Have you ever felt the gentle tug of your heart steering you in an unexpected direction? Karla Combres knows that feeling well, and she's here to share her story of leaping from a traditional career in the Canadian Federal Public Service to the deeply fulfilling calling as a legacy guide and life cycle celebrant. Her journey is a testament to the courage it takes to listen to life's whispers and follow your "heart crumbs," even when the path ahead is uncharted.
Karla talks about the subtle yet persistent "niggle," that feeling of discontent that often lurks beneath the surface of a secure yet uninspiring job. Her encounters with individuals who challenged and expanded her perspective on life and death played a pivotal role in her career transformation. Volunteers at a hospice, participants at death cafes, and singers in the Threshold Choir all contributed to a profound realization of mortality that ultimately steered her towards a path of deep connection and meaning.
Karla's journey illuminates the possibilities when we dare to listen to the heart and embrace our true aspirations.
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Episode Transcript
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Peggie Koenig (00:00):
Welcome to.
So you Want to Move to theCountry and Raise Goats?
This podcast features storiesfrom people who have gone
through change.
We hope that their insightswill help you better understand
and deal with the changes inyour life.
I'm Peggy Koenig and along withmy co-host, catherine Greiva,
(00:22):
we chat with insightful peoplewith interesting change stories.
We hope you enjoy our podcastToday.
We welcome Carla Combris to thepodcast.
As a young girl, she aspired tobe a part-time preacher and a
part-time teacher.
She embarked on a journey ofself-discovery through travel,
learning and with a businessdegree and finally a Master of
(00:44):
Science in Sociology.
She embarked on a career pathwith the Canadian federal
government.
But Carla realized over timethat she was not aligned with
her true self and she started toexplore and pay attention to
those little sparks and what sherefers to as her heart crumbs.
Carla's story is aboutfollowing where her heart told
(01:04):
her to go.
Heart crumbs Carla's story isabout following where her heart
told her to go.
Now, as a legacy guide andcelebrant, carla helps others
shape their legacies byfollowing the whispers of their
hearts.
Join us as she shares herinspiring story of listening to
her inner voice and makinglife's moments truly count.
Catherine Gryba (01:23):
Well, I'm delighted to introduce our guest
today, carla Combrays.
And Carla joins us fromSaskatoon, and Carla has a very
interesting story.
She actually got her Bachelorof Commerce degree from
University of Saskatchewan and,carla, you went on to get your
(01:43):
Master of Science in Sociologyfrom Turkey and sounds like you
were having a very successfulcareer with the Canadian Federal
Public Service.
So how did you decide to getinto commerce and choose that as
your career?
Tell us a little bit about that.
Karla Combres (02:04):
When I was 19,.
So to back up, I originallythought I was going to become a
teacher.
So I did my first year ofuniversity in education, worked
in elementary schools doingFrench language activities with
kids and sort of thought youknow what, maybe education?
I saw a lot of burnt outteachers there may be even more
(02:27):
burnt out teachers, but doingtheir best but with minimal
resources, and so I wasn'tentirely sure that's what I
wanted to do.
And then I took a year andtraveled with Up With People.
Do you remember Up With People?
I do remember Up With People,yes, people.
Do you remember up with people?
(02:47):
I do remember up with people.
Yes, I've held internationallyfor a year with up with people
doing musical theater, livingwith host families, doing
community service and differentcommunity activities.
Everywhere we went, traveledwith a cast from I think we were
21 different countriesrepresented in our cast and as
part of that I did because thereare lots of logistics to
(03:08):
organize I did a logisticsinternship and I also did an
advanced work placement where Ifound the meals, you know, did
all the things to get ready forthis cast of 100 plus young
(03:29):
people from all over the worldand I really liked it.
I liked this kind of projectwork and I thought, you know
what?
Maybe a commerce degree wouldhave more doors open for me.
I saw more paths, morepossibilities, and so that's
what originally got me thinkingabout a practical path, and it
(03:50):
was.
Peggie Koenig (03:53):
So were you a performer as well, Carla.
Karla Combres (03:56):
Yes, yep, one of my favorite things to do is to
sing, especially to sing withothers.
I used to do a lot of theater,although I haven't for years,
and I thought lately I've beenthinking once my kids are a
little bit less busy, or keepingme busy.
Peggie Koenig (04:10):
maybe I'll get back into that a bit, but I do
still love to sing and do it asmuch as I can now what an
interesting opportunity nokidding wonderful opportunity
and allowed you to reallyutilize your natural talents for
singing and also to see thatyou had other talents that maybe
(04:31):
you didn't know about, aroundproject coordination.
Karla Combres (04:34):
So just opening that door and going down that
path I think probably opened upa lot of other opportunities for
you up a lot of otheropportunities for you, it did
definitely, looking back a lotof you know, you kind of see the
snowball effect of differentdecisions you make along the way
and how there are often littlepieces of what you've done in
the past that remain in whatevernext steps you take.
(04:55):
So that one was definitely apivotal one for me as a young
woman.
Catherine Gryba (05:01):
So you embark on a career with the Federal
Public Service for Canada and itsounds like you were doing
quite well in your career,moving along.
But there was something insideyou that you just said this
isn't for me, this isn't myforever job.
Tell us about that.
(05:21):
Was it always a nigglingfeeling, or was it just kind of
one day you thought, oh, I can'tdo this anymore?
Karla Combres (05:29):
It was a niggling feeling, I would say.
Probably from the time I wentinto commerce it didn't really
feel like it was really meAlthough again in retrospect I
see how it served me well.
But I felt sometimes like a bitof a fish out of water.
I'm a big feeler, I likephilosophy and all these
different things and it didn'talways kind of fit.
(05:52):
And then I got into the federalgovernment through another sort
of international experience.
I had working at the Canadianpavilion at Expo overseas in
Germany.
I was like a guide in thepavilion for people coming
through and a job opened up inOttawa just as I was finishing
my marketing degree doingbusiness sponsorship for
(06:13):
Canadian presence atInternational Exposition.
So my boyfriend now husband, myboyfriend at the time was living
in Ottawa already for work andso it was kind of like
everything just came togetherand it fell in my lap.
I mean, I applied and wentthrough the process, but it fell
in my lap.
And then the thing I found I hadseveral years within the
(06:34):
government.
Once you're in it's very easyto stay in and if you don't
particularly feel like a job isa good fit, you look for
something else in government,sometimes at the same level,
sometimes higher, and I wouldsay that I was constantly kind
of orienting towards somethingthat I couldn't quite put my
finger on, thinking I mighteventually get there, and I
(06:57):
think the closest I got was thelast job that I had, which was
working in immigration, refugeesand citizenship, on policies
and programming for creatingwelcoming communities and
newcomer integration and thatkind of thing.
On paper it looked like a greatfit, but it was still really
not directly connected with thepeople.
(07:17):
It's the people who are working, doing the ground level work in
the immigrant serving agencies,who are really touching.
I mean, I think those policiesand programs are important, but
I am more of the person thatneeds to be on the ground and
connecting with, so it neverreally quite felt like it was
perfectly aligned.
Peggie Koenig (07:37):
So, carla, this niggle, this niggle, because I
think a lot of people findthemselves in work situations,
in jobs where they're not quitesure what it is, but, as you
call it, it's the niggle.
So what advice would you giveto people around dealing with
that?
Because a lot of people feel,oh, I've gone to university,
(07:59):
I've invested my time, I'm alittle risk adverse I'm, I can't
give up, like can't give up agood pension.
So how do you, how did you,move through that and eventually
come to the conclusion that youhad to find something else?
Karla Combres (08:18):
I would say I'll just drop the bomb right now.
Do it.
It really was.
I moved to North Carolina withmy husband and our two young
kids.
Our second child was newbornand my husband had a fellowship
there at Duke, so we moved downthere.
It sort of extracted me fromthe government town, helped me
(08:42):
to see that there are otherthings out there, other ways of
living, other possibilities, andI really wanted to use that
time outside of Ottawa to try tofigure something else out while
also being busy home with kids,and so I started taking people
out for coffee who I foundinteresting, even if I didn't
see myself doing what they weredoing.
It's kind of like what you getto do in your podcast, actually,
(09:04):
you, you fall and get to heartheir stories, and that's what I
was doing.
I was like what I want to hearabout your journey?
I want to hear how you ended uphere.
What do you recommend?
And one of the people who I metwith her name is Mitzi.
She had become a friend therethrough the music community and
she's a grief and bereavementcounselor.
And Mitzi, I was telling herthat I really I want to do
(09:27):
something that's heart-centered,where I connect with people.
Not sure what it is like.
Is anyone ever going to pay mefor this kind of work?
And she said you might want tojust start by volunteering with
hospice.
She was very involved in DukeHospice and so I did.
I started volunteering withhospice there and then I started
attending death cafes.
(09:48):
And if you're not familiar withdeath cafe, just briefly, they
happen all over the world at anygiven night or day and it's
basically just creating a placeto normalize conversations
around dying and death overcoffee, tea, dainties, that kind
of thing.
And so I started attending themthere and then we moved back to
(10:09):
Saskatoon after being away likeI said in our pre-recording chat
that we were gone for about 13years and when I came back I
returned to work for the federalgovernment, but from here I was
teleworking and in the meantimeI was trying to carve out time
to just explore these, those Icalled niggles, like something's
(10:32):
not right.
But here I was trying to explorethe heart crumbs, as I kind of
call them, like the littlesparks that were lighting me up,
without really knowing.
It was tough because I didn'tknow where it was leading or
what the end result might be orcould look like.
But I was just trying to followthem and so I started hosting
death cafes here, and then Ibecame the person who's
(10:53):
interested in death, and sopeople kept sending me things oh
, carla, you would be interestedin this or that.
And through that I co-founded,along with a local person,
catherine Green, a local chapterof Threshold Choir to sing at
the bedsides of the seriouslyill and dying, and I did a home
funeral practicum and there werejust all these things that were
(11:14):
coming together around death,and meanwhile, you know so, my
own mortality started to becomemore clear At a certain point.
I just thought you know what?
If I get hit by a bus tomorrow,I will regret that I didn't at
least give something else a try.
I had a baby, not for thatreason but I had another baby a
(11:40):
third and never went back.
I took a leave of absence aslong as I could, just to kind of
have that safety net, and thenfinally severed the ties a
couple years ago.
Catherine Gryba (11:52):
So I'm really curious I love how you described
it your heart crumbs.
So did you feel when you wereexploring that?
Did you feel a different energyabout yourself, like was your
being different?
Did you have more energy, morepositive, and did you notice at
the time that you're actually ina kind of a better state than
(12:14):
you were, you know, in yourcareer kind of thing?
Were you conscious of that?
Karla Combres (12:24):
career kind of thing.
Were you conscious of that?
Yes, I was.
That's a great question and Idon't want to fast forward too
much but in all of there are somany times in my work where I
come home and I'm like cheeksare flushed and I'm lit up and I
I feel like embodying and itcomes easy.
You know, it's like just beingin a flow state sort of thing.
It's.
It's a very good feeling to toand I I don't think people
(12:50):
necessarily need to quit theirjobs and attention and benefits
to do this, but findingsomething that lights you up in
that way, I think, is essentialto truly living.
Peggie Koenig (13:04):
But I also I think that maybe many of us are
not prepared to be really awareof noticing those things.
I think there's a level ofawareness that one has to have
in order to see these hardcrumbs that were lighting, that
were lighting you up, and beable to follow those.
(13:25):
Um, did you, did you alwaysknow that you were going to
follow the things that werelighting you up?
Or did you have any sense thatmaybe it was too risky or you
didn't really know where it wastaking you?
Karla Combres (13:42):
I felt all those things all at once.
So it wasn't an easy decisionto make.
It was very scary.
I'm privileged in that I have ahusband who's very supportive
and had a stable job so I couldtake the risk.
I also am grateful that my kidswere the ages they were.
(14:03):
Although it was a really busytime, I felt like it kind of
gave me an excuse to take sometime away from the regular nine
to five and try somethingdifferent.
So, but it was not a cut anddry easy transition to make.
I wouldn't say, but you know,you said was I always aware of
(14:23):
those heart crumbs and I'm surewe're getting there and I'm
trying to hold myself back andjumping too far ahead.
But my first kind of foray intomore heart-centered work was
through all these differentvolunteer things death cafes,
threshold choir you know thosedifferent things, threshold
(14:44):
choir, the you know thosedifferent things.
And then I went and retrainedas a life cycle celebrant and
that really was like a.
I realized part way throughthat it was really like a return
to something that I've alwaysknown as a kid.
If you'd asked me what I wantedto be when I grew up, I said I
wanted to be a part-timepreacher, part-time teacher,
without really thinking muchabout it, it was just what came
(15:05):
out of me.
I did come from a family ofteachers.
I've always been a person who isvery much oriented toward deep
connections, awe, spirituality,and I'm not afraid to sort of go
places that some people feellike they might have a block
towards, and I think that's partof what I try to do and what I
(15:27):
think people who have workedwith me, I hope, have found is
that, like creating an openingto that there are all these
different levels of the waypeople can approach things, and
for I'm a good fit for some andnot for everyone, but I think
for some people it's like anentry point into, okay, what,
what is essential, the celebrantwork a lot of the work that I
do is funerals, memorials,weddings and baby blessings, and
(15:54):
part of that, I would say, isbecause a lot of people don't
remember that it's possible tomark transitions throughout our
lives.
It's like we've kind of thrownthe baby out with the bath water
, with religion, and then theseare the big three that we might
still do something for, andoften they're very much kind of
surface level and they don't getto the essential, and so that's
(16:16):
what I do in my work is I helppeople to get at what.
What is essential in this story, in this experience, in this
transformation whether you'readjusting to life now without
the physical presence of a lovedone who's died, whether you're
going from your life as twosingle people to a new chapter
(16:36):
together, whatever it might be,honoring who has been with you
along the way, what has shapedyou, who has shaped you and all
of those things.
Catherine Gryba (16:48):
Carla, this is fascinating.
I'm curious is there anindustry of life cycle
celebrants, or did you createthis?
Karla Combres (17:00):
It's a thing, it's a certification that I got
through the Celebrant Foundationand Institute, and so I'm
connected with LifecycleCelebrant colleagues, mostly, I
would say, in North America, butin other parts of the world as
well.
What connects us is thisapproach of really upholding the
(17:22):
values and beliefs of thepeople we work with.
So my beliefs are reallyirrelevant and unless it really
transgresses some you knowethical mind, I seek to uphold
whatever is valuable for thepeople their values, their
beliefs, their story, theirpersonalities, right, and so I
always start with the story, notwith the structure of a
(17:44):
ceremony, but I will say that soit attracts a certain kind of
person, a certain kind oflistener, heart-centered,
usually, all of these things.
But every person is sodifferent because of the nature
of it.
It's a creative vocation and sopeople bring their whole selves
to it, and you know your wholeself is different from mine.
(18:04):
Some have yogic backgrounds,some, some are affiliated with
faith traditions.
You've got like people whomight be clergy or be a lay
person in their faith traditionbut want to offer these types of
services to their community.
You have meditation instructorsor lots of.
So it is really possible tofind the person that's the right
fit for you.
(18:27):
So has the niggle gone?
Just continue on like this andthis work that I find quite
(18:52):
soulless.
Or you know what?
Am I going to have to give upall of these things?
What will people like?
I said what people want to workwith me.
Is this something that peoplewant?
Is it just me?
And when I discovered that, oh,this is a way I can bring all
of these seemingly disparatethings and parts of myself
together into one offering, itwas a beautiful thing that
touched me deep inside and I'vealways known that that's not it,
(19:13):
that there is more and that Iwill continue to learn.
I mean, I didn't stop at thatcertification.
I'm constantly doing otherclasses and reading and all
kinds of things, and then theexperience that I get, every
person that I work with is awhole new world of story and
experience and lessons andteachings, and so I'm as much a
(19:35):
student on this path as I amhelping or guide people on
theirs.
So, um, and I would say theniggle you ask about the niggle,
so had another niggle aboutthis time last year.
It was one of the classes I wasdoing was for professional
officiants and actually I tookit with.
(19:56):
I'll give a shout out to her.
Her name is Maureen Cotton,she's in Boston area, she has a
website called the SoulfulWedding and we have similar
approaches in the way we workwith people.
And one of the questions sheasked me as part of the course
was you know, she suggested thatI might want to look at having
(20:18):
different websites, differentsocial media presence for my
weddings, for my funerals, tonot confuse people.
She thought it might confusenewly engaged couples to land on
my site and see Celebration ofLife or, you know, bring family
land and see newly engagedcouples, and so that made me
really think about, because itdidn't really sit right for me.
(20:38):
So there was that niggle.
It's like what is essential forme in this work and why don't I
want to separate them?
Because I really do see them asintegrated.
And that's where this idea oflegacy guide has come from,
because for me, ever since thebeginning of this transformation
, this big change in my worklife, it's been death sort of as
(21:02):
the thing that's given me theguts to try something new,
something new.
And you know, when I work withpeople, in those milestone
moments, those are like youasked about the flow state
(21:24):
before.
It's like when you're in thatceremony, space, if it's done
well, it's like you're in adifferent time and space.
There's a shift that'shappening at a soul level and it
can be felt not just by thepeople who are being honored but
by their community if it's donewell and with intention and
attention.
And I'm realizing that you knowwell.
There's the fact that no oneceremony or event is happy,
(21:47):
joyful, a hundred percent.
No one is full of grief andthat's it.
There's always.
There's like this messiness tolife, and I think we can access
those things all along the way.
And each you know, in a funeral, I'm getting to know the story
(22:08):
of the person, and it's not onevocation that they did or one
specific story, it's the storyof their life, and the story
comes out because of therelationships they had and the
decisions they made.
And so my work as a legacyguide is to help people tease
out what is essential, not atthis milestone moment, but in
your life, and how do you wantto live into that?
(22:29):
Look at, how are you inalignment with that?
How do you want to live intothat?
Look at, how are you inalignment with that, how do you
want to live into it, so that,when you get to the end, which
we all will.
You're not looking back withregrets and would, or should.
Peggie Koenig (22:40):
You've mentioned soul a couple of times and I
guess in my experience soul is,it's always associated well, it
has been in my experience withspirituality and with religion
and I'm not getting a sense fromyou that that's what the soul
means in the context of a legacyguide or a celebrant.
(23:02):
How does the soul fit intothese constructs?
You know my constructs of whatreligion is and spirituality.
Karla Combres (23:09):
I would say, first of all, that language is
very loaded and can carry a lotof baggage and, depending on
your history and how you grew upand your you know, traditions
that have moved you or disgustedyou or enlivened, you will
shape how you react to certainwords.
So even when I'm working withclients, I try to offer up all
(23:32):
kinds of different ways ofimagining what is this thing
that is transcendent or biggerthan us, and how do you
experience it?
And for some people it's anameable other bigger being.
For some people it's tuckingtheir kids in at night and
feeling their heartbeat andfeeling this overwhelming sense
(23:55):
of love.
For some people it's being outin the middle of a lake on a
sunny day.
I think there are so manydifferent ways to experience it
and any way that we try todefine it, we'll never measure
up to what it is.
So it's hard for me to describereally that.
So it's hard for me to describereally that and I think it's
(24:18):
feeling and an experience thatif you know, you know if you've
had it.
No, and I guess this is part ofmy work again and why I've been
grateful to not be in a hurry,to have tons of clients and get
out there and be busy full-timewith working with so many people
, because I've been able to takea real deep dive and help
people access a place thatsometimes they're ready to go
there, have a rich spirituallife, and other times they might
(24:40):
not have the language or theexperience around it, and so
it's like helping people accessthis side.
I remember this is slightlydifferent, but I remember
singing at the bedside ofsomeone who was dying in the
convalescent home a number ofyears ago with Threshold Choir.
We were invited into their roomby the family.
The person was laying in beddying.
There were three, I think,family members there.
(25:02):
It was quite tight in the roomA person on the chair on one
side of the bed, a person on thechair on the other side and
then a person kind of wedged upagainst the dresser and we had
to kind of wedge ourselves inthere too.
So it was quite tight,pre-pandemic and I remember sort
of not being able to kind oftake everyone in the room in
just because of the angle and itwas a bit awkward.
(25:23):
I couldn't quite get a sense ofhow this was landing on that
person at the end of the bed.
We were there to sing for dyingperson, but it can be a real
gift for the family as well.
And he was I'm going to go witha very like the stereotypical
judging mind of you know he kindof looked like maybe a farmer
or he didn't look like the kindof guy who would necessarily ask
(25:45):
you to a threshold choir tocome sing lullabies for their
dying person, as judgmental asthat sounds.
And afterwards we went out tothe lobby as we were leaving and
he came out and he said I'venever experienced anything like
that in my life.
I'm not a religious person, I'mnot a musician or whatever, but
you took me to a place that Ididn't know existed and it's
(26:08):
like finding that openingwhatever it is for a person.
We all have this inner worldgoing on and we're able to
access it with the rightapproaches that are gentle and
that are open to the fact thatthere are a multitude of ways to
experience transcendence ordeep connection, meaning making
(26:29):
all of those things.
Catherine Gryba (26:30):
What a gift, carla, that you have and what an
amazing journey you've been on,and you know, I think it really
speaks to the importance oflistening to those signs that we
have for ourselves.
But you're right, it can be asmuch a challenge as figuring out
what do I do with this?
What is it?
I know what it's not, but Idon't know what it is, and so
(26:55):
you know, to hear yourexperience going through to
finding you know what that lookslike, I think is quite
remarkable.
So thank you, thank you verymuch.
Karla Combres (27:06):
Thank you both very much.
Peggie Koenig (27:11):
If you've learned just one thing about change
while listening to this podcast,please subscribe on Apple or
Spotify and share with a friendthis episode recorded via Zoom
audio.
Producers Peggy Koenig andCatherine Greiba.
Executive Producer.
Koenig, leadership Advisory.
Theme music La Pompe, writtenby Chris Harrington.
(27:33):
Music Publisher Envato Market.
Welcome to.
So you Want to Move to theCountry and Raise Goats?
This podcast features storiesfrom people who have gone
through change.
We hope that their insightswill help you better understand
and deal with the changes inyour life.
I'm Peggy Koenig and along withmy co-host, catherine Greiva,
(00:22):
we chat with insightful peoplewith interesting change stories.
We hope you enjoy our podcastToday.
We welcome Carla Combris to thepodcast.
As a young girl, she aspired tobe a part-time preacher and a
part-time teacher.
She embarked on a journey ofself-discovery through travel,
learning and with a businessdegree and finally a Master of
(00:44):
Science in Sociology.
She embarked on a career pathwith the Canadian federal
government.
But Carla realized over timethat she was not aligned with
her true self and she started toexplore and pay attention to
those little sparks and what sherefers to as her heart crumbs.
Carla's story is aboutfollowing where her heart told
(01:04):
her to go.
Heart crumbs Carla's story isabout following where her heart
told her to go.
Now, as a legacy guide andcelebrant, carla helps others
shape their legacies byfollowing the whispers of their
hearts.
Join us as she shares herinspiring story of listening to
her inner voice and makinglife's moments truly count.
Catherine Gryba (01:23):
Well, I'm delighted to introduce our guest
today, carla Combrays.
And Carla joins us fromSaskatoon, and Carla has a very
interesting story.
She actually got her Bachelorof Commerce degree from
University of Saskatchewan and,carla, you went on to get your
(01:43):
Master of Science in Sociologyfrom Turkey and sounds like you
were having a very successfulcareer with the Canadian Federal
Public Service.
So how did you decide to getinto commerce and choose that as
your career?
Tell us a little bit about that.
Karla Combres (02:04):
When I was 19,.
So to back up, I originallythought I was going to become a
teacher.
So I did my first year ofuniversity in education, worked
in elementary schools doingFrench language activities with
kids and sort of thought youknow what, maybe education?
I saw a lot of burnt outteachers there may be even more
(02:27):
burnt out teachers, but doingtheir best but with minimal
resources, and so I wasn'tentirely sure that's what I
wanted to do.
And then I took a year andtraveled with Up With People.
Do you remember Up With People?
I do remember Up With People,yes, people.
Do you remember up with people?
(02:47):
I do remember up with people.
Yes, I've held internationallyfor a year with up with people
doing musical theater, livingwith host families, doing
community service and differentcommunity activities.
Everywhere we went, traveledwith a cast from I think we were
21 different countriesrepresented in our cast and as
part of that I did because thereare lots of logistics to
(03:08):
organize I did a logisticsinternship and I also did an
advanced work placement where Ifound the meals, you know, did
all the things to get ready forthis cast of 100 plus young
(03:29):
people from all over the worldand I really liked it.
I liked this kind of projectwork and I thought, you know
what?
Maybe a commerce degree wouldhave more doors open for me.
I saw more paths, morepossibilities, and so that's
what originally got me thinkingabout a practical path, and it
(03:50):
was.
Peggie Koenig (03:53):
So were you a performer as well, Carla.
Karla Combres (03:56):
Yes, yep, one of my favorite things to do is to
sing, especially to sing withothers.
I used to do a lot of theater,although I haven't for years,
and I thought lately I've beenthinking once my kids are a
little bit less busy, or keepingme busy.
Peggie Koenig (04:10):
maybe I'll get back into that a bit, but I do
still love to sing and do it asmuch as I can now what an
interesting opportunity nokidding wonderful opportunity
and allowed you to reallyutilize your natural talents for
singing and also to see thatyou had other talents that maybe
(04:31):
you didn't know about, aroundproject coordination.
Karla Combres (04:34):
So just opening that door and going down that
path I think probably opened upa lot of other opportunities for
you up a lot of otheropportunities for you, it did
definitely, looking back a lotof you know, you kind of see the
snowball effect of differentdecisions you make along the way
and how there are often littlepieces of what you've done in
the past that remain in whatevernext steps you take.
(04:55):
So that one was definitely apivotal one for me as a young
woman.
Catherine Gryba (05:01):
So you embark on a career with the Federal
Public Service for Canada and itsounds like you were doing
quite well in your career,moving along.
But there was something insideyou that you just said this
isn't for me, this isn't myforever job.
Tell us about that.
(05:21):
Was it always a nigglingfeeling, or was it just kind of
one day you thought, oh, I can'tdo this anymore?
Karla Combres (05:29):
It was a niggling feeling, I would say.
Probably from the time I wentinto commerce it didn't really
feel like it was really meAlthough again in retrospect I
see how it served me well.
But I felt sometimes like a bitof a fish out of water.
I'm a big feeler, I likephilosophy and all these
different things and it didn'talways kind of fit.
(05:52):
And then I got into the federalgovernment through another sort
of international experience.
I had working at the Canadianpavilion at Expo overseas in
Germany.
I was like a guide in thepavilion for people coming
through and a job opened up inOttawa just as I was finishing
my marketing degree doingbusiness sponsorship for
(06:13):
Canadian presence atInternational Exposition.
So my boyfriend now husband, myboyfriend at the time was living
in Ottawa already for work andso it was kind of like
everything just came togetherand it fell in my lap.
I mean, I applied and wentthrough the process, but it fell
in my lap.
And then the thing I found I hadseveral years within the
(06:34):
government.
Once you're in it's very easyto stay in and if you don't
particularly feel like a job isa good fit, you look for
something else in government,sometimes at the same level,
sometimes higher, and I wouldsay that I was constantly kind
of orienting towards somethingthat I couldn't quite put my
finger on, thinking I mighteventually get there, and I
(06:57):
think the closest I got was thelast job that I had, which was
working in immigration, refugeesand citizenship, on policies
and programming for creatingwelcoming communities and
newcomer integration and thatkind of thing.
On paper it looked like a greatfit, but it was still really
not directly connected with thepeople.
(07:17):
It's the people who are working, doing the ground level work in
the immigrant serving agencies,who are really touching.
I mean, I think those policiesand programs are important, but
I am more of the person thatneeds to be on the ground and
connecting with, so it neverreally quite felt like it was
perfectly aligned.
Peggie Koenig (07:37):
So, carla, this niggle, this niggle, because I
think a lot of people findthemselves in work situations,
in jobs where they're not quitesure what it is, but, as you
call it, it's the niggle.
So what advice would you giveto people around dealing with
that?
Because a lot of people feel,oh, I've gone to university,
(07:59):
I've invested my time, I'm alittle risk adverse I'm, I can't
give up, like can't give up agood pension.
So how do you, how did you,move through that and eventually
come to the conclusion that youhad to find something else?
Karla Combres (08:18):
I would say I'll just drop the bomb right now.
Do it.
It really was.
I moved to North Carolina withmy husband and our two young
kids.
Our second child was newbornand my husband had a fellowship
there at Duke, so we moved downthere.
It sort of extracted me fromthe government town, helped me
(08:42):
to see that there are otherthings out there, other ways of
living, other possibilities, andI really wanted to use that
time outside of Ottawa to try tofigure something else out while
also being busy home with kids,and so I started taking people
out for coffee who I foundinteresting, even if I didn't
see myself doing what they weredoing.
It's kind of like what you getto do in your podcast, actually,
(09:04):
you, you fall and get to heartheir stories, and that's what I
was doing.
I was like what I want to hearabout your journey?
I want to hear how you ended uphere.
What do you recommend?
And one of the people who I metwith her name is Mitzi.
She had become a friend therethrough the music community and
she's a grief and bereavementcounselor.
And Mitzi, I was telling herthat I really I want to do
(09:27):
something that's heart-centered,where I connect with people.
Not sure what it is like.
Is anyone ever going to pay mefor this kind of work?
And she said you might want tojust start by volunteering with
hospice.
She was very involved in DukeHospice and so I did.
I started volunteering withhospice there and then I started
attending death cafes.
(09:48):
And if you're not familiar withdeath cafe, just briefly, they
happen all over the world at anygiven night or day and it's
basically just creating a placeto normalize conversations
around dying and death overcoffee, tea, dainties, that kind
of thing.
And so I started attending themthere and then we moved back to
(10:09):
Saskatoon after being away likeI said in our pre-recording chat
that we were gone for about 13years and when I came back I
returned to work for the federalgovernment, but from here I was
teleworking and in the meantimeI was trying to carve out time
to just explore these, those Icalled niggles, like something's
(10:32):
not right.
But here I was trying to explorethe heart crumbs, as I kind of
call them, like the littlesparks that were lighting me up,
without really knowing.
It was tough because I didn'tknow where it was leading or
what the end result might be orcould look like.
But I was just trying to followthem and so I started hosting
death cafes here, and then Ibecame the person who's
(10:53):
interested in death, and sopeople kept sending me things oh
, carla, you would be interestedin this or that.
And through that I co-founded,along with a local person,
catherine Green, a local chapterof Threshold Choir to sing at
the bedsides of the seriouslyill and dying, and I did a home
funeral practicum and there werejust all these things that were
(11:14):
coming together around death,and meanwhile, you know so, my
own mortality started to becomemore clear At a certain point.
I just thought you know what?
If I get hit by a bus tomorrow,I will regret that I didn't at
least give something else a try.
I had a baby, not for thatreason but I had another baby a
(11:40):
third and never went back.
I took a leave of absence aslong as I could, just to kind of
have that safety net, and thenfinally severed the ties a
couple years ago.
Catherine Gryba (11:52):
So I'm really curious I love how you described
it your heart crumbs.
So did you feel when you wereexploring that?
Did you feel a different energyabout yourself, like was your
being different?
Did you have more energy, morepositive, and did you notice at
the time that you're actually ina kind of a better state than
(12:14):
you were, you know, in yourcareer kind of thing?
Were you conscious of that?
Karla Combres (12:24):
career kind of thing.
Were you conscious of that?
Yes, I was.
That's a great question and Idon't want to fast forward too
much but in all of there are somany times in my work where I
come home and I'm like cheeksare flushed and I'm lit up and I
I feel like embodying and itcomes easy.
You know, it's like just beingin a flow state sort of thing.
It's.
It's a very good feeling to toand I I don't think people
(12:50):
necessarily need to quit theirjobs and attention and benefits
to do this, but findingsomething that lights you up in
that way, I think, is essentialto truly living.
Peggie Koenig (13:04):
But I also I think that maybe many of us are
not prepared to be really awareof noticing those things.
I think there's a level ofawareness that one has to have
in order to see these hardcrumbs that were lighting, that
were lighting you up, and beable to follow those.
(13:25):
Um, did you, did you alwaysknow that you were going to
follow the things that werelighting you up?
Or did you have any sense thatmaybe it was too risky or you
didn't really know where it wastaking you?
Karla Combres (13:42):
I felt all those things all at once.
So it wasn't an easy decisionto make.
It was very scary.
I'm privileged in that I have ahusband who's very supportive
and had a stable job so I couldtake the risk.
I also am grateful that my kidswere the ages they were.
(14:03):
Although it was a really busytime, I felt like it kind of
gave me an excuse to take sometime away from the regular nine
to five and try somethingdifferent.
So, but it was not a cut anddry easy transition to make.
I wouldn't say, but you know,you said was I always aware of
(14:23):
those heart crumbs and I'm surewe're getting there and I'm
trying to hold myself back andjumping too far ahead.
But my first kind of foray intomore heart-centered work was
through all these differentvolunteer things death cafes,
threshold choir you know thosedifferent things, threshold
(14:44):
choir, the you know thosedifferent things.
And then I went and retrainedas a life cycle celebrant and
that really was like a.
I realized part way throughthat it was really like a return
to something that I've alwaysknown as a kid.
If you'd asked me what I wantedto be when I grew up, I said I
wanted to be a part-timepreacher, part-time teacher,
without really thinking muchabout it, it was just what came
(15:05):
out of me.
I did come from a family ofteachers.
I've always been a person who isvery much oriented toward deep
connections, awe, spirituality,and I'm not afraid to sort of go
places that some people feellike they might have a block
towards, and I think that's partof what I try to do and what I
(15:27):
think people who have workedwith me, I hope, have found is
that, like creating an openingto that there are all these
different levels of the waypeople can approach things, and
for I'm a good fit for some andnot for everyone, but I think
for some people it's like anentry point into, okay, what,
what is essential, the celebrantwork a lot of the work that I
do is funerals, memorials,weddings and baby blessings, and
(15:54):
part of that, I would say, isbecause a lot of people don't
remember that it's possible tomark transitions throughout our
lives.
It's like we've kind of thrownthe baby out with the bath water
, with religion, and then theseare the big three that we might
still do something for, andoften they're very much kind of
surface level and they don't getto the essential, and so that's
(16:16):
what I do in my work is I helppeople to get at what.
What is essential in this story, in this experience, in this
transformation whether you'readjusting to life now without
the physical presence of a lovedone who's died, whether you're
going from your life as twosingle people to a new chapter
(16:36):
together, whatever it might be,honoring who has been with you
along the way, what has shapedyou, who has shaped you and all
of those things.
Catherine Gryba (16:48):
Carla, this is fascinating.
I'm curious is there anindustry of life cycle
celebrants, or did you createthis?
Karla Combres (17:00):
It's a thing, it's a certification that I got
through the Celebrant Foundationand Institute, and so I'm
connected with LifecycleCelebrant colleagues, mostly, I
would say, in North America, butin other parts of the world as
well.
What connects us is thisapproach of really upholding the
(17:22):
values and beliefs of thepeople we work with.
So my beliefs are reallyirrelevant and unless it really
transgresses some you knowethical mind, I seek to uphold
whatever is valuable for thepeople their values, their
beliefs, their story, theirpersonalities, right, and so I
always start with the story, notwith the structure of a
(17:44):
ceremony, but I will say that soit attracts a certain kind of
person, a certain kind oflistener, heart-centered,
usually, all of these things.
But every person is sodifferent because of the nature
of it.
It's a creative vocation and sopeople bring their whole selves
to it, and you know your wholeself is different from mine.
(18:04):
Some have yogic backgrounds,some, some are affiliated with
faith traditions.
You've got like people whomight be clergy or be a lay
person in their faith traditionbut want to offer these types of
services to their community.
You have meditation instructorsor lots of.
So it is really possible tofind the person that's the right
fit for you.
(18:27):
So has the niggle gone?
Just continue on like this andthis work that I find quite
(18:52):
soulless.
Or you know what?
Am I going to have to give upall of these things?
What will people like?
I said what people want to workwith me.
Is this something that peoplewant?
Is it just me?
And when I discovered that, oh,this is a way I can bring all
of these seemingly disparatethings and parts of myself
together into one offering, itwas a beautiful thing that
touched me deep inside and I'vealways known that that's not it,
(19:13):
that there is more and that Iwill continue to learn.
I mean, I didn't stop at thatcertification.
I'm constantly doing otherclasses and reading and all
kinds of things, and then theexperience that I get, every
person that I work with is awhole new world of story and
experience and lessons andteachings, and so I'm as much a
(19:35):
student on this path as I amhelping or guide people on
theirs.
So, um, and I would say theniggle you ask about the niggle,
so had another niggle aboutthis time last year.
It was one of the classes I wasdoing was for professional
officiants and actually I tookit with.
(19:56):
I'll give a shout out to her.
Her name is Maureen Cotton,she's in Boston area, she has a
website called the SoulfulWedding and we have similar
approaches in the way we workwith people.
And one of the questions sheasked me as part of the course
was you know, she suggested thatI might want to look at having
(20:18):
different websites, differentsocial media presence for my
weddings, for my funerals, tonot confuse people.
She thought it might confusenewly engaged couples to land on
my site and see Celebration ofLife or, you know, bring family
land and see newly engagedcouples, and so that made me
really think about, because itdidn't really sit right for me.
(20:38):
So there was that niggle.
It's like what is essential forme in this work and why don't I
want to separate them?
Because I really do see them asintegrated.
And that's where this idea oflegacy guide has come from,
because for me, ever since thebeginning of this transformation
, this big change in my worklife, it's been death sort of as
(21:02):
the thing that's given me theguts to try something new,
something new.
And you know, when I work withpeople, in those milestone
moments, those are like youasked about the flow state
(21:24):
before.
It's like when you're in thatceremony, space, if it's done
well, it's like you're in adifferent time and space.
There's a shift that'shappening at a soul level and it
can be felt not just by thepeople who are being honored but
by their community if it's donewell and with intention and
attention.
And I'm realizing that you knowwell.
There's the fact that no oneceremony or event is happy,
(21:47):
joyful, a hundred percent.
No one is full of grief andthat's it.
There's always.
There's like this messiness tolife, and I think we can access
those things all along the way.
And each you know, in a funeral, I'm getting to know the story
(22:08):
of the person, and it's not onevocation that they did or one
specific story, it's the storyof their life, and the story
comes out because of therelationships they had and the
decisions they made.
And so my work as a legacyguide is to help people tease
out what is essential, not atthis milestone moment, but in
your life, and how do you wantto live into that?
(22:29):
Look at, how are you inalignment with that?
How do you want to live intothat?
Look at, how are you inalignment with that, how do you
want to live into it, so that,when you get to the end, which
we all will.
You're not looking back withregrets and would, or should.
Peggie Koenig (22:40):
You've mentioned soul a couple of times and I
guess in my experience soul is,it's always associated well, it
has been in my experience withspirituality and with religion
and I'm not getting a sense fromyou that that's what the soul
means in the context of a legacyguide or a celebrant.
(23:02):
How does the soul fit intothese constructs?
You know my constructs of whatreligion is and spirituality.
Karla Combres (23:09):
I would say, first of all, that language is
very loaded and can carry a lotof baggage and, depending on
your history and how you grew upand your you know, traditions
that have moved you or disgustedyou or enlivened, you will
shape how you react to certainwords.
So even when I'm working withclients, I try to offer up all
(23:32):
kinds of different ways ofimagining what is this thing
that is transcendent or biggerthan us, and how do you
experience it?
And for some people it's anameable other bigger being.
For some people it's tuckingtheir kids in at night and
feeling their heartbeat andfeeling this overwhelming sense
(23:55):
of love.
For some people it's being outin the middle of a lake on a
sunny day.
I think there are so manydifferent ways to experience it
and any way that we try todefine it, we'll never measure
up to what it is.
So it's hard for me to describereally that.
So it's hard for me to describereally that and I think it's
(24:18):
feeling and an experience thatif you know, you know if you've
had it.
No, and I guess this is part ofmy work again and why I've been
grateful to not be in a hurry,to have tons of clients and get
out there and be busy full-timewith working with so many people
, because I've been able to takea real deep dive and help
people access a place thatsometimes they're ready to go
there, have a rich spirituallife, and other times they might
(24:40):
not have the language or theexperience around it, and so
it's like helping people accessthis side.
I remember this is slightlydifferent, but I remember
singing at the bedside ofsomeone who was dying in the
convalescent home a number ofyears ago with Threshold Choir.
We were invited into their roomby the family.
The person was laying in beddying.
There were three, I think,family members there.
(25:02):
It was quite tight in the roomA person on the chair on one
side of the bed, a person on thechair on the other side and
then a person kind of wedged upagainst the dresser and we had
to kind of wedge ourselves inthere too.
So it was quite tight,pre-pandemic and I remember sort
of not being able to kind oftake everyone in the room in
just because of the angle and itwas a bit awkward.
(25:23):
I couldn't quite get a sense ofhow this was landing on that
person at the end of the bed.
We were there to sing for dyingperson, but it can be a real
gift for the family as well.
And he was I'm going to go witha very like the stereotypical
judging mind of you know he kindof looked like maybe a farmer
or he didn't look like the kindof guy who would necessarily ask
(25:45):
you to a threshold choir tocome sing lullabies for their
dying person, as judgmental asthat sounds.
And afterwards we went out tothe lobby as we were leaving and
he came out and he said I'venever experienced anything like
that in my life.
I'm not a religious person, I'mnot a musician or whatever, but
you took me to a place that Ididn't know existed and it's
(26:08):
like finding that openingwhatever it is for a person.
We all have this inner worldgoing on and we're able to
access it with the rightapproaches that are gentle and
that are open to the fact thatthere are a multitude of ways to
experience transcendence ordeep connection, meaning making
(26:29):
all of those things.
Catherine Gryba (26:30):
What a gift, carla, that you have and what an
amazing journey you've been on,and you know, I think it really
speaks to the importance oflistening to those signs that we
have for ourselves.
But you're right, it can be asmuch a challenge as figuring out
what do I do with this?
What is it?
I know what it's not, but Idon't know what it is, and so
(26:55):
you know, to hear yourexperience going through to
finding you know what that lookslike, I think is quite
remarkable.
So thank you, thank you verymuch.
Karla Combres (27:06):
Thank you both very much.
Peggie Koenig (27:11):
If you've learned just one thing about change
while listening to this podcast,please subscribe on Apple or
Spotify and share with a friendthis episode recorded via Zoom
audio.
Producers Peggy Koenig andCatherine Greiba.
Executive Producer.
Koenig, leadership Advisory.
Theme music La Pompe, writtenby Chris Harrington.
(27:33):
Music Publisher Envato Market.
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