April 30, 2025 • 46 mins
In this episode of 'Get the Lax Scoop,' hosts Big Dog and Jaybird dive into the world of lacrosse, discussing the personal journeys and professional insights of some of the game’s most influential figures. Sponsored by Jay McMahon Lacrosse (JML), the episode features compelling interviews with Jamie Munro, Nick Tintle, and Jules Heningburg. Jamie Munro reflects on his coaching career, from Yale to building a successful program at Denver, along with his impactful recruiting techniques. Nick Tintle shares, after not playing competitive lacrosse for 6 years, his inspirational comeback story of achieving his dream of not only playing professional lacrosse but winning an MLL championship at the age of 32. Jules Heningburg discusses his development as a player and his approach to coaching, emphasizing personal growth and skill development. The episode is filled with motivational tales, strategic insights, and a deep love for the game that will resonate with players and fans alike.
00:00 Introduction to Get the Lax Scoop
00:23 Meet the Hosts and Special Guests
00:59 Welcome and Compilation Overview
01:41 Interview with Jamie Munro
02:09 Neil's Journey and Playing Style
06:27 Jamie's Coaching Career
15:10 Nick T's Lacrosse Journey
24:27 Overcoming Injury: The Hamstring Strain
25:04 The Wrist Injury: A Setback Before Playoffs
26:34 The Emotional Toll of Watching from the Sidelines
27:16 A Roller Coaster Season: 2018
29:42 The Championship Victory and Its Significance
31:51 Reflecting on the Journey and Future Aspirations
32:30 Jules Heningburg's College Lacrosse Journey
43:26 The Importance of Personal Development in Lacrosse
44:22 The Role of Coaching in Player Development
46:16 Final Thoughts and Farewell
NEW BOOK!
Inside the Recruiting Game: Insights From College Lacrosse Coaches
-Available on Amazon.com as an Ebook and paperback
Links to training videos:
Master The 5 Best Dodges From the Wing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_7LDOcQQ6Q&t=88s
Blazing Shots... on the Run!
https://youtu.be/XiptPlM63oQ
Check us out...
On YouTube @jaymcmahonlax23
On Instagram @jaymcmahonlax23
On Facebook @: facebook.com/jmcmahonlax23. Page name: Jay McMahon Lacrosse
Jules Heningburg: https://thelaxlab.com/
Check out!... Coach Tintle's Lacrosse Barn:
https://g.co/kgs/eXedCXf
SuccessHotline with Dr. Rob Gilbert on Ironclad & Apple Podcasts
Brian Cain Daily Dominator on Apple Podcasts
Lacrosse Charities Mentioned in S2 E36:
https://www.4thefuturefoundation.org/
https://www.harlemlacrosse.org/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
It's time for Get the LackScoop, a podcast bringing you
all the people and stuff youshould know in the game of
lacrosse.
We take lack seriously, butourselves, not so much.
Join host Big Dog and Jaybirdand the biggest names in the
game brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training.
(00:23):
Ron Doglish, the big dog, was acollegiate football and lacrosse
player at Brown.
He was also an assistantlacrosse coach and the executive
director of the SportsFoundation.
And Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, athree time All American
midfielder at Brown.
He was the captain of the U.
S.
Junior National Team and is thefounder of JML.
(00:43):
And Joining us in the studio,Steve Grisolfi, who's collegiate
lacrosse career statisticsequals one goal against
Dartmouth brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training, helping the
next generation of lacrosseplayers get to the next level.
Hello everyone.
Welcome back to the show and forthose who are new to get the
(01:04):
lack scoop, a very warm welcometo you as well.
As many of our listeners know,we love our compilations that's
because it really hammers homesome of the best portions of our
previous quarters interviews.
And the first quarter of 2025 isno different.
We had three of the top skillstrainers in the entire country
(01:24):
on our show.
Jamie Monroe, out of Denver,Colorado.
Nick Tinel, out of Dallas,Texas, and Jules Berg out of the
great state of New Jersey.
The wide breadth of thesetrainers approach mirrors their
wide geographic reach, the reachof the game we all love.
We'll start off this compilationwith Jamie Monroe, brother
(01:44):
Neil's remarks.
And let it roll from there.
We sure hope you enjoy it and ifyou do, please subscribe to the
show and leave a review.
As they say, it don't costnothing and it sure would help
us out.
You will find our interview inprogress.
All right, Neil, enough, Jamie,Neil, enough, Jamie, let's get,
(02:07):
let's, let's get to you.
All right.
As I mentioned, I, you know, oneof the fun things about this
podcast is like, you know, youknow, guys forever, you play
with them, but it's not likeyou're really asked these kinds
of questions.
So, you know, thinking back oflike you being that we talked
about you being, you know, ateam defensive and offensive
MVP, how, how did you becomethat player?
(02:31):
You know, not every attack mangrows up wanting to ride their
ass off and pick up crazy, everyloose ball in the offensive end.
But you know, those of us whoknow the game know if you give,
especially the of offenses, youplayed with a few extra
possessions, a game, you'regonna win a lot of games that
come from those plays.
(02:51):
So anyway, I'm just wondering,like, how did you become that
kind of player that reallydistinguished your style, the
way you played?
Yeah, I think it happenedfreshman year in my first game,
a couple of us at the end of thebench were joking that I could
have probably still had my jeanson under my sweats because Dom
didn't even look my way.
(03:12):
And when you looked at theattackman that we had, you know,
towers in the middies with lowand obviously the other way
around and UJ, I realized that Ihad to find a way to make a
mark.
And.
I don't know if you guysremember, but I started getting
some opportunities on the wingsof the face off and I picked up
a couple of GBs there and Istarted getting a little bit
(03:33):
more time.
And as I started getting a fewmore and scrapping and hustling,
I started getting a couple ofmidday shifts.
And so when I became a sophomoreand it was me, Andy and Darren,
two future Ivy league players ofthe year and first team, all
Americans and nothing againstthose guys, but if it's not, you
know, in their advantage on thatGB, they're not really going for
it.
You know, 60, 40 for the otherguy.
(03:54):
Yeah.
We'll chase that one down later.
Right.
So I had to figure out my niche.
Right.
And then when Andy moved tomidfield.
And I get Oliver, I'm notpicking on Oliver either, but I
got a better shot of gettingthat ball than him.
So it was a little bit knowingmy personnel and then Jay, I'm
going to pick on you because youguys got pretty used to having
me get in the hole.
I remember many times seeing yougo, Neil.
(04:16):
You got this.
Get back there.
And so it's just, it was thisself perpetuating thing, but I
just started to love it.
You know, you look at theseVirginia teams that Lars has.
They ride the shit out of theball.
And I was kind of like thatearly guy who was just like, I
am going to go a hundred and 10from when the ball's down until
(04:38):
either I have to get back in thehole for Jay or Andy, or until
they have it on the other side.
So the only thing I think aboutis why Dom at that point, wasn't
like this shy should be a D midior an LSM.
I don't know why he kept me onattack.
That's probably the questionreally.
That we got to kind of figure itout.
It was working.
You had plenty of goals, plentyof assists.
(05:00):
No doubt.
But it was, I loved it, man.
We had the best time playingdown there and, and scrapping
that hard to get an extra.
I mean, you put the ball inDarren stick one more time.
You probably get another shotyourself.
You know, it's, it's all worthit.
There's definitely some rewardsfor the effort.
I was going to say, Neil, I meanyou know, What you're talking
about to me and knowing thatteam is the importance of
(05:23):
understanding how you can fill arole and make a huge
contribution.
Cause if I was answering thatlast question, I'd probably say,
because you became a hell of afinisher, you know, as, as
you're mentioning, there's a lotof guys on that offense who are
going to draw attention, but youfricking play.
And I remember a lot of times,you know, you're on the end of
(05:44):
some of those multiple slidesequences.
And you got to finish, you know,and so you, you became an engine
of both starting the offense, Ithink with your riding and your
ground balls.
And then obviously you were onthe, you were on the receiving
end of a lot of those, you know,assists.
So, yeah, no, you know, and Iactually attribute a lot to
(06:04):
hoops.
He would always be like one.
Get over here.
He's like, you got to startcontributing a little bit more,
right?
20 points for an attackman isnot enough.
Here's what I want you to do,right?
You would be like just gettingin my ear, but in such a, you
know, authentic hoops way whereit was more of just like, you're
going to be better and I'm justhelping you get there.
He wasn't putting you down oranything.
It was really incredible.
(06:26):
Right.
That's great.
Now, Jamie, as we were reviewingin the opening, you were an
assistant there at Yale and yoursuccess in that position for
nine years then led to youbecoming the first head coach
out there at Denver in thesummer of 98.
So tell us what that experiencewas like, you know, taking this
club program then, you know,eventually to a playoff team,
multiple times hitting the NCAAtournament.
(06:49):
So tell us what that was like.
It was really exciting.
I really wanted to be a divisionone coach and it was at the time
there was not as many programsand it was very it was very hard
to become a division.
And I really only got the jobbecause everybody else turned it
down.
So I was pretty happy aboutthat.
And you know, it was actuallydivision two.
But it was like a club.
(07:09):
I mean, there was, there wasvery few resources.
Our, our office was like, therewas Tier A sports and Tier B
sports.
And we were a Tier B sport.
And the Tier B sports were like,in this like old dining hall.
It was like a ghost dining hall.
And I shared with my, with myassistant at the time, but I
didn't care at all.
All I really wanted to do wasjust build a program and it was
(07:32):
an amazing opportunity.
And I, Just recruited as if Iwas, you know, going to be
winning national championshipsand just and it was just an
amazing learning experience.
I mean, it's kind of crazy.
It's like being, it's like beinga first time parent, though, you
know, you're just like crazyabout about everything and in a
good way and in a great learningway.
(07:54):
So.
It really, I've always been kindof a student of the game.
I learned a lot when I was atYale.
Mike Waldvogel was an incrediblementor for me and I learned a
ton.
And so I was able to sort ofcontinue the learning process.
But now as a head coach, you'relike, you got to deal with
literally everything fromrecruiting.
I mean, our budget was so small.
It was how small we talk.
I had to fundraise.
(08:15):
I mean, I probably fundraised 10million in 11 years.
Including like scholarships,including like literally
everything because we justweren't getting handed it, but
we, but the more we started tohave some success and the more
we were able to get people tochip in financially, you know,
it just helped us build thewhole program.
And so I really got intorecruiting Canadians, which was
(08:37):
an interesting thing.
So, cause I just startedrealizing that, you know, I
wasn't going to be able tocompete with the, with the
Virginians of the world.
Those levels of recruits, but Icould get these junior a players
and it really turned me on.
I'd played a little bit of boxacross.
You'd mentioned that, but it washard to do with coaching, but I
didn't know the value of it as aplayer.
And then when I startedrecruiting it, I just was kind
(08:57):
of blown away.
So now were those guys like incollege, the junior guys?
So they're like with the juniora players already in college
because I know they come in alittle older right when they
come to it back then becauserecruiting in general was older.
These Canadians were older.
The best kids in junior a were21.
So, I mean, I had like JeffSnyder was like a 22 year old
freshman.
Wow.
And I had a, I had a lot ofthose guys, so, so they hadn't
(09:19):
gone to college before,although, say what?
So they hadn't gone to collegebefore?
They were playing Junior a,yeah.
Yeah.
A lot of'em were hockey guys orthey were just like, you know,
they working at, you know, TommyTomato, Tommy Tomato, or
whatever.
I mean, just like waitingtables.
I mean, they were just gonna befiremen or whatever.
Oh, I gotcha.
Jeff Snyder, but you know,that's where I recruited Brownie
(09:42):
and I kind of got, you know,Matt Brown was actually, I got
an email from Matt Brown.
That was on one of yourquestions, Matt Brown is the
current head coach at Denvernow.
And I got an email from this guyand it was in the early days of
email, to be honest with you, itwas like maybe one of the first
emails I ever opened.
I mean, it was like a thousandor something like that.
And he was like, yeah, I'm fromBurnaby, British Columbia.
I'm a 17 year old.
(10:02):
I led the, I led the BCLA in hattricks this year and, you know,
and I started looking it up andI was like, wow, this kid looks
like he could be pretty good.
And I went up, did a home visit,actually got a ski day in at
Whistler as well.
Yeah, that was pretty littlebenefit.
But and and then I got apipeline into into Burnaby,
(10:23):
British Columbia.
And that was like, at the timethey were the best program in
British Columbia.
They won a lot of mental cups.
It was just the junior nationalchampionship.
And we had a bunch of kids tocome through from, from Burnaby.
And so, yeah, it was, it wasobviously an amazing experience
and we.
We built a good program.
That's cool.
And then was Hilgey your firstassistant?
Yeah.
Peter, the guy, the guy who wasat McDonough is at McDonough.
(10:48):
Peter Hilgar was his youngestbrother played at Maryland.
It was my assistant for thefirst three years.
I got you.
Oh yeah.
You know, you, you mentionedMatt Brown, Jamie, and I think
one of the, the other, likethings that, that to me.
You can tell a great coach whenhe's hired great assistants.
It's like the coaching treething.
So obviously right now you gotMatt Brown.
(11:10):
He just mentioned recruiting,you know, as the head coach out
at Denver now.
And I think Matt went on to beon your staff as well.
And then you got John Torpy whowere obviously all very
interested in the new, new coachat Brown, who I think was also
on your staff.
So.
Talk about those two guys andhow, you know, how rewarding
(11:31):
it's been to see them becomehead coaches and maybe
particularly coach Torpy, youknow, and and what you think of
him taking over your alma mater.
I love it.
Torp and I worked together forfive years.
So he was 2005 through, whichwas Brownie's senior year,
through 2009.
John Torpey is an incredibleguy.
But you'll, you'll never meet amore personable person in your
(11:53):
life.
He's like, he, he can relate toanybody.
He's absolutely hysterical, buthe's also maybe the most driven,
hardworking, and not justhardworking.
There's a lot of people thatwork hard.
This dude, this guy is soproductive.
It's insane how much this guygets done.
I'm telling you like he'll getmore done before 10 a.
m.
on a Monday morning than mostpeople get done in a week and
(12:14):
I'm not even exactly he isincredible, like I said with his
relationships with people.
He's got a really good He's gotan edge to him, but he's got a
he's he can do it in a way Thatyou still love him So like he
can be hard on you without like,you know Basically being an
asshole and it's like it'sreally it's it's a real talent
(12:35):
honestly.
And and he just He goes throughhis life with this sort of
groundedness of family and faithand his love for the game and
his love to learn and to notleave and, you know, and to be
as resourceful as, as humanlypossible to try to win.
(12:56):
But also he really cares aboutpeople.
So I think what you'll find isthat what he's going to do for
Brown is create an amazingculture.
He will bring the program back.
To where we want it to be asproblems here on this call.
And yeah, it was just an amazingexperience.
It was great to work with him.
Hey, Jamie, I'm going to chimein.
Cause he's also a completeanimal for Jamie's 40th while he
was at Denver.
(13:16):
He wanted to run a 50 K.
So the two of us signed up andtorps is like, I'm in the
corpse.
He couldn't train.
He had to train on an ellipticalfor a 31 mile race.
So we all code my starting line.
Not only does he beat us by anhour, but he goes an extra 5K.
'cause he took the wrong turn.
(13:37):
serious, not elliptical.
He, he took the wrong turnbecause he actually, we, I was
like, oh shoot, I got, I gottarock on my shoe right at the
beginning of the race.
I'm like, I, I really need totake it out for a second.
He is like, dude, I can't stop.
I'm gonna like, my, my, mycalf's gonna, you know, get, get
stiff or something.
And then he decides to try towin the race.
(13:58):
He actually went up with theleaders and was like flying
through like, he went throughthe first aid station and just
shoved like potato chips in hisface and just kept running
through the entire thing becausewe lost them in every aid
station we went to his name waslike not on it was on the first
one and then after that we neversaw him again and we were like,
(14:18):
because he tried to win the raceand he was like right behind the
leaders and then the leaders allof a sudden stopped in the
middle of the woods and werelike, yeah, I think we went the
wrong way.
Basically.
He's like, wait, what?
They went three miles out of theway, three miles back.
And then he somehow caught up tous.
Oh my God.
I was going to say, he told astory.
(14:41):
He played basketball with Jamiesomewhere.
Like he's like, you know,Jamie's like, Hey, you want to
play some pickup basketball?
It's like, next thing you know,it's 99 to 99.
We're playing by one.
We're both like, we're notgiving up.
And.
Did that really happen, Jamie?
We used to regularly play fullcourt one on one, twos and
threes to a hundred, win byfour.
(15:03):
Win by four.
By four.
It goes too fast.
Yes, yeah, of course, Jamie, ofcourse.
The game to 500.
next up is the great Nick Tin.
Tend to tell people, you know,like we call it the medicine
game and yeah, I never reallypaid attention to that or
understood that, but I 100%believe that it was the perfect
(15:25):
antidote for me at that time.
Right.
It got me back, it got a stickback in my hand.
I was making$10 an hour.
I was eating subway for lunchand dinner.
So I was by, at the time it was$5 foot longs I was close to be.
So I would order a$5 foot longand cut it in half, you know,
have half for lunch and half fordinner.
Barely have enough gas in my carto get to and from work.
(15:46):
But I loved what I was doing.
I was coaching kids, I wasteaching'em speed, teach'em
strength, and then doing thelacrosse on the side and
building the lacrosse thing.
And then I start, you know,start getting these kids really
good at lacrosse.
And I'm, I'm starting to gainmomentum and then I go to a
couple games and watch.
And then I started, you know, Iwas coaching a club team.
I was coaching high school, andthen I'm like on the sideline
and I'm like getting morenervous than the kids are.
(16:08):
And I'm like, those butterfliesare like, I want to, I wanna
compete again.
I wanna play again.
And that kind of led me back tomy, my journey back to the
professional ranks.
Yeah, that's great.
Yeah, that you're cueing usright into the next question.
This is beautiful'cause that,that was the question where we
can see in your resume where,you know, you took a break from
lacrosse you didn't playcompetitively yourself for a
(16:31):
number of years and wasn't surehow many, but I'm sure you can
tell us exactly six or eight.
But then there you are playingfor the Denver Outlaws and and
then I knew, you know, just fromlooking into some of these other
interviews that you had thiskind of burning desire'cause you
hadn't won that championship.
So, so tell us that whole story,like why you wanted to get into
it and then those first coupleyears and then you finally hit
(16:54):
pay dirt, you know, in 2018.
So, yeah, I, I mean it all cameback from coaching.
So I'm watching the kids playand I'm just getting a burn
desire to play again.
So I I was like, you know what,I'm at a gym.
I'm working out, I'm in great,great shape.
Yeah, I haven't, you know, Ididn't play competitively for
six years.
You know, the stick was in myhand a little bit for, you know,
(17:14):
so four years, didn't touch astick.
The next two years I had a stickin my hand, but I was just
coaching or a year.
And then I was like, you knowwhat, why not?
Why not just go try out?
So 2014, I tried out for theChesapeake Bay Hawks okay.
Not having any, at that time, mygoal was just to step on an MLL
field, just to step on aprofessional field and play.
(17:34):
Right?
So just get on a roster, play ina game, and that's it.
I wanted to play in one game.
I didn't even have to play aseason like that was just the,
the simple goal.
Mm-hmm.
So I worked my ass off.
I went to Chesapeake Bay Hawksat that time they had Matt
Abbott and then Reynolds, whojust played for the USA team as
D Mids.
And I knew that I was gonna be ad Middy at this point because,
you know, the offensive stuff.
(17:54):
You know, I, I don't, I didn'tsee myself competing.
I was a little rusty and stufflike that, but I knew I could
play defensive transition scoreif I had to.
So I, I went out for defensivemillion and I knew who was ahead
of me, so I didn't have highexpectations, but I was gonna
give it my best shot.
I made it to the last round oftryouts there.
Coach Coddle calls me.
He was with the s he calls me,he goes, we're gonna find you as
spot on this team.
He had a great tryout, all thisstuff.
So I made it the last round.
(18:15):
I got cut the last round.
But it, it, it was, it hard?
Yeah, it was hard, but I waslike, you know what?
I, I just proved myself afternot playing for six years
competitively.
I'm playing with some of thebest guys in the world.
I'm like, that's a pretty,that's a pretty good indication
that you can make it if youwant.
Keep pursuing this.
Right.
I went back, I went back to workand I, I didn't think about it.
But they had this LXM ProLeague.
(18:37):
In California with the XanderRitz and Max Ritz and Kyle
Harrison was in Peter Baum.
Oh yeah.
Some high level players, but itwas more of like a globe trotter
style thing.
It wasn't like a red eye in ared eye out.
It was, you know, we went topretty cool air.
Like we went to Utah, we playedin California.
We played at like really coolvenues.
And it just got me back into theswing of things like get, just
(18:59):
like, get the rust off and playhigh level lacrosse.
But it wasn't serious and it wasjust super fun.
Right.
It just, it, it made me fall inlove with the sport again.
At that time, it wasn't aboutwinning championships, it was
just about being back in that.
Locker room with the guys andplaying at a high level and
having fun with it.
I just wanted to find my desirefor it again.
And that's what kind of AlexMpro did.
(19:19):
So I was like, you know what?
I made it this far, you know,I'm in good shape.
Let me, let me go try out foranother team.
So the closest team toCalifornia is Denver Outlaws.
So they have, every year theyhave an open tryout for anyone
and everyone.
There was some 50 year olds outthere checking off bucket lists,
you know, things, right.
There was some high level likekids right outta college that
(19:39):
just wanted to, you know, didn'tget drafted but wanted to play.
Right?
So it was a mix of talent.
103 guys.
BJ O'Hara, John Cohen and TonySeman are in the middle.
They bring us in.
All the other guys not like, notstretching.
I'm stretching like a madman'cause I'm getting older.
So we, we stand around, there's103 guys and literally BJ O'Hara
goes, we're gonna be honest withyou, we're taking one or two
(20:02):
guys to camp and that's it.
So I look around, I'm like, Igotta a little hill to tie.
Wow.
But here's where I separatemyself.
It's like, this is where I knewmy role was gonna be.
I knew who was on that Denversteam.
I knew the mids, I knew who Ihad to go against.
Mm-hmm.
What was the d mids lookinglike?
So they separate I goal here,defense here, mids there,
(20:23):
defensive mids over here.
Me and four other guys, threeother guys go to the d MIDI
section.
Now I know, all right, I'mcompeting against this.
And hopefully they, they need,you know, some depth at the D
MIDI position.
So anyway, I, I show myathleticism, my ball out.
I do really, really well.
They take me and one other guythat played at Delaware and play
EmPro Pro on the.
(20:44):
And and I, that's crazy.
Well, at camp, I actually, I'mplaying and I'm kind of like,
you know, I'm the older guy atcamp, one of the older guys on
the team.
And how old were you at thispoint?
30.
Right.
So you're coming in, you're,you'd be like a rookie,
basically 30-year-old league,right?
Right.
At 30.
That's, that's amazing.
So I, I'm playing against DrewSchneider and he crosses me up
(21:06):
and I, like, I didn't wanna hurtanyone.
I, like, I, I was still like thelow man on the to pole, so I
didn't wanna, like, I wanted tobe a part of the team when I
wasn't even on the team yet,right?
Mm-hmm.
So Coach Seaman, channel.
You're allowed to crosscheck inthis fucking league.
Will you crosscheck this?
So the next time I go out, Iwrap my stick around Drew
Schneider.
I'm like, I'm apologizing tohim, but I broke my stick across
(21:28):
his back.
He flew the ball, comes out, Imake a good play, whatever.
And, and Tony, soon wass, like,that's all we're talking about.
I'm like, I ended up making thesquad, I ended up making the
team.
I had a great tryout.
I play in, and again, this ismy, my, so I, I've reached my
goal.
I'm gonna play in an MLO game.
Mm-hmm.
That first game I have to coverJimmy Bidder as an, at, like,
(21:49):
it's short stick on a, an attackman.
Great.
You won't see man.
Right.
But, but first grade assignmentfor my first game in pro.
So I'm, I'm nervous now.
I gotta guard an attack man.
I did pretty well.
We won our first game.
It was an awesome experience towalk out on in, you know, Denver
Bronco Stadium.
It was like, you're playing inan FL stadium and you know, that
(22:10):
was cool.
A year old rookie.
I didn't play for six years,whatever it may be.
And it was a cool comebackstory.
And then.
And then, then you're, thenyou're a part of the team and
you're like, all right, we wannawin.
Yeah.
We ended up losing the next twoor three games, and then I find
myself not, they didn't travelme, so they call me like, Hey,
we're gonna leave you off theroster.
We're gonna travel some otherguys and try some other guys and
try to switch this thing around.
(22:31):
Now you guys all know MLL likewould go into like college
season, and then they would,they would, they would get
college kids after theygraduated.
So they brought in MattKavanaugh and Jack Kelly and
Goal, and they brought in acouple other pieces brown team
that year that had a good run.
And all of a sudden I'm watchingfrom home and they're turning
the season around and they're,you know, everybody in the
league is.
(22:52):
Eight and eight or you know,nine and seven.
Everyone's like close.
So like it comes down to likethe last game and they were so
bad, but they fought the, sothey get the fourth seat going
into playoffs and I'm watchingat home and they win their first
playoff game.
And then they are playing in Ithink it was Kennesaw State.
They were playing Ohio machine.
And Scotty Rogers is in gold forOhio.
And Steve Walden also I playedhigh school with, is playing for
(23:14):
Ohio machine.
So I'm watching the game andthey're killing the outlaw.
They're up by like 11 goals athalftime, but then they have a
rain delay.
And the rain delay was like atwo, two and a half hour rain
delay.
Denver comes back out and clawsthe way back in and wins the
game.
Holy cow.
So, wow.
I'm sitting there at home beinglike, I was a part of a team
that just won a championship.
Now I'm like never wanted, neverwon in high school.
(23:38):
I've never won in college.
I've never wanted to pro.
It's like the only thing missingis my rent.
So I, I was like, after I gotlike, you know, I was done, I
got cut, I was like, know what?
I did it, I made it back to thepro level.
I'm good.
Like how many, right?
How many people could say as a30-year-old rookie, they made a,
a pro team?
Like, that's not, it's not areal, it's not, doesn't happen
often, right.
So, yeah, for sure.
But the problem is, is that nowI don't have a ring and I just
(24:00):
saw my team win.
So now I have a differentobsession.
Oh, I still haven't done that.
So that goes on my mirror in mybathroom win MLL title or win a
a pro title.
So I got back to work.
I didn't know if the outlawstaff was gonna call me back.
I didn't know if I was in theirfuture plans, but they had
different plans for me.
They thought they, you know,they got my feet wet year one.
(24:20):
And they invited me back to campand I pull my hamstring in Camp
Tony Seaman.
I, I thought it was over.
I thought it was done.
And Tony Seaman comes in thelocker room and goes, you gonna,
you, you gonna be all right bySaturday?
I was like, in a week, like, theonly thing I can say without
losing my job is yes, I'll beready.
So I was like, yeah, I'll beready.
Now I own the gym at this time.
(24:40):
So I have my chiropractor, so heworks on me two hours, three
hours a day to get me, geez,practice some sort of percentage
so I could at least run a littlebit.
And I play in the first game andthen play in the second game,
third game.
And you know, my hamstringstarts to heal a little bit each
time I play in the full season.
Where the best team in the MLLwe're number one seed.
We already are in playoffs.
(25:01):
It's coming down to the lastgame against Rochester Rattlers.
So this is 2017.
It's my second year in theleague.
We playing Rochester Rattlersand there's a ground ball scrum
and I get pushing behind.
I land on my wrist, I roll overmy wrist and I palm my elbows,
snapping my wrist in half.
Oh man.
I come off to the sideline and Itell the trainer, I'm like, I
snapped my wrist in half.
(25:21):
And he's like, he looked at it,he goes, seems all right to me.
I'm like, okay it up.
Play the rest of the game.
Play the rest of the game.
I knew it was bad.
We were in Rochester, we flewback.
And it was right a balloonprobably with the atmospheric
pressure change in the, in theairplane.
Totally.
I, I knew it was broken thewhole time.
So anyway, I go to see Dr.
Ol, who's our surgeon.
(25:42):
And he looks at it, he goes,yeah, he definitely broke it.
He goes, let's look at it.
I tore every ligament in mywrist.
So you know, this is rightbefore playoffs.
Now I'm, I'm obsessed withwinter ring.
We're the number one seed.
We had the best team ever, bestdoctor I've ever been a part of.
I'm right there.
And now I'm, so they sit me downand I pleaded my case.
I go, I, I told him, I was like,I will do anything to plan.
I, I was crying on the phonewith Coach Seaman.
(26:04):
He could tell you I was begging.
I was like, I'll sign a releasewaiver that, you know, you guys
are not liable for me, you know,doing any more damage.
I'll sign whatever you want.
They finally just, you know,talked to me, talked some sense,
and me like, you could lose theuse of your hand and in your
profession, that's not gonna begood.
So mm-hmm.
We sat down and then you know,we, I, I went to the first game.
(26:25):
They flew me out to the firstgame.
We played Rochester again.
We beat them.
We, we go play Ohio machine in arematch in 2017 at the Star in
Dallas.
Oh wow.
And I'm sitting on the sidelineand I can't tell you how hard
that was to sit on the sideline.
Yeah.
Watch your watching that catchyour game when all you want to
do is be a part of somethinglike that.
Right.
Probably the hard, one of thehardest things, you know,
(26:46):
besides the other things Ishared, that was the second
hardest thing in my life at thatpoint.
Mm-hmm.
And I watch'em lose, we lose bytwo or three goals or something.
It was a close game, but welost, we go in the locker room,
there's some, there's some olderguys, Matt Bley and guys like
that, that are thinking abouthanging up the cleats and.
Moving on.
And I, I'm, I'm pleading, I'mlike, one more year.
One more year, guys.
Let's, let's run it back onemore year.
(27:06):
We gotta get, like, you know,they just lost the game.
They're not in that mode tolisten to me asking because I
didn't play.
But guys came back, I came backfor one more year, 2018.
Now I'm 32 years old.
We're struggling all year.
We're up and down.
We're in the mix, but not, youknow, we're not the team.
We were the year before.
We're trying to figure outpieces and, and move some things
around.
We got Chris Guttier in the, inthe draft, which helped us.
(27:28):
And you know, we, we startedturning things around, but now
we're in the middle of theseason and Jack Kelly's playing
for you at team USA and he tearshis ACL.
That's our star goal.
Yeah.
So now I'm like, no.
Yeah, right.
Just lost our starting goalie.
So anyway, it wasn't as big of adeal as, as, as it may seem,
because our backup goalie wasalso Team Canada's goalie.
(27:49):
Dylan Ward.
Oh man.
Yeah.
Geez, not a bad backup.
Yeah, you can't, you can't beatthat.
Dylan Wards, you know, you know,he's got a lot of race.
He's legit.
Right.
So, anyway, long story short, Iknow I'm going far with this,
but No, this is great.
It's our last game of theseason.
Whoever wins that game gets abid to the playoffs.
(28:09):
Oh man.
Yeah.
So I have to play in that game.
So that week before I go to thesurgeon and I, I get a, a, an
X-ray and stuff, and he comes inthe room and he look at him.
I'm like, what's up?
He goes, I got good news.
Bad.
Don't, don't tell me you'reabout to tell me.
He goes, you want, you want thebitter or bad for somebody?
Just gimme the news.
He goes, your, your wrist healedfrom last year.
He goes, however, somehow youbroke it in another spot this
(28:32):
year.
Oh, okay, we're gonna have toshut you down.
And I'm like, stop.
This conversation is not gonnaleave this room.
No one from Denver Outlaws isgonna find out about this and
I'll be back on Monday orwhenever to have surgery, but
I'm not, fuck, you're notfucking telling a word.
And to say it lightly, Imight've threatened his life.
I wasn't gonna, I wasn't sittingout no matter what.
(28:52):
Right.
Just didn't tell, I didn't tellanyone on the team.
I didn't tell the coaches.
I wrapped it up a little bittighter for Atlanta Blaze.
We ended up winning.
Get into playoffs.
And this is the funny thingabout lacrosse, Atlanta Blaze.
This is where it comes fullcircle.
Atlanta Blaze was the team.
I got cut year one in 2016.
That was the last game I playedas a professional.
When I first got there, we beatthe, this, the first round of
(29:15):
playoffs was against theChesapeake Bay Hawks, I believe.
They were the number one seed.
And the team favored to wineverything.
It's the team that cut me in2016.
We ended up beating them by onegoal, or maybe even overtime,
game to get to the championshipgame.
And then we end up playing theRochester Rattlers, who I broke
my wrist against in 2017 and gotshut down.
So, geez, the, the story comesfull circle where I, where I'm
(29:38):
kind of checking these thingsoff and, and you know, it's a
storybook ending.
We end up winning in 2018.
We beat Rochester.
They beat us twice during theyear they were stacked.
My job responsibility was NedCrotty.
A toured an award winner.
Yeah.
Attacking a short, I was like,you know, I was like, that's
insane.
Don't mess this up for the team.
(29:59):
Right.
But anyway, storybook ending.
I won my championship, I got myring.
And it was just, it was one ofthe most special things I've
ever been a part of, but it wasemotionally draining and
physically draining.
How did it feel to hold thatchampionship trophy?
So that's what I'm getting do.
So I get, so we win the game,they're making the announcement,
whatever, and I'm staying withthe team.
The captains are go getting, go,getting the trophy.
And, and I'm gonna say this, theDenver Outlaws organization was
(30:20):
the best.
Best team I've ever played forBest Locker Room.
That's cool.
It was just a really tight knitgroup.
And that first game in 2016,coach Seman called me Tinkle.
So became a thing in 2018, likeget Tinkle a Ring.
'cause they all knew my storyand how much I was like putting
in this and what I needed andyou know, was trying to get
(30:40):
that.
That is great.
So get tinkle a ring, get tinkleA ring was like our motto for a
little bit.
And then so you had Eric LawDrew Schneider and Matt Bockett
as our three captains who werethe best leaders of men that
I've ever been around in, in thesport of lacrosse.
Wow.
That's cool.
They get the trophy first andthey turn around and instantly
go call me up.
They go, Tinel, and they, theygive it to me and I raise it
(31:02):
above my head and I almostdropped that shit right on my
head.
My wrist, my wrist was so, ohyeah.
And I, I, how it was, I almostliterally dropped my head.
It was just one of the best.
One of the best days of my lifeto come from what I went
through.
Right.
Work all the way back and havethis just fucking roller coaster
of a ride.
(31:23):
Right.
Physically and finally getthere.
Like I, I watched the game youknow, play back on, on, on
YouTube or whatever and I, I, Ijust go to the end'cause I
wanted to see,'cause I was onthe field, I wanted to see what
happened and so I don't reallyremember it.
And I just collapsed.
And then Matt Kavanaugh likepicks me up and hugs me.
'cause he knew how much.
But it, it, it was, that's theonly thing I was living for.
(31:43):
I was running a business, I wasdoing all this stuff, but the
only thing I needed was the ringand the trophy.
Right.
I put every ounce of energy intothat, that I could.
And now we'll tune into ourinterview with four time All
Star Jules Henning.
And, and a little bit of thatresearch that came up that you
weren't a ranked recruit.
I guess the way things were doneat that stage, Ron and I, there
(32:06):
was wasn't much of a ranking.
People might have had somerumors, but there was, there was
nothing published.
But then you go into their r torts, Jay would've had himself
high in the rankings.
Oh yeah.
Just so you know.
He would've, the rumor wa therumor was I was very high in
ranking actually.
That's great.
That's, that's all he wanted tosay, Jules.
That's why you brought thatwhole thing up as long as you
earned it, Jay, you know,that's, that's what I respect.
(32:28):
Exactly, Jules.
Lots of hard work.
But you know, there you are atSeton Hall, you become a leader
there.
And then same thing at Rutgers,you're a two time captain, so by
the time you're a junior, you'reone of the leaders on the team.
And then by the time you're asenior, you're one of the best
attacker in the whole country.
So just awesome stuff there.
So tell us, tell us about thatjourney there at Rutgers with
(32:49):
the Scarlet Knights.
Yeah.
The.
Kind of a similar situation withwith what happened at Scene
Hall, honestly, where I gotthere and we had, I got
recruited as a Big East Attackman and I wasn't ranked as a
recruit.
I think that that was, honestly,I don't think I should have been
ranked at the time, likerelative to some of the kids
(33:10):
that like were ranked it at thatmoment in time.
I think there was a couple ofkids that I was better than, but
I think once you get to like theeighties, nineties, it's like
what's the difference betweenthe 90th recruit and the hundred
20th recruit?
Like I mm-hmm.
I think that, that there's thetop 10, the top 20, and these
kids, those kids are, you know,those are legitimate lacrosse
players, a lot of them.
And I don't think I was thatgood at that time.
And so that was one aspect toit.
(33:32):
I, when I got recruited, I gotrecruited late'cause I wasn't
playing on a club program.
Mm-hmm.
And I did think a lot of it, alot of the circumstances at play
for me were just very rare.
Where I was a good player, Iwasn't the best, but I was a
very good player that justwasn't understanding of what was
going on.
Then I missed the wave ofrecruiting, so I wasn't, I
(33:52):
wasn't good enough to thendecommit one of the kids that
they had had uhhuh.
So like what year, just curious.
Would that have been, were therelike, all right, we got our
class completed.
Was that when you were done withyour 10th grade year or 11th
grade or like what year?
Hopkins filled up in 2011.
20, yeah, in 20 11, 20 12.
And I got recruited in 20 12, 2013.
(34:14):
So like I remember Shaq was thefirst verbal commit in our
class.
And then UN, I wanted to go toUNC and I remember two kids got
recruited Taman.
And so that was locked up andthat was, that was a freshman
going into sophomore summer.
And then I didn't start to eventalk to coaches until sophomore
going to Junior.
(34:35):
And that was when Rutgers wasstill in the Big East.
And so we, I got recruited asthe Big East attack man.
I find out they're going to theBig 10.
I get there, they're in the Big10 and now.
We were, they had an eight andeight season the year before.
And then the, my freshman yearwe were five and 10, and we had
given Monmouth their first everwin in program history.
(34:57):
I remember we were tight contestwith Wagner.
We, I mean, we were not, we werenot good, but we weren't far
off.
That was kind of like thing,like we would play these games
and we would lose to Virginiaand I could be like, okay, like
we lost to Virginia.
But I mean, they, we could havekind of beat them.
We just weren't all there.
Or we lose to Hopkins and wewere like, we could have beat
(35:19):
them, but like, we just kind ofmessed up at the end.
Like we just didn't have thediscipline, the whole game.
Yeah.
So I was like, again,personally, I, I just took a lot
of pride in like my experience.
I think so did a lot of the guysin our class, and I would just
throw out there and think abouthow many guys they miss when the
class is full of guys who werein that summer between their
(35:41):
ninth and 10th grade year.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, you probably developed aton.
I was a bit of a late bloomer ifyou were, I know Dylan Malloy
was.
I mean, imagine how many guysthat are, you know, they're just
missing out on, so no wonder youguys could become competitive if
they're getting kids that are,you know, a little more
developed and they can see, allright, this guy's gonna be a
legit college player.
(36:02):
So, interesting.
I, I completely agree with that.
I think that was a, a toughthing for a lot of schools, but
they're banking on how, how goodyou were, how physically
developed you were as a freshmanat 14, 15.
That's crazy.
I think, I think the, thehardest part about that is just
the mental side of it.
Like what if you get committedwhen you're 14?
(36:23):
You naturally, you, unlessyou're a real dog.
You're gonna take your foot offthe pedal.
Right.
Right.
And unless you have greatmentors around you and your
parents, and I think a lot ofparents in lacrosse is like,
Hey, you get committed.
It's, I'm cool.
It's, I think it's changing.
Mm-hmm.
But like to be like, Hey, likeyou, that's the ticket you get
committed.
That's all I I needed.
I don't need you to be a FirstTeam America when you're there.
(36:44):
I just need you to, to getthere.
Have a good experience.
So you get a great collegeeducation.
Now it's becoming reallycompetitive to where, hey, if
you're not like staying thecourse and you, you know, you
don't pan out like that'simpacting the club teams.
It's impacting the relationshipswith the coaches and how they
view the talent pool comingoutta certain areas and, and
(37:05):
those kind of kids.
And so I think we got lucky in alot of ways that, from the
recruiting stuff that we had, Imean, in my class, I think we
had four PLL players in myclass.
Wow, that's football players.
And so my sophomore year, a lotof us played our freshman year,
got great experience.
(37:26):
We lost some games, but we cameback our sophomore year.
And we were just, I mean, wewere just wanted to be great
like we really did.
I think all of us played adifferent part in that.
I personally played a part inthat on the offensive side where
I knew like, okay, coach Bretwants, wants me to be a
quarterback here.
(37:47):
Like that does, there isn'tanother guy that's significantly
like the gap between me and thenext guy.
We're kind of big.
So if I here, like, okay, likehe might not be a starter.
I'm a starter and I'm over here.
Well, can I be a starter or canI be an all-conference player?
Can I be an All American?
And if I don't keep pushingtowards that, we're gonna
(38:09):
struggle offensively.
Like if I, if I can't provideus.
The spark.
It's not like we have the nextguy behind me who's saying like,
okay, take Jules out and, andsub in and Owen Duffy.
Right.
Like, or Right, right.
You know, a, a Brady pono.
Like there's no, like next guyup.
Mm-hmm.
And that was, that was, for me,that gave me a sense of, okay,
(38:31):
my spot's kind of safe, but alsowe're in trouble if I don't
figure this out.
And, and I, I took thatpersonally and I think a lot of
the, our classmates did too.
Like we knew what we kind of alllike had this PAC sort of like
agreement, like we want Rutgersto be great.
Mm-hmm.
And you know, we kind of just,just took that and, and ran with
it.
And our sophomore year wasincredible.
(38:53):
The attack line I was on hadAdam Sherman Beatty's, NLL
player now.
Oh yeah.
And he was, he's probably alltime goal scorer, one of them
at, at Rutgers, maybe top three.
And he, was tremendous Canadiantalent.
And then Scott Vita was theoffensive player of the year,
big or big 10 player of theyear, his senior year coach,
(39:13):
offensive coordinator inMichigan.
And we were on a attack linetogether, and both of us are
professional players.
And so, right.
I was like, wow.
Like this is, if I can hold myweight to these guys we're, you
know, we're gonna be pretty goodon, off.
Yeah.
That, you know, that was, that'sawesome.
It was kind of just a, you know,I think we got, I don't know if
it's luck or like what, but Ijust looked around and I was
like, wow, we actually did havea lot of guys that were really,
(39:35):
really talented.
Whether we worked at it, whetherit was we got recruited the
right way, I, I don't know.
So it worked out.
It worked out.
And then what does coach Brecklike to play with?
So Coach Breck, like four, Iguess I should say.
He probably didn't do that muchplaying back then.
Yeah.
So co coach Breck, the, thething I, I appreciate most about
him was like, he really believedin me personally and gave me a
(39:59):
ton of confidence.
Like I'd never had someone.
Outside of my dad believe in memore than coach Rec did.
And I think that he, heinstilled that in a lot of his
players when he was recruitingyou.
Like, I brought you here for areason.
Like, I, I need, I want you, Ineed you.
I believe that you can be allBig 10, all American, a program
(40:22):
player.
Yeah.
And so I think he, I, Iappreciate that a lot and, and
how he did that.
And I think he also positionedus to maximize, like our
individual talents.
I see.
Different programs playdifferent ways, but if you have
a lot of talent, there's alittle bit more you can roll the
balls out.
And we didn't have that type oftalent, but we had it.
(40:46):
So where, you know, he, he'sempowering his, his coaches
coach Jim Mitchell is theoffensive coach at Princeton now
who, who I think is doing someof the most phenomenal work in
the country as far as offense.
Yeah.
What he's built with SoursCoulter, McAfee, and, and just
some of the.
The guys you see there, ChadPalumbo and just some of what
they're doing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The free flowing Kabiri the parasets, just the early offense,
(41:09):
the stuff that they're doing.
I took for granted that like wewere being positioned to
maximize our strengths.
Where I think I look at someother programs and I'm like,
man, you guys have excellenttalent, but these guys are not
being utilized well.
Mm-hmm.
And I, I'm pr I'm producing, butlike, who Is it more that I'm ta
(41:29):
as talented as you?
Or am I being positioned tomaximize my talent?
And that, that's something Ialways appreciated about Coach
Brecht and just the program is Ialways felt like they were
trying to put me and other guysin spots to have you shine and
Right.
And hide your deficits away.
Mm-hmm.
Kinda maximize your upside.
(41:50):
Yeah.
Yep.
And, and give you like, hey,like you're not Jules, you're
not a great outside shooter.
I need you to get there.
But like in the meantime, like,let's put you in spots where
you're gonna be able to bearound the cage and do this and
do that.
And like now you can score fouror five goals a game.
We'll hide that you're not agood outside shooter.
Eventually they'll catch on.
Can you get better at that inthe meantime And mm-hmm.
So with, with that type ofmindset from Coach Breck, is
(42:12):
that something that got youstarting to think about getting
into coaching yourself orstarting to mentor players, you
know, that kind of encouragementand also your experience with
your Seton Hall coach?
I think, honestly, I always feltcompelled to really share any,
like, information that I get.
Like maybe, maybe even to afault, like hoping that people
(42:34):
would, would buy into it orcatch on.
And the reality is some peopleare just where they're at and
that they don't, they don't wantto do the work and they don't,
they don't wanna take it asseriously as I do, which is to,
it's totally fine.
Like it's no harm, no foul.
If you're my teammate, sometimesI, I like take that personally.
But everyone's in a differentposition.
That's just, you know, kind ofjust for me, for my life.
(42:55):
But I always felt that in, insport and in lacrosse.
So if I learned something, sawsomething on film you know, had
a technique, whatever it mightbe, like, I want everyone to
have it because I'm like, Hey,if this is helping me, I know
this can help you and if you getbetter, we're gonna get better.
And so I never felt like Iwanted to, to get better in a
vacuum.
I always wanted to share in, ingetting better with other
(43:16):
people.
And I think that was kind of thestart of it for me, like my sort
of passion or purpose aroundjust being a mentor, being a
coach, being a teacher.
And then I think when I got tocollege, something that I was
hoping for more of was personaldevelopment on the field.
And you realize fast that likethere's only three coaches, I
(43:38):
think now there's more paidpositions.
But back then, like yeah, we gotan offensive coordinator trying
to have 30 guys.
Right.
Better practice like that.
Very to do.
Yeah.
And, and that's something yousee.
'cause I kinda saw the samething, just coaching at a much
lower level on the travel level,but it's like, you don't have
time.
Like I just said, you've got 30guys you're working with,
(43:59):
there's no way you're gonna gettheir skills better.
So it was more that that plantedthe seed, but you're like, all
right, I could really help theseguys between practices and
really get their skills gearedup.
Is is that what you're exactlygetting into?
Yeah.
And, and that in other sports,like football, like there's a
receiver coach, there's an oldline coach there.
There's a coach.
(44:20):
Like we don't, we're not thereyet.
So I'm taking whateverinformation from Coach Mitchell
on the offensive side that hecan give me.
But like, he can't go out and dore extra reps with me, right.
Like this game of, all right,I'm gonna get developed in
practice, but only really forlike 15 or 20 minutes.
Then it's.
It's, we have to work on all theteam strategy stuff.
(44:41):
Yeah.
But where, where am I gonna totake, where am I gonna take
another step as a player?
It's gonna be in the summer, inthe wintertime and during, you
know, my two or three days ofextra work outside of practice,
deliberate extra work, we calledit outside of practice.
That, that really started tochange my not only trajectory as
a player, but also my mentally,how I viewed development.
(45:04):
And that I knew that if thatworked for me, that it could
work for others.
And so I, I just felt like noone, even to this day, like I
can talk about it till I'm bluein the face, but there's just
something about working on oneor two very specific skills, you
know, for 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8weeks in a row where you see the
(45:26):
growth of it.
Totally.
Yeah.
And you see it, it manifestsitself in the game.
And you're like, wait, I wasliterally working on that.
And then it, I built confidence.
Then I went for it and practicedand I went for it in the game
and it worked okay like thisbecause it's either you do that
or you're just so talented thatyou don't need to do that or, or
a mix of both.
And I think it's kind of getlost in that they have to be so
(45:49):
talented.
Or they're not gonna make it.
It's like, no, you just have toreally hone in on your, your
process of development.
Right.
And that's exactly what I'veseen too, timeframe wise.
Like, it kids will come out withyou a couple times, a couple
weeks.
It's more like six weeks.
Right.
You're just at six to eightweeks.
I feel like that is the magicnumber.
We've had a bunch of othercoaches on it.
It just takes that much time tokind of train them into whatever
(46:11):
it is you're, you're showing'emto do.
So that's very cool.
Good to, good to hear.
Until we meet again.
Here's to hoping you find thetwine.
We're signing off here at theget the lax scoop.
Thanks again so much.
We will see you the next time.
It's time for Get the LackScoop, a podcast bringing you
all the people and stuff youshould know in the game of
lacrosse.
We take lack seriously, butourselves, not so much.
Join host Big Dog and Jaybirdand the biggest names in the
game brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training.
(00:23):
Ron Doglish, the big dog, was acollegiate football and lacrosse
player at Brown.
He was also an assistantlacrosse coach and the executive
director of the SportsFoundation.
And Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, athree time All American
midfielder at Brown.
He was the captain of the U.
S.
Junior National Team and is thefounder of JML.
(00:43):
And Joining us in the studio,Steve Grisolfi, who's collegiate
lacrosse career statisticsequals one goal against
Dartmouth brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training, helping the
next generation of lacrosseplayers get to the next level.
Hello everyone.
Welcome back to the show and forthose who are new to get the
(01:04):
lack scoop, a very warm welcometo you as well.
As many of our listeners know,we love our compilations that's
because it really hammers homesome of the best portions of our
previous quarters interviews.
And the first quarter of 2025 isno different.
We had three of the top skillstrainers in the entire country
(01:24):
on our show.
Jamie Monroe, out of Denver,Colorado.
Nick Tinel, out of Dallas,Texas, and Jules Berg out of the
great state of New Jersey.
The wide breadth of thesetrainers approach mirrors their
wide geographic reach, the reachof the game we all love.
We'll start off this compilationwith Jamie Monroe, brother
(01:44):
Neil's remarks.
And let it roll from there.
We sure hope you enjoy it and ifyou do, please subscribe to the
show and leave a review.
As they say, it don't costnothing and it sure would help
us out.
You will find our interview inprogress.
All right, Neil, enough, Jamie,Neil, enough, Jamie, let's get,
(02:07):
let's, let's get to you.
All right.
As I mentioned, I, you know, oneof the fun things about this
podcast is like, you know, youknow, guys forever, you play
with them, but it's not likeyou're really asked these kinds
of questions.
So, you know, thinking back oflike you being that we talked
about you being, you know, ateam defensive and offensive
MVP, how, how did you becomethat player?
(02:31):
You know, not every attack mangrows up wanting to ride their
ass off and pick up crazy, everyloose ball in the offensive end.
But you know, those of us whoknow the game know if you give,
especially the of offenses, youplayed with a few extra
possessions, a game, you'regonna win a lot of games that
come from those plays.
(02:51):
So anyway, I'm just wondering,like, how did you become that
kind of player that reallydistinguished your style, the
way you played?
Yeah, I think it happenedfreshman year in my first game,
a couple of us at the end of thebench were joking that I could
have probably still had my jeanson under my sweats because Dom
didn't even look my way.
(03:12):
And when you looked at theattackman that we had, you know,
towers in the middies with lowand obviously the other way
around and UJ, I realized that Ihad to find a way to make a
mark.
And.
I don't know if you guysremember, but I started getting
some opportunities on the wingsof the face off and I picked up
a couple of GBs there and Istarted getting a little bit
(03:33):
more time.
And as I started getting a fewmore and scrapping and hustling,
I started getting a couple ofmidday shifts.
And so when I became a sophomoreand it was me, Andy and Darren,
two future Ivy league players ofthe year and first team, all
Americans and nothing againstthose guys, but if it's not, you
know, in their advantage on thatGB, they're not really going for
it.
You know, 60, 40 for the otherguy.
(03:54):
Yeah.
We'll chase that one down later.
Right.
So I had to figure out my niche.
Right.
And then when Andy moved tomidfield.
And I get Oliver, I'm notpicking on Oliver either, but I
got a better shot of gettingthat ball than him.
So it was a little bit knowingmy personnel and then Jay, I'm
going to pick on you because youguys got pretty used to having
me get in the hole.
I remember many times seeing yougo, Neil.
(04:16):
You got this.
Get back there.
And so it's just, it was thisself perpetuating thing, but I
just started to love it.
You know, you look at theseVirginia teams that Lars has.
They ride the shit out of theball.
And I was kind of like thatearly guy who was just like, I
am going to go a hundred and 10from when the ball's down until
(04:38):
either I have to get back in thehole for Jay or Andy, or until
they have it on the other side.
So the only thing I think aboutis why Dom at that point, wasn't
like this shy should be a D midior an LSM.
I don't know why he kept me onattack.
That's probably the questionreally.
That we got to kind of figure itout.
It was working.
You had plenty of goals, plentyof assists.
(05:00):
No doubt.
But it was, I loved it, man.
We had the best time playingdown there and, and scrapping
that hard to get an extra.
I mean, you put the ball inDarren stick one more time.
You probably get another shotyourself.
You know, it's, it's all worthit.
There's definitely some rewardsfor the effort.
I was going to say, Neil, I meanyou know, What you're talking
about to me and knowing thatteam is the importance of
(05:23):
understanding how you can fill arole and make a huge
contribution.
Cause if I was answering thatlast question, I'd probably say,
because you became a hell of afinisher, you know, as, as
you're mentioning, there's a lotof guys on that offense who are
going to draw attention, but youfricking play.
And I remember a lot of times,you know, you're on the end of
(05:44):
some of those multiple slidesequences.
And you got to finish, you know,and so you, you became an engine
of both starting the offense, Ithink with your riding and your
ground balls.
And then obviously you were onthe, you were on the receiving
end of a lot of those, you know,assists.
So, yeah, no, you know, and Iactually attribute a lot to
(06:04):
hoops.
He would always be like one.
Get over here.
He's like, you got to startcontributing a little bit more,
right?
20 points for an attackman isnot enough.
Here's what I want you to do,right?
You would be like just gettingin my ear, but in such a, you
know, authentic hoops way whereit was more of just like, you're
going to be better and I'm justhelping you get there.
He wasn't putting you down oranything.
It was really incredible.
(06:26):
Right.
That's great.
Now, Jamie, as we were reviewingin the opening, you were an
assistant there at Yale and yoursuccess in that position for
nine years then led to youbecoming the first head coach
out there at Denver in thesummer of 98.
So tell us what that experiencewas like, you know, taking this
club program then, you know,eventually to a playoff team,
multiple times hitting the NCAAtournament.
(06:49):
So tell us what that was like.
It was really exciting.
I really wanted to be a divisionone coach and it was at the time
there was not as many programsand it was very it was very hard
to become a division.
And I really only got the jobbecause everybody else turned it
down.
So I was pretty happy aboutthat.
And you know, it was actuallydivision two.
But it was like a club.
(07:09):
I mean, there was, there wasvery few resources.
Our, our office was like, therewas Tier A sports and Tier B
sports.
And we were a Tier B sport.
And the Tier B sports were like,in this like old dining hall.
It was like a ghost dining hall.
And I shared with my, with myassistant at the time, but I
didn't care at all.
All I really wanted to do wasjust build a program and it was
(07:32):
an amazing opportunity.
And I, Just recruited as if Iwas, you know, going to be
winning national championshipsand just and it was just an
amazing learning experience.
I mean, it's kind of crazy.
It's like being, it's like beinga first time parent, though, you
know, you're just like crazyabout about everything and in a
good way and in a great learningway.
(07:54):
So.
It really, I've always been kindof a student of the game.
I learned a lot when I was atYale.
Mike Waldvogel was an incrediblementor for me and I learned a
ton.
And so I was able to sort ofcontinue the learning process.
But now as a head coach, you'relike, you got to deal with
literally everything fromrecruiting.
I mean, our budget was so small.
It was how small we talk.
I had to fundraise.
(08:15):
I mean, I probably fundraised 10million in 11 years.
Including like scholarships,including like literally
everything because we justweren't getting handed it, but
we, but the more we started tohave some success and the more
we were able to get people tochip in financially, you know,
it just helped us build thewhole program.
And so I really got intorecruiting Canadians, which was
(08:37):
an interesting thing.
So, cause I just startedrealizing that, you know, I
wasn't going to be able tocompete with the, with the
Virginians of the world.
Those levels of recruits, but Icould get these junior a players
and it really turned me on.
I'd played a little bit of boxacross.
You'd mentioned that, but it washard to do with coaching, but I
didn't know the value of it as aplayer.
And then when I startedrecruiting it, I just was kind
(08:57):
of blown away.
So now were those guys like incollege, the junior guys?
So they're like with the juniora players already in college
because I know they come in alittle older right when they
come to it back then becauserecruiting in general was older.
These Canadians were older.
The best kids in junior a were21.
So, I mean, I had like JeffSnyder was like a 22 year old
freshman.
Wow.
And I had a, I had a lot ofthose guys, so, so they hadn't
(09:19):
gone to college before,although, say what?
So they hadn't gone to collegebefore?
They were playing Junior a,yeah.
Yeah.
A lot of'em were hockey guys orthey were just like, you know,
they working at, you know, TommyTomato, Tommy Tomato, or
whatever.
I mean, just like waitingtables.
I mean, they were just gonna befiremen or whatever.
Oh, I gotcha.
Jeff Snyder, but you know,that's where I recruited Brownie
(09:42):
and I kind of got, you know,Matt Brown was actually, I got
an email from Matt Brown.
That was on one of yourquestions, Matt Brown is the
current head coach at Denvernow.
And I got an email from this guyand it was in the early days of
email, to be honest with you, itwas like maybe one of the first
emails I ever opened.
I mean, it was like a thousandor something like that.
And he was like, yeah, I'm fromBurnaby, British Columbia.
I'm a 17 year old.
(10:02):
I led the, I led the BCLA in hattricks this year and, you know,
and I started looking it up andI was like, wow, this kid looks
like he could be pretty good.
And I went up, did a home visit,actually got a ski day in at
Whistler as well.
Yeah, that was pretty littlebenefit.
But and and then I got apipeline into into Burnaby,
(10:23):
British Columbia.
And that was like, at the timethey were the best program in
British Columbia.
They won a lot of mental cups.
It was just the junior nationalchampionship.
And we had a bunch of kids tocome through from, from Burnaby.
And so, yeah, it was, it wasobviously an amazing experience
and we.
We built a good program.
That's cool.
And then was Hilgey your firstassistant?
Yeah.
Peter, the guy, the guy who wasat McDonough is at McDonough.
(10:48):
Peter Hilgar was his youngestbrother played at Maryland.
It was my assistant for thefirst three years.
I got you.
Oh yeah.
You know, you, you mentionedMatt Brown, Jamie, and I think
one of the, the other, likethings that, that to me.
You can tell a great coach whenhe's hired great assistants.
It's like the coaching treething.
So obviously right now you gotMatt Brown.
(11:10):
He just mentioned recruiting,you know, as the head coach out
at Denver now.
And I think Matt went on to beon your staff as well.
And then you got John Torpy whowere obviously all very
interested in the new, new coachat Brown, who I think was also
on your staff.
So.
Talk about those two guys andhow, you know, how rewarding
(11:31):
it's been to see them becomehead coaches and maybe
particularly coach Torpy, youknow, and and what you think of
him taking over your alma mater.
I love it.
Torp and I worked together forfive years.
So he was 2005 through, whichwas Brownie's senior year,
through 2009.
John Torpey is an incredibleguy.
But you'll, you'll never meet amore personable person in your
(11:53):
life.
He's like, he, he can relate toanybody.
He's absolutely hysterical, buthe's also maybe the most driven,
hardworking, and not justhardworking.
There's a lot of people thatwork hard.
This dude, this guy is soproductive.
It's insane how much this guygets done.
I'm telling you like he'll getmore done before 10 a.
m.
on a Monday morning than mostpeople get done in a week and
(12:14):
I'm not even exactly he isincredible, like I said with his
relationships with people.
He's got a really good He's gotan edge to him, but he's got a
he's he can do it in a way Thatyou still love him So like he
can be hard on you without like,you know Basically being an
asshole and it's like it'sreally it's it's a real talent
(12:35):
honestly.
And and he just He goes throughhis life with this sort of
groundedness of family and faithand his love for the game and
his love to learn and to notleave and, you know, and to be
as resourceful as, as humanlypossible to try to win.
(12:56):
But also he really cares aboutpeople.
So I think what you'll find isthat what he's going to do for
Brown is create an amazingculture.
He will bring the program back.
To where we want it to be asproblems here on this call.
And yeah, it was just an amazingexperience.
It was great to work with him.
Hey, Jamie, I'm going to chimein.
Cause he's also a completeanimal for Jamie's 40th while he
was at Denver.
(13:16):
He wanted to run a 50 K.
So the two of us signed up andtorps is like, I'm in the
corpse.
He couldn't train.
He had to train on an ellipticalfor a 31 mile race.
So we all code my starting line.
Not only does he beat us by anhour, but he goes an extra 5K.
'cause he took the wrong turn.
(13:37):
serious, not elliptical.
He, he took the wrong turnbecause he actually, we, I was
like, oh shoot, I got, I gottarock on my shoe right at the
beginning of the race.
I'm like, I, I really need totake it out for a second.
He is like, dude, I can't stop.
I'm gonna like, my, my, mycalf's gonna, you know, get, get
stiff or something.
And then he decides to try towin the race.
(13:58):
He actually went up with theleaders and was like flying
through like, he went throughthe first aid station and just
shoved like potato chips in hisface and just kept running
through the entire thing becausewe lost them in every aid
station we went to his name waslike not on it was on the first
one and then after that we neversaw him again and we were like,
(14:18):
because he tried to win the raceand he was like right behind the
leaders and then the leaders allof a sudden stopped in the
middle of the woods and werelike, yeah, I think we went the
wrong way.
Basically.
He's like, wait, what?
They went three miles out of theway, three miles back.
And then he somehow caught up tous.
Oh my God.
I was going to say, he told astory.
(14:41):
He played basketball with Jamiesomewhere.
Like he's like, you know,Jamie's like, Hey, you want to
play some pickup basketball?
It's like, next thing you know,it's 99 to 99.
We're playing by one.
We're both like, we're notgiving up.
And.
Did that really happen, Jamie?
We used to regularly play fullcourt one on one, twos and
threes to a hundred, win byfour.
(15:03):
Win by four.
By four.
It goes too fast.
Yes, yeah, of course, Jamie, ofcourse.
The game to 500.
next up is the great Nick Tin.
Tend to tell people, you know,like we call it the medicine
game and yeah, I never reallypaid attention to that or
understood that, but I 100%believe that it was the perfect
(15:25):
antidote for me at that time.
Right.
It got me back, it got a stickback in my hand.
I was making$10 an hour.
I was eating subway for lunchand dinner.
So I was by, at the time it was$5 foot longs I was close to be.
So I would order a$5 foot longand cut it in half, you know,
have half for lunch and half fordinner.
Barely have enough gas in my carto get to and from work.
(15:46):
But I loved what I was doing.
I was coaching kids, I wasteaching'em speed, teach'em
strength, and then doing thelacrosse on the side and
building the lacrosse thing.
And then I start, you know,start getting these kids really
good at lacrosse.
And I'm, I'm starting to gainmomentum and then I go to a
couple games and watch.
And then I started, you know, Iwas coaching a club team.
I was coaching high school, andthen I'm like on the sideline
and I'm like getting morenervous than the kids are.
(16:08):
And I'm like, those butterfliesare like, I want to, I wanna
compete again.
I wanna play again.
And that kind of led me back tomy, my journey back to the
professional ranks.
Yeah, that's great.
Yeah, that you're cueing usright into the next question.
This is beautiful'cause that,that was the question where we
can see in your resume where,you know, you took a break from
lacrosse you didn't playcompetitively yourself for a
(16:31):
number of years and wasn't surehow many, but I'm sure you can
tell us exactly six or eight.
But then there you are playingfor the Denver Outlaws and and
then I knew, you know, just fromlooking into some of these other
interviews that you had thiskind of burning desire'cause you
hadn't won that championship.
So, so tell us that whole story,like why you wanted to get into
it and then those first coupleyears and then you finally hit
(16:54):
pay dirt, you know, in 2018.
So, yeah, I, I mean it all cameback from coaching.
So I'm watching the kids playand I'm just getting a burn
desire to play again.
So I I was like, you know what,I'm at a gym.
I'm working out, I'm in great,great shape.
Yeah, I haven't, you know, Ididn't play competitively for
six years.
You know, the stick was in myhand a little bit for, you know,
(17:14):
so four years, didn't touch astick.
The next two years I had a stickin my hand, but I was just
coaching or a year.
And then I was like, you knowwhat, why not?
Why not just go try out?
So 2014, I tried out for theChesapeake Bay Hawks okay.
Not having any, at that time, mygoal was just to step on an MLL
field, just to step on aprofessional field and play.
(17:34):
Right?
So just get on a roster, play ina game, and that's it.
I wanted to play in one game.
I didn't even have to play aseason like that was just the,
the simple goal.
Mm-hmm.
So I worked my ass off.
I went to Chesapeake Bay Hawksat that time they had Matt
Abbott and then Reynolds, whojust played for the USA team as
D Mids.
And I knew that I was gonna be ad Middy at this point because,
you know, the offensive stuff.
(17:54):
You know, I, I don't, I didn'tsee myself competing.
I was a little rusty and stufflike that, but I knew I could
play defensive transition scoreif I had to.
So I, I went out for defensivemillion and I knew who was ahead
of me, so I didn't have highexpectations, but I was gonna
give it my best shot.
I made it to the last round oftryouts there.
Coach Coddle calls me.
He was with the s he calls me,he goes, we're gonna find you as
spot on this team.
He had a great tryout, all thisstuff.
So I made it the last round.
(18:15):
I got cut the last round.
But it, it, it was, it hard?
Yeah, it was hard, but I waslike, you know what?
I, I just proved myself afternot playing for six years
competitively.
I'm playing with some of thebest guys in the world.
I'm like, that's a pretty,that's a pretty good indication
that you can make it if youwant.
Keep pursuing this.
Right.
I went back, I went back to workand I, I didn't think about it.
But they had this LXM ProLeague.
(18:37):
In California with the XanderRitz and Max Ritz and Kyle
Harrison was in Peter Baum.
Oh yeah.
Some high level players, but itwas more of like a globe trotter
style thing.
It wasn't like a red eye in ared eye out.
It was, you know, we went topretty cool air.
Like we went to Utah, we playedin California.
We played at like really coolvenues.
And it just got me back into theswing of things like get, just
(18:59):
like, get the rust off and playhigh level lacrosse.
But it wasn't serious and it wasjust super fun.
Right.
It just, it, it made me fall inlove with the sport again.
At that time, it wasn't aboutwinning championships, it was
just about being back in that.
Locker room with the guys andplaying at a high level and
having fun with it.
I just wanted to find my desirefor it again.
And that's what kind of AlexMpro did.
(19:19):
So I was like, you know what?
I made it this far, you know,I'm in good shape.
Let me, let me go try out foranother team.
So the closest team toCalifornia is Denver Outlaws.
So they have, every year theyhave an open tryout for anyone
and everyone.
There was some 50 year olds outthere checking off bucket lists,
you know, things, right.
There was some high level likekids right outta college that
(19:39):
just wanted to, you know, didn'tget drafted but wanted to play.
Right?
So it was a mix of talent.
103 guys.
BJ O'Hara, John Cohen and TonySeman are in the middle.
They bring us in.
All the other guys not like, notstretching.
I'm stretching like a madman'cause I'm getting older.
So we, we stand around, there's103 guys and literally BJ O'Hara
goes, we're gonna be honest withyou, we're taking one or two
(20:02):
guys to camp and that's it.
So I look around, I'm like, Igotta a little hill to tie.
Wow.
But here's where I separatemyself.
It's like, this is where I knewmy role was gonna be.
I knew who was on that Denversteam.
I knew the mids, I knew who Ihad to go against.
Mm-hmm.
What was the d mids lookinglike?
So they separate I goal here,defense here, mids there,
(20:23):
defensive mids over here.
Me and four other guys, threeother guys go to the d MIDI
section.
Now I know, all right, I'mcompeting against this.
And hopefully they, they need,you know, some depth at the D
MIDI position.
So anyway, I, I show myathleticism, my ball out.
I do really, really well.
They take me and one other guythat played at Delaware and play
EmPro Pro on the.
(20:44):
And and I, that's crazy.
Well, at camp, I actually, I'mplaying and I'm kind of like,
you know, I'm the older guy atcamp, one of the older guys on
the team.
And how old were you at thispoint?
30.
Right.
So you're coming in, you're,you'd be like a rookie,
basically 30-year-old league,right?
Right.
At 30.
That's, that's amazing.
So I, I'm playing against DrewSchneider and he crosses me up
(21:06):
and I, like, I didn't wanna hurtanyone.
I, like, I, I was still like thelow man on the to pole, so I
didn't wanna, like, I wanted tobe a part of the team when I
wasn't even on the team yet,right?
Mm-hmm.
So Coach Seaman, channel.
You're allowed to crosscheck inthis fucking league.
Will you crosscheck this?
So the next time I go out, Iwrap my stick around Drew
Schneider.
I'm like, I'm apologizing tohim, but I broke my stick across
(21:28):
his back.
He flew the ball, comes out, Imake a good play, whatever.
And, and Tony, soon wass, like,that's all we're talking about.
I'm like, I ended up making thesquad, I ended up making the
team.
I had a great tryout.
I play in, and again, this ismy, my, so I, I've reached my
goal.
I'm gonna play in an MLO game.
Mm-hmm.
That first game I have to coverJimmy Bidder as an, at, like,
(21:49):
it's short stick on a, an attackman.
Great.
You won't see man.
Right.
But, but first grade assignmentfor my first game in pro.
So I'm, I'm nervous now.
I gotta guard an attack man.
I did pretty well.
We won our first game.
It was an awesome experience towalk out on in, you know, Denver
Bronco Stadium.
It was like, you're playing inan FL stadium and you know, that
(22:10):
was cool.
A year old rookie.
I didn't play for six years,whatever it may be.
And it was a cool comebackstory.
And then.
And then, then you're, thenyou're a part of the team and
you're like, all right, we wannawin.
Yeah.
We ended up losing the next twoor three games, and then I find
myself not, they didn't travelme, so they call me like, Hey,
we're gonna leave you off theroster.
We're gonna travel some otherguys and try some other guys and
try to switch this thing around.
(22:31):
Now you guys all know MLL likewould go into like college
season, and then they would,they would, they would get
college kids after theygraduated.
So they brought in MattKavanaugh and Jack Kelly and
Goal, and they brought in acouple other pieces brown team
that year that had a good run.
And all of a sudden I'm watchingfrom home and they're turning
the season around and they're,you know, everybody in the
league is.
(22:52):
Eight and eight or you know,nine and seven.
Everyone's like close.
So like it comes down to likethe last game and they were so
bad, but they fought the, sothey get the fourth seat going
into playoffs and I'm watchingat home and they win their first
playoff game.
And then they are playing in Ithink it was Kennesaw State.
They were playing Ohio machine.
And Scotty Rogers is in gold forOhio.
And Steve Walden also I playedhigh school with, is playing for
(23:14):
Ohio machine.
So I'm watching the game andthey're killing the outlaw.
They're up by like 11 goals athalftime, but then they have a
rain delay.
And the rain delay was like atwo, two and a half hour rain
delay.
Denver comes back out and clawsthe way back in and wins the
game.
Holy cow.
So, wow.
I'm sitting there at home beinglike, I was a part of a team
that just won a championship.
Now I'm like never wanted, neverwon in high school.
(23:38):
I've never won in college.
I've never wanted to pro.
It's like the only thing missingis my rent.
So I, I was like, after I gotlike, you know, I was done, I
got cut, I was like, know what?
I did it, I made it back to thepro level.
I'm good.
Like how many, right?
How many people could say as a30-year-old rookie, they made a,
a pro team?
Like, that's not, it's not areal, it's not, doesn't happen
often, right.
So, yeah, for sure.
But the problem is, is that nowI don't have a ring and I just
(24:00):
saw my team win.
So now I have a differentobsession.
Oh, I still haven't done that.
So that goes on my mirror in mybathroom win MLL title or win a
a pro title.
So I got back to work.
I didn't know if the outlawstaff was gonna call me back.
I didn't know if I was in theirfuture plans, but they had
different plans for me.
They thought they, you know,they got my feet wet year one.
(24:20):
And they invited me back to campand I pull my hamstring in Camp
Tony Seaman.
I, I thought it was over.
I thought it was done.
And Tony Seaman comes in thelocker room and goes, you gonna,
you, you gonna be all right bySaturday?
I was like, in a week, like, theonly thing I can say without
losing my job is yes, I'll beready.
So I was like, yeah, I'll beready.
Now I own the gym at this time.
(24:40):
So I have my chiropractor, so heworks on me two hours, three
hours a day to get me, geez,practice some sort of percentage
so I could at least run a littlebit.
And I play in the first game andthen play in the second game,
third game.
And you know, my hamstringstarts to heal a little bit each
time I play in the full season.
Where the best team in the MLLwe're number one seed.
We already are in playoffs.
(25:01):
It's coming down to the lastgame against Rochester Rattlers.
So this is 2017.
It's my second year in theleague.
We playing Rochester Rattlersand there's a ground ball scrum
and I get pushing behind.
I land on my wrist, I roll overmy wrist and I palm my elbows,
snapping my wrist in half.
Oh man.
I come off to the sideline and Itell the trainer, I'm like, I
snapped my wrist in half.
(25:21):
And he's like, he looked at it,he goes, seems all right to me.
I'm like, okay it up.
Play the rest of the game.
Play the rest of the game.
I knew it was bad.
We were in Rochester, we flewback.
And it was right a balloonprobably with the atmospheric
pressure change in the, in theairplane.
Totally.
I, I knew it was broken thewhole time.
So anyway, I go to see Dr.
Ol, who's our surgeon.
(25:42):
And he looks at it, he goes,yeah, he definitely broke it.
He goes, let's look at it.
I tore every ligament in mywrist.
So you know, this is rightbefore playoffs.
Now I'm, I'm obsessed withwinter ring.
We're the number one seed.
We had the best team ever, bestdoctor I've ever been a part of.
I'm right there.
And now I'm, so they sit me downand I pleaded my case.
I go, I, I told him, I was like,I will do anything to plan.
I, I was crying on the phonewith Coach Seaman.
(26:04):
He could tell you I was begging.
I was like, I'll sign a releasewaiver that, you know, you guys
are not liable for me, you know,doing any more damage.
I'll sign whatever you want.
They finally just, you know,talked to me, talked some sense,
and me like, you could lose theuse of your hand and in your
profession, that's not gonna begood.
So mm-hmm.
We sat down and then you know,we, I, I went to the first game.
(26:25):
They flew me out to the firstgame.
We played Rochester again.
We beat them.
We, we go play Ohio machine in arematch in 2017 at the Star in
Dallas.
Oh wow.
And I'm sitting on the sidelineand I can't tell you how hard
that was to sit on the sideline.
Yeah.
Watch your watching that catchyour game when all you want to
do is be a part of somethinglike that.
Right.
Probably the hard, one of thehardest things, you know,
(26:46):
besides the other things Ishared, that was the second
hardest thing in my life at thatpoint.
Mm-hmm.
And I watch'em lose, we lose bytwo or three goals or something.
It was a close game, but welost, we go in the locker room,
there's some, there's some olderguys, Matt Bley and guys like
that, that are thinking abouthanging up the cleats and.
Moving on.
And I, I'm, I'm pleading, I'mlike, one more year.
One more year, guys.
Let's, let's run it back onemore year.
(27:06):
We gotta get, like, you know,they just lost the game.
They're not in that mode tolisten to me asking because I
didn't play.
But guys came back, I came backfor one more year, 2018.
Now I'm 32 years old.
We're struggling all year.
We're up and down.
We're in the mix, but not, youknow, we're not the team.
We were the year before.
We're trying to figure outpieces and, and move some things
around.
We got Chris Guttier in the, inthe draft, which helped us.
(27:28):
And you know, we, we startedturning things around, but now
we're in the middle of theseason and Jack Kelly's playing
for you at team USA and he tearshis ACL.
That's our star goal.
Yeah.
So now I'm like, no.
Yeah, right.
Just lost our starting goalie.
So anyway, it wasn't as big of adeal as, as, as it may seem,
because our backup goalie wasalso Team Canada's goalie.
(27:49):
Dylan Ward.
Oh man.
Yeah.
Geez, not a bad backup.
Yeah, you can't, you can't beatthat.
Dylan Wards, you know, you know,he's got a lot of race.
He's legit.
Right.
So, anyway, long story short, Iknow I'm going far with this,
but No, this is great.
It's our last game of theseason.
Whoever wins that game gets abid to the playoffs.
(28:09):
Oh man.
Yeah.
So I have to play in that game.
So that week before I go to thesurgeon and I, I get a, a, an
X-ray and stuff, and he comes inthe room and he look at him.
I'm like, what's up?
He goes, I got good news.
Bad.
Don't, don't tell me you'reabout to tell me.
He goes, you want, you want thebitter or bad for somebody?
Just gimme the news.
He goes, your, your wrist healedfrom last year.
He goes, however, somehow youbroke it in another spot this
(28:32):
year.
Oh, okay, we're gonna have toshut you down.
And I'm like, stop.
This conversation is not gonnaleave this room.
No one from Denver Outlaws isgonna find out about this and
I'll be back on Monday orwhenever to have surgery, but
I'm not, fuck, you're notfucking telling a word.
And to say it lightly, Imight've threatened his life.
I wasn't gonna, I wasn't sittingout no matter what.
(28:52):
Right.
Just didn't tell, I didn't tellanyone on the team.
I didn't tell the coaches.
I wrapped it up a little bittighter for Atlanta Blaze.
We ended up winning.
Get into playoffs.
And this is the funny thingabout lacrosse, Atlanta Blaze.
This is where it comes fullcircle.
Atlanta Blaze was the team.
I got cut year one in 2016.
That was the last game I playedas a professional.
When I first got there, we beatthe, this, the first round of
(29:15):
playoffs was against theChesapeake Bay Hawks, I believe.
They were the number one seed.
And the team favored to wineverything.
It's the team that cut me in2016.
We ended up beating them by onegoal, or maybe even overtime,
game to get to the championshipgame.
And then we end up playing theRochester Rattlers, who I broke
my wrist against in 2017 and gotshut down.
So, geez, the, the story comesfull circle where I, where I'm
(29:38):
kind of checking these thingsoff and, and you know, it's a
storybook ending.
We end up winning in 2018.
We beat Rochester.
They beat us twice during theyear they were stacked.
My job responsibility was NedCrotty.
A toured an award winner.
Yeah.
Attacking a short, I was like,you know, I was like, that's
insane.
Don't mess this up for the team.
(29:59):
Right.
But anyway, storybook ending.
I won my championship, I got myring.
And it was just, it was one ofthe most special things I've
ever been a part of, but it wasemotionally draining and
physically draining.
How did it feel to hold thatchampionship trophy?
So that's what I'm getting do.
So I get, so we win the game,they're making the announcement,
whatever, and I'm staying withthe team.
The captains are go getting, go,getting the trophy.
And, and I'm gonna say this, theDenver Outlaws organization was
(30:20):
the best.
Best team I've ever played forBest Locker Room.
That's cool.
It was just a really tight knitgroup.
And that first game in 2016,coach Seman called me Tinkle.
So became a thing in 2018, likeget Tinkle a Ring.
'cause they all knew my storyand how much I was like putting
in this and what I needed andyou know, was trying to get
(30:40):
that.
That is great.
So get tinkle a ring, get tinkleA ring was like our motto for a
little bit.
And then so you had Eric LawDrew Schneider and Matt Bockett
as our three captains who werethe best leaders of men that
I've ever been around in, in thesport of lacrosse.
Wow.
That's cool.
They get the trophy first andthey turn around and instantly
go call me up.
They go, Tinel, and they, theygive it to me and I raise it
(31:02):
above my head and I almostdropped that shit right on my
head.
My wrist, my wrist was so, ohyeah.
And I, I, how it was, I almostliterally dropped my head.
It was just one of the best.
One of the best days of my lifeto come from what I went
through.
Right.
Work all the way back and havethis just fucking roller coaster
of a ride.
(31:23):
Right.
Physically and finally getthere.
Like I, I watched the game youknow, play back on, on, on
YouTube or whatever and I, I, Ijust go to the end'cause I
wanted to see,'cause I was onthe field, I wanted to see what
happened and so I don't reallyremember it.
And I just collapsed.
And then Matt Kavanaugh likepicks me up and hugs me.
'cause he knew how much.
But it, it, it was, that's theonly thing I was living for.
(31:43):
I was running a business, I wasdoing all this stuff, but the
only thing I needed was the ringand the trophy.
Right.
I put every ounce of energy intothat, that I could.
And now we'll tune into ourinterview with four time All
Star Jules Henning.
And, and a little bit of thatresearch that came up that you
weren't a ranked recruit.
I guess the way things were doneat that stage, Ron and I, there
(32:06):
was wasn't much of a ranking.
People might have had somerumors, but there was, there was
nothing published.
But then you go into their r torts, Jay would've had himself
high in the rankings.
Oh yeah.
Just so you know.
He would've, the rumor wa therumor was I was very high in
ranking actually.
That's great.
That's, that's all he wanted tosay, Jules.
That's why you brought thatwhole thing up as long as you
earned it, Jay, you know,that's, that's what I respect.
(32:28):
Exactly, Jules.
Lots of hard work.
But you know, there you are atSeton Hall, you become a leader
there.
And then same thing at Rutgers,you're a two time captain, so by
the time you're a junior, you'reone of the leaders on the team.
And then by the time you're asenior, you're one of the best
attacker in the whole country.
So just awesome stuff there.
So tell us, tell us about thatjourney there at Rutgers with
(32:49):
the Scarlet Knights.
Yeah.
The.
Kind of a similar situation withwith what happened at Scene
Hall, honestly, where I gotthere and we had, I got
recruited as a Big East Attackman and I wasn't ranked as a
recruit.
I think that that was, honestly,I don't think I should have been
ranked at the time, likerelative to some of the kids
(33:10):
that like were ranked it at thatmoment in time.
I think there was a couple ofkids that I was better than, but
I think once you get to like theeighties, nineties, it's like
what's the difference betweenthe 90th recruit and the hundred
20th recruit?
Like I mm-hmm.
I think that, that there's thetop 10, the top 20, and these
kids, those kids are, you know,those are legitimate lacrosse
players, a lot of them.
And I don't think I was thatgood at that time.
And so that was one aspect toit.
(33:32):
I, when I got recruited, I gotrecruited late'cause I wasn't
playing on a club program.
Mm-hmm.
And I did think a lot of it, alot of the circumstances at play
for me were just very rare.
Where I was a good player, Iwasn't the best, but I was a
very good player that justwasn't understanding of what was
going on.
Then I missed the wave ofrecruiting, so I wasn't, I
(33:52):
wasn't good enough to thendecommit one of the kids that
they had had uhhuh.
So like what year, just curious.
Would that have been, were therelike, all right, we got our
class completed.
Was that when you were done withyour 10th grade year or 11th
grade or like what year?
Hopkins filled up in 2011.
20, yeah, in 20 11, 20 12.
And I got recruited in 20 12, 2013.
(34:14):
So like I remember Shaq was thefirst verbal commit in our
class.
And then UN, I wanted to go toUNC and I remember two kids got
recruited Taman.
And so that was locked up andthat was, that was a freshman
going into sophomore summer.
And then I didn't start to eventalk to coaches until sophomore
going to Junior.
(34:35):
And that was when Rutgers wasstill in the Big East.
And so we, I got recruited asthe Big East attack man.
I find out they're going to theBig 10.
I get there, they're in the Big10 and now.
We were, they had an eight andeight season the year before.
And then the, my freshman yearwe were five and 10, and we had
given Monmouth their first everwin in program history.
(34:57):
I remember we were tight contestwith Wagner.
We, I mean, we were not, we werenot good, but we weren't far
off.
That was kind of like thing,like we would play these games
and we would lose to Virginiaand I could be like, okay, like
we lost to Virginia.
But I mean, they, we could havekind of beat them.
We just weren't all there.
Or we lose to Hopkins and wewere like, we could have beat
(35:19):
them, but like, we just kind ofmessed up at the end.
Like we just didn't have thediscipline, the whole game.
Yeah.
So I was like, again,personally, I, I just took a lot
of pride in like my experience.
I think so did a lot of the guysin our class, and I would just
throw out there and think abouthow many guys they miss when the
class is full of guys who werein that summer between their
(35:41):
ninth and 10th grade year.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, you probably developed aton.
I was a bit of a late bloomer ifyou were, I know Dylan Malloy
was.
I mean, imagine how many guysthat are, you know, they're just
missing out on, so no wonder youguys could become competitive if
they're getting kids that are,you know, a little more
developed and they can see, allright, this guy's gonna be a
legit college player.
(36:02):
So, interesting.
I, I completely agree with that.
I think that was a, a toughthing for a lot of schools, but
they're banking on how, how goodyou were, how physically
developed you were as a freshmanat 14, 15.
That's crazy.
I think, I think the, thehardest part about that is just
the mental side of it.
Like what if you get committedwhen you're 14?
(36:23):
You naturally, you, unlessyou're a real dog.
You're gonna take your foot offthe pedal.
Right.
Right.
And unless you have greatmentors around you and your
parents, and I think a lot ofparents in lacrosse is like,
Hey, you get committed.
It's, I'm cool.
It's, I think it's changing.
Mm-hmm.
But like to be like, Hey, likeyou, that's the ticket you get
committed.
That's all I I needed.
I don't need you to be a FirstTeam America when you're there.
(36:44):
I just need you to, to getthere.
Have a good experience.
So you get a great collegeeducation.
Now it's becoming reallycompetitive to where, hey, if
you're not like staying thecourse and you, you know, you
don't pan out like that'simpacting the club teams.
It's impacting the relationshipswith the coaches and how they
view the talent pool comingoutta certain areas and, and
(37:05):
those kind of kids.
And so I think we got lucky in alot of ways that, from the
recruiting stuff that we had, Imean, in my class, I think we
had four PLL players in myclass.
Wow, that's football players.
And so my sophomore year, a lotof us played our freshman year,
got great experience.
(37:26):
We lost some games, but we cameback our sophomore year.
And we were just, I mean, wewere just wanted to be great
like we really did.
I think all of us played adifferent part in that.
I personally played a part inthat on the offensive side where
I knew like, okay, coach Bretwants, wants me to be a
quarterback here.
(37:47):
Like that does, there isn'tanother guy that's significantly
like the gap between me and thenext guy.
We're kind of big.
So if I here, like, okay, likehe might not be a starter.
I'm a starter and I'm over here.
Well, can I be a starter or canI be an all-conference player?
Can I be an All American?
And if I don't keep pushingtowards that, we're gonna
(38:09):
struggle offensively.
Like if I, if I can't provideus.
The spark.
It's not like we have the nextguy behind me who's saying like,
okay, take Jules out and, andsub in and Owen Duffy.
Right.
Like, or Right, right.
You know, a, a Brady pono.
Like there's no, like next guyup.
Mm-hmm.
And that was, that was, for me,that gave me a sense of, okay,
(38:31):
my spot's kind of safe, but alsowe're in trouble if I don't
figure this out.
And, and I, I took thatpersonally and I think a lot of
the, our classmates did too.
Like we knew what we kind of alllike had this PAC sort of like
agreement, like we want Rutgersto be great.
Mm-hmm.
And you know, we kind of just,just took that and, and ran with
it.
And our sophomore year wasincredible.
(38:53):
The attack line I was on hadAdam Sherman Beatty's, NLL
player now.
Oh yeah.
And he was, he's probably alltime goal scorer, one of them
at, at Rutgers, maybe top three.
And he, was tremendous Canadiantalent.
And then Scott Vita was theoffensive player of the year,
big or big 10 player of theyear, his senior year coach,
(39:13):
offensive coordinator inMichigan.
And we were on a attack linetogether, and both of us are
professional players.
And so, right.
I was like, wow.
Like this is, if I can hold myweight to these guys we're, you
know, we're gonna be pretty goodon, off.
Yeah.
That, you know, that was, that'sawesome.
It was kind of just a, you know,I think we got, I don't know if
it's luck or like what, but Ijust looked around and I was
like, wow, we actually did havea lot of guys that were really,
(39:35):
really talented.
Whether we worked at it, whetherit was we got recruited the
right way, I, I don't know.
So it worked out.
It worked out.
And then what does coach Brecklike to play with?
So Coach Breck, like four, Iguess I should say.
He probably didn't do that muchplaying back then.
Yeah.
So co coach Breck, the, thething I, I appreciate most about
him was like, he really believedin me personally and gave me a
(39:59):
ton of confidence.
Like I'd never had someone.
Outside of my dad believe in memore than coach Rec did.
And I think that he, heinstilled that in a lot of his
players when he was recruitingyou.
Like, I brought you here for areason.
Like, I, I need, I want you, Ineed you.
I believe that you can be allBig 10, all American, a program
(40:22):
player.
Yeah.
And so I think he, I, Iappreciate that a lot and, and
how he did that.
And I think he also positionedus to maximize, like our
individual talents.
I see.
Different programs playdifferent ways, but if you have
a lot of talent, there's alittle bit more you can roll the
balls out.
And we didn't have that type oftalent, but we had it.
(40:46):
So where, you know, he, he'sempowering his, his coaches
coach Jim Mitchell is theoffensive coach at Princeton now
who, who I think is doing someof the most phenomenal work in
the country as far as offense.
Yeah.
What he's built with SoursCoulter, McAfee, and, and just
some of the.
The guys you see there, ChadPalumbo and just some of what
they're doing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The free flowing Kabiri the parasets, just the early offense,
(41:09):
the stuff that they're doing.
I took for granted that like wewere being positioned to
maximize our strengths.
Where I think I look at someother programs and I'm like,
man, you guys have excellenttalent, but these guys are not
being utilized well.
Mm-hmm.
And I, I'm pr I'm producing, butlike, who Is it more that I'm ta
(41:29):
as talented as you?
Or am I being positioned tomaximize my talent?
And that, that's something Ialways appreciated about Coach
Brecht and just the program is Ialways felt like they were
trying to put me and other guysin spots to have you shine and
Right.
And hide your deficits away.
Mm-hmm.
Kinda maximize your upside.
(41:50):
Yeah.
Yep.
And, and give you like, hey,like you're not Jules, you're
not a great outside shooter.
I need you to get there.
But like in the meantime, like,let's put you in spots where
you're gonna be able to bearound the cage and do this and
do that.
And like now you can score fouror five goals a game.
We'll hide that you're not agood outside shooter.
Eventually they'll catch on.
Can you get better at that inthe meantime And mm-hmm.
So with, with that type ofmindset from Coach Breck, is
(42:12):
that something that got youstarting to think about getting
into coaching yourself orstarting to mentor players, you
know, that kind of encouragementand also your experience with
your Seton Hall coach?
I think, honestly, I always feltcompelled to really share any,
like, information that I get.
Like maybe, maybe even to afault, like hoping that people
(42:34):
would, would buy into it orcatch on.
And the reality is some peopleare just where they're at and
that they don't, they don't wantto do the work and they don't,
they don't wanna take it asseriously as I do, which is to,
it's totally fine.
Like it's no harm, no foul.
If you're my teammate, sometimesI, I like take that personally.
But everyone's in a differentposition.
That's just, you know, kind ofjust for me, for my life.
(42:55):
But I always felt that in, insport and in lacrosse.
So if I learned something, sawsomething on film you know, had
a technique, whatever it mightbe, like, I want everyone to
have it because I'm like, Hey,if this is helping me, I know
this can help you and if you getbetter, we're gonna get better.
And so I never felt like Iwanted to, to get better in a
vacuum.
I always wanted to share in, ingetting better with other
(43:16):
people.
And I think that was kind of thestart of it for me, like my sort
of passion or purpose aroundjust being a mentor, being a
coach, being a teacher.
And then I think when I got tocollege, something that I was
hoping for more of was personaldevelopment on the field.
And you realize fast that likethere's only three coaches, I
(43:38):
think now there's more paidpositions.
But back then, like yeah, we gotan offensive coordinator trying
to have 30 guys.
Right.
Better practice like that.
Very to do.
Yeah.
And, and that's something yousee.
'cause I kinda saw the samething, just coaching at a much
lower level on the travel level,but it's like, you don't have
time.
Like I just said, you've got 30guys you're working with,
(43:59):
there's no way you're gonna gettheir skills better.
So it was more that that plantedthe seed, but you're like, all
right, I could really help theseguys between practices and
really get their skills gearedup.
Is is that what you're exactlygetting into?
Yeah.
And, and that in other sports,like football, like there's a
receiver coach, there's an oldline coach there.
There's a coach.
(44:20):
Like we don't, we're not thereyet.
So I'm taking whateverinformation from Coach Mitchell
on the offensive side that hecan give me.
But like, he can't go out and dore extra reps with me, right.
Like this game of, all right,I'm gonna get developed in
practice, but only really forlike 15 or 20 minutes.
Then it's.
It's, we have to work on all theteam strategy stuff.
(44:41):
Yeah.
But where, where am I gonna totake, where am I gonna take
another step as a player?
It's gonna be in the summer, inthe wintertime and during, you
know, my two or three days ofextra work outside of practice,
deliberate extra work, we calledit outside of practice.
That, that really started tochange my not only trajectory as
a player, but also my mentally,how I viewed development.
(45:04):
And that I knew that if thatworked for me, that it could
work for others.
And so I, I just felt like noone, even to this day, like I
can talk about it till I'm bluein the face, but there's just
something about working on oneor two very specific skills, you
know, for 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8weeks in a row where you see the
(45:26):
growth of it.
Totally.
Yeah.
And you see it, it manifestsitself in the game.
And you're like, wait, I wasliterally working on that.
And then it, I built confidence.
Then I went for it and practicedand I went for it in the game
and it worked okay like thisbecause it's either you do that
or you're just so talented thatyou don't need to do that or, or
a mix of both.
And I think it's kind of getlost in that they have to be so
(45:49):
talented.
Or they're not gonna make it.
It's like, no, you just have toreally hone in on your, your
process of development.
Right.
And that's exactly what I'veseen too, timeframe wise.
Like, it kids will come out withyou a couple times, a couple
weeks.
It's more like six weeks.
Right.
You're just at six to eightweeks.
I feel like that is the magicnumber.
We've had a bunch of othercoaches on it.
It just takes that much time tokind of train them into whatever
(46:11):
it is you're, you're showing'emto do.
So that's very cool.
Good to, good to hear.
Until we meet again.
Here's to hoping you find thetwine.
We're signing off here at theget the lax scoop.
Thanks again so much.
We will see you the next time.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial
Introducing… Aubrey O’Day Diddy’s former protege, television personality, platinum selling music artist, Danity Kane alum Aubrey O’Day joins veteran journalists Amy Robach and TJ Holmes to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. Join them throughout the trial as they discuss, debate, and dissect every detail, every aspect of the proceedings. Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise, as only she is qualified to do given her first-hand knowledge. From her days on Making the Band, as she emerged as the breakout star, the truth of the situation would be the opposite of the glitz and glamour. Listen throughout every minute of the trial, for this exclusive coverage. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes present Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial, an iHeartRadio podcast.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.