In this episode of 'Get the Lax Scoop' podcast, hosts Big Dawg and Jaybird talk to Bryan Kelly, head coach of the boys varsity lacrosse team at Calvert Hall College High School and a former collegiate athlete and All American at the University of North Carolina. Coach Bryan shares memories of his early lacrosse days influenced by his brothers and coaches, his collegiate success, and his experiences on the U19 U.S.A. National Team. They explore his coaching philosophy centered on focusing on the process over the outcome and discuss the foundation of JML skills, mindset, and lacrosse IQ training. The episode also touches on how personal family dynamics and formative experiences shaped Bryan's lacrosse journey.
00:00 Introduction to Get the Lax Scoop
00:23 Meet the Hosts: Big Dog and Jaybird
01:29 Special Guest: Bryan Kelly's Impressive Background
03:11 Bryan Kelly's Early Lacrosse Journey
05:43 Family Influence and High School Lacrosse
07:34 Founding FCA Lacrosse and Its Impact
09:32 Vail Shootout Memories
11:18 Mindset and Mental Performance Mastery in Lacrosse
15:59 Bryan Kelly's U19 National Team Experience
21:47 Carolina's 1991 Championship Team
24:33 Conclusion and Teaser for Next Episode
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
It's time for Get the LackScoop, a podcast bringing you
all the people and stuff youshould know in the game of
lacrosse.
We take lack seriously, butourselves, not so much.
Join host Big Dog and Jaybirdand the biggest names in the
game brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training.
(00:23):
Ron Doglish, the big dog, was acollegiate football and lacrosse
player at Brown.
He was also an assistantlacrosse coach and the executive
director of the SportsFoundation.
And Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, athree time All American
midfielder at Brown.
He was the captain of the U.
S.
Junior National Team and is thefounder of JML.
(00:43):
And Joining us in the studio,Steve Grisolfi, who's collegiate
lacrosse career statisticsequals one goal against
Dartmouth brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training, helping the
next generation of lacrosseplayers get to the next level
Jay, we have, we have I, I'm,I'm not gonna give away the name
(01:03):
of our guests, but this is kindof lacrosse family royalty here.
Oh my God.
I mean, big time.
Jay, you're high.
Good way to wrap up the collegeseason.
I can't imagine anyone who'smore closely connected to
college lacrosse and lacrosse ingeneral than this guy.
I mean, if you had a lacrossefootprint, this guy would be
Bigfoot, lacrosse, familyfootprint, veritable Sasquatch.
(01:27):
But let me get into this intro.
Yeah.
Our next guest is the head coachof the varsity lacrosse team at
Calvert Hall College HighSchool, a posties held since
1996.
He's been named Coach of theYear six times in 1996, his
inaugural season in 2003 whenCalvert Hall won its first
Maryland InterscholasticAthletic Association's, a
(01:49):
conference, which is the MIAALacrosse Championship.
The best.
High school lacrosse in thecountry.
Jay?
Hey, it's up.
It's up there.
Unquestionably, it's one of thebest I'm sure our guests will
attest to in 2012, when he ledthe team to its second
championship, as well as afterwinning conference titles in
2017 a year.
(02:11):
He was also named the All USABoys Coach of the Year by USA
today in 2018 and in 2019.
And that was an unprecedentedthree straight championships.
And of course, this past seasonthat just ended, he led the
Cardinals to their sixth and Iaa title the most by any program
(02:33):
since the league's inception.
He's a graduate of theUniversity of North Carolina,
where he was a political sciencemajor and a close defenseman for
the to heels as a senior in1991.
He was an All American selectionand a co-captain he helped the
heels achieve an undefeated NCAAchampionship season.
Please welcome to the show, theone, the only.
(02:54):
Brian Kelly, thanks for havingme, Jay.
It's good to see you guys again.
Rob.
I'm looking forward to it.
Awesome.
Kelly.
Great to see you, So Jay, shallwe transition to a little bit
more about our guest and maybesome questions for him?
Let's do that Ron.
Let's do that.
So so Brian, transitioning toyou and, and your lacrosse
(03:14):
career.
You know, one of the thingsthat's been fun for Jay and I
is, you know, bringing people onwho we may know and know their
career and know all the thingsthey've done, but we don't
actually know how it started forthem, you know?
So it's been kind of cool to askpeople like, what are your first
memories of lacrosse?
And like, where did it start andwho were the people who really
(03:34):
influenced you when you firstpicked up a stick?
Well it the, we never knew whatlacrosse was growing up as a
family.
My brother John was the firstone.
I'm one of four boys.
I'm the youngest, so my oldestis Brother Frank and my second
brother's John.
And then I had a brother namedDavid and myself and my brother
John was probably like 13 or 12and he started to play lacrosse
(03:58):
and we were also playingbaseball and you know, we'd go
watch him play and I'm like, ah,this is pretty cool.
And then we all felt like thisis so baseball's way too boring
for us.
And so we all started playingand I was probably 10 when I
started playing lacrosse.
And you know, I played for aville rec council and I was very
fortunate.
I had an amazing coach and a guynamed Bob Prader and he coached
(04:20):
me from Midget a's all the wayup to Junior a's this is what it
was back in the day in the reccouncil side.
And he just, and I had anotherguy named Wes Bacher who played
at Hopkins.
And just.
They, they, I was playingmidfield and they were like,
Hey, look, you're a really goodmidi, but we need a defender.
Will you play defense for us?
And I was like, yeah, I'll dowhatever you want me to do.
(04:41):
And ended up playing defense andthey would never let me throw
checks.
They taught me how to playfundamental defense at a young
age.
And they gave me that foundationof how to play.
And so I, I, I look back tothose young days of like, they
were the key for of how, how Ibecame, you know, a defender.
(05:02):
They taught me how to play.
That's awesome.
That's really cool.
And you know, as we mentioned alittle bit in the opening there,
that your, if your family had alacrosse footprint, it would
probably be Sasquatch with your,so it's four older brothers.
Four, three older brothers.
I'm one of four, three olderbrothers.
Okay.
That's what I thought.
You're one of four.
Right?
And in fact, Frank was my coachat Cornell Lacrosse camp.
(05:24):
Yeah.
When I was like in eighth grade,probably 84, maybe, something
like that.
I think I was there 80, 45,something like that.
I was at that camp too.
Oh really?
That is so funny.
And I got a que I got alistener's question from Coach
Andy Towers for you from thatcamp.
Yeah, yeah.
But that's at the end.
But anyway, so there, you know,what was it like as you were
(05:45):
getting older, you know, with,with all three brothers playing
and you're getting into middleschool, getting into high
school, what kind of influencedid they have on your high
school play and on your, youknow, your desire to pursue it
into playing in college?
I mean, they, they had a huge,you know, influence on me.
You know, they would make meplay goalie in the backyard and
(06:05):
shoot on me.
And then that's how I probablybecame a defender and made me a
defender.
Yeah, I think they, you knowthey we would just do
one-on-ones and then justwatching, you know, I would
watch'em play, go to every game,and I always say Moore's caught
than taught.
And I just would just watchlacrosse and I think it really
helped me being the youngestjust to see.
Yeah.
At that time you didn't go up tothe Cornell Games where my
(06:27):
brother went, you know, but myother brother went to Washington
College.
I'd watch some of his games, andthen my brother David and I
played together at Calvert Hall.
And you know, he was an attackman.
I was a defender, so he, hedefinitely had an influence.
Some one-on-ones in thebackyard.
We did two one ones, theBackyard Practice.
It's a funny story.
I, so he went to Carolina and Igot recruited and it was down to
(06:49):
Maryland and Carolina for me.
And I loved Dick Ade.
Like I love, he's great guy.
Dick Ade.
Yeah.
And at the end of the day, Ididn't wanna play against my
brother, so I was like, I'm, I'mgonna go to Carolina.
So that's the only reason Ireally chose Carolina, is I
didn't wanna play against mybrother.
Well, then I had to play againsthim every day in practice, you
(07:11):
know, and it's like you know,for fighting for Star, the
playing time.
And I, I didn't think aboutthat, so it was like, but it was
a great experience for me.
So they, he helped me a ton andthey helped me just as you know,
you guys, when you go throughit, it's more the mental of
like, you know, highs and lowsof, you know, high college
across, you know, you just haveto have people you can talk to
and they, they help meimmensely.
(07:32):
Right.
That's great.
Good stuff.
And then doing a little researchcame across the fact that your
older brother, I think it wasFrank, he founded FCA, the cross
the travel, I.
Lacrosse part?
Well, he, he, he founded likethe, the, the, the overall
national program.
So in 1992 Okay.
Was the first time we all wentout to Veil and we had that
(07:52):
miracle on the mountain with theFCA team and we beat the green
turtle.
Yeah.
And we were a bunch of rag tags.
It was myself and like GeorgeGly.
We were the only two, like the,and Steve pta, that's it.
We only had three defenders andthen we had some high school
kid, and then we had my brother,Frank and some other guys.
But I think we were the onlyteam that wasn't out there
overly partying.
And we played the gates and andpet all those guys on the green
(08:14):
turtle.
We were out there too.
Yeah.
And we lost in the championshipto Mount Washington.
And, but that was the firstexperience of FCA.
Really?
That's so fun.
And it just.
Came and started growing.
And then we did these littleprograms.
And then, believe it or not, mywife and I started the cl, the
local club in Maryland, FCA.
Okay.
Because we would take all of ourkids to veil on these national
(08:36):
teams and they would get thisexperience, but then they would
come back home and they wouldkind of like the mountaintop
experience of impact, just kindof with withered away.
And so we came up with this ideaof starting the club and just to
try to really have an impact onkids and being in high school,
you just saw like.
These kids need it more thanjust lacrosse.
(08:57):
'cause sometimes lacrosse isyour whole identity and you're,
it's like your God, it's justnot a good God, you know?
And then, right.
These guys through FCA, it, it,it gives you the foundations of,
of Judeo-Christian values andhow to play one way to play drug
and alcohol free.
You know, the importance of, youknow, building your house on a
firm foundation and, and soforth.
(09:18):
And so we helped start it from2012 to 14 and then I got out of
running it and then I just beencoaching my son's teams, so I
gotcha.
That's cool.
Good deal.
Good background.
Just sounds like Brian's Vailexperience was slightly
different than ours.
Yes.
(09:38):
It was good for him.
Oh my god.
We could have used a little,little detox.
Yeah.
We could have used the littlestewardship.
A little come to Jesus would'vebeen nice too.
Oh my.
You'll get it.
I got it later in life.
I always, I always say though,that tournament was.
The most fun, no doubt.
And some of the best lacrosse Iever got to play, it was no
(09:59):
doubt.
I mean, those teams were juststacked right at McCabe Kisser.
It was unreal.
It was you know, it was, youknow, you had MAB paints, you
had like, you know, you had teamColorado was great to, to Green
Turtle, to, you know, MountWashington.
It was, it was just so much fun.
Thanks for, thanks formentioning the New York Athletic
Club team and the New YorkAthletic Club.
(10:21):
Yeah, yeah.
Uhhuh Uhhuh.
They usually lost in the firstround though.
No, I'm just kidding.
They, they were, I think we madethe semis now.
You guys were always great.
It was, you know, it was, it wasa battle of who can last the
longest, you know?
Right, right.
Exactly.
Guys.
It was, it was just, it was.
So different.
And, and now I'm going out withmy seventh grade son's team to
(10:42):
Vail.
Oh man, that's awesome.
So they still have the VeilShootout.
That is awesome.
Awesome.
And it's, it's just for, youknow, kids more than it is for
the adults, but that they stillhave adult and they still do it.
So we, every year we take a teamout to Vail, so it's still
That's great, great Experie.
It's such a beautiful setting inthe, in the summer, you know,
I've been there in the winter,but God, it's beautiful in the
summer too.
I love it in the summer.
(11:04):
Yeah, I agree.
I agree.
Well, in all seriousness, Brian,it's just another aspect of the
way you've led young people inthe game and use the game of
lacrosse to teach a lot morethan than stick skills and extra
man.
How about if we, how about if wetransition to.
J m l and let's do that.
(11:24):
We'll get into a little bit ofthe mindset.
We'll do a mindset minute here.
Building your house on a strongfoundation is absolutely
essential.
Now, as we broadcast, we areunder a separation of church and
show clause.
That is our podcastconstitution.
So the foundation of ourtraining for young boys and
girls is their mindset.
Which is based on the sportsperformance work of Brian Kane
(11:46):
and his mentor, Dr.
Rob Gilbert, after having thebenefit of knowing how this
podcast interview ends, not asprophecy, but just by the fact
that we already recorded thewhole thing.
I'd like to expand a bit on agreat point Coach Kelly makes at
the very end of the interview.
Coach Kelly described as a gamesituation from back in 2012 in
(12:08):
which his Calvert Hall team waswinning 12 to seven in the
fourth quarter.
Soon their opponent scored twoquick goals and from there on
out he washes his teamcompletely seized up and was
unable to execute both on thedefensive side of the field and
on the offensive end and come tothink of it, he said they were
unable to function in the middleof the field as well.
(12:29):
Coach Kelly describes hisopponent simply as the team from
Conshohocken.
That's Conshohocken,Pennsylvania.
A good team, but not great CoachKelly's team.
That year was great.
He had five players on that teamthat were not only multi-year D
one, all Americans, but thesefive players would all go on to
have great careers in the PLLplayers we've all heard of, such
(12:53):
as Ryan Brown and Garrett Pel toname a few, and he said he was
really angry at his playersafter they completely imploded
and lost in overtime.
But instead of giving them agood scolding and then going on
with the rest of the season, hedecided to change tack.
At practice the next day, coachK asked them to write down what
it was they were thinking aboutas their team was spiraling down
(13:16):
into defeat.
And you know what some of themost common responses were, for
one.
Many said all they could thinkabout was the fear of losing.
Next up, was what their parentswere going to say to them once
they got home.
And the most common response.
Was what is inside lacrossegoing to say?
Because this team was nationallyranked and they knew this epic
(13:39):
upset would be headline news,they all were focused on the
outcome, in this case, a verynegative outcome, and there was
no focus on the process.
That is what it would take toregain control of the game.
Coach Kelly said this experiencehas revolutionized his coaching
technique as he immersed himselfinto the rich information
available to all coaches.
(13:59):
On the topic of sportsperformance, one of the elements
Coach Kelly teaches his playersis one of Brian Kane's primary
teachings, which is.
Focus on the process, not theoutcome.
Now, what does that mean?
That means focusing on the stepsand actions required to achieve
a goal rather than fixating onthe end result.
(14:19):
You might ask why?
Well, that's because when we arecompeting, if our mind is
focused on the end result, weget into a poor performance
state of mind.
A state of mind that says, thisis it.
It's do or die, it's now ornever.
These thoughts cause players totighten up and to try to do too
much all at once, which leads topoor performance.
(14:40):
Instead, if the focus is on thenext play in front of them, such
as get the next ground ball, getthe next clear run, the offense
that we're familiar with.
And that we know works.
A team is more likely tomethodically create an advantage
and then be in a better state ofmind to execute when a good
opportunity presents itself.
Players and coaches who havecommunicated about the
(15:03):
importance of their mindset inpractice, know what frame of
mind will get them out of a jam,and which mindset will only make
a problem such as tightening upwhen your opponent is going on a
run worse.
If we let go of the outcome andfocus on controlling what we can
control, which is the next playout in front of us, then our
chances of being successful aremuch higher than they would be
(15:26):
with any other state of mind.
To learn more about Brian Kaneand his 10 Pillars of Mental
Performance Mastery, also knownas MPM, check him
out@briankane.com or message meabout his teaching concepts as I
took his MPM course for coaches.
And love teaching his 10 pillarsof mental performance to
(15:46):
athletes.
Now we will return to ourinterview and you will find that
interview in progress.
So now we get to probably the.
Most difficult part of the showfor me.
Brian, I, I'm not sure if you'reaware, but the only reason Jay
had you on this show is so hegets to yet again talk about his
membership on the U 19.
(16:08):
Of course national team, this isthe Warped, which Jay finds away
mine virus that Ron has.
He's, we've had about 60episodes and we think there's
one where Jay hasn't somehowfound a way to weave in.
So it's become a joke 30 yearsago.
I mentioned it one time, and doglike blew his gasket.
I was like, you know, we had on,you know, like.
(16:29):
I can't, I can't remember who itwas, but Doug Care.
I'm like, dogs.
I can't believe you'rementioning that, Doug.
I'm gonna mention it.
So then after that I was like,every time I'm gonna mention it.
So what isn't the reason, Ryan,Jay, lemme ask my question for
God's sake.
Well, don't make our guest thinkthat that's why he's here.
You moron.
That's a good reason to be here.
(16:51):
It was a great, in allseriousness that you know, that
was quite, read the question asit's written.
Please.
I'm not reading your damnquestion.
Jay.
When you, when you think aboutthe guys that were on that team,
first of all.
Knowing them, some of many ofthem myself.
What a group of characters.
And then but then also characteron the lacrosse field.
Those were a group of playerswho came to define the next four
(17:13):
years of college across andbeyond.
Yeah.
And so tell, just tell us aboutwhat that, how did you get to be
on that?
Like what was your journey toget onto that team and then talk
about some of your highlights ofthat experience.
The Calvert Hall contingent Iwas, was strong.
It was great.
We all had a tryout at the HillSchool in Pennsylvania and.
You know the guys who werecoaching, it was coach Tiering
(17:35):
was one, coach Shriver and oh.
Shriver from Bo, you know, BKinitiated the contact.
Yeah.
And and guy Whitten, coach GuyWhitten.
Yeah.
And so you know, there, therewere so many great players.
Doc, doc Doty from Garden City.
Can't forget.
Doc Doherty was, yeah.
He coached the defense and talkabout a character was, he was
(17:57):
awesome.
I mean, we had a blast.
I mean, it was like we werefortunate enough to make it,
they could have picked a lot ofother kids and there was just so
many good players out there.
It was the first time they everdid it.
You know, and just being a partof it, you're still friends with
these guys for life.
I think about.
You know, I'm watching I have ason at Georgetown and I'm
watching Georgetown Villanovaand Keith Moe's sons playing for
(18:17):
Villanova, you know, and I'mlike, oh man, it's Mike.
And we all talking, and, youknow, I see Towers that was on
the team, and Mark NuGen andChris Colbeck and Michael
Heifer, and were all Caler Hallguys with me that were on it.
And there was like four GardenCity guys on it.
You know, so it was just it, it,it, it was just a great
experience for me personally.
And just, and it was greatlacrosse.
(18:37):
You know, we had so many, youknow, from Pat McCabe to Matt
Panetta, you know, obviously JayMickey Vodi.
We just, Jerry de Lorenzo thegreatest character of all times
in the goal of being, oh, Jerryd.
I mean, it was, we had a lot offun.
We probably had too much fun,you know?
And then we had to buckle down.
Like we, we played Team Canadaand we were like, it was, I
(18:58):
think we won by two or maybeone.
And then we were like, allright, we got it.
Let's go.
And then we, we, we rolled themthe next time we played'em.
So it was good, right?
But we, we had a blast.
It was great.
And then, you know, Brian, talkabout how that, it's gotta be
such obviously an awesomeexperience.
You're representing your countryand, and traveling to Australia,
(19:19):
but then as a player, right, theleg up that gives you heading to
Carolina.
I mean, you gotta go there.
Not as the typical you know,college freshman.
Or was that between yourfreshman and sophomore year?
It was, we, we had our freshmanyear after freshman year,
Carolina.
It was right after our freshmanyear.
Oh, got it, got it.
So, lemme reframe my question'cause that doesn't make any
(19:39):
sense.
Go ahead, restart Ron.
Alright, we'll that out.
I'll restart.
So, so I'll, I'll, I'll put itthis way.
Jack.
So, so Brian, then you, you're,you know, tell me about what
it's like playing on that juniornational team, which is
obviously a great experience.
You're representing yourcountry, but also as a player,
you're playing with the bestplayers in the country every
day.
(19:59):
You're covering some of the bestoffensive players every day in
the country in practice.
And what's it like going back toCarolina in your sophomore year?
What did that do for you as aplayer?
Going back to chapel Hill?
I mean, it, it, it was nothingbut positives that it helped me
a ton because you got to, youexperienced some of the best
players every day in practiceand, you know iron sharpens iron
(20:23):
and I think it gave medefinitely a leg up going in
when you're, you're competingagainst the, the, the, the top
players in your class.
And, and practice.
And then as we play together,you know, you pick up things,
you learn a lot, you know youknow, playing with the shady and
then Lebo and the guys likethat, two guys at UUVA that were
great players and just with PatMcCabe and, you know, you just
(20:47):
really, you, you, you tookthings from each player of what
they did and just like tried toemulate it to your game.
So it was nothing but a positiveexperience.
I definitely think it helped mebecome a better, a better
player.
And it was also learning fromDoc Daughty a different type of
style defense that I was usedto.
So I really took a, a lot andlearned a lot from him from a
(21:09):
defensive perspective.
So it was there, there, therewas not one negative experience
I could say about that trip.
Speaking of no guardrails thatso many of our listeners
describe the college lacrosserecruiting trail.
So we've responded by puttingexcerpts of our 10 best
interviews with legendarycoaches, such as bill Tierney,
Lars, Tiffany and Andy towers.
(21:31):
Into a book that you can accesson Kindle, it is available on
Amazon, under the title insidethe recruiting game insights
from college lacrosse coaches.
So with that, you will see thedescription of these items also
in the show notes.
So what was, flash forward toyour senior year, what were,
what were the difference makersfor that undefeated 91 national
(21:54):
championship team at Carolinathat you were a part of?
What really defined that group?
I, I would say was a hell of ateam.
Yeah.
It, it was a team like I wouldsay the, the 88 team that I was
on as a freshman.
That was the most talented teamI.
Played with it.
Carolina unfortunately ran intosch smaller Cornell, and he, he
(22:17):
just was unreal.
Kind of like your experienceagainst Marilyn run into a hot
goalie and, and that happens,you know, and Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
They, they, they, we went homeearly and, you know, that year I
felt like we had the talent towin it, but in 91.
Again, it was kind of likeMarilyn this year with like, not
a lot of stars going in.
No one really thought we weregreat.
But Dennis Goldstein, you knowTimmy's younger brother, who's a
(22:39):
senior with me that year he wasthe offensive player of the
year.
He was just, Dennis was one ofthose guys that was really good
at everything.
He wasn't like great atanything.
He just did.
He could score, he could feed.
He just was tough.
And he did that and then super,super solid, you know,
maintained possession, like, youknow, everything like a master.
Like if you watched him play,you'd be like, not popping off
(23:01):
the screen, but you would lookat the statue.
He's like, God, he was three andtwo.
He was four and three.
You know, he was that guy and hejust could end a game.
And then defensively we hadGraham Harden.
He was my roommate and he wasgreat.
God rest his soul.
He was unbelievable.
He covered the number one and hewas the defensive player of the
year, and he was outstanding.
And then, you know, midfield, itwas super, super intense too.
(23:24):
You know, he coached us, wasthat our freshman year at Brown?
It was his older brother.
His older brother.
Yeah.
That was boy.
Oh, that's right.
That was Boyo.
Right, right, right, right,right.
Yes.
Graham was out here.
Yeah, right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Graham had great hands.
He played hockey and you know,now you can't take the ball
away, but Graham could take theball away and I, I made a living
off of Graham'cause he would getthe ball on the ground and I was
(23:45):
good at it, right up ball up.
So, you know, I led the team inground balls and that was
completely because of ground.
Oh man.
He just would just get the ballon the ground and I would get
it.
Yeah.
And then but I think what set usapart was.
We rode really well.
We had a great riding team.
We would score three or fourgoals off of rides.
We played five attack men.
You know, we played threemidfield units.
(24:07):
Fortunately, I liked that weonly played three download
defenders, but, you know,because I didn't like to rotate
out, but Right.
You know, we also rotate, andthat could be demoralizing when
you're scoring goals off a ride,you know, it's one thing, you
know, you don't clear it.
It's another thing that they getan immediate goal.
You know what I mean?
I remember that from that team.
They were, it's like a, just amillion people playing, you
know, like you said, you'replaying three midfield, you're
(24:28):
playing five attack men.
Yes.
And it was just like a swarm.
I mean, it was like, forgetabout it.
Yeah.
And Coach k Carmen, he had onerule, like....
he had one rule, one rule forCoach k Carmen, a man with an
absolutely legendary persona asa major stickler to find out
what that one all-encompassingrule was.
Tune in next week.
(24:49):
Until we meet again.
Here's to hoping you find thetwine.
We're signing off here at theget the lax scoop.
Thanks again so much.
We will see you the next time.
It's time for Get the LackScoop, a podcast bringing you
all the people and stuff youshould know in the game of
lacrosse.
We take lack seriously, butourselves, not so much.
Join host Big Dog and Jaybirdand the biggest names in the
game brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training.
(00:23):
Ron Doglish, the big dog, was acollegiate football and lacrosse
player at Brown.
He was also an assistantlacrosse coach and the executive
director of the SportsFoundation.
And Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, athree time All American
midfielder at Brown.
He was the captain of the U.
S.
Junior National Team and is thefounder of JML.
(00:43):
And Joining us in the studio,Steve Grisolfi, who's collegiate
lacrosse career statisticsequals one goal against
Dartmouth brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training, helping the
next generation of lacrosseplayers get to the next level
Jay, we have, we have I, I'm,I'm not gonna give away the name
(01:03):
of our guests, but this is kindof lacrosse family royalty here.
Oh my God.
I mean, big time.
Jay, you're high.
Good way to wrap up the collegeseason.
I can't imagine anyone who'smore closely connected to
college lacrosse and lacrosse ingeneral than this guy.
I mean, if you had a lacrossefootprint, this guy would be
Bigfoot, lacrosse, familyfootprint, veritable Sasquatch.
(01:27):
But let me get into this intro.
Yeah.
Our next guest is the head coachof the varsity lacrosse team at
Calvert Hall College HighSchool, a posties held since
1996.
He's been named Coach of theYear six times in 1996, his
inaugural season in 2003 whenCalvert Hall won its first
Maryland InterscholasticAthletic Association's, a
(01:49):
conference, which is the MIAALacrosse Championship.
The best.
High school lacrosse in thecountry.
Jay?
Hey, it's up.
It's up there.
Unquestionably, it's one of thebest I'm sure our guests will
attest to in 2012, when he ledthe team to its second
championship, as well as afterwinning conference titles in
2017 a year.
(02:11):
He was also named the All USABoys Coach of the Year by USA
today in 2018 and in 2019.
And that was an unprecedentedthree straight championships.
And of course, this past seasonthat just ended, he led the
Cardinals to their sixth and Iaa title the most by any program
(02:33):
since the league's inception.
He's a graduate of theUniversity of North Carolina,
where he was a political sciencemajor and a close defenseman for
the to heels as a senior in1991.
He was an All American selectionand a co-captain he helped the
heels achieve an undefeated NCAAchampionship season.
Please welcome to the show, theone, the only.
(02:54):
Brian Kelly, thanks for havingme, Jay.
It's good to see you guys again.
Rob.
I'm looking forward to it.
Awesome.
Kelly.
Great to see you, So Jay, shallwe transition to a little bit
more about our guest and maybesome questions for him?
Let's do that Ron.
Let's do that.
So so Brian, transitioning toyou and, and your lacrosse
(03:14):
career.
You know, one of the thingsthat's been fun for Jay and I
is, you know, bringing people onwho we may know and know their
career and know all the thingsthey've done, but we don't
actually know how it started forthem, you know?
So it's been kind of cool to askpeople like, what are your first
memories of lacrosse?
And like, where did it start andwho were the people who really
(03:34):
influenced you when you firstpicked up a stick?
Well it the, we never knew whatlacrosse was growing up as a
family.
My brother John was the firstone.
I'm one of four boys.
I'm the youngest, so my oldestis Brother Frank and my second
brother's John.
And then I had a brother namedDavid and myself and my brother
John was probably like 13 or 12and he started to play lacrosse
(03:58):
and we were also playingbaseball and you know, we'd go
watch him play and I'm like, ah,this is pretty cool.
And then we all felt like thisis so baseball's way too boring
for us.
And so we all started playingand I was probably 10 when I
started playing lacrosse.
And you know, I played for aville rec council and I was very
fortunate.
I had an amazing coach and a guynamed Bob Prader and he coached
(04:20):
me from Midget a's all the wayup to Junior a's this is what it
was back in the day in the reccouncil side.
And he just, and I had anotherguy named Wes Bacher who played
at Hopkins.
And just.
They, they, I was playingmidfield and they were like,
Hey, look, you're a really goodmidi, but we need a defender.
Will you play defense for us?
And I was like, yeah, I'll dowhatever you want me to do.
(04:41):
And ended up playing defense andthey would never let me throw
checks.
They taught me how to playfundamental defense at a young
age.
And they gave me that foundationof how to play.
And so I, I, I look back tothose young days of like, they
were the key for of how, how Ibecame, you know, a defender.
(05:02):
They taught me how to play.
That's awesome.
That's really cool.
And you know, as we mentioned alittle bit in the opening there,
that your, if your family had alacrosse footprint, it would
probably be Sasquatch with your,so it's four older brothers.
Four, three older brothers.
I'm one of four, three olderbrothers.
Okay.
That's what I thought.
You're one of four.
Right?
And in fact, Frank was my coachat Cornell Lacrosse camp.
(05:24):
Yeah.
When I was like in eighth grade,probably 84, maybe, something
like that.
I think I was there 80, 45,something like that.
I was at that camp too.
Oh really?
That is so funny.
And I got a que I got alistener's question from Coach
Andy Towers for you from thatcamp.
Yeah, yeah.
But that's at the end.
But anyway, so there, you know,what was it like as you were
(05:45):
getting older, you know, with,with all three brothers playing
and you're getting into middleschool, getting into high
school, what kind of influencedid they have on your high
school play and on your, youknow, your desire to pursue it
into playing in college?
I mean, they, they had a huge,you know, influence on me.
You know, they would make meplay goalie in the backyard and
(06:05):
shoot on me.
And then that's how I probablybecame a defender and made me a
defender.
Yeah, I think they, you knowthey we would just do
one-on-ones and then justwatching, you know, I would
watch'em play, go to every game,and I always say Moore's caught
than taught.
And I just would just watchlacrosse and I think it really
helped me being the youngestjust to see.
Yeah.
At that time you didn't go up tothe Cornell Games where my
(06:27):
brother went, you know, but myother brother went to Washington
College.
I'd watch some of his games, andthen my brother David and I
played together at Calvert Hall.
And you know, he was an attackman.
I was a defender, so he, hedefinitely had an influence.
Some one-on-ones in thebackyard.
We did two one ones, theBackyard Practice.
It's a funny story.
I, so he went to Carolina and Igot recruited and it was down to
(06:49):
Maryland and Carolina for me.
And I loved Dick Ade.
Like I love, he's great guy.
Dick Ade.
Yeah.
And at the end of the day, Ididn't wanna play against my
brother, so I was like, I'm, I'mgonna go to Carolina.
So that's the only reason Ireally chose Carolina, is I
didn't wanna play against mybrother.
Well, then I had to play againsthim every day in practice, you
(07:11):
know, and it's like you know,for fighting for Star, the
playing time.
And I, I didn't think aboutthat, so it was like, but it was
a great experience for me.
So they, he helped me a ton andthey helped me just as you know,
you guys, when you go throughit, it's more the mental of
like, you know, highs and lowsof, you know, high college
across, you know, you just haveto have people you can talk to
and they, they help meimmensely.
(07:32):
Right.
That's great.
Good stuff.
And then doing a little researchcame across the fact that your
older brother, I think it wasFrank, he founded FCA, the cross
the travel, I.
Lacrosse part?
Well, he, he, he founded likethe, the, the, the overall
national program.
So in 1992 Okay.
Was the first time we all wentout to Veil and we had that
(07:52):
miracle on the mountain with theFCA team and we beat the green
turtle.
Yeah.
And we were a bunch of rag tags.
It was myself and like GeorgeGly.
We were the only two, like the,and Steve pta, that's it.
We only had three defenders andthen we had some high school
kid, and then we had my brother,Frank and some other guys.
But I think we were the onlyteam that wasn't out there
overly partying.
And we played the gates and andpet all those guys on the green
(08:14):
turtle.
We were out there too.
Yeah.
And we lost in the championshipto Mount Washington.
And, but that was the firstexperience of FCA.
Really?
That's so fun.
And it just.
Came and started growing.
And then we did these littleprograms.
And then, believe it or not, mywife and I started the cl, the
local club in Maryland, FCA.
Okay.
Because we would take all of ourkids to veil on these national
(08:36):
teams and they would get thisexperience, but then they would
come back home and they wouldkind of like the mountaintop
experience of impact, just kindof with withered away.
And so we came up with this ideaof starting the club and just to
try to really have an impact onkids and being in high school,
you just saw like.
These kids need it more thanjust lacrosse.
(08:57):
'cause sometimes lacrosse isyour whole identity and you're,
it's like your God, it's justnot a good God, you know?
And then, right.
These guys through FCA, it, it,it gives you the foundations of,
of Judeo-Christian values andhow to play one way to play drug
and alcohol free.
You know, the importance of, youknow, building your house on a
firm foundation and, and soforth.
(09:18):
And so we helped start it from2012 to 14 and then I got out of
running it and then I just beencoaching my son's teams, so I
gotcha.
That's cool.
Good deal.
Good background.
Just sounds like Brian's Vailexperience was slightly
different than ours.
Yes.
(09:38):
It was good for him.
Oh my god.
We could have used a little,little detox.
Yeah.
We could have used the littlestewardship.
A little come to Jesus would'vebeen nice too.
Oh my.
You'll get it.
I got it later in life.
I always, I always say though,that tournament was.
The most fun, no doubt.
And some of the best lacrosse Iever got to play, it was no
(09:59):
doubt.
I mean, those teams were juststacked right at McCabe Kisser.
It was unreal.
It was you know, it was, youknow, you had MAB paints, you
had like, you know, you had teamColorado was great to, to Green
Turtle, to, you know, MountWashington.
It was, it was just so much fun.
Thanks for, thanks formentioning the New York Athletic
Club team and the New YorkAthletic Club.
(10:21):
Yeah, yeah.
Uhhuh Uhhuh.
They usually lost in the firstround though.
No, I'm just kidding.
They, they were, I think we madethe semis now.
You guys were always great.
It was, you know, it was, it wasa battle of who can last the
longest, you know?
Right, right.
Exactly.
Guys.
It was, it was just, it was.
So different.
And, and now I'm going out withmy seventh grade son's team to
(10:42):
Vail.
Oh man, that's awesome.
So they still have the VeilShootout.
That is awesome.
Awesome.
And it's, it's just for, youknow, kids more than it is for
the adults, but that they stillhave adult and they still do it.
So we, every year we take a teamout to Vail, so it's still
That's great, great Experie.
It's such a beautiful setting inthe, in the summer, you know,
I've been there in the winter,but God, it's beautiful in the
summer too.
I love it in the summer.
(11:04):
Yeah, I agree.
I agree.
Well, in all seriousness, Brian,it's just another aspect of the
way you've led young people inthe game and use the game of
lacrosse to teach a lot morethan than stick skills and extra
man.
How about if we, how about if wetransition to.
J m l and let's do that.
(11:24):
We'll get into a little bit ofthe mindset.
We'll do a mindset minute here.
Building your house on a strongfoundation is absolutely
essential.
Now, as we broadcast, we areunder a separation of church and
show clause.
That is our podcastconstitution.
So the foundation of ourtraining for young boys and
girls is their mindset.
Which is based on the sportsperformance work of Brian Kane
(11:46):
and his mentor, Dr.
Rob Gilbert, after having thebenefit of knowing how this
podcast interview ends, not asprophecy, but just by the fact
that we already recorded thewhole thing.
I'd like to expand a bit on agreat point Coach Kelly makes at
the very end of the interview.
Coach Kelly described as a gamesituation from back in 2012 in
(12:08):
which his Calvert Hall team waswinning 12 to seven in the
fourth quarter.
Soon their opponent scored twoquick goals and from there on
out he washes his teamcompletely seized up and was
unable to execute both on thedefensive side of the field and
on the offensive end and come tothink of it, he said they were
unable to function in the middleof the field as well.
(12:29):
Coach Kelly describes hisopponent simply as the team from
Conshohocken.
That's Conshohocken,Pennsylvania.
A good team, but not great CoachKelly's team.
That year was great.
He had five players on that teamthat were not only multi-year D
one, all Americans, but thesefive players would all go on to
have great careers in the PLLplayers we've all heard of, such
(12:53):
as Ryan Brown and Garrett Pel toname a few, and he said he was
really angry at his playersafter they completely imploded
and lost in overtime.
But instead of giving them agood scolding and then going on
with the rest of the season, hedecided to change tack.
At practice the next day, coachK asked them to write down what
it was they were thinking aboutas their team was spiraling down
(13:16):
into defeat.
And you know what some of themost common responses were, for
one.
Many said all they could thinkabout was the fear of losing.
Next up, was what their parentswere going to say to them once
they got home.
And the most common response.
Was what is inside lacrossegoing to say?
Because this team was nationallyranked and they knew this epic
(13:39):
upset would be headline news,they all were focused on the
outcome, in this case, a verynegative outcome, and there was
no focus on the process.
That is what it would take toregain control of the game.
Coach Kelly said this experiencehas revolutionized his coaching
technique as he immersed himselfinto the rich information
available to all coaches.
(13:59):
On the topic of sportsperformance, one of the elements
Coach Kelly teaches his playersis one of Brian Kane's primary
teachings, which is.
Focus on the process, not theoutcome.
Now, what does that mean?
That means focusing on the stepsand actions required to achieve
a goal rather than fixating onthe end result.
(14:19):
You might ask why?
Well, that's because when we arecompeting, if our mind is
focused on the end result, weget into a poor performance
state of mind.
A state of mind that says, thisis it.
It's do or die, it's now ornever.
These thoughts cause players totighten up and to try to do too
much all at once, which leads topoor performance.
(14:40):
Instead, if the focus is on thenext play in front of them, such
as get the next ground ball, getthe next clear run, the offense
that we're familiar with.
And that we know works.
A team is more likely tomethodically create an advantage
and then be in a better state ofmind to execute when a good
opportunity presents itself.
Players and coaches who havecommunicated about the
(15:03):
importance of their mindset inpractice, know what frame of
mind will get them out of a jam,and which mindset will only make
a problem such as tightening upwhen your opponent is going on a
run worse.
If we let go of the outcome andfocus on controlling what we can
control, which is the next playout in front of us, then our
chances of being successful aremuch higher than they would be
(15:26):
with any other state of mind.
To learn more about Brian Kaneand his 10 Pillars of Mental
Performance Mastery, also knownas MPM, check him
out@briankane.com or message meabout his teaching concepts as I
took his MPM course for coaches.
And love teaching his 10 pillarsof mental performance to
(15:46):
athletes.
Now we will return to ourinterview and you will find that
interview in progress.
So now we get to probably the.
Most difficult part of the showfor me.
Brian, I, I'm not sure if you'reaware, but the only reason Jay
had you on this show is so hegets to yet again talk about his
membership on the U 19.
(16:08):
Of course national team, this isthe Warped, which Jay finds away
mine virus that Ron has.
He's, we've had about 60episodes and we think there's
one where Jay hasn't somehowfound a way to weave in.
So it's become a joke 30 yearsago.
I mentioned it one time, and doglike blew his gasket.
I was like, you know, we had on,you know, like.
(16:29):
I can't, I can't remember who itwas, but Doug Care.
I'm like, dogs.
I can't believe you'rementioning that, Doug.
I'm gonna mention it.
So then after that I was like,every time I'm gonna mention it.
So what isn't the reason, Ryan,Jay, lemme ask my question for
God's sake.
Well, don't make our guest thinkthat that's why he's here.
You moron.
That's a good reason to be here.
(16:51):
It was a great, in allseriousness that you know, that
was quite, read the question asit's written.
Please.
I'm not reading your damnquestion.
Jay.
When you, when you think aboutthe guys that were on that team,
first of all.
Knowing them, some of many ofthem myself.
What a group of characters.
And then but then also characteron the lacrosse field.
Those were a group of playerswho came to define the next four
(17:13):
years of college across andbeyond.
Yeah.
And so tell, just tell us aboutwhat that, how did you get to be
on that?
Like what was your journey toget onto that team and then talk
about some of your highlights ofthat experience.
The Calvert Hall contingent Iwas, was strong.
It was great.
We all had a tryout at the HillSchool in Pennsylvania and.
You know the guys who werecoaching, it was coach Tiering
(17:35):
was one, coach Shriver and oh.
Shriver from Bo, you know, BKinitiated the contact.
Yeah.
And and guy Whitten, coach GuyWhitten.
Yeah.
And so you know, there, therewere so many great players.
Doc, doc Doty from Garden City.
Can't forget.
Doc Doherty was, yeah.
He coached the defense and talkabout a character was, he was
(17:57):
awesome.
I mean, we had a blast.
I mean, it was like we werefortunate enough to make it,
they could have picked a lot ofother kids and there was just so
many good players out there.
It was the first time they everdid it.
You know, and just being a partof it, you're still friends with
these guys for life.
I think about.
You know, I'm watching I have ason at Georgetown and I'm
watching Georgetown Villanovaand Keith Moe's sons playing for
(18:17):
Villanova, you know, and I'mlike, oh man, it's Mike.
And we all talking, and, youknow, I see Towers that was on
the team, and Mark NuGen andChris Colbeck and Michael
Heifer, and were all Caler Hallguys with me that were on it.
And there was like four GardenCity guys on it.
You know, so it was just it, it,it, it was just a great
experience for me personally.
And just, and it was greatlacrosse.
(18:37):
You know, we had so many, youknow, from Pat McCabe to Matt
Panetta, you know, obviously JayMickey Vodi.
We just, Jerry de Lorenzo thegreatest character of all times
in the goal of being, oh, Jerryd.
I mean, it was, we had a lot offun.
We probably had too much fun,you know?
And then we had to buckle down.
Like we, we played Team Canadaand we were like, it was, I
(18:58):
think we won by two or maybeone.
And then we were like, allright, we got it.
Let's go.
And then we, we, we rolled themthe next time we played'em.
So it was good, right?
But we, we had a blast.
It was great.
And then, you know, Brian, talkabout how that, it's gotta be
such obviously an awesomeexperience.
You're representing your countryand, and traveling to Australia,
(19:19):
but then as a player, right, theleg up that gives you heading to
Carolina.
I mean, you gotta go there.
Not as the typical you know,college freshman.
Or was that between yourfreshman and sophomore year?
It was, we, we had our freshmanyear after freshman year,
Carolina.
It was right after our freshmanyear.
Oh, got it, got it.
So, lemme reframe my question'cause that doesn't make any
(19:39):
sense.
Go ahead, restart Ron.
Alright, we'll that out.
I'll restart.
So, so I'll, I'll, I'll put itthis way.
Jack.
So, so Brian, then you, you're,you know, tell me about what
it's like playing on that juniornational team, which is
obviously a great experience.
You're representing yourcountry, but also as a player,
you're playing with the bestplayers in the country every
day.
(19:59):
You're covering some of the bestoffensive players every day in
the country in practice.
And what's it like going back toCarolina in your sophomore year?
What did that do for you as aplayer?
Going back to chapel Hill?
I mean, it, it, it was nothingbut positives that it helped me
a ton because you got to, youexperienced some of the best
players every day in practiceand, you know iron sharpens iron
(20:23):
and I think it gave medefinitely a leg up going in
when you're, you're competingagainst the, the, the, the top
players in your class.
And, and practice.
And then as we play together,you know, you pick up things,
you learn a lot, you know youknow, playing with the shady and
then Lebo and the guys likethat, two guys at UUVA that were
great players and just with PatMcCabe and, you know, you just
(20:47):
really, you, you, you tookthings from each player of what
they did and just like tried toemulate it to your game.
So it was nothing but a positiveexperience.
I definitely think it helped mebecome a better, a better
player.
And it was also learning fromDoc Daughty a different type of
style defense that I was usedto.
So I really took a, a lot andlearned a lot from him from a
(21:09):
defensive perspective.
So it was there, there, therewas not one negative experience
I could say about that trip.
Speaking of no guardrails thatso many of our listeners
describe the college lacrosserecruiting trail.
So we've responded by puttingexcerpts of our 10 best
interviews with legendarycoaches, such as bill Tierney,
Lars, Tiffany and Andy towers.
(21:31):
Into a book that you can accesson Kindle, it is available on
Amazon, under the title insidethe recruiting game insights
from college lacrosse coaches.
So with that, you will see thedescription of these items also
in the show notes.
So what was, flash forward toyour senior year, what were,
what were the difference makersfor that undefeated 91 national
(21:54):
championship team at Carolinathat you were a part of?
What really defined that group?
I, I would say was a hell of ateam.
Yeah.
It, it was a team like I wouldsay the, the 88 team that I was
on as a freshman.
That was the most talented teamI.
Played with it.
Carolina unfortunately ran intosch smaller Cornell, and he, he
(22:17):
just was unreal.
Kind of like your experienceagainst Marilyn run into a hot
goalie and, and that happens,you know, and Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
They, they, they, we went homeearly and, you know, that year I
felt like we had the talent towin it, but in 91.
Again, it was kind of likeMarilyn this year with like, not
a lot of stars going in.
No one really thought we weregreat.
But Dennis Goldstein, you knowTimmy's younger brother, who's a
(22:39):
senior with me that year he wasthe offensive player of the
year.
He was just, Dennis was one ofthose guys that was really good
at everything.
He wasn't like great atanything.
He just did.
He could score, he could feed.
He just was tough.
And he did that and then super,super solid, you know,
maintained possession, like, youknow, everything like a master.
Like if you watched him play,you'd be like, not popping off
(23:01):
the screen, but you would lookat the statue.
He's like, God, he was three andtwo.
He was four and three.
You know, he was that guy and hejust could end a game.
And then defensively we hadGraham Harden.
He was my roommate and he wasgreat.
God rest his soul.
He was unbelievable.
He covered the number one and hewas the defensive player of the
year, and he was outstanding.
And then, you know, midfield, itwas super, super intense too.
(23:24):
You know, he coached us, wasthat our freshman year at Brown?
It was his older brother.
His older brother.
Yeah.
That was boy.
Oh, that's right.
That was Boyo.
Right, right, right, right,right.
Yes.
Graham was out here.
Yeah, right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Graham had great hands.
He played hockey and you know,now you can't take the ball
away, but Graham could take theball away and I, I made a living
off of Graham'cause he would getthe ball on the ground and I was
(23:45):
good at it, right up ball up.
So, you know, I led the team inground balls and that was
completely because of ground.
Oh man.
He just would just get the ballon the ground and I would get
it.
Yeah.
And then but I think what set usapart was.
We rode really well.
We had a great riding team.
We would score three or fourgoals off of rides.
We played five attack men.
You know, we played threemidfield units.
(24:07):
Fortunately, I liked that weonly played three download
defenders, but, you know,because I didn't like to rotate
out, but Right.
You know, we also rotate, andthat could be demoralizing when
you're scoring goals off a ride,you know, it's one thing, you
know, you don't clear it.
It's another thing that they getan immediate goal.
You know what I mean?
I remember that from that team.
They were, it's like a, just amillion people playing, you
know, like you said, you'replaying three midfield, you're
(24:28):
playing five attack men.
Yes.
And it was just like a swarm.
I mean, it was like, forgetabout it.
Yeah.
And Coach k Carmen, he had onerule, like....
he had one rule, one rule forCoach k Carmen, a man with an
absolutely legendary persona asa major stickler to find out
what that one all-encompassingrule was.
Tune in next week.
(24:49):
Until we meet again.
Here's to hoping you find thetwine.
We're signing off here at theget the lax scoop.
Thanks again so much.
We will see you the next time.
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