134 - Jared Lee - Faith, Philosophy, and Forming Your Own Code - Getting After It

Episode Transcript
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Brett (00:00):
I'm good to go, good to go, man.
Well, right on, jared.
Thanks for coming on, dude, I'mexcited.
I can't wait actually.

Jared (00:07):
Yeah, this is definitely exciting.
I am definitely a littlenervous because this is some
deep stuff and I just finishedmy outline like 20 minutes ago.

Brett (00:16):
but let's roll, I love it because you're one of the most
prepared guests.
Not a lot of people come withan outline, so I'm excited to
see where it goes, and this hasbeen what two months in the
making.
Almost We've talked about itfor a while.
That's right.

Jared (00:28):
You've been dropping seeds on me.
I'm like I don't think I can dothis, but you know I have a
passion that's similar to yoursin different area and I listened
to your podcast and you knowyou inspired me.

Brett (00:39):
So happy to be here, man.
It's, uh, you know, all shipsrise together, so, um, yeah, but
happy to have you on.
I'm excited to go into whatwe're talking about today.
It is going to get a littledeep, so I do want to ask you
how you got interested in allthe different philosophies that

(01:02):
we're going to talk about andand that kind of I guess picture
starting there, like how didyou get interested in in
philosophy and exploringdifferent religions and, um,
just understanding what they,what they believe?

Jared (01:14):
Yeah, we're definitely going to go into that.
Uh, so I really wanted tounderstand why people go on
their knees, why people are livethe way that they live and to
such a great extent, like,dedicate themselves, wear
different clothing, get on theirknees and pray five times a day
, have different gods theyworship, read different texts

(01:35):
and really dedicate themselvesto different things.
Yeah, because life's short andyou've got to make the most of
it.
You've got to get after it,right?
Yeah, get after it.

Brett (01:42):
You've got to do it.
I love it.
You got to make the most of it.

Jared (01:43):
You got to get after it right.
Yeah, get after it.
You got to do it.
I love it.
Yeah.
So I did have some things Iwanted to go into.
If you're ready for this, let'sgo.
Okay, yeah, I'm excited.
Okay, so, an area that I thinkreally ties us all together.
I was thinking, okay, there'sdifferent religions out there

(02:05):
and what really is one of thecore aspects of life and I think
a great way that has beentalked about in the past is
through Plato the philosopherand CS Lewis.
So Plato, he created this thingcalled the tripartite soul, and

(02:26):
these are some words that arereally hard to say he was Greek.

Brett (02:30):
right, Plato was a Greek.
Yeah, he was like.

Jared (02:31):
Greek or something like that.
Yeah, I think he's Greek, oneof those guys, and he had three
parts.
So he had logisticon, whichmeans the mind, thumoydes, which
is the chest, and epithumeticon, which is the mind through my
desk, which to the chest, and EE P T U M E T K, which is the
belly.
I don't even know how to say it.
That's like someone, how yousay it, you did better than I

(02:52):
would.

Brett (02:53):
So that's awesome.
So we have the mind, the chestand the belly the belly.
Okay, yeah.

Jared (02:59):
And I think people are going to resonate with this
really well because it's superbasic.
People are going to resonatewith this really well because
it's super basic.
Yeah, like the mind you thinkwith it, you rationalize the
belly, you have appetites, youeat things, you have desires,
natural desires for things like,oh, like I want to, uh, I'm
really hungry, I need to getfood.
Or, uh, I really need to getsome entertainment.
Right now I'm going to likescroll through tick, tock, yeah.

Brett (03:21):
You spend hours on tick tock.

Jared (03:22):
Yeah, tick tock.
Yeah, you spend hours on ticktock.
Yeah, and other people too.
They have greed.
There's vices, greed, drugs,sex, whatever it can be multiple
things uh, and the chest isreally the part of that.
Uh is highlighted by cs lewisand I think it's an interesting
part where I'd like to go andtalk about.

Brett (03:36):
Yeah I'm, I'd love it.
Yeah, I think that's.
That's what we've kind ofdiscussed.
A little bit of work is howthese different religions fill
their chest, almost, you know,and and take in you know stuff
into their heart and and buildtheir spirit almost, because,
like you said, we've talkedabout this before a lot of
people just feed the mind andthey feed the stomach, um, which

(03:58):
you know.
If you're just feeding into allyour desires like that's, it's
gonna it's gonna be aninteresting life like I don't
know, without discipline, Ithink it's uh, it's tough so,
yeah, you can have an empty life.

Jared (04:09):
You can turn into like this robot who's just like
trying to go through the motions.
Maybe you're like super careeroriented and you just don't
really feel like you have thatlove and passion in life.
Yeah, we'll talk about passionand and really trying to get
after it, what, what are thethings we're going to be
passionate about?
Um, so, uh, what I want to sayabout this is that, with uh,

(04:33):
these three pieces, cs lewis,like I said, focus on the chess
and how people are, uh, livingwithout chess.
He says men without chess,that's exactly how his phrase
has written um, and he goes intodifferent areas of hey, like
people are emotionally not there, or they're, uh, not mature, uh

(04:54):
, or they don't have things, arereally altruistic about, uh,
things that they really aregoing to suffer for, and, uh, I
think what really translatesinto this is the heart and
passion.
Uh, and what passion means, uhto a lot of people is like, hey,
like I really love somethingand I'm going to do everything I

(05:15):
can to get it.

Brett (05:17):
Uh, that's true.
I do say like I have a passionfor running, but I've learned um
.
Do you know who Cameron Haynesis?
Oh, it sounds so familiar I talkabout him all the time, but
he's like, he's one of myfavorite ultra marathon guys.
He's known to be a bow hunterand I was reading a book that he
just put out.
It's called undeniable.
In that book he talks aboutpassion, specifically, and how

(05:41):
passion requires sacrifice,because without sacrifice, like,
you must not be passionateabout it, it must just be a
desire.
And so he's like, if you arepassionate about something like
he gave the example of bowhunting he's like the reason he
runs and does all these races isbecause his passion is bow
hunting and he wants to be asfit as he can when he gets in
the mountains, when the seasoncomes around, and a lot of that

(06:03):
is sacrificing his time, hisbody, like he's pushing it hard.
But I think that's aninteresting point is, without
sacrifice, passion becomesdesire.
And I don't know, I willprobably talk a little bit about
that here, but could besomething to relate at least a
little bit too.

Jared (06:21):
Yeah you're actually going right where I'm going, so
perfect.
You're on the ball, on the ball.

Brett (06:25):
Yeah, you already solved.

Jared (06:26):
You got, you got your chest on fire right now.
So, uh, something that's veryinteresting about the word
passion and where it comes from.
It comes from the Latin wordpatio, which means suffering, so
it's very similar to, uh,sacrificing suffering.
What are you willing to sufferfor?

(06:48):
Are you willing to suffer?
Go run for a reason I knowyou've run for other people
sometimes.
You're willing to suffer for it.
You have passion for doing that.
I think it's really interestingto see, like, hey, what are
people really willing to pushthemselves for?

(07:08):
Where?
Where are they reallypassionate about?
Hey, are you going to reallysuffer your religion, suffer the
cross like in Christianity?
Yeah, suffer, uh, get rid ofsuffering like in Buddhism.
Or uh, uh, getting rid of yoursins in Islam?
Yeah, they also believe in sins.
Um, so there are so manydifferent angles to this of

(07:29):
really developing.
Hey, like I'm willing to go sofar with my heart to fulfill my
passion, yeah, um.

Brett (07:41):
I think that's huge, like in my own experience at least,
with, like, trying to understandsuffering, at least in the
religion, like in a faithinstance I think about.
I served a mission for mychurch and that's not suffering.
I wouldn't call it suffering.
There were many lessons learned, it was a hard time, but you
are sacrificing two years to goand do the Lord's work.

(08:04):
You're going and preaching andtalk to people on the street and
trying to tell them about JesusChrist.
At the time I didn't think ofit as sacrificing, but looking
back it's like, yeah, thereactually was two years where I
could have been in college or Icould have been doing a number
of things, but instead I was outserving the Lord.
So I think it is interestingand I'm interested to hear

(08:25):
what's next.

Jared (08:26):
Yeah, so I wanted to talk about different levels of the
heart and the passion.
What makes people get after it?
Yeah, and it's your whole showhere.
So we want to get after this,right, right, and I think it's
good to scale this in twodifferent ways.
One way is to look at it in theaspect of a very weak heart.
And what is a good heart andwhat is something that's going

(08:49):
to allow you to go full tilt?
I guess, and just go at it.
Yeah, all the way, nirvana.
Right, isn't that nirvana?
Yeah, nirvana means you, youdiminish suffering, and you're,
you're.
You made it, yeah, in buddh.
Oh, there we go.
I knew it was something, yeah.
So I think, uh, somethingreally interesting to talk about

(09:11):
, uh, in this area is, uh, Ithink we know what a weak heart
is.
Weak hearts like hey, I don'thave anything I'm really willing
to to suffer for, at leastimmensely.
I'm living through my appetites.
I'm just going through themotions where I want to like be
entertained, I want to havepleasure.
Yeah, uh, just, things areanimalistic.

(09:32):
We talked about this.

Brett (09:34):
Uh, I think a really cool aspect, a good angle, is
talking about what corrupts theheart, what corrupts your
passion yeah, because I was justabout to ask, like, do you
think if, if you feed the mindand the stomach too much, that
just kind of leaves no room forthe heart to grow, which I guess
is could deteriorate it?
Um, maybe there's a better wayto say that but like, when you

(09:57):
focus on other things and you'renot trying to feed that, you
know that piece where you feelthose, um, passions come to life
, to life.
Like, yeah, I feel like youwould be empty and we've talked
about that a little bit justlike it's a hollow feeling yeah,
you can be doing well in lifeand still feel empty.

Jared (10:13):
You know people say, hey, like I'll feel happy if I cry
in a lamborghini, yeah, but whatdo you really?
You know you're crying and likeyou don't really understand the
purpose of your, your own, yourlife.
And you know, maybe you don'tfeel like connected to other
people.
Uh, you don't have a drive, youknow, maybe you, you just don't
know what the purpose isanymore.

(10:33):
Uh, yeah, I think another coolangle is looking at corruption.
I think it does explain alittle bit of you know how you
develop things and how why it'sso important to develop your
heart.
Um, I wanted to bring up anexample and I'm gonna have to
read a little bit of how youdevelop things and why it's so
important to develop your heart.
I wanted to bring up an exampleand I'm going to have to read a
little bit here, because it'stough for me to remember these
things.
But the book Ordinary Men Idon't know if you've read that

(10:58):
it's a military book.
Right, it's a military book.
Okay, so it's about World WarII police force in Germany and
they are ordered to kill Jews,jewish people, and some people
say, no, I can't do this.
There's no way I can kill aninnocent person and these are
Germans, but a lot of them endup doing it.
So there's the massacre ofJosefo I don't know how to say

(11:22):
that exactly and Major WilhelmTra trap gave the men an
unprecedented order.
He said hey, like I want you touh shoot all these people and
it included women, children andelderly and uh, he gave them the
option saying, hey, like I know, I'm giving you guys a terrible

(11:43):
order and if you want to stepout, you can step out.
And only about 10 of themstepped out.
Really, yeah, it's, it's prettyinsane, yeah, pretty low it's
pretty low yeah, it's insane,and I think this is a an area
that points at the heart.
Yeah, if you have a reallystrong heart or you have those

(12:03):
values built up, you know prettyeasily that, no, I should not
be killing these innocent people, right.
But if you're gone like yourheart's gone, you're a man
without a chest or a womanwithout a chest.
It's like, well, you know, thisis gonna help my career.
My peers are looking at me.
Yeah, um, I don't want to getpaid.

(12:23):
Yeah, like I taught, these arebad people, so I'm just going to
shoot them.

Brett (12:28):
Yeah.

Jared (12:29):
So the majority of people ended up committing massacre,
and I think the highlight ofcorruption is you get corrupted
when you don't have anythingthere.
Yeah, so when you have a heartthat can really pull through,
you're not going to be corruptedor swayed.
You already know where youstand, right.

Brett (12:50):
And you have your morals and your values like set up and
you live by them.
That's right.

Jared (12:55):
That's right.
And how do you develop thatRight?
I think it's very interesting,like when I was studying
different religions lovestudying different religions.
I love studying people like uh,I love atheist podcasts.
You just like to think howpeople think and understand the
world.
Yeah, uh, some very smartpeople in every aspect uh,
religious, non-religious, verysmart people.

Brett (13:16):
I'm sure you've heard and listened to them as well yeah,
I think the cosmic skeptic is isone of my favorite ones to
listen to on that side yeah,he's pretty, he's pretty
interesting.

Jared (13:23):
Yeah for sure, interesting.
Yeah, and uh, when you'relooking at these different
religions and and, uh, people,uh, everyone has different ways
of developing the heart and someare more concentrated than
others.
And there's not, there's notnecessarily, uh, uh, there's.

(13:46):
I mean I'm biased, I'm tryingnot to speak too biased, but
yeah, it's okay.
Uh, a little biased too, that'show, what's the best way to put
this?
There's, there's not one path.
I'd say.
You can people have differentpaths where they can learn and
come around and learn the thingsthey need to learn, uh, but
there are different focuses inlife where, hey, like, I am

(14:07):
definitely on the grind in thisreligion and I'm learning what I
need to learn and I'm gettingthe values, uh, or you can be
agnostic and still be like, hey,like, I really understand
people are, are good and I wantto be altruistic in the sense,
and I'm a humanist.
I'm not necessarily, you know,religious.

(14:27):
Maybe I'm spiritual, but Idon't go to church, I still look
humanist.
So you can still develop thesevalues, uh, but they do have
different focuses.

Brett (14:37):
Um, we go on for a while and these are from religions
here, but I don't know howinteresting this is, audience,
uh I think it's interesting,just like understanding what
because kind of what you weretalking about, like it's it's
not one path but what I'velearned from meeting people,
talking to them like otherpeople who are not of my
religion, um, and I'm achristian, I'm a member of the

(14:59):
church of jesus christlatter-day saints, but people
who I've talked to who aren't.
It's interesting because, at theend of the day, there are
things that we can agree uponand there's things that you know
, if there was an agnostic whowas a humanist, like they
probably have something in theirmind where they say, hey, I
need to serve someone, like Ineed to help others out, just
because we're all here on thisplanet together and we're the

(15:20):
human race, kind of thing.
And um, what I like about thefact that you know we're having
this conversation aboutdifferent religions is, like it
just helps me understand thatyou know people are people and
we can all relate, like youdon't have to have everything in
common with someone, but at theend of the day, like we're all
here together, we might as welltry and make the most of it, and
I think that's kind of aninteresting angle is, like, you

(15:45):
know, at least someone mightbelieve something completely
different than me, but there'ssomething that I can also agree
upon with them and yeah, I'msure we'll talk about some of
those things and some of thesimilarities, but yeah, yeah,
yeah, that's a great point andthanks for giving a more of a
segue for going into thesereligions.

Jared (16:01):
I think I think we should .
I can talk about thesereligions at a high level and
just get a flavor for how thesereligions approach things and
maybe we can, if I'm able to,maybe tie it together.

Brett (16:15):
We'll see how it goes.
We got this.
We got this.

Jared (16:17):
It's going to be good, so we can start with Buddhism.
I think Buddhism is a prettyunderstandable religion.
Uh, it does not believe in gods.
You can, yeah, believe in nogods and be buddhist.
Uh, you can also believe ingods and be buddhist too.
Um, because buddha?

Brett (16:38):
was a prophet.
Right, he was considered aprophet uh, is buddha a prophet?

Jared (16:44):
um, and it's.
I actually don't know if he'sconsidered a prophet.
Is Buddha a prophet?
I actually don't know if he'sconsidered a prophet exactly,
but prophet-like.
I don't know if he could see inthe future he's respected like
a prophet.
But in Buddhism the coreaspects is removing suffering.

(17:07):
It's basic.
I mentioned that earlier.
And what you do to reachnirvana is you extinguish the
flame essentially, which isinteresting because you try to
remove suffering in your lifeand you also see life has
suffering in general, where youachieve this peace.
Yeah, so if I'm a really goodBuddhist, I can connect with you

(17:31):
and see your suffering and I'dbe like okay, like suffering in
general is something we shouldavoid.
And there's different things inBuddhism that they recognize.
They call it the Eightfold Path, which is based off the four
noble truths.
A lot of stuff we don't gothrough all this but I'm gonna
give you a taste.

Brett (17:48):
I remember, yeah, so I, I think I told you I took a world
religion class and I rememberlearning about those two things,
the four noble truths, and thenthe the eight something path.
I can't remember what you saideightfold path.
Eightfold path, yeah, um.
So yeah, I mean I mean let uh,let's talk a little bit about,
yeah, what they believe in thatkind of thing.

Jared (18:06):
Yeah, so, um, the eightfold path is really
developing yourself to havethese pieces, and this is going
to sound, uh, pretty basic, buteightfold path is right
Understanding, right Thought,right Speech, right Action,
right Livelihood, right Effort,livelihood, right effort, right

(18:26):
mindfulness and rightconcentration.
Uh, and this is uh, this isbased off the four around the
four noble truths is that, um,all beings suffer, experience
suffering.
Uh, the cause of suffering is,is craving, and fundamental

(18:49):
ignorance is two, three is uh,the cessation of, of, uh,
suffering comes with thecessation of craving, and the
path which is the method we mustfollow to and suffering is that
of the noble, uh, a noble, no,no, a full path, yeah, uh, so
this is practice through karma.

(19:10):
Um, karma has, uh, either goodskill or bad skill, and when you
have good skill, you, you'regoing around, around, around the
eightfold path, you're speakingthe right things, you're
thinking the right things, andpath, you're speaking the right

(19:33):
things, you're thinking theright things and while doing
this, you'll eventually, um, uh,reach a place where you can
have a, be more susceptible tonirvana and see suffering.
So that's the taste of buddhism, yeah, and it's very uh,
getting rid of the self, sogetting yourself, getting rid of
suffering, because the self iswhat suffers and I can
extinguish the flame ofsuffering and get in touch with,
uh, those, those around me and,yeah, in the world that's
interesting.

Brett (19:53):
Uh, yeah, don't they do like fast um, they go on.
They fast for weeks, don't they?
Or is that the more thebuddhist monks?

Jared (20:02):
yeah, the buddhist.
So there are different types ofbuddhism.
Uh, people do focus ondifferent ways and monks do have
a more extreme uh practice ofhey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna fast,
I'm gonna try to like isolation,I know they do that?
yeah, isolates, and they're justtrying to uh diminish the self.

(20:23):
Yeah, try to get rid of thatand reach uh nirvana, which is
the ultimate goal, which isgetting rid of samsara, which is
the cycle of rebirth.
It's a rebirth.
We can go into that later if wehave time, but that is
essentially Buddhism in anutshell.
I'm not a Buddhist, but that'spretty much what it is.
It's really good.

(20:43):
If you're a really goodBuddhist, you're a really
awesome person, and thenHinduism is really awesome too.

Brett (20:51):
Yeah, see, this is the one I'm excited about, because
this is the one I know leastabout.
Okay, I'm ready Jared.

Jared (20:59):
You're ready for this?
Okay, so Hinduism also believesin karma.
Uh, and karma also has skill.
Um, this is around a differentpractice called uh, yoga, and
you might think of yoga peopleyeah, stretching and doing the
exercises.

Brett (21:19):
Yeah, downward dog and stuff.

Jared (21:21):
That's what I was thinking immediately yeah,
that's right, yeah, that'scalled hatha yoga, which is part
of raja yoga.
Raja yoga is one of the fouryogas.
Um, but these different yogasare different paths people can
take to um become one.
So it's very it's it's like theflip of buddhism, but very

(21:42):
similar to buddhism.
Buddhism, uh, so buddhism willtake the concept of life and
everything and cease suffering,and hinduism will flip it and
say, okay, like I'm going tobecome one part of the ocean,
I'm going to drop in the ocean,I'm going to try to become one
of life and create lifeinteresting.
So they operate on on the fourpaths of yoga and that also

(22:07):
leads to what's called Dharma,and Dharma is both a list of
kind of commandments, I guessyou could say if you're a
Christian, but also gives youroom to be intuitive and learn
what's good and wrong, good andbad, and live your life that way

(22:31):
.
And also it leads in rebirth,and when you practice better,
you can have a better rebirth,and when you practice bad, you
become like a squirrel or adirty animal or something less
worth in life.
I mean, I'll be honest, I kindof think it would be cool to be
a squirrel or, you know,something less worth worth in
life.

Brett (22:45):
I mean, I'll be honest, I kind of think it'd be cool to
be a squirrel, yeah.

Jared (22:48):
You're fast and stuff.

Brett (22:49):
You fast jump from trees, whatever.
You find lots of stuff sointeresting.
So, based on your actions, youcan come back as a lion.
If you're a good person, maybe,or if you're a bad person, then
it's.
I'm going to rat in New YorkCity.

Jared (23:01):
Yeah, I don't know how they, I don't know they have
lions.
But yeah, the rat in New YorkCity could definitely be like
okay, you practice poorly.

Brett (23:08):
You're a bad person, yeah .

Jared (23:12):
And then for them it's not nirvana, it's moksha, and
once you with moksha, youachieved atman, which means
you're with one, you reachreality and uh, it's interesting
because you become a part ofreality and you also feel for

(23:34):
everything.
If you ever listen to a hinduleader, they sound so beautiful
when you talk to them, justsuper mesmerizing and like we
live on this planet and like, uh, this ball of dust in the sky
and like I don't know.
They can talk way morebeautifully than I can, but it's
very poetic and superphotic.
It's very beautiful, verypeaceful, uh, very joyful and uh

(23:56):
also, um, ceasing suffering too.
So they there's a lot of talkabout these religions.
I'm like freezing through themsuper fast uh, so I'm not giving
them full justice.
Like you mentioned thebuddhists, they will fast and
they will uh abstain for things.
So they also believe like greedcauses suffering and uh,

(24:22):
different types of appetite,like what we talked about
earlier, are main causes forsuffering yeah so that's why
they abstain from so much stuff,or like they try to fast remove
themselves because they want todiminish the suffering that
they feel in life.
Yeah, so they live veryminimalistically.

Brett (24:38):
Uh, buddhist you yeah, that's pretty true, though, like
I mean, greed causes suffering,like all those things that you
mentioned.
The desires they causesuffering because in a sense,
it's like those have controlover your actions is, if you're
a greedy person, then you'regoing to find out how you can
make money all the time andthat's probably going to look
like long hours, um, lots ofheadaches, lots of challenges

(25:00):
along the way, uh, which, at theend of the day, the only thing
you're getting is some, somemoney.
So you're sacrificing all yourtime and spending your efforts
doing things that might not behelping your heart at all but
could be helping you know youractual materialistic wealth, and
I think that's that's a greatthing.
That like, like I was saying inthe beginning, like we can all

(25:21):
relate to these kinds of thingsbecause, like greed is, we can
all, I think, agree that that'sa bad thing.
Like being a greedy person isnot necessarily great.
But, um, and controlling thedesires, like it's funny because
when I always talk about fatbrett on this podcast, yeah, I
used to be a fat and fat littlekid, but the desires of the back
then were like I'm just gonnaeat all this food because it's

(25:42):
delicious, and I didn't know atthe time, but you know, I gained
some weight and I was bad atsports after that and like all
these things happened, but likethat is suffering and my body
was suffering because it wasgetting terrible things and um,
I mean, it's just interesting.
Sorry to cut you off there, butyeah, I think it's like there's
a lot of tie-ins that we canmake, just as people with these
religions so yeah, yeah, theyare very uh, similar to each

(26:06):
other, uh, in many differentaspects.

Jared (26:09):
Um, and we'll tie it back .
Um, yeah, we'll tie it backpretty soon.
Um, I want to pull up anexample, uh, that I think is
really interesting and I lovehow you talked about, you know,
greed is, you know, pretty badand it's like it's an over
appetite of the belly.
Is you don't want to make thatgreater than what your heart can

(26:32):
offer you?
Um, like you don't want to haveyour stomach serving or you
want, you want to have yourstomach serving your heart
instead of your mind servingyour stomach.
Uh, cause that's really wherelife is your passions.
I think, a really interestingexample and this is from the New
Testament.
So, yeah, this is not superbiased, but this is just an

(26:56):
example that I think is reallyinteresting for people who are
Christian and all people who arenot Christians when Jesus was,
when he was going up with thecross to die for everybody, yeah
, uh, I thought there's a reallyinteresting verse uh, that he
refused to have, uh, wine andmyrrh and carry the, the full

(27:21):
pain, uh, to then get lifted.
He was offered that on the way,which is pretty much a
painkiller.
Yeah, say, hey, please takethis painkiller.
And he's like, no, I'm going toexperience this pain.
And carried it up which is sucha small piece but it was such a
powerful verse.
Yeah, this is Luke 23, 23, whereI'm like, wow, so many times in

(27:44):
our lives we feel like we haveto avoid pain, but when you
really want to suffer and reallyfeel it, you really have
passion, you really are going togo through it and take it to
that level of I'm going to gothrough whatever it takes to get
there.
And Christ, of course, ifyou're christian, it's really

(28:06):
really strong.
Uh, he has a very strong heart,obviously.
Uh, especially we're talkingabout two christians here yeah,
for that pure love of of peopledying for everybody yeah, for
insane, it's amazing yeah, forall the sins, um, which

(28:31):
translates really well forpractically all the religions,
even though, like, if you'reislam, you don't think christ is
all that, but like you believein christ, but but what?
What really is interesting hereis when you're looking at the
heart and think of, like thegreatest heart there's in my
mind.
There aren't that many examplesthat compare to Christ, or if

(28:52):
any at all.

Brett (28:53):
Yeah, it's a very, very small list.

Jared (28:56):
Very small list, if any.
Yeah, if any, yeah.
So we're talking about goingpast all suffering.
Suffering, uh, which buddhismis like?
Okay, that's, our main goal isto see suffering, to remove the
self.
Yeah, who did that better thanchrist?
For um reaching moksha andbeing one with the life and

(29:17):
what's most important in life?
Who died for life, for every,all lives?
I mean, it's, it's prettyself-explanatory for people,
yeah, but there's so much powerin that, and how he went so deep
into walking through the painpurposely to do it.
I think there's something to besaid there.
Yeah, that's amazing.

Brett (29:38):
It's like.
I mean, when we talk aboutChristianity, we all believe
that Christ suffered for all ofus experiencing everything that
we've experienced, and so if hewas to take the wine in the
mirror, he wouldn't experienceit to the degree that I think we
would need to feel thatconnection with him.
That's my take on it, butthat's interesting.

(30:00):
I think that's a really coolstory.
I don't think I've heard thatin the Bible before or noticed.
Noticed it maybe I just didn'tnotice it, but it goes by super
fast yeah, it's one verse,that's it that's so cool though
yeah, yeah for sure.

Jared (30:13):
So like when you see people run, it's like I, I like
your example of running forother people.
It's like you're you're runningthrough the with pain.
I mean, you know, if you didthat with, like I don't know, a
car, I'm going to drive a milefor this person.

Brett (30:27):
It's like not the same thing, right?
Yeah, I mean, my most recentrace that I did for someone was
uh well, we do team Tim everyyear for my father in law who
passed away from cancer, um, butlast year in July I ran my
first 50 K, which is 31 miles um, in the desert of Arizona and I
was doing it for my friendJordan at the time and I almost

(30:49):
quit a mile 15.
Cause, like I was throwing upevery quarter mile.
It was a rough thing Like Itrained in Utah, not as hot as
Arizona, so I go down there andI think I just had heat
exhaustion or stroke like a heatstroke or something.
But at mile 15, it was a loopand that's like halfway.
So I got back to the aidstation.
I was sitting there with myfamily and stuff and they're all
like you know, we won't, wewon't be disappointed if you

(31:11):
pull out of the race Like it'stotally okay.
You're throwing up like you'renot ready for this.
And then I don't know what itwas, but like I just kept
thinking of of Jordan he hadstage four colon cancer at the
time I was like I'm he's goingthrough pain that I can't even
comprehend and I said I wasgoing to do this for him, like
I'm gonna have to suffer just afew more hours just to show this

(31:32):
guy that, hey, I like, I loveyou enough to to suffer for you,
um, and it just, I don't know,helps you stop thinking about
yourself and you find thatstrength to just keep going.
It's a, it's an interestingthing.
But yeah, I think running forsomeone else and running for a
purpose for me it's just like,hey, I'm willing to suffer with
you.
I know life is pretty bad rightnow.

(31:54):
You're going through it, but Ilove you enough to do what I can
to show you I'm suffering withyou.

Jared (32:01):
Yeah, that's a great example of having heart, guys.

Brett (32:07):
I mean I wouldn't say I'm to be put on a pedestal or
anything, because definitely not.
Like I make my own mistakes andstuff, but I don't know, it's
just like little things, youknow.
Going back to hinduism, likewe're all here together, um,
like why not try and make themost of it and try and support
each other through their owntrials?
So yeah, I mean, I think it'sit's just a good thing and I

(32:29):
think it's it's it's good for meto not think about myself all
the time.
I think it's good for mostpeople, but, you know, just gets
you in a different perspective.

Jared (32:37):
Yeah, yeah and um, I think, I think that's that's
super, super strong.
You know, for you to experiencethat, and a lot of people in
life they need to take thoseopportunities.
Yeah, they need to exercisetheir hearts.
Uh, it can be.
You know, running that's oneexample.
That's not going to be anexample for me, because I

(32:57):
haven't really run far, that'sokay.
But, uh, you know, if you'regonna test your heart, I think
it's.
Uh, maybe you need to, um, getout of your comfort zone and
forgive somebody that wrong toyou.
It's super basic.

Brett (33:11):
Maybe you need to that's hard to do sometimes, oh yeah.

Jared (33:13):
Forgiveness is a hard thing, oh, super hard.
Yeah, you just gotta likerealize there's something
greater here, um, and go afterit.
Uh, there's many differentexamples and go after it.
There's many different examples.
Another thing I wanted to pullup is how the heart can show a

(33:33):
path, um, and this is somethingthat is kind of like what's that
called?
It's compounding, so itcompounds, okay.
So if we have a good example ofsomeone doing something good,
uh, we can see like, oh, likewow, like that person is able to

(33:58):
go through that type of painand make that type of sacrifice.
Why?
Why we watch these movies ofdifferent heroes.
We're watching frodo take thering to mordor, yeah, and we're
watching you know, captain,america's saving.

Brett (34:11):
I just watched the winter soldier yesterday when I was at
the gym, so you know he'ssaving the world.
Yeah, that kind of stuff.

Jared (34:17):
Saving the world.
You know, the hero's journey isbeautiful Um it is so good.

Brett (34:22):
I love the hero's journey .
It's so great, right, good.

Jared (34:25):
Yeah, we see it a lot, but we it never gets old.

Brett (34:31):
Um yeah, marvel's kind of had their time, but then
there's Rocky.
We got Rocky.

Jared (34:36):
Yeah, rocky, great hero.
We got Fast and Furious 2,which kind of has Rocky's outs
when they go to space.

Brett (34:41):
that's my favorite one.

Jared (34:43):
I actually haven't seen that one or heard about it.

Brett (34:46):
They become more and more insane as time goes on, and
that's why I love it.
They're just unbelievable.
That's great.

Jared (34:57):
But anyways, fast and fierce is another episode.
We'll go there later.
Yeah, so when you have a superweak heart, uh, it's super hard
to inspire people.
They think that you're you'refake or you don't have a strong
purpose.
They can see in your voice,they can see in, like, how you
act.
But when you're able to sufferand you suffer greatly for
something, uh, you bring adifferent type of leadership,
you bring a different type offorce, uh, in the world that

(35:20):
people can recognize and say,hey, that guy lives for
something.
Maybe I can live for somethingas well, yeah, uh.
So you have great examples inreligion.
Uh, you have great examples inlife, like heroes in world war
two, um, great examples in life,like heroes in World War II,

(35:42):
gods in religion, differenttypes of suffering.
They really open their heartsfor us to open our hearts.
That's how you get inspired bythese different things.
So it's extremely powerful whenyou have obviously a heart
where, hey, I can overcomeeverything.
My, my appetite is not going toslow me down.

(36:04):
Yeah, I'm not going to letanything slow.
This is like david gogginsstuff.
Yeah this is goggins coming outthis guy is coming out, I'm
gonna run that, I'm not gonnaswear here.
Carry the boats, carry theboats.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, uh.
You get inspired by that.
People get inspired by Galgans.
I got inspired by Galgans, I'msure you have too.

Brett (36:24):
Oh, yeah, I mean like I'll play some of those things
in my head all the time, likewhen I'm, when I'm feeling sorry
for myself or something likethat.
I'm just like you know what healways talks about, how, and of
course I will say he's a littleon the more crazy side of things
, like he's very his life issuffering like that's all he
does um but he does have somegreat points, like one thing

(36:48):
that he says that I love is whenyou go to war with yourself,
you will find peace, and I thinkthat's true.
Like when you're trying tounderstand yourself, understand
your values, and when I've beenrunning in the mountains or
something I feel like I'm goingto die.
Like you learn a lot aboutyourself.
Are you, are you able to keepgoing?
Can you keep pushing likeforward?

(37:09):
And do you have what it takes?
Um?
Is your heart strong enough todo that?
Because a lot of the times whenyou run, your mind quits before
your body does.
But if you have a desire tokeep going and that's strong,
it's like when I was in thedesert running for Jordan, I was
like, hey, I'm going to keepgoing, there's no decision to be
made here.

(37:29):
So, yeah, I think it'sinteresting.
Like his, his whole thing is,you know, he suffers to learn
about himself and to um,understand his own mind and
become, he tries to say, youknow, the hardest blank word in
the world.
So, um, yeah, I think it'sinteresting.

(37:50):
But Goggins is someone whosuffers and inspires other
people, like you said, yeah,yeah.

Jared (37:54):
I think it's a good example of hey look, lot of
heart I'm gonna go push throughum, and there's different
flavors of things that reallywill drive you and give you that
belief and truth in life.
So people get inspired bydifferent things like, hey, I
got inspired by goggins, I gotinspired by this influencer.
I got inspired by thisinfluencer, I got inspired by

(38:16):
this TikTok video.
It could be anything.
This is where an area offinding truth in life is really
important.
This is something we could talkabout for a good amount of time
.
I don't know if I want to get sonerdy here on this podcast.

Brett (38:34):
We can get as nerdy as we want.
This is the Gettin' Averageshow.
There's no rules.
Okay, we get after.

Jared (38:39):
Until we're done, no rules um, yeah, so there are
different types of things thatpeople get uh wrapped in.
So you can definitely have aheart and say, hey, like I'm
gonna go do this thing and bemisguided.
Uh, I'm sure you know it's hardto say like, hey, every nazi

(39:03):
that committed a terrible act,they are a hundred percent going
straight to hell.
Yeah, um, we want, maybe wewant to think that.
But what if you're in theirshoes?
You know, like what if youthought you were doing the best
you could?
And this is what truth is, andthey don't know any better.
Some young kids were caught upin that, like 14-year-olds,

(39:23):
15-year-olds, 16-year-olds, theydon't know jack.
Hitler's youth.
Yeah, there's a whole programfor it Exactly.
It's hard to cast and judgepeople so harshly.

Brett (39:36):
Of course I'm definitely getting against the holocaust
and nazis.
I'm like no, nazis are notgreat people, not?

Jared (39:39):
not very clear there's some people go for sure, going
to hell, like for sure somepeople are going to hell
absolutely.
Yeah, uh, but people can get bemisguided in life and go down
different routes and havepassion and and fall uh and and
try to get back up.
You know people don't walk in astraight line.
Yeah, I don't think you have orI have.

(39:59):
I don't think anyone has yeah,it's impossible.
Uh.
So finding the core pieces inlife of what really is going to
make you run, what's reallygoing to make you go, uh is a
huge, huge question.
Um, I, I actually asked this isfunny, I did ask neil to

(40:21):
progress tyson one question yougot to talk to him.
I gotta ask him one question.
Okay, all right, I asked himneil, what is the most important
question in the world?
And it's pretty basic.
Yeah, what did he say?
I'm interested.
He said he looked up in the skyor the ceiling for like two
seconds.
And he's pretty basic.
Yeah, what did he say I'minterested?
He said he looked up in the skyor the ceiling for like two
seconds and he's like what is mypurpose?

(40:44):
Super basic, yeah, and I think,yeah, that's true.
But really, what brings you joyis the ultimate thing of what
should drive your heart.
I think it's pretty basic, butthat is the guiding force for

(41:04):
your happiness.
That's going to make you run,it's going to make you love your
wife or your husband.
That's going to make you go tothe nth degree.
Forget about your stomach,forget about your belly, live
with your heart and go forward.
And what brings you joy is suchan elusive question, like how

(41:25):
you know if I eat this Carl's Jrburger, am I going to be joy?
You know I'm going to have that, you know who knows, am I in
the moment?

Brett (41:33):
Am I?

Jared (41:33):
in the moment.
You know, maybe, yeah, whoknows or is there a higher way
of living, and I do think ittakes exercise to build that
muscle.
I don't think, as babies arefully there.
You have to mature, you have todevelop your, your chest, you
have to be able to to run, youhave to be able to to be a
leader for others, uh, and foryourself, right, um, and

(41:57):
developing that in the aspect inthe lens of different religions
is very interesting, and also,being a, an agnostic slash
atheist is also interesting too.
Uh, when you're looking atagnostic, agnosticism and
atheism, uh, it's interestingbecause joy, what brings them

(42:18):
joy, uh, is essentially what Iwould believe in, what you'd
believe, but, uh, what theyimagine, right, what I study,
because I've spent hourslistening to them and I love
listening to them is a rationalthought and this you can still
feel.
Good, I don't want to talk aboutthose people.
Yeah, because I think atheismand agnosticism is the easiest

(42:39):
to understand of all thereligions from the aspect of
just, naturally just living.

Brett (42:44):
Yeah, it's very logical.

Jared (42:46):
It's logical, extremely logical.
If you're like the cosmicskeptic, you're super logical.
You can think through things.
You can be very humanistic.
He's also against suffering.
He talks about that.
He's like I hate how they'resuffering and that's actually
one of the reasons why hedoesn't believe in god, which is
interesting, uh, but um, yeah,when you think of hey, like,

(43:08):
what am I gonna have?
That brings joy in life.
I think that's harder to definewhen you're agnostic, atheists,
because the moral standard ismore developed into like, what
current, current, uh, society islike.
In history, you know, maybeburning a witch was like, oh,
yeah, like that seems like agood idea, right, like in

(43:28):
medieval times, yeah, yeah, thisis a witch.
You burn them, of course yeahthey're evil.
They're evil like, yeah you know, like a way against a duck
monty python or something.

Brett (43:37):
Yeah, monty Python, that's exactly what I was
thinking.

Jared (43:40):
If they would, they should float.
Yeah, that's right, that'sright.
So you know, of course we havetechnology, we get smarter, or
whatever.
Is that really like the path ofjoy?
You know, are people a thousandyears earlier less joyful than

(44:01):
they are now?
Yeah, uh, it's.
It gets really hairy when, inthe eyes of, in the lens of
agnosticism and atheism, you,it's more natural living, more
like, hey, I'm just gonna likelive my life and that's fine.
Uh, to that extent.
But is there a definition of joy?
You know what is joy?
Joy?
And I think it's hard forpeople to define in general.
But I think it's even harder todefine if you're agnostic or
atheist.

(44:21):
That's just my own opinion.
I'm sure some of them have.
Hey, this is what it is.
But it's hard to like definethat, saying, okay, this is the
pure thing in my life that willbring me that joy.
When you look at the otherreligions, it's like this is
what brings you joy yeah, moksha, uh, nirvana, uh, paradise.
In islam, paradise is theheaven.

(44:42):
Uh, they got another word forit, I can't think of the top of
my head, but that's what theycall heaven.
And then you have uh, eternallife and in christianity
exaltationation.
Yeah, and how to get there.
They're pretty defined paths,like we talked about Buddhism

(45:03):
and Hinduism.
Also, in Islam and Christianitythey're pretty similar Getting
rid of sins and living arighteous life.
In Islam and Christianity, livewith your have posterity, live
with family.
Be honest, all these religionsteach.
okay, I guess buddhism is reallyto teach families, but it

(45:24):
teaches, they teach theprinciples of being a good
person, yeah, and these are thefundamental morals of of having
joy.
And morality is an interestingtopic where, okay, morality,
there's good and evil and Ithink people have to accept that
.
If you don't accept that, thenit's kind of weird.
Just like, okay, like if youshoot yourself in a week in your
foot with a gun, is that bad orgood?

(45:45):
Yeah, it's pretty, it's bad,it's pretty bad it's pretty bad.

Brett (45:48):
It's pretty bad.
You got some issues.
You got some issues yourself inthe foot yeah.

Jared (45:51):
yeah, it's like, okay, there's getting's good and bad
in life, right?
So, yeah, there are things inlife where you can start finding
a path that, hey, maybe youshould look into these.
And that's kind of why I liketo look in different religions,
because, hey, there's somethings that people will go on
their knees for they live everyday thinking about these things.
How do they have joy in life?

(46:12):
And I think it's something thatpeople should try to find and
focus on and get after it.

Brett (46:19):
you know, yeah, get after .
That's right.
Yeah, have you noticed anycommon like commonalities
between them with joy, besideslike the things you talked about
, I guess?

Jared (46:28):
yeah, you kind of mentioned them yeah, yeah, no, a
big thing I haven't mentionedyet is, um, the concept of
christianity is repentance, andI guess that I think it's the
same in Islam.
I'm trying to remember off thetop of my head.
It's the same thing.
They believe in sins as well,and Hinduism and Buddhism
believe in it.
Refining your intentions andremoving suffering, and that

(46:49):
concept of repentance across theboard and refining yourself, is
very universal, extremelyuniversal.
It's a huge practice of hey,I'm going to get rid of the bad
and and taking the good.
Yeah, become a better person.
Uh, that is so similar acrossthe board.
It's, it's crazy.

Brett (47:09):
Uh, I mean that's one thing you talked about with,
like the different paths.
Everyone is on that they're notgoing to be straight, like.
You'll probably have timeswhere you're doing really good
and then you know you mess upand boom, it's like a another
dip and then you're kind ofmaking your way out.
But it's those times when youare doing well but then you fall
into that dip.
That's when you learn thelesson and you're like well, I
think I need to change somethings about myself, because

(47:30):
that didn't feel good and I'mnot feeling great about myself.
So I'm going to repent and getbetter and get back after it,
try and do what I can to be abetter person and influence
society in a better way, andthen you'll do good again and
then boom, it's a roller coaster.
But as long as you'recontinually going up or the
stock market might be a betterexample you'll have times where

(47:52):
you're going up and down andthen eventually, hopefully, it
ends as a game.
Yeah.
I think it's interesting becauseeveryone's path is different
and and it's going to be messy,like you're going to mess up in
your life.
You're going to do dumb thingsthat you wish you didn't.
You're going to regret them,and that's okay.
That's part of being a humanbeing, um, and it's trying to

(48:14):
understand these morals andthese principles and things like
repentance that you know, teachyou that you're not as bad as
you think you are and that we'reall in this together and we can
have joy and happiness as longas we're living in line with,
like the things that we believe,I guess.

Jared (48:34):
Yeah, yeah, totally that we believe, I guess.
So, yeah, yeah, totally, uh,shedding the things that are
slowing you down, going up.
You know it can be hard, uh,but it's part of the process of
developing joy, developing yourmorality, uh, developing, um,
you know, better world, uh,everything all together, good
and evil, um, and developingyour heart and your chest, uh.

(48:58):
So I I think I think it'scritical, uh, just to like kind
of wrap it up a little bit on myside of hey, it's super
important to recognize yourchest is something real, yeah,
to have passion, be willing tosuffer for something, uh, and

(49:20):
that thing to suffer for shouldbring you joy.
It's not just getting rid ofsuffering, but you want to chase
after something that's going toreally bring you that joy and
defining what the joy is in yourlife and find that path.
It will give you that purpose,it will give you the fire, it

(49:40):
will make you live more.
Allow you to get past yourbelly and your appetite.
Yeah, allow you to shareawesome experiences with people.
Um, it'll get you beyond justuh, pleasuring yourself in
different ways.

Brett (49:56):
That's not super sexual but, like you know, yeah, I mean
, hey, some of the desires mightlead to that, so be careful,
could lead to that.

Jared (50:04):
But you know, like you know, luxury vacations I mean
this can be nice, but like youknow what I'm saying, like, hey,
you watched watch tv, you know,just like, totally, just uh,
riff on like physical, yeah, um,enjoyment, which you know we do
need to like balance ourselvesand you can't just like burn
yourself out and go crazy but,uh, to really align your life to

(50:26):
a greater purpose.
And who would not want to alignthe purpose with joy?
Yeah, who would not want to dothat?
Who would not want to have theheart to go further and say, hey
, I'm going to do this thing forother people and for myself,
and I stand for this.
And it's like something where Ican live a full life.

(50:46):
That, looking behind, hey, theseare not wasted years.
I really was able to enjoythese things.
I harbored these values in mylife.
I got to share theseexperiences, uh, this love and
this path, and that's prettymuch it.
Yeah, it's pretty much.
That's in a nutshell.
We can talk about these topicsin more detail, for sure, but

(51:07):
that's kind of the whole deal.
I love it, man.

Brett (51:08):
That's it's so good, like it's super interesting when we
talk about suffering and things,because, um, another running
analogy.
I tell my wife this all thetime and she gets mad, but it's
the best metaphor for life.
I think when people say therunner's high, typically they're
referring to when they're donewith their run and they feel all

(51:30):
these endorphins runningthrough their body and they're
feeling super good.
But it's because they suffered.
Feeling super good but it'sbecause they suffered, like they
had time where they were doingsomething difficult.
And you could say the samething about lifting weights,
doing a sport.
Um, even writing, like writingis hard but I love to write and
every time I sit down and I doan entry and then like go back
and look at it, I'm always like,hey, well, that was worth it,

(51:52):
because now I have my thoughtsout and I feel like it helped me
understand my thinking and getclear about it and get some
clarity there.
But it is interesting.
It's funny because I know Imight get questions of like this
doesn't really seem like agetting after topic, but I would
argue that it very much is,because with religion it

(52:15):
requires two things I talk aboutall the time.
It's discipline and consistency,like.
You have to be disciplinedenough to to look at for other
people, to help, or try and lookoutside yourself and relinquish
the suffering you face.
And you know, if greed is yourtemptation, then you have to be
disciplined enough to not act onit.

(52:36):
And then you have to beconsistent in practicing these
virtues and and trying to liveyour life in line with whatever
you believe, and for me that's,you know, following Christ and
trying to be better every singleday repent consistently, try
and stay on top of likeunderstanding the gospels and
and spending time reading those,um, those scriptures so I can

(53:00):
get a better understanding ofthe religion and apply those
lessons to my life.
And like discipline andconsistency.
I talk about getting after inall ways, but in religion I
would say that might be one ofthe most difficult is being
disciplined with religion,because I don't know if you've
seen this before, but I have alot of friends I grew up with

(53:22):
that I went to church with andwe were all good friends and
have just started abandoningtheir morals and trying to live
a life that they want to,because I think, from our
conversation today, maybe theythought joy was going to come
from somewhere else.
They wanted to feed the desiresof their stomachs and the

(53:42):
appetites that they had, insteadof look inward and say I think
I just need to do some work onmyself first and I think there
might be something I'm missingthat could lead me to joy.
To joy, um, because I meanliving a a Christian life or,
you know, a Buddhist life, anyof the religions we've talked

(54:04):
about today.
It it does require commitmentand like, hopefully that that
stirs a passion within you tosay like, oh yeah, there are
other people out there that youknow I can get along with and I
love the fact that you're outthere, like studying different
religions, because you just wantto understand what they believe
and recognize, like, whatsimilarities we all have
together.

Jared (54:22):
Yeah, that's something I want to say.
People are very similar to eachother.
They're not so weird.
They're not so weird.
People are very similar,absolutely.

Brett (54:30):
It's so cool and yeah, I mean you can get along with with
anybody, I think, unlessthey're people like the Nazis.
Don't, don't get along withthose people, um.
But you know you can get alongwith anyone and relate to them
in some capacity, because we allsort of believe the same things
.

Jared (54:48):
A hundred percent.
So it's so true.
Uh, yeah, like people don'tlike, you know, walking on Legos
, you know, yeah, it's not good.
Everyone hates that Everyonehates.

Brett (54:58):
That Everyone knows, that feeling, everyone knows that
feeling.

Jared (55:01):
yeah, it's the worst.
It's the worst and you knowpeople like to have.
You know friends and family.
You know People.
There's commonalities acrosspretty much everybody you know
Of course there's some outliers.
You can everybody you know ofcourse there's some outliers and
you can say, hey, what aboutthose people?
Yeah, they're very, veryoutliers.
Yeah, talking about 99.9999% ofthe people that share very

(55:22):
common feelings.

Brett (55:23):
Yeah, absolutely, cause we're all humans, we all connect
on that piece.
Yeah, but I do want to ask arethere things that you do, um, to
help you like to help feed theheart in your life?
Are there any things that youconsistently do?

Jared (55:38):
Yeah, um, I think an area that is really important for
feeding the heart is harboringthose values and those things
that you know, you know bringyou, bring you joy.
Um, so say that you have, uh,say that you have, different

(56:05):
feelings in your life.
Maybe it's with, um, yourfamily in some sense, uh, or
your friends, and you're like,hey, like I really enjoy like
complimenting people, or youreally enjoy loving this person
if it's more intimate.
Uh, I'm not trying to soundlike sexual on this no, you're

(56:28):
good, okay, but intimate has.
Maybe it is I don't know, butyeah, just moments that really
lead to um a happy spot of ofhey, like these things are.
Okay, I could get into my ownphilosophy, but going to sign

(56:49):
right now, should we go with myphilosophy?

Brett (56:51):
you don't have to, you don't have to say it I can say I
can say it, it's it.

Jared (56:55):
I'm kind of sputtering my own philosophy and this is
something that's like.
I think Hinduism goes prettywell with this.
Hinduism doesn't have as muchclosure as I'd like to harbor

(57:28):
and build those values andexercise my heart on.
Yeah, and that's pretty basicand I think that you can
resonate with that too, Like youprobably have those things as
well.
Yeah absolutely so.
When you think of those thingslike hey, like, you know, even
exercise is good.
Maybe I think of a relationshipthat's hard in my life where

(57:49):
I'm like, hey, like, maybe Ijust need to like just have that
branch revived in my life, justhey, like, I'm gonna talk to
that person, I'm going to uh,make sure that they know I at
least care and respect them as aperson, and that's like a part
of that.
I'm like, wow, like that personcould be going through some

(58:12):
emotional stuff and they couldbe wavery, whatever.
And I've been able tore-establish that connection
because I know like nobody'sperfect and we all fall.
So it's.
I mean, there's multipleaspects.
How do I feed the heart?
Um, I think you exercise it andthink upon those things that
your heart strives for and worksfor, what things that bring you

(58:33):
joy, things that bring you, uh,a greater life, brings, brings
you more life yeah uh, it can beyour career, for to an extent
if it's not too, careerism canbe your your spouse.
It can be um learning aboutsomething that gives you peace.
Yeah, those things can bringyou more life in your life.
So that's kind of like myphilosophy.

Brett (58:56):
I think it's beautiful, like that really is beautiful.
It's like what can I do to justfeel more of the things that I
enjoy, like feel have my lifemore enriched through, if it is
mending a relationship withsomeone who's either wronged you
in the past or whateverhappened there, or like with me,
like I love spending time withmy wife.
She's like my best friend, bestfriend and um, that brings me a

(59:19):
lot of joy.
And um, like it's interestingbecause we're doing distance
right now, because sometimesshe'll go to arizona to fly and
then she'll come back, but it'slike weird schedule.
So on the weekends she'susually down there, but it's
like those times I'm like, oh, Iunderstand what I don't have
when she's not here and I wantto be around her all the time
because she brings me joy.
And then, like my family, it'sthe same thing.

(59:41):
And, um, one thing that I've II love that.
I know a lot of the thosereligions practice with Buddhism
, and I think Hinduismspecifically, is a meditation.
Like meditation just helps meboth, both of them for sure.
Yeah, it's just like gettingclear with my thoughts and
understand what is bothering meright now.

(01:00:03):
If anything like if I'm feelingfrustrated, like okay, well,
what's the root cause of that?
Like, how can I mend thatinternally first, um, and then
also just like praying, liketalking to god and expressing
the desires of my heart, likethose things are our daily
actions that I do that helped mefeel a little bit more closer
to you, know a God, and to otherpeople, and, um, better, better

(01:00:28):
, like I have a betterrelationship with myself because
of it, I think, too, becauseI'm not so, um, angry at myself,
myself, or like I don't beatmyself up as much as I used to,
because I used to have terribleself-talk until I understood,
like you know, I had aperspective change where I was
like Christ wouldn't want me totalk about myself this way.

(01:00:49):
So why am I?
And it's, yeah, it'sinteresting, it's like healed my
relationship with myself andalso helped me try and give more
to others.
Um, so it's, it's prettyamazing what happens when you
practice these principles, um,yeah, yeah, I mean I like your
example of self-talk.

Jared (01:01:08):
Like if you have negative self-talk, you're clouding your
life, especially at that momentwhere you can't even see the
life around you in your own life, your own path, yeah, you can't
see the path of others.
Like, uh, when you have thosegood feelings of like,
especially if you have god'sperspective good for you like
you have that now you know like,okay, that's, that's like a.

(01:01:31):
When you think of the gods ofthese religions, uh, it's the
god of abraham, for both islamand christianity, uh, the same.
And then you have, um, variousgods in hinduism and no gods in
buddhism.
But when you think of thesemain gods, uh, they all are
life-bringing and wants like thebest for you, yeah, uh, a

(01:01:52):
greater life, and uh, practicingthat and wrestling with that
perspective is very interesting,the eternal perspective, if
you're a member of the Church ofJesus Christ of Latter-day
Saints.
Yeah, exactly, but I mean, ifyou develop that, wow, like you
know, now you start thinking,okay, the sociality that we live

(01:02:12):
in now exists beyond the grave.
Like, okay, friends, family,whatever that's in now exists
beyond the grave.
Yeah, like, okay, friends,family, whatever that's gonna
exist beyond the grave, that's,if your church, the member,
jesus christ letter of sands,you believe that.
Uh, so how do you have likesustaining life?
Hey, like, I'm gonna get beyondthis self-talk, like that's
just a moment of blinking time,you know, it's like, yeah, if
you have that perspective, great, I know, I, I'm not.

(01:02:33):
I'm not preaching I'm.
You know I might sound like acult leader here, but like, no,
this is great, I, I love it.

Brett (01:02:38):
Like it really is like important, and it does take a
lot of time to develop like thatperspective and I'm I'm no, by
no means perfect, just in thatsense.
Like I think, with, um, theself-talk thing, I tried
picturing myself as a dad andlike if my kid came to me and I
was like dad, I'm so fat, likeI'm a loser, like I, I hate

(01:02:59):
myself, I'd be like what?
Like why are you talking aboutyourself that way?
Like I love you, stop, yeah.
Um, I feel like God would dothe same thing.

Jared (01:03:06):
Yeah.

Brett (01:03:16):
And it's the same thing with, like um, rebirth.
We were talking about the rat,I can't remember what that term
is called.
Uh, Samsara, yeah, Samsara,Okay, Um, but like things like
that.
Like we believe in an afterlifeand we believe that there's
something coming um, if we liverighteously and like in the way
that we should, um, whilehelping our brothers and sisters

(01:03:37):
along the way.
But, uh, yeah, I think you knowit's, it's tough to have that
kind of perspective, but it's, Ithink, through meditation,
through praying and throughpracticing the principles and
and actually being um, you know,an active member of whatever
faith or religion you believe,um, that teaches you those

(01:03:58):
things and it helps you buildthe heart at the end of the day,
Like you want to have that,that desire and that passion to
serve other people.
And that only comes from myexperience, through actually
doing it and and finding ways toimplement it into your life.

Jared (01:04:15):
Yeah, yeah, and I do want to mention that I know we
talked about this earlier.
I just I would you want tomention that if you are a really
good Buddhist, a really goodHindu, a really good uh, muslim,
really good Christian, likeacross the board, there the
hearts of those people are sostrong, yeah, absolutely

(01:04:37):
Incredibly strong, like you.
Go talk to a really strongHindu practitioner, like they
are going to be so loving andlike caring, and you'll feel it
will cut through you.
Yeah, it's not like hey, likeokay, I want to tie in some
agnostic, atheist people.
I feel like I'm leaving them outyeah, yeah, you can do that but

(01:04:59):
like uh, yeah, you can also bea really loving person if you're
obviously atheist or agnostic.
Uh, because you can have thatfamilial bond, you can have the
part where I'm a humanist.
I really care about people yeahuh and uh, yeah, it's not.
Love is not, like, restricted tochristianity, it's not even

(01:05:21):
further restricted to being amember of the church.
Jesus christ letter of saints,it's, it's, it is a universal
thing that exists, that anyonecan have and you can see with
everybody.
And, um, that I I thought it'dbe funny, um, if I did mention
this.
I mean, there's some terriblelike members of the church oh
yeah, that's true.

Brett (01:05:41):
Like I I'll say the tv show the mormon wives.
They're not.

Jared (01:05:47):
They're not members I actually don't call them out.
Yeah, I know people personallythat, um, you know, I'd say like
, yeah, they're not.
They're not great people.
I can't fully judge them, butlike they're like wow, like
you're a total, like I don'tknow.
Just they hurt people.
Yeah, they hurt people and they, you know, go to church and

(01:06:09):
like, have this facade, uh, andyou can totally be anything else
besides that.
You could be, you know, aScientologist and have it.
Be a better person than some ofthe people I believe are in
that category.

Brett (01:06:22):
Um, I mean absolutely, like there's, there's going to
be people who are like you said,like when we were talking about
at the beginning, like if theydon't have their heart bought in
, if they don't have that pieceit's, you can tell that it's
fake.
And when it's sad because inreligion that does happen like
there are people who I know inmy own religion that's like, do

(01:06:44):
you actually believe thesethings?
Like you say you do, but youractions speak nothing of of that
?
Um, yeah, so I think there'sgood and bad people in every
religion.
But, like I have met some, some, some um Muslims who are just
like the most down to earthpeople I've ever met in my life.
Um, but I'm sure there's alsosome bad ones.

(01:07:08):
Like it goes the same both ways.
Like there's always going to begood and bad people and
different levels of people beingbought into the principles and
the religions and, um, yeah, Ithink it's just interesting yeah
, yeah, for sure.

Jared (01:07:16):
The thing is that reality exists.
Yeah, uh, we live in a realityand it's people argue it's
subjective.
But when we go back to theabolition of man, which cs lewis
wrote and tate miller, by theway, uh, suggested this book for
me to read and this is really,yeah, tate miller loves All
right, I'll check it out.
Yeah, the abolition of man.

(01:07:37):
We live in a reality and it'shard to argue that, hey, this is
subjective versus objective.
We're sitting in these chairs,like we're talking to each other
.
It's pretty objective.
The correlation of what peoplesee is extremely objective.

(01:07:59):
Uh, so, developing and living ajoyful life can come from so
many different angles and thepath to get there, like you
talked about it, has its ups anddowns.
Yeah, uh, and there are somedifferent ways of like.
Hey, like, maybe, maybe acertain path you want to take

(01:08:20):
can lead you to greater joy.
Um, of course, like you and Iare gonna be a little biased,
but like, uh, there are thingsthat are a little bit more
defined.
Like, I did study some.
I read the quran, I read thebhagavad-gita.
Um, and those are beautifulbooks.
Like, I gave them five stars ongoodreads beautiful books yeah

(01:08:40):
yeah, great books, but uh, theclarity and the practice and
putting your heart in it's, inobserving life and things, it's
like, okay, some things are alittle more clear and I, I'd say
, you know, the main thing Iwould ask people in general is
just to uh practice their hearts, practice looking for joy and

(01:09:00):
not just like live off their,their stomachs, their appetites.
Yeah, the life's greater thanthat.
Uh, life has things that are sogreat that the emotions just
like burst out of you.
Yeah, instead of like oh, Ijust gotta like feel something,
I gotta get a different high, Igotta get a different high like

(01:09:21):
whatever, like, yeah, you gottafind your next kick, whatever it
is.
Yeah, it's chasing highs allthe time, getting kick.
Uh, so there's a different wayof living and, um, I, I think
that's that's a part where I say, hey, if you want to get after
in life, you know, build thatheart, build that drive, get

(01:09:41):
after it, have the heart andsoul to do those things and do
things with that purpose.
That's that next level.
You'll not only feel so greatfor yourself but you'll be a
beacon for other people who arealso like, oh, wow, look, look
at, look at Brett, look at himgo through this pain.
Like wow, that's so amazing.
Like if they're watching you gothrough that and running for

(01:10:02):
your friend who has cancer, it'slike wow, I know Brett's doing
this.
Like that's that's pretty strong.
Like I think I can feel thatyeah, uh and uh.
That's that's one example.
There's multiple ways where youcan really dive into this
reality that we live in and, nomatter what you believe in, uh,
you can still develop your heartto be something greater,

(01:10:24):
something we all connect with,that emotion that we all
connected with.
Instead of we're talkingappetites, we're chasing
appetites, we make jokes ofappetites.
We we're getting you know very,um, you know, when you hear
comedians, they talk aboutappetites all the time, like
there's sex jokes all the timethere's like pretty much what it
is drinking.
All you know, drink whatever itare like, uh, you know things

(01:10:46):
that are that are naturallyfunny because it's like, okay,
these weird things in reality,but yeah, um, there also can be
like, if you're over in thatarea, it can be over distracting
and less fulfilling, whereas,like hey, like that stuff's
funny, but there's also funnythings in like around the heart
and like messing around there.
There's not enough peoplefocusing it and that, that, that
mindset of hey, like you know,I mean, if we can talk about

(01:11:08):
heart and stuff, it comes todark humor which can be funny to
you.
But you gotta, you gotta bestrong for that.

Brett (01:11:14):
Yeah, my my wife is the queen of dark humor.

Jared (01:11:17):
Okay, great.

Brett (01:11:18):
Um, I will, yeah, it's.
It's pretty funny Like wealways tell people to get it
sign up for the race for myfather-in-law, right, yeah.
And if they say no, she's like,oh, so you love cancer, huh.
And it's just like so good.
Or like I'll, I'll make a jokeand like, yeah, I won't go into
it, but she's got a dark humorruns in the family.

Jared (01:11:39):
It's hard to say dark humor, just like everybody goes
like oh, yeah, I get it.
But yeah, when you go around,the heart it can get there.
It can be light too, you can belight hearted about stuff.
But yeah, the focus in societyis so much around appetites and
in that world, so influenced bythe world, yeah, uh, the world

(01:12:05):
will not give you that, thatheart, that drive, the thing
that gives you joy, like peoplethink of all the time.
Yeah, it is, yeah, it is, I'mgonna go to new york city or
whatever.
I'm gonna go.
I'm gonna go to vegas.
I'm gonna go to vegas.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna try tolike, get the most statusy type
things, uh, the most expensivethings.
I'm gonna experience thesethings and you know, I'm gonna

(01:12:27):
do all these things.
It's like, are you really doingit?
for the reasons that bring youjoy are you doing those things
because those are parts of your,your natural appetite of, of
resources, of of sustainingyourself in the animalistic

(01:12:47):
kingdom type thing like if we'regetting really like in that
little like, uh, you know,secular world, uh type of type
of aspect, and it gets prettynihilistic if you get on that,
that path, uh, but, um, youreally want to, you know,
develop the uh, the heart andthat, to to avoid those things.

(01:13:08):
Like, you wanted to be able tohave a richer life and there's
more to that life thanexperiencing like, oh, like
there's this place in mauithat's got an awesome like hotel
and stuff and I can ridesurfboard.
Is that?
That's?
That's great.
But like, is that better thanhaving a family?
Is it better than havingsomeone who is experiencing

(01:13:29):
something and they're crying onyour shoulder because they trust
you and you're there for them?
Is it better than that?
And there's some things that arevery expensive in life and
leaving your heart behind isextremely expensive, and I know
everyone will recognize thehearts inside themselves.
They just need to get after ita little bit more.

(01:13:49):
Maybe look a little deeper, bea little more introspective,
maybe just practice those basicthings.
I don't want to make it soundso obscure, or so what's it
called?
I forgot the word in CIAia.
Oh my gosh it's like cia.
Yes, it's a word for uh, I thinkit might start with the e.

(01:14:13):
I think it's like somethingthat's just like cloudy and like
you can't see what it is.
But um, yeah, the heart.
There are things that peopleknow, people, what people can
fight for, um, that are verybasic things.
They're simple things.
They're very simple things inlife and once you start feeling
those things, you can.
This is going on way longer thanI thought, so this is great

(01:14:34):
this is super introspective hereand I feel like I'm like a cult
leader, like no, this is good.

Brett (01:14:39):
Like my question was actually going to be, like what
would you suggest people do ifthey want to go on this journey
of, like, developing their heart?
Yeah, you Answering, so it'sperfect.

Jared (01:14:47):
Okay, yeah.
So when you develop your heart,see, and like I've seen this
myself, I've been, I've gone ina way that's like more extreme
to you saying hey, like, okay,like I'm going to be super
skeptical, I'm going to be avery say the word uh and I'm
gonna think like almost like a,like a uh, straight, I don't

(01:15:09):
know, almost robotic in a way,and I've been practicing that
area, logic and a little bitsand stuff and uh, you start to
lose feeling a bit.
And then we go back and startexercising your heart.
You start to feel things againand that's something where
you're like, oh, wow, that's alittle different.
I realize, hey, I can makesomeone smile a little bit in

(01:15:32):
that area, or I can see there'ssomething a little off.
Maybe I just need to say hi, ormaybe I need to myself, maybe I
need to, oh yeah, maybe I justneed to laugh a little bit about
something right now.
You start to feel things alittle more naturally, uh, and
then you'll start to exercise.

(01:15:52):
Oh, like now there's likedifferent areas in life and you
start to feel more things, um,in yourself and others and and
just how life is, and, uh, youcan keep going on the path and
people go down that path andthey're great.
And some people go to existentand stop exit.
Uh, some people go back andforget about it.
Yeah, uh, people struggle withdeveloping their hearts and I, I

(01:16:16):
think it's.
I think it's hard to do becauseyou gotta you kind of have to
be mindful of your heart.
It's hard to be emotional andpassionate about something and
then let it fade away.
Yeah, and it takes a lifetime ofof work yeah, I think what you
mentioned earlier, likediscipline, yeah, like when you
have discipline and dedicateyourself towards developing

(01:16:37):
these things, like, okay, nowyou're championing, like this
light in your life, you'rechampioning this, this area, uh,
and you start building it, youstart pounding it like boom,
boom, boom.
I mean running example, so easyto talk about.
This area is like, okay, likeyou are developing your heart,
you're developing your muscle,you're doing it, um, you're
going and going and going, um,and you know that will take you

(01:16:58):
places and there's differentroads, there's different aspects
.
That's a running, easy analogy.
Um, but it's really justexercising feeling.
Uh, if you don't know what I'mtalking about at all and you're
like, hey, what's the heart?
Uh, what brings you joy?
What brings you joy?
Find those things, practicethem, learn, try to learn from

(01:17:21):
books, learn, learn from thebest people you know.
Yeah, try to feel like you knowthis happy moments, your life
and chase those things.
Uh, it's not like, it's notlike one thing, it's like you
know you everyone's feel feltthese things in their lives,
where they, hey, like I canstart pulling these things.
Okay, now I learned things.
Like for me, like, oh, jared'stalking about this.

(01:17:41):
He must think he's an expert atthis.
No, I'm not like.
I'm I'm not like joyful like 247 I'm not, I'm not, I'm not,
I'm not.

Brett (01:17:49):
Uh, again, it goes back to the human experience.
Like there's gonna be ups anddowns in everyone's life,
doesn't matter how good you are.
Like life is gonna test you yesand for me it's like religion
and my faith has been a, likeit's rooted me in those times,
Like when I do struggle and I gothrough hard times, it's given

(01:18:10):
me something to hope for and toum recognize that like with
Christianity specifically, thatlike Christ has felt this before
.
He knows what I'm going throughand because I can rely on him
to help me get through it.
Because, yeah, sometimes it'shard, Like life is not going to
be joyful all the time, Like Iwas saying, like my wife is gone

(01:18:32):
, Like it's kind of hard to havejoy when, like, my best part of
my day is not here, you know,and it's tough.
But I think in those momentslike that's when you have to
rely on the things that you'velearned and exercise them, Like
trust that they work and keepmoving forward.

Jared (01:18:51):
Yeah, we're going pretty long.
I do have one point that wouldbe funny to bring up.
Let's hear it.
We've got some time, we've gotsome time.
All right, yeah, life is, thisis super meta.
We're going to get super metahere.

Brett (01:19:07):
I'm continuing my my my cult, my cult, uh sermon I was
kidding yeah, we'll have to getyou a robe after this.
Just kidding.

Jared (01:19:15):
No, no, no, I like my t-shirts and my two pairs of
pants I wear every day.
Uh, I'm the same, uh, um.
One area that I love to bringup that's super fascinating and
it's just kind of a fun mentalexercise is thinking of the
start of life.
Like we're sitting here withmicrophones, you know, people

(01:19:38):
are listening on spotify orwhatever youtube.
I don't know.
I don't know where, um, andhow's this all happening, and
you think like, okay, well,let's pull it back, let's go all
the way to, like, you know,maybe Adam and Eve.
If you're Christian, yeah, oris Muslim, you believe in Adam
and Eve as well.
Or, okay, what about furtherthan that?

(01:20:00):
There's like dinosaurs andstuff.
Yeah, let's go back further.
You know, maybe there's likethese little bacterias and stuff
, some amoebas, amoebas, yeah.
And then you go back in further.
It's like, okay, well, what wasthere?
A rock like?

Brett (01:20:14):
yeah yeah matter.

Jared (01:20:15):
And then the big bang, like the big bang I mean the sun
, like where did this come from?
Like where did everything comefrom right?
Like if I put a piece of sandin the microwave for like a
million years, is that gonnamake a human?

Brett (01:20:31):
like maybe, who knows, yeah, yeah, it's that would be
amazing if that's how we learnit all happened is god's just
like I'm gonna put this piece ofsand in this microwave and then
boom the universe.

Jared (01:20:42):
That was the big bang yeah, or if I have two cars
going like like speed of lightagainst each other, is that
going to make a human?
You know it's like.
Yeah, you know, the creation,creation of dna, like that is
that seems very godly, in myopinion.
Um, life, the, the wholecreation of life, uh seems like
it's created by god.
Uh, how things are set up, howwe're even talking to each other

(01:21:03):
about this.
Yeah, like if, if god didn'texist, like well, like, why does
everything exist?
Yeah, yeah, 100, uh and I thinkthat's.

Brett (01:21:15):
There's a lot of science to back it which I believe in.
But for me, the more I learnabout science, I'm like there
has to be a hand behind it.
Yeah, and so I don't know,every time I I learned about,
like evolution and learningabout the stars, like when Neil
deGrasse Tyson was talking ataccelerate, like I was like it's
just just more evidence for me,like, and I don't know if it's
because of the things that Ibelieve, or like my mindset, um,

(01:21:37):
or even if I'm looking at itwrong, like I think it's
important to, to questionyourself at times, but um, it's
just to me it's, it's very clearthat there's um, a hand behind
it.
And um, our prophet, russell MNelson I butchered that he uh
gave a quote one time where hetalked about the human body, or
a talk where he talked about thehuman body, um, and he says you

(01:22:01):
know, our eyes areauto-focusing lenses, our hearts
, you know, pump oxygen throughour bodies at all times and our
lungs fill our blood with oxygen.
And like he talked about allthe just minute mechanics of the
human body, and like the brainis a computer, and like all
these different things, and um,for me I'm like that might've

(01:22:23):
happened through putting a pieceof sand in the microwave and
seeing where it would go.
But I don't think so.
I don't believe that Personally, I don't believe that.
I think God designed it toallow us to live life to the
fullest and experience mortality, and he understood what needed
to be done to make that happen.

(01:22:44):
So I think it's interesting.
Um, he understood what neededto be done to make that happen.
So I don't know.
I think it's interesting.
And you brought up the point of, like you know, trying to look
at your viewpoints fromdifferent angles, and I think
that's really important to do.
I think you have to do that, um, because, one, I believe it
strengthens your own beliefs ifyou come to the conclusion that,
after looking at it fromdifferent angles, that it is
true.
And then, two, um just helpsyou continue living on those

(01:23:07):
principles, because if they aretrue, why not live them?
So I don't know Just where mythoughts were when you went
there, but yeah, it's super.
I like that exercise though.
That's cool, it is cool.

Jared (01:23:17):
Yeah, yeah it's.
I think it's a pretty strongargument for that right now of
how life started.

Brett (01:23:27):
I heard this quote.
Sorry to cut you off, but Iheard this quote where it said
you know, religion has manymiracles, but science only asks
you to believe in one, and it'sthe Big Bang.
But it's like there's miraclesall around and we don't know how
the Big Bang happened.
So who's to say that God wasn'tthe one that initiated it?

Jared (01:23:50):
yeah, I think it's interesting, but yeah, yeah, uh,
yeah, I think it's.
I think it's a pretty goodstretch.
The big thing, like all science, it's pretty crazy in my
opinion.
But like people can try to liketie their head around that and
say, yeah, we came from amoebasand stuff and DNA, and like
evolution happened Super hard toprove, you can't.

(01:24:10):
That's why, yeah, at leastright now you can't.

Brett (01:24:13):
I mean, I think evolution probably played a role, but
like I think at the time, likemaybe that's how God built us as
humans, I don't know.

Jared (01:24:21):
Yeah, evolution.
you can look at it and say, hey,like there's aspects of that
that did exist but, um, all theway from amoeba is like, yeah,
it's uh, and before that, thecreation of everything.
It's not something that'sscientifically proven, it's not
something that's likescientifically strongly uh
believed in either.
Uh, it's mostly unknown.

(01:24:42):
Um, but what I want to sayaround this whole thought
exercise that's kind of fun and,you know, really super meta is,
um, the uh aspect of hey, like,if there is a purpose behind
everything, if there is a hand,there's something created
everything, there's joy to befound in all aspects of life.

(01:25:04):
Um, you know, there's a purposefor us, maybe talking right now
.
Uh, maybe there's a purpose forsomeone listening, uh, in this
moment.
Uh, maybe there's uh a purposefor someone to like experience
whatever's in their fridge.
I have no idea.
Uh so, yeah, you never know.
So there's, yeah, there'sdefinitely life in so many
different things and you canlearn about plants and animals

(01:25:27):
and stuff and just things thathey, things are created a
certain way and what pieces ofnature are aspects of God, and
it's a different lens.
This is a whole different topic.
I don't even know why I'm goingso deep in this area.

Brett (01:25:42):
This is great.

Jared (01:25:42):
No, it's awesome, it's super meta.
But, yeah, you can go in thatarea um and and learn about,
learn about things, life,there's a lot of life around um,
in this life.
Obviously it's kind of superbasic for me to say that, but,
um, yeah, you can definitelyjust uh, find, find happiness

(01:26:04):
and living um, and so manydifferent aspects.
Uh, one of my favorite booksactually is unbroken.
Have you read?

Brett (01:26:14):
that, or I haven't read it, but I I know the story.
I don't think I've even seenthe movie, though, but it's the.
Yeah, if you want to tell alittle synopsis real quick okay,
yeah, so really quick.

Jared (01:26:25):
This is a guy who was a airplane pilot.
I think it's for about, not mypilot, I think it's a.
He was part of airplane squad.
I don't remember what he was,maybe it was a pilot he was part
of like a loading crew for anairplane that that airplane
crashed in hawaii.
He became a pow.
Um, I think that's why this Iread this book like when it

(01:26:45):
first came out, like a year whenit came out.
It's been a while.
He became a POW in Japan andthey tease him.
They were brutal and they madehim run because he was also like
an Olympian around and likeraised the guards and stuff and
they just were so mean.

(01:27:06):
But uh, he was able to findhappiness and I also love the.
There's a couple other booksabout the holocaust, that man's
search for meaning to you it's agreat one, very similar to the
frankl yeah, similar, similarflavor, uh, different though, uh
, but finding the humanity andthe purpose of living and, uh,

(01:27:28):
in such a tough circumstancewhere you're being belittled and
bullied and people aresuffering and dying around you,
uh, to find, hey, like, wow,like I may be changing something
or changing myself, changingsomebody else, uh, uh, the guard
or the person.
Yeah, he actually does, um,make men's with a guard, which

(01:27:50):
is really interesting.
Um, really beautiful story.
So it's non-fiction super evil.
Um, yeah, in any circumstance,there's always more life to be
had and if you're facing such ahard circumstance, you can fight
that and there's a differentway, different approach where
you can overcome it.
You know, even if it's as low,as, like, you know, I want to

(01:28:13):
like do drugs.
You know that's super common,like example, example.
It's your common example.
I'm not saying everyone doesdrugs, don't do drugs, don't do
drugs.
It's a way to fight that.
If you're, if you're inisolation and you feel like, hey
, like I, I feel like there's nomeaning, you can find meaning.
Uh, if you're feeling like hey,like I am not good in my career

(01:28:39):
, there's ways to learn.
Yeah, I feel like, hey, I'm tooslow, I'm too fat, whatever,
like in your example, I guessfat brat yeah.
Fat brat.
It's like you can fight, thatyou can be hard, or, if you're
like dying, you can still maybemake someone smile, leave a note
behind, make something strongerin those dire circumstances,

(01:29:02):
like there's always ways whereyou can look at darkness and
there's a way of the reverse oflight.

Brett (01:29:09):
Yeah, yeah that's beautiful man, that's.
Uh, yeah, it's got me thinkinga lot about my own beliefs and
stuff.
So I think, yeah, I mean reallyappreciate all the time that
you you've taken to go into thisoutline, because I I think it
really helped the conversationand helped me understand, like
perspective from differentreligions and how, at the end of

(01:29:31):
the day, it's just supposed to,you know, help build and and
develop your, your passions andfind what you're, what makes you
happy and, um, yeah, I mean,everyone's gonna have different
lives to live but, like you said, I think in any circumstance
it's just perspective, liketrying to understand what, how
you can make the most ofsomething, how you can maybe

(01:29:51):
laugh a little bit, like yousaid, or make someone smile and
just do something small toimpact someone else's day or,
you know, make you have havegood feelings or whatever that
looks like.
But, yeah, this has beenawesome man, this has been a
really good one.
It was one of my favorites,just because it's been so
interesting and and fascinatingto learn these things.

Jared (01:30:11):
So I really appreciate it yeah, well, thanks for having
me on.
Uh, if you didn't ask me aboutthis and I, I don't know if I'd
ever go on a podcast and talkabout this stuff, so dude, it's
great.

Brett (01:30:20):
I mean, yeah, I think you should start a youtube channel
honestly you gotta do somethingbecause people would listen.
I think it's great I don't know.

Jared (01:30:27):
Hopefully I'm not too boring to everyone listening to
this it'll find.

Brett (01:30:30):
The audience I mean, that's that's what I've learned
is like, you know, there's somepeople who come on, they talk
about marathon running and somepeople just tune out, but then,
you know, talking about faithand things that might be
someone's someone's thing, likethat might be what they're
interested in.
Um, that's why I think it'simportant to have different
people on to share theirperspectives and share what
they're getting after.
And, um, yeah, you definitelyare like by learning all these

(01:30:52):
things and like that's whatgetting after it is is, you know
, trying to develop yourself andlearning and growing and, yeah,
sharing that with other people.
And I really appreciate thatyou came on and shared some of
this stuff with with my audience, because there's always
something to benefit from it.
I think we can all learn fromthese religions and take pieces
from them, even if you're notreligious, and just apply them
to your life to be a betterhuman.

(01:31:13):
It's been awesome man.

Jared (01:31:16):
Thanks for having me, man , it's been good.

Brett (01:31:18):
Well, there we go.
You always have an invite tocome back.
I think this was great, awesomeyeah.

Jared (01:31:23):
First podcast you killed it.
First podcast I'm a star of thecult, guys.
No, I'm just kidding.
You're going to hear first guys.

Brett (01:31:30):
But yeah, everyone else, I really appreciate you for
tuning in today and, as always,keep getting after it.

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134 - Jared Lee - Faith, Philosophy, and Forming Your Own Code

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}134 - Jared Lee - Faith, Philosophy, and Forming Your Own Code