April 16, 2025 • 34 mins
In this episode of 'Get the Lax Scoop,' hosts Big Dawg and Jaybird interview four-time Pro Lacrosse All-Star and founder of the LAX Lab, Jules Heningburg. Heningburg shares his journey from collegiate lacrosse player at Rutgers to becoming one of the most influential figures in modern lacrosse. The discussion touches on the importance of an individual growth mindset, particularly in professional settings where personal development is crucial. They explore Heningburg's dedication to skills training through the LAX Lab, emphasizing the importance of footwork and offensive strategies. The conversation expands to the creation of the Black Lacrosse Alliance, aiming to increase diversity within the sport, and the importance of mentorship and mindset development for young players via Mission Prime. The episode underscores the vital role of hard work, consistency, and mental resilience in achieving success in lacrosse and beyond.
00:00 Introduction to Get the Lax Scoop Podcast
00:23 Meet the Hosts and Special Guest
01:00 Welcome to the Show
01:29 Interview with Jules Heningburg Begins
01:40 The Importance of Individual Growth
02:13 Balancing Talent and Hard Work
04:41 Jules' Journey and the LAX Lab
05:16 The Evolution of LAX Lab
08:03 Impact of Skills Training
12:37 The Black Lacrosse Alliance
13:12 Challenges and Opportunities for Black Players
18:05 The Boost Camp Initiative
20:40 Lacrosse Camps in Maryland and New Jersey
21:58 Harlem Lacrosse and Community Impact
23:21 Mission Prime: Philosophy and Approach
31:10 The Importance of Mental Preparation
32:50 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
NEW BOOK!
Inside the Recruiting Game: Insights From College Lacrosse Coaches
-Available on Amazon.com as an Ebook and paperback
Links to training videos:
Master The 5 Best Dodges From the Wing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_7LDOcQQ6Q&t=88s
Blazing Shots... on the Run!
https://youtu.be/XiptPlM63oQ
Check us out...
On YouTube @jaymcmahonlax23
On Instagram @jaymcmahonlax23
On Facebook @: facebook.com/jmcmahonlax23. Page name: Jay McMahon Lacrosse
Jules Heningburg: https://thelaxlab.com/
Check out!... Coach Tintle's Lacrosse Barn:
https://g.co/kgs/eXedCXf
SuccessHotline with Dr. Rob Gilbert on Ironclad & Apple Podcasts
Brian Cain Daily Dominator on Apple Podcasts
Lacrosse Charities Mentioned in S2 E36:
https://www.4thefuturefoundation.org/
https://www.harlemlacrosse.org/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
It's time for Get the LackScoop, a podcast bringing you
all the people and stuff youshould know in the game of
lacrosse.
We take lack seriously, butourselves, not so much.
Join host Big Dog and Jaybirdand the biggest names in the
game brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training.
(00:23):
Ron Doglish, the big dog, was acollegiate football and lacrosse
player at Brown.
He was also an assistantlacrosse coach and the executive
director of the SportsFoundation.
And Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, athree time All American
midfielder at Brown.
He was the captain of the U.
S.
Junior National Team and is thefounder of JML.
(00:43):
And Joining us in the studio,Steve Grisolfi, who's collegiate
lacrosse career statisticsequals one goal against
Dartmouth brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training, helping the
next generation of lacrosseplayers get to the next level
Hello everyone, and for thosewho are new to the show,
(01:03):
welcome.
We're super excited to releasethis episode of our three-part
interview series with four timePro lacrosse.
All-star and founder of the LAXLab, Jules Henning burg.
If you have not heard the priorsession, we strongly encourage
you to go back and check it out.
It was both intriguing andinsightful.
(01:23):
You'll find this interview inprogress.
We hope you enjoy.
Well Jules, the other thing I,I.
You know, it, it wasinteresting.
I see a couple of lines whereyou talked about at Rutgers,
right?
Needing to understand that evenwhen you are around a team five,
(01:44):
six days a week and have thatpractice, you gotta have that
individual growth mindset,right?
Because the reality of the, theindividual development time.
And so it seems like that servedyou well in the PLL where that's
even, I don't know, it's 10times the reality there, right?
I mean, you, you just have solittle time around your team
(02:05):
that if you're not gettingbetter on your own or you're not
just ridiculously talented, it'sjust not gonna happen.
It, it's true.
And, and there are a lot ofguys, don't get me wrong, and
it's not just a PLL, you seethis in the NBA.
I don't know if you see it inthe NFL as much just because of
how physically demanding thatthat sport is.
But definitely in the NBA, yougot guys that are just, you
(02:26):
know, they're on multimilliondollar contracts and, and this
guy, you hear stories about thisguy doesn't put any work in the
gym.
You know, he, he kind of justshows up.
Maybe he's staying out late andhe's a, he's an Allstar, he's a
maybe even a all pro player.
You know, you hear the storiesof the James Hardens and the
Paul Georges and like, right,right guys.
And like, then you have theLeBron James of the world, or
(02:47):
the Steph Currys or you know,guys that you just know are,
they're in the gym working ontheir craft.
And that's, that's, that's whothey are.
Kobe Bryant to the world.
Yeah, that's what they do.
And I always tell people there'slike an axis for that.
Like there's, there's talent andthere's hard work, and you
gotta, you gotta get real withyourself around kind of where
you fall on, on this axis.
And whatever your, youraspirations are, just be, you
(03:11):
have to have some moreawareness, some more
self-reflection.
Hey, if I'm, if I'm this guy isthis talented and I'm this
talented, well, he does not haveto work as hard as I have to
work for us to get to the sameplace.
And that's un that's unfair, butthat's just the reality.
And I think, you know, Ron, toyour point with, with kids,
(03:32):
that's exacerbated by likesocial media and just all these
things that they're dealingwith.
When I, I can, I can look at akid in eighth grade and just
say, Hey, look, this is yourtrajectory.
You are this talented right now,and you work this hard.
If you work this hard, this isthe potential you have.
(03:53):
But if you don't do that, thereis no X, y, z or you're this
talented Right?
But you don't work that hard,you better start working harder.
Because I like, as you getolder, that talent starts to
dissipate a little bit.
Starts to go down.
You're the big eight.
People start catching up.
Yeah.
Like you, well you're, you'rekind of slow though.
So you don't wanna be the, thebig eighth grader, ninth grader
(04:15):
that could run through everyoneright now.
But, but then that, that eighth,ninth grader that hasn't gone
through puberty yet, he startsto go through puberty, he puts
on that muscle and he'sdeveloping everything.
And now he's here and you'rehere.
Right.
And you didn't develop a workethic'cause you were just, I'm
the biggest, fastest, strongest.
And, and now you're not gonnaget to where you want to go,
which again, it's not foreveryone at the end of the day.
Which is all good too, right?
(04:35):
Yeah.
So, I mean, Jules, it seems likeyou might be the busiest guy in
the game of lacrosse.
I mean, there, there's verylittle in the game you're not
doing, you founded the LAX lab,you're the founding, you're a
founding member of the BlackLacrosse Alliance and Mission
Prime.
So it's really cool to see theway that you're given back to
(04:56):
the game.
But, but let's talk about yourskills training program and the
LAX lab which I know yourbrother's currently the director
of.
Tell us how that came to be andhow that's evolved and how you
and your brother think abouttraining the next generational
lacrosse players.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
I, I appreciate you asking aboutthat.
(05:16):
I think when I graduated, itwas, it was just the Duke lab,
like, Hey, we're gonna work onoffensives talent, offensive
skill sets, shooting, dodgingfootwork, that I felt like were
in college.
Really what elevated my game,like, Hey, I need to get better
at attacking my matchup.
Or I get these step down shotsfrom the point, and I really
(05:38):
need to get better at just likehammering this shot or.
I need to get better at turningthe corner, like very specific
offensive things that, again, inmy individual opportunity and to
get better, I was working on.
And so when I was travelingaround the country when I first
graduated, and figuring outwhat, what this lacrosse thing
looked like and, and what itwould mean to be a full-time
(05:58):
player in 2018.
'cause we were only getting paid$6,000 at that time.
A full-time player meant you hadto find sponsorships, you had to
do camps and clinics, you had todo things to make it happen.
Yeah.
That would make you morerelevant in the game and like
allow you to build a profile andyou know, do something outside
of just playing because playingwasn't enough.
And so it started with the Jukelab and it was kind of like
funny, like at the, at firstwhen I would say it to guys, I'd
(06:20):
be like, yeah, I started thisthing called Juke Lab and then I
would just take videos of thestuff we were doing and, and I
realized, I was like, it's kindof catching on, but like, no
one's really like focusing onfootwork or like offensive
development and like putting iton social media and like talking
about it in, in a.
Strategic way.
And so I kind of just started todo that.
(06:41):
And then I realized like, fastforward now a lot of people do
it.
And so it's cool.
Like I'm glad that it's, it'sgrown.
But what I also realized is Iwas kind of pigeonholing myself
a little bit where that was goodfor me running around the
country, but like I would go toplaces where, hey, you know, you
guys do not need footwork, youneed stick work.
(07:02):
You need to understand thisstuff.
Right?
Or mentally, yeah, before westart talking about your feet or
this shot or that.
And so I wanted to give myselfthe opportunity to expand,
right?
So that's where lax lab kind ofcame in.
I kept a lab, like that was a, arunning joke, like when we were
growing up with my brothers too.
We would just be like, yo, wegotta get in the lab.
Like, yo, you've been in thelab, like you've been working,
(07:23):
like when's the last, I went tothe field three times this week.
Like, when's the last time youhit the field?
So it was kind of always thisthing and I was like, why don't
I just use that and, and runwith it?
And it's a family business nowtoo, which is cool.
And kind of how we all came upin the game.
And I think the LAX lab wasreally, when I got to New
Jersey, I realized we were doingthe skills training, we're doing
(07:44):
juke lab stuff, but the kids inNew Jersey, they're, you know,
not everyone has the recexperience that I had with dads
that played and have the, justwere instilled in them the work
ethic and the, the history ofthe game and the determination
and kind of just, I, I would saylike the spark that I had.
And I think that that's the, thething we give to these guys the
(08:06):
most is, yeah, sure we trainsome talented players, but like
my favorite player in the worldto train is a kid that like,
doesn't know how good he can beand isn't otherwise getting that
spark instilled in him, whetherit's because he is not playing
other, I played other sports.
I played basketball like mybasketball coach.
That's the greatest athleticexperience I've had to date is
(08:29):
my middle school basketballcoach.
I'm actually gonna talk to.
10 year, no, not 10 years, Iguess.
14, 15 year reunion.
We won three championships,sixth, seventh, eighth grade,
and middle school basketball.
Wow.
Never done that in the historyof the program, even to this
day.
And we had a ton of greatathletes on that team, guys that
played D one, D two, D three ina variety of different sports,
(08:50):
including basketball.
And he was, we were 11 and 12,and it was no joke.
It was, you know, we're, it wasthe most serious thing in the
world.
And I was, I was like, allright, like the, I, I'm, I'm
locked in.
Like this is the most seriousthing for me.
I was very impressionable and Ihad positive influences that
(09:12):
made impressions on me.
And so when I see kids, I cantell that I'm like, yo, you're
just not getting that.
And the lacrosse is one aspectto it, but like, I need to spark
something in you.
And we can use lacrosse as theavenue, but it's more just
building belief and confidencein someone who is.
At a crucial point in theirlife, like 12, 13, where
(09:32):
they're, they're going throughpuberty.
They're seeing social media now,which is crazy.
They're, they're having allthese things happen.
I'm like, no, dude.
Like, yo, put in work, see theresults, and then like, now
that's a blueprint for you.
You did the work, you saw itworked.
Let's keep at this, let's keepbuilding.
And then you watch it for a yearand two years.
And we have kids that have nobusiness being good at lacrosse,
(09:52):
who are now just like, good.
And they're feeling themselves.
I'm like, yes, that's good.
Like, and that's, that's myfavorite kind of kid in the
world.
And that's really what the LAXlab is all about is, is like we
genuinely care about your kid.
We know he plays club, a lot ofthem.
Most kids play club.
The club coaches don't haveenough time.
They, they have to worry aboutthe tournaments through
recruiting all these things.
(10:12):
We're gonna just focus on you asa person and a player and train
you and then go out to your clubteam and, and go perform.
Like go be.
You go bring that, that beliefthat you built working on your
own, not just with us, but.
Now I'm telling you, it's notjust with me.
You need to do it in thebackyard.
Go bring that to your recprogram, your high school
program, your club program.
And we believe over time we'regonna be able to transform young
(10:35):
men's and women's lives throughthat.
Jay (10:37):
How about if we transition to.
J m l and let's do that.
and from what Coach Henningerjust said, I would say he's
absolutely 100% spot on.
We've had skills trainers on theprogram such as Andy Towers,
Rick Beardsley, Jamie Monroe,Nick Tinel and I, myself, have
(10:57):
been a dedicated lacrosse skillstrainer for over four years now.
And we have all come to learn.
It's a really special endeavor.
Why?
Well, just as Jules mentioned,it's because we're able to spend
a significant amount of timewith a young person on a daily
basis at a pivotal point intheir life.
During that time together, we'reable to demonstrate to them that
(11:20):
they are better than they thinkthey are, and that they can
become far better than they everdreamed they could be.
By utilizing tested, tried, andproven techniques.
It is that one-on-one or smallgroup connection that gives a
coach the opportunity to reallyhave an impact on a player's
game as well as their mindset,and that leads to better
(11:41):
performance and far moreenjoyment while playing
lacrosse.
On top of all that, thediscipline increased self-esteem
as well as their improvedmindset, ripples out to enhance
their approach to literallyeverything they're doing in life
on this program.
We're interested in growing thegame of lacrosse for the love of
the game.
But also for the benefits thisgame can bring to the
(12:03):
development of strong,independent, engaged young
people who are ready to get towork on making the world a
better place.
So if this sounds like somethingyou or your son would be
interested in, check out theinformation on the JML program
and the training programs of ourguests in the show notes below.
Now we will return to ourinterview and you will find that
(12:24):
interview in progress.
And that will help, you know,New Jersey, but we're expanding,
we're in Connecticut and youknow, we'll continue to, to move
to different markets as well.
That's great.
Good stuff.
And you know, looking at theother organizations you had
started, you're one of thefounding members of the Black
Lacrosse Alliance and you know,Ron and I, and I mean everyone
(12:46):
agrees for sure the sport canbenefit from more diversity and
it's just great to see you andyour brother and other guys
getting out there and, andbuilding that.
You know, we support itfinancially, but to actually be
putting in the time.
So tell us and the audience moreabout the Black Lacrosse
Alliance and I, I.
Looked at the webpage, it's veryimpressive.
(13:06):
What are some of the things thatyou guys, your objectives are
your goals and, and that you'reworking on?
Yeah, so the, the Black LacrosseAlliance started back in, in
2020.
And I think it was, obviouslyeverything was happening in the
world at that time in terms ofcivil rights and just kind of
the, I would say we were stuckin Covid and there was a lot of
things going on, and I think wehad to do something as players
(13:31):
to just number one, like, hey,like we have a story, like
everyone's got a story.
Mm-hmm.
But simply if you're, if you'rea black player in lacrosse, like
you probably have a story andsomething that happened to you
and, and something that is justdifferent than if you're someone
else.
Right.
Like, and I think native playersalso share that experience too.
And I'm not gonna say otherminority groups don't, but like,
(13:53):
if you're native, usually you'rea growing up experience playing
lacrosse.
Like it's just a completelydifferent.
Experience altogether.
Mm-hmm.
Growing up on a reservation,maybe you're trying to, you're
playing box and you're, you'replaying with all your, your
native teammates and you guysare gonna play different teams.
And like you talk about the beefthat, like how intense those
matches are and what happens outthere.
(14:15):
And then if you're a blackplayer, like oftentimes, you
know, there aren't a lot ofblack players that, that are
playing lacrosse.
It's, I think it's actually,it's grown tremendously.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Which is amazing.
But I think with that, like,it's really just opportunity
right?
At the end of the day.
And I think if you talk to blackplayers, the play, the game, the
shared experience, and, and forme it's different because my
(14:37):
black, being black, which isbeing black means so many
different things in the world,but like, I think there's a,
there's a cultural side to it.
I think that there, it's yourskin color.
I, I think that, you know,sometimes it's people's
politics.
Like there's so many ways thatpeople sort of look at that.
But like, I always, I alwaysviewed it as.
My dad raised me a certain way,and the way that I approached
(15:00):
things was like, Hey, we, hegrew up in a different time
during segregation, right?
Mm-hmm.
There was, he had to, he had todo things differently to get
ahead in the world, and hewanted to make sure that I knew
you want to be a black person inthe world.
Like you, you can't ever letanyone count, count you out,
right?
You have to do, you have to goabove and beyond.
(15:20):
And I think the cool thing aboutthat too is like, it's just good
lessons for you as a person.
Right.
I also realize as an adult, likethe main separator for me is
just consistency and hard work.
Like, I don't do a lot of timeanything special, like I'm just
trying to get better on my ownand, and trying to show up every
day and, and be a better versionof myself.
But like he would say, Hey, youknow, you really have to be
(15:43):
twice as good to get half thecredit I'm buying into that.
I'm showing up to practiceearly, getting my shots up.
I'm trying to be first insprints.
I'm trying to make sure that Ihave the grades so that anyone
that looks at my progress reportcan't ever be like, ah, you're
not gonna cut it.
I'm trying to stay afterpractice and do more, because I
never wanted anyone to say like,Jules isn't doing enough.
Or, or Jules, it could, thatcould never be the narrative.
(16:04):
'cause if it was my dad wasgonna have my ass because he's,
this is not gonna be in myhousehold, you're, if you're a
young black man, you have to dogo above and beyond because some
of my other black friendsgrowing up, like they, that's
not how they were being taughtand disciplined.
Like they and I, it shows, itshowed in their work ethic, it
(16:24):
showed in their school and itshowed, it shows now in like,
where am I in my life?
Where are they in their lives?
And I think a lot of that too ismy skin color.
I'm not as dark as, as some ofmy brothers and my dad.
And so I was afforded differentopportunities.
Like the conversation with me asa black player was different
than with some of my other blackteammates.
(16:45):
And so I could, I knew that, Icould tell that that wasn't.
That was a fact, first of all.
And it people, I think all thisis so, like, it's so crazy in
the world that we're in, peopletalk about these things, but I
think the, the most importantthing is you look at people's
experiences.
You just talk to someone, Hey,like, what was your experience
like this?
My experience was, was my blackteammates and my black friends
(17:08):
had a different experience forbeing black than I did because I
wasn't as dark as them.
Hmm.
So that right away is like,okay, they're having a different
experience now you just askblack lacrosse players.
Well, what was your experiencelike?
Most guys are gonna say, Hey,there's something happened to
me, or, or I was treated acertain way, or I was looked at,
or maybe I'm not sure if thecoach was really judging me
(17:29):
differently.
And that's where I think when2020 came around, it was all of
us as players were, Hey, wehappen to be on the biggest
like, stage in the game.
Mm-hmm.
Like, what can we do to shareour, our message and, and also.
To that point, A guy like KyleHarrison, he, he's been sharing
(17:49):
his experience as a black playerfor 20 years, and I think it was
mm-hmm.
That, like our generation said,Hey, like, we also have an
experience, we have a message toshare.
And I think that's where it wasborn.
And I think it started as like,Hey, we all wanna share this,
but like, what can we do to takeaction?
And so I think to date the mostimpactful thing we've done, we
started the Boost Camp, which weran for four years, and we took
(18:12):
it off last year, but we'recoming back with it this year.
Which is just an opportunity forus to, to go out there as, as
black players connect with thenext generation.
And I think really justhighlight the game, like
highlight players of differentbackgrounds and sell it to them
and, and show, like, especiallywith the Olympics coming up,
like, this is a world game.
(18:33):
You know?
Like this is national game.
Basketball's an internationalgame, soccer is an international
game.
There's so many people who lookcompletely different than you.
Who play a different style thanyou, who come from a different
culture than you who wanna sharein, in this game.
And if you, to me, that's backto opportunity.
(18:53):
If lacrosse is gonna get to thelevel we know it can get to,
it's gotta be more accessible toeveryone.
And people have gotta be giventhe opportunity to fall in love
with it, to develop their ies,to develop their iq.
And if you do that, let let thecards fall, fall as they may.
They're as gonna be players ofwhether you're white, you're
Indian, you're, you're nativeAmerican, you're Asian, you're
(19:15):
Phil.
I don't care what you are.
But I always felt like my, a lotof my teammates growing up who
were black, it was like, you,yo, you're playing, you're just
playing that sport over there.
And I'm like, what do you mean?
This is a great game.
I love it.
Also, first of all, I'm betterthan you at basketball.
Let's start with that.
So, right.
Maybe I'm doing something thatyou should be doing if you wanna
(19:36):
get better.
Right.
I like it.
I'm like, come over, come playwith me.
And it was always like, ah, Idon't, I don't really feel
comfortable and this and that.
And I, I understood it.
Like I understood why, becausethe, maybe the co, the coach
wasn't in their community or thithis, that, and the third, and
that if all my basketballteammates, we were playing
lacrosse together, our teamwould've been unbelievable.
Mm-hmm.
(19:56):
Like if they were as good as mewith the athleticism they had,
and as high IQ I have, Iwould've had teammates that were
way better than me at lacrosse.
Yeah.
So we're excited to bring thebootcamp back this year.
And you know, to me, again, likeI, I just think I've been
afforded a lot of opportunities,whether it's because of the
color of my skin, whether it'sbecause of the, the way that my
(20:16):
dad raised me, whether it's the,the coaches that I had when I
was young, I want.
Everyone to have thatopportunity.
And right now, the, the realityis not everyone has that
opportunity and Right.
You know that.
So it's like a matter of givingthem the exposure and then they
can get a little more familiarwith it and then comfortable
with it seeing pros like youand, and other guys coming out
(20:38):
and Exactly.
And running the camp.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And I, you know, I think youknow, do you do the camp in New
Jersey or where do, do you guysdo it?
We've done it in Maryland, so Ithink we're good work in
Maryland.
Again.
I think it's a good hub.
Obviously there, there's a tonof lacrosse in Maryland, right.
Baltimore and then you have, youknow, there's dog from Maryland.
He's always talking aboutMaryland, but you know, oh, I
was gonna say, thank God we go africking Maryland mention, as
(21:00):
you said, one on Long Island andNew Jersey.
Come on.
It's sort of New York NewJersey's sort of the hub.
It is the hub.
It is, it is the hub.
I, I dunno.
Thank you.
Thank you Joy.
Thank you.
Oh, you don't have to say that.
I know.
Kind of like you guys have greathigh school across Long Island
players.
Those are the.
To me the best lacrosse playersthey got.
Oh, thank you.
(21:21):
Whatcha hear it?
Whatcha talking?
Telling the truth, Ron.
I hate to say it, but you knowwhy it is, is that you guys have
all your, your parents and auntsand uncles, everyone played,
right?
Everyone goes back to the of,of, oh.
And then that's just what it is.
So Ron, the truth comes out.
Thank you Jules.
(21:42):
I'm a New Jersey guy.
Ju Jules.
Jules, we were getting along.
Jules.
Best player in the country thatwe're getting along famously
Jules and I.
Terrible sign of your judgment.
Truth, Ron.
Truth he big cursed.
Best player in the country.
Hey, there you go.
Love it.
Hey also wanted, I know Jay, youmentioned.
It's been really cool for us.
(22:03):
You know, we played for DomStaria Brown, who's been a big
part of Harlem Lacrosse and youknow, Mike Levin, who's another
brown alum who runs thatorganization.
And we've had Mike and someother folks involved with Harlem
Lacrosse on the podcast.
And it's just so cool to seethat kind of community that's
(22:24):
creating this pipeline.
And now that those kids havepeople like you and and the
alliance to look up to, youknow, your peers, like
absolutely.
There, there, you know, as yousaid, we got a long way to go,
but there were very few modelsand you know, now there are more
and more role models like youand your peers and you see more
(22:46):
and more players, whether whoare just playing on their teams
or the work that I.
The work that Mike and theHarlem Lacrosse had doing.
And it's, it's an exciting stagefor the game.
And you do hope, again, not toput it all on the Olympics, but
that kind of exposure.
Yeah.
'cause it's such a fricking, Imean, you talk about basketball,
it's got that same sense of flowand energy and excitement, you
(23:10):
know?
So anyway, it's it's really coolto see what you're doing and you
know, we can't, you got one moreorganization.
I mean, we, we just keep going.
Right?
I was really gotta get to thislast organization.
That's very cool too.
I was really, it was really coolto see the mission prime
philosophy and, and Jules, I, I,I obviously was looking at the
website, not having heard youtalk about your dad and the way
(23:33):
you were raised and the valuesand like hearing you talk about
it.
And what I read on the website,it seems like there's a pretty.
Clear connection there, right?
That you just think that there'san approach, there's a way of
going about things that forgetabout your footwork, forget
about your step down.
You know, if you arefundamentally approaching life
(23:55):
and lacrosse in these ways thatyou're, you're gonna find
success however you want todefine that.
So, so tell us.
I mean, it's one thing to saythose words, it's a whole other
thing to take that into anorganization.
So, so talk to us about MissionPrime and that kind of unique
approach to lacrosse in life.
(24:15):
I think you, you hit the nail onthe head there, Ron.
I felt like I don't try andbutter me up after that Long
Island comment, Jules.
All right.
Look, dog, transition dog.
Don't be insulted by the truth.
I think when I was at Rutgersagain, like I realized that all
right, there's talent, right?
But the, the guy Iggy do youguys know that guy Iggy?
He is kind of, he, he lost his,his arm a little bit or
(24:38):
something happened to him andhe, like, does motivational
speaker played like football?
I literally saw him on my, on myTikTok like yesterday and he was
talking about what do you dowhen there's two players who
have the exact same talent goingup against each other?
We're all at the exact sametalent.
What's gonna win the game?
(24:58):
Mm-hmm.
It's gonna come down tocharacter.
How hard, how bad do you want itbeing relentless, right?
Are you conditioned?
Can you last at the fourquarters better than anyone
else?
He was talking about thesethings and, and I think that,
that when I got to Rutgers,that's what I realized.
I was like, there's a lot ofguys that are talented.
I have guys that are moretalent, literally more talented
(25:20):
than me on this Rutgers team.
But like, I know something thatyou don't know, which is like,
I'm just gonna be moreconsistent than you.
And I, or I'm gonna work harderthan you, or I'm just gonna care
more than you.
I don't know if it's'cause you,maybe you just don't want it as
much, which is totally fine.
But we're both on the team.
You have talent, I have talent,but I'm gonna figure out a way
to maximize my talent.
(25:41):
And I just always feel likethat's something that I took a
lot of pride in, starting withmy time at Rutgers.
And as did a lot of my teammatesand I felt like a lot of kids go
to college, specificallylacrosse players, and it's, they
get there in their freshman yearand it's like, oh, I'm not
playing.
And oh, it's, it's done.
You know?
I'm like, dude, you're 10 timesthe lacrosse player that I was,
(26:03):
and you're telling me that youcan't figure out a way to get on
the field or figure out a way tomaximize who you are.
You just, you don't have theright approach.
That's it.
And you either, you're buying,we know how our college coaches
are, it's division one lacrosse.
These guys are.
These guys are getting paid alot of money and their families
are riding on this and like, soit's gonna be tough.
It, you're, you signed up for a,a big boy sport, so you're not
(26:26):
gonna get your handheld all thetime and you're not, you're
gonna have to figure out on yourown, what am I gonna do to, to
separate myself and, and be whoI want to be in the game?
Don't let anyone else defineyour journey.
And that's something that I hadto come to on my own when I was
at Rutgers, which I struggledwith a little in my freshman
year, but I came back mysophomore year.
I'm like, I'm not gonna let youknow.
What, what does Coach Breck sayon Monday versus what he says on
(26:48):
Thursday?
I don't care.
He, he could tell me on the bestthing.
And since sliced bread on Mondayand on Thursday, he's
motherfucking me being like, oh,you're not doing this, I'm doing
that.
I'm not gonna let this dictateme.
I'm not gonna let you know onebad practice dictate.
I'm not, I'm not gonna letanything dictate.
I gotta, I gotta be processfocused.
And it's a journey.
And that's a big thing twopeople miss, is it is the
(27:09):
journey and it goes by fast.
Mm-hmm.
But that's the fun in all of it.
Like the journey, like whatyou're doing on the journey.
And how you're expecting that.
And so when I graduated, I waslike, how can I make an impact
and connect with some of thebest players in the country and
share that with them?
Because I, I know a lot of thesekids are gonna go to school and,
you know, there might be betterplayers in them that are older
(27:29):
than them, and there might bemore recruits coming in behind
them.
But like, whatever you want todo as a player, like set that
for you.
Right?
And, and, and go after that anddon't let anyone else define
that for you.
And that's where Mission Prime Kkind of came about.
And it's evolved from just anevent that we would run with
seniors going into college tomentorship off the field.
(27:52):
And now working with our youngerplayers too, where, you know,
again, like a lot of the, theirexperience is they play rec,
they play club and they don'thave, you know, anyone else
talking about these things.
Like their, some of theirparents are talking about it,
but I.
My dad played college basketballat a high level and you know, he
had experiences where he knewwhat it would take.
(28:13):
So he surrounded me with peopleand put me in spots.
I was doing crazy, crazy things.
At a young age, we would go tomy cousin's house who played in
the NFL.
His name's Brian Holloway andwas called Camp Holloway.
And his sons were division onefootball players.
These guys were monsters.
And I'm this little sixthgrader.
I haven't gone through pubertyyet, and we're going up there
(28:34):
and they're benching 300 pounds,squatting it, doing that.
And he's waking us up at fouro'clock in the morning and being
like, Hey hey, we're run.
We're going, we're going for arun.
Hey, five o'clock in themorning, you're gonna jump rope.
Hey, six o'clock we're doingthis.
And I'm like, 11.
And you know, I think some ofthese kids, they don't get these
things, they don't get theseexperiences.
They don't, they don't haveanyone talking about this.
(28:54):
'cause their dad is a doctor andit's like their dad.
Maybe they're athletic and maybethe kid's athletic too, but
they're, I'm like, yo guys.
I don't even want to hear aboutthis, that, and the third, you
guys aren't doing half thethings that I was doing when I
was your age, and I'm moretalented than you.
So we gotta have a conversationaround what are your, what do
(29:14):
you want out of this?
And no one's really having thatconversation.
And then no one's giving themlike, tools to like navigate it
after.
So it's like a, it's a two partthing.
It's like, let's get seriousabout the conversation off the
field.
You know, let's not talk aboutyour shooting.
You're dodging, let's talk aboutwhat do you want outta this
game.
Whether in terms of your, yourlife and what do you want out of
(29:35):
it from, you know, on field?
What do you wanna be, do youwanna go to college one day?
Do you wanna just play varsitylacrosse?
And then what's your approachgonna be?
And that, that's kind of whatMission Prime is, is evolved
into.
And yeah, I'm excited for that.
And it's, it's not a huge partof what we, it's not a huge part
of what we do.
It's kind of the philosophy ofLaxs Lab and it's our event.
Mm-hmm.
And then it's small things, butit, it's slowly developing more
(29:57):
and more to, people want thatand I know they need it, so I'm
excited for it.
Yeah.
That's cool.
So it's developing more into thementorship because I did see
you'd have like an event.
Yep.
And then, you know, maybe theygot some tools at the event, but
now you're saying there's alittle more mentorship'cause
there's, there's a little moredesire for that out there in the
public.
Yeah.
That, that's growing.
I think, I think more and morelike you see it across the
(30:19):
country.
I think Covid kind of was a bigfactor in that a lot of these
mm-hmm.
Just, they're just wireddifferently mentally.
And whether that that wasstunted growth, whether that's
just the next generation, Ithink there has to be just a
conversation like that, thatminimum, there's gotta be a
conversation about where are youat mentally, what are you doing?
How are you, how are you doingwith that?
(30:40):
That was not a thing for, Imean, it's definitely not a
thing for you.
Right.
Right.
It wasn't really a thing for megrowing up.
Started to become a thing when Igot to college, and now I think
that that is, you know, thatpendulum's really swing.
Yeah.
Ju nobody, no coach ever reallygave a shit about how we were
feeling.
Jay, our feelings.
Not much about the feelings GotI got.
I never got asked about myfeelings very much.
(31:01):
That's a player.
No, but they should.
They should.
That's great.
Big part of it.
It's good.
You know, like if you don't, Imean, you know.
Yeah.
You see, today you talk aboutwhat it takes to be successful,
the mental preparation andthings.
They talk about LeBron andmindfulness, you know, just
Yeah.
The, the things that we wouldnever talk about, but, you know,
(31:21):
the, the mental preparation thathas nothing to do with the
athletic piece and the toolsthat you can give kids and, and
those tools translate into somany different aspects of your
life.
You know, what's ironic aboutthat is, is Michael Jordan, I
think is like one of theantithesis athletes of
mindfulness and.
Just being more locked inmentally than anyone else.
(31:44):
Yeah.
And he talks in the last dance.
And there's a, you know, afamous video of him saying, the
reporter asking him like, whatdo you think about the shot?
Like, what do you think aboutbefore you take the shot?
And he is like, I'm not thinkingabout the shot.
I'm just in the moment and Ipractice this and I take the
shot.
I don't think about if it'sgoing in or if it's not going
in.
(32:04):
And if I miss the shot, how fastcan I forget about missing that
shot?
Yeah.
And right like that is, I mean,that's a, that's God.
I think some of that's God givenfrom Michael Jordan.
'cause he's, he's literally thegoat and the person that's doing
it the highest level.
But Tom Brady's another one.
Like just their initialpreparation and, and how well
they can manage.
(32:26):
They, they're just resilientmentally, right?
They can manage and that can belearned.
'cause I did hear Tom Bradysaying how, you know, I sat down
with a therapist and I wastelling him all the, the
problems, you know, it was allthis stuff outside me.
And that therapist helped to,you know, show him that, no,
it's all coming from you.
You're blaming everybody.
Mm-hmm.
And he turned his whole mindsetaround and, and he's like,
that's, that's been my approachever since.
(32:47):
So it's pretty cool.
That's great.
Well, Jules, this has just beenan amazing talk and as usual dog
made it go longer than we, weasked for, but we really
appreciate your patience.
No, it seems like you enjoyedevery minute of it, despite
Jay's bumbling and stumblingaround over his dreaded script,
Jules, I tried to keep thingsreal.
(33:07):
No, that's, that's okay.
I appreciate you guys.
I love, like I said, I lovetalking about lacrosse and you
know, anything, like I said, if,if it helps anyone out there, my
journey and.
And talking about it.
That, that's great.
So, well, Jay, I, I wanna goback to a moment earlier in the
interview that I let go where hego.
He, he was talking about a, acoach.
He's like, you know, I think hewas like an 80 to nineties guy,
(33:29):
you know, I think he played backthen.
Like, that was ancient times.
Check.
That's us.
I was like, oh, that's, that'swhen we played J Oh, geez.
Yeah.
But I will say that I thinkJules is way more mature than
us.
Oh, now.
Much less than we were when wewere 28, 29, 30 years old.
21 going on 50.
That's what I, yeah, I've alwaysThat's awesome.
(33:50):
That's great.
Jules.
You know what the game is inawesome hands, man.
It's really, really fun to seesomeone who cares as much about
all the different dimensions.
First of all, just what it is tobe a good person.
But the way from, from the wayyou think about skills
development to the way you thinkabout the growth and diversity
of the game.
To the way you're just thinkingabout helping young people
(34:14):
develop the kind of mindsetsthat are gonna help'em be the
best they can be.
I mean, you you got it going on,man.
Great.
That's great.
That's awesome.
I appreciate that.
That means a lot coming from youguys and I, I'm thankful that
you, you know, you reached outand, and wanted me to have you
on your podcast, so thank youguys so much.
Hey, awesome.
Well, thanks a million and we'llsign off here Until we meet
(34:36):
again.
Here's to hoping you find thetwine.
We're signing off here at theget the lax scoop.
Thanks again so much.
We will see you the next time.
It's time for Get the LackScoop, a podcast bringing you
all the people and stuff youshould know in the game of
lacrosse.
We take lack seriously, butourselves, not so much.
Join host Big Dog and Jaybirdand the biggest names in the
game brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training.
(00:23):
Ron Doglish, the big dog, was acollegiate football and lacrosse
player at Brown.
He was also an assistantlacrosse coach and the executive
director of the SportsFoundation.
And Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, athree time All American
midfielder at Brown.
He was the captain of the U.
S.
Junior National Team and is thefounder of JML.
(00:43):
And Joining us in the studio,Steve Grisolfi, who's collegiate
lacrosse career statisticsequals one goal against
Dartmouth brought to you by JayMcMahon lacrosse.
That's JML skills, mindset, andlacks IQ training, helping the
next generation of lacrosseplayers get to the next level
Hello everyone, and for thosewho are new to the show,
(01:03):
welcome.
We're super excited to releasethis episode of our three-part
interview series with four timePro lacrosse.
All-star and founder of the LAXLab, Jules Henning burg.
If you have not heard the priorsession, we strongly encourage
you to go back and check it out.
It was both intriguing andinsightful.
(01:23):
You'll find this interview inprogress.
We hope you enjoy.
Well Jules, the other thing I,I.
You know, it, it wasinteresting.
I see a couple of lines whereyou talked about at Rutgers,
right?
Needing to understand that evenwhen you are around a team five,
(01:44):
six days a week and have thatpractice, you gotta have that
individual growth mindset,right?
Because the reality of the, theindividual development time.
And so it seems like that servedyou well in the PLL where that's
even, I don't know, it's 10times the reality there, right?
I mean, you, you just have solittle time around your team
(02:05):
that if you're not gettingbetter on your own or you're not
just ridiculously talented, it'sjust not gonna happen.
It, it's true.
And, and there are a lot ofguys, don't get me wrong, and
it's not just a PLL, you seethis in the NBA.
I don't know if you see it inthe NFL as much just because of
how physically demanding thatthat sport is.
But definitely in the NBA, yougot guys that are just, you
(02:26):
know, they're on multimilliondollar contracts and, and this
guy, you hear stories about thisguy doesn't put any work in the
gym.
You know, he, he kind of justshows up.
Maybe he's staying out late andhe's a, he's an Allstar, he's a
maybe even a all pro player.
You know, you hear the storiesof the James Hardens and the
Paul Georges and like, right,right guys.
And like, then you have theLeBron James of the world, or
(02:47):
the Steph Currys or you know,guys that you just know are,
they're in the gym working ontheir craft.
And that's, that's, that's whothey are.
Kobe Bryant to the world.
Yeah, that's what they do.
And I always tell people there'slike an axis for that.
Like there's, there's talent andthere's hard work, and you
gotta, you gotta get real withyourself around kind of where
you fall on, on this axis.
And whatever your, youraspirations are, just be, you
(03:11):
have to have some moreawareness, some more
self-reflection.
Hey, if I'm, if I'm this guy isthis talented and I'm this
talented, well, he does not haveto work as hard as I have to
work for us to get to the sameplace.
And that's un that's unfair, butthat's just the reality.
And I think, you know, Ron, toyour point with, with kids,
(03:32):
that's exacerbated by likesocial media and just all these
things that they're dealingwith.
When I, I can, I can look at akid in eighth grade and just
say, Hey, look, this is yourtrajectory.
You are this talented right now,and you work this hard.
If you work this hard, this isthe potential you have.
(03:53):
But if you don't do that, thereis no X, y, z or you're this
talented Right?
But you don't work that hard,you better start working harder.
Because I like, as you getolder, that talent starts to
dissipate a little bit.
Starts to go down.
You're the big eight.
People start catching up.
Yeah.
Like you, well you're, you'rekind of slow though.
So you don't wanna be the, thebig eighth grader, ninth grader
(04:15):
that could run through everyoneright now.
But, but then that, that eighth,ninth grader that hasn't gone
through puberty yet, he startsto go through puberty, he puts
on that muscle and he'sdeveloping everything.
And now he's here and you'rehere.
Right.
And you didn't develop a workethic'cause you were just, I'm
the biggest, fastest, strongest.
And, and now you're not gonnaget to where you want to go,
which again, it's not foreveryone at the end of the day.
Which is all good too, right?
(04:35):
Yeah.
So, I mean, Jules, it seems likeyou might be the busiest guy in
the game of lacrosse.
I mean, there, there's verylittle in the game you're not
doing, you founded the LAX lab,you're the founding, you're a
founding member of the BlackLacrosse Alliance and Mission
Prime.
So it's really cool to see theway that you're given back to
(04:56):
the game.
But, but let's talk about yourskills training program and the
LAX lab which I know yourbrother's currently the director
of.
Tell us how that came to be andhow that's evolved and how you
and your brother think abouttraining the next generational
lacrosse players.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
I, I appreciate you asking aboutthat.
(05:16):
I think when I graduated, itwas, it was just the Duke lab,
like, Hey, we're gonna work onoffensives talent, offensive
skill sets, shooting, dodgingfootwork, that I felt like were
in college.
Really what elevated my game,like, Hey, I need to get better
at attacking my matchup.
Or I get these step down shotsfrom the point, and I really
(05:38):
need to get better at just likehammering this shot or.
I need to get better at turningthe corner, like very specific
offensive things that, again, inmy individual opportunity and to
get better, I was working on.
And so when I was travelingaround the country when I first
graduated, and figuring outwhat, what this lacrosse thing
looked like and, and what itwould mean to be a full-time
(05:58):
player in 2018.
'cause we were only getting paid$6,000 at that time.
A full-time player meant you hadto find sponsorships, you had to
do camps and clinics, you had todo things to make it happen.
Yeah.
That would make you morerelevant in the game and like
allow you to build a profile andyou know, do something outside
of just playing because playingwasn't enough.
And so it started with the Jukelab and it was kind of like
funny, like at the, at firstwhen I would say it to guys, I'd
(06:20):
be like, yeah, I started thisthing called Juke Lab and then I
would just take videos of thestuff we were doing and, and I
realized, I was like, it's kindof catching on, but like, no
one's really like focusing onfootwork or like offensive
development and like putting iton social media and like talking
about it in, in a.
Strategic way.
And so I kind of just started todo that.
(06:41):
And then I realized like, fastforward now a lot of people do
it.
And so it's cool.
Like I'm glad that it's, it'sgrown.
But what I also realized is Iwas kind of pigeonholing myself
a little bit where that was goodfor me running around the
country, but like I would go toplaces where, hey, you know, you
guys do not need footwork, youneed stick work.
(07:02):
You need to understand thisstuff.
Right?
Or mentally, yeah, before westart talking about your feet or
this shot or that.
And so I wanted to give myselfthe opportunity to expand,
right?
So that's where lax lab kind ofcame in.
I kept a lab, like that was a, arunning joke, like when we were
growing up with my brothers too.
We would just be like, yo, wegotta get in the lab.
Like, yo, you've been in thelab, like you've been working,
(07:23):
like when's the last, I went tothe field three times this week.
Like, when's the last time youhit the field?
So it was kind of always thisthing and I was like, why don't
I just use that and, and runwith it?
And it's a family business nowtoo, which is cool.
And kind of how we all came upin the game.
And I think the LAX lab wasreally, when I got to New
Jersey, I realized we were doingthe skills training, we're doing
(07:44):
juke lab stuff, but the kids inNew Jersey, they're, you know,
not everyone has the recexperience that I had with dads
that played and have the, justwere instilled in them the work
ethic and the, the history ofthe game and the determination
and kind of just, I, I would saylike the spark that I had.
And I think that that's the, thething we give to these guys the
(08:06):
most is, yeah, sure we trainsome talented players, but like
my favorite player in the worldto train is a kid that like,
doesn't know how good he can beand isn't otherwise getting that
spark instilled in him, whetherit's because he is not playing
other, I played other sports.
I played basketball like mybasketball coach.
That's the greatest athleticexperience I've had to date is
(08:29):
my middle school basketballcoach.
I'm actually gonna talk to.
10 year, no, not 10 years, Iguess.
14, 15 year reunion.
We won three championships,sixth, seventh, eighth grade,
and middle school basketball.
Wow.
Never done that in the historyof the program, even to this
day.
And we had a ton of greatathletes on that team, guys that
played D one, D two, D three ina variety of different sports,
(08:50):
including basketball.
And he was, we were 11 and 12,and it was no joke.
It was, you know, we're, it wasthe most serious thing in the
world.
And I was, I was like, allright, like the, I, I'm, I'm
locked in.
Like this is the most seriousthing for me.
I was very impressionable and Ihad positive influences that
(09:12):
made impressions on me.
And so when I see kids, I cantell that I'm like, yo, you're
just not getting that.
And the lacrosse is one aspectto it, but like, I need to spark
something in you.
And we can use lacrosse as theavenue, but it's more just
building belief and confidencein someone who is.
At a crucial point in theirlife, like 12, 13, where
(09:32):
they're, they're going throughpuberty.
They're seeing social media now,which is crazy.
They're, they're having allthese things happen.
I'm like, no, dude.
Like, yo, put in work, see theresults, and then like, now
that's a blueprint for you.
You did the work, you saw itworked.
Let's keep at this, let's keepbuilding.
And then you watch it for a yearand two years.
And we have kids that have nobusiness being good at lacrosse,
(09:52):
who are now just like, good.
And they're feeling themselves.
I'm like, yes, that's good.
Like, and that's, that's myfavorite kind of kid in the
world.
And that's really what the LAXlab is all about is, is like we
genuinely care about your kid.
We know he plays club, a lot ofthem.
Most kids play club.
The club coaches don't haveenough time.
They, they have to worry aboutthe tournaments through
recruiting all these things.
(10:12):
We're gonna just focus on you asa person and a player and train
you and then go out to your clubteam and, and go perform.
Like go be.
You go bring that, that beliefthat you built working on your
own, not just with us, but.
Now I'm telling you, it's notjust with me.
You need to do it in thebackyard.
Go bring that to your recprogram, your high school
program, your club program.
And we believe over time we'regonna be able to transform young
(10:35):
men's and women's lives throughthat.
Jay (10:37):
How about if we transition to.
J m l and let's do that.
and from what Coach Henningerjust said, I would say he's
absolutely 100% spot on.
We've had skills trainers on theprogram such as Andy Towers,
Rick Beardsley, Jamie Monroe,Nick Tinel and I, myself, have
(10:57):
been a dedicated lacrosse skillstrainer for over four years now.
And we have all come to learn.
It's a really special endeavor.
Why?
Well, just as Jules mentioned,it's because we're able to spend
a significant amount of timewith a young person on a daily
basis at a pivotal point intheir life.
During that time together, we'reable to demonstrate to them that
(11:20):
they are better than they thinkthey are, and that they can
become far better than they everdreamed they could be.
By utilizing tested, tried, andproven techniques.
It is that one-on-one or smallgroup connection that gives a
coach the opportunity to reallyhave an impact on a player's
game as well as their mindset,and that leads to better
(11:41):
performance and far moreenjoyment while playing
lacrosse.
On top of all that, thediscipline increased self-esteem
as well as their improvedmindset, ripples out to enhance
their approach to literallyeverything they're doing in life
on this program.
We're interested in growing thegame of lacrosse for the love of
the game.
But also for the benefits thisgame can bring to the
(12:03):
development of strong,independent, engaged young
people who are ready to get towork on making the world a
better place.
So if this sounds like somethingyou or your son would be
interested in, check out theinformation on the JML program
and the training programs of ourguests in the show notes below.
Now we will return to ourinterview and you will find that
(12:24):
interview in progress.
And that will help, you know,New Jersey, but we're expanding,
we're in Connecticut and youknow, we'll continue to, to move
to different markets as well.
That's great.
Good stuff.
And you know, looking at theother organizations you had
started, you're one of thefounding members of the Black
Lacrosse Alliance and you know,Ron and I, and I mean everyone
(12:46):
agrees for sure the sport canbenefit from more diversity and
it's just great to see you andyour brother and other guys
getting out there and, andbuilding that.
You know, we support itfinancially, but to actually be
putting in the time.
So tell us and the audience moreabout the Black Lacrosse
Alliance and I, I.
Looked at the webpage, it's veryimpressive.
(13:06):
What are some of the things thatyou guys, your objectives are
your goals and, and that you'reworking on?
Yeah, so the, the Black LacrosseAlliance started back in, in
2020.
And I think it was, obviouslyeverything was happening in the
world at that time in terms ofcivil rights and just kind of
the, I would say we were stuckin Covid and there was a lot of
things going on, and I think wehad to do something as players
(13:31):
to just number one, like, hey,like we have a story, like
everyone's got a story.
Mm-hmm.
But simply if you're, if you'rea black player in lacrosse, like
you probably have a story andsomething that happened to you
and, and something that is justdifferent than if you're someone
else.
Right.
Like, and I think native playersalso share that experience too.
And I'm not gonna say otherminority groups don't, but like,
(13:53):
if you're native, usually you'rea growing up experience playing
lacrosse.
Like it's just a completelydifferent.
Experience altogether.
Mm-hmm.
Growing up on a reservation,maybe you're trying to, you're
playing box and you're, you'replaying with all your, your
native teammates and you guysare gonna play different teams.
And like you talk about the beefthat, like how intense those
matches are and what happens outthere.
(14:15):
And then if you're a blackplayer, like oftentimes, you
know, there aren't a lot ofblack players that, that are
playing lacrosse.
It's, I think it's actually,it's grown tremendously.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Which is amazing.
But I think with that, like,it's really just opportunity
right?
At the end of the day.
And I think if you talk to blackplayers, the play, the game, the
shared experience, and, and forme it's different because my
(14:37):
black, being black, which isbeing black means so many
different things in the world,but like, I think there's a,
there's a cultural side to it.
I think that there, it's yourskin color.
I, I think that, you know,sometimes it's people's
politics.
Like there's so many ways thatpeople sort of look at that.
But like, I always, I alwaysviewed it as.
My dad raised me a certain way,and the way that I approached
(15:00):
things was like, Hey, we, hegrew up in a different time
during segregation, right?
Mm-hmm.
There was, he had to, he had todo things differently to get
ahead in the world, and hewanted to make sure that I knew
you want to be a black person inthe world.
Like you, you can't ever letanyone count, count you out,
right?
You have to do, you have to goabove and beyond.
(15:20):
And I think the cool thing aboutthat too is like, it's just good
lessons for you as a person.
Right.
I also realize as an adult, likethe main separator for me is
just consistency and hard work.
Like, I don't do a lot of timeanything special, like I'm just
trying to get better on my ownand, and trying to show up every
day and, and be a better versionof myself.
But like he would say, Hey, youknow, you really have to be
(15:43):
twice as good to get half thecredit I'm buying into that.
I'm showing up to practiceearly, getting my shots up.
I'm trying to be first insprints.
I'm trying to make sure that Ihave the grades so that anyone
that looks at my progress reportcan't ever be like, ah, you're
not gonna cut it.
I'm trying to stay afterpractice and do more, because I
never wanted anyone to say like,Jules isn't doing enough.
Or, or Jules, it could, thatcould never be the narrative.
(16:04):
'cause if it was my dad wasgonna have my ass because he's,
this is not gonna be in myhousehold, you're, if you're a
young black man, you have to dogo above and beyond because some
of my other black friendsgrowing up, like they, that's
not how they were being taughtand disciplined.
Like they and I, it shows, itshowed in their work ethic, it
(16:24):
showed in their school and itshowed, it shows now in like,
where am I in my life?
Where are they in their lives?
And I think a lot of that too ismy skin color.
I'm not as dark as, as some ofmy brothers and my dad.
And so I was afforded differentopportunities.
Like the conversation with me asa black player was different
than with some of my other blackteammates.
(16:45):
And so I could, I knew that, Icould tell that that wasn't.
That was a fact, first of all.
And it people, I think all thisis so, like, it's so crazy in
the world that we're in, peopletalk about these things, but I
think the, the most importantthing is you look at people's
experiences.
You just talk to someone, Hey,like, what was your experience
like this?
My experience was, was my blackteammates and my black friends
(17:08):
had a different experience forbeing black than I did because I
wasn't as dark as them.
Hmm.
So that right away is like,okay, they're having a different
experience now you just askblack lacrosse players.
Well, what was your experiencelike?
Most guys are gonna say, Hey,there's something happened to
me, or, or I was treated acertain way, or I was looked at,
or maybe I'm not sure if thecoach was really judging me
(17:29):
differently.
And that's where I think when2020 came around, it was all of
us as players were, Hey, wehappen to be on the biggest
like, stage in the game.
Mm-hmm.
Like, what can we do to shareour, our message and, and also.
To that point, A guy like KyleHarrison, he, he's been sharing
(17:49):
his experience as a black playerfor 20 years, and I think it was
mm-hmm.
That, like our generation said,Hey, like, we also have an
experience, we have a message toshare.
And I think that's where it wasborn.
And I think it started as like,Hey, we all wanna share this,
but like, what can we do to takeaction?
And so I think to date the mostimpactful thing we've done, we
started the Boost Camp, which weran for four years, and we took
(18:12):
it off last year, but we'recoming back with it this year.
Which is just an opportunity forus to, to go out there as, as
black players connect with thenext generation.
And I think really justhighlight the game, like
highlight players of differentbackgrounds and sell it to them
and, and show, like, especiallywith the Olympics coming up,
like, this is a world game.
(18:33):
You know?
Like this is national game.
Basketball's an internationalgame, soccer is an international
game.
There's so many people who lookcompletely different than you.
Who play a different style thanyou, who come from a different
culture than you who wanna sharein, in this game.
And if you, to me, that's backto opportunity.
(18:53):
If lacrosse is gonna get to thelevel we know it can get to,
it's gotta be more accessible toeveryone.
And people have gotta be giventhe opportunity to fall in love
with it, to develop their ies,to develop their iq.
And if you do that, let let thecards fall, fall as they may.
They're as gonna be players ofwhether you're white, you're
Indian, you're, you're nativeAmerican, you're Asian, you're
(19:15):
Phil.
I don't care what you are.
But I always felt like my, a lotof my teammates growing up who
were black, it was like, you,yo, you're playing, you're just
playing that sport over there.
And I'm like, what do you mean?
This is a great game.
I love it.
Also, first of all, I'm betterthan you at basketball.
Let's start with that.
So, right.
Maybe I'm doing something thatyou should be doing if you wanna
(19:36):
get better.
Right.
I like it.
I'm like, come over, come playwith me.
And it was always like, ah, Idon't, I don't really feel
comfortable and this and that.
And I, I understood it.
Like I understood why, becausethe, maybe the co, the coach
wasn't in their community or thithis, that, and the third, and
that if all my basketballteammates, we were playing
lacrosse together, our teamwould've been unbelievable.
Mm-hmm.
(19:56):
Like if they were as good as mewith the athleticism they had,
and as high IQ I have, Iwould've had teammates that were
way better than me at lacrosse.
Yeah.
So we're excited to bring thebootcamp back this year.
And you know, to me, again, likeI, I just think I've been
afforded a lot of opportunities,whether it's because of the
color of my skin, whether it'sbecause of the, the way that my
(20:16):
dad raised me, whether it's the,the coaches that I had when I
was young, I want.
Everyone to have thatopportunity.
And right now, the, the realityis not everyone has that
opportunity and Right.
You know that.
So it's like a matter of givingthem the exposure and then they
can get a little more familiarwith it and then comfortable
with it seeing pros like youand, and other guys coming out
(20:38):
and Exactly.
And running the camp.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And I, you know, I think youknow, do you do the camp in New
Jersey or where do, do you guysdo it?
We've done it in Maryland, so Ithink we're good work in
Maryland.
Again.
I think it's a good hub.
Obviously there, there's a tonof lacrosse in Maryland, right.
Baltimore and then you have, youknow, there's dog from Maryland.
He's always talking aboutMaryland, but you know, oh, I
was gonna say, thank God we go africking Maryland mention, as
(21:00):
you said, one on Long Island andNew Jersey.
Come on.
It's sort of New York NewJersey's sort of the hub.
It is the hub.
It is, it is the hub.
I, I dunno.
Thank you.
Thank you Joy.
Thank you.
Oh, you don't have to say that.
I know.
Kind of like you guys have greathigh school across Long Island
players.
Those are the.
To me the best lacrosse playersthey got.
Oh, thank you.
(21:21):
Whatcha hear it?
Whatcha talking?
Telling the truth, Ron.
I hate to say it, but you knowwhy it is, is that you guys have
all your, your parents and auntsand uncles, everyone played,
right?
Everyone goes back to the of,of, oh.
And then that's just what it is.
So Ron, the truth comes out.
Thank you Jules.
(21:42):
I'm a New Jersey guy.
Ju Jules.
Jules, we were getting along.
Jules.
Best player in the country thatwe're getting along famously
Jules and I.
Terrible sign of your judgment.
Truth, Ron.
Truth he big cursed.
Best player in the country.
Hey, there you go.
Love it.
Hey also wanted, I know Jay, youmentioned.
It's been really cool for us.
(22:03):
You know, we played for DomStaria Brown, who's been a big
part of Harlem Lacrosse and youknow, Mike Levin, who's another
brown alum who runs thatorganization.
And we've had Mike and someother folks involved with Harlem
Lacrosse on the podcast.
And it's just so cool to seethat kind of community that's
(22:24):
creating this pipeline.
And now that those kids havepeople like you and and the
alliance to look up to, youknow, your peers, like
absolutely.
There, there, you know, as yousaid, we got a long way to go,
but there were very few modelsand you know, now there are more
and more role models like youand your peers and you see more
(22:46):
and more players, whether whoare just playing on their teams
or the work that I.
The work that Mike and theHarlem Lacrosse had doing.
And it's, it's an exciting stagefor the game.
And you do hope, again, not toput it all on the Olympics, but
that kind of exposure.
Yeah.
'cause it's such a fricking, Imean, you talk about basketball,
it's got that same sense of flowand energy and excitement, you
(23:10):
know?
So anyway, it's it's really coolto see what you're doing and you
know, we can't, you got one moreorganization.
I mean, we, we just keep going.
Right?
I was really gotta get to thislast organization.
That's very cool too.
I was really, it was really coolto see the mission prime
philosophy and, and Jules, I, I,I obviously was looking at the
website, not having heard youtalk about your dad and the way
(23:33):
you were raised and the valuesand like hearing you talk about
it.
And what I read on the website,it seems like there's a pretty.
Clear connection there, right?
That you just think that there'san approach, there's a way of
going about things that forgetabout your footwork, forget
about your step down.
You know, if you arefundamentally approaching life
(23:55):
and lacrosse in these ways thatyou're, you're gonna find
success however you want todefine that.
So, so tell us.
I mean, it's one thing to saythose words, it's a whole other
thing to take that into anorganization.
So, so talk to us about MissionPrime and that kind of unique
approach to lacrosse in life.
(24:15):
I think you, you hit the nail onthe head there, Ron.
I felt like I don't try andbutter me up after that Long
Island comment, Jules.
All right.
Look, dog, transition dog.
Don't be insulted by the truth.
I think when I was at Rutgersagain, like I realized that all
right, there's talent, right?
But the, the guy Iggy do youguys know that guy Iggy?
He is kind of, he, he lost his,his arm a little bit or
(24:38):
something happened to him andhe, like, does motivational
speaker played like football?
I literally saw him on my, on myTikTok like yesterday and he was
talking about what do you dowhen there's two players who
have the exact same talent goingup against each other?
We're all at the exact sametalent.
What's gonna win the game?
(24:58):
Mm-hmm.
It's gonna come down tocharacter.
How hard, how bad do you want itbeing relentless, right?
Are you conditioned?
Can you last at the fourquarters better than anyone
else?
He was talking about thesethings and, and I think that,
that when I got to Rutgers,that's what I realized.
I was like, there's a lot ofguys that are talented.
I have guys that are moretalent, literally more talented
(25:20):
than me on this Rutgers team.
But like, I know something thatyou don't know, which is like,
I'm just gonna be moreconsistent than you.
And I, or I'm gonna work harderthan you, or I'm just gonna care
more than you.
I don't know if it's'cause you,maybe you just don't want it as
much, which is totally fine.
But we're both on the team.
You have talent, I have talent,but I'm gonna figure out a way
to maximize my talent.
(25:41):
And I just always feel likethat's something that I took a
lot of pride in, starting withmy time at Rutgers.
And as did a lot of my teammatesand I felt like a lot of kids go
to college, specificallylacrosse players, and it's, they
get there in their freshman yearand it's like, oh, I'm not
playing.
And oh, it's, it's done.
You know?
I'm like, dude, you're 10 timesthe lacrosse player that I was,
(26:03):
and you're telling me that youcan't figure out a way to get on
the field or figure out a way tomaximize who you are.
You just, you don't have theright approach.
That's it.
And you either, you're buying,we know how our college coaches
are, it's division one lacrosse.
These guys are.
These guys are getting paid alot of money and their families
are riding on this and like, soit's gonna be tough.
It, you're, you signed up for a,a big boy sport, so you're not
(26:26):
gonna get your handheld all thetime and you're not, you're
gonna have to figure out on yourown, what am I gonna do to, to
separate myself and, and be whoI want to be in the game?
Don't let anyone else defineyour journey.
And that's something that I hadto come to on my own when I was
at Rutgers, which I struggledwith a little in my freshman
year, but I came back mysophomore year.
I'm like, I'm not gonna let youknow.
What, what does Coach Breck sayon Monday versus what he says on
(26:48):
Thursday?
I don't care.
He, he could tell me on the bestthing.
And since sliced bread on Mondayand on Thursday, he's
motherfucking me being like, oh,you're not doing this, I'm doing
that.
I'm not gonna let this dictateme.
I'm not gonna let you know onebad practice dictate.
I'm not, I'm not gonna letanything dictate.
I gotta, I gotta be processfocused.
And it's a journey.
And that's a big thing twopeople miss, is it is the
(27:09):
journey and it goes by fast.
Mm-hmm.
But that's the fun in all of it.
Like the journey, like whatyou're doing on the journey.
And how you're expecting that.
And so when I graduated, I waslike, how can I make an impact
and connect with some of thebest players in the country and
share that with them?
Because I, I know a lot of thesekids are gonna go to school and,
you know, there might be betterplayers in them that are older
(27:29):
than them, and there might bemore recruits coming in behind
them.
But like, whatever you want todo as a player, like set that
for you.
Right?
And, and, and go after that anddon't let anyone else define
that for you.
And that's where Mission Prime Kkind of came about.
And it's evolved from just anevent that we would run with
seniors going into college tomentorship off the field.
(27:52):
And now working with our youngerplayers too, where, you know,
again, like a lot of the, theirexperience is they play rec,
they play club and they don'thave, you know, anyone else
talking about these things.
Like their, some of theirparents are talking about it,
but I.
My dad played college basketballat a high level and you know, he
had experiences where he knewwhat it would take.
(28:13):
So he surrounded me with peopleand put me in spots.
I was doing crazy, crazy things.
At a young age, we would go tomy cousin's house who played in
the NFL.
His name's Brian Holloway andwas called Camp Holloway.
And his sons were division onefootball players.
These guys were monsters.
And I'm this little sixthgrader.
I haven't gone through pubertyyet, and we're going up there
(28:34):
and they're benching 300 pounds,squatting it, doing that.
And he's waking us up at fouro'clock in the morning and being
like, Hey hey, we're run.
We're going, we're going for arun.
Hey, five o'clock in themorning, you're gonna jump rope.
Hey, six o'clock we're doingthis.
And I'm like, 11.
And you know, I think some ofthese kids, they don't get these
things, they don't get theseexperiences.
They don't, they don't haveanyone talking about this.
(28:54):
'cause their dad is a doctor andit's like their dad.
Maybe they're athletic and maybethe kid's athletic too, but
they're, I'm like, yo guys.
I don't even want to hear aboutthis, that, and the third, you
guys aren't doing half thethings that I was doing when I
was your age, and I'm moretalented than you.
So we gotta have a conversationaround what are your, what do
(29:14):
you want out of this?
And no one's really having thatconversation.
And then no one's giving themlike, tools to like navigate it
after.
So it's like a, it's a two partthing.
It's like, let's get seriousabout the conversation off the
field.
You know, let's not talk aboutyour shooting.
You're dodging, let's talk aboutwhat do you want outta this
game.
Whether in terms of your, yourlife and what do you want out of
(29:35):
it from, you know, on field?
What do you wanna be, do youwanna go to college one day?
Do you wanna just play varsitylacrosse?
And then what's your approachgonna be?
And that, that's kind of whatMission Prime is, is evolved
into.
And yeah, I'm excited for that.
And it's, it's not a huge partof what we, it's not a huge part
of what we do.
It's kind of the philosophy ofLaxs Lab and it's our event.
Mm-hmm.
And then it's small things, butit, it's slowly developing more
(29:57):
and more to, people want thatand I know they need it, so I'm
excited for it.
Yeah.
That's cool.
So it's developing more into thementorship because I did see
you'd have like an event.
Yep.
And then, you know, maybe theygot some tools at the event, but
now you're saying there's alittle more mentorship'cause
there's, there's a little moredesire for that out there in the
public.
Yeah.
That, that's growing.
I think, I think more and morelike you see it across the
(30:19):
country.
I think Covid kind of was a bigfactor in that a lot of these
mm-hmm.
Just, they're just wireddifferently mentally.
And whether that that wasstunted growth, whether that's
just the next generation, Ithink there has to be just a
conversation like that, thatminimum, there's gotta be a
conversation about where are youat mentally, what are you doing?
How are you, how are you doingwith that?
(30:40):
That was not a thing for, Imean, it's definitely not a
thing for you.
Right.
Right.
It wasn't really a thing for megrowing up.
Started to become a thing when Igot to college, and now I think
that that is, you know, thatpendulum's really swing.
Yeah.
Ju nobody, no coach ever reallygave a shit about how we were
feeling.
Jay, our feelings.
Not much about the feelings GotI got.
I never got asked about myfeelings very much.
(31:01):
That's a player.
No, but they should.
They should.
That's great.
Big part of it.
It's good.
You know, like if you don't, Imean, you know.
Yeah.
You see, today you talk aboutwhat it takes to be successful,
the mental preparation andthings.
They talk about LeBron andmindfulness, you know, just
Yeah.
The, the things that we wouldnever talk about, but, you know,
(31:21):
the, the mental preparation thathas nothing to do with the
athletic piece and the toolsthat you can give kids and, and
those tools translate into somany different aspects of your
life.
You know, what's ironic aboutthat is, is Michael Jordan, I
think is like one of theantithesis athletes of
mindfulness and.
Just being more locked inmentally than anyone else.
(31:44):
Yeah.
And he talks in the last dance.
And there's a, you know, afamous video of him saying, the
reporter asking him like, whatdo you think about the shot?
Like, what do you think aboutbefore you take the shot?
And he is like, I'm not thinkingabout the shot.
I'm just in the moment and Ipractice this and I take the
shot.
I don't think about if it'sgoing in or if it's not going
in.
(32:04):
And if I miss the shot, how fastcan I forget about missing that
shot?
Yeah.
And right like that is, I mean,that's a, that's God.
I think some of that's God givenfrom Michael Jordan.
'cause he's, he's literally thegoat and the person that's doing
it the highest level.
But Tom Brady's another one.
Like just their initialpreparation and, and how well
they can manage.
(32:26):
They, they're just resilientmentally, right?
They can manage and that can belearned.
'cause I did hear Tom Bradysaying how, you know, I sat down
with a therapist and I wastelling him all the, the
problems, you know, it was allthis stuff outside me.
And that therapist helped to,you know, show him that, no,
it's all coming from you.
You're blaming everybody.
Mm-hmm.
And he turned his whole mindsetaround and, and he's like,
that's, that's been my approachever since.
(32:47):
So it's pretty cool.
That's great.
Well, Jules, this has just beenan amazing talk and as usual dog
made it go longer than we, weasked for, but we really
appreciate your patience.
No, it seems like you enjoyedevery minute of it, despite
Jay's bumbling and stumblingaround over his dreaded script,
Jules, I tried to keep thingsreal.
(33:07):
No, that's, that's okay.
I appreciate you guys.
I love, like I said, I lovetalking about lacrosse and you
know, anything, like I said, if,if it helps anyone out there, my
journey and.
And talking about it.
That, that's great.
So, well, Jay, I, I wanna goback to a moment earlier in the
interview that I let go where hego.
He, he was talking about a, acoach.
He's like, you know, I think hewas like an 80 to nineties guy,
(33:29):
you know, I think he played backthen.
Like, that was ancient times.
Check.
That's us.
I was like, oh, that's, that'swhen we played J Oh, geez.
Yeah.
But I will say that I thinkJules is way more mature than
us.
Oh, now.
Much less than we were when wewere 28, 29, 30 years old.
21 going on 50.
That's what I, yeah, I've alwaysThat's awesome.
(33:50):
That's great.
Jules.
You know what the game is inawesome hands, man.
It's really, really fun to seesomeone who cares as much about
all the different dimensions.
First of all, just what it is tobe a good person.
But the way from, from the wayyou think about skills
development to the way you thinkabout the growth and diversity
of the game.
To the way you're just thinkingabout helping young people
(34:14):
develop the kind of mindsetsthat are gonna help'em be the
best they can be.
I mean, you you got it going on,man.
Great.
That's great.
That's awesome.
I appreciate that.
That means a lot coming from youguys and I, I'm thankful that
you, you know, you reached outand, and wanted me to have you
on your podcast, so thank youguys so much.
Hey, awesome.
Well, thanks a million and we'llsign off here Until we meet
(34:36):
again.
Here's to hoping you find thetwine.
We're signing off here at theget the lax scoop.
Thanks again so much.
We will see you the next time.
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