April 18, 2020 • 52 mins
"It’s your story, you own it, you get to write the story that you’re going to tell, you get to write the story that you’re going to live" - Shennandoah Connor
In this episode, I spoke with Shennandoah Connor, Vice President of Strategy and Client Services at Connor Creative about how advisors can focus on their client’s perspectives and issues rather than their own. We discussed the application of behavioral economics to better serve clients. We also discovered unique issues to women in the financial services industry.
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Bio: Shennandoah Connor is a graduate of the “get ‘er done” school of thought, Shennandoah Connor takes strategy and execution to the extreme, rapidly developing and implementing both client and company initiatives while maintaining high standards of excellence. Shennandoah actively writes and speaks on topics related to marketing, leadership, and business for many conferences and organizations including SXSW Interactive, Women in Finance, the Institute for Leadership in Capital Projects, the Society for Marketing Professional Services, the Women’s Global Leadership Conference in Energy, and others.
The Get Ready Money Podcast and its guests do not provide investment advice. All content is for educational purposes. Guest opinions do not necessarily reflect the opinions of The Get Ready Money Podcast and Tony Steuer.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:13):
Welcome to the get ready with Tony stirrer podcast
in partnership with insurancenerds, I'm pleased to be joined
today by shin Andela Connor.
Good morning.
In this episode, we'll bediscussing behavioral economics
and how advisors can focus onour client's perspectives and
issues.
(00:35):
Shenandoah is a graduate of the,get her done school thought, uh,
Shenandoah Connor takes strategyand execution to the extreme
rapidly developing andimplementing both client and
company initiatives whilemaintaining high standards of
excellence.
She marries Sarah experiencetraining in, uh, change
management and organizationaldevelopment with their 20 plus
(00:58):
years of experience providingmarketing and strategy services
for clients in the AEC, uh,struggling this morning,
financial services, technologyand healthcare industries.
She actively writes and speakson topics related to marketing
leadership and business for manyconferences and organizations,
(01:19):
including, uh, SXSW interactivewomen in finance, the Institute
for leadership and capitalprojects, the society for
marketing professional services,the women's global leadership
conference in energy and others.
Yeah, that's a few things.
It keeps you busy at Bush.
(01:40):
You're a mom, right?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Hey, that's another full time job.
And as vice president ofstrategy and client services at
Connor creative, she is leadingthe implementation of new
technologies and services whilebringing their full suite of
marketing and communicationscapabilities to the market.
So there we go.
That's about Shenandoah.
So let's plunge in and learnmore about you and what you're
(02:07):
up to.
So maybe, yeah.
Fantastic.
So let's, uh, talk about how yougot started.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Uh, well, it's kind of funny, starting a story.
I started very, very young.
Um, I started learning about,uh, everything that I employed
today, the sales, the marketing,how to influence people, how
they think, what affects theirdecisions.
Um, actually in middle school,my father, there's a flight
coming at me.
Um, my father was a farmer, but,uh, for health reasons had to
(02:39):
change careers and went into, uh, sales at an RV dealership.
But yeah, he's one of those whenhe was going through learning
everything that he needed tolearn, he went through the Dale
Carnegie stuff and all that.
He came home and did it taughtit to us kids.
So I'm the oldest of three andall of us went through sales
training in elementary andmiddle cause he was, you know,
(03:00):
that's how you learn, you teachit to others.
And so that's what he was.
We were his, you know, captured,captive audience, so to speak.
Um, so I started learning itthen and, um, always worked with
my parents in some capacity, um,you know, working on the
weekends or helping them out.
I've always had a knack forwriting.
And so it would help my dad withdeveloping sales letters and
things.
(03:20):
But I really started, um, kindof working as a copywriter and
doing marketing and support, uh,in high school, I wanted to
participate in a pageant, but myparents were of the ilk that if
you want something that'sextracurricular, you have to
figure it out yourself.
And so they would allow us to,um, get sponsors and sell
advertisements and the programfor the pageant.
(03:41):
And, uh, but they didn't give usany sales materials for that.
So I developed my own salesletter, supply it just after me
today.
Um, but yeah, I developed my ownsales letter and got my Sunday
best and started going around toall the different companies, um,
where I grew up, which was lessversus New Mexico.
And I got the entire pageantpaid for, uh, plus some gigs
(04:04):
doing some sales letters.
I was so good at it.
They wanted me to help writetheir marketing materials.
So, so I got started, um, and italways has been kind of a side
gig until, um, I had mydaughter, I was a single mom
with a four month old baby andhad to figure out a way to make
a living in a way that, um, youknow, it wasn't just, you know,
(04:25):
childcare is so expensive and asa single parent, it was just
very difficult.
So I started freelancing again,um, when she was born and
quickly grew an agency fromthat.
So kind of the roundabout waythat it ended up
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Well.
Fantastic.
Yeah.
And let that fire.
I know he can be booked nextweek.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
I don't know I had the doors open earlier cause
it's a nice morning, but thatwas probably a bad idea.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Well, maybe it's a Dale Carnegie fly and you know,
he's persistent.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
See how well my meditation on focus is working
today.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Well, that's great.
Um, and I think one of thethings you said, uh, that's just
so important.
Um, and the lesson you learnedearly on that it's, it's about
teaching others.
It's what we learn, but that thekey is not selling.
The key is teaching.
And, uh, that's what I loveabout what you're doing and uh,
(05:22):
your school of thought.
So let's get into, you know,what you're doing today, what
you,
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yeah.
And I kind of on that pointright there, one of the things I
do quite a bit, or what I callit is educating to conversion.
So I work with a lot ofknowledge-based companies.
There are financial services orprofessional services where they
have, um, very involvedtechnical, uh, products and
services that they deliver or,and they're working with mostly
(05:47):
with B2B.
Some of them are B to C.
Um, so we do a mix of both whereyou have to really educate a
client before they becomeclient.
And throughout the wholeprocess, it's just part of the
selling and customer service, uh, funnel that you need to be
able to continually educatethem.
So there's a lot of blogging andthought leadership that happens
(06:09):
through that.
Um, but it's also reallythinking about translating
really technical topics intoterms and language, um, and
stories that the customer canunderstand and that they can
relate to, um, to wherever theyare in the process.
And so that's a big part of whatwe do.
Uh, you know, there's a lot ofdifferent aspects that can go
(06:30):
into it from a, from a tacticstandpoint, whether we're
talking about social media oremail marketing or doing
strategic partnerships orwebinars or, um, events, those
types of things, those are justkind of the ways we go about
really trying to connect withthe right type of clients that
would be a good fit forwhomever.
Um, you know, we're representingand really just getting that
(06:53):
thought leadership and expertiseout there and educating them in
a way that is bringing themalong for the journey that's
going to lead to a sell for ourclient, but that is ultimately
gonna lead to a positivesolution and outcome for their
end user as well.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Definitely.
And, and I think that's, um,another key thing it's that it's
about a positive solution isthat you want people to walk
away feeling good about whatthey've done is, um, I know so
often in the financial servicesindustry is so often clients
walk away and they're eitherpuzzled or they don't feel great
(07:28):
about the process.
And, uh, you know, they havejust this view of, uh,
especially the insuranceindustry, but I'd say across the
whole financial servicesindustry of like, yeah, these
are people I got to deal withthat I don't really want to deal
with them.
You know, it's like,
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Well, and I think a lot of that comes when you can
feel when you're not, whenthey're not operating in your
best interests, when they'retrying to meet quotas or
represent a specific products,versus what's the best solution
for the client, you can feelthat sometimes.
And if you can walk away notgetting that great experience,
if, you know, for a fact theydidn't do the due diligence,
(08:07):
even if it is maybe even theright product for you, but they
didn't do that due diligence onthe front end of really getting
to know you and understandingwhat your needs were and drawing
that connection between whereyou're at, what you need, what
your goals are, your level ofunderstanding and what they're
trying to provide to you.
And that's where that disconnectcan come into play quite a bit.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Okay.
Great.
Great.
Well, I think that leads wellinto our next question is, uh,
you know, what is behavioraleconomics?
I know that's one of yourspecialty areas.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Uh, yeah.
And then with anything that theythrow behavioral on top of it
just means we're applyingpsychology to whatever that is.
So economics, um, classicaleconomics, the models were based
on, you know, very perfectinformation, everybody,
everything they needed to know,everybody had the same
negotiation power, and everybodyalways acted rationally.
(09:01):
They didn't resist change.
They knew it was necessary.
They never did any impulsivebuys.
Everything was very logical andwell thought out.
Um, and as humans we know that'snot true.
We're not logical.
Um, most of the time, we're notactually, especially when it
comes to finances.
That's one of those things where, uh, people can make a lot of
(09:22):
really, um, uh, unhealthydecisions that can impact them
for a very long time because ofemotional reasons.
And so, but also anytime you'retrying to influence someone,
it's not just a logical decisionor just an emotional or a
decision or a psychologicalbased decision, it's a
combination of the two.
And so you have to understandboth in order to really be able
(09:45):
to not only attract a client andkeep a client, but to make the
client happy.
And that's part where it comesinto play from an economic
standpoint, it's more aboutthat.
What incentivizes people, whatinfluences their decisions.
And then as a marketing person,that's what I look at is what
influences people's decisions.
When do they start that youstart to perk up and they start
(10:08):
listening.
What makes them take that nextstep and what makes them stick
around what also keeps them frommaking those decisions that
actually are good for them.
Um, and there's a lot, againwith my background is also in
change management.
So resistance comes up quite abit when you're dealing with,
with anything.
Um, especially if there's, um,and we've talked about this
(10:28):
before, if there's people wannaavoid thoughts of death, people
wanna avoid negative thoughts,but how do you get them to be
proactive while also being awareof they're going to have this
resistance to certain topics orresistance to certain things, or
they're going to have, you know,a certain inherent bias to
things.
And that's basically what itdoes is we're looking at all the
different ways that, um,influences their thought
(10:51):
patterns and how can weincentivize and motivate them to
take the actions we want them totake, or they need to take
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Exactly.
So, you know, and I think that'sa really in the insurance
industry, you're dealing withthe, the first thing you hit on
is people's not really wantingto talk about money and feeling
comfortable with money.
And then you're also dealingwith things that people don't
want to talk about.
They don't want to think abouttheir house burning down or
(11:20):
getting in a car crash orsomebody dying or becoming
disabled.
You know, those are not positiveevents.
So how can advisors and, uh, youknow, other financial service
professionals, you know, apply,uh, behavioral economics to
better serve their clients andto help their clients, you know,
(11:41):
deal with these issues, youknow, w while not being a
trained psychologist.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Right.
Right.
And like a lot of that honestlycomes from the old adage of, you
know, learning to listen andhear what they're actually
saying.
And so stopping and taking thetime to get to know your client
and hearing what their currentpain points are.
And, and if you can meet theirpain points first, and they
start to trust you, they'regoing to listen to you more on
(12:06):
some of these bigger things.
So if you've got a, a youngperson or a newly married
couple, they're not thinkingabout 50, 60 years from now,
this happens, this happens.
This might be an issue they'rethinking about, okay, we want to
buy a house.
We want to do this.
We want it.
And so thinking about wherethey're at, how can you help
them meet those needs, be thattrusted advisor, and really
(12:26):
understand where they're goingin their life, where they're at
in life right now, build thattrust and then start
incrementally moving themtowards these other items.
Um, and then sometimes toothinking about, um, what are the
things that they value and howcan you speak to those values or
standards that they want to liveby and, and kind of draw that
connection.
(12:47):
So that's something we use alot.
Um, so if you have someone whovalues themselves as a provider,
and they value themselves assomeone that provides and
protects for their familyappeal, to that sense of, of
being a provider in yourdiscussions, instead of coming
from a doom and gloomstandpoint, you're coming from
me, you're taking care of yourfamily standpoint.
So it's not about loss.
(13:08):
It's about protecting what'sthere and preserving what's
there.
Um, or if you have, uh, someonethat is, um, I know we talked
about this, a lot of women endup being caregivers, and they're
overwhelmed by a lot of thesethings.
What can you do to address theirconcerns as a primary caregiver,
either have young children orchildren with disabilities or
aging parents, or whatever theirsituation might be thinking
(13:30):
about what are their pain pointsand how can we speak to those
pain points and where they're atright now solve their immediate
problems and start working themover towards addressing the
other items that they need toaddress.
So often everybody wants to comewith, okay, here's the full
package of everything that youneed, or here's ultimately the
best thing.
And if they're not either thereyet, or they're so overwhelmed
(13:51):
by their current situation tothem, that's like, okay, well,
that's not what I need rightnow.
Or like you said, the other thanto try and avoid that until they
feel that they have, um, arelationship in a, in a bond
with you.
Um, and until that's developed,and it's really hard to really
sell them on anything much lessthe whole kitten caboodle.
So that's definitely how I, howI advise our clients
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Definitely.
Well, and I think, um, is thatwhat you're really saying is, is
you have to that people can't.
And I found this myself assometimes, you know, taking in
the whole picture at a singletime, you know, at one point it
is kind of challenging and youhave to have people focus in on
(14:35):
one component of the plan tostart leading them through the
entire plan.
Um, so how do you, um, recommendand how do you help people focus
on one specific aspect of abigger solution?
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Well, part of that first is, um, doing kind of your
customer discovery.
So really everything you have tostart by understanding your
customer first.
So often clients come in andthey want to sell a specific
product, or they have their owngoals that they're trying to
reach.
Um, but in order for us to drawthat connection between what the
client, what they're wantingfrom an organizational
(15:12):
standpoint, whatever quotasthey're trying to reach,
whatever products they're tryingto sell, we have to first think
about, okay, what is theaudience that you're trying to
reach out?
What are their key pain pointsrelated to this?
What are their concerns?
What are their interests relatedto this?
And we do that initial discoveryfirst and think about, okay, how
can we meet them, where theyare, and then start drawing that
(15:34):
those connections from, okay,here's where they're at.
Here's their pain points.
This is what you offer andworking our way backwards to
meeting them where they are andslowly bringing them along.
And that definitely does meanhaving more steps in the
process.
And I have a lot of clients thatare very high energy CEOs, and
they want to get there fast andthey want to convert right away
and, you know, just really makeit happen, but really for us to
(15:57):
do it well, we've got to breakit down.
Um, because even we've all beenthere.
If you get too much thrown atyou, once you just shut off, if
you get too many emails at once,if you get this giant brochure
with all this technical jargonin it, once you're not going to
go through it, but if you canget little incremental steps
that address a specific pointand has a single call to action,
(16:19):
um, like this is your next step.
And really thinking about it inthose baby steps, um, from, you
know, step a step B step C don'ttry and go from a to Z right
away.
And that's typically how we goabout it.
Um, a lot of times it does helpto have that outside perspective
is, again, we're so jaded by ourown wants and needs and goals as
(16:39):
an organization, I had to getthe same way, um, where you're
focused on just trying to meetyour own needs, that it's hard
sometimes for you to see theother side of the equation.
Um, and it's also sometimes hardfor you to see where that
starting point might be.
Um, as a lot of times, it's notwhere the client actually starts
engaging with you is notnecessarily where you need to
(17:00):
start engaging with them.
Naturally.
Um, the example I use a lot oftimes, it's like with the
hospital.
So often they wait until apatient comes in.
That's the point that the, thecustomer journey starts for
them, but that's not when thecustomer journey starts, the
customer journey starts whenthey start having symptoms and
not feeling well.
And that can be weeks or monthsbefore they actually show up in
(17:20):
the hospital.
And it doesn't end when they'redischarged.
It continues for several monthsafter.
So from where we're at, we haveto think about when are they
going to start thinking aboutthese decisions and how can we
start getting in front of thembefore it's time for them to
actually make that decision andbe that resource that's already
positioned for them long beforethey actually have the need.
(17:41):
So those are really thedifferent steps that we take
really thinking about lookingoutside of your organization and
understanding the client'sneeds, breaking it into much
smaller steps and starting withwhere they're at and slowly
working them over with a verydistinct value proposition or
piece of information that has avery specific call to action
(18:01):
afterwards.
And then thinking about wherethe customer's journey really
starts.
And it starts long before theyreally actually need you.
So, so it's long before youreally think it does
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Well.
That that's great advice.
And, uh, you know, uh, how, youknow, the, the question I have
too, is that there's a lot ofpeople in the insurance nerds
audience, uh, that are notdirectly interfacing with a
client.
Um, some of them are CEOs ofinsurance companies.
And so a lot of people areremoved or they're in
(18:36):
underwriting departments.
How do people who are notdirectly interfacing with
clients, um, think about this interms of their work and, uh, you
know, even just, you know, uh,the work at the company, but
helping the company move in thatdirection towards being client
(18:56):
focused.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Yeah.
And that's actually interestingcause I I'm reading, um, high
performance habits right now byBrendan Burchard.
And he just talked about theservice component of his, um,
focus for, and it talks aboutthat really thinking about who
the end user is.
And, and, and so often justbecause of technology these days
, um, doesn't even thetraditional client facing, um,
(19:18):
positions are also very removedfrom the customer experience and
with just technology and withhow specialized organizations
get the bigger that they get.
And the more that your backoffice moves further in the back
, um, and the CEO has becomemore of this high level.
It's very easy to getdisconnected from who you
ultimately serving.
(19:38):
So even if you are traditionallylet back office or your internal
client is, you know, your otherteam members, your ultimate
client is the external client.
It is the, the family member orthe business or whomever you're
actually underwriting theinsurance for underwriting for,
or leading the organization forthem.
So it's important for everybodyto remember that and not to
(20:02):
forget, to stop and take thetime to get to know their
customers and stop and talk withthem.
Um, if they're not able tophysically do that, if the CEO
is not able to go and visit with, with customers every so often,
um, then it's important tosomehow give a voice of the
customer into the organization.
So whether you have a team, um,and it's usually helps if it's
(20:24):
across department teamcross-functional team.
Cause again, you can get abroader perspective on just
understanding the customerjourney, but also looking for
opportunities to help thecustomer, um, where, where
they're going out and they'recreating these opportunities to
get straight from the horse'smouth.
What is the customerexperiencing?
What are they seeing andcommunicating that back to the
organization.
So if you have a largeorganization, that's one way to
(20:46):
do it.
Another way to do it is there'sa lot of agencies like ours that
do that voice of the customertype of work and research and
can present that back.
Um, it helps sometimes to have athird party, especially if there
has been a customer satisfactionissue or just been a lot of a
disconnect for a very long time.
Um, not only for thatthird-party perspective, but
(21:08):
sometimes customers might beafraid to be honest, if they
think it might impact theirrelationship, if they think it
might impact the quality of, ofwhat they're receiving.
Um, there are certain situationswhere there might be privacy
issues as well.
And so, you know, we can come inand do all that research
anonymously and be able toaggregate that.
(21:29):
So a lot of times when you dothat, you get, um, more honest
answers.
They might not be what you wantto hear, but they're more honest
answers.
That'll really help you get atthe root of the problem.
Um, so that's typically what wesee.
It's just, don't lose sight ofthe fact that you're ultimately
doing this for your customer, nomatter what your position is in
the organization, withoutcustomers, that organization
(21:50):
does not exist.
You know,
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Aye.
I, I think that's that that'sreally the bottom line is people
tend to forget if you don't havehappy customers, it doesn't
matter how good yourunderwriting department is or
whatever, if your customers walkaway and they go, boy, you know,
I didn't really enjoy beingstuck in a phone tree for 20
minutes before I actually got totalk with somebody, you know,
(22:17):
that doesn't make me happy.
Um, it reminded me of somethingwhen I was a child is, um, my
father was a CFO of a largemovie theater chain, but what he
used to do was every once in awhile, he would take us as a
family, to a movie theater andhe would pay and we would get,
you know, it was great when Iwas a kid, cause we got to eat
(22:39):
everything we wanted from thesnack bar.
And, you know, cause he, he he'dwant a fully report on
everything.
You know, how the food was iteverything else, but you not,
you know, in retrospect when Igot older and I understood the
purpose was is, you know, nobodyknew who he was, but later on,
they would get a letter from thehome office, you know, talking
(23:00):
about what the theaterexperience was and you know,
what the pros and cons were ofwhat was going on and, you know,
and, and I think that's justbrilliant.
And that gets to what you'resaying is that people have to
think about how is the customerlooking at what we're doing and
in every department, even if youthink you're not having an
(23:23):
impact on your customer is, youknow, is our billing department
being reasonable when our clientgets late bill, um, you know,
what's that experience like, uh,can the client figure out, can
they go to our, uh, website andfigure out what the mailing
addresses are, how to contact usand especially with technology
companies, I'm sure you've seenthis or some technology
(23:44):
companies where it's literallyimpossible to contact a human
person and you know, I mean, howdo you think that's going to
impact, because I know theinsurance industry is, you know,
there's a big movement towardsfinancial tech companies,
FinTech.
Uh, are you familiar withFinTech companies?
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Yeah.
And I mean, in technology ingeneral, it's, it's a
double-edged sword.
I love technology if it's usedwell, because it should, what it
should be doing is it should beautomating the things that don't
meet human touch so that we canfocus more on the things that do
require human touch.
Well, what we do is we eitheruse it the other way around, or
(24:25):
we don't put the systems inplace.
We don't choose the rightsystems and we make it to where
it requires 10 times more workto do what it used to do, you
know, before, when we weretaking things manually.
And so then it's creating morework and creating more, um,
stress and, and, um, burden onthe system, which also detracts
(24:45):
from our ability to focus moreon those human touch factors.
And so again, technology itselfis not necessarily bad.
It's, it's a tool, but it'smisused.
So often it should besimplifying things.
It should be automating thosetasks that don't require a human
touch.
So you can focus more on thosehuman things, but you should
never become so enamored withefficiency that you forget about
(25:11):
how important that customerservices.
And actually there's a hugetrend right now because I know
part of it too, was a lot ofoutsourcing was happening and
now you're having resourcing orinsourcing, whatever term they
want to use.
Um, because companies arefinally realizing that they cut
so many corners on customerservice, that it's starting to
significantly impact them in alot of ways, they focus so much
(25:34):
on the client acquisition piece,but not on maintaining clients.
And they try to really make thatthe cheap part of the
experience.
And then they're constantlyhaving to fight to get clients
back, which is a lot moreexpensive than keeping the
clients you already have.
Um, and then another point Iwanted to make, cause you
mentioned something too abouthow like with the customers that
we need.
Um, one of the things thatdrives me crazy is when people
(25:57):
want to put customer servicesand mission, that's just the
core tenet of being in business.
That's not a mission of yourbusiness that if you're not
providing customer service andwhy are you in business?
That's not a differentiator.
That's not another could beaspects to it, but you've got to
make sure that you're puttingyour customer in the middle of
everything that you do.
(26:18):
The customer gotta be in themiddle of your marketing.
You've got to be in the middleof every decision that you make
and you have to be keeping themin, in view, every decision that
you make every, every time thatyou do something and thinking
about how's this really going toimpact the customer?
You mentioned some things likethe phone tree issues and the
billing.
We always think that actuallydelivering the product or the
(26:39):
service, if that's good,everything else is fine, but
it's all of little things.
It's the front 10% or the back10% that can make or break the
customer experience.
And that's where we see most ofthe issues take place.
It's not necessarily in thatactual transaction, it's in the
stuff leading up to it, orreally quite often in the
everything right after it.
(27:00):
So like you said, the billingalways a big issue or the phone
tree items.
It should not be so difficult tofind someone when I have an
issue.
Um, it doesn't matter how big orsmall your company is that I
should be able to know who tocall if I have a problem so I
can get that problem solved.
Um, cause it's not necessarily agood customer service experience
or a good customer experience ingeneral.
(27:21):
It's not about never having anissue.
It's about what do you do whenan issue arises and how easy is
it for a customer to, to getthat solution?
It, how, how much can you reducefriction for the client?
Um, and again, we're working inthe opposite direction.
We're trying to make thingseasier on us, but in the process
we're making it harder on ourcustomers.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Definitely.
Well, I know personally, um, Ihave my home and auto insurance
with a traditional insurancecompany.
It's definitely not the lowestpremium, but I do know that I
can reach my agent and her teamat any time and they will
(28:00):
respond and, and they may notrespond with a resolution, but
they'll at least respond andsay, Hey, we got your message.
We're on it.
And we'll get back to you andwe'll keep you posted about it.
So how can companies and agentspivot to start using behavioral
economics and client retention?
(28:23):
How do you make that change?
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Um, well again, I'm making it to where customer
service and knowing andunderstanding the customer and
delivering what the customerneeds as part of your culture is
critical.
So cause we can come in here andwe can do, you know, customer
surveys all day long.
We can generate reports all daylong, but if you're really,
aren't truly making it part ofyour culture, you're not going
(28:46):
to actually implement anychanges based on any of the data
that you get.
It doesn't really do us any goodwhatsoever.
Um, so really it has to be, andone of the core tenants is as
goes the head service, the bodyleadership is always going to
set the example.
So if leadership not making it apriority for us to truly meet
the needs of our customers, thatnobody else in the organization
(29:09):
is going to do it.
It's not a bottom down effort.
It's not going to come frommiddle management.
It's not going to come from justthe marketing department or just
the sales department.
It's got to come from theexecutive team and it's got to
be prioritized all the way down.
And uh, so that's where youreally have to start, is making
it part of the culture of trulyunderstanding it.
(29:29):
And it's not doing it's one-timeeffort.
You need to have things in placethat allows you to continually
get that feedback, be able to,you know, digest, understand it
and apply it and figuring outsometimes you're going to get
feedback that you don't need toact on.
Sometimes somebody is just notever going to be happy or it's a
one-off thing, or it's notanything you have control over.
(29:53):
Um, but a lot of times ifthere's there's feedback coming
in, but you're not acting on itagain, that's kind of frustrate
the customer too.
If they can't see this leadinginto a different experience in
the future.
So being able to have those, themonitoring and controls in there
to where you have a way tocontinually collect that
information, be able to evaluateit and be able to act on it.
(30:15):
So that's part of where it doeshelp to have that cross
functional team that isresponsible for that internally,
that can look at thisinformation that's coming in.
Cause sometimes the solutionisn't going to come from the
traditional place, you know, itmight come from HR, it might
come from a production team.
It might come from, um, youraccounting team or it could come
(30:36):
from, you know, and an executiveadministrator.
You never know where thesolution might come from, but
the more that you can have adiverse team that's working on
that, the greater perspectiveyou can have in the greater, um,
problem-solving and creativityyou can have in that whole
process.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Well, that's, that's brilliant.
I, I love all of that and Ithink that's, that's exactly
changing the focus.
So do you see a trend in thefinancial services industry
towards that end?
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Um, not yet.
There's, there's always beenkind of this movement towards
having more of a customerservice focus, but like you
said, with a lot of thetechnology, the way that it's
rising, um, it's not beingproperly implemented.
And so again, it's not theFinTech itself, that's the
problem.
It's how it's being implementedand utilized.
(31:27):
Um, too often, people don't gothrough the whole process of
properly sourcing their FinTech,um, or any technology, even if
it's just their marketingtechnologies or whatever.
So they end up with all thesedifferent pieces that don't
communicate together and justcreate more redundancies and
challenges and, and just boggeddown the system overall.
And that can impact the overallcustomer experience.
(31:50):
Um, but a lot of it is yet we'reseeing the technology
challenges, but we're alsoseeing there's so many other
pressures that are impacting,um, competitive newness.
And so people trying to strivefor competitive advantage while
remaining profitable, keeplooking at how can they reduce
costs, reduce costs, improveprofitability.
And sometimes it's at thatexpense of the customer service.
(32:12):
And that's what we've seen thathappened quite a bit lately.
Some companies are insourcingback or changing their habits,
but a lot of these cost cuttingmeasures have had unintended
consequences.
And so right now it's, I thinkeverybody's feeling the pain,
but we're not seeing a trendtowards a customer-centric
solution yet.
It's just more of everybody'sfeeling the pain and not
(32:34):
understanding what it is andstill looking at it as more of
a, a numbers issue or a salesissue or a goals issue and not
as a human issue, but it'sreally, you're, you're
dehumanizing your entire org,you know, the whole process and
how you connect with the client.
It's going to have negativeimplications.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Yeah, boy, it makes me think of, um, I think it was
James Carville, who said whenbill Clinton was running for
president it's the economystupid that really maybe the
insurance industry and financialservices industry should adopt
it's the customer stupid yet.
There might be a little tooblunt for some of my audience
that I think is that sort ofbottom line.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Yeah.
I mean, bottom line, you need toput the customer first and you
really need to understand theircustomer and their story, and
you're going to have differentcustomer segments.
So their pinpoints are goingmeet different.
The story you need to tell themneeds to be different, um,
because of where they're at intheir life and what their faith
is saying.
And so that's really gotta beprimary.
Um, I mean, I lived in Austinfor a very long time and they'll
(33:39):
always tell you, um, cause youknow, startups, startup central,
they say before you even developa product, the first thing you
need to do is go out there anddo a customer, um, surveys.
You need to go out there andtalk to your customers and what
are their pain?
What are they seeing?
Don't start developing productsand solutions until you
understand that.
And so the tech companies reallywell more in the startup startup
(34:01):
world really understand thatmore than anybody else.
It's just not translating intothese other industries that you
have to start with the customerbecause that's ultimately who
you're trying to serve.
That's ultimately who you'rewanting to purchase from you.
You know that they're, you'rewanting them to buy from you.
Um, but you can't want somethingfrom somebody until you've given
something first and you have togive value and you have to
(34:21):
understand what they need firstto be able to give them the
right value first.
So it definitely think that'sthe starting point.
Everything else from thereyou're going to get, you know,
there's change managementinvolved.
There's you got to change yourmarketing message.
Um, cause I know a big trendright now for a long time there
was storytelling, but it wasmore brands telling their story.
(34:42):
Well now your storytelling needsto be your, the customer needs
to be the hero in the story, notyou, the customer needs to be
the hero in this story.
It's about them.
Not about you it's it's like,and that's how it is with a lot
of companies these days, it'slike being in a bad relationship
where you're trying to, youknow, talk to somebody and they
never hear you.
They never hear you.
(35:03):
They're too busy talking aboutthemselves.
That's how most companiesoperate.
They're too busy talking aboutthemselves to truly hear what
the customer needs and whatthey're saying.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Yeah.
Well, I, I, you know, I've beenreminded to the sink.
So, so much through this podcastis, you know, that's why we have
two years in one mouth.
So, you know, let's pivot alittle bit is, um, you've been
very active in, uh, helpingwomen find their way in, you
(35:31):
know, and especially in theinsurance industry, in a male
dominated industry, what aresome of the unique for women and
how can they succeed in thefinancial services industry?
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Right.
And that's kind of there, it'sactually complicated answer and
I know a lot of people try toover simplify it.
And that's where I think some ofthe issues are coming from is
that they assume that what'sholding all women back is going
to be the same for all women.
And it's not the, uh, the casebecause what the challenges are
for me as a mom are differentfrom someone who's fresh out of
(36:06):
college and starting out andalso depending on, um, each of
the different pockets of, of theenvironment.
Um, but what we definitely needto start with by having more
inclusivity and in most peoplemisunderstand that they think
inviting somebody, but expectingthem to be held to, you know,
act the same or be the same aseverybody else as being
(36:27):
inclusive.
And that's not, that'sassimilation.
You need it to be inclusivemeans being, allowing a woman to
be able to be a woman at thetable.
And, you know, being able tohave that diversity and, and
representing your entire clientbase, it's not just about women,
but women of color and women ofdifferent backgrounds and women
at different stages of theirlives.
(36:48):
Um, because they're going tohave different challenges and
different things that areinfluencing and, and holding
them back.
Um, definitely motherhood is ahuge factor that affects and
certain, certain companies arevery much about hitting those
quotas and working those crazyhours and not having the
flexibility, but it's still aknown fact that we're the
primary caregivers.
(37:08):
We're primarily once responsiblefor the household.
Um, even in a more fair, um,relationship, I'm still
constantly having to educate myown husband on what all it takes
to run the household and whatall it takes to make sure the
kids get off to school and getpicked up.
And if there's an issue I'mstill the first one that's
called or those types of things,you know, so those things impact
(37:29):
my flexibility, but that doesn'tmean that it's affecting the
quality of the work that I'mproducing or what I'm able to
bring to the table because wehave this expectation of a very,
a very specific way of workingthat was designed for, um, a
worker that did not have some ofthese responsibilities, but it
also means shifting to the otherside, we also need to allow
(37:50):
fathers to be fathers.
We need to be able to have thatflexibility in both sides.
It can't be just flexibility formothers.
Um, and there's been a lot ofcase studies and things where
they do put things in place tosupport mothers and support
working, working mothers in theenvironment that working fathers
are able to take advantage ofthat allows them to not only be
better employees, but betterfathers at home.
(38:12):
And it feeds both ways.
If you're satisfied at home,you're satisfied at work and
vice versa.
And if you get to bring yourbest self to both situations,
you're, you're just overallsatisfaction is going to be
better.
You're going to continue toproduce more and you're just
going to be just a betteremployee and a better staff
member overall.
So it's not, it's not a simple,um, solution, but the more that
(38:34):
we can be about havingrepresentation of, of women, of
all backgrounds in leadershiproles, in all departments that
they're not relegated toadministration or in the back
office, um, that they areactually serving in a variety of
roles that they're visible, thatvisibility is going to continue
to help.
Um, women also need to takecontrol of, um, learning how to
(38:57):
become more visible,communicating more.
Um, we just talked about this atthe a woman's conference in
February, and that was the wholetheme of the entire conferences
is get visible.
And how do you do that?
And it's helping women learn howto communicate what they're
bringing to the table, tootingtheir own horn a little bit more
, um, and, and really being ableto know and understand the value
(39:18):
that they bring, um, and beingable to also build alliances to
help them do that.
And so it's not a man versuswoman thing we need to be
working together.
Um, and, and same thing amongwomen, we need to be supporting
each other.
We need to be supporting, um,our male colleagues and vice
versa.
Anybody that's an ally for us.
Um, and then understanding againto what other different
(39:40):
backgrounds and what challengesdoes that bring and being able
to provide resources and supportand being willing to restructure
our expectations around work andwhat it means to produce and be
a good worker.
It's not necessarily that buttonseat scenario.
It's not necessarily a veryrigid work schedule.
It's not necessarily, um, youknow, there's just certain
(40:03):
aspects to what, how we've kindof evolved and what our
expectations are about whatmakes someone a good worker or a
producer in certain areas.
So often we don't actually lookat what they're producing.
We look at how much are theychecking in?
How much are they clocking in?
How much are they able to be atthe happy hours?
How much are they able to meetthese certain things?
And we need to change thatexpectation before we can get
(40:26):
any more diversity regardless ofgender, but just any diversity
in some of these more, um,diverse roles and in some of
these more leadership roles,
Speaker 1 (40:36):
What that that's powerful.
And, um, I think that does getback to a little bit of your
message about, um, the customer,is that the expectation is that
people, uh, and I think this istrue of most people just
innately is that we like peoplewho are like ourselves and feel
more comfortable about them.
(40:56):
But if we want to be genuine,genuinely, uh, inclusive with
our clients with our employeesis that we need to hear their
story, uh, and actually take itseriously, uh, and integrated
into what we do and think that,you know, point this isn't just
(41:16):
about us.
This is about how women feel,you know, as a man, how women
feel, um, you know, for thatonce or twice for my wife, maybe
so that I may not be listeningor interpreting her reality.
Um, and you know, so I thinkthat's just so powerful as to
change that perspective.
(41:38):
And, um, yeah, and I think atthe same time too, is, you know,
women or anybody else who is notthe majority in any situation is
that you do have to tell yourstory because people aren't
getting now, um, I've been insituations, you know, where I'm
not, you know, in the majorityis I'm breaking into a new, uh,
(42:03):
area.
And so it's always, you know, wwhat's that message, you know,
and, you know, I think all of usat certain points feel like,
yeah, we, we feel a little bitlike the outsider.
Um, and I know that women inbusiness, that's a huge problem.
Um, like, and I'm sure you'refamiliar with this is when I
came into the insuranceindustry, women were the HR
(42:25):
person that was the job.
You know, if women were going tobe a vice president, they were
going to be the vice presidentof HR.
And it was like, well, why, um,you know, maybe because I'm
younger, I grew up, you know,with a women being completely
equal and everything it did.
So I had no, uh, you know, itnever made sense to me.
(42:47):
So I know
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Where it was always all hands on deck.
So when I got into the workforceand I was like, why are, why are
all the guys over here?
You're my, all the gals overthere.
Like, it never sat well with mebecause that's not how I was.
Um, but one thing that youtalked to you about is you kind
of briefly mentioned on tellingyour story.
And that's one of the thingsthat I think women struggle with
in general.
(43:10):
And, and again, this came up alot at our conferences.
They discount their experience,they discount where they're
coming from.
Especially if you have to leave,you know, the workforce for
family reasons, or you have, um,there's, this we've come
embarrassed or, or kind ofdownplay certain things.
But when you have to remember isit's your story.
You own it.
(43:30):
You get to write the story thatyou're going to tell you, get to
write the story you're going tolive.
And so, you know, don't beashamed of, you know, that you
had to take time off to takecare of family.
Don't be ashamed of the factthat you can't go to every happy
hour.
Like I used to try and hit everyhappy hour, but I have three
children.
And my youngest is autistic.
(43:50):
You know, childcare is not easy,so I'm, I don't do happy hour
events anymore.
And I don't apologize for thatanymore is my, my story is, is
that after, you know, sixo'clock, that is time for my
family.
It is not time for work.
And that is my story.
My story is not, Oh, I can't dothis.
I don't get to go do this.
Or I had to take a yearsabbatical for health reasons.
(44:12):
It doesn't mean that you know,that my career is any less
valued.
That doesn't mean that mytrajectory is off or anything
like that is that I needed thatbreak.
It helped me re-energize and nowI'm that full force and can do
these things, but so often womenlike downplay or tuck or demean
their experience, or, you know,just have a negative story that
they tell about where they're atin their career, or what's
(44:35):
happening to their career, orwhat they feel is holding them
back in their career, instead ofchanging that story and, and,
and owning it and making it,putting a positive spin on it.
You're not lying.
You're just changing your pointof view, that the way that
you're looking at everything,instead of looking at it as a
challenge, instead of looking atit as a roadblock, what is the
(44:55):
opportunity?
What lesson did you learn if youhad a setback, if you had to
change industries, if you had tochange careers, you still
learned from those experiencesand those experiences still have
tremendous value on where you'reat today.
And how are you applying that ina positive way, focus on that
story instead of focusing on thenegative aspects, or again,
(45:17):
just, we're really good attelling bad stories about
ourselves.
And so that's something I thinkthat women really need to do.
And from, in terms of us, um,what we can control and what we
can do, we can control the storythat we're telling about
ourselves.
Um, not only to others, but inour own heads, we need to be
telling better stories toourselves in our own heads.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
Yeah, well, I think that's true of all people on
everything and, you know, T toget back to our conversation a
little bit about customers is Ithink that's also something with
customers that financialservices industry is they tell
negative stories, you know,people talk about, you know, the
claims problem they had, or theproblem with their bank
overcharged them or whatever isthat people tend to tell the
(45:59):
most negative story.
Um, and so I think it's sopowerful what you're doing is,
you know, helping people tochange their point of view and
to tell better story.
And that for companies, youknow, whether it's female
employees or, uh, minorityemployees, um, you know, what
(46:20):
have you, and for their owncustomers is, you know, they
have a different story and youhave to understand that.
And then you know, that we,each, as people have to, you
know, tell our own story.
So, you know, There you go ownit.
(46:42):
That can be that.
Uh, so, you know, um, what haveyou, um, how do you juggle all
these things?
Cause you've got a lot going onand that's when, uh, you know,
questions I always ask is how doyou juggle so much?
Speaker 2 (46:55):
Yeah.
And I mean, it's one of thosethings that I feel like recently
I've gotten much better at it.
Um, I've gotten really clearabout what I want, what I value
and what I need to be focusingmy time and energy on and be
like, I've eliminated everythingelse.
So there was a lot of things fora long time that I was doing,
because I was trying to live upto some expectation, especially
(47:19):
in the marketing space.
There's, it's such an ego drivenego driven industry.
Um, and there's just all theseexpectations that you have to
doing all these different things, um, and, you know, be
traveling and be doing all ofthese speaking engagements and
be, you know, have, um, videosgoing and podcasts going and
(47:39):
serve on X number of boards andbe seen and be seen and be seen.
And, um, I was doing all of thatand running myself into the
ground and not really seeing anyROI from it.
So I've gotten very clear aboutwhat I, what I will, what I
enjoy, what allows me to bringmy best self to the table.
What's in line with my valuesand what's in line with my
(47:59):
personal and professional goals.
So I do have some verysignificant personal health
goals right now that I'm notcompromising on whatsoever.
Um, and that has allowed me toeliminate a lot of activities.
So I don't do any happy hourevents anymore.
Um, I significantly limit mytravel to about once a month and
I am, you know, focused on thoseactivities that truly do allow
(48:23):
me to connect with like-mindedpeople that allow me to connect
with the right type of audiencesand industries.
And then I protect my time sothat I can get my downtime.
Um, if I can rest and rechargeproperly, I'm so much more
productive.
I can get four times more donein the same amount of time
versus a, by trying to forcemyself to do 12 hours straight.
(48:45):
I'm just wasting the other fourhours.
I'm not being productive at all.
Whereas if I get that downtimeand I have the time where I'm
focused with my family and thetime where I'm focused on
myself, then I can come, youknow, Roran really knock it out
of the park when I come to work.
Um, so that's been, the otherthing is I just don't feel
fresher to serve on boardsanymore, or to be present at all
(49:08):
of these events.
Um, and I don't feel pressuredto have to, um, you know,
glorify busy and, and just, youknow, work these crazy hours.
I focus more on, what's reallygonna move the needle and focus
on those projects instead.
And all the other stuff I'll getto it when I get to it, but to
do list is never done.
(49:28):
So I just, I, I do as much as Ican and, and then give, you
know, make sure I have thatthose boundaries in place.
So that's something, and I'veonly recently started doing
that, but it's made a hugedifference.
I feel a lot better.
Um, but, and I do see, I I'mable to bring my best self and,
and more quality ideas andquality work to my clients as
(49:49):
well as to my home, to myfamily.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
That's great.
Well, I know you've given mesome fantastic ideas, so I, I, I
know you're, you're deliveringyour best and, um, you know,
just to kind of close out, Ialso like to ask people, you
know, if they have a funny orinteresting story they want to
share.
Speaker 2 (50:06):
Oh, that one, um, I was, I was thinking about that.
I was trying to think of onethat was appropriate.
Speaker 1 (50:14):
Is this more of a happy hour story?
Speaker 2 (50:18):
Um, so I did stop drinking back in August, but,
um, and I never was a heavydrinker, but I did earn a
nickname at happy hour.
Um, so one of my nicknames, Iearned shenanigans.
Yeah.
Cause people can never, youknow, after, after they've had a
couple of drinks, no one can saymy name.
And so, um, yeah, that's my, oneof my nicknames is shenanigans
(50:40):
and most people's phones doauto-correct.
My name does shenanigans too.
So it kind of stuck one of the,I guess, more tame stories I
could share.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
Well, we could have another podcast to talk about
the rest of the stories.
Speaker 2 (50:59):
Well, we lead every podcast.
Speaker 1 (51:08):
This has been great, you know, I mean, you've shared
so much and I really appreciatethat.
Um, so where can people learnmore about you and I I'll put in
a URL in the show notes, but howcan people get in touch with you
and learn about what you'redoing?
Speaker 2 (51:24):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, so the name of our companiesis Connor creative company.
Now that's Connor, that's C O NN O R M because ever since I got
remarried, no, one's misspelledmy first name, but they keep
misspelling Connor, but it'sConnor, creative co.com is our
(51:44):
website.
And I'm, I blog there every weekand constantly putting out
resources and content there.
Again, I'm very, I mean, I'm alifelong learner, so I'm always
putting out educational contenton marketing and, um, leadership
and things like that.
Um, you can find me on LinkedIn.
I'm very active on LinkedIn andit's just Shenandoah Connor.
(52:05):
Um, and, uh, I kind of, youknow, do a little bit of
Twitter, not as much as I usedto, but I'm also on Twitter as
well.
And there I'm shin and do a TX.
Um, she didn't do a Texas.
Yeah.
So those would be the big waysto reach me.
Speaker 1 (52:21):
All right.
Well, fantastic.
I will add that, um, to the shownotes, so people will be able to
find you, um, thanks again forcoming on today.
It's been a pleasure and, uh,for everybody listening or
watching, please be sure tosubscribe to the podcast.
Uh, thanks again, Shenandoah.
It's been a real pleasure.
Speaker 2 (52:42):
Absolutely.
Thank you, Tony.
Speaker 3 (52:56):
[inaudible].
Welcome to the get ready with Tony stirrer podcast
in partnership with insurancenerds, I'm pleased to be joined
today by shin Andela Connor.
Good morning.
In this episode, we'll bediscussing behavioral economics
and how advisors can focus onour client's perspectives and
issues.
(00:35):
Shenandoah is a graduate of the,get her done school thought, uh,
Shenandoah Connor takes strategyand execution to the extreme
rapidly developing andimplementing both client and
company initiatives whilemaintaining high standards of
excellence.
She marries Sarah experiencetraining in, uh, change
management and organizationaldevelopment with their 20 plus
(00:58):
years of experience providingmarketing and strategy services
for clients in the AEC, uh,struggling this morning,
financial services, technologyand healthcare industries.
She actively writes and speakson topics related to marketing
leadership and business for manyconferences and organizations,
(01:19):
including, uh, SXSW interactivewomen in finance, the Institute
for leadership and capitalprojects, the society for
marketing professional services,the women's global leadership
conference in energy and others.
Yeah, that's a few things.
It keeps you busy at Bush.
(01:40):
You're a mom, right?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Hey, that's another full time job.
And as vice president ofstrategy and client services at
Connor creative, she is leadingthe implementation of new
technologies and services whilebringing their full suite of
marketing and communicationscapabilities to the market.
So there we go.
That's about Shenandoah.
So let's plunge in and learnmore about you and what you're
(02:07):
up to.
So maybe, yeah.
Fantastic.
So let's, uh, talk about how yougot started.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Uh, well, it's kind of funny, starting a story.
I started very, very young.
Um, I started learning about,uh, everything that I employed
today, the sales, the marketing,how to influence people, how
they think, what affects theirdecisions.
Um, actually in middle school,my father, there's a flight
coming at me.
Um, my father was a farmer, but,uh, for health reasons had to
(02:39):
change careers and went into, uh, sales at an RV dealership.
But yeah, he's one of those whenhe was going through learning
everything that he needed tolearn, he went through the Dale
Carnegie stuff and all that.
He came home and did it taughtit to us kids.
So I'm the oldest of three andall of us went through sales
training in elementary andmiddle cause he was, you know,
(03:00):
that's how you learn, you teachit to others.
And so that's what he was.
We were his, you know, captured,captive audience, so to speak.
Um, so I started learning itthen and, um, always worked with
my parents in some capacity, um,you know, working on the
weekends or helping them out.
I've always had a knack forwriting.
And so it would help my dad withdeveloping sales letters and
things.
(03:20):
But I really started, um, kindof working as a copywriter and
doing marketing and support, uh,in high school, I wanted to
participate in a pageant, but myparents were of the ilk that if
you want something that'sextracurricular, you have to
figure it out yourself.
And so they would allow us to,um, get sponsors and sell
advertisements and the programfor the pageant.
(03:41):
And, uh, but they didn't give usany sales materials for that.
So I developed my own salesletter, supply it just after me
today.
Um, but yeah, I developed my ownsales letter and got my Sunday
best and started going around toall the different companies, um,
where I grew up, which was lessversus New Mexico.
And I got the entire pageantpaid for, uh, plus some gigs
(04:04):
doing some sales letters.
I was so good at it.
They wanted me to help writetheir marketing materials.
So, so I got started, um, and italways has been kind of a side
gig until, um, I had mydaughter, I was a single mom
with a four month old baby andhad to figure out a way to make
a living in a way that, um, youknow, it wasn't just, you know,
(04:25):
childcare is so expensive and asa single parent, it was just
very difficult.
So I started freelancing again,um, when she was born and
quickly grew an agency fromthat.
So kind of the roundabout waythat it ended up
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Well.
Fantastic.
Yeah.
And let that fire.
I know he can be booked nextweek.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
I don't know I had the doors open earlier cause
it's a nice morning, but thatwas probably a bad idea.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Well, maybe it's a Dale Carnegie fly and you know,
he's persistent.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
See how well my meditation on focus is working
today.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Well, that's great.
Um, and I think one of thethings you said, uh, that's just
so important.
Um, and the lesson you learnedearly on that it's, it's about
teaching others.
It's what we learn, but that thekey is not selling.
The key is teaching.
And, uh, that's what I loveabout what you're doing and uh,
(05:22):
your school of thought.
So let's get into, you know,what you're doing today, what
you,
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yeah.
And I kind of on that pointright there, one of the things I
do quite a bit, or what I callit is educating to conversion.
So I work with a lot ofknowledge-based companies.
There are financial services orprofessional services where they
have, um, very involvedtechnical, uh, products and
services that they deliver or,and they're working with mostly
(05:47):
with B2B.
Some of them are B to C.
Um, so we do a mix of both whereyou have to really educate a
client before they becomeclient.
And throughout the wholeprocess, it's just part of the
selling and customer service, uh, funnel that you need to be
able to continually educatethem.
So there's a lot of blogging andthought leadership that happens
(06:09):
through that.
Um, but it's also reallythinking about translating
really technical topics intoterms and language, um, and
stories that the customer canunderstand and that they can
relate to, um, to wherever theyare in the process.
And so that's a big part of whatwe do.
Uh, you know, there's a lot ofdifferent aspects that can go
(06:30):
into it from a, from a tacticstandpoint, whether we're
talking about social media oremail marketing or doing
strategic partnerships orwebinars or, um, events, those
types of things, those are justkind of the ways we go about
really trying to connect withthe right type of clients that
would be a good fit forwhomever.
Um, you know, we're representingand really just getting that
(06:53):
thought leadership and expertiseout there and educating them in
a way that is bringing themalong for the journey that's
going to lead to a sell for ourclient, but that is ultimately
gonna lead to a positivesolution and outcome for their
end user as well.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Definitely.
And, and I think that's, um,another key thing it's that it's
about a positive solution isthat you want people to walk
away feeling good about whatthey've done is, um, I know so
often in the financial servicesindustry is so often clients
walk away and they're eitherpuzzled or they don't feel great
(07:28):
about the process.
And, uh, you know, they havejust this view of, uh,
especially the insuranceindustry, but I'd say across the
whole financial servicesindustry of like, yeah, these
are people I got to deal withthat I don't really want to deal
with them.
You know, it's like,
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Well, and I think a lot of that comes when you can
feel when you're not, whenthey're not operating in your
best interests, when they'retrying to meet quotas or
represent a specific products,versus what's the best solution
for the client, you can feelthat sometimes.
And if you can walk away notgetting that great experience,
if, you know, for a fact theydidn't do the due diligence,
(08:07):
even if it is maybe even theright product for you, but they
didn't do that due diligence onthe front end of really getting
to know you and understandingwhat your needs were and drawing
that connection between whereyou're at, what you need, what
your goals are, your level ofunderstanding and what they're
trying to provide to you.
And that's where that disconnectcan come into play quite a bit.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Okay.
Great.
Great.
Well, I think that leads wellinto our next question is, uh,
you know, what is behavioraleconomics?
I know that's one of yourspecialty areas.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Uh, yeah.
And then with anything that theythrow behavioral on top of it
just means we're applyingpsychology to whatever that is.
So economics, um, classicaleconomics, the models were based
on, you know, very perfectinformation, everybody,
everything they needed to know,everybody had the same
negotiation power, and everybodyalways acted rationally.
(09:01):
They didn't resist change.
They knew it was necessary.
They never did any impulsivebuys.
Everything was very logical andwell thought out.
Um, and as humans we know that'snot true.
We're not logical.
Um, most of the time, we're notactually, especially when it
comes to finances.
That's one of those things where, uh, people can make a lot of
(09:22):
really, um, uh, unhealthydecisions that can impact them
for a very long time because ofemotional reasons.
And so, but also anytime you'retrying to influence someone,
it's not just a logical decisionor just an emotional or a
decision or a psychologicalbased decision, it's a
combination of the two.
And so you have to understandboth in order to really be able
(09:45):
to not only attract a client andkeep a client, but to make the
client happy.
And that's part where it comesinto play from an economic
standpoint, it's more aboutthat.
What incentivizes people, whatinfluences their decisions.
And then as a marketing person,that's what I look at is what
influences people's decisions.
When do they start that youstart to perk up and they start
(10:08):
listening.
What makes them take that nextstep and what makes them stick
around what also keeps them frommaking those decisions that
actually are good for them.
Um, and there's a lot, againwith my background is also in
change management.
So resistance comes up quite abit when you're dealing with,
with anything.
Um, especially if there's, um,and we've talked about this
(10:28):
before, if there's people wannaavoid thoughts of death, people
wanna avoid negative thoughts,but how do you get them to be
proactive while also being awareof they're going to have this
resistance to certain topics orresistance to certain things, or
they're going to have, you know,a certain inherent bias to
things.
And that's basically what itdoes is we're looking at all the
different ways that, um,influences their thought
(10:51):
patterns and how can weincentivize and motivate them to
take the actions we want them totake, or they need to take
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Exactly.
So, you know, and I think that'sa really in the insurance
industry, you're dealing withthe, the first thing you hit on
is people's not really wantingto talk about money and feeling
comfortable with money.
And then you're also dealingwith things that people don't
want to talk about.
They don't want to think abouttheir house burning down or
(11:20):
getting in a car crash orsomebody dying or becoming
disabled.
You know, those are not positiveevents.
So how can advisors and, uh, youknow, other financial service
professionals, you know, apply,uh, behavioral economics to
better serve their clients andto help their clients, you know,
(11:41):
deal with these issues, youknow, w while not being a
trained psychologist.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Right.
Right.
And like a lot of that honestlycomes from the old adage of, you
know, learning to listen andhear what they're actually
saying.
And so stopping and taking thetime to get to know your client
and hearing what their currentpain points are.
And, and if you can meet theirpain points first, and they
start to trust you, they'regoing to listen to you more on
(12:06):
some of these bigger things.
So if you've got a, a youngperson or a newly married
couple, they're not thinkingabout 50, 60 years from now,
this happens, this happens.
This might be an issue they'rethinking about, okay, we want to
buy a house.
We want to do this.
We want it.
And so thinking about wherethey're at, how can you help
them meet those needs, be thattrusted advisor, and really
(12:26):
understand where they're goingin their life, where they're at
in life right now, build thattrust and then start
incrementally moving themtowards these other items.
Um, and then sometimes toothinking about, um, what are the
things that they value and howcan you speak to those values or
standards that they want to liveby and, and kind of draw that
connection.
(12:47):
So that's something we use alot.
Um, so if you have someone whovalues themselves as a provider,
and they value themselves assomeone that provides and
protects for their familyappeal, to that sense of, of
being a provider in yourdiscussions, instead of coming
from a doom and gloomstandpoint, you're coming from
me, you're taking care of yourfamily standpoint.
So it's not about loss.
(13:08):
It's about protecting what'sthere and preserving what's
there.
Um, or if you have, uh, someonethat is, um, I know we talked
about this, a lot of women endup being caregivers, and they're
overwhelmed by a lot of thesethings.
What can you do to address theirconcerns as a primary caregiver,
either have young children orchildren with disabilities or
aging parents, or whatever theirsituation might be thinking
(13:30):
about what are their pain pointsand how can we speak to those
pain points and where they're atright now solve their immediate
problems and start working themover towards addressing the
other items that they need toaddress.
So often everybody wants to comewith, okay, here's the full
package of everything that youneed, or here's ultimately the
best thing.
And if they're not either thereyet, or they're so overwhelmed
(13:51):
by their current situation tothem, that's like, okay, well,
that's not what I need rightnow.
Or like you said, the other thanto try and avoid that until they
feel that they have, um, arelationship in a, in a bond
with you.
Um, and until that's developed,and it's really hard to really
sell them on anything much lessthe whole kitten caboodle.
So that's definitely how I, howI advise our clients
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Definitely.
Well, and I think, um, is thatwhat you're really saying is, is
you have to that people can't.
And I found this myself assometimes, you know, taking in
the whole picture at a singletime, you know, at one point it
is kind of challenging and youhave to have people focus in on
(14:35):
one component of the plan tostart leading them through the
entire plan.
Um, so how do you, um, recommendand how do you help people focus
on one specific aspect of abigger solution?
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Well, part of that first is, um, doing kind of your
customer discovery.
So really everything you have tostart by understanding your
customer first.
So often clients come in andthey want to sell a specific
product, or they have their owngoals that they're trying to
reach.
Um, but in order for us to drawthat connection between what the
client, what they're wantingfrom an organizational
(15:12):
standpoint, whatever quotasthey're trying to reach,
whatever products they're tryingto sell, we have to first think
about, okay, what is theaudience that you're trying to
reach out?
What are their key pain pointsrelated to this?
What are their concerns?
What are their interests relatedto this?
And we do that initial discoveryfirst and think about, okay, how
can we meet them, where theyare, and then start drawing that
(15:34):
those connections from, okay,here's where they're at.
Here's their pain points.
This is what you offer andworking our way backwards to
meeting them where they are andslowly bringing them along.
And that definitely does meanhaving more steps in the
process.
And I have a lot of clients thatare very high energy CEOs, and
they want to get there fast andthey want to convert right away
and, you know, just really makeit happen, but really for us to
(15:57):
do it well, we've got to breakit down.
Um, because even we've all beenthere.
If you get too much thrown atyou, once you just shut off, if
you get too many emails at once,if you get this giant brochure
with all this technical jargonin it, once you're not going to
go through it, but if you canget little incremental steps
that address a specific pointand has a single call to action,
(16:19):
um, like this is your next step.
And really thinking about it inthose baby steps, um, from, you
know, step a step B step C don'ttry and go from a to Z right
away.
And that's typically how we goabout it.
Um, a lot of times it does helpto have that outside perspective
is, again, we're so jaded by ourown wants and needs and goals as
(16:39):
an organization, I had to getthe same way, um, where you're
focused on just trying to meetyour own needs, that it's hard
sometimes for you to see theother side of the equation.
Um, and it's also sometimes hardfor you to see where that
starting point might be.
Um, as a lot of times, it's notwhere the client actually starts
engaging with you is notnecessarily where you need to
(17:00):
start engaging with them.
Naturally.
Um, the example I use a lot oftimes, it's like with the
hospital.
So often they wait until apatient comes in.
That's the point that the, thecustomer journey starts for
them, but that's not when thecustomer journey starts, the
customer journey starts whenthey start having symptoms and
not feeling well.
And that can be weeks or monthsbefore they actually show up in
(17:20):
the hospital.
And it doesn't end when they'redischarged.
It continues for several monthsafter.
So from where we're at, we haveto think about when are they
going to start thinking aboutthese decisions and how can we
start getting in front of thembefore it's time for them to
actually make that decision andbe that resource that's already
positioned for them long beforethey actually have the need.
(17:41):
So those are really thedifferent steps that we take
really thinking about lookingoutside of your organization and
understanding the client'sneeds, breaking it into much
smaller steps and starting withwhere they're at and slowly
working them over with a verydistinct value proposition or
piece of information that has avery specific call to action
(18:01):
afterwards.
And then thinking about wherethe customer's journey really
starts.
And it starts long before theyreally actually need you.
So, so it's long before youreally think it does
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Well.
That that's great advice.
And, uh, you know, uh, how, youknow, the, the question I have
too, is that there's a lot ofpeople in the insurance nerds
audience, uh, that are notdirectly interfacing with a
client.
Um, some of them are CEOs ofinsurance companies.
And so a lot of people areremoved or they're in
(18:36):
underwriting departments.
How do people who are notdirectly interfacing with
clients, um, think about this interms of their work and, uh, you
know, even just, you know, uh,the work at the company, but
helping the company move in thatdirection towards being client
(18:56):
focused.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Yeah.
And that's actually interestingcause I I'm reading, um, high
performance habits right now byBrendan Burchard.
And he just talked about theservice component of his, um,
focus for, and it talks aboutthat really thinking about who
the end user is.
And, and, and so often justbecause of technology these days
, um, doesn't even thetraditional client facing, um,
(19:18):
positions are also very removedfrom the customer experience and
with just technology and withhow specialized organizations
get the bigger that they get.
And the more that your backoffice moves further in the back
, um, and the CEO has becomemore of this high level.
It's very easy to getdisconnected from who you
ultimately serving.
(19:38):
So even if you are traditionallylet back office or your internal
client is, you know, your otherteam members, your ultimate
client is the external client.
It is the, the family member orthe business or whomever you're
actually underwriting theinsurance for underwriting for,
or leading the organization forthem.
So it's important for everybodyto remember that and not to
(20:02):
forget, to stop and take thetime to get to know their
customers and stop and talk withthem.
Um, if they're not able tophysically do that, if the CEO
is not able to go and visit with, with customers every so often,
um, then it's important tosomehow give a voice of the
customer into the organization.
So whether you have a team, um,and it's usually helps if it's
(20:24):
across department teamcross-functional team.
Cause again, you can get abroader perspective on just
understanding the customerjourney, but also looking for
opportunities to help thecustomer, um, where, where
they're going out and they'recreating these opportunities to
get straight from the horse'smouth.
What is the customerexperiencing?
What are they seeing andcommunicating that back to the
organization.
So if you have a largeorganization, that's one way to
(20:46):
do it.
Another way to do it is there'sa lot of agencies like ours that
do that voice of the customertype of work and research and
can present that back.
Um, it helps sometimes to have athird party, especially if there
has been a customer satisfactionissue or just been a lot of a
disconnect for a very long time.
Um, not only for thatthird-party perspective, but
(21:08):
sometimes customers might beafraid to be honest, if they
think it might impact theirrelationship, if they think it
might impact the quality of, ofwhat they're receiving.
Um, there are certain situationswhere there might be privacy
issues as well.
And so, you know, we can come inand do all that research
anonymously and be able toaggregate that.
(21:29):
So a lot of times when you dothat, you get, um, more honest
answers.
They might not be what you wantto hear, but they're more honest
answers.
That'll really help you get atthe root of the problem.
Um, so that's typically what wesee.
It's just, don't lose sight ofthe fact that you're ultimately
doing this for your customer, nomatter what your position is in
the organization, withoutcustomers, that organization
(21:50):
does not exist.
You know,
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Aye.
I, I think that's that that'sreally the bottom line is people
tend to forget if you don't havehappy customers, it doesn't
matter how good yourunderwriting department is or
whatever, if your customers walkaway and they go, boy, you know,
I didn't really enjoy beingstuck in a phone tree for 20
minutes before I actually got totalk with somebody, you know,
(22:17):
that doesn't make me happy.
Um, it reminded me of somethingwhen I was a child is, um, my
father was a CFO of a largemovie theater chain, but what he
used to do was every once in awhile, he would take us as a
family, to a movie theater andhe would pay and we would get,
you know, it was great when Iwas a kid, cause we got to eat
(22:39):
everything we wanted from thesnack bar.
And, you know, cause he, he he'dwant a fully report on
everything.
You know, how the food was iteverything else, but you not,
you know, in retrospect when Igot older and I understood the
purpose was is, you know, nobodyknew who he was, but later on,
they would get a letter from thehome office, you know, talking
(23:00):
about what the theaterexperience was and you know,
what the pros and cons were ofwhat was going on and, you know,
and, and I think that's justbrilliant.
And that gets to what you'resaying is that people have to
think about how is the customerlooking at what we're doing and
in every department, even if youthink you're not having an
(23:23):
impact on your customer is, youknow, is our billing department
being reasonable when our clientgets late bill, um, you know,
what's that experience like, uh,can the client figure out, can
they go to our, uh, website andfigure out what the mailing
addresses are, how to contact usand especially with technology
companies, I'm sure you've seenthis or some technology
(23:44):
companies where it's literallyimpossible to contact a human
person and you know, I mean, howdo you think that's going to
impact, because I know theinsurance industry is, you know,
there's a big movement towardsfinancial tech companies,
FinTech.
Uh, are you familiar withFinTech companies?
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Yeah.
And I mean, in technology ingeneral, it's, it's a
double-edged sword.
I love technology if it's usedwell, because it should, what it
should be doing is it should beautomating the things that don't
meet human touch so that we canfocus more on the things that do
require human touch.
Well, what we do is we eitheruse it the other way around, or
(24:25):
we don't put the systems inplace.
We don't choose the rightsystems and we make it to where
it requires 10 times more workto do what it used to do, you
know, before, when we weretaking things manually.
And so then it's creating morework and creating more, um,
stress and, and, um, burden onthe system, which also detracts
(24:45):
from our ability to focus moreon those human touch factors.
And so again, technology itselfis not necessarily bad.
It's, it's a tool, but it'smisused.
So often it should besimplifying things.
It should be automating thosetasks that don't require a human
touch.
So you can focus more on thosehuman things, but you should
never become so enamored withefficiency that you forget about
(25:11):
how important that customerservices.
And actually there's a hugetrend right now because I know
part of it too, was a lot ofoutsourcing was happening and
now you're having resourcing orinsourcing, whatever term they
want to use.
Um, because companies arefinally realizing that they cut
so many corners on customerservice, that it's starting to
significantly impact them in alot of ways, they focus so much
(25:34):
on the client acquisition piece,but not on maintaining clients.
And they try to really make thatthe cheap part of the
experience.
And then they're constantlyhaving to fight to get clients
back, which is a lot moreexpensive than keeping the
clients you already have.
Um, and then another point Iwanted to make, cause you
mentioned something too abouthow like with the customers that
we need.
Um, one of the things thatdrives me crazy is when people
(25:57):
want to put customer servicesand mission, that's just the
core tenet of being in business.
That's not a mission of yourbusiness that if you're not
providing customer service andwhy are you in business?
That's not a differentiator.
That's not another could beaspects to it, but you've got to
make sure that you're puttingyour customer in the middle of
everything that you do.
(26:18):
The customer gotta be in themiddle of your marketing.
You've got to be in the middleof every decision that you make
and you have to be keeping themin, in view, every decision that
you make every, every time thatyou do something and thinking
about how's this really going toimpact the customer?
You mentioned some things likethe phone tree issues and the
billing.
We always think that actuallydelivering the product or the
(26:39):
service, if that's good,everything else is fine, but
it's all of little things.
It's the front 10% or the back10% that can make or break the
customer experience.
And that's where we see most ofthe issues take place.
It's not necessarily in thatactual transaction, it's in the
stuff leading up to it, orreally quite often in the
everything right after it.
(27:00):
So like you said, the billingalways a big issue or the phone
tree items.
It should not be so difficult tofind someone when I have an
issue.
Um, it doesn't matter how big orsmall your company is that I
should be able to know who tocall if I have a problem so I
can get that problem solved.
Um, cause it's not necessarily agood customer service experience
or a good customer experience ingeneral.
(27:21):
It's not about never having anissue.
It's about what do you do whenan issue arises and how easy is
it for a customer to, to getthat solution?
It, how, how much can you reducefriction for the client?
Um, and again, we're working inthe opposite direction.
We're trying to make thingseasier on us, but in the process
we're making it harder on ourcustomers.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Definitely.
Well, I know personally, um, Ihave my home and auto insurance
with a traditional insurancecompany.
It's definitely not the lowestpremium, but I do know that I
can reach my agent and her teamat any time and they will
(28:00):
respond and, and they may notrespond with a resolution, but
they'll at least respond andsay, Hey, we got your message.
We're on it.
And we'll get back to you andwe'll keep you posted about it.
So how can companies and agentspivot to start using behavioral
economics and client retention?
(28:23):
How do you make that change?
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Um, well again, I'm making it to where customer
service and knowing andunderstanding the customer and
delivering what the customerneeds as part of your culture is
critical.
So cause we can come in here andwe can do, you know, customer
surveys all day long.
We can generate reports all daylong, but if you're really,
aren't truly making it part ofyour culture, you're not going
(28:46):
to actually implement anychanges based on any of the data
that you get.
It doesn't really do us any goodwhatsoever.
Um, so really it has to be, andone of the core tenants is as
goes the head service, the bodyleadership is always going to
set the example.
So if leadership not making it apriority for us to truly meet
the needs of our customers, thatnobody else in the organization
(29:09):
is going to do it.
It's not a bottom down effort.
It's not going to come frommiddle management.
It's not going to come from justthe marketing department or just
the sales department.
It's got to come from theexecutive team and it's got to
be prioritized all the way down.
And uh, so that's where youreally have to start, is making
it part of the culture of trulyunderstanding it.
(29:29):
And it's not doing it's one-timeeffort.
You need to have things in placethat allows you to continually
get that feedback, be able to,you know, digest, understand it
and apply it and figuring outsometimes you're going to get
feedback that you don't need toact on.
Sometimes somebody is just notever going to be happy or it's a
one-off thing, or it's notanything you have control over.
(29:53):
Um, but a lot of times ifthere's there's feedback coming
in, but you're not acting on itagain, that's kind of frustrate
the customer too.
If they can't see this leadinginto a different experience in
the future.
So being able to have those, themonitoring and controls in there
to where you have a way tocontinually collect that
information, be able to evaluateit and be able to act on it.
(30:15):
So that's part of where it doeshelp to have that cross
functional team that isresponsible for that internally,
that can look at thisinformation that's coming in.
Cause sometimes the solutionisn't going to come from the
traditional place, you know, itmight come from HR, it might
come from a production team.
It might come from, um, youraccounting team or it could come
(30:36):
from, you know, and an executiveadministrator.
You never know where thesolution might come from, but
the more that you can have adiverse team that's working on
that, the greater perspectiveyou can have in the greater, um,
problem-solving and creativityyou can have in that whole
process.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Well, that's, that's brilliant.
I, I love all of that and Ithink that's, that's exactly
changing the focus.
So do you see a trend in thefinancial services industry
towards that end?
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Um, not yet.
There's, there's always beenkind of this movement towards
having more of a customerservice focus, but like you
said, with a lot of thetechnology, the way that it's
rising, um, it's not beingproperly implemented.
And so again, it's not theFinTech itself, that's the
problem.
It's how it's being implementedand utilized.
(31:27):
Um, too often, people don't gothrough the whole process of
properly sourcing their FinTech,um, or any technology, even if
it's just their marketingtechnologies or whatever.
So they end up with all thesedifferent pieces that don't
communicate together and justcreate more redundancies and
challenges and, and just boggeddown the system overall.
And that can impact the overallcustomer experience.
(31:50):
Um, but a lot of it is yet we'reseeing the technology
challenges, but we're alsoseeing there's so many other
pressures that are impacting,um, competitive newness.
And so people trying to strivefor competitive advantage while
remaining profitable, keeplooking at how can they reduce
costs, reduce costs, improveprofitability.
And sometimes it's at thatexpense of the customer service.
(32:12):
And that's what we've seen thathappened quite a bit lately.
Some companies are insourcingback or changing their habits,
but a lot of these cost cuttingmeasures have had unintended
consequences.
And so right now it's, I thinkeverybody's feeling the pain,
but we're not seeing a trendtowards a customer-centric
solution yet.
It's just more of everybody'sfeeling the pain and not
(32:34):
understanding what it is andstill looking at it as more of
a, a numbers issue or a salesissue or a goals issue and not
as a human issue, but it'sreally, you're, you're
dehumanizing your entire org,you know, the whole process and
how you connect with the client.
It's going to have negativeimplications.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Yeah, boy, it makes me think of, um, I think it was
James Carville, who said whenbill Clinton was running for
president it's the economystupid that really maybe the
insurance industry and financialservices industry should adopt
it's the customer stupid yet.
There might be a little tooblunt for some of my audience
that I think is that sort ofbottom line.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Yeah.
I mean, bottom line, you need toput the customer first and you
really need to understand theircustomer and their story, and
you're going to have differentcustomer segments.
So their pinpoints are goingmeet different.
The story you need to tell themneeds to be different, um,
because of where they're at intheir life and what their faith
is saying.
And so that's really gotta beprimary.
Um, I mean, I lived in Austinfor a very long time and they'll
(33:39):
always tell you, um, cause youknow, startups, startup central,
they say before you even developa product, the first thing you
need to do is go out there anddo a customer, um, surveys.
You need to go out there andtalk to your customers and what
are their pain?
What are they seeing?
Don't start developing productsand solutions until you
understand that.
And so the tech companies reallywell more in the startup startup
(34:01):
world really understand thatmore than anybody else.
It's just not translating intothese other industries that you
have to start with the customerbecause that's ultimately who
you're trying to serve.
That's ultimately who you'rewanting to purchase from you.
You know that they're, you'rewanting them to buy from you.
Um, but you can't want somethingfrom somebody until you've given
something first and you have togive value and you have to
(34:21):
understand what they need firstto be able to give them the
right value first.
So it definitely think that'sthe starting point.
Everything else from thereyou're going to get, you know,
there's change managementinvolved.
There's you got to change yourmarketing message.
Um, cause I know a big trendright now for a long time there
was storytelling, but it wasmore brands telling their story.
(34:42):
Well now your storytelling needsto be your, the customer needs
to be the hero in the story, notyou, the customer needs to be
the hero in this story.
It's about them.
Not about you it's it's like,and that's how it is with a lot
of companies these days, it'slike being in a bad relationship
where you're trying to, youknow, talk to somebody and they
never hear you.
They never hear you.
(35:03):
They're too busy talking aboutthemselves.
That's how most companiesoperate.
They're too busy talking aboutthemselves to truly hear what
the customer needs and whatthey're saying.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Yeah.
Well, I, I, you know, I've beenreminded to the sink.
So, so much through this podcastis, you know, that's why we have
two years in one mouth.
So, you know, let's pivot alittle bit is, um, you've been
very active in, uh, helpingwomen find their way in, you
(35:31):
know, and especially in theinsurance industry, in a male
dominated industry, what aresome of the unique for women and
how can they succeed in thefinancial services industry?
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Right.
And that's kind of there, it'sactually complicated answer and
I know a lot of people try toover simplify it.
And that's where I think some ofthe issues are coming from is
that they assume that what'sholding all women back is going
to be the same for all women.
And it's not the, uh, the casebecause what the challenges are
for me as a mom are differentfrom someone who's fresh out of
(36:06):
college and starting out andalso depending on, um, each of
the different pockets of, of theenvironment.
Um, but what we definitely needto start with by having more
inclusivity and in most peoplemisunderstand that they think
inviting somebody, but expectingthem to be held to, you know,
act the same or be the same aseverybody else as being
(36:27):
inclusive.
And that's not, that'sassimilation.
You need it to be inclusivemeans being, allowing a woman to
be able to be a woman at thetable.
And, you know, being able tohave that diversity and, and
representing your entire clientbase, it's not just about women,
but women of color and women ofdifferent backgrounds and women
at different stages of theirlives.
(36:48):
Um, because they're going tohave different challenges and
different things that areinfluencing and, and holding
them back.
Um, definitely motherhood is ahuge factor that affects and
certain, certain companies arevery much about hitting those
quotas and working those crazyhours and not having the
flexibility, but it's still aknown fact that we're the
primary caregivers.
(37:08):
We're primarily once responsiblefor the household.
Um, even in a more fair, um,relationship, I'm still
constantly having to educate myown husband on what all it takes
to run the household and whatall it takes to make sure the
kids get off to school and getpicked up.
And if there's an issue I'mstill the first one that's
called or those types of things,you know, so those things impact
(37:29):
my flexibility, but that doesn'tmean that it's affecting the
quality of the work that I'mproducing or what I'm able to
bring to the table because wehave this expectation of a very,
a very specific way of workingthat was designed for, um, a
worker that did not have some ofthese responsibilities, but it
also means shifting to the otherside, we also need to allow
(37:50):
fathers to be fathers.
We need to be able to have thatflexibility in both sides.
It can't be just flexibility formothers.
Um, and there's been a lot ofcase studies and things where
they do put things in place tosupport mothers and support
working, working mothers in theenvironment that working fathers
are able to take advantage ofthat allows them to not only be
better employees, but betterfathers at home.
(38:12):
And it feeds both ways.
If you're satisfied at home,you're satisfied at work and
vice versa.
And if you get to bring yourbest self to both situations,
you're, you're just overallsatisfaction is going to be
better.
You're going to continue toproduce more and you're just
going to be just a betteremployee and a better staff
member overall.
So it's not, it's not a simple,um, solution, but the more that
(38:34):
we can be about havingrepresentation of, of women, of
all backgrounds in leadershiproles, in all departments that
they're not relegated toadministration or in the back
office, um, that they areactually serving in a variety of
roles that they're visible, thatvisibility is going to continue
to help.
Um, women also need to takecontrol of, um, learning how to
(38:57):
become more visible,communicating more.
Um, we just talked about this atthe a woman's conference in
February, and that was the wholetheme of the entire conferences
is get visible.
And how do you do that?
And it's helping women learn howto communicate what they're
bringing to the table, tootingtheir own horn a little bit more
, um, and, and really being ableto know and understand the value
(39:18):
that they bring, um, and beingable to also build alliances to
help them do that.
And so it's not a man versuswoman thing we need to be
working together.
Um, and, and same thing amongwomen, we need to be supporting
each other.
We need to be supporting, um,our male colleagues and vice
versa.
Anybody that's an ally for us.
Um, and then understanding againto what other different
(39:40):
backgrounds and what challengesdoes that bring and being able
to provide resources and supportand being willing to restructure
our expectations around work andwhat it means to produce and be
a good worker.
It's not necessarily that buttonseat scenario.
It's not necessarily a veryrigid work schedule.
It's not necessarily, um, youknow, there's just certain
(40:03):
aspects to what, how we've kindof evolved and what our
expectations are about whatmakes someone a good worker or a
producer in certain areas.
So often we don't actually lookat what they're producing.
We look at how much are theychecking in?
How much are they clocking in?
How much are they able to be atthe happy hours?
How much are they able to meetthese certain things?
And we need to change thatexpectation before we can get
(40:26):
any more diversity regardless ofgender, but just any diversity
in some of these more, um,diverse roles and in some of
these more leadership roles,
Speaker 1 (40:36):
What that that's powerful.
And, um, I think that does getback to a little bit of your
message about, um, the customer,is that the expectation is that
people, uh, and I think this istrue of most people just
innately is that we like peoplewho are like ourselves and feel
more comfortable about them.
(40:56):
But if we want to be genuine,genuinely, uh, inclusive with
our clients with our employeesis that we need to hear their
story, uh, and actually take itseriously, uh, and integrated
into what we do and think that,you know, point this isn't just
(41:16):
about us.
This is about how women feel,you know, as a man, how women
feel, um, you know, for thatonce or twice for my wife, maybe
so that I may not be listeningor interpreting her reality.
Um, and you know, so I thinkthat's just so powerful as to
change that perspective.
(41:38):
And, um, yeah, and I think atthe same time too, is, you know,
women or anybody else who is notthe majority in any situation is
that you do have to tell yourstory because people aren't
getting now, um, I've been insituations, you know, where I'm
not, you know, in the majorityis I'm breaking into a new, uh,
(42:03):
area.
And so it's always, you know, wwhat's that message, you know,
and, you know, I think all of usat certain points feel like,
yeah, we, we feel a little bitlike the outsider.
Um, and I know that women inbusiness, that's a huge problem.
Um, like, and I'm sure you'refamiliar with this is when I
came into the insuranceindustry, women were the HR
(42:25):
person that was the job.
You know, if women were going tobe a vice president, they were
going to be the vice presidentof HR.
And it was like, well, why, um,you know, maybe because I'm
younger, I grew up, you know,with a women being completely
equal and everything it did.
So I had no, uh, you know, itnever made sense to me.
(42:47):
So I know
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Where it was always all hands on deck.
So when I got into the workforceand I was like, why are, why are
all the guys over here?
You're my, all the gals overthere.
Like, it never sat well with mebecause that's not how I was.
Um, but one thing that youtalked to you about is you kind
of briefly mentioned on tellingyour story.
And that's one of the thingsthat I think women struggle with
in general.
(43:10):
And, and again, this came up alot at our conferences.
They discount their experience,they discount where they're
coming from.
Especially if you have to leave,you know, the workforce for
family reasons, or you have, um,there's, this we've come
embarrassed or, or kind ofdownplay certain things.
But when you have to remember isit's your story.
You own it.
(43:30):
You get to write the story thatyou're going to tell you, get to
write the story you're going tolive.
And so, you know, don't beashamed of, you know, that you
had to take time off to takecare of family.
Don't be ashamed of the factthat you can't go to every happy
hour.
Like I used to try and hit everyhappy hour, but I have three
children.
And my youngest is autistic.
(43:50):
You know, childcare is not easy,so I'm, I don't do happy hour
events anymore.
And I don't apologize for thatanymore is my, my story is, is
that after, you know, sixo'clock, that is time for my
family.
It is not time for work.
And that is my story.
My story is not, Oh, I can't dothis.
I don't get to go do this.
Or I had to take a yearsabbatical for health reasons.
(44:12):
It doesn't mean that you know,that my career is any less
valued.
That doesn't mean that mytrajectory is off or anything
like that is that I needed thatbreak.
It helped me re-energize and nowI'm that full force and can do
these things, but so often womenlike downplay or tuck or demean
their experience, or, you know,just have a negative story that
they tell about where they're atin their career, or what's
(44:35):
happening to their career, orwhat they feel is holding them
back in their career, instead ofchanging that story and, and,
and owning it and making it,putting a positive spin on it.
You're not lying.
You're just changing your pointof view, that the way that
you're looking at everything,instead of looking at it as a
challenge, instead of looking atit as a roadblock, what is the
(44:55):
opportunity?
What lesson did you learn if youhad a setback, if you had to
change industries, if you had tochange careers, you still
learned from those experiencesand those experiences still have
tremendous value on where you'reat today.
And how are you applying that ina positive way, focus on that
story instead of focusing on thenegative aspects, or again,
(45:17):
just, we're really good attelling bad stories about
ourselves.
And so that's something I thinkthat women really need to do.
And from, in terms of us, um,what we can control and what we
can do, we can control the storythat we're telling about
ourselves.
Um, not only to others, but inour own heads, we need to be
telling better stories toourselves in our own heads.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
Yeah, well, I think that's true of all people on
everything and, you know, T toget back to our conversation a
little bit about customers is Ithink that's also something with
customers that financialservices industry is they tell
negative stories, you know,people talk about, you know, the
claims problem they had, or theproblem with their bank
overcharged them or whatever isthat people tend to tell the
(45:59):
most negative story.
Um, and so I think it's sopowerful what you're doing is,
you know, helping people tochange their point of view and
to tell better story.
And that for companies, youknow, whether it's female
employees or, uh, minorityemployees, um, you know, what
(46:20):
have you, and for their owncustomers is, you know, they
have a different story and youhave to understand that.
And then you know, that we,each, as people have to, you
know, tell our own story.
So, you know, There you go ownit.
(46:42):
That can be that.
Uh, so, you know, um, what haveyou, um, how do you juggle all
these things?
Cause you've got a lot going onand that's when, uh, you know,
questions I always ask is how doyou juggle so much?
Speaker 2 (46:55):
Yeah.
And I mean, it's one of thosethings that I feel like recently
I've gotten much better at it.
Um, I've gotten really clearabout what I want, what I value
and what I need to be focusingmy time and energy on and be
like, I've eliminated everythingelse.
So there was a lot of things fora long time that I was doing,
because I was trying to live upto some expectation, especially
(47:19):
in the marketing space.
There's, it's such an ego drivenego driven industry.
Um, and there's just all theseexpectations that you have to
doing all these different things, um, and, you know, be
traveling and be doing all ofthese speaking engagements and
be, you know, have, um, videosgoing and podcasts going and
(47:39):
serve on X number of boards andbe seen and be seen and be seen.
And, um, I was doing all of thatand running myself into the
ground and not really seeing anyROI from it.
So I've gotten very clear aboutwhat I, what I will, what I
enjoy, what allows me to bringmy best self to the table.
What's in line with my valuesand what's in line with my
(47:59):
personal and professional goals.
So I do have some verysignificant personal health
goals right now that I'm notcompromising on whatsoever.
Um, and that has allowed me toeliminate a lot of activities.
So I don't do any happy hourevents anymore.
Um, I significantly limit mytravel to about once a month and
I am, you know, focused on thoseactivities that truly do allow
(48:23):
me to connect with like-mindedpeople that allow me to connect
with the right type of audiencesand industries.
And then I protect my time sothat I can get my downtime.
Um, if I can rest and rechargeproperly, I'm so much more
productive.
I can get four times more donein the same amount of time
versus a, by trying to forcemyself to do 12 hours straight.
(48:45):
I'm just wasting the other fourhours.
I'm not being productive at all.
Whereas if I get that downtimeand I have the time where I'm
focused with my family and thetime where I'm focused on
myself, then I can come, youknow, Roran really knock it out
of the park when I come to work.
Um, so that's been, the otherthing is I just don't feel
fresher to serve on boardsanymore, or to be present at all
(49:08):
of these events.
Um, and I don't feel pressuredto have to, um, you know,
glorify busy and, and just, youknow, work these crazy hours.
I focus more on, what's reallygonna move the needle and focus
on those projects instead.
And all the other stuff I'll getto it when I get to it, but to
do list is never done.
(49:28):
So I just, I, I do as much as Ican and, and then give, you
know, make sure I have thatthose boundaries in place.
So that's something, and I'veonly recently started doing
that, but it's made a hugedifference.
I feel a lot better.
Um, but, and I do see, I I'mable to bring my best self and,
and more quality ideas andquality work to my clients as
(49:49):
well as to my home, to myfamily.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
That's great.
Well, I know you've given mesome fantastic ideas, so I, I, I
know you're, you're deliveringyour best and, um, you know,
just to kind of close out, Ialso like to ask people, you
know, if they have a funny orinteresting story they want to
share.
Speaker 2 (50:06):
Oh, that one, um, I was, I was thinking about that.
I was trying to think of onethat was appropriate.
Speaker 1 (50:14):
Is this more of a happy hour story?
Speaker 2 (50:18):
Um, so I did stop drinking back in August, but,
um, and I never was a heavydrinker, but I did earn a
nickname at happy hour.
Um, so one of my nicknames, Iearned shenanigans.
Yeah.
Cause people can never, youknow, after, after they've had a
couple of drinks, no one can saymy name.
And so, um, yeah, that's my, oneof my nicknames is shenanigans
(50:40):
and most people's phones doauto-correct.
My name does shenanigans too.
So it kind of stuck one of the,I guess, more tame stories I
could share.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
Well, we could have another podcast to talk about
the rest of the stories.
Speaker 2 (50:59):
Well, we lead every podcast.
Speaker 1 (51:08):
This has been great, you know, I mean, you've shared
so much and I really appreciatethat.
Um, so where can people learnmore about you and I I'll put in
a URL in the show notes, but howcan people get in touch with you
and learn about what you'redoing?
Speaker 2 (51:24):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, so the name of our companiesis Connor creative company.
Now that's Connor, that's C O NN O R M because ever since I got
remarried, no, one's misspelledmy first name, but they keep
misspelling Connor, but it'sConnor, creative co.com is our
(51:44):
website.
And I'm, I blog there every weekand constantly putting out
resources and content there.
Again, I'm very, I mean, I'm alifelong learner, so I'm always
putting out educational contenton marketing and, um, leadership
and things like that.
Um, you can find me on LinkedIn.
I'm very active on LinkedIn andit's just Shenandoah Connor.
(52:05):
Um, and, uh, I kind of, youknow, do a little bit of
Twitter, not as much as I usedto, but I'm also on Twitter as
well.
And there I'm shin and do a TX.
Um, she didn't do a Texas.
Yeah.
So those would be the big waysto reach me.
Speaker 1 (52:21):
All right.
Well, fantastic.
I will add that, um, to the shownotes, so people will be able to
find you, um, thanks again forcoming on today.
It's been a pleasure and, uh,for everybody listening or
watching, please be sure tosubscribe to the podcast.
Uh, thanks again, Shenandoah.
It's been a real pleasure.
Speaker 2 (52:42):
Absolutely.
Thank you, Tony.
Speaker 3 (52:56):
[inaudible].
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