In this third and final installment of our three part interview series with Division III Men's Lacrosse coaches, Dave Webster of Dickinson and Scott Hackett-Dalgleish of RPI, our guests describe the inner workings of their recruiting process and how they interact with young recruits and their parents.
Importantly, they reveal the timeline of initial communication, and subsequent communication leading up to the college visit.
During this process the coaches discuss what they consider to be the some very pertinent "Do's and Don'ts" for both recruits and their families.
And finally, our roving reporter, Steve Gresalfi, joins us and asks some hilarious and intriguing questions of our guests. Their answers will likely surprise you!
So sit back, listen in, and get ready for some useful information and some laughs at The Big Dawg's expense at the end! And please subscribe, tell a lacrosse friend about us, and leave a review. It helps support the podcast and allows us to grow our message.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jay (00:00):
It's time for get the La Scoop, a podcast bringing you
all the people and stuff youshould know.
In the game of lacrosse, we takeLAX seriously, but ourselves,
not so much.
Join hosts, big Dog and Jaybird,and the biggest names in the
game.
Brought to you by Jay McMahonlacrosse.
That's J M L Skills, mindset,and LAX IQ training.
(00:23):
Ron Doish, the big dog, was acollegiate football and lacrosse
player at Brown.
He was also an assistantlacrosse coach and the executive
director of the sports found.
and Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, athree time All-American
Midfielder Brown.
He was a captain of the USJunior National team and is the
founder of J M L.
And joining us in the studio,Steve gfi, who's collegiate
(00:46):
lacrosse career statisticsequals one goal against
Dartmouth.
Ron (00:53):
This podcast is brought to you by j McMahon Lacrosse.
Now that's a mouthful, so let'sgo with j m l lacrosse
Jay (01:00):
skills.
Oh, Ron.
J m l has lacrosse in there, sojust
Ron (01:05):
jml friends get used to.
Jay interrupting me all thetime.
it's maddening.
Fine, Jay, it's Jml skills.
Mindset and LAX IQ training,helping the next generation
cross players.
Get to the next level.
So everyone, we're reallyexcited to bring you the next
episode of Get the Lack Scoop.
(01:25):
We've got two great divisionthree head coaches, with us
today.
And that we do, you will findour third and final installment
of our series with coaches, DaveWebster of Dickinson and Scott
Hackett.
from RPI in progress.
Enjoy.
Ron Dawg (01:46):
Weby, I'm gonna go off script again.
Just continue to drive Jaycrazy.
Um, I, I'm just wondering, like,you know, I like to respect our
guest time.
Well, you know, I, I know.
Unlike yourself, I think they'reen enjoy.
I think, look it, they'resmiling, they're enjoying
themselves, Jay.
They're loving this.
I hope so.
But, you know, WEBY getting a,again, back to the relationship.
What's, what's it like, youknow, here you are as a, as a
(02:08):
career coach who came from a dadwho was a coach and an educator,
and now you've got this youngpup who was part of one of your
early classes, who's become ahead coach at the division three
level.
It's gotta be like, you know,it's gotta be a little surreal
almost when you're looking onthis podcast that wanna, you
know,'cause I, I, it's like,it's like we still call Dom
(02:29):
coach, right?
He'll always be my coach.
And so, like, you know, I'm sureat some level Scott's always
your player and now he's one ofyour competitors.
Dave (02:38):
It's really cool.
And just listening to Scott justa minute ago, talk and, you
know, he, he's, he's.
Far more advanced as a coachthan I was at that age.
And it's cool to see how smartthese young guys are.
And, uh, we, we've had theopportunity over the years and,
and unfortunately not, notenough, but we'd sit down and
we'd x and o and go over things.
(02:59):
And, I learned a ton from Scottevery time I listened to him and
talk to'em.
And I've been very fortunate tohave a, a, a, a really fun,
exciting, successful coachingtree.
And it's neat to see players andformer assistants go on and do
some great things.
And, um, I, I think the games ina really good place with these
(03:21):
young coaches.
They're, they're doing some,some awesome things and taking,
taking care of their young menand teaching them a lot.
That's cool.
That's great.
All right.
Ron Dawg (03:30):
So guys, now it's time for, uh, our speed round.
Okay.
And Jay and I have a series ofquestions that are about
continuing to help our listenerslearn more about the lacrosse
process.
But unlike my style, um, we're,we're trying to keep this short
and succinct.
Okay?
Right?
We're trying to give'em the,just, just the facts, ma'am,
here, it's interesting, Jay,that you have him run this
(03:52):
segment, right?
You know?
Well, I'm gotta jump in too.
Uh, yes, Jay, we'll, we'll allowJay to participate in this
segment as well, but I willbegin.
Okay, go around.
So, Dave, we'll start with youand then Scott, you answer this
one.
Secondly, at what stage in ahigh school career should a
student athlete be reaching outto you to express interest and
(04:14):
how should they reach out?
And what do you wanna know whenyou're just getting, when a
kid's just getting started inthe process?
We're hearing now from, from,uh, young guys who've just
finished their 10th grade and,and so they're sending us kind
of some films, some basicacademic information and
expressing kind of that they'rebeginning this process and we're
(04:37):
one of the schools they'reinterested in.
And, and we're, we're not doinga ton with that right now as
we're wrapping up the, the otherclasses, but I would say that's
an appropriate age to, fordivision three to first reach
out.
Scott, I.
Scott (04:51):
Yeah, I would second that.
It's, it's very similar for us.
Um, uh, you know, I'll add thatI, I love the I M L C A, uh,
sports recruit, um mm-hmm.
You know, website that, thatthese young men can have
profiles on.
And, and those are tremendouslyhelpful.
'cause they, they tell you wherehe is playing, you know, they
post their film up there, youknow, they've got their, their
high school and their clubinformation, you know, they've
(05:13):
got their academics.
That's really the foundation.
You know, we, we need to know ifthey fit the academic buffet
bucket, do they fit, uh, fit inthe, uh, in the athletic bucket.
And, and then those are the twothings that are gonna lead to
ultimately then us, you know,talking to'em at another lever
and figure it out if they'rereally a fit for our programs.
Ron (05:29):
How about any mistakes that kids make in that initial
outreach?
Dave (05:34):
Yeah, we all get, you know, the mass emails that they
send to, the 50 colleges andthat's fine, but when they,
when.
Put one to me that's addressedto a different coach at a
different college.
Just some, some of the attentionto details.
Important.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That might not go over so well,coaching the initial outreach,
but really connecting with that.
(05:55):
I don't, yeah.
Scott (05:55):
I don't love when I get emails from a young man saying
I'm really interested in r i tas opposed to r p I, that, that
doesn't exactly sit very wellwith me.
Dave (06:05):
It also concerns us when we, when we hear from the
parents initially, um, I, Ithink that communication should
be led by the, the, the youngguys.
The parents certainly have arole.
Um, and, and, but it shouldn'tbe initially,
Scott (06:21):
A hundred percent.
Uh, I, I couldn't agree withthat more.
Um, I'm, I'm always very justconfused when a parent makes the
initial outreach, um, you know,the, this is that young man's
process.
Yeah.
We're, we're gonna recruit thefamily.
Dave (06:36):
Right.
And, and the parent shouldabsolutely be involved, but, uh,
it should be the young mantaking the lead.
Mm-hmm.
Now would, let's say highlighttape game tape, game tape,
neither or both.
And then what do you want andwhat do you look for?
And then we could start withCoach Dave first with that.
Should that be in that initialemail, uh, exchange?
(06:58):
Sure.
And, and again, the, the youngguys are probably just getting
some, some tape for the firsttime.
So if they don't, it doesn'texclude them from the process.
I, I don't have time to watchgame tape and try to find them.
So the highlights are, arehelpful and we know what we're
looking at highlights, so we, weget that.
Uh, but just a couple minutequick clip, just again, so we
(07:20):
can just see kind of theathlete, the skillset, knowing
that they're in 10th grade andit's gonna change a lot, but we
want to have a, a, a foundationto, to work with.
I.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, a ab absolutely.
And, uh, highlights all the way,again, it, it doesn't preclude
you from the process, uh, but itis certainly helpful the more
times and the more settings, youknow, we, we can evaluate, um,
(07:43):
you know, the, the clearer thepicture becomes.
Right?
Um, and, and I think reallyimportant for, you know, your
listeners, that we don't needthe slow-mo, we don't need the
flashy, you know, uh, you know,graphics and like that stuff
does not matter.
Um, you know, it's, it's yourplay, right?
Um, so save yourself the money.
(08:05):
Um, and, and, uh, just, justkeep it simple.
Put your best players at thefront, uh, put a variety in
there and, uh, that that'll giveus a great foundation to, to
kick things off with.
And, and, and that's a littlething, but I'll, I'll tell you
just recently we've gotten somefilm with.
Music and, and reallyquestionable lyrics with the
music.
Mm-hmm.
And, and it seems like a littlething, but I wrote back to both
(08:28):
of those young men and justsuggested to them that they
should think through that.
'cause some could be offendedand just kind of question some
things.
So again, attention to detailand, and putting your best foot
forward matters.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Ron (08:44):
So, Scott, how about if you take this one, uh, role of club
and high school coach in theprocess and how kids should be
encouraging those folks to reachout?
Scott (08:54):
Yeah, definitely important.
Um, you know, uh, a lot of thesehigh school and club coaches
have been around for a while.
They've got a lot ofrelationships with college
coaches and, and experience withthe different institutions.
Um, and, and they know thoseyoung men, and so they can be
great on a recommendation sideof things for, for us as college
coaches, sort of on the frontend.
(09:15):
Um, and, and they can be greaton the back end.
Um, you know, I'm, I'm alwayssurprised that, uh, I talked to
a high school coach, um, youknow, a few days ago just
getting ready to offer a youngman and, and so, uh, reached out
and, you know, I just said,coach, I really appreciate you
calling.
There's, there's so many guysthat don't call and, and ask our
(09:36):
opinion, uh, as a high schoolcoach.
And, and that always justbaffles me because those are the
guys that, that spend.
A lot of time with him.
And in this instance it was a,you know, a boarding school.
So this coach sees him in allkinds of setting, right?
He, he knows how he, that youngman conducts himself on a, on a
daily basis.
And for me, I, you know, Ialways think we're, we're gonna
spend a lot of time together infour years.
(09:58):
Mm-hmm.
Um, I, I wanna make sure that,uh, I can do all the homework I
possibly can, uh, to make surethat that young man is a right
fit and that there's no, noquestion marks.
Um, so, uh, yeah, they're,they're definitely a, a a piece
of the puzzle, in this processfor sure.
Dave (10:15):
I would add, real quickly, my brother's a long time high
school coach at Pingry School inNew Jersey.
Real successful program.
Oh, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
And he's always amazed by howfew college coaches connect with
him.
Oh, wow.
And just go to the club coachesand, and my brother Michael is
with these young men in theclassroom, in the hallways and
over four years and really knowsthem and their character.
(10:38):
And, and that's certainlyimportant to us coaches when we
make that investment.
Jay (10:42):
Right?
Absolutely.
Now, what is the biggest wayparents can help and hurt their
child in the recruiting process?
Scott, what do you say?
Scott (10:55):
Help is empower them.
Empower them in the process.
Guide'em, help'em, assist them,but empower them to take
ownership of their own process.
I was on a Zoom call recently,and I could see that the parents
were trying to empower'em.
I said, Hey, look,, I reallyappreciate that you're trying to
do that.
Um, but it's also an opportunityfor you to, ask questions.
You know, parents haveexperience, right?
(11:16):
And they have knowledge that,young men can't have.
And so, I think asking questionsis a great way to be helpful in
the process.
And, and then I think just as wementioned before, just, you
know, don't be the lead out ofthe gate, um, as a parent, that
that can definitely hurt.
Dave (11:33):
Yeah, my daughter,, was a division one soccer recruit, and
so we went through this processon a different perspective for
me now as the parent just acouple years ago.
And, and so I, I learned a lotthrough that and very
interesting.
And of course my daughterdidn't,, think I had anything to
add to this whole experience.
Ron (11:50):
No.
You, you don't know anythingabout the process coach.
Nothing.
No,
Dave (11:54):
but I think you take, just as Scott suggested, you're kind
of guiding and you're helping,but kind of in a silent way and
allowing things.
And where, where we really getinvolved as parents is at, you
know, at the kitchen table afterthe visit and before the phone
calls and just helping thatalong.
It's concerning to coaches whenthe parents are too involved
(12:15):
because you naturally think whatit's gonna be like when they're
here with you.
And if that parent's tooinvolved in their recruiting.
Is that gonna be therelationship during that, those
four years?
Mm-hmm.
All right.
Ron (12:27):
So guys, I know one thing that's often vexing for players
is, uh, you know, recruits is Idon't really know where I stand.
And so give us, the right kindof question to ask a coach that
has them tell you where youstand at a point in the process.
Webby.
Dave (12:45):
Yeah.
So we try to be, as I suggested,real transparent upfront and we
talk about kind of our goals forthe class and the number of guys
and by position and et cetera.
Ron (12:54):
We, we try to let the young man know where they are in that
mix and that's gonna change andbe very dynamic throughout the
process.
And, and we ask the same of themto be, you know, transparent
with us.
But, but the simple questionwe're getting a lot of that
right now is coach where, where,where do I stand?
Are you still recruiting me?
Um, uh, for, for certainpositions, fog's, goalies, where
(13:15):
we tend to bring in one for, fora class, uh, they certainly want
to know where they are.
And, and at times we, we don't,we, you know, as it's going
through earlier in the summer,we, we've got a mix of players
for those spots and then westart to develop kind of a more
of an order to it, and we canshare that as we go through.
But asking questions, being realdirect with coaches, being real
(13:38):
proactive with that iscertainly, encouraged and
helpful.
Scott (13:44):
Yeah, that's it.
A hundred percent.
You know, what coach, what doyou see as my role and where do
I stand?
And if you're not really sure,as, you know, WEBY mentioned, I
mean, it's all, it's so dynamicand it changes, you know, it can
say changing an instant, right.
Young man makes a decision oneway or the other.
So yeah, what's my role?
Where do I stand?
And if you don't know where Istand right now, when will you,
right.
Just be direct and I operate, weoperate the same way as we try
(14:06):
to be as transparent as possiblein the process.
Mm-hmm.
Ron (14:09):
I also hear in that guys that I think, you know, people
don't appreciate that it's aprocess for you guys too.
And sometimes I, I find kidsoverreacting early in the
process to a sense, like, thecoach won't tell me while I'm
like, The coach may not knowyet.
Like you gotta stay in the mix.
They're talking to a lot ofkids.
Scott (14:26):
Keep fighting, keep scrapping, keep playing.
So I think you know it, it worksboth ways, right?
So, so telling the kids to staywith the process until the coach
says, nah, uh, you know, I'msorry, we got someone we like
better than you.
Absolutely.
Yep.
Okay.
And now what is the generaltimeline of the recruiting
process in D three and for youguys at Dickinson and R P I in
(14:49):
terms of when you're getting thestudent athletes to come and
visit the campus, and then whenyou're making offers and seeking
those commitments?
Yeah.
Uh, from, from our perspective,uh, with the Division one rules
changing a, a couple of yearsago, um, and, and not being able
to visit until the fall of yourjunior year, we're, we're pretty
(15:11):
well on that same timeline, um,you know, uh, a little later
than the division one, but thereare certainly some that, that we
start going after aggressivelyin the fall and, and, you know,
in some instances begin to makeoffers.
So, it's not too dissimilar atthe end of the day.
You know, most of it happenscoming out of that junior year
(15:32):
into the junior year this summerright now, as they're
transitioning from their junioryear into their senior year.
But, we're not far off fromthose division one, guys at that
level.
Mm-hmm.
Dave (15:42):
I would agree.
it's right now, the end of July,early August is a real busy time
for us in terms of thosedecisions and commitments coming
together.
And in many cases it's been as aresult of the last few months,
from fall visits through, springvisits and certainly now, the
recruiting summer exposure part.
But we will finish our class,soon and it's all for us early
(16:07):
decision commitments.
And that's what you have indivision three.
There's nothing in writing.
It's, verbal agreements and acommitment.
And we expect those to behonored.
And, again, that's part of thattransparency and, trust you
develop in the recruitingprocess.
Jay (16:23):
Mm-hmm.
And then do you still though attimes have seniors in high
school visiting?
Like if a class isn't filledout, or are you still looking at
players in their senior year ofhigh school?
We try to keep
Dave (16:35):
a couple spots.
There's always we feel a coupledifference makers who maybe
were, were set on division oneand things didn't quite happen,
so they kind of come back to youat this point or early in the
fall.
And, and we found some reallygood players, uh, later.
So we, we try to make surethere's an opportunity for
somebody like that.
(16:55):
Mm-hmm.
Scott (16:56):
Yeah.
There's always room for aprogram changer, right?
If Paul Rabel shows up at yourdoor, you're gonna find a way
to, get him on your team, right?
So, yeah, I couldn't agree more.
And it, you know, I think that'sthe other challenging thing for,
you know, for young men andrecruits and young ladies and
their families, is that ithappens in so many different
ways, on so many differenttimelines, right?
Everybody's got a differentjourney.
(17:17):
Everybody's got a differentpath.
And you just have to be patientin the process and.
Keep making yourself better.
That's what's gonna, that'swhat's gonna get you recruited.
Right?
It'd be a great person, be greatin the classroom and, and keep
getting better on the field.
Jay (17:31):
Nice.
We've got our roving reporteravailable, Mrs.
Alfi, is that right?
Yeah.
Ron (17:38):
He finishes with a little different twist on the
questions.
Scott May be anticipating thisWeby having known, Mr.
Gfi, but you're in for a treathere.
I think.
Steve (17:47):
Yeah.
They in my segments, they haveme prepare questions that don't
have anything to do withlacrosse, primarily due to the
fact that I don't really knowanything about lacrosse.
Jay (17:58):
You did play lacrosse at Brown?
Yes, he did.
I did.
Steve (18:01):
I actually, I scored a goal against Dartmouth.
You guys would be impressed withthat.
Yeah.
That is part of our intro.
Yep.
Um, I wanna give you guys, anopportunity to highlight the
schools you coach.
So,, this first one goes toCoach Scott.
The Walt House and Reactorcritical facility is an
on-campus nuclear reactor at R PI, how far away do you keep your
(18:23):
lacrosse players from thisfacility?
And, what are some other thingsabout R P I that you would want
some potential recruits who arelistening to this podcast to
know?
Scott (18:32):
Steve, first off, that is,, impressive, research, I
must say, I always joke that,,nuclear is like the one engineer
major that we don't haverepresented on the team.
I think those guys are anotherlevel of genius and smart, for
sure.
And I'm glad that we don't haveany play around with nuclear
reactors and so on and so forth.
But yeah, r p i's a uniqueinstitution.
(18:53):
You know, we're the oldest andtherefore the first
technological institute in thecountry.
Data technology in the businessworld, in our lolly school of
management, in our engineeringmajors.
We've got crazy super computerson campus and just, it's wild
the things that our young men doon campus and what they go to
do, beyond our doors.
And, I understand why they spenda lot of time on it.
(19:13):
'cause it's pretty cool stuff atthe end of the day.
Jay (19:15):
So, so no beer pond near that facility?
Ron (19:18):
Well, I was gonna say is in quotes, crazy supercomputer?
Is that a technical term?
Is that how they de is that howthey describe it there?
Is it just that, that crazysupercomputer department.
Scott (19:32):
I'll just let that one sit out there.
Okay.
Alright.
All right.
Steve (19:35):
Now this next one's, for Coach Dave.
And I give you a lot of creditfor not slipping this in, at
some point in the previousinterview.
But, there was a US presidentwho attended Dickinson, which US
president was that.
And also tell us some otherstuff about Dickinson that you
would like, potential recruitswho may be listening to know
Dave (19:53):
the president was James Buchanan.
Steve (19:56):
Oh, nice.
That's correct.
Well done.
Dave (19:58):
My history major at Dickinson, I got him know that
we were founded, in 1783 whenthe Revolutionary War ends and
we become a new nation.
So we are the first college inthe New Nation.
Wow.
A lot of history here.
George Washington,, gatheredtroops on our campus to, go out
to the Whiskey Rebellion, whichis west of here towards
(20:19):
Pittsburgh, Confederate troops,,as they were starting to
encircle Gettysburg gathered onour campus, Jeb Stewart and the
Calvary were coming throughtown.
so a neat college town with alot of history.
Steve (20:35):
Cool.
Very cool.
All right.
Uh, this next one's for Scottand, it primarily goes to what
was the most annoying thingabout having Ron as an older
brother growing up?
Jay (20:44):
The most.
Wow, that's gonna be tough.
How about several?
Ron Dawg (20:48):
Yeah, it's gotta be a long, a long list.
Here, I'll sit back, we'll setthe timer.
Steve (20:54):
We're actually looking for something specific and there
is a correct answer.
Scott (20:58):
Oh, wow.
Now that, now the pressure's on.
I, I didn't really think it wasa pressure cooker question at
first, but,, well,
Jay (21:06):
no second helpings available.
No seconds at dinner, Don, atthe mall.
Sorry.
Scott (21:12):
Yeah.
You know, he's a very largefigure, in many ways.
And so, yeah, it was,challenging to get to the table
and get food sometimes.
Um, you know, uh, it waschallenging to get, get shotgun,
uh, in the car.
Um, even if you had called itfirst, um, you know, there
might've been some quote unquotebullying.
Uh, you know, in some instances,um, I might've been a goalie for
(21:32):
part of my career because, youknow, you just wanted somebody
to shoot on.
Um, so, uh, yeah, gotta get, yougotta get better.
Coach Webbs.
You need somebody in the goal.
You want live shooting, right?
Live shooting.
Uh, no.
Jay (21:43):
Look, every defenseman needs that.
Scott (21:45):
I'm really fortunate to have Ron as my older brother,
and,, was fortunate to be hisbest man as a little punk
somehow.
I certainly, you know, knew howto probably push his buttons a
little bit.
And was very grateful that, thathe was my best man at my
wedding.
And so,, you know,, although we,certainly went at each other,
you know, like to think we madeeach other better and
fortunately for our relationshipfor sure,,
Steve (22:05):
those are all excellent answers, but the correct answer
was the volume.
Ron.
Ron's actually on mute rightnow, and I still have to turn my
computer down.
Jay (22:16):
Yeah.
I sky coming at you in so manyways.
Ron (22:19):
I mean, WEBY, they, they pretty much go to the, the fat
guy jokes and he is loud.
I mean, these are two thingsI've heard a lot.
Well, how about not over thepast four decades, not honoring
a shotgun call.
Wow, that's big.
Get keys my little brother.
Get You're not sitting in thefront seat.
Whatcha jumping?
What?
I knew you.
I don't care why?
I don't care why you called.
Come on please, please.
Jay (22:41):
That's dog for you right there.
All, the listeners are gettingit today.
Steve (22:46):
This last one's,, for Coach Dave.
Now that the statute oflimitations has probably
expired, what was the funniestthing that you ever had to call
either Scott or another playerinto your, into your office, to
discuss with him?
Ron (23:00):
Wow.
Yeah, coach, let's hear a littlesomething.
You know, it's, I mean, it's away, I mean, there's nothing
that could happen.
Now, let's just on, let's talkHonestly, what was happening
with Scott
Scott (23:11):
I was, I was a saint.
Dave (23:12):
I would just say that Scott's experience as an
undergrad,, I'm sure, has madehim a better coach now because
he went through some ups anddowns.
Ron (23:24):
I see.
He learned what not to do,coach.
Dave (23:27):
Well, there was certainly some of that.
But Scott mentioned early onthat one of the joys of coaching
is working with young men whocome in and you're like, wow,
I'm not sure he is gonna makeit.
Scott (23:38):
Are are you saying that was your thought about men?
Jay (23:41):
It comes to mind, huh?
Dave (23:42):
I'm saying there, you grew up a lot and that was very fair
and you learned the time and,and that's given you great
perspective to be a great coachand mentor now.
Ron Dawg (23:55):
Wow, that, that is the answer of a veteran right there.
Just skirting right through thefine line.
Very well done.
Excellent.
Well,, guys, this, this was justa ton of fun and,, we, we know
it is a really busy time for youguys.
As you mentioned, this is a timewhere you're really getting to
the end of the recruiting andtrying to finish up your
classes, so we appreciate youspending some time with us.
(24:15):
It's been a lot of fun.
Jay (24:17):
Thanks so much.
Really appreciate it.
Scott (24:19):
Yeah, can't, can't thank you all enough and, you know,
can't thank weby enough.
I'm,, not who I'm today, as acoach, as a person if it wasn't
for him, for sure.
Dave (24:27):
Thank you.
Appreciate it guys.
Fun.
Ron Dawg (24:30):
Yeah.
Alright guys.
Thank you.
Thanks for another great episodeof Get the Luck Scoop check.
Hey, it was wonderful.
Scott (24:37):
until we meet again, here to, hoping you find the twine.
We're signing off here at theGet the LAX coop.
Thanks again so much.
We will see you the next time.
It's time for get the La Scoop, a podcast bringing you
all the people and stuff youshould know.
In the game of lacrosse, we takeLAX seriously, but ourselves,
not so much.
Join hosts, big Dog and Jaybird,and the biggest names in the
game.
Brought to you by Jay McMahonlacrosse.
That's J M L Skills, mindset,and LAX IQ training.
(00:23):
Ron Doish, the big dog, was acollegiate football and lacrosse
player at Brown.
He was also an assistantlacrosse coach and the executive
director of the sports found.
and Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, athree time All-American
Midfielder Brown.
He was a captain of the USJunior National team and is the
founder of J M L.
And joining us in the studio,Steve gfi, who's collegiate
(00:46):
lacrosse career statisticsequals one goal against
Dartmouth.
Ron (00:53):
This podcast is brought to you by j McMahon Lacrosse.
Now that's a mouthful, so let'sgo with j m l lacrosse
Jay (01:00):
skills.
Oh, Ron.
J m l has lacrosse in there, sojust
Ron (01:05):
jml friends get used to.
Jay interrupting me all thetime.
it's maddening.
Fine, Jay, it's Jml skills.
Mindset and LAX IQ training,helping the next generation
cross players.
Get to the next level.
So everyone, we're reallyexcited to bring you the next
episode of Get the Lack Scoop.
(01:25):
We've got two great divisionthree head coaches, with us
today.
And that we do, you will findour third and final installment
of our series with coaches, DaveWebster of Dickinson and Scott
Hackett.
from RPI in progress.
Enjoy.
Ron Dawg (01:46):
Weby, I'm gonna go off script again.
Just continue to drive Jaycrazy.
Um, I, I'm just wondering, like,you know, I like to respect our
guest time.
Well, you know, I, I know.
Unlike yourself, I think they'reen enjoy.
I think, look it, they'resmiling, they're enjoying
themselves, Jay.
They're loving this.
I hope so.
But, you know, WEBY getting a,again, back to the relationship.
What's, what's it like, youknow, here you are as a, as a
(02:08):
career coach who came from a dadwho was a coach and an educator,
and now you've got this youngpup who was part of one of your
early classes, who's become ahead coach at the division three
level.
It's gotta be like, you know,it's gotta be a little surreal
almost when you're looking onthis podcast that wanna, you
know,'cause I, I, it's like,it's like we still call Dom
(02:29):
coach, right?
He'll always be my coach.
And so, like, you know, I'm sureat some level Scott's always
your player and now he's one ofyour competitors.
Dave (02:38):
It's really cool.
And just listening to Scott justa minute ago, talk and, you
know, he, he's, he's.
Far more advanced as a coachthan I was at that age.
And it's cool to see how smartthese young guys are.
And, uh, we, we've had theopportunity over the years and,
and unfortunately not, notenough, but we'd sit down and
we'd x and o and go over things.
(02:59):
And, I learned a ton from Scottevery time I listened to him and
talk to'em.
And I've been very fortunate tohave a, a, a, a really fun,
exciting, successful coachingtree.
And it's neat to see players andformer assistants go on and do
some great things.
And, um, I, I think the games ina really good place with these
(03:21):
young coaches.
They're, they're doing some,some awesome things and taking,
taking care of their young menand teaching them a lot.
That's cool.
That's great.
All right.
Ron Dawg (03:30):
So guys, now it's time for, uh, our speed round.
Okay.
And Jay and I have a series ofquestions that are about
continuing to help our listenerslearn more about the lacrosse
process.
But unlike my style, um, we're,we're trying to keep this short
and succinct.
Okay?
Right?
We're trying to give'em the,just, just the facts, ma'am,
here, it's interesting, Jay,that you have him run this
(03:52):
segment, right?
You know?
Well, I'm gotta jump in too.
Uh, yes, Jay, we'll, we'll allowJay to participate in this
segment as well, but I willbegin.
Okay, go around.
So, Dave, we'll start with youand then Scott, you answer this
one.
Secondly, at what stage in ahigh school career should a
student athlete be reaching outto you to express interest and
(04:14):
how should they reach out?
And what do you wanna know whenyou're just getting, when a
kid's just getting started inthe process?
We're hearing now from, from,uh, young guys who've just
finished their 10th grade and,and so they're sending us kind
of some films, some basicacademic information and
expressing kind of that they'rebeginning this process and we're
(04:37):
one of the schools they'reinterested in.
And, and we're, we're not doinga ton with that right now as
we're wrapping up the, the otherclasses, but I would say that's
an appropriate age to, fordivision three to first reach
out.
Scott, I.
Scott (04:51):
Yeah, I would second that.
It's, it's very similar for us.
Um, uh, you know, I'll add thatI, I love the I M L C A, uh,
sports recruit, um mm-hmm.
You know, website that, thatthese young men can have
profiles on.
And, and those are tremendouslyhelpful.
'cause they, they tell you wherehe is playing, you know, they
post their film up there, youknow, they've got their, their
high school and their clubinformation, you know, they've
(05:13):
got their academics.
That's really the foundation.
You know, we, we need to know ifthey fit the academic buffet
bucket, do they fit, uh, fit inthe, uh, in the athletic bucket.
And, and then those are the twothings that are gonna lead to
ultimately then us, you know,talking to'em at another lever
and figure it out if they'rereally a fit for our programs.
Ron (05:29):
How about any mistakes that kids make in that initial
outreach?
Dave (05:34):
Yeah, we all get, you know, the mass emails that they
send to, the 50 colleges andthat's fine, but when they,
when.
Put one to me that's addressedto a different coach at a
different college.
Just some, some of the attentionto details.
Important.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That might not go over so well,coaching the initial outreach,
but really connecting with that.
(05:55):
I don't, yeah.
Scott (05:55):
I don't love when I get emails from a young man saying
I'm really interested in r i tas opposed to r p I, that, that
doesn't exactly sit very wellwith me.
Dave (06:05):
It also concerns us when we, when we hear from the
parents initially, um, I, Ithink that communication should
be led by the, the, the youngguys.
The parents certainly have arole.
Um, and, and, but it shouldn'tbe initially,
Scott (06:21):
A hundred percent.
Uh, I, I couldn't agree withthat more.
Um, I'm, I'm always very justconfused when a parent makes the
initial outreach, um, you know,the, this is that young man's
process.
Yeah.
We're, we're gonna recruit thefamily.
Dave (06:36):
Right.
And, and the parent shouldabsolutely be involved, but, uh,
it should be the young mantaking the lead.
Mm-hmm.
Now would, let's say highlighttape game tape, game tape,
neither or both.
And then what do you want andwhat do you look for?
And then we could start withCoach Dave first with that.
Should that be in that initialemail, uh, exchange?
(06:58):
Sure.
And, and again, the, the youngguys are probably just getting
some, some tape for the firsttime.
So if they don't, it doesn'texclude them from the process.
I, I don't have time to watchgame tape and try to find them.
So the highlights are, arehelpful and we know what we're
looking at highlights, so we, weget that.
Uh, but just a couple minutequick clip, just again, so we
(07:20):
can just see kind of theathlete, the skillset, knowing
that they're in 10th grade andit's gonna change a lot, but we
want to have a, a, a foundationto, to work with.
I.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, a ab absolutely.
And, uh, highlights all the way,again, it, it doesn't preclude
you from the process, uh, but itis certainly helpful the more
times and the more settings, youknow, we, we can evaluate, um,
(07:43):
you know, the, the clearer thepicture becomes.
Right?
Um, and, and I think reallyimportant for, you know, your
listeners, that we don't needthe slow-mo, we don't need the
flashy, you know, uh, you know,graphics and like that stuff
does not matter.
Um, you know, it's, it's yourplay, right?
Um, so save yourself the money.
(08:05):
Um, and, and, uh, just, justkeep it simple.
Put your best players at thefront, uh, put a variety in
there and, uh, that that'll giveus a great foundation to, to
kick things off with.
And, and, and that's a littlething, but I'll, I'll tell you
just recently we've gotten somefilm with.
Music and, and reallyquestionable lyrics with the
music.
Mm-hmm.
And, and it seems like a littlething, but I wrote back to both
(08:28):
of those young men and justsuggested to them that they
should think through that.
'cause some could be offendedand just kind of question some
things.
So again, attention to detailand, and putting your best foot
forward matters.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Ron (08:44):
So, Scott, how about if you take this one, uh, role of club
and high school coach in theprocess and how kids should be
encouraging those folks to reachout?
Scott (08:54):
Yeah, definitely important.
Um, you know, uh, a lot of thesehigh school and club coaches
have been around for a while.
They've got a lot ofrelationships with college
coaches and, and experience withthe different institutions.
Um, and, and they know thoseyoung men, and so they can be
great on a recommendation sideof things for, for us as college
coaches, sort of on the frontend.
(09:15):
Um, and, and they can be greaton the back end.
Um, you know, I'm, I'm alwayssurprised that, uh, I talked to
a high school coach, um, youknow, a few days ago just
getting ready to offer a youngman and, and so, uh, reached out
and, you know, I just said,coach, I really appreciate you
calling.
There's, there's so many guysthat don't call and, and ask our
(09:36):
opinion, uh, as a high schoolcoach.
And, and that always justbaffles me because those are the
guys that, that spend.
A lot of time with him.
And in this instance it was a,you know, a boarding school.
So this coach sees him in allkinds of setting, right?
He, he knows how he, that youngman conducts himself on a, on a
daily basis.
And for me, I, you know, Ialways think we're, we're gonna
spend a lot of time together infour years.
(09:58):
Mm-hmm.
Um, I, I wanna make sure that,uh, I can do all the homework I
possibly can, uh, to make surethat that young man is a right
fit and that there's no, noquestion marks.
Um, so, uh, yeah, they're,they're definitely a, a a piece
of the puzzle, in this processfor sure.
Dave (10:15):
I would add, real quickly, my brother's a long time high
school coach at Pingry School inNew Jersey.
Real successful program.
Oh, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
And he's always amazed by howfew college coaches connect with
him.
Oh, wow.
And just go to the club coachesand, and my brother Michael is
with these young men in theclassroom, in the hallways and
over four years and really knowsthem and their character.
(10:38):
And, and that's certainlyimportant to us coaches when we
make that investment.
Jay (10:42):
Right?
Absolutely.
Now, what is the biggest wayparents can help and hurt their
child in the recruiting process?
Scott, what do you say?
Scott (10:55):
Help is empower them.
Empower them in the process.
Guide'em, help'em, assist them,but empower them to take
ownership of their own process.
I was on a Zoom call recently,and I could see that the parents
were trying to empower'em.
I said, Hey, look,, I reallyappreciate that you're trying to
do that.
Um, but it's also an opportunityfor you to, ask questions.
You know, parents haveexperience, right?
(11:16):
And they have knowledge that,young men can't have.
And so, I think asking questionsis a great way to be helpful in
the process.
And, and then I think just as wementioned before, just, you
know, don't be the lead out ofthe gate, um, as a parent, that
that can definitely hurt.
Dave (11:33):
Yeah, my daughter,, was a division one soccer recruit, and
so we went through this processon a different perspective for
me now as the parent just acouple years ago.
And, and so I, I learned a lotthrough that and very
interesting.
And of course my daughterdidn't,, think I had anything to
add to this whole experience.
Ron (11:50):
No.
You, you don't know anythingabout the process coach.
Nothing.
No,
Dave (11:54):
but I think you take, just as Scott suggested, you're kind
of guiding and you're helping,but kind of in a silent way and
allowing things.
And where, where we really getinvolved as parents is at, you
know, at the kitchen table afterthe visit and before the phone
calls and just helping thatalong.
It's concerning to coaches whenthe parents are too involved
(12:15):
because you naturally think whatit's gonna be like when they're
here with you.
And if that parent's tooinvolved in their recruiting.
Is that gonna be therelationship during that, those
four years?
Mm-hmm.
All right.
Ron (12:27):
So guys, I know one thing that's often vexing for players
is, uh, you know, recruits is Idon't really know where I stand.
And so give us, the right kindof question to ask a coach that
has them tell you where youstand at a point in the process.
Webby.
Dave (12:45):
Yeah.
So we try to be, as I suggested,real transparent upfront and we
talk about kind of our goals forthe class and the number of guys
and by position and et cetera.
Ron (12:54):
We, we try to let the young man know where they are in that
mix and that's gonna change andbe very dynamic throughout the
process.
And, and we ask the same of themto be, you know, transparent
with us.
But, but the simple questionwe're getting a lot of that
right now is coach where, where,where do I stand?
Are you still recruiting me?
Um, uh, for, for certainpositions, fog's, goalies, where
(13:15):
we tend to bring in one for, fora class, uh, they certainly want
to know where they are.
And, and at times we, we don't,we, you know, as it's going
through earlier in the summer,we, we've got a mix of players
for those spots and then westart to develop kind of a more
of an order to it, and we canshare that as we go through.
But asking questions, being realdirect with coaches, being real
(13:38):
proactive with that iscertainly, encouraged and
helpful.
Scott (13:44):
Yeah, that's it.
A hundred percent.
You know, what coach, what doyou see as my role and where do
I stand?
And if you're not really sure,as, you know, WEBY mentioned, I
mean, it's all, it's so dynamicand it changes, you know, it can
say changing an instant, right.
Young man makes a decision oneway or the other.
So yeah, what's my role?
Where do I stand?
And if you don't know where Istand right now, when will you,
right.
Just be direct and I operate, weoperate the same way as we try
(14:06):
to be as transparent as possiblein the process.
Mm-hmm.
Ron (14:09):
I also hear in that guys that I think, you know, people
don't appreciate that it's aprocess for you guys too.
And sometimes I, I find kidsoverreacting early in the
process to a sense, like, thecoach won't tell me while I'm
like, The coach may not knowyet.
Like you gotta stay in the mix.
They're talking to a lot ofkids.
Scott (14:26):
Keep fighting, keep scrapping, keep playing.
So I think you know it, it worksboth ways, right?
So, so telling the kids to staywith the process until the coach
says, nah, uh, you know, I'msorry, we got someone we like
better than you.
Absolutely.
Yep.
Okay.
And now what is the generaltimeline of the recruiting
process in D three and for youguys at Dickinson and R P I in
(14:49):
terms of when you're getting thestudent athletes to come and
visit the campus, and then whenyou're making offers and seeking
those commitments?
Yeah.
Uh, from, from our perspective,uh, with the Division one rules
changing a, a couple of yearsago, um, and, and not being able
to visit until the fall of yourjunior year, we're, we're pretty
(15:11):
well on that same timeline, um,you know, uh, a little later
than the division one, but thereare certainly some that, that we
start going after aggressivelyin the fall and, and, you know,
in some instances begin to makeoffers.
So, it's not too dissimilar atthe end of the day.
You know, most of it happenscoming out of that junior year
(15:32):
into the junior year this summerright now, as they're
transitioning from their junioryear into their senior year.
But, we're not far off fromthose division one, guys at that
level.
Mm-hmm.
Dave (15:42):
I would agree.
it's right now, the end of July,early August is a real busy time
for us in terms of thosedecisions and commitments coming
together.
And in many cases it's been as aresult of the last few months,
from fall visits through, springvisits and certainly now, the
recruiting summer exposure part.
But we will finish our class,soon and it's all for us early
(16:07):
decision commitments.
And that's what you have indivision three.
There's nothing in writing.
It's, verbal agreements and acommitment.
And we expect those to behonored.
And, again, that's part of thattransparency and, trust you
develop in the recruitingprocess.
Jay (16:23):
Mm-hmm.
And then do you still though attimes have seniors in high
school visiting?
Like if a class isn't filledout, or are you still looking at
players in their senior year ofhigh school?
We try to keep
Dave (16:35):
a couple spots.
There's always we feel a coupledifference makers who maybe
were, were set on division oneand things didn't quite happen,
so they kind of come back to youat this point or early in the
fall.
And, and we found some reallygood players, uh, later.
So we, we try to make surethere's an opportunity for
somebody like that.
(16:55):
Mm-hmm.
Scott (16:56):
Yeah.
There's always room for aprogram changer, right?
If Paul Rabel shows up at yourdoor, you're gonna find a way
to, get him on your team, right?
So, yeah, I couldn't agree more.
And it, you know, I think that'sthe other challenging thing for,
you know, for young men andrecruits and young ladies and
their families, is that ithappens in so many different
ways, on so many differenttimelines, right?
Everybody's got a differentjourney.
(17:17):
Everybody's got a differentpath.
And you just have to be patientin the process and.
Keep making yourself better.
That's what's gonna, that'swhat's gonna get you recruited.
Right?
It'd be a great person, be greatin the classroom and, and keep
getting better on the field.
Jay (17:31):
Nice.
We've got our roving reporteravailable, Mrs.
Alfi, is that right?
Yeah.
Ron (17:38):
He finishes with a little different twist on the
questions.
Scott May be anticipating thisWeby having known, Mr.
Gfi, but you're in for a treathere.
I think.
Steve (17:47):
Yeah.
They in my segments, they haveme prepare questions that don't
have anything to do withlacrosse, primarily due to the
fact that I don't really knowanything about lacrosse.
Jay (17:58):
You did play lacrosse at Brown?
Yes, he did.
I did.
Steve (18:01):
I actually, I scored a goal against Dartmouth.
You guys would be impressed withthat.
Yeah.
That is part of our intro.
Yep.
Um, I wanna give you guys, anopportunity to highlight the
schools you coach.
So,, this first one goes toCoach Scott.
The Walt House and Reactorcritical facility is an
on-campus nuclear reactor at R PI, how far away do you keep your
(18:23):
lacrosse players from thisfacility?
And, what are some other thingsabout R P I that you would want
some potential recruits who arelistening to this podcast to
know?
Scott (18:32):
Steve, first off, that is,, impressive, research, I
must say, I always joke that,,nuclear is like the one engineer
major that we don't haverepresented on the team.
I think those guys are anotherlevel of genius and smart, for
sure.
And I'm glad that we don't haveany play around with nuclear
reactors and so on and so forth.
But yeah, r p i's a uniqueinstitution.
(18:53):
You know, we're the oldest andtherefore the first
technological institute in thecountry.
Data technology in the businessworld, in our lolly school of
management, in our engineeringmajors.
We've got crazy super computerson campus and just, it's wild
the things that our young men doon campus and what they go to
do, beyond our doors.
And, I understand why they spenda lot of time on it.
(19:13):
'cause it's pretty cool stuff atthe end of the day.
Jay (19:15):
So, so no beer pond near that facility?
Ron (19:18):
Well, I was gonna say is in quotes, crazy supercomputer?
Is that a technical term?
Is that how they de is that howthey describe it there?
Is it just that, that crazysupercomputer department.
Scott (19:32):
I'll just let that one sit out there.
Okay.
Alright.
All right.
Steve (19:35):
Now this next one's, for Coach Dave.
And I give you a lot of creditfor not slipping this in, at
some point in the previousinterview.
But, there was a US presidentwho attended Dickinson, which US
president was that.
And also tell us some otherstuff about Dickinson that you
would like, potential recruitswho may be listening to know
Dave (19:53):
the president was James Buchanan.
Steve (19:56):
Oh, nice.
That's correct.
Well done.
Dave (19:58):
My history major at Dickinson, I got him know that
we were founded, in 1783 whenthe Revolutionary War ends and
we become a new nation.
So we are the first college inthe New Nation.
Wow.
A lot of history here.
George Washington,, gatheredtroops on our campus to, go out
to the Whiskey Rebellion, whichis west of here towards
(20:19):
Pittsburgh, Confederate troops,,as they were starting to
encircle Gettysburg gathered onour campus, Jeb Stewart and the
Calvary were coming throughtown.
so a neat college town with alot of history.
Steve (20:35):
Cool.
Very cool.
All right.
Uh, this next one's for Scottand, it primarily goes to what
was the most annoying thingabout having Ron as an older
brother growing up?
Jay (20:44):
The most.
Wow, that's gonna be tough.
How about several?
Ron Dawg (20:48):
Yeah, it's gotta be a long, a long list.
Here, I'll sit back, we'll setthe timer.
Steve (20:54):
We're actually looking for something specific and there
is a correct answer.
Scott (20:58):
Oh, wow.
Now that, now the pressure's on.
I, I didn't really think it wasa pressure cooker question at
first, but,, well,
Jay (21:06):
no second helpings available.
No seconds at dinner, Don, atthe mall.
Sorry.
Scott (21:12):
Yeah.
You know, he's a very largefigure, in many ways.
And so, yeah, it was,challenging to get to the table
and get food sometimes.
Um, you know, uh, it waschallenging to get, get shotgun,
uh, in the car.
Um, even if you had called itfirst, um, you know, there
might've been some quote unquotebullying.
Uh, you know, in some instances,um, I might've been a goalie for
(21:32):
part of my career because, youknow, you just wanted somebody
to shoot on.
Um, so, uh, yeah, gotta get, yougotta get better.
Coach Webbs.
You need somebody in the goal.
You want live shooting, right?
Live shooting.
Uh, no.
Jay (21:43):
Look, every defenseman needs that.
Scott (21:45):
I'm really fortunate to have Ron as my older brother,
and,, was fortunate to be hisbest man as a little punk
somehow.
I certainly, you know, knew howto probably push his buttons a
little bit.
And was very grateful that, thathe was my best man at my
wedding.
And so,, you know,, although we,certainly went at each other,
you know, like to think we madeeach other better and
fortunately for our relationshipfor sure,,
Steve (22:05):
those are all excellent answers, but the correct answer
was the volume.
Ron.
Ron's actually on mute rightnow, and I still have to turn my
computer down.
Jay (22:16):
Yeah.
I sky coming at you in so manyways.
Ron (22:19):
I mean, WEBY, they, they pretty much go to the, the fat
guy jokes and he is loud.
I mean, these are two thingsI've heard a lot.
Well, how about not over thepast four decades, not honoring
a shotgun call.
Wow, that's big.
Get keys my little brother.
Get You're not sitting in thefront seat.
Whatcha jumping?
What?
I knew you.
I don't care why?
I don't care why you called.
Come on please, please.
Jay (22:41):
That's dog for you right there.
All, the listeners are gettingit today.
Steve (22:46):
This last one's,, for Coach Dave.
Now that the statute oflimitations has probably
expired, what was the funniestthing that you ever had to call
either Scott or another playerinto your, into your office, to
discuss with him?
Ron (23:00):
Wow.
Yeah, coach, let's hear a littlesomething.
You know, it's, I mean, it's away, I mean, there's nothing
that could happen.
Now, let's just on, let's talkHonestly, what was happening
with Scott
Scott (23:11):
I was, I was a saint.
Dave (23:12):
I would just say that Scott's experience as an
undergrad,, I'm sure, has madehim a better coach now because
he went through some ups anddowns.
Ron (23:24):
I see.
He learned what not to do,coach.
Dave (23:27):
Well, there was certainly some of that.
But Scott mentioned early onthat one of the joys of coaching
is working with young men whocome in and you're like, wow,
I'm not sure he is gonna makeit.
Scott (23:38):
Are are you saying that was your thought about men?
Jay (23:41):
It comes to mind, huh?
Dave (23:42):
I'm saying there, you grew up a lot and that was very fair
and you learned the time and,and that's given you great
perspective to be a great coachand mentor now.
Ron Dawg (23:55):
Wow, that, that is the answer of a veteran right there.
Just skirting right through thefine line.
Very well done.
Excellent.
Well,, guys, this, this was justa ton of fun and,, we, we know
it is a really busy time for youguys.
As you mentioned, this is a timewhere you're really getting to
the end of the recruiting andtrying to finish up your
classes, so we appreciate youspending some time with us.
(24:15):
It's been a lot of fun.
Jay (24:17):
Thanks so much.
Really appreciate it.
Scott (24:19):
Yeah, can't, can't thank you all enough and, you know,
can't thank weby enough.
I'm,, not who I'm today, as acoach, as a person if it wasn't
for him, for sure.
Dave (24:27):
Thank you.
Appreciate it guys.
Fun.
Ron Dawg (24:30):
Yeah.
Alright guys.
Thank you.
Thanks for another great episodeof Get the Luck Scoop check.
Hey, it was wonderful.
Scott (24:37):
until we meet again, here to, hoping you find the twine.
We're signing off here at theGet the LAX coop.
Thanks again so much.
We will see you the next time.
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