March 12, 2025 • 46 mins
In this episode of 'Get the LAX Scoop,' hosts Big Dog (Ron Doglish) and Jaybird (Jay McMahon) are joined by Nick Tintle, a former standout lacrosse player who shares his journey from early struggles to collegiate success. Tintle, a two-time All-American midfielder at UNC, details his path, including the challenges he faced with team culture, his leadership evolution, and a defining moment during the Empire State games. After UNC, Tintle experienced personal hardships, leading him to move to California where he rediscovered his passion for lacrosse and began a career in strength and conditioning. Now, as the founder of Lacrosse Barn in Dallas, he imparts his hard-won wisdom to the next generation of athletes. The episode explores themes of adversity, leadership, and the importance of focusing on the process over outcomes.
00:00 Introduction to Get the LAX Scoop
00:23 Meet the Hosts: Big Dog and Jaybird
00:43 Special Guest: Steve Grisolfi
00:59 Lacrosse Season Update
02:02 Guest Introduction: Nick Tel
04:45 Nick’s Early Lacrosse Journey
08:22 Influential Figures in Nick's Career
11:42 High School Challenges and Triumphs
15:44 Recruitment and College Decision
22:13 Reflecting on Carolina Lacrosse Experience
24:11 Lessons in Leadership
27:47 Mindset Minute: Process Over Outcome
33:48 Overcoming Adversity: Post-Carolina Journey
41:05 Finding Purpose in California
45:04 Full Circle: Returning to Lacrosse
46:19 Conclusion and Teaser for Next Episode
NEW BOOK!
Inside the Recruiting Game: Insights From College Lacrosse Coaches
-Available on Amazon.com as an Ebook and paperback
Links to training videos:
Master The 5 Best Dodges From the Wing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_7LDOcQQ6Q&t=88s
Blazing Shots... on the Run!
https://youtu.be/XiptPlM63oQ
Check us out...
On YouTube @jaymcmahonlax23
On Instagram @jaymcmahonlax23
On Facebook @: facebook.com/jmcmahonlax23. Page name: Jay McMahon Lacrosse
Jules Heningburg: https://thelaxlab.com/
Check out!... Coach Tintle's Lacrosse Barn:
https://g.co/kgs/eXedCXf
SuccessHotline with Dr. Rob Gilbert on Ironclad & Apple Podcasts
Brian Cain Daily Dominator on Apple Podcasts
Lacrosse Charities Mentioned in S2 E36:
https://www.4thefuturefoundation.org/
https://www.harlemlacrosse.org/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
It's time for Get the LackScoop, a podcast bringing you
all the people and stuff youshould know in the game of
lacrosse.
We take lack seriously, butourselves, not so much.
Join host Big Dog and Jaybirdand the biggest names in the
game brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training.
(00:23):
Ron Doglish, the big dog, was acollegiate football and lacrosse
player at Brown.
He was also an assistantlacrosse coach and the executive
director of the SportsFoundation.
And Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, athree time All American
midfielder at Brown.
He was the captain of the U.
S.
Junior National Team and is thefounder of JML.
(00:43):
And Joining us in the studio,Steve Grisolfi, who's collegiate
lacrosse career statisticsequals one goal against
Dartmouth brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training, helping the
next generation of lacrosseplayers get to the next level.
LAX fans, we're excited to haveyou back for another episode of
(01:05):
Get the LAX Scoop.
Jay.
We're well in into March now.
The season is heating up.
Absolutely.
It was an exciting time to talklacrosse.
Very exciting.
I think.
Are you wearing a Tar Heelsshirt tonight?
You better believe it.
Jay that is like, really, that'sreally rubbing, that's a hint.
The face of, our good friendLars Tiffany, who's off to a
(01:27):
rather difficult start theheels.
Yeah.
And you know how the heels, youmean the hooves When I talk
about my friend Joe Brushy downthere at Carolina, but they seem
to be one of the early seasonfavorites.
Jay.
I'd have to agree.
I've been watching the heels.
They're looking dang good.
And the who's, you know, they'rea work in progress.
It might surprise some people.
(01:47):
Well, let's mark that in thehistory of get the lack scoop
and early.
I agree with Ron statement.
There doesn't happen much happenoften.
Jay, for God's get onto theintroduction and our guest
please.
Yes, dog.
We're very excited for our nextguest.
He hails from Levittown, NewYork on Long Island.
As a senior at MacArthur HighSchool, he was an All American
(02:10):
selection in lacrosse as well asthe midfielder of the year from
Nassau County.
He was also an Allstateselection in football and rushed
for over 2000 yards as a senior.
As many accolades earned him alacrosse scholarship at the
University of North Carolina,where he was a two-time
All-American Midfielder.
In 2008, as a senior, he servedas a captain and by Season's End
(02:33):
was named CO MVP of the ToHills.
While in Chapel Hill, he led theteam to two NCAA tournament
appearances.
Following graduation, he becamean exercise in lacrosse trainer
at Athletes Choice in SouthernCalifornia.
Shortly thereafter, he held anownership stake and management
position at this facility wherehe served until 2022.
(02:54):
Over the years at Athlete'sChoice, our guest impacted
literally thousands of lacrosseplayers helping many boys and
girls achieve their dream ofplaying college lacrosse.
After taking a break fromplaying competitive lacrosse
himself for a number of years,he felt the deep desire to get
back to the pursuit of somethingthat had alluded him all his
life, which was a championshipseason.
(03:16):
After three years of play, itwas mission accomplished as he
helped the Denver Outlaws winthe major Lacrosse league
championship in 2018.
Most recently, he's relocated tothe Dallas, Texas area where he
opened the lacrosse barn.
The Lacrosse barn is a premierlacrosse performance facility
spanning 3.3 acres with twobuildings in over 80,000 square
(03:38):
feet of space, all exclusivelydedicated to the lacrosse
athlete.
He and his staff offer a toptier lacrosse experience
enhancing the potential of everyathlete they mentor.
Teaming up with elite strengthand conditioning coaches, as
well as physical therapists.
Their mission is to deliver thefinest training experience in
the lacrosse world, crafted bylacrosse players.
(04:01):
For lacrosse players.
Please welcome our next guest,the Ms, the me, the maestro of
lacrosse training.
Nick Tel, welcome.
Thanks guys.
I appreciate it.
That was a, a great intro.
Hey, Jay, did you just say theMiz?
The ma.
The ma.
He's the maestro.
That might be the dorkiest thingI've ever heard.
Ron, you loved it, Nick.
(04:23):
Poetry emotion.
I'm sorry.
It had to be had guys.
One of the greatest, if not thegreatest.
We just had Jamie Monroe, sowe're getting, he know, he knows
he's great.
He's, he knows he's great.
Jay the, he's a MAs.
All right, Nick really cool tomeet you and great to have you
(04:44):
on tonight.
And one of the things we love todo, you know, hearing about your
lifelong passion for the game isall of us have that lacrosse
origin story.
Like you remember who was, youknow, when did you first learn
about the game?
When did you first develop thatpassion for the game when you
were a little tyke on LongIsland?
So, I, I guess it started, so Istarted in fourth grade, which I
(05:07):
guess is a little late for LongIsland kids.
But I still remember my firststick.
So we were a family friend isJoe De Simone with lacrosse
Unlimit and Rob Rimmer and thoseguys.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
So, so my first stick was a u,like A-A-S-T-X Viper, and it had
the UNC, it had UNC die on it,like the lacrosse.
Really?
Yeah.
So I was, I was a Michael Jordanfan since I was, as long as I
(05:30):
could remember, I wanted to playbasketball, Carolina.
That didn't work out, but Iplayed every sport you could
think of.
Lacrosse, to be honest with,with you, was my least favorite
sport.
And I think that goes into theprerequisite of mastering your
skillset, right?
So from the beginning, you know,you handed me a football, I ran
around people.
You, you put a basketball inhand.
(05:51):
I, I mastered dribbling and Iwas able to use my athleticism
to get to the, to the rim.
Baseball, you know, I was fast.
I was good, good fielder and,and was able to get on base and
I was fast so I could steal baseand stuff like that.
But lacrosse for some reasonchallenged me and it challenged
me early.
It was the kind of the sportthat your athletic athleticism
doesn't shine through until youmaster the stick.
(06:12):
And I really didn't take itseriously.
I had fun doing it, I remember,but I didn't, I didn't love it.
Mm-hmm.
And, and really where I wentthrough is I, I, where, where it
kind of, so in middle school youhad to make the choice of
baseball and lacrosse.
And my dad has a baseballbackground and he told me
whatever sport I choose, youknow, he'll support.
And I, I chose baseball.
(06:34):
And at first, and then a coupletalks with some coaches and, and
you know, some other people,they, they persuaded me back to
the lacrosse journey.
Nice.
Got you.
Back on the straight and arrow,thank goodness.
Yeah.
When I was in se, so when I wasin seventh grade, my mom used to
walk the track and, and Salk andand MacArthur are right next to
each other.
So Salk has a big wall and Iused to hit the wall for 30
(06:54):
minutes and then go shoot for 30minutes while my mom walked the
track.
And between that seventh andeighth grade year, from seventh
to eighth, you know, I was upthere five days a week or an
hour a day and, you know, nice.
When, when I got back in eighthgrade, I kind of started.
Athleticism started to takeover.
So I think that was my, my firstseventh, eighth grade was when I
really started to pay attentionto stick work and really, really
(07:16):
dive in.
And that's when I really startedto enjoy the game.
That's great.
I think it can be tough withyoung kids too, when you have
all these other options.
And lacrosse is challenging,especially when you're young and
back then usually you're playingon these full fields.
And I didn't start till a littlelater than you, but I was
training my son or coaching histeam when he was in second,
(07:37):
third grade.
And just being on that hugefield, they're getting whacked
with a stick.
It can be tough to get kids sometraction and get them feeling
good about it.
Yeah.
And I think you know, we get alot of I, I see it even harder
when you get to seventh, eighthgrade.
So if a kid picks it up late,'cause I, you know, I've been in
California and Dallas, you know,the last 15 years and we, we
(07:58):
recruit kids that are athletesfrom other sports and they
almost get so discouraged eventhough they dominate other
sports.
They get into lacrosse and theysee.
Guys that they know that they'remore athletic than that are way
ahead of them because of thatlacrosse stick.
So you gotta keep them kind ofon the, you know, keep'em
confident enough to get throughthat prerequisite of that, you
know, that one year dedicated togetting that stick stick up to
(08:20):
par.
Right?
Yeah, absolutely.
So I mean, Nick, you mentioned Ithink a couple of folks, but
also, you know, interested inwho some of the important people
were in your life.
As you said, you almost, youalmost went down that boring
baseball track stand aroundsport.
So glad I didn't do that.
But who were the, who were thepeople who influenced you, you
(08:41):
know, in that lacrosse journey?
And obviously you were amulti-sport athlete and you
know, I know in a lot of schoolsyou got guys who coach multiple
sports.
So I'm wondering who the, whowere the people that really
influenced you in your journey?
So, yeah, so I would start withmy dad's the biggest influence.
He's, he was my coach forbaseball and football.
He pushed me really hard.
He was really, really tough onme, and It was, it was tough
(09:04):
when I was a kid.
I look back at it now and Ican't thank him enough.
So I, I'd have to go with my dadfor that.
And then, like I, I call him mysecond dad is, is Scott Rogers'
senior.
So Scotty Rogers the gold from,not Dame, his dad was like a
second dad to me.
He got me into strength andconditioning with Scotty.
So without the strength andconditioning piece, I probably
(09:24):
would've never got recruited.
So he was a big part.
You got Ken Miller who does theLong Island Sting.
You know, we, that was like,club was just starting really to
take off when I was in highschool.
So I, I joined with them and,and that was a, a bunch of guys
from Levittown and Wonton andthen a couple other places in
Long Island.
So that was, travel was justkind of getting a start back
(09:47):
then.
2002.
Yeah.
From what I remember, it wasLong Island.
Long Island Sting was yourNassau County Boys.
And then Team Long Island wasthe Suffolk County.
And that was like Jamie Allenand and Federico.
I think I played for a seasonwith them and then it was just,
it was too far and we had thesting right next door for, to
me.
So but then Joe McDermott was acoach for the Sting Gordon
(10:07):
Purdy.
Oh yeah, yeah.
Gordon Purdy got, was was acoach of mine for a little bit.
Crazy.
I think he threw a a long poleat a ref one game.
Really?
Yeah.
Like javelin through, threw itacross the field.
Wow.
Yeah.
We used to play against him whenhe played for Delphi, so he,
yeah.
Yeah.
He's an OG like us.
Yes.
That's funny.
(10:28):
Warren Pur.
And then my high school coachwas Chris Bergeson who played at
Hofstra.
He was, he, he, he was great forme'cause he wasn't.
Like my other, like, he wasn'tlike my dad, he wasn't like
other coach.
He wasn't like type A.
He was like, he's like kind of,he kind of allowed me to find my
game and, and let me be creativeand, and kind of find my style.
And you know, he, I was a midimy whole entire life.
(10:51):
When I moved, when I playedvarsity as a freshman, I was
underside, so he put me oncrease attack'cause he knew I
could play, but like wasn'tready for maybe, you know,
dodging the bigger guys andstuff like that.
So I was kind of an insidefinisher.
Mm-hmm.
Which, which also sucked becauseJohn Ner was, was a senior at
that year and he played at Navyand John Ner was with the No
look Pass.
So I got case in the body, likeI couldn't catch his pass and he
(11:15):
would get so pissed off of it.
Right.
He, he was actually just here inDallas coaching Culver against
Highland Park and I got catch Ohwow.
Him, we had to catch up withhim, which I haven't seen him
forever, so it was good to catchup with him.
But that's neat.
Coach Ferguson and then my youthcoach, you know, seventh and
eighth when I really started, orsixth and seventh when I really
started loving the game was, wasCoach Bob Ello.
(11:35):
So I've had, I've had a lot ofreally good coaches in, in my
youth days.
That's great.
Awesome.
And as you mentioned, you were alittle undersized coming in
there as a ninth grader and intohigh school, and that it had
started this breakfast clubroutine with another good buddy
of yours.
So why don't you tell us aboutthat story and, and the impact
it had on you?
(11:57):
So, to rewind a little bit,like, I went into high school
wanting to be a football guy.
Like that was my, that was mynumber one sport.
I wanted to play football at thenext level, and I entered high
school as 119 pound kid, so,right.
Wow.
No, I was su I was good infootball and, you know, I was
quick, I was fast, I wasathletic.
I just, you know, the sizecatches up with you in that, in
(12:19):
sports like that.
Right.
So I guess this coach had, agreat deal of I don't know.
Like I, he's a big part of whyI, I got better on both the
lacrosse field and footballfield.
But he just did it in adifferent way.
He, he pretty much told me Iwould never play varsity
football.
And he goes, I would neverstart, I'd never see the field.
You're too tiny.
All, you know, kinda, again, nottype a way, but like, it was
(12:40):
like a different, like I couldhandle guys yelling at me
mm-hmm.
But telling me I couldn't dosomething was a new, and he
would do it very nonchalant andit really pissed me off just
like, yeah, you, you're nevergonna make it.
Oh.
That kind of thing.
That was like, he was sononchalant, like, oh yeah, okay,
10, oh, you're too small, you'renever gonna play by.
I was like, it just drove me.
So me, and we probably could seeyou getting fired up and being
(13:02):
like, okay, it's working.
Alright.
It hit a, it struck a nerve forsure.
So.
So Coach Farney, who was ourfoot, our JB football coach, I
broke my collarbone for freshmanyear of football on jv.
Mm.
And that's when I realized,okay, when I get out of this
sling, I gotta do somethingabout it.
Like, I, I would come home intears to my parents and like,
they would be like, well,crying's not gonna do anything
about it.
(13:23):
Complaining or blaming otherpeople are not gonna do
anything.
Like what's the solution?
So that's where it all started.
It is like, I just was like, allright, well, I'm too small.
What do I have to do?
I gotta hit the weight room.
Mm-hmm.
So Coach Farney would open the,the, like we went, we approach
him and he, he would come inearly and open it up for me and
Scotty Rogers and we would getin there and he'd put us through
a lifting program.
And when I started that, I, youknow, it was tough at first, but
(13:45):
then it became just a part of myday.
So I didn't miss a day in theweight room at five 30 in the
morning after I got the o out ofthat sling for the next four
years.
And I ended up gaining 20 poundsevery off season.
And you know, I was a latebloomer, so by the time I was a
junior I was, you know, one 70and decent sized.
Still kind of small, but.
Strong enough to handle stuff.
(14:05):
Right.
And my athleticism took overfrom there.
So that was a big, a big, thatwas a big part of my success,
Jay.
Great.
Two takeaways that of maybe whyI was not as great a player as I
could have been.
First of all I think I, Ihaven't been 119 pounds since
second grade.
And I don't think I was ever inthe weight room at five 30 in
(14:26):
the morning rbo No.
Yeah.
It's just, it's clear, Jake,it's clear now we know where
greatness comes from.
That's when I get older.
Doesn't come from all those esepeanut butter cup cups you got
by your bedside.
That's good stuff.
And then so Rogers, was itScotty Rogers?
He was the, a big goalie forNotre Dame, right?
Correct.
Yeah.
That's, that's cool.
(14:47):
Scotty's been a friend of minefor a long time.
That's awesome.
So the two of you, and he's a,he's a big guy, right?
Yeah, he is a, he is definitelya big guy, but I would always.
You know, I'd always challengehim on the body weight stuff.
So like Pullups, you know, bigguy long.
Oh, right.
He's hard.
He can't see that dog Pullups as119 pound little guy, so.
Right, right.
We would push each other indifferent things.
(15:08):
He would get me on the bench andI would get him on the, the
pullups.
That's awesome.
That's great.
That's, that's a great lax buddyright there.
And then he would've beenprobably on the team when they
were in the nationalchampionship game, right?
Correct.
Yeah.
Was that, yeah.
That's cool.
That's awesome.
And so let's see.
Oh yeah, so, so Jay who likes tofollow the script is getting
(15:30):
lost.
Well, you know, I just want youto, I'm waiting for him.
It's his, his question trying tostick to the script tonight.
True.
I thought I was wrong.
So he doesn't know what the hellhe's doing.
He just keeps telling you.
That's great.
That's nice.
Zip it.
Zip it.
I got the next question.
So Nick you mentioned a littlebit about travel across,
starting back then.
Was early recruiting going onback then?
(15:50):
Like what was it like and if so,no.
Okay.
If not, then you'd still being alittle undersized, like someone
like Scotty Rogers who wasprobably big back then.
Did you notice a difference?
'cause it's really impressivethat you got to UNC, you know,
with a scholarship.
You know, we know Dylan Malloyfrom Brown.
He was a little undersized, butyou know, he kind of got passed
(16:11):
up at, you know, kind of slippedthrough the cracks a little bit.
So tell us a little bit whatrecruiting was like back then.
So 2003, 2004 or something likethat.
Right.
I graduated 2004.
Yeah.
Okay.
So the recruiting, the recruit,well, 2000, yeah, 2003 would be
my junior, so 2 0 2 2003.
So the recruiting process wasway different than it is now.
(16:33):
Obviously.
It's, it's kind of a crazy thingnow.
I wasn't stressed about I can'ttell you where I was thinking at
that time, but like I, I knowthat I wasn't worried about it.
I knew that someone would findme and all I had to do was
control what I can control, getin the weight room, get bigger,
get stronger, get faster, andthen work on my, on my skills.
So I was not recruited.
I was also, I was kind of likeblind to it.
(16:55):
Like I wasn't, like, my parentsdidn't push it or anything like
that.
They didn't like, it wasn't likeit is today.
With, with the, the parentinfluence, my parents just let
it be, and I guess I didn'trealize it until, so they, they
had the Long Island Empire team,which they don't have anymore,
but the Empire team is prettymuch like a nine tryout thing.
(17:15):
If you make all county, you getlike one tryout off and then you
come to the second round oftryouts and, you know, I saw
some really good guys before me,like the year before Danowski
and those guys and you know,some guys making like, that was
like, like my goal, like makethat long on empire Team.
So I, I, I discussed it with myhigh school coach and I was
(17:35):
playing attack at that time.
And, you know, there's, they'rethree attack and they're gonna
take probably five to the Empiregame.
So you're, you're, you gotta bethe top five.
So I thought I was gonna have abetter chance at moving to MIDI
for the trial, which I did.
Right.
I'm gonna take, you know, eightor nine guys probably.
So I, I changed to midfield andI made it to the last round,
then eventually got asked to beon the team.
(17:57):
And I think that was the biggestbreakthrough for me recruiting
wise, because I wasn't gettingletters or anything like that
until I made that team.
Mm-hmm.
And really it hit when we wentto the games and we were
playing, we were down to the theupstate team.
We were down at half orsomething and I took the huddle
and you had guys like StevenPser gonna Hopkins and.
(18:19):
Some guys gonna, Georgetown andSyracuse, you had Pat Parrot
gonna Syracuse and these guyswere already committed.
And then a lot of other guyswere, you know, there's a bunch
of Carolina guys and they'relike, what, who's, who's
contacting you?
Who's reaching out to you?
I'm like, Nope.
I haven't got a single letter.
But I remember halftime, I, Itook the huddle over and I was
like, you need to step it up.
Like we're the best, you know,we're the best in Long Island.
(18:39):
Let's represent that.
And like, I kind of took aleadership role against guys
that like, we're alreadycommitted that I should Right,
right.
They should probably me like topick, pick it up.
But that's strong island dog.
Yeah.
And I think that was a, I, Iremember letters getting it.
It was like, we like how you ledthat Long Island team and you
were, you were vocal in thehuddle.
It's like, that was a big partof my, my recruiting process is
(19:01):
what I remember.
Right.
I was on that Empire team wayback when I was around and that
was pretty much the only timecoaches saw you.
So interesting.
Yeah.
Nick ne Jay never also misses anopportunity to, you know, tout
his own career.
Well, I didn't mention I wasMidfields of the year also in
Nassau County.
I didn't say that.
And, and he, and he just provesit over and over again.
(19:27):
Nick, you know, I was holdingback.
He's a shameless completeshamelessness.
Connecting with our guest Ron.
We have things in common soNick, it, it is really cool to
hear about, and it seems like,I'm sure this is the kind of
thing you talk to the kids thatyou train all the time.
You know, you're, you're a guywho's not even getting
(19:47):
recruiting letters and then yougo on to North Carolina where
you're a two time all American,a captain Co MVP of the team as
a senior, you know, playing in acouple of NCA tournament you
know, a couple of NCAtournaments.
So, you know, whether you'regetting a letter or not does not
define whether you can and willbe a great player.
(20:10):
But tell us about the decisionto go to Carolina and you talked
about being a Michael Jordan fanand having that first stick with
the Carolina Blue, but what wasthe decision to go to Carolina
and what were some of, you know,your great memories from that
experience?
So, yeah, wanted to go toCarolina as a little kid, so if
they offered me, I would,that's, I was saying yes, and
that's pretty much whathappened.
(20:30):
Right.
So I was talking to Virginia andMaryland.
I was talking to Coddle and, andDom Staria and I got off the
phone with them.
Yeah.
I just set up, I just set upvisits to go to Virginia and
Maryland, and I get off thephone and Coach Hos calls me for
Carolina, he says, so I had togo to committee to get in
Carolina.
My SATs weren't of the best, sothey had to like fight for me to
get in and, and so on.
So I was waiting for hear from'em.
(20:51):
So Coach Hoss called me backliterally right after I got off
the phone with, with those twocoaches.
And he goes, Hey, we got you in.
Do you wanna be a Tar Heel?
And I, I instantly like, yes,like wow.
And so I had to call Coach StarJeba and Coach Coddle back and
tell him that I wouldn't becoming.
And honestly to, to just, youknow, those are tough calls to
make.
Tell my story, I have to tellyou is that I wish I went to
(21:14):
those visits at the very leastbecause I can't tell you that I,
you know, I.
I made my decision on a schoolbased off the best basketball
player to ever play the game.
I didn't base it off.
I didn't base it off.
Who are my coaches for the nextfour years?
Who are the other guys goingthere?
What kind of educate, like whatdo I want to do with the rest of
(21:35):
my life?
Well, what, what's my, what's mymajor?
I made the decision because Iwanted to go to Carolina.
That's it.
I wanted to wear the CarolinaBlue, and I wanted to wear the
number 23, right?
So, I don't know if I would, I,I don't know if I would've been
at Tar Hill if I went to thoseother guy, like Virginia was a
second, like a very second cllike, you know, close in the
running.
I don't think Marilyn was, mytop choices, but I just, I
(21:56):
should have just gone andexperienced something else.
But my Carolina experience was,was great on the lacrosse field.
Not, not what I wanted, not whatI expected.
I, I wanted to win a nationalchampionship, you know, everyone
does.
I think the culture was a littlebit.
Not what I expected,unfortunately.
So, but you know, being atCarolina, being a Carolina alum,
(22:18):
I couldn't be more proud.
Like I, I loved the school, Iloved my buddies that I
graduated with.
I just, the lacrosse experiencewasn't, wasn't what I wanted it
to be, to be honest.
Mm-hmm.
Culture wise?
Like, what was it that waslacking you think, while you
were there?
It was culture wise, I'm, I'mfrom Levittown, blue collar kid.
It wasn't, it was, it was a softculture.
(22:39):
It wasn't tough.
I was more of like in betweenthe lines guides.
I wasn't your best offensiveguy.
I wasn't your best defensiveguy, but I was really good at
both.
And you're gonna get 110% outtame no matter how good the
coaching is or how bad thecoaching is.
Or you know, you, I'm showing upand I'm gonna give you
everything I have.
And I just, the, the, thebiggest thing for me, and it's,
it's not to call out the otherguys that were at Carolina.
(23:02):
It starts from top to bottom,but they weren't all in.
We were there, there was a lotof guys that were half in and,
and a lot of the guys thatstarted were the guys that were
not all in.
And that, for me, I'm okay withlosing as long as I give it my
best effort.
Right.
And when there's, when you're ina team sport and you're, you're
trying to get everyone to givetheir best effort, and half guys
(23:22):
are are just going throughmotions, it's, it's a tough pill
to swallow.
'cause we have the top fiverecruiting class, you know, top,
top 10, recruit, whatever, youknow, we, Carolina always is in
the top recruiting class.
Right.
And for some rea for those fouryears, even when we did make our
periods to my junior and senioryear, we, we underachieved and I
mm-hmm.
It still bothers me that weunderachieved.
(23:43):
That's the only, that's thething that bothers me most is
there's not achieving part.
Right.
I gotcha.
I, I was gonna actually ask you,but I think you, you kind of
alluded to it here, but youknow, while on the top line of
that.
That lacrosse resume, so tospeak.
You know, you're saying, Hey,two time All American Captain
Co, MVP and say tournament, whata, what a career, you know?
(24:07):
But it seems like, you know,there, there was adversity and
difficult times.
So, you know, what did, what didyou learn from all that you
know, both the highs and thelows at Carolina that maybe you
bring with you today as you'reworking with so many young kids?
I learned that leadership isthe, the path less taken.
(24:27):
I think it's a thing that youhave to learn and continue to
learn.
You never end up at being at thetop of leadership.
You're always gonna have tolearn more and, and adapt.
Going from high school, I led byexample 5:38 AM workouts being
the hardest worker in practice.
And other guys bought in.
In college, that doesn't happenas much.
(24:48):
You can't lead by example.
You have to be a little bit morevocal.
And, and I regret not being morevocal with guys and getting
that, you know, getting them inin shape and stuff like that
and, and getting them on one onthe same page.
We tried, I remember.
And I was like, look, you know,and, and it's, I don't talk
about coaches'cause, you know,my coaches were great.
Like, it, it's not that, it'sjust the coaches lost the locker
(25:12):
room.
And for me to be a captain andtry to glue those pieces
together, it just was almostlike an impossible task.
Mm-hmm.
So I, I drive myself crazythinking about what I could have
done differently to get adifferent outcome, but you can
only you know, do so much.
You know, we, we tried to getthe guys to say like, Hey, we're
the guys on the field.
Like, we're the ones playing, itdoesn't matter about who's
coaching us or what.
(25:32):
It's, it's about us.
So let's play for guy next tous.
And we, we tried that thing, itjust.
You gotta put a full on effortfrom the day you step on campus
to the day you leave campus.
And, you know, fall balls wereloose and guys were hanging out
and going out and partying,including myself.
And, and it just wasn't, thewinning a national championship
wasn't the ultimate goal.
(25:52):
It was, it, it just wasn'tthere.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
But that kind of naturalleadership ability for you seems
to have really kind of, thecream was rising at the top, I
guess, ever since that EmpireState game scenario.
And then you were a captain atMacArthur and then, I mean, as
you said, it's, you could, youmust have been a great leader.
They voted you to be one of thecaptains, but if you've got 60,
(26:15):
70% of the, the other guys justrefusing to come along, there's
only so much you can do, Iimagine.
Yeah.
And that's kind of what Ilearned it's led me on the path
of my coaching now to be, to, toallow these kids to understand
that being vocal.
It's hard to get guys to buy inor girls to buy in on the team
(26:35):
and do the things necessary noteven, I don't even talk about
winning.
I talk about maximizingpotential, right?
Right, how do we, what are thelittle small details that give
us an edge over our competition?
How do I maximize my potential?
Whether that is a role that Ihave to take on fully or if I
(26:56):
have to produce a certain amountof, you know, goals or to sit,
or if I have to get ground ballsfor my team.
Like, taking on that role andgoing all in with it.
Not thinking you have to be the,the best player on the team,
but, but take your role.
And I think I learned that morewith the Denver Outlaws than
anything.
I had to play a certain rolethat I wasn't used to playing,
but I was gonna do my best.
(27:17):
I.
Play that role and do my job andlike, that's like Bill Belichick
will bring him in'cause he's atUNC now, which is awesome.
Right.
Do your job and do your job.
Does their job you got, you geta good outcome.
Right.
Controlling what you cancontrol.
Right.
You know, letting go of thewinning or losing, it'll take
care of itself kind of thing.
So, yeah.
(27:37):
So that's interesting.
We transitioned to, uh, JML.
And let's do that.
We'll get into a little bit ofthe mindset.
We'll do a mindset minute
MacBook Pro Microphone- (27:47):
today's mindset Minute comes from one of
Brian Kane's, 10 Principles ofMental Performance Mastery.
Dr.
Rob Gilbert mentored the greatBrian Kane in the sports
performance field.
Brian Kain has worked with CyYoung Award winners, Olympic
Gold medalists, and with theYale Bulldogs men's lacrosse
team in 2018, the year they wonthe national championship.
(28:09):
The principle was just mentionedby Coach Tinel, and it is focus
on process over outcome.
Many coaches and players willtake pause when they hear the
recommendation to not focus onwinning.
Hey, if we don't focus onwinning, we're not gonna be
competitive enough.
Well, three of the mostsuccessful coaches of all time,
(28:32):
Nick Saban, John Wooden.
And Coach Bill Tierney allfocused on process over outcome.
Brian Cain takes a quote fromNick Saban's book, how good do
you want to Be?
In which he said, becoming achampion is not an easy process.
It is done by focusing on whatit takes to get there.
Parentheses, the process not ongetting their parentheses, the
(28:57):
outcome coming from a guy who'swon seven national titles.
That's a powerful statement.
The best coaches and trainers inthe world see the process as a
staircase.
They climb each day staircase.
They reverse engineer from theirlong-term goals, such as winning
a national title back to theirshort-term goals, such as
(29:17):
getting better at rides andclears In today's practice, the
best of the best focus on theoutcome 20% of the time.
While focusing 80% of the timeon today and the steps they must
take today to get the outcomethey desire, the foundation of a
process over outcome mentalityis controlling what you can
(29:39):
control.
Being relentless about focusingon what you can control and
letting go of what you can't asquickly as possible is one of
the fundamentals that eliteperformers possess.
Brian Kane states in his mentalperformance mastery course.
If I could hammer home only onepoint with a client, this would
be it.
Get clarity on controlling whatyou can control to become peak
(30:03):
performers yourself, or as acoach to help your players
achieve their goals.
We must learn how todifferentiate between what we
can and can't control.
When and how this strategy isused.
Well, when we start to see thetendency in ourselves or in our
players to blame things outsideof our control for our
struggles, that's when we useit.
(30:25):
It's our job to realize thatputting time and energy into
things we cannot control iswasting both of those precious
resources.
Focusing on those noncontrollables is a
self-defeating game.
To begin as a player or coach,make a list of everything
non-controllable that you facethat may impact your results or
ability to achieve your goals.
(30:47):
You'll probably think of thingslike the officials, the fans,
the other team, the amount ofplaying time you may be getting
as a player, field conditions,the schedule, et cetera.
Ask yourself or your players,what should you do with all
those things?
If they don't make theconnection themselves, help them
out by saying.
Forget about them.
(31:07):
Instead, focus your time andenergy on what you can control.
The only things you can controlare yourself, your attitude,
your appearance, your effort,your energy, your emotions.
Brian Kane calls that your ape aPE.
Get yourself and your playersfamiliar with their ape.
We all need to realize thatsuccess is determined by how
(31:29):
well we control thecontrollable.
Do that and let the outcome fallwhere it may.
Knowing you did your part byunderstanding the competitive
arena that you are in.
By doing that, you can helpdirect your focus and those of
your players to the process ofperformance.
This knowledge cuts out all theunnecessary elements that most
players focus on when they failto understand the process over
(31:51):
outcome approach and any givencontest on the schedule can be
looked at as a microcosm.
Of the same process coaches andplayers during any lacrosse
game.
To use a Dr.
Rob Gilbert phrase should focuson where their feet are.
That means being in the momentin, intense fashion.
(32:12):
Don't be worrying about what thescore is or what's gonna happen
15 minutes from now.
Focus on getting the next groundball, making the right pass up
the field, and getting that nextgoal and the next one after
that.
And the next one after that.
This knowledge of focusing onwhat you can control and
focusing on the process over theoutcome is super powerful and
(32:33):
will lead to more success thanyou could ever imagine.
Just ask Coach Nick Saban andCoach Bill Tierney, they'll tell
you the same.
Now, we will return to ourinterview and you will find that
interview in process.
And yeah, and I would definitelyimagine all your leadership
skills being tested throughoutthe years has really come full
(32:54):
circle for you as a lacrossetrainer up on these kids.
I mean, it's probably, you cantell them so many real life
stories that you've had that canhelp impact their life, right?
Yeah.
It's all, it all comes from whatI've experienced.
So I've, I've been, you know,I'm gonna turn 39 on on March
10th.
Oh, you're a baby.
And I know, I, you know, it'sfunny though.
(33:15):
I was like, when my dad turned40, I thought he was old as
hell.
You were thinking that I'm ayear away and I feel like I'm 20
still.
So it's pretty, you're nevergonna not feel like you're 20.
I mean, your knees and yourshoulders might not, but like me
and dog are getting really old.
We, we think we're young, youknow, you never really are gonna
feel old in your head.
I'm just gonna look it in my 39years though I've gone through
(33:39):
quite a bit.
So I, I draw on all myexperiences good and bad to help
the kids that are in front of meon a daily basis, Right.
Yeah.
I know after looking at a few ofyour other interviews online
that after Carolina you kind ofwent home to Long Island and
were working for a year or twoand then felt like you weren't
really yourself and that youneeded a change in scenery and
(34:01):
then you move all the way out toCalifornia and you know, as you
described, you went through achallenging and difficult period
of time at that stage.
And then getting through that,getting over that adversity.
I know you're starting to writea book about your experience.
I'm sure it's not just aboutthat experience, but that's kind
of a keystone of it.
So tell us a little bit aboutthat time after Carolina, and
(34:22):
then what got you out toCalifornia?
Well, the book is done.
Oh wow.
I just, you know, we,congratulations.
Last, we're on our last bit ofediting and stuff.
I just had a, a meeting actuallybefore this.
We've got, the book has beenturned down by 72 publishers.
Our, it's just, it, we're not abig four sport.
There's, they don't see enoughaudience for it.
(34:42):
And that's the story of my lifegetting shut down and getting
rejected and stuff like that.
But this book's gonna be verysuccessful.
It's, it's, there you go.
You're not gonna take no for ananswer.
Right.
Oh, I love it.
I'm actually gonna take allthose rejections., I told the
literary agents to send me allthe rejections.
I wanna read'em and I wanna put'em in the book.
'cause when it, when it is, whenit is successful, that's
awesome.
(35:02):
And that's, but that's how I'mright.
You tell me I'm too small.
I'm gonna three be wrong.
That's, it's just like, like Mosome people would be crushed by
that.
Like, I was laughing on the Zoomcall today.
I was like, I was like, this isgreat.
This is exactly what the book'sabout.
It's about right.
Becoming adversity and I I Ilove that.
Right.
That's great.
So, so going back to college I,I graduated with a
(35:26):
communications degree, still notknowing what I want to do in my
life.
And I actually stayed for anextra semester.
The extra semester I get a callfrom a buddy at my from home.
Telling me one of my bestfriends was shot and killed.
Oh gosh.
Sorry man.
That just, wow.
So Sean killed up in Albany, NewYork.
So I graduated, not really, Idon't know, in a, in a, in a
(35:52):
rough way.
I, I got a happy dose of realityin real life.
Right, right.
You know, entering the realworld.
So that happened I wasgraduating, so I had to fly home
and bury my best friend and thenfly back and, you know, get my
diploma.
Mm-hmm.
And then, and then a month lateryou know, will, will, will
(36:15):
Barrow was another good friend.
And that happened a month later.
Oh gosh.
Yeah.
So I buried two really goodfriends within a month's time.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And yeah, so that was the, theheavy, heavy dose of real life.
And, you know, it put me, andI'm not, I look back at this,
I'm not really proud of it, butgetting, you know, I, I got to a
(36:39):
really dark place you know,doing things out of my
character.
Mm-hmm.
I lost my way.
I I kind of escaped throughdrinking and, and other forms of
numbing the pain.
Mm-hmm.
So I was, I was completely lost.
I was working dead end jobs.
Again, it's a gift and a cursefor handling adversity.
(37:00):
Right.
You use your alumni.
Network to get into the realworld and jobs and work up the
corporate ladder, whatever youwant to do.
And I, my, my, my dad's acarpenter by trade, and my mom
was a teacher, so I didn't comefrom a lot of money.
So I wanted to be kind of thebreadwinner.
I wanted to make a lot of moneyyou know, be in the corporate
world, be in finance, whateverit may be in Manhattan.
And you know, I had all thesenetworks that were willing to
(37:23):
help me out.
They knew what I was goingthrough.
They were willing to help meout.
And I turned'em down because Itold'em I wanted to do it
myself.
I wanted to do it on my own.
I didn't take, I didn't takehand me outs.
Now, being in the businessworld, knowing about that, this,
this world is all aboutnetworking, right, right.
Yeah.
So, yeah, so I took a dead endjob selling car insurance at
Geico.
(37:43):
I worked a couple jobs.
Yeah.
So it, it just, it was a time inmy life that I don't like to
talk about.
It was just, it was a darkplace.
I dug, I dug a hole so deep, youknow, that, you know, it was, it
was.
The only way to climb out was tostart over.
Right.
So I decided to, I, I came homeone night and I was disappointed
(38:04):
in what I was doing.
And I told my, it was actuallymy sister.
I told my sister that I had toget out here.
I'm gonna go to California,which is the furthest place away
from New York.
Right.
Leaving three months.
And she said, go, you need tojust go and start over.
So that's, that's what I did.
I I saved a, a little bit ofmoney for the next three months,
and then I drove.
And did you have like anyconnection to California?
(38:26):
No, I had nobody out there.
I don't, I didn't, I mean, Ifound, I found people once I was
out that I didn't even know wereout there.
But yeah.
That's great.
I joined Cross Country withthree other buddies and we
started, it just started over.
That's amazing.
Well, Nick, man, I, I you know,I'm so grateful for you sharing
what you shared.
I, I really do think it'simportant for.
(38:48):
Young kids to understand, youknow, life can be tough and and
you clearly went through somereally challenging times and
it's still so raw for you allthese years later, you know?
And so appreciate you sharing itbecause again, I, I think
sometimes, especially as guysand athletes and tough guys,
we're not supposed to talkabout, you know, those, our
(39:10):
feelings and those things thatreally impacted us.
But I think, you know, there'sso many people who struggle in
different ways in their life andhaving people who have
accomplished what you'veaccomplished despite all of it
you know, it's, it's a, it's animportant story to tell.
So right.
And then I think it probably,it's not easy than I appreciate,
right?
It's got really tough and, butI'm sure it adds such another
(39:30):
layer to your experience thatyou can share with these kids,
right?
That it just makes you that muchstronger.
I mean, it's, really amazing.
But go ahead Ron.
I'm, I'm cutting you off.
When you're ready to give yournext question.
Well, not only that, you cut meoff when I was trying to tell
Nick at a very emotional momentin our, in our Ron LAX history,
(39:52):
just trying to be positive here,Jay.
Good lord.
Yeah.
But anyway, Nick, thanks forsharing that, man.
Really appreciate it.
Well, I, I didn't, I didn'tshare it for so long.
I, I buried it Yeah.
A long time.
I I actually started sharing itright bef, you know, right about
when Covid hit, that's when Istarted opening up because I, I
saw these kids struggling on adeeper level than what we were,
(40:16):
I mean, what parents wereseeing, what teachers were
seeing, what coaches wereseeing.
It gave me the avenue to talk tothem on a deeper level and kind
of share my experiences, youknow, once I figured out what
was going on with them.
And a lot of kids were in verydark places right.
It's the thing I think we'retaught to like tamp all that
stuff down, right?
So it's interesting how it wascoming up to you as you're
(40:37):
seeing these kids go throughjust a bigger struggle than most
people would ever have gonethrough.
So that's, that's pretty cool.
So, so Nick, is it a, isn't itan exaggeration to say that, you
know, you, you go out toCalifornia and, and is is
finding physical training andlacrosse training, did that kind
of get you back, get your mojoback in terms of things you
(41:01):
loved and now you were sharingthings you loved with other
people?
You know, what role did thatplay in kind of your rebirth, so
to speak?
It, it did eventually when Ifirst moved out, I just needed
to find a job and pay for rent.
Yeah.
Right, right.
So I actually, I moved toCalifornia and the, the story
goes like this.
I I got, I took a job sellingsolar panels, door to door
(41:24):
canvassing doors.
Lacrosse was in the rear viewmirror for me.
I never thought I would pick upa stick again, to be honest.
Wow.
I was so burnt out after collegethen that happened and I was
just, you know, I didn't thinkabout it.
I just thought about what'snext.
And yeah, I was too busyclimbing my way outta the hole
that I dug for myself.
So it really wasn't, wasn'tthere.
(41:45):
But I canvass at her house andI, I thank this lady for yelling
at me this close to my face.
She, you know, stoppedsoliciting at my door and like,
yell, I mean, cursing.
Every curse word came outta ofher mouth.
And I sat across.
So she finally left, and then Iwent across the street and sat
down.
I was like, I don't want to dothis right.
I don't wanna do this.
So I call my mom and I go, mom,I, I'm gonna quit this job.
(42:08):
And, you know, she's obviouslyhas more wisdom than I do at
that age.
And she told me, don't quituntil you find another job.
I call my other buddy and he islike, we're drinking Corona's on
the beach in Huntington Beach.
And I go, yep, I'm quitting.
So I hand my clipboard to theguy, I go, I go drink on the
beach in, in Huntington Beach,California.
And I wake up on, you know, onthe weekend and Monday comes
(42:31):
around, I'm jobless and I gotall these bills to pay and I'm
like, I'm screwed.
So I, I I hired a headhunter,got me a couple of corporate
interviews.
And this is where this comesback full circle as I'm sitting
in the interview.
And at this time I actually, Iactually, I actually interviewed
for a job in Manhattan that Igot.
It was nine interviews long.
It was for like a financialadvising.
(42:52):
And I got the job out 300applicants.
It was like three people got gotasked to, to come on board and I
turned it out because I wasgonna California.
But I just, I was in acompetitive mode of like seeing
if I can get this high end job.
So I was really good atinterviewing.
I, I knew what to tell people,what they wanted to hear, and so
on and so forth.
So I was at this Fortune 500company and the last question
(43:14):
she asked, she goes, where doyou see yourself in five to 10
years?
And I, I sat there for a minuteand I thought, I really thought
about it on the beach drinkingCoronas.
Holy kidding.
And so I really thought aboutthe question for a second, and
I, and that's when it was kindof, that's, that was like my
aha, aha moment of like, what doI love?
What do I, I love strength andconditioning and speed because
it helped me when I, when I hadno answers, that was the only
(43:38):
answer that got me to where Iwanted to go.
So I got my strength andconditioning.
So she asked me, where do yousee yourself in five to 10
years?
And I go, and, you know, theanswer is I see myself climbing
up the corporate ladder, being amanager, a leader of a team,
and, and you know, whatever thatis for that company.
And I told her, I said, in fiveto 10 years I see myself owning
my own gym.
And she goes, okay, well it wasnice to meet, right?
(44:02):
My head hunter calls me andgoes, what the, what are you
whatcha doing?
I go, I found out what I wannado.
I'm gonna get, I'm gonna go getmy strength and conditioning
certifications.
I'm gonna get my speed.
And I really, my, my, my giftwas speed change direction,
stuff like that.
So I really want to dive intothe speed world, and that's what
I did.
So I I went to the first gymthat I applied to.
(44:23):
I went into it in, in like a, a,a meetup with them, and they
hired me on the spot.
They didn't hire me because Ihad my strength and speed
certification.
That was one that was, you know,it's a cherry on top, but my
resume read All America UNC,lacrosse.
Lacrosse, lacrosse.
So they're like, we have a bunchof lacrosse athletes that need a
lacrosse specific trainer.
I was like, I don't, I don't, Idon't do that.
(44:45):
I, and they're like, wellthat's, that's, that's your
resume and that's what we needyou for.
So if you don't wanna do that,then we don't have a job for
you.
So I I took it and startedcoaching both boys and girls
lacrosse.
And then That's funny.
That's kind of when I, you know,the, I, I talk about this.
You couldn't get away from it.
You couldn't get away from it.
It, it came after you.
I got away, I got away for itfor six years, but it came back
(45:07):
into my life Right.
When I needed it.
I, I, right, right.
Tend to tell people, you know,like we call it the medicine
game and yeah, I never reallypaid attention to that or
understood that, but I 100%believe that it was the perfect
antidote for me at that time.
Right.
It got me back, it got a stickback in my hand.
I was making$10 an hour.
I was eating subway for lunchand dinner.
(45:28):
So I was by, at the time it was$5 foot longs I was close to be.
So I would order a$5 foot longand cut it in half, you know,
have half for lunch and half fordinner.
Barely have enough gas in my carto get to and from work.
But I loved what I was doing.
I was coaching kids, I wasteaching'em speed, teach'em
strength, getting some, some youknow, some hours logging
(45:50):
strength and speed, and thendoing the lacrosse on the side
and building the lacrosse thing.
And then I start, you know,start getting these kids really
good at lacrosse.
And I'm, I'm starting to gainmomentum and then I go to a
couple games and watch.
And then I started, you know, Iwas coaching a club team.
I was coaching high school, andthen I'm like on the sideline
and I'm like getting morenervous than the kids are.
And I'm like, those butterfliesare like, I want to, I wanna
(46:11):
compete again.
I wanna play again.
MacBook Pro Microphone-3 (46:13):
He wants to play again.
He wants to compete again, butit's been a while since his UNC
days.
It's the age old question thathaunts every athlete sooner or
later, and that question is,does this old jalopy still have
gas in the tank to find out?
Tune in next week.
Until we meet again.
Here's to hoping you find thetwine.
(46:36):
We're signing off here at theget the lax scoop.
Thanks again so much.
We will see you the next time.
It's time for Get the LackScoop, a podcast bringing you
all the people and stuff youshould know in the game of
lacrosse.
We take lack seriously, butourselves, not so much.
Join host Big Dog and Jaybirdand the biggest names in the
game brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training.
(00:23):
Ron Doglish, the big dog, was acollegiate football and lacrosse
player at Brown.
He was also an assistantlacrosse coach and the executive
director of the SportsFoundation.
And Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, athree time All American
midfielder at Brown.
He was the captain of the U.
S.
Junior National Team and is thefounder of JML.
(00:43):
And Joining us in the studio,Steve Grisolfi, who's collegiate
lacrosse career statisticsequals one goal against
Dartmouth brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training, helping the
next generation of lacrosseplayers get to the next level.
LAX fans, we're excited to haveyou back for another episode of
(01:05):
Get the LAX Scoop.
Jay.
We're well in into March now.
The season is heating up.
Absolutely.
It was an exciting time to talklacrosse.
Very exciting.
I think.
Are you wearing a Tar Heelsshirt tonight?
You better believe it.
Jay that is like, really, that'sreally rubbing, that's a hint.
The face of, our good friendLars Tiffany, who's off to a
(01:27):
rather difficult start theheels.
Yeah.
And you know how the heels, youmean the hooves When I talk
about my friend Joe Brushy downthere at Carolina, but they seem
to be one of the early seasonfavorites.
Jay.
I'd have to agree.
I've been watching the heels.
They're looking dang good.
And the who's, you know, they'rea work in progress.
It might surprise some people.
(01:47):
Well, let's mark that in thehistory of get the lack scoop
and early.
I agree with Ron statement.
There doesn't happen much happenoften.
Jay, for God's get onto theintroduction and our guest
please.
Yes, dog.
We're very excited for our nextguest.
He hails from Levittown, NewYork on Long Island.
As a senior at MacArthur HighSchool, he was an All American
(02:10):
selection in lacrosse as well asthe midfielder of the year from
Nassau County.
He was also an Allstateselection in football and rushed
for over 2000 yards as a senior.
As many accolades earned him alacrosse scholarship at the
University of North Carolina,where he was a two-time
All-American Midfielder.
In 2008, as a senior, he servedas a captain and by Season's End
(02:33):
was named CO MVP of the ToHills.
While in Chapel Hill, he led theteam to two NCAA tournament
appearances.
Following graduation, he becamean exercise in lacrosse trainer
at Athletes Choice in SouthernCalifornia.
Shortly thereafter, he held anownership stake and management
position at this facility wherehe served until 2022.
(02:54):
Over the years at Athlete'sChoice, our guest impacted
literally thousands of lacrosseplayers helping many boys and
girls achieve their dream ofplaying college lacrosse.
After taking a break fromplaying competitive lacrosse
himself for a number of years,he felt the deep desire to get
back to the pursuit of somethingthat had alluded him all his
life, which was a championshipseason.
(03:16):
After three years of play, itwas mission accomplished as he
helped the Denver Outlaws winthe major Lacrosse league
championship in 2018.
Most recently, he's relocated tothe Dallas, Texas area where he
opened the lacrosse barn.
The Lacrosse barn is a premierlacrosse performance facility
spanning 3.3 acres with twobuildings in over 80,000 square
(03:38):
feet of space, all exclusivelydedicated to the lacrosse
athlete.
He and his staff offer a toptier lacrosse experience
enhancing the potential of everyathlete they mentor.
Teaming up with elite strengthand conditioning coaches, as
well as physical therapists.
Their mission is to deliver thefinest training experience in
the lacrosse world, crafted bylacrosse players.
(04:01):
For lacrosse players.
Please welcome our next guest,the Ms, the me, the maestro of
lacrosse training.
Nick Tel, welcome.
Thanks guys.
I appreciate it.
That was a, a great intro.
Hey, Jay, did you just say theMiz?
The ma.
The ma.
He's the maestro.
That might be the dorkiest thingI've ever heard.
Ron, you loved it, Nick.
(04:23):
Poetry emotion.
I'm sorry.
It had to be had guys.
One of the greatest, if not thegreatest.
We just had Jamie Monroe, sowe're getting, he know, he knows
he's great.
He's, he knows he's great.
Jay the, he's a MAs.
All right, Nick really cool tomeet you and great to have you
(04:44):
on tonight.
And one of the things we love todo, you know, hearing about your
lifelong passion for the game isall of us have that lacrosse
origin story.
Like you remember who was, youknow, when did you first learn
about the game?
When did you first develop thatpassion for the game when you
were a little tyke on LongIsland?
So, I, I guess it started, so Istarted in fourth grade, which I
(05:07):
guess is a little late for LongIsland kids.
But I still remember my firststick.
So we were a family friend isJoe De Simone with lacrosse
Unlimit and Rob Rimmer and thoseguys.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
So, so my first stick was a u,like A-A-S-T-X Viper, and it had
the UNC, it had UNC die on it,like the lacrosse.
Really?
Yeah.
So I was, I was a Michael Jordanfan since I was, as long as I
(05:30):
could remember, I wanted to playbasketball, Carolina.
That didn't work out, but Iplayed every sport you could
think of.
Lacrosse, to be honest with,with you, was my least favorite
sport.
And I think that goes into theprerequisite of mastering your
skillset, right?
So from the beginning, you know,you handed me a football, I ran
around people.
You, you put a basketball inhand.
(05:51):
I, I mastered dribbling and Iwas able to use my athleticism
to get to the, to the rim.
Baseball, you know, I was fast.
I was good, good fielder and,and was able to get on base and
I was fast so I could steal baseand stuff like that.
But lacrosse for some reasonchallenged me and it challenged
me early.
It was the kind of the sportthat your athletic athleticism
doesn't shine through until youmaster the stick.
(06:12):
And I really didn't take itseriously.
I had fun doing it, I remember,but I didn't, I didn't love it.
Mm-hmm.
And, and really where I wentthrough is I, I, where, where it
kind of, so in middle school youhad to make the choice of
baseball and lacrosse.
And my dad has a baseballbackground and he told me
whatever sport I choose, youknow, he'll support.
And I, I chose baseball.
(06:34):
And at first, and then a coupletalks with some coaches and, and
you know, some other people,they, they persuaded me back to
the lacrosse journey.
Nice.
Got you.
Back on the straight and arrow,thank goodness.
Yeah.
When I was in se, so when I wasin seventh grade, my mom used to
walk the track and, and Salk andand MacArthur are right next to
each other.
So Salk has a big wall and Iused to hit the wall for 30
(06:54):
minutes and then go shoot for 30minutes while my mom walked the
track.
And between that seventh andeighth grade year, from seventh
to eighth, you know, I was upthere five days a week or an
hour a day and, you know, nice.
When, when I got back in eighthgrade, I kind of started.
Athleticism started to takeover.
So I think that was my, my firstseventh, eighth grade was when I
really started to pay attentionto stick work and really, really
(07:16):
dive in.
And that's when I really startedto enjoy the game.
That's great.
I think it can be tough withyoung kids too, when you have
all these other options.
And lacrosse is challenging,especially when you're young and
back then usually you're playingon these full fields.
And I didn't start till a littlelater than you, but I was
training my son or coaching histeam when he was in second,
(07:37):
third grade.
And just being on that hugefield, they're getting whacked
with a stick.
It can be tough to get kids sometraction and get them feeling
good about it.
Yeah.
And I think you know, we get alot of I, I see it even harder
when you get to seventh, eighthgrade.
So if a kid picks it up late,'cause I, you know, I've been in
California and Dallas, you know,the last 15 years and we, we
(07:58):
recruit kids that are athletesfrom other sports and they
almost get so discouraged eventhough they dominate other
sports.
They get into lacrosse and theysee.
Guys that they know that they'remore athletic than that are way
ahead of them because of thatlacrosse stick.
So you gotta keep them kind ofon the, you know, keep'em
confident enough to get throughthat prerequisite of that, you
know, that one year dedicated togetting that stick stick up to
(08:20):
par.
Right?
Yeah, absolutely.
So I mean, Nick, you mentioned Ithink a couple of folks, but
also, you know, interested inwho some of the important people
were in your life.
As you said, you almost, youalmost went down that boring
baseball track stand aroundsport.
So glad I didn't do that.
But who were the, who were thepeople who influenced you, you
(08:41):
know, in that lacrosse journey?
And obviously you were amulti-sport athlete and you
know, I know in a lot of schoolsyou got guys who coach multiple
sports.
So I'm wondering who the, whowere the people that really
influenced you in your journey?
So, yeah, so I would start withmy dad's the biggest influence.
He's, he was my coach forbaseball and football.
He pushed me really hard.
He was really, really tough onme, and It was, it was tough
(09:04):
when I was a kid.
I look back at it now and Ican't thank him enough.
So I, I'd have to go with my dadfor that.
And then, like I, I call him mysecond dad is, is Scott Rogers'
senior.
So Scotty Rogers the gold from,not Dame, his dad was like a
second dad to me.
He got me into strength andconditioning with Scotty.
So without the strength andconditioning piece, I probably
(09:24):
would've never got recruited.
So he was a big part.
You got Ken Miller who does theLong Island Sting.
You know, we, that was like,club was just starting really to
take off when I was in highschool.
So I, I joined with them and,and that was a, a bunch of guys
from Levittown and Wonton andthen a couple other places in
Long Island.
So that was, travel was justkind of getting a start back
(09:47):
then.
2002.
Yeah.
From what I remember, it wasLong Island.
Long Island Sting was yourNassau County Boys.
And then Team Long Island wasthe Suffolk County.
And that was like Jamie Allenand and Federico.
I think I played for a seasonwith them and then it was just,
it was too far and we had thesting right next door for, to
me.
So but then Joe McDermott was acoach for the Sting Gordon
(10:07):
Purdy.
Oh yeah, yeah.
Gordon Purdy got, was was acoach of mine for a little bit.
Crazy.
I think he threw a a long poleat a ref one game.
Really?
Yeah.
Like javelin through, threw itacross the field.
Wow.
Yeah.
We used to play against him whenhe played for Delphi, so he,
yeah.
Yeah.
He's an OG like us.
Yes.
That's funny.
(10:28):
Warren Pur.
And then my high school coachwas Chris Bergeson who played at
Hofstra.
He was, he, he, he was great forme'cause he wasn't.
Like my other, like, he wasn'tlike my dad, he wasn't like
other coach.
He wasn't like type A.
He was like, he's like kind of,he kind of allowed me to find my
game and, and let me be creativeand, and kind of find my style.
And you know, he, I was a midimy whole entire life.
(10:51):
When I moved, when I playedvarsity as a freshman, I was
underside, so he put me oncrease attack'cause he knew I
could play, but like wasn'tready for maybe, you know,
dodging the bigger guys andstuff like that.
So I was kind of an insidefinisher.
Mm-hmm.
Which, which also sucked becauseJohn Ner was, was a senior at
that year and he played at Navyand John Ner was with the No
look Pass.
So I got case in the body, likeI couldn't catch his pass and he
(11:15):
would get so pissed off of it.
Right.
He, he was actually just here inDallas coaching Culver against
Highland Park and I got catch Ohwow.
Him, we had to catch up withhim, which I haven't seen him
forever, so it was good to catchup with him.
But that's neat.
Coach Ferguson and then my youthcoach, you know, seventh and
eighth when I really started, orsixth and seventh when I really
started loving the game was, wasCoach Bob Ello.
(11:35):
So I've had, I've had a lot ofreally good coaches in, in my
youth days.
That's great.
Awesome.
And as you mentioned, you were alittle undersized coming in
there as a ninth grader and intohigh school, and that it had
started this breakfast clubroutine with another good buddy
of yours.
So why don't you tell us aboutthat story and, and the impact
it had on you?
(11:57):
So, to rewind a little bit,like, I went into high school
wanting to be a football guy.
Like that was my, that was mynumber one sport.
I wanted to play football at thenext level, and I entered high
school as 119 pound kid, so,right.
Wow.
No, I was su I was good infootball and, you know, I was
quick, I was fast, I wasathletic.
I just, you know, the sizecatches up with you in that, in
(12:19):
sports like that.
Right.
So I guess this coach had, agreat deal of I don't know.
Like I, he's a big part of whyI, I got better on both the
lacrosse field and footballfield.
But he just did it in adifferent way.
He, he pretty much told me Iwould never play varsity
football.
And he goes, I would neverstart, I'd never see the field.
You're too tiny.
All, you know, kinda, again, nottype a way, but like, it was
(12:40):
like a different, like I couldhandle guys yelling at me
mm-hmm.
But telling me I couldn't dosomething was a new, and he
would do it very nonchalant andit really pissed me off just
like, yeah, you, you're nevergonna make it.
Oh.
That kind of thing.
That was like, he was sononchalant, like, oh yeah, okay,
10, oh, you're too small, you'renever gonna play by.
I was like, it just drove me.
So me, and we probably could seeyou getting fired up and being
(13:02):
like, okay, it's working.
Alright.
It hit a, it struck a nerve forsure.
So.
So Coach Farney, who was ourfoot, our JB football coach, I
broke my collarbone for freshmanyear of football on jv.
Mm.
And that's when I realized,okay, when I get out of this
sling, I gotta do somethingabout it.
Like, I, I would come home intears to my parents and like,
they would be like, well,crying's not gonna do anything
about it.
(13:23):
Complaining or blaming otherpeople are not gonna do
anything.
Like what's the solution?
So that's where it all started.
It is like, I just was like, allright, well, I'm too small.
What do I have to do?
I gotta hit the weight room.
Mm-hmm.
So Coach Farney would open the,the, like we went, we approach
him and he, he would come inearly and open it up for me and
Scotty Rogers and we would getin there and he'd put us through
a lifting program.
And when I started that, I, youknow, it was tough at first, but
(13:45):
then it became just a part of myday.
So I didn't miss a day in theweight room at five 30 in the
morning after I got the o out ofthat sling for the next four
years.
And I ended up gaining 20 poundsevery off season.
And you know, I was a latebloomer, so by the time I was a
junior I was, you know, one 70and decent sized.
Still kind of small, but.
Strong enough to handle stuff.
(14:05):
Right.
And my athleticism took overfrom there.
So that was a big, a big, thatwas a big part of my success,
Jay.
Great.
Two takeaways that of maybe whyI was not as great a player as I
could have been.
First of all I think I, Ihaven't been 119 pounds since
second grade.
And I don't think I was ever inthe weight room at five 30 in
(14:26):
the morning rbo No.
Yeah.
It's just, it's clear, Jake,it's clear now we know where
greatness comes from.
That's when I get older.
Doesn't come from all those esepeanut butter cup cups you got
by your bedside.
That's good stuff.
And then so Rogers, was itScotty Rogers?
He was the, a big goalie forNotre Dame, right?
Correct.
Yeah.
That's, that's cool.
(14:47):
Scotty's been a friend of minefor a long time.
That's awesome.
So the two of you, and he's a,he's a big guy, right?
Yeah, he is a, he is definitelya big guy, but I would always.
You know, I'd always challengehim on the body weight stuff.
So like Pullups, you know, bigguy long.
Oh, right.
He's hard.
He can't see that dog Pullups as119 pound little guy, so.
Right, right.
We would push each other indifferent things.
(15:08):
He would get me on the bench andI would get him on the, the
pullups.
That's awesome.
That's great.
That's, that's a great lax buddyright there.
And then he would've beenprobably on the team when they
were in the nationalchampionship game, right?
Correct.
Yeah.
Was that, yeah.
That's cool.
That's awesome.
And so let's see.
Oh yeah, so, so Jay who likes tofollow the script is getting
(15:30):
lost.
Well, you know, I just want youto, I'm waiting for him.
It's his, his question trying tostick to the script tonight.
True.
I thought I was wrong.
So he doesn't know what the hellhe's doing.
He just keeps telling you.
That's great.
That's nice.
Zip it.
Zip it.
I got the next question.
So Nick you mentioned a littlebit about travel across,
starting back then.
Was early recruiting going onback then?
(15:50):
Like what was it like and if so,no.
Okay.
If not, then you'd still being alittle undersized, like someone
like Scotty Rogers who wasprobably big back then.
Did you notice a difference?
'cause it's really impressivethat you got to UNC, you know,
with a scholarship.
You know, we know Dylan Malloyfrom Brown.
He was a little undersized, butyou know, he kind of got passed
(16:11):
up at, you know, kind of slippedthrough the cracks a little bit.
So tell us a little bit whatrecruiting was like back then.
So 2003, 2004 or something likethat.
Right.
I graduated 2004.
Yeah.
Okay.
So the recruiting, the recruit,well, 2000, yeah, 2003 would be
my junior, so 2 0 2 2003.
So the recruiting process wasway different than it is now.
(16:33):
Obviously.
It's, it's kind of a crazy thingnow.
I wasn't stressed about I can'ttell you where I was thinking at
that time, but like I, I knowthat I wasn't worried about it.
I knew that someone would findme and all I had to do was
control what I can control, getin the weight room, get bigger,
get stronger, get faster, andthen work on my, on my skills.
So I was not recruited.
I was also, I was kind of likeblind to it.
(16:55):
Like I wasn't, like, my parentsdidn't push it or anything like
that.
They didn't like, it wasn't likeit is today.
With, with the, the parentinfluence, my parents just let
it be, and I guess I didn'trealize it until, so they, they
had the Long Island Empire team,which they don't have anymore,
but the Empire team is prettymuch like a nine tryout thing.
(17:15):
If you make all county, you getlike one tryout off and then you
come to the second round oftryouts and, you know, I saw
some really good guys before me,like the year before Danowski
and those guys and you know,some guys making like, that was
like, like my goal, like makethat long on empire Team.
So I, I, I discussed it with myhigh school coach and I was
(17:35):
playing attack at that time.
And, you know, there's, they'rethree attack and they're gonna
take probably five to the Empiregame.
So you're, you're, you gotta bethe top five.
So I thought I was gonna have abetter chance at moving to MIDI
for the trial, which I did.
Right.
I'm gonna take, you know, eightor nine guys probably.
So I, I changed to midfield andI made it to the last round,
then eventually got asked to beon the team.
(17:57):
And I think that was the biggestbreakthrough for me recruiting
wise, because I wasn't gettingletters or anything like that
until I made that team.
Mm-hmm.
And really it hit when we wentto the games and we were
playing, we were down to the theupstate team.
We were down at half orsomething and I took the huddle
and you had guys like StevenPser gonna Hopkins and.
(18:19):
Some guys gonna, Georgetown andSyracuse, you had Pat Parrot
gonna Syracuse and these guyswere already committed.
And then a lot of other guyswere, you know, there's a bunch
of Carolina guys and they'relike, what, who's, who's
contacting you?
Who's reaching out to you?
I'm like, Nope.
I haven't got a single letter.
But I remember halftime, I, Itook the huddle over and I was
like, you need to step it up.
Like we're the best, you know,we're the best in Long Island.
(18:39):
Let's represent that.
And like, I kind of took aleadership role against guys
that like, we're alreadycommitted that I should Right,
right.
They should probably me like topick, pick it up.
But that's strong island dog.
Yeah.
And I think that was a, I, Iremember letters getting it.
It was like, we like how you ledthat Long Island team and you
were, you were vocal in thehuddle.
It's like, that was a big partof my, my recruiting process is
(19:01):
what I remember.
Right.
I was on that Empire team wayback when I was around and that
was pretty much the only timecoaches saw you.
So interesting.
Yeah.
Nick ne Jay never also misses anopportunity to, you know, tout
his own career.
Well, I didn't mention I wasMidfields of the year also in
Nassau County.
I didn't say that.
And, and he, and he just provesit over and over again.
(19:27):
Nick, you know, I was holdingback.
He's a shameless completeshamelessness.
Connecting with our guest Ron.
We have things in common soNick, it, it is really cool to
hear about, and it seems like,I'm sure this is the kind of
thing you talk to the kids thatyou train all the time.
You know, you're, you're a guywho's not even getting
(19:47):
recruiting letters and then yougo on to North Carolina where
you're a two time all American,a captain Co MVP of the team as
a senior, you know, playing in acouple of NCA tournament you
know, a couple of NCAtournaments.
So, you know, whether you'regetting a letter or not does not
define whether you can and willbe a great player.
(20:10):
But tell us about the decisionto go to Carolina and you talked
about being a Michael Jordan fanand having that first stick with
the Carolina Blue, but what wasthe decision to go to Carolina
and what were some of, you know,your great memories from that
experience?
So, yeah, wanted to go toCarolina as a little kid, so if
they offered me, I would,that's, I was saying yes, and
that's pretty much whathappened.
(20:30):
Right.
So I was talking to Virginia andMaryland.
I was talking to Coddle and, andDom Staria and I got off the
phone with them.
Yeah.
I just set up, I just set upvisits to go to Virginia and
Maryland, and I get off thephone and Coach Hos calls me for
Carolina, he says, so I had togo to committee to get in
Carolina.
My SATs weren't of the best, sothey had to like fight for me to
get in and, and so on.
So I was waiting for hear from'em.
(20:51):
So Coach Hoss called me backliterally right after I got off
the phone with, with those twocoaches.
And he goes, Hey, we got you in.
Do you wanna be a Tar Heel?
And I, I instantly like, yes,like wow.
And so I had to call Coach StarJeba and Coach Coddle back and
tell him that I wouldn't becoming.
And honestly to, to just, youknow, those are tough calls to
make.
Tell my story, I have to tellyou is that I wish I went to
(21:14):
those visits at the very leastbecause I can't tell you that I,
you know, I.
I made my decision on a schoolbased off the best basketball
player to ever play the game.
I didn't base it off.
I didn't base it off.
Who are my coaches for the nextfour years?
Who are the other guys goingthere?
What kind of educate, like whatdo I want to do with the rest of
(21:35):
my life?
Well, what, what's my, what's mymajor?
I made the decision because Iwanted to go to Carolina.
That's it.
I wanted to wear the CarolinaBlue, and I wanted to wear the
number 23, right?
So, I don't know if I would, I,I don't know if I would've been
at Tar Hill if I went to thoseother guy, like Virginia was a
second, like a very second cllike, you know, close in the
running.
I don't think Marilyn was, mytop choices, but I just, I
(21:56):
should have just gone andexperienced something else.
But my Carolina experience was,was great on the lacrosse field.
Not, not what I wanted, not whatI expected.
I, I wanted to win a nationalchampionship, you know, everyone
does.
I think the culture was a littlebit.
Not what I expected,unfortunately.
So, but you know, being atCarolina, being a Carolina alum,
(22:18):
I couldn't be more proud.
Like I, I loved the school, Iloved my buddies that I
graduated with.
I just, the lacrosse experiencewasn't, wasn't what I wanted it
to be, to be honest.
Mm-hmm.
Culture wise?
Like, what was it that waslacking you think, while you
were there?
It was culture wise, I'm, I'mfrom Levittown, blue collar kid.
It wasn't, it was, it was a softculture.
(22:39):
It wasn't tough.
I was more of like in betweenthe lines guides.
I wasn't your best offensiveguy.
I wasn't your best defensiveguy, but I was really good at
both.
And you're gonna get 110% outtame no matter how good the
coaching is or how bad thecoaching is.
Or you know, you, I'm showing upand I'm gonna give you
everything I have.
And I just, the, the, thebiggest thing for me, and it's,
it's not to call out the otherguys that were at Carolina.
(23:02):
It starts from top to bottom,but they weren't all in.
We were there, there was a lotof guys that were half in and,
and a lot of the guys thatstarted were the guys that were
not all in.
And that, for me, I'm okay withlosing as long as I give it my
best effort.
Right.
And when there's, when you're ina team sport and you're, you're
trying to get everyone to givetheir best effort, and half guys
(23:22):
are are just going throughmotions, it's, it's a tough pill
to swallow.
'cause we have the top fiverecruiting class, you know, top,
top 10, recruit, whatever, youknow, we, Carolina always is in
the top recruiting class.
Right.
And for some rea for those fouryears, even when we did make our
periods to my junior and senioryear, we, we underachieved and I
mm-hmm.
It still bothers me that weunderachieved.
(23:43):
That's the only, that's thething that bothers me most is
there's not achieving part.
Right.
I gotcha.
I, I was gonna actually ask you,but I think you, you kind of
alluded to it here, but youknow, while on the top line of
that.
That lacrosse resume, so tospeak.
You know, you're saying, Hey,two time All American Captain
Co, MVP and say tournament, whata, what a career, you know?
(24:07):
But it seems like, you know,there, there was adversity and
difficult times.
So, you know, what did, what didyou learn from all that you
know, both the highs and thelows at Carolina that maybe you
bring with you today as you'reworking with so many young kids?
I learned that leadership isthe, the path less taken.
(24:27):
I think it's a thing that youhave to learn and continue to
learn.
You never end up at being at thetop of leadership.
You're always gonna have tolearn more and, and adapt.
Going from high school, I led byexample 5:38 AM workouts being
the hardest worker in practice.
And other guys bought in.
In college, that doesn't happenas much.
(24:48):
You can't lead by example.
You have to be a little bit morevocal.
And, and I regret not being morevocal with guys and getting
that, you know, getting them inin shape and stuff like that
and, and getting them on one onthe same page.
We tried, I remember.
And I was like, look, you know,and, and it's, I don't talk
about coaches'cause, you know,my coaches were great.
Like, it, it's not that, it'sjust the coaches lost the locker
(25:12):
room.
And for me to be a captain andtry to glue those pieces
together, it just was almostlike an impossible task.
Mm-hmm.
So I, I drive myself crazythinking about what I could have
done differently to get adifferent outcome, but you can
only you know, do so much.
You know, we, we tried to getthe guys to say like, Hey, we're
the guys on the field.
Like, we're the ones playing, itdoesn't matter about who's
coaching us or what.
(25:32):
It's, it's about us.
So let's play for guy next tous.
And we, we tried that thing, itjust.
You gotta put a full on effortfrom the day you step on campus
to the day you leave campus.
And, you know, fall balls wereloose and guys were hanging out
and going out and partying,including myself.
And, and it just wasn't, thewinning a national championship
wasn't the ultimate goal.
(25:52):
It was, it, it just wasn'tthere.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
But that kind of naturalleadership ability for you seems
to have really kind of, thecream was rising at the top, I
guess, ever since that EmpireState game scenario.
And then you were a captain atMacArthur and then, I mean, as
you said, it's, you could, youmust have been a great leader.
They voted you to be one of thecaptains, but if you've got 60,
(26:15):
70% of the, the other guys justrefusing to come along, there's
only so much you can do, Iimagine.
Yeah.
And that's kind of what Ilearned it's led me on the path
of my coaching now to be, to, toallow these kids to understand
that being vocal.
It's hard to get guys to buy inor girls to buy in on the team
(26:35):
and do the things necessary noteven, I don't even talk about
winning.
I talk about maximizingpotential, right?
Right, how do we, what are thelittle small details that give
us an edge over our competition?
How do I maximize my potential?
Whether that is a role that Ihave to take on fully or if I
(26:56):
have to produce a certain amountof, you know, goals or to sit,
or if I have to get ground ballsfor my team.
Like, taking on that role andgoing all in with it.
Not thinking you have to be the,the best player on the team,
but, but take your role.
And I think I learned that morewith the Denver Outlaws than
anything.
I had to play a certain rolethat I wasn't used to playing,
but I was gonna do my best.
(27:17):
I.
Play that role and do my job andlike, that's like Bill Belichick
will bring him in'cause he's atUNC now, which is awesome.
Right.
Do your job and do your job.
Does their job you got, you geta good outcome.
Right.
Controlling what you cancontrol.
Right.
You know, letting go of thewinning or losing, it'll take
care of itself kind of thing.
So, yeah.
(27:37):
So that's interesting.
We transitioned to, uh, JML.
And let's do that.
We'll get into a little bit ofthe mindset.
We'll do a mindset minute
MacBook Pro Microphone- (27:47):
today's mindset Minute comes from one of
Brian Kane's, 10 Principles ofMental Performance Mastery.
Dr.
Rob Gilbert mentored the greatBrian Kane in the sports
performance field.
Brian Kain has worked with CyYoung Award winners, Olympic
Gold medalists, and with theYale Bulldogs men's lacrosse
team in 2018, the year they wonthe national championship.
(28:09):
The principle was just mentionedby Coach Tinel, and it is focus
on process over outcome.
Many coaches and players willtake pause when they hear the
recommendation to not focus onwinning.
Hey, if we don't focus onwinning, we're not gonna be
competitive enough.
Well, three of the mostsuccessful coaches of all time,
(28:32):
Nick Saban, John Wooden.
And Coach Bill Tierney allfocused on process over outcome.
Brian Cain takes a quote fromNick Saban's book, how good do
you want to Be?
In which he said, becoming achampion is not an easy process.
It is done by focusing on whatit takes to get there.
Parentheses, the process not ongetting their parentheses, the
(28:57):
outcome coming from a guy who'swon seven national titles.
That's a powerful statement.
The best coaches and trainers inthe world see the process as a
staircase.
They climb each day staircase.
They reverse engineer from theirlong-term goals, such as winning
a national title back to theirshort-term goals, such as
(29:17):
getting better at rides andclears In today's practice, the
best of the best focus on theoutcome 20% of the time.
While focusing 80% of the timeon today and the steps they must
take today to get the outcomethey desire, the foundation of a
process over outcome mentalityis controlling what you can
(29:39):
control.
Being relentless about focusingon what you can control and
letting go of what you can't asquickly as possible is one of
the fundamentals that eliteperformers possess.
Brian Kane states in his mentalperformance mastery course.
If I could hammer home only onepoint with a client, this would
be it.
Get clarity on controlling whatyou can control to become peak
(30:03):
performers yourself, or as acoach to help your players
achieve their goals.
We must learn how todifferentiate between what we
can and can't control.
When and how this strategy isused.
Well, when we start to see thetendency in ourselves or in our
players to blame things outsideof our control for our
struggles, that's when we useit.
(30:25):
It's our job to realize thatputting time and energy into
things we cannot control iswasting both of those precious
resources.
Focusing on those noncontrollables is a
self-defeating game.
To begin as a player or coach,make a list of everything
non-controllable that you facethat may impact your results or
ability to achieve your goals.
(30:47):
You'll probably think of thingslike the officials, the fans,
the other team, the amount ofplaying time you may be getting
as a player, field conditions,the schedule, et cetera.
Ask yourself or your players,what should you do with all
those things?
If they don't make theconnection themselves, help them
out by saying.
Forget about them.
(31:07):
Instead, focus your time andenergy on what you can control.
The only things you can controlare yourself, your attitude,
your appearance, your effort,your energy, your emotions.
Brian Kane calls that your ape aPE.
Get yourself and your playersfamiliar with their ape.
We all need to realize thatsuccess is determined by how
(31:29):
well we control thecontrollable.
Do that and let the outcome fallwhere it may.
Knowing you did your part byunderstanding the competitive
arena that you are in.
By doing that, you can helpdirect your focus and those of
your players to the process ofperformance.
This knowledge cuts out all theunnecessary elements that most
players focus on when they failto understand the process over
(31:51):
outcome approach and any givencontest on the schedule can be
looked at as a microcosm.
Of the same process coaches andplayers during any lacrosse
game.
To use a Dr.
Rob Gilbert phrase should focuson where their feet are.
That means being in the momentin, intense fashion.
(32:12):
Don't be worrying about what thescore is or what's gonna happen
15 minutes from now.
Focus on getting the next groundball, making the right pass up
the field, and getting that nextgoal and the next one after
that.
And the next one after that.
This knowledge of focusing onwhat you can control and
focusing on the process over theoutcome is super powerful and
(32:33):
will lead to more success thanyou could ever imagine.
Just ask Coach Nick Saban andCoach Bill Tierney, they'll tell
you the same.
Now, we will return to ourinterview and you will find that
interview in process.
And yeah, and I would definitelyimagine all your leadership
skills being tested throughoutthe years has really come full
(32:54):
circle for you as a lacrossetrainer up on these kids.
I mean, it's probably, you cantell them so many real life
stories that you've had that canhelp impact their life, right?
Yeah.
It's all, it all comes from whatI've experienced.
So I've, I've been, you know,I'm gonna turn 39 on on March
10th.
Oh, you're a baby.
And I know, I, you know, it'sfunny though.
(33:15):
I was like, when my dad turned40, I thought he was old as
hell.
You were thinking that I'm ayear away and I feel like I'm 20
still.
So it's pretty, you're nevergonna not feel like you're 20.
I mean, your knees and yourshoulders might not, but like me
and dog are getting really old.
We, we think we're young, youknow, you never really are gonna
feel old in your head.
I'm just gonna look it in my 39years though I've gone through
(33:39):
quite a bit.
So I, I draw on all myexperiences good and bad to help
the kids that are in front of meon a daily basis, Right.
Yeah.
I know after looking at a few ofyour other interviews online
that after Carolina you kind ofwent home to Long Island and
were working for a year or twoand then felt like you weren't
really yourself and that youneeded a change in scenery and
(34:01):
then you move all the way out toCalifornia and you know, as you
described, you went through achallenging and difficult period
of time at that stage.
And then getting through that,getting over that adversity.
I know you're starting to writea book about your experience.
I'm sure it's not just aboutthat experience, but that's kind
of a keystone of it.
So tell us a little bit aboutthat time after Carolina, and
(34:22):
then what got you out toCalifornia?
Well, the book is done.
Oh wow.
I just, you know, we,congratulations.
Last, we're on our last bit ofediting and stuff.
I just had a, a meeting actuallybefore this.
We've got, the book has beenturned down by 72 publishers.
Our, it's just, it, we're not abig four sport.
There's, they don't see enoughaudience for it.
(34:42):
And that's the story of my lifegetting shut down and getting
rejected and stuff like that.
But this book's gonna be verysuccessful.
It's, it's, there you go.
You're not gonna take no for ananswer.
Right.
Oh, I love it.
I'm actually gonna take allthose rejections., I told the
literary agents to send me allthe rejections.
I wanna read'em and I wanna put'em in the book.
'cause when it, when it is, whenit is successful, that's
awesome.
(35:02):
And that's, but that's how I'mright.
You tell me I'm too small.
I'm gonna three be wrong.
That's, it's just like, like Mosome people would be crushed by
that.
Like, I was laughing on the Zoomcall today.
I was like, I was like, this isgreat.
This is exactly what the book'sabout.
It's about right.
Becoming adversity and I I Ilove that.
Right.
That's great.
So, so going back to college I,I graduated with a
(35:26):
communications degree, still notknowing what I want to do in my
life.
And I actually stayed for anextra semester.
The extra semester I get a callfrom a buddy at my from home.
Telling me one of my bestfriends was shot and killed.
Oh gosh.
Sorry man.
That just, wow.
So Sean killed up in Albany, NewYork.
So I graduated, not really, Idon't know, in a, in a, in a
(35:52):
rough way.
I, I got a happy dose of realityin real life.
Right, right.
You know, entering the realworld.
So that happened I wasgraduating, so I had to fly home
and bury my best friend and thenfly back and, you know, get my
diploma.
Mm-hmm.
And then, and then a month lateryou know, will, will, will
(36:15):
Barrow was another good friend.
And that happened a month later.
Oh gosh.
Yeah.
So I buried two really goodfriends within a month's time.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And yeah, so that was the, theheavy, heavy dose of real life.
And, you know, it put me, andI'm not, I look back at this,
I'm not really proud of it, butgetting, you know, I, I got to a
(36:39):
really dark place you know,doing things out of my
character.
Mm-hmm.
I lost my way.
I I kind of escaped throughdrinking and, and other forms of
numbing the pain.
Mm-hmm.
So I was, I was completely lost.
I was working dead end jobs.
Again, it's a gift and a cursefor handling adversity.
(37:00):
Right.
You use your alumni.
Network to get into the realworld and jobs and work up the
corporate ladder, whatever youwant to do.
And I, my, my, my dad's acarpenter by trade, and my mom
was a teacher, so I didn't comefrom a lot of money.
So I wanted to be kind of thebreadwinner.
I wanted to make a lot of moneyyou know, be in the corporate
world, be in finance, whateverit may be in Manhattan.
And you know, I had all thesenetworks that were willing to
(37:23):
help me out.
They knew what I was goingthrough.
They were willing to help meout.
And I turned'em down because Itold'em I wanted to do it
myself.
I wanted to do it on my own.
I didn't take, I didn't takehand me outs.
Now, being in the businessworld, knowing about that, this,
this world is all aboutnetworking, right, right.
Yeah.
So, yeah, so I took a dead endjob selling car insurance at
Geico.
(37:43):
I worked a couple jobs.
Yeah.
So it, it just, it was a time inmy life that I don't like to
talk about.
It was just, it was a darkplace.
I dug, I dug a hole so deep, youknow, that, you know, it was, it
was.
The only way to climb out was tostart over.
Right.
So I decided to, I, I came homeone night and I was disappointed
(38:04):
in what I was doing.
And I told my, it was actuallymy sister.
I told my sister that I had toget out here.
I'm gonna go to California,which is the furthest place away
from New York.
Right.
Leaving three months.
And she said, go, you need tojust go and start over.
So that's, that's what I did.
I I saved a, a little bit ofmoney for the next three months,
and then I drove.
And did you have like anyconnection to California?
(38:26):
No, I had nobody out there.
I don't, I didn't, I mean, Ifound, I found people once I was
out that I didn't even know wereout there.
But yeah.
That's great.
I joined Cross Country withthree other buddies and we
started, it just started over.
That's amazing.
Well, Nick, man, I, I you know,I'm so grateful for you sharing
what you shared.
I, I really do think it'simportant for.
(38:48):
Young kids to understand, youknow, life can be tough and and
you clearly went through somereally challenging times and
it's still so raw for you allthese years later, you know?
And so appreciate you sharing itbecause again, I, I think
sometimes, especially as guysand athletes and tough guys,
we're not supposed to talkabout, you know, those, our
(39:10):
feelings and those things thatreally impacted us.
But I think, you know, there'sso many people who struggle in
different ways in their life andhaving people who have
accomplished what you'veaccomplished despite all of it
you know, it's, it's a, it's animportant story to tell.
So right.
And then I think it probably,it's not easy than I appreciate,
right?
It's got really tough and, butI'm sure it adds such another
(39:30):
layer to your experience thatyou can share with these kids,
right?
That it just makes you that muchstronger.
I mean, it's, really amazing.
But go ahead Ron.
I'm, I'm cutting you off.
When you're ready to give yournext question.
Well, not only that, you cut meoff when I was trying to tell
Nick at a very emotional momentin our, in our Ron LAX history,
(39:52):
just trying to be positive here,Jay.
Good lord.
Yeah.
But anyway, Nick, thanks forsharing that, man.
Really appreciate it.
Well, I, I didn't, I didn'tshare it for so long.
I, I buried it Yeah.
A long time.
I I actually started sharing itright bef, you know, right about
when Covid hit, that's when Istarted opening up because I, I
saw these kids struggling on adeeper level than what we were,
(40:16):
I mean, what parents wereseeing, what teachers were
seeing, what coaches wereseeing.
It gave me the avenue to talk tothem on a deeper level and kind
of share my experiences, youknow, once I figured out what
was going on with them.
And a lot of kids were in verydark places right.
It's the thing I think we'retaught to like tamp all that
stuff down, right?
So it's interesting how it wascoming up to you as you're
(40:37):
seeing these kids go throughjust a bigger struggle than most
people would ever have gonethrough.
So that's, that's pretty cool.
So, so Nick, is it a, isn't itan exaggeration to say that, you
know, you, you go out toCalifornia and, and is is
finding physical training andlacrosse training, did that kind
of get you back, get your mojoback in terms of things you
(41:01):
loved and now you were sharingthings you loved with other
people?
You know, what role did thatplay in kind of your rebirth, so
to speak?
It, it did eventually when Ifirst moved out, I just needed
to find a job and pay for rent.
Yeah.
Right, right.
So I actually, I moved toCalifornia and the, the story
goes like this.
I I got, I took a job sellingsolar panels, door to door
(41:24):
canvassing doors.
Lacrosse was in the rear viewmirror for me.
I never thought I would pick upa stick again, to be honest.
Wow.
I was so burnt out after collegethen that happened and I was
just, you know, I didn't thinkabout it.
I just thought about what'snext.
And yeah, I was too busyclimbing my way outta the hole
that I dug for myself.
So it really wasn't, wasn'tthere.
(41:45):
But I canvass at her house andI, I thank this lady for yelling
at me this close to my face.
She, you know, stoppedsoliciting at my door and like,
yell, I mean, cursing.
Every curse word came outta ofher mouth.
And I sat across.
So she finally left, and then Iwent across the street and sat
down.
I was like, I don't want to dothis right.
I don't wanna do this.
So I call my mom and I go, mom,I, I'm gonna quit this job.
(42:08):
And, you know, she's obviouslyhas more wisdom than I do at
that age.
And she told me, don't quituntil you find another job.
I call my other buddy and he islike, we're drinking Corona's on
the beach in Huntington Beach.
And I go, yep, I'm quitting.
So I hand my clipboard to theguy, I go, I go drink on the
beach in, in Huntington Beach,California.
And I wake up on, you know, onthe weekend and Monday comes
(42:31):
around, I'm jobless and I gotall these bills to pay and I'm
like, I'm screwed.
So I, I I hired a headhunter,got me a couple of corporate
interviews.
And this is where this comesback full circle as I'm sitting
in the interview.
And at this time I actually, Iactually, I actually interviewed
for a job in Manhattan that Igot.
It was nine interviews long.
It was for like a financialadvising.
(42:52):
And I got the job out 300applicants.
It was like three people got gotasked to, to come on board and I
turned it out because I wasgonna California.
But I just, I was in acompetitive mode of like seeing
if I can get this high end job.
So I was really good atinterviewing.
I, I knew what to tell people,what they wanted to hear, and so
on and so forth.
So I was at this Fortune 500company and the last question
(43:14):
she asked, she goes, where doyou see yourself in five to 10
years?
And I, I sat there for a minuteand I thought, I really thought
about it on the beach drinkingCoronas.
Holy kidding.
And so I really thought aboutthe question for a second, and
I, and that's when it was kindof, that's, that was like my
aha, aha moment of like, what doI love?
What do I, I love strength andconditioning and speed because
it helped me when I, when I hadno answers, that was the only
(43:38):
answer that got me to where Iwanted to go.
So I got my strength andconditioning.
So she asked me, where do yousee yourself in five to 10
years?
And I go, and, you know, theanswer is I see myself climbing
up the corporate ladder, being amanager, a leader of a team,
and, and you know, whatever thatis for that company.
And I told her, I said, in fiveto 10 years I see myself owning
my own gym.
And she goes, okay, well it wasnice to meet, right?
(44:02):
My head hunter calls me andgoes, what the, what are you
whatcha doing?
I go, I found out what I wannado.
I'm gonna get, I'm gonna go getmy strength and conditioning
certifications.
I'm gonna get my speed.
And I really, my, my, my giftwas speed change direction,
stuff like that.
So I really want to dive intothe speed world, and that's what
I did.
So I I went to the first gymthat I applied to.
(44:23):
I went into it in, in like a, a,a meetup with them, and they
hired me on the spot.
They didn't hire me because Ihad my strength and speed
certification.
That was one that was, you know,it's a cherry on top, but my
resume read All America UNC,lacrosse.
Lacrosse, lacrosse.
So they're like, we have a bunchof lacrosse athletes that need a
lacrosse specific trainer.
I was like, I don't, I don't, Idon't do that.
(44:45):
I, and they're like, wellthat's, that's, that's your
resume and that's what we needyou for.
So if you don't wanna do that,then we don't have a job for
you.
So I I took it and startedcoaching both boys and girls
lacrosse.
And then That's funny.
That's kind of when I, you know,the, I, I talk about this.
You couldn't get away from it.
You couldn't get away from it.
It, it came after you.
I got away, I got away for itfor six years, but it came back
(45:07):
into my life Right.
When I needed it.
I, I, right, right.
Tend to tell people, you know,like we call it the medicine
game and yeah, I never reallypaid attention to that or
understood that, but I 100%believe that it was the perfect
antidote for me at that time.
Right.
It got me back, it got a stickback in my hand.
I was making$10 an hour.
I was eating subway for lunchand dinner.
(45:28):
So I was by, at the time it was$5 foot longs I was close to be.
So I would order a$5 foot longand cut it in half, you know,
have half for lunch and half fordinner.
Barely have enough gas in my carto get to and from work.
But I loved what I was doing.
I was coaching kids, I wasteaching'em speed, teach'em
strength, getting some, some youknow, some hours logging
(45:50):
strength and speed, and thendoing the lacrosse on the side
and building the lacrosse thing.
And then I start, you know,start getting these kids really
good at lacrosse.
And I'm, I'm starting to gainmomentum and then I go to a
couple games and watch.
And then I started, you know, Iwas coaching a club team.
I was coaching high school, andthen I'm like on the sideline
and I'm like getting morenervous than the kids are.
And I'm like, those butterfliesare like, I want to, I wanna
(46:11):
compete again.
I wanna play again.
MacBook Pro Microphone-3 (46:13):
He wants to play again.
He wants to compete again, butit's been a while since his UNC
days.
It's the age old question thathaunts every athlete sooner or
later, and that question is,does this old jalopy still have
gas in the tank to find out?
Tune in next week.
Until we meet again.
Here's to hoping you find thetwine.
(46:36):
We're signing off here at theget the lax scoop.
Thanks again so much.
We will see you the next time.
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Introducing… Aubrey O’Day Diddy’s former protege, television personality, platinum selling music artist, Danity Kane alum Aubrey O’Day joins veteran journalists Amy Robach and TJ Holmes to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. Join them throughout the trial as they discuss, debate, and dissect every detail, every aspect of the proceedings. Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise, as only she is qualified to do given her first-hand knowledge. From her days on Making the Band, as she emerged as the breakout star, the truth of the situation would be the opposite of the glitz and glamour. Listen throughout every minute of the trial, for this exclusive coverage. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes present Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial, an iHeartRadio podcast.
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