March 5, 2025 • 35 mins
Get the Lax Scoop, hosted by Big Dawg and Jaybird, is a lacrosse-focused podcast featuring interviews with prominent figures in the sport. This episode focuses on skills development, coaching methodologies, and the evolving philosophy around training in lacrosse. Discussions include the importance of real-game contexts over traditional drills, the benefits of small-sided games, and contemporary theories like ecological dynamics in skill acquisition. The episode features an interview with Jamie and Neil Monroe, Brown Athletic Hall of Famers, touching on personal anecdotes and their lifelong connection to lacrosse. Training tips for young players, comparisons of traditional and modern coaching practices, and insights into creating competitive, enjoyable training environments were also shared. The segment concludes with lighter moments discussing off-field experiences and familial bonds forged through lacrosse.
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Links to training videos:
Master The 5 Best Dodges From the Wing!
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Jules Heningburg: https://thelaxlab.com/
Check out!... Coach Tintle's Lacrosse Barn:
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SuccessHotline with Dr. Rob Gilbert on Ironclad & Apple Podcasts
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
It's time for Get the LackScoop, a podcast bringing you
all the people and stuff youshould know in the game of
lacrosse.
We take lack seriously, butourselves, not so much.
Join host Big Dog and Jaybirdand the biggest names in the
game brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training.
(00:23):
Ron Doglish, the big dog, was acollegiate football and lacrosse
player at Brown.
He was also an assistantlacrosse coach and the executive
director of the SportsFoundation.
And Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, athree time All American
midfielder at Brown.
He was the captain of the U.
S.
Junior National Team and is thefounder of JML.
(00:43):
And Joining us in the studio,Steve Grisolfi, who's collegiate
lacrosse career statisticsequals one goal against
Dartmouth brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training, helping the
next generation of lacrosseplayers get to the next level.
Hello, everyone, and welcome tothe Get the Lack Scoop podcast.
(01:03):
Today, we are sharing our threepart interview series with Brown
Athletic Hall of Famers andbrothers, Jamie and Neil Monroe.
If you have not listened to partone, We highly recommend you go
back and do so.
As it ties in beautifully towhat we discussed going forward,
you will find this interview inprogress.
So Jamie, I wanted to follow upwith that conversation about the
(01:26):
way your own thinking hasevolved around skills and.
You know, we got a lot ofparents and kids who are in that
middle school, high schoolrange, kind of the wheelhouse of
kids you've worked with foreverto try to develop their games.
And so, you know, can you talkabout, and I know I've talked
(01:46):
with you about, you know, the,the way you think about.
For instance, all thesetournaments and everything has
value, but you go to thesetournaments and the number of
touches a kid might get in awhole weekend, you know, versus,
you know, some of theinteractive online training that
you're doing and the way.
that kid can really developtheir skills or that kind of one
(02:09):
on one skills training that Iknow my friend Jay does live
with players.
So can you talk about what rolethey each have to play in a
player's development, smallsided games, which I know you
also are a huge proponent of.
So talk about what do you tellmiddle school and high school
players to do today who reallywant to develop their skills?
(02:31):
Yeah, the biggest thing you guysis that that I would love
parents to sort of reallyconsider is that the the
traditional the traditionalcoaching model is that you will
Master techniques and you'llrehearse them and practice them
and master them thesefundamentals And with the idea
(02:52):
that you will be able to deploythem in a game at the right time
and that is from And when skillacquisition became a thing in
the 1960s, there was aninformation processing theory,
and that's where this comes fromwhich said that we perceive our
surroundings, we make a choice,like a Terminator, like you have
like all these choices to choosefrom, pick your skill, you do
(03:15):
it, and then you make a decisionto do something, and this, this
contemporary skill acquisitiontheory that I, that I referenced
a minute ago called ecologicaldynamics is ecological dynamics.
This is like being studied allover the world, not so much on
lacrosse, but in, in, in, in, intons of different ways, not just
(03:35):
sports.
You can get a PhD in ecologicaldynamics.
Okay.
But what it says is we perceiveour surroundings and we act
instantaneously and we selforganize.
And so what this means iseverything we're doing all this
is not just in sports.
This is all day long.
We perceive our surroundings ashuman beings.
It explains human movement.
We perceive our surroundings.
And we act instantaneously andwe self organize self organized
(03:59):
part means it's different everytime.
It's never the same.
There is no one technique.
There's no one way to doanything because there's no two
situations that occur exactlythe same.
And it's all about perception.
So when you think about thewords lacrosse IQ.
What does that mean?
Lacrosse IQ means a smartplayer, right?
Lacrosse IQ basically is yourdecision making paired with your
(04:20):
skills.
So for parents the mostimportant thing that your kids
can do is find coaches that aregoing to do stuff with them that
are live One on O's don't makeyou better because there's no
decision making.
There's no lacrosse IQ.
Does it mean it's a total wasteof time to ever work on stick
(04:42):
work?
No, but you're not actuallygetting better at the game.
And so there's just not enoughtime to spend a lot of time when
you're not actually gettingbetter at the game itself.
So just being in a one on onewhere you get to dodge a
defender is going to be lightyears better than dodging a
cone.
You show me a technique of aperfect technique, I'll put a
defender on that player, thattechnique will not happen that
way.
(05:02):
It just doesn't and so it's backto the whole free play thing.
It's kind of how we all grew upplaying sports And which is kind
of what's brought me back to allof this is that the way we grew
up playing was just we playedand sure Neil referenced that I
would do wall ball if I didn'thave somebody to play with, but
I would automatically go playwith somebody you ask about that
competitiveness.
It probably stems from that.
(05:23):
We just played.
And so the bottom line forparents is club is a fun
experience.
You need to play the full fieldgame.
You would like to be have somelevel of fun.
Yeah.
Of of of a good experience goodcompetition Don't depend on your
club to develop you Becausebecause there's just not enough
(05:43):
time and and also like you talkabout touches You know, you
might literally, you know yourparents you've seen it count
count your son's touches in thegame You might get 15 of them in
a game but but also not alltouches are created equal so you
can get thousands of touches onthe wall But then there's no
decision making so we got tofind this balance of context Of
(06:04):
offense and defense and decisionmaking in situations that are
that are small slices of thegame and reps That's why these
small sided games are so good.
It's why box lacrosse playershave gotten so good It's a
smaller sided game that has adifferent constraints that allow
these players to learn thesesmaller situations that
(06:26):
translate beautifully to thefull field game, so Dive into go
to the ecological lacrossepodcast that I've been doing
lately if you want to learn moreabout it start digging into this
It's a total game changer, andunfortunately, hardly anybody
does it.
MacBook Pro Microphone & (06:43):
Yeah, I mean, I, I agree a hundred
percent there, Jamie, but, youknow, working on your skills so
that you can pass, catch, shootand move your feet effectively
is something that every player,you know, must get the reps on
before, you know, in betweenpracticing, playing with other
players, you know, otherwise, aplayer simply doesn't have the
skills they need to be able tonot only compete, but to enjoy
(07:06):
competing.
Enjoy the game.
So when I train players, whetherit's in person or online, we go
through this method of howthey'll approach incorporating
what they've learned inone-on-one or small group
sessions into team practices andgames or, and even free play
situations.
So it goes like this, like theywould have a plan of what
they're gonna do, whether it's amove or a cut or what have you,
(07:29):
and then they'd evaluate rightthen and there, you know, and
this is for something new thatthey haven't tried before.
But they'd evaluate then andthere how they did, and then
make any needed adjustments thenext time they go at it.
So until, you know, I tell themuntil they get that real
experience of how this move, orlet's say this release point on
a shot is going to work in realtime in a real situation,
(07:51):
they're not gonna really knowhow it works.
So I think everyone would agreethat players need both types of
play.
And as far as wall ball, I mean,I think every player should use.
Wall ball the same way and that,you know, they need to get their
technical skills better so thatway players aren't showing up at
practice, let's say, with aterrible offhand, you know,
their non-dominant hand, forexample, and that they shouldn't
(08:13):
be coming to practice to try towork on catching and throwing
with their offhand for the veryfirst time in a team practice.
Because, you know, thatsituation is just kind of like
a, a drill kill situation, youknow?
Yeah, and as I said, Jay, Idon't think Jamie ever thinks
about this stuff, really.
He just kind of does shit, andhe doesn't really put any
thought into it, you know.
Self organization, dog.
(08:35):
Yeah, I gotta, I'm very selforganized.
I mean, yeah, is that, I gotta,I gotta rethink everything, Jay.
I gotta rethink everything.
I don't know what the hell I'mdoing.
Your perception, Ron.
Organize yourself.
Let's go.
Get with it.
Now, Neil, you've been coachingsome youth lacrosse yourself in
your area out in Sun Valley.
Out and with Sun Valleylacrosse, rather out in Idaho,
(08:56):
and I saw that you're workingwith seventh and eighth graders.
And I think that is just a greatage group where they can really
start doing stuff.
And if kids are taught the rightway and taught to dream big,
they can really start reallyaccomplishing some things out on
the field.
So tell us, you know, what yourexperience has been like and and
what your approach has been withthese young guys.
Yeah.
So last year, my son's a now aninth grader, but I coached the
(09:20):
seven, eight team.
And we actually worked withJamie and jam three to start to
put some of his strategies intoplace and it was an incredible
experience.
We have such raw athletes out inthis valley.
You just think about them in themountain sport environment.
I think every kid on our teamcould probably do a backflip on
skis, you know, they wheelinginto practice on their mountain
(09:43):
bikes, but they just haven't hada really good structure.
Or commitment to lacrosse.
And so there's a few parents, aguy played at Yale, one who
played a little bit atMiddlebury, and we've been
committed to try to make adifference.
And so really trying to make itmore part of their every day.
So making it part of the cultureout here and not just kind of
the fourth or fifth sport, wetry to make it really fun.
(10:06):
Try to make it competitive.
I mean, you heard Jamie and Italking about everything was a
competition.
Kids love it.
Boys, girls, young and old.
If you play for a competition,they want to win and they'll try
harder.
We also leave them wanting alittle bit more so that they
want to come back because it wasso good.
And so it's been this approachthat we started to implement
last year.
(10:27):
I've been coaching over the lastsix months, actually all ages
and all, both genders to reallytry to bring lacrosse to this
Valley.
We have some goals that we'veput forth that we want to be the
best in the state.
It's a small, big state, smalllacrosse state.
And we're starting to do it andit's been an incredible journey
so far.
We've seen kids who have neverplayed the game before.
(10:51):
Improved dramatically just in afew months through touches in
the right situation is Jamiehighlighted earlier through
putting them in situations wherethey can use the skills that
they've acquired to makedecisions and learn how to
problem solve.
And it's been amazing and it isso much fun.
We go three times a week, twotimes a week, depending on the
groups.
(11:11):
And it's really starting tobecome part of this Valley and
we have big goals to go further.
That's awesome.
Now, if you're setting up thiskind of smaller sided situation
so the kids can get moretouches, you know, you're out on
a field, you know, we've got alot of coaches who listen to the
podcast and parents and kids.
So how would they set that up?
Like, tell us the setupbasically.
(11:32):
Yeah, I mean, depending on whatwe're trying to do, if you look
at, you kind of groundeverything at a principle of
play, right?
So if you want to basically justhave something around handling
pressure.
You could start off by breakinginto groups of five and do a
three on two, keep away in aconstrained box, 10 by 10.
So a lot of times teams warm upwith just doing line drills and
(11:53):
that's great.
You're throwing and catching andyou're moving, but again, you're
no pressure.
There's no decision making.
If you want to work on movingthe ball and handling pressure,
if you just do a three on two,keep away in a constrained box
size.
And you can shrink or grow thebox depending on skills.
And so you set up five of thosewith your 25 players.
If you intercept like monkey inthe middle, you switch it out.
(12:15):
And so we just do a lot oflittle things like that.
We'll do, we have four, threeand a half or four by four
goals.
We'll set up games where if wewant to have the team move the
ball more quickly, we'll put ashot clock on.
If we want to make sure thatthey're just working on certain
angles or spacing.
We'll only allow the team to useone half of the field.
So we're constantly just puttingin new constraints.
(12:38):
And so, and to the point thatJamie mentioned about self
organizing, you don't have tomicromanage this.
You literally bring the kidstogether with four goals on the
field and say, we're playingthree on three.
And there's a 12 second shotclock, goalie counts it down,
go, and you just start withthat.
And it's pretty incredible howquickly those kids can get it
going, particularly when youkeep score, you make it
(13:00):
competitive and they love it andyou can control it and then you
can change as needed.
And it's been great.
I'm sure Jamie has more to addon that as well, but this, we've
been using it.
We do calls with Jamie, what,two or three times a week we put
practice plans together.
We review video it's, and it'sjust so great to see.
And then maybe Jamie can come inon this.
(13:21):
Do you put together like anoffense for these kids?
Let's say, like, how would theyget some of that free play
action going on in an actualgame?
How would that translate?
Well, all of the small sidedgames and drills like Neil said,
are relative to the principlesof the game anyways.
(13:43):
And so, Handling pressure.
He gave a three on two example.
Maybe they'll do a four on fouror five on five example where
there's double teams And they'renot and you have to make six
passes to be able to like winthe rep so That would simulate
exactly how you would be able tohandle pressure in a game And so
if you think about these littlethree on two games or three on
(14:04):
three games if we were to say,all right Well you guys you guys
have to and create offense offof this action, then they would
go do that and they would learnhow to do it.
And then we might be like, Hey,and by the way, the defense, you
guys have to, you can't switch.
No switch.
You have to go over.
In fact, you can't switch andyou have to go over the pick.
And then after a while, theybegin to learn the parts and
(14:26):
pieces of what offense lookslike.
And, and there's endless waysthat you can create smaller
sided situations where they getlots of touches.
They're getting the IQ in theskill together.
The perception and the actioncoupled together instead of
decoupling them, they'retogether.
And, and then in the end, Imean, we haven't really gotten
(14:46):
to the point where they're inseason yet, but when it comes to
being in season, they're goingto be able to do stuff relative
to the principles of play.
Well, so what is the principleof play of running an offense?
It's to, it's to, it's to createan advantage.
The whole point is to try tocreate an advantage, right?
So you can score a goal.
How do you create advantage offthe dodge?
Well, we'll teach you how tododge in lots of different ways
(15:07):
by doing.
15 different, different types ofone on ones.
Maybe an offer approach.
Maybe in a post op.
Maybe with the defenseoverplaying you.
Whatever it is.
Maybe with a pick.
We'll figure, another way to doit is off a two man game.
Another way to do it is off anoff ball two man game.
Another way is with ballmovement and spacing.
And by doing all of theseconstraints in these, in, in 2
(15:28):
on 2, maybe even 5 on 5, itbuilds up where the kids know
how to play.
Then you can do whatever youwant.
Anything will work.
But if they don't know how toplay, nothing works.
We transitioned to, uh, JML.
And let's do that.
We'll get into a little bit ofthe mindset.
We'll do a mindset minute
(15:49):
Well, today's message is all about
mindset in and around howcoaches coach, and how players
play.
Now, I really love what JamieMonroe has just said in terms of
teaching players at teampractices, the principles of
play, and helping themunderstand that the objective of
lacrosse is for players with theball to create an advantage.
(16:10):
It is the same whether we'retalking about the goalies and
the defenders clearing the ballor for offensive players going
to the goal.
So naturally what coaches can dois help players understand these
concepts, and there will be morediscussed later in this
interview and implement them inteam practices.
So they become natural in gamesituations and on the offensive
(16:31):
end, one standing thatadvantage, whether it's beating
your defender with the ball onyour stick, or getting open
while off ball by executing awell time cut, or by picking
your teammate's, defenders,defender, that is the principle
of play, would be geared towardseventually creating an advantage
that leads to a high qualityshot.
So here in Richmond, Virginia,there's something called the
(16:53):
Richmond Forum where peoplegathered to hear a national
leader speak about theirexperiences.
And what it was that led totheir success.
So a few weeks ago, I had theprivilege of listening to Coach
K of Duke.
I had some personal experiencewith Coach K and that my son
went to his basketball camp downin Durham back when my son was
(17:16):
10 and 11 years old.
So he'd gone for two years and Idon't think I realized it, but
back in the nineties, I was asemi Duke hater.
Why exactly.
I don't know.
Perhaps they seemed too perfect.
Their hair was always justright.
Their shirts well pressed andtheir collars, well, let's just
say they were always up, but asan OG, I realized that was
(17:39):
really just silly.
Coach K proved to me at his campthat he is a tremendous coach,
and as the saying goes, an evenbetter human being.
Because each and every day atthis camp, it started with
Czyzewski greeting all theplayers as he stood at the
cafeteria entrance at 7:00 AMshaking hands, and it didn't end
until he finished the evening'sfilm review with all the
(18:02):
campers, which would go on until10 or 11:00 PM.
And at those evening meetingsalong with the film review, he
would have a current and aformer player speak to the boys,
and most of the players would bethe rank and file, but at least
one superstar per session wouldappear of the likes of Elton
Brand or Bobby Hurley.
(18:25):
So for all that, he earned morethan earned my respect.
Because I can remember when Iwas in high school, I went to a
football camp, Joe Namathfootball camp, and Broadway, Joe
was only there for one day andhe literally flew in and out on
a helicopter and yes, thatreally happened.
I.
So during K Coach K's speech inRichmond, he told many
(18:46):
interesting stories from hiscareer and one that was among
the most interesting and onethat really pertains to exactly
what Coach Monroe is speaking ofis the story about a timeout
during a game.
While Shefsky was the head coachof Team USA basketball, at that
time, he had Kobe Bryant, LeBronJames, Dwayne Wade, and Jason
(19:07):
Kidd among other superstars onthat team and.
They were in a critical time atthe end of a close game, and
they needed a basket.
So Coach K called a timeout andstarted drawing up a play, and
then he felt Kobe Bryant's handon his hand, and Kobe said,
coach, we don't need a play.
You can trust us to do as youtaught us to do in practice, to
(19:30):
work together, take what thedefense gives us, and to take
the right shot for the team andteam USA went out there and did
just that.
Rest assured, I'm not saying ourlisteners who are primarily
coaches and players at themiddle school and high school
level need to be right there onpar with the dream team of Team
USA basketball.
(19:50):
But what I am saying is.
If coaches and players aregeared towards this style of
lacrosse that Coach Monroe istalking about, that utilizes the
powerful principles of play intheir daily approach to the
game, that it would become quitenatural to have players go out
in the final one to two minutesin a game and go into the flow
of one of their favoriteoffensive sets and come up with
(20:13):
the win by working together togain an advantage and generate a
really high quality opportunity.
And think about the confidencethat that would instill in these
players, and the teamwork,right?
And the working together,cooperation, communication, the
whole bag.
So interestingly, as I've beenwatching a large number of.
(20:34):
This season's D one lacrossegames.
I think that is what manycoaches are saying in their
timeouts at the end of games,because after those timeouts,
the offense doesn't appear to bedoing anything scripted.
They look like they're gettinginto the flow of their offense
and just letting it rip when thebest opportunity presents
itself.
And that's the way my coach atBrown Dom Staria rolled.
(20:55):
He would often say, don't go forthe first thing that shows go
for the first really good thingthat shows and we would just go
out and run our offense.
So some food for thought I.
And certainly something worthconsidering as the high school,
middle school and youth lacrosseseasons are gearing up.
Brace yourselves.
Here comes a little promo forthose who haven't heard our book
(21:17):
inside the recruiting Game,insights from College Coaches,
which contains top recruitingtips from all time greats, such
as Bill Tierney, Lars, Tiffany,and Dom.
Staria is available in paperbackand on Kindle and can be found
on Amazon.
Now.
We will return to our interviewand you will find that interview
in progress.
(21:37):
Hey Neil, I'm wondering, like,as you've you know, started to
build this 7 8 program, and yougot Jamie working with you, and
I can just sense in the bodylanguage how much fun you guys
are having doing it together.
Is there one thing, like, hasthere been one moment where
you're like, oh my god, whywasn't I Learning this way, you
know, if you can, you likeencapsulate some of those
(22:00):
moments you've had where I'mlike, you're like, God, this
just makes so much sense.
Why weren't we doing this?
Yeah.
I mean, I think the biggestlearning.
Is we all grew up in anenvironment of scripted place,
right?
If the defender does this, thenyou do that, pass it, cut
through, the guy pops.
And as soon as the wheels falloff the bus the first time,
(22:23):
everything falls apart.
And with this 7 8 team, we'veseen these kids, as Jamie just
mentioned, start to understandhow to create an advantage off a
one on one, how to set on andoff ball picks, and start to
create actions.
And it's kind of been thebiggest aha.
And the one that actually theguys love the most, and I've
seen the area where they'rereally starting to put it all
(22:43):
together is we'll play a game tofive and we'll do battleship
scoring.
And what that means is you gotto score off one off ball, pick,
you got to score at least one onan on ball pick.
You have to get a give and go,you have to get a quick stick.
And so all of a sudden they'restarting to put all these things
together.
And it's not just the same playbest Dodger against the worst.
(23:06):
defender every time.
And it's literally thecreativity that these kids are
displaying because we're nottelling everybody how to do it
because the little kid may do itdifferently from the big kid,
right?
The fast kid on the slow kid.
So everybody's starting tocreate and we're seeing these
brand new boys and girls whohave never played before all of
a sudden throwing a backbackhand pass on a slip because
(23:28):
they just know it's there.
And I wish, wish I had learnedin this style and I'll say, I
play with the kids all the time.
Just like Rob Hollis.
They may call me a hacker, bro,for all I know, it's like the
highlight of my week whenthey're like, we need another
one.
And I throw my helmet on andjump out there with them.
All right, Jamie.
(23:49):
Well, thanks so much for joiningus, man.
Awesome stuff.
It was so great being on thispodcast.
Thank you so much for having meand go Brown state.
Always fun.
How old are your kids?
So my son is now a ninth grader,so I'm actually going to coach
the high school team this year.
And I've been really luckybecause I've, you know, I
coached kindergarten.
8, I've done club in Oregon, nowSun Valley.
(24:13):
And my daughter started for acouple of years and she was
like, no, I'm not playing thatgame.
So, I mean, I guess that doeslead to, you know, the question
we were going to ask both of youguys, which obviously, you know,
you two talked about growing upas little kids playing the game.
You, you get to play with yourbrother and both high school and
(24:33):
college.
And now, you know, coaching yourson, as you said, kind of
through kindergarten and yourdaughter a little bit, and now
going to coach them in highschool.
Like what, what has this sportmeant to your family life, you
know, from, from your earliestdays now to where you're a
father.
(24:53):
Yeah.
I mean, as for both of you guys,it's the same, it's meant
everything, right.
The best friends in my life arefrom lacrosse.
A lot of them, we all playedwith together they're friends
with my wife and my family now,you know, we, we take vacations
and we see each other regularlyand then having it kind of being
passed down and able to giveback.
And we talked in openness withlike Wayne Curtis and Rob Hollis
(25:15):
and these great mentors, youknow, maybe someday a kid from
Sun Valley, Oregon, we'll talkabout Neil Monroe and it's just
so great though, to kind of pushdown the experiences that we've
had.
And know what this sport hasgiven to us.
And, you know, my wife grew upin the Bay area of California.
She didn't really even know whatlacrosse was.
And now she is on the sidelinewith her gear and cheering
(25:37):
really hard.
For my son, Mac and so excitedto see him just so committed and
playing the sport and loving itand having fun.
You know, it really meanseverything.
And I mean, no different fromany of us, I think that all
played together and have had theexperiences that we've had good
and bad.
It's probably one of the biggesthighlights of my life is
lacrosse and what it's done forme.
(25:59):
Awesome.
Beautiful.
That's awesome.
You guys, I, it's, I got tojump.
You got to jump.
All right.
Oh, my calls would be there at11, 10.
All right, Jamie.
Well, thanks so much for joiningus, man.
Awesome stuff.
It was so great being on thispodcast.
Thank you so much for having meand go Brown state.
Always fun.
All right, Neil.
And just as a follow up, youknow, we don't want you to get
(26:20):
too emotional here, but I'dimagine the game of lacrosse has
had a lot to do with yourlifelong relationship with your
brother, Jamie.
And just tell us the effect thatlax has had on your guys life.
And your relationship together.
Yeah.
I mean, you heard a lot about itwith our competitions when we
were younger.
Actually, it was more than justlacrosse.
It was a little bit ofeverything, but honestly, the
(26:41):
continued interaction andrelationship we have today,
lacrosse just creates thisconsistent thread.
It's a reason to check inwhether it's like, Hey, how did
your kids do?
You know, did, did Lucy win thisweekend against Boston college?
I saw Colgate had a big winagainst you Albany, you know?
So whether it's just a text or aquick note.
And then obviously working withhim with some Valley lacrosse
(27:01):
and jm three.
I mean, we have two to threezoom calls a week and you know,
we probably wouldn't have thatinteraction.
I think before I was reallyinvolved with coaching, you
know, we could go weeks withoutconnecting.
And so it's just an amazing kindof thread of consistency for the
relationship, continuing topush.
It's really fun.
And you guys mentioned Jamiethinks about lacrosse 24 seven.
(27:26):
If I want to know something isI'm thinking about, you know, I
got four years of high schoolcoaching in front of me.
I got this resource that I canpick up and talk to any time.
And he is all in, you know, he'slike, what do you think?
What about this?
And then he's sending me clipsand videos and it's just, it's
really fun to see and seeing hispassion.
You know, passion is hard.
(27:47):
To beat and you can see it withjamie and it's really cool and
inspiring Yeah, that's right.
My family sees it.
He coaches my son a little bitdoes some video calls with him,
which is pretty awesome That'sawesome.
Beautiful.
Love it.
And we got steve rosafi couldn'tbe here today, but he did send
us a few questions That wouldhave been awesome.
Yeah, well in his absence.
(28:09):
We do have his questions ifyou're game This is, this is
where the podcast takes a littledifferent turn.
As you can imagine with Steve,it's not, it's not a lot of
lacrosse strategy in thesequestions.
Neil, I just want to warn you alittle bit about spooky
Halloween music that I had tocarry around when I think of
Drosophila.
(28:32):
He used to walk through manholesand climb through sewers in
Providence, because that waspretty cool for him.
So yeah.
Let's see.
A roving reporter.
His first question was to you,Neil.
Tell us about the time you swamto Alcatraz.
Was there an issue with notwearing a wetsuit and getting a
bit of hypothermia?
And based on what you think theprisoners, based on that, what
(28:54):
do you think of the prisonerswho escaped from Alcatraz?
Do you think they could actuallysurvive that swim?
Is this a true story?
So you, you actually don't tryto swim to Alcatraz, Steve.
You try to swim from Alcatraz.
And I did it with my brother.
We actually, I've done itmultiple times, but I dragged
Jamie into it once.
(29:14):
You take a ferry out to the farside of Alcatraz.
I did wear a wetsuit for all butone of them.
You jump in and then you swimback and it's around a mile and
a half.
I think it took us, I don'tknow, 45 minutes, maybe we're
not the fastest swimmers, theMonroe brothers, maybe 50.
Quite an experience.
I did it without a wetsuit.
And I think that the, theescapees would have probably
(29:35):
froze to death and not been ingood enough shape would be my
answer to that question becauseit was cold.
I think the bay is like 55degrees.
I didn't have enough insulationwarmth on it.
My, my fat layers were prettylean back then.
Wow.
That's crazy.
So that's probably what got himthe coldness more than anything
else.
So I would think it's really thecurrents because, you know, they
(29:58):
also can control this.
They're like, we're going toswim at 805 in between the two.
Right.
And I don't think you have thatability to look at tide charts
and go during daylight.
Gotcha.
Excellent.
I mean, I could ask one just offthe cuff here.
I'm interested, is thereanything about Your college
experience as a good friend wasSam Jackson.
(30:20):
Maybe an interesting experiencethat is that would, would be
allowed to be aired on thispodcast.
Throw Towers in there too.
Oh, yeah.
Oh yeah.
With Tower, with Sam Jackson.
I mean, we, we've had plenty of,we've had plenty of towers
stories on this podcast, but youknow, Sam Jackson I think is a
little underrated in his abilityto be a part of mayhem.
(30:41):
It contributes mightily.
That's old Sam though.
I think Sam is such like just aquiet, humble guy now.
Right.
You guys have, I'm looking forold Sam here.
What do you think?
I'm not looking for Sam, theeducator who's really and works
with Harlem lacrosse.
I'm not looking for that, Sam.
You're looking for the otherSam.
(31:02):
Yeah.
Yeah, the other Sam you know,one of Sam's biggest challenges,
I think where Brown is that hehe took everything like a
hundred meter sprint and heprobably should have thought a
little bit more of the longgame.
And so he'd tend to come inthings pretty hard and sometimes
it would just impact his abilityto be able to maintain it
(31:26):
through, for example post gameparent parties, some other
things that you guys have seen,right?
You remember when Dom left himin Maryland?
Do you guys remember that?
Yeah.
So I think that was, he was alittle bit more in a sprint and
he probably should have justrecognized the situation and
(31:47):
thought a little more marathonapproach.
Instead of having Dom be inlike, close the door and go.
Well, you know, your brother hada little bit of a different
approach to road trips.
I remember I was a freshman, myfirst, our first game, Jay, at,
at the U S military academy and.
Your brother, like, picks up hisgear from the locker room,
(32:10):
doesn't have any other bag oranything, he's like wearing a
Hawaiian shirt, and he had atoothbrush, yeah, he had a
toothbrush, and I'm like, okay,alright, I guess a change of
underwear for Brown Lacrosse isoptional for a sleepover.
Who wears underwear?
Yeah.
(32:31):
Jamie was working Dom's camp atPomfret and I remember Dom was
so disappointed because Jamiedidn't bring shoes for a five
day camp and he'd have to waitoutside the cafeteria because he
wasn't allowed in until someonecame out with a pair of flip
flops or shoes that he couldborrow.
I was like, you're going to be asenior captain.
(32:52):
Oh my gosh.
That is beautiful.
That's the OG.
That is.
Yep.
We've got a question from theHonorable Andrew Towers.
Oh boy.
He says to ask them about theirunique prep for the preseason 4.
2 mile run and how that may haveinvolved and the taco maker.
What is that all about?
The unique prep.
The unique prep was just thefuel that you guys heard us talk
(33:15):
about as both Jamie and I wantedto win that.
And particularly, I think Andy'sreferencing that freshman year,
I went to bed early the nightbefore the 4 2.
My brother being a senior didnot, and so he was hurting so
bad and I knew it coming upangel.
So I just put the hammer down onhim because he was based at that
(33:36):
point.
Yeah.
And you know, as I got older, Itook a little bit more of
Jamie's approach to prepping forthe four two, but freshman year
I was like, I am going to makemy mark and beat my older
brother on it.
So, but I mean, you know, we allhad our, Misery on that four,
two run.
It was you you're saying last aslong as most of ours though.
(33:56):
Yeah, I was gonna say some hadmore misery than others.
My, my, my body type was notnever considered the opportunity
of winning the 4.2 that wasnever really entered into my
consciousness.
I remember them being done inlike 20 minutes and I'm like,
how is that possible?
They're like, it's just a sixminute mile.
Well, Sean Lindsay won.
(34:16):
A couple of those guys were sofast.
I was definitely off the back ofall of them.
Yes, sprinting.
But there's their approach, andit was a home court for the
Monroe bros, so we couldpractice it over Christmas.
I ran that thing freshman yearover holiday break.
Oh man, Ron and I were jogging,not sprinting, that's for sure.
Yeah, no, I was going for theAnd again, I had to try to find
(34:37):
a way on the field guys.
Yeah.
Your brother, you had to be yourbrother and be my brother.
Tired of that beautiful.
Well, thanks so much, Neil.
This has just been phenomenal toconnect.
Yeah.
All right, boys.
All right, guys.
Take care.
Until we meet again.
Here's to hoping you find thetwine.
(34:57):
We're signing off here at theget the lax scoop.
Thanks again so much.
We will see you the next time.
It's time for Get the LackScoop, a podcast bringing you
all the people and stuff youshould know in the game of
lacrosse.
We take lack seriously, butourselves, not so much.
Join host Big Dog and Jaybirdand the biggest names in the
game brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training.
(00:23):
Ron Doglish, the big dog, was acollegiate football and lacrosse
player at Brown.
He was also an assistantlacrosse coach and the executive
director of the SportsFoundation.
And Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, athree time All American
midfielder at Brown.
He was the captain of the U.
S.
Junior National Team and is thefounder of JML.
(00:43):
And Joining us in the studio,Steve Grisolfi, who's collegiate
lacrosse career statisticsequals one goal against
Dartmouth brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training, helping the
next generation of lacrosseplayers get to the next level.
Hello, everyone, and welcome tothe Get the Lack Scoop podcast.
(01:03):
Today, we are sharing our threepart interview series with Brown
Athletic Hall of Famers andbrothers, Jamie and Neil Monroe.
If you have not listened to partone, We highly recommend you go
back and do so.
As it ties in beautifully towhat we discussed going forward,
you will find this interview inprogress.
So Jamie, I wanted to follow upwith that conversation about the
(01:26):
way your own thinking hasevolved around skills and.
You know, we got a lot ofparents and kids who are in that
middle school, high schoolrange, kind of the wheelhouse of
kids you've worked with foreverto try to develop their games.
And so, you know, can you talkabout, and I know I've talked
(01:46):
with you about, you know, the,the way you think about.
For instance, all thesetournaments and everything has
value, but you go to thesetournaments and the number of
touches a kid might get in awhole weekend, you know, versus,
you know, some of theinteractive online training that
you're doing and the way.
that kid can really developtheir skills or that kind of one
(02:09):
on one skills training that Iknow my friend Jay does live
with players.
So can you talk about what rolethey each have to play in a
player's development, smallsided games, which I know you
also are a huge proponent of.
So talk about what do you tellmiddle school and high school
players to do today who reallywant to develop their skills?
(02:31):
Yeah, the biggest thing you guysis that that I would love
parents to sort of reallyconsider is that the the
traditional the traditionalcoaching model is that you will
Master techniques and you'llrehearse them and practice them
and master them thesefundamentals And with the idea
(02:52):
that you will be able to deploythem in a game at the right time
and that is from And when skillacquisition became a thing in
the 1960s, there was aninformation processing theory,
and that's where this comes fromwhich said that we perceive our
surroundings, we make a choice,like a Terminator, like you have
like all these choices to choosefrom, pick your skill, you do
(03:15):
it, and then you make a decisionto do something, and this, this
contemporary skill acquisitiontheory that I, that I referenced
a minute ago called ecologicaldynamics is ecological dynamics.
This is like being studied allover the world, not so much on
lacrosse, but in, in, in, in, intons of different ways, not just
(03:35):
sports.
You can get a PhD in ecologicaldynamics.
Okay.
But what it says is we perceiveour surroundings and we act
instantaneously and we selforganize.
And so what this means iseverything we're doing all this
is not just in sports.
This is all day long.
We perceive our surroundings ashuman beings.
It explains human movement.
We perceive our surroundings.
And we act instantaneously andwe self organize self organized
(03:59):
part means it's different everytime.
It's never the same.
There is no one technique.
There's no one way to doanything because there's no two
situations that occur exactlythe same.
And it's all about perception.
So when you think about thewords lacrosse IQ.
What does that mean?
Lacrosse IQ means a smartplayer, right?
Lacrosse IQ basically is yourdecision making paired with your
(04:20):
skills.
So for parents the mostimportant thing that your kids
can do is find coaches that aregoing to do stuff with them that
are live One on O's don't makeyou better because there's no
decision making.
There's no lacrosse IQ.
Does it mean it's a total wasteof time to ever work on stick
(04:42):
work?
No, but you're not actuallygetting better at the game.
And so there's just not enoughtime to spend a lot of time when
you're not actually gettingbetter at the game itself.
So just being in a one on onewhere you get to dodge a
defender is going to be lightyears better than dodging a
cone.
You show me a technique of aperfect technique, I'll put a
defender on that player, thattechnique will not happen that
way.
(05:02):
It just doesn't and so it's backto the whole free play thing.
It's kind of how we all grew upplaying sports And which is kind
of what's brought me back to allof this is that the way we grew
up playing was just we playedand sure Neil referenced that I
would do wall ball if I didn'thave somebody to play with, but
I would automatically go playwith somebody you ask about that
competitiveness.
It probably stems from that.
(05:23):
We just played.
And so the bottom line forparents is club is a fun
experience.
You need to play the full fieldgame.
You would like to be have somelevel of fun.
Yeah.
Of of of a good experience goodcompetition Don't depend on your
club to develop you Becausebecause there's just not enough
(05:43):
time and and also like you talkabout touches You know, you
might literally, you know yourparents you've seen it count
count your son's touches in thegame You might get 15 of them in
a game but but also not alltouches are created equal so you
can get thousands of touches onthe wall But then there's no
decision making so we got tofind this balance of context Of
(06:04):
offense and defense and decisionmaking in situations that are
that are small slices of thegame and reps That's why these
small sided games are so good.
It's why box lacrosse playershave gotten so good It's a
smaller sided game that has adifferent constraints that allow
these players to learn thesesmaller situations that
(06:26):
translate beautifully to thefull field game, so Dive into go
to the ecological lacrossepodcast that I've been doing
lately if you want to learn moreabout it start digging into this
It's a total game changer, andunfortunately, hardly anybody
does it.
MacBook Pro Microphone & (06:43):
Yeah, I mean, I, I agree a hundred
percent there, Jamie, but, youknow, working on your skills so
that you can pass, catch, shootand move your feet effectively
is something that every player,you know, must get the reps on
before, you know, in betweenpracticing, playing with other
players, you know, otherwise, aplayer simply doesn't have the
skills they need to be able tonot only compete, but to enjoy
(07:06):
competing.
Enjoy the game.
So when I train players, whetherit's in person or online, we go
through this method of howthey'll approach incorporating
what they've learned inone-on-one or small group
sessions into team practices andgames or, and even free play
situations.
So it goes like this, like theywould have a plan of what
they're gonna do, whether it's amove or a cut or what have you,
(07:29):
and then they'd evaluate rightthen and there, you know, and
this is for something new thatthey haven't tried before.
But they'd evaluate then andthere how they did, and then
make any needed adjustments thenext time they go at it.
So until, you know, I tell themuntil they get that real
experience of how this move, orlet's say this release point on
a shot is going to work in realtime in a real situation,
(07:51):
they're not gonna really knowhow it works.
So I think everyone would agreethat players need both types of
play.
And as far as wall ball, I mean,I think every player should use.
Wall ball the same way and that,you know, they need to get their
technical skills better so thatway players aren't showing up at
practice, let's say, with aterrible offhand, you know,
their non-dominant hand, forexample, and that they shouldn't
(08:13):
be coming to practice to try towork on catching and throwing
with their offhand for the veryfirst time in a team practice.
Because, you know, thatsituation is just kind of like
a, a drill kill situation, youknow?
Yeah, and as I said, Jay, Idon't think Jamie ever thinks
about this stuff, really.
He just kind of does shit, andhe doesn't really put any
thought into it, you know.
Self organization, dog.
(08:35):
Yeah, I gotta, I'm very selforganized.
I mean, yeah, is that, I gotta,I gotta rethink everything, Jay.
I gotta rethink everything.
I don't know what the hell I'mdoing.
Your perception, Ron.
Organize yourself.
Let's go.
Get with it.
Now, Neil, you've been coachingsome youth lacrosse yourself in
your area out in Sun Valley.
Out and with Sun Valleylacrosse, rather out in Idaho,
(08:56):
and I saw that you're workingwith seventh and eighth graders.
And I think that is just a greatage group where they can really
start doing stuff.
And if kids are taught the rightway and taught to dream big,
they can really start reallyaccomplishing some things out on
the field.
So tell us, you know, what yourexperience has been like and and
what your approach has been withthese young guys.
Yeah.
So last year, my son's a now aninth grader, but I coached the
(09:20):
seven, eight team.
And we actually worked withJamie and jam three to start to
put some of his strategies intoplace and it was an incredible
experience.
We have such raw athletes out inthis valley.
You just think about them in themountain sport environment.
I think every kid on our teamcould probably do a backflip on
skis, you know, they wheelinginto practice on their mountain
(09:43):
bikes, but they just haven't hada really good structure.
Or commitment to lacrosse.
And so there's a few parents, aguy played at Yale, one who
played a little bit atMiddlebury, and we've been
committed to try to make adifference.
And so really trying to make itmore part of their every day.
So making it part of the cultureout here and not just kind of
the fourth or fifth sport, wetry to make it really fun.
(10:06):
Try to make it competitive.
I mean, you heard Jamie and Italking about everything was a
competition.
Kids love it.
Boys, girls, young and old.
If you play for a competition,they want to win and they'll try
harder.
We also leave them wanting alittle bit more so that they
want to come back because it wasso good.
And so it's been this approachthat we started to implement
last year.
(10:27):
I've been coaching over the lastsix months, actually all ages
and all, both genders to reallytry to bring lacrosse to this
Valley.
We have some goals that we'veput forth that we want to be the
best in the state.
It's a small, big state, smalllacrosse state.
And we're starting to do it andit's been an incredible journey
so far.
We've seen kids who have neverplayed the game before.
(10:51):
Improved dramatically just in afew months through touches in
the right situation is Jamiehighlighted earlier through
putting them in situations wherethey can use the skills that
they've acquired to makedecisions and learn how to
problem solve.
And it's been amazing and it isso much fun.
We go three times a week, twotimes a week, depending on the
groups.
(11:11):
And it's really starting tobecome part of this Valley and
we have big goals to go further.
That's awesome.
Now, if you're setting up thiskind of smaller sided situation
so the kids can get moretouches, you know, you're out on
a field, you know, we've got alot of coaches who listen to the
podcast and parents and kids.
So how would they set that up?
Like, tell us the setupbasically.
(11:32):
Yeah, I mean, depending on whatwe're trying to do, if you look
at, you kind of groundeverything at a principle of
play, right?
So if you want to basically justhave something around handling
pressure.
You could start off by breakinginto groups of five and do a
three on two, keep away in aconstrained box, 10 by 10.
So a lot of times teams warm upwith just doing line drills and
(11:53):
that's great.
You're throwing and catching andyou're moving, but again, you're
no pressure.
There's no decision making.
If you want to work on movingthe ball and handling pressure,
if you just do a three on two,keep away in a constrained box
size.
And you can shrink or grow thebox depending on skills.
And so you set up five of thosewith your 25 players.
If you intercept like monkey inthe middle, you switch it out.
(12:15):
And so we just do a lot oflittle things like that.
We'll do, we have four, threeand a half or four by four
goals.
We'll set up games where if wewant to have the team move the
ball more quickly, we'll put ashot clock on.
If we want to make sure thatthey're just working on certain
angles or spacing.
We'll only allow the team to useone half of the field.
So we're constantly just puttingin new constraints.
(12:38):
And so, and to the point thatJamie mentioned about self
organizing, you don't have tomicromanage this.
You literally bring the kidstogether with four goals on the
field and say, we're playingthree on three.
And there's a 12 second shotclock, goalie counts it down,
go, and you just start withthat.
And it's pretty incredible howquickly those kids can get it
going, particularly when youkeep score, you make it
(13:00):
competitive and they love it andyou can control it and then you
can change as needed.
And it's been great.
I'm sure Jamie has more to addon that as well, but this, we've
been using it.
We do calls with Jamie, what,two or three times a week we put
practice plans together.
We review video it's, and it'sjust so great to see.
And then maybe Jamie can come inon this.
(13:21):
Do you put together like anoffense for these kids?
Let's say, like, how would theyget some of that free play
action going on in an actualgame?
How would that translate?
Well, all of the small sidedgames and drills like Neil said,
are relative to the principlesof the game anyways.
(13:43):
And so, Handling pressure.
He gave a three on two example.
Maybe they'll do a four on fouror five on five example where
there's double teams And they'renot and you have to make six
passes to be able to like winthe rep so That would simulate
exactly how you would be able tohandle pressure in a game And so
if you think about these littlethree on two games or three on
(14:04):
three games if we were to say,all right Well you guys you guys
have to and create offense offof this action, then they would
go do that and they would learnhow to do it.
And then we might be like, Hey,and by the way, the defense, you
guys have to, you can't switch.
No switch.
You have to go over.
In fact, you can't switch andyou have to go over the pick.
And then after a while, theybegin to learn the parts and
(14:26):
pieces of what offense lookslike.
And, and there's endless waysthat you can create smaller
sided situations where they getlots of touches.
They're getting the IQ in theskill together.
The perception and the actioncoupled together instead of
decoupling them, they'retogether.
And, and then in the end, Imean, we haven't really gotten
(14:46):
to the point where they're inseason yet, but when it comes to
being in season, they're goingto be able to do stuff relative
to the principles of play.
Well, so what is the principleof play of running an offense?
It's to, it's to, it's to createan advantage.
The whole point is to try tocreate an advantage, right?
So you can score a goal.
How do you create advantage offthe dodge?
Well, we'll teach you how tododge in lots of different ways
(15:07):
by doing.
15 different, different types ofone on ones.
Maybe an offer approach.
Maybe in a post op.
Maybe with the defenseoverplaying you.
Whatever it is.
Maybe with a pick.
We'll figure, another way to doit is off a two man game.
Another way to do it is off anoff ball two man game.
Another way is with ballmovement and spacing.
And by doing all of theseconstraints in these, in, in 2
(15:28):
on 2, maybe even 5 on 5, itbuilds up where the kids know
how to play.
Then you can do whatever youwant.
Anything will work.
But if they don't know how toplay, nothing works.
We transitioned to, uh, JML.
And let's do that.
We'll get into a little bit ofthe mindset.
We'll do a mindset minute
(15:49):
Well, today's message is all about
mindset in and around howcoaches coach, and how players
play.
Now, I really love what JamieMonroe has just said in terms of
teaching players at teampractices, the principles of
play, and helping themunderstand that the objective of
lacrosse is for players with theball to create an advantage.
(16:10):
It is the same whether we'retalking about the goalies and
the defenders clearing the ballor for offensive players going
to the goal.
So naturally what coaches can dois help players understand these
concepts, and there will be morediscussed later in this
interview and implement them inteam practices.
So they become natural in gamesituations and on the offensive
(16:31):
end, one standing thatadvantage, whether it's beating
your defender with the ball onyour stick, or getting open
while off ball by executing awell time cut, or by picking
your teammate's, defenders,defender, that is the principle
of play, would be geared towardseventually creating an advantage
that leads to a high qualityshot.
So here in Richmond, Virginia,there's something called the
(16:53):
Richmond Forum where peoplegathered to hear a national
leader speak about theirexperiences.
And what it was that led totheir success.
So a few weeks ago, I had theprivilege of listening to Coach
K of Duke.
I had some personal experiencewith Coach K and that my son
went to his basketball camp downin Durham back when my son was
(17:16):
10 and 11 years old.
So he'd gone for two years and Idon't think I realized it, but
back in the nineties, I was asemi Duke hater.
Why exactly.
I don't know.
Perhaps they seemed too perfect.
Their hair was always justright.
Their shirts well pressed andtheir collars, well, let's just
say they were always up, but asan OG, I realized that was
(17:39):
really just silly.
Coach K proved to me at his campthat he is a tremendous coach,
and as the saying goes, an evenbetter human being.
Because each and every day atthis camp, it started with
Czyzewski greeting all theplayers as he stood at the
cafeteria entrance at 7:00 AMshaking hands, and it didn't end
until he finished the evening'sfilm review with all the
(18:02):
campers, which would go on until10 or 11:00 PM.
And at those evening meetingsalong with the film review, he
would have a current and aformer player speak to the boys,
and most of the players would bethe rank and file, but at least
one superstar per session wouldappear of the likes of Elton
Brand or Bobby Hurley.
(18:25):
So for all that, he earned morethan earned my respect.
Because I can remember when Iwas in high school, I went to a
football camp, Joe Namathfootball camp, and Broadway, Joe
was only there for one day andhe literally flew in and out on
a helicopter and yes, thatreally happened.
I.
So during K Coach K's speech inRichmond, he told many
(18:46):
interesting stories from hiscareer and one that was among
the most interesting and onethat really pertains to exactly
what Coach Monroe is speaking ofis the story about a timeout
during a game.
While Shefsky was the head coachof Team USA basketball, at that
time, he had Kobe Bryant, LeBronJames, Dwayne Wade, and Jason
(19:07):
Kidd among other superstars onthat team and.
They were in a critical time atthe end of a close game, and
they needed a basket.
So Coach K called a timeout andstarted drawing up a play, and
then he felt Kobe Bryant's handon his hand, and Kobe said,
coach, we don't need a play.
You can trust us to do as youtaught us to do in practice, to
(19:30):
work together, take what thedefense gives us, and to take
the right shot for the team andteam USA went out there and did
just that.
Rest assured, I'm not saying ourlisteners who are primarily
coaches and players at themiddle school and high school
level need to be right there onpar with the dream team of Team
USA basketball.
(19:50):
But what I am saying is.
If coaches and players aregeared towards this style of
lacrosse that Coach Monroe istalking about, that utilizes the
powerful principles of play intheir daily approach to the
game, that it would become quitenatural to have players go out
in the final one to two minutesin a game and go into the flow
of one of their favoriteoffensive sets and come up with
(20:13):
the win by working together togain an advantage and generate a
really high quality opportunity.
And think about the confidencethat that would instill in these
players, and the teamwork,right?
And the working together,cooperation, communication, the
whole bag.
So interestingly, as I've beenwatching a large number of.
(20:34):
This season's D one lacrossegames.
I think that is what manycoaches are saying in their
timeouts at the end of games,because after those timeouts,
the offense doesn't appear to bedoing anything scripted.
They look like they're gettinginto the flow of their offense
and just letting it rip when thebest opportunity presents
itself.
And that's the way my coach atBrown Dom Staria rolled.
(20:55):
He would often say, don't go forthe first thing that shows go
for the first really good thingthat shows and we would just go
out and run our offense.
So some food for thought I.
And certainly something worthconsidering as the high school,
middle school and youth lacrosseseasons are gearing up.
Brace yourselves.
Here comes a little promo forthose who haven't heard our book
(21:17):
inside the recruiting Game,insights from College Coaches,
which contains top recruitingtips from all time greats, such
as Bill Tierney, Lars, Tiffany,and Dom.
Staria is available in paperbackand on Kindle and can be found
on Amazon.
Now.
We will return to our interviewand you will find that interview
in progress.
(21:37):
Hey Neil, I'm wondering, like,as you've you know, started to
build this 7 8 program, and yougot Jamie working with you, and
I can just sense in the bodylanguage how much fun you guys
are having doing it together.
Is there one thing, like, hasthere been one moment where
you're like, oh my god, whywasn't I Learning this way, you
know, if you can, you likeencapsulate some of those
(22:00):
moments you've had where I'mlike, you're like, God, this
just makes so much sense.
Why weren't we doing this?
Yeah.
I mean, I think the biggestlearning.
Is we all grew up in anenvironment of scripted place,
right?
If the defender does this, thenyou do that, pass it, cut
through, the guy pops.
And as soon as the wheels falloff the bus the first time,
(22:23):
everything falls apart.
And with this 7 8 team, we'veseen these kids, as Jamie just
mentioned, start to understandhow to create an advantage off a
one on one, how to set on andoff ball picks, and start to
create actions.
And it's kind of been thebiggest aha.
And the one that actually theguys love the most, and I've
seen the area where they'rereally starting to put it all
(22:43):
together is we'll play a game tofive and we'll do battleship
scoring.
And what that means is you gotto score off one off ball, pick,
you got to score at least one onan on ball pick.
You have to get a give and go,you have to get a quick stick.
And so all of a sudden they'restarting to put all these things
together.
And it's not just the same playbest Dodger against the worst.
(23:06):
defender every time.
And it's literally thecreativity that these kids are
displaying because we're nottelling everybody how to do it
because the little kid may do itdifferently from the big kid,
right?
The fast kid on the slow kid.
So everybody's starting tocreate and we're seeing these
brand new boys and girls whohave never played before all of
a sudden throwing a backbackhand pass on a slip because
(23:28):
they just know it's there.
And I wish, wish I had learnedin this style and I'll say, I
play with the kids all the time.
Just like Rob Hollis.
They may call me a hacker, bro,for all I know, it's like the
highlight of my week whenthey're like, we need another
one.
And I throw my helmet on andjump out there with them.
All right, Jamie.
(23:49):
Well, thanks so much for joiningus, man.
Awesome stuff.
It was so great being on thispodcast.
Thank you so much for having meand go Brown state.
Always fun.
How old are your kids?
So my son is now a ninth grader,so I'm actually going to coach
the high school team this year.
And I've been really luckybecause I've, you know, I
coached kindergarten.
8, I've done club in Oregon, nowSun Valley.
(24:13):
And my daughter started for acouple of years and she was
like, no, I'm not playing thatgame.
So, I mean, I guess that doeslead to, you know, the question
we were going to ask both of youguys, which obviously, you know,
you two talked about growing upas little kids playing the game.
You, you get to play with yourbrother and both high school and
(24:33):
college.
And now, you know, coaching yourson, as you said, kind of
through kindergarten and yourdaughter a little bit, and now
going to coach them in highschool.
Like what, what has this sportmeant to your family life, you
know, from, from your earliestdays now to where you're a
father.
(24:53):
Yeah.
I mean, as for both of you guys,it's the same, it's meant
everything, right.
The best friends in my life arefrom lacrosse.
A lot of them, we all playedwith together they're friends
with my wife and my family now,you know, we, we take vacations
and we see each other regularlyand then having it kind of being
passed down and able to giveback.
And we talked in openness withlike Wayne Curtis and Rob Hollis
(25:15):
and these great mentors, youknow, maybe someday a kid from
Sun Valley, Oregon, we'll talkabout Neil Monroe and it's just
so great though, to kind of pushdown the experiences that we've
had.
And know what this sport hasgiven to us.
And, you know, my wife grew upin the Bay area of California.
She didn't really even know whatlacrosse was.
And now she is on the sidelinewith her gear and cheering
(25:37):
really hard.
For my son, Mac and so excitedto see him just so committed and
playing the sport and loving itand having fun.
You know, it really meanseverything.
And I mean, no different fromany of us, I think that all
played together and have had theexperiences that we've had good
and bad.
It's probably one of the biggesthighlights of my life is
lacrosse and what it's done forme.
(25:59):
Awesome.
Beautiful.
That's awesome.
You guys, I, it's, I got tojump.
You got to jump.
All right.
Oh, my calls would be there at11, 10.
All right, Jamie.
Well, thanks so much for joiningus, man.
Awesome stuff.
It was so great being on thispodcast.
Thank you so much for having meand go Brown state.
Always fun.
All right, Neil.
And just as a follow up, youknow, we don't want you to get
(26:20):
too emotional here, but I'dimagine the game of lacrosse has
had a lot to do with yourlifelong relationship with your
brother, Jamie.
And just tell us the effect thatlax has had on your guys life.
And your relationship together.
Yeah.
I mean, you heard a lot about itwith our competitions when we
were younger.
Actually, it was more than justlacrosse.
It was a little bit ofeverything, but honestly, the
(26:41):
continued interaction andrelationship we have today,
lacrosse just creates thisconsistent thread.
It's a reason to check inwhether it's like, Hey, how did
your kids do?
You know, did, did Lucy win thisweekend against Boston college?
I saw Colgate had a big winagainst you Albany, you know?
So whether it's just a text or aquick note.
And then obviously working withhim with some Valley lacrosse
(27:01):
and jm three.
I mean, we have two to threezoom calls a week and you know,
we probably wouldn't have thatinteraction.
I think before I was reallyinvolved with coaching, you
know, we could go weeks withoutconnecting.
And so it's just an amazing kindof thread of consistency for the
relationship, continuing topush.
It's really fun.
And you guys mentioned Jamiethinks about lacrosse 24 seven.
(27:26):
If I want to know something isI'm thinking about, you know, I
got four years of high schoolcoaching in front of me.
I got this resource that I canpick up and talk to any time.
And he is all in, you know, he'slike, what do you think?
What about this?
And then he's sending me clipsand videos and it's just, it's
really fun to see and seeing hispassion.
You know, passion is hard.
(27:47):
To beat and you can see it withjamie and it's really cool and
inspiring Yeah, that's right.
My family sees it.
He coaches my son a little bitdoes some video calls with him,
which is pretty awesome That'sawesome.
Beautiful.
Love it.
And we got steve rosafi couldn'tbe here today, but he did send
us a few questions That wouldhave been awesome.
Yeah, well in his absence.
(28:09):
We do have his questions ifyou're game This is, this is
where the podcast takes a littledifferent turn.
As you can imagine with Steve,it's not, it's not a lot of
lacrosse strategy in thesequestions.
Neil, I just want to warn you alittle bit about spooky
Halloween music that I had tocarry around when I think of
Drosophila.
(28:32):
He used to walk through manholesand climb through sewers in
Providence, because that waspretty cool for him.
So yeah.
Let's see.
A roving reporter.
His first question was to you,Neil.
Tell us about the time you swamto Alcatraz.
Was there an issue with notwearing a wetsuit and getting a
bit of hypothermia?
And based on what you think theprisoners, based on that, what
(28:54):
do you think of the prisonerswho escaped from Alcatraz?
Do you think they could actuallysurvive that swim?
Is this a true story?
So you, you actually don't tryto swim to Alcatraz, Steve.
You try to swim from Alcatraz.
And I did it with my brother.
We actually, I've done itmultiple times, but I dragged
Jamie into it once.
(29:14):
You take a ferry out to the farside of Alcatraz.
I did wear a wetsuit for all butone of them.
You jump in and then you swimback and it's around a mile and
a half.
I think it took us, I don'tknow, 45 minutes, maybe we're
not the fastest swimmers, theMonroe brothers, maybe 50.
Quite an experience.
I did it without a wetsuit.
And I think that the, theescapees would have probably
(29:35):
froze to death and not been ingood enough shape would be my
answer to that question becauseit was cold.
I think the bay is like 55degrees.
I didn't have enough insulationwarmth on it.
My, my fat layers were prettylean back then.
Wow.
That's crazy.
So that's probably what got himthe coldness more than anything
else.
So I would think it's really thecurrents because, you know, they
(29:58):
also can control this.
They're like, we're going toswim at 805 in between the two.
Right.
And I don't think you have thatability to look at tide charts
and go during daylight.
Gotcha.
Excellent.
I mean, I could ask one just offthe cuff here.
I'm interested, is thereanything about Your college
experience as a good friend wasSam Jackson.
(30:20):
Maybe an interesting experiencethat is that would, would be
allowed to be aired on thispodcast.
Throw Towers in there too.
Oh, yeah.
Oh yeah.
With Tower, with Sam Jackson.
I mean, we, we've had plenty of,we've had plenty of towers
stories on this podcast, but youknow, Sam Jackson I think is a
little underrated in his abilityto be a part of mayhem.
(30:41):
It contributes mightily.
That's old Sam though.
I think Sam is such like just aquiet, humble guy now.
Right.
You guys have, I'm looking forold Sam here.
What do you think?
I'm not looking for Sam, theeducator who's really and works
with Harlem lacrosse.
I'm not looking for that, Sam.
You're looking for the otherSam.
(31:02):
Yeah.
Yeah, the other Sam you know,one of Sam's biggest challenges,
I think where Brown is that hehe took everything like a
hundred meter sprint and heprobably should have thought a
little bit more of the longgame.
And so he'd tend to come inthings pretty hard and sometimes
it would just impact his abilityto be able to maintain it
(31:26):
through, for example post gameparent parties, some other
things that you guys have seen,right?
You remember when Dom left himin Maryland?
Do you guys remember that?
Yeah.
So I think that was, he was alittle bit more in a sprint and
he probably should have justrecognized the situation and
(31:47):
thought a little more marathonapproach.
Instead of having Dom be inlike, close the door and go.
Well, you know, your brother hada little bit of a different
approach to road trips.
I remember I was a freshman, myfirst, our first game, Jay, at,
at the U S military academy and.
Your brother, like, picks up hisgear from the locker room,
(32:10):
doesn't have any other bag oranything, he's like wearing a
Hawaiian shirt, and he had atoothbrush, yeah, he had a
toothbrush, and I'm like, okay,alright, I guess a change of
underwear for Brown Lacrosse isoptional for a sleepover.
Who wears underwear?
Yeah.
(32:31):
Jamie was working Dom's camp atPomfret and I remember Dom was
so disappointed because Jamiedidn't bring shoes for a five
day camp and he'd have to waitoutside the cafeteria because he
wasn't allowed in until someonecame out with a pair of flip
flops or shoes that he couldborrow.
I was like, you're going to be asenior captain.
(32:52):
Oh my gosh.
That is beautiful.
That's the OG.
That is.
Yep.
We've got a question from theHonorable Andrew Towers.
Oh boy.
He says to ask them about theirunique prep for the preseason 4.
2 mile run and how that may haveinvolved and the taco maker.
What is that all about?
The unique prep.
The unique prep was just thefuel that you guys heard us talk
(33:15):
about as both Jamie and I wantedto win that.
And particularly, I think Andy'sreferencing that freshman year,
I went to bed early the nightbefore the 4 2.
My brother being a senior didnot, and so he was hurting so
bad and I knew it coming upangel.
So I just put the hammer down onhim because he was based at that
(33:36):
point.
Yeah.
And you know, as I got older, Itook a little bit more of
Jamie's approach to prepping forthe four two, but freshman year
I was like, I am going to makemy mark and beat my older
brother on it.
So, but I mean, you know, we allhad our, Misery on that four,
two run.
It was you you're saying last aslong as most of ours though.
(33:56):
Yeah, I was gonna say some hadmore misery than others.
My, my, my body type was notnever considered the opportunity
of winning the 4.2 that wasnever really entered into my
consciousness.
I remember them being done inlike 20 minutes and I'm like,
how is that possible?
They're like, it's just a sixminute mile.
Well, Sean Lindsay won.
(34:16):
A couple of those guys were sofast.
I was definitely off the back ofall of them.
Yes, sprinting.
But there's their approach, andit was a home court for the
Monroe bros, so we couldpractice it over Christmas.
I ran that thing freshman yearover holiday break.
Oh man, Ron and I were jogging,not sprinting, that's for sure.
Yeah, no, I was going for theAnd again, I had to try to find
(34:37):
a way on the field guys.
Yeah.
Your brother, you had to be yourbrother and be my brother.
Tired of that beautiful.
Well, thanks so much, Neil.
This has just been phenomenal toconnect.
Yeah.
All right, boys.
All right, guys.
Take care.
Until we meet again.
Here's to hoping you find thetwine.
(34:57):
We're signing off here at theget the lax scoop.
Thanks again so much.
We will see you the next time.
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