135 - Brynli Walker - Movement is Medicine - Getting After It

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
all right on, it's rolling, we're live, so we can
jump into it anytime.
Yeah, but, brittany, thanks forcoming on, of course I'm
excited.
This is uh kind of fun becauseyou're spencer's wife and now
we're having, you know, fullcircle, both you guys on and
both getting after it in manyways, and I'm pumped to hear

(00:20):
what you have to say.
So you're in physical therapyand you, you studied medicine,
right, or what did you say?
Physical therapy?

Speaker 2 (00:32):
physical therapy.
So it's kind of like thephysical side of medicine.
So you use movement as medicine.
We still have to know somebasic things about medicine, but
not as in depthdepth as spencergets, luckily.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
So yeah, that's fair.
Spencer was telling me somethings.
I'm like man, that's yeah it'sintense, yeah, but um, yeah, I
mean, have you always been intofitness?
Like how, how did this?

Speaker 2 (00:54):
yeah, so my my mom's a physical therapist and went to
the?
U as well and had me when shewas in school, so kind of a full
circle, because I did that withchristian too, yeah, um, but
then she started working out, sokind of a full circle, cause I
did that with Christian too, um,but then she started working
out and kind of managing aCrossFit gym when I was like 12
or 13.
Oh, wow.
And so I would come with hersometimes and do little fun

(01:16):
workouts, um.
But then when I was junior highhigh school age, I was a
swimmer and I realized that if Icould train at the gym it
helped my swimming a lot, so Istarted getting more and more
into it.
Then um started helping coachat the gym a little bit with my
mom and just like discoveredthat I liked the same type of

(01:36):
thing.
I liked that people could getbetter at things by just moving,
um, and I liked that.
I just felt better, like I.
It wasn't as much about what Ilooked like or, um, that aspect
of it, I just liked that I couldgo out and swim a long distance
or run a couple miles or dowhatever I wanted to do and feel

(01:57):
good.
So yeah and then physicaltherapy.
I just I kind of always knewthat's what I want to do,
watching my mom.
She got to work in hospitals atthe gym in all sorts of
different environments and Ilike that you can do that kind
of anywhere and it's flexible.
You can still be a mom and dowhat you want to do.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
I think that is cool and yeah, I mean, I always tell
my mom you just met her upstairs, but she always will tell me
like oh man, my hips are tight.
And I always tell my mom youjust met her upstairs, but she
always like will tell me like ohman, my hips are tight.
And I'm like well, mom, haveyou been walking or anything?
Like that and I always tell herlike hey, motion is lotion.
So I'm glad to hear that that'sactually true.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
Yeah, no, we use that all the time.
Yeah it's, the movement ismedicine, motion is lotion.
I just think it's cool that,like drugs and surgery and all
that stuff have its place, butthere's a lot of things that
just exercising and moving anddoing things in a specific way,
you can get better and you caneliminate pain, you can improve

(02:54):
your function, and I just thinkthat's so cool because it's
something like you need someoneto teach you and show you how to
do it, but it's something youcan do for yourself.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah.
So how do you see it?
And, like at the beginningstages, was it mainly staying at
the gym and watching people umand then trying it out yourself,
or did you have a coach kind ofhelping you along in the
beginning, like when you were,you know, 12, 14 or whatever
that was?

Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, so I I I mean my mom was coaching, so I would
do classes with her.
Um, I also, as I got interestedin physical therapy, I'd shadow
her and other other people,other therapists around our
community and different settings, um, so I kind of got to see
like there's there's somedifferences between coaching and
therapy, but there's a lot ofcrossover, um, and I kind of

(03:39):
learned to love that.
Like you could learn to coachsomebody in the gym setting and
those same kind ofcharacteristics carried into
when you're working with peoplein a hospital.
You're still learning how tocue movement, how to correct
their form or technique, yeah,um, but then with the therapy
you have to get a little morespecific with like things you're
looking for, whereas a coachyou're kind of staying in the
more general realm.

(04:00):
So that's true, yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yeah, cause I, um, I've coached a few people with
running um, and that's very like.
You just help them stick withthe plan, um, you show them how
to do certain things and thenhope that they're doing it right
.
Um, I'm also not a certifiedcoach, so, like, it probably
wasn't the best, but, um, it'snot as hard as like with what

(04:22):
you're talking about making surepeople are doing the right
thing, making sure their form iscorrect, and, um, one thing
about physical therapy is a lotof it is aimed to help with
injuries, um, and I love thatbecause, um, when I was in high
school, I played volleyball foreight years and my senior year I

(04:43):
actually had to stop because Ihad a.
This is a crazy story, but, um,I had pain in my shoulder and
unbearable, to the point to likeI couldn't lift up my arm, and
in volleyball you know it's alot of overhead swinging.
And, um, we started going tolike doctors and we're like, hey
, well, what's going on?
And they checked the an x-rayand it didn't really look too

(05:04):
bad.
There was like a spot that theywere worried about on the joint
, like the ball joint, and, um,what they were saying was like,
oh well, it doesn't look badLike.
Let's get an MRI and see what'sgoing on, cause they thought I
had a labral tear.
Um and that's kind of what theywere aiming for, or like might
have been a rotator cuff thing.
They didn't really have a gooddiagnosis at the time because it

(05:29):
was hard to see Just with thex-ray.
Yeah, once I got the MRI back,what they noticed was there was
a hole in the actual bone.
Oh wow, the way that theyexplained it.
I went to go see a sportsorthopedic surgeon.
He's like we see this a lotwith pitchers in baseball or
anyone who's doing that overheadmotion a lot, but the sad thing

(05:51):
was that they were like you'regoing to need a shoulder
replacement.
And I was 17 at the time, yeah,and I'm like I don't want to
get a shoulder replacement.
I'm 17 years old.
That's insane.
And they were saying, yeah, likeyou won't be able to lift 10
pounds over your head after this, and I was like this sounds
horrible, like what the?
heck, there has to be adifferent way.

(06:13):
And then, luckily, we went togo talk to a doctor who was like
he helped the diamondbacks andthe sons and he was like a real
sports doctor and he's like,honestly, that might be the case
where we might have to go inand do a surgery.
And the three other doctors wemet prior to were like you're
going to need it, Um, but thisguy was like why don't we try

(06:34):
physical therapy?
Why don't?
we try other things in um, likeacupuncture, and so I was like,
yeah, let's try that.
And so I did it for about threemonths, where I would go in for
physical therapy three days aweek.
It was a lot.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yeah, that's a lot.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
But I couldn't train and so it felt like a lot of
time was up in my scheduleanyway, because Spencer may have
told you about volleyball, butthey were like four-hour
practices and that kind of stuffit was a long time.
So I actually had a lot of timeto go and do that, which I'm
glad I did, and then would haveacupuncture once a week and
three months down the road, Um,we went and got another MRI and

(07:10):
that same doctor who told me todo the therapy he's like this is
unbelievable, but it's gone.
Wow Like yeah.
And they were worried about thecartilage mostly.

Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
Cause that doesn't grow back Right Like typically
cartilage is more tricky.
Yeah, um, but like physicaltherapy saved my shoulder, yeah,
cause otherwise, like I wouldhave listened to the doctors and
been like, okay, well let's getit done.
I guess, um, and I'm so glad Ididn't.
Um, and I've heard very similarstories to mine from other

(07:41):
people who have gone in and justtaken time to spend it with a
therapist and and work throughthese issues together and
hopefully heal the issue.
Um, but it's a scary thingCause, like, like you said,
there's a time and place for forsurgery and drugs and medicine
and that kind of thing.
But, um, yeah, like physicaltherapy is an avenue I don't

(08:03):
think a lot of people check outfirst.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
Yeah, I think part of it's that like surgery is just
a quicker, it seems like aquicker option because it's just
you go in right away, you do it.
I think.
What a lot of people don'trealize, though, is how long the
recovery can be after surgeryand how, sometimes, after
surgery, you might not ever getthe same function again.
Yeah, um, but I think a lot ofpeople now it's becoming more

(08:27):
and more common to go withconservative treatment first,
which is awesome because,especially when you're young and
healthy, like you were, youhave the potential to maybe
recover and rehab some of thosethings and not need such an
extensive procedure.
Obviously, if you had been like75 years, old.
They might've just told you tojust go for the surgery right

(08:49):
away, cause at that age you'renot, you're not healing as
quickly.
There's a lot of processes thatslow down, so you might not
have had as good of a prognosisdoing it that way.
But for someone that's youngand healthy, especially if
you're not risking it getting alot more worse over time,
there's really no reason not totry conservative treatment first
, and then, if it doesn't work,you can still do the same

(09:10):
surgery, but at least you gavegave it a chance.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah, and I think it's.
I don't know the way that itshould be, but um, what does
that typically look like?
Cause, there, there has to be alot of like.
Evaluation of the person right.
And like understanding whatthey're feeling.
And, um, I'm sure you know I,when I sat down with the
physical therapist it was likeokay, well, what's your pain?
And they did a lot of tests,like pushing on my wrist and

(09:34):
stuff like that.
So, um, like what, what doesthat look like with someone
comes in with you know how Ihave a knee issue, or or that
kind of thing.
Like how do you start treatingthat?

Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah.
So kind of the cool thing Ilike too about physical therapy
is you get usually you get agood amount of time with the
patient.
It's kind of different thansome doctors where they only get
5 to 15 minutes with theirpatients and then their
assistant or some other tech isdoing the majority of the visit.
A lot of places I've worked asthe physical therapist you

(10:06):
actually get like 45 minutes toan hour with that person,
especially on the first visit.
You kind of get an idea of thesituation.
We call it like taking a history, so you can ask questions about
how long have you had this pain, what makes it worse, what
makes it better, how does itchange throughout the day, and
that.
That all seems kind of like notas important as the physical

(10:28):
assessment, but a lot of times Ican get majority of my
information just from whatsomeone tells me before I even
put hands on them, just becausecertain pains and certain issues
will behave a certain way.
So if you can get a picture ofhow it changes throughout the
course of the day and how it'sprogressed over time, you can
start to like cross off somethings that, okay, it's probably

(10:49):
not this, because it's notacting that way You're still
going to double check with yourphysical exam but majority of
the time, by the time peoplehave finished telling me kind of
their story, I get a good ideaof what I think is going on.
And then you use the physicalassessment to kind of rule, rule
in and rule out things.
So we learn like special teststhat you can do for certain
things that will show you, likelike for an ACL for example,

(11:13):
there's a test called Lockman'sthat kind of shows you if
there's laxity in that ligamentor if it's really loose and that
will tell you that theyprobably have something going on
with their ACL Interesting andthat will tell you that they?
probably have something going onwith their ACL Interesting.
But with ACL that's just a goodexample.
There's also a lot of thosesubjective things like you'll
get immediate swelling.
You'll have this type ofmechanism where you twisted when

(11:36):
you landed or you got hit froma certain angle.
So it's just kind of learningwhat are common characteristics
of injuries and then knowingkind of how to rule those in and
out.
And then usually, at least inmy initial sessions and the CIs
in school that I worked withthey always like to start trying

(11:56):
treatments in that firstsession.
Really, Because, they wantedtheir patients to walk away
feeling better than when theygot there.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
The eval is kind of known as like this is going to
be a painful appointment becausewe have to do all these tests
and figure out what's wrong.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
I do remember that that was not fun.
Yeah, it often is, but theymost of my mentors still wanted
to get at least some treatmentin by the time that was over,
just so that the patient walkedaway feeling like, okay, this is
going to help me, it's not justgoing to make my pain worse, um
.
So a lot of times you'll trialsome treatments, see if you can
figure out something that mightbe helping it get better, and

(12:31):
then you you give them a homeexercise program to start
working on.
Um, and that's really where therecovery happens, cause you
meet with the physical therapistthose three days a week, but
you were probably doing stuff athome all, yeah, all the time.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
All the time.
Like those wind or the wall,wiper things with the shoulder
like you get a little towel.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
And that's where it really, like, makes the
difference.
If you only did that stuff foran hour three times a week, you
might see some difference, andsome patients still do.
But the patients that do thebest are the ones that you could
tell they were doing theirstuff at home.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
And they were bought in and they're like this is it?
This is my reality.
I got to get it done, Yep.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
So that's kind of the process and then from there you
just follow up as they getbetter.
You just progress theirexercises, make it challenging.
You kind of want to find thissweet spot of I want to make it
hard enough where it's achallenge, but not so hard that
they're getting discouraged.
And if you keep people in thatarea and then just progress them
from there, eventually they getback to doing most of the

(13:28):
things they want to do.
Sometimes you can't doeverything if people have really
severe injuries, but for themost part a lot of people make
good recoveries yeah that'sawesome.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
Have you seen a pretty cool recovery story where
someone came in with an injury?
They avoided surgery, or maybenot.
Maybe they had surgery and gotback to what they were doing.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
Yeah, so I've worked in some different settings Um
the.
The business I have, that's atthe gym, is more we've called
like outpatient orthopedic.
So it's more like your typicalshoulder, knee pain, back pain,
injuries.
But I've also worked in ahospital where you do more
inpatient rehab they call it so.
Some of those people have hadlike strokes, traumatic brain

(14:08):
injuries um major car crashes oraccidents.
So when you ask that, my mindautomatically jumps more to
those, because those are justlike the people that were in a
coma with a ventilator and thenthey walk out of there on their
last day and that's alwaysreally cool to see, um.
But of course, in the otherrealm realm there's a lot of

(14:28):
people I've seen that came in 10out of 10 pain in their knee or
their shoulder, could barelylift their arm, thought they
would never get to do what theylike to do again, and it takes
time and there were sometimessetbacks and things.
But I've definitely seen peoplewhere they can come all the way
back and they can get back torunning marathons, they can get

(14:48):
back to lifting heavy weights,they can get back to all the
things that they wanted to do,and I think that people I feel
like it's most meaningful fortend to be older because, as you
get older, your physicalfunction dictates a lot of your
independence, so it's alwaysrewarding to see someone who
comes in in like a wheelchair.

(15:09):
Even in the outpatient world Ihad some patients that had to
come in in a wheelchair, but bythe time they left therapy they
were walking without a cane,without anything, and for them
that was like I can play with mygrandkids again, I can garden,
I can do stuff that's meaningfuland not just spend the rest of
my life in a nursing home.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
Yeah, that's that.
That is amazing and like what'swhat's happening there Cause
like if they're coming in awheelchair and then you know
able to walk out, is it adecrease in swelling or what is
that?

Speaker 2 (15:37):
I mean, that's probably part of it.
It depends on what theircondition was.
Um, a lot of people it's justbeing more active and getting
their body to move more.
Um, the movement is medicinething is truer.
The older you get as well,cause, like I said, a lot of
those processes that normallywork really well when we're
young start slowing down as weage.

(15:57):
Um, you don't have as much, uh,muscle strength anymore.
Your strength starts decliningkind of proportionally to your
age.
You don't heal as quickly.
Your skin is more fragile, soif you get a cut it's not going
to close up as quickly.
That's why older people tend toget wounds and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (16:18):
I always have band-aids.

Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah, that impacts your function a lot.
So just all of those processesstart to slow down.
But when you can move you bringblood flow to areas, you use
those muscles, you gain strengthin those areas and that helps
kind of stall that process alittle bit.
So a lot of people too.
I think a huge risk for olderpeople is falls um and balance

(16:40):
issues.
So just getting more confidentin their movement and feeling
like they're more steady andjust even just the repetition of
it A lot of times it can, justit can be as much of a mental
thing as a physical thing.
So being able to know this ishow I get in and out of a chair,
and I've done it a hundredtimes.
Cause I do it every day.
That way they just don't loseit and keep it up.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
So yeah, I mean, I know there's.
There's a lot of informationcoming out now of how things
like strength training a higherprotein diet like can help
alleviate some of those thosemuscle losses and that kind of
thing, or help um keep thatmuscle on longer.
Um, is that like?
Have you seen that before?
Have you studied it a littlebit?

Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah, spencer, and I read a book, actually by Peter
Atiyah.

Speaker 1 (17:29):
He's a doctor that does a lot of longevity Um isn't
his book called longevity?

Speaker 2 (17:34):
Yeah, it's called I think it's called outlive, but
like the caption longevity, butum, he explained it really like
I really loved the way he talkedabout it.
He kind of explained that forhis patients.
He'd ask them, like what theirgoals are and if they're, and
he'd ask them, like what's yourgoal in 30 years?
like where do you want to bewhen you're 90?
Um, and a lot of people wouldsay like I want to be able to

(17:57):
walk around the grocery store, Iwant to be able to put my
suitcase in the overhead bin onan airplane so I can still
travel.
And so what he would do is hewould say, okay, if you need to
be able to lift a 20 poundsuitcase over your head when
you're 85, and we know thatafter the age of 40, every
decade you're going to lose thispercentage of strength He'd do

(18:20):
the math and say, okay, ifthat's what you need to do when
you're 85, and even with proteinand all that stuff, you're
still going to lose somestrength by that point.
This is what you need to doright now when you're 50.
And a lot of times it was.
If you need to be able to lift20 pounds at 85, you probably
need to be able to lift closerto 70 pounds at 50.

(18:40):
And so that would motivatepeople to see like it's not just
doing what you want to be ableto do right now, but it's even
it's doing even more, so that asthat steadily declines which
you can do everything you wantto prevent it you're still going
to have a little bit of adecline, but if you can start
higher up on the hill, you'regoing to decline more slowly.

(19:02):
So I think that's one of thebiggest things people need to
know about, like longevity andpresenting that decline is it's
not just lifting the airplanebag right now.
You need to be lifting even morethan that right now.
That's why people need to likedeadlift and squat, and it's not
just about if you want to be abodybuilder or Olympic weight

(19:23):
lifter it's if you want to bethat way when you're 90.

Speaker 1 (19:27):
Functional.
These are very functionalmovements.
I've actually heardcontradicting things on
deadlifts and I don't know whatto believe anymore.
What's your take on deadlifts?

Speaker 2 (19:37):
I like deadlifts.

Speaker 1 (19:38):
Really yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
So most of my patients, even the really old
little ladies with back pain, Iwill have them deadlift.
We'll do some sort of modifiedversion of it, um, but they'll.
They'll deadlift.
Uh, just because I thinkthere's a big.
There's a big misconceptionthat if you have back pain, you
should not move your back at alland that any type of back pain

(20:00):
means that you did something toa disc or a vertebrae.
Back pain is actually one ofthe things when we learn in
school that has the most feararound it with patients.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
I mean, it's debilitating.
Yeah, my dad has had it for along time.
He's finally getting over it,but he's had compacted discs.
Yeah, it's thrown him out a fewtimes.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
And it can be a real, real problem for some people.
But there's also a lot ofstatistics um that when people
go in and get an MRI it's goingto show some arthritis or some
they'll call it like jointdegeneration in your spine.
And when people hear that theythink, oh my gosh, I like my

(20:43):
spine's shot.
But if you would x-ray or mri,like most of the adults in our
country, most people would showthe same things because that's
just a natural part of the agingprocess.
But most of those people don'thave back pain, so part of it is
cutting the tie between imagingdoesn't always equal pain.

(21:03):
Um, there can be other reasonsand you can have the bad images
and not have pain and stillfunction well.
So deadlifts for me, I thinkit's you need to strengthen
those muscles in the back.
Um, and a lot of times whenpeople have back back pain
there's different categories,but a very common one we call

(21:24):
movement coordination deficit,where it's not that you're
necessarily weak, but yourmuscles that should be
supporting your spine whenyou're lifting or bending or
twisting.
They're not turning on orfiring, they're kind of taking a
vacation.
Um, and a lot of times, if wecan retrain people on how to
activate those muscles as theygo through movements like a

(21:45):
deadlift.
If they'll do that, they'llhave a lot less pain.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
Yeah, so it's like common injuries in deadlifts.
It's just like what are themost common ones?
Are people like lifting withtheir backs more than their legs
, or like yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
so my favorite cue for deadlifts is you should feel
like you're pushing the flooraway with your feet and that
anytime I tell that to someone,you almost always see them
immediately use their legs waymore than their back.
Whereas before they're kind ofcurling the bar up with their
back.
That was me in college.
And it's hard because like noone teaches you this in school

(22:21):
or anything and people juststart going to the gym in
college and they see peopledoing it so they try to mimic it
.
Um, but it really it's kind oflike in volleyball.
Actually I didn't play highschool volleyball but I remember
in volleyball when they wouldtalk about, like the pass yeah
instead of swinging your arms,you're supposed to like use your
legs like an elevator yeahthat's kind of the same thing

(22:42):
with the deadlift.
Your, your back is not reallythe part doing the lifting, it's
supporting the load and youshould be using your back for a
deadlift, but the legs are thebig movers in that movement and,
like I know, it's like a arunner.

Speaker 1 (22:57):
There's not a lot of runners who do deadlifts, but I
do because I know it's like,it's like all the the hamstrings
, the glutes, the likeeverything that you need in
running.
Um, so yeah, I don't know, Ithink it's like it's like all
the the hamstrings, the glutes,the like everything that you
need in running.
Um so yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
I think it's a an interesting one, but I've heard
so many people say like oh,don't do them, like it'll throw
out your back and um I think, ifyou are worried about doing
them because you're not sure ifyour form's good, I the biggest
thing I tell people is juststart on the lighter side really
focus on form.
Um, and if you're really unsure,get a coach or a trainer or a

(23:29):
friend that you know knows howto do it well and have them help
you, um.
But I think the mistake peoplemake is they don't know if their
form's good and they try tolift like 300 pounds and that's
when you hurt your back.

Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yeah, that was for sure Me and my brother.
We're like how heavy can we goon?

Speaker 2 (23:45):
this deadlift.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
I think we got up to like 405, but he has a video of
it somewhere and it's like myback is just arched.
It's like oh, that is not good.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
And it's hard because it seems safer than like a
squat or an overhead lift,because you're like, if I can't
do this, I'm just dropping it,going to land on anything.
But at the same time it's stillis a lift where you need to be
careful with the angle of yourspine and all that stuff.
So I think people justsometimes go a little overboard
without making sure they havethe right technique.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah, I think that's a huge one too is like, if
you're worried about it, just golighter.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
Like um.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
I think you know Jocko Willink is Spencer
probably mentioned him before.
But he always says like ego hasno place in leadership and it
has no place in the gym.
Yeah, and it's like, yeah, likethere might be people around
you who are, you know, benchpressing um, you know way more
than you.
Like, I was at the gym theother day and this kid I don't

(24:38):
want to call him out, but he wasway lighter than I was- he was
a skinny guy and he was doingtwo plates Like it was nothing
and I was like how, how is this?
guy doing it, um, but he had noleg muscles, so that's my only,
you know good job there.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
Well, and that's the thing.
If you're only doing stuff inthe gym that makes you feel like
you're unstoppable, then you'reprobably not doing it right.
You should.
You should kind of get humbledwhen you go to the gym, but kind
of, like I talked about before,it's like that sweet spot of
challenge versus success youdon't want to be so humbled that
you're like discouraged and notdoing anything.
But um, like spencer would tellyou, every time he goes he tries

(25:14):
to do something that's just alittle bit harder than what he
can do otherwise.
He feels like he didn't doenough, even if he killed the
workout or something.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
I mean that's great advice.
Great advice too, yeah, yeah,it really is humbling.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
Sometimes it's uh, you try and go out and you're
like I'm feeling good today, andthen it's like, nope, nevermind
.
Yeah, this is.
I'm a lot weaker than I thoughtit was, um, but I did want to
ask you and I asked you beforeum.
We recorded this just about,like, if someone feels like they
have an injury, kind of what,the protocol for that is like
how much time to take off beforeseeing you know a physical

(25:48):
therapist or even a doctor atthat point, um, what do you
advise on that?

Speaker 2 (25:53):
I mean, it definitely depends on the injury and the
extent of it.
I think for most things, ifit's just like I woke up one
morning and I have this pain andit gets worse with this but
better with this, um, there's acouple of things you can do.
I, I would say, most of thetime you kind of want to play
that game of try to decreasesome of the activity you've been

(26:13):
doing.
If you just started doingsomething that you haven't been
doing regularly, and you've beendoing it a lot, that's kind of
a key sign of overuse.
So dialing that back and seeingif it gets better, um.
What you don't want to do,though, is you don't want to
just go on bedrest either.
That that won't usually work.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
What's the danger there?

Speaker 2 (26:32):
Just that, um, that movement is medicine key.
If you, if you just becomecompletely sedentary and you
don't get any movement, yourbody's not going to recover
either, because movement justbrings blood flow to those areas
, it flushes out toxins, itbrings in nutrients, um, and
your body isn't meant to justsit around, especially when it's
injured.
You still need to be moving.

(26:53):
There is a place.
I mean, if you cut your leg inhalf, obviously you're going to
have to take a rest day, but umthere's there's still a
difference between like, okay,take a day off the gym but still
be active, still go on walks,Don't just sit on the couch all
day.
Um, most people I talked tothat would come in and say like,
oh, I tried to just take offtwo weeks and I just still don't

(27:14):
feel great.
Sometimes they'd even feelworse just because they get all
stiff.
You're not moving as much andthat can make it worse.
So I think you kind of play agame of dialing back some things
, seeing if that helps, if itpersists and especially if maybe
it gets better, but then assoon as you try to ramp up again
, it comes right back and you'reyou're in that spot.

(27:37):
I would just tell somebody to gosee a physical therapist at
that point.
Um, utah is a cool state causeyou don't have to have a
referral to see a physicaltherapist, you can just have
direct access.
So you can just make anappointment with anybody and and
get in Um and they won't tellyou like, oh, you came too early
.
If I've had patients that willcome in and they'll be like I

(27:59):
have this knee pain but it's nothurting right now, but they
it's almost like they wish itwas so that they could show you,
cause they're like I swear ithurts when I do this, but right
now it feels great.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
I mean that's probably a good sign, right, If
it's like, yeah, not all thetime.

Speaker 2 (28:13):
And, like I said with that first part, even if it's
not hurting them right now andall the tests we do don't show
as much, I can still get a lotout of just what they tell me
about the patterns and how it'sbeen acting.
So I don't think it's ever awaste to go in, even if it's
kind of this inconsistent thing.
If anything, if you feel likeit's limiting your function and
limiting your ability to dothings that you want to do, I'd

(28:36):
say go in and get it taken careof sooner rather than later.
There were so many people thatwould go through therapy and get
better and they'd be like Iwish I would have just done this
in the first place a long timeago, rather than waiting weeks
and weeks until it got reallybad and then going in.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
So yeah, no, I.
I think that's that's greatadvice, like it's better to be
safe than sorry.
Yeah you hear it all the time,um, but I, I yeah, I don't know.
I mean you can get paranoid, Ifeel like, especially in the
beginning.

Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
But it's a good point just being like, trying to be
present with yourself and belike, okay, well, is this
something that's continuing?
Like, where's it coming from?
Does it get worse with certainthings?
I think that's also somethingthat's important is like, and
the only way you're going tounderstand that is if you move
your body.
Yeah, that's important is like,and the only way you're going to
understand that is if you moveyour body and if you're like,
you are continuing to try andstay active, whether it is walks

(29:28):
, um, if it's a bike, likeanything, just to get you moving
a little bit, um well, and thatis a good point of being able
to differentiate.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
Cause sometimes when I say if you started doing
something and you have a pain,there is a difference between
like pain that is related to aninjury and just regular soreness
from working out.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
And.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
I think some people have a like.
It seems really simple topeople that have worked out a
lot and know what that feelslike.
But sometimes you have peoplethat didn't do a ton of sports
growing up, weren't super active, but then they get super into
like running or swimming and allof a sudden they're doing all
this and they're like myshoulder hurts and and maybe it

(30:08):
is an injury.
But sometimes you discover thatit's just they haven't ever been
sore before and they're.
They're feeling sore in placesthey've never felt sore.
So that's when you kind of alsopay attention to those patterns
.
And how long does it last?
Does it get better or worsewith movement?
Normal soreness should go awaywithin a day or two.
Um, I mean, depending on whatyou did, it can be pretty

(30:31):
intense.
I remember after I ran mymarathon, I couldn't even go
downstairs.
I had to like go down sidewaysbecause I couldn't go down just
because my legs were so likesore and stiff that I could not
go down facing forward.
Um so like there's extreme casesof soreness but that went away
within a couple of days.
So if it goes away and then youdon't really have it again,

(30:54):
that kind of points more tosoreness.
If it persists and if younotice it, especially with some
movements and not as much withothers, that also is kind of a
tell that.
Okay, maybe this is something alittle more worrisome than just
regular soreness.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
That's crazy.
I, I, um, I do think about thata lot.
Actually.
It's like cause I'll have legdays that will be there for a
couple of days and I'm like, man, that was a tough one and I
just feel that soreness likedeep in the quads or in the
glutes or wherever it is.
Um, and I can imagine, like ifsomeone came into weightlifting
and they're like hey, I'm justgoing to try leg day.

(31:28):
I see all these people on TikTOK doing squats.
I'm going to try some squats.
If you've never done squats andit's like your first time,
you're going to be really,really sore.
It's like you might feel likeyou're injured, so that makes
total sense and um, yeah, Ididn't know, you ran a marathon.

Speaker 2 (31:43):
Yeah, yeah, I ran it in college.
Um, so I, like I said, I swamgrowing up.
I was a long distance swimmer,so I swam like the 500, the 200,
just freestyle, none of theother strokes, but um, but I and
I did cross country one year injunior high, but I walked a lot
.
I always would wait until thepoint of the race where my
parents couldn't see me and I'dwalk, um, just cause running

(32:07):
wasn't my favorite thing.
I wasn't very good at runningat that point and I I didn't
like that.
It was just endless, and didn'tI?
A pool was easier cause you'dturn around and come back and I
don't know why I just runningwasn't really my thing for a
long time.
But college I had a friend, um,and it was funny cause I met
her and this was like only thesecond time we hung out.

(32:29):
But she asked me if I would runa half marathon with her and
she was super into running.
We both like to exercise andsomeone bailed on her.
So I was like, you know, I I doCrossFit, I run sometimes.
I've ran like five Ks before.
I was like I think if I trainfor it I could do it.
And I called my mom, cause mymom's run half and full
marathons and I was like, if Itrain, do you think I can run a

(32:52):
marathon or a half marathon inlike six weeks?
And she's like, if you train,you should be fine.
So, um, I trained, I just kindof gradually ramped up my
training.
I didn't do anything crazy.
I still did CrossFit the otherdays because I didn't want to
give that up.
I wanted to keep doing that andbut I actually ended up doing
decently well, I feel like formy first half and I actually

(33:13):
really enjoyed it.
Like running kind of becamejust to get outside.
I I liked getting outside.
I I ran in silence.
I didn't listen to music.
Um, yeah, I just the musicwould throw me off, cause I
would try to pace with it.

Speaker 1 (33:28):
Like, I'll do that sometimes, but that's impressive
, like, and sometimes runningwithout headphones is is even
harder, spencer doesn't like it.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
He has to have one headphone, cause I like to talk
when we run.
So he just puts one headphonein so that he can still have
music but then'll talk to me.
Yeah, um, but I just I don'tknow at the time I I just felt
like it was kind of therapeutic,I could get out and run, I
didn't have to be on my phoneand it was just kind of a break
from school from being on myphone.
Oh yeah, um, kind of.

(33:56):
Maybe the reason I like itwithout music is because of the
pool.
You don't have music whenyou're underwater.

Speaker 3 (34:01):
So I feel, like maybe that's part of it.
Yeah, I can see that.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
But I've really learned to like running almost
more mentally than physically,Like it was just a nice activity
.
I didn't feel like I had tocompete in it and swimming
always feels kind of competitivefor me.
So when I go and swim againit's hard for me to not compare
to what I used to do.
So running was kind of just anice like break and I did um, so

(34:28):
running was kind of just a nicelike break and I did that half
and it went well.
So then I decided to do I'mtrying to think of when it was,
I think just a couple monthslater, that was in a fall, the
next spring I was like I wouldlove to just say that I ran a
marathon, just as a bucket listthing, um, and I and I I played
with it for a little bit.
I started training andsomething happened where I can't

(34:49):
remember.
I didn't like the training orwhat.
I had a bad run and I was like,okay, nevermind, I'm not doing
this and then that happens toall the time.
Yeah, a month went by and itjust kept coming to my mind and
I was like you know what?
I'm just going to train for it.
I was going to be home thatsummer, not work.
I didn't have much to do.
I was like I'll just, I'll behome, I'll train and I'll just

(35:09):
cross it off my bucket list.
So I ran the one up in Logan,which was nice because it's
pretty flat.
It's just a nice trail.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
Yeah, Logan's beautiful.

Speaker 2 (35:18):
That's a good place to do it so, and that one went
really well too.
I hated training for it.
I'll be honest, I don't likethe long, like 16 mile runs.
Oh yeah.
I remember having one of thosethat just seemed endless and
took me forever, and this guy ona bike passed me at one point
and was just like how long haveyou been running?
And I was just like way toolong.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
You're like don't ask me questions, man, come on,
keep going Out.
Don't ask me questions, man,come on, keep going.
Just out in the middle of.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
Wyoming, yeah so.
But race day felt really goodand I just I don't know what it
was I always ran my races wayfaster than my training runs,
Like my pace was like minutesfaster than when I ran in
training.

Speaker 1 (35:56):
That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
Which I don't know why.
I don't know if that's theright way to do it.
Just the competitions in youand, I think, just the
adrenaline and I think havingpeople around me to pace with
and then I also think justtraining that way really
increased, like my enduranceyeah um, because whenever I try
to train fast in training runs,it just felt too too much like I

(36:17):
feel like I'd redline.
So I feel like I just kind ofbuilt up a tolerance and then
when I came to race day I feltlike I could push and it just it
went better.

Speaker 1 (36:25):
Yeah, no, that's awesome.
It's like, um, I hear this alot in running and you can give
me the science, if, if this isright but, that, like 80% of
your runs, should be in in zonetwo just to build endurance.
Um, which is Not that strenuousZone 2 is.
I don't know what theequivalent would be like on a

(36:47):
bike or something else.

Speaker 2 (36:49):
Spencer's been doing a lot of Zone 2.
So he told me the other day Ithink it's you want your heart
rate max, you want to be in the68 to like 78% of your heart
rate max.
So it's based on heart ratewhich you can wear, Like he has
a watch that will kind of showhim what zone he's in so he
knows where he stays.
But yeah, it's kind of morebased on heart rate and like

(37:11):
effort than necessarily a pace.
Yeah.
But I do.
I didn't know that when Itrained, but I do think that's
true because I do feel like thatjust made my lungs like
unstoppable, like I just feltlike I could go for a long long
time.
Yeah, like unstoppable, Like Ijust felt like I could go for a
long long time.
Um, but yeah, and I thinkthat's I.
I'm not a running expert and Idon't claim to be, but talking

(37:31):
to people who do a lot ofrunning and just with my little
experience of running, but howwell I was able to do those
races I do feel like there'ssometimes where people who run a
lot might, um, mess that up alittle bit, where they focus way
too much on I have to do thismany days in training.
I have to do all these speedintervals and all these paces

(37:53):
and if I don't hit this pace,I'm not going to hit this pace
in my race.
Um, I like I had a friend whowanted to run a half and she was
all stressed about her timesand stuff and I was just like,
honestly, I would just run fordistance in your training runs,
get the mileage under your beltand then just race on race day
and you'll do great and that'sthat's kind of what I did.
It probably is more complicatedthan that.

(38:14):
If you're going to be like atrue runner and I do think
there's a place for the speedwork and all that stuff, but I I
don't feel like it's completelynecessary to run like 20 miles
five days a week.
I think you can mix and matchyour training.
I think adding variety to yourtraining keeps you from getting
injuries and kind of also helpsyou mentally not just get bogged

(38:37):
down in the training.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
Absolutely Like.
You have to switch it up for me.
It's, it's very cause, it's amonotonous sport, like it's the
same thing.
You're just running, that's it.
It's not going to change much.
The only thing that will changeis your speed, um, but when I
qualified for Boston I I workedwith a coach to to get that time
and it really was like it was.

(39:00):
Monday was an easy run, tuesdaythere was like three miles, but
with speed work.
Wednesday it was like anothereasy thing, and then it was
pretty much like, and thenSaturday was a long distance run
.
But she would always say, like,don't worry about your pace on
it, um, just try and get themiles in and focus on building
up that time to to get there.

(39:20):
And um, yeah, to your point,like I don't think it needs to
be all speed work.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
I think it's important, but what I tell
everyone I think like helped meget to that pace was was
strength training and likemixing it up a little bit and um
, and I kind of attribute thatto it too, cause while I wasn't
necessarily a runner and Ididn't do a ton of running, I
was very, very much in the gym alot and I was doing like my

(39:47):
typical week would be.
I I'd still work out at the gymfour to five days a week and I
do a run on Tuesday, run onThursday and then a long run on
Saturday and Saturdays.
I wouldn't always do the gym,but I do think that's part of
why I was able to be sosuccessful with so little
running experience was because Ihad that, that foundation of
like the, the strength training,like you said.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
Yeah, and I I mean I'm very blessed and fortunate I
haven't had like a seriousinjury, Like I've had things
come up like oh man, my anklehurts for a while, but then,
like you said, just take sometime off, and um.
But I think a lot of it isbecause of strength training and
and it makes sense to mebecause all my favorite ultra
marathon athletes they all talkabout how important strength

(40:30):
training is.
Like this guy who I love, Iwon't actually mention him.
I mention him all the time onthis podcast, so I'll say
another one Sally McRae.
Okay.
She's like one of the bestfemale ultra marathoners.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
I think Allie told me about her.
Yeah, she's unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (40:45):
And, like she's done, like two 50 races like those
crazy ones.
But she always talks about theimportance of strength training
and she has a program where sheteaches runners how to strength
train.
Um, and I think it's prettycool because I don't know what
the science is behind it, but Iassume it's like you're building
up the muscles to help justprovide a better support.

Speaker 2 (41:06):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, if you think about running, it's
just like you said, it's a veryrepetitive activity.
If you think about, like thebiomechanics of what your
muscles and joints are doing,they're just doing the same
motion over and over again,which does build muscle over
time, but running doesn'trequire as much force.
You kind of get into a rhythmand I've heard some people

(41:28):
actually even call it like it'skind of a controlled falling,
step after step.
Like you kind of also usemomentum to your advantage when
you're running, so a lot of yourmuscles aren't necessarily like
contracting as much force asthey are when you're trying to
do like a deadlift or a squat,and so I think that's part of it
is when you pair those togetheryou get the force generation

(41:52):
that you need to then go out andrun mile after mile, and that
muscle can handle it morebecause it's also trained how to
get that force output.
I also think the human body isbuilt to kind of go with the
path of least resistance.
Unfortunately, and a lot oftimes especially, certain
muscles are going to find a wayto piggyback off of other

(42:13):
muscles or not pull their weight.
But if you train them in thegym and you get them used to,
you need to activate at thistime and this is how we get you
to fire.
They're more likely to kind ofhave that muscle memory when you
go to do something like running.
So, like a lot of people, forwith running we talked about
this upstairs but it's hips, um,and even just even in older

(42:37):
people, like people I've workedwith in the hospital a lot of
times, if people struggle withjust walking, a lot of it is
like glute or hip weakness, justbecause those muscles are
supposed to help with yourposture.
They're supposed to help withswinging your leg forward and
helping with the momentum.
And those muscles are some ofthe ones that, if they don't
have to do the work, if they cankind of piggyback off of your

(42:59):
quads or hamstring they'll turnoff and they'll start to do less
and less.
they'll turn off, um, andthey'll start to do less and
less.
So a lot of the movements inthe gym the deadlifts, the
squats and all the kind of nicheaccessory movements that you
can do to get the hips workingyeah, and just get that to be
more muscle memory, then whenyou go out and run, it's already
kind of turned on, it's alreadyready to go, and they'll,

(43:20):
they'll, stay active longer.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
That's that makes a lot of sense.
It's almost like you're doingendurance training on those
small muscles or getting themready for it.
But, yeah, I think running hasgotten a lot of popularity, I
think recently, yeah, but I'vealso seen a lot of people get

(43:43):
more injured and I think it'sjust they're trying to go out
too fast or do like you said,like, oh, I'm going to do, you
know, 20 miles within five days,or whatever that number is
Because you know, they sawsomeone else on social media
doing it and they're like hey, Ican do it too.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
Well, and it's such a simple exercise, you're just
running.
You don't have to learn.
You should, but you don'talways have to learn a technique
or a form, you just can go outand run.
But I think you're right.
I think a lot of peopleunderestimate how much it can
take a toll on your body.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
Yeah, I think comparison is dangerous too,
like um, especially when youtalk about your own physical
body.
It has its own limits, it it?
It's where it is right now,like before you start working on
it, that kind of thing, like Ihad something the other day.
There's this, this guy, hisname's Truett Haynes which is
actually Cameron Haynes' son.
Okay, but he is just anunbelievable runner.

(44:35):
Like the guy will run.
He ran the Boston marathon injeans.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
Oh my gosh, and I think he got like a 236.

Speaker 1 (44:42):
So he's like so fast.
This guy is crazy In jeans.
In jeans, yeah, that's histhing is like he'll do it in
jeans.
He just actually ran bigCottonwood the half marathon.
He did it in an hour and nineminutes in jeans.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
Just insane.
So he's like he's crazy fastand I'm like how is he doing
this?
I'm pushing myself so hard andthis guy's just out there Like I
have much longer legs than him,like I should have that
advantage, right, um.
But then he put something upwhere he's like I ran my first
half marathon when I was sixyears old and I'm like okay, so
you've been doing it your entirelife.

(45:15):
Like you have these musclesdeveloped like you're in that
zone, and then your body'sadapted to it.
Um, but I think there's a lotof danger in comparison.
I think there's a lot of dangerin comparison.

Speaker 2 (45:29):
I think, especially in sports or physical activity,
because I think you see thehighlights.
So you see, like the cool stuffthat people are doing but
nobody posts, like the boringkind of accessory workout, I
mean, some people do but a lotof people don't post those on
social media or don't talk aboutthose as much.
So it looks like that they'rejust going out and running and
it's no issue and they can do itall day long.
but I guarantee he's done a lotof work in the kind of behind

(45:53):
the scenes to make that happenand, like you said, just having
the years under your belt causepeople all the time will assume
that they can just jump intosomething and it should be quick
to get there, and some peoplehave some good luck and can jump
in and can take off, but a lot,of, a lot of sports if you want

(46:14):
to be really good and reallycompetitive in them especially
nowadays where there's so muchtechnology and stuff you can do
to be so good, Um, it's a lotharder to be really really good
if you don't have that muchexperience.
So I think, having the years oftraining under your belt and
just learning, you learn a lotabout form, you learn a lot
about, um, nutrition andrecovery and sleep and all the

(46:36):
things that help with that, thatrookies sometimes don't even
have any idea about.

Speaker 1 (46:42):
That's true, like um.
I also see him like takingsaunas and ice baths and like
stuff like that to help withrecovery.
And it just makes sense, likehe's, he's figured out his
formula and that kind of thing.
But, um, yeah, you, youmentioned like the, the I guess
you can call them like theunsexy movements, where it's
like the in the gym, themobility stuff um, which I

(47:04):
assume is like what you're doingon the physical therapy side a
lot yeah um.
So if someone comes in with like, let's just say, a knee injury,
what are like the, the boringmovements that are, you know,
critical for recovery or orwhatever.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
I might be just yeah, no, that are good to do.
Yeah, so the cool thing aboutphysical therapy is it's always
going to be specific to thatperson.
But most people I see with kneepain or knee problems
oftentimes we need to work ontheir hips in some way or
another, especially hip.
We call them abductors, themuscles that kind of help bring
your legs out.

(47:39):
Um, and those are.
They're kind of deep to yourgluteus maximus, so they're your
gluteus medius, your gluteusminimus, and then there's some
other ones too, but um, yeah,how many muscles are in the
glutes?

Speaker 1 (47:50):
There's a ton.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
There's a lot there's , I don't even know how many.
There's at least like three tofive of the big known ones, and
there's a lot of other littleones.
It depends on what you call theglute, but um, cause they can
stretch down into the leg andstuff too.
But there are quite a fewlittle muscles in there that all
do different things and a lotof them have to coordinate
together.
So, again, if one of themdoesn't want to pitch in, it can

(48:14):
stress the other ones and itcan kind of cause some overuse
on the other ones.
So getting all of them to helpeach other and to work together
is one of the things that youwork on with a physical
therapist.
Work together is one of thethings that you work on with a
physical therapist.
Um, but, that being said, withpeople with knee pain, we work a
lot on hips.
Um, a really basic one.
If people have really severepain and really severe hip

(48:35):
weakness is just trying to pushyour legs out against a belt or
something like just thoseisometrics.
Um, that's what a lot of timeswhat we'll start with with
people.
Again, usually that's very lowlevel.
If you're working with like ahigh level athlete, you're
probably going to rig up somemore complicated exercise that
is more challenging.
Yeah, a belt works too, andthat's the cool thing is, in

(48:59):
school it's funny they don'tactually like we don't have a
class that's like, if somebodyhas this, do this exercise.
Um, in fact, some of myclassmates I remember being kind
of frustrated because they werelike I don't have a background
in training, I'm not superfamiliar with exercises and I
expected them to give us like alist of like, do this for this,

(49:20):
and so a lot of them had to kindof learn how to come up with
exercises Um, so that, and so alot of them had to kind of learn
how to come up with exercisesInteresting.
So that's what's kind of cooltoo is you'll see some
therapists that have theirfavorites that they use with a
lot of patients and just kind ofthe name of the game, because
you don't want to create a newone for everyone, you see.
But a lot of times your PT willbe like tailoring something to

(49:47):
what they see you doing.
So if I have someone that's,I'm noticing they have a hip
weakness thing, but then theyalso play a very dynamic sport
like soccer or something wherethey're moving around a lot.
I'll put them on like a BOSUball while they do that exercise
to give them that wobble and topractice being able to steady
themselves while they're workingon that, so that it mimics like
that muscle doesn't just needto be able to do this when

(50:07):
you're standing.
It needs to be able to do thiswhen you're running and weaving
with a ball.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
Um it's crazy.
The Bosu balls, that's probablya good call.
Yeah, Balance and stuff man.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
You can use that in a lot of ways.
It's pretty fun.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
Yeah, that's tough.

Speaker 2 (50:18):
But um, but no knee pain.
Honestly, hip stuff is is a lotof what I do with knee and you
can do a lot of ankle stuff too,and a lot of it is doing
exercises that a lot of peoplehave done, but giving the right
cues to do them correctly andworking on technique with those
you were talking about theanterior tib raises.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
Yeah, that one was great.
I saw that from Knees Over Toesguy.
Yeah, those are a good one.
And all I did was I put akettlebell on the tip of my foot
, yep, and then just startedraising it up.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
Lifting it.

Speaker 1 (50:48):
It's amazing how fatigued those get.
Yeah, it's so fast.

Speaker 2 (50:53):
But it's important.
That muscle is supposed to lift.
I can't remember the percent,but it's like some portion of
your body or it's like a certainamount times your body weight.
Like that muscle is supposed tolift a lot of weight, so you're
supposed to train those prettyhard and a lot of people don't
go to the gym and do toe raises.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
It's pretty boring, I mean like you're not going to
look cool doing it.
No, it's not like a bicep curl.
Yeah, guns aren't out, but whatdoes that muscle do Like?
Is it on the launch or is itkind?

Speaker 2 (51:22):
of yeah.
So that muscle it's calleddorsiflexion is what it helps
with, and it's basically themotion of bringing your toes up
towards you.
But anytime you're walking,running, there's certain points
of the gait cycle or when you'rethe cycle and you're running,
that your toes need to come upand clear the ground.
That muscle is also actingeccentrically when you're

(51:44):
pushing off the ground.
So it's not the muscle that'scontracting when you're pushing
off, because that's the oppositeone, yeah, but it is kind of
gradually letting that go.
So when you're running, there'sa lot of muscles that work
together in pairs while one'sfiring the others, slowly
lengthening um.
So a lot of what you'll do inpt2 is eccentrics.

(52:04):
I think those are used a tonand it's just moving slowly so
that you can train that musclehow to move under a load.
But you kind of slow it down togive it time to really do it in
the right way and in the rightpath.
Um, cause that gives you morestability, control when you go
to do it faster.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
Yeah, Cause we were.
We were talking a little bitupstairs about that with the
squats eccentric squats, is thatwhat you call them.
What's the benefit of that?
Just like explaining what itdoes and how it helps you with,
like finding the form and thatkind of thing.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
Yeah, so eccentric just means you're slowly
lengthening, instead ofconcentric means you're
contracting.
Eccentric is the opposite it'slengthening.
So when you do like temposquats or movements like that,
you're lengthening it veryslowly.
And as you're doing that, ifyou think about like a rubber
band stretching, yeah, it's kindof like you're stretching that

(52:55):
rubber band out with a load onit so you're getting it to
really move, but under tensionand under load and then tears
happen during that time, likeyeah, it breaks down the muscle
and then the hope is that itbuilds it back stronger.
So, like a lot of times, ifsomebody wants to get a pull-up
and they are not quite strongenough to lift up their body

(53:16):
weight yet, you'll have them dolike negative pull-ups is what
you call it and those are justeccentric.
Honestly, anytime you want totrain a muscle to be stronger
concentrically, training iteccentrically is a good way to
go.
You just have to be careful.
You can overdo that.
A lot of people can get likereally, really sore doing a ton

(53:37):
of eccentrics and you want to becareful with the load because
you are going slower and you arelengthening, just like with
that rubber band.
If you go too heavy it's goingto snap on you.
So you kind of have to play thegame of how many reps and how
much load to do, Otherwise youcould end up with rhabdo or
something like that.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
Yeah, rhabdo or a torn pec.
Yeah, when my brother and Iwere getting really into lifting
in college, one of our friendswas like oh well, if you can't
get a lot on the bench, just dolike.
He called him deficits like,just like bench deficits Like
you're just, you just pull itdown and then he pretty much
helps you lift it up and then godown again, Um, and like we

(54:17):
didn't know anything we weredoing, but luckily it didn't get
injured.
Um, but yeah, I've, I've seenpeople who tear pecs from doing
that kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (54:24):
It's just like it's a big load Like you gotta be
careful.
Yeah, and if you want to dothose, you just do them with
less weight.
Um, and it's, it's stilleffective.
You're just doing there's athere's a protocol called heavy
slow resistance and it'ssupposed to be enough weight
that, like you feel it, you onlyhave a couple of reps left in

(54:46):
the tank by the end.
But it shouldn't be so muchthat you're getting that point
where you're going to pullsomething, pop something scary,
yeah, um, but yeah, I, I mean.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
One thing that you've mentioned a couple of times is
recovery, and that's a big focusfor me because I want to be an
athlete and I know you andSpencer both, like, do a lot of
recovery, um, but for me, like,I don't think I truly understand
what recovery is, like I knowstretching helps, but I don't
know if, like, I'm overdoingstretching or what that is, um.

(55:15):
But yeah, I mean, sleep isimportant too.
I know food is important, but,um, yeah, let's talk about
recovery for a second.
Like what are the, what are theimportant things to hit and
what does it look like?

Speaker 2 (55:28):
Yeah, I think the first thing is some of the
things you touched on.
Um, cause, majority of recoveryis happening inside the body,
not outside.
So I think biggest things Ithink of first off is nutrition
and sleep.
Um, stretching is great.
There's a lot of recoverymovements that are great, but if
you're not getting enough sleepand you're not like fueling

(55:51):
right, they're not really goingto make as much of a dent.
Um sleep is honestly thebiggest thing.
That's what it's designed for Iknow nobody likes that answer.
But think about like if youdon't have a good night's sleep,
even if you eat the best mealsand you move the best you can,
you still don't feel quite ahundred percent.
So, sleep really trumps a lotof it.

(56:12):
That being said, sometimes Imean with us, with a kid,
sometimes you can't do much withsleep.
Um.
So there are ways to kind ofsupplement it, but I do think
sleep's a big one, and and it'snot just the amount of sleep
you're getting, but it's just aconsistent sleep routine,
because there's some people thatonly need six, seven hours.

(56:35):
There's some people that workout so much and do so much
training they need closer tonine or 10 hours.
But I think the key is thatit's consistent.
I think, if you're going to bedat a different time every night,
waking up at a different timeevery morning, your body never
has a routine.
It's hard for your body to knowwhat to expect and to know when
.
When are we recovering?
When do we need to be ready to?

Speaker 1 (56:55):
go, so it adapts to that.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
Yeah, so a lot of people.
When they talk about sleep,we'll talk about establishing a
consistent wake and sleep time.
And it's hard with our day whenyou go to work at different
times and different days, orthere's days where people are at
home or they're at work, orthey work out in the morning or
in the evening.
But, as best you can, trying tokeep it within 30 minutes every

(57:18):
day really helps.
Just cue your body.
Okay, now it's time to go tosleep, because some people will
will get to bed early, but thenthey they won't fall asleep for
a while and they have trouble.
So the best that you can is justsetting yourself up to so what,
so that your body knows, okay,now it's time to sleep and now
it's time to wake up, um, andthen that becomes more

(57:41):
consistent and your body becomesmore efficient at using the
time that you do have to sleepefficiently.
So that's the biggest thing, Ithink, is sleep, and there's
lots of things you can do tomake that better.
And then nutrition.
I think, depending on what,you're not feeling enough that

(58:04):
training's.
some of that training is goingto go to waste a little bit,
because your body's going to putenergy to what it needs.
And if you're training thatmuch but you don't even have
enough calories to just supportjust being here, um you're that
training isn't going to getsupported the way it needs to,
so you're not going to recoveras fastly, as quickly that those

(58:25):
calories are going to go toyour major organs and your um,
your more vital parts of yourbody than the little tiny
muscles that you may have beenworking on.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
So is there a macro focus that you try and get with,
like nutrition Is it?
Is it like a split betweencarbs, fat and protein, like a
percentage, wise, or?

Speaker 2 (58:44):
I think it depends on the person there's.
I don't think there's a onesize fits all for nutrition yeah
, that's unfortunately I think alot of it depends on your
training as a baseline.
If you're not like aprofessional athlete, if you're
not doing a crazy training, ifyou're just kind of doing a
consistent routine.
Yeah, most people like spencersaid when he was on um, if you
can get the one gram of proteinper pound of body weight, that's

(59:08):
usually pretty good.
If you're doing a lot more,though, you might even need more
than that to build muscle mass.
And then carbs are hard,because they kind of get a bad
rap and a lot of people want tobe low carb.
But if you're especially ifyou're a long distance athlete
or an endurance athlete, you doneed a lot of carbs just to
support.

Speaker 1 (59:28):
That's how I used to be before.
I was like I've heard so muchcrap about carbs, which is like
it makes me sad now, because nowI'm on the other side of it.

Speaker 2 (59:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
Where before I avoided them and my training,
suffered and like I would alwaysbe sore, I would never recover
well, and now I'm on the otherside where I'm like, oh no, I
need them.

Speaker 2 (59:46):
You want all of them.
They are part of my dailyroutine.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
Um, and yeah, it's just it's.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
It's interesting and I know people think like, oh
well, carbs are what make youfat and it's like calories over
over calories is what makes youfat, but well, and it depends on
the.
you also want to look at thequality because if you're
getting all your carbs fromdonuts, then yeah, you probably
need to change it a little bit,but if you're getting it from
vegetables and fruits, um, andlike more complex carbs and

(01:00:17):
potatoes, that kind of thing,you're probably doing better
that way.
So I think that's also anotherthing to look at is not just how
much you're eating and whatyou're eating, but are like what
macros you're eating but, whatspecifically you are eating.
as far as the quality of food,the more your food can be whole
foods based instead of processed, the better you're going to

(01:00:39):
feel in general.
I mean, anybody knows, if youeat a bunch of candy on
Halloween, you wake up and youdon't feel good.

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
You feel terrible.

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
If you're trying to train with that, you're not
going to feel it at your best,so you want to eat what makes
you feel good.
Um, that being said, there aresome high level athletes that
will eat a candy bar rightbefore, cause they need that
quick glucose.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
I mean same thing with like marathoners.
It's like people are like hey,you can take gels and stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
But if you look at it , it's just like gels, are just
sugar.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
It's like people eat candy all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
And I think that's where it's hard too, because you
see the really high levelpeople doing that.
And it doesn't seem to affectthem negatively.
But then you see people running5Ks that think, oh, I need all
the gels and the fancy stuff,and so you do have to look at
like, for some people you reallydon't need that.
If you're doing that level oftraining for the really high

(01:01:31):
level stuff, you probably couldcould use some of that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
Yeah, that's a hundred percent true.
Like I don't know I'll, I'll beon trail runs and now it's like
trail running season becauseAllie and I and my brother
actually were training for anultra marathon in in.
Allie and I and my brotheractually were training for an
ultra marathon in October.
Yeah, and that's just like.
You just need fuel at thatpoint because you're going up
elevation and you have superlong distances and it doesn't
really matter.

(01:01:54):
Like I remember my last ultramarathon I had people were
handing out like quesadillas andpeanut butter and jelly
sandwiches and just like randomstuff.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
Well, and even like a whole banana on mile 14 of my
marathon really yeah, like I, Iwas at the point where I I mean
it was.
It was where you start at like6 am.
So I didn't really eat a hugebreakfast before, because I
don't like running on a fullstomach.

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
But I got to that point in the race where I was
like I need, I need stuff in me,so I ate a whole banana, that
whole month, like I I portionedit out throughout the mile, but
yeah, I always have a hard timelike chewing things when I'm
running.
So that's, that's impressive.
I give you kudos there.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
But but yeah, I agree , I think if you're doing
something really long like that,you do need the, the fuel, and
you need to.
You need to look at food not somuch as like a calorie thing,
or I want to look this way, muchas like a calorie thing, or I
want to look this way.
so I need to eat this diet youneed to look at it more as fuel
to support your training andyour recovery.
So, um, it's not just whatyou're eating during races, it's

(01:02:52):
also what you're eating leadingup to and after races.
And if, if you're trying to bevery specific with that, you
probably should see like anutritionist or someone that can
give you a breakdown because,like I said, it's different for
everybody.
It really depends on your volumeof training, how much you're
doing, but in general, if youcan follow those guidelines of
get enough, enough protein, getenough carbs to support what

(01:03:14):
you're doing, stick to wholefoods.

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
Um, and water too, Like hydration a lot of water.
Yep Um electrolytes likeelectrolytes like that kind of
stuff and, um yeah, creatinespencer talked about that last
time.
Yeah, still taking 10 grams, sogood going, well um and I think
there's.

Speaker 2 (01:03:31):
There's some of that too, though, where people want
to get really specific with allthe supplements, yeah, but then
you look at, like their normaldiet and they're not eating
enough protein.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
They're eating donuts and chips and yeah there's no
fruits and veggies or anything,yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:44):
So I would say, before you get really micro, you
need to first focus on themacro, because those aren't
going to really make a dent ifyour overall diet isn't dialed
in.
Um.
That being said, people arehuman.
You can still enjoy birthdaycake every once in a while and
stuff like that.
But, um, you kind of just likethe sleep thing, you want it to
be consistent.

(01:04:04):
So you want most days, 90% ofthe time you're eating, this way
and that your body just getsused to that, Because your body
will take time to adapt.
It's not just eat good one dayand feel great, it takes a
little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
The human body is amazing, though.
I mean, everything we'retalking about today is like it
adapts over time to thedifferent things, and it can
adapt to bad training styles andthen prevent or give you
injuries, or, like you can trainin a good way and prevent some
and, um, if things do happen,then now you have tools in your
tool belt to take care of it.

(01:04:37):
It's just all you know.
Going through the journeyyourself and, um, I always say
how, like, getting after it'sgoing to be a different
experience for everyone.
It's just like with fitness,like it will look different for
every single person.
Um, like my mom and I weretalking and she's like I ran
three and a half miles today andshe's, oh, she's going to get
mad at me for this one, but Ithink she's 56.
Um and like she didn't run ayear and a half ago, and so

(01:05:02):
seeing her now where she's atthree and a half miles is like
that's awesome.
That's huge improvement.
And um, it's all, it's allrelative.
Like your heart is going to berelative to whatever it is.
That's difficult for you, Um,but doing it in a smart way and
a slow like, don't just go rightout the gun right away.
Like I know, it's excitingbecause like my brother and I in

(01:05:23):
college like we were excitedabout weightlifting and we just
wanted to keep going up inweight.
But um, I think it's much more,um, it's a much more better
path to to take the slow andsteady path rather than the I'm
just going to go into it andmaybe get injured Like you just
don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:05:43):
Well, and even when you're recovering from an injury
, you have to be okay with thefact that it's going to take
time.
And, like you said, there'speople that previously were
doing a lot more and then kindof have to take time off for a
while and rehab.
But then they start to getexcited at those little wins
even though they used to do alot more in three miles than
anything compared to what theywere doing before, but it's cool

(01:06:04):
to see when, even though, theyused to do a lot more, and three
miles isn't anything comparedto what they were doing before.
But, um, it's cool to see whenthat starts becoming exciting
and they get closer and closerto getting back.
But I do think having thatmindset of taking time and being
okay with it being a processand not an instantaneous thing
is really important.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
Do you have to, like, do you ever have to talk to
people about that, Like who they?
Just I don't know Either.
It is like for me.
I know I feel bad about myselfif I'm not hitting my training
program or like something's up,Um, and I can imagine athletes
who come in feel the same way.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
Yeah, no, that's a big thing.
Um, usually on that first day,we'll talk about goals and kind
of expectations, cause there'ssome people who think they're
going to walk in and you'regoing to fix them and they're
going to walk out and do whatthey want to do, and sometimes
you can.
I have had like one or twopatients where it was a really
simple fix and they were finethe next day.
I wish all of them were thateasy, but they're not.

(01:06:57):
So a lot of times you do haveto kind of adjust expectations
and let them know, based on howthey're presenting, what their
prognosis looks like, and you,you always have to be careful,
though, cause if you give peopleexact timelines.

Speaker 1 (01:07:11):
They're going to hold you to that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
If 12 weeks go by and they're not where you said they
would be, they're not.
They're not happy you lied tome.
Yeah.
So giving them a realistictimeline but still making it
general enough to where, ifthere's wiggle room, there's
wiggle room, um, but then withthe goals, I think, just just
giving them hope that they willget there.
They just have to be okay withit being a process.

(01:07:32):
And then I think it's justimportant, on the follow-ups,
just highlighting those wins.
A lot of a lot of patients willbe like I barely did anything
and I'll be like well, you didthis and you couldn't do this on
the first day.
And you just have to help themkind of see those as wins and
see those as steps in the rightdirection.
Just like with anything else inlife, if you kind of get fixed

(01:07:53):
on the goal but forget kind ofthe stepstones to get there,
you're going to get reallydiscouraged and really down.
So being able to see those aslittle wins in order order to
get to the big one, um, helpspeople stay a little bit better
mentally.

Speaker 1 (01:08:08):
That makes sense and I always tell people, like,
progress is progress, no matterhow small.
And um, like, if you're everstruggling with training or if
it's recovery, like just beproud of the small wins, because
that means you're gettingbetter, you're moving in the
right direction and there is,you know, hope that you will,

(01:08:28):
you know, hopefully take off andget healed and maybe be able to
do what you used to be able to.
But, you know, maybe not, andbe okay with it, but progress is
progress.
And yeah, I think that's hugeand that was a question more for
me, because I feel like I wouldbe in that boat.
A lot of people are.

Speaker 2 (01:08:43):
I would be, I am too.
I I'm kind of like you.
I luckily I've never had tohave like a super serious injury
.
I've sprained an ankle.
Funnily enough, most of themwere in PT school.
Um, yeah, I sprained an ankle.
I hurt my shoulder for a littlebit, but not nothing like major
surgery or anything.
Um, but I did.
My brother did have quite a fewinjuries in high school.

(01:09:04):
He had all this stuff in hisknees.
He was on crutches for a longtime.
Um, but it's cool because he now, I think, is one of the most
resilient people I know and Ithink a lot of that came out of
that experience out of justhaving to be patient and like
not be able to do everything youwant to do right now, but be
happy with what he could do andhe, he also just didn't let that
deter him from still trying todo everything you want to do

(01:09:25):
right now, but be happy withwhat he could do and he, he also
just didn't let that deter himfrom still trying to do what he
wanted to do.
Yeah, I think sometimes people,as soon as they hit the wall,
they just want to turn aroundand not try anymore and take a
different path which might bethe case for some people, but in
general I think if you want tokeep going after what you want,
you just have to be okay withsometimes it takes a little bit

(01:09:46):
longer.

Speaker 1 (01:09:47):
Yeah, and I love what you just said about resiliency
and I actually want to ask youabout that, because that's the
name of your guys' physicaltherapy clinic.
So how did you guys come upwith Resilient?

Speaker 2 (01:09:59):
So when I got interviewed to go to the?
U for PT school, one of thequestions in my interview.
That they asked me was how wouldyou define resilience?
And I don't know why that kindof stuck with me.
I have always liked that wordbecause I feel like that word
can be applied to a lot ofdifferent scenarios.
It can be applied to likefitness.
It can be applied to likespiritual type things.

(01:10:21):
It can be applied to just youroverall aspect or outlook on
life.
Spencer's always really likedthat word too and I just like
when I was thinking about what Iwanted my physical therapy
business to be called, I wantedto somehow tie in that when you
take time to work on yourselfphysically and get better

(01:10:43):
functionally, your whole lifekind of benefits from it.
If you know anyone that's supersick or really debilitated with
an illness or an injury, itaffects every aspect of their
life.
They can't go to the bathroomby themselves, they can't like
it really limits how much theycan enjoy their life and not

(01:11:05):
that that's everything Likethere's.
There are people that havelifelong illnesses or injuries
that still find a way to livehappy, bright lives and make a
difference in the world, andthey are awesome, incredible
people that have a lot ofresilience.
Um, but I think it's cool thatwhen you work with people and
you help them make changes intheir function, even the

(01:11:27):
littlest changes can make a hugedifference in the quality of
life that they have and justmake them better people too.
Like I said, watching mybrother go through that that
made him a better person havingto go through that experience.
So I just wanted it to reflectthat going through rehab or
therapy doesn't have to be anegative thing in your life it

(01:11:48):
can actually make you come outstronger and better than when
you started yeah, I love that.

Speaker 1 (01:11:53):
That's such a good name.
And resilience is it?
It's, it's huge Like, not justin fitness but in life in
general like.
I'm sure when you were goingthrough school with Christian
and, and you know that was likeI gotta be as resilient as I can
be, Um, cause there's going tobe days when I don't sleep and I
got to still bounce back and bebetter tomorrow.
And um, I'm sure that helpedmake you into who you are today.

(01:12:16):
And, um, I can say the samething about like experiences in
my life, Cause you mentionedlike having a debilitating
illness and I wasn't in like aterrible, um physical state
where I couldn't do or I couldstill do the things I needed to
in life, but I was like 135pounds and I was really sick, Um
, but that's helped me recognizethat like, oh, I know what it's

(01:12:39):
like to be on that side.
I'm going to be able, I'm goingto try and do my best to to
live life to the fullest,because I know what it's like to
not be able to.

Speaker 2 (01:12:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:47):
Um, and I feel like that's taught me a little bit of
resiliency too.
And um, I just I love that word.
It's like you're going to comeback and you're going to come
back stronger.

Speaker 2 (01:12:58):
Yep, that's icing on the cake right there.
Yeah, it's awesome Becausethat's the goal most times in
therapy and sometimes you don'talways get there.
Sometimes people never quiteget back to where they were, but
a lot of times if we could getsomeone even stronger than
before they got injured or hurt,that was an awesome achievement
.

Speaker 1 (01:13:20):
Then they feel really confident that not only did I
fix this, but it's not going tohappen to me again.
Um and I've heard that actuallydoes happen, Like when you go
through an injury, the bodybuilds it back stronger.
I know, obviously bones arelike the easiest example, like
they grow back stronger, um, butis that the same with, like
tendons, ligaments, um, thatkind of thing?
Is it because you're buildingthe muscles around it, or is
that?

Speaker 2 (01:13:40):
So I think it depends there are.
When you have, like a tendon ora ligament injury, it is
actually sometimes at a higherrisk of re-injury just because
it's already been injured once.
So I don't know if it's exactlylike bones, but I do think,
because you're doing tailored,specific exercises that most
people probably won't weren'tdoing before, if they continue

(01:14:02):
to be consistent with those andthey've learned how to move and
how to how to do things theright way, I think all that
supporting stuff is what makesthem a little bit stronger and
more resistant to gettinginjured again.
Um, again, there is a re-injuryrate when you've had that
before, just cause it's it'salready happened once.
But in general, I feel likepeople that really take the time

(01:14:24):
to take it seriously and torehab really well can come out
of it with more strength thanthey had before.
Um, and just more wisdom andlike knowing how to move,
knowing what they can take andwhen they need to be a little
bit more cautious.
Um, I think most injuriessometimes happen just cause you
didn't know exactly what youwere doing and got kind of taken

(01:14:45):
out or just a freak accident.
And.
But then you know to be morecareful or to avoid certain
things in the future.

Speaker 1 (01:14:52):
So I think that's great.
Yeah, where do you want to seethe clinic go?
Yeah, or what's the dream, Iguess?

Speaker 2 (01:15:02):
The dream is kind of with Spencer as well.
I think eventually we'd love towork together.
Yeah.
The field of medicine that hewants to go into is very similar
to physical therapy and theywork a lot with physical
therapists.
So we've always I mean that'show we met was at the gym.

(01:15:24):
Um, we've always.
And then we had all of ourexercise science classes
together in college, so we'vealways really connected on like
loving the human body and howfitness helps people.
Um, so I I definitely think weboth see ourselves eventually
when we're older and our kidsare older, and we can work
together, working together andjust helping people.
I think including a gym in thatsomehow would be really cool.

(01:15:45):
But yeah, that's kind of thelong-term goal.
Is it turning into not just aphysical therapy but a medical
side of it for him too, and justan overall like health and
wellness set up?

Speaker 1 (01:15:59):
Yeah Well, I love that Cause.
Like I don't know, I feel likethe world kind of needs more of
it honestly because, like wewere talking about in the
beginning, doctors and you knownot to shy on them, but they are
a little bit more amped to belike, hey, well, let's go under
the knife, kind of thing.
There's a lot that can be donebefore going that route, and my

(01:16:23):
dad always says this.
He's like once you go undersurgery, it'll never be the same
and sometimes it's better.
I'm not going to shoot downsurgery all the time but, um,
like, sometimes it's necessarybut there's a lot that can be
done to prevent, to strengthenand to treat injuries when, when
they do happen.
Um like my wife, like greatexample she's going through some

(01:16:45):
knee injuries right now and, um, you're giving her some
exercises to do and, um, youknow it's very early on.
So, like you know, we we won'treally know, but I assume like,
if she stays consistent, if shedoes these things, she's going
to build back and become astronger and better runner.

Speaker 2 (01:16:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:00):
So I think that's awesome.
Like the world needs more, youknow, movement as medicine kind
of.
Thing.
And yeah, I love that.
And if someone was like wantingto just move a little bit more
exercise in their own waythey're not like big into
weightlifting, they don't reallylike running or doing forms of
cardio Like what would yousuggest for that person to do To

(01:17:22):
keep up?
On.

Speaker 2 (01:17:23):
Well and I'm glad you brought this up, cause we
didn't really talk about thephysical side of recovery as
much but, um, I think, just ingeneral being active, I think
anything you're doing, if you're, if you are a runner, but all
you do is run and then the other23 hours of the day you sit on
the couch like that's, that'syou got to think of what your
body is doing the majority ofthe time and, um, there is

(01:17:46):
definitely a place for if you doa really intense amount of
training, you do need some resttime on the couch.
But I think, in general, justbeing active and healthy, doing
stuff outside and gettingoutside.
I think also, just if you aregoing to start a new form of
exercise or a new type oftraining, making sure you know
that you have the righttechnique, that you do some of

(01:18:09):
those accessory training things.
I think when people think aboutrecovery and injury prevention,
they think about, like the foamrolling and stretches, but a
lot of what we do in PT is justnormal exercises.
So I think, for anybody that'swanting to start training or is
training and wanting to preventinjury, just making sure you're

(01:18:31):
doing supportive exercises towhatever you're doing, like we
talked about with the strengthtraining, with the running, um,
and then I think, just beinghumble kind of like you said, to
take it easy, to not just divein, my example of marathon
training probably wasn't a greatone for that.
But but, I still kind ofstaggered it.
I still kind of gave myselftime to ramp it up.

(01:18:52):
I didn't just go out and run 10miles one day on cold legs.
Um, I think just being smartabout how you're getting into
stuff and being humble enough torecognize you might not be the
people that you see on Instagramdoing all the crazy stuff quite
yet, but but also knowing that,um, just because you haven't
been an athlete and you haven'tdone sports all your life, I

(01:19:15):
didn't consider myself the mostathletic person in like junior
high and elementary school, butI found a love for fitness just
because I discovered like Icould lift, I could do things
that I didn't know I could do,and so and that's kind of the
exciting part about health andexercise is, if you get into it,
you can discover a love forcertain things.

(01:19:35):
Like you probably didn't knowyou loved running until you got
into it but I hated it untilthree years ago.

Speaker 1 (01:19:41):
Yeah, it's like my, my least favorite thing, but um,
it is interesting.
Like you, you learn a lot aboutyourself.
You learn what you'reinterested in and what you like.
And, um, yeah, I, I always tellpeople, like for running
specifically or likeweightlifting, like don't go hot
out the gate, just try and youknow, just first jog around your

(01:20:02):
neighborhood and see how youfeel, and if you feel like you
can keep going, then maybe do alittle bit more, but don't push
it.
So yeah, I mean it's definitelygoing to be tailored to
whatever you like, whatever yourinterests are, and that's one
reason I love fitness is becauseit also teaches you discipline
and consistency, just like how,if you get injured, like you're
gonna have to be disciplined andconsistent with your exercises

(01:20:23):
to to actually recover and feelbetter um, and yeah, it's just.
It's interesting becauseeveryone has their own path and
I um, I think I told you alittle bit upstairs like I'm
trying to incorporate moremobility work into my own
exercises.
And like my next leg day isgoing to look like maybe one of
my weakest leg days ever interms of weights, but like I

(01:20:44):
know what I'm doing, At leastlike with uh trying to exercise
those other muscles and I hopethat it works.
Um, but again, it's all aimedto help with my other love of
running.

Speaker 2 (01:20:57):
Yeah, I think that's.
Another thing is don't don'tshy away from your weaknesses,
because that's when you'llprobably overload your strengths
and then get overuse or orinjuries there.
Um, when you find somethingthat you're not that good at,
spend some time, even thoughit's humbling, spend some time
to try to get better at it.

Speaker 1 (01:21:20):
That doesn't mean you have to do like if you hate
soccer.

Speaker 2 (01:21:21):
that doesn't mean you have to go out and play soccer,
but um it.
I just think too many peoplelike go into the lane that
they're they like and they'regood at and kind of ignore the
stuff that they probably alsoneed to incorporate and then
when they get to physicaltherapy it's like guess what
we're going to make you do someof that stuff that you don't
like.
Um, and they don't like it, butthey learn that that stuff even

(01:21:43):
though it's not always thefunnest, sexiest stuff, it is
it's a good way to lay afoundation to let you do what
you like to do better.
So, like you said, the mobilitystuff, um, I think an easy
example is just like when youwould have kids in sports.
Like little kids think aboutthe types of stuff they're doing
.
They're not spending the wholepractice playing the game.

(01:22:04):
They're doing a lot of drills,they're doing a lot of warm-ups,
they're doing a lot of liketalking about the technique and
the form and some of that isboring for the kids and they
don't.
And of course, all the kidswant to do is play the game.
But there's a lot of stuff theyhave to do.
First, I think about, like myswim practices growing up.
Most of the practice was likelong swims, drills, different

(01:22:29):
types of technique work, andsome of it was not the funnest
thing to do.
But then when you went andraced, you had that foundation
to kind of fall back on, yourbody knew what to do and you
could just go.
So kind of the same thing withrecovery and building that
foundation.
Think of all the things thatyou probably would need to teach
a kid if they were going tostart this sport and start doing

(01:22:52):
some of that.

Speaker 1 (01:22:52):
That's a good way to look at it.
Actually, I like that a lot andstart doing some of that.

Speaker 2 (01:22:55):
That's a good way to look at it.
Actually, I like that a lot.
Yeah, master the fundamentals.
Yeah, because that's thebiggest thing.
If you can make a strongfoundation, your injury rate
will go way down.
I mean, I use this example alot because Spencer's pretty
good at CrossFit right now.

Speaker 1 (01:23:07):
He's a monster.
He's really good, but if youknew.

Speaker 2 (01:23:12):
it's funny because I've done it for a lot longer
than he has, but he looks likehe's done it for a lot longer
than I have.
But part of it is because hespent so many years bodybuilding
and doing some of thoseaccessory movements that we
don't do as much in CrossFitcause they're not as sexy and
fun and you can't do them fortime as much.
But because he took so muchtime to build that foundation,
he can hop up and do the ringmuscle ups and the crazy

(01:23:36):
movements that look really hardand people will watch and be
like what do you do to do that?
And they don't like his answer.
But his answer is usually youneed to work on your strict
pull-ups, you need to work onyour accessory movements.
Um, and he might be mad at methat I said that, but I just
think it's yeah, I've knownSpencer for years and like he's

(01:23:57):
always been into bodybuildingand I just think he's a good
example of the consistency.
If you know him, you know howconsistent he is and it pays off
in that.
And that's why when people arelike, oh my gosh, he's just
gifted, I'm like he is, but alot of it is also just the
consistency that he's put intoit.
He is, but a lot of it is alsojust the consistency that he's
put into it.

(01:24:17):
And any any client I've workedwith that becomes a really solid
athlete and does really well.
It's the hours of of consistentthings they've done.
That aren't always the funnestthings to do, but they know
they're going to help.

Speaker 1 (01:24:28):
Yeah, I love that.
That's that's important in allthings in life.
It's like the little things addup over time and that's what
creates the drastic change.
The drastic result is the smallminute steps that get you there
.
So I think that's great and,yeah, I mean fitness is a
journey like make it your ownand, yeah, do what you can to

(01:24:52):
find what you love and build thebase and just build it into
your routine.

Speaker 2 (01:24:56):
I think people's excuse a lot of times is I don't
have time to do that but, thenthey have time for a two-hour
run.
I'm like, just make it part ofyou do these five things before
you run, or you do these thingswhen you're sitting on the couch
watching TV, or you just haveto kind of build it into your
day and make it consistent andthen it becomes just a habit and

(01:25:17):
I think a lot of those higherlevel athletes, you see that do
all that stuff.
They do it as habits, like theyhave a routine that they follow
and it's built into their dayand then they don't have to set
aside this big chunk of time todo it all the time.

Speaker 1 (01:25:30):
So I mean, you're a mom like there you go.
That's everyone else's excusescan go out the window.
But, that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:25:36):
Do it with your kids.
Yeah, do it with your kids.

Speaker 1 (01:25:39):
I do love seeing that .
Like you know, spencer and youguys will always like post stuff
you were telling upstairs likehe was like doing handstand
push-ups.
Yeah, he's trying to do wallwalks up the wall.

Speaker 2 (01:25:51):
That's so good, and but that's honestly what makes
it so rewarding is you realizehow much they watch you?
And like and that's what Ithink is cool too with just
health and exercise in generalis you?
You kind of create an examplefor your kids, you create a
legacy for your whole family.
A lot of people I see that havethese bad habits.

(01:26:12):
They've had them because theirparents had them their
grandparents had them.
Like, it's generational and itsometimes can be really hard to
break that chain.
So if you can start a healthychain for your, your family, and
start them out being healthyand having an active lifestyle,
you're going to benefit.
I mean, I'm a product of my, mymom and dad and and the the

(01:26:33):
examples they've set of beingactive and healthy, and I just I
think it's cool that we can dothat for him.
I also think he's just adifferent kid.
What he likes to do.
But um, not many kids love todeadlift a kettlebell, but I
mean that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:26:47):
When Spencer's your dad, he's going to, he's going
to be the next, uh, matt Frazier.

Speaker 2 (01:26:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:26:54):
I think that's awesome, Like I mean, imagine
the foundation that he'sbuilding just from your guys's
example and seeing thatfirsthand.
Um, you know he's going to goto his friend's house at some
point and be like why are youguys eating pizza?

Speaker 2 (01:27:06):
Like what the heck?

Speaker 1 (01:27:08):
You shouldn't be doing that.
But, like it's, he knows thewhat leads to like a healthy
lifestyle, or or he's seen thatthrough your example.
I think that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:27:15):
Well, and it's cool.
I'll just add this in Cause I Ijust thought of this and, um, I
think a lot of it is what he'sseen since he's been born.
But we also came across thisstudy that I thought was cool is
, the more active you are whenyou're pregnant and the more
like strength training you do,it actually changes like the
type of muscle that your babyhas and the tendency they have

(01:27:36):
to want to be active.
So, if you can be active throughyour pregnancy, you can
influence how active your kidmight want to be which.
Spencer loved and I thought itwas really cool too, but so and
that was a big motivation for mewhen I was pregnant to just to
still be active.
I mean, you still have to becareful and dial some things
back, but I did as much as Icould when I was pregnant and I

(01:27:58):
do think that that's part of howmuch he loves to be active,
because from the get go, hewanted to move.

Speaker 1 (01:28:03):
He's like I want to do something, I want to move,
yeah, so that's amazing.
How, um, how long into yourpregnancy were you active?

Speaker 2 (01:28:10):
Honestly, like the whole time.
I yeah, at the beginning.
I think there was a time at thebeginning that, because I
hadn't been pregnant before andI was like, oh my gosh, do I
need to dial things back?
There's a and I was super sick.
So there's a bit of time whereyou're like really nervous.
But honestly, the best I feltwhen I was pregnant was when I
was exercising, because it kindof took my mind off being sick.

Speaker 1 (01:28:31):
So that's, amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:28:32):
I loved to do it.
I probably in some ways maybeoverdid it a little bit.
Sometimes I I had to kind ofrein myself in sometimes, cause
you want to be as fit as youwere and you want to do
everything you were doing, um,but I do think that it helped me
just have a better recoveryafterwards, um, and just be able
to be active afterwards.

(01:28:54):
I don't feel like I lost a tonof fitness right away.
Of course, you kind of gothrough a dip but I feel like
I'm back to being as active as Iwas before.
That's amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:29:05):
That's so cool.

Speaker 2 (01:29:05):
I just think, just doing what you can, I wouldn't
tell someone if they're notsuper active and they get
pregnant, to ramp up thetraining.
I think you need to stick towhere you were at and kind of
stay at that level.
But you can definitely dothings even when you're pregnant
and even when you're postpartumand I mean I, I, I think that's
awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:29:26):
I saw my coach, the same one that helped me um
during my marathon training.
She has been running Um.
She's eight months pregnantright now, but she's running
like 11 miles.

Speaker 2 (01:29:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:29:37):
Or like six miles in the mountains and it's obviously
like a much slower pace.
Yeah, and she's an amazingrunner and her paces are like 11
minutes a mile.
Yeah.
But, for her.
That's crazy slow.
But like she's still out anddoing it, so that's amazing.
That kid's going to be like thenext Usain Bolt probably A good
runner.

Speaker 2 (01:29:56):
Yeah, yeah and it's.
It's funny Cause, like I, Iliked to run, but I that was one
thing I had to give up prettyearly on.
It just hurt too much to runfor some reason, and other
people I know can run whenthey're eight, nine months, so I
think it depends on what you'vedone before and just how your
body reacts.
There's some people that justunfortunately, just can't do as

(01:30:16):
much as they want to do whenthey're pregnant.
But I do think that that thatstudy was cool that is amazing.
That even just influences yourkids, like their affinity to it,
not even just their muscle, buthow much they'll want to be
active.

Speaker 1 (01:30:29):
That's so cool, so that's interesting.
Do you know, do you remember,who the study was from?
I need to look it up.

Speaker 2 (01:30:35):
I I've seen it a few times in different places.
Um, I'll have to ask Spencerand send it to you.
Maybe you can put it in theshow notes or something.

Speaker 1 (01:30:42):
I would love to cause that's awesome, like, yeah,
what, what good motivation.
Like, what better motivationthan that?
Like I want to help my kid havea great healthy life, and this
might be a way to do it.
So that's what's cool too, Imean you are a beast, though I
will say that like that's that'simpressive, that's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:30:59):
No, I think I honestly it's.
It's been cool Cause at thesame time that I was pregnant,
there were a lot of high levelathletes and like CrossFit and
other things getting pregnant.
So I felt like that helped mefeel better about it, cause I
was like, okay, they're stilldoing stuff, I'm gonna be okay.
Um, and then I've had friendsget pregnant since that have
asked me like, am I okay to dothis?
and and so it's just, it's coolto kind of go through that and

(01:31:22):
learn, um.
But I do think that that's justa cool motivation of all of it,
um, that you want to be healthyso that you can be with your
family and that you can leave agood legacy for your family to
be healthy.
And, at the end of the day, thehealthier you are, the more
freedom you're going to havelater into your life.

Speaker 1 (01:31:39):
Yeah, absolutely, and like we've talked about running
and that kind of thing too, andin CrossFit and um, those
things tend to come with, likeyou know, in running.
If you run a marathon you get amedal and they're cool
accomplishments that you can do,but at the end of the day,
what's important is that you'reable to stay healthy late into
your years and avoid a lot ofthose pains from not moving your

(01:32:02):
body and a lot of it'spreventable.
I've seen my dad.
He's 62.
He's running in the mountains,he runs trails and he'll go on
hikes.
But then I see other62-year-olds who can't and I
think it's just because oflifestyle choices and, um, it's
sad to see but also it's.

(01:32:23):
It's reassuring and kind ofhopeful to be like okay, well, I
know, if I continue this and Icontinue working on myself
physically and and and eat well,try and sleep well, um, I'll
have a better future andhopefully avoid some of those
ailments that come with age.

Speaker 2 (01:32:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:32:38):
Age is one thing we can't avoid.

Speaker 2 (01:32:39):
No, I think too it, just like you said earlier, I
think it also just makes you abetter person when you push
yourself to do harder things.
I think like and and that's whypeople that are healthy, even
when they're living longer,their whole life seems to just
be great.
Just because they're, they'vepushed themselves and they've
made themselves do hard thingsover and over again and that
just builds your character andthat, I mean that, for me, was

(01:33:02):
the biggest thing in themarathon.
When I finished I really, likeyou, feel tired physically.
I felt proud of myselfphysically but honestly, for me
that was such more a mentalaccomplishment than anything and
just I had kind of had a hardyear and for me it was just like
I showed myself that I could dosomething I didn't think I
could do.
Cause I if you would have askedme years before that, I would

(01:33:24):
have said I would never run amarathon, I'm not a runner.
So to to overcome that and saylike I can do this if I want to.
Um, I just remember finishingthat race feeling so incredibly
like grateful, like it was ahuge.
It was almost like a spiritualexperience for me to just
feeling like I accomplishedsomething that never would have
thought I would have done andthat I I had so much fun doing

(01:33:46):
it and felt so good Like Iexceeded my time goal.

Speaker 1 (01:33:50):
I was just like everything went super well, yeah
, um that's amazing, that's sogood, it really it does feel
like that.
Sometimes, though, like man, Ijust I suffered, for I don't
know what your marathon time was, but we'll just say like four
hours, yeah, that was my goal,really.

Speaker 2 (01:34:07):
Yeah, 356.

Speaker 1 (01:34:08):
There you go.
That's awesome, that's huge.

Speaker 2 (01:34:10):
Which never would have planned.

Speaker 1 (01:34:21):
None of my training runs were on pace for that or
anything, but the raceenvironment does something.
But like, I think it's cool,it's like, hey, I'm going to go
out for four hours and sufferand learn a lot about myself and
feel accomplished at the endand um, it really is like a
mental thing.
And my first marathon was kindof the same.
I was like this is embarrassing.
But I remember like I wasdriving up um up the mountain
and I just like come over thepeak of the mountain and I was
just like I start crying.
I'm like I'm so glad I'm alive.

Speaker 2 (01:34:40):
It's like so stupid it makes you emotional.

Speaker 1 (01:34:43):
Yeah, it's like you just feel great and, um, I
always, uh, I I've heard thisthing about like chosen versus
unchosen suffering and thechosen suffering that you do,
which could be, you know, aCrossFit class or biking or
running or weightlifting,anything like that.
That's going to be difficultfor you and it's going to test
you.
That's going to make you betteraimed and able to handle the

(01:35:07):
unchosen suffering that comesyour way.
So you know, if you lose yourjob or like a loved one gets
sick or you get sick, likeyou're going to be able to say,
hey, I can, I know I can do hardthings and I know I can get
through this.
Just by persevering and beingresilient and I'll be able to
get through it really, and Ijust think that's a.
It's a huge thing.

(01:35:28):
Like the reason I talk aboutfitness and and I'm glad I was
able to have you on today totalk about it is because I think
it trains your brain to say Ican handle tough stuff, I can do
difficult things.

Speaker 2 (01:35:40):
No, I totally agree, cause I think that's that
marathon has become kind of a athing for me of like when I when
I do go through something hard.
When I found out I was pregnantin the middle of school, one of
the first thoughts I had was,like okay, I ran a marathon, I.
This is probably going to beharder, but I can do that.
Like, it's it's and Spencerwill use that all the time.
He'll be like it's just anothermarathon.

(01:36:01):
You just do it, and so I dothink there is a thing to making
yourself do something hard andyou're choosing to do it I.
You made me think of thatscripture, and like Alma, where
they talk about the differencebetween being humbled and
choosing to be humble.
Oh yeah.
Um that's a great.

Speaker 3 (01:36:17):
Yeah, I'm going to throw that in the show notes too
.

Speaker 2 (01:36:19):
That's good I think, when you choose to be humble,
you, you let yourself kind ofexperience what you need to
before you have to, and then,when you are in a situation that
you really can't control,you're so much better equipped
to face it and handle it becauseyou're like, okay, I've.
I've put myself here before.

(01:36:39):
I know how I responded.
Now I'm being put here, how amI going to respond?

Speaker 1 (01:36:43):
And it's not as scary and absolutely, and jarring, I
mean it's that word resilienceagain.

Speaker 2 (01:36:49):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:36:50):
I love that you use that as as the name resilient PT
like that's, that's perfect.

Speaker 2 (01:36:57):
Well, and that's that's what I really hope it is
for people.
I I do love fitness andexercise, um, but at the end of
the day, the main thing I'veloved about it is just seeing
the difference it makes forpeople.
I think it's so, so rewarding tohear how much better people are
doing and that they can do whatthey love and and that's just
been cool Like that.
Like I think that's whatmotivates me to do it and that's

(01:37:19):
what I like about it.
It's not as much I could geekout about muscles and tissue and
all that stuff.
But honestly, at the end of theday, for me the biggest thing is
the function that people getfrom it and just that they can
be who they want to be, do whatthey want to be, do what they
want to do and not have to dealwith pain and and all that stuff
for so long.

Speaker 1 (01:37:36):
I mean someone getting out of bed and being
like oh, I can go outside andwater my flowers If they weren't
able to do that before.
Like it just gives them theirlife back in a sense.

Speaker 2 (01:37:46):
And they're grateful for everything there.
I mean, I worked at thehospital today and I, whenever I
work there, I come home and I Ijust feel like I'm more
grateful and I tell Spencer allthe time, I'm like I have
nothing to complain about,because you see people in these,
in these terrible situationsthat they didn't control, that
they got sick or they had anaccident or um, and they're in a

(01:38:08):
hospital.
I mean, the hospital I work atit's a long-term acute care type
place, so people are in therefor months, weeks, like and, and
they don't get to have, they'renot at home, they don't get to
go to work, they, they live in ahospital and um yeah, I just
I've seen a lot of people likethat and just thought about how
much we take it for grantedsometimes that we just have the

(01:38:30):
freedom in our day to do what wewant to do and go where we want
to go.
And when you think about it thatway, you realize how much of a
gift it is to just be, able toto function physically, and so
that's always cool.
To give that back to people andto let them kind of regain that
and then see them be able tojust appreciate it and not take
it for granted is so cool.

Speaker 1 (01:38:50):
Yeah, that is.
That is awesome, like gratitude.
It really is, and we have a lotto be grateful for, and our
health is one of them and, likeAllie and I, we pray for that or
we thank the Lord for thatevery night.
It's like you know, we might nothave everything that we want in
life, but at least we have ourhealth and that's like one of

(01:39:12):
the biggest things that, um, Ithink you can be grateful for.
Like I don't know if you'veheard this quote, but you have
100 problems until you have,until your health is the problem
, then you have one, and thenyou have one.
Yeah, and it's like that reallyis true.
It's like when you're sick inbed, if you have the flu, it's
like you just, you're justpraying now like man I cannot
wait until I'm better work.

Speaker 2 (01:39:32):
Call out a sick of work yeah, everything else gets
thrown out the window.

Speaker 1 (01:39:35):
Yeah, it's like see you later.
Like, oh, the job I was worriedabout, don't care anymore.
Like it is what it is.
It's like you just want to getbetter and I think that's
amazing, like you're able to dothat for people and they're able
to see themselves get thatfreedom back.
That's so cool, cool.

(01:40:03):
So I think what you're doing isamazing.
What Spencer's doing, you knowyou guys are both going to do
some pretty great things.

Speaker 2 (01:40:06):
I think so, um, but yeah, any anything else before
we wrap up that you want toshare or um, I don't think so.
Just if people have questions,I'm I'm always happy to be a
resource.
I I don't want to like advertisebut, honestly, I love like when
people just have questions justif they want to pick my brain.
I'm not an expert in everythingand I don't I don't pretend to
be, but I like to help peoplewhere I can.
So, um, it's funny when you'rea physical therapist, or even

(01:40:30):
Spencer in med school.
We like family and friends allthe time.
I have this in my shoulder, Ihave this going but and people
think it might be annoying, butI honestly it's so fun to me
that people want to talk to usabout that, because it's
something we both love.
So I just like to to helppeople when I can, and if I
can't, I'll try to find someoneelse that can, or or information

(01:40:51):
for them.

Speaker 1 (01:40:52):
But where can people find you?

Speaker 2 (01:40:54):
Um have an instagram page.
You can link it, but it's justresilient, it's performance and
rehab now that's what it'scalled um.
And then, yeah, I, I do alittle practice out of a gym, um
, but I'm I'm pretty flexibleanytime too awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:41:11):
I'll definitely put in in the show notes.
But yeah, it's been greattalking today and I've learned a
lot, so I can't wait toincorporate some of those things
back into my training.
But, um, yeah, thanks forcoming on.

Speaker 2 (01:41:23):
It's been great.
Thanks for having me.
This was fun.

Speaker 1 (01:41:25):
Of course it is fun, and I love having people on,
just like sharing their storiesand what they're passionate
about, and like uncovering, youknow what got you into physical
therapy and stuff and it's cool.
It's like I just want to helppeople and like see them do
better.

Speaker 2 (01:41:38):
So I think that's great.
I love that you're doing this.
I think this is cool to hearfrom different people.

Speaker 1 (01:41:42):
It's fun.
It's been an education formyself, so I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:41:45):
It's a good platform for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:41:47):
Yeah, well, I appreciate it.
You and Spencer are alwayswelcome back.

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135 - Brynli Walker - Movement is Medicine

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}135 - Brynli Walker - Movement is Medicine