December 10, 2025 • 29 mins
We’re checking our list twice this week as Girls Gone Hallmark dives into She’s Making a List, a movie where Christmas spirit meets corporate compliance in the cutest possible way. When a Naughty-or-Nice inspector shows up to evaluate a little girl’s holiday standing, she definitely isn’t expecting to fall head-over-snowboots for the girl’s widowed dad… or to start questioning every rule in her meticulously color-coded handbook. Will love win out over protocol, or is this one destined for the “nice try” pile? Stars Lacey Chabert and Andrew Walker.
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is a bramble Jam podcast. Welcome to Girls Gone Hallmark,
(00:24):
a Hallmark review podcast. I'm Megan and I'm a longtime
Hallmark fan. I'm Wendy, I'm a former Hallmark hater. On
today's episode, we will be discussing She's Making a List,
which originally premiered on the Hallmark Channel on Saturday, December sixth,
and is currently available to stream on Hallmark Plus. We
have been loving the reviews. You're leaving four Girls Gone
(00:46):
Hallmark in your favorite podcast app and I would like
to read a quick review to show you just how
easy it is to make our day and support the podcast.
Ryan says, love this podcast so much. Megan and Wendy
are amazing and hilarious. Definitely my favorite Hallmark podcast of
all hilarious. Every time someone tells us we're funny, We're like,
(01:09):
are we? I know? Wow, I'll take it. Wow. What
a Christmas miracle? That feels like a completely free present exactly.
I love that you're looking at me for what's next. Hey,
if you want to come join our Facebook group where
I think Ryan is a member, We're at Girls Gone
(01:31):
Hallmark and Facebook groups. Question for you, have you recovered
from Mary Thanksgiving weekend, I feel like, no, we haven't
even gotten a break. We're just like diving back in.
First of all, I would like to say, I don't
think my Golden Girls meme on Instagram got enough love
for as funny as I thought. Oh it landed for
me tell our stories? Yeah for funny, right, yes, thank you,
(01:55):
thank you. I needed that. No, I am fully underwater.
Are in every area of my life. So do not
let the fact that we are churning out episodes fast
and furious fool you. We are not, okay. I think
you can hear that in the Christmas at cat Nip Cafe.
Oh that's fully off the rails. Yeah, yeah, but here
(02:18):
we are again. We're back. I gotta tell you. Look
at the calendar. I'm like, we're in the home stretch.
It's happening. It's almost done. But the rest of my
life is also falling apart. So, you know, is anybody
getting a Christmas gift this year? Probably not. The floor
of my closet is just bags and bags of gifts. Great,
I'm gonna go rate it. So I think some gifts
(02:40):
for my family, some of them, many of them are
still in like the shipping packages, like they haven't even
been It's only December eighth. I know, but as you
and I discussed, based on my own personal scheduling, I
really am about ten days left. Like the last week
is fully off limits to me for any Christmas preps.
So ill it's thinking the other day while I was
(03:02):
in my closets where I do my best thinking, and
I was thinking, we really need to do what we
can to take the post Christmas through New Year's time
off you and I, You and I, even though new
episodes will be dropping, Yeah, we need to be ahead
of the game and we'll still be doing stuff. Yeah,
(03:25):
like the bracket. Yeah, if you didn't hear, we're gonna
do the bracket. I don't know when yet. I haven't
looked at the calendar. Maybe when we're done recording this episode,
we'll look at the calendar. That's a good idea exactly
what we're doing. Yeah, Because I actually was the other
day thinking, I had like this vision of a reel
in my head, be like coming December thirty, I don't know, Yeah, anyway,
(03:46):
like a hype video. Yes, yeah, yeah, bracket coming soon. Well,
let's talk. She's making a list, which I need to
do as well, with a synopsis A naughty or nice
inspector evaluating a girls Christmas status falls for her widowed father,
making her question the strict rules of her consulting firm
(04:06):
and forcing her to choose between protocol and love. She's
making a list. Was directed by Stacy and Harding. This
marks Stacy's sixteenth directing credit, and she's known for Hallmark
gems like Round and Round and Mystery One on One,
Deadly History. Some other titles that don't get talked about
enough are Love Classified and Christmas Sale. Remember Christmas Sale?
You know is? I had kind of forgotten about it?
(04:28):
But yes, that father Doughter storyline hit hard That's a
good movie. It does not get talked about, No, it
does not. Is it from twenty twenty twenty twenty one?
Like around that time? Right early? But I don't think
twenty I don't think twenty twenty, twenty twenty one, twenty
twenty two. Yeah. Maybe The script comes from Joey de Paolo, who,
(04:49):
according to IMDb, has only three writing credits, but Joey
is credited with writing Hallmarks and American and Austin from
twenty twenty four. This marks his second Hallmarks green Play.
I did do a little googling because when I went
to IMDb and I saw like he only had like
three writing credits, I was like, something's not adding up here.
This is kind of a big movie for like a
(05:12):
new new writer. So then I found he had a
website and then he did American in Austin, but it
wasn't on IMDb. Yes, hey, Joey, update your eye, get
your people on that. Lacy Shabert stars is Isabelle. She
also serves as executive producer on this movie. We last
saw Lacey and Hall at the Halloween, and she will
star in the forthcoming Lost in Paradise opposite Ian Harding.
(05:35):
In January twenty twenty six. Andrew Walker co stars as Jason.
This makes movie number five this year for Andrew, The
Reluctant Royal Adventures in Love and Birding, Three Wisest Men
and Parents in Holiday Touchdown, A Bill's Love Story five
five titles for This Man, Busy Man, Caden's Compton Placed Charlie.
(05:56):
This is her fourth Hallmark appearance and she has been
seen the movie movies like an Easter Bloom and Sweeter
Than Chocolate. Ella Sandro Miro plays Giuseppe with forty nine
acting credits. We last saw him in The Santa Class
as Blaze. Steve Basic appears as Rudolph. We last saw
Steve on Hallmark Plus in Back to Back Aurora t
Garden Mysteries from twenty twenty four. Larisa Tronco plays Heidi
(06:19):
with twenty eight acting credits. Larisa has appeared in other
Hallmark movies like Private, Princess Christmas and Love Classified Mystery.
Wano One fans know her as Lacey Daniels from the
first two movies. Bjay Harrison plays Wanda. She has a
whopping one hundred forty nine acting credits. We last saw
her on Hallmark in Holidays. Antonio Coyone plays Oscar Now
(06:43):
side note. When Antonio showed up in this movie, did
you immediately think of Friend of the Show Holly? I did.
Holly is an Antonio super fan. I'm pretty sure she
is the one who coined the term Coyone fans for
his fan Instagram account. Love That. Antonio has forty nine
acting credits and last appeared in Christmas Under the Lights
(07:04):
and The Real West, both in twenty twenty four. Kurt
Long appears as the Santa impersonator. He might look familiar
to you, as he's appeared recently in Three Wisest Men
and Adventures in Love and Burning. Dax Spellinger plays Santa.
He has thirty five acting credits, with roles in North
By North Pole, A dial S Mystery, and dial S
(07:27):
for Santa. That's so interesting. Those titles are so similar,
And when I was putting this, I was like, did
he play Santa and all those movies? Those movies are
not Hallmark movies, but definitely has our strong Santa Santa vibes. Yep,
Let's take a quick break and come back with our
first impressions. Hey, Wendy, what is your first impression of
(07:55):
She's making a list. I'm not saying I googled skin
Mason for my husband after this movie. But I'm also
not not saying that if you guys don't know what
skin Mason is, maybe I just get served so many
skin Mason ads because I'm in the Hallmark world. Skin
Mason is owned by Andrew Walker, which is like a
skincare line. It's a little confusing. I don't know if
(08:16):
it's for men only or for it's for men and
women only, but I thought Andrew really good in this movie,
and I was like, does my husband need those products?
Did he have work done? Or is it skin Mason
And maybe it's skid Mason. I don't know. I'm into it.
My first impression is I spent the entire movie waiting
for the Fred Klaus style reveal of there are no
naughty kids, and I was not disappointed. You lost me
(08:37):
at Fred Claus. Well, that's that. Is that the tam
Allan movie. No no, no, no, no, no, no, no no no.
Put some respect on Vince Vaughn's name. Oh wow, I
do love Vince Vaughn. I recently saw Vince Vaughn in
something and he looked really good. Anyway, Fred Klaus, I
have watched too many Christmas movie Everything is blending together
(09:00):
for me right now. Let me let me, let's get
let me tell you about it. Please unpackage for me.
Fred Klaus is the story of Fred Klaus, who is
the brother of Santa Claus. Okay, Saint Nicholas. Vince Vaughan
plays the brother and they have a troubled relationship because
of course Saint Nicholas is the golden child MM and
always was. Well, he needs money from his brother his
(09:21):
father's like, I'll give it to you, but you got
to come help me out of the North Pole. He
goes to the North Pole. He happens to be there
while the Inspector is there, who is played by Kevin Spacey,
trying to get the North Pole shut down. Double V
makes a choice. He's working the naughty and Nice list,
got It. He's stamping the kids naughty nice, naughty nice.
And then he has this realization based on his own
(09:44):
childhood where he was the troubled brother. And he also
has a relationship with a young kid named Slam who's
kind of going through it. Ends up in a group
home and he's like, there's no naughty kids. Every kid
deserves a gift at present at Christmas. So you're saying
that this is similar to that movie inspired by Got It.
I really love the reveal the no naughty Kids. It's
(10:07):
a very silly movie, but there's a very sweet Christmas
morning montage at the end. Huh. Fred Claus also has
the best North Pole I think I've seen in a
Christmas movie. Oh really? How so, it's just incredibly well done.
The little north Pole town. It looks cute, it's cute,
(10:27):
it's not in Delaware. It's not in Delaware. Okay, can
we talk about what we liked about this movie? I
have a Philly Mega didn't like this movie. Guys, Oh
I did like this movie. You should see my list
of likes. I have a good long list of likes.
Can I start. It's a little bit piggybacking off of
what you just talked about with the Fred Klaus. My
first like is that it's telling us that life isn't
(10:50):
naughty or nice, that it is shades of gray, that
people are murky and messy, and kids behave for certain reasons,
and adults overreact for certain reasons, and life is not tidy.
I was very drawn to this message. I agree with
this message. I think it's interesting how they wove this
(11:16):
like algorithm storyline into this thing of like, oh, you're
either this or that. You can't be in the middle,
Like there's no explanation for why people do things. You're
either bad or good. I just thought that was an
interesting story to tell. Yeah, did you like heid how
she was like all in on clearing the name of
(11:37):
this kid who Isabelle was convinced had killed all the
other plants. But she was like I'm convinced what he
was actually doing here is trying to fertilize them. Right, Like,
She's like, we got to dig deeper, we got to
look for more. We can't just look for the evidence
that confirms our suspicions about these kids, right. I kind
of thought it was an interesting message because I think
(12:00):
right now in our lives, it's very much like, oh,
you support that, well, then you're in that box. Oh
you like that, will you're in that box? Like you know,
it's very dividing. I just thought there was a deeper
message here. Yes, a naughty act doesn't make someone a
(12:20):
naughty person, right in every case, in every case. I also,
if I can just continue on real quick, Isabelle's monologue
of Santa at the end, I thought was really interesting.
Her whole speech about labeling kids as naughty doesn't make
them nicer, it creates wounded adults. I thought it was
honestly compelling. See how it ties back to your Fred
(12:44):
Claus nice example. Maybe it's also because you and I
are both parents of almost adult children, and I think
we can like look at it with some perspective that
kids do things because you know they're acting out. Oh
and they're learning. Like, I just thought that was so compassionate.
(13:05):
Like this whole monologue, how she's talking about kids are
learning and they need adults not to shame them on
these things. They need the adults to help guide them. Yeah.
I just thought, Wow, that's an interesting theme that we're
exploring here. Call Mark. I do think it's an interesting thing.
I think this movie stepped outside of the norm in
(13:25):
a lot of ways, but there's a lot of you
need choices. I really enjoyed the opening animation. Oh yeah,
me too, Lazy's voiceover Sam explaining the premise, explaining the job,
who she is, just the kind of a lightwash of
her personal history as well. What about her breaking the
fourth wa I love it. Yeah. It gives this movie
like we're letting you in on this secret. Yes, we're
(13:48):
taking you behind the scenes. Yeah, I agree, And she
does it really well. Here's a piece of the story
that I loved. Charlie is talking to her dad and
she says, one year, Santa's handwriting change yes, And in
that moment I thought, oh, that's because she lost her mom.
Then the reveal that it was because Santa had deemed
(14:10):
her naughty and left her coal and dad had stepped
in to play the role of Santa so that she
wouldn't know. I just was like blown away by that choice.
I agree. I thought that was such That scene between
Andrew Walker and that child actress Cadence was really good.
(14:30):
His reaction to her, like he was like, oh, like
he kind of thought he was caught by her too,
and you know, she knows like something's up, Like I
felt like she knew something was up. I really really
liked that scene. I'm going to tell you there was
a scene where Jason reveals to Isabelle that he's the
(14:51):
one who had changed all the stuff about you know,
the Santa stuff. I had this like epiphany while I'm
watching this. This movie is treating Santa as truth, like
we have to totally we're living in their world, that
Santa is this real person who gives coal or gives gifts. Yes,
And I just thought that was really interesting, Like I
(15:11):
don't feel like a lot of movies do that. Am
I crazy? No, you're not crazy, but you're also not
a Christmas movie person. Yeah? True either. There are a
lot of movies like Fred Klaus, like The Santa Claus
that treat Santa like truth. Yeah, maybe I just haven't
really noticed it on Hallmark. You're right, I don't watch
a lot of Christmas movies, so for as many Christmas
(15:33):
movies as we do, we don't always do a lot
of Santa. Right. So you know we had the Santa
class last year with the Magical Santa. Yeah, regardless, I
liked the way they handled the truth about Santa. Yeah,
it's like the Secret of Santa, right. Yeah, it was
a really weird moment for me while watching. I was like, Oh,
(15:54):
we live in this world where Santa is real, Okay,
and then I just moved on with it. Anyway, that's
a me thing. Well, you talked about the character of
Charlie and the actress Cadence. I mean, what pitch perfect casting.
I enjoyed Charlie so much as this sassy preteen and
the way she just gives it to Isabelle. I think
(16:15):
her banter with Andrew and her banter with Lacy, I
really liked her. Now I need to know what you thought.
As the resident child hater of the team, I thought
this character arc of Charlie being a bad kid was
actually quite fascinating because homework rarely lets a child be messy.
(16:40):
In this sort of way. We have her like stealing money.
She does not love dad's new love life that's happening.
She's acting out because of grief. I thought it was
all really good, and this girl can act. She was great. Yeah,
you know, I'm notoriously don't love kids in movies. I
(17:04):
really liked this kid a lot. Now let me ask
you Andrew. His character Jason in this movie is a
food critic who now consults with restaurants to make them better.
I was like, is this a job at us? But yeah,
that's exactly what I thought that. That was exactly my question. Yeah,
did they make you rethink? I was like, are is
this us? That is that what we're doing? Is this
effing play about us? What's that from? I don't euphore you. Oh,
(17:28):
I've never seen that. I just noticed a TikTok sound. Yeah.
I thought about that for a hot second. But I
don't think we've ever This isn't a takedown. Our podcast
is not a takedown podcast. No, not by any means.
But it did make me pause when he was like, oh,
I used to be a food critic and I would
write bad reviews, Like oh, that's not us. But it
(17:50):
did make me pause for a minute. It didn't make
me pause. I want to talk about Jason and Isabelle
for a second. I loved how Lacey leaned into Isabelle's
like flashes of being taken off guard by Jason's good looks,
like especially when they first meet, like she does it
really well. They're tiny beats. There's like a little bit
of a double take, flustered, a little bit of a
(18:10):
stutter like it felt real and funny. Hmmm. I thought
their chemistry was super believable. Would you think of all
of her very limited disguises, She's like, I'm gonna put
on these glasses and now I am invisible. It wasn't
too hygieninxy for me, if that's what you're suggesting. No,
I wasn't. I just thought it was so funny. She's like,
I'm gonna wash this window and literally stare in at
(18:33):
them and nobody's going to see me. I mean, she
did walk around like she was invisible. She's not. Well,
I didn't hate it, you know what I did love.
Did you notice that the entire color palette for her
was like Kelly Christmas, Kelly green, Like everything she wasn't
always in green, but a majority of it was green. Yeah,
(18:55):
it was so esthetically pleasing for me to look at.
Did you was there any point at which you wondered
if Lacey's character and the team of people she worked
with were more magical than corporate Oh yeah, I think
I assumed that, But it feels like they're just people
who have contracted with Santa. Yeah. Kind of an interesting take,
(19:18):
right it is? I have one final like, oh, two
final likes. The opening scene where the two kids lay
Lacey Isabella is watching the two kids that are like
either playing with like a baseball or snowballs, I don't know, whatever,
and one kid throws it up in the air and
the other kid is kind of slow motion of like
watching the thing. Did this not remind you of Ralphie
(19:38):
from a Christmas Story where he's like, oh fudge. Nope,
because I hate that movie and refuse to watch it.
Really can't stand it makes me physically uncomfortable. Why everything
about it? It's not on your absolutely watch list. No,
although my husband likes the sequel, oh, he also hates
the first movie. Yes, it's so weird that you guys
(20:01):
both don't like the first movie. I also don't like
it's a wonderful life. Oh, I don't think I've ever
seen that one. It's depressing. I had thirty seconds of
hope at the end of the movie. The rest of
the movie is sad and depressing like real life. Yeah.
Oh okay, Well, I thought that first scene reminded me
a lot of a Christmas story. And finally, my last
thing I liked. I like it at the end where
(20:23):
our two toxic masculinity guys get their gifts because they're
on the makeup list. You know, it was a nice payoff. Yeah,
close that loop there, their inner child was touched. Yes, well,
let's talk wishes. Okay, I could have used some more
detail about Isabel's past. Agree, I think we could have
(20:45):
flashed her character out a little bit more. You know,
she says, there's me with my suitcase, so like she
lost her parents? Is she a foster child? Where did
she spend her time? What's going on there? You know,
what is the job that she does now? Her way
of like neatly categorizing things in a world that was
(21:05):
not neatly categorized for her as a child's I just
I could have used more. We just had hints of it. Well,
I could totally project onto that if I may, she
falls into this line of, like, like you said, neatly
categorizing things, maybe because her childhood was chaos. Sure right,
I mean that's a what I have learned in therapy
(21:25):
personally about myself. I'm gonna be cynical twice first of
my wishes. And then I did see that what do
we think about the amount of surveillance we're doing on
these children? Like they got straight up video that they
can go back and red check. Well, it's pretend and
ethically questionable. It is pretend, but they go like fire
(21:45):
it up. They're like, pull up the video. It walks
a line for me that these adults are watching children
all the time. It's all this video footage of children.
There's nobody who's going it's pretend. Okay. While I really
enjoy Lacey and Andrew in this movie, they are both
(22:07):
really good at what they do. I liked Isabelle, I
liked Jason. I think they make a nice team in
terms of working towards a resolution that works for Charlie.
But I like the misfriends and partners but not in
a romance. Really, I enjoyed it good. I enjoyed it.
(22:30):
There was never a part of me I was like, no,
this doesn't work. Who do you like to see her with? Otherwise?
I don't know who do you like to see him
with otherwise? Ashley Williams, Him and Ashley Williams. When were
they ever in anything to in your favorite freaking movie
Jingle Bell Run? Oh yes, that's right. I was gonna
say Rachel Boston because they were in that Birdie. Oh yeah,
(22:51):
really good in that movie. They were great too. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
I hear you, I hear you know. Sometimes I guess
like Homerk's like, we gotta put our two heavy hitters together.
Let's let's do that well. And I think I think
that works actually for this movie, because sometimes I'm like, uh,
you don't know. I thought they were great together, but
I didn't think it was like hot, fiery, steamy chemistry. Damn,
(23:11):
I'm fully having flashbacks to that dance scene in Jingle
Bell Run. Jingle War Runs hot. Yeah, you're right, so
is Adventures on Love and Burding. You're right, this isn't hot,
which is okay. Like I'm not hot and steamy either,
so but sometimes I want that in my entertainment yeah, Okay,
I buy what you're putting down. Okay, what did you
(23:34):
wish for? I wish the pacing had been a tiny
bit snappier. I felt like the movie was just a
hair slow. It's not enough to like make me turn
to my phone. Mm. But I'm not exactly sure if
it was the pacin or the structure or just how
much like they're trying to build out this world. Yes,
(23:58):
it's a lot of details, and like you like, we
missed the details of Isabelle's backstory, right, so maybe it
just wasn't like it didn't fully come together in that way.
My only other wish is just Seppi at the top
of the movie with the insults when he when he's
presenting the cookies to Isabelle and Heidi and he's like,
(24:21):
this one looks like you all scoalty face, and I
was like, that is rude, But it does close the circle.
Like he is a he was a naughty kid, he's
a not so great adult, right, and he gets his
just Seppi cookiees right, But like I thought, oh, I
took it personally. I thought it was funny, but also
(24:41):
I was like, yike, like are we talking about somebody's
is just naffing play about us. Look as someone who
does not have a pleasant resting face, I dug it
personally got it. That's it for my wishes. Let's talk.
Did you see that I have two? Okay, they're just
(25:02):
they're not true. Did you see that's one? Is a question.
Charlie and Jason go to pick out the ugliest tree,
and I have to ask you, do you assign human
emotions to inanimate objects? Yeah? Yeah, So do you feel
bad for tree if you were? I know you have
an artificial tree, but if you were to go pick
out a tree, do you feel bad about like the
(25:24):
ones that are left behind? Yeah? Yeah. When I think
about like December twenty third and there's still trees in
a tree lot that nothing happened, that makes me very sad. Yeah,
they have a loser lives to raw on a home
depot parking. Yeah, it's kind of sad, it is. I mean,
I have that feeling too. We were decorating our Christmas
tree with my daughter and I were going through a
(25:45):
bunch of ornaments that we haven't used in a long time,
and I was like, oh, let's just get rid of these,
and She's like, I can't do that. I was like, okay,
and then back in the box they went, yea, my
only other digite that was a Tears in Heaven reference,
which is an Eric Clapton song Andrew Walker casually references
(26:07):
one of the saddest songs of all time. Was not
on my Bengo card? Was he talking about? What was
he talking about? He was talking to the pizza shop owner.
When they were talking, they were it was in that scene.
I don't even remember what they were referring to, but
I was like Tears in Heaven. First of all, that
song came out thirty years ago. It is one of
the saddest songs. It's truly truly my did you see
(26:32):
That's are just things I enjoyed and would like to
point out. I enjoyed Lacey saying I have a well
traveled nose after she's identifying candle sense. I thought the
line was iconic. When Isabel and Jason are on their
date and Jason gets a phone call and he's like, oh, no,
Charlie came down with something. Because I'm a cynic, I'm like, no,
she didn't. This is a fake out call to get
out of the date. And then we realized, No, it's
(26:53):
just Charlie trying to ruin it, break their dataup. Yes,
I really liked the AI naughty your nice two point
reference as the bad guy. I don't know if you
noticed so much keto talk this weekend in both movies. Yes,
and also a not directly keto but similar sugar free
(27:14):
reference in another series we're going to be discussing this week.
Oh yeah, you're right, just a lot of keto. Yeah. Finally,
did you watch this movie live with commercials? No? Okay?
So on when on live television, Andrew and Lacy were
hosting it, and so during the commercial breaks we'd get
(27:34):
little bits with them, and at one point there was
a cookie bit. And Andrew's like, oh, think I'll stick
to juice, and he like drink because it doesn't he
have a juice company. Yes, well, cut to the next
commercial break. He does take a bite of cookie. It
is the tiniest piece of cookie you've ever seen. Oh,
this man doesn't any cookies. So there's no way, I mean,
zero percent body fat, there's no heat. I mean it's
(27:54):
like a corner of a gingerbread foot. It's amusing to me.
It amused me. Are you ready to rate. She's making
a list. I am. I gave it three and a
half stars. I gave it four and a half stars. Wow. Well,
we're going to fight in our next episode too. Come
back fast, jeez. We might thank you for listening to
(28:20):
this episode of Girls Gone Homemark, a Bramble Jam podcast.
We'll be back next time with more Hamemark reviews. Goodbye bye.
All right friends, before we go, just a quick heads up,
(28:41):
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This is a bramble Jam podcast. Welcome to Girls Gone Hallmark,
(00:24):
a Hallmark review podcast. I'm Megan and I'm a longtime
Hallmark fan. I'm Wendy, I'm a former Hallmark hater. On
today's episode, we will be discussing She's Making a List,
which originally premiered on the Hallmark Channel on Saturday, December sixth,
and is currently available to stream on Hallmark Plus. We
have been loving the reviews. You're leaving four Girls Gone
(00:46):
Hallmark in your favorite podcast app and I would like
to read a quick review to show you just how
easy it is to make our day and support the podcast.
Ryan says, love this podcast so much. Megan and Wendy
are amazing and hilarious. Definitely my favorite Hallmark podcast of
all hilarious. Every time someone tells us we're funny, We're like,
(01:09):
are we? I know? Wow, I'll take it. Wow. What
a Christmas miracle? That feels like a completely free present exactly.
I love that you're looking at me for what's next. Hey,
if you want to come join our Facebook group where
I think Ryan is a member, We're at Girls Gone
(01:31):
Hallmark and Facebook groups. Question for you, have you recovered
from Mary Thanksgiving weekend, I feel like, no, we haven't
even gotten a break. We're just like diving back in.
First of all, I would like to say, I don't
think my Golden Girls meme on Instagram got enough love
for as funny as I thought. Oh it landed for
me tell our stories? Yeah for funny, right, yes, thank you,
(01:55):
thank you. I needed that. No, I am fully underwater.
Are in every area of my life. So do not
let the fact that we are churning out episodes fast
and furious fool you. We are not, okay. I think
you can hear that in the Christmas at cat Nip Cafe.
Oh that's fully off the rails. Yeah, yeah, but here
(02:18):
we are again. We're back. I gotta tell you. Look
at the calendar. I'm like, we're in the home stretch.
It's happening. It's almost done. But the rest of my
life is also falling apart. So, you know, is anybody
getting a Christmas gift this year? Probably not. The floor
of my closet is just bags and bags of gifts. Great,
I'm gonna go rate it. So I think some gifts
(02:40):
for my family, some of them, many of them are
still in like the shipping packages, like they haven't even
been It's only December eighth. I know, but as you
and I discussed, based on my own personal scheduling, I
really am about ten days left. Like the last week
is fully off limits to me for any Christmas preps.
So ill it's thinking the other day while I was
(03:02):
in my closets where I do my best thinking, and
I was thinking, we really need to do what we
can to take the post Christmas through New Year's time
off you and I, You and I, even though new
episodes will be dropping, Yeah, we need to be ahead
of the game and we'll still be doing stuff. Yeah,
(03:25):
like the bracket. Yeah, if you didn't hear, we're gonna
do the bracket. I don't know when yet. I haven't
looked at the calendar. Maybe when we're done recording this episode,
we'll look at the calendar. That's a good idea exactly
what we're doing. Yeah, Because I actually was the other
day thinking, I had like this vision of a reel
in my head, be like coming December thirty, I don't know, Yeah, anyway,
(03:46):
like a hype video. Yes, yeah, yeah, bracket coming soon. Well,
let's talk. She's making a list, which I need to
do as well, with a synopsis A naughty or nice
inspector evaluating a girls Christmas status falls for her widowed father,
making her question the strict rules of her consulting firm
(04:06):
and forcing her to choose between protocol and love. She's
making a list. Was directed by Stacy and Harding. This
marks Stacy's sixteenth directing credit, and she's known for Hallmark
gems like Round and Round and Mystery One on One,
Deadly History. Some other titles that don't get talked about
enough are Love Classified and Christmas Sale. Remember Christmas Sale?
You know is? I had kind of forgotten about it?
(04:28):
But yes, that father Doughter storyline hit hard That's a
good movie. It does not get talked about, No, it
does not. Is it from twenty twenty twenty twenty one?
Like around that time? Right early? But I don't think
twenty I don't think twenty twenty, twenty twenty one, twenty
twenty two. Yeah. Maybe The script comes from Joey de Paolo, who,
(04:49):
according to IMDb, has only three writing credits, but Joey
is credited with writing Hallmarks and American and Austin from
twenty twenty four. This marks his second Hallmarks green Play.
I did do a little googling because when I went
to IMDb and I saw like he only had like
three writing credits, I was like, something's not adding up here.
This is kind of a big movie for like a
(05:12):
new new writer. So then I found he had a
website and then he did American in Austin, but it
wasn't on IMDb. Yes, hey, Joey, update your eye, get
your people on that. Lacy Shabert stars is Isabelle. She
also serves as executive producer on this movie. We last
saw Lacey and Hall at the Halloween, and she will
star in the forthcoming Lost in Paradise opposite Ian Harding.
(05:35):
In January twenty twenty six. Andrew Walker co stars as Jason.
This makes movie number five this year for Andrew, The
Reluctant Royal Adventures in Love and Birding, Three Wisest Men
and Parents in Holiday Touchdown, A Bill's Love Story five
five titles for This Man, Busy Man, Caden's Compton Placed Charlie.
(05:56):
This is her fourth Hallmark appearance and she has been
seen the movie movies like an Easter Bloom and Sweeter
Than Chocolate. Ella Sandro Miro plays Giuseppe with forty nine
acting credits. We last saw him in The Santa Class
as Blaze. Steve Basic appears as Rudolph. We last saw
Steve on Hallmark Plus in Back to Back Aurora t
Garden Mysteries from twenty twenty four. Larisa Tronco plays Heidi
(06:19):
with twenty eight acting credits. Larisa has appeared in other
Hallmark movies like Private, Princess Christmas and Love Classified Mystery.
Wano One fans know her as Lacey Daniels from the
first two movies. Bjay Harrison plays Wanda. She has a
whopping one hundred forty nine acting credits. We last saw
her on Hallmark in Holidays. Antonio Coyone plays Oscar Now
(06:43):
side note. When Antonio showed up in this movie, did
you immediately think of Friend of the Show Holly? I did.
Holly is an Antonio super fan. I'm pretty sure she
is the one who coined the term Coyone fans for
his fan Instagram account. Love That. Antonio has forty nine
acting credits and last appeared in Christmas Under the Lights
(07:04):
and The Real West, both in twenty twenty four. Kurt
Long appears as the Santa impersonator. He might look familiar
to you, as he's appeared recently in Three Wisest Men
and Adventures in Love and Burning. Dax Spellinger plays Santa.
He has thirty five acting credits, with roles in North
By North Pole, A dial S Mystery, and dial S
(07:27):
for Santa. That's so interesting. Those titles are so similar,
And when I was putting this, I was like, did
he play Santa and all those movies? Those movies are
not Hallmark movies, but definitely has our strong Santa Santa vibes. Yep,
Let's take a quick break and come back with our
first impressions. Hey, Wendy, what is your first impression of
(07:55):
She's making a list. I'm not saying I googled skin
Mason for my husband after this movie. But I'm also
not not saying that if you guys don't know what
skin Mason is, maybe I just get served so many
skin Mason ads because I'm in the Hallmark world. Skin
Mason is owned by Andrew Walker, which is like a
skincare line. It's a little confusing. I don't know if
(08:16):
it's for men only or for it's for men and
women only, but I thought Andrew really good in this movie,
and I was like, does my husband need those products?
Did he have work done? Or is it skin Mason
And maybe it's skid Mason. I don't know. I'm into it.
My first impression is I spent the entire movie waiting
for the Fred Klaus style reveal of there are no
naughty kids, and I was not disappointed. You lost me
(08:37):
at Fred Claus. Well, that's that. Is that the tam
Allan movie. No no, no, no, no, no, no, no no no.
Put some respect on Vince Vaughn's name. Oh wow, I
do love Vince Vaughn. I recently saw Vince Vaughn in
something and he looked really good. Anyway, Fred Klaus, I
have watched too many Christmas movie Everything is blending together
(09:00):
for me right now. Let me let me, let's get
let me tell you about it. Please unpackage for me.
Fred Klaus is the story of Fred Klaus, who is
the brother of Santa Claus. Okay, Saint Nicholas. Vince Vaughan
plays the brother and they have a troubled relationship because
of course Saint Nicholas is the golden child MM and
always was. Well, he needs money from his brother his
(09:21):
father's like, I'll give it to you, but you got
to come help me out of the North Pole. He
goes to the North Pole. He happens to be there
while the Inspector is there, who is played by Kevin Spacey,
trying to get the North Pole shut down. Double V
makes a choice. He's working the naughty and Nice list,
got It. He's stamping the kids naughty nice, naughty nice.
And then he has this realization based on his own
(09:44):
childhood where he was the troubled brother. And he also
has a relationship with a young kid named Slam who's
kind of going through it. Ends up in a group
home and he's like, there's no naughty kids. Every kid
deserves a gift at present at Christmas. So you're saying
that this is similar to that movie inspired by Got It.
I really love the reveal the no naughty Kids. It's
(10:07):
a very silly movie, but there's a very sweet Christmas
morning montage at the end. Huh. Fred Claus also has
the best North Pole I think I've seen in a
Christmas movie. Oh really? How so, it's just incredibly well done.
The little north Pole town. It looks cute, it's cute,
(10:27):
it's not in Delaware. It's not in Delaware. Okay, can
we talk about what we liked about this movie? I
have a Philly Mega didn't like this movie. Guys, Oh
I did like this movie. You should see my list
of likes. I have a good long list of likes.
Can I start. It's a little bit piggybacking off of
what you just talked about with the Fred Klaus. My
first like is that it's telling us that life isn't
(10:50):
naughty or nice, that it is shades of gray, that
people are murky and messy, and kids behave for certain reasons,
and adults overreact for certain reasons, and life is not tidy.
I was very drawn to this message. I agree with
this message. I think it's interesting how they wove this
(11:16):
like algorithm storyline into this thing of like, oh, you're
either this or that. You can't be in the middle,
Like there's no explanation for why people do things. You're
either bad or good. I just thought that was an
interesting story to tell. Yeah, did you like heid how
she was like all in on clearing the name of
(11:37):
this kid who Isabelle was convinced had killed all the
other plants. But she was like I'm convinced what he
was actually doing here is trying to fertilize them. Right, Like,
She's like, we got to dig deeper, we got to
look for more. We can't just look for the evidence
that confirms our suspicions about these kids, right. I kind
of thought it was an interesting message because I think
(12:00):
right now in our lives, it's very much like, oh,
you support that, well, then you're in that box. Oh
you like that, will you're in that box? Like you know,
it's very dividing. I just thought there was a deeper
message here. Yes, a naughty act doesn't make someone a
(12:20):
naughty person, right in every case, in every case. I also,
if I can just continue on real quick, Isabelle's monologue
of Santa at the end, I thought was really interesting.
Her whole speech about labeling kids as naughty doesn't make
them nicer, it creates wounded adults. I thought it was
honestly compelling. See how it ties back to your Fred
(12:44):
Claus nice example. Maybe it's also because you and I
are both parents of almost adult children, and I think
we can like look at it with some perspective that
kids do things because you know they're acting out. Oh
and they're learning. Like, I just thought that was so compassionate.
(13:05):
Like this whole monologue, how she's talking about kids are
learning and they need adults not to shame them on
these things. They need the adults to help guide them. Yeah.
I just thought, Wow, that's an interesting theme that we're
exploring here. Call Mark. I do think it's an interesting thing.
I think this movie stepped outside of the norm in
(13:25):
a lot of ways, but there's a lot of you
need choices. I really enjoyed the opening animation. Oh yeah,
me too, Lazy's voiceover Sam explaining the premise, explaining the job,
who she is, just the kind of a lightwash of
her personal history as well. What about her breaking the
fourth wa I love it. Yeah. It gives this movie
like we're letting you in on this secret. Yes, we're
(13:48):
taking you behind the scenes. Yeah, I agree, And she
does it really well. Here's a piece of the story
that I loved. Charlie is talking to her dad and
she says, one year, Santa's handwriting change yes, And in
that moment I thought, oh, that's because she lost her mom.
Then the reveal that it was because Santa had deemed
(14:10):
her naughty and left her coal and dad had stepped
in to play the role of Santa so that she
wouldn't know. I just was like blown away by that choice.
I agree. I thought that was such That scene between
Andrew Walker and that child actress Cadence was really good.
(14:30):
His reaction to her, like he was like, oh, like
he kind of thought he was caught by her too,
and you know, she knows like something's up, Like I
felt like she knew something was up. I really really
liked that scene. I'm going to tell you there was
a scene where Jason reveals to Isabelle that he's the
(14:51):
one who had changed all the stuff about you know,
the Santa stuff. I had this like epiphany while I'm
watching this. This movie is treating Santa as truth, like
we have to totally we're living in their world, that
Santa is this real person who gives coal or gives gifts. Yes,
And I just thought that was really interesting, Like I
(15:11):
don't feel like a lot of movies do that. Am
I crazy? No, you're not crazy, but you're also not
a Christmas movie person. Yeah? True either. There are a
lot of movies like Fred Klaus, like The Santa Claus
that treat Santa like truth. Yeah, maybe I just haven't
really noticed it on Hallmark. You're right, I don't watch
a lot of Christmas movies, so for as many Christmas
(15:33):
movies as we do, we don't always do a lot
of Santa. Right. So you know we had the Santa
class last year with the Magical Santa. Yeah, regardless, I
liked the way they handled the truth about Santa. Yeah,
it's like the Secret of Santa, right. Yeah, it was
a really weird moment for me while watching. I was like, Oh,
(15:54):
we live in this world where Santa is real, Okay,
and then I just moved on with it. Anyway, that's
a me thing. Well, you talked about the character of
Charlie and the actress Cadence. I mean, what pitch perfect casting.
I enjoyed Charlie so much as this sassy preteen and
the way she just gives it to Isabelle. I think
(16:15):
her banter with Andrew and her banter with Lacy, I
really liked her. Now I need to know what you thought.
As the resident child hater of the team, I thought
this character arc of Charlie being a bad kid was
actually quite fascinating because homework rarely lets a child be messy.
(16:40):
In this sort of way. We have her like stealing money.
She does not love dad's new love life that's happening.
She's acting out because of grief. I thought it was
all really good, and this girl can act. She was great. Yeah,
you know, I'm notoriously don't love kids in movies. I
(17:04):
really liked this kid a lot. Now let me ask
you Andrew. His character Jason in this movie is a
food critic who now consults with restaurants to make them better.
I was like, is this a job at us? But yeah,
that's exactly what I thought that. That was exactly my question. Yeah,
did they make you rethink? I was like, are is
this us? That is that what we're doing? Is this
effing play about us? What's that from? I don't euphore you. Oh,
(17:28):
I've never seen that. I just noticed a TikTok sound. Yeah.
I thought about that for a hot second. But I
don't think we've ever This isn't a takedown. Our podcast
is not a takedown podcast. No, not by any means.
But it did make me pause when he was like, oh,
I used to be a food critic and I would
write bad reviews, Like oh, that's not us. But it
(17:50):
did make me pause for a minute. It didn't make
me pause. I want to talk about Jason and Isabelle
for a second. I loved how Lacey leaned into Isabelle's
like flashes of being taken off guard by Jason's good looks,
like especially when they first meet, like she does it
really well. They're tiny beats. There's like a little bit
of a double take, flustered, a little bit of a
(18:10):
stutter like it felt real and funny. Hmmm. I thought
their chemistry was super believable. Would you think of all
of her very limited disguises, She's like, I'm gonna put
on these glasses and now I am invisible. It wasn't
too hygieninxy for me, if that's what you're suggesting. No,
I wasn't. I just thought it was so funny. She's like,
I'm gonna wash this window and literally stare in at
(18:33):
them and nobody's going to see me. I mean, she
did walk around like she was invisible. She's not. Well,
I didn't hate it, you know what I did love.
Did you notice that the entire color palette for her
was like Kelly Christmas, Kelly green, Like everything she wasn't
always in green, but a majority of it was green. Yeah,
(18:55):
it was so esthetically pleasing for me to look at.
Did you was there any point at which you wondered
if Lacey's character and the team of people she worked
with were more magical than corporate Oh yeah, I think
I assumed that, But it feels like they're just people
who have contracted with Santa. Yeah. Kind of an interesting take,
(19:18):
right it is? I have one final like, oh, two
final likes. The opening scene where the two kids lay
Lacey Isabella is watching the two kids that are like
either playing with like a baseball or snowballs, I don't know, whatever,
and one kid throws it up in the air and
the other kid is kind of slow motion of like
watching the thing. Did this not remind you of Ralphie
(19:38):
from a Christmas Story where he's like, oh fudge. Nope,
because I hate that movie and refuse to watch it.
Really can't stand it makes me physically uncomfortable. Why everything
about it? It's not on your absolutely watch list. No,
although my husband likes the sequel, oh, he also hates
the first movie. Yes, it's so weird that you guys
(20:01):
both don't like the first movie. I also don't like
it's a wonderful life. Oh, I don't think I've ever
seen that one. It's depressing. I had thirty seconds of
hope at the end of the movie. The rest of
the movie is sad and depressing like real life. Yeah.
Oh okay, Well, I thought that first scene reminded me
a lot of a Christmas story. And finally, my last
thing I liked. I like it at the end where
(20:23):
our two toxic masculinity guys get their gifts because they're
on the makeup list. You know, it was a nice payoff. Yeah,
close that loop there, their inner child was touched. Yes, well,
let's talk wishes. Okay, I could have used some more
detail about Isabel's past. Agree, I think we could have
(20:45):
flashed her character out a little bit more. You know,
she says, there's me with my suitcase, so like she
lost her parents? Is she a foster child? Where did
she spend her time? What's going on there? You know,
what is the job that she does now? Her way
of like neatly categorizing things in a world that was
(21:05):
not neatly categorized for her as a child's I just
I could have used more. We just had hints of it. Well,
I could totally project onto that if I may, she
falls into this line of, like, like you said, neatly
categorizing things, maybe because her childhood was chaos. Sure right,
I mean that's a what I have learned in therapy
(21:25):
personally about myself. I'm gonna be cynical twice first of
my wishes. And then I did see that what do
we think about the amount of surveillance we're doing on
these children? Like they got straight up video that they
can go back and red check. Well, it's pretend and
ethically questionable. It is pretend, but they go like fire
(21:45):
it up. They're like, pull up the video. It walks
a line for me that these adults are watching children
all the time. It's all this video footage of children.
There's nobody who's going it's pretend. Okay. While I really
enjoy Lacey and Andrew in this movie, they are both
(22:07):
really good at what they do. I liked Isabelle, I
liked Jason. I think they make a nice team in
terms of working towards a resolution that works for Charlie.
But I like the misfriends and partners but not in
a romance. Really, I enjoyed it good. I enjoyed it.
(22:30):
There was never a part of me I was like, no,
this doesn't work. Who do you like to see her with? Otherwise?
I don't know who do you like to see him
with otherwise? Ashley Williams, Him and Ashley Williams. When were
they ever in anything to in your favorite freaking movie
Jingle Bell Run? Oh yes, that's right. I was gonna
say Rachel Boston because they were in that Birdie. Oh yeah,
(22:51):
really good in that movie. They were great too. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
I hear you, I hear you know. Sometimes I guess
like Homerk's like, we gotta put our two heavy hitters together.
Let's let's do that well. And I think I think
that works actually for this movie, because sometimes I'm like, uh,
you don't know. I thought they were great together, but
I didn't think it was like hot, fiery, steamy chemistry. Damn,
(23:11):
I'm fully having flashbacks to that dance scene in Jingle
Bell Run. Jingle War Runs hot. Yeah, you're right, so
is Adventures on Love and Burding. You're right, this isn't hot,
which is okay. Like I'm not hot and steamy either,
so but sometimes I want that in my entertainment yeah, Okay,
I buy what you're putting down. Okay, what did you
(23:34):
wish for? I wish the pacing had been a tiny
bit snappier. I felt like the movie was just a
hair slow. It's not enough to like make me turn
to my phone. Mm. But I'm not exactly sure if
it was the pacin or the structure or just how
much like they're trying to build out this world. Yes,
(23:58):
it's a lot of details, and like you like, we
missed the details of Isabelle's backstory, right, so maybe it
just wasn't like it didn't fully come together in that way.
My only other wish is just Seppi at the top
of the movie with the insults when he when he's
presenting the cookies to Isabelle and Heidi and he's like,
(24:21):
this one looks like you all scoalty face, and I
was like, that is rude, But it does close the circle.
Like he is a he was a naughty kid, he's
a not so great adult, right, and he gets his
just Seppi cookiees right, But like I thought, oh, I
took it personally. I thought it was funny, but also
(24:41):
I was like, yike, like are we talking about somebody's
is just naffing play about us. Look as someone who
does not have a pleasant resting face, I dug it
personally got it. That's it for my wishes. Let's talk.
Did you see that I have two? Okay, they're just
(25:02):
they're not true. Did you see that's one? Is a question.
Charlie and Jason go to pick out the ugliest tree,
and I have to ask you, do you assign human
emotions to inanimate objects? Yeah? Yeah, So do you feel
bad for tree if you were? I know you have
an artificial tree, but if you were to go pick
out a tree, do you feel bad about like the
(25:24):
ones that are left behind? Yeah? Yeah. When I think
about like December twenty third and there's still trees in
a tree lot that nothing happened, that makes me very sad. Yeah,
they have a loser lives to raw on a home
depot parking. Yeah, it's kind of sad, it is. I mean,
I have that feeling too. We were decorating our Christmas
tree with my daughter and I were going through a
(25:45):
bunch of ornaments that we haven't used in a long time,
and I was like, oh, let's just get rid of these,
and She's like, I can't do that. I was like, okay,
and then back in the box they went, yea, my
only other digite that was a Tears in Heaven reference,
which is an Eric Clapton song Andrew Walker casually references
(26:07):
one of the saddest songs of all time. Was not
on my Bengo card? Was he talking about? What was
he talking about? He was talking to the pizza shop owner.
When they were talking, they were it was in that scene.
I don't even remember what they were referring to, but
I was like Tears in Heaven. First of all, that
song came out thirty years ago. It is one of
the saddest songs. It's truly truly my did you see
(26:32):
That's are just things I enjoyed and would like to
point out. I enjoyed Lacey saying I have a well
traveled nose after she's identifying candle sense. I thought the
line was iconic. When Isabel and Jason are on their
date and Jason gets a phone call and he's like, oh, no,
Charlie came down with something. Because I'm a cynic, I'm like, no,
she didn't. This is a fake out call to get
out of the date. And then we realized, No, it's
(26:53):
just Charlie trying to ruin it, break their dataup. Yes,
I really liked the AI naughty your nice two point
reference as the bad guy. I don't know if you
noticed so much keto talk this weekend in both movies. Yes,
and also a not directly keto but similar sugar free
(27:14):
reference in another series we're going to be discussing this week.
Oh yeah, you're right, just a lot of keto. Yeah. Finally,
did you watch this movie live with commercials? No? Okay?
So on when on live television, Andrew and Lacy were
hosting it, and so during the commercial breaks we'd get
(27:34):
little bits with them, and at one point there was
a cookie bit. And Andrew's like, oh, think I'll stick
to juice, and he like drink because it doesn't he
have a juice company. Yes, well, cut to the next
commercial break. He does take a bite of cookie. It
is the tiniest piece of cookie you've ever seen. Oh,
this man doesn't any cookies. So there's no way, I mean,
zero percent body fat, there's no heat. I mean it's
(27:54):
like a corner of a gingerbread foot. It's amusing to me.
It amused me. Are you ready to rate. She's making
a list. I am. I gave it three and a
half stars. I gave it four and a half stars. Wow. Well,
we're going to fight in our next episode too. Come
back fast, jeez. We might thank you for listening to
(28:20):
this episode of Girls Gone Homemark, a Bramble Jam podcast.
We'll be back next time with more Hamemark reviews. Goodbye bye.
All right friends, before we go, just a quick heads up,
(28:41):
you're about to hear some ads. These little gems help
us keep the show running and the Hallmark love flowing.
So do with that info what you will, Grab a snack,
hit the skip button, or maybe just maybe listen in
and discover your new favorite product. Bye us
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Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by Audiochuck Media Company.
The Brothers Ortiz
The Brothers Ortiz is the story of two brothers–both successful, but in very different ways. Gabe Ortiz becomes a third-highest ranking officer in all of Texas while his younger brother Larry climbs the ranks in Puro Tango Blast, a notorious Texas Prison gang. Gabe doesn’t know all the details of his brother’s nefarious dealings, and he’s made a point not to ask, to protect their relationship. But when Larry is murdered during a home invasion in a rented beach house, Gabe has no choice but to look into what happened that night. To solve Larry’s murder, Gabe, and the whole Ortiz family, must ask each other tough questions.