May 28, 2025 • 42 mins
In this episode of Get the Lax Scoop, hosts Big Dawg and Jaybird and a special guest dive into the exciting 2025 NCAA Lacrosse playoff matchups for this past Championship Weekend. They discuss team performances, standout players, and discuss coaching calls including insights into the PSU v Cornell, Maryland v. Syracuse Final Four match ups as well as the Championship game of Maryland v. Syracuse. The crew blends deep lacrosse knowledge with fun banter, ensuring a compelling listen for lacrosse enthusiasts.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
It's time for Get the LackScoop, a podcast bringing you
all the people and stuff youshould know in the game of
lacrosse.
We take lack seriously, butourselves, not so much.
Join host Big Dog and Jaybirdand the biggest names in the
game brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training.
(00:23):
Ron Doglish, the big dog, was acollegiate football and lacrosse
player at Brown.
He was also an assistantlacrosse coach and the executive
director of the SportsFoundation.
And Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, athree time All American
midfielder at Brown.
He was the captain of the U.
S.
Junior National Team and is thefounder of JML.
(00:43):
And Joining us in the studio,Steve Grisolfi, who's collegiate
lacrosse career statisticsequals one goal against
Dartmouth brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training, helping the
next generation of lacrosseplayers get to the next level
all ladies and gentlemen,welcome to it's Jay.
(01:03):
It's a, it's a somber episodefor me because nothing I love
more than the college acrossseason.
And this is gonna be the collegewrap up episode of Get the Lack
Scoop.
It is a bit somber Ron.
And Tuesday I was a little downin the dumps and didn't really
know why, and then I realized,oh, it was the high of Memorial
Day weekend.
I'm coming off of that, but Iwas really looking forward to
(01:25):
airing this issue of get thelack scoop and having our next
guest on, so.
Jay, we have, we have I, I'm,I'm not gonna give away the name
of our guests, but this is kindof lacrosse family royalty here.
Oh my God.
I mean, big time.
Jay, you're high.
Good way to wrap up the collegeseason.
I can't imagine anyone who'smore closely connected to
(01:47):
college lacrosse and lacrosse ingeneral than this guy.
I mean, if you had a lacrossefootprint, this guy would be
Bigfoot, lacrosse, familyfootprint, veritable Sasquatch.
But let me get into this intro.
Yeah.
Our next guest is the head coachof the varsity lacrosse team at
Calvert Hall College HighSchool, a posties held since
(02:08):
1996.
He's been named Coach of theYear six times in 1996, his
inaugural season in 2003 whenCalvert Hall won its first
Maryland InterscholasticAthletic Association's, a
conference, which is the MIAALacrosse Championship.
The best.
High school lacrosse in thecountry.
(02:29):
Jay?
Hey, it's up.
It's up there.
Unquestionably, it's one of thebest I'm sure our guests will
attest to in 2012, when he ledthe team to its second
championship, as well as afterwinning conference titles in
2017 a year.
He was also named the All USABoys Coach of the Year by USA
today in 2018 and in 2019.
(02:51):
And that was an unprecedentedthree straight championships.
And of course, this past seasonthat just ended, he led the
Cardinals to their sixth and Iaa title the most by any program
since the league's inception.
He's a graduate of theUniversity of North Carolina,
where he was a political sciencemajor and a close defenseman for
(03:12):
the to heels as a senior in1991.
He was an All American selectionand a co-captain he helped the
heels achieve an undefeated NCAAchampionship season.
Please welcome to the show, theone, the only.
Brian Kelly, thanks for havingme, Jay.
It's good to see you guys again.
Rob.
I'm looking forward to it.
(03:32):
Awesome.
Kelly.
Great to see you, Jay.
And let's, let's just, let's getBrian used to how this goes.
Let's bring it to us.
It should have been us playingCarolina in that 91 National
Championship game.
Fricking baba Burle.
God TURPs.
It's bullshit.
Is that, is that who you guyslost to cab it back to us?
(03:55):
91.
I've got my, here's some justIvy League championship.
We were undefeated until we lostto the TURPs.
Yep.
Yeah.
Could've been undefeated Versusundefeated.
Should who, who, who still holdsthe NCAA playoff record for
saves in a game.
Wrong.
(04:16):
Rob Cabbott.
Really?
The 1991 Maryland team againstBrown.
What?
He had like 32.
32 Saves something crazysmaller.
Had at least 30 against us in 88in the quarterfinals.
Really?
Yeah.
That's unbelievable.
Absolute beast.
Yeah.
Something part of ours was badshooting.
They can't put Give it all tocavi it.
(04:38):
Yeah.
McMahon Christ, shooting it intoa stick.
God bless America.
Alright, Jay.
But, but let us, I digress, Jay.
Yeah.
Let's, let's pull forward tothis championship weekend we've
had.
I was sorry to miss the theFinal Four lead in show.
I, I, I did listen.
(04:58):
Coach Staria, Tom Towers did,did a great job, but but I'm
really looking forward totalking about this championship
weekend with someone who livedit as both apparent and a
lacrosse aficionado.
Let's, let's do a little, don'tknow.
Let's explain.
Brian's son is Daniel Kelly.
Yes.
He is a four year starter forthe TURPs.
(05:19):
Has been in three nationalchampionship games, won a
championship with them in 2022,and one of the top point getters
and goal scorers on the teamthis year.
Big number 45.
So it's been exciting watchinghis career.
Had a heck of a career.
Oh, thank you.
You were very proud of him.
Well, you definitely should be.
I mean, what an, what an amazingexperience and career he's had.
(05:40):
And I heard it.
I was doing a little researchand reading.
It was such a tough decision.
He's like, I'm really letting myfamily down.
I think he actually committed toUNC'cause Brian of course went
to u and he, he did some of hisbrothers, and I know his older
bro, brother Jacob Daniel'sbrother.
Yep.
And was like, I just, I'm sorry.
I want to, I wanna be a turf.
That like a tough, tough momentfor the family.
(06:02):
Not at all.
It was never needing toapologize at all.
I mean, for him, it justcommitted really young and then
as, as time went on and, and hejust really had a, a desire to
be a turp and coach told me whatrecruit, like when he opened up
his recruiting coach Tillmanrecruited him.
And it's interesting, after the,the Quarterfinal Georgetown
game, I just sent him a text,Daniel, after the game and just
(06:26):
saying how, you know, God's waysare better than our ways in so
many ways.
Things because it's just like,for him to make that decision to
go to Maryland and how great ofa decision it was for him to
play for just an amazing coachand coach Tillman and just to be
a part of.
You four opportunities to win anational championship and to
just to grow as a person and asa player there is he just has so
(06:49):
much to be thankful for, eventhough it didn't end the way we
all wanted it to end for him I,he wouldn't or nor we as a
family would've traded anythingfor, for that experience.
And a nice added bonus to have'em close to home too.
Right.
Yeah, it was great.
It was really nice.
Yeah, it was great.
So guys, let's get into talkingabout these games this weekend
(07:10):
and let's start with theMaryland, Syracuse semi-final.
And guys, you're gonna have tohelp me here.
I got to watch one half of Finalfour lacrosse'cause my daughter
was graduating on Saturday fromLafayette College, but the one
half I, well that is no excuse.
It's called a DVR.
I've watched these games toomany three times to prepare for
(07:31):
our.
All our listeners out there.
Come on.
Thank you.
Thank you Jay.
I'll carry it.
Appreciate that.
I'll carry it.
I was gonna segue into, Iapparently only needed to watch
one half of the SyracuseMaryland game'cause I caught the
first half and that was aboutall you needed to see.
'cause Maryland just dominatedSyracuse in that first half.
And I'm gonna leave it to youguys, but I'll just say that
(07:52):
that half seemed to me toepitomize kind of what Syracuse
was all year like I'm surprisedthey got as far as they did.
Right.
And like they could beunbelievable at times and then
at times it was kind of hard tofigure.
Yeah, also great creditobviously to, to Logan goal.
Well it, they were down Harvardin their playoff game, eight to
(08:15):
two, the same score at halftime.
And they could come back andthey had a few other games like
that that they were down, butyou're not coming back on the
TURPs.
So anyway.
Brian, what was your sense ofthat matchup and what led
Maryland to get off to such agreat start?
Yeah, I, I just think, well,Maryland defensively just shut
them down with Logan.
And then Shaller did a great jobon Lina, and, you know, Selina's
(08:37):
a great player.
And when you can take him away,that, that, that's huge.
And I also think our D mids werewere excellent against their top
mids, you know, and they did a,a really good job, good job of
just taking them away.
And I thought offensivelyMarilyn was very business-like
they really moved the ball and,and they were precise in their
offense and they just played avery efficient game from top to
(09:00):
bottom.
I think you're right.
I would've expected like WillShallow to play great, McNaney
to play great, but I wassurprised how well those D Mids
did.
You know, nothing, you know, tosay like, I didn't, you know,
that I underestimated them.
It's just that the Syracusemidfielders are very good.
They kind of initiate a lot oftheir offense through their
midfielder.
They do, they score a lot ofgoals and it was just like a
(09:22):
nothing burger out there.
I mean, it was like.
Forget it.
Look, I think d mids the secretsauce to win it.
If you have good shorts, stick Dmids.
Yeah.
It, it, it's, it's huge becauseyou don't have to slide and you
know, it's really the secretsauce.
And I think, you know, if youlooked at the two teams in that
championship, they both hadexcellent shorts stick D mid.
Right.
They carried the, the way forthem.
(09:43):
That's a great point.
They're kind of like the, thecornerbacks of the NFL.
Yeah.
Like they get picked on and ifthey're rock solid, you're gonna
be in great shape.
And if they're a little on theweak side, you're gonna be, it's
gonna be a long day.
So it's a good point.
And they're the guys that no onereally talks about, but they're
the guys that everyone in theirteam in the locker room know
that if we don't have theseguys, we don't win.
They're the unsu heroes to everyteam.
(10:05):
Right?
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, you were talking about theshort stick d mids.
I also think today in the, inthe clearing game, right, if you
got athletic d mids that can getthat ball up and out and start
offense on the other end is justhuge.
It's huge.
It's, it's huge.
And you know, like the one thingabout Maryland and just watching
them a lot, they're, they'revery good in transition and
(10:28):
teams tried to take theirtransition away because of their
DD mids are so good.
And, and their polls are withthe Kid Larkin and Jack
McDonald.
Those two both are two of thebest polls I've seen throughout
all of college, across and soit, and, and Maryland's clearing
game is the, the, the highestrated clearing game in, in all
(10:48):
across, it's over 90%.
So, you know, they, they clearedwith great efficiency in that
game against Syracuse.
Mark and had two goals.
Yep.
And, and they were getting upand down the field.
You're right.
Yeah.
One of the things just notesfrom the preview before was like
if the Syracuse Faceoff guy Ithink his name's Johnny Mullen.
(11:09):
Yep.
If he could dominate.
'cause he was like 62% for theyear.
Maryland was kinda like 51, 502%.
It was like, oh, if hedominates, that would be great.
He did fine, but it was morelike 46%, you know, he lost the
battle.
Yeah.
I mean, for whatever reason theyreally did well.
And then McCool played well onthat first half, really the
(11:30):
first quarter.
And next thing you know, it's,you know, it's eight to two
after that second quarter.
And it was like, you know, thosetwo areas of potential strength.
And, and they shut down thetransition game of Syracuse
quite significantly.
Yeah, they did.
And you have to, you know,'causethey're as skilled as any team
you're gonna face, you know,they get up and down and that's
what, you know, as a dadwatching it, you know, I never
(11:52):
felt comfortable, you know, itwas like 11 six.
I'm like, if they get it tofour, you know, Syracuse and get
a run.
And Maryland always did a goodjob with just never letting them
get to four, you know, they keptthem at five pretty much
throughout the game, so, yeah.
Yeah.
But particularly with thatSyracuse team, back to your d
midi point, Brian, if, if youcan win your matchups and not
(12:12):
slide, because boy, if you getsliding and trying to recover
against Syracuse, I, I've, attimes their ball movement
offensively was just off thecharts.
But if you're, if, if you canwin your matchups and not slide,
you kind of take'em outta thatgame.
Because, you know, Jay, you'vesaid before, they're not the
most physical athletic groupnecessarily.
(12:34):
Off to Dodge, you know?
Right.
So their secret sauce, when theywere really humming offensively
seemed to be in transition orgetting teams moving and sliding
and just, you know, moving theball faster than you could
recover defensively.
Right.
You really gotta play the ballwith them.
You can't let them dictate thetempo.
Yeah.
And if you just give them spaceand they, they have their hands
(12:57):
free.
They're, they're, they're, youknow, they can throw a behind
the back pass right.
On a dime, you know, like, yeah,you gotta be all over those
guys.
And that's what Marilyn did a, Ithought, did a really good job
in not letting them get anddictate the tempo offensively.
Yeah, absolutely.
That's kind of, and Jay, itseemed like in that game, number
45, kind led the TURPs offense.
I think three point performance,two and one in that game.
(13:21):
I think so.
Two and one.
I think Spanos had four in one,but Daniel Kelly, number 45 is
right there.
Jay, who's on the, the episodewith us today.
I'm, I'm just saying, looking atmy stats, that's all.
He was an absolute leader.
There's no question about it.
Yeah, Daniel had a good day, butit's, it's anything like he
(13:41):
lives off of others, so it was,it was really nice, you know,
and it's it, good thing aboutMaryland, it's, it's always
somebody different, every game,you know, a lot with the way
they play, so.
Right.
It's, it was, it kinda remindsyou of great, really great
championship teams are kindalike that when everybody's a
threat.
Yeah.
You can go back to, you know,look at so many different
(14:02):
sports.
I, I always look when theYankees were really good being a
New Yorker, it was in like 99and 2000 when every single guy
had like 20 home runs.
Like nobody hit 50, but all nineguys hit 20 plus.
So that's kind of what this,this TURPs team made me think of
that plus their defense.
Now defense is like the topranked defense in the country.
They had the best goalie in thecountry.
(14:24):
And then their offense thoughwas super solid.
They were all dangerous.
They moved the ball incrediblywell.
They're incredibly unselfish.
You know, that, that's thething.
I mean, with Tilt, like youwatch, they don't take bad
shots.
They don't shoot turnovers.
They're just very efficient.
You know, if you look at thestats of them that every kid is,
if they get six shots a game,that's a lot.
And you see some of these guyswho play get 22 shots a game and
(14:47):
you're like, you know, and theyscore three goals and
everybody's talking about theirthree goals, but I'm like,
shooting percentage is gross.
You know, so, you know, it's amatter of like, and then
whenever you shoot and you miss,you allow the.
Fence to reset and get back intotheir formation and you know,
you take'em out of the, the spinwhere tills does an amazing job
of making sure that these guystake the best shot.
(15:09):
Right?
Absolutely.
And I think some people aren'taware of that point.
You just said like, oh, youknow, the guy had three goals,
he took 20 shots.
It doesn't matter.
It does matter.
Right?
Like it does matter.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you're not, you're gonna beon the losing end nine times
outta 10 when you got someoneplaying like that.
So Yeah.
Yep.
That was the difference too.
Like for Syracuse when theyplayed Princeton, they were
beating guys off the Dodge andthey were causing slides to
(15:31):
happen and that just was nothappening with the TURPs.
So impressive.
Yeah.
So for looking at Tillman here,four to five years, he's been in
the finals nine outta 14seasons.
So not counting the 2020 seasonthey've been in the finals.
Yeah, it's amazing.
It's an absolute machine.
He's unreal.
(15:52):
It's amazing.
So, you know, one of thehighlights of the Lake Placid
tournament this summer waswatching Jay McMahon, I score to
John Tillman.
No, that was not it.
Watching Jay McMahon and JohnTillman get into a little, a
little fisticuffs, Brian, theywere a me pissed off at each
other.
I knew it was him was, it wassee I've got the replay.
He cut, I'm bending over for aground ball.
(16:13):
I'm being covered by a differentguy.
He runs in and like slams intome from behind.
I'm like, dude, I jump up andI'm like, what the heck?
And I sh I just like shove himoff.
I had no idea who it was.
Once I shoved, I realized it washim, but he didn't know it was
me.
And we, we know each other andhe's coming at me like literally
trying to swing at me.
I'm like, John, it's JayMcMahon.
(16:33):
He's, oh, okay.
All right.
Sorry.
Boy.
Nothing I.
I forgot.
I mean, it was, it was comedywatching these two 55-year-old
guys trying God to go out, outthere, dude.
It was like, that's hilarioushow you sit in Mayweather.
I mean, just, oh yeah.
That's how I would describe it.
Alright, fellas.
We had a stifling Marylanddefense.
(16:54):
We had Maryland sort ofoutrunning Syracuse, and you
have the best goalie in thecountry and the result is
Maryland's on to yet anotherchampionship game.
Let's move to the Cornell PennState game.
Let's do, Jay, let's start withyou.
What were your big impressionsof this one?
Well, I've got quite a number ofnotes here, Ron.
Oh yes.
In general, we go, here we go.
(17:16):
Bk, watch out.
It was amazing to see Cornellfunction basically without CJ
Cursed, right?
I mean, he had no points.
It was the first time he didn'thave a point.
He 66 games, so four years worthof lacrosse.
But they pulled it off.
You know, you gotta give PennState a ton of credit.
I mean, they played really well.
(17:36):
I thought, you know, when we didour little preview on this game
that the Cornell goalie might bea, a liability'cause he was a
bit of a liability againstRichmond, but he stepped up big
time.
He had like six saves in thefirst quarter.
That was as many, I think hetied a save number in that
compared to that Richmond game.
But he finished with nine saves,which was good enough for 50%.
(17:58):
Alex Ross, the defense memberfor Penn State, did a great job
on CJ Hurst.
But it was great to see allthese other guys step up.
So that's, that's what I'llstart off with.
Brian.
What do you think?
I, I mean, I thought too, whenPenn State got in the zone
defense, it really stifledCornell.
I mean, yeah.
You know, as a, again, I'mwatching it from my Maryland
(18:18):
goggles and like Maryland, wedon't zone, they don't, so I was
like, God, if we had a zone,this could be really good.
'cause I was not enamored withCornell Zone offense at that
game, but they would've figuredit out anyhow.
And you know, it says a lotabout Cornell when you can win,
when your best player doesn'thave any points, you know?
And I think I go back to thetime when Yale won the national
(18:40):
championship and their best, Ithink it was Reeves and I, I had
so much respect for Reeves.
I, I think it was his, becausehe didn't score many points in
that game and he was totallycontent with just doing it.
And it was the same thing withCJ Kirk.
Like, I don't think he cared ifhe scored a goal or not.
All he wanted to do was win.
And that just says so much abouthim and his team and why
(19:02):
they're, you know, you know,such a great team voice in the
championship in so many ways.
Point, I mean, he led the teamand caused turnovers for the
season and he did have a handfulon their ride, you know, cause
turnovers in that game againstPenn State.
So, yeah, it's a great point.
They ride great.
They're an unbelievable ridingteam.
Best riding team I saw play allyear.
(19:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
And you know, beyond just the CJcursing, when you flash ahead to
how the championship game playsout, you know, the, I mean they
got a, they had a lot of depthon that offense, but arguably
they're two best players.
Kirsten Goldstein combined forone goal.
Right.
You know, Ryan had one goal.
So between, if you, cj, if yougo into that game and say Cursed
(19:44):
and Goldstein are gonna have onepoint.
You're saying, wow, Penn State'sgot a hell of a chance to pull
off the upset here, which bringsyou back to, I think Brian, what
you were saying, maybe evenbefore we got on air.
That's the sign of achampionship team, right?
When, when you can get that kindof depth and balance and win a
semifinal game with, you know,ar arguably your two best
(20:08):
offensive players giving you onepoint, you got a hell of a team,
right?
KT has over a hundred points andRyan Goldstein has 90 or 92, and
the golds from their faceoffguy, they got a goal and assist
from a long pole who's alsoanother Garden City guy.
What's his name?
Oh, stop, Brendan.
Stop.
And then their two of theirsecond line mid scored and then
(20:31):
Wilhelm scored.
And then of course their big guyKelleher, Adam MacArthur Hugh
Kelleher had three goals intothe cyst, so he was huge.
And then of course, Michael Longplayed great.
Their third attack man,basically.
But yeah, I mean that, thatonce, once that happened, I was
like, wow.
You know, they, they're, they'relegit.
They could take on the TURPs.
(20:51):
I mean, the TURPs are a powerfulteam, obviously been there
before.
And I was like, I don't know ifCornell can, can, you know,
stand toe to toe with them.
But once they did that, I waslike, okay, game on.
Yeah.
They, they were impressive.
Yeah.
I think you brought up anotherthing.
You know, I, I, I wondered allalong, based on some, having
(21:12):
seen some of I.
Cornell's defense, and as yousaid, they're a goalie play, but
they give up single digits inboth the semi-final and the
final.
And if there was a weakness onthat team I think it was
defensively and in the goal.
And so you gotta give a lot ofcredit to that unit that really
(21:33):
stepped up.
And, and also thinking aboutCornell, you know, they're down
five four in that semi-finalgame to a Penn State team that's
running, riding a lot ofmomentum, you know, coming outta
the quarterfinals and they're upfive four at the half and what
does Cornell do?
Comes out and just drops thehammer and, and it, and it seems
like it's kind of game overafter that third quarter, right?
(21:54):
Yeah, that third quarter turnedout to be a six one run and they
just kind of took control.
And at the end of the third itwas nine seven.
I.
And they, they made a ten seven.
Then you had a nice little runfor I guess it was actually
probably 9, 9, 6 at the end ofthe third, because then I
remember you get, you get it alittle back and forth in the
(22:15):
fourth, and next thing you knowit's 10 to nine.
So Penn State's really coming onand then Hugh Kelleher scores
his third to give him that twogoal lead.
And then eventually, I thinkthey won 12 nine.
I mean, you look at Cornell,they.
They find different ways toscore, you know, they can score
six on six.
They were not really scoring sixon six in the second half.
A lot of it was transition oroff of a failed clear or, you
(22:38):
know, a, a ride back of a hustleplay.
Right.
You know, and, you know, a lotof those things are what makes
them so dangerous that I dothink going into the
championship game, I know that'sone of the things that Marilyn
was really worried about was howthey, how they rode and, and,
and what they do really well isthey're probably one of the best
restart teams you see.
(22:58):
Like if there's a, a play onsituation, they restart faster
than anyone I've seen.
And they, they did that in thenational championship game as
well.
Right.
And that's usually one of thestrengths of Maryland, I would
say.
Yeah.
Is this quick restart.
And they did get them on acouple restarts, which was kind
of a shocker.
Well, gentlemen, it seems likeit's time to move on to the
championship game, which I didhave the pleasure of attending.
(23:22):
Brian, I will say that I was,oh, Ron, if I could cut you off.
Oh God.
Are you gonna share more?
One more.
Have you not gotten throughenough of your notes?
Jay?
How about a little homage toTam?
Tam Bro's.
Been in the finals with Cornell.
Yep.
With just a heartbreaking lossof Syracuse.
Oh my gosh, that was rough.
Back in, was that 2009?
Somewhere back there.
(23:42):
Yeah.
And then three semi-finals withPenn State.
So, you know, and I feel likehe's another coach who's, you
know, I mean obviouslyMaryland's really good, but I
feel like Tillman's just gettinga lot out of his players.
So same thing for Tam bro.
And that they are really toughin the playoffs.
I mean, they're good regularseason, obviously, they're the
only team who did beat Cornellduring the regular season, but
still they had four losses.
(24:05):
But I mean, holy cow, in theplayoffs, they're just really
tough.
I mean, so.
Good, good for Coach Tam Brown.
He's a great coach.
Great coach.
No doubt.
Okay, Ron.
Jay, are we ready Now?
Move on.
I, I agree.
That was a nice recognition,well deserved for Coach Tam
Brown.
Absolutely.
And I mean, you know, when wethink about the three of us
(24:27):
growing up, who the hell wasPenn State?
Right.
I mean, it's, it's anotherindication of how far the game's
common to think, Brian, thatthat, you know, if you would've
told us that Maryland would bein the Big 10 and that, that
would be an unbelievablelacrosse conference, we've
looked at you like you had eightheads.
Right.
You know, with Ohio State andPenn State, like Right.
(24:47):
Notre Dam even.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Holy cow.
True.
So it's a tremendous, and thenyou can say the Big 10 could be
the best conference in all oflacrosse this past year.
You know?
I know.
If you think about it.
Yeah.
And you could have said that acouple times in the last five
years.
Yeah.
Question.
Of course, I'm throwing NotreDame in there.
Everyone knows they're a C.
But just saying these Midwesternteams, like when we were
(25:08):
playing, they, they may have hadteams, but we didn't know that.
I don't know if they did or not,but we def if we were asked when
we were seniors in 91, if theyhad teams, the answer would've
been no, they don't.
Yeah, very true.
Oh my God, it's amazing.
So now we move on to the thechampionship game and Brian,
you, you, I think probablythought about this game a lot
(25:30):
more than Jay and I over the 48hours leading into it, I'm sure.
And and so what was your sensegoing into that game?
What did you think Marilyn hadto do to win that game?
And then how did, how did thosethings play out?
Good question, Ron.
That's usually something I wouldask, but nice work.
It's interesting my son Daniel,he, he's my, I have five boys
(25:53):
and they're all very different.
And Daniel calls me, we talk allthe time, like he's the guy
who's always filling me in,like, this is our game plan.
It's what we gotta do.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They, yeah.
They sit on the broadcast thathe's like a coach.
Tell me Yeah.
Insider info of like, what theirconcerns were and what, you
know, and I, I, I think going inlike where Marilyn honestly was
(26:13):
really worried about Cornell isand is how they ride.
They ride really hard.
They felt like they couldn'tgive him transition.
If you give'em transition, it'sgonna be tough.
And if you watch, I thoughtMarilyn did a really good job.
And then they were veryconcerned about their restarts
and their ultimate goal was notto give them like a failed
clear.
Goal.
(26:34):
And if you look at the fourthquarter, they got two, maybe
three failed clear goals, likeextra possessions.
And if you fail clear you, youknow, you stop'em for 60
seconds, then you fail a clearand they get a brand new 60.
It's really tough to stop teamstwice.
And that's what happened towardsthe end, you know, and so the
very thing that they wereworried about is what, you know,
(26:57):
Cornell did a great job in.
And I just felt like, you know Ihave a nephew on Cornell, so I
got all the info from my brotherFrank about that from, you know,
telling me everything.
Going into the game on theCornell side, as we said before,
there's not a team.
This guy's not somehow connectedto the lacrosse family footprint
of Sasquatch.
So it was you know, it was asplit family thing going there,
(27:17):
but it was you know, but youknow, I, so that was the main
thing for what Marilyn wasworried about with Cornell.
You know, and again, I think theface offs was, was a concern
just because that kid's done sowell.
But I have to tell you, the twokids from Maryland, they were
just amazing all year.
Yeah.
They always found a way to, tobattle.
And that has to do with thekids.
And I just think it's a lot withthe coaching, they, they
(27:39):
prepared these kids.
So in incred, I don't thinkthere's only one game that maybe
we struggled at the X, but allyear long these, these kids
found a way to wing, win the,the draws and battle with the
wing play, but mm-hmm.
So that was the main things thatMarilyn had concerns going in,
that they felt like they reallyneeded to take away and, and do
a good job against.
(28:00):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
I mean,'cause rewatching thegame, kind of just sitting back
when you know pretty much what'sgonna happen, you can really
take it in more.
And just take note of exactlywhat you said.
It was like, I think it wasthree failed clears that led
directly to goals, and if not,it led to more possessions that
eventually led to a goal.
And it was like that, you know,it kind of, it felt like to me
(28:23):
just sitting there during thegame, like, okay, Cornell's kind
of got it.
My wife went to Cornell, youknow?
Yeah.
He's rooting for Cornell.
I, I'm leaning on their side alittle bit, like, all right,
they're up by a couple.
But in the end, you know, whenit became a one goal game, it
was the difference of gettingthe ball back on that as they
were trying to clear the ball.
This is the number one clearingteam in the whole country,
right?
Yeah.
And this is Maryland.
That was just bizarre.
(28:44):
It was 10 to nine, it was theirstrength, right?
It was 10 to nine.
And if they, I really felt ifMaryland could get it to 10, 10.
That you know, and they, you andthen they get Cornell starting
to white knuckle a little bitlike ugh.
Hadn't even time.
Yeah, you do.
You start to in a long time.
Yeah.
It was anybody's game.
You go back prior to the failclear Spanners had an incredible
(29:06):
shot and that goalie made anincredible save and that
would've tied to the game.
10.
10.
They clear it.
Maryland, you know, stops'em.
And then we have a failed clearon a ten nine where if we got
it, we had an opportunity to getit to 10.
10.
Right.
And you know, a failed clear,they get the ball, they score,
(29:27):
they're up by two.
Another failed clear scorethere, you know, so, you know,
just it, that's what happened.
And it's so uncharacteristic forMarilyn, but at the end of the
day, you have to give Cornellcredit.
Like the one time Larkin has theball running up the field on a
clear, another opportunity toclear the ball, cursed.
At the midline takes the ballaway, away outta stick.
(29:49):
Like, yeah.
And that does not happen to AJLarkin ever.
Like he is ever.
And you know, like, it, itagain, it, it was, you know,
part of it isn't what Marilyndidn't do, it had to do with
what Cornell strength didstrength for Cornell, right.
Was strength versus strength.
Right.
They're sitting back in thatride and somehow, before you
(30:11):
know, it Maryland only has likefive or six seconds to clear it.
It's like 66 seconds on theclock or whatever.
And it was like, so they feltpressured, it seemed like, and
so I, well, I don't really wannaclear.
Yeah.
I don't feel like it was a big,you know, huge mistake so much
by Maryland.
It was just like great playsjust happened to develop for
Cornell.
I mean, it was definitely astrength for them.
(30:32):
That ride.
It was crazy.
Well, I felt like Cornell wonthe midline to mid to the
restraining line.
The restraining line.
They were phenomenal between therestraining line and restraining
line.
Right.
They were, they won a lot ofthose, those ground balls.
And then, like you said though,in, in a lot of games that can
happen where it did seem likeCornell was really dominating.
But what do they have to showfor it?
They only got a one goal lead.
(30:53):
Yeah.
In that fourth quarter.
It's like all that.
And, you know, the game couldhave been taken from'em.
'cause Maryland was just thattough.
So it, it was a heck of a game.
Guys, have you ever seen, Ican't remember a game.
At that level of lacrosse whereyou had more faceoffs that
turned into like what seemedlike 92nd six guy scrums, just
(31:18):
freaking battling.
I mean, it was, I know really inthe championship games.
Yeah.
They're like, I don't know ifthis is the, looks like a bunch
of 70 year olds.
And the commentator said, or abunch of 10 year olds.
It was like, no, it's just likeno one can get that ball.
It's just, but it seemed Cornellwould always pop up and get it,
like it would be a scrum for awhile and then all of a sudden
(31:40):
one of the Cornell kids would,would get it.
And I think the stats are verymisleading.
You know, it looks like it waseven in ground balls and Yeah.
Face off Marilyn won Faceoffsand Yep.
You know that, but at the end ofthe day, like Marilyn would win
the face off and then theCornell kid would strip it and
get the ball.
So, like for me, I always thinka faceoff stat shouldn't, you
shouldn't count a win until youget into the office.
He gets the possession.
(32:00):
Right.
Who gets, yeah.
I don't think if you pick up aground ball and they give you a
win, it, it doesn't matter.
It's till you get possession inthe box to me, is what they
should count as the stat forface off.
And Cornell just was disruptive.
They were just reallydisruptive.
Yeah.
And Brian, that's like, youknow, if, if you, if you think
about the Maryland teams, likeif you're telling me.
(32:23):
This game's gonna turn into kindof a tough on the ground, kind
of scrumming it up.
That's a, that's like a trade ofMaryland.
Like I think Tillman has histeams play so tough and
fundamentally sound, and they'reusually, they are a team that's
great off the ground, you know,and they're very physical in
their, in their approach to thatpart of the game.
So again, back to what you said,this is not something where
(32:46):
Maryland is weak or they weren'tbattling.
But you gotta give Cornellcredit.
I mean, they really did playhard, but then as you said.
Man, I would, I I, you couldfeel when it got to ten nine,
the things got tense in a hurryin that stadium.
'cause it kind of felt likeCornell was in control.
In control.
In control.
Mm-hmm.
And then, and then just as we'retalking about those very
(33:09):
uncharacteristic,uncharacteristic,
uncharacteristic, thank you.
Failed clears.
Here's another, say two.
Yeah, go ahead Ron.
I was gonna say another,another, you know, key that I
would add.
I mean, you know, Logan McEnanywas just.
Throughout the year.
Some, I mean, he could just shutthe door on you and he played
(33:30):
really well.
But if you, if you walk intothat game and say the Cornell
goalie is gonna have one moresaved than him, that's another
thing where I gotta give Cornellcredit like that.
I don't think that was astrength of theirs.
And you know, Wyatt reallystepped up, I think in those
last couple games.
And as you said, that Save onSpanos and I, here's another
(33:52):
impression.
I mean, he looks big on tv.
I have not seen them play liveuntil the championship game.
Holy.
Mm-hmm.
Crap.
Is he a load man?
A lot?
Yeah, he's a big boy.
Oh yeah.
He, he's, oh, and the defenseone huge too.
Right?
He's, he's not fast, but he'sgot great feet and control and
kind of slickness got, he gotthem hung up a couple times in
(34:13):
that two man game.
And, and smart.
Smart player.
Smart player.
Yeah.
He is a handful.
Oh yeah, he is.
He, he is.
And that shot by Spanish was avery good shot.
You know, like, I don't thinkMarilyn shot very well
personally, and they had acouple, like a lot of pipes and
things, but and that, but the,the Cornell goalie stepped up,
(34:36):
man.
He played great.
And their defense, which you'reright, Ron was, their weakness
was, was solid.
They played really well and andthey played really well in both.
Semi-final in, in, in, in, inthe final.
So they, those guys did anoutstanding job.
And one thing I'll say too thatRyan Goldstein, I mean they list
him at five eight or five nine.
(34:57):
I saw him at the final four, Ithink it was last year.
Just like a pre-game thing.
I mean, he is five seven, I'mtelling you.
And he is, I don't know that heis 145 pounds.
And he is tough though.
I mean, he took an absolutehammer of a hit very next
whistle, the balls, he takes theball on the end line, goes right
(35:18):
at Canfield, does a split roll,gets underneath and goes in and
scores.
And I thought he was going to, Ithought he was like knocked
outta the game, the play before.
So I gotta, I give him a ton ofcredit.
And on top of the fact that hewas not recruited anywhere like
they thought they were doing.
Tim Goldstein, his dad whoplayed when we played naturally
was the player of the year.
Think in 88 or 89, he, doing hima favor by putting Ryan on the
(35:42):
team.
And now I'm not so sure you knowwho got the favor there?
Yeah.
He's only a sophomore.
Got 90 points and the toughnessand then he had another complete
one-on-one.
And I was surprised.
One thing, after watching thosetwo games in a row, I watched
the Penn State Cornell game andthen Cornell, Maryland, the
championship.
And Penn State reallyneutralized, cursed by even when
(36:03):
they were playing man to man.
It was like as if they wereplaying zone.
Yeah.
They were really helping.
And it seemed like Maryland wasdetermined not to slide.
'cause I replayed those times.
When Goldstein's going to thegold, no one is even looking at
him, they're like face guardingtheir guys.
And then the same thing forcursed.
So I mean, you know, tough to,to criticize a coach like Coach
Tillman who's probably the mostsuccessful guy he's ever
(36:25):
coached.
But that was one thing I noticedthat he, they, they really
didn't try to help out thatmuch.
What, what do you guys Yeah, Iwas very going into the game, me
personally, I was always worriedabout the Goldstein matchup,
just with the way Marilyn'sdefense is built.
Uhhuh, they don't have that realquick defender besides Shaller
and you know, Canfield's anawesome defender, but he's
(36:47):
always covering the two.
Ander's covering the one andhe's like a bigger guy.
Yeah.
And then the glue guy, believeit or not, is the, the, the guy
who's the glue to that defenseis Burla, you know, Uhhuh.
And he's covering long.
So you kind of knew Les wasgonna go long, you weren't sure
is Shaller gonna go Goldstein orShaller gonna go curse and you
know, you gotta go withshallower on Cursed.
And he did a great job in onCurse.
(37:09):
And even though Curse had sixgoals, but they did a good job
of getting cursed on othermatchups.
And he could get underneath, youknow, he might have scored on
Shaller once, but I think hescored on the other guys watch
the time he got underunderneath.
Yeah.
And there wasn't, and then theone on Goldstein, I think that
the one that he scored where he,you know, ran at Canfield and,
and got underneath pretty quick.
(37:30):
I, I, I, I think that was abreakdown off ball from watching
it in the stands.
Like, I just don't think, youknow,'cause there was like, I
think there was like 10 secondsleft on the clock of, of the
shot clock on it, you know?
Mm-hmm.
And guys are looking to findtheir guys.
I, I, I think that was a, likea, a mistake made by the
players.
Not that they weren't gonnasell.
(37:51):
Yeah.
That they might've.
Okay.
Yeah.
That they were thinking, okay,not much in the shot clock.
They're gonna go for a feed.
He was, he was beat so bad thatWell that's, that's what I was
gonna say, Brian.
He was beat like 10 yards fromthe goal.
That was a Oh boy.
Yeah.
In fact we were, but after that,Cansfield played a great, he
never got beat again, you knowwhat I mean?
It was that one time.
And you give Goldstein space andyou give him that dodge from the
(38:14):
corner.
There's no one that can is gonnacover him like Right.
He's, he's and I, and I wouldonly mention his name'cause he
is a great defenseman.
I mean, been, it's not like he'sbeating someone who's not good.
So like Yeah, I mean, he's aheck of a defenseman.
He, he is unreal.
Like, it's amazing on how manygood kids in Marilyn's team that
aren't all Amer, like he's anall American type defenseman.
Mm-hmm.
And again, like we all get beat.
(38:35):
I'm a defender, you know, youall are gonna have those
moments.
And you know, if you look at hisoverall performance of the game,
he was outstanding in Canfield.
But that was just that onemoment where I felt like he was
kind of left on an island andmm-hmm.
The help wasn't there for him.
You know, he did his job, he gotbeat underneath, you know, he
didn't get beat top side and,and there was just no help.
(38:55):
Right.
What a, and you know, at theend, at the end of the day, Jay,
I will, I will take some credithere.
You can go back and Oh, andlisten to, to me, of course
you'll Ron me predicting thatCornell was gonna get to the
finals.
I did miss the other one, but,but of course you did.
I I did, I did think, of courseyou did.
When you, when you look back,back, pick the Hoyas over your
TURPs.
I did.
Brian did, can believe this guy.
(39:16):
I did.
I did.
I did pick that upset.
I did, I did not.
Anyway not close, but you know,when you, when you, when you
look, if you wanna oversimplifythis game and you look at teams
that have won nationalchampionships, the better
players, the best players makingbig plays, and you know, in this
game you got Goldstein and cursecombining for 10 goals versus
(39:40):
one point in the semi-final.
So, you know, and, and thatsnow, as you were just saying,
Brian, that there is not abetter defense than that
Maryland, that, that Marylanddefense, right.
But you know, on this day, thosetwo players just stepped up and
made big time plays, which iswhat you gotta do to win
championships, you know?
(40:00):
Yeah.
And you gotta give them credit.
They did.
They did a great job.
And look, coach Bernhardt isprobably one of the, if not the
best defensive coordinator inthe game, you know, for
Maryland.
And he's always got these guysprepared and ready to go.
And you know, when you have two.
Players like Goldstein and, and,and curse it.
It's, it's, that makes thingstough.
(40:20):
They're, they're, you got two,number one attack men on your
team, you know, and Right.
You gotta pick your poison.
Right.
Absolutely.
Well, good stuff.
It, it was a great game.
No doubt about it.
And then, you know what I wantedto mention too was the sports
center that night, I just DVR'dit.
The lead in to the whole, youknow, hour of SportsCenter was
(40:42):
the national championship game.
It was great.
They're like, you know, MemorialDay.
So it was more Memorial Daynight, let's say.
And they're like, there's, thereare like some one-off great
sports moments in baseball,basketball, you know, if it
happens.
But there's only one sport thatdedicates their championship to
Memorial Day and that is D onemen's lacrosse.
And they, that's how they ledthe show in.
(41:02):
And they did like a nice littletwo, three minutes highlight.
It was just great.
I was like, look at this.
That's awesome.
Going prime time.
Yeah, it's cool.
All right guys, wellcongratulations to both tho
those teams.
I mean you know, at the end ofthe day you usually end up with
the two best teams and I thinkwe did right.
And it was the first time inmaybe 20 years that one versus
(41:23):
two met in the finals.
And they, I feel like theyclearly proved that they were
the two best teams.
I mean, don't you, they were thetwo best teams.
Yep.
No question.
No doubt.
Well Coach, it was awesome totalk to you and thanks for
giving us all this time.
Really appreciate it.
Thank you.
Absolutely.
It was great.
It was, it was great.
Really appreciate it.
It really was on many levels.
So friends, what a, what atremendous job coach Kelly has
(41:45):
done.
Wrapping up.
The 2025 college lacrosse seasonand couldn't have thought of a
better way to, to polish thingsoff.
So thanks a million, Brian.
Thank you.
And we will, we'll sign off fromthere.
All right.
Take care.
Until we meet again.
Here's to hoping you find thetwine.
(42:06):
We're signing off here at theget the lax scoop.
Thanks again so much.
We will see you the next time.
It's time for Get the LackScoop, a podcast bringing you
all the people and stuff youshould know in the game of
lacrosse.
We take lack seriously, butourselves, not so much.
Join host Big Dog and Jaybirdand the biggest names in the
game brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training.
(00:23):
Ron Doglish, the big dog, was acollegiate football and lacrosse
player at Brown.
He was also an assistantlacrosse coach and the executive
director of the SportsFoundation.
And Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, athree time All American
midfielder at Brown.
He was the captain of the U.
S.
Junior National Team and is thefounder of JML.
(00:43):
And Joining us in the studio,Steve Grisolfi, who's collegiate
lacrosse career statisticsequals one goal against
Dartmouth brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training, helping the
next generation of lacrosseplayers get to the next level
all ladies and gentlemen,welcome to it's Jay.
(01:03):
It's a, it's a somber episodefor me because nothing I love
more than the college acrossseason.
And this is gonna be the collegewrap up episode of Get the Lack
Scoop.
It is a bit somber Ron.
And Tuesday I was a little downin the dumps and didn't really
know why, and then I realized,oh, it was the high of Memorial
Day weekend.
I'm coming off of that, but Iwas really looking forward to
(01:25):
airing this issue of get thelack scoop and having our next
guest on, so.
Jay, we have, we have I, I'm,I'm not gonna give away the name
of our guests, but this is kindof lacrosse family royalty here.
Oh my God.
I mean, big time.
Jay, you're high.
Good way to wrap up the collegeseason.
I can't imagine anyone who'smore closely connected to
(01:47):
college lacrosse and lacrosse ingeneral than this guy.
I mean, if you had a lacrossefootprint, this guy would be
Bigfoot, lacrosse, familyfootprint, veritable Sasquatch.
But let me get into this intro.
Yeah.
Our next guest is the head coachof the varsity lacrosse team at
Calvert Hall College HighSchool, a posties held since
(02:08):
1996.
He's been named Coach of theYear six times in 1996, his
inaugural season in 2003 whenCalvert Hall won its first
Maryland InterscholasticAthletic Association's, a
conference, which is the MIAALacrosse Championship.
The best.
High school lacrosse in thecountry.
(02:29):
Jay?
Hey, it's up.
It's up there.
Unquestionably, it's one of thebest I'm sure our guests will
attest to in 2012, when he ledthe team to its second
championship, as well as afterwinning conference titles in
2017 a year.
He was also named the All USABoys Coach of the Year by USA
today in 2018 and in 2019.
(02:51):
And that was an unprecedentedthree straight championships.
And of course, this past seasonthat just ended, he led the
Cardinals to their sixth and Iaa title the most by any program
since the league's inception.
He's a graduate of theUniversity of North Carolina,
where he was a political sciencemajor and a close defenseman for
(03:12):
the to heels as a senior in1991.
He was an All American selectionand a co-captain he helped the
heels achieve an undefeated NCAAchampionship season.
Please welcome to the show, theone, the only.
Brian Kelly, thanks for havingme, Jay.
It's good to see you guys again.
Rob.
I'm looking forward to it.
(03:32):
Awesome.
Kelly.
Great to see you, Jay.
And let's, let's just, let's getBrian used to how this goes.
Let's bring it to us.
It should have been us playingCarolina in that 91 National
Championship game.
Fricking baba Burle.
God TURPs.
It's bullshit.
Is that, is that who you guyslost to cab it back to us?
(03:55):
91.
I've got my, here's some justIvy League championship.
We were undefeated until we lostto the TURPs.
Yep.
Yeah.
Could've been undefeated Versusundefeated.
Should who, who, who still holdsthe NCAA playoff record for
saves in a game.
Wrong.
(04:16):
Rob Cabbott.
Really?
The 1991 Maryland team againstBrown.
What?
He had like 32.
32 Saves something crazysmaller.
Had at least 30 against us in 88in the quarterfinals.
Really?
Yeah.
That's unbelievable.
Absolute beast.
Yeah.
Something part of ours was badshooting.
They can't put Give it all tocavi it.
(04:38):
Yeah.
McMahon Christ, shooting it intoa stick.
God bless America.
Alright, Jay.
But, but let us, I digress, Jay.
Yeah.
Let's, let's pull forward tothis championship weekend we've
had.
I was sorry to miss the theFinal Four lead in show.
I, I, I did listen.
(04:58):
Coach Staria, Tom Towers did,did a great job, but but I'm
really looking forward totalking about this championship
weekend with someone who livedit as both apparent and a
lacrosse aficionado.
Let's, let's do a little, don'tknow.
Let's explain.
Brian's son is Daniel Kelly.
Yes.
He is a four year starter forthe TURPs.
(05:19):
Has been in three nationalchampionship games, won a
championship with them in 2022,and one of the top point getters
and goal scorers on the teamthis year.
Big number 45.
So it's been exciting watchinghis career.
Had a heck of a career.
Oh, thank you.
You were very proud of him.
Well, you definitely should be.
I mean, what an, what an amazingexperience and career he's had.
(05:40):
And I heard it.
I was doing a little researchand reading.
It was such a tough decision.
He's like, I'm really letting myfamily down.
I think he actually committed toUNC'cause Brian of course went
to u and he, he did some of hisbrothers, and I know his older
bro, brother Jacob Daniel'sbrother.
Yep.
And was like, I just, I'm sorry.
I want to, I wanna be a turf.
That like a tough, tough momentfor the family.
(06:02):
Not at all.
It was never needing toapologize at all.
I mean, for him, it justcommitted really young and then
as, as time went on and, and hejust really had a, a desire to
be a turp and coach told me whatrecruit, like when he opened up
his recruiting coach Tillmanrecruited him.
And it's interesting, after the,the Quarterfinal Georgetown
game, I just sent him a text,Daniel, after the game and just
(06:26):
saying how, you know, God's waysare better than our ways in so
many ways.
Things because it's just like,for him to make that decision to
go to Maryland and how great ofa decision it was for him to
play for just an amazing coachand coach Tillman and just to be
a part of.
You four opportunities to win anational championship and to
just to grow as a person and asa player there is he just has so
(06:49):
much to be thankful for, eventhough it didn't end the way we
all wanted it to end for him I,he wouldn't or nor we as a
family would've traded anythingfor, for that experience.
And a nice added bonus to have'em close to home too.
Right.
Yeah, it was great.
It was really nice.
Yeah, it was great.
So guys, let's get into talkingabout these games this weekend
(07:10):
and let's start with theMaryland, Syracuse semi-final.
And guys, you're gonna have tohelp me here.
I got to watch one half of Finalfour lacrosse'cause my daughter
was graduating on Saturday fromLafayette College, but the one
half I, well that is no excuse.
It's called a DVR.
I've watched these games toomany three times to prepare for
(07:31):
our.
All our listeners out there.
Come on.
Thank you.
Thank you Jay.
I'll carry it.
Appreciate that.
I'll carry it.
I was gonna segue into, Iapparently only needed to watch
one half of the SyracuseMaryland game'cause I caught the
first half and that was aboutall you needed to see.
'cause Maryland just dominatedSyracuse in that first half.
And I'm gonna leave it to youguys, but I'll just say that
(07:52):
that half seemed to me toepitomize kind of what Syracuse
was all year like I'm surprisedthey got as far as they did.
Right.
And like they could beunbelievable at times and then
at times it was kind of hard tofigure.
Yeah, also great creditobviously to, to Logan goal.
Well it, they were down Harvardin their playoff game, eight to
(08:15):
two, the same score at halftime.
And they could come back andthey had a few other games like
that that they were down, butyou're not coming back on the
TURPs.
So anyway.
Brian, what was your sense ofthat matchup and what led
Maryland to get off to such agreat start?
Yeah, I, I just think, well,Maryland defensively just shut
them down with Logan.
And then Shaller did a great jobon Lina, and, you know, Selina's
(08:37):
a great player.
And when you can take him away,that, that, that's huge.
And I also think our D mids werewere excellent against their top
mids, you know, and they did a,a really good job, good job of
just taking them away.
And I thought offensivelyMarilyn was very business-like
they really moved the ball and,and they were precise in their
offense and they just played avery efficient game from top to
(09:00):
bottom.
I think you're right.
I would've expected like WillShallow to play great, McNaney
to play great, but I wassurprised how well those D Mids
did.
You know, nothing, you know, tosay like, I didn't, you know,
that I underestimated them.
It's just that the Syracusemidfielders are very good.
They kind of initiate a lot oftheir offense through their
midfielder.
They do, they score a lot ofgoals and it was just like a
(09:22):
nothing burger out there.
I mean, it was like.
Forget it.
Look, I think d mids the secretsauce to win it.
If you have good shorts, stick Dmids.
Yeah.
It, it, it's, it's huge becauseyou don't have to slide and you
know, it's really the secretsauce.
And I think, you know, if youlooked at the two teams in that
championship, they both hadexcellent shorts stick D mid.
Right.
They carried the, the way forthem.
(09:43):
That's a great point.
They're kind of like the, thecornerbacks of the NFL.
Yeah.
Like they get picked on and ifthey're rock solid, you're gonna
be in great shape.
And if they're a little on theweak side, you're gonna be, it's
gonna be a long day.
So it's a good point.
And they're the guys that no onereally talks about, but they're
the guys that everyone in theirteam in the locker room know
that if we don't have theseguys, we don't win.
They're the unsu heroes to everyteam.
(10:05):
Right?
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, you were talking about theshort stick d mids.
I also think today in the, inthe clearing game, right, if you
got athletic d mids that can getthat ball up and out and start
offense on the other end is justhuge.
It's huge.
It's, it's huge.
And you know, like the one thingabout Maryland and just watching
them a lot, they're, they'revery good in transition and
(10:28):
teams tried to take theirtransition away because of their
DD mids are so good.
And, and their polls are withthe Kid Larkin and Jack
McDonald.
Those two both are two of thebest polls I've seen throughout
all of college, across and soit, and, and Maryland's clearing
game is the, the, the highestrated clearing game in, in all
(10:48):
across, it's over 90%.
So, you know, they, they clearedwith great efficiency in that
game against Syracuse.
Mark and had two goals.
Yep.
And, and they were getting upand down the field.
You're right.
Yeah.
One of the things just notesfrom the preview before was like
if the Syracuse Faceoff guy Ithink his name's Johnny Mullen.
(11:09):
Yep.
If he could dominate.
'cause he was like 62% for theyear.
Maryland was kinda like 51, 502%.
It was like, oh, if hedominates, that would be great.
He did fine, but it was morelike 46%, you know, he lost the
battle.
Yeah.
I mean, for whatever reason theyreally did well.
And then McCool played well onthat first half, really the
(11:30):
first quarter.
And next thing you know, it's,you know, it's eight to two
after that second quarter.
And it was like, you know, thosetwo areas of potential strength.
And, and they shut down thetransition game of Syracuse
quite significantly.
Yeah, they did.
And you have to, you know,'causethey're as skilled as any team
you're gonna face, you know,they get up and down and that's
what, you know, as a dadwatching it, you know, I never
(11:52):
felt comfortable, you know, itwas like 11 six.
I'm like, if they get it tofour, you know, Syracuse and get
a run.
And Maryland always did a goodjob with just never letting them
get to four, you know, they keptthem at five pretty much
throughout the game, so, yeah.
Yeah.
But particularly with thatSyracuse team, back to your d
midi point, Brian, if, if youcan win your matchups and not
(12:12):
slide, because boy, if you getsliding and trying to recover
against Syracuse, I, I've, attimes their ball movement
offensively was just off thecharts.
But if you're, if, if you canwin your matchups and not slide,
you kind of take'em outta thatgame.
Because, you know, Jay, you'vesaid before, they're not the
most physical athletic groupnecessarily.
(12:34):
Off to Dodge, you know?
Right.
So their secret sauce, when theywere really humming offensively
seemed to be in transition orgetting teams moving and sliding
and just, you know, moving theball faster than you could
recover defensively.
Right.
You really gotta play the ballwith them.
You can't let them dictate thetempo.
Yeah.
And if you just give them spaceand they, they have their hands
(12:57):
free.
They're, they're, they're, youknow, they can throw a behind
the back pass right.
On a dime, you know, like, yeah,you gotta be all over those
guys.
And that's what Marilyn did a, Ithought, did a really good job
in not letting them get anddictate the tempo offensively.
Yeah, absolutely.
That's kind of, and Jay, itseemed like in that game, number
45, kind led the TURPs offense.
I think three point performance,two and one in that game.
(13:21):
I think so.
Two and one.
I think Spanos had four in one,but Daniel Kelly, number 45 is
right there.
Jay, who's on the, the episodewith us today.
I'm, I'm just saying, looking atmy stats, that's all.
He was an absolute leader.
There's no question about it.
Yeah, Daniel had a good day, butit's, it's anything like he
(13:41):
lives off of others, so it was,it was really nice, you know,
and it's it, good thing aboutMaryland, it's, it's always
somebody different, every game,you know, a lot with the way
they play, so.
Right.
It's, it was, it kinda remindsyou of great, really great
championship teams are kindalike that when everybody's a
threat.
Yeah.
You can go back to, you know,look at so many different
(14:02):
sports.
I, I always look when theYankees were really good being a
New Yorker, it was in like 99and 2000 when every single guy
had like 20 home runs.
Like nobody hit 50, but all nineguys hit 20 plus.
So that's kind of what this,this TURPs team made me think of
that plus their defense.
Now defense is like the topranked defense in the country.
They had the best goalie in thecountry.
(14:24):
And then their offense thoughwas super solid.
They were all dangerous.
They moved the ball incrediblywell.
They're incredibly unselfish.
You know, that, that's thething.
I mean, with Tilt, like youwatch, they don't take bad
shots.
They don't shoot turnovers.
They're just very efficient.
You know, if you look at thestats of them that every kid is,
if they get six shots a game,that's a lot.
And you see some of these guyswho play get 22 shots a game and
(14:47):
you're like, you know, and theyscore three goals and
everybody's talking about theirthree goals, but I'm like,
shooting percentage is gross.
You know, so, you know, it's amatter of like, and then
whenever you shoot and you miss,you allow the.
Fence to reset and get back intotheir formation and you know,
you take'em out of the, the spinwhere tills does an amazing job
of making sure that these guystake the best shot.
(15:09):
Right?
Absolutely.
And I think some people aren'taware of that point.
You just said like, oh, youknow, the guy had three goals,
he took 20 shots.
It doesn't matter.
It does matter.
Right?
Like it does matter.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you're not, you're gonna beon the losing end nine times
outta 10 when you got someoneplaying like that.
So Yeah.
Yep.
That was the difference too.
Like for Syracuse when theyplayed Princeton, they were
beating guys off the Dodge andthey were causing slides to
(15:31):
happen and that just was nothappening with the TURPs.
So impressive.
Yeah.
So for looking at Tillman here,four to five years, he's been in
the finals nine outta 14seasons.
So not counting the 2020 seasonthey've been in the finals.
Yeah, it's amazing.
It's an absolute machine.
He's unreal.
(15:52):
It's amazing.
So, you know, one of thehighlights of the Lake Placid
tournament this summer waswatching Jay McMahon, I score to
John Tillman.
No, that was not it.
Watching Jay McMahon and JohnTillman get into a little, a
little fisticuffs, Brian, theywere a me pissed off at each
other.
I knew it was him was, it wassee I've got the replay.
He cut, I'm bending over for aground ball.
(16:13):
I'm being covered by a differentguy.
He runs in and like slams intome from behind.
I'm like, dude, I jump up andI'm like, what the heck?
And I sh I just like shove himoff.
I had no idea who it was.
Once I shoved, I realized it washim, but he didn't know it was
me.
And we, we know each other andhe's coming at me like literally
trying to swing at me.
I'm like, John, it's JayMcMahon.
(16:33):
He's, oh, okay.
All right.
Sorry.
Boy.
Nothing I.
I forgot.
I mean, it was, it was comedywatching these two 55-year-old
guys trying God to go out, outthere, dude.
It was like, that's hilarioushow you sit in Mayweather.
I mean, just, oh yeah.
That's how I would describe it.
Alright, fellas.
We had a stifling Marylanddefense.
(16:54):
We had Maryland sort ofoutrunning Syracuse, and you
have the best goalie in thecountry and the result is
Maryland's on to yet anotherchampionship game.
Let's move to the Cornell PennState game.
Let's do, Jay, let's start withyou.
What were your big impressionsof this one?
Well, I've got quite a number ofnotes here, Ron.
Oh yes.
In general, we go, here we go.
(17:16):
Bk, watch out.
It was amazing to see Cornellfunction basically without CJ
Cursed, right?
I mean, he had no points.
It was the first time he didn'thave a point.
He 66 games, so four years worthof lacrosse.
But they pulled it off.
You know, you gotta give PennState a ton of credit.
I mean, they played really well.
(17:36):
I thought, you know, when we didour little preview on this game
that the Cornell goalie might bea, a liability'cause he was a
bit of a liability againstRichmond, but he stepped up big
time.
He had like six saves in thefirst quarter.
That was as many, I think hetied a save number in that
compared to that Richmond game.
But he finished with nine saves,which was good enough for 50%.
(17:58):
Alex Ross, the defense memberfor Penn State, did a great job
on CJ Hurst.
But it was great to see allthese other guys step up.
So that's, that's what I'llstart off with.
Brian.
What do you think?
I, I mean, I thought too, whenPenn State got in the zone
defense, it really stifledCornell.
I mean, yeah.
You know, as a, again, I'mwatching it from my Maryland
(18:18):
goggles and like Maryland, wedon't zone, they don't, so I was
like, God, if we had a zone,this could be really good.
'cause I was not enamored withCornell Zone offense at that
game, but they would've figuredit out anyhow.
And you know, it says a lotabout Cornell when you can win,
when your best player doesn'thave any points, you know?
And I think I go back to thetime when Yale won the national
(18:40):
championship and their best, Ithink it was Reeves and I, I had
so much respect for Reeves.
I, I think it was his, becausehe didn't score many points in
that game and he was totallycontent with just doing it.
And it was the same thing withCJ Kirk.
Like, I don't think he cared ifhe scored a goal or not.
All he wanted to do was win.
And that just says so much abouthim and his team and why
(19:02):
they're, you know, you know,such a great team voice in the
championship in so many ways.
Point, I mean, he led the teamand caused turnovers for the
season and he did have a handfulon their ride, you know, cause
turnovers in that game againstPenn State.
So, yeah, it's a great point.
They ride great.
They're an unbelievable ridingteam.
Best riding team I saw play allyear.
(19:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
And you know, beyond just the CJcursing, when you flash ahead to
how the championship game playsout, you know, the, I mean they
got a, they had a lot of depthon that offense, but arguably
they're two best players.
Kirsten Goldstein combined forone goal.
Right.
You know, Ryan had one goal.
So between, if you, cj, if yougo into that game and say Cursed
(19:44):
and Goldstein are gonna have onepoint.
You're saying, wow, Penn State'sgot a hell of a chance to pull
off the upset here, which bringsyou back to, I think Brian, what
you were saying, maybe evenbefore we got on air.
That's the sign of achampionship team, right?
When, when you can get that kindof depth and balance and win a
semifinal game with, you know,ar arguably your two best
(20:08):
offensive players giving you onepoint, you got a hell of a team,
right?
KT has over a hundred points andRyan Goldstein has 90 or 92, and
the golds from their faceoffguy, they got a goal and assist
from a long pole who's alsoanother Garden City guy.
What's his name?
Oh, stop, Brendan.
Stop.
And then their two of theirsecond line mid scored and then
(20:31):
Wilhelm scored.
And then of course their big guyKelleher, Adam MacArthur Hugh
Kelleher had three goals intothe cyst, so he was huge.
And then of course, Michael Longplayed great.
Their third attack man,basically.
But yeah, I mean that, thatonce, once that happened, I was
like, wow.
You know, they, they're, they'relegit.
They could take on the TURPs.
(20:51):
I mean, the TURPs are a powerfulteam, obviously been there
before.
And I was like, I don't know ifCornell can, can, you know,
stand toe to toe with them.
But once they did that, I waslike, okay, game on.
Yeah.
They, they were impressive.
Yeah.
I think you brought up anotherthing.
You know, I, I, I wondered allalong, based on some, having
(21:12):
seen some of I.
Cornell's defense, and as yousaid, they're a goalie play, but
they give up single digits inboth the semi-final and the
final.
And if there was a weakness onthat team I think it was
defensively and in the goal.
And so you gotta give a lot ofcredit to that unit that really
(21:33):
stepped up.
And, and also thinking aboutCornell, you know, they're down
five four in that semi-finalgame to a Penn State team that's
running, riding a lot ofmomentum, you know, coming outta
the quarterfinals and they're upfive four at the half and what
does Cornell do?
Comes out and just drops thehammer and, and it, and it seems
like it's kind of game overafter that third quarter, right?
(21:54):
Yeah, that third quarter turnedout to be a six one run and they
just kind of took control.
And at the end of the third itwas nine seven.
I.
And they, they made a ten seven.
Then you had a nice little runfor I guess it was actually
probably 9, 9, 6 at the end ofthe third, because then I
remember you get, you get it alittle back and forth in the
(22:15):
fourth, and next thing you knowit's 10 to nine.
So Penn State's really coming onand then Hugh Kelleher scores
his third to give him that twogoal lead.
And then eventually, I thinkthey won 12 nine.
I mean, you look at Cornell,they.
They find different ways toscore, you know, they can score
six on six.
They were not really scoring sixon six in the second half.
A lot of it was transition oroff of a failed clear or, you
(22:38):
know, a, a ride back of a hustleplay.
Right.
You know, and, you know, a lotof those things are what makes
them so dangerous that I dothink going into the
championship game, I know that'sone of the things that Marilyn
was really worried about was howthey, how they rode and, and,
and what they do really well isthey're probably one of the best
restart teams you see.
(22:58):
Like if there's a, a play onsituation, they restart faster
than anyone I've seen.
And they, they did that in thenational championship game as
well.
Right.
And that's usually one of thestrengths of Maryland, I would
say.
Yeah.
Is this quick restart.
And they did get them on acouple restarts, which was kind
of a shocker.
Well, gentlemen, it seems likeit's time to move on to the
championship game, which I didhave the pleasure of attending.
(23:22):
Brian, I will say that I was,oh, Ron, if I could cut you off.
Oh God.
Are you gonna share more?
One more.
Have you not gotten throughenough of your notes?
Jay?
How about a little homage toTam?
Tam Bro's.
Been in the finals with Cornell.
Yep.
With just a heartbreaking lossof Syracuse.
Oh my gosh, that was rough.
Back in, was that 2009?
Somewhere back there.
(23:42):
Yeah.
And then three semi-finals withPenn State.
So, you know, and I feel likehe's another coach who's, you
know, I mean obviouslyMaryland's really good, but I
feel like Tillman's just gettinga lot out of his players.
So same thing for Tam bro.
And that they are really toughin the playoffs.
I mean, they're good regularseason, obviously, they're the
only team who did beat Cornellduring the regular season, but
still they had four losses.
(24:05):
But I mean, holy cow, in theplayoffs, they're just really
tough.
I mean, so.
Good, good for Coach Tam Brown.
He's a great coach.
Great coach.
No doubt.
Okay, Ron.
Jay, are we ready Now?
Move on.
I, I agree.
That was a nice recognition,well deserved for Coach Tam
Brown.
Absolutely.
And I mean, you know, when wethink about the three of us
(24:27):
growing up, who the hell wasPenn State?
Right.
I mean, it's, it's anotherindication of how far the game's
common to think, Brian, thatthat, you know, if you would've
told us that Maryland would bein the Big 10 and that, that
would be an unbelievablelacrosse conference, we've
looked at you like you had eightheads.
Right.
You know, with Ohio State andPenn State, like Right.
(24:47):
Notre Dam even.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Holy cow.
True.
So it's a tremendous, and thenyou can say the Big 10 could be
the best conference in all oflacrosse this past year.
You know?
I know.
If you think about it.
Yeah.
And you could have said that acouple times in the last five
years.
Yeah.
Question.
Of course, I'm throwing NotreDame in there.
Everyone knows they're a C.
But just saying these Midwesternteams, like when we were
(25:08):
playing, they, they may have hadteams, but we didn't know that.
I don't know if they did or not,but we def if we were asked when
we were seniors in 91, if theyhad teams, the answer would've
been no, they don't.
Yeah, very true.
Oh my God, it's amazing.
So now we move on to the thechampionship game and Brian,
you, you, I think probablythought about this game a lot
(25:30):
more than Jay and I over the 48hours leading into it, I'm sure.
And and so what was your sensegoing into that game?
What did you think Marilyn hadto do to win that game?
And then how did, how did thosethings play out?
Good question, Ron.
That's usually something I wouldask, but nice work.
It's interesting my son Daniel,he, he's my, I have five boys
(25:53):
and they're all very different.
And Daniel calls me, we talk allthe time, like he's the guy
who's always filling me in,like, this is our game plan.
It's what we gotta do.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They, yeah.
They sit on the broadcast thathe's like a coach.
Tell me Yeah.
Insider info of like, what theirconcerns were and what, you
know, and I, I, I think going inlike where Marilyn honestly was
(26:13):
really worried about Cornell isand is how they ride.
They ride really hard.
They felt like they couldn'tgive him transition.
If you give'em transition, it'sgonna be tough.
And if you watch, I thoughtMarilyn did a really good job.
And then they were veryconcerned about their restarts
and their ultimate goal was notto give them like a failed
clear.
Goal.
(26:34):
And if you look at the fourthquarter, they got two, maybe
three failed clear goals, likeextra possessions.
And if you fail clear you, youknow, you stop'em for 60
seconds, then you fail a clearand they get a brand new 60.
It's really tough to stop teamstwice.
And that's what happened towardsthe end, you know, and so the
very thing that they wereworried about is what, you know,
(26:57):
Cornell did a great job in.
And I just felt like, you know Ihave a nephew on Cornell, so I
got all the info from my brotherFrank about that from, you know,
telling me everything.
Going into the game on theCornell side, as we said before,
there's not a team.
This guy's not somehow connectedto the lacrosse family footprint
of Sasquatch.
So it was you know, it was asplit family thing going there,
(27:17):
but it was you know, but youknow, I, so that was the main
thing for what Marilyn wasworried about with Cornell.
You know, and again, I think theface offs was, was a concern
just because that kid's done sowell.
But I have to tell you, the twokids from Maryland, they were
just amazing all year.
Yeah.
They always found a way to, tobattle.
And that has to do with thekids.
And I just think it's a lot withthe coaching, they, they
(27:39):
prepared these kids.
So in incred, I don't thinkthere's only one game that maybe
we struggled at the X, but allyear long these, these kids
found a way to wing, win the,the draws and battle with the
wing play, but mm-hmm.
So that was the main things thatMarilyn had concerns going in,
that they felt like they reallyneeded to take away and, and do
a good job against.
(28:00):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
I mean,'cause rewatching thegame, kind of just sitting back
when you know pretty much what'sgonna happen, you can really
take it in more.
And just take note of exactlywhat you said.
It was like, I think it wasthree failed clears that led
directly to goals, and if not,it led to more possessions that
eventually led to a goal.
And it was like that, you know,it kind of, it felt like to me
(28:23):
just sitting there during thegame, like, okay, Cornell's kind
of got it.
My wife went to Cornell, youknow?
Yeah.
He's rooting for Cornell.
I, I'm leaning on their side alittle bit, like, all right,
they're up by a couple.
But in the end, you know, whenit became a one goal game, it
was the difference of gettingthe ball back on that as they
were trying to clear the ball.
This is the number one clearingteam in the whole country,
right?
Yeah.
And this is Maryland.
That was just bizarre.
(28:44):
It was 10 to nine, it was theirstrength, right?
It was 10 to nine.
And if they, I really felt ifMaryland could get it to 10, 10.
That you know, and they, you andthen they get Cornell starting
to white knuckle a little bitlike ugh.
Hadn't even time.
Yeah, you do.
You start to in a long time.
Yeah.
It was anybody's game.
You go back prior to the failclear Spanners had an incredible
(29:06):
shot and that goalie made anincredible save and that
would've tied to the game.
10.
10.
They clear it.
Maryland, you know, stops'em.
And then we have a failed clearon a ten nine where if we got
it, we had an opportunity to getit to 10.
10.
Right.
And you know, a failed clear,they get the ball, they score,
(29:27):
they're up by two.
Another failed clear scorethere, you know, so, you know,
just it, that's what happened.
And it's so uncharacteristic forMarilyn, but at the end of the
day, you have to give Cornellcredit.
Like the one time Larkin has theball running up the field on a
clear, another opportunity toclear the ball, cursed.
At the midline takes the ballaway, away outta stick.
(29:49):
Like, yeah.
And that does not happen to AJLarkin ever.
Like he is ever.
And you know, like, it, itagain, it, it was, you know,
part of it isn't what Marilyndidn't do, it had to do with
what Cornell strength didstrength for Cornell, right.
Was strength versus strength.
Right.
They're sitting back in thatride and somehow, before you
(30:11):
know, it Maryland only has likefive or six seconds to clear it.
It's like 66 seconds on theclock or whatever.
And it was like, so they feltpressured, it seemed like, and
so I, well, I don't really wannaclear.
Yeah.
I don't feel like it was a big,you know, huge mistake so much
by Maryland.
It was just like great playsjust happened to develop for
Cornell.
I mean, it was definitely astrength for them.
(30:32):
That ride.
It was crazy.
Well, I felt like Cornell wonthe midline to mid to the
restraining line.
The restraining line.
They were phenomenal between therestraining line and restraining
line.
Right.
They were, they won a lot ofthose, those ground balls.
And then, like you said though,in, in a lot of games that can
happen where it did seem likeCornell was really dominating.
But what do they have to showfor it?
They only got a one goal lead.
(30:53):
Yeah.
In that fourth quarter.
It's like all that.
And, you know, the game couldhave been taken from'em.
'cause Maryland was just thattough.
So it, it was a heck of a game.
Guys, have you ever seen, Ican't remember a game.
At that level of lacrosse whereyou had more faceoffs that
turned into like what seemedlike 92nd six guy scrums, just
(31:18):
freaking battling.
I mean, it was, I know really inthe championship games.
Yeah.
They're like, I don't know ifthis is the, looks like a bunch
of 70 year olds.
And the commentator said, or abunch of 10 year olds.
It was like, no, it's just likeno one can get that ball.
It's just, but it seemed Cornellwould always pop up and get it,
like it would be a scrum for awhile and then all of a sudden
(31:40):
one of the Cornell kids would,would get it.
And I think the stats are verymisleading.
You know, it looks like it waseven in ground balls and Yeah.
Face off Marilyn won Faceoffsand Yep.
You know that, but at the end ofthe day, like Marilyn would win
the face off and then theCornell kid would strip it and
get the ball.
So, like for me, I always thinka faceoff stat shouldn't, you
shouldn't count a win until youget into the office.
He gets the possession.
(32:00):
Right.
Who gets, yeah.
I don't think if you pick up aground ball and they give you a
win, it, it doesn't matter.
It's till you get possession inthe box to me, is what they
should count as the stat forface off.
And Cornell just was disruptive.
They were just reallydisruptive.
Yeah.
And Brian, that's like, youknow, if, if you, if you think
about the Maryland teams, likeif you're telling me.
(32:23):
This game's gonna turn into kindof a tough on the ground, kind
of scrumming it up.
That's a, that's like a trade ofMaryland.
Like I think Tillman has histeams play so tough and
fundamentally sound, and they'reusually, they are a team that's
great off the ground, you know,and they're very physical in
their, in their approach to thatpart of the game.
So again, back to what you said,this is not something where
(32:46):
Maryland is weak or they weren'tbattling.
But you gotta give Cornellcredit.
I mean, they really did playhard, but then as you said.
Man, I would, I I, you couldfeel when it got to ten nine,
the things got tense in a hurryin that stadium.
'cause it kind of felt likeCornell was in control.
In control.
In control.
Mm-hmm.
And then, and then just as we'retalking about those very
(33:09):
uncharacteristic,uncharacteristic,
uncharacteristic, thank you.
Failed clears.
Here's another, say two.
Yeah, go ahead Ron.
I was gonna say another,another, you know, key that I
would add.
I mean, you know, Logan McEnanywas just.
Throughout the year.
Some, I mean, he could just shutthe door on you and he played
(33:30):
really well.
But if you, if you walk intothat game and say the Cornell
goalie is gonna have one moresaved than him, that's another
thing where I gotta give Cornellcredit like that.
I don't think that was astrength of theirs.
And you know, Wyatt reallystepped up, I think in those
last couple games.
And as you said, that Save onSpanos and I, here's another
(33:52):
impression.
I mean, he looks big on tv.
I have not seen them play liveuntil the championship game.
Holy.
Mm-hmm.
Crap.
Is he a load man?
A lot?
Yeah, he's a big boy.
Oh yeah.
He, he's, oh, and the defenseone huge too.
Right?
He's, he's not fast, but he'sgot great feet and control and
kind of slickness got, he gotthem hung up a couple times in
(34:13):
that two man game.
And, and smart.
Smart player.
Smart player.
Yeah.
He is a handful.
Oh yeah, he is.
He, he is.
And that shot by Spanish was avery good shot.
You know, like, I don't thinkMarilyn shot very well
personally, and they had acouple, like a lot of pipes and
things, but and that, but the,the Cornell goalie stepped up,
(34:36):
man.
He played great.
And their defense, which you'reright, Ron was, their weakness
was, was solid.
They played really well and andthey played really well in both.
Semi-final in, in, in, in, inthe final.
So they, those guys did anoutstanding job.
And one thing I'll say too thatRyan Goldstein, I mean they list
him at five eight or five nine.
(34:57):
I saw him at the final four, Ithink it was last year.
Just like a pre-game thing.
I mean, he is five seven, I'mtelling you.
And he is, I don't know that heis 145 pounds.
And he is tough though.
I mean, he took an absolutehammer of a hit very next
whistle, the balls, he takes theball on the end line, goes right
(35:18):
at Canfield, does a split roll,gets underneath and goes in and
scores.
And I thought he was going to, Ithought he was like knocked
outta the game, the play before.
So I gotta, I give him a ton ofcredit.
And on top of the fact that hewas not recruited anywhere like
they thought they were doing.
Tim Goldstein, his dad whoplayed when we played naturally
was the player of the year.
Think in 88 or 89, he, doing hima favor by putting Ryan on the
(35:42):
team.
And now I'm not so sure you knowwho got the favor there?
Yeah.
He's only a sophomore.
Got 90 points and the toughnessand then he had another complete
one-on-one.
And I was surprised.
One thing, after watching thosetwo games in a row, I watched
the Penn State Cornell game andthen Cornell, Maryland, the
championship.
And Penn State reallyneutralized, cursed by even when
(36:03):
they were playing man to man.
It was like as if they wereplaying zone.
Yeah.
They were really helping.
And it seemed like Maryland wasdetermined not to slide.
'cause I replayed those times.
When Goldstein's going to thegold, no one is even looking at
him, they're like face guardingtheir guys.
And then the same thing forcursed.
So I mean, you know, tough to,to criticize a coach like Coach
Tillman who's probably the mostsuccessful guy he's ever
(36:25):
coached.
But that was one thing I noticedthat he, they, they really
didn't try to help out thatmuch.
What, what do you guys Yeah, Iwas very going into the game, me
personally, I was always worriedabout the Goldstein matchup,
just with the way Marilyn'sdefense is built.
Uhhuh, they don't have that realquick defender besides Shaller
and you know, Canfield's anawesome defender, but he's
(36:47):
always covering the two.
Ander's covering the one andhe's like a bigger guy.
Yeah.
And then the glue guy, believeit or not, is the, the, the guy
who's the glue to that defenseis Burla, you know, Uhhuh.
And he's covering long.
So you kind of knew Les wasgonna go long, you weren't sure
is Shaller gonna go Goldstein orShaller gonna go curse and you
know, you gotta go withshallower on Cursed.
And he did a great job in onCurse.
(37:09):
And even though Curse had sixgoals, but they did a good job
of getting cursed on othermatchups.
And he could get underneath, youknow, he might have scored on
Shaller once, but I think hescored on the other guys watch
the time he got underunderneath.
Yeah.
And there wasn't, and then theone on Goldstein, I think that
the one that he scored where he,you know, ran at Canfield and,
and got underneath pretty quick.
(37:30):
I, I, I, I think that was abreakdown off ball from watching
it in the stands.
Like, I just don't think, youknow,'cause there was like, I
think there was like 10 secondsleft on the clock of, of the
shot clock on it, you know?
Mm-hmm.
And guys are looking to findtheir guys.
I, I, I think that was a, likea, a mistake made by the
players.
Not that they weren't gonnasell.
(37:51):
Yeah.
That they might've.
Okay.
Yeah.
That they were thinking, okay,not much in the shot clock.
They're gonna go for a feed.
He was, he was beat so bad thatWell that's, that's what I was
gonna say, Brian.
He was beat like 10 yards fromthe goal.
That was a Oh boy.
Yeah.
In fact we were, but after that,Cansfield played a great, he
never got beat again, you knowwhat I mean?
It was that one time.
And you give Goldstein space andyou give him that dodge from the
(38:14):
corner.
There's no one that can is gonnacover him like Right.
He's, he's and I, and I wouldonly mention his name'cause he
is a great defenseman.
I mean, been, it's not like he'sbeating someone who's not good.
So like Yeah, I mean, he's aheck of a defenseman.
He, he is unreal.
Like, it's amazing on how manygood kids in Marilyn's team that
aren't all Amer, like he's anall American type defenseman.
Mm-hmm.
And again, like we all get beat.
(38:35):
I'm a defender, you know, youall are gonna have those
moments.
And you know, if you look at hisoverall performance of the game,
he was outstanding in Canfield.
But that was just that onemoment where I felt like he was
kind of left on an island andmm-hmm.
The help wasn't there for him.
You know, he did his job, he gotbeat underneath, you know, he
didn't get beat top side and,and there was just no help.
(38:55):
Right.
What a, and you know, at theend, at the end of the day, Jay,
I will, I will take some credithere.
You can go back and Oh, andlisten to, to me, of course
you'll Ron me predicting thatCornell was gonna get to the
finals.
I did miss the other one, but,but of course you did.
I I did, I did think, of courseyou did.
When you, when you look back,back, pick the Hoyas over your
TURPs.
I did.
Brian did, can believe this guy.
(39:16):
I did.
I did.
I did pick that upset.
I did, I did not.
Anyway not close, but you know,when you, when you, when you
look, if you wanna oversimplifythis game and you look at teams
that have won nationalchampionships, the better
players, the best players makingbig plays, and you know, in this
game you got Goldstein and cursecombining for 10 goals versus
(39:40):
one point in the semi-final.
So, you know, and, and thatsnow, as you were just saying,
Brian, that there is not abetter defense than that
Maryland, that, that Marylanddefense, right.
But you know, on this day, thosetwo players just stepped up and
made big time plays, which iswhat you gotta do to win
championships, you know?
(40:00):
Yeah.
And you gotta give them credit.
They did.
They did a great job.
And look, coach Bernhardt isprobably one of the, if not the
best defensive coordinator inthe game, you know, for
Maryland.
And he's always got these guysprepared and ready to go.
And you know, when you have two.
Players like Goldstein and, and,and curse it.
It's, it's, that makes thingstough.
(40:20):
They're, they're, you got two,number one attack men on your
team, you know, and Right.
You gotta pick your poison.
Right.
Absolutely.
Well, good stuff.
It, it was a great game.
No doubt about it.
And then, you know what I wantedto mention too was the sports
center that night, I just DVR'dit.
The lead in to the whole, youknow, hour of SportsCenter was
(40:42):
the national championship game.
It was great.
They're like, you know, MemorialDay.
So it was more Memorial Daynight, let's say.
And they're like, there's, thereare like some one-off great
sports moments in baseball,basketball, you know, if it
happens.
But there's only one sport thatdedicates their championship to
Memorial Day and that is D onemen's lacrosse.
And they, that's how they ledthe show in.
(41:02):
And they did like a nice littletwo, three minutes highlight.
It was just great.
I was like, look at this.
That's awesome.
Going prime time.
Yeah, it's cool.
All right guys, wellcongratulations to both tho
those teams.
I mean you know, at the end ofthe day you usually end up with
the two best teams and I thinkwe did right.
And it was the first time inmaybe 20 years that one versus
(41:23):
two met in the finals.
And they, I feel like theyclearly proved that they were
the two best teams.
I mean, don't you, they were thetwo best teams.
Yep.
No question.
No doubt.
Well Coach, it was awesome totalk to you and thanks for
giving us all this time.
Really appreciate it.
Thank you.
Absolutely.
It was great.
It was, it was great.
Really appreciate it.
It really was on many levels.
So friends, what a, what atremendous job coach Kelly has
(41:45):
done.
Wrapping up.
The 2025 college lacrosse seasonand couldn't have thought of a
better way to, to polish thingsoff.
So thanks a million, Brian.
Thank you.
And we will, we'll sign off fromthere.
All right.
Take care.
Until we meet again.
Here's to hoping you find thetwine.
(42:06):
We're signing off here at theget the lax scoop.
Thanks again so much.
We will see you the next time.
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