February 26, 2025 • 28 mins
The 'Get the Lax Scoop' podcast, hosted by Ron, The Big Dawg, Dalgliesh and Jaybird (Jay McMahon), welcomes listeners to a three-part interview series featuring Brown Athletic Hall of Famers Jamie and Neil Monroe. The podcast delves into their experiences as former collegiate lacrosse players and leading figures in the sport. Key points include Neil's journey from a freshman benchwarmer to a standout player and Jamie's transition from Yale assistant coach to head coach at Denver, focusing on his innovative approach to recruiting and building successful lacrosse programs. Further, the podcast highlights Jamie's move from college coaching to founding 3D and later JM3, emphasizing contemporary skill acquisition theories and the importance of ecological dynamics in player development. The episode concludes with inspirational anecdotes about the Monroes' relentless athletic drive and insights into the superhuman reserve, encouraging listeners to push their limits.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
It's time for Get the LackScoop, a podcast bringing you
all the people and stuff youshould know in the game of
lacrosse.
We take lack seriously, butourselves, not so much.
Join host Big Dog and Jaybirdand the biggest names in the
game brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training.
(00:23):
Ron Doglish, the big dog, was acollegiate football and lacrosse
player at Brown.
He was also an assistantlacrosse coach and the executive
director of the SportsFoundation.
And Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, athree time All American
midfielder at Brown.
He was the captain of the U.
S.
Junior National Team and is thefounder of JML.
(00:43):
And Joining us in the studio,Steve Grisolfi, who's collegiate
lacrosse career statisticsequals one goal against
Dartmouth brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training, helping the
next generation of lacrosseplayers get to the next level.
Hello, everyone, and welcome tothe Get the Lack Scoop podcast.
(01:03):
Today, we are sharing the secondportion of our three part
interview series with BrownAthletic Hall of Famers and
brothers, Jamie and Neil Monroe.
If you have not listened to partone, We highly recommend you go
back and do so.
As it ties in beautifully towhat we discussed going forward,
you will find this interview inprogress.
(01:26):
All right, Neil, enough, Jamie,Neil, enough, Jamie, let's get,
let's, let's get to you.
All right.
As I mentioned, I, you know, oneof the fun things about this
podcast is like, you know, youknow, guys forever, you play
with them, but it's not likeyou're really asked these kinds
of questions.
So, you know, thinking back oflike you being that we talked
about you being, you know, ateam defensive and offensive
(01:48):
MVP, how, how did you becomethat player?
You know, not every attack mangrows up wanting to ride their
ass off and pick up crazy, everyloose ball in the offensive end.
But you know, those of us whoknow the game know if you give,
especially the of offenses, youplayed with a few extra
possessions, a game, you'regonna win a lot of games that
(02:12):
come from those plays.
So anyway, I'm just wondering,like, how did you become that
kind of player that reallydistinguished your style, the
way you played?
Yeah, I think it happenedfreshman year in my first game,
a couple of us at the end of thebench were joking that I could
have probably still had my jeanson under my sweats because Dom
didn't even look my way.
(02:34):
And when you looked at theattackman that we had, you know,
towers in the middies with lowand obviously the other way
around and UJ, I realized that Ihad to find a way to make a
mark.
And.
I don't know if you guysremember, but I started getting
some opportunities on the wingsof the face off and I picked up
a couple of GBs there and Istarted getting a little bit
(02:55):
more time.
And as I started getting a fewmore and scrapping and hustling,
I started getting a couple ofmidday shifts.
And so when I became a sophomoreand it was me, Andy and Darren,
two future Ivy league players ofthe year and first team, all
Americans and nothing againstthose guys, but if it's not, you
know, in their advantage on thatGB, they're not really going for
it.
You know, 60, 40 for the otherguy.
(03:16):
Yeah.
We'll chase that one down later.
Right.
So I had to figure out my niche.
Right.
And then when Andy moved tomidfield.
And I get Oliver, I'm notpicking on Oliver either, but I
got a better shot of gettingthat ball than him.
So it was a little bit knowingmy personnel and then Jay, I'm
going to pick on you because youguys got pretty used to having
me get in the hole.
I remember many times seeing yougo, Neil.
(03:37):
You got this.
Get back there.
And so it's just, it was thisself perpetuating thing, but I
just started to love it.
You know, you look at theseVirginia teams that Lars has.
They ride the shit out of theball.
And I was kind of like thatearly guy who was just like, I
am going to go a hundred and 10from when the ball's down until
(04:00):
either I have to get back in thehole for Jay or Andy, or until
they have it on the other side.
So the only thing I think aboutis why Dom at that point, wasn't
like this shy should be a D midior an LSM.
I don't know why he kept me onattack.
That's probably the questionreally.
That we got to kind of figure itout.
It was working.
You had plenty of goals, plentyof assists.
(04:22):
No doubt.
But it was, I loved it, man.
We had the best time playingdown there and, and scrapping
that hard to get an extra.
I mean, you put the ball inDarren stick one more time.
You probably get another shotyourself.
You know, it's, it's all worthit.
There's definitely some rewardsfor the effort.
I was going to say, Neil, I meanyou know, What you're talking
about to me and knowing thatteam is the importance of
(04:45):
understanding how you can fill arole and make a huge
contribution.
Cause if I was answering thatlast question, I'd probably say,
because you became a hell of afinisher, you know, as, as
you're mentioning, there's a lotof guys on that offense who are
going to draw attention, but youfricking play.
And I remember a lot of times,you know, you're on the end of
(05:05):
some of those multiple slidesequences.
And you got to finish, you know,and so you, you became an engine
of both starting the offense, Ithink with your riding and your
ground balls.
And then obviously you were onthe, you were on the receiving
end of a lot of those, you know,assists.
So, yeah, no, you know, and Iactually attribute a lot to
(05:26):
hoops.
He would always be like one.
Get over here.
He's like, you got to startcontributing a little bit more,
right?
20 points for an attackman isnot enough.
Here's what I want you to do,right?
You would be like just gettingin my ear, but in such a, you
know, authentic hoops way whereit was more of just like, you're
going to be better and I'm justhelping you get there.
He wasn't putting you down oranything.
It was really incredible.
(05:47):
Right.
That's great.
Now, Jamie, as we were reviewingin the opening, you were an
assistant there at Yale and yoursuccess in that position for
nine years then led to youbecoming the first head coach
out there at Denver in thesummer of 98.
So tell us what that experiencewas like, you know, taking this
club program then, you know,eventually to a playoff team,
multiple times hitting the NCAAtournament.
(06:10):
So tell us what that was like.
It was really exciting.
I really wanted to be a divisionone coach and it was at the time
there was not as many programsand it was very it was very hard
to become a division.
And I really only got the jobbecause everybody else turned it
down.
So I was pretty happy aboutthat.
And you know, it was actuallydivision two.
But it was like a club.
(06:31):
I mean, there was, there wasvery few resources.
Our, our office was like, therewas Tier A sports and Tier B
sports.
And we were a Tier B sport.
And the Tier B sports were like,in this like old dining hall.
It was like a ghost dining hall.
And I shared with my, with myassistant at the time, but I
didn't care at all.
All I really wanted to do wasjust build a program and it was
(06:54):
an amazing opportunity.
And I, Just recruited as if Iwas, you know, going to be
winning national championshipsand just and it was just an
amazing learning experience.
I mean, it's kind of crazy.
It's like being, it's like beinga first time parent, though, you
know, you're just like crazyabout about everything and in a
good way and in a great learningway.
(07:16):
So.
It really, I've always been kindof a student of the game.
I learned a lot when I was atYale.
Mike Waldvogel was an incrediblementor for me and I learned a
ton.
And so I was able to sort ofcontinue the learning process.
But now as a head coach, you'relike, you got to deal with
literally everything fromrecruiting.
I mean, our budget was so small.
It was how small we talk.
I had to fundraise.
(07:37):
I mean, I probably fundraised 10million in 11 years.
Including like scholarships,including like literally
everything because we justweren't getting handed it, but
we, but the more we started tohave some success and the more
we were able to get people tochip in financially, you know,
it just helped us build thewhole program.
And so I really got intorecruiting Canadians, which was
(07:58):
an interesting thing.
So, cause I just startedrealizing that, you know, I
wasn't going to be able tocompete with the, with the
Virginians of the world.
Those levels of recruits, but Icould get these junior a players
and it really turned me on.
I'd played a little bit of boxacross.
You'd mentioned that, but it washard to do with coaching, but I
didn't know the value of it as aplayer.
And then when I startedrecruiting it, I just was kind
(08:19):
of blown away.
So now were those guys like incollege, the junior guys?
So they're like with the juniora players already in college
because I know they come in alittle older right when they
come to it back then becauserecruiting in general was older.
These Canadians were older.
The best kids in junior a were21.
So, I mean, I had like JeffSnyder was like a 22 year old
freshman.
Wow.
And I had a, I had a lot ofthose guys, so, so they hadn't
(08:41):
gone to college before,although, say what?
So they hadn't gone to collegebefore?
They were playing Junior a,yeah.
Yeah.
A lot of'em were hockey guys orthey were just like, you know,
they working at, you know, TommyTomato, Tommy Tomato, or
whatever.
I mean, just like waitingtables.
I mean, they were just gonna befiremen or whatever.
Oh, I gotcha.
Jeff Snyder, but you know,that's where I recruited Brownie
(09:03):
and I kind of got, you know,Matt Brown was actually, I got
an email from Matt Brown.
That was on one of yourquestions, Matt Brown is the
current head coach at Denvernow.
And I got an email from this guyand it was in the early days of
email, to be honest with you, itwas like maybe one of the first
emails I ever opened.
I mean, it was like a thousandor something like that.
And he was like, yeah, I'm fromBurnaby, British Columbia.
I'm a 17 year old.
(09:24):
I led the, I led the BCLA in hattricks this year and, you know,
and I started looking it up andI was like, wow, this kid looks
like he could be pretty good.
And I went up, did a home visit,actually got a ski day in at
Whistler as well.
Yeah, that was pretty littlebenefit.
But and and then I got apipeline into into Burnaby,
(09:44):
British Columbia.
And that was like, at the timethey were the best program in
British Columbia.
They won a lot of mental cups.
It was just the junior nationalchampionship.
And we had a bunch of kids tocome through from, from Burnaby.
And so, yeah, it was, it wasobviously an amazing experience
and we.
We built a good program.
That's cool.
And then was Hilgey your firstassistant?
Yeah.
Peter, the guy, the guy who wasat McDonough is at McDonough.
(10:10):
Peter Hilgar was his youngestbrother played at Maryland.
It was my assistant for thefirst three years.
I got you.
Oh yeah.
You know, you, you mentionedMatt Brown, Jamie, and I think
one of the, the other, likethings that, that to me.
You can tell a great coach whenhe's hired great assistants.
It's like the coaching treething.
So obviously right now you gotMatt Brown.
(10:32):
He just mentioned recruiting,you know, as the head coach out
at Denver now.
And I think Matt went on to beon your staff as well.
And then you got John Torpy whowere obviously all very
interested in the new, new coachat Brown, who I think was also
on your staff.
So.
Talk about those two guys andhow, you know, how rewarding
(10:53):
it's been to see them becomehead coaches and maybe
particularly coach Torpy, youknow, and and what you think of
him taking over your alma mater.
I love it.
Torp and I worked together forfive years.
So he was 2005 through, whichwas Brownie's senior year,
through 2009.
John Torpey is an incredibleguy.
But you'll, you'll never meet amore personable person in your
(11:15):
life.
He's like, he, he can relate toanybody.
He's absolutely hysterical, buthe's also maybe the most driven,
hardworking, and not justhardworking.
There's a lot of people thatwork hard.
This dude, this guy is soproductive.
It's insane how much this guygets done.
I'm telling you like he'll getmore done before 10 a.
m.
on a Monday morning than mostpeople get done in a week and
(11:36):
I'm not even exactly he isincredible, like I said with his
relationships with people.
He's got a really good He's gotan edge to him, but he's got a
he's he can do it in a way Thatyou still love him So like he
can be hard on you without like,you know Basically being an
asshole and it's like it'sreally it's it's a real talent
(11:57):
honestly.
And and he just He goes throughhis life with this sort of
groundedness of family and faithand his love for the game and
his love to learn and to notleave and, you know, and to be
as resourceful as, as humanlypossible to try to win.
(12:18):
But also he really cares aboutpeople.
So I think what you'll find isthat what he's going to do for
Brown is create an amazingculture.
He will bring the program back.
To where we want it to be asproblems here on this call.
And yeah, it was just an amazingexperience.
It was great to work with him.
Hey, Jamie, I'm going to chimein.
Cause he's also a completeanimal for Jamie's 40th while he
was at Denver.
(12:38):
He wanted to run a 50 K.
So the two of us signed up andtorps is like, I'm in the
corpse.
He couldn't train.
He had to train on an ellipticalfor a 31 mile race.
So we all code my starting line.
Not only does he beat us by anhour, but he goes an extra 5K.
'cause he took the wrong turn.
(12:59):
serious, not elliptical.
He, he took the wrong turnbecause he actually, we, I was
like, oh shoot, I got, I gottarock on my shoe right at the
beginning of the race.
I'm like, I, I really need totake it out for a second.
He is like, dude, I can't stop.
I'm gonna like, my, my, mycalf's gonna, you know, get, get
stiff or something.
And then he decides to try towin the race.
(13:19):
He actually went up with theleaders and was like flying
through like, he went throughthe first aid station and just
shoved like potato chips in hisface and just kept running
through the entire thing becausewe lost them in every aid
station we went to his name waslike not on it was on the first
one and then after that we neversaw him again and we were like,
(13:39):
because he tried to win the raceand he was like right behind the
leaders and then the leaders allof a sudden stopped in the
middle of the woods and werelike, yeah, I think we went the
wrong way.
Basically.
He's like, wait, what?
They went three miles out of theway, three miles back.
And then he somehow caught up tous.
Oh my God.
I was going to say, he told astory.
(14:03):
He played basketball with Jamiesomewhere.
Like he's like, you know,Jamie's like, Hey, you want to
play some pickup basketball?
It's like, next thing you know,it's 99 to 99.
We're playing by one.
We're both like, we're notgiving up.
And.
Did that really happen, Jamie?
We used to regularly play fullcourt one on one, twos and
threes to a hundred, win byfour.
(14:25):
Win by four.
By four.
It goes too fast.
Yes, yeah, of course, Jamie, ofcourse.
The game to 500.
We transitioned to, uh, JML.
And let's do that.
We'll get into a little bit ofthe mindset.
We'll do a mindset minute Ladiesand gentlemen, what was just
described is a window into whatis known as the superhuman
(14:48):
reserve.
There is a hidden power insideeach and every one of us, what
some call the superhumanreserve.
It's that untapped well ofstrength, intelligence, and
resilience that reveals itselfwhen we need it most.
You've heard the stories.
Such as a mother lifting a caroff her trapped child, an
athlete pushing beyondexhaustion to claim an
(15:11):
improbable victory, an ordinaryperson defying impossible odds.
These are not accidents.
These are proof of what we allcarry within us.
Russian scientists studied thisphenomenon as they sought ways
to push their Olympic athletesbeyond known human limits.
They discovered that most peopleoperate at only a fraction of
(15:33):
their true potential, but underthe right conditions, when
stakes are high enough, when themind believes beyond a doubt.
Something miraculous happens.
The body obeys.
The impossible becomes possible.
We are stronger than we seem.
Smarter than we know.
Capable of far more than we'vebeen led to believe.
(15:53):
But here's the key.
It's not just about force ofwill.
It's about allowing themiraculous to unfold.
It's about trusting that withinus lies something extraordinary.
Something that will rise whencalled upon.
So I ask you, on the lacrossefield, And, in life in general,
what are you holding back?
What would happen if you stoppeddoubting your own limitless
(16:16):
nature?
The superhuman reserve is notreserved for the chosen few,
like coach John Torpy, whodecided to Win an ultramarathon
without even training.
It's in all of us waiting forthe moment when we stop
resisting and start receivingIt's time to step into the
impossible because the truth isyou are far more powerful than
(16:39):
you've ever imagined Now we willreturn to our interview and you
will find that interview pickingup right where we left off Now,
Neil, that, that 30 mile race isa good segue to you.
I mean, you've stayed involvedin athletics your whole life,
but in a very different way, youknow, and professionally, I know
you've worked for companies likeNike and North Face and you
(17:04):
know, as we mentioned, you'reout in Idaho now and I know have
been an avid skier and outdoorsperson.
Talk about how, you know, yourprofessional career has kept you
in an athletic realm and some ofthe people that you've been
inspired by in that work.
Yeah, I worked for the NorthFace for, you know, over 15
(17:24):
years.
And so it was always deeplyconnected in with the outdoor
skiing, climbing, running,mountaineering.
And I was really lucky.
I got to go on some amazingtrips all over the world.
with renowned outdoor athleteslike Jimmy Chin, Alex Honnold,
for those who have seen FreeSolo, the movie about the guy
who climbs all the time.
I've skied with Jimmy, I'veclimbed with Alex, you know,
(17:45):
I've been in Yosemite with thoseguys, I've slept on a portal
edge.
Like, I've just done a lot ofreally cool stuff with those
athletes.
And you know, just kept wantingto make sure that when I got the
call, I was ready.
So I was always kind of makingsure.
That I was in shape and I wasable to do almost everything
because not everybody could.
And when they said, Neil, do youwant to come?
I'd be like, I'm in the portaledge.
(18:07):
You're off the ground by a fewfeet.
How many feet are we talkingabout?
We were probably like a thousandfeet off the ground on the
portal edge.
And you know, you're tied in.
It was really cool.
I didn't have the best night'ssleep, but it was still really
cool.
I mean, Sorry, go ahead.
No, I was going to say, Neil,what in the hell is in the
Monroe blood?
I mean, the freaking competelevel of, I mean, like when you
(18:31):
just go, yeah, I'll raise myhand.
I'll do the 30 mile race.
I'll go sleep on a ledge.
Like, and, and Jamie, I'm like,good Lord, you never want to get
into a competition with him.
It's just like endlesscompetition.
So like what, where, where doesthat come from?
Cause you two both have it.
And you're very different, youknow, but you both have that
like inner drive.
Thanks.
(18:52):
It came from each other, right?
We just would push and challengeeach other all the time with
stupid games at home toentertain ourselves.
It would always turn into afight.
A fight.
Nice.
Yeah.
Always.
We'd start off like, you know,one on ones down a hallway.
And then he would get me intothe wall.
Cause I mean, the hallways,what, like four feet and you had
(19:14):
to try to get by the guy andthen he would give me an elbow
to the head and then I'd swingmy stick at him and then I'd run
and he'd catch me.
And it was always like thisnonstop brawls that we had.
That's crazy.
Love it.
That's great stuff.
And hey, one last thing though,you know, Nike, I got to, I
didn't compete or play with anyof the athletes, but I got to
(19:35):
see so many amazing athletes upclose and personal.
And it was just.
Yeah, let's hear about that.
You know, I mean, being in thecafeteria and seeing MJ getting
like a cheeseburger and fries 10people in front of you.
Oh my god.
You know, I was once waiting fora meeting, watching TV.
We had TVs everywhere aroundcampus showing sports.
And so when asked me what thescore was and I look over my
(19:56):
shoulder and it's Kobe, youknow, so it was very far when
you had that direct interaction,but you would see, you know,
LeBron playing kickball with thedaycare kids or Katie handing
out coffee in the coffee shop.
And so it was just, you know,everything was just about sports
and about competition, aboutwinning and being the best.
(20:17):
And it was so inspiring, youknow, and that's where it kind
of keeps fueling the fire for meto keep pushing.
That's great.
That was all in and around theNike campus.
It was all around the Nikecampus.
Yeah, you would, the athleteswould be there all the time and
they were protected, right?
I mean, like a Kobe or a LeBron,they had their sports marketing
guys with them.
It's almost like secret service.
Keep everybody away.
(20:38):
But every once in a while youwould just have those like
random encounters, like I didwith Kobe.
Right.
That's so cool.
Awesome.
Now, Jamie, back in 2009, as wewere talking before, you had
decided to leave collegecoaching, resigned from Denver
and then started 3D and had aton of success there.
And it was pretty innovativeprogram.
(20:58):
I remember seeing some of thedigital library that you had for
coaches to train and for kids.
I mean, that was really for theclub, so that was pretty neat.
But let's jump ahead to then howyou leave.
3D and start JM3 again, youknow, being a you know, someone
on the frontier there with thisskills training and built this
platform for players, boys,girls, and for coaches and
(21:21):
helping a lot of kids kind ofreach their dreams of playing
college lacrosse and thenhelping a lot of coaches,
whether they're, you know, earlycoaches, intermediate, even
advanced coaches up their game.
So tell us, tell us about allthat innovation.
And how that all came about.
Well, like, like I said, I'vealways just been kind of a
lacrosse nerd and always wantedto learn.
(21:43):
And you know, the cool thingabout 3d was that it was like a
lot about my family.
So I got to coach my, my kids.
My son Colin who's now theoffensive coordinator at
Colgate, you know, was, youknow, like a sixth grader or
seventh grader or something likethat.
And so one of the reasons why Ireally did 3D was just so that I
could like keep coaching becauseI love doing it, but I also
(22:04):
wanted to, you know, as adivision one head coach, it was
really, really hard.
It's really hard to balancefamily.
So this was an amazingopportunity and I also coached
high school, so I coached, Icoached Mountain Vista High
School for five years callingfor four.
And so it was, it was all partof my journey of, of learning,
of applying the box acrossconcepts that I've been
learning.
(22:24):
At Denver and trying to nowapply it to developing players
and then trying to scale thatacross like lots of Lots of
different.
I mean it started out just withcolorado kids and it just kind
of grew but I I really caredabout the coaching always have
And one of the areas where Iprobably want to move on was
just got less about the coachingand more about a business I mean
it became there's like 75 fulltime employees and it was just
(22:45):
like It was not something that Iwas like as interested in doing
it was like groundhog day 2017Colin and Emily, my daughter,
Emily was going off to playlacrosse in college.
She ended up calling, graduatedfrom Georgetown.
And, and Emily graduated fromArizona state.
And so my youngest Lucy at thetime was like an eighth grader
(23:05):
and I really got a chance tostep back and reflect on what I
was happy with, what I was proudof, what I was not satisfied
with.
And I would say the biggestthing was.
I was not satisfied.
I mean, I was proud of a lot ofthe work we did developing Mount
Vista High School and 3D and allthat.
But I was not satisfied with thetransfer of what players, I knew
(23:27):
they knew how to do and whatthey actually did in games in
particular.
Mm hmm.
Meticulous about trying to teachas many different things as
humanly possible.
And, and, and I was, I did it inlots of different ways, but at
the end of the day, I was like,man, these kids can do a lot and
they just not doing it.
And so I would, I would justthrow in there, like what seemed
to separate 3d.
(23:48):
Was that your program was likeone of the only ones who was
actually coaching the kids,right?
I mean a lot of them were justyou know, throwing it out there
and saying all right Let's justbuild it big but like that was
that quality and that attentionto we had a methodology And it
was it was like, you know thebest that I could come up with
at the time But what i've sincerealized though is that there
are new there's a there thereare contemporary skill
(24:08):
acquisition theories calledecological dynamics and a
constraint slide approach thatare our Incredibly powerful.
And it's like, look, any coachis doing this stuff somewhat.
And I was too, but reallyunderstanding the theory behind
it and really diving in has beena, an amazing journey for me.
Also with 3d, when I sold it, Ihad a non compete.
(24:30):
So I had to figure out what todo myself and use my passion for
the game and my knowledge in away that was not doing what I
was doing, which would be liketravel teams or camps or clinics
or training and stuff like that.
So I started diving into thedigital.
I was like, well, I, I reallywould be interested in creating
coaches, education information.
(24:50):
And then I was like, I bet Icould, you know, film was, was
always such a huge part of myown development and the
development of the athletes thatI worked with.
As a college coach, I just knewthat that would be something
that could be powerful.
So I kind of went down that pathof working with athletes that
way.
And, you know, it was a perfectway to kind of work with my kids
too.
So it's just been an amazingjourney of learning through this
(25:10):
whole JM3 adventure and itcontinues on.
That's cool.
Hey, nice.
Everybody, I'm just lookingJamie at the time.
I got 15 more minutes.
Okay.
Awesome.
You think that's good?
Cause I think we're, yeah, Ithink, I think we'll be able to
be good.
Yeah.
That'll be awesome.
Yeah.
Okay.
So Jamie, I wanted to follow upwith that conversation about the
(25:32):
way your own thinking hasevolved around skills and.
You know, we got a lot ofparents and kids who are in that
middle school, high schoolrange, kind of the wheelhouse of
kids you've worked with foreverto try to develop their games.
And so, you know, can you talkabout, and I know I've talked
(25:53):
with you about, you know, the,the way you think about.
For instance, all thesetournaments and everything has
value, but you go to thesetournaments and the number of
touches a kid might get in awhole weekend, you know, versus,
you know, some of theinteractive online training that
you're doing and the way.
that kid can really developtheir skills or that kind of one
(26:15):
on one skills training that Iknow my friend Jay does live
with players.
So can you talk about what rolethey each have to play in a
player's development, smallsided games, which I know you
also are a huge proponent of.
So talk about what do you tellmiddle school and high school
players to do today who reallywant to develop their skills?
(26:38):
Yeah, the biggest thing you guysis that that I would love
parents to sort of reallyconsider is that the the
traditional the traditionalcoaching model is that you will
Master techniques and you'llrehearse them and practice them
and master them thesefundamentals And with the idea
(26:59):
that you will be able to deploythem in a game at the right time
and that is from And when skillacquisition became a thing in
the 1960s, there was aninformation processing theory,
and that's where this comes fromwhich said that we perceive our
surroundings, we make a choice,like a Terminator, like you have
like all these choices to choosefrom, pick your skill, you do
(27:21):
it, and then you make a decisionto do something, and this, this
contemporary skill acquisitiontheory that I, that I referenced
a minute ago called ecologicaldynamics is ecological dynamics.
This is like being studied allover the world, not so much on
lacrosse, but in, in, in, in, intons of different ways, not just
(27:42):
sports.
You can get a PhD in ecologicaldynamics.
Okay.
But what it says is we perceiveour surroundings and we act
instantaneously and we selforganize.
And so what this means iseverything we're doing all this
is not just in sports.
This is all day long.
We perceive our surroundings ashuman beings.
It explains human movement.
We perceive our surroundings.
And we act instantaneously andwe self organize self organized
(28:06):
part means it's different everytime.
It's never the same.
There is no one technique.
There's no one way to doanything because there's no two
situations that occur exactlythe same.
And it's all about perception.
So when you think about thewords lacrosse IQ.
What does that mean think aboutthe words lacrosse IQ.
What does that mean?
MacBook Pro Microphone-2 (28:25):
What does that mean?
MacBook Pro Microphone-1 (28:27):
I thought I knew, but perhaps I
did not.
Join us next week as we expandour definition and take into
consideration the informationprocessing theory as well as
ecological dynamics.
This is going to be interesting.
Indeed.
Until we meet again.
Here's to hoping you find thetwine.
(28:49):
We're signing off here at theget the lax scoop.
Thanks again so much.
We will see you the next time.
It's time for Get the LackScoop, a podcast bringing you
all the people and stuff youshould know in the game of
lacrosse.
We take lack seriously, butourselves, not so much.
Join host Big Dog and Jaybirdand the biggest names in the
game brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training.
(00:23):
Ron Doglish, the big dog, was acollegiate football and lacrosse
player at Brown.
He was also an assistantlacrosse coach and the executive
director of the SportsFoundation.
And Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, athree time All American
midfielder at Brown.
He was the captain of the U.
S.
Junior National Team and is thefounder of JML.
(00:43):
And Joining us in the studio,Steve Grisolfi, who's collegiate
lacrosse career statisticsequals one goal against
Dartmouth brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training, helping the
next generation of lacrosseplayers get to the next level.
Hello, everyone, and welcome tothe Get the Lack Scoop podcast.
(01:03):
Today, we are sharing the secondportion of our three part
interview series with BrownAthletic Hall of Famers and
brothers, Jamie and Neil Monroe.
If you have not listened to partone, We highly recommend you go
back and do so.
As it ties in beautifully towhat we discussed going forward,
you will find this interview inprogress.
(01:26):
All right, Neil, enough, Jamie,Neil, enough, Jamie, let's get,
let's, let's get to you.
All right.
As I mentioned, I, you know, oneof the fun things about this
podcast is like, you know, youknow, guys forever, you play
with them, but it's not likeyou're really asked these kinds
of questions.
So, you know, thinking back oflike you being that we talked
about you being, you know, ateam defensive and offensive
(01:48):
MVP, how, how did you becomethat player?
You know, not every attack mangrows up wanting to ride their
ass off and pick up crazy, everyloose ball in the offensive end.
But you know, those of us whoknow the game know if you give,
especially the of offenses, youplayed with a few extra
possessions, a game, you'regonna win a lot of games that
(02:12):
come from those plays.
So anyway, I'm just wondering,like, how did you become that
kind of player that reallydistinguished your style, the
way you played?
Yeah, I think it happenedfreshman year in my first game,
a couple of us at the end of thebench were joking that I could
have probably still had my jeanson under my sweats because Dom
didn't even look my way.
(02:34):
And when you looked at theattackman that we had, you know,
towers in the middies with lowand obviously the other way
around and UJ, I realized that Ihad to find a way to make a
mark.
And.
I don't know if you guysremember, but I started getting
some opportunities on the wingsof the face off and I picked up
a couple of GBs there and Istarted getting a little bit
(02:55):
more time.
And as I started getting a fewmore and scrapping and hustling,
I started getting a couple ofmidday shifts.
And so when I became a sophomoreand it was me, Andy and Darren,
two future Ivy league players ofthe year and first team, all
Americans and nothing againstthose guys, but if it's not, you
know, in their advantage on thatGB, they're not really going for
it.
You know, 60, 40 for the otherguy.
(03:16):
Yeah.
We'll chase that one down later.
Right.
So I had to figure out my niche.
Right.
And then when Andy moved tomidfield.
And I get Oliver, I'm notpicking on Oliver either, but I
got a better shot of gettingthat ball than him.
So it was a little bit knowingmy personnel and then Jay, I'm
going to pick on you because youguys got pretty used to having
me get in the hole.
I remember many times seeing yougo, Neil.
(03:37):
You got this.
Get back there.
And so it's just, it was thisself perpetuating thing, but I
just started to love it.
You know, you look at theseVirginia teams that Lars has.
They ride the shit out of theball.
And I was kind of like thatearly guy who was just like, I
am going to go a hundred and 10from when the ball's down until
(04:00):
either I have to get back in thehole for Jay or Andy, or until
they have it on the other side.
So the only thing I think aboutis why Dom at that point, wasn't
like this shy should be a D midior an LSM.
I don't know why he kept me onattack.
That's probably the questionreally.
That we got to kind of figure itout.
It was working.
You had plenty of goals, plentyof assists.
(04:22):
No doubt.
But it was, I loved it, man.
We had the best time playingdown there and, and scrapping
that hard to get an extra.
I mean, you put the ball inDarren stick one more time.
You probably get another shotyourself.
You know, it's, it's all worthit.
There's definitely some rewardsfor the effort.
I was going to say, Neil, I meanyou know, What you're talking
about to me and knowing thatteam is the importance of
(04:45):
understanding how you can fill arole and make a huge
contribution.
Cause if I was answering thatlast question, I'd probably say,
because you became a hell of afinisher, you know, as, as
you're mentioning, there's a lotof guys on that offense who are
going to draw attention, but youfricking play.
And I remember a lot of times,you know, you're on the end of
(05:05):
some of those multiple slidesequences.
And you got to finish, you know,and so you, you became an engine
of both starting the offense, Ithink with your riding and your
ground balls.
And then obviously you were onthe, you were on the receiving
end of a lot of those, you know,assists.
So, yeah, no, you know, and Iactually attribute a lot to
(05:26):
hoops.
He would always be like one.
Get over here.
He's like, you got to startcontributing a little bit more,
right?
20 points for an attackman isnot enough.
Here's what I want you to do,right?
You would be like just gettingin my ear, but in such a, you
know, authentic hoops way whereit was more of just like, you're
going to be better and I'm justhelping you get there.
He wasn't putting you down oranything.
It was really incredible.
(05:47):
Right.
That's great.
Now, Jamie, as we were reviewingin the opening, you were an
assistant there at Yale and yoursuccess in that position for
nine years then led to youbecoming the first head coach
out there at Denver in thesummer of 98.
So tell us what that experiencewas like, you know, taking this
club program then, you know,eventually to a playoff team,
multiple times hitting the NCAAtournament.
(06:10):
So tell us what that was like.
It was really exciting.
I really wanted to be a divisionone coach and it was at the time
there was not as many programsand it was very it was very hard
to become a division.
And I really only got the jobbecause everybody else turned it
down.
So I was pretty happy aboutthat.
And you know, it was actuallydivision two.
But it was like a club.
(06:31):
I mean, there was, there wasvery few resources.
Our, our office was like, therewas Tier A sports and Tier B
sports.
And we were a Tier B sport.
And the Tier B sports were like,in this like old dining hall.
It was like a ghost dining hall.
And I shared with my, with myassistant at the time, but I
didn't care at all.
All I really wanted to do wasjust build a program and it was
(06:54):
an amazing opportunity.
And I, Just recruited as if Iwas, you know, going to be
winning national championshipsand just and it was just an
amazing learning experience.
I mean, it's kind of crazy.
It's like being, it's like beinga first time parent, though, you
know, you're just like crazyabout about everything and in a
good way and in a great learningway.
(07:16):
So.
It really, I've always been kindof a student of the game.
I learned a lot when I was atYale.
Mike Waldvogel was an incrediblementor for me and I learned a
ton.
And so I was able to sort ofcontinue the learning process.
But now as a head coach, you'relike, you got to deal with
literally everything fromrecruiting.
I mean, our budget was so small.
It was how small we talk.
I had to fundraise.
(07:37):
I mean, I probably fundraised 10million in 11 years.
Including like scholarships,including like literally
everything because we justweren't getting handed it, but
we, but the more we started tohave some success and the more
we were able to get people tochip in financially, you know,
it just helped us build thewhole program.
And so I really got intorecruiting Canadians, which was
(07:58):
an interesting thing.
So, cause I just startedrealizing that, you know, I
wasn't going to be able tocompete with the, with the
Virginians of the world.
Those levels of recruits, but Icould get these junior a players
and it really turned me on.
I'd played a little bit of boxacross.
You'd mentioned that, but it washard to do with coaching, but I
didn't know the value of it as aplayer.
And then when I startedrecruiting it, I just was kind
(08:19):
of blown away.
So now were those guys like incollege, the junior guys?
So they're like with the juniora players already in college
because I know they come in alittle older right when they
come to it back then becauserecruiting in general was older.
These Canadians were older.
The best kids in junior a were21.
So, I mean, I had like JeffSnyder was like a 22 year old
freshman.
Wow.
And I had a, I had a lot ofthose guys, so, so they hadn't
(08:41):
gone to college before,although, say what?
So they hadn't gone to collegebefore?
They were playing Junior a,yeah.
Yeah.
A lot of'em were hockey guys orthey were just like, you know,
they working at, you know, TommyTomato, Tommy Tomato, or
whatever.
I mean, just like waitingtables.
I mean, they were just gonna befiremen or whatever.
Oh, I gotcha.
Jeff Snyder, but you know,that's where I recruited Brownie
(09:03):
and I kind of got, you know,Matt Brown was actually, I got
an email from Matt Brown.
That was on one of yourquestions, Matt Brown is the
current head coach at Denvernow.
And I got an email from this guyand it was in the early days of
email, to be honest with you, itwas like maybe one of the first
emails I ever opened.
I mean, it was like a thousandor something like that.
And he was like, yeah, I'm fromBurnaby, British Columbia.
I'm a 17 year old.
(09:24):
I led the, I led the BCLA in hattricks this year and, you know,
and I started looking it up andI was like, wow, this kid looks
like he could be pretty good.
And I went up, did a home visit,actually got a ski day in at
Whistler as well.
Yeah, that was pretty littlebenefit.
But and and then I got apipeline into into Burnaby,
(09:44):
British Columbia.
And that was like, at the timethey were the best program in
British Columbia.
They won a lot of mental cups.
It was just the junior nationalchampionship.
And we had a bunch of kids tocome through from, from Burnaby.
And so, yeah, it was, it wasobviously an amazing experience
and we.
We built a good program.
That's cool.
And then was Hilgey your firstassistant?
Yeah.
Peter, the guy, the guy who wasat McDonough is at McDonough.
(10:10):
Peter Hilgar was his youngestbrother played at Maryland.
It was my assistant for thefirst three years.
I got you.
Oh yeah.
You know, you, you mentionedMatt Brown, Jamie, and I think
one of the, the other, likethings that, that to me.
You can tell a great coach whenhe's hired great assistants.
It's like the coaching treething.
So obviously right now you gotMatt Brown.
(10:32):
He just mentioned recruiting,you know, as the head coach out
at Denver now.
And I think Matt went on to beon your staff as well.
And then you got John Torpy whowere obviously all very
interested in the new, new coachat Brown, who I think was also
on your staff.
So.
Talk about those two guys andhow, you know, how rewarding
(10:53):
it's been to see them becomehead coaches and maybe
particularly coach Torpy, youknow, and and what you think of
him taking over your alma mater.
I love it.
Torp and I worked together forfive years.
So he was 2005 through, whichwas Brownie's senior year,
through 2009.
John Torpey is an incredibleguy.
But you'll, you'll never meet amore personable person in your
(11:15):
life.
He's like, he, he can relate toanybody.
He's absolutely hysterical, buthe's also maybe the most driven,
hardworking, and not justhardworking.
There's a lot of people thatwork hard.
This dude, this guy is soproductive.
It's insane how much this guygets done.
I'm telling you like he'll getmore done before 10 a.
m.
on a Monday morning than mostpeople get done in a week and
(11:36):
I'm not even exactly he isincredible, like I said with his
relationships with people.
He's got a really good He's gotan edge to him, but he's got a
he's he can do it in a way Thatyou still love him So like he
can be hard on you without like,you know Basically being an
asshole and it's like it'sreally it's it's a real talent
(11:57):
honestly.
And and he just He goes throughhis life with this sort of
groundedness of family and faithand his love for the game and
his love to learn and to notleave and, you know, and to be
as resourceful as, as humanlypossible to try to win.
(12:18):
But also he really cares aboutpeople.
So I think what you'll find isthat what he's going to do for
Brown is create an amazingculture.
He will bring the program back.
To where we want it to be asproblems here on this call.
And yeah, it was just an amazingexperience.
It was great to work with him.
Hey, Jamie, I'm going to chimein.
Cause he's also a completeanimal for Jamie's 40th while he
was at Denver.
(12:38):
He wanted to run a 50 K.
So the two of us signed up andtorps is like, I'm in the
corpse.
He couldn't train.
He had to train on an ellipticalfor a 31 mile race.
So we all code my starting line.
Not only does he beat us by anhour, but he goes an extra 5K.
'cause he took the wrong turn.
(12:59):
serious, not elliptical.
He, he took the wrong turnbecause he actually, we, I was
like, oh shoot, I got, I gottarock on my shoe right at the
beginning of the race.
I'm like, I, I really need totake it out for a second.
He is like, dude, I can't stop.
I'm gonna like, my, my, mycalf's gonna, you know, get, get
stiff or something.
And then he decides to try towin the race.
(13:19):
He actually went up with theleaders and was like flying
through like, he went throughthe first aid station and just
shoved like potato chips in hisface and just kept running
through the entire thing becausewe lost them in every aid
station we went to his name waslike not on it was on the first
one and then after that we neversaw him again and we were like,
(13:39):
because he tried to win the raceand he was like right behind the
leaders and then the leaders allof a sudden stopped in the
middle of the woods and werelike, yeah, I think we went the
wrong way.
Basically.
He's like, wait, what?
They went three miles out of theway, three miles back.
And then he somehow caught up tous.
Oh my God.
I was going to say, he told astory.
(14:03):
He played basketball with Jamiesomewhere.
Like he's like, you know,Jamie's like, Hey, you want to
play some pickup basketball?
It's like, next thing you know,it's 99 to 99.
We're playing by one.
We're both like, we're notgiving up.
And.
Did that really happen, Jamie?
We used to regularly play fullcourt one on one, twos and
threes to a hundred, win byfour.
(14:25):
Win by four.
By four.
It goes too fast.
Yes, yeah, of course, Jamie, ofcourse.
The game to 500.
We transitioned to, uh, JML.
And let's do that.
We'll get into a little bit ofthe mindset.
We'll do a mindset minute Ladiesand gentlemen, what was just
described is a window into whatis known as the superhuman
(14:48):
reserve.
There is a hidden power insideeach and every one of us, what
some call the superhumanreserve.
It's that untapped well ofstrength, intelligence, and
resilience that reveals itselfwhen we need it most.
You've heard the stories.
Such as a mother lifting a caroff her trapped child, an
athlete pushing beyondexhaustion to claim an
(15:11):
improbable victory, an ordinaryperson defying impossible odds.
These are not accidents.
These are proof of what we allcarry within us.
Russian scientists studied thisphenomenon as they sought ways
to push their Olympic athletesbeyond known human limits.
They discovered that most peopleoperate at only a fraction of
(15:33):
their true potential, but underthe right conditions, when
stakes are high enough, when themind believes beyond a doubt.
Something miraculous happens.
The body obeys.
The impossible becomes possible.
We are stronger than we seem.
Smarter than we know.
Capable of far more than we'vebeen led to believe.
(15:53):
But here's the key.
It's not just about force ofwill.
It's about allowing themiraculous to unfold.
It's about trusting that withinus lies something extraordinary.
Something that will rise whencalled upon.
So I ask you, on the lacrossefield, And, in life in general,
what are you holding back?
What would happen if you stoppeddoubting your own limitless
(16:16):
nature?
The superhuman reserve is notreserved for the chosen few,
like coach John Torpy, whodecided to Win an ultramarathon
without even training.
It's in all of us waiting forthe moment when we stop
resisting and start receivingIt's time to step into the
impossible because the truth isyou are far more powerful than
(16:39):
you've ever imagined Now we willreturn to our interview and you
will find that interview pickingup right where we left off Now,
Neil, that, that 30 mile race isa good segue to you.
I mean, you've stayed involvedin athletics your whole life,
but in a very different way, youknow, and professionally, I know
you've worked for companies likeNike and North Face and you
(17:04):
know, as we mentioned, you'reout in Idaho now and I know have
been an avid skier and outdoorsperson.
Talk about how, you know, yourprofessional career has kept you
in an athletic realm and some ofthe people that you've been
inspired by in that work.
Yeah, I worked for the NorthFace for, you know, over 15
(17:24):
years.
And so it was always deeplyconnected in with the outdoor
skiing, climbing, running,mountaineering.
And I was really lucky.
I got to go on some amazingtrips all over the world.
with renowned outdoor athleteslike Jimmy Chin, Alex Honnold,
for those who have seen FreeSolo, the movie about the guy
who climbs all the time.
I've skied with Jimmy, I'veclimbed with Alex, you know,
(17:45):
I've been in Yosemite with thoseguys, I've slept on a portal
edge.
Like, I've just done a lot ofreally cool stuff with those
athletes.
And you know, just kept wantingto make sure that when I got the
call, I was ready.
So I was always kind of makingsure.
That I was in shape and I wasable to do almost everything
because not everybody could.
And when they said, Neil, do youwant to come?
I'd be like, I'm in the portaledge.
(18:07):
You're off the ground by a fewfeet.
How many feet are we talkingabout?
We were probably like a thousandfeet off the ground on the
portal edge.
And you know, you're tied in.
It was really cool.
I didn't have the best night'ssleep, but it was still really
cool.
I mean, Sorry, go ahead.
No, I was going to say, Neil,what in the hell is in the
Monroe blood?
I mean, the freaking competelevel of, I mean, like when you
(18:31):
just go, yeah, I'll raise myhand.
I'll do the 30 mile race.
I'll go sleep on a ledge.
Like, and, and Jamie, I'm like,good Lord, you never want to get
into a competition with him.
It's just like endlesscompetition.
So like what, where, where doesthat come from?
Cause you two both have it.
And you're very different, youknow, but you both have that
like inner drive.
Thanks.
(18:52):
It came from each other, right?
We just would push and challengeeach other all the time with
stupid games at home toentertain ourselves.
It would always turn into afight.
A fight.
Nice.
Yeah.
Always.
We'd start off like, you know,one on ones down a hallway.
And then he would get me intothe wall.
Cause I mean, the hallways,what, like four feet and you had
(19:14):
to try to get by the guy andthen he would give me an elbow
to the head and then I'd swingmy stick at him and then I'd run
and he'd catch me.
And it was always like thisnonstop brawls that we had.
That's crazy.
Love it.
That's great stuff.
And hey, one last thing though,you know, Nike, I got to, I
didn't compete or play with anyof the athletes, but I got to
(19:35):
see so many amazing athletes upclose and personal.
And it was just.
Yeah, let's hear about that.
You know, I mean, being in thecafeteria and seeing MJ getting
like a cheeseburger and fries 10people in front of you.
Oh my god.
You know, I was once waiting fora meeting, watching TV.
We had TVs everywhere aroundcampus showing sports.
And so when asked me what thescore was and I look over my
(19:56):
shoulder and it's Kobe, youknow, so it was very far when
you had that direct interaction,but you would see, you know,
LeBron playing kickball with thedaycare kids or Katie handing
out coffee in the coffee shop.
And so it was just, you know,everything was just about sports
and about competition, aboutwinning and being the best.
(20:17):
And it was so inspiring, youknow, and that's where it kind
of keeps fueling the fire for meto keep pushing.
That's great.
That was all in and around theNike campus.
It was all around the Nikecampus.
Yeah, you would, the athleteswould be there all the time and
they were protected, right?
I mean, like a Kobe or a LeBron,they had their sports marketing
guys with them.
It's almost like secret service.
Keep everybody away.
(20:38):
But every once in a while youwould just have those like
random encounters, like I didwith Kobe.
Right.
That's so cool.
Awesome.
Now, Jamie, back in 2009, as wewere talking before, you had
decided to leave collegecoaching, resigned from Denver
and then started 3D and had aton of success there.
And it was pretty innovativeprogram.
(20:58):
I remember seeing some of thedigital library that you had for
coaches to train and for kids.
I mean, that was really for theclub, so that was pretty neat.
But let's jump ahead to then howyou leave.
3D and start JM3 again, youknow, being a you know, someone
on the frontier there with thisskills training and built this
platform for players, boys,girls, and for coaches and
(21:21):
helping a lot of kids kind ofreach their dreams of playing
college lacrosse and thenhelping a lot of coaches,
whether they're, you know, earlycoaches, intermediate, even
advanced coaches up their game.
So tell us, tell us about allthat innovation.
And how that all came about.
Well, like, like I said, I'vealways just been kind of a
lacrosse nerd and always wantedto learn.
(21:43):
And you know, the cool thingabout 3d was that it was like a
lot about my family.
So I got to coach my, my kids.
My son Colin who's now theoffensive coordinator at
Colgate, you know, was, youknow, like a sixth grader or
seventh grader or something likethat.
And so one of the reasons why Ireally did 3D was just so that I
could like keep coaching becauseI love doing it, but I also
(22:04):
wanted to, you know, as adivision one head coach, it was
really, really hard.
It's really hard to balancefamily.
So this was an amazingopportunity and I also coached
high school, so I coached, Icoached Mountain Vista High
School for five years callingfor four.
And so it was, it was all partof my journey of, of learning,
of applying the box acrossconcepts that I've been
learning.
(22:24):
At Denver and trying to nowapply it to developing players
and then trying to scale thatacross like lots of Lots of
different.
I mean it started out just withcolorado kids and it just kind
of grew but I I really caredabout the coaching always have
And one of the areas where Iprobably want to move on was
just got less about the coachingand more about a business I mean
it became there's like 75 fulltime employees and it was just
(22:45):
like It was not something that Iwas like as interested in doing
it was like groundhog day 2017Colin and Emily, my daughter,
Emily was going off to playlacrosse in college.
She ended up calling, graduatedfrom Georgetown.
And, and Emily graduated fromArizona state.
And so my youngest Lucy at thetime was like an eighth grader
(23:05):
and I really got a chance tostep back and reflect on what I
was happy with, what I was proudof, what I was not satisfied
with.
And I would say the biggestthing was.
I was not satisfied.
I mean, I was proud of a lot ofthe work we did developing Mount
Vista High School and 3D and allthat.
But I was not satisfied with thetransfer of what players, I knew
(23:27):
they knew how to do and whatthey actually did in games in
particular.
Mm hmm.
Meticulous about trying to teachas many different things as
humanly possible.
And, and, and I was, I did it inlots of different ways, but at
the end of the day, I was like,man, these kids can do a lot and
they just not doing it.
And so I would, I would justthrow in there, like what seemed
to separate 3d.
(23:48):
Was that your program was likeone of the only ones who was
actually coaching the kids,right?
I mean a lot of them were justyou know, throwing it out there
and saying all right Let's justbuild it big but like that was
that quality and that attentionto we had a methodology And it
was it was like, you know thebest that I could come up with
at the time But what i've sincerealized though is that there
are new there's a there thereare contemporary skill
(24:08):
acquisition theories calledecological dynamics and a
constraint slide approach thatare our Incredibly powerful.
And it's like, look, any coachis doing this stuff somewhat.
And I was too, but reallyunderstanding the theory behind
it and really diving in has beena, an amazing journey for me.
Also with 3d, when I sold it, Ihad a non compete.
(24:30):
So I had to figure out what todo myself and use my passion for
the game and my knowledge in away that was not doing what I
was doing, which would be liketravel teams or camps or clinics
or training and stuff like that.
So I started diving into thedigital.
I was like, well, I, I reallywould be interested in creating
coaches, education information.
(24:50):
And then I was like, I bet Icould, you know, film was, was
always such a huge part of myown development and the
development of the athletes thatI worked with.
As a college coach, I just knewthat that would be something
that could be powerful.
So I kind of went down that pathof working with athletes that
way.
And, you know, it was a perfectway to kind of work with my kids
too.
So it's just been an amazingjourney of learning through this
(25:10):
whole JM3 adventure and itcontinues on.
That's cool.
Hey, nice.
Everybody, I'm just lookingJamie at the time.
I got 15 more minutes.
Okay.
Awesome.
You think that's good?
Cause I think we're, yeah, Ithink, I think we'll be able to
be good.
Yeah.
That'll be awesome.
Yeah.
Okay.
So Jamie, I wanted to follow upwith that conversation about the
(25:32):
way your own thinking hasevolved around skills and.
You know, we got a lot ofparents and kids who are in that
middle school, high schoolrange, kind of the wheelhouse of
kids you've worked with foreverto try to develop their games.
And so, you know, can you talkabout, and I know I've talked
(25:53):
with you about, you know, the,the way you think about.
For instance, all thesetournaments and everything has
value, but you go to thesetournaments and the number of
touches a kid might get in awhole weekend, you know, versus,
you know, some of theinteractive online training that
you're doing and the way.
that kid can really developtheir skills or that kind of one
(26:15):
on one skills training that Iknow my friend Jay does live
with players.
So can you talk about what rolethey each have to play in a
player's development, smallsided games, which I know you
also are a huge proponent of.
So talk about what do you tellmiddle school and high school
players to do today who reallywant to develop their skills?
(26:38):
Yeah, the biggest thing you guysis that that I would love
parents to sort of reallyconsider is that the the
traditional the traditionalcoaching model is that you will
Master techniques and you'llrehearse them and practice them
and master them thesefundamentals And with the idea
(26:59):
that you will be able to deploythem in a game at the right time
and that is from And when skillacquisition became a thing in
the 1960s, there was aninformation processing theory,
and that's where this comes fromwhich said that we perceive our
surroundings, we make a choice,like a Terminator, like you have
like all these choices to choosefrom, pick your skill, you do
(27:21):
it, and then you make a decisionto do something, and this, this
contemporary skill acquisitiontheory that I, that I referenced
a minute ago called ecologicaldynamics is ecological dynamics.
This is like being studied allover the world, not so much on
lacrosse, but in, in, in, in, intons of different ways, not just
(27:42):
sports.
You can get a PhD in ecologicaldynamics.
Okay.
But what it says is we perceiveour surroundings and we act
instantaneously and we selforganize.
And so what this means iseverything we're doing all this
is not just in sports.
This is all day long.
We perceive our surroundings ashuman beings.
It explains human movement.
We perceive our surroundings.
And we act instantaneously andwe self organize self organized
(28:06):
part means it's different everytime.
It's never the same.
There is no one technique.
There's no one way to doanything because there's no two
situations that occur exactlythe same.
And it's all about perception.
So when you think about thewords lacrosse IQ.
What does that mean think aboutthe words lacrosse IQ.
What does that mean?
MacBook Pro Microphone-2 (28:25):
What does that mean?
MacBook Pro Microphone-1 (28:27):
I thought I knew, but perhaps I
did not.
Join us next week as we expandour definition and take into
consideration the informationprocessing theory as well as
ecological dynamics.
This is going to be interesting.
Indeed.
Until we meet again.
Here's to hoping you find thetwine.
(28:49):
We're signing off here at theget the lax scoop.
Thanks again so much.
We will see you the next time.
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