April 23, 2025 • 41 mins
In this episode of Get the Lax Scoop, hosts Big Dawg and Jaybird dive into the world of lacrosse with some of the biggest names in the game. The show, brought to you by Jay McMahon Lacrosse (JML), features a compilation of interviews from top skills trainers in the country including Jamie Munro, Nick Tintle, and Jules Heningburg. Each guest shares their personal lacrosse journey and experiences, from collegiate lacrosse at Rutgers, Brown, and UNC to professional training careers across the United States. The episode also highlights the deep impact of influential coaches and mentors like Wayne Curtis and Rob Hollis on the lacrosse community, and delves into the personal adversities and triumphs faced by athletes like Nick Tintle. The discussions also touch on the importance of hard work, passion, and resilience in both sports and life. Listeners are encouraged to subscribe and leave reviews to support the podcast.
00:00 Introduction to Get the Lax Scoop
00:23 Meet the Hosts and Special Guest
00:59 Welcome Back and Compilation Introduction
01:42 Jamie Munro's Insights and Memories
10:54 Nick Tintle's Journey and Overcoming Adversity
21:55 The Medicine Game: A Perfect Antidote
22:29 Coaching and Building Momentum
22:59 The Desire to Compete Again
23:34 High School Lacrosse Journey
24:30 Sibling Rivalry and Growth
29:01 The Myth of Natural Talent
32:28 Overcoming Adversity at Columbia High
36:40 Triumph at Seton Hall Prep
41:11 Leadership and Success at Rutgers
41:33 Conclusion and Sign Off
NEW BOOK!
Inside the Recruiting Game: Insights From College Lacrosse Coaches
-Available on Amazon.com as an Ebook and paperback
Links to training videos:
Master The 5 Best Dodges From the Wing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_7LDOcQQ6Q&t=88s
Blazing Shots... on the Run!
https://youtu.be/XiptPlM63oQ
Check us out...
On YouTube @jaymcmahonlax23
On Instagram @jaymcmahonlax23
On Facebook @: facebook.com/jmcmahonlax23. Page name: Jay McMahon Lacrosse
Jules Heningburg: https://thelaxlab.com/
Check out!... Coach Tintle's Lacrosse Barn:
https://g.co/kgs/eXedCXf
SuccessHotline with Dr. Rob Gilbert on Ironclad & Apple Podcasts
Brian Cain Daily Dominator on Apple Podcasts
Lacrosse Charities Mentioned in S2 E36:
https://www.4thefuturefoundation.org/
https://www.harlemlacrosse.org/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
It's time for Get the LackScoop, a podcast bringing you
all the people and stuff youshould know in the game of
lacrosse.
We take lack seriously, butourselves, not so much.
Join host Big Dog and Jaybirdand the biggest names in the
game brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training.
(00:23):
Ron Doglish, the big dog, was acollegiate football and lacrosse
player at Brown.
He was also an assistantlacrosse coach and the executive
director of the SportsFoundation.
And Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, athree time All American
midfielder at Brown.
He was the captain of the U.
S.
Junior National Team and is thefounder of JML.
(00:43):
And Joining us in the studio,Steve Grisolfi, who's collegiate
lacrosse career statisticsequals one goal against
Dartmouth brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training, helping the
next generation of lacrosseplayers get to the next level
Hello everyone.
Welcome back to the show and forthose who are new to get the
(01:04):
lack scoop, a very warm welcometo you as well.
As many of our listeners know,we love our compilations and
that's because it really hammershome some of the best portions
of our previous quartersinterviews.
And the first quarter of 2025 isno different.
We had three of the top skillstrainers in the entire country
(01:24):
on our show.
Jamie Monroe, out of Denver,Colorado.
Nick Tinel, out of Dallas,Texas, and Jules Berg out of the
great state of New Jersey.
The wide breadth of thesetrainers approach mirrors their
wide geographic reach, the reachof the game we all love.
We'll start off this compilationwith Jamie Monroe, brother
(01:45):
Neil's remarks.
And let it roll from there.
We sure hope you enjoy it and ifyou do, please subscribe to the
show and leave a review.
As they say, it don't costnothing and it sure would help
us out.
You will find our interview inprogress.
You know, Moses Brown game fieldand Brown game field are
literally a block away.
(02:06):
So being able to walk over thereand see all these greats at
Brown was really helpful.
And Jay, you know, I just wantto, I want to point out, having
been in Rhode Island a long timemyself, these, these two guys
that Neil and Jamie arementioning, Wayne Curtis and Rob
Hollis.
Those two, for so many peopleI've heard about growing up in
(02:26):
Rhode Island, those were two ofthe guys who really grew the
game, not just at Moses Brown,but all over.
And you know, we guys on ourpodcast, it's been kind of fun.
We feel like we've.
You know, run across so manypeople who have told these
stories of growing up.
And there, there are alwaysthose one or two people in each
community who are kind of, youknow, the catalyst for changing
(02:49):
the game and growingparticipation.
And so I want to just shout outagain to Rob Hollis and Wayne
Curtis, who were two amazingpeople in the, in the sport of
lacrosse in Rhode Island.
Wayne Curtis ended up leavingright after my freshman year.
He left for the Hill School andthen Rob took over.
One of the awesome things aboutRob though was that he always
(03:12):
just wanted to play with you.
And so like in those days, itwas, there was so much free play
going on and Rob was also thesoccer coach.
So he was our soccer coach, andwas the assistant or whatever,
but he was involved with bothprograms, but so much of the
free play though, we just likemessed around and, and, and Rob
would come play with us.
He would like literally just beplaying.
Whatever little game we wereplaying, you know, at any time.
(03:34):
And we used to call him HackerHollis'cause he would like Outra
and, That's awesome.
He was he was a real beauty.
Yeah.
And he did, he he made a bigdifference in lacrosse.
That's great.
RIP Rob Hollis.
Yeah.
R Gotcha, gotcha.
Alright.
B and Wayne.
Curtis, we, we used to go downand play the Hill School, so he
went, he was the head coach atthe Hill School.
(03:55):
Yep.
Ah, and then he was, he ran thetryout at the Hill School for
the U 19 USA team.
That I tried out for way backone, another connection.
Ron loves these connections tothat small world team.
It also was the founder of theCocoa Beach spring break
lacrosse that went on for years,probably 30 years of spring
break down there.
(04:15):
Wow.
In fact, I mean, I, we went downto his spring break.
I'm pretty sure you do likefantasy camp down there.
I remember seeing some stuffonline about that.
Didn't you do that?
I ended up kind of doing thatmyself with 3D.
But but just back in the day, wegot some good memories that
we're not going to get into.
Oh, Jamie, trust me.
We had to edit our questionssignificantly.
(04:40):
Stays on spring break.
It's kind of like what happensin the brother's bar stays in
the brother's Absolutely.
I like it.
So now, Jamie, as we Reviewthere.
You had a great career at Brownand talk about playing for some
great coaches.
Played for Dom Starcia, MikeCaravana, Pete Lasagna.
Paul Hooper.
Paul Hooper.
Absolutely.
(05:00):
The Hooper was a great coach.
Hooper had played at WashingtonCollege and had been an
assistant at Carolina, and hecame up and was one of my
coaches as I was two yearsbehind Jamie and so much
knowledge of the game.
Absolutely.
So tell us some of your topmemories playing for those
coaches and your fellow Bears.
And then we'll take it fromthere.
(05:20):
Yeah.
Well, I mean, Brown lacrosse wasjust an incredible time, you
know, of our lives.
I mean, just the camaraderie.
The competition lacrosse ingeneral.
I mean, it's funny.
It's so again, it's so differentnow than it was then I mean, I
was like way more of a soccerplayer to be honest with you.
I wasn't even lacrosse wasn'treally my It was my favorite
(05:40):
sport in March, April and May,but I was really played way more
soccer.
And then all of a suddenlacrosse hit, I started getting
recruited by Dom.
You know, he didn't, he's anunbelievable recruiter and sort
of like relationship builder inthe recruiting process.
And, you know, you get your loveletters from him he's a, he's a
volume guy, like love Dom andjust like nonstop stuff.
(06:01):
And, you know, Pete's.
Passion for the game and his,you know, remember the video he
made, you remember that?
Like look brown lacrosse videothat he was Oh yeah.
He just did another one.
I dunno if you guys saw that.
The brown lacrosse.
Yeah.
It was awesome.
Came out and it was narrated.
Yeah.
And, and then you know, just.
The way that Dom just kind oflike really got, got the energy
(06:22):
behind that program and thepassion with Brown lacrosse with
a passion.
You remember the t shirts,right?
Oh, I mean, it was, it was ablast and, and, and just the,
the guys, the coat, the, thelevel of play, you know, you
remember Everything about it.
It was just a total blast.
In my caravana I mean he waslike this guy came up from
virginia ended up having a greatcareer as a head coach at
(06:43):
denison for a lot Of years wasthe assistant with us that He
was he really like was tough onus in the early years.
But yeah Because he was a bigtime attackman at uva.
So what was it like having thatkind of influence?
He was getting in your guy'sface a little bit.
He just He played a verydifferent way.
I mean, he's a Sawanika guy, wasa little guy, like straight up
(07:04):
and down, you know, played witha Sammy and just was like, you
know, this more like a DarrenLowe sort of type of a player
and that was not how I played.
Gags was probably a little bitcloser.
To that, but I was like, play alittle more dangle and but at
the end of the day though learna lot from him and and have
remained friends with him.
I keep in touch with my caravan,so it's, it's, it's really been
(07:27):
it's been great.
I mean, the brown memories.
You know, our, our memories of alifetime, just the best.
Right.
And it's true with the passionthing.
Like Dom's taking all theseyoung guys, you know, just
filled with energy and justencouraging that.
So, you know, it was high energywhen I got there as a freshman,
I was like, holy cow, you know,it was great.
High energy on the field, highenergy off the field.
(07:49):
Energy everywhere.
It was endless.
Hey, Jeremy, you know, I mean,you, you basically have been.
You know, I, I, I always thinkabout like, I don't think your
brain ever turns off fromlacrosse.
Like, you just seem like you'realways thinking the game and
that's always the way you'vebeen.
But I'm wondering, you know,you, you kind of been a lifelong
coach and teacher of the game.
(08:11):
What, I always think like everycoach you're with kind of
influences your style a littlebit.
So when you think about thosecoaches, how do you think those
guys impacted you as you movedon to your?
Yeah, well, I mean, I'd say withDom, it was just, I mean, he
really I, I, what I learned fromDom, so, so much of what I
(08:34):
learned from Dom was about,about how to kind of just sort
of run a program with that kindof passion and dedication.
His work ethic was unparalleled.
His recruiting was incredible.
The way he evaluated playerstoo, I would always learn from
Dom the way that he.
He was always looking forsomething really special in a
player, and he knew it could bedifferent.
(08:54):
And he would see somethingspecial and athletic, and he
would look for that player thathe could develop.
And it wasn't always just pureathleticism.
I mean, it had to do with, like,you know, a presence to that
player, or something that theydid really, something they did
better than anybody else.
And it was a really interestingway of kind of looking at it.
You know, thinking back tohoops, I mean, the way that That
(09:15):
Paul Hooper was able to likecreate a relationship with an
individual player and findsomething that that player Could
really be be excellent at andspecial with he would come up to
me like hey three Three he wouldcall you by your number.
He'd be like hey three I gotlike what do you got hoops?
He'd be like, you know, trythis, you know, try posting up
and then just sort of like Youknow, think about shooting a
(09:38):
backhand and slide it off the,slide it off the side of your
stick.
And he's like, but don't tellDom I told you that.
Right.
Right.
Right.
You know, and, Was he the onewho told you to fake the shot?
You faked a couple shots, likefaked them behind the back, and
then you ran around and scored acouple times.
I came up with that littlebehind the back fake in a, in a
(10:01):
tight one on one setup that wewere doing one day against Greg
Starkins on the roof.
Yeah.
And this was like, I was justgood there and Starkins like
turn around and I was like, ha,I'm just like, it's pretty
funny.
But that happened in the Cordellgame.
I think when I was a freshman,you did that.
And I remember being like,Jamie, it didn't work, move the
ball.
(10:21):
And you waited a little longerand everyone was looking around
the field.
No one knew where the ball was.
It went forever.
And then finally your defensemanlooked and you ran around and
scored.
It was whole.
Do you remember that?
That was hilarious.
It was called John.
Yeah.
We just kind of like pretend youdon't have to take a step.
Like you're a little bit tipsy,but that was hilarious.
(10:42):
So Jamie, that's like, move theball.
And he's like, no, no, I didn'tdo the drunk step yet.
All right, Neil, enough, Jamie,Neil, enough, Jamie, next up is
the great Nick Tin.
And then getting through that,getting over that adversity.
I know you're starting to writea book about your experience.
(11:05):
I'm sure it's not just aboutthat experience, but that's kind
of a keystone of it.
So tell us a little bit aboutthat time after Carolina, and
then what got you out toCalifornia?
Well, the book is done.
Oh wow.
I just, you know, we,congratulations.
Last, we're on our last bit ofediting and stuff.
I just had a, a meeting actuallybefore this.
We've got, the book has beenturned down by 72 publishers.
(11:27):
Our, it's just, it, we're not abig four sport.
There's, they don't see enoughaudience for it.
And that's the story of my lifegetting shut down and getting
rejected and stuff like that.
But this book's gonna be verysuccessful.
It's, it's, there you go.
You're not gonna take no for ananswer.
Right.
Oh, I love it.
I'm actually gonna take allthose rejections., I told the
literary agents to send me allthe rejections.
I wanna read'em and I wanna put'em in the book.
(11:48):
'cause when it, when it is, whenit is successful, that's
awesome.
And that's, but that's how I'mright.
You tell me I'm too small.
I'm gonna three be wrong.
That's, it's just like, like Mosome people would be crushed by
that.
Like, I was laughing on the Zoomcall today.
I was like, I was like, this isgreat.
This is exactly what the book'sabout.
It's about right.
Becoming adversity and I I Ilove that.
(12:09):
Right.
That's great.
So, so going back to college I,I graduated with a
communications degree, still notknowing what I want to do in my
life.
And I actually stayed for anextra semester.
The extra semester I get a callfrom a buddy at my from home.
Telling me one of my bestfriends was shot and killed.
Oh gosh.
(12:30):
Sorry man.
That just, wow.
So Sean killed up in Albany, NewYork.
So I graduated, not really, Idon't know, in a, in a, in a
rough way.
I, I got a happy dose of realityin real life.
Right, right.
You know, entering the realworld.
So that happened I wasgraduating, so I had to fly home
(12:54):
and bury my best friend and thenfly back and, you know, get my
diploma.
Mm-hmm.
And then, and then a month lateryou know, will, will, will
Barrow was another good friend.
And that happened a month later.
Oh gosh.
Yeah.
So I buried two really goodfriends within a month's time.
Mm-hmm.
(13:15):
Yeah.
And yeah, so that was the, theheavy, heavy dose of real life.
And, you know, it put me, andI'm not, I look back at this,
I'm not really proud of it, butgetting, you know, I, I got to a
really dark place you know,doing things out of my
character.
Mm-hmm.
I lost my way.
(13:35):
I I kind of escaped throughdrinking and, and other forms of
numbing the pain.
Mm-hmm.
So I was, I was completely lost.
I was working dead end jobs.
Again, it's a gift and a cursefor handling adversity.
Right.
You use your alumni.
Network to get into the realworld and jobs and work up the
(13:56):
corporate ladder, whatever youwant to do.
And I, my, my, my dad's acarpenter by trade, and my mom
was a teacher, so I didn't comefrom a lot of money.
So I wanted to be kind of thebreadwinner.
I wanted to make a lot of moneyyou know, be in the corporate
world, be in finance, whateverit may be in Manhattan.
And you know, I had all thesenetworks that were willing to
help me out.
They knew what I was goingthrough.
They were willing to help meout.
And I turned'em down because Itold'em I wanted to do it
(14:18):
myself.
I wanted to do it on my own.
I didn't take, I didn't takehand me outs.
Now, being in the businessworld, knowing about that, this,
this world is all aboutnetworking, right, right.
Yeah.
So, yeah, so I took a dead endjob selling car insurance at
Geico.
I worked a couple jobs.
Yeah.
So it, it just, it was a time inmy life that I don't like to
talk about.
It was just, it was a darkplace.
(14:40):
I dug, I dug a hole so deep, youknow, that, you know, it was, it
was.
The only way to climb out was tostart over.
Right.
So I decided to, I, I came homeone night and I was disappointed
in what I was doing.
And I told my, it was actuallymy sister.
I told my sister that I had toget out here.
(15:00):
I'm gonna go to California,which is the furthest place away
from New York.
Right.
Leaving three months.
And she said, go, you need tojust go and start over.
So that's, that's what I did.
I I saved a, a little bit ofmoney for the next three months,
and then I drove.
And did you have like anyconnection to California?
No, I had nobody out there.
I don't, I didn't, I mean, Ifound, I found people once I was
(15:20):
out that I didn't even know wereout there.
But yeah.
That's great.
I joined Cross Country withthree other buddies and we
started, it just started over.
That's amazing.
Well, Nick, man, I, I you know,I'm so grateful for you sharing
what you shared.
I, I really do think it'simportant for.
Young kids to understand, youknow, life can be tough and and
(15:42):
you clearly went through somereally challenging times and
it's still so raw for you allthese years later, you know?
And so appreciate you sharing itbecause again, I, I think
sometimes, especially as guysand athletes and tough guys,
we're not supposed to talkabout, you know, those, our
feelings and those things thatreally impacted us.
But I think, you know, there'sso many people who struggle in
(16:05):
different ways in their life andhaving people who have
accomplished what you'veaccomplished despite all of it
you know, it's, it's a, it's animportant story to tell.
So right.
And then I think it probably,it's not easy than I appreciate,
right?
It's got really tough and, butI'm sure it adds such another
layer to your experience thatyou can share with these kids,
right?
That it just makes you that muchstronger.
(16:26):
I mean, it's, really amazing.
But go ahead Ron.
I'm, I'm cutting you off.
When you're ready to give yournext question.
Well, not only that, you cut meoff when I was trying to tell
Nick at a very emotional momentin our, in our Ron LAX history,
just trying to be positive here,Jay.
Good lord.
Yeah.
But anyway, Nick, thanks forsharing that, man.
(16:47):
Really appreciate it.
Well, I, I didn't, I didn'tshare it for so long.
I, I buried it Yeah.
A long time.
I I actually started sharing itright bef, you know, right about
when Covid hit, that's when Istarted opening up because I, I
saw these kids struggling on adeeper level than what we were,
I mean, what parents wereseeing, what teachers were
(17:07):
seeing, what coaches wereseeing.
It gave me the avenue to talk tothem on a deeper level and kind
of share my experiences, youknow, once I figured out what
was going on with them.
And a lot of kids were in verydark places right.
It's the thing I think we'retaught to like tamp all that
stuff down, right?
So it's interesting how it wascoming up to you as you're
seeing these kids go throughjust a bigger struggle than most
(17:30):
people would ever have gonethrough.
So that's, that's pretty cool.
So, so Nick, is it a, isn't itan exaggeration to say that, you
know, you, you go out toCalifornia and, and is is
finding physical training andlacrosse training, did that kind
of get you back, get your mojoback in terms of things you
(17:51):
loved and now you were sharingthings you loved with other
people?
You know, what role did thatplay in kind of your rebirth, so
to speak?
It, it did eventually when Ifirst moved out, I just needed
to find a job and pay for rent.
Yeah.
Right, right.
So I actually, I moved toCalifornia and the, the story
goes like this.
I I got, I took a job sellingsolar panels, door to door
(18:14):
canvassing doors.
Lacrosse was in the rear viewmirror for me.
I never thought I would pick upa stick again, to be honest.
Wow.
I was so burnt out after collegethen that happened and I was
just, you know, I didn't thinkabout it.
I just thought about what'snext.
And yeah, I was too busyclimbing my way outta the hole
that I dug for myself.
So it really wasn't, wasn'tthere.
(18:35):
But I canvass at her house andI, I thank this lady for yelling
at me this close to my face.
She, you know, stoppedsoliciting at my door and like,
yell, I mean, cursing.
Every curse word came outta ofher mouth.
And I sat across.
So she finally left, and then Iwent across the street and sat
down.
I was like, I don't want to dothis right.
I don't wanna do this.
So I call my mom and I go, mom,I, I'm gonna quit this job.
(18:58):
And, you know, she's obviouslyhas more wisdom than I do at
that age.
And she told me, don't quituntil you find another job.
I call my other buddy and he islike, we're drinking Corona's on
the beach in Huntington Beach.
And I go, yep, I'm quitting.
So I hand my clipboard to theguy, I go, I go drink on the
beach in, in Huntington Beach,California.
And I wake up on, you know, onthe weekend and Monday comes
(19:21):
around, I'm jobless and I gotall these bills to pay and I'm
like, I'm screwed.
So I, I I hired a headhunter,got me a couple of corporate
interviews.
And this is where this comesback full circle as I'm sitting
in the interview.
And at this time I actuallyinterviewed for a job in
Manhattan that I got.
It was nine interviews long.
It was for like a financialadvising.
And I got the job out 300applicants.
(19:42):
It was like three people got gotasked to, to come on board and I
turned it out because I wasgonna California.
But I just, I was in acompetitive mode of like seeing
if I can get this high end job.
So I was really good atinterviewing.
I, I knew what to tell people,what they wanted to hear, and so
on and so forth.
So I was at this Fortune 500company and the last question
she asked, she goes, where doyou see yourself in five to 10
(20:04):
years?
And I, I sat there for a minuteand I thought, I really thought
about it on the beach drinkingCoronas.
Holy kidding.
And so I really thought aboutthe question for a second, and
I, and that's when it was kindof, that's, that was like my
aha, aha moment of like, what doI love?
What do I, I love strength andconditioning and speed because
it helped me when I, when I hadno answers, that was the only
(20:25):
answer that got me to where Iwanted to go.
So I got my strength andconditioning.
So she asked me, where do yousee yourself in five to 10
years?
And I go, and, you know, theanswer is I see myself climbing
up the corporate ladder, being amanager, a leader of a team,
and, and you know, whatever thatis for that company.
And I told her, I said, in fiveto 10 years I see myself owning
my own gym.
And she goes, okay, well it wasnice to meet, right?
(20:49):
My head hunter calls me andgoes, what the, what are you
whatcha doing?
I go, I found out what I wannado.
I'm gonna get, I'm gonna go getmy strength and conditioning
certifications.
I'm gonna get my speed.
And I really, my, my gift wasspeed change direction, stuff
like that.
So I really want to dive intothe speed world, and that's what
I did.
So I I went to the first gymthat I applied to.
(21:10):
I went into it in, in like ameetup with them, and they hired
me on the spot.
They didn't hire me because Ihad my strength and speed
certification.
That was one that was, you know,it's a cherry on top, but my
resume read All America UNC,lacrosse.
Lacrosse, lacrosse.
So they're like, we have a bunchof lacrosse athletes that need a
lacrosse specific trainer.
I was like, I don't, I don't dothat.
(21:31):
I, and they're like, wellthat's, that's, that's your
resume and that's what we needyou for.
So if you don't wanna do that,then we don't have a job for
you.
So I I took it and startedcoaching both boys and girls
lacrosse.
And then That's funny.
That's kind of when I, you know,the, I, I talk about this.
You couldn't get away from it.
You couldn't get away from it.
It, it came after you.
I got away, I got away for itfor six years, but it came back
(21:53):
into my life Right.
When I needed it.
I, I, right, right.
Tend to tell people, you know,like we call it the medicine
game and yeah, I never reallypaid attention to that or
understood that, but I 100%believe that it was the perfect
antidote for me at that time.
Right.
It got me back, it got a stickback in my hand.
I was making$10 an hour.
I was eating subway for lunchand dinner.
(22:14):
So I was by, at the time it was$5 foot longs I was close to be.
So I would order a$5 foot longand cut it in half, you know,
have half for lunch and half fordinner.
Barely have enough gas in my carto get to and from work.
But I loved what I was doing.
I was coaching kids, I wasteaching'em speed, teach'em
strength, getting some, some youknow, some hours logging
(22:36):
strength and speed, and thendoing the lacrosse on the side
and building the lacrosse thing.
And then I start, you know,start getting these kids really
good at lacrosse.
And I'm, I'm starting to gainmomentum and then I go to a
couple games and watch.
And then I started, you know, Iwas coaching a club team.
I was coaching high school, andthen I'm like on the sideline
and I'm like getting morenervous than the kids are.
And I'm like, those butterfliesare like, I want to, I wanna
(22:57):
compete again.
I wanna play again.
MacBook Pro Microphone-3 (22:59):
He wants to play again.
He wants to compete again, butit's been a while since his UNC
days.
It's the age old question thathaunts every athlete sooner or
later, and that question is,does this old jalopy still have
gas in the tank to find out?
Tune in next week.
And now we'll tune into ourinterview with four time All
(23:19):
Star Jules Henning.
But it was all kind of like.
Me just figuring it out alongthe way and having to, yeah.
To be like, all right, like, letme, let me just try to lock in a
little bit more if this is what,you know, I kind of want to do.
That's cool.
Nice stuff.
Yeah.
And we love, you know, talkingabout the relationships, you
were talking about, you know,your dad and then your brother
(23:40):
Dylan, and then, you know,taking a look, your high school
at Columbia, you went there to10th grade and then mm-hmm.
As you, as we were saying, youwent to Seton Hall after that.
But looking at the stat sheet,you know, you had, they have all
the stats on there for ColumbiaHigh School, like every year.
So I could see, like when you'rein 10th grade, I.
You had like a few more pointsthan your brother Dylan, but he
(24:00):
did have a few more goals.
So, but I was thinking that musthave been so cool to play with
your brother.
I have a younger brother, but hekind of was like a maybe a year
behind where he wasn't as good.
He wasn't gonna play in the samemidfield as me.
I was a midfielder.
But tell us about that.
That must have been awesome tobe playing and at, at this
stage, you're really gettingcompetitive with it playing with
your older brother there atColumbia High School and looked
(24:23):
like you guys had a good littleseason there.
So tell us about that.
Yeah, JI mean, you know, youkind of hit the nail on the
head.
The opportunity to, to play withyour brothers is definitely a
special one.
I, I think you, you might takeit for granted when you're, when
you're young you know, our dadwas definitely pushing us around
it and looking back on that,like that, that's such a special
experience.
But in, in the time, me and himbutted heads a ton, honestly,
(24:46):
really.
I think it started in thebackyard.
We had this like dirt court withlike tree roots grown out of it.
And my dad put up a basketballhoop.
And you could raise it higher orlower.
So we started pretty young, likeyou could put it lower and we
would just go at, go at it afterout there.
And he's got a completelydifferent build than me.
Like I'm slim.
He's, I'm six two, he's 5 8, 59.
(25:07):
But like stocky, more like aMatt Rambo type.
Yeah.
I'm skin and bones.
He's solid.
I'm more shifty, you know, we'replaying against each other.
It was always competitive andeventually I figured out like
how I could beat him.
Right.
And become like, all right, Ican't have my, my younger
brother beating me.
So, right.
Like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonnafoul the outta you.
(25:27):
So starts dropping the hammer.
Exactly.
Like I'm shaking past you.
I go for a layup and I'm justgetting like, jumped the ball.
I would, I would never have donesuch a thing, Jay, that's I, I,
oh yeah, right.
Ron.
Ron was the oldest of, he seemslike Dylan and I've had a
similar strategy.
Yeah.
Oh man.
Dylan's not here to defendhimself.
He just had a baby.
(25:48):
He was gonna be on the podcastto let everybody know, but, but
that's great.
No.
And I got, I gotta give him hisflowers though.
Like, we'll get a statement fromhim perhaps, and he'll admit
that like I, because we have agreat relationship now, and
that, that's why I want, youknow, wanted to get him on here.
He's a, he's a brilliantlacrosse mine.
He is the offensive coordinatorat Lawrenceville.
Yeah.
National championship program.
Yeah.
(26:08):
That's awesome.
When you, in high school, like Iwas more of a gifted lacrosse
player from like, the overallsense, because I worked really
hard and I was, you know, I wasshifty, but he was actually more
naturally talented than I was.
He just didn't like put in asmuch work as a player because,
you know, I just, I loved to, Iloved to work hard.
(26:30):
Like I, that was my thing when Iwas young.
Mm-hmm.
I knew I was good, but I didn'tever feel like I was the best,
but I was competitive, so I waslike, what's it gonna take for
me to, to become my best and,and beat these other guys that
are playing on the club orthey're, they're getting this
ranking or whatever.
He was, I'm always justnaturally talented and, and
bigger.
So he would just show up andhe'd be like, it's game time.
Like I'm, I'm right.
(26:50):
Get it.
And so in, when we would look atthe course of a season when I
was younger, I would be the moreproductive player.
But when mm-hmm.
To you wanted to give him theball'cause you're like, he's
just gonna go get us a goal.
He's a gamer.
He's a gamer.
Yeah.
I wasn't a gamer growing up.
I was more strategic, high iq.
Like, I'm gonna make everyonebetter.
(27:12):
And I had to develop a gamerkind of sense for, for me.
And you know, it's, it's funny'cause my dad was like, if you
could combine you two, you'd belike the best lacrosse player
ever.
It was like just, you know,figuring out things.
And he's taken more of the, thework ethic approach now as a
coach for Right film.
You know, what he does for hisguys and, and just that side of
(27:33):
things.
But he has always loved thegame.
So, you know, it's kind ofcoming together for him full
circle as a coach where.
I talk lacrosse with a decentamount of people, but like
there's only a handful of peoplethat I will actually trust,
wholeheartedly, trust theiropinion about the sport with.
And, and he's one of those guysand he wasn't always that way,
(27:53):
but he's worked himself to justunderstanding the game at such a
high level to where now I canthrow something at him and he's
gonna be able to give me solidadvice about it.
And, and so we, we bond overthat and it, we have a a solid
relationship now in that, inthat aspect.
That's great.
Despite all those hard fouls,you've, you've gotten over it,
despite the hard fouls, thecontrollers being broken and,
(28:14):
and you know, like just throwingme through a window.
Like I, a lot of stories, Imean, Jules, it doesn't sound
like you harbor any ill will.
'cause if I could summarize whatyou just said about Dylan.
Well, basically I was a betterathlete than him, and I was
smarter.
He is worked harder.
And now I kind of e listen whathe has to say about the game.
I mean, is that, have you heardthis a pretty good summary from
your brothers out there, Jules?
(28:34):
I mean, yeah.
That, that, that's a, that's apretty good summary.
And I, I would just, I wasalways like, yo, like I'm, I'm a
good player.
I'm like, dude, why don't youjust come work with me?
Like, yeah, you, you would be,you would actually be the goat
if you came and worked with me,but you want to go do this, go
do that.
It's like, all right, I'll justwork in silence.
And then we show up, shockerthat I'm, you know, the, the
better player.
And he would, he would literallyat the time be like.
(28:55):
Like, screw you, this and that.
But now he's like, no, Julesjust, he literally just worked
hard.
He didn't do anything special.
Like talented.
MacBook Pro Microphone (29:02):
Ladies and gentlemen, this is a great
time to talk about one of thebiggest myths in all of sports.
The idea that some players arejust born with talent while
others aren't the truth.
No one is born knowing how tocradle shoot dodge, or throw a
perfect pass.
Everything you see an athlete dowith a lacrosse stick.
(29:22):
They had to learn.
Think about the greatestathletes of all time.
Let's look at basketball.
Steph Curry didn't come out ofthe womb draining threes.
LeBron James wasn't born with aperfect slam dunk or jump shot.
These guys put in countlesshours of work.
If they were just naturallytalented, why would they need to
practice so much?
Why?
Because skill beats talent.
(29:44):
When talent doesn't work hard,I.
Remember that skill beatstalent.
When talent doesn't work hard,lacrosse is no different.
If you want to be great, it'snot about whether you were born
with it in quotes.
It's about how much time you'rewilling to put in your skills,
your lacrosse, iq, your mindset.
Those are all things you candevelop.
(30:05):
The difference between a goodplayer and a great player.
It's not talent.
It's who's willing to do thework, who's willing to get on
the wall, work on their weekend,break down film, and sharpen
their mind.
So if you ever thought, I'm notjust as talented as that guy,
stop it right there.
So if you ever thought, I'm notjust as talented as that guy,
(30:27):
stop right there.
Talent is just potential.
Skill is what you create througheffort and the best part, skill
has no limits.
You can get better, you canclose the gap.
You just have to be willing toput in the work.
So the question isn't, do I havetalent?
The question is, how much areyou willing to earn your skill?
(30:50):
Think about that one, folks.
Now, we'll, return to ourinterview and you'll find that
interview in progress.
I did.
Didn't work.
Say all that.
Yeah.
And, and you know, if I did, Iwould've been a better player.
So I, I appreciate him for, youknow, kind of us having those
conversations and dialogues asyou get older.
'cause when you're young, yeah,we're just in the trenches
together and, you know theseason and everything.
(31:11):
But definitely being reallycompetitive too.
Well, I get you Jules.
'cause I was a worker and it'shard to convince people like dog
who's a big talker and loves thegame and everything, who just
shows up, you know, it's likeimpossible.
So I, I get it.
Oh yeah.
Jay, I'm a grinder.
I'm a natural athlete who showedup.
I never, I thought I was anatural athlete, but I did work
hard, Ron.
I You did.
So gotta give that.
I will.
I will give you that.
(31:32):
Jay, you were a grinder.
Jay Grinder.
You were a grinder.
I'm a grinder.
I'm not sure how we got thatback to you, Jay, but George,
you'll notice.
Well, I'm just encouraging ourguests that Jay will bring it
back to him.
Quite often.
That's all right.
It's, you know, I'll let youhave it.
Hey thank you Jules.
So, you know, moving on, you,you then go to Seton Hall Prep
(31:53):
and I will give Jay props.
He does some tremendous researchfor our shows and to learn that
you were the first worker rungrinder, you were the first high
school all American.
That's kind of a cool thing, youknow, to be the first All
American ever at your highschool, and then you lead'em to
a county championship.
So first of all, why'd you moveon to Seton Hall Prep?
(32:16):
And then how did your careergrow?
And really, I'm sure it's inthose years where now you're
putting yourself in position tobe, you know, a Division one big
10 lacrosse player.
Yeah.
Honestly, the, so when we weregrowing up, the, the rec
program, right, which was theclub program originally
Maplewood.
(32:37):
They were selling, they wereselling me a dream.
Like honestly, they're greatsalesmen.
All the coaches there and, andthe, the development that they
were looking to have with us toget to the high school.
And so I bought into that.
I was like, I'm gonna go to theColumbia High School.
I'm gonna be one of the greatthat have been there.
I'm gonna break all the records.
Like that was I, and I thought abunch of my teammates were all
(32:58):
like, yeah, like, we're gonna goto Columbia, it's gonna be
great.
And eighth grade comes and allthe, my team just like leaves to
go to other schools, basicallylike all the good kids.
Hmm.
So in my mind I'm like, wow,like we just spent all this time
together growing up playing rec,we had an amazing experience.
And then eighth grade kind ofstarts to dip.
May maybe some guys don't go topuberty, some guys aren't
(33:18):
working as hard, which I thinkthat's what you see in eighth
grade.
And then ninth grade came andeveryone was gone.
But during that time, I would, Iwould play I would play up.
So I, in the summer times and inmaybe in the tournaments that we
would go to with each other.
I would be playing with theolder kids and I would, I would
be doing well and like Iwouldn't just be doing well.
(33:39):
I'd be like one of the best guysout there.
So there was always a sense ofwhen I got to Columbia that I
was gonna be a freshman onvarsity and, and make a big
impact.
And then the coach that wasthere originally, he moved on to
another school.
So they got a new coach and hekind of was a little bit more
old school.
And I, I think his rule, I knowhis rule is freshmen cannot play
(34:00):
varsity, which is, I'm a coachnow.
It's a ridiculous rule.
And I would never yeah, havethat in place.
But like, I get it, likeeveryone kind of has their own
approach.
And if it works, it works.
But we weren't good.
So like if we, if we're not agood program, like you need to
put the best players in theposition possible to help your
team succeed.
And so when I started hearingfrom my brother and some of the
(34:23):
upperclassmen, they're like,Jules, like you're not gonna be
able to play varsity.
I'm looking at these guys likethey got 10 heads.
'cause I'm like.
Let's go out to the field rightnow and let's see.
Right.
Let's see who's best player heis.
Like, I'll take you.
I'm only another guy out therethat I know who's more talented
than me.
And, and that's it.
And so I was like, I'm justgonna go to the coach's office
and I'm gonna ask him like, Idon't know why this is this kind
(34:44):
of weird gray area when we'vebeen playing together for three
or four years.
Like, I, and this doesn't makesense.
So I go in there and I asked himand, and he was like, yep, you
know, freshmen can't playvarsity.
And I was like, I'm not askingto play.
I'm asking for a tryout.
I'm asking for you to evaluatemy skillset based on where,
where I'm at right now,according to the, the rest of
the group.
(35:04):
And he was like, nah, it's justnot gonna happen.
And I was crushed, you know,like,'cause that was my, my
dream for a long time.
And I, I also thought, if youdon't play varsity as a freshman
at Columbia, like how am I evergonna play at the next level was
also my mindset.
And I kind of, you know, I tookthat in stride and I flipped
this switch and I was like,okay, I'm playing freshman
lacrosse for a team that, youknow, with 90% of kids that have
(35:25):
never played lacrosse before.
Because all my rest of myteammates left and I made the
most of the experience.
I got to play jv, we won the JVchampionship, you know, like MVP
of the JV championship,whatever.
And so that gave me, you know,some, some sense of like
confidence, belief in myself.
I see what I can do, even thoughmaybe the coach doesn't see it.
Even if he does, he doesn'tcare.
(35:46):
He is got rules, whatever.
But the next year comes and hestarts to like, honestly pick on
me and bully me.
Which again, crazy thing to doas a coach now is, is someone
working with young men andwomen.
He would just be saying thingsthat were just completely off,
off base.
And I would just kind of have totake it on the chin.
(36:08):
And I, you know, eventually my,I wouldn't talk about it'cause I
was just like, whatever.
But my brother would, wouldbring it home to my dad and then
my dad would catch wind of it.
And then my dad, you know, like.
He's a big guy.
He's not, he's not scaredanyone.
He goes up to the coach and heis like, yeah, you got something
to say about my son.
Like, I'm happy for you to tellme about it and let's talk about
(36:28):
it.
He didn't like that.
He was definitely afraid of, ofthat conversation.
And so my brother and I werethere, my brother graduates.
I'm like, I'm not staying here.
Like, there's no way I'm stayingat this school.
Right.
And then that's, that's whatbrought me to Scene Hall.
And ironically one of the kids Ihad left the program, he, once
people started to catch windthat like, what was going on?
(36:48):
Like this coach was doing this,and then they were like, Jules
is leaving.
Everyone's like, that's crazythat this is going on, but like,
gotta get him to C Hall.
Don't let him go to, you know,there's like a bunch of
parochial schools.
And so I had a friend and he, hewas vouching for me.
And then that coach was thecoach of, that we're based in
counties in New Jersey.
So they'd have these countytryouts and the coach of our
(37:12):
county tri, like tryout was the,the seed hall varsity head
coach.
So I go there and then like hesees me, gets to meet me in
person, you know, I'm the best,best player on that county team.
And so that it became like a nobrainer that he was like, I
don't understand what's going onhere, but come one, come all
happy to Right.
Pick you on.
Yeah.
And so I, you know, I'm forevergrateful for, for him to do that
(37:35):
to, you know, to see in me likea, another coach could have been
like, oh, you're a problem.
You're this, you're that.
But, but he took me at facevalue from the tryout, from the
in, you know, the conversationsthat we had and then you know,
had a, a crazy experience at, atc Hall, like I got there.
And they, they weren't very goodat that point, right?
When you first got there?
(37:55):
No, it's, so the, the weirdthing was they had some
tradition at the school and notas much as I thought there was
more tradition.
'cause it had some programs inthe past.
Coach Deco was coached them to astate championship in 2004.
So I knew there was sometradition.
I knew they had division oneplayers.
But when I got there, like wehad won in the off season in the
(38:18):
winter tournament and you know,I, I was a part of that.
I was, you know, guys started tolearn about me, what am I
bringing to the table?
I'm building relationships withthese guys.
Then the season starts and wejust, we are two and eight
because I have to sit out forthe first 10 games of the season
'cause of transfer.
Oh really?
Yeah.
Transfer rule.
(38:39):
Yeah.
And, and so I'm sitting thereand I'm like, I can't believe I
just transferred to this schooland I had a better record at
Columbia with a bunch of kidswho just we're just playing
lacrosse.
You know, granted, like,honestly, the schedules weren't
that much different either.
And, but we had talent.
So I was like, okay, again, Igotta figure out what, what can
I do to make an impact, apositive impact.
(39:01):
I gotta make the most of this.
And then I started playing andlike, honestly, they just needed
someone to, to reel it in alittle bit and be the
quarterback.
And I, that speaks to like howimportant that.
That role really is, and theyjust happen to not really have
that on the team.
Mm-hmm.
And so it kind of just workedout with some synergy there that
I came in, I slotted in, youknow, first game we win and
(39:23):
like, everyone's like, wow.
Like that felt so muchdifferent.
And then all of a sudden we, wego on this 10 game winning
streak.
We, we beat Del Barr in theirranked number one in the country
by inside lacrosse.
Wow.
Won the county championship.
We lost in the finals to DonBosco.
Incredible.
Don Bosco.
Oh man.
Yeah.
But it was kind of a Cinderellastory thing where we went from
two and eight to 11 and nine,like didn't lose until the state
(39:44):
championship.
And Wow.
The following year the coach islike, Hey, like you're a captain
now.
Which like, you know, I was atransfer.
No one knew who I was.
I didn't play.
And then all of a sudden I'm acaptain.
So it's again, speaks to likehim as a, just as a coach, as a
man for giving me thatopportunity.
I would not be here if he didn'tdo that.
And that was, that was just howit worked out.
So really.
(40:05):
It always felt like I had a lotof belief in myself.
But my circumstances justweren't really the best for me
and for all intents andpurposes.
But I didn't ever let that like,define my experience.
Like I was always like, what canI do to control and do the best
I can?
Whether it was on the freshmanteam, whether it's on sophomore
where the coach doesn't evenwant me to be there, I'm on an a
(40:25):
team that's two and eight.
Like I was always just kind oftrying to write my own story and
eventually, you know, the storystarted to to work out for me.
That's great.
Good stuff.
And, and a little bit of thatresearch that came up that you
weren't a ranked recruit.
I guess the way things were doneat that stage, Ron and I, there
was wasn't much of a ranking.
People might have had somerumors, but there was, there was
(40:47):
nothing published.
But then you go into their r torts, Jay would've had himself
high in the rankings.
Oh yeah.
Just so you know.
He would've, the rumor wa therumor was I was very high in
ranking actually.
That's great.
That's, that's all he wanted tosay, Jules.
That's why you brought thatwhole thing up as long as you
earned it, Jay, you know,that's, that's what I respect.
Exactly, Jules.
Lots of hard work.
(41:08):
But you know, there you are atSeton Hall, you become a leader
there.
And then same thing at Rutgers,you're a two time captain, so by
the time you're a junior, you'reone of the leaders on the team.
And then by the time you're asenior, you're one of the best
attacker in the whole country.
So just awesome stuff there.
So tell us, tell us about thatjourney there at Rutgers with
the Scarlet Knights.
MacBook Pro Microphone-2 (41:29):
Uh, yes.
What a journey it was.
To hear all about it.
That is how Jules Denberg,metaphorically speaking, wrote a
powerful steed, dressed as ascarlet night onto victory.
Tune in next week, my friends.
Until we meet again.
Here's to hoping you find thetwine.
(41:50):
We're signing off here at theget the lax scoop.
Thanks again so much.
We will see you the next time.
It's time for Get the LackScoop, a podcast bringing you
all the people and stuff youshould know in the game of
lacrosse.
We take lack seriously, butourselves, not so much.
Join host Big Dog and Jaybirdand the biggest names in the
game brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training.
(00:23):
Ron Doglish, the big dog, was acollegiate football and lacrosse
player at Brown.
He was also an assistantlacrosse coach and the executive
director of the SportsFoundation.
And Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, athree time All American
midfielder at Brown.
He was the captain of the U.
S.
Junior National Team and is thefounder of JML.
(00:43):
And Joining us in the studio,Steve Grisolfi, who's collegiate
lacrosse career statisticsequals one goal against
Dartmouth brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training, helping the
next generation of lacrosseplayers get to the next level
Hello everyone.
Welcome back to the show and forthose who are new to get the
(01:04):
lack scoop, a very warm welcometo you as well.
As many of our listeners know,we love our compilations and
that's because it really hammershome some of the best portions
of our previous quartersinterviews.
And the first quarter of 2025 isno different.
We had three of the top skillstrainers in the entire country
(01:24):
on our show.
Jamie Monroe, out of Denver,Colorado.
Nick Tinel, out of Dallas,Texas, and Jules Berg out of the
great state of New Jersey.
The wide breadth of thesetrainers approach mirrors their
wide geographic reach, the reachof the game we all love.
We'll start off this compilationwith Jamie Monroe, brother
(01:45):
Neil's remarks.
And let it roll from there.
We sure hope you enjoy it and ifyou do, please subscribe to the
show and leave a review.
As they say, it don't costnothing and it sure would help
us out.
You will find our interview inprogress.
You know, Moses Brown game fieldand Brown game field are
literally a block away.
(02:06):
So being able to walk over thereand see all these greats at
Brown was really helpful.
And Jay, you know, I just wantto, I want to point out, having
been in Rhode Island a long timemyself, these, these two guys
that Neil and Jamie arementioning, Wayne Curtis and Rob
Hollis.
Those two, for so many peopleI've heard about growing up in
(02:26):
Rhode Island, those were two ofthe guys who really grew the
game, not just at Moses Brown,but all over.
And you know, we guys on ourpodcast, it's been kind of fun.
We feel like we've.
You know, run across so manypeople who have told these
stories of growing up.
And there, there are alwaysthose one or two people in each
community who are kind of, youknow, the catalyst for changing
(02:49):
the game and growingparticipation.
And so I want to just shout outagain to Rob Hollis and Wayne
Curtis, who were two amazingpeople in the, in the sport of
lacrosse in Rhode Island.
Wayne Curtis ended up leavingright after my freshman year.
He left for the Hill School andthen Rob took over.
One of the awesome things aboutRob though was that he always
(03:12):
just wanted to play with you.
And so like in those days, itwas, there was so much free play
going on and Rob was also thesoccer coach.
So he was our soccer coach, andwas the assistant or whatever,
but he was involved with bothprograms, but so much of the
free play though, we just likemessed around and, and, and Rob
would come play with us.
He would like literally just beplaying.
Whatever little game we wereplaying, you know, at any time.
(03:34):
And we used to call him HackerHollis'cause he would like Outra
and, That's awesome.
He was he was a real beauty.
Yeah.
And he did, he he made a bigdifference in lacrosse.
That's great.
RIP Rob Hollis.
Yeah.
R Gotcha, gotcha.
Alright.
B and Wayne.
Curtis, we, we used to go downand play the Hill School, so he
went, he was the head coach atthe Hill School.
(03:55):
Yep.
Ah, and then he was, he ran thetryout at the Hill School for
the U 19 USA team.
That I tried out for way backone, another connection.
Ron loves these connections tothat small world team.
It also was the founder of theCocoa Beach spring break
lacrosse that went on for years,probably 30 years of spring
break down there.
(04:15):
Wow.
In fact, I mean, I, we went downto his spring break.
I'm pretty sure you do likefantasy camp down there.
I remember seeing some stuffonline about that.
Didn't you do that?
I ended up kind of doing thatmyself with 3D.
But but just back in the day, wegot some good memories that
we're not going to get into.
Oh, Jamie, trust me.
We had to edit our questionssignificantly.
(04:40):
Stays on spring break.
It's kind of like what happensin the brother's bar stays in
the brother's Absolutely.
I like it.
So now, Jamie, as we Reviewthere.
You had a great career at Brownand talk about playing for some
great coaches.
Played for Dom Starcia, MikeCaravana, Pete Lasagna.
Paul Hooper.
Paul Hooper.
Absolutely.
(05:00):
The Hooper was a great coach.
Hooper had played at WashingtonCollege and had been an
assistant at Carolina, and hecame up and was one of my
coaches as I was two yearsbehind Jamie and so much
knowledge of the game.
Absolutely.
So tell us some of your topmemories playing for those
coaches and your fellow Bears.
And then we'll take it fromthere.
(05:20):
Yeah.
Well, I mean, Brown lacrosse wasjust an incredible time, you
know, of our lives.
I mean, just the camaraderie.
The competition lacrosse ingeneral.
I mean, it's funny.
It's so again, it's so differentnow than it was then I mean, I
was like way more of a soccerplayer to be honest with you.
I wasn't even lacrosse wasn'treally my It was my favorite
(05:40):
sport in March, April and May,but I was really played way more
soccer.
And then all of a suddenlacrosse hit, I started getting
recruited by Dom.
You know, he didn't, he's anunbelievable recruiter and sort
of like relationship builder inthe recruiting process.
And, you know, you get your loveletters from him he's a, he's a
volume guy, like love Dom andjust like nonstop stuff.
(06:01):
And, you know, Pete's.
Passion for the game and his,you know, remember the video he
made, you remember that?
Like look brown lacrosse videothat he was Oh yeah.
He just did another one.
I dunno if you guys saw that.
The brown lacrosse.
Yeah.
It was awesome.
Came out and it was narrated.
Yeah.
And, and then you know, just.
The way that Dom just kind oflike really got, got the energy
(06:22):
behind that program and thepassion with Brown lacrosse with
a passion.
You remember the t shirts,right?
Oh, I mean, it was, it was ablast and, and, and just the,
the guys, the coat, the, thelevel of play, you know, you
remember Everything about it.
It was just a total blast.
In my caravana I mean he waslike this guy came up from
virginia ended up having a greatcareer as a head coach at
(06:43):
denison for a lot Of years wasthe assistant with us that He
was he really like was tough onus in the early years.
But yeah Because he was a bigtime attackman at uva.
So what was it like having thatkind of influence?
He was getting in your guy'sface a little bit.
He just He played a verydifferent way.
I mean, he's a Sawanika guy, wasa little guy, like straight up
(07:04):
and down, you know, played witha Sammy and just was like, you
know, this more like a DarrenLowe sort of type of a player
and that was not how I played.
Gags was probably a little bitcloser.
To that, but I was like, play alittle more dangle and but at
the end of the day though learna lot from him and and have
remained friends with him.
I keep in touch with my caravan,so it's, it's, it's really been
(07:27):
it's been great.
I mean, the brown memories.
You know, our, our memories of alifetime, just the best.
Right.
And it's true with the passionthing.
Like Dom's taking all theseyoung guys, you know, just
filled with energy and justencouraging that.
So, you know, it was high energywhen I got there as a freshman,
I was like, holy cow, you know,it was great.
High energy on the field, highenergy off the field.
(07:49):
Energy everywhere.
It was endless.
Hey, Jeremy, you know, I mean,you, you basically have been.
You know, I, I, I always thinkabout like, I don't think your
brain ever turns off fromlacrosse.
Like, you just seem like you'realways thinking the game and
that's always the way you'vebeen.
But I'm wondering, you know,you, you kind of been a lifelong
coach and teacher of the game.
(08:11):
What, I always think like everycoach you're with kind of
influences your style a littlebit.
So when you think about thosecoaches, how do you think those
guys impacted you as you movedon to your?
Yeah, well, I mean, I'd say withDom, it was just, I mean, he
really I, I, what I learned fromDom, so, so much of what I
(08:34):
learned from Dom was about,about how to kind of just sort
of run a program with that kindof passion and dedication.
His work ethic was unparalleled.
His recruiting was incredible.
The way he evaluated playerstoo, I would always learn from
Dom the way that he.
He was always looking forsomething really special in a
player, and he knew it could bedifferent.
(08:54):
And he would see somethingspecial and athletic, and he
would look for that player thathe could develop.
And it wasn't always just pureathleticism.
I mean, it had to do with, like,you know, a presence to that
player, or something that theydid really, something they did
better than anybody else.
And it was a really interestingway of kind of looking at it.
You know, thinking back tohoops, I mean, the way that That
(09:15):
Paul Hooper was able to likecreate a relationship with an
individual player and findsomething that that player Could
really be be excellent at andspecial with he would come up to
me like hey three Three he wouldcall you by your number.
He'd be like hey three I gotlike what do you got hoops?
He'd be like, you know, trythis, you know, try posting up
and then just sort of like Youknow, think about shooting a
(09:38):
backhand and slide it off the,slide it off the side of your
stick.
And he's like, but don't tellDom I told you that.
Right.
Right.
Right.
You know, and, Was he the onewho told you to fake the shot?
You faked a couple shots, likefaked them behind the back, and
then you ran around and scored acouple times.
I came up with that littlebehind the back fake in a, in a
(10:01):
tight one on one setup that wewere doing one day against Greg
Starkins on the roof.
Yeah.
And this was like, I was justgood there and Starkins like
turn around and I was like, ha,I'm just like, it's pretty
funny.
But that happened in the Cordellgame.
I think when I was a freshman,you did that.
And I remember being like,Jamie, it didn't work, move the
ball.
(10:21):
And you waited a little longerand everyone was looking around
the field.
No one knew where the ball was.
It went forever.
And then finally your defensemanlooked and you ran around and
scored.
It was whole.
Do you remember that?
That was hilarious.
It was called John.
Yeah.
We just kind of like pretend youdon't have to take a step.
Like you're a little bit tipsy,but that was hilarious.
(10:42):
So Jamie, that's like, move theball.
And he's like, no, no, I didn'tdo the drunk step yet.
All right, Neil, enough, Jamie,Neil, enough, Jamie, next up is
the great Nick Tin.
And then getting through that,getting over that adversity.
I know you're starting to writea book about your experience.
(11:05):
I'm sure it's not just aboutthat experience, but that's kind
of a keystone of it.
So tell us a little bit aboutthat time after Carolina, and
then what got you out toCalifornia?
Well, the book is done.
Oh wow.
I just, you know, we,congratulations.
Last, we're on our last bit ofediting and stuff.
I just had a, a meeting actuallybefore this.
We've got, the book has beenturned down by 72 publishers.
(11:27):
Our, it's just, it, we're not abig four sport.
There's, they don't see enoughaudience for it.
And that's the story of my lifegetting shut down and getting
rejected and stuff like that.
But this book's gonna be verysuccessful.
It's, it's, there you go.
You're not gonna take no for ananswer.
Right.
Oh, I love it.
I'm actually gonna take allthose rejections., I told the
literary agents to send me allthe rejections.
I wanna read'em and I wanna put'em in the book.
(11:48):
'cause when it, when it is, whenit is successful, that's
awesome.
And that's, but that's how I'mright.
You tell me I'm too small.
I'm gonna three be wrong.
That's, it's just like, like Mosome people would be crushed by
that.
Like, I was laughing on the Zoomcall today.
I was like, I was like, this isgreat.
This is exactly what the book'sabout.
It's about right.
Becoming adversity and I I Ilove that.
(12:09):
Right.
That's great.
So, so going back to college I,I graduated with a
communications degree, still notknowing what I want to do in my
life.
And I actually stayed for anextra semester.
The extra semester I get a callfrom a buddy at my from home.
Telling me one of my bestfriends was shot and killed.
Oh gosh.
(12:30):
Sorry man.
That just, wow.
So Sean killed up in Albany, NewYork.
So I graduated, not really, Idon't know, in a, in a, in a
rough way.
I, I got a happy dose of realityin real life.
Right, right.
You know, entering the realworld.
So that happened I wasgraduating, so I had to fly home
(12:54):
and bury my best friend and thenfly back and, you know, get my
diploma.
Mm-hmm.
And then, and then a month lateryou know, will, will, will
Barrow was another good friend.
And that happened a month later.
Oh gosh.
Yeah.
So I buried two really goodfriends within a month's time.
Mm-hmm.
(13:15):
Yeah.
And yeah, so that was the, theheavy, heavy dose of real life.
And, you know, it put me, andI'm not, I look back at this,
I'm not really proud of it, butgetting, you know, I, I got to a
really dark place you know,doing things out of my
character.
Mm-hmm.
I lost my way.
(13:35):
I I kind of escaped throughdrinking and, and other forms of
numbing the pain.
Mm-hmm.
So I was, I was completely lost.
I was working dead end jobs.
Again, it's a gift and a cursefor handling adversity.
Right.
You use your alumni.
Network to get into the realworld and jobs and work up the
(13:56):
corporate ladder, whatever youwant to do.
And I, my, my, my dad's acarpenter by trade, and my mom
was a teacher, so I didn't comefrom a lot of money.
So I wanted to be kind of thebreadwinner.
I wanted to make a lot of moneyyou know, be in the corporate
world, be in finance, whateverit may be in Manhattan.
And you know, I had all thesenetworks that were willing to
help me out.
They knew what I was goingthrough.
They were willing to help meout.
And I turned'em down because Itold'em I wanted to do it
(14:18):
myself.
I wanted to do it on my own.
I didn't take, I didn't takehand me outs.
Now, being in the businessworld, knowing about that, this,
this world is all aboutnetworking, right, right.
Yeah.
So, yeah, so I took a dead endjob selling car insurance at
Geico.
I worked a couple jobs.
Yeah.
So it, it just, it was a time inmy life that I don't like to
talk about.
It was just, it was a darkplace.
(14:40):
I dug, I dug a hole so deep, youknow, that, you know, it was, it
was.
The only way to climb out was tostart over.
Right.
So I decided to, I, I came homeone night and I was disappointed
in what I was doing.
And I told my, it was actuallymy sister.
I told my sister that I had toget out here.
(15:00):
I'm gonna go to California,which is the furthest place away
from New York.
Right.
Leaving three months.
And she said, go, you need tojust go and start over.
So that's, that's what I did.
I I saved a, a little bit ofmoney for the next three months,
and then I drove.
And did you have like anyconnection to California?
No, I had nobody out there.
I don't, I didn't, I mean, Ifound, I found people once I was
(15:20):
out that I didn't even know wereout there.
But yeah.
That's great.
I joined Cross Country withthree other buddies and we
started, it just started over.
That's amazing.
Well, Nick, man, I, I you know,I'm so grateful for you sharing
what you shared.
I, I really do think it'simportant for.
Young kids to understand, youknow, life can be tough and and
(15:42):
you clearly went through somereally challenging times and
it's still so raw for you allthese years later, you know?
And so appreciate you sharing itbecause again, I, I think
sometimes, especially as guysand athletes and tough guys,
we're not supposed to talkabout, you know, those, our
feelings and those things thatreally impacted us.
But I think, you know, there'sso many people who struggle in
(16:05):
different ways in their life andhaving people who have
accomplished what you'veaccomplished despite all of it
you know, it's, it's a, it's animportant story to tell.
So right.
And then I think it probably,it's not easy than I appreciate,
right?
It's got really tough and, butI'm sure it adds such another
layer to your experience thatyou can share with these kids,
right?
That it just makes you that muchstronger.
(16:26):
I mean, it's, really amazing.
But go ahead Ron.
I'm, I'm cutting you off.
When you're ready to give yournext question.
Well, not only that, you cut meoff when I was trying to tell
Nick at a very emotional momentin our, in our Ron LAX history,
just trying to be positive here,Jay.
Good lord.
Yeah.
But anyway, Nick, thanks forsharing that, man.
(16:47):
Really appreciate it.
Well, I, I didn't, I didn'tshare it for so long.
I, I buried it Yeah.
A long time.
I I actually started sharing itright bef, you know, right about
when Covid hit, that's when Istarted opening up because I, I
saw these kids struggling on adeeper level than what we were,
I mean, what parents wereseeing, what teachers were
(17:07):
seeing, what coaches wereseeing.
It gave me the avenue to talk tothem on a deeper level and kind
of share my experiences, youknow, once I figured out what
was going on with them.
And a lot of kids were in verydark places right.
It's the thing I think we'retaught to like tamp all that
stuff down, right?
So it's interesting how it wascoming up to you as you're
seeing these kids go throughjust a bigger struggle than most
(17:30):
people would ever have gonethrough.
So that's, that's pretty cool.
So, so Nick, is it a, isn't itan exaggeration to say that, you
know, you, you go out toCalifornia and, and is is
finding physical training andlacrosse training, did that kind
of get you back, get your mojoback in terms of things you
(17:51):
loved and now you were sharingthings you loved with other
people?
You know, what role did thatplay in kind of your rebirth, so
to speak?
It, it did eventually when Ifirst moved out, I just needed
to find a job and pay for rent.
Yeah.
Right, right.
So I actually, I moved toCalifornia and the, the story
goes like this.
I I got, I took a job sellingsolar panels, door to door
(18:14):
canvassing doors.
Lacrosse was in the rear viewmirror for me.
I never thought I would pick upa stick again, to be honest.
Wow.
I was so burnt out after collegethen that happened and I was
just, you know, I didn't thinkabout it.
I just thought about what'snext.
And yeah, I was too busyclimbing my way outta the hole
that I dug for myself.
So it really wasn't, wasn'tthere.
(18:35):
But I canvass at her house andI, I thank this lady for yelling
at me this close to my face.
She, you know, stoppedsoliciting at my door and like,
yell, I mean, cursing.
Every curse word came outta ofher mouth.
And I sat across.
So she finally left, and then Iwent across the street and sat
down.
I was like, I don't want to dothis right.
I don't wanna do this.
So I call my mom and I go, mom,I, I'm gonna quit this job.
(18:58):
And, you know, she's obviouslyhas more wisdom than I do at
that age.
And she told me, don't quituntil you find another job.
I call my other buddy and he islike, we're drinking Corona's on
the beach in Huntington Beach.
And I go, yep, I'm quitting.
So I hand my clipboard to theguy, I go, I go drink on the
beach in, in Huntington Beach,California.
And I wake up on, you know, onthe weekend and Monday comes
(19:21):
around, I'm jobless and I gotall these bills to pay and I'm
like, I'm screwed.
So I, I I hired a headhunter,got me a couple of corporate
interviews.
And this is where this comesback full circle as I'm sitting
in the interview.
And at this time I actuallyinterviewed for a job in
Manhattan that I got.
It was nine interviews long.
It was for like a financialadvising.
And I got the job out 300applicants.
(19:42):
It was like three people got gotasked to, to come on board and I
turned it out because I wasgonna California.
But I just, I was in acompetitive mode of like seeing
if I can get this high end job.
So I was really good atinterviewing.
I, I knew what to tell people,what they wanted to hear, and so
on and so forth.
So I was at this Fortune 500company and the last question
she asked, she goes, where doyou see yourself in five to 10
(20:04):
years?
And I, I sat there for a minuteand I thought, I really thought
about it on the beach drinkingCoronas.
Holy kidding.
And so I really thought aboutthe question for a second, and
I, and that's when it was kindof, that's, that was like my
aha, aha moment of like, what doI love?
What do I, I love strength andconditioning and speed because
it helped me when I, when I hadno answers, that was the only
(20:25):
answer that got me to where Iwanted to go.
So I got my strength andconditioning.
So she asked me, where do yousee yourself in five to 10
years?
And I go, and, you know, theanswer is I see myself climbing
up the corporate ladder, being amanager, a leader of a team,
and, and you know, whatever thatis for that company.
And I told her, I said, in fiveto 10 years I see myself owning
my own gym.
And she goes, okay, well it wasnice to meet, right?
(20:49):
My head hunter calls me andgoes, what the, what are you
whatcha doing?
I go, I found out what I wannado.
I'm gonna get, I'm gonna go getmy strength and conditioning
certifications.
I'm gonna get my speed.
And I really, my, my gift wasspeed change direction, stuff
like that.
So I really want to dive intothe speed world, and that's what
I did.
So I I went to the first gymthat I applied to.
(21:10):
I went into it in, in like ameetup with them, and they hired
me on the spot.
They didn't hire me because Ihad my strength and speed
certification.
That was one that was, you know,it's a cherry on top, but my
resume read All America UNC,lacrosse.
Lacrosse, lacrosse.
So they're like, we have a bunchof lacrosse athletes that need a
lacrosse specific trainer.
I was like, I don't, I don't dothat.
(21:31):
I, and they're like, wellthat's, that's, that's your
resume and that's what we needyou for.
So if you don't wanna do that,then we don't have a job for
you.
So I I took it and startedcoaching both boys and girls
lacrosse.
And then That's funny.
That's kind of when I, you know,the, I, I talk about this.
You couldn't get away from it.
You couldn't get away from it.
It, it came after you.
I got away, I got away for itfor six years, but it came back
(21:53):
into my life Right.
When I needed it.
I, I, right, right.
Tend to tell people, you know,like we call it the medicine
game and yeah, I never reallypaid attention to that or
understood that, but I 100%believe that it was the perfect
antidote for me at that time.
Right.
It got me back, it got a stickback in my hand.
I was making$10 an hour.
I was eating subway for lunchand dinner.
(22:14):
So I was by, at the time it was$5 foot longs I was close to be.
So I would order a$5 foot longand cut it in half, you know,
have half for lunch and half fordinner.
Barely have enough gas in my carto get to and from work.
But I loved what I was doing.
I was coaching kids, I wasteaching'em speed, teach'em
strength, getting some, some youknow, some hours logging
(22:36):
strength and speed, and thendoing the lacrosse on the side
and building the lacrosse thing.
And then I start, you know,start getting these kids really
good at lacrosse.
And I'm, I'm starting to gainmomentum and then I go to a
couple games and watch.
And then I started, you know, Iwas coaching a club team.
I was coaching high school, andthen I'm like on the sideline
and I'm like getting morenervous than the kids are.
And I'm like, those butterfliesare like, I want to, I wanna
(22:57):
compete again.
I wanna play again.
MacBook Pro Microphone-3 (22:59):
He wants to play again.
He wants to compete again, butit's been a while since his UNC
days.
It's the age old question thathaunts every athlete sooner or
later, and that question is,does this old jalopy still have
gas in the tank to find out?
Tune in next week.
And now we'll tune into ourinterview with four time All
(23:19):
Star Jules Henning.
But it was all kind of like.
Me just figuring it out alongthe way and having to, yeah.
To be like, all right, like, letme, let me just try to lock in a
little bit more if this is what,you know, I kind of want to do.
That's cool.
Nice stuff.
Yeah.
And we love, you know, talkingabout the relationships, you
were talking about, you know,your dad and then your brother
(23:40):
Dylan, and then, you know,taking a look, your high school
at Columbia, you went there to10th grade and then mm-hmm.
As you, as we were saying, youwent to Seton Hall after that.
But looking at the stat sheet,you know, you had, they have all
the stats on there for ColumbiaHigh School, like every year.
So I could see, like when you'rein 10th grade, I.
You had like a few more pointsthan your brother Dylan, but he
(24:00):
did have a few more goals.
So, but I was thinking that musthave been so cool to play with
your brother.
I have a younger brother, but hekind of was like a maybe a year
behind where he wasn't as good.
He wasn't gonna play in the samemidfield as me.
I was a midfielder.
But tell us about that.
That must have been awesome tobe playing and at, at this
stage, you're really gettingcompetitive with it playing with
your older brother there atColumbia High School and looked
(24:23):
like you guys had a good littleseason there.
So tell us about that.
Yeah, JI mean, you know, youkind of hit the nail on the
head.
The opportunity to, to play withyour brothers is definitely a
special one.
I, I think you, you might takeit for granted when you're, when
you're young you know, our dadwas definitely pushing us around
it and looking back on that,like that, that's such a special
experience.
But in, in the time, me and himbutted heads a ton, honestly,
(24:46):
really.
I think it started in thebackyard.
We had this like dirt court withlike tree roots grown out of it.
And my dad put up a basketballhoop.
And you could raise it higher orlower.
So we started pretty young, likeyou could put it lower and we
would just go at, go at it afterout there.
And he's got a completelydifferent build than me.
Like I'm slim.
He's, I'm six two, he's 5 8, 59.
(25:07):
But like stocky, more like aMatt Rambo type.
Yeah.
I'm skin and bones.
He's solid.
I'm more shifty, you know, we'replaying against each other.
It was always competitive andeventually I figured out like
how I could beat him.
Right.
And become like, all right, Ican't have my, my younger
brother beating me.
So, right.
Like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonnafoul the outta you.
(25:27):
So starts dropping the hammer.
Exactly.
Like I'm shaking past you.
I go for a layup and I'm justgetting like, jumped the ball.
I would, I would never have donesuch a thing, Jay, that's I, I,
oh yeah, right.
Ron.
Ron was the oldest of, he seemslike Dylan and I've had a
similar strategy.
Yeah.
Oh man.
Dylan's not here to defendhimself.
He just had a baby.
(25:48):
He was gonna be on the podcastto let everybody know, but, but
that's great.
No.
And I got, I gotta give him hisflowers though.
Like, we'll get a statement fromhim perhaps, and he'll admit
that like I, because we have agreat relationship now, and
that, that's why I want, youknow, wanted to get him on here.
He's a, he's a brilliantlacrosse mine.
He is the offensive coordinatorat Lawrenceville.
Yeah.
National championship program.
Yeah.
(26:08):
That's awesome.
When you, in high school, like Iwas more of a gifted lacrosse
player from like, the overallsense, because I worked really
hard and I was, you know, I wasshifty, but he was actually more
naturally talented than I was.
He just didn't like put in asmuch work as a player because,
you know, I just, I loved to, Iloved to work hard.
(26:30):
Like I, that was my thing when Iwas young.
Mm-hmm.
I knew I was good, but I didn'tever feel like I was the best,
but I was competitive, so I waslike, what's it gonna take for
me to, to become my best and,and beat these other guys that
are playing on the club orthey're, they're getting this
ranking or whatever.
He was, I'm always justnaturally talented and, and
bigger.
So he would just show up andhe'd be like, it's game time.
Like I'm, I'm right.
(26:50):
Get it.
And so in, when we would look atthe course of a season when I
was younger, I would be the moreproductive player.
But when mm-hmm.
To you wanted to give him theball'cause you're like, he's
just gonna go get us a goal.
He's a gamer.
He's a gamer.
Yeah.
I wasn't a gamer growing up.
I was more strategic, high iq.
Like, I'm gonna make everyonebetter.
(27:12):
And I had to develop a gamerkind of sense for, for me.
And you know, it's, it's funny'cause my dad was like, if you
could combine you two, you'd belike the best lacrosse player
ever.
It was like just, you know,figuring out things.
And he's taken more of the, thework ethic approach now as a
coach for Right film.
You know, what he does for hisguys and, and just that side of
(27:33):
things.
But he has always loved thegame.
So, you know, it's kind ofcoming together for him full
circle as a coach where.
I talk lacrosse with a decentamount of people, but like
there's only a handful of peoplethat I will actually trust,
wholeheartedly, trust theiropinion about the sport with.
And, and he's one of those guysand he wasn't always that way,
(27:53):
but he's worked himself to justunderstanding the game at such a
high level to where now I canthrow something at him and he's
gonna be able to give me solidadvice about it.
And, and so we, we bond overthat and it, we have a a solid
relationship now in that, inthat aspect.
That's great.
Despite all those hard fouls,you've, you've gotten over it,
despite the hard fouls, thecontrollers being broken and,
(28:14):
and you know, like just throwingme through a window.
Like I, a lot of stories, Imean, Jules, it doesn't sound
like you harbor any ill will.
'cause if I could summarize whatyou just said about Dylan.
Well, basically I was a betterathlete than him, and I was
smarter.
He is worked harder.
And now I kind of e listen whathe has to say about the game.
I mean, is that, have you heardthis a pretty good summary from
your brothers out there, Jules?
(28:34):
I mean, yeah.
That, that, that's a, that's apretty good summary.
And I, I would just, I wasalways like, yo, like I'm, I'm a
good player.
I'm like, dude, why don't youjust come work with me?
Like, yeah, you, you would be,you would actually be the goat
if you came and worked with me,but you want to go do this, go
do that.
It's like, all right, I'll justwork in silence.
And then we show up, shockerthat I'm, you know, the, the
better player.
And he would, he would literallyat the time be like.
(28:55):
Like, screw you, this and that.
But now he's like, no, Julesjust, he literally just worked
hard.
He didn't do anything special.
Like talented.
MacBook Pro Microphone (29:02):
Ladies and gentlemen, this is a great
time to talk about one of thebiggest myths in all of sports.
The idea that some players arejust born with talent while
others aren't the truth.
No one is born knowing how tocradle shoot dodge, or throw a
perfect pass.
Everything you see an athlete dowith a lacrosse stick.
(29:22):
They had to learn.
Think about the greatestathletes of all time.
Let's look at basketball.
Steph Curry didn't come out ofthe womb draining threes.
LeBron James wasn't born with aperfect slam dunk or jump shot.
These guys put in countlesshours of work.
If they were just naturallytalented, why would they need to
practice so much?
Why?
Because skill beats talent.
(29:44):
When talent doesn't work hard,I.
Remember that skill beatstalent.
When talent doesn't work hard,lacrosse is no different.
If you want to be great, it'snot about whether you were born
with it in quotes.
It's about how much time you'rewilling to put in your skills,
your lacrosse, iq, your mindset.
Those are all things you candevelop.
(30:05):
The difference between a goodplayer and a great player.
It's not talent.
It's who's willing to do thework, who's willing to get on
the wall, work on their weekend,break down film, and sharpen
their mind.
So if you ever thought, I'm notjust as talented as that guy,
stop it right there.
So if you ever thought, I'm notjust as talented as that guy,
(30:27):
stop right there.
Talent is just potential.
Skill is what you create througheffort and the best part, skill
has no limits.
You can get better, you canclose the gap.
You just have to be willing toput in the work.
So the question isn't, do I havetalent?
The question is, how much areyou willing to earn your skill?
(30:50):
Think about that one, folks.
Now, we'll, return to ourinterview and you'll find that
interview in progress.
I did.
Didn't work.
Say all that.
Yeah.
And, and you know, if I did, Iwould've been a better player.
So I, I appreciate him for, youknow, kind of us having those
conversations and dialogues asyou get older.
'cause when you're young, yeah,we're just in the trenches
together and, you know theseason and everything.
(31:11):
But definitely being reallycompetitive too.
Well, I get you Jules.
'cause I was a worker and it'shard to convince people like dog
who's a big talker and loves thegame and everything, who just
shows up, you know, it's likeimpossible.
So I, I get it.
Oh yeah.
Jay, I'm a grinder.
I'm a natural athlete who showedup.
I never, I thought I was anatural athlete, but I did work
hard, Ron.
I You did.
So gotta give that.
I will.
I will give you that.
(31:32):
Jay, you were a grinder.
Jay Grinder.
You were a grinder.
I'm a grinder.
I'm not sure how we got thatback to you, Jay, but George,
you'll notice.
Well, I'm just encouraging ourguests that Jay will bring it
back to him.
Quite often.
That's all right.
It's, you know, I'll let youhave it.
Hey thank you Jules.
So, you know, moving on, you,you then go to Seton Hall Prep
(31:53):
and I will give Jay props.
He does some tremendous researchfor our shows and to learn that
you were the first worker rungrinder, you were the first high
school all American.
That's kind of a cool thing, youknow, to be the first All
American ever at your highschool, and then you lead'em to
a county championship.
So first of all, why'd you moveon to Seton Hall Prep?
(32:16):
And then how did your careergrow?
And really, I'm sure it's inthose years where now you're
putting yourself in position tobe, you know, a Division one big
10 lacrosse player.
Yeah.
Honestly, the, so when we weregrowing up, the, the rec
program, right, which was theclub program originally
Maplewood.
(32:37):
They were selling, they wereselling me a dream.
Like honestly, they're greatsalesmen.
All the coaches there and, andthe, the development that they
were looking to have with us toget to the high school.
And so I bought into that.
I was like, I'm gonna go to theColumbia High School.
I'm gonna be one of the greatthat have been there.
I'm gonna break all the records.
Like that was I, and I thought abunch of my teammates were all
(32:58):
like, yeah, like, we're gonna goto Columbia, it's gonna be
great.
And eighth grade comes and allthe, my team just like leaves to
go to other schools, basicallylike all the good kids.
Hmm.
So in my mind I'm like, wow,like we just spent all this time
together growing up playing rec,we had an amazing experience.
And then eighth grade kind ofstarts to dip.
May maybe some guys don't go topuberty, some guys aren't
(33:18):
working as hard, which I thinkthat's what you see in eighth
grade.
And then ninth grade came andeveryone was gone.
But during that time, I would, Iwould play I would play up.
So I, in the summer times and inmaybe in the tournaments that we
would go to with each other.
I would be playing with theolder kids and I would, I would
be doing well and like Iwouldn't just be doing well.
(33:39):
I'd be like one of the best guysout there.
So there was always a sense ofwhen I got to Columbia that I
was gonna be a freshman onvarsity and, and make a big
impact.
And then the coach that wasthere originally, he moved on to
another school.
So they got a new coach and hekind of was a little bit more
old school.
And I, I think his rule, I knowhis rule is freshmen cannot play
(34:00):
varsity, which is, I'm a coachnow.
It's a ridiculous rule.
And I would never yeah, havethat in place.
But like, I get it, likeeveryone kind of has their own
approach.
And if it works, it works.
But we weren't good.
So like if we, if we're not agood program, like you need to
put the best players in theposition possible to help your
team succeed.
And so when I started hearingfrom my brother and some of the
(34:23):
upperclassmen, they're like,Jules, like you're not gonna be
able to play varsity.
I'm looking at these guys likethey got 10 heads.
'cause I'm like.
Let's go out to the field rightnow and let's see.
Right.
Let's see who's best player heis.
Like, I'll take you.
I'm only another guy out therethat I know who's more talented
than me.
And, and that's it.
And so I was like, I'm justgonna go to the coach's office
and I'm gonna ask him like, Idon't know why this is this kind
(34:44):
of weird gray area when we'vebeen playing together for three
or four years.
Like, I, and this doesn't makesense.
So I go in there and I asked himand, and he was like, yep, you
know, freshmen can't playvarsity.
And I was like, I'm not askingto play.
I'm asking for a tryout.
I'm asking for you to evaluatemy skillset based on where,
where I'm at right now,according to the, the rest of
the group.
(35:04):
And he was like, nah, it's justnot gonna happen.
And I was crushed, you know,like,'cause that was my, my
dream for a long time.
And I, I also thought, if youdon't play varsity as a freshman
at Columbia, like how am I evergonna play at the next level was
also my mindset.
And I kind of, you know, I tookthat in stride and I flipped
this switch and I was like,okay, I'm playing freshman
lacrosse for a team that, youknow, with 90% of kids that have
(35:25):
never played lacrosse before.
Because all my rest of myteammates left and I made the
most of the experience.
I got to play jv, we won the JVchampionship, you know, like MVP
of the JV championship,whatever.
And so that gave me, you know,some, some sense of like
confidence, belief in myself.
I see what I can do, even thoughmaybe the coach doesn't see it.
Even if he does, he doesn'tcare.
(35:46):
He is got rules, whatever.
But the next year comes and hestarts to like, honestly pick on
me and bully me.
Which again, crazy thing to doas a coach now is, is someone
working with young men andwomen.
He would just be saying thingsthat were just completely off,
off base.
And I would just kind of have totake it on the chin.
(36:08):
And I, you know, eventually my,I wouldn't talk about it'cause I
was just like, whatever.
But my brother would, wouldbring it home to my dad and then
my dad would catch wind of it.
And then my dad, you know, like.
He's a big guy.
He's not, he's not scaredanyone.
He goes up to the coach and heis like, yeah, you got something
to say about my son.
Like, I'm happy for you to tellme about it and let's talk about
(36:28):
it.
He didn't like that.
He was definitely afraid of, ofthat conversation.
And so my brother and I werethere, my brother graduates.
I'm like, I'm not staying here.
Like, there's no way I'm stayingat this school.
Right.
And then that's, that's whatbrought me to Scene Hall.
And ironically one of the kids Ihad left the program, he, once
people started to catch windthat like, what was going on?
(36:48):
Like this coach was doing this,and then they were like, Jules
is leaving.
Everyone's like, that's crazythat this is going on, but like,
gotta get him to C Hall.
Don't let him go to, you know,there's like a bunch of
parochial schools.
And so I had a friend and he, hewas vouching for me.
And then that coach was thecoach of, that we're based in
counties in New Jersey.
So they'd have these countytryouts and the coach of our
(37:12):
county tri, like tryout was the,the seed hall varsity head
coach.
So I go there and then like hesees me, gets to meet me in
person, you know, I'm the best,best player on that county team.
And so that it became like a nobrainer that he was like, I
don't understand what's going onhere, but come one, come all
happy to Right.
Pick you on.
Yeah.
And so I, you know, I'm forevergrateful for, for him to do that
(37:35):
to, you know, to see in me likea, another coach could have been
like, oh, you're a problem.
You're this, you're that.
But, but he took me at facevalue from the tryout, from the
in, you know, the conversationsthat we had and then you know,
had a, a crazy experience at, atc Hall, like I got there.
And they, they weren't very goodat that point, right?
When you first got there?
(37:55):
No, it's, so the, the weirdthing was they had some
tradition at the school and notas much as I thought there was
more tradition.
'cause it had some programs inthe past.
Coach Deco was coached them to astate championship in 2004.
So I knew there was sometradition.
I knew they had division oneplayers.
But when I got there, like wehad won in the off season in the
(38:18):
winter tournament and you know,I, I was a part of that.
I was, you know, guys started tolearn about me, what am I
bringing to the table?
I'm building relationships withthese guys.
Then the season starts and wejust, we are two and eight
because I have to sit out forthe first 10 games of the season
'cause of transfer.
Oh really?
Yeah.
Transfer rule.
(38:39):
Yeah.
And, and so I'm sitting thereand I'm like, I can't believe I
just transferred to this schooland I had a better record at
Columbia with a bunch of kidswho just we're just playing
lacrosse.
You know, granted, like,honestly, the schedules weren't
that much different either.
And, but we had talent.
So I was like, okay, again, Igotta figure out what, what can
I do to make an impact, apositive impact.
(39:01):
I gotta make the most of this.
And then I started playing andlike, honestly, they just needed
someone to, to reel it in alittle bit and be the
quarterback.
And I, that speaks to like howimportant that.
That role really is, and theyjust happen to not really have
that on the team.
Mm-hmm.
And so it kind of just workedout with some synergy there that
I came in, I slotted in, youknow, first game we win and
(39:23):
like, everyone's like, wow.
Like that felt so muchdifferent.
And then all of a sudden we, wego on this 10 game winning
streak.
We, we beat Del Barr in theirranked number one in the country
by inside lacrosse.
Wow.
Won the county championship.
We lost in the finals to DonBosco.
Incredible.
Don Bosco.
Oh man.
Yeah.
But it was kind of a Cinderellastory thing where we went from
two and eight to 11 and nine,like didn't lose until the state
(39:44):
championship.
And Wow.
The following year the coach islike, Hey, like you're a captain
now.
Which like, you know, I was atransfer.
No one knew who I was.
I didn't play.
And then all of a sudden I'm acaptain.
So it's again, speaks to likehim as a, just as a coach, as a
man for giving me thatopportunity.
I would not be here if he didn'tdo that.
And that was, that was just howit worked out.
So really.
(40:05):
It always felt like I had a lotof belief in myself.
But my circumstances justweren't really the best for me
and for all intents andpurposes.
But I didn't ever let that like,define my experience.
Like I was always like, what canI do to control and do the best
I can?
Whether it was on the freshmanteam, whether it's on sophomore
where the coach doesn't evenwant me to be there, I'm on an a
(40:25):
team that's two and eight.
Like I was always just kind oftrying to write my own story and
eventually, you know, the storystarted to to work out for me.
That's great.
Good stuff.
And, and a little bit of thatresearch that came up that you
weren't a ranked recruit.
I guess the way things were doneat that stage, Ron and I, there
was wasn't much of a ranking.
People might have had somerumors, but there was, there was
(40:47):
nothing published.
But then you go into their r torts, Jay would've had himself
high in the rankings.
Oh yeah.
Just so you know.
He would've, the rumor wa therumor was I was very high in
ranking actually.
That's great.
That's, that's all he wanted tosay, Jules.
That's why you brought thatwhole thing up as long as you
earned it, Jay, you know,that's, that's what I respect.
Exactly, Jules.
Lots of hard work.
(41:08):
But you know, there you are atSeton Hall, you become a leader
there.
And then same thing at Rutgers,you're a two time captain, so by
the time you're a junior, you'reone of the leaders on the team.
And then by the time you're asenior, you're one of the best
attacker in the whole country.
So just awesome stuff there.
So tell us, tell us about thatjourney there at Rutgers with
the Scarlet Knights.
MacBook Pro Microphone-2 (41:29):
Uh, yes.
What a journey it was.
To hear all about it.
That is how Jules Denberg,metaphorically speaking, wrote a
powerful steed, dressed as ascarlet night onto victory.
Tune in next week, my friends.
Until we meet again.
Here's to hoping you find thetwine.
(41:50):
We're signing off here at theget the lax scoop.
Thanks again so much.
We will see you the next time.
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