April 9, 2025 • 32 mins
In this episode of 'Get the LAX Scoop,' hosts Big Dawg and Jaybird dive into the world of lacrosse, bringing in prominent names in the game. The episode features an enriching interview with Jules Heningburg, a four-time Pro Lacrosse All-Star and founder of the LAX Lab. Jules discusses his journey from being an unranked recruit to becoming one of the best attackers in college lacrosse and eventually a star in the Professional Lacrosse League (PLL). He emphasizes the importance of continuous personal development, the role of mentorship, and the unique challenges of being a professional lacrosse player. The hosts also touch on the significance of specialized skills training for players aiming to elevate their performance. This episode is the second in a three-part series and promises valuable insights for both new and seasoned lacrosse enthusiasts.
00:00 Introduction to Get the Lax Scoop
00:23 Meet the Hosts and Guest
00:59 Welcome and Episode Overview
01:29 Jules Henningburg's Early Career
02:24 Recruitment Challenges and College Journey
04:13 Rutgers Lacrosse Experience
11:40 Coaching and Mentorship Insights
15:52 Importance of Skill Development
17:36 Professional Lacrosse Journey
25:06 Challenges and Future of Pro Lacrosse
32:18 Conclusion and Sign-Off
NEW BOOK!
Inside the Recruiting Game: Insights From College Lacrosse Coaches
-Available on Amazon.com as an Ebook and paperback
Links to training videos:
Master The 5 Best Dodges From the Wing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_7LDOcQQ6Q&t=88s
Blazing Shots... on the Run!
https://youtu.be/XiptPlM63oQ
Check us out...
On YouTube @jaymcmahonlax23
On Instagram @jaymcmahonlax23
On Facebook @: facebook.com/jmcmahonlax23. Page name: Jay McMahon Lacrosse
Jules Heningburg: https://thelaxlab.com/
Check out!... Coach Tintle's Lacrosse Barn:
https://g.co/kgs/eXedCXf
SuccessHotline with Dr. Rob Gilbert on Ironclad & Apple Podcasts
Brian Cain Daily Dominator on Apple Podcasts
Lacrosse Charities Mentioned in S2 E36:
https://www.4thefuturefoundation.org/
https://www.harlemlacrosse.org/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
It's time for Get the LackScoop, a podcast bringing you
all the people and stuff youshould know in the game of
lacrosse.
We take lack seriously, butourselves, not so much.
Join host Big Dog and Jaybirdand the biggest names in the
game brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training.
(00:23):
Ron Doglish, the big dog, was acollegiate football and lacrosse
player at Brown.
He was also an assistantlacrosse coach and the executive
director of the SportsFoundation.
And Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, athree time All American
midfielder at Brown.
He was the captain of the U.
S.
Junior National Team and is thefounder of JML.
(00:43):
And Joining us in the studio,Steve Grisolfi, who's collegiate
lacrosse career statisticsequals one goal against
Dartmouth brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training, helping the
next generation of lacrosseplayers get to the next level
Hello everyone, and for thosewho are new to the show,
(01:03):
welcome.
We're super excited to releasethis second episode of our
three-part interview series withfour time Pro lacrosse.
All-star and founder of the LAXLab, Jules Henning burg.
If you have not heard the priorsession, we strongly encourage
you to go back and check it out.
It was both intriguing andinsightful.
(01:24):
You'll find this interview inprogress.
We hope you enjoy.
And, and a little bit of thatresearch that came up that you
weren't a ranked recruit.
I guess the way things were doneat that stage, Ron and I, there
was wasn't much of a ranking.
People might have had somerumors, but there was, there was
nothing published.
But then you go into their r torts, Jay would've had himself
(01:45):
high in the rankings.
Oh yeah.
Just so you know.
He would've, the rumor wa therumor was I was very high in
ranking actually.
That's great.
That's, that's all he wanted tosay, Jules.
That's why you brought thatwhole thing up as long as you
earned it, Jay, you know,that's, that's what I respect.
Exactly, Jules.
Lots of hard work.
But you know, there you are atSeton Hall, you become a leader
(02:05):
there.
And then same thing at Rutgers,you're a two time captain, so by
the time you're a junior, you'reone of the leaders on the team.
And then by the time you're asenior, you're one of the best
attacker in the whole country.
So just awesome stuff there.
So tell us, tell us about thatjourney there at Rutgers with
the Scarlet Knights.
Yeah.
The.
Kind of a similar situation withwith what happened at Scene
(02:27):
Hall, honestly, where I gotthere and we had, I got
recruited as a Big East Attackman and I wasn't ranked as a
recruit.
I think that that was, honestly,I don't think I should have been
ranked at the time, likerelative to some of the kids
that like were ranked it at thatmoment in time.
I think there was a couple ofkids that I was better than, but
I think once you get to like theeighties, nineties, it's like
(02:49):
what's the difference betweenthe 90th recruit and the hundred
20th recruit?
Like I mm-hmm.
I think that, that there's thetop 10, the top 20, and these
kids, those kids are, you know,those are legitimate lacrosse
players, a lot of them.
And I don't think I was thatgood at that time.
And so that was one aspect toit.
I, when I got recruited, I gotrecruited late'cause I wasn't
playing on a club program.
Mm-hmm.
And I did think a lot of it, alot of the circumstances at play
(03:10):
for me were just very rare.
Where I was a good player, Iwasn't the best, but I was a
very good player that justwasn't understanding of what was
going on.
Then I missed the wave ofrecruiting, so I wasn't, I
wasn't good enough to thendecommit one of the kids that
they had had uhhuh.
So like what year, just curious.
Would that have been, were therelike, all right, we got our
(03:32):
class completed.
Was that when you were done withyour 10th grade year or 11th
grade or like what year?
Hopkins filled up in 2011.
20, yeah, in 20 11, 20 12.
And I got recruited in 20 12, 2013.
So like I remember Shaq was thefirst verbal commit in our
class.
And then UN, I wanted to go toUNC and I remember two kids got
(03:55):
recruited Taman.
And so that was locked up andthat was, that was a freshman
going into sophomore summer.
And then I didn't start to eventalk to coaches until sophomore
going to Junior.
And that was when Rutgers wasstill in the Big East.
And so we, I got recruited asthe Big East attack man.
I find out they're going to theBig 10.
I get there, they're in the Big10 and now.
(04:19):
We were, they had an eight andeight season the year before.
And then the, my freshman yearwe were five and 10, and we had
given Monmouth their first everwin in program history.
I remember we were tight contestwith Wagner.
We, I mean, we were not, we werenot good, but we weren't far
off.
That was kind of like thing,like we would play these games
(04:39):
and we would lose to Virginiaand I could be like, okay, like
we lost to Virginia.
But I mean, they, we could havekind of beat them.
We just weren't all there.
Or we lose to Hopkins and wewere like, we could have beat
them, but like, we just kind ofmessed up at the end.
Like we just didn't have thediscipline, the whole game.
Yeah.
So I was like, again,personally, I, I just took a lot
(05:00):
of pride in like my experience.
I think so did a lot of the guysin our class, and I would just
throw out there and think abouthow many guys they miss when the
class is full of guys who werein that summer between their
ninth and 10th grade year.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, you probably developed aton.
I was a bit of a late bloomer ifyou were, I know Dylan Malloy
(05:20):
was.
I mean, imagine how many guysthat are, you know, they're just
missing out on, so no wonder youguys could become competitive if
they're getting kids that are,you know, a little more
developed and they can see, allright, this guy's gonna be a
legit college player.
So, interesting.
I, I completely agree with that.
I think that was a, a toughthing for a lot of schools, but
they're banking on how, how goodyou were, how physically
(05:43):
developed you were as a freshmanat 14, 15.
That's crazy.
I think, I think the, thehardest part about that is just
the mental side of it.
Like what if you get committedwhen you're 14?
You naturally, you, unlessyou're a real dog.
You're gonna take your foot offthe pedal.
Right.
Right.
And unless you have greatmentors around you and your
parents, and I think a lot ofparents in lacrosse is like,
(06:05):
Hey, you get committed.
It's, I'm cool.
It's, I think it's changing.
Mm-hmm.
But like to be like, Hey, likeyou, that's the ticket you get
committed.
That's all I I needed.
I don't need you to be a FirstTeam America when you're there.
I just need you to, to getthere.
Have a good experience.
So you get a great collegeeducation.
Now it's becoming reallycompetitive to where, hey, if
you're not like staying thecourse and you, you know, you
(06:27):
don't pan out like that'simpacting the club teams.
It's impacting the relationshipswith the coaches and how they
view the talent pool comingoutta certain areas and, and
those kind of kids.
And so I think we got lucky in alot of ways that, from the
recruiting stuff that we had, Imean, in my class, I think we
(06:48):
had four PLL players in myclass.
Wow, that's football players.
And so my sophomore year, a lotof us played our freshman year,
got great experience.
We lost some games, but we cameback our sophomore year.
And we were just, I mean, wewere just wanted to be great
like we really did.
I think all of us played adifferent part in that.
(07:10):
I personally played a part inthat on the offensive side where
I knew like, okay, coach Bretwants, wants me to be a
quarterback here.
Like that does, there isn'tanother guy that's significantly
like the gap between me and thenext guy.
We're kind of big.
So if I here, like, okay, likehe might not be a starter.
(07:31):
I'm a starter and I'm over here.
Well, can I be a starter or canI be an all-conference player?
Can I be an All American?
And if I don't keep pushingtowards that, we're gonna
struggle offensively.
Like if I, if I can't provideus.
The spark.
It's not like we have the nextguy behind me who's saying like,
okay, take Jules out and, andsub in and Owen Duffy.
(07:52):
Right.
Like, or Right, right.
You know, a, a Brady pono.
Like there's no, like next guyup.
Mm-hmm.
And that was, that was, for me,that gave me a sense of, okay,
my spot's kind of safe, but alsowe're in trouble if I don't
figure this out.
And, and I, I took thatpersonally and I think a lot of
the, our classmates did too.
Like we knew what we kind of alllike had this PAC sort of like
(08:16):
agreement, like we want Rutgersto be great.
Mm-hmm.
And you know, we kind of just,just took that and, and ran with
it.
And our sophomore year wasincredible.
The attack line I was on hadAdam Sherman Beatty's, NLL
player now.
Oh yeah.
And he was, he's probably alltime goal scorer, one of them
at, at Rutgers, maybe top three.
And he, was tremendous Canadiantalent.
(08:38):
And then Scott Vita was theoffensive player of the year,
big or big 10 player of theyear, his senior year coach,
offensive coordinator inMichigan.
And we were on a attack linetogether, and both of us are
professional players.
And so, right.
I was like, wow.
Like this is, if I can hold myweight to these guys we're, you
know, we're gonna be pretty goodon, off.
Yeah.
That, you know, that was, that'sawesome.
(08:59):
It was kind of just a, you know,I think we got, I don't know if
it's luck or like what, but Ijust looked around and I was
like, wow, we actually did havea lot of guys that were really,
really talented.
Whether we worked at it, whetherit was we got recruited the
right way, I, I don't know.
So it worked out.
It worked out.
And then what does coach Brecklike to play with?
So Coach Breck, like four, Iguess I should say.
(09:19):
He probably didn't do that muchplaying back then.
Yeah.
So co coach Breck, the, thething I, I appreciate most about
him was like, he really believedin me personally and gave me a
ton of confidence.
Like I'd never had someone.
Outside of my dad believe in memore than coach Rec did.
And I think that he, heinstilled that in a lot of his
(09:43):
players when he was recruitingyou.
Like, I brought you here for areason.
Like, I, I need, I want you, Ineed you.
I believe that you can be allBig 10, all American, a program
player.
Yeah.
And so I think he, I, Iappreciate that a lot and, and
how he did that.
And I think he also positionedus to maximize, like our
(10:04):
individual talents.
I see.
Different programs playdifferent ways, but if you have
a lot of talent, there's alittle bit more you can roll the
balls out.
And we didn't have that type oftalent, but we had it.
So where, you know, he, he'sempowering his, his coaches
coach Jim Mitchell is theoffensive coach at Princeton now
who, who I think is doing someof the most phenomenal work in
(10:26):
the country as far as offense.
Yeah.
What he's built with SoursCoulter, McAfee, and, and just
some of the.
The guys you see there, ChadPalumbo and just some of what
they're doing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The free flowing Kabiri the parasets, just the early offense,
the stuff that they're doing.
I took for granted that like wewere being positioned to
maximize our strengths.
(10:47):
Where I think I look at someother programs and I'm like,
man, you guys have excellenttalent, but these guys are not
being utilized well.
Mm-hmm.
And I, I'm pr I'm producing, butlike, who Is it more that I'm ta
as talented as you?
Or am I being positioned tomaximize my talent?
And that, that's something Ialways appreciated about Coach
(11:08):
Brecht and just the program is Ialways felt like they were
trying to put me and other guysin spots to have you shine and
Right.
And hide your deficits away.
Mm-hmm.
Kinda maximize your upside.
Yeah.
Yep.
And, and give you like, hey,like you're not Jules, you're
not a great outside shooter.
I need you to get there.
But like in the meantime, like,let's put you in spots where
(11:29):
you're gonna be able to bearound the cage and do this and
do that.
And like now you can score fouror five goals a game.
We'll hide that you're not agood outside shooter.
Eventually they'll catch on.
Can you get better at that inthe meantime And mm-hmm.
So with, with that type ofmindset from Coach Breck, is
that something that got youstarting to think about getting
into coaching yourself orstarting to mentor players, you
know, that kind of encouragementand also your experience with
(11:51):
your Seton Hall coach?
I think, honestly, I always feltcompelled to really share any,
like, information that I get.
Like maybe, maybe even to afault, like hoping that people
would, would buy into it orcatch on.
And the reality is some peopleare just where they're at and
that they don't, they don't wantto do the work and they don't,
(12:13):
they don't wanna take it asseriously as I do, which is to,
it's totally fine.
Like it's no harm, no foul.
If you're my teammate, sometimesI, I like take that personally.
But everyone's in a differentposition.
That's just, you know, kind ofjust for me, for my life.
But I always felt that in, insport and in lacrosse.
So if I learned something, sawsomething on film you know, had
(12:34):
a technique, whatever it mightbe, like, I want everyone to
have it because I'm like, Hey,if this is helping me, I know
this can help you and if you getbetter, we're gonna get better.
And so I never felt like Iwanted to, to get better in a
vacuum.
I always wanted to share in, ingetting better with other
people.
And I think that was kind of thestart of it for me, like my sort
of passion or purpose aroundjust being a mentor, being a
(12:55):
coach, being a teacher.
And then I think when I got tocollege, something that I was
hoping for more of was personaldevelopment on the field.
And you realize fast that likethere's only three coaches, I
think now there's more paidpositions.
But back then, like yeah, we gotan offensive coordinator trying
to have 30 guys.
(13:16):
Right.
Better practice like that.
Very to do.
Yeah.
And, and that's something yousee.
'cause I kinda saw the samething, just coaching at a much
lower level on the travel level,but it's like, you don't have
time.
Like I just said, you've got 30guys you're working with,
there's no way you're gonna gettheir skills better.
So it was more that that plantedthe seed, but you're like, all
right, I could really help theseguys between practices and
(13:40):
really get their skills gearedup.
Is is that what you're exactlygetting into?
Yeah.
And, and that in other sports,like football, like there's a
receiver coach, there's an oldline coach there.
There's a coach.
Like we don't, we're not thereyet.
So I'm taking whateverinformation from Coach Mitchell
on the offensive side that hecan give me.
But like, he can't go out and dore extra reps with me, right.
(14:04):
Like this game of, all right,I'm gonna get developed in
practice, but only really forlike 15 or 20 minutes.
Then it's.
It's, we have to work on all theteam strategy stuff.
Yeah.
But where, where am I gonna totake, where am I gonna take
another step as a player?
It's gonna be in the summer, inthe wintertime and during, you
know, my two or three days ofextra work outside of practice,
(14:24):
deliberate extra work, we calledit outside of practice.
That, that really started tochange my not only trajectory as
a player, but also my mentally,how I viewed development.
And that I knew that if thatworked for me, that it could
work for others.
And so I, I just felt like noone, even to this day, like I
(14:44):
can talk about it till I'm bluein the face, but there's just
something about working on oneor two very specific skills, you
know, for 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8weeks in a row where you see the
growth of it.
Totally.
Yeah.
And you see it, it manifestsitself in the game.
And you're like, wait, I wasliterally working on that.
(15:06):
And then it, I built confidence.
Then I went for it and practicedand I went for it in the game
and it worked okay like thisbecause it's either you do that
or you're just so talented thatyou don't need to do that or, or
a mix of both.
And I think it's kind of getlost in that they have to be so
talented.
Or they're not gonna make it.
It's like, no, you just have toreally hone in on your, your
process of development.
(15:27):
Right.
And that's exactly what I'veseen too, timeframe wise.
Like, it kids will come out withyou a couple times, a couple
weeks.
It's more like six weeks.
Right.
You're just at six to eightweeks.
I feel like that is the magicnumber.
We've had a bunch of othercoaches on it.
It just takes that much time tokind of train them into whatever
it is you're, you're showing'emto do.
So that's very cool.
Good to, good to hear.
Jay (15:46):
How about if we transition to.
J m l and let's do that.
Ladies and gentlemen, I've gottasay I really love what Coach
Hanberg has just stated, andthat is it is not possible for a
player to improve their skillsat team practice because the way
you gain a skill, such as beingable to say, drop your hands and
(16:08):
shoot high accurately, is by itsvery nature, going to require
many, many repetitions.
Over the course of six to eightweeks before it becomes fluid,
dependable, and part of aplayer's muscle memory.
So a player cannot just starttrying something completely new
at a team practice'cause he orshe simply will not get the
(16:29):
repetitions that are necessaryto make that happen.
Not to mention a player willalso learn skills more quickly
and effectively when they workwith someone who is dedicated
many, many years to masteringthe game, such as a skills
trainer, skills trainers likeJules Henning and our prior
guests, Nick Tinel, JamieMonroe, and myself.
(16:52):
Every other sport has benefitedgreatly from players working on
their skills between practices.
With talented professionals,lacrosse skills trainers are
helping take the sport oflacrosse to the next level.
So don't get left behind.
Join the literally thousands ofplayers who have jumped on board
and are enjoying the ride.
(17:13):
If you wanna learn more, checkout these coaches' information
in our show notes, or check outthe JML YouTube channel also
listed in the show notes.
There, you'll find a number offree instructional videos listed
and you can always directmessage me for online or in
person training.
Now we will return to ourinterview and you will find that
interview in progress.
(17:36):
So as a pro, you know, you werefour time all star, as we were
saying in the opening and I wasjust looking at that first
season.
I remember that really well.
Where that 2019 season you gettraded to the redwoods and then
they get to the final.
And that finals game was justunbelievable.
It was like one to one after thefirst quarter and then it was
something like nine to one.
(17:57):
The whip snakes are winning.
And then you come all the wayback, tie it, and then you're
leading and then it goes intoot.
So tell us about that.
And then I just wanted to throwin there a stat that I was
looking at the statistics.
You know, you were an all starthat year in 2019, and you were
tied for second in the leaguefor points per game with Tommy
Schreiber and Connor Fields.
(18:18):
And then just like a decimalpoint behind Matt Rambo, who's
the MVP?
So you're, you're keeping prettygood company there.
Damn.
But, but tell us.
It was unbelievable.
That's so tell us a little bitabout that.
That's some serious company.
Oh my gosh.
Crazy.
So tell us about that, that yearand that situation, and then
with Na St.
Laurent just retiring, we'll,we'll throw that in as a follow
(18:38):
up, but just let's focus on the,the play and the players that
first year in the league.
Yeah.
Well, well to, to set the stage,Matt Rambo and I have been
playing against each other sincemy freshman year at Rutgers.
I've rarely got the best ofthem.
I have got the best of them afew times, but not when it's
mattered most.
And that's, I You have got thebest of'em.
I like to be, I've gotten thebest of'em.
(18:59):
But it speaks to Maryland and,and what they built there and
just you see it again this year,which they're doing it with, not
the talent that they had.
Yeah, that's crazy.
Back in, in 16, 17, 18, I mean,they had Bernhard, which now
Kelly Cock Rambo Brian Cole,who's in the NLL.
(19:22):
And then you have Mueller Burnlike you have.
Yeah.
All crazy talent.
Unbelievable.
Berlin.
Yeah.
Pro Hall of Fame level playersfor worked time winners up and
down the roster.
And then we have Rutgers andit's like we're going up against
these guys and we're competinglike every game was a fight.
Triple over time my junior yearwhere they won the national
(19:44):
championship, we, we lose themon Easter Sunday.
Wow.
And I always, you know, when,when we'd play against'em like
that, to me that was the, thatwas the biggest game of the
year.
Like that is we play Maryland.
Like you're locked in.
Everything matters, every groundball matters, every opportunity
to, to strike matters.
'cause if they get the ball,they're gonna strike.
They're gonna make it happen.
(20:04):
Mm-hmm.
And I just remember like, thatwas kind of my barometer that I
had to, to be competing at if Iwanted to be great because they
were, they were the, the bestteam in the country.
And my soft pretty, yeah, prettyhigh barometer.
Yeah.
And, but that, that was that forme though, that, that was great,
right?
Like there is no, no greatplayer unless you have a great
opponent at the end of the day.
(20:24):
And, and I felt like that waskind of Matt Rambo to me.
It was like he was the, thegreat opponent that I was trying
to, to really compete against.
And I remember my sophomoreyear, I was the only all Big 10
player that wasn't an AllAmerican first team, all Big 10
player.
But I led the conference ingoals and it was Rambo, it was
immense.
It was, you know, this guy, thatguy.
(20:46):
And so that kind of like, I waslike, okay, like is that'cause
I'm at Rutgers?
Is that'cause you know, wedidn't make the tournament.
I don't know, but I'm rightthere with like, I'm right there
with you.
Like I'm showing up, I'm doingit with a lot less talent.
So I knew if I was playing withsome, some more talented players
like you better Mac O'Keefe orsomebody like that.
(21:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like all, all time leading goldscorer, like n NCAA a history.
Right, right.
And we're playing with a bunchof ragtag guys.
We were good, but like we didnot have that like in the record
on our team.
Right.
And so fast forward to the PLLyou know, I was playing on the
whips, snakes, and I, and so nowI'm on the other side and I'm
looking and I'm like, we'regonna win the championship.
Like we are really good.
(21:27):
And we have a strong culture.
These guys show up every week.
They care, they're locked in.
We compete really hard and youjust look up in that locker
room.
And I was trying to play attack,like that was my natural
position and I just think Coachwas running me outta tech
sometimes he was running meoutta the box and it was, you
know, he made a decision whereit was a good decision for me in
(21:48):
my career at that point wherethey had Ryan Rener, they had
Ben Reeves tour time winner,Matt Rambo, Jay Carlson, who
becomes their starter for theirthree, their two championships
that they win.
And obviously Matt Rambo.
And so I was kind of the odd manout and so he traded me to the,
the Redwoods.
And that was great for me from adevelopment standpoint and kind
(22:10):
of like an opportunity for me toshine a little bit more where we
had far away more offensivetalent on the whip snakes than
we did on the Redwoods.
We had some talent to players,don't get me wrong, like
Kavanaugh Zi per we perfectly.
We had guys.
But I just don't think from a, acontinuity standpoint and a
pedigree standpoint, they had adifferent level of that on the
whips snakes.
So it gave me an opportunity to,to really have to do more and be
(22:34):
more, you know, be, have less ofa role player and more of like,
you have to, you have to do moreif we're gonna be good.
And I think also at that point,they had created these teams, so
they were missing Malloy who wasstill in MLL, Peter Baum went on
that team.
'cause he had just, I guess juststepped away, formerly retired.
And so there was a vacuum a bit.
(22:55):
And so that was a greatopportunity for me.
And statistically it was a greatyear and we made it to the
championships the last time Imade it to a championship in the
PLL.
And honestly, that's, that'swhat you're striving for.
Like the stats are cool, theaccolades are cool, but like, at
the end of the day, like winningis, is just the most rewarding
experience when you do it with agroup of people you care about
and you have that journeytogether.
(23:16):
And so that, that's really whatI'm ultimately searching for
and, and want out of my, mytime.
And I haven't had that yet.
And, you know, I'll do whateverit takes personally to just
develop myself and, and be thebest teammate, leader, whatever
I need to be to, to make thathappening.
'cause when you win with a, youknow, again, with a group of
people you care about, likethose are memories and
experiences, which I'm sure youguys can talk about.
(23:39):
You have'em for the rest of yourlife.
And that's what, that's whatlife's all about.
Right.
That's great.
Yeah, no, no doubt about it.
Tell us about coach Nat St.
Laurent, if you could.
Yeah.
Co coach Nat, I mean, in, insimilar fashion to Coach Brecht,
super loyal guy, believes in hisplayers.
And every time I would, I justremember something he would do,
like, he would always encourageme to just be myself, like.
(24:01):
He just wanted me nothing moreto just go out there, be Jules.
And when I, when I would do thatand, and I would, you know, show
up, like there was opportunitieswhere, you know, I was the best,
best player on the field on anygiven day.
And he, he saw that in me and,and wanted that outta me.
And I always appreciated him forthat and, and kind of that
belief.
And I think anyone that hasplayed for him can say that he
is, he is someone that has thatjust that energy and that
(24:24):
approach to, you know, reallyjust being there for his
players.
Mm-hmm.
Even to a fault sometimes, youknow, I think that they, the
coaches are put in a toughposition, starting to change a
little bit, but in that league,they're the GM and the head
coach.
Yeah.
You know, it's really hard be aguy that believes in someone so
much, but if they're not doingtheir job, they're not playing
well, maybe there's another guythey need to go get.
(24:44):
They're like kind of like torn,do I?
Right.
Right.
So I think, you know, you seeSelena got hired as a gm.
We got a gm, a coach withSpencer Ford on RC.
Yeah.
I think separates that and makesthe, makes it a little bit more
professional and, and makes thejob of the coach a little bit
easier.
Right.
And the coach really can be aplayer's coach and not have to
worry about that business sideof things.
Yeah.
(25:04):
Yep.
Cool.
So Jules, I was just thinking,you know, it's a, it's a pretty,
I love your story for youngkids, right?
Because I think so many of thesekids, and we, we've kind of
alluded to this, think there'sonly one path.
You know, there's only one way.
And like if ever there's ajourney to playing at the very
(25:25):
highest level of the game thattook a circuitous route, you
know it's yours.
Yeah.
And I think it's just such agreat thing for kids who,
especially in today's club era,I just think they think there's
this one way to get where youwant to get.
So it's just an amazing.
Story from where your, yourcareer started to where it's
come.
(25:45):
And, and I, and I just wanna seeif you can reflect a little bit
more, and you were just alludingto it, the state of professional
lacrosse and what it is to be apro lacrosse player.
You know, where do you see thatgame right now?
What's the next step?
Because, you know, for those whodon't know, it's not quite yet a
full-time gig.
(26:05):
Right, Jules?
And, you know, you're, it's alot of pressure on these guys
who have jobs and then you'rebasically coming in for a
weekend.
You don't get a ton of practicetime.
So talk about the experience ofbeing a professional or cross
player on those realities, andthen where your hopes are for,
for sort of the next stage ofprofessional lacrosse.
Yeah.
(26:25):
Honestly, I, I think it's it,it's definitely been tough
overall for me in, in my careerin that I, I've never been the
most talented player, so I'vealways had to find ways to.
Stay the course, get better.
And doing that in a, in a mannerwhere you're not with your team
all the time and you don't havea professional place to do it
(26:48):
out of, and you don't have thetrainers that you might have,
you're in the NFL or the NBA,like finding all those things.
It's the, the best players andthe guys that stay around the
longest are ones that sort ofcreate that, that space for
themselves in their own right.
Wherever they are in, in thecountry.
And that's always, that's alwayschanged for me.
Like, I lived in San Diego formy first year and I was playing
(27:10):
box.
Hmm.
So I was getting these box repsand I was doing that thing.
I had to stick in my hand allthe time.
I was doing that.
And then I would coach highschool and I would suit up with
the high school team and thenCovid hit, and then we were
doing nothing, right?
Like you were just literally byyourself or with your housemate,
so now you're not getting thatas much.
Then 21, 21 comes and I'm notplaying box and I'm moving back
(27:30):
to the East coast.
So now I'm, I'm gonna transitionwhere I'm like reevaluating
what, what it is that I'm doingto get better, like.
Finding new trainers, new, youknow, new this, new that.
I haven't quite gotten back intolike having the high school
program, but now I am and I havemore time than I've ever had
this year for training.
So like it's always beendifferent and I think some guys
(27:51):
are just so talented that itdoesn't matter when you think
about just like your careerwindow, like the NBA guys aren't
really coming into their ownuntil like year 5, 6, 7, and
then they're looking at likeseven to 14 as like their prime.
And maybe you start to dwindledown.
Like Steph Curry's probablydwindling down now.
Well, bronze not dwindling down,which is right.
(28:14):
But you know, you look at someof these guys and they're just,
the time it takes for them todevelop is so different.
Where in pro lacrosse, it's likeyou get outta college and a lot
of people think that that's yourbest year.
That was, I knew that was notgonna be my best year was outta
college.
My rookie season in Florida, Ihad a, I had a great year.
I was second rookie in theleague in points.
(28:35):
And I, I did very well, but Iwas on a team.
We weren't very, you know, verysuccessful as a team overall in
Florida.
Had a great experience.
But then I was like, I, I wannafigure out ways to get better.
And I think some guys have this,this window of time where
they're looking at like, I'monly gonna have a seven or eight
year career anyway.
So I'm just, I don't, I don't,I'm so talented that I don't
(28:56):
really need to do as much.
Like I can just really go be mefor seven years and I'm, I'm
good, I'm done.
Where I think the next stage ofthis is, hey, like you come
outta college and like, that'snot your best year.
Like that's your rookie season.
You need to find a role, youneed to find a way to get on the
field.
And now, like, how do you buildevery year so that by year five,
(29:21):
not only are you gettingcompensated appropriately to
where you feel like you're.
Pro, but like you're kind ofstepping into your own at 25,
26, 27, where like now you're inyour prime.
Like I think we've missed a lotof guys primes because they're,
maybe they're not, they don'ttake care of their bodies as
much'cause they don't have thetrainers, the nutrition, this,
that, and the third, like,you're 30, like you should be
(29:42):
peaking physically, youshouldn't be.
Mm-hmm.
And I think that, that, that'sbeen something I've been
fortunate where I've alwaysbuilt and I've figured out ways
to do it.
But I've seen the struggle formyself.
And I know other guys are, I'mdoing that as a full-time
lacrosse guy.
Other guys jobs in New York Cityand, and maybe they're three
martini lunches, steak dinners,literally.
(30:04):
So off, man, I've been veryfortunate with it.
I think the next stage is, is wedo have to get paid more.
Like we did take a step forwardin 2019 that the, the wages have
not gone up since then.
But I think they have to be ableto tell a college kid, like.
Hey, no other job.
You are a full-time player withthis league.
We can compensate you as suchand we need you to be training
(30:26):
year round and we want, youknow, in five years for you to
look up and your salary's goingup again.
So have something to lookforward to instead of kind of,
you know, stagnating, which Ithink we're stagnating a little
bit and I'm excited to see whatkind of the next phase is.
But like, that's been, it's beenan upward trend and now I think
we're, we're kind of here andwe're waiting for that next
(30:47):
jolt, whether it's the Olympics,whether it's the game.
Yeah, I, I was just gonna say,it seems like, it seems like so
much seems to be riding in termsof the popularity of the sport
and that next big spike forwardin, in what's might be possible
with the Olympics.
Yeah, yeah.
So yeah, we, we will see.
I'm hopeful though.
(31:08):
Yeah.
Well Jules, the other thing I,I.
You know, it, it wasinteresting.
I see a couple of lines whereyou talked about at Rutgers,
right?
Needing to understand that evenwhen you are around a team five,
six days a week and have thatpractice, you gotta have that
individual growth mindset,right?
(31:29):
Because the reality of the, theindividual development time.
And so it seems like that servedyou well in the PLL where that's
even, I don't know, it's 10times the reality there, right?
I mean, you, you just have solittle time around your team
that if you're not gettingbetter on your own or you're not
just ridiculously talented, it'sjust not gonna happen.
(31:51):
It, it's true.
And, and there are a lot ofguys, don't get me wrong, and
it's not just a PLL, you seethis in the NBA.
I don't know if you see it inthe NFL as much just because of
how physically demanding thatthat sport is.
But definitely in the NBA, yougot guys that are just, you
know, they're on multimilliondollar contracts and, and this
guy, you hear you hear storiesabout this guy you hear stories
about this guy You hear, youhear what?
(32:14):
What is it that you hear aboutthis guy to find out.
Tune in next week.
Until we meet again.
Here's to hoping you find thetwine.
We're signing off here at theget the lax scoop.
Thanks again so much.
We will see you the next time.
It's time for Get the LackScoop, a podcast bringing you
all the people and stuff youshould know in the game of
lacrosse.
We take lack seriously, butourselves, not so much.
Join host Big Dog and Jaybirdand the biggest names in the
game brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training.
(00:23):
Ron Doglish, the big dog, was acollegiate football and lacrosse
player at Brown.
He was also an assistantlacrosse coach and the executive
director of the SportsFoundation.
And Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, athree time All American
midfielder at Brown.
He was the captain of the U.
S.
Junior National Team and is thefounder of JML.
(00:43):
And Joining us in the studio,Steve Grisolfi, who's collegiate
lacrosse career statisticsequals one goal against
Dartmouth brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training, helping the
next generation of lacrosseplayers get to the next level
Hello everyone, and for thosewho are new to the show,
(01:03):
welcome.
We're super excited to releasethis second episode of our
three-part interview series withfour time Pro lacrosse.
All-star and founder of the LAXLab, Jules Henning burg.
If you have not heard the priorsession, we strongly encourage
you to go back and check it out.
It was both intriguing andinsightful.
(01:24):
You'll find this interview inprogress.
We hope you enjoy.
And, and a little bit of thatresearch that came up that you
weren't a ranked recruit.
I guess the way things were doneat that stage, Ron and I, there
was wasn't much of a ranking.
People might have had somerumors, but there was, there was
nothing published.
But then you go into their r torts, Jay would've had himself
(01:45):
high in the rankings.
Oh yeah.
Just so you know.
He would've, the rumor wa therumor was I was very high in
ranking actually.
That's great.
That's, that's all he wanted tosay, Jules.
That's why you brought thatwhole thing up as long as you
earned it, Jay, you know,that's, that's what I respect.
Exactly, Jules.
Lots of hard work.
But you know, there you are atSeton Hall, you become a leader
(02:05):
there.
And then same thing at Rutgers,you're a two time captain, so by
the time you're a junior, you'reone of the leaders on the team.
And then by the time you're asenior, you're one of the best
attacker in the whole country.
So just awesome stuff there.
So tell us, tell us about thatjourney there at Rutgers with
the Scarlet Knights.
Yeah.
The.
Kind of a similar situation withwith what happened at Scene
(02:27):
Hall, honestly, where I gotthere and we had, I got
recruited as a Big East Attackman and I wasn't ranked as a
recruit.
I think that that was, honestly,I don't think I should have been
ranked at the time, likerelative to some of the kids
that like were ranked it at thatmoment in time.
I think there was a couple ofkids that I was better than, but
I think once you get to like theeighties, nineties, it's like
(02:49):
what's the difference betweenthe 90th recruit and the hundred
20th recruit?
Like I mm-hmm.
I think that, that there's thetop 10, the top 20, and these
kids, those kids are, you know,those are legitimate lacrosse
players, a lot of them.
And I don't think I was thatgood at that time.
And so that was one aspect toit.
I, when I got recruited, I gotrecruited late'cause I wasn't
playing on a club program.
Mm-hmm.
And I did think a lot of it, alot of the circumstances at play
(03:10):
for me were just very rare.
Where I was a good player, Iwasn't the best, but I was a
very good player that justwasn't understanding of what was
going on.
Then I missed the wave ofrecruiting, so I wasn't, I
wasn't good enough to thendecommit one of the kids that
they had had uhhuh.
So like what year, just curious.
Would that have been, were therelike, all right, we got our
(03:32):
class completed.
Was that when you were done withyour 10th grade year or 11th
grade or like what year?
Hopkins filled up in 2011.
20, yeah, in 20 11, 20 12.
And I got recruited in 20 12, 2013.
So like I remember Shaq was thefirst verbal commit in our
class.
And then UN, I wanted to go toUNC and I remember two kids got
(03:55):
recruited Taman.
And so that was locked up andthat was, that was a freshman
going into sophomore summer.
And then I didn't start to eventalk to coaches until sophomore
going to Junior.
And that was when Rutgers wasstill in the Big East.
And so we, I got recruited asthe Big East attack man.
I find out they're going to theBig 10.
I get there, they're in the Big10 and now.
(04:19):
We were, they had an eight andeight season the year before.
And then the, my freshman yearwe were five and 10, and we had
given Monmouth their first everwin in program history.
I remember we were tight contestwith Wagner.
We, I mean, we were not, we werenot good, but we weren't far
off.
That was kind of like thing,like we would play these games
(04:39):
and we would lose to Virginiaand I could be like, okay, like
we lost to Virginia.
But I mean, they, we could havekind of beat them.
We just weren't all there.
Or we lose to Hopkins and wewere like, we could have beat
them, but like, we just kind ofmessed up at the end.
Like we just didn't have thediscipline, the whole game.
Yeah.
So I was like, again,personally, I, I just took a lot
(05:00):
of pride in like my experience.
I think so did a lot of the guysin our class, and I would just
throw out there and think abouthow many guys they miss when the
class is full of guys who werein that summer between their
ninth and 10th grade year.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, you probably developed aton.
I was a bit of a late bloomer ifyou were, I know Dylan Malloy
(05:20):
was.
I mean, imagine how many guysthat are, you know, they're just
missing out on, so no wonder youguys could become competitive if
they're getting kids that are,you know, a little more
developed and they can see, allright, this guy's gonna be a
legit college player.
So, interesting.
I, I completely agree with that.
I think that was a, a toughthing for a lot of schools, but
they're banking on how, how goodyou were, how physically
(05:43):
developed you were as a freshmanat 14, 15.
That's crazy.
I think, I think the, thehardest part about that is just
the mental side of it.
Like what if you get committedwhen you're 14?
You naturally, you, unlessyou're a real dog.
You're gonna take your foot offthe pedal.
Right.
Right.
And unless you have greatmentors around you and your
parents, and I think a lot ofparents in lacrosse is like,
(06:05):
Hey, you get committed.
It's, I'm cool.
It's, I think it's changing.
Mm-hmm.
But like to be like, Hey, likeyou, that's the ticket you get
committed.
That's all I I needed.
I don't need you to be a FirstTeam America when you're there.
I just need you to, to getthere.
Have a good experience.
So you get a great collegeeducation.
Now it's becoming reallycompetitive to where, hey, if
you're not like staying thecourse and you, you know, you
(06:27):
don't pan out like that'simpacting the club teams.
It's impacting the relationshipswith the coaches and how they
view the talent pool comingoutta certain areas and, and
those kind of kids.
And so I think we got lucky in alot of ways that, from the
recruiting stuff that we had, Imean, in my class, I think we
(06:48):
had four PLL players in myclass.
Wow, that's football players.
And so my sophomore year, a lotof us played our freshman year,
got great experience.
We lost some games, but we cameback our sophomore year.
And we were just, I mean, wewere just wanted to be great
like we really did.
I think all of us played adifferent part in that.
(07:10):
I personally played a part inthat on the offensive side where
I knew like, okay, coach Bretwants, wants me to be a
quarterback here.
Like that does, there isn'tanother guy that's significantly
like the gap between me and thenext guy.
We're kind of big.
So if I here, like, okay, likehe might not be a starter.
(07:31):
I'm a starter and I'm over here.
Well, can I be a starter or canI be an all-conference player?
Can I be an All American?
And if I don't keep pushingtowards that, we're gonna
struggle offensively.
Like if I, if I can't provideus.
The spark.
It's not like we have the nextguy behind me who's saying like,
okay, take Jules out and, andsub in and Owen Duffy.
(07:52):
Right.
Like, or Right, right.
You know, a, a Brady pono.
Like there's no, like next guyup.
Mm-hmm.
And that was, that was, for me,that gave me a sense of, okay,
my spot's kind of safe, but alsowe're in trouble if I don't
figure this out.
And, and I, I took thatpersonally and I think a lot of
the, our classmates did too.
Like we knew what we kind of alllike had this PAC sort of like
(08:16):
agreement, like we want Rutgersto be great.
Mm-hmm.
And you know, we kind of just,just took that and, and ran with
it.
And our sophomore year wasincredible.
The attack line I was on hadAdam Sherman Beatty's, NLL
player now.
Oh yeah.
And he was, he's probably alltime goal scorer, one of them
at, at Rutgers, maybe top three.
And he, was tremendous Canadiantalent.
(08:38):
And then Scott Vita was theoffensive player of the year,
big or big 10 player of theyear, his senior year coach,
offensive coordinator inMichigan.
And we were on a attack linetogether, and both of us are
professional players.
And so, right.
I was like, wow.
Like this is, if I can hold myweight to these guys we're, you
know, we're gonna be pretty goodon, off.
Yeah.
That, you know, that was, that'sawesome.
(08:59):
It was kind of just a, you know,I think we got, I don't know if
it's luck or like what, but Ijust looked around and I was
like, wow, we actually did havea lot of guys that were really,
really talented.
Whether we worked at it, whetherit was we got recruited the
right way, I, I don't know.
So it worked out.
It worked out.
And then what does coach Brecklike to play with?
So Coach Breck, like four, Iguess I should say.
(09:19):
He probably didn't do that muchplaying back then.
Yeah.
So co coach Breck, the, thething I, I appreciate most about
him was like, he really believedin me personally and gave me a
ton of confidence.
Like I'd never had someone.
Outside of my dad believe in memore than coach Rec did.
And I think that he, heinstilled that in a lot of his
(09:43):
players when he was recruitingyou.
Like, I brought you here for areason.
Like, I, I need, I want you, Ineed you.
I believe that you can be allBig 10, all American, a program
player.
Yeah.
And so I think he, I, Iappreciate that a lot and, and
how he did that.
And I think he also positionedus to maximize, like our
(10:04):
individual talents.
I see.
Different programs playdifferent ways, but if you have
a lot of talent, there's alittle bit more you can roll the
balls out.
And we didn't have that type oftalent, but we had it.
So where, you know, he, he'sempowering his, his coaches
coach Jim Mitchell is theoffensive coach at Princeton now
who, who I think is doing someof the most phenomenal work in
(10:26):
the country as far as offense.
Yeah.
What he's built with SoursCoulter, McAfee, and, and just
some of the.
The guys you see there, ChadPalumbo and just some of what
they're doing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The free flowing Kabiri the parasets, just the early offense,
the stuff that they're doing.
I took for granted that like wewere being positioned to
maximize our strengths.
(10:47):
Where I think I look at someother programs and I'm like,
man, you guys have excellenttalent, but these guys are not
being utilized well.
Mm-hmm.
And I, I'm pr I'm producing, butlike, who Is it more that I'm ta
as talented as you?
Or am I being positioned tomaximize my talent?
And that, that's something Ialways appreciated about Coach
(11:08):
Brecht and just the program is Ialways felt like they were
trying to put me and other guysin spots to have you shine and
Right.
And hide your deficits away.
Mm-hmm.
Kinda maximize your upside.
Yeah.
Yep.
And, and give you like, hey,like you're not Jules, you're
not a great outside shooter.
I need you to get there.
But like in the meantime, like,let's put you in spots where
(11:29):
you're gonna be able to bearound the cage and do this and
do that.
And like now you can score fouror five goals a game.
We'll hide that you're not agood outside shooter.
Eventually they'll catch on.
Can you get better at that inthe meantime And mm-hmm.
So with, with that type ofmindset from Coach Breck, is
that something that got youstarting to think about getting
into coaching yourself orstarting to mentor players, you
know, that kind of encouragementand also your experience with
(11:51):
your Seton Hall coach?
I think, honestly, I always feltcompelled to really share any,
like, information that I get.
Like maybe, maybe even to afault, like hoping that people
would, would buy into it orcatch on.
And the reality is some peopleare just where they're at and
that they don't, they don't wantto do the work and they don't,
(12:13):
they don't wanna take it asseriously as I do, which is to,
it's totally fine.
Like it's no harm, no foul.
If you're my teammate, sometimesI, I like take that personally.
But everyone's in a differentposition.
That's just, you know, kind ofjust for me, for my life.
But I always felt that in, insport and in lacrosse.
So if I learned something, sawsomething on film you know, had
(12:34):
a technique, whatever it mightbe, like, I want everyone to
have it because I'm like, Hey,if this is helping me, I know
this can help you and if you getbetter, we're gonna get better.
And so I never felt like Iwanted to, to get better in a
vacuum.
I always wanted to share in, ingetting better with other
people.
And I think that was kind of thestart of it for me, like my sort
of passion or purpose aroundjust being a mentor, being a
(12:55):
coach, being a teacher.
And then I think when I got tocollege, something that I was
hoping for more of was personaldevelopment on the field.
And you realize fast that likethere's only three coaches, I
think now there's more paidpositions.
But back then, like yeah, we gotan offensive coordinator trying
to have 30 guys.
(13:16):
Right.
Better practice like that.
Very to do.
Yeah.
And, and that's something yousee.
'cause I kinda saw the samething, just coaching at a much
lower level on the travel level,but it's like, you don't have
time.
Like I just said, you've got 30guys you're working with,
there's no way you're gonna gettheir skills better.
So it was more that that plantedthe seed, but you're like, all
right, I could really help theseguys between practices and
(13:40):
really get their skills gearedup.
Is is that what you're exactlygetting into?
Yeah.
And, and that in other sports,like football, like there's a
receiver coach, there's an oldline coach there.
There's a coach.
Like we don't, we're not thereyet.
So I'm taking whateverinformation from Coach Mitchell
on the offensive side that hecan give me.
But like, he can't go out and dore extra reps with me, right.
(14:04):
Like this game of, all right,I'm gonna get developed in
practice, but only really forlike 15 or 20 minutes.
Then it's.
It's, we have to work on all theteam strategy stuff.
Yeah.
But where, where am I gonna totake, where am I gonna take
another step as a player?
It's gonna be in the summer, inthe wintertime and during, you
know, my two or three days ofextra work outside of practice,
(14:24):
deliberate extra work, we calledit outside of practice.
That, that really started tochange my not only trajectory as
a player, but also my mentally,how I viewed development.
And that I knew that if thatworked for me, that it could
work for others.
And so I, I just felt like noone, even to this day, like I
(14:44):
can talk about it till I'm bluein the face, but there's just
something about working on oneor two very specific skills, you
know, for 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8weeks in a row where you see the
growth of it.
Totally.
Yeah.
And you see it, it manifestsitself in the game.
And you're like, wait, I wasliterally working on that.
(15:06):
And then it, I built confidence.
Then I went for it and practicedand I went for it in the game
and it worked okay like thisbecause it's either you do that
or you're just so talented thatyou don't need to do that or, or
a mix of both.
And I think it's kind of getlost in that they have to be so
talented.
Or they're not gonna make it.
It's like, no, you just have toreally hone in on your, your
process of development.
(15:27):
Right.
And that's exactly what I'veseen too, timeframe wise.
Like, it kids will come out withyou a couple times, a couple
weeks.
It's more like six weeks.
Right.
You're just at six to eightweeks.
I feel like that is the magicnumber.
We've had a bunch of othercoaches on it.
It just takes that much time tokind of train them into whatever
it is you're, you're showing'emto do.
So that's very cool.
Good to, good to hear.
Jay (15:46):
How about if we transition to.
J m l and let's do that.
Ladies and gentlemen, I've gottasay I really love what Coach
Hanberg has just stated, andthat is it is not possible for a
player to improve their skillsat team practice because the way
you gain a skill, such as beingable to say, drop your hands and
(16:08):
shoot high accurately, is by itsvery nature, going to require
many, many repetitions.
Over the course of six to eightweeks before it becomes fluid,
dependable, and part of aplayer's muscle memory.
So a player cannot just starttrying something completely new
at a team practice'cause he orshe simply will not get the
(16:29):
repetitions that are necessaryto make that happen.
Not to mention a player willalso learn skills more quickly
and effectively when they workwith someone who is dedicated
many, many years to masteringthe game, such as a skills
trainer, skills trainers likeJules Henning and our prior
guests, Nick Tinel, JamieMonroe, and myself.
(16:52):
Every other sport has benefitedgreatly from players working on
their skills between practices.
With talented professionals,lacrosse skills trainers are
helping take the sport oflacrosse to the next level.
So don't get left behind.
Join the literally thousands ofplayers who have jumped on board
and are enjoying the ride.
(17:13):
If you wanna learn more, checkout these coaches' information
in our show notes, or check outthe JML YouTube channel also
listed in the show notes.
There, you'll find a number offree instructional videos listed
and you can always directmessage me for online or in
person training.
Now we will return to ourinterview and you will find that
interview in progress.
(17:36):
So as a pro, you know, you werefour time all star, as we were
saying in the opening and I wasjust looking at that first
season.
I remember that really well.
Where that 2019 season you gettraded to the redwoods and then
they get to the final.
And that finals game was justunbelievable.
It was like one to one after thefirst quarter and then it was
something like nine to one.
(17:57):
The whip snakes are winning.
And then you come all the wayback, tie it, and then you're
leading and then it goes intoot.
So tell us about that.
And then I just wanted to throwin there a stat that I was
looking at the statistics.
You know, you were an all starthat year in 2019, and you were
tied for second in the leaguefor points per game with Tommy
Schreiber and Connor Fields.
(18:18):
And then just like a decimalpoint behind Matt Rambo, who's
the MVP?
So you're, you're keeping prettygood company there.
Damn.
But, but tell us.
It was unbelievable.
That's so tell us a little bitabout that.
That's some serious company.
Oh my gosh.
Crazy.
So tell us about that, that yearand that situation, and then
with Na St.
Laurent just retiring, we'll,we'll throw that in as a follow
(18:38):
up, but just let's focus on the,the play and the players that
first year in the league.
Yeah.
Well, well to, to set the stage,Matt Rambo and I have been
playing against each other sincemy freshman year at Rutgers.
I've rarely got the best ofthem.
I have got the best of them afew times, but not when it's
mattered most.
And that's, I You have got thebest of'em.
I like to be, I've gotten thebest of'em.
(18:59):
But it speaks to Maryland and,and what they built there and
just you see it again this year,which they're doing it with, not
the talent that they had.
Yeah, that's crazy.
Back in, in 16, 17, 18, I mean,they had Bernhard, which now
Kelly Cock Rambo Brian Cole,who's in the NLL.
(19:22):
And then you have Mueller Burnlike you have.
Yeah.
All crazy talent.
Unbelievable.
Berlin.
Yeah.
Pro Hall of Fame level playersfor worked time winners up and
down the roster.
And then we have Rutgers andit's like we're going up against
these guys and we're competinglike every game was a fight.
Triple over time my junior yearwhere they won the national
(19:44):
championship, we, we lose themon Easter Sunday.
Wow.
And I always, you know, when,when we'd play against'em like
that, to me that was the, thatwas the biggest game of the
year.
Like that is we play Maryland.
Like you're locked in.
Everything matters, every groundball matters, every opportunity
to, to strike matters.
'cause if they get the ball,they're gonna strike.
They're gonna make it happen.
(20:04):
Mm-hmm.
And I just remember like, thatwas kind of my barometer that I
had to, to be competing at if Iwanted to be great because they
were, they were the, the bestteam in the country.
And my soft pretty, yeah, prettyhigh barometer.
Yeah.
And, but that, that was that forme though, that, that was great,
right?
Like there is no, no greatplayer unless you have a great
opponent at the end of the day.
(20:24):
And, and I felt like that waskind of Matt Rambo to me.
It was like he was the, thegreat opponent that I was trying
to, to really compete against.
And I remember my sophomoreyear, I was the only all Big 10
player that wasn't an AllAmerican first team, all Big 10
player.
But I led the conference ingoals and it was Rambo, it was
immense.
It was, you know, this guy, thatguy.
(20:46):
And so that kind of like, I waslike, okay, like is that'cause
I'm at Rutgers?
Is that'cause you know, wedidn't make the tournament.
I don't know, but I'm rightthere with like, I'm right there
with you.
Like I'm showing up, I'm doingit with a lot less talent.
So I knew if I was playing withsome, some more talented players
like you better Mac O'Keefe orsomebody like that.
(21:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like all, all time leading goldscorer, like n NCAA a history.
Right, right.
And we're playing with a bunchof ragtag guys.
We were good, but like we didnot have that like in the record
on our team.
Right.
And so fast forward to the PLLyou know, I was playing on the
whips, snakes, and I, and so nowI'm on the other side and I'm
looking and I'm like, we'regonna win the championship.
Like we are really good.
(21:27):
And we have a strong culture.
These guys show up every week.
They care, they're locked in.
We compete really hard and youjust look up in that locker
room.
And I was trying to play attack,like that was my natural
position and I just think Coachwas running me outta tech
sometimes he was running meoutta the box and it was, you
know, he made a decision whereit was a good decision for me in
(21:48):
my career at that point wherethey had Ryan Rener, they had
Ben Reeves tour time winner,Matt Rambo, Jay Carlson, who
becomes their starter for theirthree, their two championships
that they win.
And obviously Matt Rambo.
And so I was kind of the odd manout and so he traded me to the,
the Redwoods.
And that was great for me from adevelopment standpoint and kind
(22:10):
of like an opportunity for me toshine a little bit more where we
had far away more offensivetalent on the whip snakes than
we did on the Redwoods.
We had some talent to players,don't get me wrong, like
Kavanaugh Zi per we perfectly.
We had guys.
But I just don't think from a, acontinuity standpoint and a
pedigree standpoint, they had adifferent level of that on the
whips snakes.
So it gave me an opportunity to,to really have to do more and be
(22:34):
more, you know, be, have less ofa role player and more of like,
you have to, you have to do moreif we're gonna be good.
And I think also at that point,they had created these teams, so
they were missing Malloy who wasstill in MLL, Peter Baum went on
that team.
'cause he had just, I guess juststepped away, formerly retired.
And so there was a vacuum a bit.
(22:55):
And so that was a greatopportunity for me.
And statistically it was a greatyear and we made it to the
championships the last time Imade it to a championship in the
PLL.
And honestly, that's, that'swhat you're striving for.
Like the stats are cool, theaccolades are cool, but like, at
the end of the day, like winningis, is just the most rewarding
experience when you do it with agroup of people you care about
and you have that journeytogether.
(23:16):
And so that, that's really whatI'm ultimately searching for
and, and want out of my, mytime.
And I haven't had that yet.
And, you know, I'll do whateverit takes personally to just
develop myself and, and be thebest teammate, leader, whatever
I need to be to, to make thathappening.
'cause when you win with a, youknow, again, with a group of
people you care about, likethose are memories and
experiences, which I'm sure youguys can talk about.
(23:39):
You have'em for the rest of yourlife.
And that's what, that's whatlife's all about.
Right.
That's great.
Yeah, no, no doubt about it.
Tell us about coach Nat St.
Laurent, if you could.
Yeah.
Co coach Nat, I mean, in, insimilar fashion to Coach Brecht,
super loyal guy, believes in hisplayers.
And every time I would, I justremember something he would do,
like, he would always encourageme to just be myself, like.
(24:01):
He just wanted me nothing moreto just go out there, be Jules.
And when I, when I would do thatand, and I would, you know, show
up, like there was opportunitieswhere, you know, I was the best,
best player on the field on anygiven day.
And he, he saw that in me and,and wanted that outta me.
And I always appreciated him forthat and, and kind of that
belief.
And I think anyone that hasplayed for him can say that he
is, he is someone that has thatjust that energy and that
(24:24):
approach to, you know, reallyjust being there for his
players.
Mm-hmm.
Even to a fault sometimes, youknow, I think that they, the
coaches are put in a toughposition, starting to change a
little bit, but in that league,they're the GM and the head
coach.
Yeah.
You know, it's really hard be aguy that believes in someone so
much, but if they're not doingtheir job, they're not playing
well, maybe there's another guythey need to go get.
(24:44):
They're like kind of like torn,do I?
Right.
Right.
So I think, you know, you seeSelena got hired as a gm.
We got a gm, a coach withSpencer Ford on RC.
Yeah.
I think separates that and makesthe, makes it a little bit more
professional and, and makes thejob of the coach a little bit
easier.
Right.
And the coach really can be aplayer's coach and not have to
worry about that business sideof things.
Yeah.
(25:04):
Yep.
Cool.
So Jules, I was just thinking,you know, it's a, it's a pretty,
I love your story for youngkids, right?
Because I think so many of thesekids, and we, we've kind of
alluded to this, think there'sonly one path.
You know, there's only one way.
And like if ever there's ajourney to playing at the very
(25:25):
highest level of the game thattook a circuitous route, you
know it's yours.
Yeah.
And I think it's just such agreat thing for kids who,
especially in today's club era,I just think they think there's
this one way to get where youwant to get.
So it's just an amazing.
Story from where your, yourcareer started to where it's
come.
(25:45):
And, and I, and I just wanna seeif you can reflect a little bit
more, and you were just alludingto it, the state of professional
lacrosse and what it is to be apro lacrosse player.
You know, where do you see thatgame right now?
What's the next step?
Because, you know, for those whodon't know, it's not quite yet a
full-time gig.
(26:05):
Right, Jules?
And, you know, you're, it's alot of pressure on these guys
who have jobs and then you'rebasically coming in for a
weekend.
You don't get a ton of practicetime.
So talk about the experience ofbeing a professional or cross
player on those realities, andthen where your hopes are for,
for sort of the next stage ofprofessional lacrosse.
Yeah.
(26:25):
Honestly, I, I think it's it,it's definitely been tough
overall for me in, in my careerin that I, I've never been the
most talented player, so I'vealways had to find ways to.
Stay the course, get better.
And doing that in a, in a mannerwhere you're not with your team
all the time and you don't havea professional place to do it
(26:48):
out of, and you don't have thetrainers that you might have,
you're in the NFL or the NBA,like finding all those things.
It's the, the best players andthe guys that stay around the
longest are ones that sort ofcreate that, that space for
themselves in their own right.
Wherever they are in, in thecountry.
And that's always, that's alwayschanged for me.
Like, I lived in San Diego formy first year and I was playing
(27:10):
box.
Hmm.
So I was getting these box repsand I was doing that thing.
I had to stick in my hand allthe time.
I was doing that.
And then I would coach highschool and I would suit up with
the high school team and thenCovid hit, and then we were
doing nothing, right?
Like you were just literally byyourself or with your housemate,
so now you're not getting thatas much.
Then 21, 21 comes and I'm notplaying box and I'm moving back
(27:30):
to the East coast.
So now I'm, I'm gonna transitionwhere I'm like reevaluating
what, what it is that I'm doingto get better, like.
Finding new trainers, new, youknow, new this, new that.
I haven't quite gotten back intolike having the high school
program, but now I am and I havemore time than I've ever had
this year for training.
So like it's always beendifferent and I think some guys
(27:51):
are just so talented that itdoesn't matter when you think
about just like your careerwindow, like the NBA guys aren't
really coming into their ownuntil like year 5, 6, 7, and
then they're looking at likeseven to 14 as like their prime.
And maybe you start to dwindledown.
Like Steph Curry's probablydwindling down now.
Well, bronze not dwindling down,which is right.
(28:14):
But you know, you look at someof these guys and they're just,
the time it takes for them todevelop is so different.
Where in pro lacrosse, it's likeyou get outta college and a lot
of people think that that's yourbest year.
That was, I knew that was notgonna be my best year was outta
college.
My rookie season in Florida, Ihad a, I had a great year.
I was second rookie in theleague in points.
(28:35):
And I, I did very well, but Iwas on a team.
We weren't very, you know, verysuccessful as a team overall in
Florida.
Had a great experience.
But then I was like, I, I wannafigure out ways to get better.
And I think some guys have this,this window of time where
they're looking at like, I'monly gonna have a seven or eight
year career anyway.
So I'm just, I don't, I don't,I'm so talented that I don't
(28:56):
really need to do as much.
Like I can just really go be mefor seven years and I'm, I'm
good, I'm done.
Where I think the next stage ofthis is, hey, like you come
outta college and like, that'snot your best year.
Like that's your rookie season.
You need to find a role, youneed to find a way to get on the
field.
And now, like, how do you buildevery year so that by year five,
(29:21):
not only are you gettingcompensated appropriately to
where you feel like you're.
Pro, but like you're kind ofstepping into your own at 25,
26, 27, where like now you're inyour prime.
Like I think we've missed a lotof guys primes because they're,
maybe they're not, they don'ttake care of their bodies as
much'cause they don't have thetrainers, the nutrition, this,
that, and the third, like,you're 30, like you should be
(29:42):
peaking physically, youshouldn't be.
Mm-hmm.
And I think that, that, that'sbeen something I've been
fortunate where I've alwaysbuilt and I've figured out ways
to do it.
But I've seen the struggle formyself.
And I know other guys are, I'mdoing that as a full-time
lacrosse guy.
Other guys jobs in New York Cityand, and maybe they're three
martini lunches, steak dinners,literally.
(30:04):
So off, man, I've been veryfortunate with it.
I think the next stage is, is wedo have to get paid more.
Like we did take a step forwardin 2019 that the, the wages have
not gone up since then.
But I think they have to be ableto tell a college kid, like.
Hey, no other job.
You are a full-time player withthis league.
We can compensate you as suchand we need you to be training
(30:26):
year round and we want, youknow, in five years for you to
look up and your salary's goingup again.
So have something to lookforward to instead of kind of,
you know, stagnating, which Ithink we're stagnating a little
bit and I'm excited to see whatkind of the next phase is.
But like, that's been, it's beenan upward trend and now I think
we're, we're kind of here andwe're waiting for that next
(30:47):
jolt, whether it's the Olympics,whether it's the game.
Yeah, I, I was just gonna say,it seems like, it seems like so
much seems to be riding in termsof the popularity of the sport
and that next big spike forwardin, in what's might be possible
with the Olympics.
Yeah, yeah.
So yeah, we, we will see.
I'm hopeful though.
(31:08):
Yeah.
Well Jules, the other thing I,I.
You know, it, it wasinteresting.
I see a couple of lines whereyou talked about at Rutgers,
right?
Needing to understand that evenwhen you are around a team five,
six days a week and have thatpractice, you gotta have that
individual growth mindset,right?
(31:29):
Because the reality of the, theindividual development time.
And so it seems like that servedyou well in the PLL where that's
even, I don't know, it's 10times the reality there, right?
I mean, you, you just have solittle time around your team
that if you're not gettingbetter on your own or you're not
just ridiculously talented, it'sjust not gonna happen.
(31:51):
It, it's true.
And, and there are a lot ofguys, don't get me wrong, and
it's not just a PLL, you seethis in the NBA.
I don't know if you see it inthe NFL as much just because of
how physically demanding thatthat sport is.
But definitely in the NBA, yougot guys that are just, you
know, they're on multimilliondollar contracts and, and this
guy, you hear you hear storiesabout this guy you hear stories
about this guy You hear, youhear what?
(32:14):
What is it that you hear aboutthis guy to find out.
Tune in next week.
Until we meet again.
Here's to hoping you find thetwine.
We're signing off here at theget the lax scoop.
Thanks again so much.
We will see you the next time.
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