January 16, 2024 • 33 mins
Have you ever wondered what it's like to climb the ranks in the bustling world of hospitality and emerge a leader in business advocacy? Steve McLellan, the former CEO of the Saskatchewan Chamber of Commerce, joins us to share the rich tapestry of his career, from its humble beginnings inspired by a book and a cooking show, to reaching the pinnacle of his profession. His narrative is peppered with the timeless tenets of customer service and the joy of serving others—lessons that resonate whether you're a veteran in the service industry or just starting to chart your course.
Throughout our conversation, we touch on the nuances and shifts within the workplace that have shaped today's entrepreneurial landscape. Steve recounts the evolution from personal business ownership to becoming a voice for businesses at large, shedding light on the pressures and pleasures that come with the territory. His insights encapsulate the necessity of confidence and the power of a resilient spirit in facing the challenges and changes that come with any career.
The episode rounds out with a contemplative look at the transition to retirement. Steve doesn't just offer a roadmap; he provides a compass for navigating this significant life change with intention and preparation. From crafting a robust transition plan to seeking fulfillment through community involvement and mentorship programs like "Mission Possible," Steve's approach to retirement is anything but dormant. His story doesn't end with a farewell to a successful career, but rather with the exciting prospect of leveraging his expertise in new, impactful ways.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Peggie Koenig (00:00):
Welcome to So you Want to Move to the Country and
Raise Goats?
This podcast features storiesfrom people who have gone
through change.
We hope that their insightswill help you better understand
and deal with the changes inyour life.
I'm Peggy Koenig and along withmy co-host, Catherine Gryba, we
(00:22):
chat with insightful peoplewith interesting change stories.
We hope you enjoy our podcast.
It is difficult to think aboutSteve McClellan and not think
about business.
Steve started as the CEO of theSaskatchewan Chamber of
Commerce in 2007.
(00:43):
He saw a lot of change inbusiness and organizations over
that time and most recentlyexperienced his own personal
change as he retired from hisposition as CEO in January of
2022.
Steve is not one to sit idlyabout with his feet up, and he
talks to us about the importanceand responsibility of
(01:04):
continuing to give back afterretirement.
Catherine Gryba (01:08):
Well, today we are thrilled to have our guest,
Steve McClellan, join us.
And, Steve, you and I haveknown each other for a few years
and you've just recentlyretired from the Saskatchewan
Chamber of Commerce as the CEOthere after 15 years, so you're
going to have lots to talk aboutwith change.
(01:29):
But let's start first, beforewe can hit the retirement
discussion, What was your careerpath?
I know you were only 15 yearswith the Chamber, which is a
long time, but you would havehad other career experiences
(01:49):
prior to that.
Tell us a little bit about yourjourney to get you to where you
are today.
Steve McLellan (01:54):
Well, if I look back at it now it seems like a
long, long time ago and it isfour or five decades I guess.
When I finished high school Iwasn't sure what I wanted to do,
but I read the book Hotel andwhen I read that I thought
that'd be a cool job being ahotel manager and all kinds of
interesting things and peopleand at the same time I had hurt
(02:17):
my knee in a football gameaccident.
So I was at home and when I satat home after reading this book
I watched Celebrity Cook'sBruno Gerussi's show years ago,
1977, and I started to likelearn how to cook.
So I combined the idea of thehotel as a career and my love of
(02:38):
cooking and I took a SASK Polyprogram.
It was SIAST in those days, thehotel administration and
ironically I was on the waitlistto begin with and then I got
the call when I was on my way toEdmonton to look for a job and
make my career there.
I got the call two or threedays before I was to start this
(03:00):
course in Saskatoon and in thefall of 1977 I started the hotel
administration program andhaven't looked back.
I spent ten years in therestaurant business working in
hotels but never actuallyrunning a hotel.
I was a manager, I was amatriot at the stage, rest,
dinner, theater, I was at newrestaurants and, as me and my
(03:23):
partners had a restaurant andnightclub in Kenosie Lake and in
Yorkton, we had a restaurant.
And then I got married anddecided that it was time to
settle down, if you will alittle, and I joined a group in
Saskatoon called TISAS, theTourism Industry Association,
and I became an associationmanager in 1989 and I spent
(03:44):
eight years there and then Iwent to Tourism Regina for
another eight years after thatand then, in 2007 I believe, the
opportunity at the chamber cameopen and the way I went made
another change and never lookedback.
I loved every single day almostI can say with great honesty,
(04:05):
every single day I went to work.
In my entire career I lookedforward to going to work.
Peggie Koenig (04:11):
That's great.
I just have to ask you thisburning question, Steve Did your
experience in hospitality andin hotels and restaurants
actually match the drama thatyou were expecting when you read
the book Hotel?
Steve McLellan (04:28):
Much of it did.
Now, the book was by definitioncreated drama.
But in my time in the hotelworld, absolutely.
A hotel is like a little town.
It operates 24 hours a day.
It has new people comingthrough every day as guests.
Even in the restaurant businessthere's drama, there's
personalities, there'screativity, there are rules to
(04:51):
follow.
There's the whole dynamic.
So it was in the restaurantbusiness.
You're kept on your toes a lotand in the hotel world it's 24
seven.
So if you know somebody who's ahotel general manager, you pat
them on the back because I'lltell you what you never know
when your phone rings at threeo'clock in the morning what the
what the call is about.
(05:11):
But the good managers do itvery well and you see the
results and the positiveoutcomes and the great
experience of their guests.
But I didn't see all of thedrama that I read in the book.
But I see lots.
Catherine Gryba (05:24):
Steve, you were in the service industry in the
late 70s, early 80s.
How has it changed than what itis today?
I mean even experience in arestaurant.
Is there much change than whatwe're seeing today, or is it?
Steve McLellan (05:41):
The fundamentals are absolutely the same.
One of the lessons learnedearly in my career was that
you've got to love dealing withpeople.
I think hospitality, you eitherhave it or you don't.
Customer service you can train.
So a waiter who can fake itwell can do very well as a
waiter.
But those people that are trulyhospitable in the sense of they
(06:04):
want to serve people, they wantto make a person's evening as a
dinner guest or in a nightclubor in a hotel, they want to make
their experience positive.
If they've got that in theirsystem, away they go.
So those basics haven't changed.
What has changed is the peopleand where the people come from.
It's a lot more internationalpeople in the food service
(06:26):
industry nowadays.
When I was starting, the chefswere German, often or Swiss, and
they had that sort ofreputation.
Sometimes they would be likechefs you see on TV now, quite
dramatic and so on.
But that's where the big timehotel chefs came from and most
of the service staff were bornin Canada for several
(06:49):
generations Now.
The world has become much moreglobalized and in the hotel
business and the food servicebusiness not only are the people
much more global, but so arethe items on the menus, the
things you and I have eaten inthe last 10 months in
restaurants.
You compare that to when Istarted.
(07:09):
They were meat and potatoeskind of thing.
Pizza wasn't exotic when Istarted, but the kind of Thai
food and Afghani food and so onthat you can get now.
None of that was around.
So the product on the table haschanged, the people serving it
and preparing it have changed,but those basic fundamentals
there's been no change there.
Peggie Koenig (07:29):
So, Steve, when you made that decision to leave
hospitality in the serviceindustry and move into
associations, right, what wasdriving that?
Why did you make that change?
Steve McLellan (07:42):
Yeah, it's a good question.
Well, two things.
The first was that I gotmarried in the fall of 89.
And in the restaurant businessI was out of Kenosee Lake.
Then we had a great businessand my partners were superb and
our staff were great and thecustomers were very supportive.
But when you're in therestaurant nightclub business,
particularly at a resort, it's a24-7 kind of a thing.
And I got to a point where Ihad never in my life had what I
(08:04):
consider a normal life andpeople will say, well, that's a
boring life, but it's normal.
I used to fantasize, strangelyenough, about coming home from a
job at five or six o'clock,having a glass of wine, deciding
what I was going to make fordinner, make it, watch the news
and enjoy a nice dinner at home.
And people went well, that'sboring, that's what I do all the
time.
They come to me in therestaurant and I tell them this
(08:26):
fantasy of mine and they willwell, that's crazy, but I would
actually fantasize it because Iwas 25, 27 years old, I'd never
lived that.
So that was part of it.
Getting married was a big chunkof it.
The other scenario is mypartners were ready to go and
move on to other things and soit was just a good time for us.
But I still be there, had theopportunity with TySas not
(08:48):
worked out and we moved toSaskatoon?
I don't know that, butcertainly the door opened and I
walked through it and neverlooked back.
But it was just time I knewthat and a lucky opportunity
came about.
Peggie Koenig (09:02):
So when you say partners, Steve, did you
actually have an interest in thebusiness?
Were you an entrepreneur?
Steve McLellan (09:08):
Yeah, I was.
We had my brother and a coupleof other partners.
We had a restaurant in Yorktownfor two years and that was a
great experience.
That's where I met my wife.
Actually, she was working inYorktown and at the same time we
had the Moose Head Inn atKenosilake and I was a partner
in that.
My aunt was our lead partnerand another long time friend,
(09:30):
good friend, brian Rutten, was apartner and my brother as well.
So yeah, I say sometimes Iowned three doorknobs and a
couple of pork screws, but I wasindeed a partner.
She was a good lesson for me interms of putting my own money
at risk and, of course, when itwas my aunt's money, which was
the incentive, she was an ownerwhen I went to Kenosee Lake.
(09:53):
You look at life and operationand business differently when
you've got your stake in it.
You're not just a hired hand,if you will.
Peggie Koenig (10:00):
So you were really in training, Steve.
You were in training to becomean advocate for business way
back.
Steve McLellan (10:09):
You know, I think so and I think it served
me well.
And even the skills I learnedin the hotel administration
program and I'm a huge fan stillam of SaskP olytech and what
they train people and eventhough I didn't actually run a
hotel, my training was in thefood service business as well as
the administration.
All of that served me well themarketing classes and so on.
But back to the in training toadvocate for business, I tell
(10:34):
people now that unless you'vebeen in business as an owner,
you don't know that there's amuscle between the shoulder
blades that contracts when it'sTuesday and you know payroll is
Friday and you know you don'thave enough money in the bank
account, that muscle between theshoulder blades starts to knot
up.
(10:54):
And unless you've experiencedthat and found solutions through
it, you can be very callousabout these people who buy and
own and run businesses saying,well, you know, you should
contribute to this because it'sa write-off, or look at all the
money you're making.
And people would say that to uson a July long weekend at Moose
Mountain.
They would come out and say, oh, look at all the money you're
(11:15):
making.
I said, come back on Januaryout of Saturday and see how
we're doing all those realitiesand of course it was good
experience for me.
Everything about it was goodthe people I met, the things we
did, the Things we were able totry and sometimes succeed,
sometimes not, but all of thatgave me, I think, a great basis
for both the tourism advocacyand marketing through tourism,
(11:36):
rijana and Tysas and Especiallymy 15 years with the
Saskatchewan Chamber, where Iknew the pain that some of these
companies were feeling and theChallenges that they had,
whether they'd speak of them ornot.
I knew they, they.
They had good, days of bad, andmy job as an advocate for
business was to try andunderstand the depth of those
bad days and offset them bygovernment policy or programs
(12:01):
that we could bring to play.
Catherine Gryba (12:02):
You know, steve , over the course of 40 or 50
well, four to five decades, asyou put it in Working in the
workforce you must have noticedchange in the actual workplace.
You know, especially beingMoving from, you know, industry
into association, then being CEO.
(12:23):
What are some of those changesthat you noticed on?
You know how people worked inthe workplace.
Steve McLellan (12:31):
There's been a ton of them, and and there's
been.
If you were to graph it, Iwould think that a lot of the
changes are very recent.
Certainly, over time I've seena lot more young people in
business.
It used to be that you almosthad to have a bit of gray hair
before you'd get into any kindof a business the cost of
getting into so much.
Nowadays there's some amazingyoung people running businesses,
(12:52):
and I look at it from 65 yearolds Blosses that young can mean
a lot of different things, butthere's a lot of 25 year olds
that are running really amazingbusinesses and and across the
spectrum.
The other thing I've noticedclearly is technology, and
that's one of the things thatpushes Semi dinosaurs like me
out to the sidelines a littlewith a grin on her face and a
(13:14):
smile and knowing how well theseyoung people are doing.
But technology is so importantin terms of how people run
businesses now.
I remember back in the day atthe lake where we bought our
first computer, we had to go upto Prince Albert to get training
on it.
So all of those kinds of thingsare just absolutely critical
now to running a successfulbusiness.
The other thing I've noticed isthe variety of business types I
(13:37):
tell young people now are toldthem when I was at the chamber I
said when I finished highschool there was about a hundred
and fifty occupational quotesthat I had in my potential
career path and three Provincesthat I could have gone to my
world.
You know, I didn't know aboutbeyond the hundred and fifty
jobs that knock quotes, theircall or people that I knew
didn't go further than Manitoba,saskatchewan or Alberta.
(14:00):
Now a kid who is Graduated thispast June they've got a hundred
and ninety seven countries theycan choose to work in and that's
I use that number becausethat's how many there are
roughly in the world and they'vegot about twenty five hundred
occupations.
Some of them, many of them,didn't exist when I was
graduating.
So the world is so much biggerand so many more types of
(14:22):
businesses.
You know we celebrate the techworld in Saskatoon and Regina
have some amazing tech companiesthat couldn't have existed the
home delivery of food, theonline scheduling of Restaurant
staff all of those technologypieces couldn't have existed
when I started out and nowthey're there and huge
businesses.
So all kinds of changes butcertainly a lot more young
(14:44):
people.
And the last piece, referenceto the changes Is that the
people that are working then arefrom all over the globe.
You know, in the old days youmight get the odd Australian or,
as I referenced, the Swiss orGerman chef, but now we are
blessed as a province, as acountry, where we have people
that are working here andteaching us and we're teaching
(15:04):
them, sharing skills andinterests and attitudes from
around the globe, and that's ahuge benefit, and the more we
embrace that, the better we areas individuals, as companies and
as communities.
Peggie Koenig (15:16):
So lots of change , certainly so, steve, yeah, I
agree that certainly the worldis larger, but it's larger but
it's also smaller in many ways.
You know, when you look at atthe opportunities out there,
we're all so closer, we're somuch more connected now, so in
some ways it's a little smallertoo.
I'm interested in knowing,because you're very confident
(15:39):
you, you present is veryconfident and as you went
through down this career path,where there ever moments where
you were very anxious aboutwhether or not you you could
succeed as you moved intoDifferent areas, like moving
into advocacy from hospitality,was there ever a time where you
didn't weren't confident and youhad to dig deep to find it?
Steve McLellan (16:04):
Well, there were many times I had to dig deep.
I I don't think there was evera time where my confidence
Weined and I went holy mackerel,am I out of my leaguer?
There's a difference, and notthat I'm preaching or or blowing
my own horn, but I think thatthere's a difference between
confidence and arrogance.
Confidence is when you do itwith passion, with some
(16:24):
expertise and with people aroundyou who you know can deliver,
and you do.
You may not deliver exactly theoutcome that you thought going
in, but you're confident thatyou're going to get through this
project or role.
Arrogance is Comes to you know,I would define it, if you will,
from those people who just tellthe world that they can do
(16:45):
anything at all and they may ormay not deliver, but they
probably won't and they'll turnoff their colleagues or their
partners as they go.
So I've always been confident inmy own skills and my own
abilities and I've also knownfull well is that I'm never on a
solo trip around the globe.
Here I've been blessed in mycareer and personally as well,
with great people who I can.
(17:07):
As I got further along, you getbetter people in and people
that you know have worked withyou for several times, in many
cases and for years where I canjust let them roar and I just
stand at the back of the roomand smile and go.
Man, didn't they make us lookgreat as an organization and all
(17:28):
the good things they did,whether it was a policy document
or an event, you name it.
I've had good people around mewho have helped me shine.
Peggie Koenig (17:37):
So, Steve, confidence.
It would seem to me thatconfidence and resilience go
together.
What were things that helpedyou develop resilience?
Have you always been resilient,or was there something in your
experience that helped youbecome more resilient?
Steve McLellan (17:59):
It's a great question.
Yes, there has been.
One of them is you need to takethose things that didn't work
as well, where you said, okay,time to get up dust off and take
another run at it if you will.
If it was in my chamber worldand advocacy issue that didn't
get the legs or the lift that Iwanted, or if it was an event
(18:20):
that we worked at or a marketingprogram at Tourism Agena, I
learned early that nothing, veryfew things are going to be
exactly the way you think itshould.
I've been blessed where many ofour marketing campaigns did
work very well and, with goodpeople around and careful
consideration and planning, theycame off as we hoped or better.
(18:42):
But you do need to have a bit ofresilience.
You need to have a bit of thickskin because the reality of the
world is, particularly as abusiness advocate, there are
times when even people withinthe business community are going
to say I disagreewholeheartedly with what you've
done here and you have to beable to say I hear you, I
appreciate that.
Tell me why and I'll learn fromwhat you share with me.
May not change our perspective,but I do want to listen and
(19:06):
back to that hospitality concept, if you will.
I think I've had the abilityand the desire and the sincere
willingness to sit down withpeople who disagree with what
I've done, or what we've done istaken a stance on, if you will,
as a policy document and I wantto listen to it.
I want to know why they woulddisagree and I may, again, not
change our position, but I willknow more after the conversation
(19:29):
with them.
They may be 100% wrong, I maybe 95% wrong or 100%, who knows.
But you've got to be able to sayOK, you've got to move forward
with the confidence of thepeople around you.
And if you're confident that youhave done the right things in
the world of advocacy forbusiness, if you have had those
(19:50):
conversations with people whoknow the issue well, if you've
talked to the businesses who yourepresent extensively on a
particular issue and you have aconfidence that what you've
heard is translated into apolicy document, if you will,
then you go forward with someconfidence and even if it hits
the wall, you know at least yougot there doing the right things
(20:12):
In the business advocacy world,you'll learn early that once
you take it to government orother business organization or
whatever any level of government.
Once you take it to them,they've got to take that all
that good thinking that you'vedone and put it through another
filter of can they afford it,does it conflict with other
things that they have aspriorities, and so on.
(20:33):
So resilience is critical.
Otherwise, quite frankly, youwouldn't last as a business
advocate or a business personvery long, because there are
some times you stub your toe butyou learn from that and keep
moving.
Catherine Gryba (20:46):
So, steve, when did you retire?
It's a year and a half ago now.
And before you retired, did youmake plans for what you plan to
do?
Or did some people say, youknow, take a year and don't make
any plans and see what comes?
I'm interested in you know howyou transition from working that
(21:09):
process and also secondly,really curious, because you're
still so passionate abouthospitality and advocacy and is
that working its way into yourplans and retirement?
Steve McLellan (21:21):
Well, first, on the reti yes, it is.
I guess to some extent it'sstill it's.
If I think I have a hospitalitygene in my system that I'll
never leave, I hope.
But in terms of the planning toretire piece, my wife and I
took a trip.
We talked about it when wastime and originally I was saying
I wanted to stay with thechamber until COVID was done and
(21:44):
then we realized COVID is nevergoing to be done.
I call it the COVID onion.
Every time you turn aroundthere's another layer of impact
on business, on individuals.
The issue around remote work isstill alive and well and
comfortable and uncomfortablefor many different companies,
and so there's many things.
So we said, listen, how will weknow when it's time?
(22:04):
Well, we said, do we have adesire to do something else?
Yes, Can we afford it?
We said, yes, we think we can.
We had a very talentedfinancial advisor and they said,
yes, you can afford to.
If you live on carrots andbeans, you're going to be okay.
I also knew that and for mywife's job we worked with the
(22:25):
provincial government in mind.
There was transition optionsthat would segue into.
You don't want to ever justleave the company and say I'm
not coming back Monday.
I'm gone when you leave as aCEO.
So there was the transitionprocess that we had in place.
But my advice would be twofoldon that to people who are
pondering it now.
One of them is when the headstarts to go, the body should
(22:47):
follow fairly quickly.
You do not want to be thatperson who hates their job all
of a sudden.
Like I said earlier, everysingle day for my 45, 50 year
career I wanted to go to workevery morning.
I look forward to it.
You don't want to also be thatperson who's sitting around
waiting, counting the days.
You can do that when you setthe date, but if you're a year
or two or three out, my gosh,don't hate those last years.
(23:10):
The other thing that peopleadvise on and I think this is
good advice is to make sure,before you retire, that you have
things that you know you wantto do and are going to continue
to do and do more of them.
Those things.
Then they say it could be fouror five, it could be travel, and
people that are saying I'mgoing to travel all the time are
(23:31):
kidding themselves becauseyou'll get tired of that and
don't say I'm going to start.
I'll give you an example.
I said I wanted to learn how tofly fish and I got a little bit
into it before I retired.
But when I got retired andstarted to try and fly fish, I
loved to fish, I would do a lotof that, but I wanted to fly
(23:51):
fish.
It wasn't something that was aneasy fit for me, so it
shouldn't have been on one of myfour or five items is the point
.
So those things like a new pairof shoes don't buy a new pair
of shoes before you go on a longhike.
Know, work them in, Know thatthey're comfortable, Know that
that's what you truly want to do, because when you plan to
(24:11):
retire and you want to do thesethings, you'll either be
disappointed that they didn'twork out or you'll be
disappointed because it doesn'tfeel good and then you run out
of things to do.
You will find other things todo, but you've got to find a
comfortable fit and don't say onthe day I retire, I am going to
take up golf, I'm going tolearn how to play the guitar, I
am going to go fly fishing.
(24:32):
Do those things in advance.
So when you do leave, just domore of them, not just starting
from scratch and I think thatwill make your retirement much
easier.
And, on that note, when peopleretire from their regular, their
career jobs, if you will,there's still so much that has
to be can be done in thiscommunity and across the
(24:54):
provinces volunteers or as on apaid position basis that people
need to look forward to.
That sort of thing, Maybecompletely different, but what
they've done.
I've got one friend who was atourism marketer and he's
shuttling cars aroundSaskatchewan and other provinces
.
His wife was an event, a classperson, and she's working
(25:16):
part-time at a doctor's officenow.
So different things, but enoughto keep the head going, Put a
little money in your pocket,which is fine.
But there's all kinds of thingsas a volunteer or as a paid
part-time that the companies arelooking for people.
So that's useful to look forthose and maybe have them lined
up before you retire.
Don't take another part-timejob or a full-time job when you
(25:38):
leave immediately, but so thatone year window thing is useful.
But by all means there's somuch that can be done out there.
Nobody should be bored whenthey retire.
Peggie Koenig (25:48):
So it sounds like you did a lot of preparation, a
lot of thinking.
You're thinking about this.
You did a lot of preparation.
So when you actually left,Steve, was it as you expected or
was it as difficult as I canimagine?
If I walked out of what I do,Were there some challenges for
(26:09):
you initially leaving?
Steve McLellan (26:12):
There were some changes, but no challenges.
The first thing that was hardto do was to let go.
So the chambers in great shape,these great people, the person
who took over for me on aninterim basis did an exceptional
job.
The CEO that's there now isdoing a very, very good job.
(26:32):
So you've got to be able to sayquote a friend of mine it's not
my monkeys, it's not my circus.
You need to be able to stepback from both the organization
and also business things.
There would be things I wouldsee in the news that I go oh my
gosh, we've got to find outabout this.
I go, no, no, you don't need tofind out about it.
It's a chamber responsibility.
(26:52):
They will look after it andthey do and they will.
So that was the change of torelease yourself from that tie
to those issues and yourresponsibility to the members
and the business community.
The other thing from a timeperspective is you forget
sometimes how two things howmuch time you spend working when
you're working full time, it'sat least nine hours a day,
(27:16):
including an hour for lunch howmuch of your social world,
social life, is built aroundbusiness dinners, convention
attendees, and you have friendsthat are at those events and
they can still always be friends.
But don't expect that you'regoing to spend as much time with
them because you're aprofessional friend with them.
It could be very close for manyyears.
You can still keep in contact,but it's different.
(27:38):
So knowing how your lifesocially and I would say,
intellectually is going tochange is something that's
important.
And those people that keepshowing up back at the workplace
every couple of weeks forcoffee at some point you got to
just say you know what it's time, move on and being ready to
emotionally is critical and beable to fill that time.
(27:59):
There's lots of things peoplecan do, but you've got to step
up to do it.
Otherwise, frankly, you hit therocking chair and life is
terrible and you regret retiring.
Catherine Gryba (28:10):
You know.
I think, steve, what you say isso true about you've had, you
know, really such a a greatcareer and you've learned so
many skills For society it is Ithink it's our loss overall, as
people are in their 50, 60smoving and don't contribute back
(28:31):
something, whether it's paid orvolunteer.
We need that knowledge base,those skills, those bad
expertise, and it might not bein the career job, but I think
it is incumbent upon all of usto think about what can we give
back to our society in whateverway to help move things along?
And I think we have a bit of aresponsibility and it sounds
(28:54):
like that's very much of whatyou're thinking.
Steve McLellan (28:56):
Well, we've actually taken it a little
further.
Here in Regina there's four ofus that are semi-retired guys
and we came with that exactanalysis, catherine, where we
said there's too much expertisesitting dormant.
So people would say, listen, Iwas whatever an association
manager for 25 years.
I don't wanna do that anymore.
(29:17):
But okay, you don't have to.
But imagine the skills that youcould give to a small nonprofit
not as a board membernecessarily, although that's an
option, but giving them somestrategic advice and providing
them a strategic planningsession that they could never
afford to pay for and help getthem up to the point where
professionals then can go in andhelp them on an ongoing basis,
(29:38):
whether it be communications, hr, whatever the case is.
So the four of us have got thisconcept we call mission possible
, and it's to utilize thatexpertise not only for the good
of the community but, quitefrankly, for the good of that
person who has developed thatskills over those many, many
decades and say you can stilluse them in a different way,
different formats, shorter timeframes and the way we go to make
(30:01):
the community stronger and moreeffective.
And we're working on thisconcept and we've talked to very
many people about it and Ithink this fall we're gonna see
it roll again.
But there's so much expertiseout there that's sitting dormant
and, even if it's not direct,there's things we can do as
people who've been around theblock there to be able to assist
(30:22):
other groups or individuals oryoung people through mentorship
and so on.
We can't just let thatexpertise drift.
Peggie Koenig (30:30):
And I think, steve too, that we often go into
retirement and we thinkmentally in our head well, I
should go dormant, right Likeretirement equals dormant, which
I think is something thatdefinitely has to change, is
changing, and I'm really happyto hear that you're sort of at
(30:50):
the forefront of that, becausethere is so much, so many skills
and so many competencies outthere and dormancy, as you say,
you don't wanna hit the rockingchair.
I mean, that's the end of it.
Steve McLellan (31:04):
The thing that a lot of people say is, oh, I
don't wanna work because I wannatravel.
But when do you wanna travel?
Well, a month in January, okay.
What about the other 11 months?
What do you wanna do then?
And the flexibility that we canrequire as retirees to say,
listen, I can help you, but Ican't help you here.
Or here's the other reality.
I can help you, but I'm gonnadial into that meeting from Dory
(31:28):
Lake, saskatchewan or Port ofIardy, wherever you might wanna
go.
So there's great flexibilitythere.
We just have to be wise enoughto look for it.
Or it could be.
I mean, I know guys that were50-year bankers that were
delivering flowers aroundValentine's Day because it was
kinda cool to do, and gave themsomething to do Didn't
necessarily do it for the money,although that was fine and
(31:49):
people are driving cars or doingthe shuttle service.
Whatever the case is, gets themout of the house, gets them out
of the rocking chair, keepstheir mind going and their
socialization is going.
All of that is critical, andthere's so much more that can be
done.
I could, within six blocks ofmy home.
I'm sure I could go knock ondoors today and talk to retired
(32:10):
people.
Say how many days hours a weekare you bored?
And that to me, and I will keepyou from being bored.
We don't need to be busy 12, 14hours today, but we do have the
capacity to be busy 12 or 14hours a week perhaps.
Catherine Gryba (32:27):
Steve, this has been remarkable.
We really enjoyed learningabout.
I had no idea that reading thebook Hotel really started you on
a hospitality journey, andcongratulations on really a
great and successful anddistinguished career.
And really I for one I'mlooking forward to hearing what
more you're doing in retirementin a particular mission possible
(32:49):
.
So thank you very much.
Steve McLellan (32:51):
Thank you, it was a pleasure talking to you.
Peggie Koenig (32:57):
If you've learned just one thing about change
while listening to this podcast,please subscribe on Apple or
Spotify and share with friendthis episode recorded via Zoom
Audio producers Peggy Kinnickand Catherine Greiber.
Executive producer.
Kinnick Leadership Advisorytheme music La Pompée written by
(33:17):
Chris Harrington, musicpublisher in Vato Market.
For information on this podcast, please visit wwwgetyourgoachca
.
Welcome to So you Want to Move to the Country and
Raise Goats?
This podcast features storiesfrom people who have gone
through change.
We hope that their insightswill help you better understand
and deal with the changes inyour life.
I'm Peggy Koenig and along withmy co-host, Catherine Gryba, we
(00:22):
chat with insightful peoplewith interesting change stories.
We hope you enjoy our podcast.
It is difficult to think aboutSteve McClellan and not think
about business.
Steve started as the CEO of theSaskatchewan Chamber of
Commerce in 2007.
(00:43):
He saw a lot of change inbusiness and organizations over
that time and most recentlyexperienced his own personal
change as he retired from hisposition as CEO in January of
2022.
Steve is not one to sit idlyabout with his feet up, and he
talks to us about the importanceand responsibility of
(01:04):
continuing to give back afterretirement.
Catherine Gryba (01:08):
Well, today we are thrilled to have our guest,
Steve McClellan, join us.
And, Steve, you and I haveknown each other for a few years
and you've just recentlyretired from the Saskatchewan
Chamber of Commerce as the CEOthere after 15 years, so you're
going to have lots to talk aboutwith change.
(01:29):
But let's start first, beforewe can hit the retirement
discussion, What was your careerpath?
I know you were only 15 yearswith the Chamber, which is a
long time, but you would havehad other career experiences
(01:49):
prior to that.
Tell us a little bit about yourjourney to get you to where you
are today.
Steve McLellan (01:54):
Well, if I look back at it now it seems like a
long, long time ago and it isfour or five decades I guess.
When I finished high school Iwasn't sure what I wanted to do,
but I read the book Hotel andwhen I read that I thought
that'd be a cool job being ahotel manager and all kinds of
interesting things and peopleand at the same time I had hurt
(02:17):
my knee in a football gameaccident.
So I was at home and when I satat home after reading this book
I watched Celebrity Cook'sBruno Gerussi's show years ago,
1977, and I started to likelearn how to cook.
So I combined the idea of thehotel as a career and my love of
(02:38):
cooking and I took a SASK Polyprogram.
It was SIAST in those days, thehotel administration and
ironically I was on the waitlistto begin with and then I got
the call when I was on my way toEdmonton to look for a job and
make my career there.
I got the call two or threedays before I was to start this
(03:00):
course in Saskatoon and in thefall of 1977 I started the hotel
administration program andhaven't looked back.
I spent ten years in therestaurant business working in
hotels but never actuallyrunning a hotel.
I was a manager, I was amatriot at the stage, rest,
dinner, theater, I was at newrestaurants and, as me and my
(03:23):
partners had a restaurant andnightclub in Kenosie Lake and in
Yorkton, we had a restaurant.
And then I got married anddecided that it was time to
settle down, if you will alittle, and I joined a group in
Saskatoon called TISAS, theTourism Industry Association,
and I became an associationmanager in 1989 and I spent
(03:44):
eight years there and then Iwent to Tourism Regina for
another eight years after thatand then, in 2007 I believe, the
opportunity at the chamber cameopen and the way I went made
another change and never lookedback.
I loved every single day almostI can say with great honesty,
(04:05):
every single day I went to work.
In my entire career I lookedforward to going to work.
Peggie Koenig (04:11):
That's great.
I just have to ask you thisburning question, Steve Did your
experience in hospitality andin hotels and restaurants
actually match the drama thatyou were expecting when you read
the book Hotel?
Steve McLellan (04:28):
Much of it did.
Now, the book was by definitioncreated drama.
But in my time in the hotelworld, absolutely.
A hotel is like a little town.
It operates 24 hours a day.
It has new people comingthrough every day as guests.
Even in the restaurant businessthere's drama, there's
personalities, there'screativity, there are rules to
(04:51):
follow.
There's the whole dynamic.
So it was in the restaurantbusiness.
You're kept on your toes a lotand in the hotel world it's 24
seven.
So if you know somebody who's ahotel general manager, you pat
them on the back because I'lltell you what you never know
when your phone rings at threeo'clock in the morning what the
what the call is about.
(05:11):
But the good managers do itvery well and you see the
results and the positiveoutcomes and the great
experience of their guests.
But I didn't see all of thedrama that I read in the book.
But I see lots.
Catherine Gryba (05:24):
Steve, you were in the service industry in the
late 70s, early 80s.
How has it changed than what itis today?
I mean even experience in arestaurant.
Is there much change than whatwe're seeing today, or is it?
Steve McLellan (05:41):
The fundamentals are absolutely the same.
One of the lessons learnedearly in my career was that
you've got to love dealing withpeople.
I think hospitality, you eitherhave it or you don't.
Customer service you can train.
So a waiter who can fake itwell can do very well as a
waiter.
But those people that are trulyhospitable in the sense of they
(06:04):
want to serve people, they wantto make a person's evening as a
dinner guest or in a nightclubor in a hotel, they want to make
their experience positive.
If they've got that in theirsystem, away they go.
So those basics haven't changed.
What has changed is the peopleand where the people come from.
It's a lot more internationalpeople in the food service
(06:26):
industry nowadays.
When I was starting, the chefswere German, often or Swiss, and
they had that sort ofreputation.
Sometimes they would be likechefs you see on TV now, quite
dramatic and so on.
But that's where the big timehotel chefs came from and most
of the service staff were bornin Canada for several
(06:49):
generations Now.
The world has become much moreglobalized and in the hotel
business and the food servicebusiness not only are the people
much more global, but so arethe items on the menus, the
things you and I have eaten inthe last 10 months in
restaurants.
You compare that to when Istarted.
(07:09):
They were meat and potatoeskind of thing.
Pizza wasn't exotic when Istarted, but the kind of Thai
food and Afghani food and so onthat you can get now.
None of that was around.
So the product on the table haschanged, the people serving it
and preparing it have changed,but those basic fundamentals
there's been no change there.
Peggie Koenig (07:29):
So, Steve, when you made that decision to leave
hospitality in the serviceindustry and move into
associations, right, what wasdriving that?
Why did you make that change?
Steve McLellan (07:42):
Yeah, it's a good question.
Well, two things.
The first was that I gotmarried in the fall of 89.
And in the restaurant businessI was out of Kenosee Lake.
Then we had a great businessand my partners were superb and
our staff were great and thecustomers were very supportive.
But when you're in therestaurant nightclub business,
particularly at a resort, it's a24-7 kind of a thing.
And I got to a point where Ihad never in my life had what I
(08:04):
consider a normal life andpeople will say, well, that's a
boring life, but it's normal.
I used to fantasize, strangelyenough, about coming home from a
job at five or six o'clock,having a glass of wine, deciding
what I was going to make fordinner, make it, watch the news
and enjoy a nice dinner at home.
And people went well, that'sboring, that's what I do all the
time.
They come to me in therestaurant and I tell them this
(08:26):
fantasy of mine and they willwell, that's crazy, but I would
actually fantasize it because Iwas 25, 27 years old, I'd never
lived that.
So that was part of it.
Getting married was a big chunkof it.
The other scenario is mypartners were ready to go and
move on to other things and soit was just a good time for us.
But I still be there, had theopportunity with TySas not
(08:48):
worked out and we moved toSaskatoon?
I don't know that, butcertainly the door opened and I
walked through it and neverlooked back.
But it was just time I knewthat and a lucky opportunity
came about.
Peggie Koenig (09:02):
So when you say partners, Steve, did you
actually have an interest in thebusiness?
Were you an entrepreneur?
Steve McLellan (09:08):
Yeah, I was.
We had my brother and a coupleof other partners.
We had a restaurant in Yorktownfor two years and that was a
great experience.
That's where I met my wife.
Actually, she was working inYorktown and at the same time we
had the Moose Head Inn atKenosilake and I was a partner
in that.
My aunt was our lead partnerand another long time friend,
(09:30):
good friend, brian Rutten, was apartner and my brother as well.
So yeah, I say sometimes Iowned three doorknobs and a
couple of pork screws, but I wasindeed a partner.
She was a good lesson for me interms of putting my own money
at risk and, of course, when itwas my aunt's money, which was
the incentive, she was an ownerwhen I went to Kenosee Lake.
(09:53):
You look at life and operationand business differently when
you've got your stake in it.
You're not just a hired hand,if you will.
Peggie Koenig (10:00):
So you were really in training, Steve.
You were in training to becomean advocate for business way
back.
Steve McLellan (10:09):
You know, I think so and I think it served
me well.
And even the skills I learnedin the hotel administration
program and I'm a huge fan stillam of SaskP olytech and what
they train people and eventhough I didn't actually run a
hotel, my training was in thefood service business as well as
the administration.
All of that served me well themarketing classes and so on.
But back to the in training toadvocate for business, I tell
(10:34):
people now that unless you'vebeen in business as an owner,
you don't know that there's amuscle between the shoulder
blades that contracts when it'sTuesday and you know payroll is
Friday and you know you don'thave enough money in the bank
account, that muscle between theshoulder blades starts to knot
up.
(10:54):
And unless you've experiencedthat and found solutions through
it, you can be very callousabout these people who buy and
own and run businesses saying,well, you know, you should
contribute to this because it'sa write-off, or look at all the
money you're making.
And people would say that to uson a July long weekend at Moose
Mountain.
They would come out and say, oh, look at all the money you're
(11:15):
making.
I said, come back on Januaryout of Saturday and see how
we're doing all those realitiesand of course it was good
experience for me.
Everything about it was goodthe people I met, the things we
did, the Things we were able totry and sometimes succeed,
sometimes not, but all of thatgave me, I think, a great basis
for both the tourism advocacyand marketing through tourism,
(11:36):
rijana and Tysas and Especiallymy 15 years with the
Saskatchewan Chamber, where Iknew the pain that some of these
companies were feeling and theChallenges that they had,
whether they'd speak of them ornot.
I knew they, they.
They had good, days of bad, andmy job as an advocate for
business was to try andunderstand the depth of those
bad days and offset them bygovernment policy or programs
(12:01):
that we could bring to play.
Catherine Gryba (12:02):
You know, steve , over the course of 40 or 50
well, four to five decades, asyou put it in Working in the
workforce you must have noticedchange in the actual workplace.
You know, especially beingMoving from, you know, industry
into association, then being CEO.
(12:23):
What are some of those changesthat you noticed on?
You know how people worked inthe workplace.
Steve McLellan (12:31):
There's been a ton of them, and and there's
been.
If you were to graph it, Iwould think that a lot of the
changes are very recent.
Certainly, over time I've seena lot more young people in
business.
It used to be that you almosthad to have a bit of gray hair
before you'd get into any kindof a business the cost of
getting into so much.
Nowadays there's some amazingyoung people running businesses,
(12:52):
and I look at it from 65 yearolds Blosses that young can mean
a lot of different things, butthere's a lot of 25 year olds
that are running really amazingbusinesses and and across the
spectrum.
The other thing I've noticedclearly is technology, and
that's one of the things thatpushes Semi dinosaurs like me
out to the sidelines a littlewith a grin on her face and a
(13:14):
smile and knowing how well theseyoung people are doing.
But technology is so importantin terms of how people run
businesses now.
I remember back in the day atthe lake where we bought our
first computer, we had to go upto Prince Albert to get training
on it.
So all of those kinds of thingsare just absolutely critical
now to running a successfulbusiness.
The other thing I've noticed isthe variety of business types I
(13:37):
tell young people now are toldthem when I was at the chamber I
said when I finished highschool there was about a hundred
and fifty occupational quotesthat I had in my potential
career path and three Provincesthat I could have gone to my
world.
You know, I didn't know aboutbeyond the hundred and fifty
jobs that knock quotes, theircall or people that I knew
didn't go further than Manitoba,saskatchewan or Alberta.
(14:00):
Now a kid who is Graduated thispast June they've got a hundred
and ninety seven countries theycan choose to work in and that's
I use that number becausethat's how many there are
roughly in the world and they'vegot about twenty five hundred
occupations.
Some of them, many of them,didn't exist when I was
graduating.
So the world is so much biggerand so many more types of
(14:22):
businesses.
You know we celebrate the techworld in Saskatoon and Regina
have some amazing tech companiesthat couldn't have existed the
home delivery of food, theonline scheduling of Restaurant
staff all of those technologypieces couldn't have existed
when I started out and nowthey're there and huge
businesses.
So all kinds of changes butcertainly a lot more young
(14:44):
people.
And the last piece, referenceto the changes Is that the
people that are working then arefrom all over the globe.
You know, in the old days youmight get the odd Australian or,
as I referenced, the Swiss orGerman chef, but now we are
blessed as a province, as acountry, where we have people
that are working here andteaching us and we're teaching
(15:04):
them, sharing skills andinterests and attitudes from
around the globe, and that's ahuge benefit, and the more we
embrace that, the better we areas individuals, as companies and
as communities.
Peggie Koenig (15:16):
So lots of change , certainly so, steve, yeah, I
agree that certainly the worldis larger, but it's larger but
it's also smaller in many ways.
You know, when you look at atthe opportunities out there,
we're all so closer, we're somuch more connected now, so in
some ways it's a little smallertoo.
I'm interested in knowing,because you're very confident
(15:39):
you, you present is veryconfident and as you went
through down this career path,where there ever moments where
you were very anxious aboutwhether or not you you could
succeed as you moved intoDifferent areas, like moving
into advocacy from hospitality,was there ever a time where you
didn't weren't confident and youhad to dig deep to find it?
Steve McLellan (16:04):
Well, there were many times I had to dig deep.
I I don't think there was evera time where my confidence
Weined and I went holy mackerel,am I out of my leaguer?
There's a difference, and notthat I'm preaching or or blowing
my own horn, but I think thatthere's a difference between
confidence and arrogance.
Confidence is when you do itwith passion, with some
(16:24):
expertise and with people aroundyou who you know can deliver,
and you do.
You may not deliver exactly theoutcome that you thought going
in, but you're confident thatyou're going to get through this
project or role.
Arrogance is Comes to you know,I would define it, if you will,
from those people who just tellthe world that they can do
(16:45):
anything at all and they may ormay not deliver, but they
probably won't and they'll turnoff their colleagues or their
partners as they go.
So I've always been confident inmy own skills and my own
abilities and I've also knownfull well is that I'm never on a
solo trip around the globe.
Here I've been blessed in mycareer and personally as well,
with great people who I can.
(17:07):
As I got further along, you getbetter people in and people
that you know have worked withyou for several times, in many
cases and for years where I canjust let them roar and I just
stand at the back of the roomand smile and go.
Man, didn't they make us lookgreat as an organization and all
(17:28):
the good things they did,whether it was a policy document
or an event, you name it.
I've had good people around mewho have helped me shine.
Peggie Koenig (17:37):
So, Steve, confidence.
It would seem to me thatconfidence and resilience go
together.
What were things that helpedyou develop resilience?
Have you always been resilient,or was there something in your
experience that helped youbecome more resilient?
Steve McLellan (17:59):
It's a great question.
Yes, there has been.
One of them is you need to takethose things that didn't work
as well, where you said, okay,time to get up dust off and take
another run at it if you will.
If it was in my chamber worldand advocacy issue that didn't
get the legs or the lift that Iwanted, or if it was an event
(18:20):
that we worked at or a marketingprogram at Tourism Agena, I
learned early that nothing, veryfew things are going to be
exactly the way you think itshould.
I've been blessed where many ofour marketing campaigns did
work very well and, with goodpeople around and careful
consideration and planning, theycame off as we hoped or better.
(18:42):
But you do need to have a bit ofresilience.
You need to have a bit of thickskin because the reality of the
world is, particularly as abusiness advocate, there are
times when even people withinthe business community are going
to say I disagreewholeheartedly with what you've
done here and you have to beable to say I hear you, I
appreciate that.
Tell me why and I'll learn fromwhat you share with me.
May not change our perspective,but I do want to listen and
(19:06):
back to that hospitality concept, if you will.
I think I've had the abilityand the desire and the sincere
willingness to sit down withpeople who disagree with what
I've done, or what we've done istaken a stance on, if you will,
as a policy document and I wantto listen to it.
I want to know why they woulddisagree and I may, again, not
change our position, but I willknow more after the conversation
(19:29):
with them.
They may be 100% wrong, I maybe 95% wrong or 100%, who knows.
But you've got to be able to sayOK, you've got to move forward
with the confidence of thepeople around you.
And if you're confident that youhave done the right things in
the world of advocacy forbusiness, if you have had those
(19:50):
conversations with people whoknow the issue well, if you've
talked to the businesses who yourepresent extensively on a
particular issue and you have aconfidence that what you've
heard is translated into apolicy document, if you will,
then you go forward with someconfidence and even if it hits
the wall, you know at least yougot there doing the right things
(20:12):
In the business advocacy world,you'll learn early that once
you take it to government orother business organization or
whatever any level of government.
Once you take it to them,they've got to take that all
that good thinking that you'vedone and put it through another
filter of can they afford it,does it conflict with other
things that they have aspriorities, and so on.
(20:33):
So resilience is critical.
Otherwise, quite frankly, youwouldn't last as a business
advocate or a business personvery long, because there are
some times you stub your toe butyou learn from that and keep
moving.
Catherine Gryba (20:46):
So, steve, when did you retire?
It's a year and a half ago now.
And before you retired, did youmake plans for what you plan to
do?
Or did some people say, youknow, take a year and don't make
any plans and see what comes?
I'm interested in you know howyou transition from working that
(21:09):
process and also secondly,really curious, because you're
still so passionate abouthospitality and advocacy and is
that working its way into yourplans and retirement?
Steve McLellan (21:21):
Well, first, on the reti yes, it is.
I guess to some extent it'sstill it's.
If I think I have a hospitalitygene in my system that I'll
never leave, I hope.
But in terms of the planning toretire piece, my wife and I
took a trip.
We talked about it when wastime and originally I was saying
I wanted to stay with thechamber until COVID was done and
(21:44):
then we realized COVID is nevergoing to be done.
I call it the COVID onion.
Every time you turn aroundthere's another layer of impact
on business, on individuals.
The issue around remote work isstill alive and well and
comfortable and uncomfortablefor many different companies,
and so there's many things.
So we said, listen, how will weknow when it's time?
(22:04):
Well, we said, do we have adesire to do something else?
Yes, Can we afford it?
We said, yes, we think we can.
We had a very talentedfinancial advisor and they said,
yes, you can afford to.
If you live on carrots andbeans, you're going to be okay.
I also knew that and for mywife's job we worked with the
(22:25):
provincial government in mind.
There was transition optionsthat would segue into.
You don't want to ever justleave the company and say I'm
not coming back Monday.
I'm gone when you leave as aCEO.
So there was the transitionprocess that we had in place.
But my advice would be twofoldon that to people who are
pondering it now.
One of them is when the headstarts to go, the body should
(22:47):
follow fairly quickly.
You do not want to be thatperson who hates their job all
of a sudden.
Like I said earlier, everysingle day for my 45, 50 year
career I wanted to go to workevery morning.
I look forward to it.
You don't want to also be thatperson who's sitting around
waiting, counting the days.
You can do that when you setthe date, but if you're a year
or two or three out, my gosh,don't hate those last years.
(23:10):
The other thing that peopleadvise on and I think this is
good advice is to make sure,before you retire, that you have
things that you know you wantto do and are going to continue
to do and do more of them.
Those things.
Then they say it could be fouror five, it could be travel, and
people that are saying I'mgoing to travel all the time are
(23:31):
kidding themselves becauseyou'll get tired of that and
don't say I'm going to start.
I'll give you an example.
I said I wanted to learn how tofly fish and I got a little bit
into it before I retired.
But when I got retired andstarted to try and fly fish, I
loved to fish, I would do a lotof that, but I wanted to fly
(23:51):
fish.
It wasn't something that was aneasy fit for me, so it
shouldn't have been on one of myfour or five items is the point
.
So those things like a new pairof shoes don't buy a new pair
of shoes before you go on a longhike.
Know, work them in, Know thatthey're comfortable, Know that
that's what you truly want to do, because when you plan to
(24:11):
retire and you want to do thesethings, you'll either be
disappointed that they didn'twork out or you'll be
disappointed because it doesn'tfeel good and then you run out
of things to do.
You will find other things todo, but you've got to find a
comfortable fit and don't say onthe day I retire, I am going to
take up golf, I'm going tolearn how to play the guitar, I
am going to go fly fishing.
(24:32):
Do those things in advance.
So when you do leave, just domore of them, not just starting
from scratch and I think thatwill make your retirement much
easier.
And, on that note, when peopleretire from their regular, their
career jobs, if you will,there's still so much that has
to be can be done in thiscommunity and across the
(24:54):
provinces volunteers or as on apaid position basis that people
need to look forward to.
That sort of thing, Maybecompletely different, but what
they've done.
I've got one friend who was atourism marketer and he's
shuttling cars aroundSaskatchewan and other provinces
.
His wife was an event, a classperson, and she's working
(25:16):
part-time at a doctor's officenow.
So different things, but enoughto keep the head going, Put a
little money in your pocket,which is fine.
But there's all kinds of thingsas a volunteer or as a paid
part-time that the companies arelooking for people.
So that's useful to look forthose and maybe have them lined
up before you retire.
Don't take another part-timejob or a full-time job when you
(25:38):
leave immediately, but so thatone year window thing is useful.
But by all means there's somuch that can be done out there.
Nobody should be bored whenthey retire.
Peggie Koenig (25:48):
So it sounds like you did a lot of preparation, a
lot of thinking.
You're thinking about this.
You did a lot of preparation.
So when you actually left,Steve, was it as you expected or
was it as difficult as I canimagine?
If I walked out of what I do,Were there some challenges for
(26:09):
you initially leaving?
Steve McLellan (26:12):
There were some changes, but no challenges.
The first thing that was hardto do was to let go.
So the chambers in great shape,these great people, the person
who took over for me on aninterim basis did an exceptional
job.
The CEO that's there now isdoing a very, very good job.
(26:32):
So you've got to be able to sayquote a friend of mine it's not
my monkeys, it's not my circus.
You need to be able to stepback from both the organization
and also business things.
There would be things I wouldsee in the news that I go oh my
gosh, we've got to find outabout this.
I go, no, no, you don't need tofind out about it.
It's a chamber responsibility.
(26:52):
They will look after it andthey do and they will.
So that was the change of torelease yourself from that tie
to those issues and yourresponsibility to the members
and the business community.
The other thing from a timeperspective is you forget
sometimes how two things howmuch time you spend working when
you're working full time, it'sat least nine hours a day,
(27:16):
including an hour for lunch howmuch of your social world,
social life, is built aroundbusiness dinners, convention
attendees, and you have friendsthat are at those events and
they can still always be friends.
But don't expect that you'regoing to spend as much time with
them because you're aprofessional friend with them.
It could be very close for manyyears.
You can still keep in contact,but it's different.
(27:38):
So knowing how your lifesocially and I would say,
intellectually is going tochange is something that's
important.
And those people that keepshowing up back at the workplace
every couple of weeks forcoffee at some point you got to
just say you know what it's time, move on and being ready to
emotionally is critical and beable to fill that time.
(27:59):
There's lots of things peoplecan do, but you've got to step
up to do it.
Otherwise, frankly, you hit therocking chair and life is
terrible and you regret retiring.
Catherine Gryba (28:10):
You know.
I think, steve, what you say isso true about you've had, you
know, really such a a greatcareer and you've learned so
many skills For society it is Ithink it's our loss overall, as
people are in their 50, 60smoving and don't contribute back
(28:31):
something, whether it's paid orvolunteer.
We need that knowledge base,those skills, those bad
expertise, and it might not bein the career job, but I think
it is incumbent upon all of usto think about what can we give
back to our society in whateverway to help move things along?
And I think we have a bit of aresponsibility and it sounds
(28:54):
like that's very much of whatyou're thinking.
Steve McLellan (28:56):
Well, we've actually taken it a little
further.
Here in Regina there's four ofus that are semi-retired guys
and we came with that exactanalysis, catherine, where we
said there's too much expertisesitting dormant.
So people would say, listen, Iwas whatever an association
manager for 25 years.
I don't wanna do that anymore.
(29:17):
But okay, you don't have to.
But imagine the skills that youcould give to a small nonprofit
not as a board membernecessarily, although that's an
option, but giving them somestrategic advice and providing
them a strategic planningsession that they could never
afford to pay for and help getthem up to the point where
professionals then can go in andhelp them on an ongoing basis,
(29:38):
whether it be communications, hr, whatever the case is.
So the four of us have got thisconcept we call mission possible
, and it's to utilize thatexpertise not only for the good
of the community but, quitefrankly, for the good of that
person who has developed thatskills over those many, many
decades and say you can stilluse them in a different way,
different formats, shorter timeframes and the way we go to make
(30:01):
the community stronger and moreeffective.
And we're working on thisconcept and we've talked to very
many people about it and Ithink this fall we're gonna see
it roll again.
But there's so much expertiseout there that's sitting dormant
and, even if it's not direct,there's things we can do as
people who've been around theblock there to be able to assist
(30:22):
other groups or individuals oryoung people through mentorship
and so on.
We can't just let thatexpertise drift.
Peggie Koenig (30:30):
And I think, steve too, that we often go into
retirement and we thinkmentally in our head well, I
should go dormant, right Likeretirement equals dormant, which
I think is something thatdefinitely has to change, is
changing, and I'm really happyto hear that you're sort of at
(30:50):
the forefront of that, becausethere is so much, so many skills
and so many competencies outthere and dormancy, as you say,
you don't wanna hit the rockingchair.
I mean, that's the end of it.
Steve McLellan (31:04):
The thing that a lot of people say is, oh, I
don't wanna work because I wannatravel.
But when do you wanna travel?
Well, a month in January, okay.
What about the other 11 months?
What do you wanna do then?
And the flexibility that we canrequire as retirees to say,
listen, I can help you, but Ican't help you here.
Or here's the other reality.
I can help you, but I'm gonnadial into that meeting from Dory
(31:28):
Lake, saskatchewan or Port ofIardy, wherever you might wanna
go.
So there's great flexibilitythere.
We just have to be wise enoughto look for it.
Or it could be.
I mean, I know guys that were50-year bankers that were
delivering flowers aroundValentine's Day because it was
kinda cool to do, and gave themsomething to do Didn't
necessarily do it for the money,although that was fine and
(31:49):
people are driving cars or doingthe shuttle service.
Whatever the case is, gets themout of the house, gets them out
of the rocking chair, keepstheir mind going and their
socialization is going.
All of that is critical, andthere's so much more that can be
done.
I could, within six blocks ofmy home.
I'm sure I could go knock ondoors today and talk to retired
(32:10):
people.
Say how many days hours a weekare you bored?
And that to me, and I will keepyou from being bored.
We don't need to be busy 12, 14hours today, but we do have the
capacity to be busy 12 or 14hours a week perhaps.
Catherine Gryba (32:27):
Steve, this has been remarkable.
We really enjoyed learningabout.
I had no idea that reading thebook Hotel really started you on
a hospitality journey, andcongratulations on really a
great and successful anddistinguished career.
And really I for one I'mlooking forward to hearing what
more you're doing in retirementin a particular mission possible
(32:49):
.
So thank you very much.
Steve McLellan (32:51):
Thank you, it was a pleasure talking to you.
Peggie Koenig (32:57):
If you've learned just one thing about change
while listening to this podcast,please subscribe on Apple or
Spotify and share with friendthis episode recorded via Zoom
Audio producers Peggy Kinnickand Catherine Greiber.
Executive producer.
Kinnick Leadership Advisorytheme music La Pompée written by
(33:17):
Chris Harrington, musicpublisher in Vato Market.
For information on this podcast, please visit wwwgetyourgoachca
.
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