When Matthew Thomas's mentor put him in charge of safety operations - despite having no safety experience - it could have been a disaster. Instead, it sparked a 20-year career in talent development.
In this episode, Matthew shares why "promotion is optional, but growth is mandatory," how his own mentor shaped his approach to professional development, and why your "random" career experiences might be your biggest strength. If you've ever questioned your career path or wondered how to develop others' potential, this conversation is for you.
Want to be a guest on the show? Email our host, lauren@compt.io.
For more information on professional development, lifestyle benefits, and better ways to reward your people, visit www.compt.io.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lauren (00:00):
Welcome to Getting Personal, a monthly podcast
diving deep into the stories ofthe heartbeat of HR, brought to
you by Compt, a global lifestylebenefits platform where
companies empower employees withbenefits and rewards they'll use
and appreciate, whoever andwherever they are in life.
Today, I have with me MatthewThomas, VP of people and
organizational development atConger Construction. Thanks for
(00:21):
being here, Matthew.
Matthew (00:22):
Yeah. Thank you, Lauren. I appreciate the, the
time we get to spend togetherhere today.
Lauren (00:26):
Likewise. So before we dive into what you're doing
right now, I know you have abackground in talent, but I'm
wondering, was that youroriginal career plan? I'll I
know a lot of people don'tnecessarily go to college and
say, I'm gonna do HR, so tell meabout how you ended up where you
are.
Matthew (00:47):
Yeah. For sure. No. I appreciate the question, and and
I totally agree that, mostpeople don't really know what
they wanna do when they're goingthrough college. Most people
don't have the proper guidanceto help them identify what those
things are that bring them themost those things.
(01:08):
And so I was I was no differentthan anyone else. I was just
trying to follow in thefootsteps of, you know, my
parents, the things that I knewknew of, my older sister, and I
just kinda did what I thoughtwas the right thing to do. And
when I was going throughcollege, I took, like, one HR
class. They didn't even reallytalk about talent. They talked
about policy and procedure.
And
Lauren (01:28):
Mhmm.
Matthew (01:28):
I don't know too many people that get totally geeked
out about, you know, policy andprocedure. I know there are
those, and we appreciate themgreatly. Right. But HR didn't
necessarily move me. Right?
And, it wasn't until I got a joband was working full time, and I
had a leader who I will call amentor now who I still talk to
(01:52):
after twenty plus years, whoreally had the ability to look
at someone, understand theirnatural character strengths,
where should they fit in theorganization that best them up
for success, put me in front of,different situations that would
(02:12):
utilize my strengths. And Ididn't even I didn't even know
that that's what he was doing,and that's the kind of crazy
cool thing about it. Right?Right? And so, he was helping me
live my strengths before I knewthat the strengths even existed
because going through college, Ididn't know talent development
existed.
He opened my eyes to this, justwith the the genius that he has
(02:36):
and the natural ability to lead,put people in positions where
they're gonna be set up forsuccess, and that's that's what
this guy did. And so from that,I knew that these things
existed, and, he was soimpactful to me that I was like,
you know what? Like, I cantotally dig this. Like, helping
(02:57):
people achieve their goals,putting them in a position where
they can be successful, puttingthem in a position where they
can utilize what comes mostnaturally to them. A majority of
the time for work, they're gonnabe better engaged.
They're gonna have a higherquality of life. They're gonna
have good family time becausethey had good work time, and
it's this this flywheel thatkeeps spinning in in with
(03:20):
positive energy as the fuelbecause they're doing what they
love to do. And if we can figurethat out, I truly believe
organizations will be highperforming teams, high
performing organizations, and,that's just what I've seen, and
and, I love it.
Lauren (03:39):
That's awesome. What traits do you think he saw in
you that, I don't know,indicated that this would be
something you'd be really goodat?
Matthew (03:49):
That's a great question. I still tell him
today. I was like, I have noidea what you saw in me or or or
why you did what you did. Why'dyou put your arm around me?
That's a great question.
I you know, it definitely wasn'tmy my facilitation skills at the
(04:11):
time. Mhmm. Because if you askme back then, would you rather
write, like, a 40 page paper orgive a four second speech or,
you know, presentation? I wouldlike give me the 40 page paper.
Interesting.
He he worked with me a lot onthat skill. I but what I think
(04:31):
to answer your question, what Ithink that he did is he saw how
quickly I can go intoorganizations or groups or
departments and build trust andbuild relationships and break
down the barriers and partnerwith them on trying to achieve a
(04:56):
goal, culture change kindathing. Because my first role out
of college that he was helpingme with was more of like a
customer experience role.
Lauren (05:05):
Yeah.
Matthew (05:07):
And I I had to if something happened with one of
our products or services, I hadto figure out why do a SWOT
analysis and and work with thecustomer and our people and
create and change policyprocedures and, you know, more
constructions and all thosekinds of things. And and and not
(05:28):
a lot of people like change, andso I had to go in there and pull
information and knowledge fromthe people and use their ideas
to make the good positivechange. And so not not really
knowing what I was doing becauseI didn't really take quality
training or classes in college.But after a year or two, like,
(05:51):
our quality numbers started toimprove.
Lauren (05:53):
Interesting.
Matthew (05:54):
So that was super cool. And then anytime you have change
or policy change or procedure orwork construction change,
anything like that, you gottacommunicate it out to the
people. Right? So change. Now wegotta communicate.
Now we gotta implement, executeon those new things. So that led
(06:16):
me to be up in front of peopleway more. And so I started to
facilitate. I started to createtraining classes on these new
policies and procedures and, youknow, all this kind of stuff
like that. And before I know it,like, I'm up in front of people
just speaking and presenting andfacilitating and doing some
instructional design andfiguring out new and creative
(06:38):
ways to really grab theattention of my audience.
And this he is just like amastermind, like, making things
where he's like, I knew this wasgonna work. You know? Like, he's
just doing it like that. And so,so we change quality for the
better, in about three years inthat role. And then, I was
(06:58):
getting kinda comfortable inthat role, and then he I kept on
asking him in our one on onesand touch base meetings like,
hey.
What's next? What's next for me?What's next? And so our safety
record wasn't really where itwas, where we wanted it to be.
Mhmm.
And I didn't know anything aboutsafety. Right? And so, again,
didn't take any college classeson safety, like environmental
(07:20):
health and safety. And so heentrusted in me to take over the
whole entire safety program, forthe whole entire company. At
that time, I think we had, like,a 50 people.
It was manufacturing, sales, andservice. So no Yeah. No small
task. But I had to learn the jetthe general industry, rules and
(07:41):
regulations, and then I had tocommunicate those out to all
people as well. And so, again,he he put me in a position where
I was up in front of peopledoing culture change, building
these relationships, showing thevalue, executing on on the high
level strategic plan for thebusiness all along, like, just
(08:02):
making really, really goodfriends with really, really good
people, across the business.
And so I think in the firstyear, we improved our OSHA
recordables by 66%, and we atthe end of the day, we went,
like, almost thirteen hundreddays without an OSHA recordable.
Lauren (08:20):
Wow.
Matthew (08:21):
And so so it was it was really cool. And I think he
really what he instilled on mewith that experience was it's it
really starts with the people,understanding them,
understanding what their needsare, putting yourself in in
their situation. He he wants Iwas young and and dumb, and you
(08:43):
could argue if I still am. Butthere was a late Friday
afternoon, and we had amanufacturing facility, and he's
out walking around. And I'm justlike, it's Friday afternoon.
He's just killing time, wastingtime, like, disrupting all the
manufacturing from happening.But he was going around station
to station. He's like, hey.Like, how's little Johnny doing?
(09:04):
Like, you know, what about Sallyand, you know, her softball
game?
You know? Like, I'm like, thesepeople are trying to work. Like,
let let him go work. And, like,this was a total trap for me.
Like, he knows what he's doing,and I go up there, this young
this young punk, inexperienced,acknowledged, well, he
definitely taught me a lesson inthat day.
Lauren (09:24):
Oh, I
Matthew (09:25):
was like, you're just wasting time on the
manufacturing floor, You know,trying to, like, stick my chest
out and, you know, show off orwhatever. He's like, you know,
he put his arm around me, andhe's just like, tapas. The
leadership I'm walking aroundsaying, you gotta go and get to
know people on a personal levelYeah. For you to be able to lead
them. And I was like, schooled.
(09:47):
Totally schooled. So, yeah, hetaught me a lot of really,
really valuable lessons, aboutputting me putting people in an
opportunity where they don'tnecessarily see their strengths
for them to execute on theirstrengths and just hit goals and
do things that they neverthought that they could do. So
he was definitely a massiveimpact on me, drove me to be who
(10:09):
I am today. Still talk to himprobably once a quarter every
every six months, something likethat, just do a check-in. So
yeah.
Lauren (10:19):
That's a great relationship to have and also
something that I imagine reallysolidified your view or
understanding of whatprofessional development should
look like for every singleperson in the workplace.
Matthew (10:34):
Yeah. I agree because he he is a high level well, at
the time, and still is today,like, a high level leader in the
organization. So you have amillion things going. Right? But
he took the time.
I don't know what I did todeserve someone like that to
(10:55):
influence me. He's awesome.
Lauren (10:57):
Wanna talk, a little bit about how your, I guess,
approach, methodology, whateveryou wanna call it, to
professional development, talentdevelopment, has changed because
you've worked in so manydifferent industries. I mean,
I've seen you talked aboutmanufacturing. I know you're at
(11:17):
Gorilla Clue. Now you're inconstruction. Is it very
different across those?
Or I don't know. Fill me in.
Matthew (11:25):
Yeah. I've been in talent development for, I would
call it, fifteen plus years. Butpretty much my whole entire
career, it has been aboutculture and changing and growing
people, growing Yeah. Growingpeople to grow the organization.
And I think not much has changedfrom my perspective of how to do
(11:49):
it.
Meaning you have to establish aclear strategic foundation first
Mhmm. And then deploy the meansand and ways of of doing it. So
that hasn't changed, but the themeans and the ways of executing
(12:09):
on your strategy have definitelychanged from a lot of the link
like, online learning, likeLinkedIn. It was, you know,
Linda.Lindalearning or whateverwas it. And then it was popping
up, like automation.
You could talk about AI. Youcould talk about podcasts.
Lauren (12:31):
Mhmm.
Matthew (12:32):
So all of those things are are truly great and vehicles
to the end goal, for sure. Andas we as the talent development
industry continues to to growand expand, new new vehicles
will come out. There's no doubt.
Lauren (12:49):
Yeah.
Matthew (12:50):
But but the bottom line is the foundation doesn't really
change. And so, like, I'll giveyou an example of this. Right?
So I could go into anorganization and start teaching
leadership.
Lauren (13:07):
Right.
Matthew (13:07):
And that's great. K? But what what's what's the
meaning? What's the why behindthat? And companies could say,
well, it it's good.
It's good practice. It's,everyone needs to have good
leadership skills. I'm like, Idon't doubt that. There's I feel
good about teaching peopleleadership, but, like, what does
(13:30):
leadership mean to you and andyour organization? Because, you
know, there's a reason whythere's I don't know how many
leadership books there are.
There's probably hundreds ofthousands of leadership books
out there. Yeah. But which oneresonates with core mission,
vision, and strategy of theorganization?
Lauren (13:47):
Mhmm.
Matthew (13:48):
So we can go out, and we can hire consultants to teach
leadership and customizetraining and send our whole
executive team through it. Butbut what does what does
leadership mean to theorganization? So let's figure
out what that foundationaldefinition is, and then let's
build on that. That's yourblueprint. That's your strategy.
(14:10):
That's your this is why we'redoing it, and this is how we're
doing it. And then you buildyour foundation. And so from the
very, very beginning days, weput together a strategy, and we
had kinda a light a layeredlearning approach to it. But as
I continue to to grow myknowledge and talent
(14:32):
development, things that I addedto the blueprint or the
strategy, made it better, butit's still foundational. You
gotta have that strategy.
You gotta have that blueprint.You gotta communicate that out
to the masses. You gotta geteveryone on the same page. You
gotta have clear definitions ofwhat, for this example, what
(14:54):
leadership means. Mhmm.
And then what are the behaviorsthat show you are living that
leadership? Because as companiesgrow, you have people coming in
from different experiences,different companies. What does
that mean? Like, what what isthis company's definition of
leadership? Because we could goa lot of different ways.
(15:15):
And and I don't want to spendthousands and thousands of
dollars of teaching leadershipthat doesn't align with our
mission, vision values, and Idon't wanna pull people off the
job for days and waste thattime, energy, and money in those
talents to train them onsomething that does not align
with our mission, vision,values. So before we go spending
(15:39):
all this time, energy, andmoney, why don't we come up with
our company's definition ofleadership?
Lauren (15:46):
Mhmm.
Matthew (15:46):
Communicate that out so everyone's on the same page,
then we'll go find facilitatorsor in house expert, then we'll
execute on the training, printit out, and then we'll grow our
leaders from there.
Lauren (15:57):
It's really interesting that you had also brought up the
fact that especially in theseindustries, you have to bring
people in for this training. Youhave to take them off the job,
out of the field, away fromwhatever they're doing that
ultimately impacts, business andrevenue. And that is something
that in a company I used to workwith, we struggled with, trying
(16:22):
to make sure that whatevertraining we were going to offer
was super impactful or highlyrelevant to their individual
job, their responsibilities, or,like you said, something that
aligns with the company visionand mission and values and all
of those things. So I'mwondering, have you figured out,
(16:47):
like, I don't wanna say a hackto do that, but a a specific way
that companies can accomplishboth of those things, the
professional development forthese people who clearly want it
and and benefit greatly from it,but then also make sure that you
(17:09):
are still driving businessimpact, like, beyond the,
mission and values and thingslike that. You know?
Matthew (17:17):
Yeah. So I I think, you know, your question revolves
around, you know, how how areyou training and growing these
people when they also have afull time job to do? Yeah. And
that's that's a great question.I get it a lot.
You know, my my immediateresponse to that is their job is
(17:39):
to grow and develop and, quote,unquote, their full time job. So
that that's part of their job.That's the part of the
responsibility. One of theleaders of the organization I I
worked for, I have a massiverespect for, he once said,
promotion is optional. Growth ismandatory.
(18:00):
And he just set the tone withthat right there. So that really
created, cultural developmentacross the whole entire
organization to let everyoneknow that it's your job to grow
and develop. So put it on put iton your calendar just like, you
know, a meeting. So that's mythat's my knee jerk response to,
(18:23):
you know, that question is Yeah.When someone says, well, you
know, I got a full time job todo.
Well, your full time job is togrow and develop as well.
There's a saying that a lot oftimes I say is, don't be too
busy cutting down the tree tosharpen the saw because then,
(18:44):
you know, eventually, youcutting down the tree, you're
not cutting down the tree atall. There's some lean
construction, you know,terminologies and theories. You
gotta be able to slow down tospeed up. Right?
Lauren (18:56):
Mhmm.
Matthew (18:57):
So if I slow down to sharpen the saw, I'll be able to
speed up with my production. So,you know, I use those kinds of
things a lot, but, I thinkdepending on I I think that to
to answer your question on, youknow, how do you deliver
training when people have, youknow, jobs to do, I think it's
(19:17):
also situational Yeah. Dependingon what the training is. You
know, if it if it's a if it's a,like, a leadership training
that's focusing on relationshipbuilding, like, I wanna do so
you just gotta plan ahead andplan accordingly to get coverage
and know that the value of youbeing off the job learning is
(19:41):
greater than than you beingthere because the things that
you're gonna learn are you'regonna go take those and and
implement it and bring everybodyup. A rising tide raises all
ships.
Right?
Lauren (19:53):
Mhmm.
Matthew (19:54):
So you you have to have those kinds of conversations.
And then, you know, the so therebuttal that a lot of people
say, well, well, I'm too busy.Maybe this is not the right
training for you. Maybe we needto focus something else because
you should be able to run yourproject and be able to take a
day off and everything stillgoes smoothly while you're gone.
Lauren (20:13):
Right.
Matthew (20:13):
And those are the kind of leaders that we want to train
and grow. And so as long as weset that tone, I think most
people do wanna grow. Mostpeople do wanna there's
pressures of, like, your quote,unquote job, but to take the
mindset of a culturaldevelopment and part of your job
is to grow and learn so that youcan get better and more
effective and efficient, thatreally helps navigate those
(20:38):
reluctancies to, like, to go toa training. I'll give you an
example. So True.
Depending on what the trainingis, sometimes you have to go to
your customer. Mhmm. And so wetalked about a little bit
earlier about, you know, what'sreally changed in the talent
development world. And probablyabout ten years ago, I really
(21:00):
got into gamification, andreally saw the value, because
there's other larger companiesthat do gamification, you know,
like the Nike fit app or, like,even Starbucks. Like, go to
Starbucks, I get a coffee, thenI get a point.
Yep. And more points I get, thenI can earn another free coffee.
(21:23):
And, and so people are justnaturally drawn to that. This is
a phenomenal book. All realityis broken by Jamie McGonigal
that just is mind blowing.
And so we created thisgamification training program
that was online where people, nomatter where they were, could
(21:47):
just log on the computer, andthey could go into the sandbox,
accomplish a challenge that wassent to them, respond to it,
earn your points, show up on aleaderboard, and then win the
competition at the end of the atthe end of the we had thirteen
weeks of this challenge. But soI think it really depends on on
(22:09):
what it is. So, like, I knewthat I could accomplish my goal
of just knowledge transfer Mhmm.With a gamification model and
assigning a task to someone thatcould be accomplished online. So
this particular one, we gotfeedback with while I was
killing time with this concretepour, I was able to jump on, do
(22:32):
the challenges, learn what Ineed to learn, and then move on
to concrete pour at 03:00 in themorning.
So I guess, you know, kindaanswer your question is it all
depends on what you're trying toaccomplish and aligning the
vehicle to the end goal would bewould be how you would
accomplish that from livetraining to elearning training
(22:56):
to gamification to podcast,etcetera, etcetera.
Lauren (23:01):
Right.
Matthew (23:01):
So
Lauren (23:03):
So I know, we've talked a lot about how your, mentor has
influenced a lot of yourexperience and beliefs and, and
also just working in this fieldhas shaped your experience and
beliefs and knowledge aboutlearning and development. But
(23:25):
have you ever come across anemployee or two or three or
whoever, who have alsochallenged your assumptions and
maybe made you think differentlyabout the way that you were
doing something or the way thatyou couldn't prove the way you
were doing something?
Matthew (23:40):
Yeah. I think I I've had the opportunity to meet a
lot of different people thathave impacted my approach on
helping grow people. So knowingthat everyone's different and
knowing that everyone hasdifferent strengths, motivators,
behaviors, and weaknesses, youkinda gotta craft your style a
little bit different with eachone and then create create a
(24:01):
plan. So so, yeah, I feel likemost people in the training
development world get challengedevery day. Like, I don't have
time.
I don't need this. You You know,I remember I had I had a very
high level leader that we weredoing leadership training, and I
wanted him to look at the agendato see if we were missing
(24:23):
anything, see if he wanted toadd anything. And at the end, he
was like, yeah. This is good. Ilike this all, but he's like, I
I don't need to go through this,though.
Then I'm like, well, maybe youshould be the first one to sign
up. I didn't say that, but,like, if you have high level
(24:44):
leaders in an organization thataren't interested in
continuously growing or beingpart of something that they're
sending their their ownemployees through, like, that
shows a lot of character andattitude about their own
leadership skills.
Lauren (25:00):
Yeah.
Matthew (25:01):
Because I I don't and and, again, maybe I was spoiled
rotten by this one mentor leaderof mine, but, like, he would
never say anything like that. Hewould never he would never have
anyone go through something thathe hasn't already gone through,
and he he he wouldn't hewouldn't stop learning or stop
(25:24):
stop wanting to learn or attendtraining programs just because
he hit a certain level in theorganization. And so, you know,
I've been I've been withdifferent companies that you
have certain leaders that arelike, I made it to a certain
level. Like, I, you know, washmy hands. I made it here.
Lauren (25:47):
Yeah.
Matthew (25:47):
Now I can stop learning. I can kinda relax in
my personal growth anddevelopment journey. We've we've
we've hit it, so there's no morework I need to do. And I just
think that's that's a veryflawed attitude.
Lauren (26:01):
So since we're talking about forever learners, what is
a skill or something that you'recurrently working on to develop
in yourself? And then whatsparked that interest?
Matthew (26:14):
Yeah. I I'm I'm a super geek, and I really like to
watch, like, survival shows. Oneof the pieces of advice I
learned from one of those showsis, like, the first rule in
survival is don't panic. And,you know, a lot of times in
business, it's like you just getdropped off in the middle of a
desert, and now you gotta figureout, you know, you get just
(26:36):
dropped off in this problem. Youjust dropped off in this
conflict or there's a massiveissue that that you now gotta
gotta figure out.
Don't let these external factorsimpact how they go about
(26:57):
handling themselves. And so, alot of a lot of Navy Seal work
is around mental toughness ofhow can I control my own
emotions and thoughts to remaincalm, to remain strategic, to
(27:19):
remain that solid foundation forothers around you because
they're looking at you and howyou're behaving? And if you
remain calm and have a strategyand can execute in during chaos
Mhmm. Like like, that's that'sleadership. That is you're gonna
be a good problem solver.
(27:40):
And so, I really think theability to not let your own
personal emotions, behaviorimpact get impacted from
external factors really sets youup for success and the other
people around you up forsuccess, because you can you can
think clearly, you can thinkstrategically, and take, you
(28:01):
know, maybe a time of chaos andturn it into a positive outcome.
So it's a long journey. I mean,it is it's a very, very long
journey of building mentaltoughness for sure.
Lauren (28:16):
I can understand that. Speaking of journeys, before we
go, I want to ask about howthings are going right now
because I know this is a newchapter for you at Conger
Construction. So what excitesyou most about your role here,
the future of what you're tryingto do, the future of
professional development for allof your employees? What lies
(28:39):
ahead?
Matthew (28:40):
Yeah. That's a great question. I'm super excited
about this opportunity, becauseI feel like this organization is
is is a family, a family thathelps support each other, a
family that puts their armaround each other, and it helps
lift them up. It's it's a familythat looks at each other and
(29:04):
expects high quality product,high quality interactions, and
it's a family that has highvalues, high faith. And I and I
can really lean into that.
And so what I'm excited aboutthis opportunity is is just
(29:27):
really building relationshipswith those high quality
character people, and helpingthem make an impact in their own
personal lives, in theircommunity, and, you know, the
projects that we work on. So I'msuper excited about that. From
from the work perspective, itgoes back to what I was saying
(29:51):
before about building the strongblueprint to be able to build
foundation.
Lauren (29:57):
Mhmm.
Matthew (29:57):
And so the work that I'm doing right now is really
foundational. It's reallyunderstanding our true values,
our true mission, what we'retrying to accomplish, what our
strategy is, how we're gonnaexecute it, and how do we use
people growth and talentdevelopment as a vehicle to
(30:19):
execute on our strategy.
Lauren (30:21):
Right.
Matthew (30:21):
And so what that looks like is, again, building
building a blueprint that'scompletely transparent, provides
clarity for every single personin the organization on what's
expected of them, how it'sexpected to be done, what that
ultimate career path looks likefor them to be successful with a
(30:44):
career at Conger Construction.So that's, I mean, that's why I
wake up in the morning. Right?It's because doing the doing
that kind of work with reallygood people that that care, that
wanna make a difference in thecommunity, and providing that
pathway and and helping themalong that journey and seeing
(31:08):
the successes, seeing thefailures too. People are gonna
fall down, but you pick them up,dust them off, you learn from
it, you move on.
But that's, gosh, that that's soexciting. That's so moving
because if we can put togetherthat blueprint and that
foundation, that's so solid thatyears come, you know, when I'm
(31:30):
retired and this company is in abetter spot than when I left it
or when I was here, like, thatstill remains solid. That's
solid foundation for people tobuild their lives, to build
their communities around. Andknowing that that I was part of
creating that blueprint to buildthat foundation for people to
(31:52):
grow themselves and grow theircommunities around them, I think
that's that's the purpose. Thatthat's a purpose I can I can
feel really, really good about?
Lauren (32:02):
I think that is a great legacy to leave, leaving a
workplace better than you foundit. You know?
Matthew (32:10):
Yeah. I I would agree with that. So, yeah, this is
this is fun work. I mean, if youlook at the Gallup studies that
are out there, about the engagedworkers where it's I think it's,
only 30% of employees areengaged, and they have different
(32:33):
mechanisms to measure that.
Lauren (32:34):
Yeah.
Matthew (32:37):
I'm really happy to say that that I am beyond blast to
have had people in my life tonavigate me into a situation.
I'm kinda making my mission tohelp those other 70% that aren't
in that position and open theireyes to the options that are out
there to align their strengthswith the work that they do each
(33:00):
and every day. And I thinkthat's a good day's work that I
can sleep well at night withdoing that.
Lauren (33:05):
I think that's a sign of a excellent people leader. So,
Matthew, thank you so much foryour time and your knowledge and
your wisdom. I appreciate it,and I know our audience will
too.
Matthew (33:16):
Always good to talk to you, Lauren. Thank you for the
opportunity. Thank you for thethe vehicle to get the message
out to help continue to growpeople, hit their goals. And, I
look forward to continue talkingto you in the future.
Lauren (33:27):
Likewise. Thanks for joining us on getting personal
brought to you by lifestylebenefits experts at Compt.
Remember, you can always findmore stories and helpful
insights on our LinkedIn andblog.
Welcome to Getting Personal, a monthly podcast
diving deep into the stories ofthe heartbeat of HR, brought to
you by Compt, a global lifestylebenefits platform where
companies empower employees withbenefits and rewards they'll use
and appreciate, whoever andwherever they are in life.
Today, I have with me MatthewThomas, VP of people and
organizational development atConger Construction. Thanks for
(00:21):
being here, Matthew.
Matthew (00:22):
Yeah. Thank you, Lauren. I appreciate the, the
time we get to spend togetherhere today.
Lauren (00:26):
Likewise. So before we dive into what you're doing
right now, I know you have abackground in talent, but I'm
wondering, was that youroriginal career plan? I'll I
know a lot of people don'tnecessarily go to college and
say, I'm gonna do HR, so tell meabout how you ended up where you
are.
Matthew (00:47):
Yeah. For sure. No. I appreciate the question, and and
I totally agree that, mostpeople don't really know what
they wanna do when they're goingthrough college. Most people
don't have the proper guidanceto help them identify what those
things are that bring them themost those things.
(01:08):
And so I was I was no differentthan anyone else. I was just
trying to follow in thefootsteps of, you know, my
parents, the things that I knewknew of, my older sister, and I
just kinda did what I thoughtwas the right thing to do. And
when I was going throughcollege, I took, like, one HR
class. They didn't even reallytalk about talent. They talked
about policy and procedure.
And
Lauren (01:28):
Mhmm.
Matthew (01:28):
I don't know too many people that get totally geeked
out about, you know, policy andprocedure. I know there are
those, and we appreciate themgreatly. Right. But HR didn't
necessarily move me. Right?
And, it wasn't until I got a joband was working full time, and I
had a leader who I will call amentor now who I still talk to
(01:52):
after twenty plus years, whoreally had the ability to look
at someone, understand theirnatural character strengths,
where should they fit in theorganization that best them up
for success, put me in front of,different situations that would
(02:12):
utilize my strengths. And Ididn't even I didn't even know
that that's what he was doing,and that's the kind of crazy
cool thing about it. Right?Right? And so, he was helping me
live my strengths before I knewthat the strengths even existed
because going through college, Ididn't know talent development
existed.
He opened my eyes to this, justwith the the genius that he has
(02:36):
and the natural ability to lead,put people in positions where
they're gonna be set up forsuccess, and that's that's what
this guy did. And so from that,I knew that these things
existed, and, he was soimpactful to me that I was like,
you know what? Like, I cantotally dig this. Like, helping
(02:57):
people achieve their goals,putting them in a position where
they can be successful, puttingthem in a position where they
can utilize what comes mostnaturally to them. A majority of
the time for work, they're gonnabe better engaged.
They're gonna have a higherquality of life. They're gonna
have good family time becausethey had good work time, and
it's this this flywheel thatkeeps spinning in in with
(03:20):
positive energy as the fuelbecause they're doing what they
love to do. And if we can figurethat out, I truly believe
organizations will be highperforming teams, high
performing organizations, and,that's just what I've seen, and
and, I love it.
Lauren (03:39):
That's awesome. What traits do you think he saw in
you that, I don't know,indicated that this would be
something you'd be really goodat?
Matthew (03:49):
That's a great question. I still tell him
today. I was like, I have noidea what you saw in me or or or
why you did what you did. Why'dyou put your arm around me?
That's a great question.
I you know, it definitely wasn'tmy my facilitation skills at the
(04:11):
time. Mhmm. Because if you askme back then, would you rather
write, like, a 40 page paper orgive a four second speech or,
you know, presentation? I wouldlike give me the 40 page paper.
Interesting.
He he worked with me a lot onthat skill. I but what I think
(04:31):
to answer your question, what Ithink that he did is he saw how
quickly I can go intoorganizations or groups or
departments and build trust andbuild relationships and break
down the barriers and partnerwith them on trying to achieve a
(04:56):
goal, culture change kindathing. Because my first role out
of college that he was helpingme with was more of like a
customer experience role.
Lauren (05:05):
Yeah.
Matthew (05:07):
And I I had to if something happened with one of
our products or services, I hadto figure out why do a SWOT
analysis and and work with thecustomer and our people and
create and change policyprocedures and, you know, more
constructions and all thosekinds of things. And and and not
(05:28):
a lot of people like change, andso I had to go in there and pull
information and knowledge fromthe people and use their ideas
to make the good positivechange. And so not not really
knowing what I was doing becauseI didn't really take quality
training or classes in college.But after a year or two, like,
(05:51):
our quality numbers started toimprove.
Lauren (05:53):
Interesting.
Matthew (05:54):
So that was super cool. And then anytime you have change
or policy change or procedure orwork construction change,
anything like that, you gottacommunicate it out to the
people. Right? So change. Now wegotta communicate.
Now we gotta implement, executeon those new things. So that led
(06:16):
me to be up in front of peopleway more. And so I started to
facilitate. I started to createtraining classes on these new
policies and procedures and, youknow, all this kind of stuff
like that. And before I know it,like, I'm up in front of people
just speaking and presenting andfacilitating and doing some
instructional design andfiguring out new and creative
(06:38):
ways to really grab theattention of my audience.
And this he is just like amastermind, like, making things
where he's like, I knew this wasgonna work. You know? Like, he's
just doing it like that. And so,so we change quality for the
better, in about three years inthat role. And then, I was
(06:58):
getting kinda comfortable inthat role, and then he I kept on
asking him in our one on onesand touch base meetings like,
hey.
What's next? What's next for me?What's next? And so our safety
record wasn't really where itwas, where we wanted it to be.
Mhmm.
And I didn't know anything aboutsafety. Right? And so, again,
didn't take any college classeson safety, like environmental
(07:20):
health and safety. And so heentrusted in me to take over the
whole entire safety program, forthe whole entire company. At
that time, I think we had, like,a 50 people.
It was manufacturing, sales, andservice. So no Yeah. No small
task. But I had to learn the jetthe general industry, rules and
(07:41):
regulations, and then I had tocommunicate those out to all
people as well. And so, again,he he put me in a position where
I was up in front of peopledoing culture change, building
these relationships, showing thevalue, executing on on the high
level strategic plan for thebusiness all along, like, just
(08:02):
making really, really goodfriends with really, really good
people, across the business.
And so I think in the firstyear, we improved our OSHA
recordables by 66%, and we atthe end of the day, we went,
like, almost thirteen hundreddays without an OSHA recordable.
Lauren (08:20):
Wow.
Matthew (08:21):
And so so it was it was really cool. And I think he
really what he instilled on mewith that experience was it's it
really starts with the people,understanding them,
understanding what their needsare, putting yourself in in
their situation. He he wants Iwas young and and dumb, and you
(08:43):
could argue if I still am. Butthere was a late Friday
afternoon, and we had amanufacturing facility, and he's
out walking around. And I'm justlike, it's Friday afternoon.
He's just killing time, wastingtime, like, disrupting all the
manufacturing from happening.But he was going around station
to station. He's like, hey.Like, how's little Johnny doing?
(09:04):
Like, you know, what about Sallyand, you know, her softball
game?
You know? Like, I'm like, thesepeople are trying to work. Like,
let let him go work. And, like,this was a total trap for me.
Like, he knows what he's doing,and I go up there, this young
this young punk, inexperienced,acknowledged, well, he
definitely taught me a lesson inthat day.
Lauren (09:24):
Oh, I
Matthew (09:25):
was like, you're just wasting time on the
manufacturing floor, You know,trying to, like, stick my chest
out and, you know, show off orwhatever. He's like, you know,
he put his arm around me, andhe's just like, tapas. The
leadership I'm walking aroundsaying, you gotta go and get to
know people on a personal levelYeah. For you to be able to lead
them. And I was like, schooled.
(09:47):
Totally schooled. So, yeah, hetaught me a lot of really,
really valuable lessons, aboutputting me putting people in an
opportunity where they don'tnecessarily see their strengths
for them to execute on theirstrengths and just hit goals and
do things that they neverthought that they could do. So
he was definitely a massiveimpact on me, drove me to be who
(10:09):
I am today. Still talk to himprobably once a quarter every
every six months, something likethat, just do a check-in. So
yeah.
Lauren (10:19):
That's a great relationship to have and also
something that I imagine reallysolidified your view or
understanding of whatprofessional development should
look like for every singleperson in the workplace.
Matthew (10:34):
Yeah. I agree because he he is a high level well, at
the time, and still is today,like, a high level leader in the
organization. So you have amillion things going. Right? But
he took the time.
I don't know what I did todeserve someone like that to
(10:55):
influence me. He's awesome.
Lauren (10:57):
Wanna talk, a little bit about how your, I guess,
approach, methodology, whateveryou wanna call it, to
professional development, talentdevelopment, has changed because
you've worked in so manydifferent industries. I mean,
I've seen you talked aboutmanufacturing. I know you're at
(11:17):
Gorilla Clue. Now you're inconstruction. Is it very
different across those?
Or I don't know. Fill me in.
Matthew (11:25):
Yeah. I've been in talent development for, I would
call it, fifteen plus years. Butpretty much my whole entire
career, it has been aboutculture and changing and growing
people, growing Yeah. Growingpeople to grow the organization.
And I think not much has changedfrom my perspective of how to do
(11:49):
it.
Meaning you have to establish aclear strategic foundation first
Mhmm. And then deploy the meansand and ways of of doing it. So
that hasn't changed, but the themeans and the ways of executing
(12:09):
on your strategy have definitelychanged from a lot of the link
like, online learning, likeLinkedIn. It was, you know,
Linda.Lindalearning or whateverwas it. And then it was popping
up, like automation.
You could talk about AI. Youcould talk about podcasts.
Lauren (12:31):
Mhmm.
Matthew (12:32):
So all of those things are are truly great and vehicles
to the end goal, for sure. Andas we as the talent development
industry continues to to growand expand, new new vehicles
will come out. There's no doubt.
Lauren (12:49):
Yeah.
Matthew (12:50):
But but the bottom line is the foundation doesn't really
change. And so, like, I'll giveyou an example of this. Right?
So I could go into anorganization and start teaching
leadership.
Lauren (13:07):
Right.
Matthew (13:07):
And that's great. K? But what what's what's the
meaning? What's the why behindthat? And companies could say,
well, it it's good.
It's good practice. It's,everyone needs to have good
leadership skills. I'm like, Idon't doubt that. There's I feel
good about teaching peopleleadership, but, like, what does
(13:30):
leadership mean to you and andyour organization? Because, you
know, there's a reason whythere's I don't know how many
leadership books there are.
There's probably hundreds ofthousands of leadership books
out there. Yeah. But which oneresonates with core mission,
vision, and strategy of theorganization?
Lauren (13:47):
Mhmm.
Matthew (13:48):
So we can go out, and we can hire consultants to teach
leadership and customizetraining and send our whole
executive team through it. Butbut what does what does
leadership mean to theorganization? So let's figure
out what that foundationaldefinition is, and then let's
build on that. That's yourblueprint. That's your strategy.
(14:10):
That's your this is why we'redoing it, and this is how we're
doing it. And then you buildyour foundation. And so from the
very, very beginning days, weput together a strategy, and we
had kinda a light a layeredlearning approach to it. But as
I continue to to grow myknowledge and talent
(14:32):
development, things that I addedto the blueprint or the
strategy, made it better, butit's still foundational. You
gotta have that strategy.
You gotta have that blueprint.You gotta communicate that out
to the masses. You gotta geteveryone on the same page. You
gotta have clear definitions ofwhat, for this example, what
(14:54):
leadership means. Mhmm.
And then what are the behaviorsthat show you are living that
leadership? Because as companiesgrow, you have people coming in
from different experiences,different companies. What does
that mean? Like, what what isthis company's definition of
leadership? Because we could goa lot of different ways.
(15:15):
And and I don't want to spendthousands and thousands of
dollars of teaching leadershipthat doesn't align with our
mission, vision values, and Idon't wanna pull people off the
job for days and waste thattime, energy, and money in those
talents to train them onsomething that does not align
with our mission, vision,values. So before we go spending
(15:39):
all this time, energy, andmoney, why don't we come up with
our company's definition ofleadership?
Lauren (15:46):
Mhmm.
Matthew (15:46):
Communicate that out so everyone's on the same page,
then we'll go find facilitatorsor in house expert, then we'll
execute on the training, printit out, and then we'll grow our
leaders from there.
Lauren (15:57):
It's really interesting that you had also brought up the
fact that especially in theseindustries, you have to bring
people in for this training. Youhave to take them off the job,
out of the field, away fromwhatever they're doing that
ultimately impacts, business andrevenue. And that is something
that in a company I used to workwith, we struggled with, trying
(16:22):
to make sure that whatevertraining we were going to offer
was super impactful or highlyrelevant to their individual
job, their responsibilities, or,like you said, something that
aligns with the company visionand mission and values and all
of those things. So I'mwondering, have you figured out,
(16:47):
like, I don't wanna say a hackto do that, but a a specific way
that companies can accomplishboth of those things, the
professional development forthese people who clearly want it
and and benefit greatly from it,but then also make sure that you
(17:09):
are still driving businessimpact, like, beyond the,
mission and values and thingslike that. You know?
Matthew (17:17):
Yeah. So I I think, you know, your question revolves
around, you know, how how areyou training and growing these
people when they also have afull time job to do? Yeah. And
that's that's a great question.I get it a lot.
You know, my my immediateresponse to that is their job is
(17:39):
to grow and develop and, quote,unquote, their full time job. So
that that's part of their job.That's the part of the
responsibility. One of theleaders of the organization I I
worked for, I have a massiverespect for, he once said,
promotion is optional. Growth ismandatory.
(18:00):
And he just set the tone withthat right there. So that really
created, cultural developmentacross the whole entire
organization to let everyoneknow that it's your job to grow
and develop. So put it on put iton your calendar just like, you
know, a meeting. So that's mythat's my knee jerk response to,
(18:23):
you know, that question is Yeah.When someone says, well, you
know, I got a full time job todo.
Well, your full time job is togrow and develop as well.
There's a saying that a lot oftimes I say is, don't be too
busy cutting down the tree tosharpen the saw because then,
(18:44):
you know, eventually, youcutting down the tree, you're
not cutting down the tree atall. There's some lean
construction, you know,terminologies and theories. You
gotta be able to slow down tospeed up. Right?
Lauren (18:56):
Mhmm.
Matthew (18:57):
So if I slow down to sharpen the saw, I'll be able to
speed up with my production. So,you know, I use those kinds of
things a lot, but, I thinkdepending on I I think that to
to answer your question on, youknow, how do you deliver
training when people have, youknow, jobs to do, I think it's
(19:17):
also situational Yeah. Dependingon what the training is. You
know, if it if it's a if it's a,like, a leadership training
that's focusing on relationshipbuilding, like, I wanna do so
you just gotta plan ahead andplan accordingly to get coverage
and know that the value of youbeing off the job learning is
(19:41):
greater than than you beingthere because the things that
you're gonna learn are you'regonna go take those and and
implement it and bring everybodyup. A rising tide raises all
ships.
Right?
Lauren (19:53):
Mhmm.
Matthew (19:54):
So you you have to have those kinds of conversations.
And then, you know, the so therebuttal that a lot of people
say, well, well, I'm too busy.Maybe this is not the right
training for you. Maybe we needto focus something else because
you should be able to run yourproject and be able to take a
day off and everything stillgoes smoothly while you're gone.
Lauren (20:13):
Right.
Matthew (20:13):
And those are the kind of leaders that we want to train
and grow. And so as long as weset that tone, I think most
people do wanna grow. Mostpeople do wanna there's
pressures of, like, your quote,unquote job, but to take the
mindset of a culturaldevelopment and part of your job
is to grow and learn so that youcan get better and more
effective and efficient, thatreally helps navigate those
(20:38):
reluctancies to, like, to go toa training. I'll give you an
example. So True.
Depending on what the trainingis, sometimes you have to go to
your customer. Mhmm. And so wetalked about a little bit
earlier about, you know, what'sreally changed in the talent
development world. And probablyabout ten years ago, I really
(21:00):
got into gamification, andreally saw the value, because
there's other larger companiesthat do gamification, you know,
like the Nike fit app or, like,even Starbucks. Like, go to
Starbucks, I get a coffee, thenI get a point.
Yep. And more points I get, thenI can earn another free coffee.
(21:23):
And, and so people are justnaturally drawn to that. This is
a phenomenal book. All realityis broken by Jamie McGonigal
that just is mind blowing.
And so we created thisgamification training program
that was online where people, nomatter where they were, could
(21:47):
just log on the computer, andthey could go into the sandbox,
accomplish a challenge that wassent to them, respond to it,
earn your points, show up on aleaderboard, and then win the
competition at the end of the atthe end of the we had thirteen
weeks of this challenge. But soI think it really depends on on
(22:09):
what it is. So, like, I knewthat I could accomplish my goal
of just knowledge transfer Mhmm.With a gamification model and
assigning a task to someone thatcould be accomplished online. So
this particular one, we gotfeedback with while I was
killing time with this concretepour, I was able to jump on, do
(22:32):
the challenges, learn what Ineed to learn, and then move on
to concrete pour at 03:00 in themorning.
So I guess, you know, kindaanswer your question is it all
depends on what you're trying toaccomplish and aligning the
vehicle to the end goal would bewould be how you would
accomplish that from livetraining to elearning training
(22:56):
to gamification to podcast,etcetera, etcetera.
Lauren (23:01):
Right.
Matthew (23:01):
So
Lauren (23:03):
So I know, we've talked a lot about how your, mentor has
influenced a lot of yourexperience and beliefs and, and
also just working in this fieldhas shaped your experience and
beliefs and knowledge aboutlearning and development. But
(23:25):
have you ever come across anemployee or two or three or
whoever, who have alsochallenged your assumptions and
maybe made you think differentlyabout the way that you were
doing something or the way thatyou couldn't prove the way you
were doing something?
Matthew (23:40):
Yeah. I think I I've had the opportunity to meet a
lot of different people thathave impacted my approach on
helping grow people. So knowingthat everyone's different and
knowing that everyone hasdifferent strengths, motivators,
behaviors, and weaknesses, youkinda gotta craft your style a
little bit different with eachone and then create create a
(24:01):
plan. So so, yeah, I feel likemost people in the training
development world get challengedevery day. Like, I don't have
time.
I don't need this. You You know,I remember I had I had a very
high level leader that we weredoing leadership training, and I
wanted him to look at the agendato see if we were missing
(24:23):
anything, see if he wanted toadd anything. And at the end, he
was like, yeah. This is good. Ilike this all, but he's like, I
I don't need to go through this,though.
Then I'm like, well, maybe youshould be the first one to sign
up. I didn't say that, but,like, if you have high level
(24:44):
leaders in an organization thataren't interested in
continuously growing or beingpart of something that they're
sending their their ownemployees through, like, that
shows a lot of character andattitude about their own
leadership skills.
Lauren (25:00):
Yeah.
Matthew (25:01):
Because I I don't and and, again, maybe I was spoiled
rotten by this one mentor leaderof mine, but, like, he would
never say anything like that. Hewould never he would never have
anyone go through something thathe hasn't already gone through,
and he he he wouldn't hewouldn't stop learning or stop
(25:24):
stop wanting to learn or attendtraining programs just because
he hit a certain level in theorganization. And so, you know,
I've been I've been withdifferent companies that you
have certain leaders that arelike, I made it to a certain
level. Like, I, you know, washmy hands. I made it here.
Lauren (25:47):
Yeah.
Matthew (25:47):
Now I can stop learning. I can kinda relax in
my personal growth anddevelopment journey. We've we've
we've hit it, so there's no morework I need to do. And I just
think that's that's a veryflawed attitude.
Lauren (26:01):
So since we're talking about forever learners, what is
a skill or something that you'recurrently working on to develop
in yourself? And then whatsparked that interest?
Matthew (26:14):
Yeah. I I'm I'm a super geek, and I really like to
watch, like, survival shows. Oneof the pieces of advice I
learned from one of those showsis, like, the first rule in
survival is don't panic. And,you know, a lot of times in
business, it's like you just getdropped off in the middle of a
desert, and now you gotta figureout, you know, you get just
(26:36):
dropped off in this problem. Youjust dropped off in this
conflict or there's a massiveissue that that you now gotta
gotta figure out.
Don't let these external factorsimpact how they go about
(26:57):
handling themselves. And so, alot of a lot of Navy Seal work
is around mental toughness ofhow can I control my own
emotions and thoughts to remaincalm, to remain strategic, to
(27:19):
remain that solid foundation forothers around you because
they're looking at you and howyou're behaving? And if you
remain calm and have a strategyand can execute in during chaos
Mhmm. Like like, that's that'sleadership. That is you're gonna
be a good problem solver.
(27:40):
And so, I really think theability to not let your own
personal emotions, behaviorimpact get impacted from
external factors really sets youup for success and the other
people around you up forsuccess, because you can you can
think clearly, you can thinkstrategically, and take, you
(28:01):
know, maybe a time of chaos andturn it into a positive outcome.
So it's a long journey. I mean,it is it's a very, very long
journey of building mentaltoughness for sure.
Lauren (28:16):
I can understand that. Speaking of journeys, before we
go, I want to ask about howthings are going right now
because I know this is a newchapter for you at Conger
Construction. So what excitesyou most about your role here,
the future of what you're tryingto do, the future of
professional development for allof your employees? What lies
(28:39):
ahead?
Matthew (28:40):
Yeah. That's a great question. I'm super excited
about this opportunity, becauseI feel like this organization is
is is a family, a family thathelps support each other, a
family that puts their armaround each other, and it helps
lift them up. It's it's a familythat looks at each other and
(29:04):
expects high quality product,high quality interactions, and
it's a family that has highvalues, high faith. And I and I
can really lean into that.
And so what I'm excited aboutthis opportunity is is just
(29:27):
really building relationshipswith those high quality
character people, and helpingthem make an impact in their own
personal lives, in theircommunity, and, you know, the
projects that we work on. So I'msuper excited about that. From
from the work perspective, itgoes back to what I was saying
(29:51):
before about building the strongblueprint to be able to build
foundation.
Lauren (29:57):
Mhmm.
Matthew (29:57):
And so the work that I'm doing right now is really
foundational. It's reallyunderstanding our true values,
our true mission, what we'retrying to accomplish, what our
strategy is, how we're gonnaexecute it, and how do we use
people growth and talentdevelopment as a vehicle to
(30:19):
execute on our strategy.
Lauren (30:21):
Right.
Matthew (30:21):
And so what that looks like is, again, building
building a blueprint that'scompletely transparent, provides
clarity for every single personin the organization on what's
expected of them, how it'sexpected to be done, what that
ultimate career path looks likefor them to be successful with a
(30:44):
career at Conger Construction.So that's, I mean, that's why I
wake up in the morning. Right?It's because doing the doing
that kind of work with reallygood people that that care, that
wanna make a difference in thecommunity, and providing that
pathway and and helping themalong that journey and seeing
(31:08):
the successes, seeing thefailures too. People are gonna
fall down, but you pick them up,dust them off, you learn from
it, you move on.
But that's, gosh, that that's soexciting. That's so moving
because if we can put togetherthat blueprint and that
foundation, that's so solid thatyears come, you know, when I'm
(31:30):
retired and this company is in abetter spot than when I left it
or when I was here, like, thatstill remains solid. That's
solid foundation for people tobuild their lives, to build
their communities around. Andknowing that that I was part of
creating that blueprint to buildthat foundation for people to
(31:52):
grow themselves and grow theircommunities around them, I think
that's that's the purpose. Thatthat's a purpose I can I can
feel really, really good about?
Lauren (32:02):
I think that is a great legacy to leave, leaving a
workplace better than you foundit. You know?
Matthew (32:10):
Yeah. I I would agree with that. So, yeah, this is
this is fun work. I mean, if youlook at the Gallup studies that
are out there, about the engagedworkers where it's I think it's,
only 30% of employees areengaged, and they have different
(32:33):
mechanisms to measure that.
Lauren (32:34):
Yeah.
Matthew (32:37):
I'm really happy to say that that I am beyond blast to
have had people in my life tonavigate me into a situation.
I'm kinda making my mission tohelp those other 70% that aren't
in that position and open theireyes to the options that are out
there to align their strengthswith the work that they do each
(33:00):
and every day. And I thinkthat's a good day's work that I
can sleep well at night withdoing that.
Lauren (33:05):
I think that's a sign of a excellent people leader. So,
Matthew, thank you so much foryour time and your knowledge and
your wisdom. I appreciate it,and I know our audience will
too.
Matthew (33:16):
Always good to talk to you, Lauren. Thank you for the
opportunity. Thank you for thethe vehicle to get the message
out to help continue to growpeople, hit their goals. And, I
look forward to continue talkingto you in the future.
Lauren (33:27):
Likewise. Thanks for joining us on getting personal
brought to you by lifestylebenefits experts at Compt.
Remember, you can always findmore stories and helpful
insights on our LinkedIn andblog.
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