Ep. 80: National Park "Tourons"

Touron (noun): A tourist who is also a moron

Margie is back, and we're rocking one microphone to bring you stories of "tourons" in National Parks. This theme is inspired by the Instagram account @TouronsofYellowstone.

Thank you again so much to Jack, aka @Anomallite, for our new logo! Stay tuned for new merch in our online store sporting the new logo.

You can find Margie @HeyMissMargie on Instagram or Etsy.

Support the show for free by leaving a 5-star review wherever you're listening, or on GoodPods or Podchaser (where we can respond to your comments).

Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Tiktok, check out our website GetOutAlivePodcast.com and join us on Patreon (where you can now follow us for free)!

You can find Ashley @TheAngryOlogist on Twitter

Episode Transcript

(00:15):
Welcome to episode eighty of Ghetto Live, a bi weekly podcast about animal tacks,
why they happen, and how wecan avoid them. I'm your host,
Ashley, and I'm joined by mygood pal Margie. Again, hi,
and this is the third time we'vetried recording this episode. Great,
and we're currently sharing one microphone,so please be nice. If just be

(00:36):
nice, that's it. So ifone of us sounds far away, any
give a point, that's the reasonwhy. Okay, So before we get
into today's episode, I want toacknowledge our brand spank and new logo.
So thank you so much to Jackak Anomalite. I hope I'm pronouncing that
right for creating this logo for us. Jack nail the design right away.

(00:57):
He was so great to work with. I will link his social media is
in the episode description if you'd liketo collaborate with him or just see more
of his stuff. And as isnow customary on this podcast, as a
thank you to all of you whotake a minute to leave us a review,
I read one on each episode.Today's review is from Podchaser, where
you can leave a review and wecan respond to it, which is fun
and it's from longtime listener and friendof the pod Jeremy Montoya, who said,

(01:21):
quote, absolutely love the energy betweenthe hosts. The enthusiasm they have
gets me pumped to learn and honestlylaugh pretty hard. Still so many serious
moments in the attacks they recap,but they do well to give great advice
and reason for why an attack mayhave happened. Been a patron of theirs
since episode two three. Heck it'sworth it. Great listen in my top
three of all time. Thank youso much, Jeremy, and speaking of

(01:45):
thank you to everyone on our patreonas well. So this week's theme is
inspired by the instagram account that hasbeen continuously suggested to me Torons of Yellowstone.
And if you read the title andhad no idea what a touron was,
then you were like me each timethat instagram was recommended to me before
I looked at it because I waslike, I don't know what a tourn

(02:05):
A very unique name it is,so a tourn not very intuitive, but
it's a tourist who is a moron. So as you can imagine, the
instagram is full of people doing dangerousthings at national parks and this is usually
involving getting too close to wildlife.So in the bonus episode we released in
May on Patreon, I talked abouta recent bar attack that occurred in the
Grand Tetons National Park. So I'mnot going to go over that story again.

(02:28):
But Shane, the man attacked inthat instance, was not a torn
by any means, and he didabsolutely everything right. So this episode is
not about that. These are peoplewho broke rules or made poor choices and
paid consequences for doing so. Sobefore we get into a story, and
it's going to be like a collectionof smaller stories and than Margie and I
are going to bounce back and forth. I covered mostly stories in America and

(02:52):
she did mostly outside of America,but they're all at national parks. So
before we get into any of those, let's break down some statistics as to
what is killing people on land managedby the National Park Service in the US.
As of twenty twenty four, thereare four hundred and twenty eight sites
managed by the National Park Service knownas NPS. For short, each year,

(03:12):
there are over three hundred million visitorsbetween all of those sites, and
out of those three hundred million,on average, two hundred and forty three
people die on NPS land each year, so your chances of dying on a
national park are less than one ina million if you are following the rules.
The National Park Service, due toa Foyer request, released seventeen years
worth of data they had on deathsin their parks, which documented nearly four

(03:36):
thousand deaths between twenty seven and twentytwenty three. And backpacker dot com did
some great analyzes to determine the mostcommon causes of death, and they determine
the most dangerous park. So whichone do you want to start with?
Let's go with most common, mostcommon death? Okay, So the most
common cause of death within all nationalparks is drowning. There were eight hundred

(03:57):
and twenty nine deaths due to itin this timeframe, which accounts were twenty
percent of the overall deaths. Manyof these drownings occurred because people on boats
were not wearing life jackets, andthe next highest cause of death at seventeen
percent was motor vehicle crashes, whichI think makes sense. Coming in at
only zero point two percent of theoverall deaths in national parks from two thousand
and seven to twenty twenty three wasincidents with wildlife. This was the lowest

(04:23):
cause of death of everything recorded.So in a national park, you are
more likely to be killed by afalling branch or by being poisoned than by
being killed by wildlife. Which I'mnot sure if that it's comforting at all,
but I feel like it is becausewe talk a lot about animal tax
in this podcast, and it mightmake it seem like they happen more rough
than they do, but they don't. They don't. Yeah, So in
this timeframe, of the nearly fourthousand deaths, only nine were killed by

(04:46):
wildlife, like only nine people.Six of those deaths were due to grizzly
bear attacks, one death was bya mountain goat, one was due to
a copperhead snake, and one wasdue to a great white shark. And
then we've got the most dangerous nationalpark. There have been a few articles
circulating in recent years claiming that theGrand Canyon is the most dangerous park because
that's where the most people die.But this isn't necessarily true if you consider

(05:09):
the huge amounts of visitors that theGrand Canyon gets versus other national parks.
So backpacker dot Com determined that themost dangerous National Park is actually Dannali National
Park in Alaska, and it encompassessix hundred million acres of wilderness, so
on average, Denali only gets abouthalf a million visitors a year, compared
to the Grand Canyons nearly five millionper year. So in the time between

(05:31):
twenty seven and twenty twenty three,one hundred and thirty four people out of
that five million died at the GrandCanyons, which, like isn't really a
lot in that entire timeframe compared toin Denali only around five hundred thousand visitors
a year, they had fifty onedeaths in that timeframe, so on average,
in Denali there are almost ten deathsper one million visitors. The leading

(05:55):
cause of death in Denali was exposure, which can kill you a year round
there due to to its Subarctic climate, and exposure was followed up by deaths
due to falling. However, overall, backpacker dot Com found that more people
in national parks in general died fromheat exposure than extreme colds, which I
think makes sense given like how manywarmer climate national parks there are compared to
colder ones. And because this isan animal attack podcast, only one person

(06:19):
has been killed by a bear inDenali National Park and it was a solo
backpacker in twenty twelve, which Ithink is impressive given that they have every
species of bear there, like everyspecies of bear that is in the United
States, so polar, grizzly,slash, brown, black. And then
interestingly, the next most deadly nationalpark is the US Virgin Islands, but

(06:40):
the highest cause of death was drowning, which I think makes a lot of
sense. Yeah, And as forspecific locations that had the most deaths,
the award goes to Lake Mead NationalRecreation Area on the Nevada Arizona border,
where three hundred and four people diedfrom twenty seven to twenty twenty three,
and just over a third of thosedrowned. And then overall, men made
up eighty percent of the recorded deathswhen gender was recorded, which is crazy,

(07:04):
makes sense, and there were nosignificant findings of age. However,
past age fifty five, deaths weremostly caused by medical issues rather than drowning.
So speaking of, let's start withthe most recent incident. So on
June first of this year, justa week ago from when we're recording this,
and eighty three year old woman fromSouth Carolina was on Stormpoint Trail in

(07:25):
Yellowstone, which is near the northside of Yellowstone Lake. There were not
many details on what happened, butthere was a bison on the trail,
and the Park Service said the bisonwas just defending its space when it charged
at her and goreed her, liftingher a foot off the ground with its
horns. The woman sustained serious injuries, but the nature of the injuries hasn't
been released. She was flown tothe Eastern Idaho Regional Medical Center in Idaho

(07:46):
Falls, and the attack is stillbeing investigated, and no other info about
this woman has been released. ButI did want to start with that story
since it was the most recent andfrom the information that we have does seem
like she was approaching bison in away the time she probably shouldn't have been,
because in general at Yellowstone people arerequired to stay twenty five yards or
twenty three meters away from large animals, which includes bison, moose, elk,

(08:09):
and deer, and then you alsoneed to stay one hundred yards away
or ninety one meters from bears andwolves. And we've mentioned on this podcast
before, especially in our Bison episode, but in Yellowstone, bison injure more
people than any other animal each year, for example, because that woman's attack
was not the first to happen thisyear. On April twenty first, Clarence

(08:31):
Yoder, a forty year old manfrom Idaho, was having a little too
much fun drinking near the seven mileBridge in Yellowstone and thought it would be
a good idea to approach a herdof bison. He approached one bison in
particular and kicked its leg and Icouldn't find any specifics, but he sustained
minor injuries from the bison in theprocess. Witnesses reported this incident to rangers,

(08:54):
and rangers located him in a vehiclejust outside of West Yellowstone, Montana,
where he was arrested along with thewoman driving, who was also under
the influence while driving. Clarence wasbrought to a medical facility for treatment of
his minor injuries, and then hewas brought to a detention center. And
then the next day Clarence and thewoman driving pled not guilty in court.
So this is like an ongoing thingnow because now it's like a court case.

(09:18):
And this was the first incident ofa park visitor being injured by bison
in twenty twenty four. So twentytwenty four has already seen more tax by
bison than twenty twenty three. There'sonly one last year, and we're only
halfway through the year and we're noteven into the busiest season and we've already
had two which is not great.Although June to September it is the bison
breeding season, so they're likely tobe a bit more on edge and aggressive

(09:39):
at this time. So if you'regoing to Yellowstone or being around bison in
general this year, be especially careful, like right now if you're listening as
this episode comes out to September.And also I think just you know,
use caution in general around bison's probablya good call. So handing the mic
to Margie for our next story outsideof the US. Okay. So,

(10:00):
so this one, for me isan example of an ongoing series of unfortunate
tourist and animal interactions, not justspecifically with this but like other parks as
well, that has to do withgenerations of observational learning from the animal.
This is just like not an independentinstance. I'm going to take you to
the monkey forest of Ubud in Bali, Indonesia. So dating back to the

(10:22):
fourteenth century. The Monkey Forest ofUbad has been a pitical piece of history
in Balinese culture. Over twenty fiveacres, it is known as a sacred
place housing spiritual forces and guardian spirits. The monkey Forest is recognized as an
area of conservation. Strong local effortshave been made to promote preserving the area
while supporting responsible tourism and raising awarenessto its cultural and environmental importance. The

(10:43):
forest hosts a variety of statues andactive temples. The forest is also home
to over twelve hundred liontailed macaques.These monkeys are known to be sacred,
symbolizing protection and mischief. Size Wise, they can be up to twenty eight
inches in high and weigh up toalmost forty pounds. So considering this has
been an active area for centuries thathas hosted people year round for ceremonies,

(11:07):
there clearly has been an established relationbetween monkeys and the locals. But this
location has boomed in tourism, resultingin a cesspool of dumb people and smart
primates. The monkeys are smart,and they learned how to trick humans into
getting their belongings, food, water, and whatever else they might be interested
in, which can result in andin parentheses but not limited to damage or

(11:28):
stolen items, or being scratched orbitten by the monkeys. So when entering
the park, there is numerous warningsigns and strict guidelines for people entering the
forest. These rules include, butare not limited to, leaving all items
of value at your accommodation. Forexample, a trending video currently is one
of the monkeys taking a woman's passportfrom her bag, and as she tries

(11:52):
to take it back, the monkeythen proceeds to rip the pages out,
swipe at her, and then retreatsfrom her and just like disappears. So
she lives with the monkeys now right, I mean she probably had to pay
a decent amount of money to geta passport replacement. So other common stolen
items include cameras, phones, jewelry, and sunglasses. So if you must

(12:16):
have a backpack on you or abag on you, it must be zipped
and all straps, keychains and anythingelse is tight and streamlined to the bag.
No food of any kind, wrappedor unwrapped, should not be brought
into the forest. So like asnack for later, a snack you want
to bring to the monkeys, no, but guess what after reading travel blogs,

(12:37):
reviews, and incidant articles, Touristsbring bananas to feed the monkeys all
the time to get photos. Likeit's just a very common thing and people
think that they read it and they'relike, but I'm different. Yeah.
So granted, like when you're touringaround, you're probably bringing a snack or
like a meal for eating like ata later time, but it's clearly said,

(12:58):
like when entering this park that nofood should be on you because they
can smell it and they're gonna know. So. One traveler's blog post that
I really enjoyed shared their story oftheir trip into the monkey forest, sharing
how a person in their party gotjumped by a monkey multiple times, once
for feeding bananas. Sorry going back, different monkeys each time, just not
the same monkey. Okay, it'snot like criminal, No, it was

(13:22):
multiples. So once for feeding bananasto one monkey. So they they went
and bought bananas, put them intheir bag and brought them in and then
they were like, great, let'stake a photo and feed it to them,
only to have another monkey come outof nowhere behind them to take that
banana. So they got jumped asecond time when a monkey just walked on
up to them, took their waterbottle, unscrewed the cap and took a

(13:43):
swig of the water. Yep,and then guess what, only to have
another monkey come up take the bottleand it just threw it on the ground.
Wow. Yeah, so cool.Thirdly, they couldn't understand why the
monkeys were following them. They hadno idea. So the park says asked
if they were carrying anything in theirpockets, like food, because it clearly

(14:03):
seemed like they were carrying food,and they were like, no, we
don't have any food on us becausewe already expensed all the bananas to them
earlier, but we're not going totell you that. Also, why would
you put this in your travel blog? And they were like, clearly,
we have no food on us.Oh, guess what. Someone had tic
TACs in their pocket, so theyknew this person had food on them.
There were countless accounts of people losingtheir items to the monkeys because they're smart

(14:26):
and they know exactly how to playpeople, and they aren't afraid at this
point. They aren't afraid into coaxingyou in with their calm demeanor, only
to have you come in for aphoto giving them the perfect opportunity to come
in and take whatever you may havethat is accessible for them. Also,
I can't imagine like forty pounds ofsomething jumping on you to take something from
you. And depending on the day, depending on the monkey, the monkey

(14:50):
could scratch you or bite you.I could not find any solid numbers,
but it seemed like bites and scratchesfrom the monkeys are regular occurrences in the
forest. The monkeys are regularly vaccinatedfor rabies, but their bites and scratches
can carry a variety of other diseasesas well. So there are first aid
stations throughout the forest as well,and it's encouraged that people seek medical attention

(15:11):
for any bites or scratches that breaks. Again, so the park is twenty
five acres, so the park attendantscannot be greeting every person that enters the
forest telling them all the rules andregulations on how to properly interact with the
monkeys, and there's no way forthem to monitor each and every interaction that
people have with them, so likethey're not going to handhold you and be

(15:31):
like, hey, why do youhave the banana? So this situation and
one similar have sparked a lot ofcontroversy concerning animal welfare and tourism. Quote
from Bali's Sun. These kind ofnegative interactions with monkeys are just part of
the reason why World Animal Protection saysthat there are no ethical animal tourism venues
in Bali and Lombak. Interactions withwildlife and domesticated animals at tourism facilities in

(15:54):
Bali and Lombok all fall short ofthe high welfare standards. Captive wild animals
need to be healthy. So basically, like the quote that you just said
from the Bali Sun is saying that, like there's no like the country doesn't
do a very good job of promotinglike ethical wildlife tourism. Yes, okay,
cool, well not cool but notcool. But like it's kind of

(16:15):
like a gamble of getting the tourismmoney and having it as a tourism spot,
and then if they up rules andregulations, it'll probably lessen tourists coming
in. But it's also like anactive area for ceremonies and practices, so
it's not only like a public spaceused by the locals, but it's also
a tourism space. Yeah, becauseyeah, you do want that tourism money.

(16:37):
I get that. Oof. Allright, back to America for a
second. Let's do a little callbackto our last episode with doctor Emily Taylor
on Rattlesnakes. So I will startwith a story written by the victim,
and despite them listing that they hadbeen backpacking in Yosemite for twenty two years,
I think it'll become very clear wherethey went wrong. I Also,

(17:00):
I want to preface that I couldnot find the name of this person writing
this, but this story is fromtheir website, which is all about tourism
in Yosemite. It hasn't been updatedsince like twenty fourteen, so it is
not active anymore. But this incidenttook place on July third, two thousand,
in Little Yosemite Valley campground. Wehad just returned from the hike a
half Dome and were preparing for dinnerwhen we heard murmurs of a rattlesnake curled

(17:21):
up quote over there. Curious,we went to look and saw a four
foot western rattlesnake curled up right inthe middle of the heavy traffic area in
the campground. This snake definitely neededto be moved because there were many children
around in neophyte adults I have noidea what that means, and it was
lying in a high traffic area betweenthe fire pits and the main body of
campsites. I proceeded to try toherd it out of the area. It

(17:45):
did not want to cooperate, soI made a decision to try and catch
it and move it to an unpopulatedarea. Now, having caught many rattlesnakes
when I lived in Texas, Ihad no fear, but I did not
have my normal snake hand tools,so I had to improvise. I found
a long, semi stout pine branchwith a split end, and then went

(18:06):
and found the suspect critter there.He was, sure enough a four foot
western rattlesnake. He was not ina defensive mode, appeared not to be
aroused, so I first attempted toherd him out of the area once again.
All he wanted to do is moveslightly and curl up again, apparently
wanting nothing except to be left alone. Honestly relatable and also a sign that

(18:27):
you should leave alone. This wasnot possible inasmuch as someone was definitely going
to step on the beast if Ileft it in the area, so I
decided to go inhead and catch him, lift him from the ground, and
carry him deeper into the adjoining forest. He was not moving quickly and actually
seemed lethargic, so I felt confidentpinning his head against the ground and proceeded

(18:48):
to move with my left hand tograp just behind his head, gain a
secure grip, and lift the restof his body with my free hand.
This is where the problem started,so I'm like, at least the writer's
there's a little self whar. Younever approach a pit viper from either the
left or the right, as theyhave heat sensing pits just below into the
front of each eye that detects thewarmth of a small furry mammal such as

(19:10):
a mouse, rat, or smallrabbit. Instinctively, they will strike at
any object from which they sense bodyheat. As my hand was radiating just
such heat, the snake whipped aroundvery quickly and bit me on the left
index finger with one fang. Iimmediately began to suck the poison from the
wound. I sucked as hard asI could for an extended period of time

(19:32):
as I could. In the firstten minutes, I felt as though I
got a good portion of the poisonout as my mouth began to numb,
and I felt a lightheadedness that produceda tingling feeling all over my scalp.
Unfortunately, and this was the mistake, he says, as if it was
not a mistake the entire time,I proceeded to become angry and killed the

(19:52):
snake with a hard twist on thepinning stick, thus decapitating it. I
buried the head and it can stillbite. For several minutes after death,
I did not feel any pain,except for the minor pain of the fang
prick, for about ten minutes.At about fifteen minutes, I began to
feel soreness in the finger and swellingbegan. I proceeded to my campsite and
informed my backpacking buddy, Bob Larson, of the accident. He thought I

(20:15):
should get help from the ranger,but I did not feel the bite was
that bad, and hoping I receiveda dry bite non venimation, I opted
for cleaning the site, continuing suctionwith my snake bitkit, and taking etcedron
for the pain. As luck wouldhave it, and right about the time
I was beginning to reconsider my decision, a park ranger came by and we
told him what happened. He immediatelyradioed for the helicopter to take me out

(20:40):
of the back country, and wethen met a helicopter in Yosemite Valley that
would take me to a hospital inModesto. By the time I got to
Modesto, about eighty minutes after thebite, my hand was in severe pain
and the swelling had spread to myentire hand. The medical personnel began to
stick needles in me literally left andright. I had three ivs, one
for saline, one for antibiotics,one four snake bite venom or anti venom.

(21:03):
I received twenty vials of anti venom, thus cleaning them out of all
they had, and also received massivedoses of antibiotics. At about two hours
after the bite, the pain wasbeginning to be unbearable. I asked for
pain medication. They gave me morphineand vicot in, with very little effect.
I slept very little that night,what with three ivs and a throbbing,
very painful hand that had to bepositioned in an upright position to reduce

(21:26):
blood flow to the hand, thusreducing swelling pressure slightly. By midnight,
my hand was swelling to the sizeof a soft ball. And the pain
was very pronounced. I came closeto having to have my hand debrided,
which is split open to relieve pressureand allowed blood flow to the tip of
my finger. For the next fournights, I slept no more than forty
five minutes at a stretch and experiencedconstant, extreme pain, with the morphine

(21:48):
and vicodin only taking the edge off. I spent four days in the hospital,
and after being released, I washome with a fever of one hundred
and one degrees for two weeks.After the swelling wind down, at about
six days, I experienced pain inall my joints. I could not lift
a glass of water, brush myteeth, or any other common bodily function.
This lasted about two days. Alltold, I was bedridden for eighteen

(22:11):
days straight and it was almost thirtydays until I could return to work.
Not fun, you know. Topreface this story with like I've been hiking
for twenty two years and then tonot only try to grab a venomous snake,
but then to suck the venom outand then also like decapitate the snake
just goes to show that you hadno idea what you were doing. Yep,

(22:33):
Like proceeding, just like, whatwas the point of killing what was
the point of even trying to moveit at that point? Yeah, I
mean his whole point was like,ooh, it's gonna bite somebody. Then
he was like, let me touchit. So I definitely bite somebody and
then kill it, so out ofanger because he was mad that it did
the thing that he was afraid itwas gonna do if anyone got near it.
Yeah, so ri ip so that. Yeah, I uh, I
was speechless as well, because,yeah, talk about a toron. I

(22:56):
don't care if you're even like alocal to the area. So the park's
info page about rattlesnakes advises people notto touch the snakes obviously, and if
you encounter a snake in a campsite, call a ranger instead of trying to
handle it yourself. I don't carewhat take what snakes you held in Texas,
just call somebody. And then intwenty twenty, there were two rattlesnake

(23:17):
bites in Yosemite National Park as well, within the span of three days,
but the more dramatic of the twowas as follows. On August twenty sixth,
twenty twenty, around two thirty pm, an unnamed man in his mid
thirties and his wife were fishing barefootin the Grand Canyon of the Too Loam.
That's probably not how you pronounce thename of that river. Anyways.

(23:37):
As he was fishing barefoot, thisman stepped on a rock, causing the
rock to shift, and a rattlesnakethat had been under the rock struck out
and bit his left foot. Yosemiteis home to only one rattlesnake, the
Northern Pacific rattlesnake, which its scientificname is Crotalus oreganus, and this species
typically eats ground squirrels, which isa pretty big thing. God, yeah,

(24:00):
it's a big snack. It isa big snack, and they can
be found in elevations up to ninethousand feet. As is the case with
most snakes, they are most commonlyfound near rocks, logs, and woodpiles.
This couple had been backpacking, soafter the husband was bitten, they
tried to hike out together, butvery quickly they realized the man was in
no condition to hike, so hiswife had to leave him to go find

(24:22):
help. But before she left,she pinned her husband's location on her phone
so that she would have coordinates,which is good. That's so smart.
Yeah, very smart. So atsome point one of them, and I'm
assuming it's the wife, ran intoanother hiker who decided to go back and
stay with the husband. That's verynice. Meanwhile, his wife hiked alone,
hiking through the night and only stoppingto take quick nap when she was

(24:45):
exhausted. She continued on in themorning. So you figure he was bitten
at two. So she just startshiking and does not stop literally all night
to try to find help. Andshe continued on after like a quick nap,
on until the morning around eight fiftyam on the twenty seventh, when
she finally found another hiker who hadan emergency satellite device. That is over

(25:06):
sixteen hours of pure hiking. Yeah, after her husband was bitten. So
he was sitting there for sixteen hoursafter being bitten by a rattlesnake. Oh
my gosh. So the wife providedher husband's last known coordinates and a thorough
description of what had happened. TheCalifornia Highway Patrol deployed a helicopter to find
the man and attached one of theircrew members to a hoist to lower them
down to him. The crew membersecured themselves and the injured man to a

(25:29):
harness and they were airlifted by thehelicopter to Yosemite's HELLI Base at Crane Flat,
and then he was taken into anambulance and stabilized, and then he
was once again airlifted to a hospitalin Modesto. He received two doses of
anti venom and was released from thehospital a little over a week after the
bike, which compared to the firststory, I think is like pretty decent
considering he was left for that long. Yeah. Absolutely, Now I included

(25:52):
the story in this theme only becauselast week with doctor Taylor we talked about
wearing secure and tall footwear when inrattlesnake country to aid these kinds of situations.
But I'm sure as experienced backpackers whowere fishing rattlesnakes probably weren't on their
mind at the time. So it'sjust kind of like a carelessness thing.
But I don't necessarily fault that.I wouldn't exactly call them a toron,
but I just thought it was agood example. Yeah, like I don't

(26:15):
want to say, like a freakaccident, but it was like they were
being very aware, but also atthe same time, it can happen anywhere.
Yeah. Also, there is norecorded death in Yosemite from rattlesnakes,
and these Northern Pacific rattlesnakes are knownto be pretty docile as far as rattlesnakes
go, so they don't usually posea major threat to hikers. Let's say
about rattlesnakes before we get into ournext story. Let's take a quick ad
break, all right, So Margie, back to you, back to out

(26:38):
of the states. Out of theStates. So this specific incident happened in
twenty eighteen. But people feeding thingsto animals when they absolutely shouldn't be is
something that I wish would just goaway, but it probably not we will.
So that brings me to this gemof a headline. Officials warn Taurus
not to feed kangaroos fast food afterattacks. Okay, here we go.

(27:00):
So anyone in Australia is it stillhappening? Please confirm? So during this
time in morrisse At, Australia,is city, a tad north of Sydney,
a number of reported incidents of kangaroo'sattacking people were on the rise,
one of them being a man beingattacked and needing seventeen stitches on his face,
another with a man having a verydeep gash on his stomach, and

(27:21):
multiple people being scratched on their faceas well. What was happening for these
people to get these injuries, youmight ask, Well, this quote put
it perfectly for me. Despite anumber of warning signs being placed throughout the
area, people still come in drovesand feed the kangaroos processed foods. They're
addicted to fast food, and they'reattacking tourists who offer them chips McDonald's,

(27:44):
KFC, and they tried to takeselfies with them, so that was it
on the kangaroos, like they werejust like please stop. That makes me
wonder, like do you think Americansare so aggressive because we're constantly eating fast
food? I don't know. Ifeel like there's a study that could be
done there of like feeding fast foodto animals even were I don't know,
that's crazy. Why would you whoin your right mind would be like do

(28:06):
you think a kangaroo with like abig mac like that would never even cross
my mind? But I guess we'renot idiot Taurus, So I'm just imagining
like somebody getting like a KFC familybucket and like rolling up to them and
being like, hey, guys,like for a selfie, would you like
a KFC bucket? And that's assuminglike these people obviously don't know what kangaroos
eat. Like It's like kangaroos arenormally out there like killing chicken the fitch,

(28:27):
they eat leaves. I just thisis yeah. Oh god, So
on the one hand, not onlyare you feeding them, but you're feeding
them incorrect things. Yeah. Anyways, so I know I shouldn't think too
hard about it because obviously the peopledon't have a lot of brain cells going
between them. But anyways, sosorry, here's a visual for you a
kangaroo with a KFC Family bucket inits pouch. Oh my god, the

(28:51):
perfect buet. It's the perfect placeto store it. You just read it.
Oh my god. Oh we're notpromoting this. We are not promoting
this. No, but like,wouldn't it be I think a little funny.
This is the role that Nick Playttused to play on this podcast.
Now would somehow become the all right, anyways, Margie little more about Australia
Realia. Another Australian story on GurryIsland, also known as Fraser island.

(29:14):
There has been a recent uptick indingo attacks on tourists, which is worrying
park rangers to think they are nolonger scared of human interactions and that tourist
behavior is escalating their aggression. GurrayIsland is the largest sand island in the
world, spanning over seventy six miles, and it is home to about two
hundred wild dingoes. It is aWorld Heritage Site. In the last twenty

(29:36):
years or so, tourism has boomedon this island and the dingoes have become
increasingly comfortable with human interaction. Visitorsare told not to leave food out,
not to approach the dingoes, notto roam the island alone, not to
go for a run, and tonot leave children unattended. There are strict
roles prohibiting feeding the animals and basicallyjust staying out of their way and not
to approach them. Dingoes create anauthentic Australian experience that many tour as sekh

(30:00):
but unfortunately a lot of people's actionshave begun to tarnish the local fauna of
the island. From a long timeranger quote, in the past, they
the dingoes would never approach you.This tourist behavior includes, but not limited
to, the absolute fucking audacity that'sthe technical term for me to walk right
on up to them, hand feedthem, leaving food out unattended, taking

(30:22):
selfies with them, and completely disregardingthe signage and brochures that encourage dingo safety
throughout the island. These attacks includebites to a seven year old boy and
a forty two year old woman.A woman being severely attacked by four dingoes
after she went out for a jogon the beach. A ten year old
boy who was dragged under the water, so the dingo dragged him into the

(30:45):
water, only to be saved byhis twelve year old sister. Well,
the boy was treated for puncture woundsand bruisy on his collarbone, shoulder,
and arm. The dingo that attackedthe boy was euthanized. Yeah. Another
incident was of a sunbathing French touristwho was being circled by a dingo.
So granted, she was like layingon her stomach sunbathing, not paying attention

(31:08):
to her surroundings, so I wouldsay, not really dumb, just she
was on the beach sunbathing and didn'tthink they were going to do this,
but the dingo circled her and thenthe dingo then bit her on the butt,
resulting in her jumping up and screamingand other beach goers chasing the dingo
away. I was a bit confusedbecause this was caught on video, So

(31:32):
why didn't anybody like be like,hey, note that it was circling her
and kind of like shoe them away. But whatever. Unfortunately, that dingo
was also euthanized. So additionally,in the last year, two women were
fined two three hundred dollars for takingselfies with the dingoes, like going right
on up to them. Animal behavioralistBradley Smith blames visitors in search of the

(31:53):
perfect social media shot for changes inthe animal's behavior. We don't have a
dingo problem on the island. Wehave a people problem, he says.
If you want to go for arun on the beach, go to the
Gold Coast, if you want togo to Africa or the Rocky Mountains,
you respect the fact that you're aroundwildlife that can kill you. Continuing this
quote, that might be a benignincident for you, but that's setting the
scene for the future. It's likea death sentence for the dingoes when you

(32:15):
start feeding them. Island rangers havenoticed a bride and reckless behavior since COVID,
where before a lot of people cameto visit resorts and go on like
guided tours, whereas now a lotmore people are free roaming, camping and
exploring the island unmonitored. There's alsofour wheeling tours that allow people to drink
while there's so that's a great combination. Rangers have pointed out that rarely do

(32:37):
the tours disclose rules around the dingoes, so this risks feeding the dingoes and
giving more opportunities for people to interactwith the dingoes in ways that could be
risky. So quote from one parkranger, I've actually booked somebody for feeding.
Once ticket in their hand. Theylooked at me fair in the eye
and went it was worth it,And the park ranger responded, what do
you do with that? They paidfor the experience that they wanted with a

(33:00):
dingo at the expense of the dingo. So they've been tossing around the idea
to ban people from the island implementinga three strike system. Cheryl Rylan from
the Save Fraser Island dingos says thegovernment should consider capping tourist numbers during peak
holiday periods to keep both dingos andtourists safe. In response to the attack,
the alarming comfortability the dingos have beendisplaying. They have places like fenced

(33:22):
off and beaches that are fenced offnow and camping areas that are completely fenced
off to keep both human and dingoesseparate. The government is very much not
wanting to do a cull of theanimals. Last time was in two thousand
and one in response to a nineyear old being killed. Twenty dingoes were
killed at random, but the recentattack resulted in two euthanizations. The government
responded with We're not in the businessof destroying animals. We're in the business

(33:44):
of conserving wildlife and looking after theirhabitat well. I mean, wouldn't you
say that conserving is also protecting thedingoes from people's ignorance. Absolutely, yeah,
yeah, So we have a twopart episode on dingos and the very
famous like a Dingo Ate My Babycase and we get and more into dingoes
in Australia and like their history andstuff. To put myself in the headspace

(34:05):
of a stupid tourist if you gothere and you're not from there or have
no familiarity with dingoes, you probablywould just see them as a dog.
Yes. There was also a quoteof like how people wanted to feed them
because they look emaciated, and theywere like, oh, they're starving,
I should feed it something. Therangers were like, no, they are
eating just fine. Well they're onthe Yeah, they're on the coast.
There's likely plenty of natural food forthem. And also wild animals aren't supposed

(34:30):
to like be full like your dog. I mean, your dog isn't supposed
to be fat either, but likeit's okay to see in animal's ribs sometimes
it doesn't mean that they're dying.There's I think a bigger conversation we had
about like how much wildlife suffers.I mean, obviously wild life suffers from
people all the time, but howmuch wildlife suffers for the sake of social
media? You know, Yeah,sad. It is sad, especially because

(34:51):
dingoes are already so prosecuted in Australia, and like it seems like they're kind
of already pushed to these smaller areasand they're continually being pushed to life and
less numbers because people are so stupid. Yeah, I was also thinking that
there was two hundred on this island, and I was thinking back to like
one hundred and forty at its peakthe Red Wolves. Yeah, and how
then it like dwindled down and they'rereally they're really trying not to do a

(35:15):
call of the dingoes, as theyshouldn't. Yeah, that's a tough one.
That is a tough situation. ButI think that probably capping the numbers
of tourists or having more rangers tomonitor probably would be the solution. Yeah.
Yeah, oh boy. All right, let me and my last story
back to people legitimately being Torons forme and ending with a story not in

(35:36):
the US. Yeah. So,as we know in this podcast, some
of the most serious bear attacks nationalparks usually result from running into a mother
bear with cubs or a bear beingpredatory. But this one is not from
America's national parks. It's from Romania. And this is a story I posted
on our Facebook page. When ithappened. Seventy two year old Moira Gallagher,
a resident of Scotland, was goingon a ride through the Carpathia Mountains

(36:00):
in Romania with a friend. Itwas April of this year, so twenty
twenty four. The pair were inthe car and saw a mother European brown
bear and a cub and stopped totake pictures, but they remained in their
car. So they're on a windyrode up the mountain, saw a bear,
stopped. Okay, so they tookthe picture. Then the bear left
the car side because the bear approachedthe car, so Moira realized that her

(36:22):
friend might have got a picture,but she didn't get a great picture,
so they went back towards the bearto get another one in their car.
Okay, this is all in thecar, so I'll get them I guess
that much credit. However, Istopped giving them credit because they rolled down
the window, so the bear approachedtheir car rolled down window. Couldn't you
also just I don't know, hottip. Couldn't you just send that good

(36:43):
photo to your friend and be like, yeah, I'll send you the photo
that I took. That literally didnot cross my mind. Great, Okay,
that's a great point. Yes,you're absolutely right. More brain cells
had been used. Yeah, Sowhat happened was they rolled down the window
and the mother bear approached them.And I'm not even joking. The women
claim aimed that they thought the bearwanted to be their friend. So with

(37:04):
that mind, the bear climbed intothe car and bit Moira on the arm.
Thankfully for her, she was wearinga thick jacket, so the bear
a bit more of the jacket thanher arm. But still Moira and her
friend somehow were able to get thisbear out of the car. European brown
bears, still large, managed toget her out of the car and get
away and go to a medical centerwhere Moiro is seen by a doctor.

(37:28):
But and she was fine. Butthese women legitimately thought that what went wrong
was that when they were rolling downthe window and near the bear, Moira's
friend was talking about the fact thatshe wanted to get food soon, and
they thought that them talking about foodmade the bear hungry and made the bear
want to eat them. This makessense, so anyways, what I really

(37:52):
think is going on here is thatthese bears are probably fed by tourists through
car windows, and they're used togetting hares. But these women thought that
they could just roll down the windowand like probably pet a wild bear or
get like a very close up orselfie or something with them. Romania has
the largest population of European brown bearsand we do have an episode from a

(38:12):
death in Romania cost by one ofthese bears, so they are obviously as
much of a danger there as thegrizzlies here in the US are. And
I know that you have a bearstory that you want to touch on,
and then I'll end with a littlesomething some O. Yeah, quite similar
to that actually, So this onetakes place in Battling Wildlife Park in Beijing,

(38:32):
China. This is a drive throughpark of over six thousand acres hosting
lions, giraffes, pandas, monkeys, tigers, and bears. Hold up,
what, I'm sorry they have allof these species running around together.
Yes, Oh my god, Okay, sorry, that's insane. I'm sorry

(38:57):
they have pandas endangered pandas will Iwill elaborate a little bit more because I
just got so mad so fast.I probably should not have said yes so
quickly. I'm a people pleaser.I'm so sorry. So before I go
fully into this, I think thisshines a light onto the topic of not
only for people to be aware ofendangering behavior when it comes to interacting with
animals, but also the awareness tosupport places that treat animals well so that

(39:22):
they do not feel threatened or inthe position where they need to attack.
There are a lot of beautiful placesin the world to go and visit,
all of which host some amazing animals. Visiting these places give you, the
tourist, the opportunity and the privilegeto interact with the local animals. I
implore you, if you go traveling, whether it be twenty miles down the
road or two thousand miles across theglobe, please do your research for reputable

(39:44):
places that care for the well beingof these creatures and their habitat. According
to so many reviews on trip Advisor, the park isn't great, and I
feel like you and I would justscreamcry the entire time, So I am
disclaimering that. So from what Icould gather, it is a hybrid of
a drive through park with free roaminganimals along with animals in not so great

(40:07):
enclosures. Reviewers noted of animals lookingmalnourished, being honked at and chased at
by tourists and vehicles, people completelydisregarding rules, and the overall consensus from
the reviews was everyone severely regretted goingand it was awful. So quote from
the Beijing Tourist website says that thepark is famous for quote raising fierce animals

(40:29):
in large groups and open areas,and that it has ten thousand wild animals,
including brown bears, Malayan sun bears, leopards, and wild wolves.
So I just kept finding more andmore what they were hosting. In the
drive through section of the park,visitors are advised with signage and park rangers
to stay in their vehicle and notroll down windows at any point, and

(40:50):
not to feed the wildlife. Sostep by step, what I just said
to you is exactly what this guydid in twenty seventeen. So two friends
were in a car going through thepark, and it is just so wrong
on so many levels. But sincethey saw other people doing it without incident,
they thought they too could roll downtheir window and feed the bear.

(41:10):
They said that they rolled down theirwindows to throw food at the bear and
record the interaction. What looks liketo be an Asian black bear from a
screen grab I saw. The Asianblack bears can be up to six feet
tall and up to two hundred andfifty pounds. The bear lunges through the
window after they tried to roll upthe window. The weight of the bear
prevents the window from closing. Thebear bit the man's shoulder, resulting in

(41:35):
puncture wounds. On CCTV footage,park rangers are clearly telling them to close
their window before the attack. Theguy one hundred percent completely admitted to being
at fault. Yeah, this incidentresulted in more gated off areas, creating
a barrier between roadway and enclosure,and an increased amount of surveillance. So,
but in the previous year, intwenty sixteen, literally a year before

(42:00):
or two women were visiting the parkwhen one of them got out of the
car. This is all on videofootage, by the way, claiming she
thought she was in a safe zone. I literally don't know how you would
feel safe around that many animals andthat many predators. I don't know,
So so she thought she was ina safe zone. But from what I
could gather is that the safe zonesare clearly labeled and like there is an

(42:22):
obscene amount of signage and surveillance.The woman gets out of the passenger side
and goes over to the driver's side. The driver gets out and the woman,
who had been walking over a Bengaltiger approaches from behind and grabs her
and takes her off screen. Thesecond woman, the driver runs to aid

(42:46):
the situation. You do not seethis. The woman who is dragged away
was injured, but unfortunately, thesecond woman was malt to death by the
tiger. What yeah, uh wait, I think I've seen this video and
Reddit. Someone sent this to meand I remember watching it and being like,
oh, this must be like inIndia or something where there are tigers.

(43:07):
I didn't, but I think Iread through the comments and it was
like, oh no, this islike a wild life park in China,
because I remember watching and I thinklike they opened like the back door of
their car or something, but theywere surrounded by like thick trees. And
yeah, the tigers comes out ofabsolutely nowhere. It is bigger than the
woman. It is so large.But I didn't realize that the second woman
got killed. That's crazy. Idid not watch the video. So they

(43:30):
claimed they thought that they were ina safe zone of the park and that
it was okay to get out oftheir car. The woman who survived.
In a recent article I could findis suing the park for negligence, specifically
saying that the park did not doenough to handle the situation like this and
lack the proper signage in communication tovisitors for their safety and others. Some
signs in the park read cherish yourlife, never get out of your car.

(43:52):
You know it's funny, well notfunny. I just had a listener
from South Africa reach Out and it'sa very similar conversation she had where she
was like, you know, herein South Africa, if you are in
one of our national parks, you'renot supposed to get out of the vehicle
for exact reasons like that where alion or a leopard or like literally anything
can come grab you. And sheasked me, like, I've never been

(44:14):
to America, you know, I'vealways wanted to go, but I always
see all of you like outside ofyour cars, like how can you do
that? And I guess I've neverrealized that, Like there is a cultural
difference between all of our national parks. Like just because national parks here in
America, you know, it's landfor all of us. We can hike
on it, you can camp.That is not the case in other places
in the world. So like,yeah, in South Africa, as an

(44:36):
American tourist, it might not.I mean, I'm sure people will tell
you and there's probably signs like don'tget out of the car, but like
it might not occur to you tonot get out of the car and walk
around because that's what we're used todoing. And I wasn't gonna get fully
into it, but I did finda story where there was an American woman
who was in a national park inAfrica and she was in a passenger seat.

(44:57):
Her tourist guide had the windows down, and in that park there were
strict rules against not having the windowsdown, and a lion jumped through the
window and killed her. So like, follow the rules, And I wanted
to end on a story where thereis I guess, like a little bit
of justice, because it feels likein a lot of these stories, people
do stupid things, and I meanthey might pay with their lives, but

(45:19):
it feels like a lot of timesthe animals are the ones suffering. And
I mean the animal in this onedidn't suffer like a lot, but still
was very stressed out. But thewoman got her come up. And some
of you may remember the video andpictures that came out in the spring of
twenty twenty one of a woman approachinga mother grizzly and her cubs and Yellowstone
to take some pictures. It wasMay tenth by the Roaring Mountain parking lot

(45:39):
and a group of tourists spotted abear and her cubs and everyone backed off,
all except for twenty five year oldSamantha Daring from Illinois. Instead,
she stood her ground to take morepictures. As I mentioned up top,
in Yellowstone you need to stay onehundred yards from grizzlies and wolves. This
girl was so clear that the mothergrizzly bluff charged her like got within feet

(46:04):
of her, and that was theonly thing that got Samantha to walk away,
and she just walked away. SamanthaSamantha, but thankfully because other tourists
were watching and were shocked by herbehavior. They took pictures and videos and
shared with park staff, who sharedon social media and hopes that someone could
identify her, and of course theydid so. As of October twenty twenty

(46:25):
one, she was actually sent tojail for approaching wildlife and she pled guilty,
so it was pretty quick and done. She's banned from the park for
a year, so I guess intheory that was twenty twenty one, so
she can go back now. Butwe'll see, and she had to pay
a one thousand dollar fine and onethousand dollars to a wildlife protection fund,
which I thought was a cool thingfor the judge to throw in. I
like that. Yeah. The actingWyoming US Attorney Bob Murray said her actions

(46:51):
were quote absolutely foolish, and said, quote the park is not a zoo
where animals can be viewed within thesafety of a fenced enclosure. They roamed
freely in their natural house and whenthreatened will react accordingly, he said,
adding that quote pure luck is whyDaring is a criminal defendant and not a
maled tourist. End quote. AndI thought that was a good place for
us to end in, a goodsentiment to end on that if you follow

(47:15):
the rules and don't approach wildlife,you'll probably you'll probably be okay. Yeah,
be safe. Yeah. Also,if you're going to a national park,
kind of like Margy was saying,like, if you have the privilege
to go travel somewhere, look itup. Look up the safety regulations,
look up the guidelines, look uphow to contact help if you need it.
My god, Yeah, tell peoplewhere you're going. If you're going

(47:35):
alone, what are their hot tips? Bring proper food and water, Bring
proper clothing, bring oh my god, please bring proper footwear. Yeah,
that's a good A friend of thepod another pod off the Trails podcast recently
and they're local to us. They'reNew Hampshire Masters That's what's up, ladies.
So they recently posted thing on Instagramasking like, longtime hikers, what's
your best piece of advice? Andmy thing was, like, know the

(47:59):
wildlife that's around to because I thinkin some of the stories we talked about,
especially the one with the rattlesnak,but the guy's foot, that's a
concern and that might mean that youjust can't go barefoot there, and that's
just a risk you're taking. Yeah, So if you're about to travel this
summer and you're about to go somewhere, I first of all hope you have
so much fun, but also pleaseplease look up the wildlife around you,
be sure of safety regulations, knowwho to contact, and have emergency numbers

(48:22):
just in case something goes wrong oryou see something that is wrong I don't
know. Also to like know theenvironment that you're going into and like know
the terrain that you're going to bewalking on. Know the temperatures that you're
going to be going through. Havewater. Have so much water, God,
please have so much water so youcan cut this out. But like
there's some type of like White MountainNational Forest. I'm not gonna say shit
posting, but it's like alerts onlike tourists that have to be like helped

(48:45):
by fishing game. And it's alwayslike somebody not wearing good footwear, somebody
not knowing when sundown is, ornot bringing enough food or water, or
deciding to go hiking at like eightpm at night. It's just it's putting
you and so many other people atrisk. That's a really good point.
Yeah, when you go into thesesituations unprepared, you are like putting the
live. So I think we've talkedabout this in last week's episode two with

(49:06):
Rattlesnakes or something or No Bears,I can't remember. We talk a lot.
But you doing stupid things puts thepeople helping you at risk. So
like, just because you're being anidiot doesn't mean that other people should suffer
because of it. On that note, thank you all so much for listening
to episode eighty of this podcast.For relevant links and where to find certain
things, check out the episode description. That's where you can also find Margie

(49:30):
on social media and where to findall of our social media as at our
website where we're gonna have update andmerch so soon. Thanks to Margie specifically
for helping Yay and all our expertSurvival AST patrons. Keep an eye out
for your gift for this month.It's logo related. It's gonna be so
good. It's gonna be good,and yeah, thank you all so much

(49:51):
for listening, and we'll be backin two weeks with the Oh my god,
no, I forgot my thank you. Thank you so much to my
good friend and second grade husband andalso at this point, life coach Josh
Walsh for making our intro music Ilove you, and thank you so much
to his brother Jesse for all theother heavy lifting in the audio department.
We'll be back in two weeks witha new animal attack story. Peace