November 6, 2024 • 42 mins
Alright, we couldn't keep this one from you all so we decided to release it on our main feed as well. Please enjoy our coverage of Episode 2, Gone Ape, of the HBO Max docu-series Chimp Crazy. Our coverage of Episode 3 is available on our Patreon now!
Related episodes:
Ep. 81: Marauding Chimps
Ep. 62: We're Not Monkey Sympathizers
Ep. 14: Travis the Pet Chimpanzee
Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Tiktok, check out our website GetOutAlivePodcast.com and join us on Patreon where you can now follow us for free!
Support the show for free by leaving a 5-star review wherever you're listening, or on GoodPods or Podchaser (where we can respond to your comments).
You can find Ashley @TheAngryOlogist on Twitter.
Related episodes:
Ep. 81: Marauding Chimps
Ep. 62: We're Not Monkey Sympathizers
Ep. 14: Travis the Pet Chimpanzee
Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Tiktok, check out our website GetOutAlivePodcast.com and join us on Patreon where you can now follow us for free!
Support the show for free by leaving a 5-star review wherever you're listening, or on GoodPods or Podchaser (where we can respond to your comments).
You can find Ashley @TheAngryOlogist on Twitter.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Welcome to episode eighty seven of Get Out Alive, a
bi weekly podcast about animal tax, why they happen, and
how we can avoid them. Originally, we weren't going to
post this episode on the main feed, but then it
covered so many animal attacks that we were like, might
as well. So if you're listening the day that we
released our first episode coverage of Chimp Crazy, then this
(00:37):
will be available on Patreon directly after. Otherwise you're going
to hear it at least a week later.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Yeah, that makes sense, So that's how we're doing it.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
I'm Ashley, and this will be covering episode two of
the HBO or Max documentary Chimp Crazy. Episode two, Gone
Ape's It's Nuts, which is a clever play on words
gone ape because Tanya's gone ape, but also the ape
is gone.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Oh my god, yeah wow, id even wow, look at you.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Yeah. So I know there's quite a few people who
complain that we swear a lot. This will not be
the episode for you. Wait this pil they complain about that,
Oh my god? Yeah really yeah. I remember someone was like, oh,
Nick has a bad vocabulary.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
That was four years ago.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
I swear it a lot. Yeah, Well it still still
holds true. So as mad as we were about the
first episode, we're even more mad about this one.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Or at least I am nuts. It's absolutely insane.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
It's bananas. So we're going to cover this episode and
then episode three and four, because we're assuming they're going
to cover more like legal stuff. We're just going to
put those on Patreon if you want to follow along.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yeah, but you probably combine those into one episode.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Maybe we'll see. We haven't watched them yet, so cool
to say, great point. So, this episode starts with Tanya
Haddocks in a massage chair. If you haven't listened to
episode our first episode coverage of this, or if you
(02:03):
haven't watched the documentary, like, go back and listen to
the episode or watch along. So anyways, Tanya, this woman
that well, first of all, before I actually get started, Tanya,
if you're listening, you're a stupid bitch and I hate you. Okay,
I am so mad. I'm so mad at this woman.
I personally hate her so much to like tack her, No,
(02:24):
I'm all set. I don't want to be No, I
don't want to talk to her at all.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
No, no, no, no, definitely not.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
So we It opens with her sitting in this massage
chair and she's like white stuff on her lips to
quote get them big. But then she's like, oh, I
don't want them to look too big or fake, which
like mission not accomplished.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
I'm assuming she had like white this is like a
white lotion on her waist. I think it was numbing
stuff getting classic surgery at the very beginning of and.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
We get to watch the needle go in her lips.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Correct and the doctor like spread it around. It's really weird.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yeah, So like I don't know the point of it.
But her phone is like going off the hook the
entire time episode, like episode phones parentally going off because
she has like hiding a chimp according to Peta. So
it's also really apparent in this like how fake her
face is, Like the lighting is bad. She just like
does not look like a real human being to me. Anyways,
(03:18):
So we ended the last episode with Tanka, the famous
chimp that Kanye and whatever owned going missing conveniently. Yeah,
while Tanya starts this episode by saying that Tanka died
from quote an event, probably a stroke, and that it
was quote shitty timing given the.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Court case, I would say so I'd agree with that, she.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Also has absolutely no emotion while we're laying this, where
like we saw her in the last episode crying when
she had to give up the chimps, which we were like, yeah,
it makes sense, she loves them. So you're telling me
if her favorite chimp died, she wouldn't have like any
emotion about it.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
No, no, no, no, she'sn't a crazy person. She's an
absolutely crazy person.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Yeah. So she claimed that a certified vet sent Peta
a certified letter about Tonka's death, and that they also
sent x rays showing his enlarged heart, and said that
the vet quote begged her to euthanize him, which literally
they are not allowed to do.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
No, it's an insane thing to do. So I think
the ultra sound I did on the heart that was
like years before to my understanding.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yeah, I think it was proof of like he had
a like a ongoing medical issue and this.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Was like why he died because they did say in
the last episode that he had had a stroke in
the past yep, and because of that he was stuck
in his enclosure is very small enclosure for a.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Year inside yeah, whoever knows how long?
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Ye forever? So for whatever reason they were. They say
it's medical. They were holding him in its enclosure and
apparently has a big ass heart.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
But I don't understand, Like, you can't take him for
a walk outside.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Dude, I mean can't.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
I wouldn't want to when you want to walk.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
With She's a crazy person, correct, But so that's one
of the things that I've noticed about this show. Even
though she's a fucking crazy person, she's still not laying
the gyms out like when they are full grown adults. Well,
she is not in the matter that the enclosures, Yeah,
that we know of. That we know of. I don't
think she is. I think I don't think she's even
she's fucking with that. I think she likes the idea
of owning them more than an idea of actually like interacting.
(05:10):
Correct one on one.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Well, I'm through Cage's bars, she will, but yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Correct, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
So we fast forward to September twenty twenty one, which
is two months after Tonka goes missing, and we're at
the Lake of the Ozarks in Missouri, at Tanya's new
home that she plans to make into a private petting
zoo on her twenty eight acres. We see kangaroos, camels,
and she plans on getting white horses that she wants
to die pink and make quote unicorns.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
That has to be animal abuse, right.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
I don't know. I feel like if you used the
right stuff, like, maybe it's fine. But we also watch
her draw what she wants the horses to look like,
and it is the drawing at about a third grade
level of what a horse should be and basically just
looks like my little pony.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
It's terrible.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Yeah, it's so terrible. So as we're watching this, it's
also apparent she has a new wig and has this
brand new house on like all this land. So she's
come into money. And as soon as I saw that,
I was like, hmm, wonder how she also, before we
get into how she's making her money, says that she
owns two gibbons, which are endangered primates. How is she
(06:12):
allowed to own these? And then she goes on to
be like, oh, well, I'm trying to stay away from
like the endangered stuff, to stay out of the trouble,
except these two apes, correct, which you literally just had
seven taken away from you by the court and you
weren't even allowed to be within like miles of them
as they were being taken away. Who's who's allowing this?
Speaker 2 (06:28):
It's no joke. In the same sentence, she says, I
would like to stay away from the endangered animal stuff,
but I do have gibbons. Yes, it's absolutely fucking crazy.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
So come to find out Tanya, and I've looked this
up since, and like, if you look her up online,
she's a certified quote broker, certified well, there's a certification
as much as you can be for the wildlife trade.
So she says she buys animals from breeding facilities like
Connie's would be, and then holds them until someone wants
to buy them, and then will transport them when they say.
(07:00):
And if you come to her private petting zoo and
see an animal that you want, she'll just sell it
to you.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
What the fuck?
Speaker 1 (07:06):
She advertises on Facebook, but it is mostly word of
mouth that she's selling these animals, and her posts on
Facebook are like, oh, need to get this little capuchin
in a new zip code, and then people just comment
I want that, Oh I love that, Yeah, and then
it just happens somehow. That's crazy.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
So she'll have dumb money and they do dumb things
with it.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
It's so funny because I'm in a like illegal wildlife
trade cybercrime class right now, and it's so funny that
she's just on Facebook like, hey, you want this monkey?
And meanwhile, my class is like, here's how to hack
into the men? You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Checked the hard drivet for all the deleted files.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Yeah, exactly, which I can do. And it's pretty fun.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Congratulations, thank you.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
So we also see pictures or video clips of Tanya
in a bathtub bottle feeding a monkey, like full wig makeup,
SuDS all over her bottle, feeding a monkey in a bathtub.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
It's she enjoys the cameras.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I think, Oh, well, yeah, she's the Dolly partner.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
She is the Dolly partner.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
And she said in her best year doing this work,
she's made over three hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
And just what, we're clear she just started this right allegedly, Yeah,
well that's a great point. Allegedly she just started this. Yeah,
there is no fucking way in hell she built that
facility in two months. There ain't no fucking way in hell.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yeah, I don't know. It's a really nice property.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
It's a nice property. It's got a lot of cage.
It's got a lot of animals, Like, it looks fun
to go visit, Like, I'll be honest, Like, there's not
only indigened animals. They have camels and canimals, kangaroos, horses,
like there are petting zoos in our area that have
those things. Yes, things like yeah, like it would be
fun to go go to. Uh, we don't know the details,
as you know the condition of these closers.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
You also don't know how much money property goes for
Missouri or like at that time it's in the Ozarks,
it's expensive, right, Yeah, Okay, they did chose the nice house.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Oh my god, it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
So she goes on to say that like since everything
went down with the chimps being taken away, that she's
since visited Connie's facility, but it's really sad now. And
she goes on to talk about Tanka. But I don't
know if you caught this. She keeps alternating between talking
about him in the past and present tense. Yes, she
does still no crying about him being quote dead, and
she calls him a human z because they quote put
(09:13):
the human in the chimp, which I'm like, you're crazy.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
So it seems like these cameras have been around for
Pilmos everything that's going on in her life, the entire time.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
For watching her get botox.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah, so at some point we are to believe that
this Champanzee passed away and the cameras were not around
for any.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Of it, even though they installed the secret cameras. Okay,
we'll get to how she claimed everything went down, but yeah,
you're right. So she also, we're gonna like breeze past
this because they breeze passed in the documentary. But she
like is reminiscing about Tonka and she's like, yeah, sometimes
I catch him masturbating and the crew was like.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
What you just like watch him?
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Yeah, and she's like yeah, and then he'd like hide
underr mirke ti he feeling is this what are we
doing here? So she goes on to say that the
internet is calling her quote a monkey mogul, and she's like,
I don't agree with that, but she's literally dealing monkeys.
That's exactly her job.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
She loves the nickname. She absolutely yeah, well she.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Wouldn't mention it if she didn't, you know. In response
to the claims about her faking Tonka's death, she says,
what good would it do for me? Like, why why
would someone? Why would I do that? What do I
benefit from that?
Speaker 2 (10:17):
I agree, why would you do that? Why would what
would you benefit from hiding Tonka?
Speaker 1 (10:22):
So she claims it serves no purpose for her and
has told Peta that they can come check her house.
But Peter's general counsel, Jared Goodman, He's going to come
up a lot in this episode, said that there'd be
no point in Peter doing that because quote, he wouldn't
be living in the house like a child, and that
there were no visible enclosures on her property that could
properly contain an adult chimpanzee off Tonkas says, makes sense.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
I completely agree with that.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
And finally, as Nick and I called in the previous episode,
without watching this one, Peta brings up Travis the Champanzee.
Oh yeah, So we get to see home videos with
Sandra Harold, who is Travis's owner, and they play some
of the nine one one audio that you heard our
coverage of the Travis story. So the documentary takes us
(11:04):
to Stamford, Connecticut, and we meet Sandra Harold. She's also
known as Sandy by those who know her her stepdaughter
Carried to Blassie and Carrie confirms that Sandy bought Travis
from Connie for forty grand in the nineteen nineties.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
That is so much fucking money.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
It's gone up twenty grand since.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Okay, what do you think that is, like adjusted forty grand?
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Well, but nowadays it's sixty Well yeah, but I mean
like a just.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
To forty grand back then, it's gonna be more than
sixty grand nowadays.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
I'm not a math earlier. Yeah, so the home videos
we see are wild. We see Travis drinking wine from
a glass at the dinner table. We see him bathing
the bathtub with his owners, using a toilet, cooking his
own meals in the microwave. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
We get to see a video from ping. That's fun. Yeah,
well it's it gets a picture of him ping.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Yeah either way, we unfortunately get to see him peing.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
He's bathing with children, not just his owners, with like
babies pretty much.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Yeah, well he is cool. I don't know what chims
look like, what ages, but he's like still a younger chim,
but like toddler sized. Yes. Yeah, so, according to Carry,
the stepdaughter, Travis went everywhere with Sandy so neither he
nor Sandy was ever alone, which was quote perfect to
which I say, a dog a dog, get a dog,
(12:17):
get an emotional support dog if you're that worried about
being lonely. We also, I was so excited get to
meet Frank Shiafari, who was the responding police officer to
the whole Travis attack and confirms that he knew Travis
because Travis was very well known in the Stanford, Connecticut community,
because he was the only chimpanzee and he was everywhere.
(12:39):
And we actually see Frank like a younger Frank with
a younger Travis, like pictures them playing, which is crazy,
and it is weird to me when you watch the
documentary and you see people talk about Travis when he
was younger. They talk about him so kindly and like
everyone's excited and smiling. It's just so eerie, like knowing
what happens and the way that people talk so kindly
(13:01):
about him. And obviously none of this is Travis's fault,
you know, it's all Sandy's and Connie's fault. Frankly, but yeah,
but that's chimpanzees. Yes, yes, they are sweet.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
They're fun when they're in a good mood, but they
can pop off in any moment like, yeah, that's that's
They're a wild fucking animal. They're not domesticated, absolutely, saying
his parents are from the wild.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Yeah, and escaped, Yes, and died because of it. Yes.
So Carrie, the stepdaughter said, when Travis turned six or seven,
Sandy started to realize that he was too much to handle,
but pretended that everything was fine. Then in two thousand
and three and one hundred and seventy pound, Travis jumped
out of the family's car as they were on a
ride and was causing such a commotion in the neighborhood
(13:44):
that he jumped out into it actually caused the lock in,
and then the police had to respond and it took well. Actually,
Frank the police officer we're talking about, says that Travis
was running around spanking people and quote it was kind
of humorous at the time, which he says lightheartedly, And.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
I'm like, how can you say that because they didn't know.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
They thought he was now he knows, you know what
I mean, it's just the way he said. I was like,
oh my god. So it took two hours before Travis
was lured back into the car with ice cream ice cream.
The important part to note here he was not put
back in the car. They could not handle him. He was.
It wasn't until he decided to go back in the
car that it was over.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Can't control them.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
So apparently after this, the quote Travis Amendment was created,
which made anyone in Connecticut with a fifty plus pound
primate to get a permit, but Carrie said that it
was never enforced, but the mayor of Stanford did tell
Sandy that this could never happen again or there would
be serious repercussions.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
So I'm assuming to get that permit. We don't know,
we haven't looked into him, assuming to get that permit,
Like it includes enclosures and like care for the animal,
probably not having him live, you know, in your house.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yeah, but i mean I'm sure that's since changed, given
like other regulations that have changed. But like, yeah, who
would enforce that animal control? Correct that? Yeah? The USDA,
Like that's federal, so it's like already outside of Connecticut's Yeah,
so it's just like who would be doing it? So
I get why it wasn't enforced, but also why make
a law and then not enforce it?
Speaker 2 (15:15):
That's just me. Yeah, well, just tell me have the option.
You always have the option afterwards.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Yeah, So after his escape in two thousand and three,
Travis was confined to the house, which was obviously a
very different life than what he had been living up
until then. And then roughly a year after that, so
like around two thousand and four, Sandy's husband, Jerry was
diagnosed with stomach cancer and passed away pretty quickly, and
Sandy and Travis became very depressed, which I think we
(15:41):
covered in the Travis episode, and Sandy became a bit
of a hoarder, so the house became like a mess.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
From all the videos that they show in the documentary,
he seems like a very loving owner of Jerry. Yeah, oh,
she seems great. Like he seems very kind, very nice.
Like does it seem like he knows a lot about
chimpan z uh how to take care of one?
Speaker 1 (16:02):
No, well, neither to Sandy.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Yeah, correct, either of them do.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
But he seems nice. He seems to really really.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Love I think they of course love him and even
carry the stepdaughter has said that like everyone like he
was another child loved.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah, she says he was well loved. He remember the family.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Yeah, sure, yep.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
So uh.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
But during this time after Jerry's death, Carrie says, and
you know, Travis is locked up. Kerry says that all
Travis would do all day is rock back and forth,
which is like a very stereotypical sign of stress. It's
called stereotypees. You'll see it in zoos sometimes, like if
an animals walking back and forth and like has made
a path, it's called the stereotype. It's usually because they're
(16:40):
either not enriched enough or just like generally stressed or whatever.
So he's not doing well mentally. And we see one
home video where Sandy you know, was talking to Carry
on the phone saying that Travis was depressed, and Sandy
was like, hey, Carry, why don't you bring over your
son to play with Travis? He would love that. So
so the parent, which first I was like, oh my god,
(17:02):
don't let a child near. So it's a child. But
he's like over six feet.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Tall, he's probably sixteen seventeen.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Yeah, he definitely doesn't look like an adult, like he's
eighteen around eighteen, I would say. So we see a
home video of this kid, I'm gonna call him a
kid because he's Carry's kid and Travis is let out
of his cage, takes off the kid's shoe and then
like runs away with it, and Sandy's like, oh, he
wants you to chase him. So the kid goes to
(17:29):
like kind of chase Travis.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
But he's he's reluctant. Yeah, he's not really fully into it.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
So Travis comes over starts beating on his side, and
then the kid is like, hah, get him away from me,
and then Travis grabs his arm and tries to pull
him down, and Sandy starts screaming at him and tells
him enough, and he does listen and stop.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Sandy starts screaming immediately if she knows right away, like
something's not right, yeah, like right away. Yeah, So, which
is very concerning when you invite someone over your home
to play with your chimpanzee. Yeah, what the fuck?
Speaker 1 (18:02):
That's like that's her grandkid. Oh my god, when you
really think about it, like if it's her stepdaughter's son,
Like that's her grandchild. Yes. So then we move on
to the Fateful Day February sixteenth, two thousand and nine.
Sandy had plans with a friend but was running late
because Travis grabbed her keys. Clearly wanting to go with
her and wasn't being cooperative. Unfortunately for her, Charla Nash
(18:27):
happened to call Sandy at this time and then offered
to come over and help. So, of course, if you've
listened to our Travis coverage or just know about this case,
if you haven't listened to our coverage or any coverage
of it, I would suggest you listen to the episode
because we'll go into it. But we won't go fully
into the attack here, but we see in this documentary
pictures of the scene, including bloody clothes, pictures of Charla's
(18:50):
bloody scalp which is separate from her body, the knife
that Sandy stabbed Travis with in an attempt to get
him off of Charla, and then pictures of Travis trying
to break into a police cruiser, which we come to
find out is Frank Frank to note, the responding police officer,
just an average friendly neighborhood cops. When you see the documentary, He's.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Just a dude.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
He's just a happy little guy. Like he is, not
some big buff swat team guy that's equipped to deal
with a two hundred pound hip pits.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Now, He's just a retirab old man, you know, hanging out.
He's not that one likes so well, he's party in
his sixties.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Yeah, yeah, so he said when he responded. That day,
as you would hurt, like would have heard in our coverage,
Travis came up to his driver's side door, ripped the
door off of the cruiser, not open the door, ripped
it off, and then was growling in Frank's face as
his teeth were dripping with Charla's blood. I would have
(19:47):
started shooting way before this, well, way before this. You're
trying to figure out what's going on. I mean, it
all happened really fast. So Frank like has a moment,
like there's a pause where Travis doesn't immediately obviously try
to kill him.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Because again there's no door between them.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Yep. They's just looking sitting in his car seat. So
Frank shoots at Travis a few times. Then Travis takes
off into the house and you hear nine one one
audio clips of Sandy whispering like he's not dead.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
It's really creepy.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
It's so creepy because you have to wonder where is Sandy.
Has she locked herself in a car or she in the.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
House, so the nine to one one operator keeps saying
stay in the car, so she must be in a
different car, must be in a different car.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
There is literally I kept thinking of this when she
was whispering that you are not safe anywhere. No, no,
in your car. He obviously can rip the door off.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
You break the window.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
You're not safe in the house. Yeah, you break the window.
You can't climb a tree. They're chimpanzees like you. Literally,
unless you like take a boat out into a lake,
you're not safe from them. So that being said, we
all know what happens next with Charla, and Travis ultimately
dies in the house in his cage. But there were
(20:56):
no criminal charges filed against Sandra Harold because she claims
quote no one made her aware of the dangers of
owning a chimpanzee.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Fucking idiot.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
I so, first of all, common sense, Yeah, common sense, yep,
you know it's so funny too. I'm researching for another
episode right now, which involves me researching like ancient people
in North America that lived around mammoths and saber tooth
tigers and short faced bears. I don't know, just seems
like us as a species should know wild animal in
(21:30):
home bad?
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Yes, not safe.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Yeah, yeah, there's a reason they're engaged like it just
it shouldn't be an excuse that no one explicitly wrote
down on a piece of paper, hey, this might not
be safe for you. And she admitted to her step
daughter that she didn't feel that this was safe anymore.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
It's so it's wild to me because like if a
friend comes over your house and your dog attacks them, Yep,
you are liable.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah it's a dog, yeah, just it.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Could be a little fucking twenty p whatever. Yeah, you're liable.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Put a chimpanzee ripping your friend's face off, ripping her
hands off, your best friend, your best friend, Like it's
absolutely fucking and you have no responsibility, you know. And
they just put that new lawn, like we talked about
like years before that, they literally put a line for
this chimpanzee and they couldn't force it with her, like, yep,
what are we with the chimp that it was named after?
(22:23):
Like was she like legally grandfather den so they couldn't,
Like I don't, I don't even know. It's it's insane.
It's absolutely absolutely insane, And I.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Don't understand why if Sandra couldn't be charged because quote,
like no one told her about this. Why wasn't Connie charged.
Connie's the one dealing these animals. If Connie's not making
it apparent, like abundantly clear to people how dangerous these
animals can be, Connie should be held liable. Yes. Yeah. Anyways,
(22:50):
we go on to hear from Carrie, who says that, like,
right after this happened, Sandy told her not to tell anyone,
but if police had stripped her down that day and
looked at her body, they would see that she was
covered in bruises caused by Travis.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
I don't know how she didn't like get medical attention
after all this, Like you know, she wasn't.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Maybe she did, but they didn't like look around, you know.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Yeah. And then unfortunately, after we see these horrible pictures
and hear all about this horrible event, we just cut
back to Tanya sitting on a couch watching Tonka in movies,
laughing and saying, how he's so cute insane. If this
was your child that died and you were watching videos
of them, would you be like, Ti, how cute look
(23:33):
at him? No, you'd be distraught. Yeah, it's only a
few months later. Yes, so PETA's general counsel Jared noted that, yeah, honestly,
it's awesome. We don't disagree with PETA here. So here's
the making us like PETA. It's a really hard stance
for us to be in. They're not wrong one hundred
percent of the time, and in this series they're not. Yeah.
(23:55):
So they note that the Endangered Species Act, which was
signed in the nineteen seventies, left captive chimpanzees out from
being protected, so that they could still be used in
labs for like medical experiments and in movies and TV
and stuff. But in twenty fifteen, the US Fish and
Wildlife Service declared that all chimps, even captive ones, were
(24:16):
protected under the ESA, but allegedly, according to PETA, once again,
this is rarely enforced. So organizations like PEDA are the
ones that have to step in to pursue these cases,
which I do understand. I get that someone's got to
do it exactly.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
The government can't go to every single person who owns
an animal, an exotic ninjaan animal, and you know, it does.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Seem like a thing that they should regulate though, so
that they could do that.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
But oh, of course, of course. Yeah, but PETA has
the resources. They have the money to go after these
people and pay the lawyers and do everything to do
and then the government.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Has to act. Yeah, and there are a separate entity
from the government, so it probably makes it easier for
them to do certain things. Correct. So they noted that
this is why it's so important for them to find Tanka,
because if they aren't helping him, there's literally no one
else that will. No, then we get to hear Tanya's
stupid ass rant that she won't eat those animal crackers
that come in like the red boxes because quote Peter
(25:08):
had them take the bars off of it, because no
animals deserve to be in cages. Like she's like making sny.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Common or a weird thing to like have a stance on.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
So she's like advocating that the animals should be in cages. Yeah,
because she's like, oh, well why can't they like.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Well, to be fair, she is right, if you have
a champanzee, it should be in a fucking cage. Here's
the idea, though, don't have a champanzee.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Yeah, well yes, chimps if you own them, should be
in cages. But also you shouldn't own them. They should
correct be in homes or any you know what I mean. Yeah,
so she's like weirdly advocating for them to be in cages,
and she just is like bitching about Peter.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Yeah, she's just she doesn't really cared about the fucking
animal crackers.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Yeah. Anyways, back to Tonka, Tanya said, if you remember
that she had a vet write a certified letter to
the court about Tanka dying good vet. That certified vet
was named Jerry Swegan. That man is Tanya's husband, who
is in fact not a vet an area information that
her legal team did not share with the court.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
That's fucking insane. I don't know how you have a
legal team.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Uh yeah, okay, I don't know what it becomes by
the end of the film, but it's it's not it's sparse.
So they stated that Tanka was cremated in the backyard,
which I don't know if this is like her new
property or what. At one hundred and seventy degrees, which
Peta is like, you can't cook food at that no, Like,
there's no way you burned a like two hundred pounds
(26:28):
ship at one hundred and seventy degrees, but then Tanya
was like, oh, sorry, we were rushing and we like
left off a zero, so it was actually like seventeen
hundred degrees, and like they're just like not acknowledging that
that's like the correct temperature. It's like, oh, so you
googled the correct temperature and then now you're like mad
that they're not actually yeah, yeah, a lot of well
actually a.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Fucking idiot, Like what an absolute fucking it because there's
there's two numbers there, It's like one sixty five two,
one hundred and seventy degrees, Like that means two numbers?
How to get fucked up?
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Yeah, she did give a range.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Yeah, like what an absolute fucking dumb ass.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Just even if you're lying, like that's you're making up
a number, why would you not pick a back?
Speaker 2 (27:04):
She could have picked a ridiculous suff She picked ten
thousand degrees. That would have been more believable than a hundred.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
She could pick like four hundred and twenty five. Yeah,
you cook like chicken ad or you know what I mean. Yeah,
I lived in one hundred and twenty degree heat for
three fucking years. Like are you cremated? Uh? Not exactly, Okay, well,
there you go. So you're a living proof that this
did not happen.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
What an absolute dumbass. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
So she then shows what she claims are Tonka's ashes,
which are a bag of uniform looking brown powder that's
probably like clay, it's red dirt or just like it.
Honestly could be like that magnetic sand that kids play with.
Yet that would be more believable. Not even the right
color of Have you seen animal ashes? I guess yeah,
have you ever looked through them?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Not like that?
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Now, they have like little bits of bone in them
and stuff. They don't look all the same. No, animals
aren't all the same.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yeah. No, that's not fucking sand, that's yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
No. So we then get a montage of Tanya talking
shit about Jared Goodman, the General count Silver Peta, and
it is pretty funny. But she also like literally has
a voodoo doll that looks like this man and is
wearing this man's clothes.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
It's a pee Herman doll.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Oh, it's a peewe herman. She keeps pee Herman. Yeah,
it's it's a little unsettling. And she also says to
the camera, I don't want to kill him, I just
want to maime him, been there, been there?
Speaker 2 (28:19):
I get that.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Very similar to Tiger King.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Yep, so except someone actually did die.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
In Tiger King. Yeah, oh true, Yeah, this is about Yeah. Well,
so we didn't see a phone call where Jared Goodman
like politely asks her about her supplying new evidence about
Tonka's death, and then she goes off on him, saying
that she's villainized. And she said that she so innostantly
went to just help Conye out with the chimps out
of the kindness of her heart. And then after she's
(28:47):
done like popping off, there's this really long, awkward pause
and then Jared just like coughs, and then there's another
pause and Tanya goes like, so earnestly, is that all
acknowledge this question? No, as far as we see on
the camera, right, Like there could have been an entire
new phone like phone call past that, but like from
what we saw, it was really funny. The filming is
(29:08):
very funny.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
I assuming this is all happened during COVID. I'm assuming
there's some type of deposition that they're doing over the phone.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Yeah, so, like she must have answered the questions eventually,
but like we don't see it.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Yeah. So we then see Jared Goodman again, who's the
Peter's general counsel, and he goes on to say that
Peter's actively looking for Tonka, to the point that they're
sending people to animal auctions like wildlife auctions to look
for him, like if he's up for sale. They're hiring
private investigators that are using drones to look at properties
where they think he might be. They're monitoring the Internet,
including looking at Tanya's Facebook. And then somehow, in a
(29:45):
strange turn of events, a psychic is the one that
helps Pete out, I would have thought. So Peter gets
a subpoena, which is a weird string of words. Peter
gets a subpoena for text messages between the client of
this psychic because the client was Tanya's friend who Tanya
texted and said that she was out buying groceries for
(30:06):
Tonka the dead chimp, the dead chimp, well after he
was dead, allegedly. So in January fifth, twenty twenty two,
five months after Tnka's disappearance, Peter brings Tanya back to
court and we see her attend the Zoom court session
and in classic Zoom fashion, everyone freezes.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
It's very funny.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
It's really funny. Once again, the filming in this pretty good,
which makes me think, yeah, we'lley business, we'll get there.
So in this zoom court, Tanya claims that because Jared
is like, hey, we got this text message, what's this about?
And she just goes, u uh yeah, that's referring to
my capuchin monkey that I rescued and I named him Tonka,
(30:46):
and Jared just it is like god, yeah right. He's like,
all right, when did you acquire this monkey? And she
was like it was January, which would have been a
full year. Well so she's like January, No, that's not true. Okay,
let me think it was actually July fifth, just to
remind you, conveniently, the day that this is happening is
(31:09):
January fifth. So she just picked the first month that
she the first number that came to head, the first number,
which was the day that it was yep. So Jared
is just like all right, moving on, and he asks
if she was the one who found Tonka dead, and
then she puts on the water works so hard and
says that she found him found Tonka unresponsive in his
(31:30):
cage and poked him with a PVC pipe and that
he was barely moving, so she just like waited a
few minutes staring at him, were like have to believe,
And then she opened the cage and went in and
he was dead and.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Never called an actual VET or anything.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Yeah, there's no record of anyone being like even Connie
being called.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
There's no photos, there's no camera crew that's there.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
And when she's relaying this, she's like, you know what.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
I mean, Like, it's the worst fake crust, so annoying
for someone who was so dramatic and so over the top,
you think she would have had like the fake crime mastered. No,
she has, no. It's horrible.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
So by the end she's literally screaming crying and she's like, guys, stop,
I can't do this. So the judge calls for like
a ten minute recess so she can calm down. Then
immediately after the recess, after she was just screaming crying,
Tanya whispers, not crying at all. He is such a
fucking bastard. And this is like fifteen seconds later, yeah,
(32:28):
like maybe, to which someone on the zoom calls like, uh, Tanya,
just letting you know that you're not on mute, and
she was like thank.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
You, and then she goes back crying.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yeah, and the captions literally say, rezume.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Sobbing, sobbing. It's insane, absolutely fucking psychotic.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
So Peter calls doctor Frederick Snow as a witness, who
Tanya still on the zoom call says, quote, he looks
like a real dork.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
This dude has a fucking resume.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
So doctor Snow has worked examining mass graves for the
International Commission of Missing Persons An has worked as an
agent for the U United Nations as a forensic anthropologist
in Bosnia.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yeah, it's fucking insane.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Yeah. So we were watching this with a friend, our
friend Zach, who was on a bonus episode before, and
you both were like, oh, he's got people after him.
Oh yeah, if he's looking into like missing mass graves, like.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
He he has exposed and shit, you can tell he's cold.
He don't give a fuck.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Yeah, well you can't when you're in that field, correct.
So he admits though, he's like, well, it've never worked
on like a cremated chimp, so this would be interesting.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Yeah, I'm sure Pete's paying him big money to, you know,
come help them out.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Yeah, of course. So we then see doctor Snow with
partially fleshed pig and cowbones, and what he's doing is
like trying to simulate what it would look like if
Tonka had been actually cremated, but he's doing it in
like a commercial crematory rather than just a backyard fire pit,
which Tanya is kind of saying happened.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
And this is just like a thing they're doing for
the show to kind of tell the viewer what I.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Mean, forensics, like they do do experiments like this.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Yeah, but he knows that already, like he doesn't need
to go do experience. This is just for the show. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
So what we see after like at least two hours
I would say, of burning, so it takes a while,
and he just has chunks of bone, not a full
body by any means. And we see taken out of
the crematory. We see a ton of bone fragments, like
big bone fragments, and these are bones from pigs and cows.
So obviously a chimpanzee not as big as a cow,
(34:23):
depending on the pig, maybe so like somewhere in between.
So you would assume that a two hundred pound chimp
would leave behind a lot of bones sizeable bone fragments.
So his point is like, if you were to just
burn the chimp, there would still be these bone.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Fragments, even if what they're saying is true.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Yeah, and then the bones get put into a processor
and are made into what we think of when we
see ashes of like our pets or something like. They're
crushed down and put.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
In like bags, which is never mentioned at all in
Tanya's statement.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Yeah, she never says like we pulvarized his body to
look like this uniform bag of brown dirt. She even
says it looks like dirt. Correct.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Now, they just burnt him and then swiped up the ashes.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Is what they say. Yeah. So the point here being,
unless you have a processor, there would be very large
bone fragments left over, like it would be obvious.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
And the fragments that were left over after the pulverizing
it's still are bigger than the fucking sand she had
in the bag exactly. Yeah, not the same color or anything.
It's clear if.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Any of you have, like have a pet cremated. Unfortunately,
you see if you look at the bag, there are
like little fragments of your animal in there, Like it's
not uniform by any means, though, so doctor Snow testifies, no,
he does not believe it's possible that Tonko was cremated
where Tanya claims that he was. Tanya, who is for
some reason allowed to ask some man questions, asks if
(35:43):
he's ever actually been to the location where Tonko was cremated,
to which doctor Snow says, no, he wasn't asked, which
is a fair point.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
But like, is she representing herself in this core cat.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
It's not made clear, but she is doing way more
talking than she should correct as a that is under.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Fire for this, Yes, absolutely insane.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
So in the end, the judge says Tanya's evidence is
inconsistent and she has made things up throughout the entire
course of this like litigation and is continuing to make
things up. However, the judge still doesn't know if Tonka
is alive and cannot confirm if he's dead, and denies
the motion to put Tanya in contempt of court and
says that if Peta really wants this to move forward,
(36:26):
they're going to need better evidence that Tonka is alive.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
I obviously don't know a thing about the law, but like,
if the judge believes that she's lying under oath. Why
can't you like she, like the judge says in the film,
I believe Tany is lying about these things. That is
not enough to put her in contemption.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
She doesn't that proof. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. Yeah yeah,
that's the main thing. There's no there's the text evidence.
But if literally all you have is a text that
has Tanka's name in it. And then she's said, well,
I have a monkey named Tonka. It doesn't you don't know? Well,
conveniently for us the viewers, Tanya like. So after this,
(37:03):
Tanya hangs up the zoom call, hugs her husband and says,
we just have to keep him hidden, and the husband
kind of looks at the camera like, eh, like uncomfortable. Yeah,
And then Tanya calls Connie. They're celebrating, and she's like,
we won. And then Tanya leads the film crew into
her basement where she is keeping a very alive Tanka.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
And that is our coverage of episode two gone ape.
We're mad. I hate Tanya. She's a stupid, lying idiot.
It's just so funny how many times she looks at
the camera and she's like, you're gonna question my integrity?
You have none. Yeah, just you're the worst. She's the worst.
I hate her.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
I am very convinced that she just wants the attention
to the publicity from being on the film.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
I could see that because if she, like she calls
these chimps her children, if she legitimately loved them, why
would you not want them to have a better life,
Like you'd rather him be stuck in a basement and
not see the son for the rest of his life
to make you happy. But you say that you love him.
That's fucked. Also, you're claiming that these are your children.
(38:21):
You're lying about his death, telling people this is a
bag of dirt that's your son allegedly. That's fucked. Yeah.
If she really knew what it was like to lose
a child, like she would never say any of that.
And she's an evil, terrible person. I hate her. I
hate her.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
I hate her, and you can tell her. Her husband, like,
I don't think he wants something to do with this.
He seems like he's like this is fucked.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
How I mean, like, obviously this is a documentary, right,
Like it's made for our entertainment.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Who it's very much made for entertainment? Is this is
not an informational documentary like.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
It is, and it isn't like we don't know how
much like the film crew made happen, like you know
what I mean. We also noted too that the fake
like the proxy director, is seen throughout this We actually
in this episode don't see the real director, and we're
wondering if that's because like they don't want Tanya in
them to know that he's the actual director because he's
got to be famous after Tiger King.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
So I I would predict that a lot of the
in person filming with Tanya and the proxy director probably
happened over the course of like a week or something
like that, probably got together and did like all this
filming sure at once. Yeah wait during the core case.
He probably should up for the core case specifically. Yeah,
so like the other director just never even makes an.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Appearance, Yeah, which would make sense that they're lying.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Yeah, exactly if they're lying to them, which I also
don't like, like it's fun, you know what.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
I don't care about lying to Tanya anymore because Tonya
is a stupid bitch and she's keeping this champ in
a basement.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
It seems like shitty journalism, Like it's investigates journalism, but
still it's yeah sketchy. Well she she sucks, she really sucks.
And yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
So now we're left at the end of this episode, like, Okay,
did the film crew they must have known about Tonka.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
They must be for at the end of the episode.
The video that they show at the very end of
episode two, it's grainy, it's not very like that. The
video seems to like it's a hidden camera.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Like, yeah, when she takes them down to see Tonka.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Yes, so someone was wearing a hidden camera when they
took the film crew or whoever is wearing the hidden
camera whenever they walk down to see Tonka wherever he is.
I still don't know if he's in her house, like
they don't necessarily specifically, so I say that's her basement.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Yeah, I just assumed it was her basement.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
I don't think it is. I don't think she's that stupid.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Oh, I think she's supid.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
She's stupid enough to keep a fucking chimpanzee in a
basement in a ten anyway six fucking cage, Like.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
Yeah, yeah, it's a it's like half of a room.
It's like it's not even it's like a closet. Essentially,
it's like.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
No other animals down there. There's no window, yeah, like yeah,
there's no enrichment in there, like nope, it's it's terrible.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
How and there is I am telling you literally no
way for her to clean that enclosure to keep him
separate from her, no, which is the bare minimum for
any end. Yeah, there's no way she can clean that
without interacting with him. No, So either it's not getting
cleaned or she is interacting with him. So anyways, that
was our coverage, and uh, we're gonna watch episode three
(41:05):
and four and we will put that coverage on Patreon.
But yeah, we're assuming the rest of it is a
lot of legal stuff.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
If it's really really good.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
That yeah, we'll see, we'll see. Well, thank you all
so much for listening. This was episode eighty seven. We'll
be back in two weeks with another. Well, I was
gonna say another great guest. You're a great guest. Happy birthday.
I appreciate thank you to everyone who wished me happy birthday.
Oh yes, it was so sweet.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
As she's coming up, it's gonna be passed by the
time this episode comes.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
Out, it'll be days.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Act my face is coming up. So hopefully everyone wants
your happy birthday. If not, well, are you gonna post?
Are you gonna post? I need to get control of
the fucking Instagram story real quick.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Yeah, good luck? All right. Thank you so much to
all of you. If you oh, we have the new
merch with the new logo, check out the website.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
I like it.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Get out a live podcast dot com. Thank you to
our patrons for suggesting new colors.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Check the sizing chart.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Check the sizing chart for sure, because the T shirts
run a little big, but other guys, the crew next
great perfect size size serious. Check out our episode description
for links to our social media. Thank you so much
to Josh Walsh for making our intro music, and thank
you to Jesse Walsh for editing. That's it. We'll be
back in two weeks with a dope guest about a
different story than this horrifying one. Well horrifying in its
(42:18):
own way, but different
Welcome to episode eighty seven of Get Out Alive, a
bi weekly podcast about animal tax, why they happen, and
how we can avoid them. Originally, we weren't going to
post this episode on the main feed, but then it
covered so many animal attacks that we were like, might
as well. So if you're listening the day that we
released our first episode coverage of Chimp Crazy, then this
(00:37):
will be available on Patreon directly after. Otherwise you're going
to hear it at least a week later.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Yeah, that makes sense, So that's how we're doing it.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
I'm Ashley, and this will be covering episode two of
the HBO or Max documentary Chimp Crazy. Episode two, Gone
Ape's It's Nuts, which is a clever play on words
gone ape because Tanya's gone ape, but also the ape
is gone.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Oh my god, yeah wow, id even wow, look at you.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Yeah. So I know there's quite a few people who
complain that we swear a lot. This will not be
the episode for you. Wait this pil they complain about that,
Oh my god? Yeah really yeah. I remember someone was like, oh,
Nick has a bad vocabulary.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
That was four years ago.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
I swear it a lot. Yeah, Well it still still
holds true. So as mad as we were about the
first episode, we're even more mad about this one.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Or at least I am nuts. It's absolutely insane.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
It's bananas. So we're going to cover this episode and
then episode three and four, because we're assuming they're going
to cover more like legal stuff. We're just going to
put those on Patreon if you want to follow along.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yeah, but you probably combine those into one episode.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Maybe we'll see. We haven't watched them yet, so cool
to say, great point. So, this episode starts with Tanya
Haddocks in a massage chair. If you haven't listened to
episode our first episode coverage of this, or if you
(02:03):
haven't watched the documentary, like, go back and listen to
the episode or watch along. So anyways, Tanya, this woman
that well, first of all, before I actually get started, Tanya,
if you're listening, you're a stupid bitch and I hate you. Okay,
I am so mad. I'm so mad at this woman.
I personally hate her so much to like tack her, No,
(02:24):
I'm all set. I don't want to be No, I
don't want to talk to her at all.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
No, no, no, no, definitely not.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
So we It opens with her sitting in this massage
chair and she's like white stuff on her lips to
quote get them big. But then she's like, oh, I
don't want them to look too big or fake, which
like mission not accomplished.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
I'm assuming she had like white this is like a
white lotion on her waist. I think it was numbing
stuff getting classic surgery at the very beginning of and.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
We get to watch the needle go in her lips.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Correct and the doctor like spread it around. It's really weird.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yeah, So like I don't know the point of it.
But her phone is like going off the hook the
entire time episode, like episode phones parentally going off because
she has like hiding a chimp according to Peta. So
it's also really apparent in this like how fake her
face is, Like the lighting is bad. She just like
does not look like a real human being to me. Anyways,
(03:18):
So we ended the last episode with Tanka, the famous
chimp that Kanye and whatever owned going missing conveniently. Yeah,
while Tanya starts this episode by saying that Tanka died
from quote an event, probably a stroke, and that it
was quote shitty timing given the.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Court case, I would say so I'd agree with that, she.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Also has absolutely no emotion while we're laying this, where
like we saw her in the last episode crying when
she had to give up the chimps, which we were like, yeah,
it makes sense, she loves them. So you're telling me
if her favorite chimp died, she wouldn't have like any
emotion about it.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
No, no, no, no, she'sn't a crazy person. She's an
absolutely crazy person.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Yeah. So she claimed that a certified vet sent Peta
a certified letter about Tonka's death, and that they also
sent x rays showing his enlarged heart, and said that
the vet quote begged her to euthanize him, which literally
they are not allowed to do.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
No, it's an insane thing to do. So I think
the ultra sound I did on the heart that was
like years before to my understanding.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yeah, I think it was proof of like he had
a like a ongoing medical issue and this.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Was like why he died because they did say in
the last episode that he had had a stroke in
the past yep, and because of that he was stuck
in his enclosure is very small enclosure for a.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Year inside yeah, whoever knows how long?
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Ye forever? So for whatever reason they were. They say
it's medical. They were holding him in its enclosure and
apparently has a big ass heart.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
But I don't understand, Like, you can't take him for
a walk outside.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Dude, I mean can't.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
I wouldn't want to when you want to walk.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
With She's a crazy person, correct, But so that's one
of the things that I've noticed about this show. Even
though she's a fucking crazy person, she's still not laying
the gyms out like when they are full grown adults. Well,
she is not in the matter that the enclosures, Yeah,
that we know of. That we know of. I don't
think she is. I think I don't think she's even
she's fucking with that. I think she likes the idea
of owning them more than an idea of actually like interacting.
(05:10):
Correct one on one.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Well, I'm through Cage's bars, she will, but yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Correct, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
So we fast forward to September twenty twenty one, which
is two months after Tonka goes missing, and we're at
the Lake of the Ozarks in Missouri, at Tanya's new
home that she plans to make into a private petting
zoo on her twenty eight acres. We see kangaroos, camels,
and she plans on getting white horses that she wants
to die pink and make quote unicorns.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
That has to be animal abuse, right.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
I don't know. I feel like if you used the
right stuff, like, maybe it's fine. But we also watch
her draw what she wants the horses to look like,
and it is the drawing at about a third grade
level of what a horse should be and basically just
looks like my little pony.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
It's terrible.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Yeah, it's so terrible. So as we're watching this, it's
also apparent she has a new wig and has this
brand new house on like all this land. So she's
come into money. And as soon as I saw that,
I was like, hmm, wonder how she also, before we
get into how she's making her money, says that she
owns two gibbons, which are endangered primates. How is she
(06:12):
allowed to own these? And then she goes on to
be like, oh, well, I'm trying to stay away from
like the endangered stuff, to stay out of the trouble,
except these two apes, correct, which you literally just had
seven taken away from you by the court and you
weren't even allowed to be within like miles of them
as they were being taken away. Who's who's allowing this?
Speaker 2 (06:28):
It's no joke. In the same sentence, she says, I
would like to stay away from the endangered animal stuff,
but I do have gibbons. Yes, it's absolutely fucking crazy.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
So come to find out Tanya, and I've looked this
up since, and like, if you look her up online,
she's a certified quote broker, certified well, there's a certification
as much as you can be for the wildlife trade.
So she says she buys animals from breeding facilities like
Connie's would be, and then holds them until someone wants
to buy them, and then will transport them when they say.
(07:00):
And if you come to her private petting zoo and
see an animal that you want, she'll just sell it
to you.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
What the fuck?
Speaker 1 (07:06):
She advertises on Facebook, but it is mostly word of
mouth that she's selling these animals, and her posts on
Facebook are like, oh, need to get this little capuchin
in a new zip code, and then people just comment
I want that, Oh I love that, Yeah, and then
it just happens somehow. That's crazy.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
So she'll have dumb money and they do dumb things
with it.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
It's so funny because I'm in a like illegal wildlife
trade cybercrime class right now, and it's so funny that
she's just on Facebook like, hey, you want this monkey?
And meanwhile, my class is like, here's how to hack
into the men? You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Checked the hard drivet for all the deleted files.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Yeah, exactly, which I can do. And it's pretty fun.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Congratulations, thank you.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
So we also see pictures or video clips of Tanya
in a bathtub bottle feeding a monkey, like full wig makeup,
SuDS all over her bottle, feeding a monkey in a bathtub.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
It's she enjoys the cameras.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I think, Oh, well, yeah, she's the Dolly partner.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
She is the Dolly partner.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
And she said in her best year doing this work,
she's made over three hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
And just what, we're clear she just started this right allegedly, Yeah,
well that's a great point. Allegedly she just started this. Yeah,
there is no fucking way in hell she built that
facility in two months. There ain't no fucking way in hell.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yeah, I don't know. It's a really nice property.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
It's a nice property. It's got a lot of cage.
It's got a lot of animals, Like, it looks fun
to go visit, Like, I'll be honest, Like, there's not
only indigened animals. They have camels and canimals, kangaroos, horses,
like there are petting zoos in our area that have
those things. Yes, things like yeah, like it would be
fun to go go to. Uh, we don't know the details,
as you know the condition of these closers.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
You also don't know how much money property goes for
Missouri or like at that time it's in the Ozarks,
it's expensive, right, Yeah, Okay, they did chose the nice house.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Oh my god, it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
So she goes on to say that like since everything
went down with the chimps being taken away, that she's
since visited Connie's facility, but it's really sad now. And
she goes on to talk about Tanka. But I don't
know if you caught this. She keeps alternating between talking
about him in the past and present tense. Yes, she
does still no crying about him being quote dead, and
she calls him a human z because they quote put
(09:13):
the human in the chimp, which I'm like, you're crazy.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
So it seems like these cameras have been around for
Pilmos everything that's going on in her life, the entire time.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
For watching her get botox.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah, so at some point we are to believe that
this Champanzee passed away and the cameras were not around
for any.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Of it, even though they installed the secret cameras. Okay,
we'll get to how she claimed everything went down, but yeah,
you're right. So she also, we're gonna like breeze past
this because they breeze passed in the documentary. But she
like is reminiscing about Tonka and she's like, yeah, sometimes
I catch him masturbating and the crew was like.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
What you just like watch him?
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Yeah, and she's like yeah, and then he'd like hide
underr mirke ti he feeling is this what are we
doing here? So she goes on to say that the
internet is calling her quote a monkey mogul, and she's like,
I don't agree with that, but she's literally dealing monkeys.
That's exactly her job.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
She loves the nickname. She absolutely yeah, well she.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Wouldn't mention it if she didn't, you know. In response
to the claims about her faking Tonka's death, she says,
what good would it do for me? Like, why why
would someone? Why would I do that? What do I
benefit from that?
Speaker 2 (10:17):
I agree, why would you do that? Why would what
would you benefit from hiding Tonka?
Speaker 1 (10:22):
So she claims it serves no purpose for her and
has told Peta that they can come check her house.
But Peter's general counsel, Jared Goodman, He's going to come
up a lot in this episode, said that there'd be
no point in Peter doing that because quote, he wouldn't
be living in the house like a child, and that
there were no visible enclosures on her property that could
properly contain an adult chimpanzee off Tonkas says, makes sense.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
I completely agree with that.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
And finally, as Nick and I called in the previous episode,
without watching this one, Peta brings up Travis the Champanzee.
Oh yeah, So we get to see home videos with
Sandra Harold, who is Travis's owner, and they play some
of the nine one one audio that you heard our
coverage of the Travis story. So the documentary takes us
(11:04):
to Stamford, Connecticut, and we meet Sandra Harold. She's also
known as Sandy by those who know her her stepdaughter
Carried to Blassie and Carrie confirms that Sandy bought Travis
from Connie for forty grand in the nineteen nineties.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
That is so much fucking money.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
It's gone up twenty grand since.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Okay, what do you think that is, like adjusted forty grand?
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Well, but nowadays it's sixty Well yeah, but I mean
like a just.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
To forty grand back then, it's gonna be more than
sixty grand nowadays.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
I'm not a math earlier. Yeah, so the home videos
we see are wild. We see Travis drinking wine from
a glass at the dinner table. We see him bathing
the bathtub with his owners, using a toilet, cooking his
own meals in the microwave. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
We get to see a video from ping. That's fun. Yeah,
well it's it gets a picture of him ping.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Yeah either way, we unfortunately get to see him peing.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
He's bathing with children, not just his owners, with like
babies pretty much.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Yeah, well he is cool. I don't know what chims
look like, what ages, but he's like still a younger chim,
but like toddler sized. Yes. Yeah, so, according to Carry,
the stepdaughter, Travis went everywhere with Sandy so neither he
nor Sandy was ever alone, which was quote perfect to
which I say, a dog a dog, get a dog,
(12:17):
get an emotional support dog if you're that worried about
being lonely. We also, I was so excited get to
meet Frank Shiafari, who was the responding police officer to
the whole Travis attack and confirms that he knew Travis
because Travis was very well known in the Stanford, Connecticut community,
because he was the only chimpanzee and he was everywhere.
(12:39):
And we actually see Frank like a younger Frank with
a younger Travis, like pictures them playing, which is crazy,
and it is weird to me when you watch the
documentary and you see people talk about Travis when he
was younger. They talk about him so kindly and like
everyone's excited and smiling. It's just so eerie, like knowing
what happens and the way that people talk so kindly
(13:01):
about him. And obviously none of this is Travis's fault,
you know, it's all Sandy's and Connie's fault. Frankly, but yeah,
but that's chimpanzees. Yes, yes, they are sweet.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
They're fun when they're in a good mood, but they
can pop off in any moment like, yeah, that's that's
They're a wild fucking animal. They're not domesticated, absolutely, saying
his parents are from the wild.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Yeah, and escaped, Yes, and died because of it. Yes.
So Carrie, the stepdaughter said, when Travis turned six or seven,
Sandy started to realize that he was too much to handle,
but pretended that everything was fine. Then in two thousand
and three and one hundred and seventy pound, Travis jumped
out of the family's car as they were on a
ride and was causing such a commotion in the neighborhood
(13:44):
that he jumped out into it actually caused the lock in,
and then the police had to respond and it took well. Actually,
Frank the police officer we're talking about, says that Travis
was running around spanking people and quote it was kind
of humorous at the time, which he says lightheartedly, And.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
I'm like, how can you say that because they didn't know.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
They thought he was now he knows, you know what
I mean, it's just the way he said. I was like,
oh my god. So it took two hours before Travis
was lured back into the car with ice cream ice cream.
The important part to note here he was not put
back in the car. They could not handle him. He was.
It wasn't until he decided to go back in the
car that it was over.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Can't control them.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
So apparently after this, the quote Travis Amendment was created,
which made anyone in Connecticut with a fifty plus pound
primate to get a permit, but Carrie said that it
was never enforced, but the mayor of Stanford did tell
Sandy that this could never happen again or there would
be serious repercussions.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
So I'm assuming to get that permit. We don't know,
we haven't looked into him, assuming to get that permit,
Like it includes enclosures and like care for the animal,
probably not having him live, you know, in your house.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yeah, but i mean I'm sure that's since changed, given
like other regulations that have changed. But like, yeah, who
would enforce that animal control? Correct that? Yeah? The USDA,
Like that's federal, so it's like already outside of Connecticut's Yeah,
so it's just like who would be doing it? So
I get why it wasn't enforced, but also why make
a law and then not enforce it?
Speaker 2 (15:15):
That's just me. Yeah, well, just tell me have the option.
You always have the option afterwards.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Yeah, So after his escape in two thousand and three,
Travis was confined to the house, which was obviously a
very different life than what he had been living up
until then. And then roughly a year after that, so
like around two thousand and four, Sandy's husband, Jerry was
diagnosed with stomach cancer and passed away pretty quickly, and
Sandy and Travis became very depressed, which I think we
(15:41):
covered in the Travis episode, and Sandy became a bit
of a hoarder, so the house became like a mess.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
From all the videos that they show in the documentary,
he seems like a very loving owner of Jerry. Yeah, oh,
she seems great. Like he seems very kind, very nice.
Like does it seem like he knows a lot about
chimpan z uh how to take care of one?
Speaker 1 (16:02):
No, well, neither to Sandy.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Yeah, correct, either of them do.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
But he seems nice. He seems to really really.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Love I think they of course love him and even
carry the stepdaughter has said that like everyone like he
was another child loved.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah, she says he was well loved. He remember the family.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Yeah, sure, yep.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
So uh.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
But during this time after Jerry's death, Carrie says, and
you know, Travis is locked up. Kerry says that all
Travis would do all day is rock back and forth,
which is like a very stereotypical sign of stress. It's
called stereotypees. You'll see it in zoos sometimes, like if
an animals walking back and forth and like has made
a path, it's called the stereotype. It's usually because they're
(16:40):
either not enriched enough or just like generally stressed or whatever.
So he's not doing well mentally. And we see one
home video where Sandy you know, was talking to Carry
on the phone saying that Travis was depressed, and Sandy
was like, hey, Carry, why don't you bring over your
son to play with Travis? He would love that. So
so the parent, which first I was like, oh my god,
(17:02):
don't let a child near. So it's a child. But
he's like over six feet.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Tall, he's probably sixteen seventeen.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Yeah, he definitely doesn't look like an adult, like he's
eighteen around eighteen, I would say. So we see a
home video of this kid, I'm gonna call him a
kid because he's Carry's kid and Travis is let out
of his cage, takes off the kid's shoe and then
like runs away with it, and Sandy's like, oh, he
wants you to chase him. So the kid goes to
(17:29):
like kind of chase Travis.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
But he's he's reluctant. Yeah, he's not really fully into it.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
So Travis comes over starts beating on his side, and
then the kid is like, hah, get him away from me,
and then Travis grabs his arm and tries to pull
him down, and Sandy starts screaming at him and tells
him enough, and he does listen and stop.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Sandy starts screaming immediately if she knows right away, like
something's not right, yeah, like right away. Yeah, So, which
is very concerning when you invite someone over your home
to play with your chimpanzee. Yeah, what the fuck?
Speaker 1 (18:02):
That's like that's her grandkid. Oh my god, when you
really think about it, like if it's her stepdaughter's son,
Like that's her grandchild. Yes. So then we move on
to the Fateful Day February sixteenth, two thousand and nine.
Sandy had plans with a friend but was running late
because Travis grabbed her keys. Clearly wanting to go with
her and wasn't being cooperative. Unfortunately for her, Charla Nash
(18:27):
happened to call Sandy at this time and then offered
to come over and help. So, of course, if you've
listened to our Travis coverage or just know about this case,
if you haven't listened to our coverage or any coverage
of it, I would suggest you listen to the episode
because we'll go into it. But we won't go fully
into the attack here, but we see in this documentary
pictures of the scene, including bloody clothes, pictures of Charla's
(18:50):
bloody scalp which is separate from her body, the knife
that Sandy stabbed Travis with in an attempt to get
him off of Charla, and then pictures of Travis trying
to break into a police cruiser, which we come to
find out is Frank Frank to note, the responding police officer,
just an average friendly neighborhood cops. When you see the documentary, He's.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Just a dude.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
He's just a happy little guy. Like he is, not
some big buff swat team guy that's equipped to deal
with a two hundred pound hip pits.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Now, He's just a retirab old man, you know, hanging out.
He's not that one likes so well, he's party in
his sixties.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Yeah, yeah, so he said when he responded. That day,
as you would hurt, like would have heard in our coverage,
Travis came up to his driver's side door, ripped the
door off of the cruiser, not open the door, ripped
it off, and then was growling in Frank's face as
his teeth were dripping with Charla's blood. I would have
(19:47):
started shooting way before this, well, way before this. You're
trying to figure out what's going on. I mean, it
all happened really fast. So Frank like has a moment,
like there's a pause where Travis doesn't immediately obviously try
to kill him.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Because again there's no door between them.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Yep. They's just looking sitting in his car seat. So
Frank shoots at Travis a few times. Then Travis takes
off into the house and you hear nine one one
audio clips of Sandy whispering like he's not dead.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
It's really creepy.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
It's so creepy because you have to wonder where is Sandy.
Has she locked herself in a car or she in the.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
House, so the nine to one one operator keeps saying
stay in the car, so she must be in a
different car, must be in a different car.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
There is literally I kept thinking of this when she
was whispering that you are not safe anywhere. No, no,
in your car. He obviously can rip the door off.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
You break the window.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
You're not safe in the house. Yeah, you break the window.
You can't climb a tree. They're chimpanzees like you. Literally,
unless you like take a boat out into a lake,
you're not safe from them. So that being said, we
all know what happens next with Charla, and Travis ultimately
dies in the house in his cage. But there were
(20:56):
no criminal charges filed against Sandra Harold because she claims
quote no one made her aware of the dangers of
owning a chimpanzee.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Fucking idiot.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
I so, first of all, common sense, Yeah, common sense, yep,
you know it's so funny too. I'm researching for another
episode right now, which involves me researching like ancient people
in North America that lived around mammoths and saber tooth
tigers and short faced bears. I don't know, just seems
like us as a species should know wild animal in
(21:30):
home bad?
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Yes, not safe.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Yeah, yeah, there's a reason they're engaged like it just
it shouldn't be an excuse that no one explicitly wrote
down on a piece of paper, hey, this might not
be safe for you. And she admitted to her step
daughter that she didn't feel that this was safe anymore.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
It's so it's wild to me because like if a
friend comes over your house and your dog attacks them, Yep,
you are liable.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah it's a dog, yeah, just it.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Could be a little fucking twenty p whatever. Yeah, you're liable.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Put a chimpanzee ripping your friend's face off, ripping her
hands off, your best friend, your best friend, Like it's
absolutely fucking and you have no responsibility, you know. And
they just put that new lawn, like we talked about
like years before that, they literally put a line for
this chimpanzee and they couldn't force it with her, like, yep,
what are we with the chimp that it was named after?
(22:23):
Like was she like legally grandfather den so they couldn't,
Like I don't, I don't even know. It's it's insane.
It's absolutely absolutely insane, And I.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Don't understand why if Sandra couldn't be charged because quote,
like no one told her about this. Why wasn't Connie charged.
Connie's the one dealing these animals. If Connie's not making
it apparent, like abundantly clear to people how dangerous these
animals can be, Connie should be held liable. Yes. Yeah. Anyways,
(22:50):
we go on to hear from Carrie, who says that, like,
right after this happened, Sandy told her not to tell anyone,
but if police had stripped her down that day and
looked at her body, they would see that she was
covered in bruises caused by Travis.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
I don't know how she didn't like get medical attention
after all this, Like you know, she wasn't.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Maybe she did, but they didn't like look around, you know.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Yeah. And then unfortunately, after we see these horrible pictures
and hear all about this horrible event, we just cut
back to Tanya sitting on a couch watching Tonka in movies,
laughing and saying, how he's so cute insane. If this
was your child that died and you were watching videos
of them, would you be like, Ti, how cute look
(23:33):
at him? No, you'd be distraught. Yeah, it's only a
few months later. Yes, so PETA's general counsel Jared noted that, yeah, honestly,
it's awesome. We don't disagree with PETA here. So here's
the making us like PETA. It's a really hard stance
for us to be in. They're not wrong one hundred
percent of the time, and in this series they're not. Yeah.
(23:55):
So they note that the Endangered Species Act, which was
signed in the nineteen seventies, left captive chimpanzees out from
being protected, so that they could still be used in
labs for like medical experiments and in movies and TV
and stuff. But in twenty fifteen, the US Fish and
Wildlife Service declared that all chimps, even captive ones, were
(24:16):
protected under the ESA, but allegedly, according to PETA, once again,
this is rarely enforced. So organizations like PEDA are the
ones that have to step in to pursue these cases,
which I do understand. I get that someone's got to
do it exactly.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
The government can't go to every single person who owns
an animal, an exotic ninjaan animal, and you know, it does.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Seem like a thing that they should regulate though, so
that they could do that.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
But oh, of course, of course. Yeah, but PETA has
the resources. They have the money to go after these
people and pay the lawyers and do everything to do
and then the government.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Has to act. Yeah, and there are a separate entity
from the government, so it probably makes it easier for
them to do certain things. Correct. So they noted that
this is why it's so important for them to find Tanka,
because if they aren't helping him, there's literally no one
else that will. No, then we get to hear Tanya's
stupid ass rant that she won't eat those animal crackers
that come in like the red boxes because quote Peter
(25:08):
had them take the bars off of it, because no
animals deserve to be in cages. Like she's like making sny.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Common or a weird thing to like have a stance on.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
So she's like advocating that the animals should be in cages. Yeah,
because she's like, oh, well why can't they like.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Well, to be fair, she is right, if you have
a champanzee, it should be in a fucking cage. Here's
the idea, though, don't have a champanzee.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Yeah, well yes, chimps if you own them, should be
in cages. But also you shouldn't own them. They should
correct be in homes or any you know what I mean. Yeah,
so she's like weirdly advocating for them to be in cages,
and she just is like bitching about Peter.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Yeah, she's just she doesn't really cared about the fucking
animal crackers.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Yeah. Anyways, back to Tonka, Tanya said, if you remember
that she had a vet write a certified letter to
the court about Tanka dying good vet. That certified vet
was named Jerry Swegan. That man is Tanya's husband, who
is in fact not a vet an area information that
her legal team did not share with the court.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
That's fucking insane. I don't know how you have a
legal team.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Uh yeah, okay, I don't know what it becomes by
the end of the film, but it's it's not it's sparse.
So they stated that Tanka was cremated in the backyard,
which I don't know if this is like her new
property or what. At one hundred and seventy degrees, which
Peta is like, you can't cook food at that no, Like,
there's no way you burned a like two hundred pounds
(26:28):
ship at one hundred and seventy degrees, but then Tanya
was like, oh, sorry, we were rushing and we like
left off a zero, so it was actually like seventeen
hundred degrees, and like they're just like not acknowledging that
that's like the correct temperature. It's like, oh, so you
googled the correct temperature and then now you're like mad
that they're not actually yeah, yeah, a lot of well
actually a.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Fucking idiot, Like what an absolute fucking it because there's
there's two numbers there, It's like one sixty five two,
one hundred and seventy degrees, Like that means two numbers?
How to get fucked up?
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Yeah, she did give a range.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Yeah, like what an absolute fucking dumb ass.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Just even if you're lying, like that's you're making up
a number, why would you not pick a back?
Speaker 2 (27:04):
She could have picked a ridiculous suff She picked ten
thousand degrees. That would have been more believable than a hundred.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
She could pick like four hundred and twenty five. Yeah,
you cook like chicken ad or you know what I mean. Yeah,
I lived in one hundred and twenty degree heat for
three fucking years. Like are you cremated? Uh? Not exactly, Okay, well,
there you go. So you're a living proof that this
did not happen.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
What an absolute dumbass. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
So she then shows what she claims are Tonka's ashes,
which are a bag of uniform looking brown powder that's
probably like clay, it's red dirt or just like it.
Honestly could be like that magnetic sand that kids play with.
Yet that would be more believable. Not even the right
color of Have you seen animal ashes? I guess yeah,
have you ever looked through them?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Not like that?
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Now, they have like little bits of bone in them
and stuff. They don't look all the same. No, animals
aren't all the same.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yeah. No, that's not fucking sand, that's yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
No. So we then get a montage of Tanya talking
shit about Jared Goodman, the General count Silver Peta, and
it is pretty funny. But she also like literally has
a voodoo doll that looks like this man and is
wearing this man's clothes.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
It's a pee Herman doll.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Oh, it's a peewe herman. She keeps pee Herman. Yeah,
it's it's a little unsettling. And she also says to
the camera, I don't want to kill him, I just
want to maime him, been there, been there?
Speaker 2 (28:19):
I get that.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Very similar to Tiger King.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Yep, so except someone actually did die.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
In Tiger King. Yeah, oh true, Yeah, this is about Yeah. Well,
so we didn't see a phone call where Jared Goodman
like politely asks her about her supplying new evidence about
Tonka's death, and then she goes off on him, saying
that she's villainized. And she said that she so innostantly
went to just help Conye out with the chimps out
of the kindness of her heart. And then after she's
(28:47):
done like popping off, there's this really long, awkward pause
and then Jared just like coughs, and then there's another
pause and Tanya goes like, so earnestly, is that all
acknowledge this question? No, as far as we see on
the camera, right, Like there could have been an entire
new phone like phone call past that, but like from
what we saw, it was really funny. The filming is
(29:08):
very funny.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
I assuming this is all happened during COVID. I'm assuming
there's some type of deposition that they're doing over the phone.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Yeah, so, like she must have answered the questions eventually,
but like we don't see it.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Yeah. So we then see Jared Goodman again, who's the
Peter's general counsel, and he goes on to say that
Peter's actively looking for Tonka, to the point that they're
sending people to animal auctions like wildlife auctions to look
for him, like if he's up for sale. They're hiring
private investigators that are using drones to look at properties
where they think he might be. They're monitoring the Internet,
including looking at Tanya's Facebook. And then somehow, in a
(29:45):
strange turn of events, a psychic is the one that
helps Pete out, I would have thought. So Peter gets
a subpoena, which is a weird string of words. Peter
gets a subpoena for text messages between the client of
this psychic because the client was Tanya's friend who Tanya
texted and said that she was out buying groceries for
(30:06):
Tonka the dead chimp, the dead chimp, well after he
was dead, allegedly. So in January fifth, twenty twenty two,
five months after Tnka's disappearance, Peter brings Tanya back to
court and we see her attend the Zoom court session
and in classic Zoom fashion, everyone freezes.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
It's very funny.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
It's really funny. Once again, the filming in this pretty good,
which makes me think, yeah, we'lley business, we'll get there.
So in this zoom court, Tanya claims that because Jared
is like, hey, we got this text message, what's this about?
And she just goes, u uh yeah, that's referring to
my capuchin monkey that I rescued and I named him Tonka,
(30:46):
and Jared just it is like god, yeah right. He's like,
all right, when did you acquire this monkey? And she
was like it was January, which would have been a
full year. Well so she's like January, No, that's not true. Okay,
let me think it was actually July fifth, just to
remind you, conveniently, the day that this is happening is
(31:09):
January fifth. So she just picked the first month that
she the first number that came to head, the first number,
which was the day that it was yep. So Jared
is just like all right, moving on, and he asks
if she was the one who found Tonka dead, and
then she puts on the water works so hard and
says that she found him found Tonka unresponsive in his
(31:30):
cage and poked him with a PVC pipe and that
he was barely moving, so she just like waited a
few minutes staring at him, were like have to believe,
And then she opened the cage and went in and
he was dead and.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Never called an actual VET or anything.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Yeah, there's no record of anyone being like even Connie
being called.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
There's no photos, there's no camera crew that's there.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
And when she's relaying this, she's like, you know what.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
I mean, Like, it's the worst fake crust, so annoying
for someone who was so dramatic and so over the top,
you think she would have had like the fake crime mastered. No,
she has, no. It's horrible.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
So by the end she's literally screaming crying and she's like, guys, stop,
I can't do this. So the judge calls for like
a ten minute recess so she can calm down. Then
immediately after the recess, after she was just screaming crying,
Tanya whispers, not crying at all. He is such a
fucking bastard. And this is like fifteen seconds later, yeah,
(32:28):
like maybe, to which someone on the zoom calls like, uh, Tanya,
just letting you know that you're not on mute, and
she was like thank.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
You, and then she goes back crying.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yeah, and the captions literally say, rezume.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Sobbing, sobbing. It's insane, absolutely fucking psychotic.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
So Peter calls doctor Frederick Snow as a witness, who
Tanya still on the zoom call says, quote, he looks
like a real dork.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
This dude has a fucking resume.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
So doctor Snow has worked examining mass graves for the
International Commission of Missing Persons An has worked as an
agent for the U United Nations as a forensic anthropologist
in Bosnia.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yeah, it's fucking insane.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Yeah. So we were watching this with a friend, our
friend Zach, who was on a bonus episode before, and
you both were like, oh, he's got people after him.
Oh yeah, if he's looking into like missing mass graves, like.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
He he has exposed and shit, you can tell he's cold.
He don't give a fuck.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Yeah, well you can't when you're in that field, correct.
So he admits though, he's like, well, it've never worked
on like a cremated chimp, so this would be interesting.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Yeah, I'm sure Pete's paying him big money to, you know,
come help them out.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Yeah, of course. So we then see doctor Snow with
partially fleshed pig and cowbones, and what he's doing is
like trying to simulate what it would look like if
Tonka had been actually cremated, but he's doing it in
like a commercial crematory rather than just a backyard fire pit,
which Tanya is kind of saying happened.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
And this is just like a thing they're doing for
the show to kind of tell the viewer what I.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Mean, forensics, like they do do experiments like this.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Yeah, but he knows that already, like he doesn't need
to go do experience. This is just for the show. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
So what we see after like at least two hours
I would say, of burning, so it takes a while,
and he just has chunks of bone, not a full
body by any means. And we see taken out of
the crematory. We see a ton of bone fragments, like
big bone fragments, and these are bones from pigs and cows.
So obviously a chimpanzee not as big as a cow,
(34:23):
depending on the pig, maybe so like somewhere in between.
So you would assume that a two hundred pound chimp
would leave behind a lot of bones sizeable bone fragments.
So his point is like, if you were to just
burn the chimp, there would still be these bone.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Fragments, even if what they're saying is true.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Yeah, and then the bones get put into a processor
and are made into what we think of when we
see ashes of like our pets or something like. They're
crushed down and put.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
In like bags, which is never mentioned at all in
Tanya's statement.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Yeah, she never says like we pulvarized his body to
look like this uniform bag of brown dirt. She even
says it looks like dirt. Correct.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Now, they just burnt him and then swiped up the ashes.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Is what they say. Yeah. So the point here being,
unless you have a processor, there would be very large
bone fragments left over, like it would be obvious.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
And the fragments that were left over after the pulverizing
it's still are bigger than the fucking sand she had
in the bag exactly. Yeah, not the same color or anything.
It's clear if.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Any of you have, like have a pet cremated. Unfortunately,
you see if you look at the bag, there are
like little fragments of your animal in there, Like it's
not uniform by any means, though, so doctor Snow testifies, no,
he does not believe it's possible that Tonko was cremated
where Tanya claims that he was. Tanya, who is for
some reason allowed to ask some man questions, asks if
(35:43):
he's ever actually been to the location where Tonko was cremated,
to which doctor Snow says, no, he wasn't asked, which
is a fair point.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
But like, is she representing herself in this core cat.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
It's not made clear, but she is doing way more
talking than she should correct as a that is under.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Fire for this, Yes, absolutely insane.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
So in the end, the judge says Tanya's evidence is
inconsistent and she has made things up throughout the entire
course of this like litigation and is continuing to make
things up. However, the judge still doesn't know if Tonka
is alive and cannot confirm if he's dead, and denies
the motion to put Tanya in contempt of court and
says that if Peta really wants this to move forward,
(36:26):
they're going to need better evidence that Tonka is alive.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
I obviously don't know a thing about the law, but like,
if the judge believes that she's lying under oath. Why
can't you like she, like the judge says in the film,
I believe Tany is lying about these things. That is
not enough to put her in contemption.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
She doesn't that proof. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. Yeah yeah,
that's the main thing. There's no there's the text evidence.
But if literally all you have is a text that
has Tanka's name in it. And then she's said, well,
I have a monkey named Tonka. It doesn't you don't know? Well,
conveniently for us the viewers, Tanya like. So after this,
(37:03):
Tanya hangs up the zoom call, hugs her husband and says,
we just have to keep him hidden, and the husband
kind of looks at the camera like, eh, like uncomfortable. Yeah,
And then Tanya calls Connie. They're celebrating, and she's like,
we won. And then Tanya leads the film crew into
her basement where she is keeping a very alive Tanka.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
And that is our coverage of episode two gone ape.
We're mad. I hate Tanya. She's a stupid, lying idiot.
It's just so funny how many times she looks at
the camera and she's like, you're gonna question my integrity?
You have none. Yeah, just you're the worst. She's the worst.
I hate her.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
I am very convinced that she just wants the attention
to the publicity from being on the film.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
I could see that because if she, like she calls
these chimps her children, if she legitimately loved them, why
would you not want them to have a better life,
Like you'd rather him be stuck in a basement and
not see the son for the rest of his life
to make you happy. But you say that you love him.
That's fucked. Also, you're claiming that these are your children.
(38:21):
You're lying about his death, telling people this is a
bag of dirt that's your son allegedly. That's fucked. Yeah.
If she really knew what it was like to lose
a child, like she would never say any of that.
And she's an evil, terrible person. I hate her. I
hate her.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
I hate her, and you can tell her. Her husband, like,
I don't think he wants something to do with this.
He seems like he's like this is fucked.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
How I mean, like, obviously this is a documentary, right,
Like it's made for our entertainment.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Who it's very much made for entertainment? Is this is
not an informational documentary like.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
It is, and it isn't like we don't know how
much like the film crew made happen, like you know
what I mean. We also noted too that the fake
like the proxy director, is seen throughout this We actually
in this episode don't see the real director, and we're
wondering if that's because like they don't want Tanya in
them to know that he's the actual director because he's
got to be famous after Tiger King.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
So I I would predict that a lot of the
in person filming with Tanya and the proxy director probably
happened over the course of like a week or something
like that, probably got together and did like all this
filming sure at once. Yeah wait during the core case.
He probably should up for the core case specifically. Yeah,
so like the other director just never even makes an.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Appearance, Yeah, which would make sense that they're lying.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Yeah, exactly if they're lying to them, which I also
don't like, like it's fun, you know what.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
I don't care about lying to Tanya anymore because Tonya
is a stupid bitch and she's keeping this champ in
a basement.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
It seems like shitty journalism, Like it's investigates journalism, but
still it's yeah sketchy. Well she she sucks, she really sucks.
And yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
So now we're left at the end of this episode, like, Okay,
did the film crew they must have known about Tonka.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
They must be for at the end of the episode.
The video that they show at the very end of
episode two, it's grainy, it's not very like that. The
video seems to like it's a hidden camera.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Like, yeah, when she takes them down to see Tonka.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Yes, so someone was wearing a hidden camera when they
took the film crew or whoever is wearing the hidden
camera whenever they walk down to see Tonka wherever he is.
I still don't know if he's in her house, like
they don't necessarily specifically, so I say that's her basement.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Yeah, I just assumed it was her basement.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
I don't think it is. I don't think she's that stupid.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Oh, I think she's supid.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
She's stupid enough to keep a fucking chimpanzee in a
basement in a ten anyway six fucking cage, Like.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
Yeah, yeah, it's a it's like half of a room.
It's like it's not even it's like a closet. Essentially,
it's like.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
No other animals down there. There's no window, yeah, like yeah,
there's no enrichment in there, like nope, it's it's terrible.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
How and there is I am telling you literally no
way for her to clean that enclosure to keep him
separate from her, no, which is the bare minimum for
any end. Yeah, there's no way she can clean that
without interacting with him. No, So either it's not getting
cleaned or she is interacting with him. So anyways, that
was our coverage, and uh, we're gonna watch episode three
(41:05):
and four and we will put that coverage on Patreon.
But yeah, we're assuming the rest of it is a
lot of legal stuff.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
If it's really really good.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
That yeah, we'll see, we'll see. Well, thank you all
so much for listening. This was episode eighty seven. We'll
be back in two weeks with another. Well, I was
gonna say another great guest. You're a great guest. Happy birthday.
I appreciate thank you to everyone who wished me happy birthday.
Oh yes, it was so sweet.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
As she's coming up, it's gonna be passed by the
time this episode comes.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
Out, it'll be days.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Act my face is coming up. So hopefully everyone wants
your happy birthday. If not, well, are you gonna post?
Are you gonna post? I need to get control of
the fucking Instagram story real quick.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Yeah, good luck? All right. Thank you so much to
all of you. If you oh, we have the new
merch with the new logo, check out the website.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
I like it.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Get out a live podcast dot com. Thank you to
our patrons for suggesting new colors.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Check the sizing chart.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Check the sizing chart for sure, because the T shirts
run a little big, but other guys, the crew next
great perfect size size serious. Check out our episode description
for links to our social media. Thank you so much
to Josh Walsh for making our intro music, and thank
you to Jesse Walsh for editing. That's it. We'll be
back in two weeks with a dope guest about a
different story than this horrifying one. Well horrifying in its
(42:18):
own way, but different
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