June 11, 2024 • 32 mins
In this powerful and enlightening episode of Girl Tawk, join host Melissa Ann and her special guests, Dr. Kelley, a trauma-focused therapist, and Anissa Blair, a passionate trauma coach, as they discuss the critical topic of domestic violence.
The conversation covers essential aspects such as identifying red flags, understanding trauma bonds, and the challenges victims face when attempting to leave abusive relationships. Both guests share expert advice on creating safety plans, the importance of financial independence, and the insidious nature of love bombing in abusive dynamics.
This episode aims to empower and inform viewers about the realities of domestic violence while offering practical steps for those affected to seek help and support.
Due to the sensitive nature of the discussion, viewer discretion is advised.
00:00 Content Warning and Introduction
00:45 Welcome and Guest Introductions
01:00 Understanding Domestic Violence
04:04 Misconceptions and Addictive Nature of Abuse
05:52 The Why Behind Abuse
09:22 Gradual Escalation and Love Bombing
13:03 Being Disagreeable and Authentic
19:46 Cultural Influences and Social Media
21:20 Safety Plans and Support Systems
28:10 Final Thoughts and ResourcesThanks for watching.
👉 Listen now: www.youtube.com/@GirlTawk
If you like this episode, please show some love by liking and leaving a review.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
CONTENT WARNING!The following episode contains
a discussion about DomesticViolence that may be triggering
or upsetting for viewers.
Viewer Discretion Is Advised.
If you or someone you knowis in need of help call the
National Domestic ViolenceHotline 1-800-7-9-9-7-2-3-3
(00:20):
that's actually what the lovebombing is meant for as well,
is to collect information.
Because during lovebombing, they're just
listening to everything.
They're such good listeners,and they want to know
everything about you.
But it's also so that theycan employ those insecurities
at times where they're justtrying to help you improve.
Or be a better version ofyourself, or don't you love
(00:40):
me, those kind of acts.
Welcome to Girl Talk withMelissa Anne and today I
have some wonderful guests.
I have a trauma coachas well as a trauma
therapist with me today.
Both are familiar faces thathave been on the podcast.
But today we're going to talkabout a really serious topic.
(01:00):
I think, um, from my lens, I'veseen a lot of, I don't know
if I want to call it just Idon't, I want to say horseplay,
but it isn't horseplay, butpeople not being serious
enough about what I'm seeingas far as domestic violence.
It is almost like it is a thingthat's been being normalized.
(01:26):
And I wanted to have thisconversation today with
these two young ladies,just to help us understand,
okay, A, it is not normal.
B, what are someof the triggers?
And some of the things thatyou can do to get out of a
situation or not even getinto situation to begin with.
(01:46):
And so this while this is notmy wheelhouse, I've never been
in that type of situation.
I've watched it.
Um, my mother was, and wecould talk about that as,
you know, as we go throughthe, through the podcast.
But first, um, I want you to,to introduce yourselves briefly.
I know everyone, you know,if they're following us,
(02:08):
they've, they've seen you bothbefore, but briefly introduce
yourselves, tell us a littlebit about yourselves and we can
kick it off with some questions.
I'm Dr.
Kelly.
I've had the honor of talkingto Melissa before on Girl
Talk, and I'm a local, well,local to Raleigh, uh, trauma
focused therapist, yogateacher, meditation teacher,
(02:28):
author, podcaster, professor.
Basically, I'm just obsessedwith, uh, Self help.
Yes.
No, no, no.
Not superwoman.
I wasn't saying that.
No, I'm just, I'm reallypassionate about anything
dealing with, uh, mentalhealth and empowerment.
Like that's a big partfor me is that these
conversations should be meantto empower and, um, inform.
(02:50):
And so that's why Ilove that we're having
this conversation today.
Thank you for having me.
And we'll talk aboutyour book as well.
And Miss Anissa.
Hello people.
I am back.
Thank you for havingme again, Melissa.
Um, yes, I am a trauma coachand I've been a trauma coach
for about eight years now.
I am just as a passionate,or I want to say more
(03:13):
passionate than Dr.
Kelly when it comesto, um, working with
women in particular.
I do work with men, butI am passionate about
bringing more awarenesswithin the black community
to the importance of women.
Understanding generationaltrauma and how to move
past it because we haveto understand that our
(03:33):
experiences are a directcorrelation to the decisions
that we're making as adults.
And we have to stop that cycleof abuse at some point in time.
So yes, I ampassionate about that.
I am a, obviously a coach anda published author as well.
And I just loveworking with people.
awesome, well,let's dig right in.
(03:54):
So from your lens, I'm surethat you guys are work with
women or even men that havebeen in a DV situation.
What do you find are someof the misconceptions
surrounding domestic violence?
So, as far as one of thebiggest misconceptions that
I can gather would be thatit's easy to leave and that
(04:19):
people should just do it.
I think that understandingthe addictive nature of the
Uh, of a domestic violent,um, or the addictive nature
of an abusive relationship.
And what I mean by that is thatour brain becomes normalized
to this intermittent rewardthat can happen when you go
(04:40):
through the cycle of abuse.
So you have this mountingtension and then a situation
arises, whether it be physicalabuse, emotional abuse, verbal
abuse, and then there's thisresolving and then the repair.
And the repair is so.
So incredibly affirming for thebrain, the amount of dopamine
(05:00):
that is released during repairis enough to keep people bonded.
And so these traumabonds can happen.
And they're, it's almost likea slot machine where we get
more of that reward from notknowing when we're going to get
the positive outcome we want.
And so there's an actualaddictive nature to
these trauma bonds.
That's not even to saythe whole practicality of
(05:23):
finances, power, um, safety.
Children, um,access to services.
So we've got these two thingsat play with not having enough
supports for people to leaveand then not respecting the
addictive nature that theserelationships can have.
And I see where, you know,it's like anything else when
(05:43):
you say addiction, right?
Anything else, you know,alcohol, drugs, cigarettes,
whatever it is that's it'ssex, that's addicting.
But what I can't seem to, towrap my hands around or my, the
thought process around is thewhy, you know, a man or a woman
feels like they have the right.
(06:04):
That's it.
To, you know, layhands on someone
in any given situation.
I was, you know, many, manyyears ago, I was in, at a hotel
and I could hear someone beingabused and I called security,
but security, you know, theywouldn't knock on the door.
(06:24):
They wouldn't go in,they just, you know,
standing there listening.
I'm like, well, aren'tyou going to do something?
Mm hmm.
And you know, and theydidn't and it was just It
bothered me because I couldhear the the stress or the
distress in that young woman.
So what is it thatWhat's the why behind it
(06:45):
I think from what I'veexperienced with some of
my clients is that theytypically have come from an
environment or a past wherethey've seen it before.
And it becomes part of, Idon't want to say acceptable,
but it becomes For lack ofa better word, the norm of
what they've seen growing up.
So they think that thosestruggles or those bouts
(07:08):
of violence are acceptable.
And then they, they take it astep further and think that that
is the, the blueprint for futurerelationships because they
think that's the sign of love.
That's a sign of attention.
Um, and that, that, in that waythat abuse becomes normalized
and to a certain extent, whatI've seen in my experience
(07:30):
is when, when women get awayfrom that environment and then
they meet someone who is notlike that, that attraction to
that other individual is notas strong because they're not
displaying those type of habitsand behaviors that they've
been used to all their lives.
while.
I would agree absolutely withwhat Anissa is saying, and
(07:50):
it has to do also with ournervous systems, where if you
are, it's, in my first book,What I Wish I Knew, I talked
about the frog, how they, howthey, I don't know if anyone
knows how they kill frogs,but if you throw a frog into a
boiling pot, it jumps right out.
But if you put a frog intepid water and slowly raise
the temperature, it doesn'tknow what's happening, and
(08:11):
that's how they successfully.
You know, kill frogs Andit's kind of a similar thing
with our nervous system.
If abuse or behaviors thatare harmful are so outside the
norm, as you're saying, Anissa,something that you didn't grow
up around or that you weren'tnormalized to, it's shocking to
your system and you notice itand you're, this is not okay.
(08:31):
But if it's something thatyour nervous system has become
acclimated to, those samebells and whistles are not
going to go off as soon as.
They should, and that's wherethe, the trauma bond can come
in and get someone into thatcognitive dissonance where
you, you have morally onethought, I'm a strong woman
(08:53):
or I'm a strong man and Ideserve to be treated well.
But then, Your feelings arehow do I leave this person?
It's so it's so hardWhat are some of the like, And,
and I don't say men or womenbecause I know it's both, right?
So how do you, how do theyget women or how do they get
the, their victim pulled in?
(09:15):
Like they're not, youknow, automatically
starting at that level.
How do they get them pulled in?
Well, it normally starts verysubtle, um, and it kind of
escalates from there, so itmight be a simple disagreement.
Let's just say she puts on anoutfit that he may find too
revealing or too sexy, right?
(09:37):
And it will start off with avery strong urging of to take
those clothes off because of theattention, the outside attention
that you're going to get.
And then it'll build from thereto now becoming more intense.
And more angry and moreaggressive and then that
particular aggressive would thenstart picking apart their victim
(10:00):
per se and everything would bescrutinized and under the back
under the magnifying glass.
Both of you made such a goodpoint too about the the kind
of gradual, um increase and Ithink one of the things too to
consider is the mechanism oflove bombing that it serves a
purpose for bonding And lovebombing for your listeners
(10:24):
Probably heard this termbefore, but essentially it's
this influx of adoration andit could look like gift giving.
It can look likelots of attention.
And what happens in thesesituations is that you become.
Hooked on the other personmuch quicker than maybe
the relationship warrants.
(10:44):
And so when there's thesegradual pullbacks of love
and you want to work toget it back, that's when
that cycle of abuse starts.
And those, as Anissa wassaying, it's almost like an
experimentation at first.
If it's someone who's anarcissist or who's abusive,
they're going to see whatthey can get away with.
I was going to say, theytest, they test the waters.
(11:07):
Absolutely.
That is sick.
Like, you, you're, you're,you test in the waters
and see, okay, is sheactually the type of person
that I can get away with?
If not, I don't want to doa deal with that person.
I'll go about it like fishing.
Think about like going fishing.
Right.
You cast your, you castyour reel out, you've put
your, you put your baiton, but, and you're sitting
(11:30):
there and nothing's biting.
So what are you goingto obviously do?
You're going to moveto another spot.
So that's what they tend to do.
They move around until theyfind that spot, that perfect
storm of a woman who isalready struggling with her
own self value, her self worth.
And they monopolize on itbecause in their own way,
(11:50):
they feel like they'redoing you a service.
By correcting your wrongsor by bringing forth things
that you need to do to bebetter at or do differently.
You bring up such a good point,too, about, um, they will use,
and that's actually what thelove bombing is meant for as
well, is to collect information.
Because during lovebombing, they're just
listening to everything.
(12:11):
They're such good listeners,and they want to know
everything about you.
But it's also so that theycan employ those insecurities
at times where they're justtrying to help you improve.
Or be a better version ofyourself, or don't you love
me, those kind of acts.
So you bring up a reallygood point with that.
Um, and I, I want toreiterate one thing, because
(12:32):
we've been talking aboutwomen as opposed to men.
Research shows thatmen are equally abused
emotionally, so I want to makehmm.
that, you know, we're clearthat the, the stats are pretty
equal, um, between genders.
Physical abuse and sexual abusedoes err about a third more
towards women, which makesa lot of unfortunate sense.
(12:55):
Um, but that being said, thatphishing portion, I know you
asked us, like, how do wekeep this from happening?
I always encourage people tolean into disagreeability.
The more holisticallydisagreeable you are because
you are being your authenticself, the less likely the
hook is going to catch you.
(13:16):
Mm hmm.
Double click there.
You know, what aresome of the steps?
On how to be adisagreeable person.
And I'm asking this because,A, I understand that men
are probably in this poolof individuals too, but this
podcast is girl talk, so we'reYes.
focused on, on the women,unfortunately, sorry, men.
(13:37):
But, um, the, you know,understanding, like, how
do you be disagreeable?
Because in the, in society.
Let's be honest, women are kindof, you know, they want a mate
and there's not a large pool.
And so being disagreeabledoesn't make you someone
that is attractiveWell, that's the fine
(13:59):
line with dating.
You're already, when you'remeeting someone for the
first time, you're alreadysending your representative
anyway, because you're not,you've gotten your walls
up and you, you're going tolet your, you know, you're
going to let your wall downa little bit at a time.
But instead of beingpurposely disagreeable,
Make sure that you have, thatyour opinion is valued and
(14:19):
that is going to obviously,hopefully, if you're in tune
with yourself, now, if you'recoming from a perspective of a
woman who has had abuse in thepast or have other feelings of
low self esteem or insecurities,then, She's naturally going
to veer in the direction oftrying to be a pleaser because
she's trying to in this casehook that man But I I'm all
(14:42):
for being authentic and notpurposely disagreeable But
understanding that what you saydoes have value and go into it
with confidence that you knowI can take this or I can leave
this, you know I'm bringing justas much to the plate as he may
be bringing to the plate So wegot to figure out how, cause
we're both 50 50 in this, howthis relationship is going to
(15:02):
be beneficial for both of usand not just one or the other
I love the way you put thatbecause I think when I bring
up disagreeability with somefolks, they think it means just
being difficult, but it doesn't.
It means listening toyour authentic voice and
making sure that's thevoice that's speaking.
Mm So not the impersonator.
(15:23):
Transcripts providedespecially women where we
don't, We're not collectingbodies, meaning we're just
not meeting these random menand everyone we see we're
(15:46):
destined to be in this foreverafter relationship with them.
Right.
And just take thingsfor what they worth.
Look at, take facevalue for what it is.
And I don't like to use theword red flags cause it's
probably over overused.
But when you see those signsthat, uh, He said something
that I didn't like or,uh, he did something that
(16:08):
doesn't feel good to me.
You got to recognize thatand be prepared to run.
Don't always be on this tipof wanting to constantly
compromise with people whoaren't doing the same for you.
think that's a, you know,a valid, a valid response
as well because we ignorered flags because We want
(16:30):
to say, I could change him,Oh, we want a man.
we want a man, butI can't fix that.
You know, he yelled atme on the first date.
That's okay.
Yeah.
He was just We don't wanna thinkthat way though.
, that's dangerous for sure.
I can know for me personallywith my trauma, I had a string
(16:50):
of bad relationships and whatI found was That crazy enough,
I tended to always go into itwhere I, I want to fix them.
I want to make them better.
And I was putting up with awhole bunch of shit that was
never meant to be a part of mystory, but because of my trauma
(17:12):
and I didn't want anyone to feelwhat I felt, I overcompensated
in my relationships bygiving too much of a Vanessa
and not and ignoring thetelltale signs that this
might not be the guy for you.
So I would make up excuses, youknow, like you said, if he, if
he yelled at me or if he was,you know, maybe grab my arm a
(17:34):
little tighter than what I wouldbe comfortable with, well, you
know, he had a bad day at workor, you know, money is tight or,
you know, all these differentscenarios that he didn't even
have to give, give me an excuse.
I gave him excuse often, youknow, off the job because I
wanted to, fix it.
(17:55):
I think to, I don't know,and I'll go back to what
my original statement is.
Um, and I'll caveat it withthis, like my mother was a
product of domestic violence.
Um, I, I saw a few fights, butmy siblings had the brunt of it.
Um, but her, she told methat when she got married.
(18:20):
Her mother told her she wenthome to her mother because
my dad was hitting her.
And her mother was like, that'swhat men do go back home.
Oh gosh.
So, you know, that wasprobably in, you know,
in the forties, right?
And I'm wondering, youknow, it probably was normal
(18:42):
back then that women hadto be subservient, but
I'm seeing a shift now.
Where it just seems likethese men think it's okay to
put hands on somebody's childLike and it is bothering me
What do you guysthink the shift is?
So you're asking ifinstead of having hands
(19:04):
on partners it's hands onNo, no, no i'm saying
Is starting You'reyou're you're hitting a woman.
That's some that'ssomebody's baby.
You know i'm saying that.
Yeah Okay.
Thank you.
Okay um, well, I mean I Idon't know if it's shifting
towards it being okay.
I think that I in myopinion, I think it's being
(19:26):
highlighted more I thinksomething that was happening
behind closed doors You umIs coming out behind those
doors a little bit more andmore people, I mean, I think
about the Me Too movementfor instance, more people
are saying, guess what, thishas been happening all along
and we've been ignoring it.
Anissa, going a differentdirection only because
(19:46):
What this This is what i'mseeing now because I have two
daughters that are teenagersare in high school And i'm
seeing firsthand As what youwere referring to melissa this I
don't know if the word shift isthe right word where everything
now is happening earlierthan what we grew up seeing.
So for example, now youhave high school boys that
(20:11):
will, will physically abusetheir girlfriends, verbally
abuse their girlfriends.
And what I've seen is thecorrelation with cultural,
the cultural differences andbelieve it or not, social media.
Is a huge one and music.
I know no one wants to talkabout music and, but especially
(20:33):
in the black community, musicplays a huge role in, our
children's lives and how theyrespond or lack thereof to
situations that are happeningand what they're seeing now on
social media platforms, likeTikTok, like Instagram, that
this stuff is to a certainextent, glamorized on both ends.
(20:56):
Not just the, the, theman abusing the woman
or the boy abusing thegirl, but vice versa.
And it becomes this, thiskind of almost laughable
thing that this is just whatit's supposed to be like.
This is just, thisis just how it is.
And it's part ofrelationships and love.
, Dr.
Kelly, as we roundout the conversation.
(21:20):
Um, and then I'll give you anopportunity to, Anissa, but,
you know, what do you, fromutilizing your book, you know,
talk a little bit about yourbook, um, as it references
domestic violence, but, youknow, what message would you
give to those who are silentlysuffering for domestic violence?
(21:40):
that you and I first spoke aboutwas the Gaslighting Recovery
for Women, but I actuallykind of want to highlight
my first book even more sothe one I'm talking about.
Uh huh.
Yeah, because so what I wishI knew surviving and thriving
after an abusive relationshipwas co authored with a survivor
of DV who was in a very violent,dangerous, um, relationship.
(22:00):
relationship, and she gotout and is thriving today,
but one of the biggest thingsthat happened in her story
that is the most terrifyingis that she attempted to
leave the By herself withoutbackup and without a safety
plan put in place and itresulted in a violent outcome
(22:22):
and if she would have, couldhave had people having these
kind of conversations andshe had thought to herself,
maybe I do need to talk to asupport person and it's okay.
I don't need to carry theshame around this relationship.
I have a right for support.
And that.
On the converse, if you'rehaving someone come to you and
(22:44):
they're telling you they'rein this kind of relationship,
please do not judge them,please do not shame them, and
be holistically there for them,so that when they are ready
to leave, because if they tellyou they're in this kind of
relationship, they might notbe ready to leave right away.
And pressuring them andshaming them is not going
to make them leave sooner.
But letting them know, I amhere when you are ready, no
(23:05):
matter what, is very important.
And if she had even just hadthe cops go with her or her
cousin that she had spokenabout in the book, I don't
think it would have resulted inher almost being strangled to
death, which is what happened.
And so the biggest thing isknow that a safety plan, which
I have available on my websiteand it's available in the
book, a safety plan is crucial.
(23:27):
If you don't have a therapist.
You can go through it with apastor, a spiritual leader,
a family member that youfeel trusting to talk to,
or even sitting down withyourself and doing it, um,
but ideally support andreducing the shame around
having these conversationsand not pointing fingers.
Absolutely.
(23:47):
Anything you wantto add, Anissa?
Anissa.
No, I No, I think, I think Dr.
Kelly hit it.
I mean, for that.
when you're, when you're readyto make that move, it's the,
this most scariest thing thatyou can ever even imagine
because one, you alreadyhave this induced fear of
be really leaving, right?
(24:08):
Even though, you know,the situation is not
conducive to your life.
You still have this, tug ofwar with your heart with this
person that you're in lovewith for whatever reason.
So when you make that move,you've got to be really clear
that you're ready to go.
And the safety plan is there.
Number one, you, yougotta have a plan.
(24:29):
And I say all the time,pray and pack, you gotta get
That's a good way to put it.
Yeah, but you gotta,you gotta have a plan.
If you don't have a plan, mostof the time you're going to
fail because now you just, youknow, you have this argument
and now you just throw himstuff in a bag and you're ready
to go and you have no idea.
Where you're going,going, who you're
(24:49):
who you're going with, even ifyou have the financial means,
because most of the time whatI'm seeing with some of the
people that I work with isthat the person that they've
invested all this time with isalso controlling the finances.
So you don't have thecapabilities to just jump in
your car and move to anotherstate or grab the kids and go.
(25:11):
It's a little more complicated.
than that.
So you've got to first getto that point where you're
done when you really feellike your safety, your life
lives of your Children, ifthat's the case, is at risk.
And then you've got to startin the on the back end.
Generating your plan blame.
Yeah.
(25:31):
Pack and pray.
I like it.
I think too, like, Ijust want to clarify.
Again, I haven't been inthe situation, but, um,
you know, you're sayingmake sure your finances,
but I would think that.
If.
You would want yoursafety over the finances
piece like you couldWell, you gotta, you can't
have one without the other,or you're going to be back.
(25:54):
Are you going to endup back in that same
But aren't there resources likeyou could go to shelters, etc.
That'll help youI had a woman that she, she
was aware of all of that.
She did not feel comfortableenough, especially
with her children.
Even though, of course, herein Atlanta, we have, um,
shelters that are designatedjust for women and children.
(26:15):
But what, you know, when we,her and I were creating the
safety plan, what she was.
Finding out was that theydidn't have any space.
They were already at capacityand she was in a state where
she, she had absolutely nofamily, so she had no one really
to lean on to say, okay, meand the kids are gonna go stay
with you for a little while.
(26:36):
So she had to get a planin place to get out of the
state, because where we wereli where she was living,
there wasn't an option.
And you just don't wanna justpack and go to, to a shelter
because sometimes you're, you'reintroducing a whole other set
of problems that you're not.
ready for.
okay,I, I very much agree with Anissa
because, uh, financial abuseis one of the most impactful
(26:59):
to make someone feel, uh, alack of safety because it's
not just what am I going to dothis week or this month when
I get out, it's, but what amI going to do in the long run?
So if you're in a relationshipand the person you're with
is not Empowering you tohave your own account or
to have your own financial,uh, freedom and they're
making all the decisions.
(27:20):
It might look likethey're trying to just
be helpful, but if it.
also aligns with otherpotentially abusive behaviors.
That's a red flag andit's not always conducive.
You could have someone who evenhas a beloved pet that they
don't feel like they want toleave because they're afraid
that their abuser is goingto kill their pet, honestly.
(27:41):
And so there are agencies thatwill help, um, individuals
get out with their pets even.
So there's so many factorsat play with leaving.
That, um, I completely agreethat having, I mean, even
thinking about like a go bagis what it's often called,
um, and just having thatat the ready, um, and that
(28:04):
includes things like knowingwhat to do financially.
It's unfortunate, but it'sdefinitely a big part of Yeah.
well, listen, I've had anawesome time talking to you too.
I've learned a ton.
Um, I think this isan important topic.
I'd love to double clickon it on a larger scale.
So maybe we could talk aboutit at another, um, time.
(28:26):
Um, but I do want to makesure that everyone that is
listening today understandsa how to get in contact with
you and any, um, books thatyou have that will help you.
These women, or evenmen, we'll give you that
today, men, um, you know,be, um, better themselves
(28:47):
and empower themselves.
So last few, twominutes we have.
So give each of you a minute.
Well, as you know, um, I dohave a ebook called the faces of
trauma and a lot of time I didthat with the emphasis of people
don't recognize what trauma is.
They think that it onlyrelates to the trauma.
sexual abuse, but trauma couldbe difficulty with infertility
(29:11):
as you were speaking of Dr.
Kelly.
So it can, it is a gamutof things and people have
to understand that traumalooks different for everyone.
So what might be traumatizingfor me may not hit your
Richter scale of traumafor Melissa or Dr.
Kelly.
So I have that book.
And I also have, uh, fictionbooks that, where I took,
uh, Characters, excuseme, characters with trauma
(29:34):
to shoot, to give you thedetails of how that looks.
And of course, ultimately theoutcome of how they got over it.
And that book iscalled Invisible Lives.
And the third book is calledChasing Happily Ever After.
You can go to my website,which is blendedlikeuscoaching.
com.
And those books areavailable either on Barnes
and Noble or on Amazon.
(29:55):
Very good.
All right, Dr.
Kelly, one minute.
Okay, so I've got a couplebooks, but the two that apply
today, um, we've got the WhatI Wish I Knew, Surviving and
Thriving After an AbusiveRelationship, it's available
wherever books are sold,um, and it just came out on
Audible a couple months ago.
So it's actually myself andKendall Ann reading, and I
(30:17):
was so proud of her for doingthis because it was not easy.
I mean, she.
Really struggled getting throughretelling her story and the
emotion of it is in her voiceAnd so if you really want the
impact but also the abilityto listen to a story that if
you're in this situation Youmight not feel safe carrying
a book around that shows whatyou're reading about Having
(30:37):
it virtual or on Kindle, whichit's also available can be
a good resource Um, and thenthe other one is right up here
if people are watching, um,Gaslighting Recovery for Women.
And, I am so proud ofthis book, um, I'm just
thrilled with the peoplethat have been helped by it.
And it doesn't just talk aboutabusive relationships and how
to get out of a gaslighting,uh, relationship that is
(30:59):
romantic or interpersonal,but I also cover things like
societal gaslighting, um,Um, medical gaslighting,
uh, structural gaslighting.
So kind of like, what is it?
How do you identify it?
How do you thrive after?
Um, and then you can find meon my website, ameliakelly.
com.
That's Kelly with an EY and I'm pretty active.
(31:19):
I would say my Instagramis where I'm absolutely
the most active.
And then my podcast, thesensitivity doctors, which
I would love to chat withyou ladies on actually.
So we'll have to chatabout that after this.
Yes, I'd love to.
Okay, well, this has beenan awesome conversation.
We hope that you've gottensomething out of it.
(31:39):
And if you are in asituation where you are being
abused, please make surethat you're getting help.
But I think the after effectis once you've gotten out
of it, uh, we didn't talkabout it is you definitely
need therapy, right?
Or a coach to walk you,get you back healthy again.
And so you have two ladieshere who can help you do that.
(32:02):
But first and foremost,let's get you out of any
situation that you may be in.
Um, as always, I seeyou because I am you.
CONTENT WARNING!The following episode contains
a discussion about DomesticViolence that may be triggering
or upsetting for viewers.
Viewer Discretion Is Advised.
If you or someone you knowis in need of help call the
National Domestic ViolenceHotline 1-800-7-9-9-7-2-3-3
(00:20):
that's actually what the lovebombing is meant for as well,
is to collect information.
Because during lovebombing, they're just
listening to everything.
They're such good listeners,and they want to know
everything about you.
But it's also so that theycan employ those insecurities
at times where they're justtrying to help you improve.
Or be a better version ofyourself, or don't you love
(00:40):
me, those kind of acts.
Welcome to Girl Talk withMelissa Anne and today I
have some wonderful guests.
I have a trauma coachas well as a trauma
therapist with me today.
Both are familiar faces thathave been on the podcast.
But today we're going to talkabout a really serious topic.
(01:00):
I think, um, from my lens, I'veseen a lot of, I don't know
if I want to call it just Idon't, I want to say horseplay,
but it isn't horseplay, butpeople not being serious
enough about what I'm seeingas far as domestic violence.
It is almost like it is a thingthat's been being normalized.
(01:26):
And I wanted to have thisconversation today with
these two young ladies,just to help us understand,
okay, A, it is not normal.
B, what are someof the triggers?
And some of the things thatyou can do to get out of a
situation or not even getinto situation to begin with.
(01:46):
And so this while this is notmy wheelhouse, I've never been
in that type of situation.
I've watched it.
Um, my mother was, and wecould talk about that as,
you know, as we go throughthe, through the podcast.
But first, um, I want you to,to introduce yourselves briefly.
I know everyone, you know,if they're following us,
(02:08):
they've, they've seen you bothbefore, but briefly introduce
yourselves, tell us a littlebit about yourselves and we can
kick it off with some questions.
I'm Dr.
Kelly.
I've had the honor of talkingto Melissa before on Girl
Talk, and I'm a local, well,local to Raleigh, uh, trauma
focused therapist, yogateacher, meditation teacher,
(02:28):
author, podcaster, professor.
Basically, I'm just obsessedwith, uh, Self help.
Yes.
No, no, no.
Not superwoman.
I wasn't saying that.
No, I'm just, I'm reallypassionate about anything
dealing with, uh, mentalhealth and empowerment.
Like that's a big partfor me is that these
conversations should be meantto empower and, um, inform.
(02:50):
And so that's why Ilove that we're having
this conversation today.
Thank you for having me.
And we'll talk aboutyour book as well.
And Miss Anissa.
Hello people.
I am back.
Thank you for havingme again, Melissa.
Um, yes, I am a trauma coachand I've been a trauma coach
for about eight years now.
I am just as a passionate,or I want to say more
(03:13):
passionate than Dr.
Kelly when it comesto, um, working with
women in particular.
I do work with men, butI am passionate about
bringing more awarenesswithin the black community
to the importance of women.
Understanding generationaltrauma and how to move
past it because we haveto understand that our
(03:33):
experiences are a directcorrelation to the decisions
that we're making as adults.
And we have to stop that cycleof abuse at some point in time.
So yes, I ampassionate about that.
I am a, obviously a coach anda published author as well.
And I just loveworking with people.
awesome, well,let's dig right in.
(03:54):
So from your lens, I'm surethat you guys are work with
women or even men that havebeen in a DV situation.
What do you find are someof the misconceptions
surrounding domestic violence?
So, as far as one of thebiggest misconceptions that
I can gather would be thatit's easy to leave and that
(04:19):
people should just do it.
I think that understandingthe addictive nature of the
Uh, of a domestic violent,um, or the addictive nature
of an abusive relationship.
And what I mean by that is thatour brain becomes normalized
to this intermittent rewardthat can happen when you go
(04:40):
through the cycle of abuse.
So you have this mountingtension and then a situation
arises, whether it be physicalabuse, emotional abuse, verbal
abuse, and then there's thisresolving and then the repair.
And the repair is so.
So incredibly affirming for thebrain, the amount of dopamine
(05:00):
that is released during repairis enough to keep people bonded.
And so these traumabonds can happen.
And they're, it's almost likea slot machine where we get
more of that reward from notknowing when we're going to get
the positive outcome we want.
And so there's an actualaddictive nature to
these trauma bonds.
That's not even to saythe whole practicality of
(05:23):
finances, power, um, safety.
Children, um,access to services.
So we've got these two thingsat play with not having enough
supports for people to leaveand then not respecting the
addictive nature that theserelationships can have.
And I see where, you know,it's like anything else when
(05:43):
you say addiction, right?
Anything else, you know,alcohol, drugs, cigarettes,
whatever it is that's it'ssex, that's addicting.
But what I can't seem to, towrap my hands around or my, the
thought process around is thewhy, you know, a man or a woman
feels like they have the right.
(06:04):
That's it.
To, you know, layhands on someone
in any given situation.
I was, you know, many, manyyears ago, I was in, at a hotel
and I could hear someone beingabused and I called security,
but security, you know, theywouldn't knock on the door.
(06:24):
They wouldn't go in,they just, you know,
standing there listening.
I'm like, well, aren'tyou going to do something?
Mm hmm.
And you know, and theydidn't and it was just It
bothered me because I couldhear the the stress or the
distress in that young woman.
So what is it thatWhat's the why behind it
(06:45):
I think from what I'veexperienced with some of
my clients is that theytypically have come from an
environment or a past wherethey've seen it before.
And it becomes part of, Idon't want to say acceptable,
but it becomes For lack ofa better word, the norm of
what they've seen growing up.
So they think that thosestruggles or those bouts
(07:08):
of violence are acceptable.
And then they, they take it astep further and think that that
is the, the blueprint for futurerelationships because they
think that's the sign of love.
That's a sign of attention.
Um, and that, that, in that waythat abuse becomes normalized
and to a certain extent, whatI've seen in my experience
(07:30):
is when, when women get awayfrom that environment and then
they meet someone who is notlike that, that attraction to
that other individual is notas strong because they're not
displaying those type of habitsand behaviors that they've
been used to all their lives.
while.
I would agree absolutely withwhat Anissa is saying, and
(07:50):
it has to do also with ournervous systems, where if you
are, it's, in my first book,What I Wish I Knew, I talked
about the frog, how they, howthey, I don't know if anyone
knows how they kill frogs,but if you throw a frog into a
boiling pot, it jumps right out.
But if you put a frog intepid water and slowly raise
the temperature, it doesn'tknow what's happening, and
(08:11):
that's how they successfully.
You know, kill frogs Andit's kind of a similar thing
with our nervous system.
If abuse or behaviors thatare harmful are so outside the
norm, as you're saying, Anissa,something that you didn't grow
up around or that you weren'tnormalized to, it's shocking to
your system and you notice itand you're, this is not okay.
(08:31):
But if it's something thatyour nervous system has become
acclimated to, those samebells and whistles are not
going to go off as soon as.
They should, and that's wherethe, the trauma bond can come
in and get someone into thatcognitive dissonance where
you, you have morally onethought, I'm a strong woman
(08:53):
or I'm a strong man and Ideserve to be treated well.
But then, Your feelings arehow do I leave this person?
It's so it's so hardWhat are some of the like, And,
and I don't say men or womenbecause I know it's both, right?
So how do you, how do theyget women or how do they get
the, their victim pulled in?
(09:15):
Like they're not, youknow, automatically
starting at that level.
How do they get them pulled in?
Well, it normally starts verysubtle, um, and it kind of
escalates from there, so itmight be a simple disagreement.
Let's just say she puts on anoutfit that he may find too
revealing or too sexy, right?
(09:37):
And it will start off with avery strong urging of to take
those clothes off because of theattention, the outside attention
that you're going to get.
And then it'll build from thereto now becoming more intense.
And more angry and moreaggressive and then that
particular aggressive would thenstart picking apart their victim
(10:00):
per se and everything would bescrutinized and under the back
under the magnifying glass.
Both of you made such a goodpoint too about the the kind
of gradual, um increase and Ithink one of the things too to
consider is the mechanism oflove bombing that it serves a
purpose for bonding And lovebombing for your listeners
(10:24):
Probably heard this termbefore, but essentially it's
this influx of adoration andit could look like gift giving.
It can look likelots of attention.
And what happens in thesesituations is that you become.
Hooked on the other personmuch quicker than maybe
the relationship warrants.
(10:44):
And so when there's thesegradual pullbacks of love
and you want to work toget it back, that's when
that cycle of abuse starts.
And those, as Anissa wassaying, it's almost like an
experimentation at first.
If it's someone who's anarcissist or who's abusive,
they're going to see whatthey can get away with.
I was going to say, theytest, they test the waters.
(11:07):
Absolutely.
That is sick.
Like, you, you're, you're,you test in the waters
and see, okay, is sheactually the type of person
that I can get away with?
If not, I don't want to doa deal with that person.
I'll go about it like fishing.
Think about like going fishing.
Right.
You cast your, you castyour reel out, you've put
your, you put your baiton, but, and you're sitting
(11:30):
there and nothing's biting.
So what are you goingto obviously do?
You're going to moveto another spot.
So that's what they tend to do.
They move around until theyfind that spot, that perfect
storm of a woman who isalready struggling with her
own self value, her self worth.
And they monopolize on itbecause in their own way,
(11:50):
they feel like they'redoing you a service.
By correcting your wrongsor by bringing forth things
that you need to do to bebetter at or do differently.
You bring up such a good point,too, about, um, they will use,
and that's actually what thelove bombing is meant for as
well, is to collect information.
Because during lovebombing, they're just
listening to everything.
(12:11):
They're such good listeners,and they want to know
everything about you.
But it's also so that theycan employ those insecurities
at times where they're justtrying to help you improve.
Or be a better version ofyourself, or don't you love
me, those kind of acts.
So you bring up a reallygood point with that.
Um, and I, I want toreiterate one thing, because
(12:32):
we've been talking aboutwomen as opposed to men.
Research shows thatmen are equally abused
emotionally, so I want to makehmm.
that, you know, we're clearthat the, the stats are pretty
equal, um, between genders.
Physical abuse and sexual abusedoes err about a third more
towards women, which makesa lot of unfortunate sense.
(12:55):
Um, but that being said, thatphishing portion, I know you
asked us, like, how do wekeep this from happening?
I always encourage people tolean into disagreeability.
The more holisticallydisagreeable you are because
you are being your authenticself, the less likely the
hook is going to catch you.
(13:16):
Mm hmm.
Double click there.
You know, what aresome of the steps?
On how to be adisagreeable person.
And I'm asking this because,A, I understand that men
are probably in this poolof individuals too, but this
podcast is girl talk, so we'reYes.
focused on, on the women,unfortunately, sorry, men.
(13:37):
But, um, the, you know,understanding, like, how
do you be disagreeable?
Because in the, in society.
Let's be honest, women are kindof, you know, they want a mate
and there's not a large pool.
And so being disagreeabledoesn't make you someone
that is attractiveWell, that's the fine
(13:59):
line with dating.
You're already, when you'remeeting someone for the
first time, you're alreadysending your representative
anyway, because you're not,you've gotten your walls
up and you, you're going tolet your, you know, you're
going to let your wall downa little bit at a time.
But instead of beingpurposely disagreeable,
Make sure that you have, thatyour opinion is valued and
(14:19):
that is going to obviously,hopefully, if you're in tune
with yourself, now, if you'recoming from a perspective of a
woman who has had abuse in thepast or have other feelings of
low self esteem or insecurities,then, She's naturally going
to veer in the direction oftrying to be a pleaser because
she's trying to in this casehook that man But I I'm all
(14:42):
for being authentic and notpurposely disagreeable But
understanding that what you saydoes have value and go into it
with confidence that you knowI can take this or I can leave
this, you know I'm bringing justas much to the plate as he may
be bringing to the plate So wegot to figure out how, cause
we're both 50 50 in this, howthis relationship is going to
(15:02):
be beneficial for both of usand not just one or the other
I love the way you put thatbecause I think when I bring
up disagreeability with somefolks, they think it means just
being difficult, but it doesn't.
It means listening toyour authentic voice and
making sure that's thevoice that's speaking.
Mm So not the impersonator.
(15:23):
Transcripts providedespecially women where we
don't, We're not collectingbodies, meaning we're just
not meeting these random menand everyone we see we're
(15:46):
destined to be in this foreverafter relationship with them.
Right.
And just take thingsfor what they worth.
Look at, take facevalue for what it is.
And I don't like to use theword red flags cause it's
probably over overused.
But when you see those signsthat, uh, He said something
that I didn't like or,uh, he did something that
(16:08):
doesn't feel good to me.
You got to recognize thatand be prepared to run.
Don't always be on this tipof wanting to constantly
compromise with people whoaren't doing the same for you.
think that's a, you know,a valid, a valid response
as well because we ignorered flags because We want
(16:30):
to say, I could change him,Oh, we want a man.
we want a man, butI can't fix that.
You know, he yelled atme on the first date.
That's okay.
Yeah.
He was just We don't wanna thinkthat way though.
, that's dangerous for sure.
I can know for me personallywith my trauma, I had a string
(16:50):
of bad relationships and whatI found was That crazy enough,
I tended to always go into itwhere I, I want to fix them.
I want to make them better.
And I was putting up with awhole bunch of shit that was
never meant to be a part of mystory, but because of my trauma
(17:12):
and I didn't want anyone to feelwhat I felt, I overcompensated
in my relationships bygiving too much of a Vanessa
and not and ignoring thetelltale signs that this
might not be the guy for you.
So I would make up excuses, youknow, like you said, if he, if
he yelled at me or if he was,you know, maybe grab my arm a
(17:34):
little tighter than what I wouldbe comfortable with, well, you
know, he had a bad day at workor, you know, money is tight or,
you know, all these differentscenarios that he didn't even
have to give, give me an excuse.
I gave him excuse often, youknow, off the job because I
wanted to, fix it.
(17:55):
I think to, I don't know,and I'll go back to what
my original statement is.
Um, and I'll caveat it withthis, like my mother was a
product of domestic violence.
Um, I, I saw a few fights, butmy siblings had the brunt of it.
Um, but her, she told methat when she got married.
(18:20):
Her mother told her she wenthome to her mother because
my dad was hitting her.
And her mother was like, that'swhat men do go back home.
Oh gosh.
So, you know, that wasprobably in, you know,
in the forties, right?
And I'm wondering, youknow, it probably was normal
(18:42):
back then that women hadto be subservient, but
I'm seeing a shift now.
Where it just seems likethese men think it's okay to
put hands on somebody's childLike and it is bothering me
What do you guysthink the shift is?
So you're asking ifinstead of having hands
(19:04):
on partners it's hands onNo, no, no i'm saying
Is starting You'reyou're you're hitting a woman.
That's some that'ssomebody's baby.
You know i'm saying that.
Yeah Okay.
Thank you.
Okay um, well, I mean I Idon't know if it's shifting
towards it being okay.
I think that I in myopinion, I think it's being
(19:26):
highlighted more I thinksomething that was happening
behind closed doors You umIs coming out behind those
doors a little bit more andmore people, I mean, I think
about the Me Too movementfor instance, more people
are saying, guess what, thishas been happening all along
and we've been ignoring it.
Anissa, going a differentdirection only because
(19:46):
What this This is what i'mseeing now because I have two
daughters that are teenagersare in high school And i'm
seeing firsthand As what youwere referring to melissa this I
don't know if the word shift isthe right word where everything
now is happening earlierthan what we grew up seeing.
So for example, now youhave high school boys that
(20:11):
will, will physically abusetheir girlfriends, verbally
abuse their girlfriends.
And what I've seen is thecorrelation with cultural,
the cultural differences andbelieve it or not, social media.
Is a huge one and music.
I know no one wants to talkabout music and, but especially
(20:33):
in the black community, musicplays a huge role in, our
children's lives and how theyrespond or lack thereof to
situations that are happeningand what they're seeing now on
social media platforms, likeTikTok, like Instagram, that
this stuff is to a certainextent, glamorized on both ends.
(20:56):
Not just the, the, theman abusing the woman
or the boy abusing thegirl, but vice versa.
And it becomes this, thiskind of almost laughable
thing that this is just whatit's supposed to be like.
This is just, thisis just how it is.
And it's part ofrelationships and love.
, Dr.
Kelly, as we roundout the conversation.
(21:20):
Um, and then I'll give you anopportunity to, Anissa, but,
you know, what do you, fromutilizing your book, you know,
talk a little bit about yourbook, um, as it references
domestic violence, but, youknow, what message would you
give to those who are silentlysuffering for domestic violence?
(21:40):
that you and I first spoke aboutwas the Gaslighting Recovery
for Women, but I actuallykind of want to highlight
my first book even more sothe one I'm talking about.
Uh huh.
Yeah, because so what I wishI knew surviving and thriving
after an abusive relationshipwas co authored with a survivor
of DV who was in a very violent,dangerous, um, relationship.
(22:00):
relationship, and she gotout and is thriving today,
but one of the biggest thingsthat happened in her story
that is the most terrifyingis that she attempted to
leave the By herself withoutbackup and without a safety
plan put in place and itresulted in a violent outcome
(22:22):
and if she would have, couldhave had people having these
kind of conversations andshe had thought to herself,
maybe I do need to talk to asupport person and it's okay.
I don't need to carry theshame around this relationship.
I have a right for support.
And that.
On the converse, if you'rehaving someone come to you and
(22:44):
they're telling you they'rein this kind of relationship,
please do not judge them,please do not shame them, and
be holistically there for them,so that when they are ready
to leave, because if they tellyou they're in this kind of
relationship, they might notbe ready to leave right away.
And pressuring them andshaming them is not going
to make them leave sooner.
But letting them know, I amhere when you are ready, no
(23:05):
matter what, is very important.
And if she had even just hadthe cops go with her or her
cousin that she had spokenabout in the book, I don't
think it would have resulted inher almost being strangled to
death, which is what happened.
And so the biggest thing isknow that a safety plan, which
I have available on my websiteand it's available in the
book, a safety plan is crucial.
(23:27):
If you don't have a therapist.
You can go through it with apastor, a spiritual leader,
a family member that youfeel trusting to talk to,
or even sitting down withyourself and doing it, um,
but ideally support andreducing the shame around
having these conversationsand not pointing fingers.
Absolutely.
(23:47):
Anything you wantto add, Anissa?
Anissa.
No, I No, I think, I think Dr.
Kelly hit it.
I mean, for that.
when you're, when you're readyto make that move, it's the,
this most scariest thing thatyou can ever even imagine
because one, you alreadyhave this induced fear of
be really leaving, right?
(24:08):
Even though, you know,the situation is not
conducive to your life.
You still have this, tug ofwar with your heart with this
person that you're in lovewith for whatever reason.
So when you make that move,you've got to be really clear
that you're ready to go.
And the safety plan is there.
Number one, you, yougotta have a plan.
(24:29):
And I say all the time,pray and pack, you gotta get
That's a good way to put it.
Yeah, but you gotta,you gotta have a plan.
If you don't have a plan, mostof the time you're going to
fail because now you just, youknow, you have this argument
and now you just throw himstuff in a bag and you're ready
to go and you have no idea.
Where you're going,going, who you're
(24:49):
who you're going with, even ifyou have the financial means,
because most of the time whatI'm seeing with some of the
people that I work with isthat the person that they've
invested all this time with isalso controlling the finances.
So you don't have thecapabilities to just jump in
your car and move to anotherstate or grab the kids and go.
(25:11):
It's a little more complicated.
than that.
So you've got to first getto that point where you're
done when you really feellike your safety, your life
lives of your Children, ifthat's the case, is at risk.
And then you've got to startin the on the back end.
Generating your plan blame.
Yeah.
(25:31):
Pack and pray.
I like it.
I think too, like, Ijust want to clarify.
Again, I haven't been inthe situation, but, um,
you know, you're sayingmake sure your finances,
but I would think that.
If.
You would want yoursafety over the finances
piece like you couldWell, you gotta, you can't
have one without the other,or you're going to be back.
(25:54):
Are you going to endup back in that same
But aren't there resources likeyou could go to shelters, etc.
That'll help youI had a woman that she, she
was aware of all of that.
She did not feel comfortableenough, especially
with her children.
Even though, of course, herein Atlanta, we have, um,
shelters that are designatedjust for women and children.
(26:15):
But what, you know, when we,her and I were creating the
safety plan, what she was.
Finding out was that theydidn't have any space.
They were already at capacityand she was in a state where
she, she had absolutely nofamily, so she had no one really
to lean on to say, okay, meand the kids are gonna go stay
with you for a little while.
(26:36):
So she had to get a planin place to get out of the
state, because where we wereli where she was living,
there wasn't an option.
And you just don't wanna justpack and go to, to a shelter
because sometimes you're, you'reintroducing a whole other set
of problems that you're not.
ready for.
okay,I, I very much agree with Anissa
because, uh, financial abuseis one of the most impactful
(26:59):
to make someone feel, uh, alack of safety because it's
not just what am I going to dothis week or this month when
I get out, it's, but what amI going to do in the long run?
So if you're in a relationshipand the person you're with
is not Empowering you tohave your own account or
to have your own financial,uh, freedom and they're
making all the decisions.
(27:20):
It might look likethey're trying to just
be helpful, but if it.
also aligns with otherpotentially abusive behaviors.
That's a red flag andit's not always conducive.
You could have someone who evenhas a beloved pet that they
don't feel like they want toleave because they're afraid
that their abuser is goingto kill their pet, honestly.
(27:41):
And so there are agencies thatwill help, um, individuals
get out with their pets even.
So there's so many factorsat play with leaving.
That, um, I completely agreethat having, I mean, even
thinking about like a go bagis what it's often called,
um, and just having thatat the ready, um, and that
(28:04):
includes things like knowingwhat to do financially.
It's unfortunate, but it'sdefinitely a big part of Yeah.
well, listen, I've had anawesome time talking to you too.
I've learned a ton.
Um, I think this isan important topic.
I'd love to double clickon it on a larger scale.
So maybe we could talk aboutit at another, um, time.
(28:26):
Um, but I do want to makesure that everyone that is
listening today understandsa how to get in contact with
you and any, um, books thatyou have that will help you.
These women, or evenmen, we'll give you that
today, men, um, you know,be, um, better themselves
(28:47):
and empower themselves.
So last few, twominutes we have.
So give each of you a minute.
Well, as you know, um, I dohave a ebook called the faces of
trauma and a lot of time I didthat with the emphasis of people
don't recognize what trauma is.
They think that it onlyrelates to the trauma.
sexual abuse, but trauma couldbe difficulty with infertility
(29:11):
as you were speaking of Dr.
Kelly.
So it can, it is a gamutof things and people have
to understand that traumalooks different for everyone.
So what might be traumatizingfor me may not hit your
Richter scale of traumafor Melissa or Dr.
Kelly.
So I have that book.
And I also have, uh, fictionbooks that, where I took,
uh, Characters, excuseme, characters with trauma
(29:34):
to shoot, to give you thedetails of how that looks.
And of course, ultimately theoutcome of how they got over it.
And that book iscalled Invisible Lives.
And the third book is calledChasing Happily Ever After.
You can go to my website,which is blendedlikeuscoaching.
com.
And those books areavailable either on Barnes
and Noble or on Amazon.
(29:55):
Very good.
All right, Dr.
Kelly, one minute.
Okay, so I've got a couplebooks, but the two that apply
today, um, we've got the WhatI Wish I Knew, Surviving and
Thriving After an AbusiveRelationship, it's available
wherever books are sold,um, and it just came out on
Audible a couple months ago.
So it's actually myself andKendall Ann reading, and I
(30:17):
was so proud of her for doingthis because it was not easy.
I mean, she.
Really struggled getting throughretelling her story and the
emotion of it is in her voiceAnd so if you really want the
impact but also the abilityto listen to a story that if
you're in this situation Youmight not feel safe carrying
a book around that shows whatyou're reading about Having
(30:37):
it virtual or on Kindle, whichit's also available can be
a good resource Um, and thenthe other one is right up here
if people are watching, um,Gaslighting Recovery for Women.
And, I am so proud ofthis book, um, I'm just
thrilled with the peoplethat have been helped by it.
And it doesn't just talk aboutabusive relationships and how
to get out of a gaslighting,uh, relationship that is
(30:59):
romantic or interpersonal,but I also cover things like
societal gaslighting, um,Um, medical gaslighting,
uh, structural gaslighting.
So kind of like, what is it?
How do you identify it?
How do you thrive after?
Um, and then you can find meon my website, ameliakelly.
com.
That's Kelly with an EY and I'm pretty active.
(31:19):
I would say my Instagramis where I'm absolutely
the most active.
And then my podcast, thesensitivity doctors, which
I would love to chat withyou ladies on actually.
So we'll have to chatabout that after this.
Yes, I'd love to.
Okay, well, this has beenan awesome conversation.
We hope that you've gottensomething out of it.
(31:39):
And if you are in asituation where you are being
abused, please make surethat you're getting help.
But I think the after effectis once you've gotten out
of it, uh, we didn't talkabout it is you definitely
need therapy, right?
Or a coach to walk you,get you back healthy again.
And so you have two ladieshere who can help you do that.
(32:02):
But first and foremost,let's get you out of any
situation that you may be in.
Um, as always, I seeyou because I am you.
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