May 30, 2025 • 54 mins
So, ever wander through your local cemetery to visit a loved one and see some symbol on a nearby tombstone and wonder what that is? Well, today is your lucky day. Today, we will look at cemetery symbolism and tombstone art. Get something to drink, sit back, and listen to Ghost to Ghost.
You can listen to our Podcast, published every 15th and 30th of the month at midnight. Ghost to Ghost is a podcast by SPIRIT Indiana Paranormal and can be found on all popular formats. Where to contact us and follow us through social media: Web www.spiritindiana.com, Email info@spiritindiana.com, Please view and like our videos, and subscribe to our channel. YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@G2GIndiana, Please like and follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Spiritindiana1, Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/invites/com
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Sources and Resources
https://www.blog.billiongraves.com, https://www.pinterest.com/bivenshill/masonic-tombstones
https://penguinhall.org/mastering-cemetery-iconography/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:01):
in the dead of night when the moon is high and ill
winds glow and the banshees cryand the moonlight casts an
unearthly glow arise my lovewith tales of woe
SPEAKER_00 (00:44):
Good evening, it is 12 midnight, the paranormal
hour.
Welcome to Ghost to Ghost.
I'm your host, Chief Lawson.
Ghost to Ghost is a podcast todiscuss all paranormal and
parapsychology subjects.
You can find Ghost to Ghost onall major formats, so tell your
friends, tell your family.
Come listen to Ghost to Ghost.
Good evening, ladies andgentlemen.
It is that time.
(01:04):
It is the midnight hour.
It is time for Ghost to Ghost.
Tonight, we have a very specialepisode on the show for you.
Tombstones, symbolisms, and atthe end, we're going to throw in
a little epitaphs.
So, tonight with me is my cohortand my director, Heather Lawson.
SPEAKER_02 (01:24):
Hello.
SPEAKER_00 (01:26):
Tonight, folks...
We're going to start adding anew feature.
What is Chief drinking tonight?
Well, Chief actually is drinkingsomething a bit odd for Chief
because usually I'm a scotchguy.
But tonight I am drinkingBlackberry Whiskey.
I have just a little taste kindof veered off the normal track.
Where did you
SPEAKER_02 (01:45):
get the Blackberry Whiskey?
SPEAKER_00 (01:46):
From the bottle.
It said Blackberry Whiskey inthe bar.
Yeah, the Blackberry Whiskeycame from, yeah, thank you, came
from Black Dog.
Black Dog, I believe it is.
SPEAKER_02 (01:56):
Anybody, give it to you.
SPEAKER_00 (01:57):
No, no, this is one that I actually acquired on my
own.
I got it for the bar, and forthose who don't know, we have a
very large bar selection athome.
And it is a...
one of the staples we have forguests.
So what is Heather drinkingtonight?
An
SPEAKER_02 (02:16):
Amaroto Sour.
SPEAKER_00 (02:17):
There you go.
Alright, so that's what we havetonight, folks.
Now, moving along, we're goingto start out our episode and
we're going to talk about thedifferent things you see in
cemeteries on tombstones andstatues and some of the
markings.
You know, and I think a lot ofpeople and everyone's different,
(02:40):
but I've had some people say,well, you know, about the only
thing I ever saw.
As a matter of fact, I wastalking to a former member and a
fan of Ghost to Ghost, TroyPace.
And he told me, he says, youknow, all I really notice is the
Masonic stuff.
Well, that's just because we'reboth Masons.
I think that's the only reason.
But there's actually a lot ofstuff out there.
So, I mean...
We ought
SPEAKER_02 (02:59):
to take him to a Veterans
SPEAKER_00 (03:00):
Cemetery.
Oh, yes.
Yes, because you'll see a lot ofmarkings.
I mean, have you ever justwalked through the cemetery and
seen all these gravestones?
And I mean, if you really startlooking...
I had an opportunity, and inschool, I took, in high school,
that is, not college, in highschool, I took a dentology
course.
Now, I have to thank Mrs.
Dracu.
(03:21):
I don't know if she's stillalive.
She was my teacher, and shetaught several things, and I
ended up with, I graduated ayear early to start college, and
anyway, in the last bit of mycourses, I had to have a couple
fillers.
I had a three-hour block, butthe way it went when I was in
school, you had to have fillers.
four hours and a half schooling,or classes.
(03:44):
So in other words, you had tohave at least four and a half
classes, and you can't get ahalf class anywhere.
So Mrs.
Dragoo, my last year, let meactually take a reading course,
which was really neat.
It opened up my eyes to a lot ofthings, and I had taken her
reading course before, but shetaught tantology, and we went
out to the graveyards and lookedat stones and did rubbings.
(04:08):
It was just kind of aninteresting education.
So I thought we'd talk a littlebit about some of the things
we've seen, you and I, and thenwe'll talk about some things out
there.
For centuries, you know,cemeteries back in the beginning
weren't allowed to havefigurines or statues.
(04:31):
It was thought of as a bad idea.
Now, cemeteries, a lot of peopledon't realize, most of the old
ones, especially ones that areCatholic, are consecrated.
In other words, they're blessed.
And, you know, you'll see this alot in horror films, old horror
films, about how, you know, youcan't, demons can't come on, and
witches, um...
SPEAKER_02 (04:50):
Vampires.
SPEAKER_00 (04:51):
Vampires, things like that can come on
consecrated soil.
So a lot of the very oldcemeteries are consecrated soil.
So anyway, but they didn't allowfigurines for a long time.
And this comes actually becausea lot of religious people,
especially a lot of Baptists,Lutheran and so forth, they
(05:12):
always referred to the Bible inExodus 24, thou shall not make
unto thee any engraven image.
So they didn't want that.
I mean, for a lot of times, ifYou still get into certain types
of religions, such as some ofthe mainstream traditional Amish
and so forth.
They don't like their picturetaken because to them that's not
allowed.
(05:33):
But over time, that changed.
So we're going to take a quickbreak.
UNKNOWN (05:46):
We'll be right back.
SPEAKER_00 (05:48):
Alright folks, we're back.
Sorry about that.
We had a little bit of technicaldifficulty.
Okay, let's dive in.
So, one thing that comes up alot in cemeteries is angels.
And believe it or not, howangels and different symbolism
is depicted has meaning.
So, we're going to talk aboutcarved hands.
(06:12):
Whenever you see a hand carved,It can, depending on the way the
hand is posed, depends on whatit means.
Most of the time, if it's thedeceased relationship with God
or the others, they'll be inpraying hands.
There are sometimes clasping.
That can mean a very closerelationship.
(06:33):
Pointing.
Pointing is another thing.
And these are, a lot of peopleuse these as clues.
They would put things pointingto a general direction.
Go
SPEAKER_02 (06:42):
that way.
SPEAKER_00 (06:43):
Yeah, go that way.
So in Birded torches symbolizethe extinction of life or the
transition to the next realm.
Ivy.
This is what's carved in.
If you get some of the very oldstones, they're carved this way
and they're beautiful.
Ivy represents immortality dueto its ability to cling on
structures and thrive.
(07:04):
Skulls.
Memento mori.
Reminders of mortality.
Death must come.
Scrolls.
Scrolls can be a couple ofdifferent things.
They can symbolize a person'slife.
their past, their present,especially at the moment of
death, and the future and theafterlife.
If three, possibly it meansthat's the Tanakh, and it might
(07:24):
be part of the Judaism religionof showing those like we would
show a gray Bible.
There would be three distinctscrolls, if that be the case.
Sunburst, links with death andresurrection.
(07:45):
Now, in Masonic, that meanssomething different.
Weeping willows.
I've seen these on tombstones,especially very, very old.
Skulls and weeping willows, yousee these on very, very old, old
tombstones.
And, you know, I'm talking like1600s, 1700s or earlier.
Weeping willows representsorrow.
(08:07):
They embrace due to the droppingbranches, the drooping branches,
not really dropping, butdrooping.
Flowers, specific flowers canhave different meanings, okay?
Chrysanthemums for Sorrow.
Also for devotion.
And
SPEAKER_02 (08:23):
there's a whole language of flowers.
SPEAKER_00 (08:25):
Oh, God, yes.
Yeah.
And I don't want to get, becauseI've got to tell you, the script
here or our notes is a good 15pages long.
You would not believe, you couldwrite a book on the amount of
symbolism.
And I've thought about addingthat to my book collection.
I'm right.
I mean, this is a whole world initself, what's out there.
But daisies represent new birth,new life transition.
(08:48):
So flowers can have a lot to dowith it.
Now, nowadays, most headstonesare pretty simple they have
sometimes they have with thelaser engraving now sometimes
you have a set of wedding ringswith a i think my parents have
the wedding date on there theywere married some of them have
pictures of either somethingthey did when they were alive
(09:08):
like if they were a railroadmanthey might have railroad emblems
actually there's a separate seton railroad emblems all on its
own but they may
SPEAKER_02 (09:15):
have pictures of people on
SPEAKER_00 (09:17):
there sure i mean they laser engrave their
favorite image yeah it uh So,having said that, okay, let's
talk about architecturalsymbols, and these also slide
into Masonic.
Obelisk.
It became popular in the 19thcentury, very Egyptian, but the
Egyptian symbol has meaning.
(09:38):
It means eternal life.
It means into the heavens oreven rays of sun shining down
forever on the obelisk from thetop means everlasting life.
So...
Now, broken columns, they meantwo things.
We'll talk about that with theMosaic areas too, but broken
(09:58):
columns signify lives cut short.
And it means the same thing inFreemasonry, but broken columns
are more common in Freemasonry.
Urns symbolize the deceased bodyand the afterlife.
Drapery and a veil separatingthe living from the dead.
So if you see like a drape or aveil that is carved into the
(10:19):
stone, some of them are veryornate.
That is basically the thin veilbetween life and death.
I mean, you know, we deal withthat every day on
investigations.
Weeping figure.
Okay, generally display a griefof mourning.
Weeping figure can be sometimessymbolized in untimely or early
death.
Winged skulls.
Now, these are really popular inthe New England area around the
(10:41):
1700s.
Puritans, Methodists, a lot ofthese cemeteries had these.
Especially, and basically, youknow, death was a frequent
visitor in households back then.
Medical care wasn't good.
Certainly didn't have enough toeat.
Sanitation was horrible.
You know, and all this combined,they lost a lot of people,
(11:03):
especially infants and children.
So epidemics like smallpox,measles, whooping cough, you
know, they swept through thecommunities.
So this was a symbol ofmortality, and actually same in
Freemasonry.
Okay, then we got youth groups,and I have not seen these as
much as I've seen the markers,and that's Boy Scouts, the Boy
(11:24):
Scout emblem.
And you will see them from timeto time, and it's It consists of
three plumes on a Florida Lee,and it represents service to
others, duty to God, andobedience to the scout law.
And a lot of scoutmasters,lifelong scoutmasters that die
get these.
And then, of course, we have theGirl Scouts with the tree-fold
(11:45):
shape, represents the three-foldGirl Scout promise.
On my honor, I will try to serveGod and my country and help
people at all times and live bythe Girl Scout law.
So, same kind of thing.
Now, You know, I thought thatwas kind of interesting, and
then I actually, the other daywhen we were out dropping Dad's
topper off, I actually saw oneof these.
(12:07):
I thought at first it was a VFWemblem.
It was not.
It was a Boy Scout emblem.
So there are some out there.
Cultural and religiousinterpretations.
Now, these get really deep.
The Celtic Cross, the Lily, andthe Shield.
The Celtic Cross...
is a nod to ancient pagan sunworshippers, believe it or not,
as well as Christian symbolism.
(12:29):
The gravestone combines theLatin cross in the forefront and
the circle representing the sunat the back.
Irish legends claim that St.
Patrick introduced the Celticcross in Ireland as a way to
guide pagans to Christ.
At the center of the Celticcross is a lily.
Lilies have long been the symbolof hope and rebirth.
(12:49):
Even today, white lilies areplants most often sold during
Easter season.
So the gravestone symbolizes thehope of rebirth and restoration
of innocence for the deceased.
Lastly, the headstone has ashield at its base.
Usually shields or crests areused in Ireland to denote family
or clan relationships.
So, you know, it might have hadsome sort of special markings.
(13:12):
The Church of England has itsown emblem.
Church of Ireland.
Ireland.
I'm sorry.
Did I say England?
I'm sorry.
Of course, I have it fromhistory.
Church of Ireland.
The emblem on the gravestone isa tribute to the faith of the
deceased.
It reads, and I cannot begin totell you what that is in Latin.
My Latin is very rough at best.
It basically means the HolyChurch of St.
(13:33):
Maltos of Kinsale.
And the year it was found, itwas 1190 A.D.
St.
Maltos.
church, also called Church ofIreland, is the Old Norse-style
construction.
Old Norse-style construction.
I'm not sure what that is.
SPEAKER_02 (13:50):
It's of Old Norse.
SPEAKER_00 (13:52):
Yeah, but I still don't know what the Norse-style
construction actually is.
Colors dance across the woodenfloors.
You want to find out?
You want to look that up?
Shines through the stained glasswindows.
Ancient tombs fill thechurchyard, which is not
uncommon.
And this is something that we'vegotten away from this day and
age.
Years ago, your church youattended had its own church
(14:13):
cemetery, and that's where mostpeople were buried that attended
that parish.
And, you know, city cemeterieswere more for people who did not
have membership in a certainchurch or parish, and that was
where it came from.
And Heather is diligentlylooking up what Norse-style
construction looks like.
I should have noted that andlooked at that before we began,
(14:35):
but I did not.
Hinduism.
Cemeteries are seen in places ofcontemplation, reflection,
especially on the cycle of lifeand death.
In Judaism, they view it,traditions emphasize the
connection between the soul, thebody, and the body resting in a
sacred space.
SPEAKER_02 (14:54):
It would have been a like a longhouse.
SPEAKER_00 (14:57):
Oh, so it's done almost like a Viking longhouse.
It's given that kind ofarchitecture.
Now, I've not seen that, so Ican't help out there.
With Christianity, it'sprimarily the cross.
One cross called a Christogram,which has IHS in the center, is
an abbreviation for the nameChrist.
This symbol was introduced inIreland about 1780 and was
(15:19):
popular, highly popular in the1800s, early 1800s, before 1840.
It has to do with the Latinphrase And that is horrible.
That's the worst Latin I've had.
It means Jesus, Savior ofMankind.
I have seen these before.
And usually you will see them,and the IHS is in kind of a
(15:44):
diamond shape.
It's in the middle of the crosswhere Jesus' heart would have
been.
The other one is called a chiro.
It's an X with a P in the middlecoming up, and basically it's
Greek letters.
And it actually is a symbol thatcomes from Emperor Constantine's
vision, instructing him toinscribe a heavenly divine
(16:05):
symbol on his soldier's shields.
Now this was told to him to keepsoldiers from being defeated on
a tombstone it signifiesresurrection so ionic the ionic
greek cross and this cross on anirish gravestones combination
both the ionic greek and ioniccrosses flare out at the end so
(16:28):
this has like a three um it'salmost like a three leaf clover
out at the very end of it andeach arm kind of makes a plus
sign so it's kind of a and thishas some german backing but it's
actually equal spacing so youdon't have the long leg at the
bottom it's more even legs goinguh crossed of course we have the
celtic cross which we justtalked about and it has knot
(16:51):
work that celtic knotting that'sin yeah it's brought into the
cross itself for a look and umand then the sacred heart and
this is probably one of the mostwidely known symbols in roman
catholics is the sacred heart ofjesus it represents boundless
love of God for mankind.
(17:11):
This symbol, and this is usuallya heart with flames and a cross
protruding from the top,surrounded by a crown of thorns.
The image is on gravestonemarkers.
You'll see portraits of Christwith this, but these you see
quite a bit.
Now, here's one that I had notknown about.
Lions and oak leaves.
Strength, stability, endurance,and protection.
(17:32):
Both of these symbols also haveChristian connotations, as the
cross and the crucifixion wasbelieved to be The crucifixion
cross was thought to be made ofoak.
And the lion is a symbolic ofthe Christian God's power.
The Lion of Judea.
Okay, so angels.
We're getting back to those.
(17:53):
Often depicted as guides toheaven.
And we've talked about angelsbefore and how the angels we
look at are more the angels thatLeonardo da Vinci came up with,
not the real angels.
SPEAKER_02 (18:05):
Not biblical
SPEAKER_00 (18:09):
angels.
Nope.
That's another episode.
We're not getting into that.
How
SPEAKER_02 (18:11):
about you get one of those on your tombstone?
SPEAKER_00 (18:13):
Oh, that'll wake everybody up, wouldn't it?
Make them wonder where that camefrom.
Okay.
And Chief has to blow his nose.
Sorry about that.
Okay, now getting back here.
Okay, that's a bit of a longepisode, so everybody hang in
there, but there's a lot of goodinformation here.
Okay, so these angels' arms arecrossed, usually, and it means
(18:39):
they're seeking a blessing.
Of course, if they're praying,they're praying for the soul
that has perished.
And, you know, if they'relooking heavenly, they're
praying to God in heaven andasking for his blessing and his
guidance and Okay, anchors.
(19:01):
Oh, anchors have been around along time.
And symbolism of anchors goesbeyond the cemetery, but it's a
(19:21):
symbol of hope, right?
And it can also be a symbol of amariner, you know, a sailor.
So sometimes those are on both.
In Christianity, it's a symbolof hope.
And now, switching gears,another category.
Let's talk about the military.
You were bringing that up a fewmonths ago.
If you go to a military funeralor a military section within a
(19:46):
cemetery, you will find anegregious amount of markings.
The most common ones are crossswords, but...
That basically means a militarycareer.
It's not specific.
Now, of course, you have theAmerican Legion and the Veterans
of Foreign Wars, VFW.
Those emblems are quitefrequently seen on a lot of
(20:08):
markers.
And, you know, the top of thetombstone, if it looks like a
staircase, it's symbolic of thesteps Christ took to Calvary or
to Golgotha on his way to makeatonement at the cross.
Usually, there's There are threesteps that represent faith,
hope, and charity.
Now, these are the same threesteps that appear in Freemasonry
(20:29):
on steps as well.
Similarly, there are a type ofcross called the Calvary Cross
that is mounted on top of athree-tiered platform.
Beneath the pinnacle of steps onthe gravestone is an ionic cross
which flares outward at each endof each arm.
Okay, so, you know, if you'relooking at the emblems, the
(20:52):
American Red Cross AmericanLegion has a shield with a star
in the middle.
And there's several differentdivisions there.
You have the American Legion,which is what I used to belong
to.
You have Sons of the Legion.
(21:14):
which I'm trying to read a verysmall picture here.
SPEAKER_02 (21:17):
Sure, it's not Sons of the...
SPEAKER_00 (21:19):
Sons of Liberty, I think it is, isn't it?
No?
SPEAKER_02 (21:22):
Sons of the...
Revolution?
SPEAKER_00 (21:28):
No.
No, it is not.
Okay.
You have the Lady's Auxiliary,and then you also have American
Legion Riders, which is anemblem that's been miniaturized
in front of an eagle.
And...
Now, the ones we...
SPEAKER_02 (21:44):
It does say Sons of the American Legion.
SPEAKER_00 (21:46):
Oh, does it?
Yeah, that's what I thought.
That's Sons of the Legion.
And that's for people who didnot serve, but their parents did
serve.
And if they were members, theywere allowed to join.
These are not uncommon.
SPEAKER_02 (21:57):
We're looking at a picture.
SPEAKER_00 (21:59):
We're looking at a very small picture that someone
should have blown up, mainly me,a lot larger.
So, now, the one thing we didn'tcover is in the military.
You get in a military cemeteryor military section, you will
have individual emblems of thatindividual.
individual's career in themilitary.
And what is your emblem for 88M,88 Mike?
SPEAKER_02 (22:18):
It's a wagon wheel.
A wing.
SPEAKER_00 (22:23):
A wing, okay.
A good
SPEAKER_02 (22:24):
wagon wheel.
SPEAKER_00 (22:25):
Okay, so every division of the Army, divisions
of the Navy have the same thing,where Army and Marine Corps have
MOS, Navy has ratings, and inthe case of commissioned
officers have differentdepartments and areas, they all
have different markings.
SPEAKER_02 (22:40):
And you can get your religious symbol on there, too.
SPEAKER_00 (22:42):
Well, yes, yes, you can.
You can do a lot.
I mean, a cemetery tombstonethese days, it can be like
tattoos on your body.
You can really fill them up.
SPEAKER_02 (22:52):
So like an artist's canvas.
SPEAKER_00 (22:55):
I know several masons, if they had to put all
the emblems on the back,
SPEAKER_02 (22:59):
There wouldn't be room for their names.
SPEAKER_00 (23:01):
They'd have to have a bigger stone.
Yeah, I know guys that would dothat, too, not mention any
names, because he probablydoesn't listen anyway.
But true, Masons love, they loveemblems, they love symbolism,
and they love lapel pins.
And I'll never forget, there'stwo individuals that did not
take my joke very funny, but Ifound a meme that had a collar
(23:22):
extender.
It was like this extra cloth youput on your collar so you put
more pins on.
One poor brother's gone, and Ithought the world would
understand was FloydSondermeyer, a great guy, and he
loved wearing pins.
He always looked like, as we putit, a Chinese admiral.
Anytime you saw him, he had tonsand tons of pins.
There's another one, a gentlemanwho collects pins and titles
pretty well, and I'm thinkingthat that'd be right down his
(23:44):
alley.
Okay, so God forbid he passed.
I mean, I want to make sureeverybody understands that.
So let's get to the story.
Let's talk about some of theseother military emblems.
So if they were in airborne,they would have an airborne
emblem.
In the Navy, it all It depends.
They may have their rank.
They may have their rating or inthe Army and MOS.
SPEAKER_02 (24:04):
Yeah, they could have rank.
They could have any combat areasthey served in, if they had
SPEAKER_00 (24:12):
anything.
Yeah.
I mean, today, it's endless.
Now, for those that aren'tFreemasons, never grew up in a
family that had Freemasons anddon't understand the
symbolism...
That's another big area.
Probably military andFreemasonry is your two biggest
areas of symbolism in acemetery.
(24:32):
First of all, I want to start bysaying if you're in a Masonic
section, and a lot of cemeterieshave those, you'll have a broken
column.
a statue, a broken column in thearea.
They'll have names like AcaciaBoulevard and Hiram Walkway or
Abiff Avenue.
They'll have Masonic names, butalso sometimes they'll have a
(24:53):
column with a virgin weepingbehind it.
And she's standing over it andshe's weeping over the column.
Now, it means the same things wetalked about earlier.
A column is a sign of a Masonwho has passed.
And it doesn't really signify hedied early, died late.
It just means he has passed on.
He The working tools of lifehave slipped from his hands, and
(25:14):
he's passed on to that templenot made with hands, internal in
the heavens.
And some things, of course,everybody knows the standard
emblem.
The square, the compass overlaidwith the G in the middle.
Okay, and this is the moststandard Blue Lodge Freemasonry.
Anybody that's a Mason is goingto have this symbol.
And the G, for those who do notknow, it stands for God or God.
(25:38):
and we usually say sacredgeometry, which is what we
practice.
Now, it has a sunburst behindit.
It means he was at one timemaster of his lodge, and he's a
past master.
The all-seeing eye at the top ofthe pyramid, even with a
sunburst, this symbol representsthe idea that all deeds on earth
are seen by God.
(25:58):
He is often associated asoverseeing all freemasonry, and
that's why I love these peoplewho...
And this is always afreestanding thing, you know, in
my particular lodge.
Everybody always goes, oh, NewWorld Order, you guys killed
Princess Di.
Oh, my God, all the things theMasons did.
Yeah, you've been watching toomuch of the History Channel.
(26:20):
You know, Chris Hodep, a goodbrother and friend of mine, he
wrote a book called Freemasonryfor Dummies.
And I used to love to watch himon these shows.
Everybody would come out and go,okay, well, this is Washington,
D.C., an overhead map.
And it was laid out by Masons.
If you look here and you drawlines down these streets, it
makes a pentagram and a rampart.
And he goes, yes, if you do itthis way, it makes a horsey and
(26:40):
a doggy.
And yeah, I mean, you know, forthe people who think we're
taking over the world, come tomy lodge and watch these old
guys argue over an ice maker fortwo hours and tell me how in
charge we are.
Yeah.
Anyway, but.
Having said that, if thepyramid, anytime you have an
all-seeing eye, it representsGod.
(27:00):
God sees all.
He knows all.
He's completely omniscient.
A double-headed eagle hasrepresented the ancient and
accepted order of the ScottishRite, which is extra degrees for
Freemasons.
I've heard people say, well,he's a 32nd.
He's higher than a third.
No, no.
Anything above a third is justextra degrees.
You're never higher than amaster Mason.
(27:21):
But if you're a 32nd, you haveattained higher enlightenment.
So, as we call it, more lightand freemasonry.
Architect's tools, you'll findthese, the plum, the gavel,
you'll see a 24-inch gauge,you'll see a square.
These are all tools thatsymbolize that.
(27:41):
An acacia branch.
Now, acacia, to us, is a symbolof immortality and everlasting
life.
And it once marked a veryesteemed mason's grave.
So it's become common.
Years ago at funerals, if wewere having a Masonic ceremony,
and a lot of funeral directorshave quit planting evergreens
(28:09):
outside their establishmentsbecause we would break off
little bits of them and put themin our lapel as a symbol of
acacia.
And I'll never forget, I wastalking to one who's passed away
now who owned a very largechain.
He said, oh, we had to quitdoing I saw the damn brothers
kept killing the bushes.
He said, those aren't acacia.
He said, those are standardshrubs.
(28:31):
And he says, they're junipers,and they're expensive.
SPEAKER_02 (28:35):
That's just an evergreen.
Come on
SPEAKER_00 (28:37):
now.
Yeah, I mean, what we used to doa lot of times, we would take
apart an old Christmas tree.
When someone got rid of theChristmas tree, we'd dissect
that son of a gun, and everybodywould get a little branch, and
you'd put a little black bow onit, and you'd pin it on.
And that kept you from botheringthe live plants at the showing.
But anyway, I died.
grass broken calm with virginweeping we talked about oes now
(28:58):
this is a this is a primarily awomen's organization heather is
a member of the oes she holds astation of electra in her lodge
and but there's men there aswell you know i go uh the symbol
of the eastern star is afive-pointed star now a lot of
people mistaken this with apentagram it is not a pentagram
(29:19):
the bottom array of the starpoints downward symbolic of the
star that's shown over themanger of A biblical quote from
the Song of Solomon.
The five points of the star alsorepresent the five biblical
(29:41):
women and their exemplaryvirtues.
These are Ada, obedience toduty, Ruth, adherence to
religious principles, Esther,loyalty, Martha, endurance in
trial, and Eletra, endurance inpersecution.
And that is the station whichHeather currently holds.
So, and each one of the starpoints has a different color.
(30:04):
Heather's is red.
And so, anyway, that is, andyou'll see a lot of times on a
tombstone where the gentleman,it's a gentleman's wife on a
joint stone, and he has a squareand compass and a G, and she has
the eastern star.
So, having said that,Yorkwright.
Yorkwright has several, severalemblems.
It can be a four-corner Maltesecross with the words Inhofe into
(30:32):
it, and it can be a crown with across through it sideways.
These are emblems of the YorkRite and Knights Templar, of
which I am one.
And then you have the shrine.
The shrine has a scimitar, whichhangs below it, the dual tusk of
(30:53):
a elephant.
A center has the eastern starwith the head of a sphinx in the
middle.
And the shrine is a club forFreemasons.
There's also some women'semblems with that.
One that stands out I've seen ona tombstone is the mosaic
emblem, but instead of having inthe bottom where the star hangs,
(31:15):
they have a rose.
And that's actually Daughters ofthe Nile.
So the grotto has the samething.
They have their own emblem, andit is also a club for men.
And I don't want to get into afraternity talk here.
That's very easy to do.
Handshake on an arch.
That's another symbol of theearly degrees of York Rite
(31:38):
masonry, which is a KnightTemplar.
That's the orders of the arch.
Also, we have Knight's Pythesis.
And for smaller towns outside oflarger towns that did not have a
York Rite or weren't big enoughto have a York Rite, a lot of
them formed Knight's Pythesis.
And on that, you'll see aKnight's Helmet with additional
weaponry used Usually two fowlsor two spears or battle axes
(32:02):
crossing.
The knight's epithesis symbols.
The knight's helmet is chivalryand honor.
Skull and dagger, willingness todie for one's friend's cross,
which is Christ-like in love.
And FCB, the wording, that meansfriendship, charity, and
benevolence.
Other fraternal orders that arenon-Masonic.
You will see fraternal order ofeagles.
I've seen that before.
(32:23):
I've seen an independent orderof odd fellows.
Now, These have a three-linkedchain with the letters FLT,
friendship, love, and truth.
Now, I've seen, I know wherethere's a cemetery that's all an
Oddfellows Cemetery.
Now, if you really want to knowabout this, I want you to go
down and buy Chris O'Depp'sbook, and I hope he'll be
(32:43):
telling you on podcasts to comebuy mine.
But pick that up.
It has a lot of greatinformation on some of these
pendant bodies.
The Oddfellows came out ofFreemasonry a lot of things did,
and it was a form of laborunion.
They're still around.
They're not thriving any morethan any of us are, but they're
still around.
(33:04):
Another one, Knights ofColumbus.
Now, this was the Catholics'answer to Freemasonry.
At one point, when King Philipand the Pope Clement—now, this
is going back a bit, folks— Theyturned around and tried to
outlaw Knights Templar, and overthe years, especially in the
early 40s and 50s, Catholicismdid not welcome Masons, did not
(33:28):
believe in it until John Paulcame around and rebuked that.
But they formed their own calledKnights of Columbus.
And you will see a Maltese crossthat's turned to an off-center
so that your points are goingout at like 3 and like 5 and
like 7 and like 8.
10, and it has a shield withKFC, meaning Knights of
(33:51):
Columbus, on it.
It was named in honor ofChristopher Columbus.
Membership is open to males age18 and older who are good
standing in the Catholic Church,so you have to be Catholic.
Knights of the Maccabees.
Now, this is one that really gotme, because I had not seen this.
It's more prevalent in,actually, in Europe, especially
(34:12):
England.
I'd heard about it in England,and in Canada, and so forth.
It was founded back in 1878, soit isn't that old.
I don't know how well they'redoing, but their motto was Latin
phrase, Astra Castra NumenLumen, meaning the stars, my
camp, my deity, my light.
Likewise, the degrees, and I'lltell you, the emblem looks like
a tent, and inside of a worldglobe, a wire world globe, a
(34:35):
K-O-T-M written on it.
And so the K-O-T-M is known asKnights of the Maccabees.
It's just an abbreviation forthat.
And Any additional clues, Idon't really have a lot of
(34:57):
information on them, but it isin the book if you read Chris's
book.
Low order of the moose.
Now my grandmother, my mom'sside was a moose.
So was my, I think, yeah, mygrandfather may have been one
time.
Another one, and of course thatusually has a large moose emblem
on it.
And they have their own wateringplaces, so to speak.
(35:20):
That's what they actually callthem.
They call them moose wateringplaces.
And they have their ownbenevolent...
Charitable.
Yeah, charitable.
It's called Mooseheart.
And whereas when Freemasonry,each one of our orders has its
own charitable philanthropy, getit right here in a minute, it's
different there.
Now, something else which iskind of odd, and I've seen one
(35:42):
of these and didn't know what itwas, Salvation Army.
And I'll be honest, I'll be thefirst guy to tell you I don't
know a great deal aboutSalvation Army other than the
fact that once you join, you gointo their ranks, the Christian
ranks.
It's considered a Christian ArmyOrder.
And when you're buried, you canhave the emblem.
It's not the shield you see onthe thrift stores that says the
Salvation Army or the one outaround the bell ringers at
(36:04):
Christmas.
SPEAKER_02 (36:05):
Wouldn't that be
SPEAKER_00 (36:06):
something?
Yeah, it's a five-pointed crownover top of a badge with S and T
in the middle and has two crossswords and it says Blood and
Fire.
And then a ribbon below it saysthe Salvation Army.
And so...
Today, most everybody sees thered symbol, the shield.
(36:27):
That's pretty popular, but thisactually, and the symbolism is
the sun is the light and fire ofthe Holy Spirit.
The cross, the atonement ofChrist, S is salvation.
Swords, the word of God, sevenwhite dots, shot marks represent
the seven principles of thegospel.
I didn't see the shot marks onthere.
Oh, they're
SPEAKER_02 (36:46):
at the bottom of the blue circle.
SPEAKER_00 (36:47):
Yeah, I see them now.
Okay, I didn't see them atfirst.
Blood and fire, the blood Christshed for all mankind The crown
of the glory is given to God'ssoldiers who are faithful until
the end of time.
So, and you know, they've gotseveral buildings downtown.
We all know them at Christmastime for ringing bells and maybe
the thrift stores, but there's awhole lot more to that.
(37:09):
It really is.
Now here's one.
Who knew?
Yeah, who knew?
This is, this gets better, okay?
So as we go through this, andagain, hey, if you're on
Facebook, come over and ask usquestions.
I'll see if I can't find you theanswers for it.
You know, Next time you're goingto a cemetery, step in there and
kind of look around.
Now, I'm going to ask you tolook up the coins to make sure
(37:32):
I'm right.
They're left on graves.
That's something we didn't coverin the military.
I want to come back to you.
So before we move on, I have atest.
The last thing I have is thewoodsman of the world.
I had no idea.
And I looked in Chris's book.
Sure enough, their headstonesare shaped in tree trunks.
I've seen these at a couple ofdifferent older cemeteries.
Ones that go back into the 18,early 1900s, they're shaped like
(37:55):
tree trunks.
And I kept thinking, why wouldsomebody want What a tree-shaped
grave, Barker.
I mean, it's big and it's nice.
It's very ornate.
Well, it's actually a symbol forthe woodsmen of the world.
The fraternity turned insurancecompany.
And this is more fascinatingthan anything.
In 1882, founder Joseph CullenRoot heard a church sermon about
(38:15):
a pioneer man who was clearingthe forest to provide for their
families and inspired him somuch he wanted to help provide
others too.
So Root started the fraternityand it eventually became an
insurance company.
So if you see a stone that isshaped like a tree and it has
two crossed axes, pretty muchyou're looking at a woodsman of
(38:38):
the world.
Okay, we're going to backtrackfor a minute because something I
regret and I didn't cover whenwe were doing the military
section is an honor that is paidfrom one vet to another.
And we do this every time we goto my dad's grave marker.
And my dad's grave markers, ifIf you see coins on them, that
(38:59):
is a military tradition passedfrom one vet to another.
Now, penny means that you're...
I
SPEAKER_02 (39:05):
have the whole thing.
SPEAKER_00 (39:06):
Oh, well, go ahead and read it.
Yes, go ahead.
SPEAKER_02 (39:09):
It's just a little paragraph.
So leaving coins, particularlypennies, nickels, dimes,
quarters on gravestones,especially those of military
veterans, is a longstandingtradition that carries specific
meanings within the militarycommunity.
Each coin type signifies adifferent relationship or
connection the visitor had withthe deceased soldier.
(39:31):
or service member.
The practice became more commonduring the Vietnam War, offering
a way to show the respectwithout needing to engage in
potentially difficult politicalconversations.
Here's a breakdown of themeaning of each coin.
A penny indicates a generalvisit, a simple act of
remembrance and respect for thedeceased.
(39:53):
A nickel signifies that thevisitor trained with the
deceased at boot camp.
A dime represents a sharedservice experience, meaning the
visitor and the deceased servedin the military together in some
capacity.
And a quarter indicates that thevisitor was present when the
deceased service member waskilled or passed.
SPEAKER_00 (40:17):
There you go, folks.
So if you see coins on thegrave, it's not a tip.
Please don't pick it up.
It's a symbol of honor anddedication to that individual.
SPEAKER_02 (40:26):
The tradition dates back to the Roman Empire where
the coins were given to theferrymen.
SPEAKER_00 (40:30):
Yeah, they were.
also placed over the thedeceased eyes and it was to pay
for the uh carry is it carrycare on care on who was the
boatman that would would uhferry the deceased over to the
underworld and it was to pay theboatman care on so it's been
around for a long time everytime we leave there we didn't
(40:50):
obviously serve my father so weleave a penny um now I hope
that's been enlightening to youon these.
And we just did a small section.
Actually, I thought it would goa lot slower than that, so I cut
some of them out.
There's tons and tons ofsymbolism.
You know, I'll be looking in thefuture for a book from me for
that.
But anyway, yeah, if I ever getthe other one done.
SPEAKER_02 (41:12):
Yeah,
SPEAKER_00 (41:13):
and Richard, I am working on that.
Anyway, let's talk aboutepitaphs, which is kind of the
second half of this.
And for those who don't knowwhat an epitaph is, it's a
saying that's placed on thecemetery grave marker, normally
carved in the stone.
And the epitaph is a briefinscription on the headstone as
a memorial.
Sometimes it commemorates thedead.
(41:35):
It might have been in life,something he said.
And some of them are very, veryamusing.
And I've got several picked out.
My daughter used to say that shewas going to put on the back of
my headstone two things.
I know a guy, and I got a hellof a deal on this.
Because she always thought thosewere two sayings that I used
(41:56):
quite frequently.
Well, you did.
Well, I do a little bit.
So a lot of times there arefavorite sayings.
There might be nicknames.
You know, everyone calls meChief.
I imagine that'll beincorporated into mine.
SPEAKER_02 (42:09):
It'll probably be James Chief Christopher
SPEAKER_00 (42:12):
Lawson.
Yeah, something to that effect.
But my God, as I got into this,it's got fun.
And a good friend of mine namedTom Tuttle years ago gave me
one.
And I thought it was funny.
He was Irish, but he was on theback of the stone.
And it read, Remember, man.
As you go by, as you are now, soonce was I.
(42:32):
As I am now, so shall you be.
Prepare yourself to follow me.
Someone had taken a piece ofpaper and taped it to the
tombstone, and it read, Man, Iam content to follow you.
I only wish I knew which way youwent.
All right, so I'm going to readthis one, and I'll let you read
this one here.
(42:54):
Okay, here's a little differentversion of it.
Remember me as you pass.
As you are now, so once was I.
You just read that.
Yeah, this is a different one,if you don't mind.
Hang on.
As I am now, you soon must be.
Prepare to death and follow me.
My glass is run and yours isrunning.
Mind death for judgment'scoming.
(43:15):
Now, when it says your glass isrunning, you know what they're
referring to, right?
A hourglass.
So the sand's running.
Okay, you take the next one.
SPEAKER_02 (43:26):
This one?
SPEAKER_00 (43:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (43:28):
And that's from
SPEAKER_00 (43:41):
William Shakespeare.
SPEAKER_02 (43:43):
Yep,
SPEAKER_00 (43:45):
cemetery.
I'm going to incorporate some ofthat.
I want to put a curse on therefor anybody that stirs my bones.
Just because I think it's a goodthing
SPEAKER_02 (43:53):
to do.
Toil and trouble.
SPEAKER_00 (43:55):
Yeah, toil and trouble.
Yeah, move my bones and I'llcome for you.
All right.
Here's one that's really good.
This is Frank Sinatra.
The best is yet to come.
Here's from Dorothy Parker.
Excuse my dust.
Oh, Mel Blanc is great.
Of course.
Yeah, he did all the voices forall the Warner Brothers
cartoons.
That's all, folks.
(44:18):
You want to take four?
SPEAKER_02 (44:20):
Here lies the body of Jonathan Blake.
stepped on the gas instead ofthe brake.
SPEAKER_00 (44:26):
And he wrote that himself.
Okay, here's one.
Now, this really struck me.
Wait till you see who it's from.
Tomorrow is the most importantthing in life.
Comes into us at midnight veryclean.
It hopes we've learned somethingfrom yesterday.
That was actually John Wayne.
It just doesn't seem like him.
So...
SPEAKER_02 (44:47):
You'll be next.
SPEAKER_00 (44:48):
Yeah, I think that one.
There's another one I see thatsays, oh, no.
I think, oh, this is too good.
Okay, he never killed a man thatdid not need killing.
Robert Clay Allison, one of thegreatest gunfighters or outlaw
gunfighters there was.
SPEAKER_02 (45:05):
I'll never get out of this world alive.
SPEAKER_00 (45:09):
Hank Williams.
That seems like Hank Williams.
It really does.
Okay, here's another one you maynot know where this comes from.
I know in my heart that man isgood.
That's what is right will alwayseventually triumph.
And there is purpose and worthto each and every life.
Ronald Reagan.
SPEAKER_02 (45:30):
The entertainer.
He did it all.
Sammy Davis Jr.
SPEAKER_00 (45:34):
Gotta admit, seems like Sammy.
She always said her feet waskilling her, but no one believed
her.
Unknown.
SPEAKER_02 (45:42):
I will not be right back after this message.
SPEAKER_00 (45:45):
Yeah, that's a good one.
I will not be back after thismessage.
All right.
Good night, sweet prince.
John Barrymore.
SPEAKER_02 (45:55):
Okay.
I gotta go now.
Dee Dee Ramone.
SPEAKER_00 (45:58):
And you know who that is.
I do not.
He is the drummer.
Oh,
SPEAKER_02 (46:01):
from the Ramones?
SPEAKER_00 (46:03):
Yeah, Ramones.
Yeah.
Yep.
I believe he's a drummer.
Is he a drummer or a guitarplayer?
I
SPEAKER_02 (46:07):
had an inkling, but
SPEAKER_00 (46:08):
I didn't want to.
Yeah, he's from the Ramones.
Be wrong.
Yeah.
Will he be back?
Let's hope not.
Unknown.
This is a great one.
Go ahead.
SPEAKER_02 (46:16):
Letter it.
SPEAKER_00 (46:18):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (46:18):
Leslie Nielsen.
SPEAKER_00 (46:19):
You know...
Leslie Nielsen only made oneserious movie of all things.
It was Red Planet.
And, oh, God, watching it ishard to do.
Now, I love B-rated.
Me and Heather both like B-ratedshows.
But it's hard to watch thisbecause when you watch it, you
keep seeing the naked gun, twoand a half, or whatever, and
it's awful hard when he's doinga straight line.
(46:40):
You just keep wanting to go.
You're waiting for that punchline to kick in.
You know, it just doesn't seemlike him.
But Let It Rip does seem likehim.
True to your own spirit.
Jim Morrison.
Knights in white satin.
SPEAKER_02 (46:54):
They said I made my bed.
Now I'm lying in it.
Let me tell you, it's the pits.
Unknown.
SPEAKER_00 (47:01):
Oh, this is a good one.
I may be gone, but rock and rolllives on.
John Belushi.
I tell you.
A life cut too short.
All right.
You want to take the next?
SPEAKER_02 (47:14):
I told you I was sick.
Spike
SPEAKER_00 (47:16):
Milligan.
I think I've seen that on quitea few of them.
I told you I was sick.
I was hoping for a pyramid.
I like that one.
I may use that one.
SPEAKER_02 (47:26):
I found mine.
SPEAKER_00 (47:27):
Yeah, yeah.
I was hoping for a pyramid.
Unknown.
Go ahead.
SPEAKER_02 (47:31):
I am ready to meet my maker.
Whether my maker is prepared forthe great ordeal of meeting me
is another matter.
Sir Winston Churchill.
SPEAKER_00 (47:39):
I like that one, too.
That just seems like me.
I told you these taxes werekilling me.
Unknown.
Free
SPEAKER_02 (47:49):
at last, free at last.
Thank almighty, I'm free atlast, Dr.
Martin Luther King Jr.
SPEAKER_00 (47:54):
Here's a good one.
Here lies.
This just seems like him.
Here lies Thomas Jefferson,author of the Declaration of
Independence and the StatuesEstablishing Religious
Toleration in the Commonwealthof Virginia.
Thomas Jefferson.
He wrote it himself.
If you know anything about him,yes, you would understand.
If you've never got a chance tostudy him, he wrote his own
(48:15):
Bible.
And he took out the stuff hedidn't like.
It was kind of funny.
You really have to read on him.
He's quite the character.
You want the next one?
Yeah, I got it.
SPEAKER_02 (48:24):
The body of B.
Franklin, printer like the coverof an old book, its contents
torn out and stripped of itslettering and gilding, lies
here.
Food for worms, but the workshall not be wholly lost.
For it will, as he believed,appear once more in a new and
more perfect edition, correctedand amended by the author.
(48:48):
Benjamin Franklin.
SPEAKER_00 (48:49):
Anybody knows old Ben?
He was a brother.
There's a little bit of ritualmixed in there.
Murdered by a traitor and cowardwhose name is not worthy to
appear here.
Jesse James.
SPEAKER_02 (49:01):
Here lies Johnny Yeast.
Pardon me for not writing.
Johnny Yeast.
SPEAKER_00 (49:08):
Let the words of my mouth and the mediation of my
heart be acceptable on the sideof the Lord, my strength and my
redeemer.
Psalms 1914.
Johnny Cash.
SPEAKER_02 (49:18):
Here lies Ezekiel Akel, age 102, the good guy
young.
SPEAKER_00 (49:23):
There you go.
SPEAKER_02 (49:24):
Ezekiel Akel.
SPEAKER_00 (49:26):
Here lies George Johnson, hanged by mistake in
1882.
He was right, we were wrong, butwe strung him up and now he's
gone.
George Roy Johnson.
SPEAKER_02 (49:36):
I'd rather be reading this.
Esther A.
Freer.
SPEAKER_00 (49:41):
Here lies the body of Anna done to death by a
banana.
It wasn't the fruit that laidher low, but the skin of the
thing that made her go.
Anna Hopewell.
And this is from a Scottishgraveyard.
You want me to read it?
I got it.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (49:57):
The children of Israel wanted bread, and the
Lord sent them manna.
Old Clerk Wallace wanted a wife,and the devil sent him anna.
SPEAKER_00 (50:08):
That's just Scottish for you right there.
Yeah.
Here lies a man named Zeke,second fastest draw in Cripple
Creek.
SPEAKER_02 (50:15):
Here lies Lester Moore, four slugs from a.44.
No less, no more.
SPEAKER_00 (50:23):
Tombstone of a gunslinger, Lester Moore, a
Wells Fargo station agent forNarco, Arizona, in the cowboy
days of the 1800s.
He's buried in Boot HillCemetery.
And it says, here lies...
Well, I always say, I want to gothere.
That's why there's two I want tofinish with.
And one of them I couldn't findbeforehand, but we've got two
more.
And one of them, it was sohilarious.
(50:45):
It's a little stone attached toa fence, you know, surrounding a
grave.
So it's an old grave, and itsaid...
Husband, father, grandfather,and it said adulterer.
And it said, yes, John, I knew.
But tonight, folks, as we closethis off, it may be a little bit
of a shorter episode, buthopefully a more informative
(51:07):
episode for you.
I want to leave you with this.
I think this is the best stoneout there.
Here it is.
Here lies an atheist, alldressed up and no place to go.
Good evening, ladies andgentlemen.
It is now time for the GhostStory of the Day with Heather
Lawson.
SPEAKER_02 (51:27):
This is Last Chance to Turn Back from Cursed in New
England, More Stories of DamnedYankees by Joseph A.
Citro.
In the following pages, we willwitness a variety of New England
curses at work.
with all their attendant horrorpathos and occasional humor.
(51:47):
Please keep in mind that thisbook is not intended to be all
inclusive.
The sheer volume of Yankeemaledictions would make that
impossible.
At the very least, you wouldhold in your hands should be a
collection of entertainingstories.
At most, it is evidence thatthere are powers in this world
so subtle and sinister that theycan work inexorably against us
(52:12):
without our even knowing it.
In the interest of journalisticobjectivity, I have taken a
position one way...
You
SPEAKER_00 (52:26):
want to start again from the beginning?
SPEAKER_02 (52:28):
No, I'll just do that last paragraph.
UNKNOWN (52:34):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (52:35):
In the interest of journalistic objectivity, I
haven't taken a position one wayor another.
All I can tell you is that Ihave visited Black Agnes many
times, and I have never chosento sit on her lap.
SPEAKER_00 (52:52):
Thanks for listening to Ghost to Ghost.
Again, I'm your host, ChiefLawson.
You can find Ghost to Ghost onall major formats on the 15th
and 30th of the month atmidnight.
If you'd like to be a guest onthe show, maybe have a question
or subject you'd like to askabout on air, or be used on the
show, please email us atghosttoghost at
spiritindiana.com ghosttoghostat spiritindiana.com I want to
(53:16):
thank my production staff onSpirit, Jennifer Verne, our
research manager, and ourproducer, and Heather Lawson,
our trainer on spirit and ourpodcast director for helping
make these podcasts possible.
My chief of staff, Andrew Books,for his guidance and help on the
scripts and everyone elseinvolved.
Thank you so much.
See you next time.
(53:36):
Until then, stay safe andremember the truth is out there.
Good night.
Ghost to Ghost Podcast and itscontents is the property of
Spirit Paranormal LTD, allrights reserved.
We welcome you to download andplay the podcast and share with
others for personal use.
You may not, except with writtenpermission.
Use or distribute its contentsfor commercial use.
(54:24):
Thank you for listening.
Take care of yourself and theones you love and be safe out
there.
in the dead of night when the moon is high and ill
winds glow and the banshees cryand the moonlight casts an
unearthly glow arise my lovewith tales of woe
SPEAKER_00 (00:44):
Good evening, it is 12 midnight, the paranormal
hour.
Welcome to Ghost to Ghost.
I'm your host, Chief Lawson.
Ghost to Ghost is a podcast todiscuss all paranormal and
parapsychology subjects.
You can find Ghost to Ghost onall major formats, so tell your
friends, tell your family.
Come listen to Ghost to Ghost.
Good evening, ladies andgentlemen.
It is that time.
(01:04):
It is the midnight hour.
It is time for Ghost to Ghost.
Tonight, we have a very specialepisode on the show for you.
Tombstones, symbolisms, and atthe end, we're going to throw in
a little epitaphs.
So, tonight with me is my cohortand my director, Heather Lawson.
SPEAKER_02 (01:24):
Hello.
SPEAKER_00 (01:26):
Tonight, folks...
We're going to start adding anew feature.
What is Chief drinking tonight?
Well, Chief actually is drinkingsomething a bit odd for Chief
because usually I'm a scotchguy.
But tonight I am drinkingBlackberry Whiskey.
I have just a little taste kindof veered off the normal track.
Where did you
SPEAKER_02 (01:45):
get the Blackberry Whiskey?
SPEAKER_00 (01:46):
From the bottle.
It said Blackberry Whiskey inthe bar.
Yeah, the Blackberry Whiskeycame from, yeah, thank you, came
from Black Dog.
Black Dog, I believe it is.
SPEAKER_02 (01:56):
Anybody, give it to you.
SPEAKER_00 (01:57):
No, no, this is one that I actually acquired on my
own.
I got it for the bar, and forthose who don't know, we have a
very large bar selection athome.
And it is a...
one of the staples we have forguests.
So what is Heather drinkingtonight?
An
SPEAKER_02 (02:16):
Amaroto Sour.
SPEAKER_00 (02:17):
There you go.
Alright, so that's what we havetonight, folks.
Now, moving along, we're goingto start out our episode and
we're going to talk about thedifferent things you see in
cemeteries on tombstones andstatues and some of the
markings.
You know, and I think a lot ofpeople and everyone's different,
(02:40):
but I've had some people say,well, you know, about the only
thing I ever saw.
As a matter of fact, I wastalking to a former member and a
fan of Ghost to Ghost, TroyPace.
And he told me, he says, youknow, all I really notice is the
Masonic stuff.
Well, that's just because we'reboth Masons.
I think that's the only reason.
But there's actually a lot ofstuff out there.
So, I mean...
We ought
SPEAKER_02 (02:59):
to take him to a Veterans
SPEAKER_00 (03:00):
Cemetery.
Oh, yes.
Yes, because you'll see a lot ofmarkings.
I mean, have you ever justwalked through the cemetery and
seen all these gravestones?
And I mean, if you really startlooking...
I had an opportunity, and inschool, I took, in high school,
that is, not college, in highschool, I took a dentology
course.
Now, I have to thank Mrs.
Dracu.
(03:21):
I don't know if she's stillalive.
She was my teacher, and shetaught several things, and I
ended up with, I graduated ayear early to start college, and
anyway, in the last bit of mycourses, I had to have a couple
fillers.
I had a three-hour block, butthe way it went when I was in
school, you had to have fillers.
four hours and a half schooling,or classes.
(03:44):
So in other words, you had tohave at least four and a half
classes, and you can't get ahalf class anywhere.
So Mrs.
Dragoo, my last year, let meactually take a reading course,
which was really neat.
It opened up my eyes to a lot ofthings, and I had taken her
reading course before, but shetaught tantology, and we went
out to the graveyards and lookedat stones and did rubbings.
(04:08):
It was just kind of aninteresting education.
So I thought we'd talk a littlebit about some of the things
we've seen, you and I, and thenwe'll talk about some things out
there.
For centuries, you know,cemeteries back in the beginning
weren't allowed to havefigurines or statues.
(04:31):
It was thought of as a bad idea.
Now, cemeteries, a lot of peopledon't realize, most of the old
ones, especially ones that areCatholic, are consecrated.
In other words, they're blessed.
And, you know, you'll see this alot in horror films, old horror
films, about how, you know, youcan't, demons can't come on, and
witches, um...
SPEAKER_02 (04:50):
Vampires.
SPEAKER_00 (04:51):
Vampires, things like that can come on
consecrated soil.
So a lot of the very oldcemeteries are consecrated soil.
So anyway, but they didn't allowfigurines for a long time.
And this comes actually becausea lot of religious people,
especially a lot of Baptists,Lutheran and so forth, they
(05:12):
always referred to the Bible inExodus 24, thou shall not make
unto thee any engraven image.
So they didn't want that.
I mean, for a lot of times, ifYou still get into certain types
of religions, such as some ofthe mainstream traditional Amish
and so forth.
They don't like their picturetaken because to them that's not
allowed.
(05:33):
But over time, that changed.
So we're going to take a quickbreak.
UNKNOWN (05:46):
We'll be right back.
SPEAKER_00 (05:48):
Alright folks, we're back.
Sorry about that.
We had a little bit of technicaldifficulty.
Okay, let's dive in.
So, one thing that comes up alot in cemeteries is angels.
And believe it or not, howangels and different symbolism
is depicted has meaning.
So, we're going to talk aboutcarved hands.
(06:12):
Whenever you see a hand carved,It can, depending on the way the
hand is posed, depends on whatit means.
Most of the time, if it's thedeceased relationship with God
or the others, they'll be inpraying hands.
There are sometimes clasping.
That can mean a very closerelationship.
(06:33):
Pointing.
Pointing is another thing.
And these are, a lot of peopleuse these as clues.
They would put things pointingto a general direction.
Go
SPEAKER_02 (06:42):
that way.
SPEAKER_00 (06:43):
Yeah, go that way.
So in Birded torches symbolizethe extinction of life or the
transition to the next realm.
Ivy.
This is what's carved in.
If you get some of the very oldstones, they're carved this way
and they're beautiful.
Ivy represents immortality dueto its ability to cling on
structures and thrive.
(07:04):
Skulls.
Memento mori.
Reminders of mortality.
Death must come.
Scrolls.
Scrolls can be a couple ofdifferent things.
They can symbolize a person'slife.
their past, their present,especially at the moment of
death, and the future and theafterlife.
If three, possibly it meansthat's the Tanakh, and it might
(07:24):
be part of the Judaism religionof showing those like we would
show a gray Bible.
There would be three distinctscrolls, if that be the case.
Sunburst, links with death andresurrection.
(07:45):
Now, in Masonic, that meanssomething different.
Weeping willows.
I've seen these on tombstones,especially very, very old.
Skulls and weeping willows, yousee these on very, very old, old
tombstones.
And, you know, I'm talking like1600s, 1700s or earlier.
Weeping willows representsorrow.
(08:07):
They embrace due to the droppingbranches, the drooping branches,
not really dropping, butdrooping.
Flowers, specific flowers canhave different meanings, okay?
Chrysanthemums for Sorrow.
Also for devotion.
And
SPEAKER_02 (08:23):
there's a whole language of flowers.
SPEAKER_00 (08:25):
Oh, God, yes.
Yeah.
And I don't want to get, becauseI've got to tell you, the script
here or our notes is a good 15pages long.
You would not believe, you couldwrite a book on the amount of
symbolism.
And I've thought about addingthat to my book collection.
I'm right.
I mean, this is a whole world initself, what's out there.
But daisies represent new birth,new life transition.
(08:48):
So flowers can have a lot to dowith it.
Now, nowadays, most headstonesare pretty simple they have
sometimes they have with thelaser engraving now sometimes
you have a set of wedding ringswith a i think my parents have
the wedding date on there theywere married some of them have
pictures of either somethingthey did when they were alive
(09:08):
like if they were a railroadmanthey might have railroad emblems
actually there's a separate seton railroad emblems all on its
own but they may
SPEAKER_02 (09:15):
have pictures of people on
SPEAKER_00 (09:17):
there sure i mean they laser engrave their
favorite image yeah it uh So,having said that, okay, let's
talk about architecturalsymbols, and these also slide
into Masonic.
Obelisk.
It became popular in the 19thcentury, very Egyptian, but the
Egyptian symbol has meaning.
(09:38):
It means eternal life.
It means into the heavens oreven rays of sun shining down
forever on the obelisk from thetop means everlasting life.
So...
Now, broken columns, they meantwo things.
We'll talk about that with theMosaic areas too, but broken
(09:58):
columns signify lives cut short.
And it means the same thing inFreemasonry, but broken columns
are more common in Freemasonry.
Urns symbolize the deceased bodyand the afterlife.
Drapery and a veil separatingthe living from the dead.
So if you see like a drape or aveil that is carved into the
(10:19):
stone, some of them are veryornate.
That is basically the thin veilbetween life and death.
I mean, you know, we deal withthat every day on
investigations.
Weeping figure.
Okay, generally display a griefof mourning.
Weeping figure can be sometimessymbolized in untimely or early
death.
Winged skulls.
Now, these are really popular inthe New England area around the
(10:41):
1700s.
Puritans, Methodists, a lot ofthese cemeteries had these.
Especially, and basically, youknow, death was a frequent
visitor in households back then.
Medical care wasn't good.
Certainly didn't have enough toeat.
Sanitation was horrible.
You know, and all this combined,they lost a lot of people,
(11:03):
especially infants and children.
So epidemics like smallpox,measles, whooping cough, you
know, they swept through thecommunities.
So this was a symbol ofmortality, and actually same in
Freemasonry.
Okay, then we got youth groups,and I have not seen these as
much as I've seen the markers,and that's Boy Scouts, the Boy
(11:24):
Scout emblem.
And you will see them from timeto time, and it's It consists of
three plumes on a Florida Lee,and it represents service to
others, duty to God, andobedience to the scout law.
And a lot of scoutmasters,lifelong scoutmasters that die
get these.
And then, of course, we have theGirl Scouts with the tree-fold
(11:45):
shape, represents the three-foldGirl Scout promise.
On my honor, I will try to serveGod and my country and help
people at all times and live bythe Girl Scout law.
So, same kind of thing.
Now, You know, I thought thatwas kind of interesting, and
then I actually, the other daywhen we were out dropping Dad's
topper off, I actually saw oneof these.
(12:07):
I thought at first it was a VFWemblem.
It was not.
It was a Boy Scout emblem.
So there are some out there.
Cultural and religiousinterpretations.
Now, these get really deep.
The Celtic Cross, the Lily, andthe Shield.
The Celtic Cross...
is a nod to ancient pagan sunworshippers, believe it or not,
as well as Christian symbolism.
(12:29):
The gravestone combines theLatin cross in the forefront and
the circle representing the sunat the back.
Irish legends claim that St.
Patrick introduced the Celticcross in Ireland as a way to
guide pagans to Christ.
At the center of the Celticcross is a lily.
Lilies have long been the symbolof hope and rebirth.
(12:49):
Even today, white lilies areplants most often sold during
Easter season.
So the gravestone symbolizes thehope of rebirth and restoration
of innocence for the deceased.
Lastly, the headstone has ashield at its base.
Usually shields or crests areused in Ireland to denote family
or clan relationships.
So, you know, it might have hadsome sort of special markings.
(13:12):
The Church of England has itsown emblem.
Church of Ireland.
Ireland.
I'm sorry.
Did I say England?
I'm sorry.
Of course, I have it fromhistory.
Church of Ireland.
The emblem on the gravestone isa tribute to the faith of the
deceased.
It reads, and I cannot begin totell you what that is in Latin.
My Latin is very rough at best.
It basically means the HolyChurch of St.
(13:33):
Maltos of Kinsale.
And the year it was found, itwas 1190 A.D.
St.
Maltos.
church, also called Church ofIreland, is the Old Norse-style
construction.
Old Norse-style construction.
I'm not sure what that is.
SPEAKER_02 (13:50):
It's of Old Norse.
SPEAKER_00 (13:52):
Yeah, but I still don't know what the Norse-style
construction actually is.
Colors dance across the woodenfloors.
You want to find out?
You want to look that up?
Shines through the stained glasswindows.
Ancient tombs fill thechurchyard, which is not
uncommon.
And this is something that we'vegotten away from this day and
age.
Years ago, your church youattended had its own church
(14:13):
cemetery, and that's where mostpeople were buried that attended
that parish.
And, you know, city cemeterieswere more for people who did not
have membership in a certainchurch or parish, and that was
where it came from.
And Heather is diligentlylooking up what Norse-style
construction looks like.
I should have noted that andlooked at that before we began,
(14:35):
but I did not.
Hinduism.
Cemeteries are seen in places ofcontemplation, reflection,
especially on the cycle of lifeand death.
In Judaism, they view it,traditions emphasize the
connection between the soul, thebody, and the body resting in a
sacred space.
SPEAKER_02 (14:54):
It would have been a like a longhouse.
SPEAKER_00 (14:57):
Oh, so it's done almost like a Viking longhouse.
It's given that kind ofarchitecture.
Now, I've not seen that, so Ican't help out there.
With Christianity, it'sprimarily the cross.
One cross called a Christogram,which has IHS in the center, is
an abbreviation for the nameChrist.
This symbol was introduced inIreland about 1780 and was
(15:19):
popular, highly popular in the1800s, early 1800s, before 1840.
It has to do with the Latinphrase And that is horrible.
That's the worst Latin I've had.
It means Jesus, Savior ofMankind.
I have seen these before.
And usually you will see them,and the IHS is in kind of a
(15:44):
diamond shape.
It's in the middle of the crosswhere Jesus' heart would have
been.
The other one is called a chiro.
It's an X with a P in the middlecoming up, and basically it's
Greek letters.
And it actually is a symbol thatcomes from Emperor Constantine's
vision, instructing him toinscribe a heavenly divine
(16:05):
symbol on his soldier's shields.
Now this was told to him to keepsoldiers from being defeated on
a tombstone it signifiesresurrection so ionic the ionic
greek cross and this cross on anirish gravestones combination
both the ionic greek and ioniccrosses flare out at the end so
(16:28):
this has like a three um it'salmost like a three leaf clover
out at the very end of it andeach arm kind of makes a plus
sign so it's kind of a and thishas some german backing but it's
actually equal spacing so youdon't have the long leg at the
bottom it's more even legs goinguh crossed of course we have the
celtic cross which we justtalked about and it has knot
(16:51):
work that celtic knotting that'sin yeah it's brought into the
cross itself for a look and umand then the sacred heart and
this is probably one of the mostwidely known symbols in roman
catholics is the sacred heart ofjesus it represents boundless
love of God for mankind.
(17:11):
This symbol, and this is usuallya heart with flames and a cross
protruding from the top,surrounded by a crown of thorns.
The image is on gravestonemarkers.
You'll see portraits of Christwith this, but these you see
quite a bit.
Now, here's one that I had notknown about.
Lions and oak leaves.
Strength, stability, endurance,and protection.
(17:32):
Both of these symbols also haveChristian connotations, as the
cross and the crucifixion wasbelieved to be The crucifixion
cross was thought to be made ofoak.
And the lion is a symbolic ofthe Christian God's power.
The Lion of Judea.
Okay, so angels.
We're getting back to those.
(17:53):
Often depicted as guides toheaven.
And we've talked about angelsbefore and how the angels we
look at are more the angels thatLeonardo da Vinci came up with,
not the real angels.
SPEAKER_02 (18:05):
Not biblical
SPEAKER_00 (18:09):
angels.
Nope.
That's another episode.
We're not getting into that.
How
SPEAKER_02 (18:11):
about you get one of those on your tombstone?
SPEAKER_00 (18:13):
Oh, that'll wake everybody up, wouldn't it?
Make them wonder where that camefrom.
Okay.
And Chief has to blow his nose.
Sorry about that.
Okay, now getting back here.
Okay, that's a bit of a longepisode, so everybody hang in
there, but there's a lot of goodinformation here.
Okay, so these angels' arms arecrossed, usually, and it means
(18:39):
they're seeking a blessing.
Of course, if they're praying,they're praying for the soul
that has perished.
And, you know, if they'relooking heavenly, they're
praying to God in heaven andasking for his blessing and his
guidance and Okay, anchors.
(19:01):
Oh, anchors have been around along time.
And symbolism of anchors goesbeyond the cemetery, but it's a
(19:21):
symbol of hope, right?
And it can also be a symbol of amariner, you know, a sailor.
So sometimes those are on both.
In Christianity, it's a symbolof hope.
And now, switching gears,another category.
Let's talk about the military.
You were bringing that up a fewmonths ago.
If you go to a military funeralor a military section within a
(19:46):
cemetery, you will find anegregious amount of markings.
The most common ones are crossswords, but...
That basically means a militarycareer.
It's not specific.
Now, of course, you have theAmerican Legion and the Veterans
of Foreign Wars, VFW.
Those emblems are quitefrequently seen on a lot of
(20:08):
markers.
And, you know, the top of thetombstone, if it looks like a
staircase, it's symbolic of thesteps Christ took to Calvary or
to Golgotha on his way to makeatonement at the cross.
Usually, there's There are threesteps that represent faith,
hope, and charity.
Now, these are the same threesteps that appear in Freemasonry
(20:29):
on steps as well.
Similarly, there are a type ofcross called the Calvary Cross
that is mounted on top of athree-tiered platform.
Beneath the pinnacle of steps onthe gravestone is an ionic cross
which flares outward at each endof each arm.
Okay, so, you know, if you'relooking at the emblems, the
(20:52):
American Red Cross AmericanLegion has a shield with a star
in the middle.
And there's several differentdivisions there.
You have the American Legion,which is what I used to belong
to.
You have Sons of the Legion.
(21:14):
which I'm trying to read a verysmall picture here.
SPEAKER_02 (21:17):
Sure, it's not Sons of the...
SPEAKER_00 (21:19):
Sons of Liberty, I think it is, isn't it?
No?
SPEAKER_02 (21:22):
Sons of the...
Revolution?
SPEAKER_00 (21:28):
No.
No, it is not.
Okay.
You have the Lady's Auxiliary,and then you also have American
Legion Riders, which is anemblem that's been miniaturized
in front of an eagle.
And...
Now, the ones we...
SPEAKER_02 (21:44):
It does say Sons of the American Legion.
SPEAKER_00 (21:46):
Oh, does it?
Yeah, that's what I thought.
That's Sons of the Legion.
And that's for people who didnot serve, but their parents did
serve.
And if they were members, theywere allowed to join.
These are not uncommon.
SPEAKER_02 (21:57):
We're looking at a picture.
SPEAKER_00 (21:59):
We're looking at a very small picture that someone
should have blown up, mainly me,a lot larger.
So, now, the one thing we didn'tcover is in the military.
You get in a military cemeteryor military section, you will
have individual emblems of thatindividual.
individual's career in themilitary.
And what is your emblem for 88M,88 Mike?
SPEAKER_02 (22:18):
It's a wagon wheel.
A wing.
SPEAKER_00 (22:23):
A wing, okay.
A good
SPEAKER_02 (22:24):
wagon wheel.
SPEAKER_00 (22:25):
Okay, so every division of the Army, divisions
of the Navy have the same thing,where Army and Marine Corps have
MOS, Navy has ratings, and inthe case of commissioned
officers have differentdepartments and areas, they all
have different markings.
SPEAKER_02 (22:40):
And you can get your religious symbol on there, too.
SPEAKER_00 (22:42):
Well, yes, yes, you can.
You can do a lot.
I mean, a cemetery tombstonethese days, it can be like
tattoos on your body.
You can really fill them up.
SPEAKER_02 (22:52):
So like an artist's canvas.
SPEAKER_00 (22:55):
I know several masons, if they had to put all
the emblems on the back,
SPEAKER_02 (22:59):
There wouldn't be room for their names.
SPEAKER_00 (23:01):
They'd have to have a bigger stone.
Yeah, I know guys that would dothat, too, not mention any
names, because he probablydoesn't listen anyway.
But true, Masons love, they loveemblems, they love symbolism,
and they love lapel pins.
And I'll never forget, there'stwo individuals that did not
take my joke very funny, but Ifound a meme that had a collar
(23:22):
extender.
It was like this extra cloth youput on your collar so you put
more pins on.
One poor brother's gone, and Ithought the world would
understand was FloydSondermeyer, a great guy, and he
loved wearing pins.
He always looked like, as we putit, a Chinese admiral.
Anytime you saw him, he had tonsand tons of pins.
There's another one, a gentlemanwho collects pins and titles
pretty well, and I'm thinkingthat that'd be right down his
(23:44):
alley.
Okay, so God forbid he passed.
I mean, I want to make sureeverybody understands that.
So let's get to the story.
Let's talk about some of theseother military emblems.
So if they were in airborne,they would have an airborne
emblem.
In the Navy, it all It depends.
They may have their rank.
They may have their rating or inthe Army and MOS.
SPEAKER_02 (24:04):
Yeah, they could have rank.
They could have any combat areasthey served in, if they had
SPEAKER_00 (24:12):
anything.
Yeah.
I mean, today, it's endless.
Now, for those that aren'tFreemasons, never grew up in a
family that had Freemasons anddon't understand the
symbolism...
That's another big area.
Probably military andFreemasonry is your two biggest
areas of symbolism in acemetery.
(24:32):
First of all, I want to start bysaying if you're in a Masonic
section, and a lot of cemeterieshave those, you'll have a broken
column.
a statue, a broken column in thearea.
They'll have names like AcaciaBoulevard and Hiram Walkway or
Abiff Avenue.
They'll have Masonic names, butalso sometimes they'll have a
(24:53):
column with a virgin weepingbehind it.
And she's standing over it andshe's weeping over the column.
Now, it means the same things wetalked about earlier.
A column is a sign of a Masonwho has passed.
And it doesn't really signify hedied early, died late.
It just means he has passed on.
He The working tools of lifehave slipped from his hands, and
(25:14):
he's passed on to that templenot made with hands, internal in
the heavens.
And some things, of course,everybody knows the standard
emblem.
The square, the compass overlaidwith the G in the middle.
Okay, and this is the moststandard Blue Lodge Freemasonry.
Anybody that's a Mason is goingto have this symbol.
And the G, for those who do notknow, it stands for God or God.
(25:38):
and we usually say sacredgeometry, which is what we
practice.
Now, it has a sunburst behindit.
It means he was at one timemaster of his lodge, and he's a
past master.
The all-seeing eye at the top ofthe pyramid, even with a
sunburst, this symbol representsthe idea that all deeds on earth
are seen by God.
(25:58):
He is often associated asoverseeing all freemasonry, and
that's why I love these peoplewho...
And this is always afreestanding thing, you know, in
my particular lodge.
Everybody always goes, oh, NewWorld Order, you guys killed
Princess Di.
Oh, my God, all the things theMasons did.
Yeah, you've been watching toomuch of the History Channel.
(26:20):
You know, Chris Hodep, a goodbrother and friend of mine, he
wrote a book called Freemasonryfor Dummies.
And I used to love to watch himon these shows.
Everybody would come out and go,okay, well, this is Washington,
D.C., an overhead map.
And it was laid out by Masons.
If you look here and you drawlines down these streets, it
makes a pentagram and a rampart.
And he goes, yes, if you do itthis way, it makes a horsey and
(26:40):
a doggy.
And yeah, I mean, you know, forthe people who think we're
taking over the world, come tomy lodge and watch these old
guys argue over an ice maker fortwo hours and tell me how in
charge we are.
Yeah.
Anyway, but.
Having said that, if thepyramid, anytime you have an
all-seeing eye, it representsGod.
(27:00):
God sees all.
He knows all.
He's completely omniscient.
A double-headed eagle hasrepresented the ancient and
accepted order of the ScottishRite, which is extra degrees for
Freemasons.
I've heard people say, well,he's a 32nd.
He's higher than a third.
No, no.
Anything above a third is justextra degrees.
You're never higher than amaster Mason.
(27:21):
But if you're a 32nd, you haveattained higher enlightenment.
So, as we call it, more lightand freemasonry.
Architect's tools, you'll findthese, the plum, the gavel,
you'll see a 24-inch gauge,you'll see a square.
These are all tools thatsymbolize that.
(27:41):
An acacia branch.
Now, acacia, to us, is a symbolof immortality and everlasting
life.
And it once marked a veryesteemed mason's grave.
So it's become common.
Years ago at funerals, if wewere having a Masonic ceremony,
and a lot of funeral directorshave quit planting evergreens
(28:09):
outside their establishmentsbecause we would break off
little bits of them and put themin our lapel as a symbol of
acacia.
And I'll never forget, I wastalking to one who's passed away
now who owned a very largechain.
He said, oh, we had to quitdoing I saw the damn brothers
kept killing the bushes.
He said, those aren't acacia.
He said, those are standardshrubs.
(28:31):
And he says, they're junipers,and they're expensive.
SPEAKER_02 (28:35):
That's just an evergreen.
Come on
SPEAKER_00 (28:37):
now.
Yeah, I mean, what we used to doa lot of times, we would take
apart an old Christmas tree.
When someone got rid of theChristmas tree, we'd dissect
that son of a gun, and everybodywould get a little branch, and
you'd put a little black bow onit, and you'd pin it on.
And that kept you from botheringthe live plants at the showing.
But anyway, I died.
grass broken calm with virginweeping we talked about oes now
(28:58):
this is a this is a primarily awomen's organization heather is
a member of the oes she holds astation of electra in her lodge
and but there's men there aswell you know i go uh the symbol
of the eastern star is afive-pointed star now a lot of
people mistaken this with apentagram it is not a pentagram
(29:19):
the bottom array of the starpoints downward symbolic of the
star that's shown over themanger of A biblical quote from
the Song of Solomon.
The five points of the star alsorepresent the five biblical
(29:41):
women and their exemplaryvirtues.
These are Ada, obedience toduty, Ruth, adherence to
religious principles, Esther,loyalty, Martha, endurance in
trial, and Eletra, endurance inpersecution.
And that is the station whichHeather currently holds.
So, and each one of the starpoints has a different color.
(30:04):
Heather's is red.
And so, anyway, that is, andyou'll see a lot of times on a
tombstone where the gentleman,it's a gentleman's wife on a
joint stone, and he has a squareand compass and a G, and she has
the eastern star.
So, having said that,Yorkwright.
Yorkwright has several, severalemblems.
It can be a four-corner Maltesecross with the words Inhofe into
(30:32):
it, and it can be a crown with across through it sideways.
These are emblems of the YorkRite and Knights Templar, of
which I am one.
And then you have the shrine.
The shrine has a scimitar, whichhangs below it, the dual tusk of
(30:53):
a elephant.
A center has the eastern starwith the head of a sphinx in the
middle.
And the shrine is a club forFreemasons.
There's also some women'semblems with that.
One that stands out I've seen ona tombstone is the mosaic
emblem, but instead of having inthe bottom where the star hangs,
(31:15):
they have a rose.
And that's actually Daughters ofthe Nile.
So the grotto has the samething.
They have their own emblem, andit is also a club for men.
And I don't want to get into afraternity talk here.
That's very easy to do.
Handshake on an arch.
That's another symbol of theearly degrees of York Rite
(31:38):
masonry, which is a KnightTemplar.
That's the orders of the arch.
Also, we have Knight's Pythesis.
And for smaller towns outside oflarger towns that did not have a
York Rite or weren't big enoughto have a York Rite, a lot of
them formed Knight's Pythesis.
And on that, you'll see aKnight's Helmet with additional
weaponry used Usually two fowlsor two spears or battle axes
(32:02):
crossing.
The knight's epithesis symbols.
The knight's helmet is chivalryand honor.
Skull and dagger, willingness todie for one's friend's cross,
which is Christ-like in love.
And FCB, the wording, that meansfriendship, charity, and
benevolence.
Other fraternal orders that arenon-Masonic.
You will see fraternal order ofeagles.
I've seen that before.
(32:23):
I've seen an independent orderof odd fellows.
Now, These have a three-linkedchain with the letters FLT,
friendship, love, and truth.
Now, I've seen, I know wherethere's a cemetery that's all an
Oddfellows Cemetery.
Now, if you really want to knowabout this, I want you to go
down and buy Chris O'Depp'sbook, and I hope he'll be
(32:43):
telling you on podcasts to comebuy mine.
But pick that up.
It has a lot of greatinformation on some of these
pendant bodies.
The Oddfellows came out ofFreemasonry a lot of things did,
and it was a form of laborunion.
They're still around.
They're not thriving any morethan any of us are, but they're
still around.
(33:04):
Another one, Knights ofColumbus.
Now, this was the Catholics'answer to Freemasonry.
At one point, when King Philipand the Pope Clement—now, this
is going back a bit, folks— Theyturned around and tried to
outlaw Knights Templar, and overthe years, especially in the
early 40s and 50s, Catholicismdid not welcome Masons, did not
(33:28):
believe in it until John Paulcame around and rebuked that.
But they formed their own calledKnights of Columbus.
And you will see a Maltese crossthat's turned to an off-center
so that your points are goingout at like 3 and like 5 and
like 7 and like 8.
10, and it has a shield withKFC, meaning Knights of
(33:51):
Columbus, on it.
It was named in honor ofChristopher Columbus.
Membership is open to males age18 and older who are good
standing in the Catholic Church,so you have to be Catholic.
Knights of the Maccabees.
Now, this is one that really gotme, because I had not seen this.
It's more prevalent in,actually, in Europe, especially
(34:12):
England.
I'd heard about it in England,and in Canada, and so forth.
It was founded back in 1878, soit isn't that old.
I don't know how well they'redoing, but their motto was Latin
phrase, Astra Castra NumenLumen, meaning the stars, my
camp, my deity, my light.
Likewise, the degrees, and I'lltell you, the emblem looks like
a tent, and inside of a worldglobe, a wire world globe, a
(34:35):
K-O-T-M written on it.
And so the K-O-T-M is known asKnights of the Maccabees.
It's just an abbreviation forthat.
And Any additional clues, Idon't really have a lot of
(34:57):
information on them, but it isin the book if you read Chris's
book.
Low order of the moose.
Now my grandmother, my mom'sside was a moose.
So was my, I think, yeah, mygrandfather may have been one
time.
Another one, and of course thatusually has a large moose emblem
on it.
And they have their own wateringplaces, so to speak.
(35:20):
That's what they actually callthem.
They call them moose wateringplaces.
And they have their ownbenevolent...
Charitable.
Yeah, charitable.
It's called Mooseheart.
And whereas when Freemasonry,each one of our orders has its
own charitable philanthropy, getit right here in a minute, it's
different there.
Now, something else which iskind of odd, and I've seen one
(35:42):
of these and didn't know what itwas, Salvation Army.
And I'll be honest, I'll be thefirst guy to tell you I don't
know a great deal aboutSalvation Army other than the
fact that once you join, you gointo their ranks, the Christian
ranks.
It's considered a Christian ArmyOrder.
And when you're buried, you canhave the emblem.
It's not the shield you see onthe thrift stores that says the
Salvation Army or the one outaround the bell ringers at
(36:04):
Christmas.
SPEAKER_02 (36:05):
Wouldn't that be
SPEAKER_00 (36:06):
something?
Yeah, it's a five-pointed crownover top of a badge with S and T
in the middle and has two crossswords and it says Blood and
Fire.
And then a ribbon below it saysthe Salvation Army.
And so...
Today, most everybody sees thered symbol, the shield.
(36:27):
That's pretty popular, but thisactually, and the symbolism is
the sun is the light and fire ofthe Holy Spirit.
The cross, the atonement ofChrist, S is salvation.
Swords, the word of God, sevenwhite dots, shot marks represent
the seven principles of thegospel.
I didn't see the shot marks onthere.
Oh, they're
SPEAKER_02 (36:46):
at the bottom of the blue circle.
SPEAKER_00 (36:47):
Yeah, I see them now.
Okay, I didn't see them atfirst.
Blood and fire, the blood Christshed for all mankind The crown
of the glory is given to God'ssoldiers who are faithful until
the end of time.
So, and you know, they've gotseveral buildings downtown.
We all know them at Christmastime for ringing bells and maybe
the thrift stores, but there's awhole lot more to that.
(37:09):
It really is.
Now here's one.
Who knew?
Yeah, who knew?
This is, this gets better, okay?
So as we go through this, andagain, hey, if you're on
Facebook, come over and ask usquestions.
I'll see if I can't find you theanswers for it.
You know, Next time you're goingto a cemetery, step in there and
kind of look around.
Now, I'm going to ask you tolook up the coins to make sure
(37:32):
I'm right.
They're left on graves.
That's something we didn't coverin the military.
I want to come back to you.
So before we move on, I have atest.
The last thing I have is thewoodsman of the world.
I had no idea.
And I looked in Chris's book.
Sure enough, their headstonesare shaped in tree trunks.
I've seen these at a couple ofdifferent older cemeteries.
Ones that go back into the 18,early 1900s, they're shaped like
(37:55):
tree trunks.
And I kept thinking, why wouldsomebody want What a tree-shaped
grave, Barker.
I mean, it's big and it's nice.
It's very ornate.
Well, it's actually a symbol forthe woodsmen of the world.
The fraternity turned insurancecompany.
And this is more fascinatingthan anything.
In 1882, founder Joseph CullenRoot heard a church sermon about
(38:15):
a pioneer man who was clearingthe forest to provide for their
families and inspired him somuch he wanted to help provide
others too.
So Root started the fraternityand it eventually became an
insurance company.
So if you see a stone that isshaped like a tree and it has
two crossed axes, pretty muchyou're looking at a woodsman of
(38:38):
the world.
Okay, we're going to backtrackfor a minute because something I
regret and I didn't cover whenwe were doing the military
section is an honor that is paidfrom one vet to another.
And we do this every time we goto my dad's grave marker.
And my dad's grave markers, ifIf you see coins on them, that
(38:59):
is a military tradition passedfrom one vet to another.
Now, penny means that you're...
I
SPEAKER_02 (39:05):
have the whole thing.
SPEAKER_00 (39:06):
Oh, well, go ahead and read it.
Yes, go ahead.
SPEAKER_02 (39:09):
It's just a little paragraph.
So leaving coins, particularlypennies, nickels, dimes,
quarters on gravestones,especially those of military
veterans, is a longstandingtradition that carries specific
meanings within the militarycommunity.
Each coin type signifies adifferent relationship or
connection the visitor had withthe deceased soldier.
(39:31):
or service member.
The practice became more commonduring the Vietnam War, offering
a way to show the respectwithout needing to engage in
potentially difficult politicalconversations.
Here's a breakdown of themeaning of each coin.
A penny indicates a generalvisit, a simple act of
remembrance and respect for thedeceased.
(39:53):
A nickel signifies that thevisitor trained with the
deceased at boot camp.
A dime represents a sharedservice experience, meaning the
visitor and the deceased servedin the military together in some
capacity.
And a quarter indicates that thevisitor was present when the
deceased service member waskilled or passed.
SPEAKER_00 (40:17):
There you go, folks.
So if you see coins on thegrave, it's not a tip.
Please don't pick it up.
It's a symbol of honor anddedication to that individual.
SPEAKER_02 (40:26):
The tradition dates back to the Roman Empire where
the coins were given to theferrymen.
SPEAKER_00 (40:30):
Yeah, they were.
also placed over the thedeceased eyes and it was to pay
for the uh carry is it carrycare on care on who was the
boatman that would would uhferry the deceased over to the
underworld and it was to pay theboatman care on so it's been
around for a long time everytime we leave there we didn't
(40:50):
obviously serve my father so weleave a penny um now I hope
that's been enlightening to youon these.
And we just did a small section.
Actually, I thought it would goa lot slower than that, so I cut
some of them out.
There's tons and tons ofsymbolism.
You know, I'll be looking in thefuture for a book from me for
that.
But anyway, yeah, if I ever getthe other one done.
SPEAKER_02 (41:12):
Yeah,
SPEAKER_00 (41:13):
and Richard, I am working on that.
Anyway, let's talk aboutepitaphs, which is kind of the
second half of this.
And for those who don't knowwhat an epitaph is, it's a
saying that's placed on thecemetery grave marker, normally
carved in the stone.
And the epitaph is a briefinscription on the headstone as
a memorial.
Sometimes it commemorates thedead.
(41:35):
It might have been in life,something he said.
And some of them are very, veryamusing.
And I've got several picked out.
My daughter used to say that shewas going to put on the back of
my headstone two things.
I know a guy, and I got a hellof a deal on this.
Because she always thought thosewere two sayings that I used
(41:56):
quite frequently.
Well, you did.
Well, I do a little bit.
So a lot of times there arefavorite sayings.
There might be nicknames.
You know, everyone calls meChief.
I imagine that'll beincorporated into mine.
SPEAKER_02 (42:09):
It'll probably be James Chief Christopher
SPEAKER_00 (42:12):
Lawson.
Yeah, something to that effect.
But my God, as I got into this,it's got fun.
And a good friend of mine namedTom Tuttle years ago gave me
one.
And I thought it was funny.
He was Irish, but he was on theback of the stone.
And it read, Remember, man.
As you go by, as you are now, soonce was I.
(42:32):
As I am now, so shall you be.
Prepare yourself to follow me.
Someone had taken a piece ofpaper and taped it to the
tombstone, and it read, Man, Iam content to follow you.
I only wish I knew which way youwent.
All right, so I'm going to readthis one, and I'll let you read
this one here.
(42:54):
Okay, here's a little differentversion of it.
Remember me as you pass.
As you are now, so once was I.
You just read that.
Yeah, this is a different one,if you don't mind.
Hang on.
As I am now, you soon must be.
Prepare to death and follow me.
My glass is run and yours isrunning.
Mind death for judgment'scoming.
(43:15):
Now, when it says your glass isrunning, you know what they're
referring to, right?
A hourglass.
So the sand's running.
Okay, you take the next one.
SPEAKER_02 (43:26):
This one?
SPEAKER_00 (43:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (43:28):
And that's from
SPEAKER_00 (43:41):
William Shakespeare.
SPEAKER_02 (43:43):
Yep,
SPEAKER_00 (43:45):
cemetery.
I'm going to incorporate some ofthat.
I want to put a curse on therefor anybody that stirs my bones.
Just because I think it's a goodthing
SPEAKER_02 (43:53):
to do.
Toil and trouble.
SPEAKER_00 (43:55):
Yeah, toil and trouble.
Yeah, move my bones and I'llcome for you.
All right.
Here's one that's really good.
This is Frank Sinatra.
The best is yet to come.
Here's from Dorothy Parker.
Excuse my dust.
Oh, Mel Blanc is great.
Of course.
Yeah, he did all the voices forall the Warner Brothers
cartoons.
That's all, folks.
(44:18):
You want to take four?
SPEAKER_02 (44:20):
Here lies the body of Jonathan Blake.
stepped on the gas instead ofthe brake.
SPEAKER_00 (44:26):
And he wrote that himself.
Okay, here's one.
Now, this really struck me.
Wait till you see who it's from.
Tomorrow is the most importantthing in life.
Comes into us at midnight veryclean.
It hopes we've learned somethingfrom yesterday.
That was actually John Wayne.
It just doesn't seem like him.
So...
SPEAKER_02 (44:47):
You'll be next.
SPEAKER_00 (44:48):
Yeah, I think that one.
There's another one I see thatsays, oh, no.
I think, oh, this is too good.
Okay, he never killed a man thatdid not need killing.
Robert Clay Allison, one of thegreatest gunfighters or outlaw
gunfighters there was.
SPEAKER_02 (45:05):
I'll never get out of this world alive.
SPEAKER_00 (45:09):
Hank Williams.
That seems like Hank Williams.
It really does.
Okay, here's another one you maynot know where this comes from.
I know in my heart that man isgood.
That's what is right will alwayseventually triumph.
And there is purpose and worthto each and every life.
Ronald Reagan.
SPEAKER_02 (45:30):
The entertainer.
He did it all.
Sammy Davis Jr.
SPEAKER_00 (45:34):
Gotta admit, seems like Sammy.
She always said her feet waskilling her, but no one believed
her.
Unknown.
SPEAKER_02 (45:42):
I will not be right back after this message.
SPEAKER_00 (45:45):
Yeah, that's a good one.
I will not be back after thismessage.
All right.
Good night, sweet prince.
John Barrymore.
SPEAKER_02 (45:55):
Okay.
I gotta go now.
Dee Dee Ramone.
SPEAKER_00 (45:58):
And you know who that is.
I do not.
He is the drummer.
Oh,
SPEAKER_02 (46:01):
from the Ramones?
SPEAKER_00 (46:03):
Yeah, Ramones.
Yeah.
Yep.
I believe he's a drummer.
Is he a drummer or a guitarplayer?
I
SPEAKER_02 (46:07):
had an inkling, but
SPEAKER_00 (46:08):
I didn't want to.
Yeah, he's from the Ramones.
Be wrong.
Yeah.
Will he be back?
Let's hope not.
Unknown.
This is a great one.
Go ahead.
SPEAKER_02 (46:16):
Letter it.
SPEAKER_00 (46:18):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (46:18):
Leslie Nielsen.
SPEAKER_00 (46:19):
You know...
Leslie Nielsen only made oneserious movie of all things.
It was Red Planet.
And, oh, God, watching it ishard to do.
Now, I love B-rated.
Me and Heather both like B-ratedshows.
But it's hard to watch thisbecause when you watch it, you
keep seeing the naked gun, twoand a half, or whatever, and
it's awful hard when he's doinga straight line.
(46:40):
You just keep wanting to go.
You're waiting for that punchline to kick in.
You know, it just doesn't seemlike him.
But Let It Rip does seem likehim.
True to your own spirit.
Jim Morrison.
Knights in white satin.
SPEAKER_02 (46:54):
They said I made my bed.
Now I'm lying in it.
Let me tell you, it's the pits.
Unknown.
SPEAKER_00 (47:01):
Oh, this is a good one.
I may be gone, but rock and rolllives on.
John Belushi.
I tell you.
A life cut too short.
All right.
You want to take the next?
SPEAKER_02 (47:14):
I told you I was sick.
Spike
SPEAKER_00 (47:16):
Milligan.
I think I've seen that on quitea few of them.
I told you I was sick.
I was hoping for a pyramid.
I like that one.
I may use that one.
SPEAKER_02 (47:26):
I found mine.
SPEAKER_00 (47:27):
Yeah, yeah.
I was hoping for a pyramid.
Unknown.
Go ahead.
SPEAKER_02 (47:31):
I am ready to meet my maker.
Whether my maker is prepared forthe great ordeal of meeting me
is another matter.
Sir Winston Churchill.
SPEAKER_00 (47:39):
I like that one, too.
That just seems like me.
I told you these taxes werekilling me.
Unknown.
Free
SPEAKER_02 (47:49):
at last, free at last.
Thank almighty, I'm free atlast, Dr.
Martin Luther King Jr.
SPEAKER_00 (47:54):
Here's a good one.
Here lies.
This just seems like him.
Here lies Thomas Jefferson,author of the Declaration of
Independence and the StatuesEstablishing Religious
Toleration in the Commonwealthof Virginia.
Thomas Jefferson.
He wrote it himself.
If you know anything about him,yes, you would understand.
If you've never got a chance tostudy him, he wrote his own
(48:15):
Bible.
And he took out the stuff hedidn't like.
It was kind of funny.
You really have to read on him.
He's quite the character.
You want the next one?
Yeah, I got it.
SPEAKER_02 (48:24):
The body of B.
Franklin, printer like the coverof an old book, its contents
torn out and stripped of itslettering and gilding, lies
here.
Food for worms, but the workshall not be wholly lost.
For it will, as he believed,appear once more in a new and
more perfect edition, correctedand amended by the author.
(48:48):
Benjamin Franklin.
SPEAKER_00 (48:49):
Anybody knows old Ben?
He was a brother.
There's a little bit of ritualmixed in there.
Murdered by a traitor and cowardwhose name is not worthy to
appear here.
Jesse James.
SPEAKER_02 (49:01):
Here lies Johnny Yeast.
Pardon me for not writing.
Johnny Yeast.
SPEAKER_00 (49:08):
Let the words of my mouth and the mediation of my
heart be acceptable on the sideof the Lord, my strength and my
redeemer.
Psalms 1914.
Johnny Cash.
SPEAKER_02 (49:18):
Here lies Ezekiel Akel, age 102, the good guy
young.
SPEAKER_00 (49:23):
There you go.
SPEAKER_02 (49:24):
Ezekiel Akel.
SPEAKER_00 (49:26):
Here lies George Johnson, hanged by mistake in
1882.
He was right, we were wrong, butwe strung him up and now he's
gone.
George Roy Johnson.
SPEAKER_02 (49:36):
I'd rather be reading this.
Esther A.
Freer.
SPEAKER_00 (49:41):
Here lies the body of Anna done to death by a
banana.
It wasn't the fruit that laidher low, but the skin of the
thing that made her go.
Anna Hopewell.
And this is from a Scottishgraveyard.
You want me to read it?
I got it.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (49:57):
The children of Israel wanted bread, and the
Lord sent them manna.
Old Clerk Wallace wanted a wife,and the devil sent him anna.
SPEAKER_00 (50:08):
That's just Scottish for you right there.
Yeah.
Here lies a man named Zeke,second fastest draw in Cripple
Creek.
SPEAKER_02 (50:15):
Here lies Lester Moore, four slugs from a.44.
No less, no more.
SPEAKER_00 (50:23):
Tombstone of a gunslinger, Lester Moore, a
Wells Fargo station agent forNarco, Arizona, in the cowboy
days of the 1800s.
He's buried in Boot HillCemetery.
And it says, here lies...
Well, I always say, I want to gothere.
That's why there's two I want tofinish with.
And one of them I couldn't findbeforehand, but we've got two
more.
And one of them, it was sohilarious.
(50:45):
It's a little stone attached toa fence, you know, surrounding a
grave.
So it's an old grave, and itsaid...
Husband, father, grandfather,and it said adulterer.
And it said, yes, John, I knew.
But tonight, folks, as we closethis off, it may be a little bit
of a shorter episode, buthopefully a more informative
(51:07):
episode for you.
I want to leave you with this.
I think this is the best stoneout there.
Here it is.
Here lies an atheist, alldressed up and no place to go.
Good evening, ladies andgentlemen.
It is now time for the GhostStory of the Day with Heather
Lawson.
SPEAKER_02 (51:27):
This is Last Chance to Turn Back from Cursed in New
England, More Stories of DamnedYankees by Joseph A.
Citro.
In the following pages, we willwitness a variety of New England
curses at work.
with all their attendant horrorpathos and occasional humor.
(51:47):
Please keep in mind that thisbook is not intended to be all
inclusive.
The sheer volume of Yankeemaledictions would make that
impossible.
At the very least, you wouldhold in your hands should be a
collection of entertainingstories.
At most, it is evidence thatthere are powers in this world
so subtle and sinister that theycan work inexorably against us
(52:12):
without our even knowing it.
In the interest of journalisticobjectivity, I have taken a
position one way...
You
SPEAKER_00 (52:26):
want to start again from the beginning?
SPEAKER_02 (52:28):
No, I'll just do that last paragraph.
UNKNOWN (52:34):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (52:35):
In the interest of journalistic objectivity, I
haven't taken a position one wayor another.
All I can tell you is that Ihave visited Black Agnes many
times, and I have never chosento sit on her lap.
SPEAKER_00 (52:52):
Thanks for listening to Ghost to Ghost.
Again, I'm your host, ChiefLawson.
You can find Ghost to Ghost onall major formats on the 15th
and 30th of the month atmidnight.
If you'd like to be a guest onthe show, maybe have a question
or subject you'd like to askabout on air, or be used on the
show, please email us atghosttoghost at
spiritindiana.com ghosttoghostat spiritindiana.com I want to
(53:16):
thank my production staff onSpirit, Jennifer Verne, our
research manager, and ourproducer, and Heather Lawson,
our trainer on spirit and ourpodcast director for helping
make these podcasts possible.
My chief of staff, Andrew Books,for his guidance and help on the
scripts and everyone elseinvolved.
Thank you so much.
See you next time.
(53:36):
Until then, stay safe andremember the truth is out there.
Good night.
Ghost to Ghost Podcast and itscontents is the property of
Spirit Paranormal LTD, allrights reserved.
We welcome you to download andplay the podcast and share with
others for personal use.
You may not, except with writtenpermission.
Use or distribute its contentsfor commercial use.
(54:24):
Thank you for listening.
Take care of yourself and theones you love and be safe out
there.
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