK time to makedo something different?

(01:04:04):
I'm fucking sick of this. Jail, jail.
I've tried more than once to getclean, you know what I mean?
And ended up slipping up after awhile and stuff.
But man, I've, I've always wanted better, you know what I
mean? I've I've never been a person to

(01:04:25):
just say like just really fuck everything, you know what I
mean? When I'm sober, you know what I
mean? Like I'm curious.
I want more out of life. Like I'm thirsty for knowledge.
I just always naturally wanted better in life man.
I really didn't want that. The drugs didn't make me feel
good. I didn't like the way the drugs

(01:04:45):
made me feel. I like the day would numb me
from the pain and stuff like that, man, but I just, it just
wasn't my thing, man. And one of the big things is my
pride. Like man, I would swallow so
much things and let people walk over me and do things to me that
I would and downgrade me in waysthat I would never do if I was
sober. And that's just I'm a man, you

(01:05:09):
know what I mean? And I'd like that.
Just made me feel less of a man things doing.
It strips you of everything. Strips me of a yeah, it strips
you of everything, your morals, everything.
Sucks dude. And it numbs you.
And like, when you get clean, man, it's crazy because you real
live feel like you're reborn again.
Yeah, when it comes to feelings,you got to learn emotions all

(01:05:30):
over again because you've been numbing it all this.
Time. Well, you're how old now?
You said 36 now. Yeah.
And you went to juvie for the first time.
I'm 37, my bad, I took 37 in July.
Did you for the first time, did you say 10 or 12?
It was like 11 or 12 first time I went to.
Yeah, so I mean, that's like fucking 2 decades, 3 decades,

(01:05:52):
almost 2 1/2 decades of prison and drugs and the street life.
And that's what you that's what you live. 0 you're straight.
I can get some OK. My bad, we're almost.
Done anyway all. Right, my fault.
It's just. Good looking.

(01:06:35):
Bro fucking good ass pawn, are we still on?
Yeah, I never, I never stopped. Oh, shit.
I bet. OK.
But yeah, so pretty much from there, you know, once I realized
this wasn't what what I wanted and everything, and then I had

(01:06:58):
to well, at first when I got cleaning this stuff, I was doing
it for everybody else. Once I had everybody convinced
that I was clean and doing good,I felt like my job was done.
So I went back downhill. Do one, I'll go do one.
Celebrate. You know what I mean?
That type of deal. And so went back downhill again,
ended up getting locked up again.

(01:07:19):
And these are all for like 30 days.
Petty. Shit enough to get me clean and
shit higher power doing for me what I couldn't do for myself.
For real, I ain't going to lie. But then I got out, got clean
again, and then I made the decision finally that I I wanted

(01:07:39):
to do it for me. I was going to do whatever in my
power to, to stay clean and be at peace naturally, you know,
without having to numb out everything.
And I was just tired of just living like that, being numb,

(01:08:00):
not having control over myself, being a slave, man, I just
didn't like this. I don't.
I don't like being a slave to something that controls me.
It's miserable. It is miserable.
Fucking miserable. But it's definitely not worth
it, like everything I said was definitely not to glorify
nothing in no type of way or make it sound.
No, that's just the truth. It is what it is.

(01:08:21):
That's why that's why we have this podcast is so that people
can come on and tell the truth because people don't know what
goes on in prison unless you've been there.
Yeah, Right. So like you're just telling the
truth. It's your experience.
Yeah. And that's fucking how it goes,
unfortunately for a lot of people.
I've seen it on both sides of the fence, dude.
And it's hard to watch. It's hard to watch people lose

(01:08:43):
their lives to facilities or drugs or whatever.
Like it's. It is and it's it's crazy when
it's especially when somebody knows better and they, you know,
because like I said, for the longest man went down, I was
doing was wrong. You know what I mean?
I thought, I thought I was doinggreat because I was, I don't

(01:09:04):
know, I had a name for myself inthe streets.
I thought that was the. Goal, right?
So do you have a sobriety date? Did you get sober?
Do you have a? Sobriety date.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. May 20.
May 21st. May 21st of.
Last year so I got a year and some change.
Nice. Today, yeah.
Congrats. Dude, yeah, all best believe my
mom's happy because, you know, Mom, I lost my older brother.

(01:09:26):
He passed away not too long ago,diabetes, stuff like that.
And then my other brother, he's in prison during 25 years.
So I'm the only one my mom got left, you know what I mean?
So I got to, I got to, I got to step up and be there.
Good on you having over a year and a half because now you've
got some time so the mental obsession to use should be
removed and nothing but up dude.I definitely been in situations

(01:09:51):
that I felt like would break me day.
I made it through easily. You know it gets easier once you
build the confidence and you seethat you can do it.
You know, my big thing is like, for instance, if I have to like,
go to some bullshit party with my coworkers, I make it known.
Like I make it so known like I don't drink.

(01:10:13):
And if that makes you uncomfortable, that's your
fucking problem, flat. Out.
That's not my problem. Like if you have an issue with
me not drinking you need to go take a look at the mirror dog
because you're fucked up like. Yeah, that's.
Crazy. It's it's wild, but
congratulations, dude. I got to be honest, man, with
the story, if you weren't sitting here right and I heard

(01:10:35):
that story, I would have suspected that you wouldn't have
made it. That would have been my guess at
the end of the story. Homeboy didn't make it.
And people always say that my y'all mean like damn I figured
you would be the one doing 25 years not your brother you know
what I mean? Because I was always the wild
one. You fucking got out.
For real. Yeah, I got out, man.
I'm sitting here today. So it's definitely, it's

(01:10:56):
definitely possible. Message for our viewers,
anything you want, anybody that's suffering, anybody that's
been to prison, that's trying toget out of what you were in,
what would you say to him? You just got to do it for you,
like you can't do it for nobody else.
You can't do it for your kids, you can't do it for your mom.

(01:11:16):
None of that. Now can they?
Can they be a thought that helpsyou push forward?
Yes. But you at the end of the day,
you got to do it for you. Everybody's responsible for
their own happiness. So you got to take the, if you
want real happiness, you're going to have to put in that
work. And I believe that happiness is
you can find it through self knowledge and love.

(01:11:41):
Right on. Sure.
Well, thank you for coming on, man.
We really appreciate it. Yeah, it was nice being here.
Good. Thank you.
Yeah, you. Too.