139 - Michael Whittaker - From Rock Bottom to Nationals

What happens when everything you've trained for collides with pain, disappointment, and comparison? This is the story of Michael Whitaker, a Division I javelin athlete who didn’t just compete with a torn UCL — he qualified for Nationals.

In this episode, we unpack what it means to keep showing up when your body is broken and your confidence is shattered. Michael reveals the brutal emotional rollercoaster of injury, the quiet discipline of recovery, and the power of refining your mental game through deliberate self-talk and sport psychology.

Whether you're an athlete, a high-performer, or someone fighting a silent battle, this conversation is a masterclass in resilience, focus, and finding meaning in the grind. We explore the mental warfare of comparison, the science of technique, and the underrated magic of getting just 1% better every day.

If you’ve ever felt like giving up, this episode is for you.

Three Key Takeaways

1. Technique matters, but consistency and mental clarity matter more. Whether you're training for javelin or just trying to improve your life, cue-bouncing — constantly changing strategies — will sabotage your progress.
2. Injury is more than physical — it’s an identity crisis. How you respond mentally during setbacks defines whether you plateau or grow. “You can’t lose if you never give up” isn’t just a quote — it’s a survival strategy.
3. Positive self-talk isn’t fluff — it’s a weapon. Learning to speak to yourself like a coach instead of a critic can shift everything when you're on the edge of quitting.

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I hope today’s episode sparked something within you to pursue your dreams and unlock your true potential. If you found value in it, consider sharing it with someone who might need that same push.

Getting After It is for those who. want to silence their self-doubt. Refuse to be owned by comfort. Understand their limits are man-made and breakable. We live in a time of constant comparison. Social media drowns us in highlight reels and overnight success stories. But what most people don’t see is the grit behind it all. The reps. The quiet mornings. The sacrifices. The failures.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
We're talking about technique.
Yeah, technique.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Technique.

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Well, jumping back into it.
Sorry, we had some technicaldifficulties.
Now the camera is back tonormal, so I apologize.
We tried, but I appreciate youbringing it.
Yeah, anyways, we were talkingabout technique, refining
technique and that kind of thing, with Javelin specifically, and

(00:26):
this might get a little allover the place because we just
stopped and can't reallyremember what we talked about.
So everyone bear with us.
But, um, in javelin, what's themost important part of the
actual technique?
Is it all in the legs or is itthe arm itself?
Like what's that?

Speaker 2 (00:39):
like you know, I actually saw a really cool quote
, um, from one of my idols inthe javelin.
His name is Thomas Roller.
He's a German thrower.
He did a question answer thingon Instagram and somebody said
the same question, like what'smore important, the upper or
lower body?
And he said beginners try tothrow harder with their upper
body and like pros.

(01:02):
Essentially he referred tohimself like at his level,
because he's like that good,best of the best yeah, he's
really good.
And he said his level ofthrowers it's all like lower
body.
And I believe that's true, right, so it's mainly lower body.
Your legs are stronger, thethrow is a reaction and your
upper body is really along forthe ride.

(01:24):
Yeah, is a reaction.
And, uh, your upper body'sreally along for the ride?
Yeah, um, it just getscomplicated because at the
amateur level, you're focusingon technique, which means you're
not doing a full run up, yeah,um.
And so you're doing standingthrows and you use your upper
body a lot in them, and sothat's where the mix-up comes.
But to answer your question,it's it's lower body is king in

(01:44):
throwing.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
That makes I feel like that's with everything.
Man like you and I.
We were just talking at dinnerlike about um.
Ali and I are facing somerunning issues.
Ali specifically, I'm doingbetter um, but like a lot of it
comes down to the technique anda lot of things that you don't
really focus on as a runner likeyou just imagine oh man, I have
to just go fast and a lot ofthat comes from the quads that's

(02:07):
what you tell yourself for,like the calves, but in reality
it's like the posterior chain.
It's like your back, yourglutes, your hip flexors, your
hamstrings, like everything thatyou wouldn't really consider is
like that's going to make me agood runner.
Sounds like it's the same forjavelin.
So what was like an averageworkout like?
Were you guys like doing squatsor whatever, like I don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Um, the routine was consistent over the years and it
was, um, about four days oflifting, and then we always
threw on tuesday and friday, ohnice, so we lifted pretty much
every day, yeah, um, and thenhad those throwing days.
So it didn't matter.
Like we, we lifted on ourthrowing days, you know.
So that was the consistency.

(02:50):
That makes sense.
Consistency adds up and it was.
You know, it was olympic liftsso like snatches, cleans,
variety of snatches, hipsnatches, snatches on a box,
high or low, like we had allkinds of stuff, you know, like
laser measurements to track thebar speed.
Really, you have to know ifyou're falling within a certain
range.
That's crazy.
That is apparently adequate formuscle improvement.

(03:13):
I don't know, that's insane.
I don't know about all thatstuff.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
They're looking at all the science at it.
That's amazing.
I've never heard out about thatcrap.
So how did you eventually endup at BYU?

Speaker 2 (03:23):
on your team.
Byu was my goal, which is cool,right, the way that it happened
was most of the time you haveto.
If you throw around 200 feet inhigh school, you'll.
I think it's a little deepernow, like maybe 205 to 210.
But 200 feet at the time youwere top 10 in the country,

(03:44):
really, or really close to it,and um.
With that being said, most ofthe schools in utah that I
wanted to attend they wouldrecruit you if you threw 200
feet, but it seemed impossibleto get in if you were below that
.
Yeah, so like I ended theseason at 195 feet dang, really
yep and then I threw 206 theweek after the season.

(04:06):
No way really, of course I waslike hitting the emails right,
because I was like I'm not inhigh school anymore, technically
, you know, but like it's a weekdifference.
Yeah, um, none of themrecruited me.
And then I went on my missionand at the last like six months
of my mission, um, it was a, itwas a variety of reaching back
out and also, um, a few reachingout to me.

(04:29):
Yeah, um, they, they likewanted me, and so it became this
game with like three or fourschools and byu was holding out
like I had I didn't have thebest act score and so I had to
take a residual one either.
Dude, yeah, it was really bad,um, and, yeah, terrible act over
the top of schools.
So, the three schools, byu, um,I want to say local right, like

(04:52):
it wasn't optional.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
I didn't want it to be optional to to go at all, to
go out, so like if I did go out,it'd be some giant school like
oregon or texas, right?

Speaker 2 (05:00):
yeah, um, but it was byu uvu and I couldn't decide
between, like, utah state anduvu and I didn't really have.
I should have then, but Ididn't have weber state like in
mind at all.
Yeah, um, yeah, I think it'sbecause they dropped me when I
threw a pr at one track me inhigh school and the coach came
up and said they weren'tinterested anymore and I was

(05:22):
really confused.
Yeah, that's weird, I justthrew better.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
But yeah, so I mean you ended up at BYU, which they
have an unbelievable track, andfield team.
So I mean, we were talkingabout that a little bit about
dinner, but what did that feellike when you got?

Speaker 2 (05:37):
it.
Oh, dude, like I still remembertexting my coach because he was
the one waiting for me to getapproved.
So he texting my coach, um,because he was the one waiting
for me to get approved, so helet me know, and, um, he just, I
can't remember exactly what hesaid anymore, but he let me know
and like I could just tell wewere both pumped and I we had
like so cool we had phones on mymission in arizona, so I
grabbed it and like chucked itat the couch and was just like

(06:00):
literally jumping let's go.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
Yeah, I was so pumped about it.
I was like, yes, I mean it'slike every kid's dream who like
gets into sports is like I wantto go play for college and then
eventually like go pro orwhatever that is, I was, I was
gonna go there in like two weeks, so it was like amazing last
second, you know, like so pumpedyeah, so like you have this
huge thing to look forward to,um, were you nervous at all?

(06:22):
because, like during yourmission, I mean two years of not
throwing right I trained on mymission okay way.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yep, here and there I trained and then they legalized
javelin in arizona, um.
So on a few p days in one areaI went with the high schoolers
and trained with them andactually probably had a really
bad elbow issue at the time thatwe can talk about later.
Yeah, but I trained a littlebit on my mission and, to answer
your question, I was pretty,pretty nervous.
Yeah, I also had like a rivalthat was going there oh man

(06:51):
we're like best friends nowthat's cool I was nervous at the
time.
You know very competitive nerves.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
Yeah, absolutely man, that's crazy.
Javelin in arizona.
Man, I'm from there and I can't.
It's gotta be hellish.
Yeah, just hot.
Oh, it's too hot yeah, way toohot that's crazy, though.
So you get off, you go to byu,and then, um yeah, how was that
like?

Speaker 2 (07:16):
byu is great, um, world-class facilities, yeah,
right, so you have everythingyou need.
Um, I had not had a recruitingtrip before, so I didn't know
where anything was, and, like mybest friend now, his, uh, he,
he was like showing me whereeverything's at.
He got recruited as a junior.
Oh nice, he's a beast man.
He's the school record holderat byu, um, state champion and

(07:39):
state record holder in utah,yeah.
So, like he had all theserecruiting trips and I didn't
get to have those cause I was alate, like I threw later than he
did.
Um, but it was great.
Experience, man, world-classtraining, world-class coaching
facilities.
Um.
What made it the best, though,is making the most of it.
Like myself, you know, that'swhat really made the experience

(07:59):
and the facility shine.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
So.
How'd you do that?
Um, um, really like.
I struggled my freshman yearlike a lot.
I had trained a little bit onmy mission.
My technique was really good.
Um, I met with a dietitian andgained like way too much weight.
I didn't feel like it was goingto hinder my throws that much,
though, because I was waystronger, yeah, from all that

(08:21):
weight does it have any drinklike muscle builder shakes or
something like that?
yeah, it was like a right.
It was straight drink theprotein.
It's straight up a bulk man.
Yeah, it was a lot.
I gained so much weight.
Um, it was like around 40pounds.
Oh dang, yeah, so significant.
Yeah, but yeah, it was.
It was I.
I thought I'd do better and Ididn't like, and part of the the

(08:42):
hurt behind that was seeing mybest friend Excel.
Yeah, cause we are neck andneck in high school and the dude
took off really like literallylike, yeah, like top top 15 in
the country, top you know fiveever at BYU, like just just
doing so well, yeah, and I waslike nothing didn't make any big
track meets any of the year.

(09:03):
That's all that matters.
In NCAA, track is going toregionals and then going to
nationals and I didn't make,obviously, even the first one.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah, so it was tough dude, I would actually love to
hear your thoughts on that,because I feel like sports is a
great way to compare yourself tosomeone else.
Yeah, like running is one ofthe worst ways.
It's just like everyone'scomparing each other to everyone
and like even when you go outon a run with your friends, um,
they're like dude, I don't wantto run with you, like you're way
too fast.

(09:33):
And I mean I was talking to youat dinner and I was like you
were telling me about the peoplewho run like two or five
marathons at BYU and I'm like Iwouldn't want to go out on a run
with them because they wouldjust smoke me, you know.
But it's like I think a lot ofthat comes from comparison.
So how'd you deal with that?
Like it's your best friend, youknow he's doing well.
You don't feel like you'redoing as good.
What was that like?

Speaker 2 (09:51):
I mean freshman year, like during when it was
happening.
I fell apart Really, yeah Right.
And cue bouncing is the worstthing you can do because you're
just going to work on somethingnew every time you take a throw
and ultimately you never getbetter.

(10:12):
When you're like not spendingtime on anything, yeah Right.
So it's like one shot, onethrow, next next.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
And you're trying something new.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
every throw, Every throw you're trying something
new, and when you take 50 throwsin practice, you tried 50 new
things and so you're never goingto learn if something actually
works or not.
You didn't make any development.
So that's what I did.
I was trying stuff that makeshim throw far.
I was just scraping foranything, so really I just lost.

(10:41):
I went off of a path ofconsistency and I was just all
over the place and it didn't.
I didn't get any better, I gotmore hurt actually from doing
that.
Yeah, I ran into big problems,like with my Achilles tendon and
like some shoulder problems,like it.
Just it didn't work, yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
That's tough man.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
Really unfocused, but you feel focused at the same
time, because you're just likescrambling.

Speaker 1 (11:03):
Yeah, and you're just like scrambling, yeah, and
you're like I'm gonna, I'm goingto figure out how to do this,
even if it takes me 50 tries.
Yep, that's tough.
So how'd you rein it back inlike reel, back in like okay?
No, I need to focus on beingconsistent again so, um it was,
there was a few things.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
Um, I feel like I lost sight of who I was.
That was the first one.
Um, that being like me who Iwas in my sport, yeah, I prided
myself on being a technician,somebody who knows technique and
knows what to do, yeah, and Irealized I had went through a
phase where a combination ofthings, including my friend's
improvement, had helped me likescramble and lose sight of

(11:42):
direction and knowing what to doand just like faith in myself,
because along with that came noimprovement, yeah, um, so I had
to like rally that back into mylife, which by the way, that's
so hard, yeah, to like train andnot see any progress.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
That's one of the most discouraging things that
I've ever dealt with myself, andI know so many other people do
especially when you're doingyour absolute best yeah it's so
discouraging, trying as hard asyou can, but there's so many
lessons that you learned duringthat time.
Um, but yeah, so you lost sightof yourself and, sorry, I
interrupted you.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
No, no, it was good.
Yeah, it's definitely one ofthe most discouraging things
ever when that happens.
Um, so, along with that, I Ikind of had to sit myself down
and just realize who I was andwhat got me there.
Yeah, you know, because, like Iwent from so much improvement
in one year, come off my missionzero.
Yeah, and I was like, is this ame problem?

(12:36):
Right, like there's no way.
If I was coaching someone in mysituation, I wouldn't know how
to help them.
Someone in my situation, Iwouldn't know how to help them.
So, with that in mind, um, mymind became a little more like,
closer to the path, and then Igot recommended from one of my
friends, um, at BYU, Um, she's.
She became a national championlater.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
Um, but she told me in Javelin Yep, oh nice.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
Um, great training partner, by the way, right next
to a national champion.
Yeah, that's insane.
But Craig Manning is a sportspsychologist there and he's
helped with, like some of thebest ever, like he's done sports
psychology for the miami heatwhen, like, lebron, was there.
That's rad.
He's steph curry, like he'srenowned for his principles what
does a sports psychologist do?
I don't think I even know um heobviously he just taught us

(13:23):
about like the just sportspsychology, like the verbiage
behind it and like what?
it is general topics aboutneurology, what happens to your
brain when you say a certain way, like when you're speaking
positive and stuff.
But the thing that stuck sticksout about his class is how you
apply those things.
Interesting, and that is a bookthat he has called the fearless
mind and it a journal comeswith that and it there's a

(13:47):
certain order that you shouldlive by, according to him, when
you practice.
So the book would say objectiveum.
So if I wanted to throw like acertain distance or like achieve
a certain type of technique, Iwas looking for yeah, or lift a
certain weight, I would write iton the objective um, and it's

(14:07):
been a while now, but um, andthen you would write three um
cues on how to get there.
So, and they had to be two tothree words at the most for me,
I liked one to two, yeah, sokeep it simple.
Yep, if I was doing a powerclean, um, I'd be like, okay, if
I want to lift 300 pounds, likewhat's going to get me there?

(14:29):
And I was like, okay, excuse me, okay.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
Um.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
I do better when my hands are narrow.
So that's step one narrow, um,and then pull right up to my hip
.
So like, as a lot of peopleknow, know, like if you go away
from your body, it's not wayharder gonna pan out.
Yeah, it's way harder that justthat cue helped me stay really
close to my body and have areally linear movement.
Um, so that, and then like keepthat movement after I pop my

(14:56):
hips on the bar.
So and shrug, so I would.
I'd think that, and as you gothrough those three things that
are simple, um, you only thinkof one thing that you can do
better Of those three.
Yep.
So, like a lot of people,there's so much to fix, so much.
You can pick out 50 thingsanytime you do something.
And that's where Q bouncinghappens.

(15:18):
Right, it's like your brain islike trying to fix it and so you
think of a hundred ways to andyou have to keep that narrow.
And so it would be like theseare the three things you're
sticking to and you wrote themdown, and then you don't even
think about what to do betteruntil after, right, so you
wouldn't even write in thatsegment until after you're done

(15:39):
and be like what's one thing youwould have changed?
Yeah, and it helps you notthink of all that, right, and he
had some other things in therefor evaluation, like what was
your anxiety level or yourhappiness level, motivation
level, because all thatinfluences performance.
So that makes sense.
But those were the main oneswas like what three things are
you going to work on, and thenwhat's one takeaway instead of

(16:00):
like 50?

Speaker 1 (16:01):
yeah, yeah.
So do you remember the firstthing you focused on with um,
like trying to improve your yourjavelin throw?

Speaker 2 (16:08):
I do, um, it's really hard to explain, but it was, um
, something to do with my hipmovement.
Okay, um, I just in throwing.
I believe that a lot of people,as they become more of a
veteran, there are certainthings that they do that always
make them throw far and um, andthey can fall back to them all

(16:31):
the time.
So anytime I got into a slump,there was like two or three
things that I was like I'm notdoing that, like, yeah, when I
do those, I'm gonna be back,yeah, you know, and then we can
continue with the improvement.
Um, so for me it was like itwas a hip function issue, that I
was like I totally lost sightof that, cause I was trying this
and this and this, yeah, sothat was what one of them was
for me.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
I think that's, yeah, that's huge man Like I do that
all the time I know there'sother people out there who do
that all the time Like somethinggoes wrong and you, your
brain's really good at it ofbeing like, okay, here's
everything that I could be doingbetter, yeah, and instead it's
like okay, well, out of thosethings, like I don't know, you
could say 50 things, whatever itis, which one's the most

(17:11):
important and which one deservesmy attention right now.
Like I think that's theexercise that a lot of people
need to focus on, because itsounds like you sat down and
actually thought through it.
Um, and a lot of times, I think, people who don't know what the
next step is like for whatevergoal they're pursuing, or like
how to improve whether it's likethe piano or running or javelin
, like doesn't matter, if you'retrying to improve a skill like

(17:33):
what's the next thing that youcould do now to improve your
form or just help you master thetechnique and it takes a lot of
self-reflection.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
It does.
So, yeah, one thing that likehelped me with that yeah, um was
two quotes that I like foreverlive by um.
One of them is you can't loseif you never give up.
I love that.
That's huge, because, likethat's how I feel about my
career.
I never gave up and I did well,even though I was like.
It's been like a year and ahalf since I competed and I

(18:03):
still don't sit well with how Idid, even though I'm like, even
though I'm like I can't believe,like when I step out of that
mindset, I'm like I can'tbelieve what I did, like the
younger me would have like criedto do what I did and then, um,
one percent better mindset, likethat's a popular one, yeah, but
, dude, like there's alwayssomething you can do better
always even if that's likerecognizing you need like a

(18:26):
little bit of rest, yeah, likethat is your leverage.
Yeah, you know, having that kindof mindset yeah, have you read
atomic habits?

Speaker 1 (18:33):
yeah atomic habits.
Yeah, james clear talked aboutthat with the uh, the british
cycling team.
Like they just focused ongetting one percent better every
single day and like it doesn'tseem big in the moment but over
time that's going to compoundand soon enough, like you will
be a different player in thesport or a different human, like
if it's your professionalcareer and I love that one
percent better thing.
But yeah, that's huge and wecan do that in all aspects of

(18:58):
life.
But like fitness is a great wayto do it.
Like if you're running intoinjuries or anything like that,
figure out where you can get onepercent better.
If it's your form, if it's yourrest, like you said, if it's
your diet, like just try andnail that down a little bit.
Yeah, but I I also love thatfirst, quick, can you say that
again?
You can't lose if you nevergive up.
Yeah, that's huge.
That's um.

(19:19):
My friend brayden was just onthe podcast and he he's a runner
, like he's 31 years old I hopeI got that right, braden, my bad
um, but he told this quotewhere he's like his.
You know he he was a littlescared that you know he might
leave, live a stagnant life andthen he like started getting
into running and all thesethings and, um, like he had this

(19:41):
whole pressure on him to liketry and go as fast as he can and
that kind of thing.
And he was in Buffalo, new York, running with his friend.
He was pacing his friend, liketrying to get him to get a
certain time, and he recognizedlike they weren't on track to
get the time that his friendwanted and so he was like trying
to motivate him like come on,like let's go, like we can still

(20:03):
do it if you just push a littleharder.
And his friend looked at him andsaid, hey, failure is fine,
quitting is not an option.
And it's like the same kind ofthing.
I love that.
It's like it doesn't matter if,you know, you mess up a little
bit or like you didn't get thegoal time you wanted.
It's like the important thingis you don't quit, like to
yourself or to the commitmentthat you made.
So that's huge.
I love that quote.

(20:23):
I'm gonna have to write thatone down.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
Yeah, that's what I should do with this wall is
write everyone's quotes down,that'd be sweet, all the elite
quotes that come through fromyour podcast.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
That'd be cool man That'd be, awesome, that's huge.
Yeah, I mean that mindset ofjust not quitting Um.
So yeah, I mean, how did it gofrom there?

Speaker 2 (20:40):
Uh, from there much better, Um, in one month.
I which this is significant, injavelin, by the way but in one
month I made a 15 footimprovement.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
I was going to ask about that Like, what's the
distance?
Um, like what's, if someonewants to improve their distance
or their throw distance, likewhat's an average?
Okay, I worked super hard on it.
How much further am I going toget Right?

Speaker 2 (21:03):
Um, if that makes sense.
That's where coaching getsreally important, because, um
and you'll learn more about thishere in a second but like I
have been through almost everystyle of technique and like
which helps me to understandeveryone else's throw a lot
better.
Yeah, and with that, like Iknow like a range that people

(21:25):
would genuine or generallybenefit from from a certain
aspect they adopt, yeah, fromtheir new technique.
Um, to answer your question,though, like what's a respectful
distance?
Um, really like at the amateurlevel, like in high school, what
I did was really outstanding.
Yeah, like 200 feet.
Yeah, top 10 in the country anddouble the distance, like that's

(21:48):
insane, but in the amateurlevel you should.
I don't know what the rangesare.
They could be explosive, iswhat I'm saying.
But when you get up to um, likethere's certain thresholds
after that that you'll see.
At like the collegiate leveland professional, yeah, we're
like and we think in metersinstead of feet then, but like
60 meters, um, that's like 200feet.

(22:09):
So in high school, that'soutstanding um.
In college, a lot of peoplethrow 60 to 62 um less will
throw 64, 64 to 65 meters,there's less.
But like a good chunk of thecountry will like, at that level
, be throwing and never get pastthat.
66 to 67 is totally different.

(22:33):
Yeah, way less people throwover that distance like olympian
level.
No, olympian is like way pastthat really just for like an
auto mark at the olympics you'rethrowing like, uh, you know,
like 84, 85, oh my gosh.
Yeah, so like, show us how muchbetter they are, even than like
collegiate.
Yeah, like d1 athletes, youknow, and d2, d2 is really good,
now that's amazing.

(22:54):
Um, but yeah, there's thesethresholds where you'll just see
it thin out essentially, and soyou have to kind of go from
there.
You never know at a certainlevel, like how much you're
improve, and you really justhave to kind of know that you'll
improve if you do this certainthing Right.
So how did you see yoursimprove?
The way I saw my improve, itwas about two and a half three

(23:15):
meters a year, which is stilloutstanding.
That's like 10 to 12 feet ayear.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
So I would work on things and I expected way more
than that, but that's what Iended up getting out of it.
And then, like, injuries rolledin, you know, and then that
changes everything, especiallylike when you're hurt during a
season and there is a timecrunch, yeah, like you can't
rest for three months and thenthe season's gone by.
It doesn't work, you know, andthen a year has gone by, right,

(23:43):
so it's way different in thatsense.
Um, and the game changes there.
But um, yeah, after my junioryear I didn't improve because of
injuries yeah, yeah, that'stough man.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
Injuries are the most like.
We talked a little bit aboutlike comparison, but injuries
are the most discouraging thing.
So take back what I saidearlier, like that is that is
the worst feeling, and like I'vehad very minor injuries with
running, but even when they comeup, it's like I just get
frustrated.
When it's like I know what Ican do, but because of whatever

(24:16):
happened, like I can't anymore.
Yeah, and yeah, we were talkinga little bit like you've told
me some of your injuries.
Um, walk me through the firstone.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
Yep, uh, first one was a meniscus.
This was the the the lightestone.
Okay, like it was light, itreally was was light.
It was like you walk out thesame day on the hospital on the
leg, oh really yeah, and it'snot like normal walking, like
you're totally hobbling and likebarely putting pressure on it,
but still.
But it was a four-week recovery, which I think because it was

(24:50):
on the inside part of my kneethat I rotate, rotate inwards
when I throw it was a littleabout four months instead of
four weeks because, like, I wasphysically turning, like my
joint, in that direction.
Oh, um, so it was like three orfour months, but that one was
light.
And then, um, that same year,like I tore my ucl, which so on
the elbow for those of you thatdon't know, um, that's like your

(25:13):
acl of your elbow, geez right,and that's a, that's a massive
how does that happen?
and, um, really, just from theway that your arms rose yep,
like it's known as tommy john inthe baseball world okay, yeah
so it's like very famous.
It's just that overheadmovement and like all the
pressure, like that's anotherthing you have to deal with.
When you get better, you, yourbody's more powerful, but you

(25:35):
have the same joints interestingyeah, and so like all that
power, like if you don't throwcorrectly or if you overuse, um,
it's gonna play a massive rolein how those get hurt.
Yeah, and at between my kneesurgery and my elbow surgery, I
had learned a whole lot andgotten way better.

(25:56):
Yeah, and so I did not see thatone coming.
Yeah, and like at all I, I cameoff the track meet of my life
and then in practice I was justwarming up and we call them
pickers.
It's just when you're throwingit in the ground 10 feet in
front of you when you startwarming up.
I tore it on one of those.
Like really, I had no clue itwas gonna tear.

(26:17):
Yeah, geez man, like seriously,it was the strangest thing and
devastating obviously just thelittle things.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
Yep man, so that takes you out for the season.

Speaker 2 (26:26):
Um, at that point in the season, um, it was smarter
to finish through, okay, becauseI couldn't get my year back,
like get a red shirt involved.
It was too deep.
It was like at the end of theseason, okay, and so it was more
optimal to um throw throughthat pain and try to qualify for
nationals at regionals, yeah,and then um get the surgery,

(26:50):
like right after the season andprepare for the next year.
Was it pretty painful, waypainful oh yeah every throw,
it's just like very, very muchpain, yeah, very much, yeah, so
much pain, like for for peoplethat don't know um, when you
tear it, you will.
It's like your nerve, yourulnar nerves, right there, and
so it will shock all the way upto like your ring, pinky finger,

(27:11):
um, and for me it was like theshock.
Every time I threw it feelslike lightning going through
your arm.
Yeah, and on top of that, likemy, my hand was like completely
numb oh, so it felt all the timeyeah, you know, like when your
hand's asleep and it feels likeweird.
Yeah, when it's like recoveringfrom that, like when it's waking
up, you get those tingles, it'slike that, but they're like

(27:33):
they hurt though.
Oh geez so it was.
It was really painful.
That's all I'm trying to say.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
Dude, that's horrible yeah, yeah, I would.
Yeah, man, that's impressive.
And how long was that when youplayed or when, you like, threw
during that time?
How long of a time period um,it was april to july.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
Wow, actually a long ways, because at that point in
the season you qualify for meets, yeah, and then the only way to
keep throwing is to qualify outof that meet for another one.
And I was at a high enough,high enough level that I kept
qualifying for meets, yeah, andso I kept getting pushed out
further and further dang.
So you're.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
You're still qualifying like even though
you're injured.
Yeah, yeah, that's prettybadass dude.
I gotta say that's legit.
Well, that's what it's gogginsman, you get some goggins
javelin goggins.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yeah, javelin goggins .
Yeah, dude, it was.
I'm very proud of it.
Like I look back at that and Idon't know how I did that that's
insane, and so you get thesurgery afterwards.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
Yeah, um, were you worried during that time, like
since you had a little bit oftime to recover?
How long does it take for tommyjohns?

Speaker 2 (28:36):
oh it's.
I've seen people go lightningfast and that's like eight
months, eight months, lightningfast, but man, that is like the
1% dude.
Yeah, like I was talking to anelite thrower out there about
this, because he went throughthe surgery and I had some
concerns post-surgery about howthings were feeling and he was
telling me it's like the rule ofthe thirds.

(28:56):
It's like a third of the peopleare going to go really fast in
their recovery, a third arenormal and a third are really
slow.
And for me, since I've had ittwice I've had the surgery twice
now I'm learning that for thefirst half of the surgery I'm in
the first, like the fast thirds, and then it's very normal
after that, and then it actuallygoes slow.

(29:18):
So I like hit every category.
So that's why I was reachingout to him though, cause I was
doing stuff that, in a healthyway, I wasn't able to do at like
three, four months.

Speaker 1 (29:28):
Yeah, yeah, so what was recovery like?
Like what was your protocol?
Did you have a?

Speaker 2 (29:36):
like I don't know, um , um exercise that you did all
the time or what was that?
Like six weeks in a cast andthen, um, after they take the
cast out, I mean your arm.
I'm sure, like other surgeriesare the same, yeah, like an acl
and stuff, but it's likenoticeably weak it's tiny yeah
it's tiny, it has no strength,like I remember like being in
the cast still and like a bigsuccess is like being able to

(29:57):
move your fingers.
Really yep, because like whatthey do is they take a tendon
from your forearm called thepalmaris and they put that for
your new ucl.
That's insane, right.
And so, yeah, your fingers arelike really wrecked from that
because the tendon's up by yourhand, yeah, to your wrist, and
does it not affect your handmovement that does a little bit

(30:19):
not hardly noticeable thoughlike mostly strength.
Okay, like the recovery and allthat from um.
Yeah, so a lot of that whenyou're out of the cast is basic,
like moving your fingers, yeah,like that's literally an
exercise.
We're like moving, rolling yourwrist and for a certain amount
of time of day and then theygive you like a squeeze ball,
like with a certain like weightto it, and then, um, yeah, it

(30:42):
just graduates there slowly tolike banded work and then weight
lifting and then very slowlyover time like into throwing
movements, yeah, yeah did youmake that like your new training
be like okay, I'm gonna try andget back as soon as I can,
because I've heard a lot ofpeople do that.

Speaker 1 (30:57):
Like when they do get injured, um, they make it their
goal to just focus on therecovery piece and be like I'm
gonna do all my pt exercises andthey just get hyper focused on
that.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
so going into my senior year I realized I could
not do that because I needed abalance at the level I was at to
still make an improvement.
Cause the question now is 12months is a month, 12 months at
my recovery is one month beforeseason starts, oh wow, so you
have to.

(31:29):
I had to take myself back andkind of just be like how am I
going to get better withoutthrowing yeah?

Speaker 1 (31:37):
that's tough.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
And knowing that I'm better Right.
So it becomes a mental game.
It becomes way more strategyand planning and focusing on
being well-rounded.
So, of course, arm recovery.
But a whole lot of it wastotally based on, like
athleticism, how in shape youare, what's your body weight

(31:58):
strength ratio?
Like yeah, is that bar in theweightlifting like we talked
about earlier, really movingfaster in your hand cleans?
Um, like all those othervariables, mobility, flexibility
, everything.
So it became in a culminationof like all things yeah, just
that, just that's crazy man.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
Yeah, um, the mental battle piece.
That's one thing I definitelywant to focus on for a second.
Like that's like we talkedabout, like this discouragement
and everything like that.
Like I can't imagine how that'sdifficult, but how'd you make a
plan and be like, how'd youkeep a positive attitude during
that time?
I guess is what I'm asking.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
Well, you mentioned earlier that, like when you're
hurt I can't remember exactlywhat you said, but you said
something along the lines ofwhen you're hurt, it makes you
discouraged because you're notdoing what you thought you could
, right, right.
So I'm a huge believer, like inGod, yeah, and I think there is
opposition in everything, andso it's like it's good or bad,

(32:55):
yeah, and that includes likeyour mental, like what's, what's
in your head, what, even ifit's your own conscience,
whatever.
So when you have a goodthoughts like that and you're
you know you can envisionyourself doing something cool,
or you just you get motivatedoff of something you know you
can do.
You have to hold on to that.
You have to.

(33:15):
I feel like those are put, thoseare in the good category and
God gave you that for a reason,right, and that doesn't mean you
can, you're going to do that,but I think there's learning and
edges, all those things likeinvolved as well.
So like, for example, I alwaysthought I could throw a certain
distance.
Maybe I can, but I thought Icould in college and I didn't

(33:45):
but me remembering that andsitting down and making plans to
make sure that happens, yeah,um, taught me so much along the
ways and it gave me that drive.
Yeah, even on the worst days,right, yeah, like you have to
pull something out?
Yeah, absolutely One percenthas to come somewhere.

Speaker 1 (33:57):
Right, yeah, I love that man.
Man, you're saying so many goodthings.
I actually wrote an article onmy website today about hope in
the dark days.
Like it's crucial to have that.
Like you have to envisionsomething for yourself when
you're in the lowest of the lows.
You have to hope for a betterfuture, because otherwise it's

(34:19):
just like that self-talk becomesmore and more negative over
time.
Yeah, you start not believingthat you can come back and make
a comeback to where you were.
You just imagine your life'sgoing to be miserable.
Like I told you a little bitabout, like when I was sick
upstairs and there were a lot oftimes when it was like doctors

(34:39):
told me I was dying, like theytold me I might have leukemia
and, um, we had no idea what wasgoing on for two years, and it
was like uncertainty afteruncertainty, and I just remember
I was like you know I have thatsame belief in God Like there
has to be something good fromthis that I can at least learn.
And just held on to that hopefor, like the future will be

(35:03):
better and it depends on, like,how I focus on it, like I can
make it um, and it sounds socliche and it sounds really
cheesy and corny, but it's likeI can.
I can make it the future I wantit to be if I make the right
decisions and like focus on theright things.
Um, but it really is true andit's like you had two choices

(35:24):
and it was I'm going to selfpity and just be mad that I'm.
I'm injured, like right beforemy senior year, your senior year
or I'm going to make the mostof it.
I'm going to get 1% better inall these different areas and
become the best javelin throwerI can be, and then also just
best person, because you havethe option to always give in

(35:47):
when you face these challenges,you face these trials and the
important thing is just to keepgoing.
Like your quote, you know, it'slike just don't quit.

Speaker 2 (35:58):
Like keep going.
I heard something else recentlyI can't remember who it was.
It was just like a reel onInstagram, yeah, but they said
they feel like they don't thinkhappiness is real.
They think happiness comes fromwhen they're proud of
themselves and the whole pitchwas just that like they like
hard work and that's how theyfeel happiness.

(36:21):
They don't just like wake upand they're just like happy.
Yeah, um, and it made me thinkof those days, because when
you're like in the pits, thatbad, like the tiniest thing you
do can feel like a pretty bigwin, absolutely you know like
you have a surgery or you're,like, hospitalized, like you're
in a hospital bed, you know,like the tiniest thing can make
you feel like you can do itagain.
Yeah, and like, when you're thatdeep in the trenches, I guess,
like that's really what you'relooking for.

(36:42):
That's why one percent is, like, so important.
That's why never giving up,like will always help you win,
because, like, it's not aboutthe wind that you picture in
your head.
Yeah, you'll realize over timethat it's just like you just won
all the time.
Yeah, you know, because youwere doing it.
Absolutely you know what I mean.
So that's what it's reallyimpactful for me 100.

Speaker 1 (37:04):
It's like can you, can you be proud of the work
that you did on this day, orwhatever.
It is like can you be proud ofwhat you did?
And if the answer is yes, likeusually, you will feel better.
Yeah, um, if you gave it all,you had what you did.
And if the answer is yes, likeusually, you will feel better.
Yeah, if you gave it all youhad, if you did your best, then
you should be proud of yourselffor that.
Like obviously don't gogloating around and being like,

(37:25):
oh yeah, I did this, but like beproud that you're trying to get
better and like you're tryingto progress.
It sounds like you adapted thata hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
Yeah, a lot of times, with the injury, injuries you
have to like in my scenario,when there's a deadline, like
the season doesn't change, yeah,right, it's a little different.
Just because you're like I'mhurt, I'm not hurt enough to get
a red shirt and not competethis year, right, how do I still
get better when I'm hurt?
Yeah, because, like, so muchcomes into play and just because

(37:57):
your body's hurting, you'reworse and there is always
something you can do.
Yeah, always to get better.
And like I didn't improve afterI threw my pr my junior year.
But I look back and like, evenafter I got hurt the last end of
that season yeah, almost everymeet, I'll still almost throwing
my pr the last end of thatseason.
Yeah, almost every meet, I'llstill almost throwing my PR,

(38:18):
like with like it was, it justhurts so much to throw.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
Okay, you know like it hurts.

Speaker 2 (38:22):
so much to throw the torn UCL for me and um same with
like the the next year Cause Itoured again Right and so like
that's how my senior year went,yeah, but again it's like it's a
senior year and it's over.
Like what are you going to doabout it?
Right, are you going to juststop and have a surgery that you
know you have to get?
Yeah, or you know, could youjust do the same thing you did
last time and have the same,like it was literally copy and

(38:43):
paste the same.
So did the pain increase or wasit just like uh?
this time it actually hurt moreum I had other issues this time
that popped through like it feltlike my arm was going to fall
off this time.
And so there's pictures of methrowing like in my last meet
and I have like tape everywhere,like that KT tape is everywhere
on my arm.
I have like stretchy tape fromthe trainers and like an arm

(39:04):
sleeve.
It's just ridiculous, butthat's brutal man yeah.
Making sure you still compete ata high level is possible even
when you're hurt.
Yeah, um, depending on yourscenario.
By the way, I don't know, likeif you break your leg, that's
totally different.

Speaker 1 (39:17):
That's true, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
Like if you're a runner and you break your leg.
Yeah, you probably can't dothat, but I mean like you know
what I mean 100%.
Like within, being smart, likeobviously like yes, your
situation was I had to get thesurgery.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
Yeah, so it's like if someone's out there and they
tear their ACL or they, you know, pop their meniscus.
I don't know what the term isTear it.
Um, I wouldn't advise you to goout and run.
I would say get that fixed andthen maybe talk about running.
But like, yeah, that's likefirst step in that scenario and
I mean, yours is also differentbecause you were Like it's
college, but that's.

(39:53):
I just love that mindset.
It's like can you push just alittle bit further?
Can you hold on?
Can you fight?
Because I guarantee you like Ihope I'm not speaking for you,
but I can assume that you hadthese thoughts Like your body
was probably like stop, oh yeah,like stop doing this to me,
because I've had those thoughtson like a run, and a run like
that I'm not injured on it's runand a run like that I'm not

(40:17):
injured on it's.
Like my body's just likegetting beat up.
You know, I'm going up thatmountain.
That's three miles of just pureelevation gain that I was
telling you about it's like thisis pure suck.
Like this, this sucks.
It's horrible, um, but a lot oftimes it's like we just talk
ourselves out of it because it'suncomfortable, and so it's like
pushing past that discomfortand that's how you get one
percent better.
I can't imagine the mentallessons you learned during that

(40:38):
time oh, huge.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
I feel like running is like a big mental experience
too, like yeah, I haven't rannearly as much as you like.
I told you like my record is inone in one go is like a 10k.

Speaker 1 (40:50):
But well, to be fair, like if I threw a javelin, it
would probably go 10 feet.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
So sure okay, yeah, probably throw further than that
bro.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
But the hard part about javelin is the cue
bouncing like I talked about,yeah, and then learning how to
come back from that.
But the reason that happens isbecause technique is so
important that you couldlegitimately do one thing
different and throw like 30 feetfurther, like that's a real
possibility.
There's people that hit randomthrows that go 30 to 40 feet

(41:22):
further than ever before andthey never figured it out for
the rest of their career Really,and so you can see how that
would mess with you.
Yeah, right, how did I do that?
Yeah, that's insane.
And then it's obviously thatit's technique, and then cue
bouncing and like all theseother things.
But, yeah, making a plan and notmaking sure like you know how
to come out of those states,because I think, like you said
earlier, a lot of people don'tknow what to do.

(41:43):
Yeah, like how to move forward,and that includes like with a
mental spiral, you know, or justhow to think positive and when?
Right, you know, because whenyou're running up a hill, hill,
I'm sure, like it's obvious thatit's positive if you push
through, yeah, 100, but the lastthing you want to do is do that
absolutely you know what I?

Speaker 1 (42:04):
mean like, no matter what happens, anytime I finish
run, I'm always proud of what Idid because, like it's a
conversation with discomfortevery single time.
Yeah, and when I give into thatI feel terrible.
Like, if I'm, if I'm like,going on a run, I'm like, okay,
I'm done, like, and I only getthree miles or something, like I
feel bad the rest of the dayand usually I end up running at

(42:26):
nighttime just like get themback, yeah, um.
But if I do, to your point,like push through a little bit,
I'm always like, okay, like I'veearned my suffering for today,
like I'm, I'm good to go, um.
But it really is just mental,like, yeah, you need the legs,
you need the strength there, butat the end of the day it's like
, can you push?
Yep, and yeah, I mean it's just.

(42:47):
It sounds like it's the same injavelin it is.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
Yeah, it's just throwing instead of running like
it's just a mental.
It's really hard to do.
All the time.
It's a conversation withdiscomfort every time.
Yeah and um, like with the craigmanning class again like
something he's huge on are twothings.
One is focusing on what to doand what not to do instead of
what not not to do what.
Focus on what to do and not andnot what not to do.

(43:13):
Sorry, that's like hard for meto think through.
Right, yeah, it sounds likesomething.
You're good dude, but, um,that's really important and
that's his whole thing with.
Like the three focus on threethings two to three things, yeah
, and never about what you canfix until after, because you're
just hyper focused on what to do.
Another one that he talkedabout in a podcast, actually
with sam taggart, when, likeyears ago, 10 years ago, he said

(43:36):
he didn't even realize that,like until you look deep into
the neuroscience yet that youcan yell at yourself in your
head and that and so like, whenyou're having those mental
thoughts like so you startthinking of people like David
Goggins and stuff.
Like when he gets into thatheadspace where he's yelling at
himself, it's because he'strying to, he's trying to
overcome the voice in his headthat doesn't want to do it and,

(43:58):
like he said that before andit's it's a true thing, like
when I made it to nationals-yeah like my arm was killing me
and you had to place top 12 atthat meet, which is incredibly
hard to do without, even with anintact arm right, because, like
my pr would have barely made itright, and so I was like I have
to perform my best to make thishappen, um, with a pressure on

(44:21):
you yeah, a lot of pressure, andI was doing terrible because my
arm hurt, right and so.
But I remembered like those twothings he said focus on what to
do instead of not what not to do.
And, um, I started I had theseterrible thoughts right like,
like dude, your arm hurts, likeyou're good, like you've had a
good season, you know.
And I'm like what am I talkingabout?

(44:44):
And so I started yelling atmyself in my head and then
eventually, like out loudactually which is really awkward
because, like people heard it,I was like pacing on the side,
yelling at myself on what to do,and a lot of that was just
affirming myself the things thatmake me throw far.
Like for me, when I stay overmy hips, I throw really far,
yeah, and that's explanation foranother time.

(45:05):
But I'll just keep saying, likeI have a good hip, yeah, I have
a good hip like over and overand over, until all the noise is
blocked out.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
Yeah, someone on the sidelines is like he does have a
great hip.
Yeah, like dang, look at thatguy.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
There were like a few comments from like the athletes
later that were like that wasgood hit man, yeah Great.
But ultimately, like as soon asI stepped in the back of the
runway, I was so focused becauseall I cared about for like 10

(45:39):
minutes before that was what todo and what makes me great and I
had, like as soon as it left myhand, I knew I was qualified.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
I knew as soon as I like, didn't even have to watch
it land.

Speaker 2 (45:43):
I did, of course, yeah, yeah, like it's so
powerful, and like my arm painwasn't in my head, yeah, like
none of that was going throughmy head anymore, because all I
cared about was what makes megreat and what to do, and yeah,
anyways, it was just a wonderfulexperience.
But those two things that CraigManning teaches is incredibly
vital to performance, and soyell at yourself, you know if

(46:05):
you have to like it's helpful.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
Yeah, I mean a couple of things on it like that's
amazing and it goes to show that, like the consistency and the
discipline that you had withJavelin paid off in the end
because your body kind of justwent into a flow state.
It was like I know what to dohere.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
Gets you in the zone.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
Yeah, it gets you in the zone, but the yelling piece
it can make or break you.
I used to have a really bad,negative self-talk before Allie
and I got married.
She helped me a ton with it,but I would be like you piece of
shit, you're the worst, lift upthat heavy weight and stuff

(46:43):
like that and I would get mad atmyself all the time and it was
really bad and it wasself-defeating and I would
listen to that really bad.
But now it's shifted to thepoint where it's like you can do
this like you've done thisbefore.
Do it again.
Do it again like you havestrong legs, they're long, you
can go up a mountain, whatever.
Do it again like and it ispowerful and it sounds like you

(47:06):
know it's that self help thingthat you know sounds everyone
talks about.
Is like be your own bestcheerleader, but that's a
principle like everyone shouldlive by.
Is like if you've done the work, if you know that you've done
everything that's gotten you tothis point, like and you've done
it correctly, then be confidentin it.
Like the confidence comes fromdoing hard things and doing them

(47:30):
repeatedly and um, yeah, I mean, I think that's exactly what
you explained, but on that pieceof that reminded me of david
david goggin story.
I'll tell you real quick.
But um so, haynes TruettHaynes' dad.
He was talking about how he ranone of his first ultra marathons
and David Goggins ran with him.

(47:50):
And Cameron Haynes makes it tothe top of this hill and he's
struggling the whole time andit's raining and he's freezing.
So he's just talking about howthe conditions were just the
worst.
And he makes it to the top ofthe hill and there's a camera
guy up there and he's like hey,have you seen David?
Like I haven't seen him.
And the camera guy goes yeah,he just ran up the hill His

(48:12):
shirt off, he ran like it wasnothing and he was screaming to
himself they don't know you son,they don't know you son.
And the camera's like doingthat same thing you talked about
.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
That's him, man, yeah .

Speaker 1 (48:26):
They don't know him and he's going to prove that,
but it's just like he'smotivated himself during that
time and that's a powerfulconcept to learn.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
Yeah, it's huge it is .
Yeah, like in that moment Iliterally remember because I
prepared.
Maybe I shouldn't have donethis hindsight, but like I
prepared myself for that exactmoment the whole year, every
week.
So like, because, like I knewhow far I was throwing and how
far it takes to make it tonationals, yeah, and so I was

(48:56):
like I and you get half theamount of throws at regionals,
so it's way harder to qualifydang.
So I was like preparing myselfevery week, every wednesday, I'd
go into our annex and it wasjust me at that time and I'll
talk to myself and I rememberfeeling weird about it at first
because, like, verbal self-talkis even more powerful.

(49:19):
Yeah, you know, like whatgoggins was doing, like it just
gets you there in the zone but Iprepared for that moment and I
pictured in my mind as beinglike a last throw situation,
because I know everyonestruggles when it's like this is
the last chance, you know allthe pressure's on yeah, all the
pressure, and maybe I manifestedthat into reality to be the
last throw, but anyways I wasprepared to to speak to myself

(49:44):
in that moment and that's whatmade it so, I think, so
beneficial Just to know, likebecause I've done it every
Wednesday the whole season, thatI can get in that headspace
when I really need to and Ireally needed to.
In that moment I was in a lotof pain, a lot of pressure, like
almost nobody gets a shot to goto nationals in their whole

(50:05):
career and so that was a bigmoment for me and man.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
The reps add up over time they do.
Yeah, it's huge.
So what was nationals like?

Speaker 2 (50:14):
nationals was painful as well.
That kind of seems like thesimilar story we, we showed up
and, um, I still did pretty good.
Yeah, it wasn't like aspectacular performance, like
the regional how many people areat nationals?
Um, only 24 dang, okay, so it'stop 24 in the country that go

(50:36):
holy cow.
Um, yeah, it was a greatexperience.
It was surreal.
Yeah, like that's, it was agreat experience.
It was surreal.
Yeah, like that's not, likethere's people, man, like it's
just so hard to make it.

Speaker 1 (50:48):
I can imagine.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
Especially when you're like right in the
distance threshold that I was.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
I mean, dude, you're talking about 24 people out of
the entire nation.
Yeah, and a lot of those guyslike make it every year you know
just because, like they'rethrowing much further.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
And so you can always count on certain people, but,
like that bottom half, like it's12 people that do make it, from
the east and west.
Yeah, and the west side that Iwas on it's always like the
bottom, like like seven or eightto twelve.
Yeah, that fluctuate and so youlike never know if you're in
that range, if you're gonna makeit.
So, um, was that intimidating?

(51:21):
Yeah, way intimidating.
Yeah, I would lose it.
I think it was too surreal ofan experience to be there,
though really it was hard tofocus because I had worked so
hard to get there.
Yeah, like I was just like kindof my, my mind was at ease,
yeah, and I it was really hardto like have that grit and focus
because I had spent so muchmental energy just to get there

(51:43):
yeah, that I relaxed when I madeit.
That's so cool.
It was cool.
So yeah, and dude, like I waspretty done with the season by
then, yeah, Like my arm waskilling me, I can imagine.
So I went out and threw as hardas I could and then was mad
about it, like at every singlemeet, yeah, and just went out

(52:09):
though, yeah, couldn't believeit.
That's awesome, man.

Speaker 1 (52:10):
yeah, I mean, imagine like what a high school michael
would have said, oh yeah, Iwould have cried, yeah, yeah,
even like I mentioned thatearlier.
But like I for sure would havecried if I could.
100, if you saw, like thejourney that you were going to
go on, but that that only camefrom showing up, being
consistent, being disciplined,learning and like focusing on
what you could tweak, and stufflike that.
That's, that's amazing.
What a cool story.
A cool story Like that's evenduring injury, dude, yeah, like
not a lot of people do that.
Pain is something everyone wantsto avoid.
Um, but like I don't know, Italk about this concept of

(52:36):
unchosen versus chosen suffering, and unchosen suffering is
obviously like what life throwsat you, so like if a loved one
gets sick or like you lose yourjob, things that are really hard
to deal with.
But chosen suffering is I'mgoing to go and I'm going to
work hard in the gym, or likeI'm going to focus hard and do
all I can to get better atjavelin, and it's like putting

(52:57):
yourself in uncomfortable anddifficult situations.
So when those times come up,it's like you know, I know how
to get through hard things.
This is not great, but at leastI can do it and, um, like
that's a huge thing.
It's like people just trying toavoid pain, the fact that you

(53:17):
leaned into it, and you're likehey, I only have I got nationals
left.
I'm going to give it my bestshot.
I'll get the surgery when I'mdone, but I don't care until
then.
That's amazing man.
It's freaking cool.
Thank you, appreciate that.
Yeah, dude, I mean that's,that's like such a like an
inspiring story Like so manypeople could listen to and be

(53:39):
like okay, well, you know what's?
What's the javelin in my life?
The quote-unquote javelin likeis it my job?
Like, do I want to get betterthere?
If so, it's like okay, well,let's think of the top three
things that I could focus on andlike go through the motions and
see which one I need to work on, or like whatever it is.
But yeah, I think it just showsthat, like all the different

(53:59):
setbacks you had and thechallenges that came during the,
the actual seasons, like itdoesn't matter, you can still
make it to nationals.
Like I think that's a hugething, that like you're gonna go
through challenges no matterwhat you do in life, and it's
how you handle them.
Like I said, like you hadplenty of reasons to be like I'm
done, like I I want the out.

(54:20):
I just tore my pcl a secondtime, like what the heck like?
But no, it's like I'm gonnafight this thing.
I'm gonna go as hard as I can,that's huge dude.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
Yep, yeah, you gotta find a way, gotta find a way.
There's always a way, even ifthat's getting surgery right
away, for people that getmotivated to.
Yeah, if you have a seriousenough injury, please get
surgery.
Yeah, I mean obviously like.
But you all understand what hesaid yeah, it's a.

Speaker 1 (54:43):
It's a different situation.
Like, yeah, you had differentsituation.
Like there are people out therethat just need to address some
issues when it comes up.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
I've just known people before.
That's why I say that I'veknown people before and just
like, have a terrible injury andthey still power through it and
I'm like, please get yoursurgery right yeah, it's like
you're gonna add you know you'regonna cause permanent damage,
yeah, so it's changed my lifeforever, though, to add on to
that, really Forever.
Yep, when college ended, I gotinto sales and it was different,
because I'm not throwingjavelin, yeah, but the same

(55:12):
thing in the sense that one ofmy coworkers who's been in sales
for a long time, he's coming tome.
He's like how are you going tobe he's like, just think of it
differently an all-american inthis.
How are you gonna?
You know, if you have like aninjury, how are you gonna do it
in this?
And I was like that mind shift.
Yeah, I was just like, oh,that's perfect 100.
So immediately it was likestudying, figuring it out, like

(55:34):
going through my steps, findingthe pitch.
You know, like all, day when I'mmaking calls it's like I'm
trying to do this, yeah, youknow on every call.
So it's just been life-changingand I don't think I'd be the
same without it.
Man, like I'm so grateful, likeit sucks to say like I'm
grateful I got hurt and couldn'taccomplish what I wanted to.

Speaker 1 (55:51):
But that's life, man yeah I mean, I think finding the
gratitude in those moments islike what makes them valuable.
It's like what I was tellingyou upstairs, like when I was
sick and I was told that I wouldnever run, and like I would
have a heart attack if I did.
But now it's like I'm I'mhealthy again, like I'm back to
where I kind of used to be interms of my weight in college

(56:11):
and like that just gives you alot of power to be like.
You know what.
I know what it's like to not beable to do it and I'm grateful
for the opportunity I have tokeep going, even though if I'm
like I still have some healthissues, which I do, um, but like
you know it's, it's, that islife.
Like you said, it's going to befull of challenges.
Yeah, I agree, that's cool man.

(56:37):
I mean now you're like coaching.
Let's talk about the socialmedia piece for a second Um, you
started a javelin page.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
Yep, I've always had my page kind of dedicated to
javelin, right Like post a videoof me training here and there.
Um, I've always, always feltlike I've just learned so much,
like I've went through almostevery style of technique in that
, bouncing around to try tofigure it out, and I've really
become accustomed and in tune todifferent styles and what they

(57:02):
feel like.
Like the better you get, themore you learn what a good throw
feels like yeah, cause there'swhat it looks like and then
feeling is totally differentbecause you're playing around
with reaction and elasticityinstead of just like screenshot,
right, um, anyways, I've beenthrough so much and I've always

(57:24):
felt like, um, I've been reallygood at helping people get
through what they go through.
When I watch somebody throw, Iknow exactly how it feels.
I know what it feels like totake their throw.
That's crazy and that's myadvantage.
I know I know how to helppeople, um, the best that that I
can, because I feel like Iunderstand their throat because

(57:47):
of what I've went through.
Yeah, you know, and I've wentthrough a lot and still
accomplish a lot, and I want tohelp them do the same.
Like I get pumped, dude, whenI'm helping someone and they
accomplish something, Like Ilose my mind because, like I
know what it's like when theyimprove yeah, you know, and they
do like it know what it's likewhen they improve, you know, and
they do too, Like it's just sogreat.
But yeah, I've started a page,or dedicated my page at least,

(58:09):
to it, and that's kind of wherethat that passion is going to
funnel through now.
You know, like I'm postcollegiate now and I've learned
a lot and I just don't want allthat information to die.

Speaker 1 (58:19):
It should be shared.
I mean, I um, I love that youjust said passion, because like
it really is a passion.
And cameron haynes, going backto running, but I'm reading his
book.
It's called undeniable so good,yeah, have you read it?
Yeah, so good, so good.
But in that book he talks aboutpassion and he says people

(58:40):
think they have passion but theydon't, because passion is that
you're willing to suffer for thething that you love and like
perfect example, dude you'redoing two seasons with like a
torn PCL, like that's going tosuck and you're suffering during
that time.
but it's because you love thesport and you want to get better
and it's like, yeah, don't letthat die.

(59:02):
Like feed other people that andit's like I can't imagine how.
Like feed other people that andit's like I can't imagine how
gratifying that is.
Like I've learned all this andI want to help other people get
even better than I was.

Speaker 2 (59:13):
like that's so cool the key, like to me to build on
that like.
What makes me more pumped islike um, continual learning too.
Yeah, you know what know what Imean?
Like, um, I love figuring outthe event more and more.
That's something that I can'tstay away from my mind.
My mind is so intrigued tofigure out throws, um, and what

(59:33):
people do and how that mightfeel or how this movement might
work, that as I continuallycoach or hear other coaches
opinions on things or drills onwhy they should do them or why
they shouldn't, like I, I justcontinue to grow with it too,
and so I learned that my, mypassion is not only just like
figuring stuff out, yeah, butit's like also the throwing

(59:54):
attached to that.
So, like, I may not throw itall, yeah, but helping someone
figure something out like makesme just as excited, you know
that's huge that's it's likemultiple passion avenues at once
for me and it's just it's sonice like I.
You know that's huge.
That's it's like multiplepassion avenues at once for me
and it's just it's so nice likeI love it.
That's so cool, man.
It feels very rewarding to seesomeone have success when they
went to you because they theydidn't know what to do yeah, you

(01:00:17):
know, I've like.

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
I don't know if I told you about my brother
running, but like he was 265pounds and he's like I want to
run a marathon in a year.
It's like I helped him throughthat process and like the joy
that I saw in his face when he,like, crossed the finish line
and went from 265 to like two.
Now he's 203 um making thatwhole transformation, this whole

(01:00:39):
change, these whole lifestylechanges, and just seeing how
proud he was of himself, it waslike that made it everything
that I've gone through like madeit worth it, because, like I
was able to give him theknowledge that I have, it's like
I'm sure you'll run into stufflike that and it's just yeah
that's awesome dude, I love.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
I love that story.
Like it reminds me of thatnational champion I spoke of
earlier.
Oh yeah, um, she was a yearolder than me, um she, so we
trained together very closely.
Um, we had similar styles,similar opinions and she was
really good.
So, like, of course, likenaturally, I'm gonna attach to
that training style.
Yeah, and we realized, likeroutinist, becoming a routinist,

(01:01:17):
is like so deadly, yeah, andthat's just because you do
things when you're tired, you,you do it no matter what, right,
you know what I mean.
And like you're reasonable withneeding to take a break and
what your limits are, but likeit's the 1% thing.
Like you have to be a routinistto be successful and like just
becoming accustomed, like yousaid, to pain and suffering and

(01:01:50):
just like I guess, like it justkind of numbs it out when you
when it, when you get to thatpoint where, like you go to the
gym or to train or run orwhatever like, and it's just
what you do and you don't feelnormal without it.
Yeah, like then you're a rightand you can't live without it.
And un, like discomfort is howyou feel joy, yeah, as opposed
to where you were before.
Like we created a culture at byu.
Based off of that.
That's so like we wouldpractice at a certain time and

(01:02:12):
work on certain things that weneeded to work on.
Yeah, and that helped.
Other people saw that wouldcome and practice on the side at
the same time.
It's cool, right.
And then it'd be like, hey,come over here, you know, and
then like eventually it led tolike so many people doing the
same time.
It's cool, right.
And then he'd be like, hey,come over here, you know.
And then like, eventually itled to like so many people doing
the same thing because they sawthat that routine is
perfectionism, like they justsaw that come to play.

(01:02:34):
Yeah, you know, I mean, someonewins a national championship
from it.
That's so cool and everyone's,you know.
Yeah, what did you do?
And that was the the main thingthat stuck out.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
You know, man, routine dedication, I mean it
helps like that's yeah, that'sit, that's what helps.
Fuel consistency, yeah, andwithout consistency you're not
going to go very far in inreally anything.
Yeah, you're not going to getgreat at anything, I should say,
because you can't go far insome things, but like you can
imagine your brother man in thatmoment.
He was so cool.
That's amazing.

(01:03:05):
And now he's like running a 50kwith us.
Yeah and uh really yeah, andthen he's the guy I'm doing the
50 mile hour with in april.
Wow, so it's just like it's,it's cool seeing like a
transformation and seeing peoplebelieve in themselves and like
I'm sure you've run it the samething already with coaching and
stuff like that so, um, that'sawesome man.
Like, what a story like that.
So, um, that's awesome man.

(01:03:25):
Like, what a story Like.
That's so cool.
Um, but yeah, I, I asked mostof my guests this and I got to
ask you, um, so, based off likeeverything we've talked about,
like what does getting after itmean to you?

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
It's a good question Cause I believe in so much.
Yeah, you know it.
Yeah, you know it's a lot justknowing you can't lose.
If you don't give up, like I'mserious, like if you never stop,
you'll always find a way.

(01:03:58):
Yeah, and there's nothing morerewarding than that.
There's nothing more rewardingthan that.
Like, I know the reward and soI naturally, like my fun is
doing things that aren't fun toother people.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Like I go to the gym when Ireally don't want to, right, you
know I'm really sore.
I roll out my IT band when it'skilling me.

(01:04:20):
That hurts for everyone.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
That's the worst pain , yeah that sucks you know what
I mean and like it's changed mylife forever for that reason,
and hopefully that answers yourquestion.
But absolutely, man, thatthat's.
I think that would be my answer.
Yeah, in a very short form.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
Summary dude, that's perfect.
I think that's a.
That's a great place to kind ofwrap things up.
But dude what?
Yeah, seriously, I mean I lovethat story.
It's like taking a chance onyourself and then just going all
in on it Like that's huge.
So, yeah, man, I appreciate youcoming on.
This was fun.
This was a fun one.

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
Thank you.
Yeah, I mean, I was excitedwhen you asked me.
So yeah, dude, of course.

Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
I mean, like I, I feel like there's so much to
learn from anyone, especially in, like, people who are in
different sports, because, like,the principles that they talk
about are all very similar inthe sense of, like, well, you
need consistency, you needdiscipline, you need a routine,
like, you need all these things,but everyone applies them
differently.
Yeah, true, and some way that,like, one person might apply it,

(01:05:23):
one way that might resonatewith others and, like the way I
do, it might not resonate withthat person.
So it's like it just helpsother people to like hear you
know how other people aregetting after it, quote unquote
and like, recognizing that thereis a community of people out
there who are very similar tothem, who are trying to, like
make things happen.
So, no, I appreciate it, man,and, like, you always have a,

(01:05:44):
always have an invite on.
You want to come on and justtalk about, like you know, your
social page or anything likethat, which, by the way, what is
it so people can check it out?
Oh, all right, yeah, theannouncement gotta get the uh,
the plug in.

Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
Yep um my.
My instagram right now is mikewit.
Mike underscore wit um samewith my TikTok.
And soon it will change Really.
Okay, it'll change at somepoint soon in the future, so
we'll announce that at somepoint.
But yeah, you know, continuingwith the routine and developing,
that's what it is for my socialas well.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
So that's what you'll see 1% better on social.
Every day, man, every day I'mtrying to do the same.
It's freaking tough, it'sreally hard, it's hard, but you
know, that's the thing.
It's like everything we'vetalked about like, keep showing
up.
It's huge.
So you're the man dude.
Thank you so much for coming onum everyone else.
I really appreciate you forlistening and, um, as always,

(01:06:39):
just keep getting after it.