August 19, 2024 • 54 mins
Not your normal 'Getting Better' episode, but more important than your health is your safety.
My mother survived 5 years of a murderous, active stalker, and is sharing her story to empower others dealing with stalkers while also sharing tips and wisdom for personal safety and awareness.
*WARNING: content mentions rape and sexual assault
Birdie 15% off self defense alarm:
https://www.shesbirdie.com/SAVANNAH86190
Victim Resources
https://victimconnect.org/learn/types-of-crime/stalking/
https://helpingsurvivors.org/ (abuse and assault)
Stalking Statistics
https://www.stalkingawareness.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/SPARC_StalkngFactSheet_2018_FINAL.pdf
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I'm Savannah Harding, and this is Getting Better.
(00:09):
Hi, and welcome back to Getting Better.
This is a podcast about health and healing, but today we have a different type of episode
for you.
Today I am sharing a story about a stalker.
Well, there are two stalkers, but I'm getting ahead of myself.
(00:32):
I would like to introduce the first ever guest on Getting Better, Kelly Harding, my mom.
Hi, Kellie.
How are you doing?
Hello, Savannah.
I am so happy to be here.
Thank you.
As many of you know, I recently had my 14th eye surgery, and my mom here has been with
me through every single one, honestly doing more effort than I ever can, driving me to
(00:56):
the appointments, picking up food and medication, comforting me and supporting me through it
all.
She's one of the most loving, empathetic, and fun people I know.
And today you will hear one of the stories I heard growing up, and it's the story of
her stalker.
And mom, when I was younger, you didn't tell me the whole story at first.
(01:18):
Was that because you didn't want to scare me?
Yes.
It was a dark, scary story, and I did not want to unnecessarily make you scared of being
in your own house.
Do you remember how old I was when you first told me, or why you told me in the first place?
You were 13, and I told you because, like any mother of a 13-year-old, trying to make
(01:45):
you aware of your safety and surroundings and why it was important that I knew where
you were at all times.
I think I was also trying to post a picture of me in a bikini, and you were worried that
someone was going to try and do non-nice things to me.
You're absolutely right.
You're absolutely right.
Remember that?
(02:05):
Yes.
I think I posted it anyway.
Yes you did.
Freedom of choice.
Wow.
Wow, okay.
So this episode was inspired by more recent events in my life, and as it's an ongoing
issue right now, I won't share all of the details.
(02:27):
But I have an order of protection out on someone, and it's been going on for the last year,
and has taken a toll on my mental health and is a risk to my safety.
The order recently just went through the week after surgery, had to appear in court with
mom right there next to me with one eye closed and swollen.
(02:51):
But because of this, it just really made me see the importance of sharing stories specifically
for women's health, but men's health and safety as well.
And so mom's story is something that if I hadn't heard it, this order of protection
wouldn't have happened, and I would still be going through the stress of the stalker
(03:12):
every single day.
But because I knew of her story and have heeded her warnings and have heard it back me up
with everything, it just gave me the knowledge and awareness and also the urgency to which
I needed to put in this order for my own safety and feel encouraged enough that I'm not being
(03:34):
dramatic and that it is something that is important to do.
So thank you for that, hun.
You're welcome.
Glad I could make lemonade out of a lemon.
That's a big lemon as you're going to hear.
So even though this isn't a true crime podcast, I think it's extremely important for others
to hear your story, mom, and shed some light on the prevalence of stalking while giving
(03:59):
some insight into what she and I have both learned from our individual experiences.
Okay, shall we begin?
Well, first we're going to just give a definition of stalking.
So stalking is a pattern of repeated and unwanted attention, harassment, contact, or any other
course of conduct directed at a specific person, i.e. the victim, that would cause a reasonable
(04:24):
person to feel fear.
And did you feel fear, mom?
Yes, I was afraid for my life almost every day for five years.
So I want to mention a few statistics about stalking.
In 2019, females were stalked more than twice as often as males.
(04:45):
Nearly one in three women and one in six men have experienced stalking at some point in
their lifetime, and more than half of the victims that were stalked indicated they were
stalked before the age of 25, and one in four were stalked before the age of 18.
In 2019, 3.4 million people, ages 16 and older, were victims of stalking, and less than a
(05:09):
third of all stalking victims reported the victimization to police in that same year.
I think it's very important to mention that the vast majority of stalking victims are
stalked by someone they know, 40% by a current or former intimate partner, and 42% by an
acquaintance.
And 11% of stalking victims have been stalked for five years or more.
(05:33):
And mom, you've fallen that 11%?
Yes, I do.
How old were you when you were first stalked?
I was 18 years old.
I was a senior in high school.
And so now mom is going to go through and give her story of her stalking experience.
This is a light word for that.
But before she goes into that, I want to give a warning for any triggers.
(05:57):
We will be mentioning rape, molestation, attempt to murder, and just overall stalking.
Is there anything to add to that?
That's what it sounds about, right?
That's great.
Okay.
I guess, do you want to take it away from the top?
Sure.
This is a story of someone who stalked me and the whole experience ended up with him
(06:23):
waiting for me in my bedroom with a knife and a gun, calling me where I was and told
me to go home.
And he was waiting for me.
But let me back up just a little bit to tell you how it started.
I was a senior in high school and I was a cheerleader at our local high school.
And somebody had seen me at a wrestling match that I was cheering for.
(06:47):
And unbeknownst to me at the time, he followed me when I left the game.
At that time, my girlfriends and I would often go dancing after a match because back then
in Ohio, you could be 18 and go to clubs and dance.
So it was a Friday night.
We want to go dancing.
And so off we went with all our girlfriends.
(07:08):
While I was at the club, this creepy drunk guy came up and started bothering me and wanted
me to dance.
He wouldn't leave me alone.
And this really nice guy came up and said, hey, is he bothering you?
And I said, yes, he is.
And he said, do you want me to sit with you?
So he'll go away.
And I said, well, that's really nice.
(07:29):
Thank you.
And so he did and talked to me that evening.
And then my girlfriends and I were getting ready to leave.
And he said, hey, why don't I walk you guys out to your car?
That way you know that you're safe and that creepy guy won't bother you.
And we thought, wow, how nice of him to walk us to the car.
Unbeknownst to me at the time, he was the stalker.
(07:51):
So he walked me and my friend to our car.
I proceeded to get in my car and drive home to my parents' house where I lived.
He followed me.
I did not know this at the time.
So now he knew my name and he knew where I lived and he knew what kind of car I drove.
And where you went to high school.
And where I went to high school.
But I didn't see him at the high school.
(08:12):
So I didn't know he, that's where it first started and where he first saw me at that
time.
I didn't know that.
And so two days later, I get a phone call from him.
His name was Robbie.
And back then everybody's phone number was listed in the phone book.
So my name, my address, my phone number was all there.
(08:32):
So it wasn't strange to get a call from someone that you've met.
He shortly started acting kind of weird like he told me.
He was sitting in a bean bag chair eating a candy bar in his underwear.
And I thought, that's weird.
And I said, you know, thank you for calling.
(08:53):
I appreciate that.
I have a boyfriend.
I've been dating someone for years.
So I'm not interested.
And I won't be returning your calls.
And that was that.
Well, all of a sudden I started getting in the middle of the night harassing phone calls.
It would wake me up in the middle of the night.
I'd answer my phone.
And half the time I didn't know I was answering my phone because I was such a heavy sleeper.
(09:15):
My mom said, who were you talking to last night?
I'd be like, what are you talking about?
She goes, yeah, your phone rang.
And so I started getting these, what we would call a harassing prank phone call.
First he would just say my name and then he'd hang up.
And then it's, so he'd say like Kelly and then hang up.
Kelly, are you there?
(09:35):
Are you sleeping?
And I'm like, huh?
Who is this?
And then he'd hang up.
And then as time progressed, he started telling me what he wanted to do to me sexually.
And I would, of course, hang up.
And it got to the point where he was calling and he was telling me that he was going to
(09:58):
rape me.
And he was threatening to kill me.
And he was very, very vivid in what he was going to do to me.
And so at that time stalking was not a felony.
And so the only thing I could really do is I unlisted my phone number, got a new phone
number, so he would not be able to call me anymore.
(10:20):
This was way before caller ID and all those things.
At that point, how do you try contacting the police when he mentioned what he was threatening
to do to you?
No, I didn't take the threats real serious because they were so weird at the time.
And that's all that had happened at that time.
(10:40):
Did you tell your mom and dad?
Oh, yes.
Yes.
My mom and dad knew because they'd hear the phone ring in the middle of the night and
they'd hear me pick up the phone.
So my parents were aware that somebody was calling and making these calls.
Were they upset or were they also kind of like this is just kids being kids?
No, they were upset.
My dad's like threatening what he would do if he caught the person.
(11:03):
So that's when we decided, well, the best thing to do is just to get an unlisted phone
number.
And so when was the next interaction?
The two of you had.
And so I got the unlisted number and obviously the phone calls stopped and we thought, great,
this is super.
However, at that same time, weird things started happening at my house.
(11:24):
For example, a neighbor's ladder was stolen and we found it underneath my bedroom window.
I have no idea how it got there.
Another time there was a tire underneath the kitchen window and you could tell someone
had been standing on it, looking in the windows.
These events though happened over months.
And so we did not know if this person was the same person making these calls or if it
(11:49):
was maybe somebody else watching us.
Is there something with patio furniture?
Yes, I was watching TV in the family room with my then boyfriend.
And the next morning when we got up, my parents noticed that the patio furniture had all been
turned so he could sit on the patio and watch me and my boyfriend through the curtains.
(12:14):
And he could see right through the crack of the curtains.
We were just laying on the floor watching TV.
At that point were you paranoid already, like looking around or were you not thinking much
of it due to the calls?
You didn't think there was a person there yet?
We knew we had what we called a peeping Tom back then.
So, but we didn't know who the peeping Tom was peeping.
Me or my brother who was two years younger than me, was it some girl watching him?
(12:39):
We had no idea at the time.
So it was a general anxiety.
And then it progressed, it got worse, there was a snowstorm.
My parents were out of town and I was home alone because I had to work.
I worked at retail at the time and I got up in the morning and I saw that there were footprints
in the snow leading up to the front door and they stopped.
(13:01):
And I thought, well, that's weird.
Where'd they go?
Then I saw that the footprints went around to the side of the house and they stopped
at the back door.
And then the footprints went around to the back of the house and stopped at the kitchen
window.
And I thought, where did the footprints go?
And I look up and they were on the roof.
So somebody had looked through the windows and then found where I was going to be sleeping
(13:23):
and got up on the roof and was looking through a window and the roof.
And at that point I started to get scared.
So at this point as a peeping Tom and then looking through your window, did you try
contacting the police again?
Yes.
At that time we did contact the police because we knew somebody was looking in the windows
and my car had been broken into, but he took personal items.
(13:48):
He did not take the car keys, which were there because we lived in a, we thought a very safe
place at the time and he did not take anything valuable.
So we were starting to see that it was targeted at me.
And then is that when grandpa tried to set the booby traps?
When was that?
So grandpa set the booby traps right about then and what he would do is seems like every
(14:12):
time my dad was out of town, grandpa for you, this peeping Tom would leave evidence that
he'd been around.
We'd find evidence that he had been around.
And so we had no idea who it was, but we thought somebody's watching the house.
So my dad would stay outside in the backyard and hide in the bushes until six o'clock in
(14:32):
the morning.
And then he put wires to booby trap the backyard to see where he was coming in and which direction
he was going and my dad would go inside to take a shower to go to work and the wires
would trip.
And grandpa, he's a veteran, right?
He doesn't mess around.
He yes, he is a veteran and he also has a little black belt in him.
(14:56):
So he was not messing around, but we could not seem to catch this guy.
And then one summer night it all accumulated.
Well, before that, didn't he call you at your boyfriend's dad's house or something like
that?
No, that that was after.
Yes.
Yes, there's another incident.
(15:17):
So it's summertime.
My dad is out of town.
I work at a department store till nine o'clock at night because my dad was out of town when
I went out with her girlfriends.
I worked till nine and my brother went out with his friends.
I got home back to my parents house about 9 30 and talked on the phone for about a half
hour, but then just felt too scared and wanted to leave and I went over to wanted to go to
(15:41):
my boyfriend's house and wait for him to get home from his late job.
And so I gathered my stuff to go over and my parents live in a tri level where there's
the main floor where the main door is.
And then you can go up six stairs to the bedrooms or down six steps to the lower level.
So I went to go out the front door and I realized how dark it was out there.
(16:04):
And I put my hand on the door knob and a voice said, don't go out the front door, my head,
this voice, go out the back door.
So I locked the door and I turned around when downstairs to the spooky dark lower level.
And I got down there and the voice of my head said, no, turn around, go back out the front
door.
So I turned around and I went out the front door and got in my car and be notes to me at
(16:29):
the time when I was at the front door with my hand on the door knob, this stalker had
unscrewed the front porch light and was getting ready to come into the house for me.
And I pushed the button and locked it.
He saw that I turned and went downstairs through the side lights.
So he went around to the back door to get me and I had turned around and gone out the
(16:49):
front.
So I get to my boyfriend's house 20 minutes away and the phone rings and I'm at my boyfriend's
house, I'm the only one there.
And this person says, Kelly, I've been tapping your line.
I know exactly what you've been doing.
If you don't give me $50, I'm going to tell your boyfriend what you've been doing.
(17:12):
I didn't think I hadn't been doing anything.
Like what was I getting blackmailed for?
I was like, I'm like, what, what are you talking about?
He knew my name.
He had my full name and he knew exactly how long it would take for me to get home from
my boyfriend's house.
He said, go home, get $50 and I will call you and I will tell you where to meet me to
(17:33):
give me the $50.
If you don't, I'm going to tell your boyfriend all about what you did.
Again, I wasn't thinking, what did I do?
I was just thinking, how does this guy know where I am?
How does he know my boyfriend's name?
And scared and I was by myself.
So that was right after you had gone out the front door, the back door, then the front
(17:55):
door finally.
Yes, yes.
And I called the police.
It was a Friday night and they're like, oh, it's okay.
Someone's just giving you pranks and I had to beg them to come over.
I said, no, you don't understand.
I'm scared.
This has been going on.
I'm by myself.
He has threatened me.
Police sent a police officer over.
So finally they did and the police officer got there and the phone rang and the police
(18:18):
officer said, answer it.
So I answered it.
Hello.
And he said, Kelly Harding.
Oops.
Kelly Maine.
I did it for the last name then.
Why haven't you left yet?
And I said, I'm getting stuff together.
You've got 20 minutes to get here.
Get here now.
And the police took the phone from me and said, this is officer so and so and he hung
(18:42):
up.
So this is still at your boyfriend's house.
The officer came there.
Yes.
My boyfriend's house was in a very unsafe part of town because we were college students
at the time and he waited until my boyfriend got home and we decided that we were going
to go over to my house to see what was going on.
(19:04):
So I called home and my little brother had a midnight curfew and it was 10 after 12.
So I called phone rings, phone rings and finally he answers.
I said, hey, where were you?
You're 10 minutes late.
I said, this guy that's been calling, this guy that's been doing all these harassing
phone calls and this people tell me he called and he's going to call the house and he's
going to tell me where to meet him.
(19:25):
So the phone might ring and I said, you know, what took you so long to get to the phone?
He said, I couldn't see anything.
All the lights were out.
And I said, I left every light on in the house.
He's like, no, all the lights are out.
And I said, go to the front door and do me a favor.
(19:45):
Open the front door and screw in the light bulb at the front door and see if it screws
in.
And he's like, what are you talking about?
So just do it.
And he did.
Somebody had unscrewed the light bulb.
He came back in.
I told him I was on my way and he said, I hear someone upstairs.
The more specifically what it is.
Toilet flush.
He heard a toilet flush upstairs.
(20:07):
He's like, there's somebody upstairs.
And I was like, quick, run next door to the neighbors.
So he ran.
He ran to a tree, practically knocked himself out on the way over there because it was after
midnight.
I called the police and said, you know, this band who had called, there was somebody in
the house.
Can you please go over and check?
And they said they would go check and they thought everything would be fine.
(20:30):
So we waited.
Did you call grandma at that time?
Did she know what's going on?
Grandma did not because that was before cell phones.
And she had been out.
I knew she was going to be getting home, but at that point we were just waiting for the
police to go to the house to see if there was anything.
And the police called.
Like what if grandma went home in the meantime?
(20:51):
The police were at the house looking through the house.
Surprise.
No, the police went to look at the house and my brother came back to the house and they
said, there's no sign of breaking and entering.
Everything's okay.
Your brother must just have heard the water heater turning on or something.
And I said, okay, so Scott, that's my brother.
I said, you know, I'll be home in 20 minutes.
(21:14):
Mom should be home any second.
The police will wait for you.
And I got in the car and went home.
And wait, first of all, your boyfriend didn't like drive home with you.
Oh, yes, he did.
So he was with, no, he was with me.
Sorry.
He was with me.
We got to my parents' house.
My mom and dad, I mean, sorry, my mom and brother were there and I said something about
the lights being out and where was he and what tooks along and at that point he looked
(21:39):
around.
My brother did and realized that the note that we usually keep on the floor wasn't on
the floor saying where everybody was and when we'd be home.
That's how we communicated back then.
Opened the trash can and found glass in the trash can.
So I went to the kitchen window and opened the drapes and the window was completely broken
and all the glass was in the trash can along with the notes of where we were and what time
(22:03):
we'd be home.
And wasn't there pictures turned over or broken?
Yes.
What happened when I saw that glass, I got very angry and scared.
I called the police and said, you need to come back.
There was a breaking and entering.
There's glass in the house.
I found butcher knives from the kitchen all over the house.
(22:25):
My room had been trashed.
My mattress flipped.
Clothes that I had that were black had been ripped in two.
And there was a pantyhose shoved in the corner of our desk in the kitchen that had a hair
in it.
Okay.
First of all, the police did not do their job at all.
The fact that you noticed that right away.
(22:46):
And when you say the knives were all over the house, what do you mean by that?
We had a butcher block with knives in the kitchen and the knives were missing from the
butcher block and like the big butcher knife was on the dining room table.
You know, they had a lace tablecloth at the time.
So it was really obvious.
There's just a butcher knife sitting on the table.
(23:08):
Another knife was on the counter in the bathroom.
Another knife was in the kitchen on the counter.
Another knife was upstairs in my bedroom.
And it was very clear.
Like every picture of me and my boyfriend were flipped down.
And then pictures of me from various times that my parents had were sitting all around
(23:30):
the house.
That's so, that gives me the creeps.
The pantyhose, did you go and see if they were yours?
What was your first reaction to that?
Well, I did.
I looked at them and recognized immediately they weren't mine because of the color and
size at the time.
And then I smelled the foot of the pantyhose and could tell it'd been worn by somebody
(23:55):
who had a foot in it at some point.
And then I saw the blonde hair and I was so scared and so angry that the police officers
had missed this completely and had poo hooted.
The police came, they did the report, they left and the phone rang downstairs in the
kitchen.
Okay.
I picked up the phone in the kitchen and a voice said, that wasn't very nice.
(24:20):
Don't ever call the cops again.
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, and hung up.
Did you recognize the voice at all or try to think of who it was at that time?
I did not recognize the voice.
I recognized the voice as the same voice of what had been calling me and harassing me
and stalking me and making the phone calls, but I did not know who it was.
(24:44):
And what was your family and friends' reactions at that point?
Obviously, I was very scared.
We had no idea who it was.
It was clear that he had targeted me.
We immediately filed police reports.
I started getting phone calls again because my phone bill was in the kitchen and when
he broke in, he saw my private number.
(25:06):
So he started calling me again.
So annoying.
The way tapping on a line is, back then, is you had someone put a tap on your line for
two weeks and if there was no activity, they take the tap off.
That was it.
So we put the tap on two weeks, no calls.
As soon as we took the tap off, the calls would start up again.
(25:27):
So from August till April, we would have the tap on, the tap off, and the calls were coming
and going.
And I was never home by myself.
I was afraid to take a shower with my eyes closed so I kept my eyes open.
And then finally, on Easter Sunday, he called 25 times and they were able to catch the
(25:49):
line and we found out who it was.
Did you answer the phone at any time during the 25 times?
Were you not home?
No.
We were having Easter dinner at my sister's house so I didn't even know the calls had
come through on my phone.
And so once they got him, they just got the location or the number.
How did they catch him at that point?
(26:10):
They had a name and an address and called me and said, do you know who this is?
And they said, his name is Robert E. Stevens.
I'm like, I don't know of Robert E. Stevens.
And then they said, well, he lived and then it hit me, Robbie, Robbie Stevens, that guy,
(26:31):
that's who it is.
And he actually went to the same college I went to.
So I knew who it was at that point.
Was that deliberate of him to go to the same college or was it kind of like everyone kind
of funnels in there?
He was a year ahead of me.
And so I don't know if it was deliberate.
It was deliberate when he would follow me to my classes and show up everywhere I was
(26:55):
on campus.
So he was deliberately following.
And didn't you teach a class, TA class?
I did.
I taught a class on interpersonal communications and I'd be standing there teaching my class
and he would be standing right outside the door staring at me.
And so I would just start to tell the class about him and who he was.
What would you say?
(27:16):
What do you mean?
I'd say that I have this guy who has been stalking me and he actually was arrested.
It was before it was a felony and his case got 18 months jail time, 18 months probation
and 18 months of counseling and a restraining order.
(27:38):
And it was after the police came back and searched your room or who found things under
the mattress.
My mattress had been flipped in my room.
So things shredded everywhere.
My dad had a handgun and he always kept it in his nightstand and it was gone.
It was missing the night that Robbie came into the house.
(28:02):
The handgun was missing.
And six months later, my parents were flipping their mattress and found it under the mattress.
He had taken it from the nightstand knowing I'd probably go for it and had put it under
the mattress to use on me.
So when he got arrested, did he get arrested just for stalking or was that attempt of murder?
(28:22):
What was, do you remember the charge?
At the time it was a stalking charge before it was a felony.
I learned that every time you file a report that counts as a count against him.
And I had only filed two reports because I didn't see the sense in saying he did it again
because it was happening all the time.
(28:43):
And they didn't take you seriously.
And then even when it was so serious, they did a half ass job or half, sorry, I don't
want to cuss a half booty job.
Yes.
Turns out the detective who had my case was suspended because he had not followed through
and he had failed so miserably in his job.
So at this point you were in college, he's still harassing you.
(29:05):
This is at least two years into it.
Yes.
The restraining order still stood.
I had to move out of my house with my parents and moved into a house that my name could
not be attached to at all address wise.
So I could be safe and he found me at this safe house, so to speak.
(29:27):
He would show up when I was out with my friends and just happened to be standing three feet
away from me.
And I called the police and reported that he was not obeying his orders and nothing happened
until I got another call.
Two years later, turns out Robbie had been very active and he had a 16 year old girl
(29:51):
trapped in a car and he attempted rape and she escaped and she got out and they caught
him because he was the assistant football coach at the high school she attended.
He plea bargained to 32 cases.
32?
32 cases.
Of what?
What kind of cases?
(30:12):
He plea bargained for the stalking.
So the phone calls, the harassment, the breaking and entering, the threatening of life, he
actually had raped a girl but she was young and did not want to pursue what she would
have to go through to press charges at the time.
So he was put in jail a second time.
(30:33):
I know you mentioned he was an ROTC.
What else did he do?
How does he have this much time on his hands?
He was an ROTC so he would go away for weekends.
He was actually married at the time and so he would just tell his wife that he had ROTC.
He also worked for UPS and he worked the night shift so he was done at 2 o'clock in the morning
(30:56):
so that's why there was so much activity after 2 a.m. is because he got off work and that's
when he'd come and look in the windows and threaten me.
So he got arrested a second time.
I'm just curious was he still married?
Did his wife stay with him?
He was married and had twin little girls that were 3 years old.
His wife had no idea that he had even been arrested the first time.
(31:18):
His dad had got him out of jail and they covered for him saying that he was away on ROTC.
And so he got arrested the second time.
And is this when grandpa appeared in the news?
Yes.
There was a hearing for the second time around and I was working at the time and could not
go to this hearing where they were going to give him his punishment.
(31:41):
And the judge said, does anybody have anything they'd like to say before I say what's going
to happen?
And my dad got up and he said, five years ago we trusted you to get this guy off the
street and take care of him and you said you'd keep him off the street and take care of him
and you didn't.
And he's back on the street and if you don't get him off the street now he's going to end
(32:02):
up in a body bag.
Wasn't it in the paper the next time?
He was on the news.
Fred Main victims father.
And I kept getting calls, Kelly, it was your dad on the news.
Did you, did someone stalk you?
And it kind of came full circle in a way because I was staying with our grandparents, same ones,
(32:23):
going through the court issue of my own order of protection with mom right next to me.
And so we have recounted the story and heard a little bit more from their point of view.
And they were definitely mad and protective and worried for you.
And grandpa definitely did his best to keep you, keep you safe.
And so then what was the end of the stalking?
(32:45):
I know you had to go to his house at one point.
How was that?
Yes, they had me go to his house because he was married.
They would not be able to tell the difference between his wife's clothes and my clothes.
And so after the first arrest, the police took me to his apartment and said, we just have
to go through and see if you recognize anything that's yours.
So I'm opening drawers and slowly going through everything.
(33:08):
He goes, is that how he went through your drawers?
I said, no, he goes, how did he go through your drawers?
So I pick up the door and I just dump the whole thing on the floor.
I'm like, like this.
And so we actually found 13 drivers license of other girls, 13 IDs, mine included, because
he had broken into my car before and stole my driver's license.
(33:32):
We had found Polaroid pictures of girls in compromising positions and drugs.
Well, I'm a little, I didn't know about that.
I'm a little speechless for that.
That's really creepy and gross.
And so how long did he go away for?
Again, this was before it was a felony.
So he went to jail for five years and he got out.
(33:54):
And back then we still had phone books.
So I could see exactly where he was and where he lived in Ohio where this happened.
But since then in the years past, his name does not pop up anywhere.
He does not exist anywhere.
His name has been wiped from everything.
So that second call you got from the police saying he was arrested, that was the last
you've ever heard about him or from him.
(34:15):
He's never contacted you since that happened.
No.
He was in jail and then I moved to a different state or across the country actually.
So I felt safe because there were some girls that had moved to New York.
And had gotten married and was pregnant and he was still stalking them.
Did it take a while for you to feel less paranoid and less worried for your safety?
(34:39):
Yes.
I did not close my eyes in the shower for many, many years.
And I was always careful of my surroundings and had learned how to defend myself with
self-defense, how to shoot a gun and how to minimize any chance that he could get me
(35:01):
again.
Now, I want to just go back to that instance where you were going out the front door and
you heard a voice and you went downstairs, heard the voice and went right back upstairs.
And she missed him and escaped before he could realize that she went out that middle door.
And if she hadn't had listened to the voice, which I think you've told me you think that's
(35:25):
the Holy Spirit talking to you, which I don't know what else it would be.
If you hadn't had listened to that and acted upon that, I don't know if either of us would
be here.
Yes.
Stalkers tend to get more aggressive and braver.
And so he was just amping up what he was doing.
And we actually knew the details of him outside that door because that was part of the plea
(35:47):
bargain.
And he told the police exactly what he had been doing and how he'd been watching me and
following me and stalking me.
And so we're going to wrap it up here, but going off of that intuition and discernment
and actually acting upon that sensation of, okay, there's something else telling me to
go somewhere.
(36:07):
What else would you give as insight or tips?
I don't really want to say advice because every situation is different with stalking,
but what would be your two cents?
If you feel like you're being stalked or you're being followed, trust your gut instinct.
I think that God gives us that gut instinct for our survival and file a report, call your
(36:29):
local police station, find out what is the criteria in that city for stalking and reporting,
make notes of everything.
Every time you feel like it's happening, make notes, record it, keep a list.
If you ever see someone following you, record it with your phone and do not minimize that
(36:50):
fear that you're feeling.
I kept thinking I was overreacting and I was making a big deal out of it and I wasn't.
And even back then there was more victim shaming and blaming.
Did you feel like that from other people or was that more of just kind of internal societal
pressure that you felt?
The police officers like, well, what were you wearing?
(37:12):
You know, I was a cheerleader.
Classic.
Did anyone else make you feel like it was your fault?
There was insinuations like, well, do you know this person?
Are you sure you haven't ever been with him that you didn't talk to him?
And he said, oh no, she wanted me to call her.
She wanted me to come over.
She wanted all this.
(37:34):
Fortunately at that point, they did not listen.
Yeah, fortunately.
Well, I really don't know what to say after all that.
You know, she didn't tell me all of that when I was younger for good reason because it is
scary and we both have anxiety and I think that would have made it a little harder.
But because of the story that she shared, you know, my friends grew up hearing the story
(37:58):
too to help kind of keep them safe.
And like she said, it wasn't the creepy guy hitting on her at the bar.
It was the nice guy who offered to take her to her car.
And this isn't to fear monger or make you worry on top of what we especially as females
already stress about almost every single day, at least for me.
(38:21):
I'm checking every time I get into my car.
But it's to share that it is very prevalent and people are dealing with this and it is
so serious.
Your safety and your life is the most serious thing in your life.
And so it should be taken with the most seriousness.
I don't know what else would you say about that?
(38:43):
It's about recognizing the danger and I had to do a lot myself to keep myself protected
and safe.
And that's still the case, but you have to be proactive and you have to protect yourself
and trust your gut instincts.
And you just don't know who it could be.
In this case, it was the clean cut ROTC nice guy.
(39:08):
So we're wrapping things up and thank you mom for being the first guest on the podcast,
even though this is a different type of episode.
But do you have any parting words of advice or messages for any people out there dealing
with this or worried that they're going to deal with this or having already dealt with
(39:29):
this?
Yes.
I have advice inside you, trust your gut and report and document everything you see.
It's better to be mistaken and overreact than it is the opposite.
That's great.
And tell your friends, not just tell the police, but tell your people, share your location
(39:50):
and that in itself helps bring that affirmation that you are fighting for the right thing
and not overreacting.
That's all that we have today.
Thank you for being here mom.
Thank you for having me.
One last thought.
My mother always said, shut your drapes at night.
Shut your drapes.
Well, I'm laughing because the world just loves unfortunate events sometimes.
(40:18):
And I just dropped my mom off at the airport.
And when I returned, I had a letter from the court clerk county or whatever it's called
and my stalker has appealed the order of protection.
So I have to go back to court next week and fight again for my own safety and for this
(40:40):
legal order of protection that helps keep me safe and less stressed and less traumatized.
So the timing of this is quite ironic, but I do feel safer having already put in that
order and having these reports made.
And the judge when I was in zoom court a few weeks ago was fantastic.
(41:05):
Everyone I've worked with or talked with in the Nashville court system has been super
understanding, really affirming and just super kind and sensitive with everything and very
informative.
So I have more faith in the system here specifically and I really do feel empowered more by my
(41:27):
mom's story.
I'm so glad that I have started to deal with this because it's not dealt with yet.
I'm so glad that I started to deal with this before it could ever escalate because my case
is a more mild case, but that's because I knew where it could lead knowing my mom's
story.
(41:47):
So I hope today that you don't feel more afraid.
I'm really wanting to just give another story, another stalker testimony to help empower
and bring awareness to an issue that people deal with on a daily basis.
So I want to give some tips I want to say because like I said before, advice seems like
(42:12):
the wrong word because every circumstance is different, different cops and officers and
law enforcement will tell you to do different things, but from the general consensus, do
not interact with the stalker.
Do not provoke or try to aggravate.
(42:32):
So with my circumstance that I'm dealing with, I have to pretend like they don't even exist.
And so I don't have a lot of video or phone recording one because the timing of it is
always different every time.
So I'm not prepared to have my phone ready to go.
My hands are normally full, but I also am trying not to give any satisfaction or give
(42:54):
any, any reason for it to escalate because I'm also afraid as well.
And so it's kind of like the fright or flight type thing in mine is to turn around, pretend
like this person doesn't exist.
Don't give them the satisfaction of them being creepy.
So the first tip I have is to just not interact.
(43:17):
Do not interact.
Do what you can to not provoke the person or escalate the situation.
Again, like I said mine specifically, I had to pretend like they didn't exist.
Other times you should scream.
You should call 911.
You should maybe get some attention your way so that they go away.
It really again is a case by case basis.
(43:37):
I didn't know when the beginning was because when something creepy happens to you, you
don't think it's going to keep happening to you every single day, you know, but maybe
in the beginning, if I had screamed or told people to look this way or called 911 right
away, it would have been different.
But at that same time, it's a repeated pattern of behavior.
(43:59):
And so just the first time probably wouldn't have helped.
But it goes into my second piece of advice is if you do notice something creepy, if someone
has a weird interaction with you as frustrating as it is to have to go out of your way, I
want you to write it down.
I want you to take note and put any details that you think are pertinent or even not pertinent
(44:21):
to the certain event and call 911 or call the non-emergency line.
There are non-emergency lines everywhere.
You just look it up, just call 911 and ask to be taken to the non-emergency line if it's
that worrisome.
But call the non-emergency line and give a report because the more reports that you have
(44:41):
put down in the system, it's kind of like tick one, tick two, tick three against this
person and you have evidence.
You have specific evidence.
And when you do that for my circumstance, they sent out an officer to come check in with
me.
And that way you do also have that protection.
And you can ask for drive-bys for an officer or a sheriff to just drive by your street.
(45:08):
At a certain time, you can even ask for it to be scheduled.
And so if it's something where you feel unsafe at a certain location, ask for someone to
drive by.
That's what they're there for.
They're doing it to protect you.
The worst they can say is no.
Now these next tips are for your awareness.
(45:28):
These are things that I think are just good to practice.
Again, not trying to make you more fearful or more anxious and stressed, but it's just
good practice.
So to be aware of your surroundings, I want you to look around.
We want that head on a swivel.
Just always know where you are.
(45:49):
I personally have a blind spot, so my neck is always twisting around to make sure nobody's
there.
If you're on your phone, put it on speaker to talk to somebody.
You don't want to have your hearing at all impaired.
So if you're listening to music, just take out one headphone.
Or if it's at night, just don't listen to music.
Wait till you get into your car.
(46:09):
And then when you get into your car, get into the habit of locking your doors right away.
It's kind of annoying.
Once you build the habit, I promise it's just easy.
It will become second nature.
Be aware of locking your keys in the car on accident if you do this.
Just try to make sure you don't lock yourself out of your car, but it's safer to lock you
(46:29):
in and just diminish that risk of someone trying to come into your car.
Every state and sometimes cities have their own laws on this, but carry pepper spray or
carry a taser or my sister just got me something called a birdie, which when you pull it out,
has this loudest siren whistle and light ever.
(46:53):
And it's just about the size of your middle finger.
It's pretty inconspicuous, comes in really cute colors.
And I have a 15% off code up in the description of this episode.
So safety and savings.
And it's honestly a really good gift for people going off to college or moving, or if you're
just trying to not carry pepper spray or a taser, it's a really good alternative.
(47:19):
And honestly, you could carry a birdie, a pepper spray and a taser and just really kind of
triple threat it.
But you know, sometimes you can't travel with a pepper spray and taser.
So highly recommend the birdie.
And just having that on you, even if you're not keeping it prepped and ready to go at
any instance helps make you feel a little bit safer, you know, that you have some tool
(47:40):
that can help you and your safety.
Like my mom said, shut your curtains.
We love that natural light.
But at night, you just want to close those curtains.
Privacy is a privilege and you should use it to your safety.
What I wish I had done is write down every single instance that this creeper stalked
me because I had multiple.
(48:02):
I had 10 just off the top of my head of when I made reports and texted people and wrote
it down in my car when he got a new license plate and a new car.
Like I said, I was observant.
I made sure I knew what was my situation and could give any information when asked, but
I could have jotted down 50 instances and sitting here, I'm going to go back and go
(48:25):
through all my texts, all my phone calls, all my Instagram DMs, a friend's notifying
them what's going on and write that down for this appeal because it's such a frustration
and it's so bothersome.
Like I'm stressed, I'm scared, I'm anxious, I'm fearful.
(48:45):
It's kind of traumatic.
And I have to go fight for my own safety, which is so, I mean, you're kind of getting
this raw reaction right now, but mine's a mild case.
You know, my mom going through everything she went through is just so much more intense
and just, first of all, you don't know what people were going through.
(49:10):
It's just like one part, one sliver of her life that she went through and was going through.
And I mean, you know, right now I'm going through eye surgery and having this on top
of it is just so, it's laughable because it's so utterly ridiculous that people have to
deal with this.
(49:30):
So that kind of turned into a little bit of a rant, but it's live in my life.
It's ongoing right now and that's why I wanted to share this today.
Now I'm going to post some resources on my website and in the link of this description,
I'm going to put down some facts about stalking and kind of what you can do in that moment,
(49:55):
but be aware of your surroundings.
Write everything down, make no report anything you can.
Use law enforcement as low as my expectations were.
It's the only option I have and it's what they're there for and they really exceeded
my expectations here.
So the worst they can say is no.
And so really try to utilize them for your own safety.
(50:18):
And the biggest thing I want you to take away from this story is to trust your instincts.
Sometimes we don't know the difference between anxiety or intuition and I really want you
to just act upon what you know is your intuition and practice that discernment.
If something feels off, get out of there, contact somebody, share your location, you
(50:42):
can get on the phone with 911, utilize them.
Even if it seems trivial, it's worth it to protect your life.
And sometimes it's easier said than done and I know there's still a lot of stigma sometimes
around stalking in terms of victim blaming and shaming and even my grandma who is a wonderful
(51:06):
woman, she lived in an age where people assumed it's the victim's fault or he didn't really
mean that.
I mean, you heard my mom's story.
She just wasn't believed fully.
And my grandma even before I went into my court date was like, well, are they going to ask
you what you wore?
You know, and my mom goes, which time, the first time the 30th, the 40th or the 50th,
(51:29):
you know, which day do you want?
And it's true.
It's not about what you wear.
Obviously, it's the creepy person.
I just want to say if you are going through this to keep fighting for your safety, it's
such a burden to have to take your safety into your own hands.
And it's very inconvenient to go through all this on top of the stress and on top of the
(51:51):
fear that we, I'm saying we as in women, but anyone who's dealing with this, any type of
person, keep fighting for your safety.
Find those people who will advocate for you and keep making those reports.
You know, if someone you used to date keeps texting you or calling you, keep those.
Keep the phone reports.
(52:12):
Try to record a conversation if you can.
It will empower you more than I think it will bring you down.
I'm sorry if you are going through this.
Find those people who can be there and support you and try to do what you can to empower
yourself and to keep your surroundings safer, whatever you need to do for that.
(52:34):
Thank you for listening to this story.
Again, I really hope it empowers and informs more than it adds to the stress of our already
existing burden.
I'm going to take a break and go drink some water and chill out because my heart is racing
dealing with, oh with the stress.
So another word about my mom before I leave.
(52:57):
She is one of the most amazing people that I know and she's gone through so many things.
She's experienced so much hardship and crazy stories like you just heard in her life and
she remains positive and loving and optimistic and really caring.
And it just shows that it's not what happens to you.
(53:21):
It's how you react and what your response is to those situations that make you who you
are.
And so I just want you to keep fighting with grace and strength and hold on to that empathy
for other people and hold on to that hope for yourself and bring that compassion to
yourself.
So this one goes out to mom for being who she is and bringing power and safety and care
(53:49):
to all of us through that story.
I'm Savannah Harding.
Thank you for being here.
Share this story or the parts about the tips with any friends or people going through this.
Again, you can always reach out on gettingbetterpod on Instagram or reach out at gettingbetterpod.com.
Please rate and follow and download the episode and I will see you back for the next episode.
(54:16):
Thank you for being here.
Here's to our safety, empowerment and to getting better.
Bye.
Bye.
I'm Savannah Harding, and this is Getting Better.
(00:09):
Hi, and welcome back to Getting Better.
This is a podcast about health and healing, but today we have a different type of episode
for you.
Today I am sharing a story about a stalker.
Well, there are two stalkers, but I'm getting ahead of myself.
(00:32):
I would like to introduce the first ever guest on Getting Better, Kelly Harding, my mom.
Hi, Kellie.
How are you doing?
Hello, Savannah.
I am so happy to be here.
Thank you.
As many of you know, I recently had my 14th eye surgery, and my mom here has been with
me through every single one, honestly doing more effort than I ever can, driving me to
(00:56):
the appointments, picking up food and medication, comforting me and supporting me through it
all.
She's one of the most loving, empathetic, and fun people I know.
And today you will hear one of the stories I heard growing up, and it's the story of
her stalker.
And mom, when I was younger, you didn't tell me the whole story at first.
(01:18):
Was that because you didn't want to scare me?
Yes.
It was a dark, scary story, and I did not want to unnecessarily make you scared of being
in your own house.
Do you remember how old I was when you first told me, or why you told me in the first place?
You were 13, and I told you because, like any mother of a 13-year-old, trying to make
(01:45):
you aware of your safety and surroundings and why it was important that I knew where
you were at all times.
I think I was also trying to post a picture of me in a bikini, and you were worried that
someone was going to try and do non-nice things to me.
You're absolutely right.
You're absolutely right.
Remember that?
(02:05):
Yes.
I think I posted it anyway.
Yes you did.
Freedom of choice.
Wow.
Wow, okay.
So this episode was inspired by more recent events in my life, and as it's an ongoing
issue right now, I won't share all of the details.
(02:27):
But I have an order of protection out on someone, and it's been going on for the last year,
and has taken a toll on my mental health and is a risk to my safety.
The order recently just went through the week after surgery, had to appear in court with
mom right there next to me with one eye closed and swollen.
(02:51):
But because of this, it just really made me see the importance of sharing stories specifically
for women's health, but men's health and safety as well.
And so mom's story is something that if I hadn't heard it, this order of protection
wouldn't have happened, and I would still be going through the stress of the stalker
(03:12):
every single day.
But because I knew of her story and have heeded her warnings and have heard it back me up
with everything, it just gave me the knowledge and awareness and also the urgency to which
I needed to put in this order for my own safety and feel encouraged enough that I'm not being
(03:34):
dramatic and that it is something that is important to do.
So thank you for that, hun.
You're welcome.
Glad I could make lemonade out of a lemon.
That's a big lemon as you're going to hear.
So even though this isn't a true crime podcast, I think it's extremely important for others
to hear your story, mom, and shed some light on the prevalence of stalking while giving
(03:59):
some insight into what she and I have both learned from our individual experiences.
Okay, shall we begin?
Well, first we're going to just give a definition of stalking.
So stalking is a pattern of repeated and unwanted attention, harassment, contact, or any other
course of conduct directed at a specific person, i.e. the victim, that would cause a reasonable
(04:24):
person to feel fear.
And did you feel fear, mom?
Yes, I was afraid for my life almost every day for five years.
So I want to mention a few statistics about stalking.
In 2019, females were stalked more than twice as often as males.
(04:45):
Nearly one in three women and one in six men have experienced stalking at some point in
their lifetime, and more than half of the victims that were stalked indicated they were
stalked before the age of 25, and one in four were stalked before the age of 18.
In 2019, 3.4 million people, ages 16 and older, were victims of stalking, and less than a
(05:09):
third of all stalking victims reported the victimization to police in that same year.
I think it's very important to mention that the vast majority of stalking victims are
stalked by someone they know, 40% by a current or former intimate partner, and 42% by an
acquaintance.
And 11% of stalking victims have been stalked for five years or more.
(05:33):
And mom, you've fallen that 11%?
Yes, I do.
How old were you when you were first stalked?
I was 18 years old.
I was a senior in high school.
And so now mom is going to go through and give her story of her stalking experience.
This is a light word for that.
But before she goes into that, I want to give a warning for any triggers.
(05:57):
We will be mentioning rape, molestation, attempt to murder, and just overall stalking.
Is there anything to add to that?
That's what it sounds about, right?
That's great.
Okay.
I guess, do you want to take it away from the top?
Sure.
This is a story of someone who stalked me and the whole experience ended up with him
(06:23):
waiting for me in my bedroom with a knife and a gun, calling me where I was and told
me to go home.
And he was waiting for me.
But let me back up just a little bit to tell you how it started.
I was a senior in high school and I was a cheerleader at our local high school.
And somebody had seen me at a wrestling match that I was cheering for.
(06:47):
And unbeknownst to me at the time, he followed me when I left the game.
At that time, my girlfriends and I would often go dancing after a match because back then
in Ohio, you could be 18 and go to clubs and dance.
So it was a Friday night.
We want to go dancing.
And so off we went with all our girlfriends.
(07:08):
While I was at the club, this creepy drunk guy came up and started bothering me and wanted
me to dance.
He wouldn't leave me alone.
And this really nice guy came up and said, hey, is he bothering you?
And I said, yes, he is.
And he said, do you want me to sit with you?
So he'll go away.
And I said, well, that's really nice.
(07:29):
Thank you.
And so he did and talked to me that evening.
And then my girlfriends and I were getting ready to leave.
And he said, hey, why don't I walk you guys out to your car?
That way you know that you're safe and that creepy guy won't bother you.
And we thought, wow, how nice of him to walk us to the car.
Unbeknownst to me at the time, he was the stalker.
(07:51):
So he walked me and my friend to our car.
I proceeded to get in my car and drive home to my parents' house where I lived.
He followed me.
I did not know this at the time.
So now he knew my name and he knew where I lived and he knew what kind of car I drove.
And where you went to high school.
And where I went to high school.
But I didn't see him at the high school.
(08:12):
So I didn't know he, that's where it first started and where he first saw me at that
time.
I didn't know that.
And so two days later, I get a phone call from him.
His name was Robbie.
And back then everybody's phone number was listed in the phone book.
So my name, my address, my phone number was all there.
(08:32):
So it wasn't strange to get a call from someone that you've met.
He shortly started acting kind of weird like he told me.
He was sitting in a bean bag chair eating a candy bar in his underwear.
And I thought, that's weird.
And I said, you know, thank you for calling.
(08:53):
I appreciate that.
I have a boyfriend.
I've been dating someone for years.
So I'm not interested.
And I won't be returning your calls.
And that was that.
Well, all of a sudden I started getting in the middle of the night harassing phone calls.
It would wake me up in the middle of the night.
I'd answer my phone.
And half the time I didn't know I was answering my phone because I was such a heavy sleeper.
(09:15):
My mom said, who were you talking to last night?
I'd be like, what are you talking about?
She goes, yeah, your phone rang.
And so I started getting these, what we would call a harassing prank phone call.
First he would just say my name and then he'd hang up.
And then it's, so he'd say like Kelly and then hang up.
Kelly, are you there?
(09:35):
Are you sleeping?
And I'm like, huh?
Who is this?
And then he'd hang up.
And then as time progressed, he started telling me what he wanted to do to me sexually.
And I would, of course, hang up.
And it got to the point where he was calling and he was telling me that he was going to
(09:58):
rape me.
And he was threatening to kill me.
And he was very, very vivid in what he was going to do to me.
And so at that time stalking was not a felony.
And so the only thing I could really do is I unlisted my phone number, got a new phone
number, so he would not be able to call me anymore.
(10:20):
This was way before caller ID and all those things.
At that point, how do you try contacting the police when he mentioned what he was threatening
to do to you?
No, I didn't take the threats real serious because they were so weird at the time.
And that's all that had happened at that time.
(10:40):
Did you tell your mom and dad?
Oh, yes.
Yes.
My mom and dad knew because they'd hear the phone ring in the middle of the night and
they'd hear me pick up the phone.
So my parents were aware that somebody was calling and making these calls.
Were they upset or were they also kind of like this is just kids being kids?
No, they were upset.
My dad's like threatening what he would do if he caught the person.
(11:03):
So that's when we decided, well, the best thing to do is just to get an unlisted phone
number.
And so when was the next interaction?
The two of you had.
And so I got the unlisted number and obviously the phone calls stopped and we thought, great,
this is super.
However, at that same time, weird things started happening at my house.
(11:24):
For example, a neighbor's ladder was stolen and we found it underneath my bedroom window.
I have no idea how it got there.
Another time there was a tire underneath the kitchen window and you could tell someone
had been standing on it, looking in the windows.
These events though happened over months.
And so we did not know if this person was the same person making these calls or if it
(11:49):
was maybe somebody else watching us.
Is there something with patio furniture?
Yes, I was watching TV in the family room with my then boyfriend.
And the next morning when we got up, my parents noticed that the patio furniture had all been
turned so he could sit on the patio and watch me and my boyfriend through the curtains.
(12:14):
And he could see right through the crack of the curtains.
We were just laying on the floor watching TV.
At that point were you paranoid already, like looking around or were you not thinking much
of it due to the calls?
You didn't think there was a person there yet?
We knew we had what we called a peeping Tom back then.
So, but we didn't know who the peeping Tom was peeping.
Me or my brother who was two years younger than me, was it some girl watching him?
(12:39):
We had no idea at the time.
So it was a general anxiety.
And then it progressed, it got worse, there was a snowstorm.
My parents were out of town and I was home alone because I had to work.
I worked at retail at the time and I got up in the morning and I saw that there were footprints
in the snow leading up to the front door and they stopped.
(13:01):
And I thought, well, that's weird.
Where'd they go?
Then I saw that the footprints went around to the side of the house and they stopped
at the back door.
And then the footprints went around to the back of the house and stopped at the kitchen
window.
And I thought, where did the footprints go?
And I look up and they were on the roof.
So somebody had looked through the windows and then found where I was going to be sleeping
(13:23):
and got up on the roof and was looking through a window and the roof.
And at that point I started to get scared.
So at this point as a peeping Tom and then looking through your window, did you try
contacting the police again?
Yes.
At that time we did contact the police because we knew somebody was looking in the windows
and my car had been broken into, but he took personal items.
(13:48):
He did not take the car keys, which were there because we lived in a, we thought a very safe
place at the time and he did not take anything valuable.
So we were starting to see that it was targeted at me.
And then is that when grandpa tried to set the booby traps?
When was that?
So grandpa set the booby traps right about then and what he would do is seems like every
(14:12):
time my dad was out of town, grandpa for you, this peeping Tom would leave evidence that
he'd been around.
We'd find evidence that he had been around.
And so we had no idea who it was, but we thought somebody's watching the house.
So my dad would stay outside in the backyard and hide in the bushes until six o'clock in
(14:32):
the morning.
And then he put wires to booby trap the backyard to see where he was coming in and which direction
he was going and my dad would go inside to take a shower to go to work and the wires
would trip.
And grandpa, he's a veteran, right?
He doesn't mess around.
He yes, he is a veteran and he also has a little black belt in him.
(14:56):
So he was not messing around, but we could not seem to catch this guy.
And then one summer night it all accumulated.
Well, before that, didn't he call you at your boyfriend's dad's house or something like
that?
No, that that was after.
Yes.
Yes, there's another incident.
(15:17):
So it's summertime.
My dad is out of town.
I work at a department store till nine o'clock at night because my dad was out of town when
I went out with her girlfriends.
I worked till nine and my brother went out with his friends.
I got home back to my parents house about 9 30 and talked on the phone for about a half
hour, but then just felt too scared and wanted to leave and I went over to wanted to go to
(15:41):
my boyfriend's house and wait for him to get home from his late job.
And so I gathered my stuff to go over and my parents live in a tri level where there's
the main floor where the main door is.
And then you can go up six stairs to the bedrooms or down six steps to the lower level.
So I went to go out the front door and I realized how dark it was out there.
(16:04):
And I put my hand on the door knob and a voice said, don't go out the front door, my head,
this voice, go out the back door.
So I locked the door and I turned around when downstairs to the spooky dark lower level.
And I got down there and the voice of my head said, no, turn around, go back out the front
door.
So I turned around and I went out the front door and got in my car and be notes to me at
(16:29):
the time when I was at the front door with my hand on the door knob, this stalker had
unscrewed the front porch light and was getting ready to come into the house for me.
And I pushed the button and locked it.
He saw that I turned and went downstairs through the side lights.
So he went around to the back door to get me and I had turned around and gone out the
(16:49):
front.
So I get to my boyfriend's house 20 minutes away and the phone rings and I'm at my boyfriend's
house, I'm the only one there.
And this person says, Kelly, I've been tapping your line.
I know exactly what you've been doing.
If you don't give me $50, I'm going to tell your boyfriend what you've been doing.
(17:12):
I didn't think I hadn't been doing anything.
Like what was I getting blackmailed for?
I was like, I'm like, what, what are you talking about?
He knew my name.
He had my full name and he knew exactly how long it would take for me to get home from
my boyfriend's house.
He said, go home, get $50 and I will call you and I will tell you where to meet me to
(17:33):
give me the $50.
If you don't, I'm going to tell your boyfriend all about what you did.
Again, I wasn't thinking, what did I do?
I was just thinking, how does this guy know where I am?
How does he know my boyfriend's name?
And scared and I was by myself.
So that was right after you had gone out the front door, the back door, then the front
(17:55):
door finally.
Yes, yes.
And I called the police.
It was a Friday night and they're like, oh, it's okay.
Someone's just giving you pranks and I had to beg them to come over.
I said, no, you don't understand.
I'm scared.
This has been going on.
I'm by myself.
He has threatened me.
Police sent a police officer over.
So finally they did and the police officer got there and the phone rang and the police
(18:18):
officer said, answer it.
So I answered it.
Hello.
And he said, Kelly Harding.
Oops.
Kelly Maine.
I did it for the last name then.
Why haven't you left yet?
And I said, I'm getting stuff together.
You've got 20 minutes to get here.
Get here now.
And the police took the phone from me and said, this is officer so and so and he hung
(18:42):
up.
So this is still at your boyfriend's house.
The officer came there.
Yes.
My boyfriend's house was in a very unsafe part of town because we were college students
at the time and he waited until my boyfriend got home and we decided that we were going
to go over to my house to see what was going on.
(19:04):
So I called home and my little brother had a midnight curfew and it was 10 after 12.
So I called phone rings, phone rings and finally he answers.
I said, hey, where were you?
You're 10 minutes late.
I said, this guy that's been calling, this guy that's been doing all these harassing
phone calls and this people tell me he called and he's going to call the house and he's
going to tell me where to meet him.
(19:25):
So the phone might ring and I said, you know, what took you so long to get to the phone?
He said, I couldn't see anything.
All the lights were out.
And I said, I left every light on in the house.
He's like, no, all the lights are out.
And I said, go to the front door and do me a favor.
(19:45):
Open the front door and screw in the light bulb at the front door and see if it screws
in.
And he's like, what are you talking about?
So just do it.
And he did.
Somebody had unscrewed the light bulb.
He came back in.
I told him I was on my way and he said, I hear someone upstairs.
The more specifically what it is.
Toilet flush.
He heard a toilet flush upstairs.
(20:07):
He's like, there's somebody upstairs.
And I was like, quick, run next door to the neighbors.
So he ran.
He ran to a tree, practically knocked himself out on the way over there because it was after
midnight.
I called the police and said, you know, this band who had called, there was somebody in
the house.
Can you please go over and check?
And they said they would go check and they thought everything would be fine.
(20:30):
So we waited.
Did you call grandma at that time?
Did she know what's going on?
Grandma did not because that was before cell phones.
And she had been out.
I knew she was going to be getting home, but at that point we were just waiting for the
police to go to the house to see if there was anything.
And the police called.
Like what if grandma went home in the meantime?
(20:51):
The police were at the house looking through the house.
Surprise.
No, the police went to look at the house and my brother came back to the house and they
said, there's no sign of breaking and entering.
Everything's okay.
Your brother must just have heard the water heater turning on or something.
And I said, okay, so Scott, that's my brother.
I said, you know, I'll be home in 20 minutes.
(21:14):
Mom should be home any second.
The police will wait for you.
And I got in the car and went home.
And wait, first of all, your boyfriend didn't like drive home with you.
Oh, yes, he did.
So he was with, no, he was with me.
Sorry.
He was with me.
We got to my parents' house.
My mom and dad, I mean, sorry, my mom and brother were there and I said something about
the lights being out and where was he and what tooks along and at that point he looked
(21:39):
around.
My brother did and realized that the note that we usually keep on the floor wasn't on
the floor saying where everybody was and when we'd be home.
That's how we communicated back then.
Opened the trash can and found glass in the trash can.
So I went to the kitchen window and opened the drapes and the window was completely broken
and all the glass was in the trash can along with the notes of where we were and what time
(22:03):
we'd be home.
And wasn't there pictures turned over or broken?
Yes.
What happened when I saw that glass, I got very angry and scared.
I called the police and said, you need to come back.
There was a breaking and entering.
There's glass in the house.
I found butcher knives from the kitchen all over the house.
(22:25):
My room had been trashed.
My mattress flipped.
Clothes that I had that were black had been ripped in two.
And there was a pantyhose shoved in the corner of our desk in the kitchen that had a hair
in it.
Okay.
First of all, the police did not do their job at all.
The fact that you noticed that right away.
(22:46):
And when you say the knives were all over the house, what do you mean by that?
We had a butcher block with knives in the kitchen and the knives were missing from the
butcher block and like the big butcher knife was on the dining room table.
You know, they had a lace tablecloth at the time.
So it was really obvious.
There's just a butcher knife sitting on the table.
(23:08):
Another knife was on the counter in the bathroom.
Another knife was in the kitchen on the counter.
Another knife was upstairs in my bedroom.
And it was very clear.
Like every picture of me and my boyfriend were flipped down.
And then pictures of me from various times that my parents had were sitting all around
(23:30):
the house.
That's so, that gives me the creeps.
The pantyhose, did you go and see if they were yours?
What was your first reaction to that?
Well, I did.
I looked at them and recognized immediately they weren't mine because of the color and
size at the time.
And then I smelled the foot of the pantyhose and could tell it'd been worn by somebody
(23:55):
who had a foot in it at some point.
And then I saw the blonde hair and I was so scared and so angry that the police officers
had missed this completely and had poo hooted.
The police came, they did the report, they left and the phone rang downstairs in the
kitchen.
Okay.
I picked up the phone in the kitchen and a voice said, that wasn't very nice.
(24:20):
Don't ever call the cops again.
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, and hung up.
Did you recognize the voice at all or try to think of who it was at that time?
I did not recognize the voice.
I recognized the voice as the same voice of what had been calling me and harassing me
and stalking me and making the phone calls, but I did not know who it was.
(24:44):
And what was your family and friends' reactions at that point?
Obviously, I was very scared.
We had no idea who it was.
It was clear that he had targeted me.
We immediately filed police reports.
I started getting phone calls again because my phone bill was in the kitchen and when
he broke in, he saw my private number.
(25:06):
So he started calling me again.
So annoying.
The way tapping on a line is, back then, is you had someone put a tap on your line for
two weeks and if there was no activity, they take the tap off.
That was it.
So we put the tap on two weeks, no calls.
As soon as we took the tap off, the calls would start up again.
(25:27):
So from August till April, we would have the tap on, the tap off, and the calls were coming
and going.
And I was never home by myself.
I was afraid to take a shower with my eyes closed so I kept my eyes open.
And then finally, on Easter Sunday, he called 25 times and they were able to catch the
(25:49):
line and we found out who it was.
Did you answer the phone at any time during the 25 times?
Were you not home?
No.
We were having Easter dinner at my sister's house so I didn't even know the calls had
come through on my phone.
And so once they got him, they just got the location or the number.
How did they catch him at that point?
(26:10):
They had a name and an address and called me and said, do you know who this is?
And they said, his name is Robert E. Stevens.
I'm like, I don't know of Robert E. Stevens.
And then they said, well, he lived and then it hit me, Robbie, Robbie Stevens, that guy,
(26:31):
that's who it is.
And he actually went to the same college I went to.
So I knew who it was at that point.
Was that deliberate of him to go to the same college or was it kind of like everyone kind
of funnels in there?
He was a year ahead of me.
And so I don't know if it was deliberate.
It was deliberate when he would follow me to my classes and show up everywhere I was
(26:55):
on campus.
So he was deliberately following.
And didn't you teach a class, TA class?
I did.
I taught a class on interpersonal communications and I'd be standing there teaching my class
and he would be standing right outside the door staring at me.
And so I would just start to tell the class about him and who he was.
What would you say?
(27:16):
What do you mean?
I'd say that I have this guy who has been stalking me and he actually was arrested.
It was before it was a felony and his case got 18 months jail time, 18 months probation
and 18 months of counseling and a restraining order.
(27:38):
And it was after the police came back and searched your room or who found things under
the mattress.
My mattress had been flipped in my room.
So things shredded everywhere.
My dad had a handgun and he always kept it in his nightstand and it was gone.
It was missing the night that Robbie came into the house.
(28:02):
The handgun was missing.
And six months later, my parents were flipping their mattress and found it under the mattress.
He had taken it from the nightstand knowing I'd probably go for it and had put it under
the mattress to use on me.
So when he got arrested, did he get arrested just for stalking or was that attempt of murder?
(28:22):
What was, do you remember the charge?
At the time it was a stalking charge before it was a felony.
I learned that every time you file a report that counts as a count against him.
And I had only filed two reports because I didn't see the sense in saying he did it again
because it was happening all the time.
(28:43):
And they didn't take you seriously.
And then even when it was so serious, they did a half ass job or half, sorry, I don't
want to cuss a half booty job.
Yes.
Turns out the detective who had my case was suspended because he had not followed through
and he had failed so miserably in his job.
So at this point you were in college, he's still harassing you.
(29:05):
This is at least two years into it.
Yes.
The restraining order still stood.
I had to move out of my house with my parents and moved into a house that my name could
not be attached to at all address wise.
So I could be safe and he found me at this safe house, so to speak.
(29:27):
He would show up when I was out with my friends and just happened to be standing three feet
away from me.
And I called the police and reported that he was not obeying his orders and nothing happened
until I got another call.
Two years later, turns out Robbie had been very active and he had a 16 year old girl
(29:51):
trapped in a car and he attempted rape and she escaped and she got out and they caught
him because he was the assistant football coach at the high school she attended.
He plea bargained to 32 cases.
32?
32 cases.
Of what?
What kind of cases?
(30:12):
He plea bargained for the stalking.
So the phone calls, the harassment, the breaking and entering, the threatening of life, he
actually had raped a girl but she was young and did not want to pursue what she would
have to go through to press charges at the time.
So he was put in jail a second time.
(30:33):
I know you mentioned he was an ROTC.
What else did he do?
How does he have this much time on his hands?
He was an ROTC so he would go away for weekends.
He was actually married at the time and so he would just tell his wife that he had ROTC.
He also worked for UPS and he worked the night shift so he was done at 2 o'clock in the morning
(30:56):
so that's why there was so much activity after 2 a.m. is because he got off work and that's
when he'd come and look in the windows and threaten me.
So he got arrested a second time.
I'm just curious was he still married?
Did his wife stay with him?
He was married and had twin little girls that were 3 years old.
His wife had no idea that he had even been arrested the first time.
(31:18):
His dad had got him out of jail and they covered for him saying that he was away on ROTC.
And so he got arrested the second time.
And is this when grandpa appeared in the news?
Yes.
There was a hearing for the second time around and I was working at the time and could not
go to this hearing where they were going to give him his punishment.
(31:41):
And the judge said, does anybody have anything they'd like to say before I say what's going
to happen?
And my dad got up and he said, five years ago we trusted you to get this guy off the
street and take care of him and you said you'd keep him off the street and take care of him
and you didn't.
And he's back on the street and if you don't get him off the street now he's going to end
(32:02):
up in a body bag.
Wasn't it in the paper the next time?
He was on the news.
Fred Main victims father.
And I kept getting calls, Kelly, it was your dad on the news.
Did you, did someone stalk you?
And it kind of came full circle in a way because I was staying with our grandparents, same ones,
(32:23):
going through the court issue of my own order of protection with mom right next to me.
And so we have recounted the story and heard a little bit more from their point of view.
And they were definitely mad and protective and worried for you.
And grandpa definitely did his best to keep you, keep you safe.
And so then what was the end of the stalking?
(32:45):
I know you had to go to his house at one point.
How was that?
Yes, they had me go to his house because he was married.
They would not be able to tell the difference between his wife's clothes and my clothes.
And so after the first arrest, the police took me to his apartment and said, we just have
to go through and see if you recognize anything that's yours.
So I'm opening drawers and slowly going through everything.
(33:08):
He goes, is that how he went through your drawers?
I said, no, he goes, how did he go through your drawers?
So I pick up the door and I just dump the whole thing on the floor.
I'm like, like this.
And so we actually found 13 drivers license of other girls, 13 IDs, mine included, because
he had broken into my car before and stole my driver's license.
(33:32):
We had found Polaroid pictures of girls in compromising positions and drugs.
Well, I'm a little, I didn't know about that.
I'm a little speechless for that.
That's really creepy and gross.
And so how long did he go away for?
Again, this was before it was a felony.
So he went to jail for five years and he got out.
(33:54):
And back then we still had phone books.
So I could see exactly where he was and where he lived in Ohio where this happened.
But since then in the years past, his name does not pop up anywhere.
He does not exist anywhere.
His name has been wiped from everything.
So that second call you got from the police saying he was arrested, that was the last
you've ever heard about him or from him.
(34:15):
He's never contacted you since that happened.
No.
He was in jail and then I moved to a different state or across the country actually.
So I felt safe because there were some girls that had moved to New York.
And had gotten married and was pregnant and he was still stalking them.
Did it take a while for you to feel less paranoid and less worried for your safety?
(34:39):
Yes.
I did not close my eyes in the shower for many, many years.
And I was always careful of my surroundings and had learned how to defend myself with
self-defense, how to shoot a gun and how to minimize any chance that he could get me
(35:01):
again.
Now, I want to just go back to that instance where you were going out the front door and
you heard a voice and you went downstairs, heard the voice and went right back upstairs.
And she missed him and escaped before he could realize that she went out that middle door.
And if she hadn't had listened to the voice, which I think you've told me you think that's
(35:25):
the Holy Spirit talking to you, which I don't know what else it would be.
If you hadn't had listened to that and acted upon that, I don't know if either of us would
be here.
Yes.
Stalkers tend to get more aggressive and braver.
And so he was just amping up what he was doing.
And we actually knew the details of him outside that door because that was part of the plea
(35:47):
bargain.
And he told the police exactly what he had been doing and how he'd been watching me and
following me and stalking me.
And so we're going to wrap it up here, but going off of that intuition and discernment
and actually acting upon that sensation of, okay, there's something else telling me to
go somewhere.
(36:07):
What else would you give as insight or tips?
I don't really want to say advice because every situation is different with stalking,
but what would be your two cents?
If you feel like you're being stalked or you're being followed, trust your gut instinct.
I think that God gives us that gut instinct for our survival and file a report, call your
(36:29):
local police station, find out what is the criteria in that city for stalking and reporting,
make notes of everything.
Every time you feel like it's happening, make notes, record it, keep a list.
If you ever see someone following you, record it with your phone and do not minimize that
(36:50):
fear that you're feeling.
I kept thinking I was overreacting and I was making a big deal out of it and I wasn't.
And even back then there was more victim shaming and blaming.
Did you feel like that from other people or was that more of just kind of internal societal
pressure that you felt?
The police officers like, well, what were you wearing?
(37:12):
You know, I was a cheerleader.
Classic.
Did anyone else make you feel like it was your fault?
There was insinuations like, well, do you know this person?
Are you sure you haven't ever been with him that you didn't talk to him?
And he said, oh no, she wanted me to call her.
She wanted me to come over.
She wanted all this.
(37:34):
Fortunately at that point, they did not listen.
Yeah, fortunately.
Well, I really don't know what to say after all that.
You know, she didn't tell me all of that when I was younger for good reason because it is
scary and we both have anxiety and I think that would have made it a little harder.
But because of the story that she shared, you know, my friends grew up hearing the story
(37:58):
too to help kind of keep them safe.
And like she said, it wasn't the creepy guy hitting on her at the bar.
It was the nice guy who offered to take her to her car.
And this isn't to fear monger or make you worry on top of what we especially as females
already stress about almost every single day, at least for me.
(38:21):
I'm checking every time I get into my car.
But it's to share that it is very prevalent and people are dealing with this and it is
so serious.
Your safety and your life is the most serious thing in your life.
And so it should be taken with the most seriousness.
I don't know what else would you say about that?
(38:43):
It's about recognizing the danger and I had to do a lot myself to keep myself protected
and safe.
And that's still the case, but you have to be proactive and you have to protect yourself
and trust your gut instincts.
And you just don't know who it could be.
In this case, it was the clean cut ROTC nice guy.
(39:08):
So we're wrapping things up and thank you mom for being the first guest on the podcast,
even though this is a different type of episode.
But do you have any parting words of advice or messages for any people out there dealing
with this or worried that they're going to deal with this or having already dealt with
(39:29):
this?
Yes.
I have advice inside you, trust your gut and report and document everything you see.
It's better to be mistaken and overreact than it is the opposite.
That's great.
And tell your friends, not just tell the police, but tell your people, share your location
(39:50):
and that in itself helps bring that affirmation that you are fighting for the right thing
and not overreacting.
That's all that we have today.
Thank you for being here mom.
Thank you for having me.
One last thought.
My mother always said, shut your drapes at night.
Shut your drapes.
Well, I'm laughing because the world just loves unfortunate events sometimes.
(40:18):
And I just dropped my mom off at the airport.
And when I returned, I had a letter from the court clerk county or whatever it's called
and my stalker has appealed the order of protection.
So I have to go back to court next week and fight again for my own safety and for this
(40:40):
legal order of protection that helps keep me safe and less stressed and less traumatized.
So the timing of this is quite ironic, but I do feel safer having already put in that
order and having these reports made.
And the judge when I was in zoom court a few weeks ago was fantastic.
(41:05):
Everyone I've worked with or talked with in the Nashville court system has been super
understanding, really affirming and just super kind and sensitive with everything and very
informative.
So I have more faith in the system here specifically and I really do feel empowered more by my
(41:27):
mom's story.
I'm so glad that I have started to deal with this because it's not dealt with yet.
I'm so glad that I started to deal with this before it could ever escalate because my case
is a more mild case, but that's because I knew where it could lead knowing my mom's
story.
(41:47):
So I hope today that you don't feel more afraid.
I'm really wanting to just give another story, another stalker testimony to help empower
and bring awareness to an issue that people deal with on a daily basis.
So I want to give some tips I want to say because like I said before, advice seems like
(42:12):
the wrong word because every circumstance is different, different cops and officers and
law enforcement will tell you to do different things, but from the general consensus, do
not interact with the stalker.
Do not provoke or try to aggravate.
(42:32):
So with my circumstance that I'm dealing with, I have to pretend like they don't even exist.
And so I don't have a lot of video or phone recording one because the timing of it is
always different every time.
So I'm not prepared to have my phone ready to go.
My hands are normally full, but I also am trying not to give any satisfaction or give
(42:54):
any, any reason for it to escalate because I'm also afraid as well.
And so it's kind of like the fright or flight type thing in mine is to turn around, pretend
like this person doesn't exist.
Don't give them the satisfaction of them being creepy.
So the first tip I have is to just not interact.
(43:17):
Do not interact.
Do what you can to not provoke the person or escalate the situation.
Again, like I said mine specifically, I had to pretend like they didn't exist.
Other times you should scream.
You should call 911.
You should maybe get some attention your way so that they go away.
It really again is a case by case basis.
(43:37):
I didn't know when the beginning was because when something creepy happens to you, you
don't think it's going to keep happening to you every single day, you know, but maybe
in the beginning, if I had screamed or told people to look this way or called 911 right
away, it would have been different.
But at that same time, it's a repeated pattern of behavior.
(43:59):
And so just the first time probably wouldn't have helped.
But it goes into my second piece of advice is if you do notice something creepy, if someone
has a weird interaction with you as frustrating as it is to have to go out of your way, I
want you to write it down.
I want you to take note and put any details that you think are pertinent or even not pertinent
(44:21):
to the certain event and call 911 or call the non-emergency line.
There are non-emergency lines everywhere.
You just look it up, just call 911 and ask to be taken to the non-emergency line if it's
that worrisome.
But call the non-emergency line and give a report because the more reports that you have
(44:41):
put down in the system, it's kind of like tick one, tick two, tick three against this
person and you have evidence.
You have specific evidence.
And when you do that for my circumstance, they sent out an officer to come check in with
me.
And that way you do also have that protection.
And you can ask for drive-bys for an officer or a sheriff to just drive by your street.
(45:08):
At a certain time, you can even ask for it to be scheduled.
And so if it's something where you feel unsafe at a certain location, ask for someone to
drive by.
That's what they're there for.
They're doing it to protect you.
The worst they can say is no.
Now these next tips are for your awareness.
(45:28):
These are things that I think are just good to practice.
Again, not trying to make you more fearful or more anxious and stressed, but it's just
good practice.
So to be aware of your surroundings, I want you to look around.
We want that head on a swivel.
Just always know where you are.
(45:49):
I personally have a blind spot, so my neck is always twisting around to make sure nobody's
there.
If you're on your phone, put it on speaker to talk to somebody.
You don't want to have your hearing at all impaired.
So if you're listening to music, just take out one headphone.
Or if it's at night, just don't listen to music.
Wait till you get into your car.
(46:09):
And then when you get into your car, get into the habit of locking your doors right away.
It's kind of annoying.
Once you build the habit, I promise it's just easy.
It will become second nature.
Be aware of locking your keys in the car on accident if you do this.
Just try to make sure you don't lock yourself out of your car, but it's safer to lock you
(46:29):
in and just diminish that risk of someone trying to come into your car.
Every state and sometimes cities have their own laws on this, but carry pepper spray or
carry a taser or my sister just got me something called a birdie, which when you pull it out,
has this loudest siren whistle and light ever.
(46:53):
And it's just about the size of your middle finger.
It's pretty inconspicuous, comes in really cute colors.
And I have a 15% off code up in the description of this episode.
So safety and savings.
And it's honestly a really good gift for people going off to college or moving, or if you're
just trying to not carry pepper spray or a taser, it's a really good alternative.
(47:19):
And honestly, you could carry a birdie, a pepper spray and a taser and just really kind of
triple threat it.
But you know, sometimes you can't travel with a pepper spray and taser.
So highly recommend the birdie.
And just having that on you, even if you're not keeping it prepped and ready to go at
any instance helps make you feel a little bit safer, you know, that you have some tool
(47:40):
that can help you and your safety.
Like my mom said, shut your curtains.
We love that natural light.
But at night, you just want to close those curtains.
Privacy is a privilege and you should use it to your safety.
What I wish I had done is write down every single instance that this creeper stalked
me because I had multiple.
(48:02):
I had 10 just off the top of my head of when I made reports and texted people and wrote
it down in my car when he got a new license plate and a new car.
Like I said, I was observant.
I made sure I knew what was my situation and could give any information when asked, but
I could have jotted down 50 instances and sitting here, I'm going to go back and go
(48:25):
through all my texts, all my phone calls, all my Instagram DMs, a friend's notifying
them what's going on and write that down for this appeal because it's such a frustration
and it's so bothersome.
Like I'm stressed, I'm scared, I'm anxious, I'm fearful.
(48:45):
It's kind of traumatic.
And I have to go fight for my own safety, which is so, I mean, you're kind of getting
this raw reaction right now, but mine's a mild case.
You know, my mom going through everything she went through is just so much more intense
and just, first of all, you don't know what people were going through.
(49:10):
It's just like one part, one sliver of her life that she went through and was going through.
And I mean, you know, right now I'm going through eye surgery and having this on top
of it is just so, it's laughable because it's so utterly ridiculous that people have to
deal with this.
(49:30):
So that kind of turned into a little bit of a rant, but it's live in my life.
It's ongoing right now and that's why I wanted to share this today.
Now I'm going to post some resources on my website and in the link of this description,
I'm going to put down some facts about stalking and kind of what you can do in that moment,
(49:55):
but be aware of your surroundings.
Write everything down, make no report anything you can.
Use law enforcement as low as my expectations were.
It's the only option I have and it's what they're there for and they really exceeded
my expectations here.
So the worst they can say is no.
And so really try to utilize them for your own safety.
(50:18):
And the biggest thing I want you to take away from this story is to trust your instincts.
Sometimes we don't know the difference between anxiety or intuition and I really want you
to just act upon what you know is your intuition and practice that discernment.
If something feels off, get out of there, contact somebody, share your location, you
(50:42):
can get on the phone with 911, utilize them.
Even if it seems trivial, it's worth it to protect your life.
And sometimes it's easier said than done and I know there's still a lot of stigma sometimes
around stalking in terms of victim blaming and shaming and even my grandma who is a wonderful
(51:06):
woman, she lived in an age where people assumed it's the victim's fault or he didn't really
mean that.
I mean, you heard my mom's story.
She just wasn't believed fully.
And my grandma even before I went into my court date was like, well, are they going to ask
you what you wore?
You know, and my mom goes, which time, the first time the 30th, the 40th or the 50th,
(51:29):
you know, which day do you want?
And it's true.
It's not about what you wear.
Obviously, it's the creepy person.
I just want to say if you are going through this to keep fighting for your safety, it's
such a burden to have to take your safety into your own hands.
And it's very inconvenient to go through all this on top of the stress and on top of the
(51:51):
fear that we, I'm saying we as in women, but anyone who's dealing with this, any type of
person, keep fighting for your safety.
Find those people who will advocate for you and keep making those reports.
You know, if someone you used to date keeps texting you or calling you, keep those.
Keep the phone reports.
(52:12):
Try to record a conversation if you can.
It will empower you more than I think it will bring you down.
I'm sorry if you are going through this.
Find those people who can be there and support you and try to do what you can to empower
yourself and to keep your surroundings safer, whatever you need to do for that.
(52:34):
Thank you for listening to this story.
Again, I really hope it empowers and informs more than it adds to the stress of our already
existing burden.
I'm going to take a break and go drink some water and chill out because my heart is racing
dealing with, oh with the stress.
So another word about my mom before I leave.
(52:57):
She is one of the most amazing people that I know and she's gone through so many things.
She's experienced so much hardship and crazy stories like you just heard in her life and
she remains positive and loving and optimistic and really caring.
And it just shows that it's not what happens to you.
(53:21):
It's how you react and what your response is to those situations that make you who you
are.
And so I just want you to keep fighting with grace and strength and hold on to that empathy
for other people and hold on to that hope for yourself and bring that compassion to
yourself.
So this one goes out to mom for being who she is and bringing power and safety and care
(53:49):
to all of us through that story.
I'm Savannah Harding.
Thank you for being here.
Share this story or the parts about the tips with any friends or people going through this.
Again, you can always reach out on gettingbetterpod on Instagram or reach out at gettingbetterpod.com.
Please rate and follow and download the episode and I will see you back for the next episode.
(54:16):
Thank you for being here.
Here's to our safety, empowerment and to getting better.
Bye.
Bye.
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