September 11, 2025 • 27 mins
The assassination of Charlie Kirk sent shockwaves through the Christian community, leaving many believers questioning why God would allow such darkness to prevail against someone who boldly proclaimed His truth. In this powerful episode, host Ron Myers welcomes author Paul Renfro to provide clarity on the spiritual warfare underlying such tragic events.
Renfro frames the conversation not as a simple battle between good and evil, but as part of God's sovereign plan for reconciliation with humanity. "God uses the kingdom of darkness as a scalpel," he explains, revealing how spiritual opposition serves to test believers, provoke them to seek God, and maintain their dependence on divine strength. This perspective transforms our understanding of tragedy from senseless violence to purposeful spiritual refinement.
The discussion delves into practical ways believers can respond to spiritual warfare. Rather than succumbing to fear or anger, Renfro encourages listeners to become students of God's Word, recognize the power of spiritual agreements, and verbally commit themselves to the Holy Spirit's leading. "Draw near to God and He will draw near to you," he reminds us, offering a simple yet profound strategy for overcoming darkness.
Most powerfully, this conversation reframes our spiritual position. Far from being victims in a cosmic battle, Christians stand at the top of the spiritual hierarchy through Christ's sacrifice, spiritual rebirth, and the indwelling Holy Spirit—three advantages Satan doesn't possess. As Paul writes in 2 Corinthians, "We fix our eyes not on what is seen but on what is unseen, for what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal."
For anyone struggling to make sense of tragedy or feeling overwhelmed by the darkness in our world, this episode offers biblical perspective, practical guidance, and renewed hope. What the enemy means for evil, God can transform for good—perhaps by raising up countless voices to replace the one that was silenced. As Ron concludes, "When you give Jesus your heart, you not only get the hell out of your life, but life begins to make sense."
- If you would like to be a guest and share your story, click this link: https://thepromoter.org/story/
Thanks for Listening, and subscribe to hear a new episode each week!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's time now to get the hell out of your life.
A weekly broadcast with realpeople sharing real struggles
and offering real hope.
Today's show will encourage,inspire and empower you to face
life's challenges with a boldconfidence and renewed hope.
Now let's join our host, ronMyers.
The promoter.
Ron Meyers (00:22):
Well, listeners, it is so good to be with you today.
Last week we had a terribletragedy in this country Charlie
Kirk, one of us, a believer, afollower of Jesus, one that
boldly proclaimed the truthamong college campuses, and he
was taken out by a bulletsilencing his voice.
(00:42):
And so I was puzzled, I wasconcerned and I was saddened,
and I thought of my friend, paulRenfro.
Paul has written some books onthe darkness in this world, the
spiritual forces that areagainst us, so I had to call
Paul.
I said Paul, I need clarity.
I want my listeners tounderstand the battle that we
(01:05):
are in light versus dark.
Paul, so glad to have you withme today.
How are you doing?
Paul Renfro (01:12):
Oh, thank you, Ron.
It's great to be with you, andI just love your audience,
because not only do they receivethe are they hungering and
thirsty for righteousness, butfrom you and your guests they're
really receiving a combinationof encouragement and wisdom that
they can implement in their ownlives.
So what a great bunch of peopleto be with.
Ron Meyers (01:33):
The shooting of Charlie Kirk, a voice in the
Christian community.
Now, my first thought these aremy first thought is this is a
demonic spiritual warfare.
The battle has been going on,but it's almost like I felt that
Satan has really turned up theheat to take out a voice like
(01:55):
that.
Am I right to think things likethat?
Is this a spiritual battlebetween good and evil?
Paul Renfro (02:02):
Well, you're on the way to right, and that's kind
of how the conversation goes inour world.
Let's move it to a biblicalframework, and then we'll get to
what's right faster.
How about that?
That sounds good, because goodand evil are not really the
primary topics in the Scripture.
(02:22):
The primary topic in scriptureis God Almighty and his desire
to be reconciled with humanbeings.
And so right away, the listenerneeds to understand that we're
not talking about religion.
We're talking about AlmightyGod, who is holy and never does
wrong.
And before he even made humanbeings, one of the archangels
(02:45):
got the big head and rebelled.
This is the one that we know asSatan.
So because of that, god thenmade us right where he had
exiled the fallen Lucifer.
Now, why would he make us veryweak and mortal in the same
place that he had exiled Lucifer?
This says a lot about GodAlmighty which are beyond the
(03:08):
scope of our conversation in ourtime frame.
But what happened with CharlieKirk?
You're right, it is warfare,but the warfare is continual and
erupts into the public eye, youknow, courtesy of our 24-7 news
cycles and our 188 newsbroadcasters.
The warfare is unabating and iscontinual, and you might say
(03:33):
it's on the macro scale, at theworld level of nations.
It's also against us, like ifyou're supposed to be preaching
in a church but stuck in atraffic jam.
You know, there's all kinds ofthings that can occur and they
all are symptoms of that warfare, but ultimately God is the
master of it.
In Revelation 13.8, you canlook it up, lister God reveals
(03:55):
that the Lamb was slain beforethe foundation of the world, and
the profundity of that isearthbending and will totally
demolish all your religiouscategories.
Because Jesus somehow had abody and was slain even before
the angels were made, thearchangels were made before we
(04:16):
were made or before creationexisted.
And we know that God is outsideof time and that's kind of how
that works, I guess.
But the point is that God hasalways been in control.
And lastly, on this reply,apostle Paul talked about the
hidden mysteries of God In 1Corinthians, chapter 2, it is
very, very germane to this topicand in verse 8, in verse 7, he
(04:39):
talks about the hidden wisdom ofGod, but now revealed.
Then he says if they had known,talking about the kingdom of
darkness, they would not havecrucified the Lord of glory.
And so because what happened?
Well, because Jesus died.
Listener, you can be reconciledwith God.
Almighty you, little old you,for all your faults, for all
(05:01):
your flaws, for all yourweakness, for all your faults,
for all your flaws, for all yourweakness, you can be reconciled
with God, because Jesus paidyour offense in full.
And that's not all.
You were born as a spirit.
That's why he said flesh givesbirth to flesh, but spirit gives
birth to spirit.
And you have to be born as aspirit.
But that's not all.
And he said I will send theHoly Spirit and he'll fill you.
(05:22):
So you got three legs up on thedevil.
Who does not have?
Speaker 4 (05:27):
the.
Paul Renfro (05:27):
Holy Spirit and has no reconciliation with God.
So far from being at the bottomof the heat in the world of
spirit, we're at the top, andthat's why we live by faith.
That's why Paul said we fix oureyes not on what is seen but on
what is unseen, for what isseen is temporary, but what is
unseen is eternal.
And so these are considerationsthat we take into account when
(05:50):
we look at this dread event forour nation and the others that
take place so frequently andreceive attention courtesy of
our broadcast system.
Ron Meyers (06:01):
A lot of people ask why does God permit these evil
beings in the kingdom ofdarkness under Satan to continue
existing?
Why does God permit them andtheir interference in our lives?
Paul Renfro (06:14):
Remember what Jesus said foxes have holes and birds
have nests, but the son of manhas nowhere to lay his head.
That's Luke 9, 54.
He said if anyone would comeafter me, let him deny himself,
take up his cross daily andfollow me, and that's Luke 9, 23
.
And Apostle Paul testifiedabout it in Galatians 2, 20,
(06:35):
when he said I've been crucifiedwith Christ.
It's no longer I who live, butChrist who lives in me, in the
life.
I live in the flesh.
I live by faith in the Son ofGod, who loved me and gave
himself for me, and so this isreally what we're, this is the
road we're on.
He's a Lord, it's a war that hehas permitted and he keeps them
(06:56):
in existence.
Remember, in Colossians, chapterone, Paul says all things are
in him, of him and for him, andhe holds all things together.
This includes the devil and itincludes demons and it includes
the kingdom of darkness.
And that seems kind of strange.
If you have kind of a black andwhite view of good and evil and
(07:17):
those things, just dig into thescripture and throw off the
usual boundaries and see who Godis and how he acts, because
that's what we're all about.
So God uses the kingdom ofdarkness as a scalpel for
humanity.
He wants us to know, and Paulsays in Galatians 3, the law was
a tutor for us that we mightlearn salvation by faith and our
(07:39):
reconciliation by God'sappointed means, which is Jesus'
death.
So in the same way, by God'sappointed means, which is Jesus'
death, so in the same way, thekingdom of darkness is like his
surgical tool he tests us.
Paul describes that in Romans 5.
Peter describes it in 1 Peter 1.
It's also a provocation to seekhim, and so Paul drew upon that
heavily when he was preachingon Mars Hill in Acts 17,.
(08:02):
That the kingdom of darknessand all the falsity and all of
the deception that evil spiritspractice, is all permitted by
God to provoke us to seek him.
So we have the choice.
And Ahab, in 1 Kings 22,.
He had the choice of listeningto the prophets sent by God,
micaiah, or listening to thehundreds and hundreds of evil
(08:26):
spirits in the mouth of hisfalse prophets.
Now, apostle Paul had to dealwith the enemy as well, as we
well know.
But he describes it directly in2 Corinthians 12.
So look these up, listener,because these will give you
instruction on why God permitsthese evil beings.
Of course they're eternalspirits and they're tireless,
(08:47):
and we know that from experience.
Right, and so it also provokesus to cry out to the Lord, and
it's the same way we train ourdogs.
It's how God keeps us on ashort leash.
So if you perceive that thereare enemies attempting their
influence in your life, thenlook to God.
What does it say?
Draw near to God and he willdraw near to you.
(09:10):
This is very simple.
That's James 4, 6.
So this is so elegant asolution, but really the fulcrum
of this lever which way willyou go?
The fulcrum is your choice.
Ron Meyers (09:21):
Very well put.
So to kind of shorten that up,god allows it because he wants
us, as we battle with theseprincipalities of darkness, to
draw closer to him, because he'salready defeated the darkness
and we cannot do it on our own.
We can only do it with Christalive in us.
(09:42):
Is that, in essence, whatyou're saying?
Paul Renfro (09:45):
It is, and that's why the Beatitudes are.
You know, the Lord composed theBeatitudes as very first
teaching in the New Testament,as the books are laid out.
Because what does it say?
Blessed are the poor in spirit.
Well, that makes no sense atall.
Because if our great enemy isan evil spirit, an archangelic
spirit who has been exiled andthen God made us here, well, we
(10:08):
died spiritually when we were onEve and sin every day.
But the Holy Spirit gives usrebirth by faith in Christ.
So Jesus said you must be bornagain.
That's what it means.
It's not just a mental exercise, it's not just a group of
beliefs I have, it's not just aSunday morning habit I have or
an everyday habit I have.
(10:29):
It is a person coming to livein me and it is a Holy Spirit of
God.
That's what we need becausewe're poor in spirit.
So you said it very well.
Ron Meyers (10:39):
Yeah, and even a stronger term we are united with
Christ.
We are united with Christ.
And so that's, we have tounderstand our identity in
Christ and the power we havethrough the Holy Spirit.
So today, someone's listeningthat still is grieving the loss
(11:02):
of children by shooters, theCharlie Kirk and all the other
evil atrocities, and they'rescared.
They don't know what to do.
And they're scared.
They don't know what to do.
What would you, paul, tell them?
What hope would you give themto bring them out of that dark
slump that they are in?
Paul Renfro (11:20):
Well, you can tell, my first answer is going to be
to be a student of the Word ofGod.
See in the Scripture, in ournormal human words, god reveals
the unseen world, and so thesedread and terrible things that
occur it might be a cancerdiagnosis or the other things
you've listed what did Paul say?
And that was 2 Corinthians 14.
(11:42):
He said what is seen istemporary, but what is unseen is
eternal.
And so our action begins withthe scripture.
We can't just go off in our ownideas or what we heard on
YouTube, or some preacher orwhat have you?
Okay, and then, secondly, wemust recognize that everything
in the world is agreement.
Everything, even God himself,embodies personal agreement as a
(12:06):
trinity, and the way he made usmale and female in his image,
how are two the image of three?
Because multi-personalagreement is required and even
electrons have to agree withnuclei, atoms have to agree with
other atoms.
Everything is agreement,including the kingdom of
darkness.
And because they have nofertility or fecundity, they
(12:27):
have to be very legalistic aboutagreements and contractual in
the way they operate.
This is the number one.
Then this is the third thingthat you can do, listener is you
just simply verbally becauseyou're a creature that speaks
commit yourself to the Lord andsay I identify with God Almighty
, I establish my agreement withthe Holy Spirit of God.
(12:50):
Holy Spirit, fill me to the max, every day, again, again and
anew and anew, over and over,like the apostles did in Acts.
And I need your help with thispersistent interloper and
interference, this demon ofalcoholism or this demon of
persistent sorrow, this demon ofchemical imbalance, this demon
(13:15):
of controlling compulsions,whatever.
You know, there's quite anumber to choose from.
And so well, let me, we don'tchoose them.
Let's rephrase that there'squite a number who may be
assigned to torment us or makeor trip us up and that kind of
thing.
Well, that's no worries,there's no need to be afraid,
listeners and viewers, becausethe Holy Spirit lives in you.
(13:38):
Do you think he's weaker?
I think not.
But what's the only thing heneeds?
He needs your agreement.
When you give him youragreement and he's free to
operate, then you just payattention, and that's kind of
the adventure of the Christianlife.
Just pay attention.
And that's kind of theadventure of the Christian life,
just pay attention.
A couple of verses that may behelpful along that line for the
listener to look up later Isaiah, chapter 50, verses 4 through 9
(14:03):
.
Just that one will give youplenty to work with.
Isaiah 24 through 35 areextremely potent about walking
every day with the Holy Spirit.
For instance, isaiah 30, verse21, says you'll hear a voice
behind you saying this is theway.
Walk in it.
And so that section of Isaiahis extremely potent for life in
(14:25):
the Spirit.
Ron Meyers (14:26):
A lot of people and I'm one of them.
When I heard this with CharlieKirk, I got angry.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
I got angry about this.
Ron Meyers (14:34):
And it's almost like I felt the Holy Spirit remind
me of a verse that what thedevil means for evil, God can
turn to good.
Paul Renfro (14:43):
In other words, it's like yeah, that's Genesis
50 by Joseph.
Ron Meyers (14:46):
And it's like God was saying Ron, the story's not
over.
There is something that's goingto come out of this.
The hope is that there's goingto be little.
Charlie Kirks raised up allacross this nation.
He's gone, but he had such animpact that let's go through
that little time of anger butalso look at what can we do to
(15:07):
spread the good news.
What can we do?
Let's turn that anger into aanticipation or something of
what God is going to do, becauseGod allowed this, god allowed
this, no matter how we feelabout that, but the story's not
over.
You know what's that saying?
The opera's not over till thefat lady sings.
Well, the fat lady hasn't sungyet and I think she's getting
(15:29):
ready to what do you?
Paul Renfro (15:30):
think there's every indication.
People have always thought thatsince the Lord ascended to
heaven.
So we have to be modest in ourassessment of the heavenly
timetable as it manifests withinour linear time.
However, let's just put it thisway In Gethsemane, what did
Jesus tell the three disciples?
(15:50):
Watch and pray.
And at the end of his discourseabout the end times, what did
he say?
Watch and pray, and how do wewatch?
One is we're continuallyholding up the Bible next to our
video feed, or whatever.
And so, the point being, it'salways a war.
The variable is not whetherthere's a war, the variable is
(16:12):
what we're aware of and how werespond to it.
Now I'm angry too, let me justput it that way.
I'm angry too, and withoutnaming names, I can just tell
the listener the assassinationof Charlie Kirk a political
assassination and he is hiswhole mindset, as one deeply
(16:42):
embroiled in the lab is that heis confined within an echo
chamber of self-reinforcingconsensus bias and if you're
interested in surveys andstatistics, you can look up that
term consensus bias.
Well, we can be too.
That's why we don't stick ourhead in the sand, but we're
aware of what goes on around us.
(17:02):
Look at Apostle Paul's example.
When he wanted to preach inAthens, he went to the
headquarters of the paganphilosophers.
When he wanted to preach inEphesus, and the circumstances
in Ephesus, he went straightinto the battle.
And this is the amazing thingwhen you read at Ephesus, which
is Acts 19, many people weresaved and Paul's people were
(17:26):
healed by his handkerchiefs.
And then guess what?
Then this tremendous event ofdemonic power occurred for the
Jewish itinerant exorcists andall of a sudden, it says listen
to this, ron, everyone whobelieved brought out their magic
scrolls into the public squareand burned them, and the value
(17:46):
was estimated at 50,000 drachma,which is about 30 years of
wages.
How is it that they knew thevalue?
Because there was a readymarket for those magic scrolls.
We have to be alert to theseconsistent influences of evil
and there's no better alarmsystem than knowing the word of
(18:07):
God.
You can tell from listening tome that I've spent a lot of time
memorizing and learning andit's paid off for me, but not
only that, for people Iinfluence.
So, listener Ron, I really wantyour listeners to get it that,
if anything else, this CharlieKirk assassination should spur
(18:27):
us to bring the hurt upon thekingdom of darkness with the
Word of God.
Ron Meyers (18:32):
Before we conclude our conversation today, I'd like
two things from you.
If you would Offer some hopeand encouragement to our
listeners, and then will youclose us out in one of those?
Paul Renfro prayers.
Paul Renfro (18:48):
Well, if there's anything powerful about me, you
know that it is the Holy Spiritwithin me, because I am poor in
spirit and I'm more than meek,but a hunger and thirst for
righteousness, and it's turnedme into a merciful person who
makes peace and also endurespersecution for the Lord's sake,
and that's the Beatitudes, thatis a Beatitude attitude.
(19:10):
This is what gives me hope andI guess if there's a theme to
this podcast, the theme is thatverse in 2 Corinthians, 4, 4.18,
I'm pretty sure it is.
And that is we do not focus onwhat is seen but on what is
unseen, for what is seen istemporary but what is unseen is
(19:32):
eternal.
Now, that includes your spirit.
You, listener, if you have putyour faith in Jesus being born
again, means that you've gotmore.
You're back to the condition ofAdam and Eve when they were
first created Body, soul andspirit.
But you've got more.
They were not filled with theHoly Spirit and you are.
And so what's the hope?
(19:54):
John 14, 23 is so beautiful.
The poor disciples.
They were so befuddled byJesus' cryptic statements there
after they had the Last Supperand he announced the new
covenant, covenant of his blood,and then he explained it to
them in John 13 through 17.
And what did he say, sam?
They said, hey, we don't knowwhere you're going.
(20:14):
How can we follow you and getwhat he says?
He says if anyone loves me,he'll keep my commands and my
father and I will love him andwe'll make our home in him.
This is profound because inJohn 15, he's talking about I go
to prepare a place for you, andhe's using the word home
(20:35):
repeatedly, but he talks just asmuch about God's home as our
home, and that home is together.
So we can be any more hopefulthan the knowledge that the home
of God on earth is in you andin us who follow Jesus.
Now, obviously, when youconsider this, it produces
(20:58):
poverty of spirit, mourning,meekness, a great deal more
quickly, because it's veryembarrassing if God Almighty
lives right within you and yourealize, man, I'm really the
weak link in the chain here, buthe's rushed his end to fill
every vacuum, and so it's really, really beautiful to know him
and to walk with him.
Ron Meyers (21:18):
That is so well put, paul.
And one last thing your website.
How do people find out moreabout you in your series of
books?
Paul Renfro (21:27):
Oh, thank you so much.
It's the Unseen series, inwhich I write about the unseen
realm and some of the mysteriesthat God kept hidden for so long
, and the website isParadigmLighthousecom Paradigm
P-A-R-A-D-I-G-M, lighthousecom,and there you can get a free
(21:48):
book as well.
If you fill out that welcomegreeting in the contact form,
I'll send you the prequel to theUnseen series, which is titled
how to Unveil the Unseen andLive as a Spirit.
So it's very germane to whatwe've been talking about today.
It's only 54 pages, so evenpeople who aren't big readers
will get a lot out of it.
Ron Meyers (22:10):
Well, paul, thank you again, God bless you, and
we'll talk to you again verysoon.
You got it, and now close usout in prayer.
Paul Renfro (22:19):
Lord God, there is no prayer that's more justified
than reflecting to you thegreatness of your glory, and we
praise you and glorify youbecause you made all things and
then you orchestrated outside oftime this great drama in which
you're saving human beings to beyour companions for eternity in
(22:44):
the unseen world and, in fact,replacing those angels who
betrayed you with us who areloyal to you.
And so we're asking you thatyou, holy Spirit, would fill us
again today, fill us right now,and enable us to demonstrate the
loyalty, the admiration, therespect and the agreement that
(23:09):
you earned fair and square, byorchestrating this great plan
and including us as your eternalcompanions.
We really cry out to you withconfession and humility, not
simply because we did, you know,some X, y, z wrong, but because
(23:29):
we are incapable until youreform our flesh in the
afterlife.
We are incapable of the loyaltythat only you can provide
within us, and so we're callingout to you and casting ourselves
upon you, because you havebrought us into this unseen
world, for which we areextremely incapable.
(23:52):
And so we're calling out to you, brought us into this unseen
world, for which we areextremely incapable.
And so we're calling out to you, lord Jesus.
We ask that everyone influencedby the assassination of Charlie
Kirk would fall into this samehumility, mourning and meekness
that you promoted when youcalled it blessed and when you
said that such people were theroyalty of the kingdom of heaven
(24:13):
.
We're asking for this.
We're asking that his familyand everyone who has a gigantic
hole in their lives as a resultof his assassination, lord Jesus
, we ask that you would rush inand fill that vacuum with, just
like Ron said earlier, all thoselittle Charlie Kirks that will
rise up and multiply your voiceof righteousness in this world.
(24:38):
For, truly, he was an exampleof someone who hungered and
thirsted for righteousness, anda peacemaker.
So we're asking you, holySpirit, to make us like that,
make us like Jesus, and help usto deny ourselves every day in
the same way, to come before youwith humility, hunger and
thirst for righteousness.
Ron Meyers (25:04):
Listeners.
It was very important to me tobring this program to you this
week because a lot of us areconfused, upset and angry, but
remember this greater is hethat's in you than he that is in
the world.
Friends, you're going to getthrough this.
It's going to be.
Something good is going to comeout of this.
(25:25):
I absolutely positively believethat I'll be back next week
with another episode of Get theHell Out of your Life, available
on all podcast platforms.
Please share this program withother people Until next week.
This is Ron Myers, remindingyou that I love you, jesus loves
you, and when you give Jesusyour heart, you not only get the
(25:49):
hell out of your life, but lifewill begin to make sense.
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A weekly broadcast with realpeople sharing real struggles
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Today's show will encourage,inspire and empower you to face
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Now let's join our host, ronMyers.
The promoter.
Ron Meyers (00:22):
Well, listeners, it is so good to be with you today.
Last week we had a terribletragedy in this country Charlie
Kirk, one of us, a believer, afollower of Jesus, one that
boldly proclaimed the truthamong college campuses, and he
was taken out by a bulletsilencing his voice.
(00:42):
And so I was puzzled, I wasconcerned and I was saddened,
and I thought of my friend, paulRenfro.
Paul has written some books onthe darkness in this world, the
spiritual forces that areagainst us, so I had to call
Paul.
I said Paul, I need clarity.
I want my listeners tounderstand the battle that we
(01:05):
are in light versus dark.
Paul, so glad to have you withme today.
How are you doing?
Paul Renfro (01:12):
Oh, thank you, Ron.
It's great to be with you, andI just love your audience,
because not only do they receivethe are they hungering and
thirsty for righteousness, butfrom you and your guests they're
really receiving a combinationof encouragement and wisdom that
they can implement in their ownlives.
So what a great bunch of peopleto be with.
Ron Meyers (01:33):
The shooting of Charlie Kirk, a voice in the
Christian community.
Now, my first thought these aremy first thought is this is a
demonic spiritual warfare.
The battle has been going on,but it's almost like I felt that
Satan has really turned up theheat to take out a voice like
(01:55):
that.
Am I right to think things likethat?
Is this a spiritual battlebetween good and evil?
Paul Renfro (02:02):
Well, you're on the way to right, and that's kind
of how the conversation goes inour world.
Let's move it to a biblicalframework, and then we'll get to
what's right faster.
How about that?
That sounds good, because goodand evil are not really the
primary topics in the Scripture.
(02:22):
The primary topic in scriptureis God Almighty and his desire
to be reconciled with humanbeings.
And so right away, the listenerneeds to understand that we're
not talking about religion.
We're talking about AlmightyGod, who is holy and never does
wrong.
And before he even made humanbeings, one of the archangels
(02:45):
got the big head and rebelled.
This is the one that we know asSatan.
So because of that, god thenmade us right where he had
exiled the fallen Lucifer.
Now, why would he make us veryweak and mortal in the same
place that he had exiled Lucifer?
This says a lot about GodAlmighty which are beyond the
(03:08):
scope of our conversation in ourtime frame.
But what happened with CharlieKirk?
You're right, it is warfare,but the warfare is continual and
erupts into the public eye, youknow, courtesy of our 24-7 news
cycles and our 188 newsbroadcasters.
The warfare is unabating and iscontinual, and you might say
(03:33):
it's on the macro scale, at theworld level of nations.
It's also against us, like ifyou're supposed to be preaching
in a church but stuck in atraffic jam.
You know, there's all kinds ofthings that can occur and they
all are symptoms of that warfare, but ultimately God is the
master of it.
In Revelation 13.8, you canlook it up, lister God reveals
(03:55):
that the Lamb was slain beforethe foundation of the world, and
the profundity of that isearthbending and will totally
demolish all your religiouscategories.
Because Jesus somehow had abody and was slain even before
the angels were made, thearchangels were made before we
(04:16):
were made or before creationexisted.
And we know that God is outsideof time and that's kind of how
that works, I guess.
But the point is that God hasalways been in control.
And lastly, on this reply,apostle Paul talked about the
hidden mysteries of God In 1Corinthians, chapter 2, it is
very, very germane to this topicand in verse 8, in verse 7, he
(04:39):
talks about the hidden wisdom ofGod, but now revealed.
Then he says if they had known,talking about the kingdom of
darkness, they would not havecrucified the Lord of glory.
And so because what happened?
Well, because Jesus died.
Listener, you can be reconciledwith God.
Almighty you, little old you,for all your faults, for all
(05:01):
your flaws, for all yourweakness, for all your faults,
for all your flaws, for all yourweakness, you can be reconciled
with God, because Jesus paidyour offense in full.
And that's not all.
You were born as a spirit.
That's why he said flesh givesbirth to flesh, but spirit gives
birth to spirit.
And you have to be born as aspirit.
But that's not all.
And he said I will send theHoly Spirit and he'll fill you.
(05:22):
So you got three legs up on thedevil.
Who does not have?
Speaker 4 (05:27):
the.
Paul Renfro (05:27):
Holy Spirit and has no reconciliation with God.
So far from being at the bottomof the heat in the world of
spirit, we're at the top, andthat's why we live by faith.
That's why Paul said we fix oureyes not on what is seen but on
what is unseen, for what isseen is temporary, but what is
unseen is eternal.
And so these are considerationsthat we take into account when
(05:50):
we look at this dread event forour nation and the others that
take place so frequently andreceive attention courtesy of
our broadcast system.
Ron Meyers (06:01):
A lot of people ask why does God permit these evil
beings in the kingdom ofdarkness under Satan to continue
existing?
Why does God permit them andtheir interference in our lives?
Paul Renfro (06:14):
Remember what Jesus said foxes have holes and birds
have nests, but the son of manhas nowhere to lay his head.
That's Luke 9, 54.
He said if anyone would comeafter me, let him deny himself,
take up his cross daily andfollow me, and that's Luke 9, 23
.
And Apostle Paul testifiedabout it in Galatians 2, 20,
(06:35):
when he said I've been crucifiedwith Christ.
It's no longer I who live, butChrist who lives in me, in the
life.
I live in the flesh.
I live by faith in the Son ofGod, who loved me and gave
himself for me, and so this isreally what we're, this is the
road we're on.
He's a Lord, it's a war that hehas permitted and he keeps them
(06:56):
in existence.
Remember, in Colossians, chapterone, Paul says all things are
in him, of him and for him, andhe holds all things together.
This includes the devil and itincludes demons and it includes
the kingdom of darkness.
And that seems kind of strange.
If you have kind of a black andwhite view of good and evil and
(07:17):
those things, just dig into thescripture and throw off the
usual boundaries and see who Godis and how he acts, because
that's what we're all about.
So God uses the kingdom ofdarkness as a scalpel for
humanity.
He wants us to know, and Paulsays in Galatians 3, the law was
a tutor for us that we mightlearn salvation by faith and our
(07:39):
reconciliation by God'sappointed means, which is Jesus'
death.
So in the same way, by God'sappointed means, which is Jesus'
death, so in the same way, thekingdom of darkness is like his
surgical tool he tests us.
Paul describes that in Romans 5.
Peter describes it in 1 Peter 1.
It's also a provocation to seekhim, and so Paul drew upon that
heavily when he was preachingon Mars Hill in Acts 17,.
(08:02):
That the kingdom of darknessand all the falsity and all of
the deception that evil spiritspractice, is all permitted by
God to provoke us to seek him.
So we have the choice.
And Ahab, in 1 Kings 22,.
He had the choice of listeningto the prophets sent by God,
micaiah, or listening to thehundreds and hundreds of evil
(08:26):
spirits in the mouth of hisfalse prophets.
Now, apostle Paul had to dealwith the enemy as well, as we
well know.
But he describes it directly in2 Corinthians 12.
So look these up, listener,because these will give you
instruction on why God permitsthese evil beings.
Of course they're eternalspirits and they're tireless,
(08:47):
and we know that from experience.
Right, and so it also provokesus to cry out to the Lord, and
it's the same way we train ourdogs.
It's how God keeps us on ashort leash.
So if you perceive that thereare enemies attempting their
influence in your life, thenlook to God.
What does it say?
Draw near to God and he willdraw near to you.
(09:10):
This is very simple.
That's James 4, 6.
So this is so elegant asolution, but really the fulcrum
of this lever which way willyou go?
The fulcrum is your choice.
Ron Meyers (09:21):
Very well put.
So to kind of shorten that up,god allows it because he wants
us, as we battle with theseprincipalities of darkness, to
draw closer to him, because he'salready defeated the darkness
and we cannot do it on our own.
We can only do it with Christalive in us.
(09:42):
Is that, in essence, whatyou're saying?
Paul Renfro (09:45):
It is, and that's why the Beatitudes are.
You know, the Lord composed theBeatitudes as very first
teaching in the New Testament,as the books are laid out.
Because what does it say?
Blessed are the poor in spirit.
Well, that makes no sense atall.
Because if our great enemy isan evil spirit, an archangelic
spirit who has been exiled andthen God made us here, well, we
(10:08):
died spiritually when we were onEve and sin every day.
But the Holy Spirit gives usrebirth by faith in Christ.
So Jesus said you must be bornagain.
That's what it means.
It's not just a mental exercise, it's not just a group of
beliefs I have, it's not just aSunday morning habit I have or
an everyday habit I have.
(10:29):
It is a person coming to livein me and it is a Holy Spirit of
God.
That's what we need becausewe're poor in spirit.
So you said it very well.
Ron Meyers (10:39):
Yeah, and even a stronger term we are united with
Christ.
We are united with Christ.
And so that's, we have tounderstand our identity in
Christ and the power we havethrough the Holy Spirit.
So today, someone's listeningthat still is grieving the loss
(11:02):
of children by shooters, theCharlie Kirk and all the other
evil atrocities, and they'rescared.
They don't know what to do.
And they're scared.
They don't know what to do.
What would you, paul, tell them?
What hope would you give themto bring them out of that dark
slump that they are in?
Paul Renfro (11:20):
Well, you can tell, my first answer is going to be
to be a student of the Word ofGod.
See in the Scripture, in ournormal human words, god reveals
the unseen world, and so thesedread and terrible things that
occur it might be a cancerdiagnosis or the other things
you've listed what did Paul say?
And that was 2 Corinthians 14.
(11:42):
He said what is seen istemporary, but what is unseen is
eternal.
And so our action begins withthe scripture.
We can't just go off in our ownideas or what we heard on
YouTube, or some preacher orwhat have you?
Okay, and then, secondly, wemust recognize that everything
in the world is agreement.
Everything, even God himself,embodies personal agreement as a
(12:06):
trinity, and the way he made usmale and female in his image,
how are two the image of three?
Because multi-personalagreement is required and even
electrons have to agree withnuclei, atoms have to agree with
other atoms.
Everything is agreement,including the kingdom of
darkness.
And because they have nofertility or fecundity, they
(12:27):
have to be very legalistic aboutagreements and contractual in
the way they operate.
This is the number one.
Then this is the third thingthat you can do, listener is you
just simply verbally becauseyou're a creature that speaks
commit yourself to the Lord andsay I identify with God Almighty
, I establish my agreement withthe Holy Spirit of God.
(12:50):
Holy Spirit, fill me to the max, every day, again, again and
anew and anew, over and over,like the apostles did in Acts.
And I need your help with thispersistent interloper and
interference, this demon ofalcoholism or this demon of
persistent sorrow, this demon ofchemical imbalance, this demon
(13:15):
of controlling compulsions,whatever.
You know, there's quite anumber to choose from.
And so well, let me, we don'tchoose them.
Let's rephrase that there'squite a number who may be
assigned to torment us or makeor trip us up and that kind of
thing.
Well, that's no worries,there's no need to be afraid,
listeners and viewers, becausethe Holy Spirit lives in you.
(13:38):
Do you think he's weaker?
I think not.
But what's the only thing heneeds?
He needs your agreement.
When you give him youragreement and he's free to
operate, then you just payattention, and that's kind of
the adventure of the Christianlife.
Just pay attention.
And that's kind of theadventure of the Christian life,
just pay attention.
A couple of verses that may behelpful along that line for the
listener to look up later Isaiah, chapter 50, verses 4 through 9
(14:03):
.
Just that one will give youplenty to work with.
Isaiah 24 through 35 areextremely potent about walking
every day with the Holy Spirit.
For instance, isaiah 30, verse21, says you'll hear a voice
behind you saying this is theway.
Walk in it.
And so that section of Isaiahis extremely potent for life in
(14:25):
the Spirit.
Ron Meyers (14:26):
A lot of people and I'm one of them.
When I heard this with CharlieKirk, I got angry.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
I got angry about this.
Ron Meyers (14:34):
And it's almost like I felt the Holy Spirit remind
me of a verse that what thedevil means for evil, God can
turn to good.
Paul Renfro (14:43):
In other words, it's like yeah, that's Genesis
50 by Joseph.
Ron Meyers (14:46):
And it's like God was saying Ron, the story's not
over.
There is something that's goingto come out of this.
The hope is that there's goingto be little.
Charlie Kirks raised up allacross this nation.
He's gone, but he had such animpact that let's go through
that little time of anger butalso look at what can we do to
(15:07):
spread the good news.
What can we do?
Let's turn that anger into aanticipation or something of
what God is going to do, becauseGod allowed this, god allowed
this, no matter how we feelabout that, but the story's not
over.
You know what's that saying?
The opera's not over till thefat lady sings.
Well, the fat lady hasn't sungyet and I think she's getting
(15:29):
ready to what do you?
Paul Renfro (15:30):
think there's every indication.
People have always thought thatsince the Lord ascended to
heaven.
So we have to be modest in ourassessment of the heavenly
timetable as it manifests withinour linear time.
However, let's just put it thisway In Gethsemane, what did
Jesus tell the three disciples?
(15:50):
Watch and pray.
And at the end of his discourseabout the end times, what did
he say?
Watch and pray, and how do wewatch?
One is we're continuallyholding up the Bible next to our
video feed, or whatever.
And so, the point being, it'salways a war.
The variable is not whetherthere's a war, the variable is
(16:12):
what we're aware of and how werespond to it.
Now I'm angry too, let me justput it that way.
I'm angry too, and withoutnaming names, I can just tell
the listener the assassinationof Charlie Kirk a political
assassination and he is hiswhole mindset, as one deeply
(16:42):
embroiled in the lab is that heis confined within an echo
chamber of self-reinforcingconsensus bias and if you're
interested in surveys andstatistics, you can look up that
term consensus bias.
Well, we can be too.
That's why we don't stick ourhead in the sand, but we're
aware of what goes on around us.
(17:02):
Look at Apostle Paul's example.
When he wanted to preach inAthens, he went to the
headquarters of the paganphilosophers.
When he wanted to preach inEphesus, and the circumstances
in Ephesus, he went straightinto the battle.
And this is the amazing thingwhen you read at Ephesus, which
is Acts 19, many people weresaved and Paul's people were
(17:26):
healed by his handkerchiefs.
And then guess what?
Then this tremendous event ofdemonic power occurred for the
Jewish itinerant exorcists andall of a sudden, it says listen
to this, ron, everyone whobelieved brought out their magic
scrolls into the public squareand burned them, and the value
(17:46):
was estimated at 50,000 drachma,which is about 30 years of
wages.
How is it that they knew thevalue?
Because there was a readymarket for those magic scrolls.
We have to be alert to theseconsistent influences of evil
and there's no better alarmsystem than knowing the word of
(18:07):
God.
You can tell from listening tome that I've spent a lot of time
memorizing and learning andit's paid off for me, but not
only that, for people Iinfluence.
So, listener Ron, I really wantyour listeners to get it that,
if anything else, this CharlieKirk assassination should spur
(18:27):
us to bring the hurt upon thekingdom of darkness with the
Word of God.
Ron Meyers (18:32):
Before we conclude our conversation today, I'd like
two things from you.
If you would Offer some hopeand encouragement to our
listeners, and then will youclose us out in one of those?
Paul Renfro prayers.
Paul Renfro (18:48):
Well, if there's anything powerful about me, you
know that it is the Holy Spiritwithin me, because I am poor in
spirit and I'm more than meek,but a hunger and thirst for
righteousness, and it's turnedme into a merciful person who
makes peace and also endurespersecution for the Lord's sake,
and that's the Beatitudes, thatis a Beatitude attitude.
(19:10):
This is what gives me hope andI guess if there's a theme to
this podcast, the theme is thatverse in 2 Corinthians, 4, 4.18,
I'm pretty sure it is.
And that is we do not focus onwhat is seen but on what is
unseen, for what is seen istemporary but what is unseen is
(19:32):
eternal.
Now, that includes your spirit.
You, listener, if you have putyour faith in Jesus being born
again, means that you've gotmore.
You're back to the condition ofAdam and Eve when they were
first created Body, soul andspirit.
But you've got more.
They were not filled with theHoly Spirit and you are.
And so what's the hope?
(19:54):
John 14, 23 is so beautiful.
The poor disciples.
They were so befuddled byJesus' cryptic statements there
after they had the Last Supperand he announced the new
covenant, covenant of his blood,and then he explained it to
them in John 13 through 17.
And what did he say, sam?
They said, hey, we don't knowwhere you're going.
(20:14):
How can we follow you and getwhat he says?
He says if anyone loves me,he'll keep my commands and my
father and I will love him andwe'll make our home in him.
This is profound because inJohn 15, he's talking about I go
to prepare a place for you, andhe's using the word home
(20:35):
repeatedly, but he talks just asmuch about God's home as our
home, and that home is together.
So we can be any more hopefulthan the knowledge that the home
of God on earth is in you andin us who follow Jesus.
Now, obviously, when youconsider this, it produces
(20:58):
poverty of spirit, mourning,meekness, a great deal more
quickly, because it's veryembarrassing if God Almighty
lives right within you and yourealize, man, I'm really the
weak link in the chain here, buthe's rushed his end to fill
every vacuum, and so it's really, really beautiful to know him
and to walk with him.
Ron Meyers (21:18):
That is so well put, paul.
And one last thing your website.
How do people find out moreabout you in your series of
books?
Paul Renfro (21:27):
Oh, thank you so much.
It's the Unseen series, inwhich I write about the unseen
realm and some of the mysteriesthat God kept hidden for so long
, and the website isParadigmLighthousecom Paradigm
P-A-R-A-D-I-G-M, lighthousecom,and there you can get a free
(21:48):
book as well.
If you fill out that welcomegreeting in the contact form,
I'll send you the prequel to theUnseen series, which is titled
how to Unveil the Unseen andLive as a Spirit.
So it's very germane to whatwe've been talking about today.
It's only 54 pages, so evenpeople who aren't big readers
will get a lot out of it.
Ron Meyers (22:10):
Well, paul, thank you again, God bless you, and
we'll talk to you again verysoon.
You got it, and now close usout in prayer.
Paul Renfro (22:19):
Lord God, there is no prayer that's more justified
than reflecting to you thegreatness of your glory, and we
praise you and glorify youbecause you made all things and
then you orchestrated outside oftime this great drama in which
you're saving human beings to beyour companions for eternity in
(22:44):
the unseen world and, in fact,replacing those angels who
betrayed you with us who areloyal to you.
And so we're asking you thatyou, holy Spirit, would fill us
again today, fill us right now,and enable us to demonstrate the
loyalty, the admiration, therespect and the agreement that
(23:09):
you earned fair and square, byorchestrating this great plan
and including us as your eternalcompanions.
We really cry out to you withconfession and humility, not
simply because we did, you know,some X, y, z wrong, but because
(23:29):
we are incapable until youreform our flesh in the
afterlife.
We are incapable of the loyaltythat only you can provide
within us, and so we're callingout to you and casting ourselves
upon you, because you havebrought us into this unseen
world, for which we areextremely incapable.
(23:52):
And so we're calling out to you, brought us into this unseen
world, for which we areextremely incapable.
And so we're calling out to you, lord Jesus.
We ask that everyone influencedby the assassination of Charlie
Kirk would fall into this samehumility, mourning and meekness
that you promoted when youcalled it blessed and when you
said that such people were theroyalty of the kingdom of heaven
(24:13):
.
We're asking for this.
We're asking that his familyand everyone who has a gigantic
hole in their lives as a resultof his assassination, lord Jesus
, we ask that you would rush inand fill that vacuum with, just
like Ron said earlier, all thoselittle Charlie Kirks that will
rise up and multiply your voiceof righteousness in this world.
(24:38):
For, truly, he was an exampleof someone who hungered and
thirsted for righteousness, anda peacemaker.
So we're asking you, holySpirit, to make us like that,
make us like Jesus, and help usto deny ourselves every day in
the same way, to come before youwith humility, hunger and
thirst for righteousness.
Ron Meyers (25:04):
Listeners.
It was very important to me tobring this program to you this
week because a lot of us areconfused, upset and angry, but
remember this greater is hethat's in you than he that is in
the world.
Friends, you're going to getthrough this.
It's going to be.
Something good is going to comeout of this.
(25:25):
I absolutely positively believethat I'll be back next week
with another episode of Get theHell Out of your Life, available
on all podcast platforms.
Please share this program withother people Until next week.
This is Ron Myers, remindingyou that I love you, jesus loves
you, and when you give Jesusyour heart, you not only get the
(25:49):
hell out of your life, but lifewill begin to make sense.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Today's show is proudly underwritten by the
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For more information, visitChristmasCityGiftShowcom.
If you would like to be a guestand share your story of God's
(26:27):
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share your story tab button.
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotheredition of get the hell out of
your life real stories, realstruggles and real hope.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
Hi, I'm Dr Andrew Farley, host of the Grace
Message.
Got a Bible question,struggling with a personal issue
, Wondering about a tricky verse.
At BibleQuestionscom, you'llget clear, grace-based answers
in 10 seconds or less.
No fluff, no confusion, justpractical biblical truth.
(27:06):
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Visit BibleQuestionscom.
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