May 21, 2025 • 22 mins
Sebastien Silvestri, CEO of The Dinex Group, joins Zack Oates to share lessons from decades of global hospitality leadership—spanning Bora Bora, Vegas, Miami, and NYC. He dives into how restaurants can elevate the guest experience through entertainment, precision, and people-first operations. From value perception to theatrical dining, Sebastien shares why success starts with obsessed attention to detail and team care.
Zack and Sebastien discuss:
- Why today’s guests crave experiences, not just meals
- How theatrical touches like table-side service delight diners
- Why hospitality starts with taking care of your team
- How to deliver value at every price point
- What consistency, cleanliness, and temperature say to a guest
- The hiring mindset he uses to build passionate, people-loving teams
Thanks, Sebastien!
Links:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sebastiensilvestri/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/danielbouludcollection/
https://www.instagram.com/sebastiensilvestri/
https://www.instagram.com/danielboulud/
https://www.danielboulud.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to another edition of Give an Ovation, the
restaurant guest experiencepodcast, where I talk to
industry experts to get theirstrategies and tactics you can
use to create a five-star guestexperience.
This podcast is sponsored byOvation, an operations and guest
recovery platform formulti-unit restaurants that
gives all the answers withoutannoying guests.
(00:21):
With all the questions.
Learn more at OvationUpcom.
And today I am so excited wehave a legend of the industry,
sebastian Silvestri.
He's a CEO of Dynex Group, chefDanielle Bouloud and I mean
Sebastian has been all over theworld in hospitality London,
dallas, bora Bora, vegas, la,miami and now New York City.
(00:43):
Sebastian, thank you so muchfor joining us and giving an
ovation.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Thank you, Zach.
I'm really happy to be with youtoday and thank you for the
great honor.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
So obviously you've worked all around the world,
sebastian, and is there anythingthat you've found that's super
unique?
I mean New York City and BoraBora.
I don't think could be moredifferent.
How has hospitality played intothose differences?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
I think every place is very unique and I can tell
you that I have a fond memory ofBora Bora and the people there
and the Polynesian.
I think hospitality isunbelievable.
They're very loving, veryaffectionate.
I think every place you work inthe world is kind of humbling
because every culture isdifferent and you learn a lot
(01:30):
from being exposed to all thosedifferent cultures.
And I remember when I moved toBora Bora that's so funny I was
27 years old.
My first daughter was just bornand that's why we decided to
move there and the guestexperience.
People travel from all over theworld to go to borough.
It's like a dream destinationand I don't think you travel for
borough for the food.
(01:50):
You travel there because it'sone of the most beautiful place
on earth.
People go there for thehoneymoons, they go there for
diving, they go there for somany things.
But the hospitality wasunbelievable and for sure you
learn.
I think I've learned in all theplaces've been, no matter if
it's in some of the mostchallenging places, because
there's some that are reallyreally more difficult than
(02:11):
others to a place like New Yorkthat I call the capital of the
world.
You know it's a city that isunbelievable and such a melting
pot of so many differentcultures in one city.
And for sure, service looksvery different in New York and
the experience is very different, obviously, because you really
have to tailor the experiencedepending where you are and
where your audience is, but avery special place.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
And in Bora Bora.
How long were you there?
For Just a year A year by thetime that you left.
Did it seem ordinary or was itlike impressive every day?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
You get used to it, it every day.
You wake up, you see thebeautiful, the thing.
I was really funny.
We live in what they call amotu.
A motu is a very small, tinyisland and we were living there
with 40 expats and it's like youlive there, walk there, you
know it's like a 24 7 type ofthings and if you want to get
out of this small island youhave to take a boat to go to the
(03:05):
bigger island and the biggerisland it's also super, super
small, but eventually with timeyou do get used to it, become
your new normal.
I think a year was just enoughat the time.
I think my wife at the time wasgoing crazy living in a small
island like this she was likeI'm ready to go back to the US.
Like this she was like I'm readyto go back to the.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
US.
So you had one daughter whenyou were there, but you've got a
few kids.
I have two daughters, yes.
So how does that work in termsof looking at your family and
the restaurant world?
How have you been able to bothbe a restaurateur and a family
man?
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Well, I think I've been blessed.
I have an amazing family.
My daughters love my life, soit's incredible they still live
with me in New York.
It's so fun.
We've moved a lot, traveled alot.
Like you said, I get in allthese different places.
I think it was hard at timesfor them to move so often.
I think they were very upsetwhen I told them, hey, we're
going to move, when they wereteenagers.
But I told them I'm doing itfor you and you will appreciate
(04:02):
it on the long run.
I think today they doappreciate it.
But how did I do that?
I always try to count time forthem and no matter how busy I am
, I think it's very important tosome degree to give me a sense
of balance.
If I don't see them, it reallybothers me.
So you know like Sundays theday that I really dedicate to
the family.
You know it's like unlessthere's something out of the
(04:22):
extraordinary, of course, wealways on, I'm always on, and
then I think at the time I had abig corporate job in vegas, so
it was a little easier than itis today to count.
But at the same time, today,you know, they're 21 and 19, so
they live their own life, theytravel as much as I do.
I think I give them the bug oftravel yeah and the experience,
because that's the world we livein and I'm really happy where
(04:44):
things are with them and howthings are going.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Well, I think that's beautiful because, as research
actually shows, that there arecertain principles, both in a
relationship between couples,between parents and kids, and
between restaurants and guests,that are all the same, and one
of the things that we found isthat, if there is a negative
(05:07):
experience, if you get into anargument with one of your kids
or your spouse, or you mess upan order and you sincerely
apologize, the relationship isactually stronger.
That guest is actually morelikely to become more loyal.
The husband, the spouse, thecouple they're gonna be closer
together.
The parent and child spouse,the couple they're going to be
closer together.
The parent and child are goingto be closer together than if
(05:27):
there wasn't even that mistakein the first place.
And so I think there's a lot ofprinciples of hospitality that
go worldwide and for everyrelationship, because, as I
remind people, we're not servingcustomers, we're not even
serving guests, we're servinghumans.
And I think that the differencebetween a marriage and a dinner
(05:47):
, obviously the stakes are goingto be different pun intended
but the concept and the feelingis the same.
And so I'd love to dive intoyour philosophy about what do
you think are some of the mostimportant aspects of guest
experience nowadays?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
So look, people like today.
They're definitely not lookingfor a meal, they're just not
looking for good food and goodservice.
I think it's something of thepast.
People, if they go out, they'relooking for an experience.
I think we see people wantingto be entertained.
I think people are going out tohave fun.
I think our job is to lookafter people and, of course, pay
attention to details and makingsure we go above and beyond for
(06:24):
them, but I think also, really,people want to be entertained.
We just opened our newsteakhouse called la tête d'or
and it's really fabulous.
And then the whole experienceis entertainment.
If you sit in this roombeautiful design from david
rockwell, ice ceiling, openkitchen, the grill with burning
wood right there, the coheniasteak right there so you're
(06:45):
really entertained by the wholething the music, the lighting,
everything is really, reallyspecial.
And then you're going to seeyour captain going on with the
trays and they open the traysand carving the prime rib which
is an insane prime ribs yeah,this little ranch from texas
that daniel selected to meetthere and we're carving this
table side and putting the salt.
(07:06):
The next table might have aCaesar salad and we're making a
Caesar salad right in front ofthem, and then the next table is
adding a salt meuniere, andthen you have the captain that
is deboning the salt, et cetera.
So I think it's a show, and notonly in our restaurants.
People go out, like you said,they want an experience, they
don't want just a meal and theywant to be entertained, they
want to be looked after, theywant to be surprised, they want
(07:28):
to see things they haven't seen,or things they haven't seen in
a really long time.
I'm going to give you anotherexample At Restaurant Daniel.
Restaurant Daniel is aninstitution in New York City.
It's a restaurant that is 32years old, one of the most
successful French restaurants inall time in America, and you
have people that go there forthis very special experience
multi-course dinner, thepresentations are amazing, the
(07:51):
chef always sorts the finestingredients, the service is
impeccable, everything justtop-notch.
And then we just launched, likea week ago, to bring back a
duck at a press.
I don't know if you know what aduck at a press is.
It's a really old school dishwhere we basically cut the duck
in front of the guest and then,with the bones from the duck, we
(08:13):
put them in this machine andthen we press it, we press the
bones and come out a juice andwith the juice that comes out of
it and the blood, we make asauce.
We do all this in front of theguests.
It's a show.
We just announced it last weekand we just announced it on
Instagram that we're bringingthis dish back.
And then the post got crazyviral and everybody messaging us
(08:36):
oh my gosh, we want to come forthis, we want a reservation, we
want to try this and all ofthis.
So that tells you again thatpeople are looking for
experience.
They're looking to see thingsthat they haven't seen.
They want to be surprised anddelighted, and so I think that's
that of where we see theevolution of dining today.
It's not just to tick a box.
I'm hungry, I'm going to eat.
It's where could we go andspend the evening and have the
(08:58):
time?
Speaker 1 (08:59):
And for those types of restaurants that are check
the box, like, hey, I just needto get something to eat.
I think the biggest thingthey're looking for is just
accuracy, right, and I thinkthat whether someone's spending
a lot of money to go out andlook for entertainment right,
where they're basically nowadays, it's too expensive to go to a
movie and dinner.
You got to choose one or theother, and so when they're
(09:20):
looking for the evening out, Ithink you're exactly right
they're looking for something alittle more pizzazzy than just
your normal dinner used to be.
No, man?
Speaker 2 (09:30):
very true.
And look, people have a lot ofoptions.
Like you said, they can go tothe theater, they can go to a
Broadway show, they can go fordinner, they can go for dinner.
They can go to so many things.
Right, they can go to watch anNBA games and, honestly, what I
see is people are going out,especially in New York and even
everywhere around the world.
People are going out.
They're choosing to go out fordinner and have fun.
Dining out is expensive forplenty of reasons.
(09:51):
The cost of doing business inour industry is extremely high,
so there's no other way to do it.
I think there might be aperception that it's very
expensive, but it's veryexpensive for the restaurateur
all of them across the country,no matter if you're selling a
sandwich or a fine dining meal.
It's a very labor-intensiveindustry.
The cost of goods have beengoing up crazy in the last few
(10:13):
years.
The occupancy costs are reallyhigh, but the reality is the
guests.
They choose to go out dining.
This is what they want.
First of all, I think everybodyloves good food and good wine
and good cocktails.
I think that's a given.
But on top of that, they wantthis experience and they want to
be surprised and have good time.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Yeah, and I feel like a lot of people.
What it comes down to is peopleare okay spending their money.
They just want to know thatthey're going to get what
they're paying for Really goodpoint.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
I say that all the time.
The value proposition, nomatter what you do, is so
important.
No matter if you're buying a$10 sandwich or you're buying a
$400 tasting menu.
When pairing, the value pieceproposition is super important.
I mean, even I'm the first oneas a guest, I always look at the
(11:02):
experience at the end as itwasn't worth it, right, yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:05):
yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
And sometime you finish somewhere you're like, oh
my gosh, I had the time of mylife.
This is amazing.
I had so much fun and it was sogood and it was a learning
experience almost going there.
It was just incredible.
Or sometime you might leave andsay, well, that was not worth
it.
So I think it's very importantthat we have to be really
critical as we run our business,to ask ourselves those
(11:28):
questions.
It's how we deliver on theexperience.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
And I think that's unbelievable to hear from what
most people would look at thetypes of restaurants that you've
always run.
You look at that and you'relike there's no way they're ever
talking about value.
But I love hearing you talkabout that.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
It's about price.
There is a lot of pricesensibility in the market, no
matter what level you're in, andwe want people to feel good
when they come to us, Even ifthe whole experience is amazing.
But then if they leave and theyfeel like they've been and it
doesn't feel right, this iswrong.
So the sentiment of value isvery, very important.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
I love that because I talk about it all the time of
even a vending machine.
Right, you put in a dollar mostpeople in this country they
could afford a dollar to putinto a vending machine to get
out some candy or chips.
If I put in a vending machineto get a candy bar and the candy
bar gets stuck, I mean I'mfurious.
Right, and yeah, you're shakingthat vending machine and it's
(12:30):
only a dollar, but yet peoplewill go to the hospital with
broken hands.
It's the principle, right?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
It is the principle A hundred percent.
I'm with you a hundred percent.
The value is we're verycautious.
Every year we review what wecharge.
Several times a year we revieweverything that we charge the
guests and we take it very, veryseriously.
We don't want to feel expensive, we don't want to be expensive,
we want to be fair.
But at the same time, when yousell one of the most expensive
(12:59):
bottle of wine, there's stillgoing to be a cost to it.
Or if you source the best unifrom wherever it's coming from,
and you have to fly it to haveit there and it's coming from
Japan, there will be a cost toit.
There's no choice to it.
But we're still going toprovide value and super
important.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Yeah, sebastian, you've given us a whole bunch of
tactics here for the astutelistener.
Right, you heard about bringingback experiences, looking for,
maybe, dishes that you've hadoff the menu for a while, doing
things that are going tosurprise the guest, or looking
at, a couple times a year, theprice and looking at the value.
Are there any other tacticsthat you would recommend to
(13:39):
improve the guest experience?
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Well, when you look at the whole experience, I think
everything plays very specialroles.
I think I always say you needto have the foundation right of
hospitality.
I'm going to give you someexample.
When you enter a restaurant, inmy opinion, you cannot go in a
room and it's freezing cold, oryou cannot go in a room and it's
too hot, or you cannot go in aroom and the restaurant is not
clean perfectly, you can have it.
So there's a lot offundamentals that are given that
(14:03):
everybody needs to be obsessedwith.
I'm obsessed with this when Iwalk into a restaurant, about
all the little things that aresuper important, that you need
to check the box and make sureyou have them and then you have
everything else is how do I'mgoing to make your experience
today, zach, super special?
And how do I'm going to makethat happen?
And if I know you a little bitand I know what you like and
(14:25):
what you don't like and whereyou like to sit and all this
little thing there, and if Ichallenge myself is Zach has
been to the restaurant 58 times.
Why is he coming today?
Are they celebrating something?
Try to get obsessed with theexperiences.
How can I surprise you thistime.
What can I make for you thatwill make you feel great, make
it very special?
(14:46):
I think that's what we have tochallenge ourselves with every
single guest and interactionpeople.
When they come to our rations,very often they come for it's a
special day and we have to goabove and beyond that.
They're just not coming tocelebrate a birthday.
They're spending time withtheir family.
They choose to come in ourrestaurants.
So I feel like we haveresponsibilities to go above and
(15:09):
beyond and looking after themand taking care of them, and I
think one of the secrets of thelongevity of Daniel is how
obsessed he is with the guestsand how much he loves them and
how much he takes care of them,and that's kind of what matters.
And then the team.
We didn't talk about the people, but without the team there is
no magic and there's noexperience, and I think the
(15:29):
success today in hospitality isthe people that work with you.
By your side, we employhundreds of restaurant
individuals.
In New York City, everyrestaurant is a family, making
sure you have the most engaged,passionate, trained people.
There's no good service withouta good hospitality, without an
employee that is engaged andhappy to be there.
(15:50):
So we have this responsibilityto hire great people that have
the trade that we're looking for, and then we have to care for
them, look after them.
Others will say we have to lookafter them not only in the good
time, but also during thedifficult time.
Yeah, I think that's beautiful.
The number one challenge in theindustry today is staffing.
If you talk to anyone aroundthe world, your friends in
(16:13):
London, friends in Asia, friendsall over.
What is the number one issue inhospitality today is finding
talent.
So the advice I give people allthe time is take care of the
people that you have Instead ofbe focusing in all the time is
finding new, high and new, highand new high.
You have great people.
Take care of them.
Don't lose them.
You already have them orelevate them, train them, give
(16:35):
them a career and if you want tokeep people today because if
you're in the same position fortoo long, you might start to get
bored People you know likeyoung individuals.
So they have the need to move,to get promoted, to be exposed,
to go from one restaurant toanother one, and I think that's
very, very important.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
I love that because, yeah, I mean, it's all about the
people and we talk about it allthe time is that the guest
experience cannot exceed theemployee experience and we need
to make sure that our teammembers feel like that.
They feel like team members andthey feel like they're a part
of building something special.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Everyone in a restaurant plays a role to the
success, no matter if it's afront house employee or back of
house employees.
No matter their position,they're critical to the
experience.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Amen Love that.
So, sebastian, you obviouslyhave been in this industry for
decades.
You know everyone who do youfeel like deserves an ovation in
the restaurant industry.
Who is someone that we shouldbe following?
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Well, daniel is a given.
I think he's my hero.
When I see his career and whathe's done, it's really
incredible.
But outside of our industrythere's so many people I respect
For Italian food.
There is this chef, stefano.
He's got to manage tworestaurants in New York City.
He's got Resdora and Massarasome of my favorite restaurants.
I love Italian food.
He's so passionate.
(17:55):
His food is Italian food fromEmilia Romagna in Resdora and my
father is Italian and when I gothere the food is as good as
when I'm in the small village inItaly.
So he kind of transports me andhe's so passionate, so he's one
of my heroes for Italian foodbecause it's so authentic, so
perfect.
Then there's Simon Kim.
That is crushing it the founderand CEO of Gracious Hospitality
(18:17):
.
He's got Coat and Cocoday.
We were just there yesterdayand let me tell you he took care
of us and gave us such a greattime.
He really put on the show forus and we had a blast and when
you look at it, we were eatingfried chicken but we had the
best experience you can imagineand he really I think he
deserves all the success that hehas because they're doing a
(18:39):
great job, with the wholeexperience Very different than
what we do.
I think we do two differentthings, but we have so much in
common to some degree, and I wasvery impressed with what he's
done and the experiences he'sgiven his guests, but it's so
many people that I have so muchrespect within the industry.
I think it's an industry wherepeople work so hard and make so
much sacrifices.
When you look at it, we don'thave one job in the hospitality.
(19:01):
During the day you have a joband at nighttime you have
another job.
The daytime job is running abusiness like everybody else,
because the margins are thin andyou need to keep things tight
and organized and make sureyou're efficient and you make
right decisions, etc.
Etc.
So I think that's the daytimeactivity and then nighttime
activity is showtime, takingcare of.
(19:21):
I think it makes such a hugedifference when you eat in the
restaurants and then someonecome and visit you, say hey,
zach, welcome back, it's so goodto see you and have you back
here, et cetera.
It takes the experience fromhere to up here.
You're being recognized, you'rebeing cared for, and I think
that's kind of what people want.
So and there's so many peoplethat do it very, very well
(19:42):
around the city across theUnited States.
I've seen so much in the last20 years that I've been in the
US and the level is constantlygetting better and better and
better and better, so it's veryimpressive.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah, totally.
I think that when we had WillGuder on this podcast, he talked
about helping people feel seenright, and that's that innate
human desire.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
He did a book on the back Unreasonable Hospitality.
What a great book.
Great book and he's a greatfriend and he's incredible.
He talks about passion rightthere when he speaks.
It's just unbelievable yeahhe's amazing.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
He is someone who has figured out how to inspire
people and I think that comesfrom within right.
It like starts in and grows out, and I agree with that.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I think a lot to go back to.
When I hire people, I'm lookingfor that sparkle in people,
people that love people, peoplethat love to that, have the
patience, that love to lookafter, people that have this
thing inside, and then we canteach them everything else.
I think that thing is socritical.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah, I love it.
Well, Sebastian, where canpeople go to find and follow you
and your brands?
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Well, they should follow Daniel Boulud first, so
they'll get better culinary tipsthan mine.
All our restaurants are amazing.
I think they're great to follow.
If you like beautiful,fine-eating food, you should
definitely follow a restaurantDanielle, Le Pabillon, Café
Boulu, Maison Bang Georgie wehave so many.
La Tête d'Or, our newsteakhouse, is fantastic.
(21:10):
Bar Boulu on the west side, LeGratin, a casual bistro,
Lyonnais bistro.
I would advise everyone to lookat all our rations and follow
them.
We put a lot of work into themost simple thing.
We just started a special at LeGratin.
It's a steak fruit special from5 to 7.
How do we get people engaged tocome to Le Gratin earlier in
(21:32):
the evening?
And we put this beautifulspecial and it's this great
steak fruit that you can haveand it's like this most charming
dining room.
And then, of course, you canhave a Cornell the brushe or you
can have a salad Leonese, thereally authentic Leonese cuisine
, and not a lot of places whereyou can have authentic dishes
like that.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
That sounds delicious to me, Sebastian.
So for giving us a tour acrossthe seven seas of your
experience, today's ovation goesto you.
Thank you so much for joiningus on Give an Ovation.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Thank you, zach, it was awesome.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Thank you Thanks for joining us today.
If you liked this episode,leave us a review on Apple
Podcasts or your favorite placeto listen.
We're all about feedback here.
Again, this episode wassponsored by Ovation, a
two-question, sms-basedactionable guest feedback
platform built for multi-unitrestaurants.
If you'd like to learn how wecan help you measure and create
(22:23):
a better guest experience, visitus at OvationUpcom.
Welcome to another edition of Give an Ovation, the
restaurant guest experiencepodcast, where I talk to
industry experts to get theirstrategies and tactics you can
use to create a five-star guestexperience.
This podcast is sponsored byOvation, an operations and guest
recovery platform formulti-unit restaurants that
gives all the answers withoutannoying guests.
(00:21):
With all the questions.
Learn more at OvationUpcom.
And today I am so excited wehave a legend of the industry,
sebastian Silvestri.
He's a CEO of Dynex Group, chefDanielle Bouloud and I mean
Sebastian has been all over theworld in hospitality London,
dallas, bora Bora, vegas, la,miami and now New York City.
(00:43):
Sebastian, thank you so muchfor joining us and giving an
ovation.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Thank you, Zach.
I'm really happy to be with youtoday and thank you for the
great honor.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
So obviously you've worked all around the world,
sebastian, and is there anythingthat you've found that's super
unique?
I mean New York City and BoraBora.
I don't think could be moredifferent.
How has hospitality played intothose differences?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
I think every place is very unique and I can tell
you that I have a fond memory ofBora Bora and the people there
and the Polynesian.
I think hospitality isunbelievable.
They're very loving, veryaffectionate.
I think every place you work inthe world is kind of humbling
because every culture isdifferent and you learn a lot
(01:30):
from being exposed to all thosedifferent cultures.
And I remember when I moved toBora Bora that's so funny I was
27 years old.
My first daughter was just bornand that's why we decided to
move there and the guestexperience.
People travel from all over theworld to go to borough.
It's like a dream destinationand I don't think you travel for
borough for the food.
(01:50):
You travel there because it'sone of the most beautiful place
on earth.
People go there for thehoneymoons, they go there for
diving, they go there for somany things.
But the hospitality wasunbelievable and for sure you
learn.
I think I've learned in all theplaces've been, no matter if
it's in some of the mostchallenging places, because
there's some that are reallyreally more difficult than
(02:11):
others to a place like New Yorkthat I call the capital of the
world.
You know it's a city that isunbelievable and such a melting
pot of so many differentcultures in one city.
And for sure, service looksvery different in New York and
the experience is very different, obviously, because you really
have to tailor the experiencedepending where you are and
where your audience is, but avery special place.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
And in Bora Bora.
How long were you there?
For Just a year A year by thetime that you left.
Did it seem ordinary or was itlike impressive every day?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
You get used to it, it every day.
You wake up, you see thebeautiful, the thing.
I was really funny.
We live in what they call amotu.
A motu is a very small, tinyisland and we were living there
with 40 expats and it's like youlive there, walk there, you
know it's like a 24 7 type ofthings and if you want to get
out of this small island youhave to take a boat to go to the
(03:05):
bigger island and the biggerisland it's also super, super
small, but eventually with timeyou do get used to it, become
your new normal.
I think a year was just enoughat the time.
I think my wife at the time wasgoing crazy living in a small
island like this she was likeI'm ready to go back to the US.
Like this she was like I'm readyto go back to the.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
US.
So you had one daughter whenyou were there, but you've got a
few kids.
I have two daughters, yes.
So how does that work in termsof looking at your family and
the restaurant world?
How have you been able to bothbe a restaurateur and a family
man?
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Well, I think I've been blessed.
I have an amazing family.
My daughters love my life, soit's incredible they still live
with me in New York.
It's so fun.
We've moved a lot, traveled alot.
Like you said, I get in allthese different places.
I think it was hard at timesfor them to move so often.
I think they were very upsetwhen I told them, hey, we're
going to move, when they wereteenagers.
But I told them I'm doing itfor you and you will appreciate
(04:02):
it on the long run.
I think today they doappreciate it.
But how did I do that?
I always try to count time forthem and no matter how busy I am
, I think it's very important tosome degree to give me a sense
of balance.
If I don't see them, it reallybothers me.
So you know like Sundays theday that I really dedicate to
the family.
You know it's like unlessthere's something out of the
(04:22):
extraordinary, of course, wealways on, I'm always on, and
then I think at the time I had abig corporate job in vegas, so
it was a little easier than itis today to count.
But at the same time, today,you know, they're 21 and 19, so
they live their own life, theytravel as much as I do.
I think I give them the bug oftravel yeah and the experience,
because that's the world we livein and I'm really happy where
(04:44):
things are with them and howthings are going.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Well, I think that's beautiful because, as research
actually shows, that there arecertain principles, both in a
relationship between couples,between parents and kids, and
between restaurants and guests,that are all the same, and one
of the things that we found isthat, if there is a negative
(05:07):
experience, if you get into anargument with one of your kids
or your spouse, or you mess upan order and you sincerely
apologize, the relationship isactually stronger.
That guest is actually morelikely to become more loyal.
The husband, the spouse, thecouple they're gonna be closer
together.
The parent and child spouse,the couple they're going to be
closer together.
The parent and child are goingto be closer together than if
(05:27):
there wasn't even that mistakein the first place.
And so I think there's a lot ofprinciples of hospitality that
go worldwide and for everyrelationship, because, as I
remind people, we're not servingcustomers, we're not even
serving guests, we're servinghumans.
And I think that the differencebetween a marriage and a dinner
(05:47):
, obviously the stakes are goingto be different pun intended
but the concept and the feelingis the same.
And so I'd love to dive intoyour philosophy about what do
you think are some of the mostimportant aspects of guest
experience nowadays?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
So look, people like today.
They're definitely not lookingfor a meal, they're just not
looking for good food and goodservice.
I think it's something of thepast.
People, if they go out, they'relooking for an experience.
I think we see people wantingto be entertained.
I think people are going out tohave fun.
I think our job is to lookafter people and, of course, pay
attention to details and makingsure we go above and beyond for
(06:24):
them, but I think also, really,people want to be entertained.
We just opened our newsteakhouse called la tête d'or
and it's really fabulous.
And then the whole experienceis entertainment.
If you sit in this roombeautiful design from david
rockwell, ice ceiling, openkitchen, the grill with burning
wood right there, the coheniasteak right there so you're
(06:45):
really entertained by the wholething the music, the lighting,
everything is really, reallyspecial.
And then you're going to seeyour captain going on with the
trays and they open the traysand carving the prime rib which
is an insane prime ribs yeah,this little ranch from texas
that daniel selected to meetthere and we're carving this
table side and putting the salt.
(07:06):
The next table might have aCaesar salad and we're making a
Caesar salad right in front ofthem, and then the next table is
adding a salt meuniere, andthen you have the captain that
is deboning the salt, et cetera.
So I think it's a show, and notonly in our restaurants.
People go out, like you said,they want an experience, they
don't want just a meal and theywant to be entertained, they
want to be looked after, theywant to be surprised, they want
(07:28):
to see things they haven't seen,or things they haven't seen in
a really long time.
I'm going to give you anotherexample At Restaurant Daniel.
Restaurant Daniel is aninstitution in New York City.
It's a restaurant that is 32years old, one of the most
successful French restaurants inall time in America, and you
have people that go there forthis very special experience
multi-course dinner, thepresentations are amazing, the
(07:51):
chef always sorts the finestingredients, the service is
impeccable, everything justtop-notch.
And then we just launched, likea week ago, to bring back a
duck at a press.
I don't know if you know what aduck at a press is.
It's a really old school dishwhere we basically cut the duck
in front of the guest and then,with the bones from the duck, we
(08:13):
put them in this machine andthen we press it, we press the
bones and come out a juice andwith the juice that comes out of
it and the blood, we make asauce.
We do all this in front of theguests.
It's a show.
We just announced it last weekand we just announced it on
Instagram that we're bringingthis dish back.
And then the post got crazyviral and everybody messaging us
(08:36):
oh my gosh, we want to come forthis, we want a reservation, we
want to try this and all ofthis.
So that tells you again thatpeople are looking for
experience.
They're looking to see thingsthat they haven't seen.
They want to be surprised anddelighted, and so I think that's
that of where we see theevolution of dining today.
It's not just to tick a box.
I'm hungry, I'm going to eat.
It's where could we go andspend the evening and have the
(08:58):
time?
Speaker 1 (08:59):
And for those types of restaurants that are check
the box, like, hey, I just needto get something to eat.
I think the biggest thingthey're looking for is just
accuracy, right, and I thinkthat whether someone's spending
a lot of money to go out andlook for entertainment right,
where they're basically nowadays, it's too expensive to go to a
movie and dinner.
You got to choose one or theother, and so when they're
(09:20):
looking for the evening out, Ithink you're exactly right
they're looking for something alittle more pizzazzy than just
your normal dinner used to be.
No, man?
Speaker 2 (09:30):
very true.
And look, people have a lot ofoptions.
Like you said, they can go tothe theater, they can go to a
Broadway show, they can go fordinner, they can go for dinner.
They can go to so many things.
Right, they can go to watch anNBA games and, honestly, what I
see is people are going out,especially in New York and even
everywhere around the world.
People are going out.
They're choosing to go out fordinner and have fun.
Dining out is expensive forplenty of reasons.
(09:51):
The cost of doing business inour industry is extremely high,
so there's no other way to do it.
I think there might be aperception that it's very
expensive, but it's veryexpensive for the restaurateur
all of them across the country,no matter if you're selling a
sandwich or a fine dining meal.
It's a very labor-intensiveindustry.
The cost of goods have beengoing up crazy in the last few
(10:13):
years.
The occupancy costs are reallyhigh, but the reality is the
guests.
They choose to go out dining.
This is what they want.
First of all, I think everybodyloves good food and good wine
and good cocktails.
I think that's a given.
But on top of that, they wantthis experience and they want to
be surprised and have good time.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Yeah, and I feel like a lot of people.
What it comes down to is peopleare okay spending their money.
They just want to know thatthey're going to get what
they're paying for Really goodpoint.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
I say that all the time.
The value proposition, nomatter what you do, is so
important.
No matter if you're buying a$10 sandwich or you're buying a
$400 tasting menu.
When pairing, the value pieceproposition is super important.
I mean, even I'm the first oneas a guest, I always look at the
(11:02):
experience at the end as itwasn't worth it, right, yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:05):
yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
And sometime you finish somewhere you're like, oh
my gosh, I had the time of mylife.
This is amazing.
I had so much fun and it was sogood and it was a learning
experience almost going there.
It was just incredible.
Or sometime you might leave andsay, well, that was not worth
it.
So I think it's very importantthat we have to be really
critical as we run our business,to ask ourselves those
(11:28):
questions.
It's how we deliver on theexperience.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
And I think that's unbelievable to hear from what
most people would look at thetypes of restaurants that you've
always run.
You look at that and you'relike there's no way they're ever
talking about value.
But I love hearing you talkabout that.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
It's about price.
There is a lot of pricesensibility in the market, no
matter what level you're in, andwe want people to feel good
when they come to us, Even ifthe whole experience is amazing.
But then if they leave and theyfeel like they've been and it
doesn't feel right, this iswrong.
So the sentiment of value isvery, very important.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
I love that because I talk about it all the time of
even a vending machine.
Right, you put in a dollar mostpeople in this country they
could afford a dollar to putinto a vending machine to get
out some candy or chips.
If I put in a vending machineto get a candy bar and the candy
bar gets stuck, I mean I'mfurious.
Right, and yeah, you're shakingthat vending machine and it's
(12:30):
only a dollar, but yet peoplewill go to the hospital with
broken hands.
It's the principle, right?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
It is the principle A hundred percent.
I'm with you a hundred percent.
The value is we're verycautious.
Every year we review what wecharge.
Several times a year we revieweverything that we charge the
guests and we take it very, veryseriously.
We don't want to feel expensive, we don't want to be expensive,
we want to be fair.
But at the same time, when yousell one of the most expensive
(12:59):
bottle of wine, there's stillgoing to be a cost to it.
Or if you source the best unifrom wherever it's coming from,
and you have to fly it to haveit there and it's coming from
Japan, there will be a cost toit.
There's no choice to it.
But we're still going toprovide value and super
important.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Yeah, sebastian, you've given us a whole bunch of
tactics here for the astutelistener.
Right, you heard about bringingback experiences, looking for,
maybe, dishes that you've hadoff the menu for a while, doing
things that are going tosurprise the guest, or looking
at, a couple times a year, theprice and looking at the value.
Are there any other tacticsthat you would recommend to
(13:39):
improve the guest experience?
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Well, when you look at the whole experience, I think
everything plays very specialroles.
I think I always say you needto have the foundation right of
hospitality.
I'm going to give you someexample.
When you enter a restaurant, inmy opinion, you cannot go in a
room and it's freezing cold, oryou cannot go in a room and it's
too hot, or you cannot go in aroom and the restaurant is not
clean perfectly, you can have it.
So there's a lot offundamentals that are given that
(14:03):
everybody needs to be obsessedwith.
I'm obsessed with this when Iwalk into a restaurant, about
all the little things that aresuper important, that you need
to check the box and make sureyou have them and then you have
everything else is how do I'mgoing to make your experience
today, zach, super special?
And how do I'm going to makethat happen?
And if I know you a little bitand I know what you like and
(14:25):
what you don't like and whereyou like to sit and all this
little thing there, and if Ichallenge myself is Zach has
been to the restaurant 58 times.
Why is he coming today?
Are they celebrating something?
Try to get obsessed with theexperiences.
How can I surprise you thistime.
What can I make for you thatwill make you feel great, make
it very special?
(14:46):
I think that's what we have tochallenge ourselves with every
single guest and interactionpeople.
When they come to our rations,very often they come for it's a
special day and we have to goabove and beyond that.
They're just not coming tocelebrate a birthday.
They're spending time withtheir family.
They choose to come in ourrestaurants.
So I feel like we haveresponsibilities to go above and
(15:09):
beyond and looking after themand taking care of them, and I
think one of the secrets of thelongevity of Daniel is how
obsessed he is with the guestsand how much he loves them and
how much he takes care of them,and that's kind of what matters.
And then the team.
We didn't talk about the people, but without the team there is
no magic and there's noexperience, and I think the
(15:29):
success today in hospitality isthe people that work with you.
By your side, we employhundreds of restaurant
individuals.
In New York City, everyrestaurant is a family, making
sure you have the most engaged,passionate, trained people.
There's no good service withouta good hospitality, without an
employee that is engaged andhappy to be there.
(15:50):
So we have this responsibilityto hire great people that have
the trade that we're looking for, and then we have to care for
them, look after them.
Others will say we have to lookafter them not only in the good
time, but also during thedifficult time.
Yeah, I think that's beautiful.
The number one challenge in theindustry today is staffing.
If you talk to anyone aroundthe world, your friends in
(16:13):
London, friends in Asia, friendsall over.
What is the number one issue inhospitality today is finding
talent.
So the advice I give people allthe time is take care of the
people that you have Instead ofbe focusing in all the time is
finding new, high and new, highand new high.
You have great people.
Take care of them.
Don't lose them.
You already have them orelevate them, train them, give
(16:35):
them a career and if you want tokeep people today because if
you're in the same position fortoo long, you might start to get
bored People you know likeyoung individuals.
So they have the need to move,to get promoted, to be exposed,
to go from one restaurant toanother one, and I think that's
very, very important.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
I love that because, yeah, I mean, it's all about the
people and we talk about it allthe time is that the guest
experience cannot exceed theemployee experience and we need
to make sure that our teammembers feel like that.
They feel like team members andthey feel like they're a part
of building something special.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Everyone in a restaurant plays a role to the
success, no matter if it's afront house employee or back of
house employees.
No matter their position,they're critical to the
experience.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Amen Love that.
So, sebastian, you obviouslyhave been in this industry for
decades.
You know everyone who do youfeel like deserves an ovation in
the restaurant industry.
Who is someone that we shouldbe following?
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Well, daniel is a given.
I think he's my hero.
When I see his career and whathe's done, it's really
incredible.
But outside of our industrythere's so many people I respect
For Italian food.
There is this chef, stefano.
He's got to manage tworestaurants in New York City.
He's got Resdora and Massarasome of my favorite restaurants.
I love Italian food.
He's so passionate.
(17:55):
His food is Italian food fromEmilia Romagna in Resdora and my
father is Italian and when I gothere the food is as good as
when I'm in the small village inItaly.
So he kind of transports me andhe's so passionate, so he's one
of my heroes for Italian foodbecause it's so authentic, so
perfect.
Then there's Simon Kim.
That is crushing it the founderand CEO of Gracious Hospitality
(18:17):
.
He's got Coat and Cocoday.
We were just there yesterdayand let me tell you he took care
of us and gave us such a greattime.
He really put on the show forus and we had a blast and when
you look at it, we were eatingfried chicken but we had the
best experience you can imagineand he really I think he
deserves all the success that hehas because they're doing a
(18:39):
great job, with the wholeexperience Very different than
what we do.
I think we do two differentthings, but we have so much in
common to some degree, and I wasvery impressed with what he's
done and the experiences he'sgiven his guests, but it's so
many people that I have so muchrespect within the industry.
I think it's an industry wherepeople work so hard and make so
much sacrifices.
When you look at it, we don'thave one job in the hospitality.
(19:01):
During the day you have a joband at nighttime you have
another job.
The daytime job is running abusiness like everybody else,
because the margins are thin andyou need to keep things tight
and organized and make sureyou're efficient and you make
right decisions, etc.
Etc.
So I think that's the daytimeactivity and then nighttime
activity is showtime, takingcare of.
(19:21):
I think it makes such a hugedifference when you eat in the
restaurants and then someonecome and visit you, say hey,
zach, welcome back, it's so goodto see you and have you back
here, et cetera.
It takes the experience fromhere to up here.
You're being recognized, you'rebeing cared for, and I think
that's kind of what people want.
So and there's so many peoplethat do it very, very well
(19:42):
around the city across theUnited States.
I've seen so much in the last20 years that I've been in the
US and the level is constantlygetting better and better and
better and better, so it's veryimpressive.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah, totally.
I think that when we had WillGuder on this podcast, he talked
about helping people feel seenright, and that's that innate
human desire.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
He did a book on the back Unreasonable Hospitality.
What a great book.
Great book and he's a greatfriend and he's incredible.
He talks about passion rightthere when he speaks.
It's just unbelievable yeahhe's amazing.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
He is someone who has figured out how to inspire
people and I think that comesfrom within right.
It like starts in and grows out, and I agree with that.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I think a lot to go back to.
When I hire people, I'm lookingfor that sparkle in people,
people that love people, peoplethat love to that, have the
patience, that love to lookafter, people that have this
thing inside, and then we canteach them everything else.
I think that thing is socritical.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah, I love it.
Well, Sebastian, where canpeople go to find and follow you
and your brands?
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Well, they should follow Daniel Boulud first, so
they'll get better culinary tipsthan mine.
All our restaurants are amazing.
I think they're great to follow.
If you like beautiful,fine-eating food, you should
definitely follow a restaurantDanielle, Le Pabillon, Café
Boulu, Maison Bang Georgie wehave so many.
La Tête d'Or, our newsteakhouse, is fantastic.
(21:10):
Bar Boulu on the west side, LeGratin, a casual bistro,
Lyonnais bistro.
I would advise everyone to lookat all our rations and follow
them.
We put a lot of work into themost simple thing.
We just started a special at LeGratin.
It's a steak fruit special from5 to 7.
How do we get people engaged tocome to Le Gratin earlier in
(21:32):
the evening?
And we put this beautifulspecial and it's this great
steak fruit that you can haveand it's like this most charming
dining room.
And then, of course, you canhave a Cornell the brushe or you
can have a salad Leonese, thereally authentic Leonese cuisine
, and not a lot of places whereyou can have authentic dishes
like that.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
That sounds delicious to me, Sebastian.
So for giving us a tour acrossthe seven seas of your
experience, today's ovation goesto you.
Thank you so much for joiningus on Give an Ovation.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Thank you, zach, it was awesome.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Thank you Thanks for joining us today.
If you liked this episode,leave us a review on Apple
Podcasts or your favorite placeto listen.
We're all about feedback here.
Again, this episode wassponsored by Ovation, a
two-question, sms-basedactionable guest feedback
platform built for multi-unitrestaurants.
If you'd like to learn how wecan help you measure and create
(22:23):
a better guest experience, visitus at OvationUpcom.
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