September 18, 2025 • 56 mins
This episode is about what happens when life doesn’t give you a choice.
Ally joins me again to talk through how we both deal with hard things—both the ones we choose (like ultra marathons), and the ones we never would (like sickness, infertility, and grief). We share personal stories from our lives—my illness, her father’s cancer, the struggle to start a family—and explore the role that discipline, mindset, faith, and support systems have played in helping us keep going.
We talk about the voice in your head during long runs, the trap of isolation during depression, the importance of service when you're stuck in your own thoughts, and what it really means to suffer with purpose. This isn’t a highlight reel. It’s a conversation about what it looks like to keep showing up—when things are hard, when life feels unfair, and when you don’t know how or when it ends.
If you’re facing something heavy, I hope this helps.
And if you’re not right now, you will eventually. That’s just how life works.
Prepare for it now.
3 Key Takeaways:
There are two types of hard things: the ones you choose, and the ones you don’t. Chosen suffering (like running an ultra) builds the strength needed for unchosen suffering (like illness or loss).
Self-talk matters. The way you speak to yourself during difficult moments shapes what you believe you’re capable of. Train the voice in your head to be a coach, not a critic.
Faith, service, and connection are not optional. During unchosen suffering, these become lifelines. Depression feeds on isolation. Reach out. Put yourself in good environments. Help someone else.
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I hope today’s episode sparked something within you to pursue your dreams and unlock your true potential. If you found value in it, consider sharing it with someone who might need that same push.
Getting After It is for those who. want to silence their self-doubt. Refuse to be owned by comfort. Understand their limits are man-made and breakable. We live in a time of constant comparison. Social media drowns us in highlight reels and overnight success stories. But what most people don’t see is the grit behind it all. The reps. The quiet mornings. The sacrifices. The failures.
You are just getting started. Keep Getting After It.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ally (00:00):
trying to make my way over my little sandals you've, yeah,
you got your brooks, alessandra, welcome back thank you this is
everyone's favorite guest.
Brett (00:10):
Oh, she's back, everyone being your favorite my favorite
and um the audience is take apoll everyone sends me dms and
says get ali back on the podcastwhatever yeah, no one sends me
dms.
It's kind of sad, but that'sokay you do oh yeah, that's true
, so maybe that's DMs.
You do oh yeah, that's true, somaybe that's why You're like
put me back on.
Yeah, definitely not Send meback on there.
(00:34):
Also check it out.
I got a nice sweater.
Ally (00:38):
It is very nice Getting after it, getting after it with
a little exclamation point onthe sleeve and checking this out
.
Brett (00:43):
These are coming soon, so get prepped.
Ally (00:46):
I'm ready.
Brett (00:47):
You are ready, as always.
Um, I'm glad you're on.
Thank you, thanks for coming on.
Um, last episode I did was allabout why we do hard things
Right, and that's a veryimportant topic.
Um, I mean, you emulate that.
You try and do very hard things.
Emulate that, you try and dovery hard things.
(01:08):
Very nice, um.
I mean, right now you're doingsomething hard.
You're trying to run 10 milesevery day.
That's intense, that's hard,but you do hard things, whether
you like it or not.
You're a pilot.
You, um, are married to me.
Ally (01:17):
You oh my goodness do endurance runs.
Brett (01:20):
You're about to run an ultra marathon.
You've've ran marathons before.
You're always trying to helpother people, which I think is
hard.
Um, and above all, I think youhave a great attitude, which, in
my opinion, is probably thehardest thing to maintain during
hard times.
Is your, your outlook and yourthoughts, and, going along with
(01:41):
last week's episode about why wedo hard things, I want to talk
about how we get through hardthings.
Ally (01:46):
Interesting.
So last week being chosen hardthings to go through this week,
how to get through hard thingsthat are given to us.
Brett (01:54):
I mean both, yeah, unchosen versus chosen suffering
.
I think last week's episode wasvery focused on chosen
suffering.
It's important to do hardthings.
There's many benefits from it,but this one, I think, can
relate for many reasons.
Um, but yeah, I think unchosenversus unchosen suffering is is
going to be both in this episode, and if you don't know what
that means, chosen suffering isyou're going to choose to decide
(02:17):
to run a marathon.
That is going to put youthrough suffering.
You're going to be, your body'sgoing to hurt.
You're going to be doing lotsof training.
That's the type of chosensuffering.
Another form of unchosensuffering is when I got sick.
I didn't decide to get sick andso that was kind of just given
to me.
That was a challenge that wasgiven to me.
So hard things are everywherein our lives, whether we choose
(02:42):
them or not.
But something that I thinkeveryone can benefit from is
learning how to get through them, and I don't think we have all
the answers, but I know we havesome, because you and I have
both been through some verydifficult things and we've both
done some very difficult thingstwo very different things.
So how do we get through hardtimes?
(03:04):
I don't want to just ask theobvious question, but do you
remember a time recently thatyou considered hard?
Ally (03:15):
recently.
Brett (03:15):
Yeah, like, do you have a story of like a long run or
something like that?
Ally (03:20):
Um, of course.
Well, the most recent, if we'redoing fitness first year of my
20-miler.
The other day in the woods.
Brett (03:28):
Let's talk about it.
Paint that picture for thelisteners.
Tell the story.
Ally (03:32):
All right, buckle up.
I'm painting a picture.
So exactly Now I felt prettyprepared going into it.
I'm definitely a big visualizerand if I'm dreaming about it
and daydreaming the day before,I feel like I go in a lot more
confident and I'm like ready toroll.
And I was doing this beforethis race.
I was imagining the trailsaround, like imagining how it's
(03:53):
gonna feel, like when am I gonnafuel up?
yeah how am I like all thethings?
When I do that, I definitelyfeel like I go in a lot more
prepared.
I think my mind's way more init and I'm more likely to finish
a long run.
When I do that, I definitelyfeel like I go in a lot more
prepared.
I think my mind's way more init and I'm more likely to finish
a long run when I do that andhave that kind of mental prep.
Yeah, so I get up and luckilyUtah has been having on and off
great weather and this was oneof the on days.
Brett (04:16):
It was nice the day you ran.
Ally (04:18):
Yeah, beautiful, and I was like I always say my prayers in
advance.
I'm was like I always say myprayers in advance.
I'm like, okay, if you want meto finish these 20 miles, you've
got to give me some clouds,listen up, and he pulls through,
just blowing them exactly, andI'm like, thank you.
And I was nervous because I gota late start to the day.
Brett (04:38):
I was already just tired yeah probably I was daydreaming
too much, but daydreaming somuch you're like I can't go on
this run yeah, exactly I'm tiredI got up probably around 7, 7,
30, something like that.
Ally (04:49):
I think.
I made it to the trailheadaround 8, 8, 30, which is a
little later, considering thesun's already out, and so I was
more worried I was gonna getsuper hot but, like I said,
clouds through Weather feltpretty nice considering.
Well, I started my run.
Everything felt wrong, startingoff right from the top.
(05:09):
Camelback could not get to workout with me.
I have obviously the one thathas like the water packs in the
front and on the back and Icouldn't adjust my straps right
and my shoulder straps were justflopping off.
I could not do anything to keepthat stupid thing on annoying I
was going insane because yoursyou have like the bungee across
(05:31):
your chest and it stays in agood placement.
Mine is a snap and I just can'tget it right.
So it's not my first long runwith this camelback, but it was
just not doing, not doing it,not doing it yeah.
So the first three miles waslike this is miserable.
Right from the start I wasrunning with holding my thumbs
(05:51):
in the shoulder straps so theywouldn't move.
So I'm running with my elbows.
It was so dumb, I was sofrustrated, anyway.
So then I started drinking outof those water packs in the
front, sooner thinking maybeit's just pulling them out.
Anyways, it was a mess.
Um, I continue running.
After about like mile five Ifigure it out what was going on.
(06:12):
It turns out my strap wastwisted and idiot.
So that was on me.
Got it figured out running.
I felt overall decent enough,but it was a little bit more
elevation than I was planning on.
I wanted it pretty flat on thistrail.
It wasn't.
That's okay, but towards theend I was getting so fatigued I
(06:33):
had not been feeling the way Iplanned.
I couldn't get any of them.
I brought a uncrustable becauseI want to practice eating real
food, like how we're going to doin our ultra yeah I couldn't.
I got like three bites.
I'm gonna throw up, toss it.
Nothing was like.
I was not fueled whatsoeversquirrels will want this yes,
and they well, I threw it in atrash can oh okay, that's good
(06:54):
yeah, um, but mile, I would sayprobably around 16.
I was going downhill pretty fast, started cr cramping up, which
is not abnormal.
I stretched it out.
It ended up being fine, but Iwas starting to get really faint
and literally every step was abattle.
I'm not even joking.
I was like I was prayingrepeatedly.
(07:18):
And I know it's just a trainingrun and it really shouldn't be
that big of a deal, but itreally took everything mentally
and physically for some reason.
Like it just like was a hard dayand I was like literally the
last half mile.
So at this point I'm like realbad struggle bus last half mile.
I was like I'm going to faintright now and I just like sat on
(07:41):
the trail right where I wasLike the mile 19 and a half.
Brett (07:43):
Yeah, 19 and a half.
Ally (07:44):
Yeah, 19 and a half.
I'm like I see the car rightand it was like getting black,
like from the corners coming inand I just like plopped down, I
was like whoa, something's wrongand I just sat there for a
while.
I'm like I'm so close.
It literally took me to thebreaking point and I was able to
complete it, obviously not thepace I wanted with the story I
(08:07):
just gave you, but I think thatwas definitely a mental win,
considering it was just a seriesof unfortunate events and a lot
of it was just my body and mymind not cooperating.
So I wouldn't say I had a lotof external factors that were
against me, but it was verydifficult and it wiped me out
(08:27):
for a few days.
Brett (08:28):
I mean it makes sense, but you said a lot there.
I want to dissect and lookthrough because you're such a
data guy.
Ally (08:36):
Look at you and your analytics.
Brett (08:37):
No, I just I think there's a lot that you said that
I think we can look to and pullapart and kind of get some
insight on look to and and andpull apart and kind of get some
insight on um.
First part is I mean you saidit like you were close to
passing out, like you almostblacked out- so weird and you
said like every every step was abattle like.
(08:59):
So, when you're in that moment,what drives you to say I'm just
gonna continue running, like somany people could be like oh you
know what, this is way too hard, I'm going to pass out.
Like I feel like crap.
The run started bad.
Um, it's way more elevated thanI thought it would be and
they're like okay, yeah, likeI'll just walk back to the car
or whatever the scenario mightbe, but they could easily quit.
What kept you going?
Ally (09:31):
you going Pop of pride.
I said I was going to do 20.
And so I wanted to do 20, andwe have our ultra coming up.
So a little bit pressure.
I think I really just didn'twant to be a quitter is what it
is.
Um, I wouldn't say there'sanything fancy about it.
I sometimes you get in thatmindset like, okay, I'll just do
two more miles and see how Ifeel.
Yeah, but the nice thing withthe route I was doing it was
five miles out, five miles backto the car and I'd do it twice
(09:53):
obviously yeah and so I was like, if I just got to get started,
so like once I like leave thecar, I'm like, okay, I just have
to go to the end.
And then it's like, okay, well,I have to make my way back to
the car right somehow so it'sreally just getting started,
because the second lap of thefive mile or ten mile loop, I
guess the second time I wasgoing out, it was so hard for me
(10:13):
to mentally leave the car to goback out for another 10 miles.
But I keep telling myself Ijust need to leave the car
because once I leave I have toget to five miles and that's
fine.
I, I can do five miles any day.
I just got to make it homeafter that and that means I have
to do five miles back.
So I think it's just themindset of one.
I just wanted to accomplish it,be able to, and I didn't know
(10:35):
how bad it was going to be,obviously starting, but that
second 10 miles is really whatgot me and I think I just had to
start.
And one thing that's beendifficult that you and I are
both working on is understandingsometimes the pace does not
matter we are not in a raceright now that we're going for
speed right and so I kepttelling myself if I have to walk
(10:56):
, I have to walk.
If I have to crawl, to crawl.
Whatever the distance is thedistance yeah, that's what's
important.
Brett (11:02):
It makes sense, so I like that.
I I mean, I think that's that'sgood in a lot of aspects.
Um, you set your mind on a goal, which is what I tell many
people to do, and you had toreadjust a couple of times,
which is also what I tell peopleto do if they wanted to, if
they want to finish their goalsor like achieve them, um, but
(11:23):
it's hard a lot of the times,and like that's where bad
self-talk comes up.
Um, so I'm curious what youtold yourself during that run
besides, like I just need tofinish this thing, like what was
going through your mind.
Ally (11:38):
I honestly think I'm blackout when I run.
I don't remember any thoughts.
Yeah, I think I.
That's probably good.
I think I listened to like thethump of my feet.
I don't remember any thoughts.
Yeah, I think I.
I think I listened to like thethump of my feet.
I haven't been listening tomusic or anything on my runs, on
my long run.
Brett (11:50):
Is that because you're scared of mountain lines or
because you just don't care alittle bit?
Ally (11:54):
Both mountain lines is a big factor.
Um, I think also I hear like alot of benefits of not listening
to anything and.
I like being in touch withnature.
I did it for my 18 miler and II think I just really liked it,
so I thought I should try for my20 and I overall I I like it
overall like I like just beinglike hearing the noises of the
(12:14):
trees and yeah and like my feetand my breathing, and I think it
is almost like comforting to beso connected with your body.
Brett (12:23):
It's almost like meditation.
Ally (12:24):
Yeah, and all my literally in my head it's like, it's like
sounds like so dumb, but I'mreally just like going with the
groove of my feet until I startreally struggling.
Then I'm just straight praying.
Brett (12:36):
Yeah.
Ally (12:37):
Like I'm not even like telling myself anything, it's
just like Holy Father, please.
Like I, literally yeah, and I'mlike talking to my dad.
I Like, heavenly Father, pleaseGet me through.
Yeah, and I'm talking to my dad.
I'm like my dad got me runningoriginally.
Brett (12:49):
I'm like screw you.
You better help me right now.
You better get me across thefinish line.
Ally (12:51):
Yeah, and so I think I have external conversations in
my head a lot.
I think I do that, though,because in the past I have been
hard on myself, and when I godown that route I for sure quit.
A hundred percent of the time Iquit once I start talking crap
to myself just getting in anegative headspace.
Yeah, which is like this week,like monday, I was gonna run.
(13:14):
I got one mile in.
I was like I'm gonna do threeand just to get some cardio in
with my lift.
Three is not even a lot for meright now and I got one in and
it's because I started tellingmyself everything hurts, I'm, I
suck, I'm not a runner like allthe stuff.
After one I was like my mind isgone, I'm not available for
(13:37):
this run anymore yeah, I'm done,checked out yeah.
So I can't let myself go downthat route.
If I start thinking negatively,I start changing my mindset to
have conversations with otherpeople mentally.
Brett (13:50):
I like that.
Ally (13:50):
Sounds like a psychopath thing, but it works for me?
Brett (13:53):
No, I don't think at all, and I mean it makes a lot of
sense Like, yeah, you do have totalk to yourself many times
when you're running yourselfmany times in, like when you're
running.
Um, I remember when brady wason the podcast, he's like,
basically, when he was runningand his iron man, he was like
yelling at himself like come on,like you got this, like run up
(14:14):
this hill, encouraging, yeah.
So he was like trying to hypehimself up and like get excited
about what he was doing.
Because I feel like, um, whenwe do hard things, like run
ultra marathons- or a 5K forother people.
Or a 5K, like you're out theredoing something difficult, thank
(14:35):
you, but like it'll get to thepoint to where it's so
uncomfortable that you just wantto throw in the towel.
And I feel like when thathappens you have to train your
mind to be able to findsomething good, find something
positive.
And I mean during that time youcould say like, oh yeah, well,
I was listening to the trees orlistening to my feet, you know,
(14:56):
thump the ground, whatever itwas.
I'm out in nature.
There's always something goodthat you can find, that kind of
eases the pain a little bit.
Something good that you canfind that kind of eases the pain
a little bit, um, but it's justcrucial because, like you said,
like once you let thosenegative thoughts slip in, then
kind of derails the wholesituation and like easily can
throw in the towel at that point.
So it's important to justalways keep that perspective, I
(15:18):
think, and it's hard, but howhave you trained your mind to
not be so mean?
Ally (15:23):
Actually, I know you.
Your mind is mean.
Sometimes, yeah, when you'rerunning and lifting though,
you're like scary mode.
What, yeah, what do you?
Mean, I feel like you're notthe type, when you're running
and it's getting hard, to belike come on, you got it.
You're more like you.
Little B word, get this thinggoing.
(15:45):
How do you talk to yourself?
Because there's no way you'regoing.
Woohoo, good job, keep going.
Brett (15:52):
No, I'm not like that positive.
I mean, I'll tell myself thingslike you've done this before,
Like do it again, yeah.
Ally (16:00):
You look at the evidence.
Brett (16:01):
I'm a little bit harder on myself than I think I should
be, but it used to be worse whenwe first dated, like it was
really bad.
Ally (16:08):
Right.
Brett (16:09):
Now it's getting to the point, to where it's like I
recognize that they're negativethoughts and or I recognize like
they're mean and I try not tojust think about them, Like I'll
try and think about somethingelse immediately.
But yeah, there are times whenI'm just like, yeah, you better
get your ass in a gear, son.
Yeah, Stuff like that.
(16:34):
Yeah, More of the Gogginsapproach, which works for me
sometimes.
Um, a lot of the times it doeswork for me, but there are times
when I like I let thosethoughts win, Um, and the
outcome is not what I wanted itto be, and so I feel like it's
for me.
It's a mix of being like youhave the evidence, because I
never want to be like, oh yeah,like you're doing so great,
(16:56):
Because I think you have to berealistic with yourself.
At least I'm realistic withmyself when I'm training or
doing whatever.
But also I'm coming to likerealize I shouldn't be that way,
because there's so many peopleout there who can't exercise the
way that I do.
I've been in that situationbefore and I know it sucks, Like
I would get jealous of peoplewho are at the gym like lifting
heavy and all these other things, but I'm just grateful I'm able
(17:19):
to do it.
And so now I come from a placeof gratitude, Like even when it
sucks, I'm like at least I'm outhere, able to do something like
this, Right.
Um, I always think of Rob Jones.
Like the guy doesn't have legsbut he still runs and he does
all these things and I'm sure hehe wishes he had legs.
And when it gets really hard,like then, I'll think about
(17:39):
things like that.
Or, um, like the reason why Iwas able to do my ultra last
year was because I thought ofJordan most of the time and he
was fighting a battle he didn'tchoose.
Ally (17:49):
Right.
Brett (17:49):
So it's, it's just kind of interesting, um, but I have
very high expectations of myself.
So I think you're right, likemy self-talk isn't the best at
times.
Uh, it's getting better, but,um, yeah, I think it think it is
important just to be able toreel those thoughts in, because
once you let the negative slipin, like I said, like it derails
(18:11):
the whole thing, okay, justslip off real quick.
It's a slippery slope, as theysay as they say yeah, I would
agree.
So, yeah, I'm not perfect, but Iam better, so so progress just
from immediately changing yourthought right when it comes in.
I try to and, um, I do have OCD,so I have a tendency to think
(18:32):
about those thoughts a lot.
But my thoughts don't definewho I am.
My actions do.
And so if I am able to putthose thoughts aside and keep
working towards whatever goal Ihave set in front of me, if it's
running, if it's at work, ifit's with getting after it, if
it's with you, I'll be able tofocus on the outcome rather than
(18:56):
the pain I'm in at the moment.
It's actually something I heardabout laziness.
The antidote to laziness is notinstead focusing on the effort,
but rather the outcome.
And so, like that'll push youto do the work instead of just
being like, oh man, like, ifit's a project that you want to
start, or if you want to createa website, be like I have to go
in there and do all these things, I have to create all these
(19:18):
products, I have to writehomepages, all this stuff.
But instead you could justtrain your brain to say I'll
have a website at the end ofthis, I just have to work really
hard.
Like the outcome shouldoutweigh the effort that goes
into it.
If you want it bad enough.
Like it's gonna be hard to get,but you got to think about how
you feel when you're doneinteresting which I think, like
(19:41):
for you, with the 20 miles, youhit 20 miles and you're like I
did it.
I was able to do it.
It probably wasn't the pace Iwanted it to be, but I didn't
quit and that outcome muchbetter than like the effort that
went into it, I assume.
Ally (19:59):
Like.
Brett (20:00):
Like I'm sure you felt much better once you got it done
than being like that sucked thegood of the outcome outweighs
the pain of the effort.
Exactly.
Ally (20:09):
I see.
Brett (20:10):
Yeah.
Ally (20:10):
I agree with that.
Brett (20:11):
So it's kind of interesting.
But I mean, one thing thathelps me whenever I'm doing
something difficult that I putmyself through is just having
that perspective, like I alwaystell myself like this will be
over at some point, this isgoing to end, this is a finite
experience.
Just having that perspective,like I always tell myself like
this will be over at some point.
Yeah, uh, this is going to end,this is a finite experience and
I can deal with this discomfortfor a few more hours If it's a
(20:33):
race I'm doing or if it's a longrun, like I can deal with this
pain for just a little longer.
Ally (20:39):
What about when you were sick and you didn't know what
the end looked like?
Brett (20:44):
We're going gonna get there oh sorry no, you're good
um, we can jump there nowactually up to you because I
think I yeah, that brings up agood point.
So, like with with chosensuffering, a whole different
mindset than when you're facingunchosen suffering.
I think, um, because chosensuffering you're putting
yourself in that situation sohowever you get through, it is
(21:06):
going to be completely unique toyou.
These are just things that havehelped us.
Ally (21:09):
And technically you can stop at any point when it's a
chosen suffering.
Brett (21:13):
Yeah, you can quit whenever you want.
Ally (21:15):
Yeah, that's more of a character builder, which is
important, but it's not going toaffect your day-to-day
typically.
Brett (21:21):
Yeah, but going back to unchosen suffering, so when I
was sick that was a pretty hardtime in my life Right, arguably
one of the hardest I did feelpretty hopeless during that time
, like I remember thinking likeoh yeah, okay, I'm going to die
(21:43):
Cause like no one was figuringout what was going on.
I was just getting worse andworse.
And, um, yeah, I had to hold onto hope during those times and
hope that I would get betterBecause, like you said, like
there wasn't a guaranteedoutcome, if I was able to sit in
this discomfort for you know, acouple of days, like maybe,
(22:04):
maybe then I'll be fine, likethere was no finish line in
sight, there's no end in sight,and it was really hard for me to
keep a positive attitude.
But, like, hope is whatgrounded me and the only reason
I was able to find hope isbecause of my faith in Jesus
Christ.
So that's the first thing thatI would say has gotten me
(22:26):
through unchosen suffering in mylife is just my faith in Jesus
Christ and my hope I can have abetter outcome in the next life.
If you know, I I stay true towhat I believe in, this.
Um, and turning to him and,like you know, you said you were
praying and on the trails andstuff, which I do too.
(22:48):
You know that.
Ally (22:50):
Um you get so good, I get pretty cheesy, yeah, but just
getting very grateful.
Brett (22:54):
Like I said, it comes from a place of gratitude, but I
just have to hope that the Lordhears my prayers and he hears
me calling out to Him.
And every time I've done that,I've just felt peace.
I felt comfort.
The fear was still there.
Peace, I felt comfort.
(23:17):
The fear was still there, butlike when I would think about
Jesus and I would turn mythoughts to him and think about
what he suffered for me and madeit just a little bit easier.
Like it's hard to explain, butwithout Christ, like I don't
know if I would be here because,like he helped me along the
entire way and it's hard toexplain like spiritual
(23:38):
experiences or like what thatfeels.
Like I'm not great at that,like I'm not good at expressing
my emotions and I feel likethat's a very emotional thing
that I need to learn how toportray better.
But that's really one of themain drivers that kept me
through or got me through thathard time, which is believing
(23:59):
that my prayers were being heardand they were, but that I was
not in it alone and I never feltlike it was, which is a
blessing on its own, but like Ithink when people talk about,
yeah, you have to turn over,turn yourself over to Christ or
like, if they're talking aboutreligion in any way.
(24:20):
For me, it was just like ithelped combat that loneliness
that I felt because, like, myparents didn't know how I was
feeling, my brothers didn't noone really knew what I was going
through mentally at least Um,but Christ did.
He knew exactly how I wasfeeling and exactly what I was
going through mentally at leastUm, but Christ did.
He knew exactly how I wasfeeling and exactly what I was
going through, and just knowingthat helped me just keep
(24:43):
fighting every day.
So that's the first thing Iwould say is unchosen suffering
for me.
I always turn to Christ first,um, but I know that's not
everyone's cup of tea.
It should be, but it's not, andthat's fine, um, and that's
where things like my supportsystem came into play.
Like I was, I got very close tomy family during that time, um.
(25:06):
I also listen to podcasts,which I know that sounds silly,
that it's a support system, likeI would listen to jocko
religiously, um, I got throughall his episodes twice, which is
wow, I didn't know that yeah,it's pretty good.
Um, but just like things likethat, like because I couldn't
(25:26):
watch tv, I'd get migraines, Icouldn't be on any screens,
really, so things like I used toplay video games to decompress
can do that now.
So it's like I just lay in bedand close my eyes and listen to
podcasts.
Ally (25:38):
Um, pretty weird, but did you pretend that you and jocko
were talking?
Brett (25:43):
no, but I like I would pretend like, okay, what would
jocko tell me right now?
Interesting, as weird as thatis too.
So yeah, I, yeah, I mean it's,it's kind of interesting, like
looking back now.
It's.
It's comical in a sense.
Um, like my buddies were jokingcoping.
Ally (26:02):
Yeah, that's like your coping mechanism.
Yeah, I think that's fine, it'shealthy.
Brett (26:05):
But yeah, my buddies were Jocko, chris and uh, so those
are top three good podcastfriends.
I know, yeah, they're my bestfriends during that time, um,
cause I basically wrote off allmy other friends, um, but, yeah,
so I mean like having a goodsupport system where you can
talk to people, and they mightnot understand what you're going
(26:26):
through a hundred percent, butit feels good to talk to someone
.
Yeah, Um, and I think duringthose dark times, it's important
to talk to other people,because isolation is easy and
it's also dangerous.
Um, yeah, you cannot don'tisolate.
If you're going throughsomething difficult, try not to
isolate, try and put yourselfout there.
Ally (26:46):
Reach out to other people, because that will put you in a
dark place that's like what umkim buck on your podcast she
really emphasized that and she'sa therapist like one of the
first things that you need to bedoing if you're struggling
mentally is find your bubbleyeah, and I, like, specifically,
was talking to her about men'smental health, right, and she
was explaining how, like a bigum, a big cause reason.
(27:13):
I don't know what you'retalking about.
Brett (27:14):
Yeah, uh.
A main driver of um depressionnowadays is just the lack of
connection.
Ally (27:19):
Totally makes sense.
Brett (27:20):
Which is so ironic because we're connected more now
than we ever have been.
Ally (27:24):
Yeah.
Brett (27:24):
Um not physically not physically, which is why, like I
love doing these kinds ofpodcasts where we just get to
talk you and I for who knows howlong, but but it's important to
connect with other people andhave that support system, so I
would say that that pushed methrough quite a bit too, just
being able to rely on otherpeople and Sounds like for
(27:49):
chosen suffering.
Ally (27:50):
You talked a lot about good self-talk.
Brett (27:55):
Yeah.
Ally (27:56):
Do you think that also helped you in given suffering
like regular hardship,day-to-day given challenges?
Brett (28:06):
I think it didn't help back then, but it helps now.
Interesting One thing that Ithink I've learned now that I
didn't know then, that endurancesports has taught me is
enduring discomfort.
Yeah, because when you'rerunning like you feel discomfort
(28:26):
in many ways your legs aretired, you're fatigued, you're
starting to black out, like yousaid, your pack's not on right,
like there's lots of things thatare uncomfortable about it Toss
on the heat or whatever theelements are going to throw at
you that day, like it's going tobe uncomfortable, and so that's
like packed into a very shorttime, all that discomfort, and
you just have to keep tellingyourself like I'm going to keep
(28:48):
going, I'm going to keep pushingmyself, I'm going to not like
stop until I'm done.
Ally (28:52):
No quitters.
Brett (28:53):
No quitters and I think that type of mindset when you're
going through unchosensuffering or I guess those
lessons that I learned during myruns and through ultra
marathoning and throughendurance sports has taught me
patience in regular daydiscomforts.
I would say that's moreapplicable now than it was back
then, but back then I wasprobably worse on myself than I
(29:15):
ever was.
Right Like I would avoidmirrors because if I saw myself
I'd be like you skeleton, youugly pieces, like bad stuff.
I beg you are a disgrace Gosh.
Yeah, I would tell myselfreally bad stuff.
Ally (29:29):
Awesome.
Brett (29:30):
So I wasn't mentally in a great place at that time.
But now I think if I went backI would be able to endure it
better.
But again, that was like one ofthe first unchosen suffering
things that I've really had togo through myself.
Ally (29:50):
You've learned since then.
Brett (29:51):
I've learned since then, but I wish I could go back and
tell that kid like hey, don'tworry, like you're going to be
fine.
Yeah, I really wish I could.
But yeah, I mean, I thinkthat's what's interesting now is
like now you and I are goingthrough infertility, which is
something that sucks.
Like wanting to have a kid butnot having the ability to have a
(30:13):
kid sucks.
Ally (30:15):
And then everyone's having kids by accident.
Brett (30:16):
Yeah, everyone has kids we always go around our nieces
and nephews which I'm grateful Ilove having.
Yeah, it's great like have kidsguys um, but like we go see our
nieces and nephews and everytime I leave them I'm like
they're so cute it sucks like Iwant one yeah um, but now I'm
approaching it different andit's like we're just gonna try
(30:38):
everything we can and if thatdoesn't work, we'll find a new
plan.
Um, I think you and I have bothhad tearful nights thinking
about infertility.
Like it sucks, it's hard, butat the end of the day, like,
like what's that mindset goingto get you when you're going
through a hard time Like I?
I still struggle with thatSometimes.
(30:59):
I'm like man, am I even?
Am I a man?
I can't even provide a child tomy wife, like things like that
will go through my headoccasionally.
But then I'm like you know whatit's?
Just, I have a tumor in mybrain that, uh, it's benign,
guys, don't worry about it.
It's not growing, um, and it'stoo small to take out, but it
(31:22):
has damaged my pituitary glandand so my body just doesn't
produce certain hormones.
So that's like a reality I haveto accept.
I'd be like, hey, you know whatthat's, that's just how it is.
There's nothing I can do tochange that situation.
Um, and if I think about itnegatively, then that's only
going to put me in a worseheadspace.
Yeah, so I think it's, you know, learning from.
I'm going to attribute it toendurance sports again.
Ally (31:42):
Really.
Brett (31:43):
Um, yeah, cause, like, those lessons taught me how to
endure discomfort, and it's nota comfortable situation.
It's not comfortable talkingabout it, it's not comfortable
going to doctor's offices andtrying so many different
freaking shots that I have to doyeah, seriously, but it's worth
it if there's a potentialoutcome where we have a kid.
It's like focusing on theoutcome rather than the effort
(32:03):
that goes into it.
So, yeah, it's weird, but Iwant to flip it over to you
because you've also gone througha lot of unchosen suffering.
Ally (32:16):
As everyone does.
Brett (32:17):
Yeah, but I want to, I want to bring it If we, if we
get too personal and just tellme we can edit this out.
Ally (32:22):
But no such thing.
Brett (32:23):
Um, I think something that like people will get mad at
people when they talk aboutunchosen suffering versus chosen
suffering is like whensomeone's diagnosed with a
terminal illness and you had towatch your dad, you know, get
cancer, go through chemo, allthese things.
Um, you had a very closerelationship with him and that
(32:47):
was not a suffering that hechose, but your family got
through and I think you'restronger than like from what
you've told me, than you everhave been really like.
Closer maybe not, but it mightbe speaking for you.
Ally (33:01):
But to each other.
Yeah, oh yeah.
Brett (33:03):
But like how did you get through those times?
Ally (33:11):
Well, everything you've talked about has been a spot on
good plan.
Obviously, everyone's ownexperience is going to tweak a
little differently, but ofcourse, faith is like the hugest
thing ever.
Brett (33:26):
Yeah, let me ask you about that.
How did faith get you throughthat moment?
Ally (33:30):
I got into Christian music a lot, a lot of worship music.
Brett (33:34):
She still likes it, by the way.
Ally (33:35):
I still like it.
I don't listen to it as much asI should.
Brett (33:37):
It's really cute.
Ally (33:43):
Every time things get tough, though, the playlist
makes its way back around, yeah,which is good.
I'm glad.
I think, the idea of justalways.
I think the reason I likechristian music, though, is
because one it invites thespirit, like there's peace where
people are praising the Lord.
Brett (33:57):
Yeah.
Ally (33:57):
And so hearing that through song, I think helps me a
lot.
Just because, even when I waslike driving down the road,
you're having all these negativethoughts, usually it's strictly
out of fear, and so I'd haveChristian music on, because then
, even like my unconscious ishearing that you can overcome
and that Jesus paid the price,like rely on him, and so, even
(34:21):
without me necessarily justlistening to the lyrics a ton,
you're still in an environmentthat is uplifting, and so,
rather than just sulking andjust being depressed in a
bedroom with the lights off andthe windows closed, I tried to
put myself in environments thatwould be encouraging, uplifting.
(34:41):
I went to church a lot.
I went to the temple a lot.
I listened to a lot ofChristian music.
I try to be around other peoplewho I find uplifting and so I
know you obviously were reallysick and so it makes sense that
you were in a dark room and youcan only listen to podcasts and
all that stuff.
Brett (34:56):
Yeah, Everything I was doing you did not do.
Ally (34:58):
Yeah, I didn't do anything that you did, but you also felt
like really crappy.
Yeah, I had nothing I felthorrible emotionally more than
physically, and it took a lot inme to go see the people I love
still or like just get out ofthe house, honestly, because
depression, my depression wassituational, of course, but it
(35:21):
prevents you from wanting to doliterally anything yes like it's
diabolical that it takes somuch strain just to get out of
bed.
Nevertheless, go and contact afriend, get out of the house, go
do anything like go exercise,whatever it is, go to work, and
it's so, so hard to do thosethings.
But I recognize that there is areward to that.
Like I, I recognize an obviousdifference from when I was
(35:44):
putting myself in situationswhere I could feel the spirit or
be around happy people and allthat stuff, all that stuff
versus isolation and quietnesswhere my head could just spin
out of control.
So I'll say that's the firstthing absolutely is putting
yourself in those environmentsthat you can feel peace and joy,
(36:07):
even if you're not able to feelit right.
Then, which is most likely thecase when I was at my worst, it
doesn't matter who I'm around,what I'm listening to, where I
was, you're depressed and that'sjust how it is and that's how
it's going to be and that's okay.
But the effort is there and youcan take confidence that you're
doing the right steps and, overtime, as continuing those habits
(36:31):
of putting yourself in goodenvironments, then, as the not
that grief lightens.
But you have good days, youhave bad days.
If you're still in that habityou'll be able to see like those
little breaks through the crack, like a little bit of light in
your life.
And I think that's where peopleget stuck in the pain of grief
(36:52):
and the darkness is becauseyou're not letting yourself be
in places where you can seecracks of light.
And you just got to hang on tothat, even though it's hard to
say, but that was a huge, hugething for me.
I obviously spent a lot of timewith my family and I tried to
make a lot of memories.
My dad was like a big jokesterand stuff, so he made the
(37:15):
situation lighter, which I'mgrateful for.
He wasn't like woe was me, likeI'm dying, except like he would
.
He'd crack jokes and he wouldlike try to make fun of the
situation a little bit and Iknow he was doing it for himself
.
A lot of it I mean, and us ofcourse, but I imagine that was
(37:35):
his coping mechanism to be ableto joke that he has a port in
his chest to get chemo, like.
I believe that he just had thepersonality to lift where he
stood and I think I just able tounderstand who he was as a
(38:00):
character in a way that I canremember him forever and I try
to live the way he taught ussince he's passed and I think it
helps me feel closer to him andso, although the grief and the
sadness and the emptiness isstill there, it has changed from
just straight sorrow to asacred place where I can live
(38:25):
the lessons he's taught and Ican take some attributes from
him and, by doing so, can feelcloser to him.
Brett (38:31):
Yeah.
Ally (38:32):
Which is so special.
Brett (38:33):
I think it is special He'd be so proud of you for
everything that you're doing.
Ally (38:38):
I hope so.
I think he would be.
I think that's one of thehardest things is when things
are good, because you can't tellhim the good stuff yeah and
obviously you wish he was therewhen things were sad, but now I
have you, for when I'm sad Istill want him there when I'm
happy, to be able to tell himthe things I'm doing, that he
helped push me to become, andit's just too bad that he's not
(38:59):
here to see that outcome.
Brett (39:02):
Well, he checks in on us every now and then with big
birds.
Ally (39:05):
True.
You should probably explainthat.
Brett (39:08):
Oh, every time that, um, I don't remember who told me
this, but I thought it was yourgrandpa.
It might've been my grandpa.
Um, it was my grandpa, you'reright.
But every time that I would seelike a big bird outside, like a
Falcon or a Hawk or an Eagle onthe rare occasions, um my
grandpa would always say likehey, there's a loved one looking
(39:29):
over us.
And so every time Allie and Iare in the car or like on a hike
or something, we see a big bird.
We're like there's Tim areas.
That son of a gun, that son of agun, that son of a gun, but no,
I think that's I don't know.
I one thing that I I think isreally admirable about your
family, um, is how you guys keephim alive, because he has like,
(39:53):
from how you talk about him andfrom how your brother and your
mom talks about him, he changeda lot of people's lives and he
was a very great man don't getme wrong, we still make fun of
him.
Ally (40:06):
I think he would appreciate that though yeah,
yeah, I mean we don't need toput him on that high he was bald
yeah, ew, he had a cul-de-sac,but so I think like treating it
like him as if he was still here, you know, like obviously you
see them in like a brighterlight because they're gone, yeah
, but sometimes I'm like wait,he was actually so annoying
(40:27):
sometimes.
Brett (40:29):
But all in good fun, all in good fun yeah, no I agree I'm
very grateful for that yeah,it's important, like important,
like it's like um with my I'mnot trying to compare my
sickness to your dad passingaway.
It's not not even close, but,like from the lessons I learned
from that time, I've taken theminto who I am and I think it's
(40:52):
made me who I am today.
This podcast wouldn't be aliveif I didn't go through that.
Um, same thing with you, Ithink.
Like you know, you said it likeI want to take these lessons
that he's taught me and, and youknow, show them that.
Hey, I did listen, or likewhatever you're trying to get
across, right?
Um, it's important to keep themalive, but unchosen suffering,
(41:16):
I think, is the worst one.
Ally (41:17):
Oh, absolutely, and you and I were just talking about
how, of course, it's been kindof heavy week last week yeah and
I was, like, just felt likethings after things, and like
the news is always depressing,as is, of course, but it feels
like an eerie feeling it hasbeen feeling so weird and
twitter's been depressing Ican't go on it right now, but
(41:38):
like, yeah, so to give somecontext to listeners if you
haven't heard, but um, charliekirk was assassinated on
september 10th if someone hasn'theard that well, there's a lot
that went on that last week.
Brett (41:52):
Then there's a school shooting in evergreen colorado.
Um, there's a lot that went on.
I don't know what else.
Ally (41:59):
There was a guy that got beheaded in front of his family
at a hotel oh yeah and a fewdays before charlie, the girl
got stabbed on the bus.
That's right, yeah and then itwas 9 11 after charlie, after
charlie, obviously.
Yeah, just a heavy week yeah, Ijust feel like nothing was
uplifting yeah and everyone'ssouls were racked so what do you
do during those times like?
Brett (42:19):
what do you do during times like this?
Ally (42:22):
I rely on my husband, just kidding.
No, I think it goes back.
It goes back to the same thingsthat I did in any form of grief
or sadness is put myself ingood environments first thing.
Do like, rely on faith, let thethe spirit do its job, the holy
ghost.
But as I put myself in goodenvironments, I'm very much an
(42:48):
optimistic person.
I think I think I'm realistic.
I understand that things cansuck, but I have so much faith
in things always working out,whatever that looks like,
whatever the timeline is.
I because, especially now thatmy dad's gone, I think I have
such a stronger faith in anafterlife and happiness forever
(43:10):
and all eternity and eternalfamilies.
Think because of that I havesuch a a more optimistic view of
whether it's a year, 10 years,when you die like, things will
be happy at some point yeah andmaybe I shouldn't say happy, but
(43:31):
you can feel joy still yeah andobviously, like last week,
nothing was affecting mepersonally in my day-to-day life
just because I felt theheaviness, like I still have my
job.
It wasn't like a directrelation.
You can still put yourself inthe good environment, still be
optimistic about the future and,even though you don't see it
(43:52):
right now, you can have a hopefor things to come.
Brett (43:55):
Yeah, I agree with that.
I also like this might not begood advice, but this is what I
do when things to come.
Yeah, I agree with that.
I also like this might not begood advice, but this is what I
do.
When like things get heavy, Ijust go off social media True
Like, because don't look at it.
Yeah, when I, when I go on there, like it just it's just
negative.
Like people are talking to youknow the Charlie Kirk thing.
People were like just shockedlike everyone or some people
(44:23):
were telling stories about himor like whatever it was.
But it's just like you knowwhat I it's horrible that this
happened, but I don't need tosee this 24 7.
So I think, just like smallthings like that, like you said,
so put yourself in goodenvironments, like turn your
phone off, go walk somewhere.
Ally (44:37):
Yeah.
Brett (44:38):
Get out.
Ally (44:39):
I always like the phrase.
This is kind of seems like ajump, but if you want a village,
you need to be a villager.
And I think when you thinkabout like feeling joy and like
being able to be more optimisticand all these things that we've
been talking about, and you say, get off social media, I think
going back how it was beforetechnology maybe not technology,
(45:00):
but social media and like, um,just knowledge at your
fingertips like 2008 yeah 2008take us 2008 I think facebook
was around, but that was like itmaybe
twitter, myspace potentially,but going back to not like that
(45:20):
you have to not have asmartphone and all this stuff,
but doing what you can.
Because it seems like back thenthey had all these human
connections and it seems likethat's when things were prime as
far as um, community and humaninteractions and less diagnosis
and therapy needed, because youhad people to talk to and you
had friends and stuff.
(45:41):
And if you want thatenvironment, if you want to have
people in your corner, thoseconnections, if social media
depresses you, then be avillager, be the one who's
making those connections, be theone that puts the phone away,
goes on, hikes, tries tointeract with new people join
the getting after it community.
Join the getting after itcommunity, going to run, doing
(46:02):
those things and be the person,then Be the person you want to
be.
If you're not liking thefeeling of all the negativity
around you, most things you canblock out just by turning off
your phone.
However, the things that's, thesickness, the death, all that
stuff you can't turn off yourphone.
That's not going to fix theproblem.
But it goes back to what youwere talking about with your
(46:25):
faith and the connections andbeing in good environments.
Brett (46:29):
If someone was going through something really tough
right now, what would you tellthat person?
Ally (46:35):
Well, I'd first ask how their relationship with Jesus is
, but I'm biased, yeah, um,that's always the very first
thing I do and, honestly, youand I talk about this quite a
bit, just between us.
It's hard advice to get to giveand to get, I guess but it's
like how often are you thinkingabout yourself?
(46:57):
I think so much depression andsadness or I guess I shouldn't
say that, but I think it'samplified when we're constantly
thinking about our own problemsand we're constantly thinking
about ourselves.
And I've had friends that hadto be like hey, by the way, it
(47:18):
might help if you stop being soselfish.
And it's terrifying, and I hopeI don't come across that blunt
and rude, but it's because we'vehad experiences that we know
what brings us joy is when weturn outwards.
If you're all in your head, ifyou can't stop thinking of the
same negative stuff, if you'reso against everything about your
(47:39):
life and everything seems likeit's going wrong, maybe it is
because you're so focused on itand maybe it's time to go focus
on somebody else.
Brett (47:48):
I agree very much.
I mean, it wasn't too long agowhere I was in a very dark
depressive phase.
Ally (47:56):
You were sick.
Brett (47:57):
I was sick, but I'm talking about like when we first
got married and you were sick.
I was sick, um, but it wasworse back then.
I just want to make thatclarification Like oh, he was,
yeah, different type of sick.
Ally (48:09):
You weren't, like, bedridden the same way, but I
mean your medications hadchanged.
Brett (48:14):
There was a lot of, a lot of a lot of change going on
like your hormones andchemically things were still off
, yeah, but like to your point,during that time, one of the
reasons I was depressed wasbecause I was thinking about it
so much and then it just gotinto this vicious cycle like I
would only think about it and Iwould like all my thoughts
turned around myself, like theyall focused on myself and excuse
(48:38):
me.
I remember, um, we had a talkone night and after that I was
like I need to change any stepup and I repented to you and to
god and to tim because I feltbad.
Ally (48:56):
Um, my dad's like what am I supposed to do?
Brett (48:59):
yeah, like great thanks, um, but like I started serving
you a lot more and trying tofocus on other people and once I
did that, like it's so weirdand you might not believe me,
but like it was like a flipswitch.
Ally (49:17):
I witnessed it.
Wow, flip switched.
Brett (49:20):
Flip switched.
Wait, switch flipped.
It's like a switch flipped.
Ally (49:26):
Yes.
Brett (49:27):
You flipped a switch on.
Ally (49:28):
Wow, that was hard to understand, for some reason.
Brett (49:29):
Yeah, that was weird.
Ally (49:31):
It's true, though I witnessed it.
Brett (49:32):
Yeah, but it really does.
It can make a huge difference.
And now like it can make a hugedifference, and now like I, I
hold that lesson tight because Inever want to be in that
situation again, and like I willalways try and focus on you
first, before myself, and I feellike that's just an easy way to
not be depressed, true?
and, and it makes me happy,makes you happy and I want to
(49:54):
make it very clear I I stilldeal with depression and I have
OCD, but every time that Idecide to help someone else out,
like Allie said, it really doesit takes my mind off myself.
I don't need to be thinkingabout myself that much.
I'm not that great of a person.
I think of Marcus Aurelius theemperor, who hired a man to
(50:17):
follow him around, saying youare a man like you're not a god.
You might be the emperor ofrome, but you're a man.
and sometimes I have to remindmyself that like I'm just some
guy, like I'm not special you'respecial to me well, yeah,
because you're my wife, right,but like that's really it, like
I'm just a human yeah and so,yeah, I think it takes a lot of
(50:38):
self-reflection, which is why,like journaling has been so
important to me and even duringdark times, like I'll journal
how I feel, and it kind of feelslike I have an outlet.
Yeah, but yeah, it'sinteresting.
Ally (50:51):
I think it's literally I can't speak highly enough about
service, which is funny becausesometimes I have such a bad
attitude about service.
Brett (51:00):
Everyone does, it's inconvenient.
Ally (51:02):
Yeah, and I'm not talking about like when, I'm talking
about service, like if you'rebeing selfish, go do something
for someone else.
I'm not saying you got to bringbrownies over to your neighbor
every day.
Brett (51:10):
You should If they're over 85.
Ally (51:12):
If they're over 85, they deserve brownies every day.
But besides that, I'm notsaying you got to go do some
extravagant things, but evenjust selfishness in terms of
like what your thoughts like areconsumed with, and I think that
that has one.
I think that's one of thebiggest things that changed our
marriage yeah, I think so too Icould do better at serving you.
(51:35):
Still, he's so nice I go.
And what do you say?
Brett (51:39):
you need some water thirsty.
I trained him so well sometimeslike, yeah, I'll be going to
bed, and like I just finishedstretching and like putting you
know lotion on my hands orwhatever I'm doing to hydrate
myself, and then I'm about toget in bed and Allie goes and
then I say, oh, you're thirsty,huh, so thirsty, so I go get you
some water and you're so goodat getting me water.
(52:00):
But it's kind of fun, like it'skind of a fun bit, honestly,
yeah and I'm like, oh, I bettergo get your water.
But like I think it's a joke andI'm really just like helping
you out actually, just likedon't want to get out of bed
like this is great I know, soI'm very grateful and I mean,
you do a lot of stuff for me tootoo I hope you do a lot of
things I hate, sorry, go ahead.
Wait, you just put it on atangent with things you hate.
(52:24):
I was going to say you do a lotof things that I hate.
Ally (52:26):
What does that mean?
Brett (52:27):
Yeah, that's a good point .
Ally (52:29):
You do a lot of things that I hate doing.
I was like what the heck I'mlike?
Maybe this is a topic for adifferent time.
Brett (52:36):
No, I was going to say you help me out with the laundry
.
You go to the grocery storewhen I don't want to go.
Ally (52:41):
That's hilarious.
Brett (52:43):
Those kind of things.
Ally (52:44):
That's so funny.
So yeah, if I had to giveadvice to a friend, it'd be one.
What's the relationship withJesus?
Because your focus should beone, god, two others, three,
yourself.
And if your order is scrambledif your priorities are different
.
Formula, good formula and youlove formulas, I do love math so
if things aren't in that order,you're more likely to be in a
(53:04):
state of selfishness andprobably more likely um symptoms
of depression yeah in ourexperience, zero caveats right,
this is all relative to us.
Right.
Brett (53:22):
Let's wrap this up, because I think there's a lot of
things that we've talked aboutand I want to keep the lessons
sharp and clear.
Okay, and I think those are allgood pieces of advice.
That formula is pretty solidfor getting through hard times.
Ally (53:39):
Like god first, others second, yourself last or
comparable to god, if that'syour thing yeah, whatever it is
a greater purpose.
Brett (53:47):
Yeah, just try and think outside of yourself, um, and if
you're hearing this and you'regetting mad, maybe you need to
do it.
You need to think about someoneelse.
Ally (53:55):
Maybe it's stinging for a reason.
Brett (53:57):
Yeah, and I won't pull my punches.
Go do something nice, butreally chosen.
Suffering, I feel like, is agreat teacher with many life
lessons.
It teaches you how to endureand, in my opinion, it gets you
ready and able to handle thehard things that come up in your
(54:18):
life.
And so why we do hard things, Ithink, ties in perfectly to
that.
We do them so we're ready formoments where we don't get to
choose when it's hard, and so Ithink you know next time, if
you're going through somethingdifficult, always feel free Like
you can reach out to me.
I'm happy to help where I can.
Ally (54:39):
Me too.
Brett (54:40):
Allie too and check out siblings in crime.
It might give you a littlechortle, you might chortle.
Ally (54:46):
It might make you skilled.
Brett (54:48):
No, but I mean, you guys have a good dynamic though.
You guys are fun to listen to.
Yeah, I feel like crime.
That's not your forte, Dina,Don't worry about it, but
anyways, I think it's justimportant.
And my last thing I'll say isjust don't give up.
Like with Allie's run, you knowit wasn't as fast as she wanted
(55:12):
it to be, but she finished.
And when I was sick I couldhave given up many times, but I
didn't.
Allie could have thrown herselfunder the blankets when her dad
was passing away from cancerand taking that attitude and
(55:33):
think that the world threw thaton her and get angry about
everything, but instead decidedto think outside of herself and,
um, I think it's just importantto not give up.
Like there's so much more tolive for.
The trials that we go throughare but a moment and they always
hopefully end.
Um, but yeah, just never giveup.
(55:55):
Stay in the fight.
Ally (55:59):
I like that.
Brett (56:01):
Thanks for coming on.
Ally (56:02):
Thanks for having me.
It's always a pleasure, alwaysfun.
Brett (56:04):
I get to look at you for like an hour.
Ally (56:06):
You look at me all the time.
What do you mean?
I?
Brett (56:07):
know, but like directly.
Ally (56:09):
You're ridiculous.
Brett (56:10):
People are going to start tuning out.
Anyways, I appreciate you guysfor listening to this episode
and, as always, keep gettingafter it.
trying to make my way over my little sandals you've, yeah,
you got your brooks, alessandra, welcome back thank you this is
everyone's favorite guest.
Brett (00:10):
Oh, she's back, everyone being your favorite my favorite
and um the audience is take apoll everyone sends me dms and
says get ali back on the podcastwhatever yeah, no one sends me
dms.
It's kind of sad, but that'sokay you do oh yeah, that's true
, so maybe that's DMs.
You do oh yeah, that's true, somaybe that's why You're like
put me back on.
Yeah, definitely not Send meback on there.
(00:34):
Also check it out.
I got a nice sweater.
Ally (00:38):
It is very nice Getting after it, getting after it with
a little exclamation point onthe sleeve and checking this out
.
Brett (00:43):
These are coming soon, so get prepped.
Ally (00:46):
I'm ready.
Brett (00:47):
You are ready, as always.
Um, I'm glad you're on.
Thank you, thanks for coming on.
Um, last episode I did was allabout why we do hard things
Right, and that's a veryimportant topic.
Um, I mean, you emulate that.
You try and do very hard things.
Emulate that, you try and dovery hard things.
(01:08):
Very nice, um.
I mean, right now you're doingsomething hard.
You're trying to run 10 milesevery day.
That's intense, that's hard,but you do hard things, whether
you like it or not.
You're a pilot.
You, um, are married to me.
Ally (01:17):
You oh my goodness do endurance runs.
Brett (01:20):
You're about to run an ultra marathon.
You've've ran marathons before.
You're always trying to helpother people, which I think is
hard.
Um, and above all, I think youhave a great attitude, which, in
my opinion, is probably thehardest thing to maintain during
hard times.
Is your, your outlook and yourthoughts, and, going along with
(01:41):
last week's episode about why wedo hard things, I want to talk
about how we get through hardthings.
Ally (01:46):
Interesting.
So last week being chosen hardthings to go through this week,
how to get through hard thingsthat are given to us.
Brett (01:54):
I mean both, yeah, unchosen versus chosen suffering
.
I think last week's episode wasvery focused on chosen
suffering.
It's important to do hardthings.
There's many benefits from it,but this one, I think, can
relate for many reasons.
Um, but yeah, I think unchosenversus unchosen suffering is is
going to be both in this episode, and if you don't know what
that means, chosen suffering isyou're going to choose to decide
(02:17):
to run a marathon.
That is going to put youthrough suffering.
You're going to be, your body'sgoing to hurt.
You're going to be doing lotsof training.
That's the type of chosensuffering.
Another form of unchosensuffering is when I got sick.
I didn't decide to get sick andso that was kind of just given
to me.
That was a challenge that wasgiven to me.
So hard things are everywherein our lives, whether we choose
(02:42):
them or not.
But something that I thinkeveryone can benefit from is
learning how to get through them, and I don't think we have all
the answers, but I know we havesome, because you and I have
both been through some verydifficult things and we've both
done some very difficult thingstwo very different things.
So how do we get through hardtimes?
(03:04):
I don't want to just ask theobvious question, but do you
remember a time recently thatyou considered hard?
Ally (03:15):
recently.
Brett (03:15):
Yeah, like, do you have a story of like a long run or
something like that?
Ally (03:20):
Um, of course.
Well, the most recent, if we'redoing fitness first year of my
20-miler.
The other day in the woods.
Brett (03:28):
Let's talk about it.
Paint that picture for thelisteners.
Tell the story.
Ally (03:32):
All right, buckle up.
I'm painting a picture.
So exactly Now I felt prettyprepared going into it.
I'm definitely a big visualizerand if I'm dreaming about it
and daydreaming the day before,I feel like I go in a lot more
confident and I'm like ready toroll.
And I was doing this beforethis race.
I was imagining the trailsaround, like imagining how it's
(03:53):
gonna feel, like when am I gonnafuel up?
yeah how am I like all thethings?
When I do that, I definitelyfeel like I go in a lot more
prepared.
I think my mind's way more init and I'm more likely to finish
a long run.
When I do that, I definitelyfeel like I go in a lot more
prepared.
I think my mind's way more init and I'm more likely to finish
a long run when I do that andhave that kind of mental prep.
Yeah, so I get up and luckilyUtah has been having on and off
great weather and this was oneof the on days.
Brett (04:16):
It was nice the day you ran.
Ally (04:18):
Yeah, beautiful, and I was like I always say my prayers in
advance.
I'm was like I always say myprayers in advance.
I'm like, okay, if you want meto finish these 20 miles, you've
got to give me some clouds,listen up, and he pulls through,
just blowing them exactly, andI'm like, thank you.
And I was nervous because I gota late start to the day.
Brett (04:38):
I was already just tired yeah probably I was daydreaming
too much, but daydreaming somuch you're like I can't go on
this run yeah, exactly I'm tiredI got up probably around 7, 7,
30, something like that.
Ally (04:49):
I think.
I made it to the trailheadaround 8, 8, 30, which is a
little later, considering thesun's already out, and so I was
more worried I was gonna getsuper hot but, like I said,
clouds through Weather feltpretty nice considering.
Well, I started my run.
Everything felt wrong, startingoff right from the top.
(05:09):
Camelback could not get to workout with me.
I have obviously the one thathas like the water packs in the
front and on the back and Icouldn't adjust my straps right
and my shoulder straps were justflopping off.
I could not do anything to keepthat stupid thing on annoying I
was going insane because yoursyou have like the bungee across
(05:31):
your chest and it stays in agood placement.
Mine is a snap and I just can'tget it right.
So it's not my first long runwith this camelback, but it was
just not doing, not doing it,not doing it yeah.
So the first three miles waslike this is miserable.
Right from the start I wasrunning with holding my thumbs
(05:51):
in the shoulder straps so theywouldn't move.
So I'm running with my elbows.
It was so dumb, I was sofrustrated, anyway.
So then I started drinking outof those water packs in the
front, sooner thinking maybeit's just pulling them out.
Anyways, it was a mess.
Um, I continue running.
After about like mile five Ifigure it out what was going on.
(06:12):
It turns out my strap wastwisted and idiot.
So that was on me.
Got it figured out running.
I felt overall decent enough,but it was a little bit more
elevation than I was planning on.
I wanted it pretty flat on thistrail.
It wasn't.
That's okay, but towards theend I was getting so fatigued I
(06:33):
had not been feeling the way Iplanned.
I couldn't get any of them.
I brought a uncrustable becauseI want to practice eating real
food, like how we're going to doin our ultra yeah I couldn't.
I got like three bites.
I'm gonna throw up, toss it.
Nothing was like.
I was not fueled whatsoeversquirrels will want this yes,
and they well, I threw it in atrash can oh okay, that's good
(06:54):
yeah, um, but mile, I would sayprobably around 16.
I was going downhill pretty fast, started cr cramping up, which
is not abnormal.
I stretched it out.
It ended up being fine, but Iwas starting to get really faint
and literally every step was abattle.
I'm not even joking.
I was like I was prayingrepeatedly.
(07:18):
And I know it's just a trainingrun and it really shouldn't be
that big of a deal, but itreally took everything mentally
and physically for some reason.
Like it just like was a hard dayand I was like literally the
last half mile.
So at this point I'm like realbad struggle bus last half mile.
I was like I'm going to faintright now and I just like sat on
(07:41):
the trail right where I wasLike the mile 19 and a half.
Brett (07:43):
Yeah, 19 and a half.
Ally (07:44):
Yeah, 19 and a half.
I'm like I see the car rightand it was like getting black,
like from the corners coming inand I just like plopped down, I
was like whoa, something's wrongand I just sat there for a
while.
I'm like I'm so close.
It literally took me to thebreaking point and I was able to
complete it, obviously not thepace I wanted with the story I
(08:07):
just gave you, but I think thatwas definitely a mental win,
considering it was just a seriesof unfortunate events and a lot
of it was just my body and mymind not cooperating.
So I wouldn't say I had a lotof external factors that were
against me, but it was verydifficult and it wiped me out
(08:27):
for a few days.
Brett (08:28):
I mean it makes sense, but you said a lot there.
I want to dissect and lookthrough because you're such a
data guy.
Ally (08:36):
Look at you and your analytics.
Brett (08:37):
No, I just I think there's a lot that you said that
I think we can look to and pullapart and kind of get some
insight on look to and and andpull apart and kind of get some
insight on um.
First part is I mean you saidit like you were close to
passing out, like you almostblacked out- so weird and you
said like every every step was abattle like.
(08:59):
So, when you're in that moment,what drives you to say I'm just
gonna continue running, like somany people could be like oh you
know what, this is way too hard, I'm going to pass out.
Like I feel like crap.
The run started bad.
Um, it's way more elevated thanI thought it would be and
they're like okay, yeah, likeI'll just walk back to the car
or whatever the scenario mightbe, but they could easily quit.
What kept you going?
Ally (09:31):
you going Pop of pride.
I said I was going to do 20.
And so I wanted to do 20, andwe have our ultra coming up.
So a little bit pressure.
I think I really just didn'twant to be a quitter is what it
is.
Um, I wouldn't say there'sanything fancy about it.
I sometimes you get in thatmindset like, okay, I'll just do
two more miles and see how Ifeel.
Yeah, but the nice thing withthe route I was doing it was
five miles out, five miles backto the car and I'd do it twice
(09:53):
obviously yeah and so I was like, if I just got to get started,
so like once I like leave thecar, I'm like, okay, I just have
to go to the end.
And then it's like, okay, well,I have to make my way back to
the car right somehow so it'sreally just getting started,
because the second lap of thefive mile or ten mile loop, I
guess the second time I wasgoing out, it was so hard for me
(10:13):
to mentally leave the car to goback out for another 10 miles.
But I keep telling myself Ijust need to leave the car
because once I leave I have toget to five miles and that's
fine.
I, I can do five miles any day.
I just got to make it homeafter that and that means I have
to do five miles back.
So I think it's just themindset of one.
I just wanted to accomplish it,be able to, and I didn't know
(10:35):
how bad it was going to be,obviously starting, but that
second 10 miles is really whatgot me and I think I just had to
start.
And one thing that's beendifficult that you and I are
both working on is understandingsometimes the pace does not
matter we are not in a raceright now that we're going for
speed right and so I kepttelling myself if I have to walk
(10:56):
, I have to walk.
If I have to crawl, to crawl.
Whatever the distance is thedistance yeah, that's what's
important.
Brett (11:02):
It makes sense, so I like that.
I I mean, I think that's that'sgood in a lot of aspects.
Um, you set your mind on a goal, which is what I tell many
people to do, and you had toreadjust a couple of times,
which is also what I tell peopleto do if they wanted to, if
they want to finish their goalsor like achieve them, um, but
(11:23):
it's hard a lot of the times,and like that's where bad
self-talk comes up.
Um, so I'm curious what youtold yourself during that run
besides, like I just need tofinish this thing, like what was
going through your mind.
Ally (11:38):
I honestly think I'm blackout when I run.
I don't remember any thoughts.
Yeah, I think I.
That's probably good.
I think I listened to like thethump of my feet.
I don't remember any thoughts.
Yeah, I think I.
I think I listened to like thethump of my feet.
I haven't been listening tomusic or anything on my runs, on
my long run.
Brett (11:50):
Is that because you're scared of mountain lines or
because you just don't care alittle bit?
Ally (11:54):
Both mountain lines is a big factor.
Um, I think also I hear like alot of benefits of not listening
to anything and.
I like being in touch withnature.
I did it for my 18 miler and II think I just really liked it,
so I thought I should try for my20 and I overall I I like it
overall like I like just beinglike hearing the noises of the
(12:14):
trees and yeah and like my feetand my breathing, and I think it
is almost like comforting to beso connected with your body.
Brett (12:23):
It's almost like meditation.
Ally (12:24):
Yeah, and all my literally in my head it's like, it's like
sounds like so dumb, but I'mreally just like going with the
groove of my feet until I startreally struggling.
Then I'm just straight praying.
Brett (12:36):
Yeah.
Ally (12:37):
Like I'm not even like telling myself anything, it's
just like Holy Father, please.
Like I, literally yeah, and I'mlike talking to my dad.
I Like, heavenly Father, pleaseGet me through.
Yeah, and I'm talking to my dad.
I'm like my dad got me runningoriginally.
Brett (12:49):
I'm like screw you.
You better help me right now.
You better get me across thefinish line.
Ally (12:51):
Yeah, and so I think I have external conversations in
my head a lot.
I think I do that, though,because in the past I have been
hard on myself, and when I godown that route I for sure quit.
A hundred percent of the time Iquit once I start talking crap
to myself just getting in anegative headspace.
Yeah, which is like this week,like monday, I was gonna run.
(13:14):
I got one mile in.
I was like I'm gonna do threeand just to get some cardio in
with my lift.
Three is not even a lot for meright now and I got one in and
it's because I started tellingmyself everything hurts, I'm, I
suck, I'm not a runner like allthe stuff.
After one I was like my mind isgone, I'm not available for
(13:37):
this run anymore yeah, I'm done,checked out yeah.
So I can't let myself go downthat route.
If I start thinking negatively,I start changing my mindset to
have conversations with otherpeople mentally.
Brett (13:50):
I like that.
Ally (13:50):
Sounds like a psychopath thing, but it works for me?
Brett (13:53):
No, I don't think at all, and I mean it makes a lot of
sense Like, yeah, you do have totalk to yourself many times
when you're running yourselfmany times in, like when you're
running.
Um, I remember when brady wason the podcast, he's like,
basically, when he was runningand his iron man, he was like
yelling at himself like come on,like you got this, like run up
(14:14):
this hill, encouraging, yeah.
So he was like trying to hypehimself up and like get excited
about what he was doing.
Because I feel like, um, whenwe do hard things, like run
ultra marathons- or a 5K forother people.
Or a 5K, like you're out theredoing something difficult, thank
(14:35):
you, but like it'll get to thepoint to where it's so
uncomfortable that you just wantto throw in the towel.
And I feel like when thathappens you have to train your
mind to be able to findsomething good, find something
positive.
And I mean during that time youcould say like, oh yeah, well,
I was listening to the trees orlistening to my feet, you know,
(14:56):
thump the ground, whatever itwas.
I'm out in nature.
There's always something goodthat you can find, that kind of
eases the pain a little bit.
Something good that you canfind that kind of eases the pain
a little bit, um, but it's justcrucial because, like you said,
like once you let thosenegative thoughts slip in, then
kind of derails the wholesituation and like easily can
throw in the towel at that point.
So it's important to justalways keep that perspective, I
(15:18):
think, and it's hard, but howhave you trained your mind to
not be so mean?
Ally (15:23):
Actually, I know you.
Your mind is mean.
Sometimes, yeah, when you'rerunning and lifting though,
you're like scary mode.
What, yeah, what do you?
Mean, I feel like you're notthe type, when you're running
and it's getting hard, to belike come on, you got it.
You're more like you.
Little B word, get this thinggoing.
(15:45):
How do you talk to yourself?
Because there's no way you'regoing.
Woohoo, good job, keep going.
Brett (15:52):
No, I'm not like that positive.
I mean, I'll tell myself thingslike you've done this before,
Like do it again, yeah.
Ally (16:00):
You look at the evidence.
Brett (16:01):
I'm a little bit harder on myself than I think I should
be, but it used to be worse whenwe first dated, like it was
really bad.
Ally (16:08):
Right.
Brett (16:09):
Now it's getting to the point, to where it's like I
recognize that they're negativethoughts and or I recognize like
they're mean and I try not tojust think about them, Like I'll
try and think about somethingelse immediately.
But yeah, there are times whenI'm just like, yeah, you better
get your ass in a gear, son.
Yeah, Stuff like that.
(16:34):
Yeah, More of the Gogginsapproach, which works for me
sometimes.
Um, a lot of the times it doeswork for me, but there are times
when I like I let thosethoughts win, Um, and the
outcome is not what I wanted itto be, and so I feel like it's
for me.
It's a mix of being like youhave the evidence, because I
never want to be like, oh yeah,like you're doing so great,
(16:56):
Because I think you have to berealistic with yourself.
At least I'm realistic withmyself when I'm training or
doing whatever.
But also I'm coming to likerealize I shouldn't be that way,
because there's so many peopleout there who can't exercise the
way that I do.
I've been in that situationbefore and I know it sucks, Like
I would get jealous of peoplewho are at the gym like lifting
heavy and all these other things, but I'm just grateful I'm able
(17:19):
to do it.
And so now I come from a placeof gratitude, Like even when it
sucks, I'm like at least I'm outhere, able to do something like
this, Right.
Um, I always think of Rob Jones.
Like the guy doesn't have legsbut he still runs and he does
all these things and I'm sure hehe wishes he had legs.
And when it gets really hard,like then, I'll think about
(17:39):
things like that.
Or, um, like the reason why Iwas able to do my ultra last
year was because I thought ofJordan most of the time and he
was fighting a battle he didn'tchoose.
Ally (17:49):
Right.
Brett (17:49):
So it's, it's just kind of interesting, um, but I have
very high expectations of myself.
So I think you're right, likemy self-talk isn't the best at
times.
Uh, it's getting better, but,um, yeah, I think it think it is
important just to be able toreel those thoughts in, because
once you let the negative slipin, like I said, like it derails
(18:11):
the whole thing, okay, justslip off real quick.
It's a slippery slope, as theysay as they say yeah, I would
agree.
So, yeah, I'm not perfect, but Iam better, so so progress just
from immediately changing yourthought right when it comes in.
I try to and, um, I do have OCD,so I have a tendency to think
(18:32):
about those thoughts a lot.
But my thoughts don't definewho I am.
My actions do.
And so if I am able to putthose thoughts aside and keep
working towards whatever goal Ihave set in front of me, if it's
running, if it's at work, ifit's with getting after it, if
it's with you, I'll be able tofocus on the outcome rather than
(18:56):
the pain I'm in at the moment.
It's actually something I heardabout laziness.
The antidote to laziness is notinstead focusing on the effort,
but rather the outcome.
And so, like that'll push youto do the work instead of just
being like, oh man, like, ifit's a project that you want to
start, or if you want to createa website, be like I have to go
in there and do all these things, I have to create all these
(19:18):
products, I have to writehomepages, all this stuff.
But instead you could justtrain your brain to say I'll
have a website at the end ofthis, I just have to work really
hard.
Like the outcome shouldoutweigh the effort that goes
into it.
If you want it bad enough.
Like it's gonna be hard to get,but you got to think about how
you feel when you're doneinteresting which I think, like
(19:41):
for you, with the 20 miles, youhit 20 miles and you're like I
did it.
I was able to do it.
It probably wasn't the pace Iwanted it to be, but I didn't
quit and that outcome muchbetter than like the effort that
went into it, I assume.
Ally (19:59):
Like.
Brett (20:00):
Like I'm sure you felt much better once you got it done
than being like that sucked thegood of the outcome outweighs
the pain of the effort.
Exactly.
Ally (20:09):
I see.
Brett (20:10):
Yeah.
Ally (20:10):
I agree with that.
Brett (20:11):
So it's kind of interesting.
But I mean, one thing thathelps me whenever I'm doing
something difficult that I putmyself through is just having
that perspective, like I alwaystell myself like this will be
over at some point, this isgoing to end, this is a finite
experience.
Just having that perspective,like I always tell myself like
this will be over at some point.
Yeah, uh, this is going to end,this is a finite experience and
I can deal with this discomfortfor a few more hours If it's a
(20:33):
race I'm doing or if it's a longrun, like I can deal with this
pain for just a little longer.
Ally (20:39):
What about when you were sick and you didn't know what
the end looked like?
Brett (20:44):
We're going gonna get there oh sorry no, you're good
um, we can jump there nowactually up to you because I
think I yeah, that brings up agood point.
So, like with with chosensuffering, a whole different
mindset than when you're facingunchosen suffering.
I think, um, because chosensuffering you're putting
yourself in that situation sohowever you get through, it is
(21:06):
going to be completely unique toyou.
These are just things that havehelped us.
Ally (21:09):
And technically you can stop at any point when it's a
chosen suffering.
Brett (21:13):
Yeah, you can quit whenever you want.
Ally (21:15):
Yeah, that's more of a character builder, which is
important, but it's not going toaffect your day-to-day
typically.
Brett (21:21):
Yeah, but going back to unchosen suffering, so when I
was sick that was a pretty hardtime in my life Right, arguably
one of the hardest I did feelpretty hopeless during that time
, like I remember thinking likeoh yeah, okay, I'm going to die
(21:43):
Cause like no one was figuringout what was going on.
I was just getting worse andworse.
And, um, yeah, I had to hold onto hope during those times and
hope that I would get betterBecause, like you said, like
there wasn't a guaranteedoutcome, if I was able to sit in
this discomfort for you know, acouple of days, like maybe,
(22:04):
maybe then I'll be fine, likethere was no finish line in
sight, there's no end in sight,and it was really hard for me to
keep a positive attitude.
But, like, hope is whatgrounded me and the only reason
I was able to find hope isbecause of my faith in Jesus
Christ.
So that's the first thing thatI would say has gotten me
(22:26):
through unchosen suffering in mylife is just my faith in Jesus
Christ and my hope I can have abetter outcome in the next life.
If you know, I I stay true towhat I believe in, this.
Um, and turning to him and,like you know, you said you were
praying and on the trails andstuff, which I do too.
(22:48):
You know that.
Ally (22:50):
Um you get so good, I get pretty cheesy, yeah, but just
getting very grateful.
Brett (22:54):
Like I said, it comes from a place of gratitude, but I
just have to hope that the Lordhears my prayers and he hears
me calling out to Him.
And every time I've done that,I've just felt peace.
I felt comfort.
The fear was still there.
Peace, I felt comfort.
(23:17):
The fear was still there, butlike when I would think about
Jesus and I would turn mythoughts to him and think about
what he suffered for me and madeit just a little bit easier.
Like it's hard to explain, butwithout Christ, like I don't
know if I would be here because,like he helped me along the
entire way and it's hard toexplain like spiritual
(23:38):
experiences or like what thatfeels.
Like I'm not great at that,like I'm not good at expressing
my emotions and I feel likethat's a very emotional thing
that I need to learn how toportray better.
But that's really one of themain drivers that kept me
through or got me through thathard time, which is believing
(23:59):
that my prayers were being heardand they were, but that I was
not in it alone and I never feltlike it was, which is a
blessing on its own, but like Ithink when people talk about,
yeah, you have to turn over,turn yourself over to Christ or
like, if they're talking aboutreligion in any way.
(24:20):
For me, it was just like ithelped combat that loneliness
that I felt because, like, myparents didn't know how I was
feeling, my brothers didn't noone really knew what I was going
through mentally at least Um,but Christ did.
He knew exactly how I wasfeeling and exactly what I was
going through mentally at leastUm, but Christ did.
He knew exactly how I wasfeeling and exactly what I was
going through, and just knowingthat helped me just keep
(24:43):
fighting every day.
So that's the first thing Iwould say is unchosen suffering
for me.
I always turn to Christ first,um, but I know that's not
everyone's cup of tea.
It should be, but it's not, andthat's fine, um, and that's
where things like my supportsystem came into play.
Like I was, I got very close tomy family during that time, um.
(25:06):
I also listen to podcasts,which I know that sounds silly,
that it's a support system, likeI would listen to jocko
religiously, um, I got throughall his episodes twice, which is
wow, I didn't know that yeah,it's pretty good.
Um, but just like things likethat, like because I couldn't
(25:26):
watch tv, I'd get migraines, Icouldn't be on any screens,
really, so things like I used toplay video games to decompress
can do that now.
So it's like I just lay in bedand close my eyes and listen to
podcasts.
Ally (25:38):
Um, pretty weird, but did you pretend that you and jocko
were talking?
Brett (25:43):
no, but I like I would pretend like, okay, what would
jocko tell me right now?
Interesting, as weird as thatis too.
So yeah, I, yeah, I mean it's,it's kind of interesting, like
looking back now.
It's.
It's comical in a sense.
Um, like my buddies were jokingcoping.
Ally (26:02):
Yeah, that's like your coping mechanism.
Yeah, I think that's fine, it'shealthy.
Brett (26:05):
But yeah, my buddies were Jocko, chris and uh, so those
are top three good podcastfriends.
I know, yeah, they're my bestfriends during that time, um,
cause I basically wrote off allmy other friends, um, but, yeah,
so I mean like having a goodsupport system where you can
talk to people, and they mightnot understand what you're going
(26:26):
through a hundred percent, butit feels good to talk to someone
.
Yeah, Um, and I think duringthose dark times, it's important
to talk to other people,because isolation is easy and
it's also dangerous.
Um, yeah, you cannot don'tisolate.
If you're going throughsomething difficult, try not to
isolate, try and put yourselfout there.
Ally (26:46):
Reach out to other people, because that will put you in a
dark place that's like what umkim buck on your podcast she
really emphasized that and she'sa therapist like one of the
first things that you need to bedoing if you're struggling
mentally is find your bubbleyeah, and I, like, specifically,
was talking to her about men'smental health, right, and she
was explaining how, like a bigum, a big cause reason.
(27:13):
I don't know what you'retalking about.
Brett (27:14):
Yeah, uh.
A main driver of um depressionnowadays is just the lack of
connection.
Ally (27:19):
Totally makes sense.
Brett (27:20):
Which is so ironic because we're connected more now
than we ever have been.
Ally (27:24):
Yeah.
Brett (27:24):
Um not physically not physically, which is why, like I
love doing these kinds ofpodcasts where we just get to
talk you and I for who knows howlong, but but it's important to
connect with other people andhave that support system, so I
would say that that pushed methrough quite a bit too, just
being able to rely on otherpeople and Sounds like for
(27:49):
chosen suffering.
Ally (27:50):
You talked a lot about good self-talk.
Brett (27:55):
Yeah.
Ally (27:56):
Do you think that also helped you in given suffering
like regular hardship,day-to-day given challenges?
Brett (28:06):
I think it didn't help back then, but it helps now.
Interesting One thing that Ithink I've learned now that I
didn't know then, that endurancesports has taught me is
enduring discomfort.
Yeah, because when you'rerunning like you feel discomfort
(28:26):
in many ways your legs aretired, you're fatigued, you're
starting to black out, like yousaid, your pack's not on right,
like there's lots of things thatare uncomfortable about it Toss
on the heat or whatever theelements are going to throw at
you that day, like it's going tobe uncomfortable, and so that's
like packed into a very shorttime, all that discomfort, and
you just have to keep tellingyourself like I'm going to keep
(28:48):
going, I'm going to keep pushingmyself, I'm going to not like
stop until I'm done.
Ally (28:52):
No quitters.
Brett (28:53):
No quitters and I think that type of mindset when you're
going through unchosensuffering or I guess those
lessons that I learned during myruns and through ultra
marathoning and throughendurance sports has taught me
patience in regular daydiscomforts.
I would say that's moreapplicable now than it was back
then, but back then I wasprobably worse on myself than I
(29:15):
ever was.
Right Like I would avoidmirrors because if I saw myself
I'd be like you skeleton, youugly pieces, like bad stuff.
I beg you are a disgrace Gosh.
Yeah, I would tell myselfreally bad stuff.
Ally (29:29):
Awesome.
Brett (29:30):
So I wasn't mentally in a great place at that time.
But now I think if I went backI would be able to endure it
better.
But again, that was like one ofthe first unchosen suffering
things that I've really had togo through myself.
Ally (29:50):
You've learned since then.
Brett (29:51):
I've learned since then, but I wish I could go back and
tell that kid like hey, don'tworry, like you're going to be
fine.
Yeah, I really wish I could.
But yeah, I mean, I thinkthat's what's interesting now is
like now you and I are goingthrough infertility, which is
something that sucks.
Like wanting to have a kid butnot having the ability to have a
(30:13):
kid sucks.
Ally (30:15):
And then everyone's having kids by accident.
Brett (30:16):
Yeah, everyone has kids we always go around our nieces
and nephews which I'm grateful Ilove having.
Yeah, it's great like have kidsguys um, but like we go see our
nieces and nephews and everytime I leave them I'm like
they're so cute it sucks like Iwant one yeah um, but now I'm
approaching it different andit's like we're just gonna try
(30:38):
everything we can and if thatdoesn't work, we'll find a new
plan.
Um, I think you and I have bothhad tearful nights thinking
about infertility.
Like it sucks, it's hard, butat the end of the day, like,
like what's that mindset goingto get you when you're going
through a hard time Like I?
I still struggle with thatSometimes.
(30:59):
I'm like man, am I even?
Am I a man?
I can't even provide a child tomy wife, like things like that
will go through my headoccasionally.
But then I'm like you know whatit's?
Just, I have a tumor in mybrain that, uh, it's benign,
guys, don't worry about it.
It's not growing, um, and it'stoo small to take out, but it
(31:22):
has damaged my pituitary glandand so my body just doesn't
produce certain hormones.
So that's like a reality I haveto accept.
I'd be like, hey, you know whatthat's, that's just how it is.
There's nothing I can do tochange that situation.
Um, and if I think about itnegatively, then that's only
going to put me in a worseheadspace.
Yeah, so I think it's, you know, learning from.
I'm going to attribute it toendurance sports again.
Ally (31:42):
Really.
Brett (31:43):
Um, yeah, cause, like, those lessons taught me how to
endure discomfort, and it's nota comfortable situation.
It's not comfortable talkingabout it, it's not comfortable
going to doctor's offices andtrying so many different
freaking shots that I have to doyeah, seriously, but it's worth
it if there's a potentialoutcome where we have a kid.
It's like focusing on theoutcome rather than the effort
(32:03):
that goes into it.
So, yeah, it's weird, but Iwant to flip it over to you
because you've also gone througha lot of unchosen suffering.
Ally (32:16):
As everyone does.
Brett (32:17):
Yeah, but I want to, I want to bring it If we, if we
get too personal and just tellme we can edit this out.
Ally (32:22):
But no such thing.
Brett (32:23):
Um, I think something that like people will get mad at
people when they talk aboutunchosen suffering versus chosen
suffering is like whensomeone's diagnosed with a
terminal illness and you had towatch your dad, you know, get
cancer, go through chemo, allthese things.
Um, you had a very closerelationship with him and that
(32:47):
was not a suffering that hechose, but your family got
through and I think you'restronger than like from what
you've told me, than you everhave been really like.
Closer maybe not, but it mightbe speaking for you.
Ally (33:01):
But to each other.
Yeah, oh yeah.
Brett (33:03):
But like how did you get through those times?
Ally (33:11):
Well, everything you've talked about has been a spot on
good plan.
Obviously, everyone's ownexperience is going to tweak a
little differently, but ofcourse, faith is like the hugest
thing ever.
Brett (33:26):
Yeah, let me ask you about that.
How did faith get you throughthat moment?
Ally (33:30):
I got into Christian music a lot, a lot of worship music.
Brett (33:34):
She still likes it, by the way.
Ally (33:35):
I still like it.
I don't listen to it as much asI should.
Brett (33:37):
It's really cute.
Ally (33:43):
Every time things get tough, though, the playlist
makes its way back around, yeah,which is good.
I'm glad.
I think, the idea of justalways.
I think the reason I likechristian music, though, is
because one it invites thespirit, like there's peace where
people are praising the Lord.
Brett (33:57):
Yeah.
Ally (33:57):
And so hearing that through song, I think helps me a
lot.
Just because, even when I waslike driving down the road,
you're having all these negativethoughts, usually it's strictly
out of fear, and so I'd haveChristian music on, because then
, even like my unconscious ishearing that you can overcome
and that Jesus paid the price,like rely on him, and so, even
(34:21):
without me necessarily justlistening to the lyrics a ton,
you're still in an environmentthat is uplifting, and so,
rather than just sulking andjust being depressed in a
bedroom with the lights off andthe windows closed, I tried to
put myself in environments thatwould be encouraging, uplifting.
(34:41):
I went to church a lot.
I went to the temple a lot.
I listened to a lot ofChristian music.
I try to be around other peoplewho I find uplifting and so I
know you obviously were reallysick and so it makes sense that
you were in a dark room and youcan only listen to podcasts and
all that stuff.
Brett (34:56):
Yeah, Everything I was doing you did not do.
Ally (34:58):
Yeah, I didn't do anything that you did, but you also felt
like really crappy.
Yeah, I had nothing I felthorrible emotionally more than
physically, and it took a lot inme to go see the people I love
still or like just get out ofthe house, honestly, because
depression, my depression wassituational, of course, but it
(35:21):
prevents you from wanting to doliterally anything yes like it's
diabolical that it takes somuch strain just to get out of
bed.
Nevertheless, go and contact afriend, get out of the house, go
do anything like go exercise,whatever it is, go to work, and
it's so, so hard to do thosethings.
But I recognize that there is areward to that.
Like I, I recognize an obviousdifference from when I was
(35:44):
putting myself in situationswhere I could feel the spirit or
be around happy people and allthat stuff, all that stuff
versus isolation and quietnesswhere my head could just spin
out of control.
So I'll say that's the firstthing absolutely is putting
yourself in those environmentsthat you can feel peace and joy,
(36:07):
even if you're not able to feelit right.
Then, which is most likely thecase when I was at my worst, it
doesn't matter who I'm around,what I'm listening to, where I
was, you're depressed and that'sjust how it is and that's how
it's going to be and that's okay.
But the effort is there and youcan take confidence that you're
doing the right steps and, overtime, as continuing those habits
(36:31):
of putting yourself in goodenvironments, then, as the not
that grief lightens.
But you have good days, youhave bad days.
If you're still in that habityou'll be able to see like those
little breaks through the crack, like a little bit of light in
your life.
And I think that's where peopleget stuck in the pain of grief
(36:52):
and the darkness is becauseyou're not letting yourself be
in places where you can seecracks of light.
And you just got to hang on tothat, even though it's hard to
say, but that was a huge, hugething for me.
I obviously spent a lot of timewith my family and I tried to
make a lot of memories.
My dad was like a big jokesterand stuff, so he made the
(37:15):
situation lighter, which I'mgrateful for.
He wasn't like woe was me, likeI'm dying, except like he would
.
He'd crack jokes and he wouldlike try to make fun of the
situation a little bit and Iknow he was doing it for himself
.
A lot of it I mean, and us ofcourse, but I imagine that was
(37:35):
his coping mechanism to be ableto joke that he has a port in
his chest to get chemo, like.
I believe that he just had thepersonality to lift where he
stood and I think I just able tounderstand who he was as a
(38:00):
character in a way that I canremember him forever and I try
to live the way he taught ussince he's passed and I think it
helps me feel closer to him andso, although the grief and the
sadness and the emptiness isstill there, it has changed from
just straight sorrow to asacred place where I can live
(38:25):
the lessons he's taught and Ican take some attributes from
him and, by doing so, can feelcloser to him.
Brett (38:31):
Yeah.
Ally (38:32):
Which is so special.
Brett (38:33):
I think it is special He'd be so proud of you for
everything that you're doing.
Ally (38:38):
I hope so.
I think he would be.
I think that's one of thehardest things is when things
are good, because you can't tellhim the good stuff yeah and
obviously you wish he was therewhen things were sad, but now I
have you, for when I'm sad Istill want him there when I'm
happy, to be able to tell himthe things I'm doing, that he
helped push me to become, andit's just too bad that he's not
(38:59):
here to see that outcome.
Brett (39:02):
Well, he checks in on us every now and then with big
birds.
Ally (39:05):
True.
You should probably explainthat.
Brett (39:08):
Oh, every time that, um, I don't remember who told me
this, but I thought it was yourgrandpa.
It might've been my grandpa.
Um, it was my grandpa, you'reright.
But every time that I would seelike a big bird outside, like a
Falcon or a Hawk or an Eagle onthe rare occasions, um my
grandpa would always say likehey, there's a loved one looking
(39:29):
over us.
And so every time Allie and Iare in the car or like on a hike
or something, we see a big bird.
We're like there's Tim areas.
That son of a gun, that son of agun, that son of a gun, but no,
I think that's I don't know.
I one thing that I I think isreally admirable about your
family, um, is how you guys keephim alive, because he has like,
(39:53):
from how you talk about him andfrom how your brother and your
mom talks about him, he changeda lot of people's lives and he
was a very great man don't getme wrong, we still make fun of
him.
Ally (40:06):
I think he would appreciate that though yeah,
yeah, I mean we don't need toput him on that high he was bald
yeah, ew, he had a cul-de-sac,but so I think like treating it
like him as if he was still here, you know, like obviously you
see them in like a brighterlight because they're gone, yeah
, but sometimes I'm like wait,he was actually so annoying
(40:27):
sometimes.
Brett (40:29):
But all in good fun, all in good fun yeah, no I agree I'm
very grateful for that yeah,it's important, like important,
like it's like um with my I'mnot trying to compare my
sickness to your dad passingaway.
It's not not even close, but,like from the lessons I learned
from that time, I've taken theminto who I am and I think it's
(40:52):
made me who I am today.
This podcast wouldn't be aliveif I didn't go through that.
Um, same thing with you, Ithink.
Like you know, you said it likeI want to take these lessons
that he's taught me and, and youknow, show them that.
Hey, I did listen, or likewhatever you're trying to get
across, right?
Um, it's important to keep themalive, but unchosen suffering,
(41:16):
I think, is the worst one.
Ally (41:17):
Oh, absolutely, and you and I were just talking about
how, of course, it's been kindof heavy week last week yeah and
I was, like, just felt likethings after things, and like
the news is always depressing,as is, of course, but it feels
like an eerie feeling it hasbeen feeling so weird and
twitter's been depressing Ican't go on it right now, but
(41:38):
like, yeah, so to give somecontext to listeners if you
haven't heard, but um, charliekirk was assassinated on
september 10th if someone hasn'theard that well, there's a lot
that went on that last week.
Brett (41:52):
Then there's a school shooting in evergreen colorado.
Um, there's a lot that went on.
I don't know what else.
Ally (41:59):
There was a guy that got beheaded in front of his family
at a hotel oh yeah and a fewdays before charlie, the girl
got stabbed on the bus.
That's right, yeah and then itwas 9 11 after charlie, after
charlie, obviously.
Yeah, just a heavy week yeah, Ijust feel like nothing was
uplifting yeah and everyone'ssouls were racked so what do you
do during those times like?
Brett (42:19):
what do you do during times like this?
Ally (42:22):
I rely on my husband, just kidding.
No, I think it goes back.
It goes back to the same thingsthat I did in any form of grief
or sadness is put myself ingood environments first thing.
Do like, rely on faith, let thethe spirit do its job, the holy
ghost.
But as I put myself in goodenvironments, I'm very much an
(42:48):
optimistic person.
I think I think I'm realistic.
I understand that things cansuck, but I have so much faith
in things always working out,whatever that looks like,
whatever the timeline is.
I because, especially now thatmy dad's gone, I think I have
such a stronger faith in anafterlife and happiness forever
(43:10):
and all eternity and eternalfamilies.
Think because of that I havesuch a a more optimistic view of
whether it's a year, 10 years,when you die like, things will
be happy at some point yeah andmaybe I shouldn't say happy, but
(43:31):
you can feel joy still yeah andobviously, like last week,
nothing was affecting mepersonally in my day-to-day life
just because I felt theheaviness, like I still have my
job.
It wasn't like a directrelation.
You can still put yourself inthe good environment, still be
optimistic about the future and,even though you don't see it
(43:52):
right now, you can have a hopefor things to come.
Brett (43:55):
Yeah, I agree with that.
I also like this might not begood advice, but this is what I
do when things to come.
Yeah, I agree with that.
I also like this might not begood advice, but this is what I
do.
When like things get heavy, Ijust go off social media True
Like, because don't look at it.
Yeah, when I, when I go on there, like it just it's just
negative.
Like people are talking to youknow the Charlie Kirk thing.
People were like just shockedlike everyone or some people
(44:23):
were telling stories about himor like whatever it was.
But it's just like you knowwhat I it's horrible that this
happened, but I don't need tosee this 24 7.
So I think, just like smallthings like that, like you said,
so put yourself in goodenvironments, like turn your
phone off, go walk somewhere.
Ally (44:37):
Yeah.
Brett (44:38):
Get out.
Ally (44:39):
I always like the phrase.
This is kind of seems like ajump, but if you want a village,
you need to be a villager.
And I think when you thinkabout like feeling joy and like
being able to be more optimisticand all these things that we've
been talking about, and you say, get off social media, I think
going back how it was beforetechnology maybe not technology,
(45:00):
but social media and like, um,just knowledge at your
fingertips like 2008 yeah 2008take us 2008 I think facebook
was around, but that was like itmaybe
twitter, myspace potentially,but going back to not like that
(45:20):
you have to not have asmartphone and all this stuff,
but doing what you can.
Because it seems like back thenthey had all these human
connections and it seems likethat's when things were prime as
far as um, community and humaninteractions and less diagnosis
and therapy needed, because youhad people to talk to and you
had friends and stuff.
(45:41):
And if you want thatenvironment, if you want to have
people in your corner, thoseconnections, if social media
depresses you, then be avillager, be the one who's
making those connections, be theone that puts the phone away,
goes on, hikes, tries tointeract with new people join
the getting after it community.
Join the getting after itcommunity, going to run, doing
(46:02):
those things and be the person,then Be the person you want to
be.
If you're not liking thefeeling of all the negativity
around you, most things you canblock out just by turning off
your phone.
However, the things that's, thesickness, the death, all that
stuff you can't turn off yourphone.
That's not going to fix theproblem.
But it goes back to what youwere talking about with your
(46:25):
faith and the connections andbeing in good environments.
Brett (46:29):
If someone was going through something really tough
right now, what would you tellthat person?
Ally (46:35):
Well, I'd first ask how their relationship with Jesus is
, but I'm biased, yeah, um,that's always the very first
thing I do and, honestly, youand I talk about this quite a
bit, just between us.
It's hard advice to get to giveand to get, I guess but it's
like how often are you thinkingabout yourself?
(46:57):
I think so much depression andsadness or I guess I shouldn't
say that, but I think it'samplified when we're constantly
thinking about our own problemsand we're constantly thinking
about ourselves.
And I've had friends that hadto be like hey, by the way, it
(47:18):
might help if you stop being soselfish.
And it's terrifying, and I hopeI don't come across that blunt
and rude, but it's because we'vehad experiences that we know
what brings us joy is when weturn outwards.
If you're all in your head, ifyou can't stop thinking of the
same negative stuff, if you'reso against everything about your
(47:39):
life and everything seems likeit's going wrong, maybe it is
because you're so focused on itand maybe it's time to go focus
on somebody else.
Brett (47:48):
I agree very much.
I mean, it wasn't too long agowhere I was in a very dark
depressive phase.
Ally (47:56):
You were sick.
Brett (47:57):
I was sick, but I'm talking about like when we first
got married and you were sick.
I was sick, um, but it wasworse back then.
I just want to make thatclarification Like oh, he was,
yeah, different type of sick.
Ally (48:09):
You weren't, like, bedridden the same way, but I
mean your medications hadchanged.
Brett (48:14):
There was a lot of, a lot of a lot of change going on
like your hormones andchemically things were still off
, yeah, but like to your point,during that time, one of the
reasons I was depressed wasbecause I was thinking about it
so much and then it just gotinto this vicious cycle like I
would only think about it and Iwould like all my thoughts
turned around myself, like theyall focused on myself and excuse
(48:38):
me.
I remember, um, we had a talkone night and after that I was
like I need to change any stepup and I repented to you and to
god and to tim because I feltbad.
Ally (48:56):
Um, my dad's like what am I supposed to do?
Brett (48:59):
yeah, like great thanks, um, but like I started serving
you a lot more and trying tofocus on other people and once I
did that, like it's so weirdand you might not believe me,
but like it was like a flipswitch.
Ally (49:17):
I witnessed it.
Wow, flip switched.
Brett (49:20):
Flip switched.
Wait, switch flipped.
It's like a switch flipped.
Ally (49:26):
Yes.
Brett (49:27):
You flipped a switch on.
Ally (49:28):
Wow, that was hard to understand, for some reason.
Brett (49:29):
Yeah, that was weird.
Ally (49:31):
It's true, though I witnessed it.
Brett (49:32):
Yeah, but it really does.
It can make a huge difference.
And now like it can make a hugedifference, and now like I, I
hold that lesson tight because Inever want to be in that
situation again, and like I willalways try and focus on you
first, before myself, and I feellike that's just an easy way to
not be depressed, true?
and, and it makes me happy,makes you happy and I want to
(49:54):
make it very clear I I stilldeal with depression and I have
OCD, but every time that Idecide to help someone else out,
like Allie said, it really doesit takes my mind off myself.
I don't need to be thinkingabout myself that much.
I'm not that great of a person.
I think of Marcus Aurelius theemperor, who hired a man to
(50:17):
follow him around, saying youare a man like you're not a god.
You might be the emperor ofrome, but you're a man.
and sometimes I have to remindmyself that like I'm just some
guy, like I'm not special you'respecial to me well, yeah,
because you're my wife, right,but like that's really it, like
I'm just a human yeah and so,yeah, I think it takes a lot of
(50:38):
self-reflection, which is why,like journaling has been so
important to me and even duringdark times, like I'll journal
how I feel, and it kind of feelslike I have an outlet.
Yeah, but yeah, it'sinteresting.
Ally (50:51):
I think it's literally I can't speak highly enough about
service, which is funny becausesometimes I have such a bad
attitude about service.
Brett (51:00):
Everyone does, it's inconvenient.
Ally (51:02):
Yeah, and I'm not talking about like when, I'm talking
about service, like if you'rebeing selfish, go do something
for someone else.
I'm not saying you got to bringbrownies over to your neighbor
every day.
Brett (51:10):
You should If they're over 85.
Ally (51:12):
If they're over 85, they deserve brownies every day.
But besides that, I'm notsaying you got to go do some
extravagant things, but evenjust selfishness in terms of
like what your thoughts like areconsumed with, and I think that
that has one.
I think that's one of thebiggest things that changed our
marriage yeah, I think so too Icould do better at serving you.
(51:35):
Still, he's so nice I go.
And what do you say?
Brett (51:39):
you need some water thirsty.
I trained him so well sometimeslike, yeah, I'll be going to
bed, and like I just finishedstretching and like putting you
know lotion on my hands orwhatever I'm doing to hydrate
myself, and then I'm about toget in bed and Allie goes and
then I say, oh, you're thirsty,huh, so thirsty, so I go get you
some water and you're so goodat getting me water.
(52:00):
But it's kind of fun, like it'skind of a fun bit, honestly,
yeah and I'm like, oh, I bettergo get your water.
But like I think it's a joke andI'm really just like helping
you out actually, just likedon't want to get out of bed
like this is great I know, soI'm very grateful and I mean,
you do a lot of stuff for me tootoo I hope you do a lot of
things I hate, sorry, go ahead.
Wait, you just put it on atangent with things you hate.
(52:24):
I was going to say you do a lotof things that I hate.
Ally (52:26):
What does that mean?
Brett (52:27):
Yeah, that's a good point .
Ally (52:29):
You do a lot of things that I hate doing.
I was like what the heck I'mlike?
Maybe this is a topic for adifferent time.
Brett (52:36):
No, I was going to say you help me out with the laundry
.
You go to the grocery storewhen I don't want to go.
Ally (52:41):
That's hilarious.
Brett (52:43):
Those kind of things.
Ally (52:44):
That's so funny.
So yeah, if I had to giveadvice to a friend, it'd be one.
What's the relationship withJesus?
Because your focus should beone, god, two others, three,
yourself.
And if your order is scrambledif your priorities are different
.
Formula, good formula and youlove formulas, I do love math so
if things aren't in that order,you're more likely to be in a
(53:04):
state of selfishness andprobably more likely um symptoms
of depression yeah in ourexperience, zero caveats right,
this is all relative to us.
Right.
Brett (53:22):
Let's wrap this up, because I think there's a lot of
things that we've talked aboutand I want to keep the lessons
sharp and clear.
Okay, and I think those are allgood pieces of advice.
That formula is pretty solidfor getting through hard times.
Ally (53:39):
Like god first, others second, yourself last or
comparable to god, if that'syour thing yeah, whatever it is
a greater purpose.
Brett (53:47):
Yeah, just try and think outside of yourself, um, and if
you're hearing this and you'regetting mad, maybe you need to
do it.
You need to think about someoneelse.
Ally (53:55):
Maybe it's stinging for a reason.
Brett (53:57):
Yeah, and I won't pull my punches.
Go do something nice, butreally chosen.
Suffering, I feel like, is agreat teacher with many life
lessons.
It teaches you how to endureand, in my opinion, it gets you
ready and able to handle thehard things that come up in your
(54:18):
life.
And so why we do hard things, Ithink, ties in perfectly to
that.
We do them so we're ready formoments where we don't get to
choose when it's hard, and so Ithink you know next time, if
you're going through somethingdifficult, always feel free Like
you can reach out to me.
I'm happy to help where I can.
Ally (54:39):
Me too.
Brett (54:40):
Allie too and check out siblings in crime.
It might give you a littlechortle, you might chortle.
Ally (54:46):
It might make you skilled.
Brett (54:48):
No, but I mean, you guys have a good dynamic though.
You guys are fun to listen to.
Yeah, I feel like crime.
That's not your forte, Dina,Don't worry about it, but
anyways, I think it's justimportant.
And my last thing I'll say isjust don't give up.
Like with Allie's run, you knowit wasn't as fast as she wanted
(55:12):
it to be, but she finished.
And when I was sick I couldhave given up many times, but I
didn't.
Allie could have thrown herselfunder the blankets when her dad
was passing away from cancerand taking that attitude and
(55:33):
think that the world threw thaton her and get angry about
everything, but instead decidedto think outside of herself and,
um, I think it's just importantto not give up.
Like there's so much more tolive for.
The trials that we go throughare but a moment and they always
hopefully end.
Um, but yeah, just never giveup.
(55:55):
Stay in the fight.
Ally (55:59):
I like that.
Brett (56:01):
Thanks for coming on.
Ally (56:02):
Thanks for having me.
It's always a pleasure, alwaysfun.
Brett (56:04):
I get to look at you for like an hour.
Ally (56:06):
You look at me all the time.
What do you mean?
I?
Brett (56:07):
know, but like directly.
Ally (56:09):
You're ridiculous.
Brett (56:10):
People are going to start tuning out.
Anyways, I appreciate you guysfor listening to this episode
and, as always, keep gettingafter it.
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