March 19, 2025 • 32 mins
In this episode of 'Get the Lax Scoop,' hosts Big Dawg and Jaybird continue their interview with Nick Tintle, a two-time UNC All-American midfielder, MLL Champion, and extraordinary skills trainer. Nick shares his inspiring journey from a collegiate athlete to a professional lacrosse player, detailing his struggles, setbacks, and ultimate triumphs. He recounts how his passion for coaching reignited his desire to compete, leading to an eventual MLL championship with the Denver Outlaws at age 30. Additionally, he discusses his venture into entrepreneurship, owning multiple gyms, and ultimately founding the Lacrosse Barn, a premier lacrosse facility in Dallas, Texas. Tune in to hear how Nick's relentless dedication and the support of various mentors helped shape his remarkable career.
00:00 Introduction to Get the Lax Scoop
00:23 Meet the Hosts and Guest
00:59 Welcome Back and Interview Setup
01:26 Nick Tintle's Journey: From Coaching to Playing Again
03:12 The Comeback: Trials and Triumphs
06:30 Joining the Denver Outlaws
09:36 Challenges and Setbacks
11:44 Pushing Through Injuries
16:23 Unexpected News and Determination
17:02 Playoff Journey and Full Circle Moments
17:44 Championship Victory and Emotional Toll
20:38 Opening the Lacrosse Barn in Dallas
21:57 Entrepreneurial Challenges and Growth
25:40 Support and Serendipity
26:49 Reflecting on the Journey
31:30 A New Beginning in Dallas
NEW BOOK!
Inside the Recruiting Game: Insights From College Lacrosse Coaches
-Available on Amazon.com as an Ebook and paperback
Links to training videos:
Master The 5 Best Dodges From the Wing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_7LDOcQQ6Q&t=88s
Blazing Shots... on the Run!
https://youtu.be/XiptPlM63oQ
Check us out...
On YouTube @jaymcmahonlax23
On Instagram @jaymcmahonlax23
On Facebook @: facebook.com/jmcmahonlax23. Page name: Jay McMahon Lacrosse
Jules Heningburg: https://thelaxlab.com/
Check out!... Coach Tintle's Lacrosse Barn:
https://g.co/kgs/eXedCXf
SuccessHotline with Dr. Rob Gilbert on Ironclad & Apple Podcasts
Brian Cain Daily Dominator on Apple Podcasts
Lacrosse Charities Mentioned in S2 E36:
https://www.4thefuturefoundation.org/
https://www.harlemlacrosse.org/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
It's time for Get the LackScoop, a podcast bringing you
all the people and stuff youshould know in the game of
lacrosse.
We take lack seriously, butourselves, not so much.
Join host Big Dog and Jaybirdand the biggest names in the
game brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training.
(00:23):
Ron Doglish, the big dog, was acollegiate football and lacrosse
player at Brown.
He was also an assistantlacrosse coach and the executive
director of the SportsFoundation.
And Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, athree time All American
midfielder at Brown.
He was the captain of the U.
S.
Junior National Team and is thefounder of JML.
(00:43):
And Joining us in the studio,Steve Grisolfi, who's collegiate
lacrosse career statisticsequals one goal against
Dartmouth brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training, helping the
next generation of lacrosseplayers get to the next level
MacBook Pro Microphone (01:00):
Welcome back everyone for another
episode of Get the Lack Scoop.
We are super excited to releasethe second portion of our
interview series with two timeUNC, all American MLL Champion
and Skills trainerextraordinaire.
Nick Tinel.
If you have not listened to thefirst installment, we highly
recommend you go back and do soas it ties in beautifully with
(01:21):
this episode.
You'll find this interview inprogress.
Tend to tell people, you know,like we call it the medicine
game and yeah, I never reallypaid attention to that or
understood that, but I 100%believe that it was the perfect
antidote for me at that time.
Right.
It got me back, it got a stickback in my hand.
I was making$10 an hour.
(01:43):
I was eating subway for lunchand dinner.
So I was by, at the time it was$5 foot longs I was close to be.
So I would order a$5 foot longand cut it in half, you know,
have half for lunch and half fordinner.
Barely have enough gas in my carto get to and from work.
But I loved what I was doing.
I was coaching kids, I wasteaching'em speed, teach'em
strength, getting some, some youknow, some hours logging
(02:06):
strength and speed, and thendoing the lacrosse on the side
and building the lacrosse thing.
And then I start, you know,start getting these kids really
good at lacrosse.
And I'm, I'm starting to gainmomentum and then I go to a
couple games and watch.
And then I started, you know, Iwas coaching a club team.
I was coaching high school, andthen I'm like on the sideline
and I'm like getting morenervous than the kids are.
And I'm like, those butterfliesare like, I want to, I wanna
(02:27):
compete again.
I wanna play again.
And that kind of led me back tomy, my journey back to the
professional ranks.
Yeah, that's great.
Yeah, that you're cueing usright into the next question.
This is beautiful'cause that,that was the question where we
can see in your resume where,you know, you took a break from
lacrosse you didn't playcompetitively yourself for a
number of years and wasn't surehow many, but I'm sure you can
(02:50):
tell us exactly six or eight.
But then there you are playingfor the Denver Outlaws and and
then I knew, you know, just fromlooking into some of these other
interviews that you had thiskind of burning desire'cause you
hadn't won that championship.
So, so tell us that whole story,like why you wanted to get into
it and then those first coupleyears and then you finally hit
pay dirt, you know, in 2018.
(03:12):
So, yeah, I, I mean it all cameback from coaching.
So I'm watching the kids playand I'm just getting a burn
desire to play again.
So I I was like, you know what,I'm at a gym.
I'm working out, I'm in great,great shape.
Yeah, I haven't, you know, Ididn't play competitively for
six years.
You know, the stick was in myhand a little bit for, you know,
so four years, didn't touch astick.
The next two years I had a stickin my hand, but I was just
(03:33):
coaching or a year.
And then I was like, you knowwhat, why not?
Why not just go try out?
So 2014, I tried out for theChesapeake Bay Hawks okay.
Not having any, at that time, mygoal was just to step on an MLL
field, just to step on aprofessional field and play.
Right?
So just get on a roster, play ina game, and that's it.
I wanted to play in one game.
(03:53):
I didn't even have to play aseason like that was just the,
the simple goal.
Mm-hmm.
So I worked my ass off.
I went to Chesapeake Bay Hawksat that time they had Matt
Abbott and then Reynolds, whojust played for the USA team as
D Mids.
And I knew that I was gonna be ad Middy at this point because,
you know, the offensive stuff.
You know, I, I don't, I didn'tsee myself competing.
I was a little rusty and stufflike that, but I knew I could
(04:15):
play defensive transition scoreif I had to.
So I, I went out for defensivemillion and I knew who was ahead
of me, so I didn't have highexpectations, but I was gonna
give it my best shot.
I made it to the last round oftryouts there.
Coach Coddle calls me.
He was with the s he calls me,he goes, we're gonna find you as
spot on this team.
He had a great tryout, all thisstuff.
The guys on the team I playedagainst and in college and, you
know, they, they knew me andthey're like, like I took a
(04:35):
stick that like, I found, like,it was like an old dusty stick.
Mm-hmm.
It was taped all the way up.
Like, it was just disgusting.
Guys were like, looking at melike, what is that?
What so I made it the lastround.
I got cut the last round.
But it, it, it was, it hard?
Yeah, it was hard, but I waslike, you know what?
I, I just proved myself afternot playing for six years
competitively.
I'm playing with some of thebest guys in the world.
I'm like, that's a pretty,that's a pretty good indication
(04:58):
that you can make it if youwant.
Keep pursuing this.
Right.
I went back, I went back to workand I, I didn't think about it.
But they had this LXM ProLeague.
In California with the XanderRitz and Max Ritz and Kyle
Harrison was in Peter Baum.
Oh yeah.
Some high level players, but itwas more of like a globe trotter
style thing.
So I, so I call up Xander andand, and Kyle Harrison, they,
(05:20):
they, they welcome me with openarms.
They needed to fill out teamsand stuff.
So I show up and play and Iplayed for the next year or two
for that.
And it was super fun.
'cause it wasn't every weekend.
It wasn't like a red eye in ared eye out.
It was, you know, we went topretty cool air.
Like we went to Utah, we playedin California.
We played at like really coolvenues.
And it just got me back into theswing of things like get, just
(05:43):
like, get the rust off and playhigh level lacrosse.
But it wasn't serious and it wasjust super fun.
Right.
It just, it, it made me fall inlove with the sport again.
It wasn't, it wasn't, at thattime, it wasn't about winning
championships, it was just aboutbeing back in that, that.
Locker room with the, with theguys and, and playing at a high
level and, and having fun withit.
I just wanted to find my desirefor it again.
(06:04):
And that's what kind of AlexMpro did.
Now, Alex Pro folded in 2015 or2016.
So I, at that point now, nowit's like, all right, I still
haven't stepped on aprofessional lacrosse field
though.
Like, Alex M Pro was aprofessional globe truck, but it
wasn't the professional league.
It wasn't the mm-hmm.
Well, it wasn't, you know, thattype of league.
So I was like, you know what?
(06:26):
I made it this far, you know,I'm in good shape.
Let me, let me go try out foranother team.
So the closest team toCalifornia is Denver Outlaws.
So they have, every year theyhave an open tryout for anyone
and everyone.
There was some 50 year olds outthere checking off bucket lists,
you know, things, right.
There was some high level likekids right outta college that
just wanted to, you know, didn'tget drafted but wanted to play.
(06:47):
Right?
So it was a mix of talent.
103 guys.
BJ O'Hara, John Cohen and TonySeman are in the middle.
They bring us in.
All the other guys not like, notstretching.
I'm stretching like a madman'cause I'm getting older.
So we, we stand around, there's103 guys and literally BJ O'Hara
goes, we're gonna be honest withyou, we're taking one or two
(07:07):
guys to camp and that's it.
So I look around, I'm like, Igotta a little hill to tie.
Wow.
But here's where I separatemyself.
It's like, this is where I knewmy role was gonna be.
I knew who was on that Denversteam.
I knew the mids, I knew who Ihad to go against.
Mm-hmm.
What was the d mids lookinglike?
So they separate I goal here,defense here, mids there,
(07:28):
defensive mids over here.
Me and four other guys, threeother guys go to the d MIDI
section.
Now I know, all right, I'mcompeting against this.
And hopefully they, they need,you know, some depth at the D
MIDI position.
So anyway, I, I show myathleticism, my ball out.
I do really, really well.
They take me and one other guythat played at Delaware and play
EmPro Pro on the.
(07:49):
And and I, that's crazy.
Well, at camp, I actually, I'mplaying and I'm kind of like,
you know, I'm the older guy atcamp, one of the older guys on
the team.
And how old were you at thispoint?
30.
Right.
So you're coming in, you're,you'd be like a rookie,
basically 30-year-old league,right?
Right.
At 30.
That's, that's amazing.
So I, I'm playing against DrewSchneider and he crosses me up
(08:11):
and I, like, I didn't wanna hurtanyone.
I, like, I, I was still like thelow man on the to pole, so I
didn't wanna, like, I wanted tobe a part of the team when I
wasn't even on the team yet,right?
Mm-hmm.
So Coach Seaman, channel.
You're allowed to crosscheck inthis fucking league.
Will you crosscheck this?
So the next time I go out, Iwrap my stick around Drew
Schneider.
I'm like, I'm apologizing tohim, but I broke my stick across
(08:33):
his back.
He flew the ball, comes out, Imake a good play, whatever.
And, and Tony, soon wass, like,that's all we're talking about.
I'm like, I ended up making thesquad, I ended up making the
team.
I had a great tryout.
I play in, and again, this ismy, my, so I, I've reached my
goal.
I'm gonna play in an MLO game.
Mm-hmm.
That first game I have to coverJimmy Bidder as an, at, like,
(08:54):
it's short stick on a, an attackman.
Great.
You won't see man.
Right.
But, but first grade assignmentfor my first game in pro.
So I'm, I'm nervous now.
I gotta guard an attack man.
I did pretty well.
We won our first game.
It was an awesome experience towalk out on in, you know, Denver
Bronco Stadium.
It was like, you're playing inan FL stadium and you know, that
(09:14):
was cool.
A year old rookie.
I didn't play for six years,whatever it may be.
And it was a cool comebackstory.
And then.
And then, then you're, thenyou're a part of the team and
you're like, all right, we wannawin.
Yeah.
We ended up losing the next twoor three games, and then I find
myself not, they didn't travelme, so they call me like, Hey,
we're gonna leave you off theroster.
We're gonna travel some otherguys and try some other guys and
try to switch this thing around.
(09:36):
Now you guys all know MLL likewould go into like college
season, and then they would,they would, they would get
college kids after theygraduated.
So they brought in MattKavanaugh and Jack Kelly and
Goal, and they brought in acouple other pieces brown team
that year that had a good run.
And all of a sudden I'm watchingfrom home and they're turning
the season around and they're,you know, everybody in the
league is.
(09:57):
Eight and eight or you know,nine and seven.
Everyone's like close.
So like it comes down to likethe last game and they were so
bad, but they fought the, sothey get the fourth seat going
into playoffs and I'm watchingat home and they win their first
playoff game.
And then they are playing in Ithink it was Kennesaw State.
They were playing Ohio machine.
And Scotty Rogers is in gold forOhio.
And Steve Walden also I playedhigh school with, is playing for
(10:19):
Ohio machine.
So I'm watching the game andthey're killing the outlaw.
They're up by like 11 goals athalftime, but then they have a
rain delay.
And the rain delay was like atwo, two and a half hour rain
delay.
Denver comes back out and clawsthe way back in and wins the
game.
Holy cow.
So, wow.
I'm sitting there at home beinglike, I was a part of a team
that just won a championship.
Now I'm like never wanted, neverwon in high school.
(10:42):
I've never won in college.
I've never wanted to pro.
It's like the only thing missingis my rent.
So I, I was like, after I gotlike, you know, I was done, I
got cut, I was like, know what?
I did it, I made it back to thepro level.
I'm good.
Like how many, right?
How many people could say as a30-year-old rookie, they made a,
a pro team?
Like, that's not, it's not areal, it's not, doesn't happen
often, right.
So, yeah, for sure.
But the problem is, is that nowI don't have a ring and I just
(11:05):
saw my team win.
So now I have a differentobsession.
Oh, I still haven't done that.
So that goes on my mirror in mybathroom win MLL title or win a
a pro title.
So I got back to work.
I didn't know if the outlawstaff was gonna call me back.
I didn't know if I was in theirfuture plans, but they had
different plans for me.
They thought they, you know,they got my feet wet year one.
(11:25):
And they invited me back to campand I pull my hamstring in Camp
Tony Seaman.
I, I thought it was over.
I thought it was done.
And Tony Seaman comes in thelocker room and goes, you gonna,
you, you gonna be all right bySaturday?
I was like, in a week, like, theonly thing I can say without
losing my job is yes, I'll beready.
So I was like, yeah, I'll beready.
Now I own the gym at this time.
(11:45):
So I have my chiropractor, so heworks on me two hours, three
hours a day to get me, geez,practice some sort of percentage
so I could at least run a littlebit.
And I play in the first game andthen play in the second game,
third game.
And you know, my hamstringstarts to heal a little bit each
time I play in the full season.
Where the best team in the MLLwe're number one seed.
We already are in playoffs.
(12:06):
It's coming down to the lastgame against Rochester Rattlers.
So this is 2017.
It's my second year in theleague.
We playing Rochester Rattlersand there's a ground ball scrum
and I get pushing behind.
I land on my wrist, I roll overmy wrist and I palm my elbows,
snapping my wrist in half.
Oh man.
I come off to the sideline and Itell the trainer, I'm like, I
snapped my wrist in half.
(12:26):
And he's like, he looked at it,he goes, seems all right to me.
I'm like, okay it up.
Play the rest of the game.
Play the rest of the game.
I knew it was bad.
We were in Rochester, we flewback.
Now you could tell the state ofthe league we flew into Iowa.
For a layover.
We're in this little right Iowaairport, and I go up to my
trainer and I put my hand rightin front of his face.
I'm like, you sure this ain'tbroken?
(12:48):
And it was right a balloonprobably with the atmospheric
pressure change in the, in theairplane.
Totally.
I, I knew it was broken thewhole time.
So anyway, we, we, we, we landin Denver and I go to see Dr.
Ol, who's our, our surgeon.
And he looks at it, he goes,yeah, he definitely broke it.
He goes, let's look at it.
I tore every ligament in mywrist.
I broke my back away.
I broke a bunch of other things.
(13:08):
So you know, this is rightbefore playoffs.
Now I'm, I'm obsessed withwinter ring.
We're the number one seed.
We had the best team ever, bestdoctor I've ever been a part of.
I'm right there.
And now I'm, so they sit me downand I pleaded my case.
I go, I, I told him, I was like,I will do anything to plan.
I, I was crying on the phonewith Coach Seaman.
He could tell you I was begging.
I was like, I'll sign a releasewaiver that, you know, you guys
(13:30):
are not liable for me, you know,doing any more damage.
I'll sign whatever you want.
They finally just, you know,talked to me, talked some sense,
and me like, you could lose theuse of your hand and in your
profession, that's not gonna begood.
So mm-hmm.
We sat down and then you know,we, I, I went to the first game.
They flew me out to the firstgame.
We played Rochester again.
We beat them.
We, we go play Ohio machine in arematch in 2017 at the Star in
(13:54):
Dallas.
Oh wow.
And I'm sitting on the sidelineand I can't tell you how hard
that was to sit on the sideline.
Yeah.
Watch your watching that catchyour game when all you want to
do is be a part of somethinglike that.
Right.
Probably the hard, one of thehardest things, you know,
besides the other things Ishared, that was the second
hardest thing in my life at thatpoint.
Mm-hmm.
And I watch'em lose, we lose bytwo or three goals or something.
(14:15):
It was a close game, but welost, we go in the locker room,
there's some, there's some olderguys, Matt Bley and guys like
that, that are thinking abouthanging up the cleats and.
Moving on.
And I, I'm, I'm pleading, I'mlike, one more year.
One more year, guys.
Let's, let's run it back onemore year.
We gotta get, like, you know,they just lost the game.
They're not in that mode tolisten to me asking because I
didn't play.
But it's one of those situationswhere I think if I played, I
(14:37):
could have had a, an outcome onthat game, A different outcome.
That game now, obviously, Idon't know, could have been
worse.
We don't know.
But you know, guys came back, Icame back for one more year,
2018.
Now I'm 32 years old.
We're struggling all year.
We're up and down.
We're in the mix, but not, youknow, we're not the team.
We were the year before.
We're trying to figure outpieces and, and move some things
around.
We got Chris Guttier in the, inthe draft, which helped us.
(14:58):
And you know, we, we startedturning things around, but now
we're in the middle of theseason and Jack Kelly's playing
for you at team USA and he tearshis ACL.
That's our star goal.
Yeah.
So now I'm like, no.
Yeah, right.
Just lost our starting goalie.
So anyway, it wasn't as big of adeal as, as, as it may seem,
because our backup goalie wasalso Team Canada's goalie.
(15:18):
Dylan Ward.
Oh man.
Yeah.
Geez, not a bad backup.
Yeah, you can't, you can't beatthat.
Dylan Wards, you know, you know,he's got a lot of race.
He's legit.
Right.
So, anyway, long story short, Iknow I'm going far with this,
but No, this is great.
But it's a workers' comp claimfor my wrist.
So in the offseason, I, Irehabbed that at my own gym and
(15:39):
I got it back to like 70%.
I just pretty much duct taped itor just like, you know, wrapped
it.
Every game they call me and theysay, Hey, we're gonna close your
case because you haven't gone tothe doctor, you haven't got
surgery or whatever.
So I go, well, I'm gonna have toget surgery in the off season
for sure.
I just postponed it because Ididn't want to be late to the
next season.
So they're like, all right, gosee your, go see your surgeon.
(16:00):
And and he'll send us, and thisis like during the season, or
this is right before our lastgame, so we're playing.
Oh, my plays, it's our last gameof the season.
Whoever wins that game gets abid to the playoffs.
Oh man.
Yeah.
So I have to play in that game.
So that week before I go to thesurgeon and I, I get a, a, an
X-ray and stuff, and he comes inthe room and he look at him.
(16:22):
I'm like, what's up?
He goes, I got good news.
Bad.
Don't, don't tell me you'reabout to tell me.
He goes, you want, you want thebitter or bad for somebody?
Just gimme the news.
He goes, your, your wrist healedfrom last year.
He goes, however, somehow youbroke it in another spot this
year.
Oh, okay, we're gonna have toshut you down.
And I'm like, stop.
This conversation is not gonnaleave this room.
(16:42):
No one from Denver Outlaws isgonna find out about this and
I'll be back on Monday orwhenever to have surgery, but
I'm not, fuck, you're notfucking telling a word.
And to say it lightly, Imight've threatened his life.
I wasn't gonna, I wasn't sittingout no matter what.
Right.
Just didn't tell, I didn't tellanyone on the team.
I didn't tell the coaches.
I wrapped it up a little bittighter for Atlanta Blaze.
We ended up winning.
Get into playoffs.
(17:03):
And this is the funny thingabout lacrosse, Atlanta Blaze.
This is where it comes fullcircle.
Atlanta Blaze was the team.
I got cut year one in 2016.
That was the last game I playedas a professional.
When I first got there, we beatthe, this, the first round of
playoffs was against theChesapeake Bay Hawks, I believe.
They were the number one seed.
And the team favored to wineverything.
(17:23):
It's the team that cut me in2016.
We ended up beating them by onegoal, or maybe even overtime,
game to get to the championshipgame.
And then we end up playing theRochester Rattlers, who I broke
my wrist against in 2017 and gotshut down.
So, geez, the, the story comesfull circle where I, where I'm
kind of checking these thingsoff and, and you know, it's a
storybook ending.
(17:44):
We end up winning in 2018.
We beat Rochester.
They beat us twice during theyear they were stacked.
My job responsibility was NedCrotty.
A toured an award winner.
Yeah.
Attacking a short, I was like,you know, I was like, that's
insane.
Don't mess this up for the team.
Right.
But I remember.
The road that that took the, theemotional toll that took on me
(18:08):
and just my body.
Like I broke my ribs during thatyear as well.
Like I fractured geez ribs.
Like it was UNC on UNC crimetoo.
It was Austin Piani for the LongIsland lizards.
I got buddy passed, so he lefthis attack man and destroyed me.
Oh my God.
Made him buy me drinks all nightthat night.
I was like, dude, right.
It almost killed me.
But anyway, storybook ending.
(18:29):
I won my championship, I got myring.
And it was just, it was one ofthe most special things I've
ever been a part of, but it wasemotionally draining and
physically draining.
Obviously I'm older now andlike, like I was only three
years in the league, but I brokea lot of bones.
I went coach of getting cut,breaking my wrist, making it,
not making it going back andforth.
It was tough, but I mean, thatjourney was, was crazy.
It was, it was awful.
How did it feel to hold thatchampionship trophy?
(18:51):
So that's what I'm getting do.
So I get, so we win the game,they're making the announcement,
whatever, and I'm staying withthe team.
The captains are go getting, go,getting the trophy.
And, and I'm gonna say this, theDenver Outlaws organization was
the best.
Best team I've ever played forBest Locker Room.
That's cool.
It was just a really tight knitgroup.
And that first game in 2016,coach Seman called me Tinkle.
(19:13):
So became a thing in 2018, likeget Tinkle a Ring.
'cause they all knew my storyand how much I was like putting
in this and what I needed andyou know, was trying to get
that.
That is great.
So get tinkle a ring, get tinkleA ring was like our motto for a
little bit.
And then so you had Eric LawDrew Schneider and Matt Bockett
as our three captains who werethe best leaders of men that
(19:33):
I've ever been around in, in thesport of lacrosse.
Wow.
That's cool.
They get the trophy first andthey turn around and instantly
go call me up.
They go, Tinel, and they, theygive it to me and I raise it
above my head and I almostdropped that shit right on my
head.
My wrist, my wrist was so, ohyeah.
And I, I, how it was, I almostliterally dropped my head.
(19:53):
It was just one of the best.
One of the best days of my lifeto come from what I went
through.
Right.
Work all the way back and havethis just fucking roller coaster
of a ride.
Right.
Physically and finally getthere.
Like I, I watched the game youknow, play back on, on, on
YouTube or whatever and I, I, Ijust go to the end'cause I
wanted to see,'cause I was onthe field, I wanted to see what
(20:15):
happened and so I don't reallyremember it.
And I just collapsed.
And then Matt Kavanaugh likepicks me up and hugs me.
'cause he knew how much.
But it, it, it was, that's theonly thing I was living for.
I was running a business, I wasdoing all this stuff, but the
only thing I needed was the ringand the trophy.
Right.
I put every ounce of energy intothat, that I could.
That's amazing.
That's what a great story.
That is awesome.
(20:36):
Yeah.
Amazing stuff, Nick.
And let's let's flash forward alittle bit to, you know, what
seems like another, puttingeverything into the next, the
next thing you're doing.
Yeah.
I mean, another incredibleprofessional accomplishment.
And I know you'd said, you know,you'd owned some gyms so I guess
you had met that.
That other goal that you hadtold that you know, that person
(20:56):
you interviewed with, you, you,you proved that out to be true,
but then it seems like thislacrosse barn facility that
you've opened up in Dallas isjust an amazing facility and an
amazing.
Kind of concept that you'vedeveloped there with, you know,
as Jay said earlier, like 3.3acres, two buildings, 80,000
(21:17):
square feet of space.
And I, and I've actually neverheard Jay of a, of a place
that's just lacrosse, that's,that's that big and in the
hotbed of Dallas, Texas, youknow, the lacrosse hotbed a, a
lacrosse only facility.
So so tell us about, you know,the journey to open that
facility.
And Dallas lacrosse is gettingbig.
(21:38):
I mean, it may not be LongIsland or Maryland, but it's, it
is getting bigger and bigger.
Oh, no, I, I, I get it, butit's, it's, it's kind of cool,
right?
That Yeah, totally stone's aboutthe growth of the game because
you, you wouldn't expect thatsomething like that would be in
Dallas.
So, but, but Nick tell us thejourney of of getting to that
incredible facility.
So, I.
(21:58):
I told that woman on thatinterview in five years, five to
10 years, I'd owned a gym.
I owned a gym in two years afterthat, right?
So I owned, just to be clear,just to be clear, two years.
Two years, it took me, and thatwas a blessing.
So the, the Hickman family, Iowe them, I owe them so much.
They took me under their wing.
They, they helped me find faithagain.
(22:20):
So I owe them a lot.
They owned the gym.
They were, they, they were afootball background.
Kevin was a football player inthe NFL.
They took a risk on me to be alacrosse guy.
They paid me a little bit moremoney than the first gym.
I was making$30 an hour insteadof$10 an hour.
I was starting to climb up theladder a little bit and, and,
and kind of climb up outta thathole that I dug myself.
So again, I was loving what Iwas doing, but I was starting to
(22:40):
gain some traction andreputation for, for lacrosse.
So we had an 8,000 square footgym one day, and I'm telling'em
like, Hey, I need a raise.
Like I brought in a lot ofpeople, all this stuff.
So one, she goes, all right,let's set up a meeting tomorrow.
Kevin was on speakerphone.
He was at modern day high schoolcoaching football, and he was
the athletic director there.
And so he, he's on speakerphone.
I'm sitting there and they'relike, out nowhere.
They just go, we're gonna giveyou the gym.
(23:02):
And I was like, I was, I waspreparing to negotiate$5 on my,
on my hourly wage, and then allof a sudden I'm a gym owner,
right?
So again, my life comes fullcircle everywhere we go.
So they took me under way and Icall'em like, they're my second
family.
I still talk to'em.
They saw the barn.
(23:23):
They're, they're like, they,it's crazy.
What, what, what They're,they're like, I can't believe
you've done this.
They're so proud of me.
And, you know, it, it all startswith them.
So I have to give them a lot ofkudos.
But yeah.
That's awesome.
They, so 8,000 square foot gym,I didn't look at the numbers.
The, the gym was doing, it washealthy.
It wasn't losing money, but itwasn't making any money.
So I took it over and that wasmy.
(23:45):
I didn't look at numbers, Ididn't look at anything.
I just, I'm, I'm a gym owner,I'll figure it out.
Right.
And that was a tough process ofbecoming an entrepreneur and
becoming an owner.
And I had to learn a lot.
And I learn, I learn things thehard way.
It's just my story.
I, I learn'em trial and error,whether it's good or bad.
I learn and I just keep, youknow, stacking days, getting 1%
better, whatever you wanna callit.
I just, I show up and I, I, Icredit myself for my work ethic.
(24:09):
That's, I just show up.
And I, you know, at that gym, Iwas there 14 hours a day for the
first five years.
Wow.
So I think we made 147,000 ayear, like that first year that
like 10 years, like a coupleyears down the road, we're close
to 750,000.
But that gym was all sports.
Wow.
We did football, we didlacrosse, we did soccer, we did
everything.
We did a lot of strength,condition, speed.
(24:31):
So that time in the lacrosseworld in California, a lacrosse
only gym would've never worked.
Right.
And then.
So I, I sit down our, our leaseis over.
I have to come up with somemoney to renegotiate the lease
and also a down payment and allthis stuff.
And, you know, we figure it out.
But I sit down with the landlordfor that building and she goes,
(24:52):
we're gonna take the, because wewere, we were crushing it at
that point.
So I was like, I want to do a 10year deal.
She goes, before you go anyfurther, she goes, we're gonna
take the, the building back forour own use.
And I was like, oh my gosh.
Alright, well I don't have a gymanymore and this is still, this
is while I'm playing.
So I have the emotionalrollercoaster of owning my
business and losing my building.
And there's no vacant buildingsthat I found or could find.
(25:15):
And I'm sitting there at oneday, you know, in my brain going
one thing, coaching on autopilotin some, some way, coaching the
kids.
And we had a big garage door andthe parents used to sit out
there and watch their kids whileI was training.
And I'm sitting there and I'mlike, looking at the gym and how
successful it's, it's like it'sbursting from the seams.
The, the, the whole gym ispacked.
And this guy comes up to me and,it's got Brett Berry, who I owe
(25:37):
another, you know, so much too.
He comes up to me, he goes, youever think about going bigger?
And I was like, funny youmentioned that.
And he goes, he found, had a, hefound a building.
It was an old gold gym.
It used to be a a grocery store.
And I went and go and seen itand it's 21,000 square feet.
And I'm like, man, am I ready togo this big?
And at that point it was reallybig for me.
(25:58):
So I took the leap of faith.
I did it.
He helped me all the way throughit.
And he helped me with every, youknow, I, I met some real like
angels in my And who, who wasthis guy?
Some random guy on the street.
Just came up to you?
Oh, Brett.
Brett Barry.
I coached his, I coached hissons actually.
Okay.
And he, you know, he just helpedme through that real estate deal
to get that vacant building inup by, by Rancho Center,
(26:21):
margarita High School.
And gotcha.
So you had a little relationshipwith him.
Kind of thing.
Yeah.
I built relationship because Itook care of his kids and
everything, and then he helpedme and, you know, you know,
Brett actually passed he, hepassed the cancer, but you know,
oh boy, he's another angel thatsomeone sent me.
Right.
Wow.
Along the journey.
(26:41):
I get emotional about him too,because he was such a, you know,
such, such an important role ofany of this.
Right.
Good.
I should, I should rewind alittle bit.
When I was at this 8,000 squarefoot gym that Kevin and Maria
gave me mm-hmm.
I worked there for a year as a,as a coach.
And I never realized the exit Igot off and the, the week, maybe
(27:03):
two weeks after I, I tookownership, I get off the exit
and I realize that the exit isnumber 88, which is my best
friend that got shot and killedwas his football number.
Oh man.
88 has followed me everywhere.
And I'll, I'll go into thatmore, but.
Just, I was getting on, I, hewas leading me back on the right
path the whole time.
So he was with, I believe he'swith me.
(27:25):
I know that sounds foofy, butpeople that have experienced
that will know what I'm talkingabout.
Yeah.
I see 80 eights everywhere andI, that's the only way I know
that I'm doing the right thingand on the right path.
That was cool.
So I moved the 21,000 squarefoot gym.
I negotiate a hell of a deal inCalif, Southern California.
A 21,000 square foot gym isexpensive.
Especially.
(27:45):
Yeah.
I negotiated a deal for$20,000 amonth because they were gonna
knock it down in five years andredevelop it and make retirement
homes or something.
But the, the city of Coto andDoug were fighting it.
So I come in, in five years andsay, Hey, look, it, it gives me
five more years to run a gym.
Right?
That's the way I looked at it.
So I'll take five years and I'llfigure it out when I get there.
(28:06):
They did such a good job offighting it.
The construction company wentaway.
So after four and a half years,I renegotiate, I'm, I'm opening
up renegotiation deals, and theygo, okay, you know, you know
it's yours if you want it, butwe'll send you the lease
agreement.
And it went from$20,000 to$47,000 a month in a contract.
And I go, well, that's not gonnawork.
And they're like, well, sell us,send us a counter offer.
(28:27):
I go$20,000.
And they're like, that's notgonna work.
So I was like, oh, then I'mgonna, then I I, and this is,
this is right at the end ofwinning the championship and the
business.
Oh man.
Pretty well.
And this is another crossroad ofmine where I'm like, what am I
gonna do next?
I wanted to start a family, youknow, I got married.
And we're just figuring out thatSouthern California as a coach
(28:49):
and my, my wife does, you knowdoes hair.
So we don't, you know, to livein Southern California.
It's beautiful, but it.
We're living paycheck topaycheck, mostly because it's so
expensive.
Right.
So we started thinking aboutfuture plans.
So I finally went back to alumniweekend at Carolina this was two
years ago.
And I was looking at buildingspace about 5,000 square feet
(29:10):
warehouse to own my own littlething and have a strength coach,
a speed coach, and myself, andjust do it on a smaller scale.
Mm-hmm.
Get back, towin myself a littlebit more instead of, you know,
at one point I had 32 employeesand I just was over it.
I was, like I said, from playingand doing that up the business.
I was, I was tired.
I was, I was tired.
So I wanted downsize and do myown thing and have some more
(29:31):
freedom and travel and start myown family and stuff like that.
So I was looking in NorthCarolina.
First time I went back to NorthCarolina in 14 years since my,
you know, I got that news.
I just, I associated that badtime with UNC.
So I never I distanced myselffrom it and never went back.
I went to alumni weekend to lookat Billings,'cause I was gonna
look at North Carolina or SouthCarolina to move.
(29:51):
I was so pissed at myself fornot going back.
'cause that place so amazing.
Right.
It is a beautiful place.
And, and I also, I, I regret'cause I had to go back and
thank Coach Joe Brushy.
Yeah.
Brushy came in the year after Igraduated.
So he was, he was the coach whenI was there for next semester.
That was his first year.
(30:12):
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
I never played for him, but hecame in after my senior year.
Yeah.
So when I got that news, I waslost.
And this is going back and I'mkind of getting off tail, but I,
I should say this because CoachBrey helped me in a really tough
situation.
I was, I don't know what I wasgonna do, but I wasn't gonna do
(30:32):
anything good.
Whether that was pick a fightjust to get in a fight.
Like I didn't, I was off the, Iwas off the rail'cause I just
didn't know what, how to dealwith that shock.
Mm-hmm.
He sat me down.
I can't tell you if we talkedfor 10 minutes or two hours.
I was.
Kind of just all over the place,but he somehow, you know, he's
been through some things in hislife too, and he was able to
yeah, communicate with me atthat level and really understand
(30:56):
what I was going through at thatmoment and Right.
Kinda, you know, he, he walked,he, he held me back from the
ledge.
He got me off the ledge a littlebit, right.
So I had to go back and thankhim.
So I went to alumni weekend andI pulled him aside, got
emotional, thanked him.
I don't even know if heremembers, but you know, he was
another person that I needed atthat time.
So, anyway, long story shortwith that, but so I was looking
(31:18):
at small, so Nick, Joe and Iwere were roommates when he was
coaching at Brown many yearsago.
Absolute standup guy.
Amazing, amazing, great guy.
Yeah.
He is a, he is a great humanbeing and a great coach.
So, yeah, so I was in lookingfor smaller buildings and I get
a call from my now investor inDallas.
He goes, I got this place.
(31:39):
And I didn't know who he was.
You know, I researched and heplayed the cross played at a
high level, played at the prolevel.
Has done well for himself, buthe calls me and goes, I got a
place you gotta look at.
I'm like, I'm sorry, who isthis?
I'm sorry, who is this?
MacBook Pro Microphone-2 (31:50):
Yeah.
Who is this?
Right?
Is it your guardian angel or amystery man reaching out of
nowhere?
Is this any way to create thefirst ever lacrosse barn?
The premier lacrosse facility inall the world?
I don't know, but if you're likeme, you sure are curious.
(32:10):
Tune in next week to find out.
Until we meet again.
Here's to hoping you find thetwine.
We're signing off here at theget the lax scoop.
Thanks again so much.
We will see you the next time.
It's time for Get the LackScoop, a podcast bringing you
all the people and stuff youshould know in the game of
lacrosse.
We take lack seriously, butourselves, not so much.
Join host Big Dog and Jaybirdand the biggest names in the
game brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training.
(00:23):
Ron Doglish, the big dog, was acollegiate football and lacrosse
player at Brown.
He was also an assistantlacrosse coach and the executive
director of the SportsFoundation.
And Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, athree time All American
midfielder at Brown.
He was the captain of the U.
S.
Junior National Team and is thefounder of JML.
(00:43):
And Joining us in the studio,Steve Grisolfi, who's collegiate
lacrosse career statisticsequals one goal against
Dartmouth brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training, helping the
next generation of lacrosseplayers get to the next level
MacBook Pro Microphone (01:00):
Welcome back everyone for another
episode of Get the Lack Scoop.
We are super excited to releasethe second portion of our
interview series with two timeUNC, all American MLL Champion
and Skills trainerextraordinaire.
Nick Tinel.
If you have not listened to thefirst installment, we highly
recommend you go back and do soas it ties in beautifully with
(01:21):
this episode.
You'll find this interview inprogress.
Tend to tell people, you know,like we call it the medicine
game and yeah, I never reallypaid attention to that or
understood that, but I 100%believe that it was the perfect
antidote for me at that time.
Right.
It got me back, it got a stickback in my hand.
I was making$10 an hour.
(01:43):
I was eating subway for lunchand dinner.
So I was by, at the time it was$5 foot longs I was close to be.
So I would order a$5 foot longand cut it in half, you know,
have half for lunch and half fordinner.
Barely have enough gas in my carto get to and from work.
But I loved what I was doing.
I was coaching kids, I wasteaching'em speed, teach'em
strength, getting some, some youknow, some hours logging
(02:06):
strength and speed, and thendoing the lacrosse on the side
and building the lacrosse thing.
And then I start, you know,start getting these kids really
good at lacrosse.
And I'm, I'm starting to gainmomentum and then I go to a
couple games and watch.
And then I started, you know, Iwas coaching a club team.
I was coaching high school, andthen I'm like on the sideline
and I'm like getting morenervous than the kids are.
And I'm like, those butterfliesare like, I want to, I wanna
(02:27):
compete again.
I wanna play again.
And that kind of led me back tomy, my journey back to the
professional ranks.
Yeah, that's great.
Yeah, that you're cueing usright into the next question.
This is beautiful'cause that,that was the question where we
can see in your resume where,you know, you took a break from
lacrosse you didn't playcompetitively yourself for a
number of years and wasn't surehow many, but I'm sure you can
(02:50):
tell us exactly six or eight.
But then there you are playingfor the Denver Outlaws and and
then I knew, you know, just fromlooking into some of these other
interviews that you had thiskind of burning desire'cause you
hadn't won that championship.
So, so tell us that whole story,like why you wanted to get into
it and then those first coupleyears and then you finally hit
pay dirt, you know, in 2018.
(03:12):
So, yeah, I, I mean it all cameback from coaching.
So I'm watching the kids playand I'm just getting a burn
desire to play again.
So I I was like, you know what,I'm at a gym.
I'm working out, I'm in great,great shape.
Yeah, I haven't, you know, Ididn't play competitively for
six years.
You know, the stick was in myhand a little bit for, you know,
so four years, didn't touch astick.
The next two years I had a stickin my hand, but I was just
(03:33):
coaching or a year.
And then I was like, you knowwhat, why not?
Why not just go try out?
So 2014, I tried out for theChesapeake Bay Hawks okay.
Not having any, at that time, mygoal was just to step on an MLL
field, just to step on aprofessional field and play.
Right?
So just get on a roster, play ina game, and that's it.
I wanted to play in one game.
(03:53):
I didn't even have to play aseason like that was just the,
the simple goal.
Mm-hmm.
So I worked my ass off.
I went to Chesapeake Bay Hawksat that time they had Matt
Abbott and then Reynolds, whojust played for the USA team as
D Mids.
And I knew that I was gonna be ad Middy at this point because,
you know, the offensive stuff.
You know, I, I don't, I didn'tsee myself competing.
I was a little rusty and stufflike that, but I knew I could
(04:15):
play defensive transition scoreif I had to.
So I, I went out for defensivemillion and I knew who was ahead
of me, so I didn't have highexpectations, but I was gonna
give it my best shot.
I made it to the last round oftryouts there.
Coach Coddle calls me.
He was with the s he calls me,he goes, we're gonna find you as
spot on this team.
He had a great tryout, all thisstuff.
The guys on the team I playedagainst and in college and, you
know, they, they knew me andthey're like, like I took a
(04:35):
stick that like, I found, like,it was like an old dusty stick.
Mm-hmm.
It was taped all the way up.
Like, it was just disgusting.
Guys were like, looking at melike, what is that?
What so I made it the lastround.
I got cut the last round.
But it, it, it was, it hard?
Yeah, it was hard, but I waslike, you know what?
I, I just proved myself afternot playing for six years
competitively.
I'm playing with some of thebest guys in the world.
I'm like, that's a pretty,that's a pretty good indication
(04:58):
that you can make it if youwant.
Keep pursuing this.
Right.
I went back, I went back to workand I, I didn't think about it.
But they had this LXM ProLeague.
In California with the XanderRitz and Max Ritz and Kyle
Harrison was in Peter Baum.
Oh yeah.
Some high level players, but itwas more of like a globe trotter
style thing.
So I, so I call up Xander andand, and Kyle Harrison, they,
(05:20):
they, they welcome me with openarms.
They needed to fill out teamsand stuff.
So I show up and play and Iplayed for the next year or two
for that.
And it was super fun.
'cause it wasn't every weekend.
It wasn't like a red eye in ared eye out.
It was, you know, we went topretty cool air.
Like we went to Utah, we playedin California.
We played at like really coolvenues.
And it just got me back into theswing of things like get, just
(05:43):
like, get the rust off and playhigh level lacrosse.
But it wasn't serious and it wasjust super fun.
Right.
It just, it, it made me fall inlove with the sport again.
It wasn't, it wasn't, at thattime, it wasn't about winning
championships, it was just aboutbeing back in that, that.
Locker room with the, with theguys and, and playing at a high
level and, and having fun withit.
I just wanted to find my desirefor it again.
(06:04):
And that's what kind of AlexMpro did.
Now, Alex Pro folded in 2015 or2016.
So I, at that point now, nowit's like, all right, I still
haven't stepped on aprofessional lacrosse field
though.
Like, Alex M Pro was aprofessional globe truck, but it
wasn't the professional league.
It wasn't the mm-hmm.
Well, it wasn't, you know, thattype of league.
So I was like, you know what?
(06:26):
I made it this far, you know,I'm in good shape.
Let me, let me go try out foranother team.
So the closest team toCalifornia is Denver Outlaws.
So they have, every year theyhave an open tryout for anyone
and everyone.
There was some 50 year olds outthere checking off bucket lists,
you know, things, right.
There was some high level likekids right outta college that
just wanted to, you know, didn'tget drafted but wanted to play.
(06:47):
Right?
So it was a mix of talent.
103 guys.
BJ O'Hara, John Cohen and TonySeman are in the middle.
They bring us in.
All the other guys not like, notstretching.
I'm stretching like a madman'cause I'm getting older.
So we, we stand around, there's103 guys and literally BJ O'Hara
goes, we're gonna be honest withyou, we're taking one or two
(07:07):
guys to camp and that's it.
So I look around, I'm like, Igotta a little hill to tie.
Wow.
But here's where I separatemyself.
It's like, this is where I knewmy role was gonna be.
I knew who was on that Denversteam.
I knew the mids, I knew who Ihad to go against.
Mm-hmm.
What was the d mids lookinglike?
So they separate I goal here,defense here, mids there,
(07:28):
defensive mids over here.
Me and four other guys, threeother guys go to the d MIDI
section.
Now I know, all right, I'mcompeting against this.
And hopefully they, they need,you know, some depth at the D
MIDI position.
So anyway, I, I show myathleticism, my ball out.
I do really, really well.
They take me and one other guythat played at Delaware and play
EmPro Pro on the.
(07:49):
And and I, that's crazy.
Well, at camp, I actually, I'mplaying and I'm kind of like,
you know, I'm the older guy atcamp, one of the older guys on
the team.
And how old were you at thispoint?
30.
Right.
So you're coming in, you're,you'd be like a rookie,
basically 30-year-old league,right?
Right.
At 30.
That's, that's amazing.
So I, I'm playing against DrewSchneider and he crosses me up
(08:11):
and I, like, I didn't wanna hurtanyone.
I, like, I, I was still like thelow man on the to pole, so I
didn't wanna, like, I wanted tobe a part of the team when I
wasn't even on the team yet,right?
Mm-hmm.
So Coach Seaman, channel.
You're allowed to crosscheck inthis fucking league.
Will you crosscheck this?
So the next time I go out, Iwrap my stick around Drew
Schneider.
I'm like, I'm apologizing tohim, but I broke my stick across
(08:33):
his back.
He flew the ball, comes out, Imake a good play, whatever.
And, and Tony, soon wass, like,that's all we're talking about.
I'm like, I ended up making thesquad, I ended up making the
team.
I had a great tryout.
I play in, and again, this ismy, my, so I, I've reached my
goal.
I'm gonna play in an MLO game.
Mm-hmm.
That first game I have to coverJimmy Bidder as an, at, like,
(08:54):
it's short stick on a, an attackman.
Great.
You won't see man.
Right.
But, but first grade assignmentfor my first game in pro.
So I'm, I'm nervous now.
I gotta guard an attack man.
I did pretty well.
We won our first game.
It was an awesome experience towalk out on in, you know, Denver
Bronco Stadium.
It was like, you're playing inan FL stadium and you know, that
(09:14):
was cool.
A year old rookie.
I didn't play for six years,whatever it may be.
And it was a cool comebackstory.
And then.
And then, then you're, thenyou're a part of the team and
you're like, all right, we wannawin.
Yeah.
We ended up losing the next twoor three games, and then I find
myself not, they didn't travelme, so they call me like, Hey,
we're gonna leave you off theroster.
We're gonna travel some otherguys and try some other guys and
try to switch this thing around.
(09:36):
Now you guys all know MLL likewould go into like college
season, and then they would,they would, they would get
college kids after theygraduated.
So they brought in MattKavanaugh and Jack Kelly and
Goal, and they brought in acouple other pieces brown team
that year that had a good run.
And all of a sudden I'm watchingfrom home and they're turning
the season around and they're,you know, everybody in the
league is.
(09:57):
Eight and eight or you know,nine and seven.
Everyone's like close.
So like it comes down to likethe last game and they were so
bad, but they fought the, sothey get the fourth seat going
into playoffs and I'm watchingat home and they win their first
playoff game.
And then they are playing in Ithink it was Kennesaw State.
They were playing Ohio machine.
And Scotty Rogers is in gold forOhio.
And Steve Walden also I playedhigh school with, is playing for
(10:19):
Ohio machine.
So I'm watching the game andthey're killing the outlaw.
They're up by like 11 goals athalftime, but then they have a
rain delay.
And the rain delay was like atwo, two and a half hour rain
delay.
Denver comes back out and clawsthe way back in and wins the
game.
Holy cow.
So, wow.
I'm sitting there at home beinglike, I was a part of a team
that just won a championship.
Now I'm like never wanted, neverwon in high school.
(10:42):
I've never won in college.
I've never wanted to pro.
It's like the only thing missingis my rent.
So I, I was like, after I gotlike, you know, I was done, I
got cut, I was like, know what?
I did it, I made it back to thepro level.
I'm good.
Like how many, right?
How many people could say as a30-year-old rookie, they made a,
a pro team?
Like, that's not, it's not areal, it's not, doesn't happen
often, right.
So, yeah, for sure.
But the problem is, is that nowI don't have a ring and I just
(11:05):
saw my team win.
So now I have a differentobsession.
Oh, I still haven't done that.
So that goes on my mirror in mybathroom win MLL title or win a
a pro title.
So I got back to work.
I didn't know if the outlawstaff was gonna call me back.
I didn't know if I was in theirfuture plans, but they had
different plans for me.
They thought they, you know,they got my feet wet year one.
(11:25):
And they invited me back to campand I pull my hamstring in Camp
Tony Seaman.
I, I thought it was over.
I thought it was done.
And Tony Seaman comes in thelocker room and goes, you gonna,
you, you gonna be all right bySaturday?
I was like, in a week, like, theonly thing I can say without
losing my job is yes, I'll beready.
So I was like, yeah, I'll beready.
Now I own the gym at this time.
(11:45):
So I have my chiropractor, so heworks on me two hours, three
hours a day to get me, geez,practice some sort of percentage
so I could at least run a littlebit.
And I play in the first game andthen play in the second game,
third game.
And you know, my hamstringstarts to heal a little bit each
time I play in the full season.
Where the best team in the MLLwe're number one seed.
We already are in playoffs.
(12:06):
It's coming down to the lastgame against Rochester Rattlers.
So this is 2017.
It's my second year in theleague.
We playing Rochester Rattlersand there's a ground ball scrum
and I get pushing behind.
I land on my wrist, I roll overmy wrist and I palm my elbows,
snapping my wrist in half.
Oh man.
I come off to the sideline and Itell the trainer, I'm like, I
snapped my wrist in half.
(12:26):
And he's like, he looked at it,he goes, seems all right to me.
I'm like, okay it up.
Play the rest of the game.
Play the rest of the game.
I knew it was bad.
We were in Rochester, we flewback.
Now you could tell the state ofthe league we flew into Iowa.
For a layover.
We're in this little right Iowaairport, and I go up to my
trainer and I put my hand rightin front of his face.
I'm like, you sure this ain'tbroken?
(12:48):
And it was right a balloonprobably with the atmospheric
pressure change in the, in theairplane.
Totally.
I, I knew it was broken thewhole time.
So anyway, we, we, we, we landin Denver and I go to see Dr.
Ol, who's our, our surgeon.
And he looks at it, he goes,yeah, he definitely broke it.
He goes, let's look at it.
I tore every ligament in mywrist.
I broke my back away.
I broke a bunch of other things.
(13:08):
So you know, this is rightbefore playoffs.
Now I'm, I'm obsessed withwinter ring.
We're the number one seed.
We had the best team ever, bestdoctor I've ever been a part of.
I'm right there.
And now I'm, so they sit me downand I pleaded my case.
I go, I, I told him, I was like,I will do anything to plan.
I, I was crying on the phonewith Coach Seaman.
He could tell you I was begging.
I was like, I'll sign a releasewaiver that, you know, you guys
(13:30):
are not liable for me, you know,doing any more damage.
I'll sign whatever you want.
They finally just, you know,talked to me, talked some sense,
and me like, you could lose theuse of your hand and in your
profession, that's not gonna begood.
So mm-hmm.
We sat down and then you know,we, I, I went to the first game.
They flew me out to the firstgame.
We played Rochester again.
We beat them.
We, we go play Ohio machine in arematch in 2017 at the Star in
(13:54):
Dallas.
Oh wow.
And I'm sitting on the sidelineand I can't tell you how hard
that was to sit on the sideline.
Yeah.
Watch your watching that catchyour game when all you want to
do is be a part of somethinglike that.
Right.
Probably the hard, one of thehardest things, you know,
besides the other things Ishared, that was the second
hardest thing in my life at thatpoint.
Mm-hmm.
And I watch'em lose, we lose bytwo or three goals or something.
(14:15):
It was a close game, but welost, we go in the locker room,
there's some, there's some olderguys, Matt Bley and guys like
that, that are thinking abouthanging up the cleats and.
Moving on.
And I, I'm, I'm pleading, I'mlike, one more year.
One more year, guys.
Let's, let's run it back onemore year.
We gotta get, like, you know,they just lost the game.
They're not in that mode tolisten to me asking because I
didn't play.
But it's one of those situationswhere I think if I played, I
(14:37):
could have had a, an outcome onthat game, A different outcome.
That game now, obviously, Idon't know, could have been
worse.
We don't know.
But you know, guys came back, Icame back for one more year,
2018.
Now I'm 32 years old.
We're struggling all year.
We're up and down.
We're in the mix, but not, youknow, we're not the team.
We were the year before.
We're trying to figure outpieces and, and move some things
around.
We got Chris Guttier in the, inthe draft, which helped us.
(14:58):
And you know, we, we startedturning things around, but now
we're in the middle of theseason and Jack Kelly's playing
for you at team USA and he tearshis ACL.
That's our star goal.
Yeah.
So now I'm like, no.
Yeah, right.
Just lost our starting goalie.
So anyway, it wasn't as big of adeal as, as, as it may seem,
because our backup goalie wasalso Team Canada's goalie.
(15:18):
Dylan Ward.
Oh man.
Yeah.
Geez, not a bad backup.
Yeah, you can't, you can't beatthat.
Dylan Wards, you know, you know,he's got a lot of race.
He's legit.
Right.
So, anyway, long story short, Iknow I'm going far with this,
but No, this is great.
But it's a workers' comp claimfor my wrist.
So in the offseason, I, Irehabbed that at my own gym and
(15:39):
I got it back to like 70%.
I just pretty much duct taped itor just like, you know, wrapped
it.
Every game they call me and theysay, Hey, we're gonna close your
case because you haven't gone tothe doctor, you haven't got
surgery or whatever.
So I go, well, I'm gonna have toget surgery in the off season
for sure.
I just postponed it because Ididn't want to be late to the
next season.
So they're like, all right, gosee your, go see your surgeon.
(16:00):
And and he'll send us, and thisis like during the season, or
this is right before our lastgame, so we're playing.
Oh, my plays, it's our last gameof the season.
Whoever wins that game gets abid to the playoffs.
Oh man.
Yeah.
So I have to play in that game.
So that week before I go to thesurgeon and I, I get a, a, an
X-ray and stuff, and he comes inthe room and he look at him.
(16:22):
I'm like, what's up?
He goes, I got good news.
Bad.
Don't, don't tell me you'reabout to tell me.
He goes, you want, you want thebitter or bad for somebody?
Just gimme the news.
He goes, your, your wrist healedfrom last year.
He goes, however, somehow youbroke it in another spot this
year.
Oh, okay, we're gonna have toshut you down.
And I'm like, stop.
This conversation is not gonnaleave this room.
(16:42):
No one from Denver Outlaws isgonna find out about this and
I'll be back on Monday orwhenever to have surgery, but
I'm not, fuck, you're notfucking telling a word.
And to say it lightly, Imight've threatened his life.
I wasn't gonna, I wasn't sittingout no matter what.
Right.
Just didn't tell, I didn't tellanyone on the team.
I didn't tell the coaches.
I wrapped it up a little bittighter for Atlanta Blaze.
We ended up winning.
Get into playoffs.
(17:03):
And this is the funny thingabout lacrosse, Atlanta Blaze.
This is where it comes fullcircle.
Atlanta Blaze was the team.
I got cut year one in 2016.
That was the last game I playedas a professional.
When I first got there, we beatthe, this, the first round of
playoffs was against theChesapeake Bay Hawks, I believe.
They were the number one seed.
And the team favored to wineverything.
(17:23):
It's the team that cut me in2016.
We ended up beating them by onegoal, or maybe even overtime,
game to get to the championshipgame.
And then we end up playing theRochester Rattlers, who I broke
my wrist against in 2017 and gotshut down.
So, geez, the, the story comesfull circle where I, where I'm
kind of checking these thingsoff and, and you know, it's a
storybook ending.
(17:44):
We end up winning in 2018.
We beat Rochester.
They beat us twice during theyear they were stacked.
My job responsibility was NedCrotty.
A toured an award winner.
Yeah.
Attacking a short, I was like,you know, I was like, that's
insane.
Don't mess this up for the team.
Right.
But I remember.
The road that that took the, theemotional toll that took on me
(18:08):
and just my body.
Like I broke my ribs during thatyear as well.
Like I fractured geez ribs.
Like it was UNC on UNC crimetoo.
It was Austin Piani for the LongIsland lizards.
I got buddy passed, so he lefthis attack man and destroyed me.
Oh my God.
Made him buy me drinks all nightthat night.
I was like, dude, right.
It almost killed me.
But anyway, storybook ending.
(18:29):
I won my championship, I got myring.
And it was just, it was one ofthe most special things I've
ever been a part of, but it wasemotionally draining and
physically draining.
Obviously I'm older now andlike, like I was only three
years in the league, but I brokea lot of bones.
I went coach of getting cut,breaking my wrist, making it,
not making it going back andforth.
It was tough, but I mean, thatjourney was, was crazy.
It was, it was awful.
How did it feel to hold thatchampionship trophy?
(18:51):
So that's what I'm getting do.
So I get, so we win the game,they're making the announcement,
whatever, and I'm staying withthe team.
The captains are go getting, go,getting the trophy.
And, and I'm gonna say this, theDenver Outlaws organization was
the best.
Best team I've ever played forBest Locker Room.
That's cool.
It was just a really tight knitgroup.
And that first game in 2016,coach Seman called me Tinkle.
(19:13):
So became a thing in 2018, likeget Tinkle a Ring.
'cause they all knew my storyand how much I was like putting
in this and what I needed andyou know, was trying to get
that.
That is great.
So get tinkle a ring, get tinkleA ring was like our motto for a
little bit.
And then so you had Eric LawDrew Schneider and Matt Bockett
as our three captains who werethe best leaders of men that
(19:33):
I've ever been around in, in thesport of lacrosse.
Wow.
That's cool.
They get the trophy first andthey turn around and instantly
go call me up.
They go, Tinel, and they, theygive it to me and I raise it
above my head and I almostdropped that shit right on my
head.
My wrist, my wrist was so, ohyeah.
And I, I, how it was, I almostliterally dropped my head.
(19:53):
It was just one of the best.
One of the best days of my lifeto come from what I went
through.
Right.
Work all the way back and havethis just fucking roller coaster
of a ride.
Right.
Physically and finally getthere.
Like I, I watched the game youknow, play back on, on, on
YouTube or whatever and I, I, Ijust go to the end'cause I
wanted to see,'cause I was onthe field, I wanted to see what
(20:15):
happened and so I don't reallyremember it.
And I just collapsed.
And then Matt Kavanaugh likepicks me up and hugs me.
'cause he knew how much.
But it, it, it was, that's theonly thing I was living for.
I was running a business, I wasdoing all this stuff, but the
only thing I needed was the ringand the trophy.
Right.
I put every ounce of energy intothat, that I could.
That's amazing.
That's what a great story.
That is awesome.
(20:36):
Yeah.
Amazing stuff, Nick.
And let's let's flash forward alittle bit to, you know, what
seems like another, puttingeverything into the next, the
next thing you're doing.
Yeah.
I mean, another incredibleprofessional accomplishment.
And I know you'd said, you know,you'd owned some gyms so I guess
you had met that.
That other goal that you hadtold that you know, that person
(20:56):
you interviewed with, you, you,you proved that out to be true,
but then it seems like thislacrosse barn facility that
you've opened up in Dallas isjust an amazing facility and an
amazing.
Kind of concept that you'vedeveloped there with, you know,
as Jay said earlier, like 3.3acres, two buildings, 80,000
(21:17):
square feet of space.
And I, and I've actually neverheard Jay of a, of a place
that's just lacrosse, that's,that's that big and in the
hotbed of Dallas, Texas, youknow, the lacrosse hotbed a, a
lacrosse only facility.
So so tell us about, you know,the journey to open that
facility.
And Dallas lacrosse is gettingbig.
(21:38):
I mean, it may not be LongIsland or Maryland, but it's, it
is getting bigger and bigger.
Oh, no, I, I, I get it, butit's, it's, it's kind of cool,
right?
That Yeah, totally stone's aboutthe growth of the game because
you, you wouldn't expect thatsomething like that would be in
Dallas.
So, but, but Nick tell us thejourney of of getting to that
incredible facility.
So, I.
(21:58):
I told that woman on thatinterview in five years, five to
10 years, I'd owned a gym.
I owned a gym in two years afterthat, right?
So I owned, just to be clear,just to be clear, two years.
Two years, it took me, and thatwas a blessing.
So the, the Hickman family, Iowe them, I owe them so much.
They took me under their wing.
They, they helped me find faithagain.
(22:20):
So I owe them a lot.
They owned the gym.
They were, they, they were afootball background.
Kevin was a football player inthe NFL.
They took a risk on me to be alacrosse guy.
They paid me a little bit moremoney than the first gym.
I was making$30 an hour insteadof$10 an hour.
I was starting to climb up theladder a little bit and, and,
and kind of climb up outta thathole that I dug myself.
So again, I was loving what Iwas doing, but I was starting to
(22:40):
gain some traction andreputation for, for lacrosse.
So we had an 8,000 square footgym one day, and I'm telling'em
like, Hey, I need a raise.
Like I brought in a lot ofpeople, all this stuff.
So one, she goes, all right,let's set up a meeting tomorrow.
Kevin was on speakerphone.
He was at modern day high schoolcoaching football, and he was
the athletic director there.
And so he, he's on speakerphone.
I'm sitting there and they'relike, out nowhere.
They just go, we're gonna giveyou the gym.
(23:02):
And I was like, I was, I waspreparing to negotiate$5 on my,
on my hourly wage, and then allof a sudden I'm a gym owner,
right?
So again, my life comes fullcircle everywhere we go.
So they took me under way and Icall'em like, they're my second
family.
I still talk to'em.
They saw the barn.
(23:23):
They're, they're like, they,it's crazy.
What, what, what They're,they're like, I can't believe
you've done this.
They're so proud of me.
And, you know, it, it all startswith them.
So I have to give them a lot ofkudos.
But yeah.
That's awesome.
They, so 8,000 square foot gym,I didn't look at the numbers.
The, the gym was doing, it washealthy.
It wasn't losing money, but itwasn't making any money.
So I took it over and that wasmy.
(23:45):
I didn't look at numbers, Ididn't look at anything.
I just, I'm, I'm a gym owner,I'll figure it out.
Right.
And that was a tough process ofbecoming an entrepreneur and
becoming an owner.
And I had to learn a lot.
And I learn, I learn things thehard way.
It's just my story.
I, I learn'em trial and error,whether it's good or bad.
I learn and I just keep, youknow, stacking days, getting 1%
better, whatever you wanna callit.
I just, I show up and I, I, Icredit myself for my work ethic.
(24:09):
That's, I just show up.
And I, you know, at that gym, Iwas there 14 hours a day for the
first five years.
Wow.
So I think we made 147,000 ayear, like that first year that
like 10 years, like a coupleyears down the road, we're close
to 750,000.
But that gym was all sports.
Wow.
We did football, we didlacrosse, we did soccer, we did
everything.
We did a lot of strength,condition, speed.
(24:31):
So that time in the lacrosseworld in California, a lacrosse
only gym would've never worked.
Right.
And then.
So I, I sit down our, our leaseis over.
I have to come up with somemoney to renegotiate the lease
and also a down payment and allthis stuff.
And, you know, we figure it out.
But I sit down with the landlordfor that building and she goes,
(24:52):
we're gonna take the, because wewere, we were crushing it at
that point.
So I was like, I want to do a 10year deal.
She goes, before you go anyfurther, she goes, we're gonna
take the, the building back forour own use.
And I was like, oh my gosh.
Alright, well I don't have a gymanymore and this is still, this
is while I'm playing.
So I have the emotionalrollercoaster of owning my
business and losing my building.
And there's no vacant buildingsthat I found or could find.
(25:15):
And I'm sitting there at oneday, you know, in my brain going
one thing, coaching on autopilotin some, some way, coaching the
kids.
And we had a big garage door andthe parents used to sit out
there and watch their kids whileI was training.
And I'm sitting there and I'mlike, looking at the gym and how
successful it's, it's like it'sbursting from the seams.
The, the, the whole gym ispacked.
And this guy comes up to me and,it's got Brett Berry, who I owe
(25:37):
another, you know, so much too.
He comes up to me, he goes, youever think about going bigger?
And I was like, funny youmentioned that.
And he goes, he found, had a, hefound a building.
It was an old gold gym.
It used to be a a grocery store.
And I went and go and seen itand it's 21,000 square feet.
And I'm like, man, am I ready togo this big?
And at that point it was reallybig for me.
(25:58):
So I took the leap of faith.
I did it.
He helped me all the way throughit.
And he helped me with every, youknow, I, I met some real like
angels in my And who, who wasthis guy?
Some random guy on the street.
Just came up to you?
Oh, Brett.
Brett Barry.
I coached his, I coached hissons actually.
Okay.
And he, you know, he just helpedme through that real estate deal
to get that vacant building inup by, by Rancho Center,
(26:21):
margarita High School.
And gotcha.
So you had a little relationshipwith him.
Kind of thing.
Yeah.
I built relationship because Itook care of his kids and
everything, and then he helpedme and, you know, you know,
Brett actually passed he, hepassed the cancer, but you know,
oh boy, he's another angel thatsomeone sent me.
Right.
Wow.
Along the journey.
(26:41):
I get emotional about him too,because he was such a, you know,
such, such an important role ofany of this.
Right.
Good.
I should, I should rewind alittle bit.
When I was at this 8,000 squarefoot gym that Kevin and Maria
gave me mm-hmm.
I worked there for a year as a,as a coach.
And I never realized the exit Igot off and the, the week, maybe
(27:03):
two weeks after I, I tookownership, I get off the exit
and I realize that the exit isnumber 88, which is my best
friend that got shot and killedwas his football number.
Oh man.
88 has followed me everywhere.
And I'll, I'll go into thatmore, but.
Just, I was getting on, I, hewas leading me back on the right
path the whole time.
So he was with, I believe he'swith me.
(27:25):
I know that sounds foofy, butpeople that have experienced
that will know what I'm talkingabout.
Yeah.
I see 80 eights everywhere andI, that's the only way I know
that I'm doing the right thingand on the right path.
That was cool.
So I moved the 21,000 squarefoot gym.
I negotiate a hell of a deal inCalif, Southern California.
A 21,000 square foot gym isexpensive.
Especially.
(27:45):
Yeah.
I negotiated a deal for$20,000 amonth because they were gonna
knock it down in five years andredevelop it and make retirement
homes or something.
But the, the city of Coto andDoug were fighting it.
So I come in, in five years andsay, Hey, look, it, it gives me
five more years to run a gym.
Right?
That's the way I looked at it.
So I'll take five years and I'llfigure it out when I get there.
(28:06):
They did such a good job offighting it.
The construction company wentaway.
So after four and a half years,I renegotiate, I'm, I'm opening
up renegotiation deals, and theygo, okay, you know, you know
it's yours if you want it, butwe'll send you the lease
agreement.
And it went from$20,000 to$47,000 a month in a contract.
And I go, well, that's not gonnawork.
And they're like, well, sell us,send us a counter offer.
(28:27):
I go$20,000.
And they're like, that's notgonna work.
So I was like, oh, then I'mgonna, then I I, and this is,
this is right at the end ofwinning the championship and the
business.
Oh man.
Pretty well.
And this is another crossroad ofmine where I'm like, what am I
gonna do next?
I wanted to start a family, youknow, I got married.
And we're just figuring out thatSouthern California as a coach
(28:49):
and my, my wife does, you knowdoes hair.
So we don't, you know, to livein Southern California.
It's beautiful, but it.
We're living paycheck topaycheck, mostly because it's so
expensive.
Right.
So we started thinking aboutfuture plans.
So I finally went back to alumniweekend at Carolina this was two
years ago.
And I was looking at buildingspace about 5,000 square feet
(29:10):
warehouse to own my own littlething and have a strength coach,
a speed coach, and myself, andjust do it on a smaller scale.
Mm-hmm.
Get back, towin myself a littlebit more instead of, you know,
at one point I had 32 employeesand I just was over it.
I was, like I said, from playingand doing that up the business.
I was, I was tired.
I was, I was tired.
So I wanted downsize and do myown thing and have some more
(29:31):
freedom and travel and start myown family and stuff like that.
So I was looking in NorthCarolina.
First time I went back to NorthCarolina in 14 years since my,
you know, I got that news.
I just, I associated that badtime with UNC.
So I never I distanced myselffrom it and never went back.
I went to alumni weekend to lookat Billings,'cause I was gonna
look at North Carolina or SouthCarolina to move.
(29:51):
I was so pissed at myself fornot going back.
'cause that place so amazing.
Right.
It is a beautiful place.
And, and I also, I, I regret'cause I had to go back and
thank Coach Joe Brushy.
Yeah.
Brushy came in the year after Igraduated.
So he was, he was the coach whenI was there for next semester.
That was his first year.
(30:12):
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
I never played for him, but hecame in after my senior year.
Yeah.
So when I got that news, I waslost.
And this is going back and I'mkind of getting off tail, but I,
I should say this because CoachBrey helped me in a really tough
situation.
I was, I don't know what I wasgonna do, but I wasn't gonna do
(30:32):
anything good.
Whether that was pick a fightjust to get in a fight.
Like I didn't, I was off the, Iwas off the rail'cause I just
didn't know what, how to dealwith that shock.
Mm-hmm.
He sat me down.
I can't tell you if we talkedfor 10 minutes or two hours.
I was.
Kind of just all over the place,but he somehow, you know, he's
been through some things in hislife too, and he was able to
yeah, communicate with me atthat level and really understand
(30:56):
what I was going through at thatmoment and Right.
Kinda, you know, he, he walked,he, he held me back from the
ledge.
He got me off the ledge a littlebit, right.
So I had to go back and thankhim.
So I went to alumni weekend andI pulled him aside, got
emotional, thanked him.
I don't even know if heremembers, but you know, he was
another person that I needed atthat time.
So, anyway, long story shortwith that, but so I was looking
(31:18):
at small, so Nick, Joe and Iwere were roommates when he was
coaching at Brown many yearsago.
Absolute standup guy.
Amazing, amazing, great guy.
Yeah.
He is a, he is a great humanbeing and a great coach.
So, yeah, so I was in lookingfor smaller buildings and I get
a call from my now investor inDallas.
He goes, I got this place.
(31:39):
And I didn't know who he was.
You know, I researched and heplayed the cross played at a
high level, played at the prolevel.
Has done well for himself, buthe calls me and goes, I got a
place you gotta look at.
I'm like, I'm sorry, who isthis?
I'm sorry, who is this?
MacBook Pro Microphone-2 (31:50):
Yeah.
Who is this?
Right?
Is it your guardian angel or amystery man reaching out of
nowhere?
Is this any way to create thefirst ever lacrosse barn?
The premier lacrosse facility inall the world?
I don't know, but if you're likeme, you sure are curious.
(32:10):
Tune in next week to find out.
Until we meet again.
Here's to hoping you find thetwine.
We're signing off here at theget the lax scoop.
Thanks again so much.
We will see you the next time.
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