Perhaps Yinz May Be Able to Help Solve a Mystery

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
All right, let's start it.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Yeah, we're recording .
Okay, I like it.
These brand new mics.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
I know they sound great.
Brand new mics.
I feel like I want to do likethe sweaty ball.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
I can't even remember what he says.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
I know I should have prepared for that one.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Yeah, I know you hit me with that out of nowhere All
right, let's get ready.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
We're being serious now.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
We are being serious.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Welcome to Gilded Trash Podcast, episode three,
tres leches.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Tres leches.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
Is that a thing I feel like I heard of that?
If you listened to last week'sepisode, then you know we talked
about some comedy.
One of the questions I forgotto ask you, though, is assuming
you get booked on a big show.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Right, maybe one day.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
What's on your rider?

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Well, we should preface that a little bit by
saying too, is that we werewatching an episode of Kill Tony
and they were talking, theywere making fun of Cam
Patterson's rider because it waslike candy and goofy shit
Kool-Aid, that was a big one,but what would be on my rider?
Orange Tic Tacs, three packs,three packs Orange Tic Tacs.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
See, that's something that I wouldn't even have
thought of for myself.
I mean, I'm never going to getbooked on a show because I don't
want to be on a show.
But let's say that I'm I don'tknow a guest on a podcast and I
get a ride.
I don't even know if they havethis.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
Anything you need a ride for.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
No, I wouldn't have thought of Tic Tacs.
I clearly need one now becauseI'm scratchy-throated, but I
don't even know what's on mineIf it's Sunday.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
I need four TVs set up for the football to see the
Steelers game, in case I wouldbe in that.
Oh, diet 50-50.
One jug of Gallagher's diet50-50.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
It has to be Gallagher's, I don't even know.
Yeah, I don't want it.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
If it's not, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
I mean otherwise known as an Arnold Palmer.
I see I can't say it Right, soI call it an Arnie Palmy all the
time, arnie Palmy.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
Arnold Palmer alert.
Arnold Palmer alert.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
But Gallagher's calls it 50-50, which is okay, cool,
and they have a diet version,which is really good.
But I try to stay away fromchemicals as much as humanly
possible.
My rider would be fresh brewedtea, home brewed, since 1959.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
Right here in Johnstown Pennsylvania.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
We're not sponsored by anybody yet.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
No, I support him that much.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
He's practicing, okay , so what are we talking about
this week?
Oh wait, tic Tacs.
That's the only thing on yourrider.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
No that and 50-50.
Tic Tacs Caligars.
Eat your beef.
Grandma Udds barbecue chips.
That's the only thing on yourrider.
No that and 50-50.
Tic Tacs, gallaghers.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
Grandma Utz barbecue chips in a two-ounce bag, and
there is a huge differencebetween Grandma Utz and.
Utz, and if you don't know thatand you accidentally show up
with the wrong bag to a party,oh you pissed no remember I did
that, no, no.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
So here's what happened is they switched it on
you.
All my life I heard about Annieand G cause she moved away.
Mom is the one to blame becauseshe had it wrong fucking.
Lori yeah, she had it wrong.
She uh told me grandma uts, butit was just regular uts or
something.
Apparently you know what I mean.

(03:24):
It was just regular uts orsomething.
Apparently you know what I mean.
It was some kind of mistakelike that.
So those are the things I don'tmake mistakes.
I don't make snack mistakes.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
You're serious about that too.
It was my first time meetingAunt Angie from Chicago and I
brought her the wrong tips.
However, why don't we talkabout this leak?

Speaker 2 (03:48):
The art of true crime .

Speaker 1 (03:52):
The art.
I would like to refer to it asthe phenomenal.
Yeah, the phenomenal Phenomenal.
So you know true crime's athing.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
Let's start off.
Everybody listens to true crime.
Matter of fact, 57% ofAmericans consume true crime.
So two times.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
And the other 43 are children under the age of.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah, I mean you take that into account?
I mean that is a percentage.
I'm just throwing this outthere.
We'll say two thirds of adults,yeah, that's a lot.
I mean I would say that is apercentage.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
I'm just throwing this out there.
We'll say two-thirds of adults.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
Yeah, that's a lot.
I would say that that'sprobably what that number is
close to.
So two times more women thanmen dream about murdering their
husbands.
Or well, I keep saying listen,but it's well, we're talking, I
mean first off.
So did you know there's 24,000true crime podcast.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
I did not know that 24,000.
So I mean that's why I didn'twant to get into the true crime
genre Right Like off the bat.
It's saturated, it's saturated,and we'd be really good at it
though.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
Yeah, I think we would.
And I think, yeah, I mean, andwe have a passion for it, like a
lot of them don't.
But so you have 24,000 truecrime podcasts.
Then you have every streamingservice has their own specials
that they do on it, right.
You have news magazines likeDateline 2020 that do nothing
but profile true crime.

(05:22):
Right, you have the ID channel.
You have Oxygen.
I mean there are 24-hournetworks that are dedicated to
nothing but truth.
If you want to consume truecrime, it's literally probably
the most popular genre of damnnear anything.
Most popular genre of damn nearanything.

(05:46):
For example, one of the mostpopular podcasts on Apple and
Spotify a quarter of them aretrue crime podcasts.
Wow, so I mean, that gives youwhen you cause, when you think
about all the different subjectsthat are.
I mean, my God, there'spodcasts about everything.
So the thing that a quarter ofthe most popular ones are true
crime that tells you how big thegenre is.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
Right.
No, I love that you brought upthe ID channel though, because
it's such a dichotomy and it's alittle bit embarrassing.
But my favorite time of yearwhen the kids were still home
Was cooking and baking forThanksgiving and Christmas.
Listening to the ID channelwhile I was cooking and baking

(06:29):
in the kitchen, I loved it, like, but it's a weird thing because
, like, fair point.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
Like you said, what we we had.
True crime is the backgroundnoise of our life our life.
Yes, because whenever we wantsome noise in the background.
We're cooking, like you said,or, yeah, cleaning, or what it
could be anything and you justwant something to win for
background driving, which we'llget to.
Yeah, um, we true, true drunk.

(06:57):
Yeah yeah, we consume as muchtrue crime as we do comedy, and
that's a lot.

Speaker 1 (07:02):
Yeah, I mean it's probably 50, 50 in our lives.
One or two game shows sprinkledin and that's about all we got.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
So here's a little trivia question for you when do
you think what was the mostpopular?
So they asked during the surveythey did a really good study,
like um, it wasn't a government,but it was like a few
researchers.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (07:26):
It was like a legitimate company that studies
stuff.
Okay, it wasn't like I'm notsaying, it wasn't just like
Bob's true crime thing on theinternet.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
What's the one you always tell me about?
508 or something?

Speaker 2 (07:40):
538.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
538.
That's serious.
I'm serious about my true crimestats that would be good, I
would love to see the numbers sothey asked them they asked them
.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
They said where do you consume the majority of your
true crime?
And they gave them every option.
And what do you consume themajority of your true crime?
And they gave them every option.
And what do you think?
The number one answer was, as amatter of fact, 62% of the
people that listen to true crime.
This is their number one source.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
Where do they get it from?

Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, it can be a streaming service.
It could be a podcast.
Yeah, it can be a streamingservice, it could be a podcast.
It could be.
Where do they consume themajority of their true crime
stuff, whether it be shows,podcasts, what platform?
Given that Apple's the biggeststreaming platform, I'm going to
have to say Apple.
It's actually Netflix, Whoaokay.

(08:41):
So 62% of the people in thesurvey said that that was the
number one source of where theywatch or consume the most true
crime.
Right, right After that wasYouTube.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
Right, which makes sense.
What was that one, the Netflixtrue crime thing that blew up?
It was like something, a murder.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
The making a murder.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
Making a murder.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah, that was I.
I mean it caused a lot of and,honestly, like I don't want to
speak on it, because we didn'tfollow up watching not at all.
I wasn't following seasons, solike I have no idea where the
case is.
What's even really going on?

Speaker 1 (09:15):
and I don't know if it was because I'm a little bit
probably behind in technology,not like I mean from like what I
catch on to like what thetrends are right, but when that
was out I feel like it wasprobably around.
It was like a amalgamation of,like social media blowing up and

(09:38):
Netflix blowing up, so peoplehad the ability to kind of chat
in real time about what theywere seeing on that.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
Right, it's one of those things that was like one
of the first big ones on Netflix.
But I'm just thinking like Idon't know what was going on at
that time, Like you were justsaying.
But, like you know, Tiger Kingwas so big because it hit like
right at the beginning.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
Right.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
So I was wondering if maybe there was some kind of
event tied in there that mayhave even Right who's did that
even more than it already was.
Right Right, here's a fun, funone for you.
What three cities had moreGoogle searches for true crime
than the rest?
What do you think those topthree cities were?

(10:22):
And I have no idea what thecorrelation was, and even the
study questioned it as far aslike.
Why is it these three citieswere?
And I have no idea what thecorrelation was, and even the
study questioned it as far aslike.
Why is it these three cities?
Because there was no relationbetween that and the number of
unsolved crimes.
They look for that.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
So I kind of feel like Orlando's on the list.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
They are not.
I'll tell you what the topthree were.
Are you ready for this?
Atlanta, okay.
Cleveland, for this AtlantaOkay, cleveland Okay.
And Minneapolis they were thetop three states that had the
most true crime related Googlesearches, that's crazy.
Yeah, very.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
And, like I said, they questioned why those three
you know were above and above myyou know I'm a stats person, so
like my brain's going to likeall the like, how my brain's
already trying to put togetherthe recipe of how that is or why
that is.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
Right, you can make a lot of assumptions.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
One of the assumptions that I'm going to
make for Atlanta is that there'sa lot of production companies
down there, so there's a goodchance that there's a lot of
people that are doing podcastsout of Atlanta that are doing
Does it correlate to the amountof true crime podcasts that
exist?
Right, yeah, I'm not sure Inwhat'd you say.
The other two were Cleveland,cleveland and Minneapolis, and

(11:37):
Minneapolis, I think it'sbecause it's cold up there and
they got shit all to do in thewinter.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yeah, that's exactly.
They got shit all to do, folks,shit all to do, yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
So well, so real quickly, I want to just run down
through a little bit of atimeline um, yeah, that's what I
was going to say.

Speaker 2 (11:57):
What was your introduction to true crime?

Speaker 1 (11:59):
so I will just overall in history, where what
I'm getting at like myintroduction to true crime it
was fucking law and order.
I mean, that's not even truecrime, like I don't even know
when, because when I was youngerI was more into music and I was
really into like anarchy.

(12:21):
I was, I was into it, man, yougot a shirt with an A.
No, but I wrote it on all mybook covers.
Oh yeah, you were cool.
Yeah, yeah you little anarchist.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
I thought it was something evil.
Anarchy yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
Because it was anarchist.
Right, which looks an awful lotlike Christ and Satanist.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
And Satanist.
Yeah, it looks like Christ andSatanist and since I grew up in
a religious household, I waslike I don't know what this is
and he is just bad.
I don't know what this is, butI don't want a part of it.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
It's a baddest.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
It's got something to do with the devil.

Speaker 1 (13:08):
No devil.
No, I was.
I really thought I was.
I thought I was going to be ananarchist, but um, no, like so
when I was younger there.
So first of all, my parentsdidn't feel that it was
appropriate to talk about thosetype of things in front of
children like they didn't wantyou to be exposed to like death
and murder.
Exactly matter of fact, um thefirst funeral I went to I was
probably like 17, 18.

(13:28):
I went to no like relativesfunerals when I was younger
Probably not even mygrandparents and they died when
I was like really young, likefive and six, maybe my dad's
people Crime wasn't even on mymind Like it wasn't.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
You didn't have crime on my mind.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
I was kind of really naive, to be honest with you.

Speaker 2 (13:49):
I thought maybe there was a girl that got kidnapped
at your high school.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
I was thinking about gettingout of Johnstown when I was in
high school.
Well, no the reason.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
I brought that up is because as you know my
introduction to it was reallythe Debbie Klein case, right,
right so from Waynesboro,pennsylvania, because my grandma
, both my grandmas, my mom, ithappened in what the late 70s?

Speaker 1 (14:20):
Right, like your mom would have been like young and
she was my mom.
Yeah, my mom was a teenager andthis girl have been like and
she was my mom.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah, my mom was a teenager and this girl was I
believe she was still a teenagershe was, I think she was like
19 or so.
She was working, she was out ofschool she was a nurse right?

Speaker 1 (14:32):
well, I think she was working like a cna or something
.

Speaker 2 (14:36):
Yeah, I'm with you like a orderly, you know type of
deal candy striper.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
No, so let's see.
Candy striper, that was a realthing.
Back in what is candy striping.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
Does it involve fruit striping?
Fruit stripe gum?
Because if it does, I do.
They just walk around.
That's what they're in chargeof.
Like that's some fruit stripehere.
It'll break your day for 4.2seconds I don't know.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
I don't know where the, the fruit, the.
I don't know why it was calledthat and it's kind of weird so I
don't like to talk about it.
Candy striper.

Speaker 2 (15:11):
Yeah, but I don't know.
So I don't know if she was acandy striper, what she did with
that.
She worked at the hospital andwhere she got kidnapped because
they found her car or whatever,was close to where my mom's
house was.
It was like less than a mile,maybe right around a mile from
there.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
Less than I think?
Yeah, I think less than.
And so, like it was a big deallike for her growing up, so she
well then they wrote a bookabout it and the book was called
Missing Person, and everybodyin Waynesboro had ten copies of
this book Right no-transcriptbecause I think when we think of

(16:16):
true crime, we jump straight tolike maybe I don't even know
like the first show or kind ofthe ID channel inception was
like the first real other thanDateline in 2020 and those shows
which came on once a week orwhatever.
Oh, I mean, we pack all theeighties in there.

(16:36):
Most of us think of, like youknow, unsolved mysteries,
america's most wanted, but thisshit actually started in like
the 17, 1800s.
So think so to all myBridgerton fans.
Think about lady whistle down.
Right, she's talking aboutthings you know, drama in the

(16:57):
elite class.
Well, in order to entertainpeople with money back in the
day, they would create theselittle pamphlets about true
crime and sell them on thelittle street corners.
Oh, that's fun.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
Yeah yeah, here's a hello good sir.
Did you hear about Betsy?
Someone's murdering virginsdown at the corner store?

Speaker 1 (17:19):
Ooh, I wonder how the Jack the Ripper pamphlet read.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
Right Watch out hookers.

Speaker 1 (17:27):
Good day ladies, there's the Ripper pamphlet read
Right, watch out hookers.
Good day, ladies.
There's a Ripper on the loose.
There's a Ripper on the loose.
So, um, so that was so, thatwas.
The pamphlets were only weregeared towards the people with
money, right?
So, of course, for every, youknow, there's always the flip
side of the coin.
So, for the poor people, forthe poor people, there were

(17:49):
ballads created, and they wereballads.
Yeah, narco corrido, it is inorder to understand the crime
from the criminal's perspective,right, right.
So what do you hear all thetime?
What was their motive?
So they created these balladsto understand the criminal's

(18:11):
motive.
I want to hear some of these.
I know Like I want to go backand dig now.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
Betsy was a stupid bitch with a shudder in the head
.
She nagged me every morningfrom the time I got out of bed.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
That's exactly it.

Speaker 2 (18:27):
That's exactly it, and they'd be like fun, like
that, though They'd be like hey,oh, and there's dancing kids in
the street.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
Wait, didn't we find that there was a serial killer
who recorded one of those vinylsone time about shooting his
wife?

Speaker 2 (18:42):
I mean we had.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
I do vaguely kind of remember something like that,
but I don't, yeah, but so theywould take the lyrics from the
ballads and print them up andhang them around town so that
everybody could learn the songsof the oh whoa the criminal.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
Oh, whoa the criminal and my.
I shot my wife in the eye.
I feel like a lot of them wouldbe about murdering their wife
back then Because those guyswere really abusive.
They were very abusive backthen.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
But then, is it even a crime?
They beat their womenincessantly.
If it's swept under the rug, isit even a crime?
Well, I mean, so then, like yougot, that's like the 1700s.
In 1807, henry Tufts was one ofthe first people to write an
extensive biography about beinga criminal.

(19:32):
He was in Henry Tufts.
Yeah, he was an American.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
Did he form Tufts University?

Speaker 1 (19:38):
I think he formed Tufts Law, tufts Law, tufts Law,
tough love, tough love.
So I have no idea who henrytufts is anyway, and I really
don't care, because then youjump the whole way fast forward
to 1965, when little trumancapote, when he um wrote in cold
blood.

Speaker 2 (19:58):
I have a question about truman capote is that who
the truman show?

Speaker 1 (20:04):
is based on no.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
I've always thought that, though I think it's a
secret message.
I don't know what the TrumanCapote story is, but I think it
has something to do with theTruman.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
Show no, but Capote is like.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
What was the name of that?

Speaker 1 (20:21):
In Cold Blood.
It was about that there's twoguys that like went and murdered
that whole family in themidwest.
I mean, I've seen the movie,I've read the book and I still
don't know, because all mycrimes just kind of run together
.
It's like a melting pot ofcrimes in this brain.
But um, he's often the one whothey give credit to for the

(20:44):
modern fascination with truecrime because he wrote that book
.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
You know something you just said that really made
me think about something, andthat's so.
You just said about all thecrimes running together.
What if you're a homicidedetective?
You're like, oh shit, thatwasn't this case.

Speaker 1 (21:01):
Oh my.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
God, you know what I mean.
Like you thought you're like oh, that wasn't I'm so sure you
know.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
like you thought so you're like oh, that wasn't.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
I'm so sure that happens too, like that's your
whole life right like how do younot?

Speaker 1 (21:12):
uh, what do I want to say?

Speaker 2 (21:16):
how do they not bleed together?

Speaker 1 (21:18):
right like anything, like anything that you do
repetitively you're interviewinga witness and you like ask a
question, but it's meant for theother case, so you're not even
getting anywhere, like that hasto happen, especially when
you're fucking tired.
So and then, well, in betweenthe 1800s and old Henry tough or
Harry tough or whatever hisname is, and 65 with Truman

(21:41):
Capote, there was magazines werepopular, right, and they were
called True Detective magazines,which I think is awesome
because I love when things comefull circle and you don't
realize it till later, right.
So the show True Detective,which we love, like now, I feel
like they called it that.
I could be wrong, I'm making agrand assumption here, but I

(22:01):
feel like they called it thatbecause of the old True
Detective magazines.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
I don't know.
Yeah, I mean that would makesense for that Right.
I started watching that again.
It's really good.
True Detective Season 1 is oneof the greatest pieces of
television that I've everwitnessed.
Matthew McConaughey and WoodyHarrelson are riveting.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
If you haven't seen it already, if you've never seen
it it is.
It's really good.
It's really freaky and creepyand good it's.
Yeah, it's good, but I think Ilike the latest version with
Jodie Foster the best.
That was probably my favoritest.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
Interesting.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
I think it was.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yeah, the other two seasons aren't even in
contention, though.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
No, I don't even remember who was in it, to be
honest with you.
Who was in the second one?
Vince Vaughn.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
Colin Farrell.
Oh yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
Speaking of Vince Vaughn, that show we're watching
right now is really effing.
Good on it, bad monkey.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
That's good yeah that's our tv recommendations
for the week but anywho.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
So back to what we were talking about.
So then you fast forward to therise of television we mentioned
earlier.
You've got your unsolvedmysteries, america's most wanted
, and all that, and then, all ofa sudden, you've got streaming,
and then podcasts come along.
And then here we are, in thiscrazy, crazy world.

(23:36):
I mean, you can literally getyour crime any way anywhere.
So fast forward to a podcast,right, and I think I I heard
about podcasts.
I thought it sounded like acool concept, but I thought it
was a bunch of nerds justsitting around talking about
tech shit.
Regardless of all that, one ofmy girls at work thank you,

(23:59):
carrie um recommended a coupleof podcasts.
So we started out listening toSerial.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, which that's the first time we took on a case
.
That's the first time, that wasour first.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
We cut our first case and I think, if you're like
over the age of, let me do it.
Let me think about this for asecond If you're over the age of
27-ish, maybe you probably cutyour true crime teeth on Serial

(24:35):
Podcast.
Yeah, I mean, it was the firstbig it like blew up.
Yeah, it blew up.

Speaker 2 (24:41):
Probably to this day, the most of all time, the
biggest true crime podcast ofall time.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
Well, and at the time we were still working in
Frederick, maryland, and sowe're just like weird groupies
about states and cities andstuff.
So the fact that Baltimore isso close to Frederick, and.
It was accessible.
That's what I want to say.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
Well, I think that also kind of started our.
It wasn't the first murdertourism thing, but the roots
were there.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
Yeah, the roots were there because we were like oh,
we can go check this out.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
So what I meant there when I'm talking about murder
tourism is we like to when wevisit a place we like to murder
somebody in the state.
We like to find a case thatwe're interested in took place

(25:42):
where we're going Right and Ithink think the first, the first
case that we really worked,though.
The first case we really workedcounter clock seasons one and
two in the outer banks becausewe vacationed there.
So we we drove all the spotsyes, we were able to map it out

(26:04):
there.
Plus, there's not a lot ofroads in the outer banks, right
highway and then there's lots oflittle streets and stuff.
But like it's very navigablenavigable, yeah, in terms of
like you're not just in a townthat could go anywhere.
It's a pretty.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
The boundaries are defined right, and so the
landmarks are really easy tofind.
That's exactly right.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
They're like it's right across from Ted's Diner.
All you gotta do is find it andyou look, there's the apartment
building, matter of fact.
So much so that in that case wediscovered some things that
when they say things in podcasts, you don't always understand it
fully, like when they say it'sclose to the police station.

(26:50):
Right, that girl's house wasclose to the police station.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
When they say that they didn't say.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
It's like almost touching it, right?
You know, like the feelings arealmost touching each other,
right Like Right.
No, you're right, I love it.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
You don't get that unless you go each other, right,
right, no, you're right.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
I love it.
You don't get that unless yougo see it.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
Right Because, especially if you've never been
there.
Right Because perspective iseverything.
So if you don't have theperspective of the way that the
town's laid out, Now, we hadbeen to the Outer Banks before,
so we kind of knew how it waslaid out.
But still in the moment you'rejust glossing over the
information to get a slightvisual to get you through the
story.
But when you deep dive it andyou're looking at a map and

(27:31):
you're like, oh, that's righthere.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
And you're like.
It took her 19 minutes to getfrom here to here to this far
Like what happened.
Yeah, you know it gives youthat kind of insight that you
can't necessarily discern fromjust listening to somebody tell
a story.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
So if you ever get a chance to do some murder,
tourism.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
But now we do that everywhere.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yeah, we do it everywhere.
We're going to Pittsburgh.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
We're like, oh, what's our murder today?

Speaker 1 (27:55):
Yeah, we want to listen.
We find a podcast, we see if wecan scope a spot, or whatever
the case may be, like go out,you know.

Speaker 2 (28:04):
I really like it when there's food, when people, when
there's a food in the story.
We worked at a diner.
We got to go there.
They were at a bar.

Speaker 1 (28:13):
Right, speaking of working at a diner.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
You get to go through and see that stuff.

Speaker 1 (28:19):
Yeah, remember Denise Johnson worked at a diner.
No, stacey Stanton worked in adiner.
No, stacey Stanton worked in adiner.
And what did that diner turninto?

Speaker 2 (28:29):
Well, it turned into like an event space and my
brother had his weddingreception there, which we didn't
know until after the fact.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
When we were researching, we're like wait a
second this is where that wasRight, like we were in this
building.
Yeah, for a fully differentreason, we discovered that that
was really that was part of ourmurder tourism, because we were
down there.
You know, yeah, that's how wefound that that's when we coined
the frame murder tourism,because we found somebody that

(28:59):
sounds so, but it is what it is.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
Lots of people love true crime.
Lots of people love to see.
There's a reason that theLizzie Borden house is like a
Absolutely, absolutely.
People want to see where stuffhappens.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
For all different kinds of reasons.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
We're not going there to be like Ooh, somebody got
murdered here.

Speaker 1 (29:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
Somebody got murdered here, here, yeah, somebody got
murdered here.
But we go because we want to,you know, attach ourselves to
the story in some way.

Speaker 1 (29:32):
Oh, but we totally skipped from Serial to Counter
Clock and forgot what was in themiddle Up and Vanish.
So Serial was the first casecounter clock and forgot what
was in the middle Up andVanished.
So Serial was the first casethat we sunk our teeth into.
But Up and Vanished was thefirst one that I think we were

(29:52):
like really like this could besomething.
And because in Serial theyalready had their guy in jail
who they thought there was Right.

Speaker 2 (30:03):
That was about disproving something that they
thought Exactly.

Speaker 1 (30:05):
Right, that was about disproving something that they
thought Exactly, exactly, that'sa different.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
That's a different than a whodunit.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
Right.

Speaker 2 (30:10):
Absolutely.
At that point, well, it isstill a whodunit.
But the main focus of that wasjust disproving the state's
theory.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
Right.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
Which is different.

Speaker 1 (30:20):
Right, and so that's another crazy thing because,
again, everybody that we'vetalked to about doing a podcast,
everybody that you know we'veresearched on the internet,
they're all like find your niche, however you want to say it.
Niche, in that case, like youcould literally just do

(30:40):
specifically one specific genre,and I'm going to tell you which
one I would do later.
Um, but what I the reason why Iwant to bring up of them
vanished.
Everybody knows what I mean.
Everybody who listens to truecrime knows up and vanished,
cause it's one of the top ones.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
Right.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
And, and part of that is because of how well produced
it is.

Speaker 2 (31:02):
Obviously Right and I think that's a good time to
maybe say here like we need aproducer.
No, no, half the battle with agood true crime podcast.
There's a million stories,there's a million ways to tell
them, but a lot of, so much ofit comes down to just the

(31:25):
production value, the narrator'svoice.
The narrator's voice and thestory cohesion, like how well
they've mapped it out.
And that comes down toproduction.
So it's production and podcasthost voice.
Because if you've got a crappyvoice that you don't want to
listen to, you tune in andyou're like I am not listening

(31:46):
to this guy for six episodes andyou know me, I'm impartial too.

Speaker 1 (31:55):
What do I do?
I like women better, so it'sweird, because you are a total
sexist when it comes to musicand comedy.
You and podcasting andpodcasting, but but in a
different direction.
Yeah, so for music and comedyyou prefer men.
You think your favorites aremen.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
Right, right.
By far Not that I dislike womenyou don't dislike.
I just tend to not like as highof ratio Exactly as I do men.
Like as high of ratio of themas I do men.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
However, when it comes to listening to a podcast,
you love the female voice more.

Speaker 2 (32:34):
Correct.
Shout out Delia.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
DeAmber, exactly, yeah, she's my favorite voice.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
Yeah, definitely, delia is my favorite podcast
voice yeah, just the way shetalks all that Well, counter
Clock this is also a good timefor this Counter Clock is.
Seasons one and two areprobably my favorite podcast of
all time.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
Like a true crime podcast.
Agree my favorite story, myfavorite voice, my favorite,
because the way she puts thestories together is really good
too, and those stories are sogood.
It's like one cliffhanger, onecliffhanger, one cliffhanger.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
Although Doug Wag Jr was a pretty good story.

Speaker 2 (33:15):
Doug Wag Jr was pretty good, that's the latest
season.
Pretty pretty pretty good, butit did get for me.
It got a little bit lost in themiddle.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:26):
But yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:28):
But just on the true crime podcast front.
All up, though, and the reasonwhy I bought a brought up uh,
pain, lindsey, and yeah and upand vanished is because there's
a lot of work that goes into itand there's a lot of um, if
you're like me, who's like I?
I can talk to people, but, likereaching out to someone to get

(33:52):
them to talk to me ispainstaking.

Speaker 2 (33:54):
I've I've reached.
People put boots on the groundand they knock on doors, they
make phone calls, all of it, andit's a lot of just it.

Speaker 1 (34:03):
Like you said, it's a lot and you like become a
counselor for people Like you'retaking on everybody's energy,
which I'm not.
I have to learn how to protectmy own energy before I take on
anybody else's, and I want to.
I want to take on a case, andwe'll get to that too.
However, the reason why I'mtalking about it is because Up
and Vanished, dropped on August7th of 2016.

(34:28):
Where were you?
And February 23rd of 2017, theyhad a person of interest,
finally, and Tara had beenmissing for years.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
Right, well, yeah, I mean, that's how many.
We don't have numbers, but howmany?
Well, I do have numbers on onething how many crimes have been
solved because of podcasts?
Because it just bringsattention to it.
Like I said, they don't solveit, but the more people that are
talking about it, the morepeople that are you know, the
more that you might reachsomebody that does have that one

(35:05):
piece of information.

Speaker 1 (35:06):
Right.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
That they finally come forward with, or whatever
that blows it all wide openright and so the show unsolved
mysteries turns out a lot ofthose are solved.
Now I love it because so 260 itwas the number that they gave
that they solved over the years.
Nice, so I that doesn't soundlike a huge, huge number, but

(35:31):
that's 260.
Now they're not necessarilynumbers.

Speaker 1 (35:33):
That's 260 families who know what happened, or
whatever.

Speaker 2 (35:37):
Right, that's exactly .

Speaker 1 (35:38):
For whatever reason.

Speaker 2 (35:39):
That's the bottom line.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:40):
That, to me, is amazing, that is amazing.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
If they had won, that would be worth it.
Yeah, absolutely, because it'sinteresting as shit, right.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
How else would?

Speaker 1 (35:49):
I have done.
Richard Church was after me.
I mean, richard Church was.
It's funny, because we actuallynever released that episode.
We that wasn't an actualepisode.
We talked about books under thebed, which we'll talk about
next episode.
In spooky, that was yeah.
We talked about Debbie Klein.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
I think maybe we have a release.
We'll release a little likeouttakes episode of that.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
In addition to this, where we talk, where I talk
about those things, yeah, forsure, to provide context.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
Yeah, yeah, so, but, and also in the Denise Johnson
case, there's a new person ininterest after all these years.

Speaker 2 (36:27):
Yeah, so, and even after many seasons of Counter
Clock, we're probably thatprobably came out.
I'm going to say 2017-ish, I'mgoing to say 2019.
So it's five.
Let's just say five years ago,five, six years ago it was
released.
It took that, this justhappened, that they have a new
suspect this summer, like youknow, just a few months ago,

(36:51):
right?
So, like, even it took thatlong for the podcast to work,
it's now.
I'm not saying that had to dowith it, but it did have a lot
to do with it because she's beendrumming up.
That's the thing you start.
A lot of these cases go cold.
Nobody talks about them againbecause nobody's asking about
them, right, nobody's thinkingabout them.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
Right, and that's the thing is like, and yeah, so I
mean that's actually a reallygood time to bring up what some
of the cases that I would liketo do, right, yeah, if I had to
pick a niche would be wherethere's clearly some type of

(37:32):
corruption within the policeforce.
That's my passion.
I want to take themotherfuckers down.
I want to take them down.
But I found, like I did findrecently.
I went down a rabbit hole ofthis guy who was a cop in like

(37:53):
Morgantown, west Virginia, andone of his fiancés was allegedly
committed suicide and then cometo find out that he was like,
like now he's in jail forstalking, but that whole police
force had a bunch of crazy shit.
And the whole reason why I evensaw it is because the current

(38:14):
sheriff tried to break out.
No, he did bust out.
Remember, he busted out thatlady's window in the van.
He only got his positionbecause he was replacing the guy
that went to jail for stalking,who had, like, been let go from
other police stations for beingstalkerific or whatever he was

(38:35):
doing, and the new guy also hadissues with.
So there's this whole thingwhere, if you do something,
that's, let's say, gray area orand you're crossing the line,
you get to retire silently andyou get to go to another police

(38:57):
force and work, and it's.
I hate it, I hate it, I hate it.
So anyways.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
But how many?
I think that's a good time totalk about how many times that's
going to be a clip.
I think it's a good time totalk about how many times that's
going to be a clip.
I think it's a good time totalk about.
That's a good time.
That's a good time to talkabout.
That's a good time to talkabout it.

Speaker 1 (39:17):
Oh my god, but he's practicing for his show later
tonight.
Open mic.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
I don't do that on stage.
I don't think I should.
Police corruption how manytimes do we see maybe not police
corruption, but we see policenegligence?
I mean, that's Dateline's wholegig.
They got 34 seasons of it.
The police messed up the crime,Right Messed up the

(39:45):
investigation.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
The investigation right.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
Through either focusing on the wrong person and
too much time went by, theydidn't get the evidence they
should have collected ordeliberate cover-up, because
sometimes it's deliberatecover-up just in the sense of
they fucked up at first and thenthey do, just don't want to
cover up that they didn't do agood investigation right so it
gets all out of line.
Um they get people to falseconfess listen.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
This is why I had to stop watching some of this shit,
because my stomach just turnswhen I see it like it just turns
.

Speaker 2 (40:23):
It makes me so angry like that one we watched, and
the prosecutors too, becausethey get that's a lot of the
twos.
These prosecutors have so muchpower in these towns that
they're able to just keeppushing.
Like what was that one we were?
There was one that we werewatching where they came up with
all the evidence in the worldthat this guy, barbie, oh, bambi
, bennett, oh, hey, girl, I hopeyou're doing good with your

(40:55):
podcast.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
um, bandit, yeah, I can't say it.
Bambi bennett sherman, yeah.
So they tried to pin the murderof her mom and stepdad on her
and her fiance or boyfriend atthe time and that little,

(41:18):
fucking, smarmy little assholefrom Conway, south Carolina I
can't think of his name, he's afucking DA or whatever he, after
they had evidence and aconfession from the person who
actually did it, he said well, Istill think they was connected
to it somehow.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
Right, I think they were connected, I think they set
it up with him to do it.
We saw that in another case too, where a girl was kidnapped or
something and they proved thatthis guy didn't do it.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
But they were like, well, where like a girl was
kidnapped or something and theyproved that this guy didn't do
it, but they were like, well, hemust have let him in.
They doubled down on that shit.
When they're wrong, doubleddown on it.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
Oh, it makes me angry , Just be like listen.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
We got it wrong, we got it wrong.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
I don't know why that's so hard for them to say
in a lot of these cases.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
I know.

Speaker 2 (42:03):
Just be like we fucked.
People fuck up at their job allthe time.
I the most prestigiousprofession Doctors.
Sometimes things go wrong andthey have to say, listen, I
messed up or whatever.
Yeah, Police should be held tothe same standard of admitting
when they're wrong andrepercussions for when they do

(42:24):
things that are egregiously outof Right.
The normal protocol.

Speaker 1 (42:27):
People make mistakes.
But I admitted it, and I always.
But I'm I'm big on admittingyour mistakes.
I like to proactively admit mymistakes so that nobody can come
after me afterwards and saycatch me in a, in some shit like
that.
I love to admit my mistakes,but cops, they will fucking
double down, triple down,quadruple down, they'll plant

(42:48):
evidence to double down.
Because down, quadruple down,they'll plant evidence to double
down.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
Because, oh, in the case that you were just yeah, so
Bambi no but before that youbrought it up because you were
talking about the policecorruption.

Speaker 1 (42:59):
Oh, the police corruption in the case of that
video that I saw on TikTok butthen also in.
So we don't know if it's policecorruption yet.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
Right, we're using police corruption loosely.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
We just mean police corruption, but the good old boy
system which I talk about allthe time and hate.
So one of the cases whichanybody who is on Facebook or
TikTok or whatever at all rightnow will be familiar with
Justice for Micah, which I haveto say very slowly like that,

(43:40):
because otherwise it sounds likea construction company Justice
for Micah.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
Justice for Micah.
Let us handle all your homeremodeling needs.
Yeah, justice for Micah yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
So it's not a construction company.
It's for Micah Miller, whoallegedly offed herself at the
river down in South Carolina,somewhere between Myrtle Beach
and Little River.
Yeah, it was a town on theSaucas.
Yeah, so Cassidy, somewherebetween.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
Myrtle Beach and.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
Little River yeah, so so.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
Cassidy.

Speaker 1 (44:10):
But again.
So in this instance it's amegachurch involved in the
alleged corruption, but there'sbeen enough people down there
protesting that you know.

(44:31):
If it looks like a duck andwalks like a duck and gets on
social media and acts like acook, it's probably a JP Miller.
Oh, just kidding, I don't knowanything about the case.
I don't know.
I don't know the recipe.
And the other one, which iskind of critical to like this,
has so many ties.
I love when it has juicy, juicyties is um.
So there was a case thathappened in January of 2011.

(44:55):
A young teacher was foundstabbed to death in her
apartment in Philadelphia.
Her name is Ellen Greenberg andher fiance at the time, sam
Goldberg.
Um, so you're going to noticethe trend here that I'm not
going to call out, but I'm justsaying when the facts speak for

(45:19):
themselves my heart breaks forEllen Greenberg's parents by the
way.

Speaker 2 (45:26):
I mean it's one of the weirdest suicides and I say
suicides in quotation marks forthose that aren't watching.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
Right.
Because it's like shmoo-a-shide, if you're on one of those
fucking triggers, it is bizarreLike I just don't.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
First off, how do you stab yourself 27 times?

Speaker 1 (45:44):
Not only how do you stab yourself 27 times, but how
do you stab yourself 27 times.
But how do you stab yourself inthe neck, sever your spinal
cord and then proceed to stabyourself.

Speaker 2 (45:55):
Proceed to continue to stab yourself.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
I'm not buying it, you're the beast.

Speaker 2 (45:59):
You're like Michael Myers in Halloween or something
if you're doing that I'm notbuying it.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
So it was ruled a suicide by the medical examiner
and the police and so obviouslyonce that happened, there was,
they never considered it a crimescene, never, not once.
Which pisses me off, becausenothing Now you lost your

(46:23):
evidence.
It's all gone.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
That's not necessarily police corruption,
that's police negligence.

Speaker 1 (46:30):
And now Sam Goldberg is living as a producer in New
York, and I'm not saying he didit.

Speaker 2 (46:35):
Right, it could be any number of things.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
I'm not saying he did it, but if it walks like a duck
and talks like a duck, but hereis why this one is jumping off
the page to me.
Well, so, first of all, thankGod or Yahweh, I guess in this
case, her parents were able toget the Pennsylvania Supreme

(46:57):
Court to.
They're going to take a look atit to switch it from murder or
suicide to murder, which theyshould fucking do.
But I don't know what they'regoing to do, because this case
sat on Josh Shapiro's desk forfour years, when he was the
attorney general forPennsylvania, and so then I'm

(47:21):
not sure who uncovered it.
Kudos to you, podcaster.
So whenever Kamala Harris wasconsidering Shapiro to be her
running mate, he recused himselffrom this case.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
And it was one of the things that they, because of
his connection to this case,this was probably one of the
things that they just were likeeh, I think we're going to go
with this white guy.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
Yeah, which I'm kind of frustrated because I voted
for him.
And now I don't trust him onebit because even if he does not
know Sam Goldberg's family, evenif he doesn't know, what reason
would he have to let that layon his desk for four years and
not touch it, pass it off, giveit to anybody and maybe he has a
reason.
Maybe he has a reason.
But I thought you were tellingme to tone down my anger.

(48:09):
Josh, fucking Shapiro, I'm somad.
I'm so mad.
Like, why do you hold onto acase for four years?
Like what good does that doanybody?
How much like what else isgoing on in Philadelphia other
than petty crime that youcouldn't just look at this?
I don't know.

(48:30):
I don't follow Philadelphia.
We've been to Philly severaltimes and I actually like it.
It's pretty cool there.
Great food, great food.
So I do have a little list ofcases that I would like to
potentially look into at somepoint, but before we do that,
let's go down the path rightquickly, of what we hate about

(48:53):
true crime shows.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
I'm glad you brought this up, because I forgot all
about this.
First off, I'm going to put itout here.
We know and I'm talking toevery true crime show, movie,
documentary, podcast, web series, anything.
Stop telling me what luminol isand what it does.

(49:17):
I know how it works they sprayit on the thing shows you bodily
fluids.
We all know how it works.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
We know that bleach could be a false positive.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
Every single piece of true crime produced has a thing
where they tell you whatluminol is.
They over-explain themselvesfor filler of their time.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
Yes, that's exactly it.
We get it.
We get that.
You have to have 26 minutes ofcontent in a 30 minute show,
Right?
Tell me something else Useless.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
Tell me that he went tell me that the victim like
going to the store and buyinglemons.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
I'd rather hear that than learn how.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
Cause baby wants a 12 lemon centerpiece.
I don't know what it is, but Iwant to know, so I don't give a
fuck what Lumen, always first ofall.
I want to know, so I don't givea fuck what Luminol is, first
of all because studies haveshown that it's not always
accurate, right?
So yeah, remember, I just gotdone saying bleach can be a
false positive.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
I thought that it could throw the results.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
Okay, so then that makes it not always accurate.
If the results can be thrown,I'm just saying stop using
filler.
Or if you're going to usefiller, give us something sexy
that we can bite our teeth into,or something that we can think
about.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
We know.
We've all seen every law andorder.
We've all watched all the CSIs.

Speaker 1 (50:45):
We know that you have to put DNA into the code of
state of aches.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
We know how that works.
We know what you're looking for.
We understand the fingerprintprocedure.
We understand blood tests.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
We now know that dental impressions may not be.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
They're not accurate.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
Junk science.
That's what it's referred to.
Bite mark analysis yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
Bite mark analysis is junk science.
Hair follicle investigation isjunk science.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
Lie detector test.
Lie detector test is junkscience.

Speaker 2 (51:19):
There's another big one too, that it's like what?

Speaker 1 (51:24):
Handwriting samples.

Speaker 2 (51:26):
Handwriting samples.

Speaker 1 (51:27):
Junk science.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
There was another one that was really junk signs.
Maybe it was the bite markthing, because that guy.
I feel like it's somethingabout the guy with the bite mark
, the bite mark guy.
Well, that was the there's awhole series, documentary series
about the cases that they hadto reverse, because this what he
was talking about cause thisfucking yay, who was selling
snake oil to prosecutors?

(51:49):
He's on there preaching abouthow it's not junk science, but
it clearly is.
Right All scientists agree thatit's trash, and here we'll get a
trash.
We know that something is trashscience it's trash science.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
Well, and it had me convinced, in the West Memphis
Three case too, the bite works.
Yeah, remember the one stepdad,the goofy one.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
Oh, Snaggletooth.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
Mm-hmm, yeah, yeah, I mean he might have just been
doing that to punish the kids.
That's the other thing.

Speaker 2 (52:23):
Let's talk about that right here, because in every
true crime case there's there'salways like a red herring of a
guy who's like way toointerested but he ends up not
being right right right, peopleare just weirdos right
necessarily kill people somepeople want to just be attached
to tragedy and mystery and casesfor it.

(52:47):
You hear them talk about it,people that want to be so, they
want to help the police Rightand they interject themselves,
but sometimes it's the killer.
We've seen ones where it's thekiller.

Speaker 1 (53:01):
Hello Dexter, he was working for the police.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
But there was that one where that guy was hanging
out down at the police bar.
He ended up being the serialkiller.
Yeah, Like but he was justtrying to interject himself into
the case.
I don't know why they do that.
If I committed a series ofmurders, I'm obviously not going
to be like well, you guysworking on over there.

Speaker 1 (53:25):
I know, but like if you're that mentally unstable to
do a murder?

Speaker 2 (53:43):
do you think like you're probably, cause I'm?
It's probably working on yourmind and if you can't get to
what the facts are the realfacts it might drive you even
more insane too.
With some of this is like thiswas a serial killer specifically
, but they want to be involvedin that.
That's a part of the element ofit for them, right want to be
hear the news reports see theinvestigation right only how
many of them have interactedwith the police in some way or
another, or the reporter right,that's oh right right and that's

(54:07):
what this was is.
This guy was hanging out downlike talking to the hey, what's
up, guys, how's that serialkiller case going?
And meanwhile he's the serialkiller.
They caught on, though, theycaught on, they got it Right.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
They caught on after about the seventh one All right
alright, so let's wrap it upwith a couple cases that you may
or may not know of, but feelfree to interject your thoughts,
opinions and feelings, sodetective these cases are

(54:44):
keeping me up late at night withthis heartburn.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
I can't even take it on these bodies.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
Oh my Atlanta, what was that?
Oh, you were just making.
I thought that you wereimpersonating an actual guy on
like ID channel or something.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
Angry, disgruntled detective.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
We can talk about that real quick though.

Speaker 2 (55:08):
What.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
We forgot how many amazing voices there are in true
crime.
We talked about loving thepodcast, my favorite, yes.

Speaker 2 (55:20):
Robert Stack.
Yes, he's the greatest mysteryvoice of all time.
Yes, he'll scare the shit outof you.
Yes, but he's also likeengaging, like you want to hear
what he's got to say, and he'slike, and it's just like, it's
scary and soothing all at thesame time although you know what

(55:41):
I've learned.
You know his voice is verysimilar william shatner yeah,
yeah and it's weird because ifyou and here's how you know
they're very similar Turn ithere's a little test for you
kids out there Make it thelatest Tik TOK thing, so you get
William Shatner on theunexplained on one TV and Robert
stack on unsolved mysteries onanother TV.

(56:02):
If you turn both of them downto like a low volume level, to
where you can't necessarily likethe you know, just out of reach
, to like where you fully knowwho it is, just one notch below
that you cannot tell them apart.
Like the spots in their voicethat are like the warmest and
the deepest, like match upalmost perfectly.

(56:25):
And because the reason I knowthis is because I like to have
the TV on late at night whileI'm sleeping.
Sometimes I wake up and it'sthe unexplained, it's down low
and I can't tell without lookingat the TV what show it is.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
As long as it's not Jerry Seinfeld's motherfucking
voice for me, I'm fine.

Speaker 2 (56:48):
I've also had Robert Stack be involved in Nightmare,
so that's a big one.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
I had to implement a rule when we first started
dating that he was not allowedto watch Jerry Seinfeld at night
the Seinfeld show because Icouldn't.
If I heard his voice in themiddle of the night, I would
wake up and just be angry.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
What's the deal with murder?

Speaker 1 (57:09):
But yeah, and Keith Morrison's voice?
You can't not bring up KeithMorrison's voice, which was the
best voice ever until Haderruined it.
Bill Hader ruined it for me Imean, I love that impression, I
do, I do Keith.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
Morrison's the best Dateline guy hands down.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
He trumps Murph.

Speaker 1 (57:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:30):
Andrea.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
Yeah and oh.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
Mankiewicz he does?

Speaker 1 (57:35):
Mankiewicz sounds like an ex-cop.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
He does the Mankiewicz.
He's dead.
He's worked every case.
I love it.
I don't know why all my copsare near.
I guess because of Law andOrder.

Speaker 1 (57:47):
Yeah, that was my first impression.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
and Columbo, this is my first impression of
detectives with suits and trenchcoats and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
What was that one that my mom used to watch?
Oh, Heat of the Night.
Was that a show In?

Speaker 2 (58:04):
the heat of the night .

Speaker 1 (58:13):
I think it was a show , but I was a show, but I don't
know.
I don't remember anything aboutit.
But yeah, so, okay.
So we live in the johnstown,pennsylvania area and there's a
couple cold cases over the years.
Some of them are in the early70s.
I think I talked at one timewhen we were talking about my
Uncle Mike, that Miami Mike,miami Mike yeah, call back, dude

(58:33):
, I love it.
So Miami Mike was found in ahotel room with a self-inflicted
shotgun wound.
But I've heard rumors that thatmay have not been the case.
But I don't.
My family's weird.
They don't like to talk aboutshit.
So that may never get reopened.
So whoever did it if they diddo it is going to get away with

(58:53):
it.
That's all I'm going to saythere.
But most of the cases eitherhappened, like I said, in the
seventies or there's been a rashof recent murders, but they're
all.
So those ones are all drugrelated.
Right, we've got a lot of.

Speaker 2 (59:13):
Can we just be honest the drug related ones are not
as fun.

Speaker 1 (59:17):
They're not fun.
You know why it happens.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
It's not crazy when it's business.
It's almost like not as good.

Speaker 1 (59:25):
Right, it's like when , when it's like when a company
takes over another company, youdon't really care about that too
much.
That's kind of like the drugbusiness like if they're like
off murdering because of drugs,I really don't care.

Speaker 2 (59:38):
That's the place to do the mafia right, they're just
killing each other, doing itlike I don't it's the price to
do in business.
Yes, right when you'reconducting business, and murder
is a part of it.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
when your business is murder, I don't care about it,
just so everybody knows we don'tcondone, I don't condone murder
, I mean, I do in certain cases.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
Well, certain ones.

Speaker 1 (59:59):
Anyways.
So, but in the 90s.
So like these three cases thatI'm going to bring up, 95, 96,
96.
So the case in 95, there islike no information.
I'm pretty sure her kids atleast one of her children, is

(01:00:19):
now since passed away.
But Catherine Bitter, she was inher early 20s.
She already had a kid, at leastmaybe two or three, and she was
living out in the Beaverdalearea, which is Cambria County,
pennsylvania, but it's outsideof Johnstown, it's rural.

(01:00:40):
She was the last seen with herboyfriend.
From what I read, I don't knowthat anybody thought that it was
her boyfriend and maybe he wascleared.
I'm not a hundo on that.
Like I said, there's not awhole lot of information out
there, but then, like when yougo into Facebook to kind of look
it up, there's peoplecommenting on it who lived

(01:01:00):
around that time back in the dayand one of the things that I
that jumped off the page to mewas that she was fed to the pigs
at one of the farms out there.
Yeah, so I mean I don't know ifthat you know like that was
just literally a rumor that wasgoing around about what happened
to her, because she's neverbeen found.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
It seems to be like when it's unsolved, people make
up.
You can only take a lot of thatstuff that you can't solve,
because it's like the telephonegame, it's like these aren't
people connected, I just heardthis from somebody who heard it
from this person and we knowthat people are full of shit.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
And one of the other rumors that I read was that
there was like an undergroundwine cellar out there somewhere
that a farmer owned the land.
So if anybody knows more aboutthat and wants to deep dive it,
you know, hit me up.
Um, it's alanna atgildedtrashcom, but in the
meantime there's relatively noinformation on that one, so I

(01:02:02):
can't do anything about it.
Um, the next one that jumps offthe page to me um 1996, it was
January, 27 year old, DeannaHorner, uh, was found with 27
blows to her head, which I findodd.

Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
Can I ask one question?

Speaker 1 (01:02:24):
Yes, just right off the top.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
Yes, Is she?
Is her family?
Is she a descendant of thepeople who named horner's town?

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
horner's town.
Well, so her husband I thinkhis name is ed horner, I don't,
I don't even know if shewouldn't be.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
That wasn't her baby, that was her, right.

Speaker 1 (01:02:45):
So that was her husband's name, right?
Um, I think I wrote it downsomewhere, maybe I didn't, but
so her husband.
So here's the thing is, thisgirl was 27 in johnstown,
pennsylvania, in 1995, and I'mnot saying that there weren't

(01:03:05):
business people in their 20s andthe 90s.
I mean I graduated in 1993,right, so she's 27.
I don't know what her maidenname is, so maybe that plays
into it.
But what I don't know is whythese young 20-somethings had

(01:03:28):
money, her and her husband.
Now he had some money in realestate.
Yeah, I don't think.
As far as I can tell, theydidn't come from families with
money, is what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
Okay, so there's a question as to what they might
have been involved in Right.
Maybe not.
I don't want to put that outthere.
We're just throwing questions.
Right, I'm just askingquestions.

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
And so she was found and there's a couple of things
about this.
She was found and there's acouple things about this.
So, first of all, her husband'sbusiness partner, Richard Allen
Smith, was the last person toallegedly have seen her, and he
was acquitted, so he was charged.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
He got charged and beat the charges.
He was acquitted, which, again,that doesn't necessarily mean
anything.
I don't know the evidence, so Ican't do it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
It doesn't mean he didn't do it.
It just means that they fuckingprobably if he did do it, they
didn't have enough and theyjumped the gun on it and tried
to get it solved too quickly,which happens a lot too.
Right, but if he did do it andthere's nothing they can do
about it.
I'd be impressed to look intothat one.
What's that?
Well, there's more the rumors,but I want to talk.

(01:04:44):
So she's like I said, I don'tknow that it's related, but
27-year-old and 27 blows to thehead, like I thought that was
kind of weird.
Yeah, so where they found herwas?
They referred to it as anabandoned house, and I want to
talk about that because thehouse was owned by Dr Chandra

(01:05:04):
Vora and if you're from theJohnstown area, you know who Dr
Vora is, because she's like alocal legend and I don't mean
that in a good way and it's notbad either.
It's actually kind of sad.
I don't know how much of thisis true, but I was told growing
up that she was an actualmedical doctor in India and

(01:05:25):
moved to the United States andat some point and I don't know
if it was when she lost herhusband or what went off the
deep end.
So she became the bag lady andshe pushed a cart and I don't
know, she might even still bearound.
I don't know if she's stillalive, but she would push a cart
through town and collect cansand whatever, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
I was going to say she was collecting, looking for
gilded trash.

Speaker 1 (01:05:50):
Yes, she was, but I don't know if she had the
wherewithal to think about it.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
Like a lot of people, she went from doctor to bag
lady.
That's the point.

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
Right, and a lot of people say that you know she was
crazy.
A lot of people said that shewasn't crazy, that it was a life
choice.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:06:08):
That's crazy though, because, like, I mean, I could
certainly see.
I mean this is such a weirdthing, but every town obviously
has a person that pushes ashopping counter.

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
Like every small town I should say has, like has a
couple of homeless people thatare known to the locals in
cities.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
They're transients and they don't but when it's
local homeless when it's local,homeless people know who they
are.

Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
It's like a stray dog .
They get fed.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
Betty the bad guy or Johnny the can man?
You know, and they like theyhave a thing that they do and
everybody there's always like anair of mystery.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:49):
Backstory yeah, they're always like a superhero,
right.
That's exactly it, and there'slike where did they live before?
What did they do?
Right how did they get hereRight?
How did they become the capedavenger, you know?

Speaker 1 (01:07:03):
So, um, so she, so Deanna, was found in Dr Vora's
house, which they have listed asabandoned.
And and again, like, I don'tknow if it was technically
abandoned, because I think thatit was just she would come and
go as she pleased and didn'treally have an attachment to

(01:07:24):
personal things like that, but Imean she knew it was her house.
I don't know if it was taken tomy knowledge it wasn't like up
for tax sale or anything likethat.
So that's where Deanna wasfound, in Dr Vora's house, which
they had listed as abandoned.
So I don't know how, like what,the backstory on that is, Her
husband's business partner wasacquitted.

(01:07:45):
But at the end of the day,here's some of the rumors
involved with this one that theprosecuting attorney, when
Richard Allen Smith was beingindicted, had a cocaine
addiction.
So remember I said these areyoung people, they have a
construction company, they havereal estate holdings, right?

(01:08:10):
But there's also a lot ofrumors of mafia connections.
So I'm going to say the guy'sname because he was listed.
I love the mafia connection.
Yeah, that's fun.
I'm a little afraid I feel likeI'm saying Beetlejuice,
Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice rightnow.
Um, but I'm saying this guy'sname because it was listed in
the paper Um, but allegedly some.

(01:08:35):
There was a hit man fromFlorida named John Charney who
was contracted by her husband tocome up here and kill her.

Speaker 2 (01:08:46):
That's interesting because that's I mean on
multiple levels.

Speaker 1 (01:08:50):
Yeah.
So when I was looking into that, allegedly this John Charney
guy was a cocaine runner and hasties to some local families who
own businesses.
That I'm not going to say outloud, but if I get, murdered.

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
There's some ties between some businesses, some
cocaine dealings and some people.

Speaker 1 (01:09:10):
If I get murdered?
Here's a couple things.
If you get murdered, make sureit wasn't Anna Friese first,
because if it was Anna Friese,scott did it Actually.
Now, if it's Anna Friese, itcould be anybody, because I said
it out loud and they're goingto frame you.
Oh my God, don't frame Scott,wait a minute.

Speaker 2 (01:09:25):
This is like Scott Peterson.

Speaker 1 (01:09:27):
That's exactly what happened.

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
They've seen the body where he was fishing.
They put it there.
I'm not going down there, right?
No, we don't know, scott.

Speaker 1 (01:09:33):
Peterson.
We don't know if Scott Petersondid it or not.
I just snorted on that one.
Okay, so those were the rumorsaround that one, and allegedly
this guy was running a plane,flying a plane back and forth to
Florida bringing back cocaineback and forth.
Sounds good, man.
I know there's a lot of juicy.

(01:09:53):
It has all the elements andevery single one of them could
be a red herring and it couldhave just been Richard Allen
Smith.

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
Right, that's the thing about so many of these is
like and it could have just beenRichard Allen Smith.
Right, that's the thing aboutso many of these is like there's
all this stuff going on, butjust because you see things,
that's what you have to remember.

Speaker 1 (01:10:06):
Just because there's smoke doesn't mean there's fire,
that's exactly right.

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
That's true, If there is smoke, sometimes there is
fire.
But like especially in some ofthese cases, the clues and stuff
are so convoluted.
And like you said, red redherrings, they have you going on
wild goose chases, right,because you're spending so much
time running down this lead andthen it turns out to be nothing
right and this sounds like oneof them cases it sounds like
something juicy that somebodycould sink their teeth into if

(01:10:34):
they're so inclined to do apodcast that's cold case or
unsolved or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:10:41):
I'm not saying I'm going to be that person.
There's a couple that areprobably nearer and dearer to my
heart that I would like to godown but for fear of being
murdered by local drug dealersI'm not going to.
Robert T Williams rest in peace.
But the case that really,really, really pulls at my

(01:11:02):
heartstrings for a lot of reasonand it touches on all that.
It touches on local corruption,it touches on um you know
rumors, it touches on all kindsof things is Bethann Bowden
chats or Bowden shots.
I'm sorry, guys, it's one ofthe two Um, but so she was 36

(01:11:22):
years old when she was murderedin um january of 1996.
She was a nurse, so beth annwas a nurse at lee hospital at
the time.
It's no longer, I don't even.
There's a lee campus still downthere, but I don't think it's
functional as lee hospital.
It probably has a new name atthis point I I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:11:43):
Everybody knows how hospitals change hands every
four to five years in smalltowns.

Speaker 1 (01:11:47):
Yeah, exactly, so at the time it was Lee Hospital and
they were looking to merge orbe acquired.
I think they were.
I think they were so, um no, Idon't know.
I don't know what happened.
I wasn't there, but so soBethann lived up in the Summer

(01:12:08):
Hill slash, new Germany area ofCambria County, which is a nice
little quiet, what's that itsounds very nice.
Like.

Speaker 2 (01:12:16):
I think it sounds nicer than it probably really is
.

Speaker 1 (01:12:20):
So what's that?
One town, that that one guy,you know that guy that was in
the movies?
Yeah, charles fucking Bronson.
Charles fucking.

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
Bronson, charles fucking Bronson.

Speaker 1 (01:12:27):
Yeah, he was from Ehrenfeld Ehrenfeld.

Speaker 2 (01:12:30):
Which is right there.
It's all the same.

Speaker 1 (01:12:31):
Yeah, like so, ehrenfeld, new Germany,
summerhill, it's all the same.
They're all different sides ofthe river and and stuff.
Exactly All tiny little coalmining towns in Cambria County,
pennsylvania.

Speaker 2 (01:12:43):
Charles fucking Bronson.

Speaker 1 (01:12:46):
So Bethann had four kids at the time Eleven, nine,
eight and I think four.
So the youngest one was at homewith her.
That day, and I think it was aFriday morning.
The eleven, nine and eight yearolds were at school and they

(01:13:06):
came home from school their dadwas still at work and they found
their mom with a gunshot woundto the back of her head.
The four year old was, or Ican't remember if the baby was
two or four, but the child wasunharmed.
Her ring was missing, which wasa two carat worth roughly

(01:13:28):
$2,500.
I mean, she was in her home,her husband was at work, the
kids were at school, but she wasalso a nurse.
We're talking daytime earlyFriday and the thing of it is
like when you're a nurse and Icould be wrong.

(01:13:50):
Maybe she worked the sameMonday through Friday schedule,
but I've worked in hospitals.

Speaker 2 (01:13:56):
Yeah, she probably rotated.
Right, so you'd have to, you'dalmost you would have to know
somewhat of her comings andgoings.
You wouldn't necessarily haveto write a book.

Speaker 1 (01:14:06):
Right, exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:14:08):
You would have to pay a little bit of attention.
So it was Her husband workedduring the day, though, right,
right, a hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (01:14:16):
Yeah, and I'm 99.9% positive that they were able to
clear him, and I don't thinkanybody's I don't think
anybody's ever thought that hewas a suspect at all Right.

Speaker 2 (01:14:25):
I mean some people that are able to rule out quick,
like you said, if he, if eightpeople saw him at work, it's a
done deal, right, right.

Speaker 1 (01:14:31):
Right.
So, um, the kids the threeolder kids came home and found
their it was a .40 caliber Glock.
That was never recovered A .40caliber.
You said yeah, yeah, and sonobody was ever charged, like

(01:14:58):
they don't want to charge anyonebecause they want to have the
evidence.
There's the rumor behind thisone, the juicy tidbit, and I've
heard it over the years frommultiple people.
This has been the rumor sinceday one.
As a matter of fact, I went toa business college and one of my
professors there was actuallyfriends with Bethian, and I

(01:15:19):
think even she had mentionedthis, and I won't say her name
because I don't want her to getin trouble at the hospital or in
a insurance case or forsomething that would, and at the

(01:15:47):
same time Lee Hospital wasbeing acquired or merging or
whatever the case may be, whichwould have looked bad from a
business perspective.

Speaker 2 (01:15:57):
Right, I mean, I guess it depends on what it is.

Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
So I think if there were any cases that I were going
to deep dive, it woulddefinitely be that one, because,
well, a lot of the players arestill in the game.
That's what I'm saying.
If it was, I mean, the hospitalthing could be a red herring,
but, um, there's, some of theplayers are still around, I mean

(01:16:21):
so we're ready, ering's got abed and she's got four children
that deserve to know what andwhy.

Speaker 2 (01:16:32):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:16:36):
So angry, so angry, so, anyways, that wraps up my
diatribe on all the things badin crime that happens, but yet I
still listen to crime kidsright, I don't ever like, I
don't have my heart on settingon solving a case or anything

(01:16:57):
like that but tell me you don'twant to dig your teeth into that
juicy little thing there I do,but we talked about this in the
last episode when we weresetting it up like what are we
going to do next week?
we set it up and we talked abouthow much work it is to do a
true crime.
We were just talking about it,that little tidbit on Bethann,
that is bits and pieces thatI've written down over the years

(01:17:20):
of going down Facebook rabbitholes and looking up names and
stuff like that.
Like, obviously I'm not goingto say who where I saw what but
yeah, it's good, you become PatNussbaum's wife.
Right and I'm very conducive toboth pills and suicide.
So I don't think I want to godown that rabbit hole.
I don't want to get into that.
No, she didn't commit.

(01:17:42):
I don't think she committedsuicide she yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:46):
But I mean, that's the thing she was taking so many
pills to stay up, pills to goto sleep, right, because she
became so obsessed with theGolden State Killer case.

Speaker 1 (01:17:53):
Right, she was writing a book Right.

Speaker 2 (01:17:54):
Right, and she became so involved in it.

Speaker 1 (01:17:58):
But I mean to be fair .
The Golden State was like thegolden goose.
The Golden State killer case isthe.
It's the get of the century.

Speaker 2 (01:18:12):
Well, not only that, but it's the amalgamation of all
the true crime podcasts,everything that created the
ability for that case to besolved yeah was because of true
crime yeah people working on it,and that was decades, decades
after the crimes had stoppedbecause the last crimes were
like the 80s decades.

(01:18:33):
After the crimes had stopped,civilian sleuths kept working,
kept that they did the dna right, and even that took civilians
to root through all thegenealogy to get to actually
catching.

Speaker 1 (01:18:50):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:18:51):
And that's amazing, like that's amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:18:54):
But look at how much it takes to get it when it's not
a gimme.

Speaker 2 (01:18:58):
Look at the amount.
So, just by comparison, howmany documentaries were there
about that case?
How many people working onbooks, podcasts, all of it?
There was probably millions ofman hours involved between the
actual case, the detectives andstuff that worked it, millions

(01:19:19):
of man hours into catching thisguy.

Speaker 1 (01:19:21):
Right, that's amazing to think about, right.
So yeah, and I just don't right, and we don't have millions of
man hours or a production teamor or any of that we're both
very skilled researchers.
We could do it, but we've gotother things going on right now
is the point, and if we hadnothing else going on and we

(01:19:42):
both have full-time jobs and youhave a part-time job, so if
none of that.

Speaker 2 (01:19:46):
Research in cases is tough.
We need a crack squad team.
Is that what you said, like acrack squad, a crack team?

Speaker 1 (01:19:54):
a crack team.

Speaker 2 (01:19:55):
Where did they come up with that Anyway?

Speaker 1 (01:19:57):
you know, I guess, I don't know.
I don't know no, it's beenaround since the 18th, but why
didn't?

Speaker 2 (01:20:06):
crack dealers use that.
We got a crack team specialistout here on the corner today,
boy but um.
So what I'm saying is, ifyou're a super skilled
researcher and you or you have atechnical skills, production
skills and you want to join,have a technical skills,
production skills and you wantto join together and form a

(01:20:26):
super team, we could spend alittle bit of time working on
some cases.

Speaker 1 (01:20:31):
Right, exactly Like we have the resources to do it,
we just don't have the time.

Speaker 2 (01:20:35):
A set amount of time Exactly, but we wouldn't be able
to.
It wouldn't be able to be ourlife.

Speaker 1 (01:20:40):
Right for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:20:41):
So what I'm saying is if you're already working on
something, that's fine.

Speaker 1 (01:20:44):
You know what I mean, because I want my husband to
continue his comedy adventures.

Speaker 2 (01:20:50):
I would love to be introduced like that, though
They'd be like he's out of heresolving murders and telling
jokes, folks.

Speaker 1 (01:20:58):
What are?

Speaker 2 (01:20:58):
we talking about next week, next podcast.
Oh, you gave me the willies.
No, next podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:21:04):
Oh, you gave me the wellies.
Are you so excited?

Speaker 2 (01:21:05):
I'm so excited, we're talking paranormal.

Speaker 1 (01:21:08):
It's Octember, babies , we're talking paranormal.

Speaker 2 (01:21:15):
Paranormal.
Paranormal Ghost, ghost, ghostfans.
We might talk about goblins.
We just recently.
We might talk about goblins.
We just recently found outabout some goblins.

Speaker 1 (01:21:27):
Oh yeah, I forgot about that.

Speaker 2 (01:21:28):
God Goblins are on the table.
I could do a million hours ofthis next discussion that we're
going to do next week.
We could talk 25 hours, becausewe both come from families who
have a long history of lovingparanormals.

Speaker 1 (01:21:43):
Yeah for sure.
Oh God, we might have to splitit into decades.
It might be two episodes.
It might be two episodes.
I mean, what better to leadinto Halloween season than two
episodes of talking abouteverything?
You kidding me, you kidding meright now I do want to get into
it, but we won't.
We used to take the kids ghosthunting.

(01:22:04):
That was fun.

Speaker 2 (01:22:06):
We've been ghost hunting since before there was
ghost hunters.

Speaker 1 (01:22:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:22:09):
Long before there was ever ghost hunters.
Yes, and my grandma was ghosthunting back before there was.
Even they didn't even use theword ghost Stop it, spirit, I
love it.

Speaker 1 (01:22:24):
Alright, so we won't go down that rabbit hole.
But in closing, do you have anyparting words for our friends
and family?
Today, our trash can fam.

Speaker 2 (01:22:33):
From a great detective who once lived, named
PJ Long Tooth Hollingsworth, orit might have been Inspector
Gadget, I'm not sure, but theysaid that one man's trash is
another man's clue to solving amurder.
Always remember that, oh my God.

Speaker 1 (01:22:55):
Until next time, folks, peace.

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