November 24, 2025 • 21 mins
Zack sits down with Melissa Richards-Person of Third Arm Consulting to unpack brand DNA and why it is the root of lasting guest experience. From Papa John’s transformation to creating signature moments guests remember, Melissa shares how clear voice, authentic behavior, and fast service recovery turn problems into loyalty. Zack and Melissa discuss brand DNA, founder led brands, garlic sauce lessons, the peak end rule, and how real time feedback can coach teams while winning back guests. Practical, specific, and immediately usable.
Zack and Melissa discuss:
- Authenticity and brand DNA
- Founder-led brand evolution
- The power of small gestures like garlic sauce
- Behavioral science behind peak and end moments
- How feedback turns into training opportunities
- Why clarity in tone beats friendliness every time
Thanks, Melissa!
Links:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissa-richards-person-3rdarm/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/third-arm-consulting/
https://www.getathirdarm.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
Welcome to another edition of Give and Ovation, the
Restaurant Guest Experiencepodcast.
I'm your host, Zach O, and eachweek I chat with industry
experts to uncover theirstrategies and tactics to help
you create a five-star guestexperience.
This podcast is powered byOvation, the feedback and
operations platform built formulti-unit restaurants.
(00:20):
Learn what is actually happeningin your restaurants and exactly
how to improve while drivingrevenue.
Learn more at ovationup.com.
And today I am so excitedbecause we have Melissa Richard
Person here who did I get thatfull name correctly, Melissa?
SPEAKER_00 (00:37):
You did, you did, but a lot of my restaurant
friends call me MRP.
So feel free to use that.
SPEAKER_02 (00:42):
Okay.
MRP.
I mean, if you have followed heron LinkedIn, you just know the
incredible career that she'shad.
And she has been, as we weretalking about right before we
hit record, not just at thetable, but behind the steering
wheel of some extremelyinfluential brands at extremely
(01:05):
pivotal times.
We're talking brand director ofKSC.
We're talking almost a dozenyears as the uh over at Papa
John's, where she finished offas chief brand officer.
She's been CMO, marketing lead.
She advises different VCs andstartups and companies.
And now she's at third armconsulting, working with all
(01:26):
kinds of brands, helping them toimprove their brand voice, their
marketing presence.
And so I am so excited, Melissa,to have you on the podcast.
SPEAKER_00 (01:36):
Thank you, Zach.
I'm excited to be here.
I feel really fortunate becauseyou've talked to some of my
favorite people that I've workedwith throughout my career,
including Justin Falciolarecently, who he and I worked
together at Top of John's, andPerry Rogers, who I got the
honor of working with whenduring our time with Shaquille
O'Neal as our brand ambassador.
(01:57):
So yeah, it's great to be here.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (02:00):
Well, you are in good company right in here.
Now, as we think about the guestexperience, first of all, I
don't know how much you'reallowed to share, but I would
love to just ask your opinion onhow was it during the Papa
John's transformation fromhaving Papa John be the face and
(02:23):
the head to not, as you'rerunning the brand, how do you
transition when the main thing,the logo is no longer there?
How did you do that?
SPEAKER_00 (02:34):
So I use a phrase a lot called brand DNA.
And really the core of myconsulting practice now is
helping companies unlock theirbrand DNA and use it to drive
everything from innovation toloyalty to content to products
(02:55):
and growth.
And that was really what weneeded to focus on.
We needed to focus on reallywhat was Papa John's authentic
DNA.
And brand DNA is really the coreof how you deliver a
differentiated guest experienceas well.
(03:16):
If you know your brand DNA, thenyou're going to behave in a way
that feels natural, authentic,but also different.
SPEAKER_02 (03:27):
But I mean, I feel like, especially in that
situation, and everyone facesthis in one way or another.
I think this one is just onethat is so textbook of the main
leader is gone.
Like if Jimmy John was kickedout of Jimmy John's, right?
It's like part of it is justbecause of the name, it's like
(03:47):
that feels like so much of thebrand DNA is that individual.
So how do you separate that?
How did you guys tease out whatis an individual and what is the
brand?
SPEAKER_00 (04:00):
Well, specifically, what this is a lesson for really
is any concept that has afounder at the center, you have
to understand what the qualitiesare that everyone believes in.
And so just like any other brandthat has a founder at their
(04:25):
center at some point, you haveto say, okay, that person can't
be everywhere every time.
So what are the things thatreally are uniquely ours that
don't belong to any of ourcompetitors?
Great example.
Papa John's believed in andstill does, you always get a
(04:46):
little something extra when youorder from that brand.
And that could be thepepperoncini and garlic sauce
were always the thing thateverybody talked about, and
especially garlic sauce.
Garlic sauce has its ownfollowing.
I mean, let's be clear.
And one of the things that wedid as a result was we really
(05:07):
leaned into garlic sauce.
And the current CMO there isdoing an amazing job of bringing
that into the TikTok age andcapitalizing on trends and doing
really interesting things.
And we started with launchingspicy garlic sauce, for
instance.
But that all came back to itwasn't, oh, let's just crassly
(05:29):
try to get a little bit moremoney by launching a spicy
garlic sauce.
It was, gosh, okay, if we alwaysgive a little something extra,
and one of the things everybodycan get their arms around is
garlic sauce, and everybodytalks about it and loves it.
Well, then let's keep extendingit and let's celebrate the
people who love it.
We actually got Chrissy Teagan,I remember, even in the midst of
(05:52):
some of the craziness we hadgoing on.
Chrissy Teagan posted about thebrand, and we quickly had this
amazing social media coordinatorwho jumped into action, got our
graphic design department tomock up a label of our garlic
sauce that looked like thelabel, but it said Chrissy's
(06:13):
garlic sauce, John hands off,put it on a jug of garlic sauce,
and sent that along with a bunchof other swag.
We were all over her Instagramstories, and you know how much
money people pay for somethinglike that.
But it was a little thing.
(06:34):
It was rooted in something thatwas unique to the brand, but
more than that, it was rooted inthis idea of always giving a
little something extra, which isa part of the brand DNA.
SPEAKER_02 (06:47):
I love that because there are things in every brand
that you are doing right now,which are a little bit
different.
And I love that you just stop atthe garlic sauce or at the
pepperoncini.
It's like, no, no, no.
It's like, why do we do that?
And that's part of the DNA.
What is one step before that islike that's just what it looks
(07:11):
like.
But why is it?
Like, what are the roots of it?
Not just what do the leaves looklike?
And I love that when you get tothe DNA and the reason for
things being as opposed to justthat they are, that's really
powerful to because then youcould leverage that in so many
ways.
And you know, why does the spicygarlic talks, why did that feel
(07:31):
authentic?
Because it was rooted in thething that is authentic, which
is giving a little bit more.
And so I would challenge everylistener, and I think this is a
challenge I'm gonna come awaywith.
I know what we do better thananyone else, but the question
is, why do we do that betterthan anyone else?
What do we believe that makes itthat way?
(07:56):
And then how do we talk aboutthat more?
How do we lean into that more?
How do we do more innovationaround that, marketing around
that?
I love that, Melissa.
It's super, super powerful.
SPEAKER_00 (08:06):
And it can be really challenging to get to that very
bottom level.
I often joke that sometimesright before the breakthrough is
when somebody wants to throwtheir computer at me.
Because we're just, we keepsaying, no, no, no, but but why
is that?
Okay, but really, is thatsomething that only we could do?
(08:29):
Only our brand could do, orcould anybody do that?
Could a competitor do that?
Okay, then it's not the why.
It's not the part of our DNA.
SPEAKER_02 (08:37):
Or even if a competitor can do that, is it
authentic to them to do it, ordoes it seem like they're just
being a copycat?
SPEAKER_00 (08:45):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (08:46):
That is just so powerful.
And and all of this, what thisreally comes down to, Melissa,
is the guest experience.
And it's making sure that theguest is having a great
experience.
And so you have had such anincredible career sitting
frontline to top desk at theseincredible brands.
What do you think is one of themost important aspects of guest
(09:09):
experience nowadays?
SPEAKER_00 (09:10):
I think it's in the way that you deliver some
signature moments.
You know, think about welcome toMo's.
You know, you walk in the doorand there's a signature
greeting.
I'm a bit of a geek when itcomes to behavioral science.
And there's something called thepeak end rule.
(09:31):
And that's about the fact thatthe two parts of the experience
that someone's going to rememberthe most are the most
emotionally engaging, either bador great, and how it ends.
And so there's always asignature moment that you can
(09:54):
somehow bake into the end ofyour experience, whatever the
end of that experience is, thatcan have incredible power in how
you are seen from the whole ofyour guest experience.
I think about one of the firstbrands in the food service
(10:15):
industry that I got to work onwas Olive Garden.
And there's always those AndesMints, and there is a cult of
those Andes Mints.
And I think there would be riotsif they ever got rid of them
because everyone talks aboutthem.
And it really was a signaturemoment near from the start of
(10:36):
the brand.
So it was alwaysindifferentiated, but everybody
would get excited.
And if the server heard youtalking about the mints, they'd
bring you a load of them at theend.
So what happens?
Everybody's talking about, oh mygosh, we got so many more mints.
Oh my gosh, we got mints.
And they're giving them out topeople.
It's creating magic.
(10:57):
But I think what ovation does aswell is help guarantee that that
end experience, especially if itdidn't go well when they left
the restaurant or they got theirorder, is it gives you an
opportunity to still put thatsignature moment on the end.
Because if you immediately getfeedback that, oh, something
(11:20):
didn't go well, and you knowwhat your brand DNA is, then you
can respond in a way that feelsauthentic and unique in saying,
I'm sorry, we screwed up, thisdidn't go right.
Here's how we're going to fixit.
Here's what we're going to dofor you.
So having that immediate guestfeedback is incredibly powerful.
(11:43):
And if you match it with yourbrand DNA, it becomes a
signature moment to build aloyal fan.
SPEAKER_02 (11:53):
That's so true because one of the things that
everyone is searching for,regardless of if it's naturally
in your DNA or not, as arestaurant brand, is that
connection, is that hospitality.
And we have found that a guestwho had a negative experience
with proper service recovery isworth 24 times more than your
(12:15):
average guest because they comein four times more often, they
spend$5 more, they come in fourand a half times more
frequently, and they're 12 timesmore likely to leave you a
five-star review.
And so when you look at thatdata about what is it, and I
think that when you get down toyour brand DNA, then you take it
down to just human DNA, we allwant to feel important.
(12:37):
We all want to feel connection.
We all want to feel like wematter to someone.
And every single interactionthat makes us feel not
important, like we don't matterto someone, creates an animosity
that goes so much deeper thanyou just forgot my burger.
It's no, no, no.
(12:58):
I am not important enough foryou to remember my burger.
And so when I get home and Ihave my five burgers, and I get
home and I open up the bag andthere's four in there, that's
more than just a I'm frustrated.
It is a affront on who I am andwhat I'm searching for and
feeling fulfilled and not justbeing filled.
SPEAKER_00 (13:20):
You treated me like a number, you didn't treat me
like a person, and that level ofauthenticity and that level of
not just that, oh my gosh, yourecognized me, but you gave me
what felt like a personalresponse.
(13:42):
I was it was a personal responseas opposed to, oh well, you get
that.
How often does that form emailjust even infuriate you more?
It is almost worse than if youdidn't apologize at all.
Like, oh, you just sent off theform email and that was it.
SPEAKER_02 (14:02):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think there is somethinginteresting there to dive into
the data of does a bad response,is a bad response less likely to
win back an upset guest than noresponse.
Anyway, I'm curious to dive intothat.
SPEAKER_00 (14:19):
Yeah, well, and that's where having a truly
differentiated personality andtone that's built in your DNA
makes a difference.
Like for instance, I think Imentioned to you when we were
chatting that I hate the wordfriendly in any sort of brand
(14:39):
personality or DNA because itdoesn't really tell you how to
behave.
But if I tell you that we arefolksy or we're gregarious, or
we're thoughtful, that gives youa different language, a
different man, a different wayto respond.
(15:00):
So you think of what a folksyapology would be, or what a
thoughtful apology would be, ora gregarious apology would be.
And they each take on differentshades of language, but they
feel more human than if I justsay be friendly.
SPEAKER_02 (15:21):
That's really powerful.
And I think that so much of thisis so powerful because what
we're talking about, uh again,it's like uh what the seed is
will determine the plant.
And if you're planting thetruest, most clear thing that
you can, then uh the uh closestto what you're looking for will
(15:43):
will grow.
It's just like AI.
If I tell AI, here's a pictureof someone, have them ride a
horse.
Uh it's like there's a lot thatthe AI has to assume.
Now, if I say uh they're inTexas in the 1800s, riding a
horse for a shootout with thesheriff, the AI will create an
(16:08):
image that's much more clear.
So too, we must be in how we'rebuilding our brains.
The clearer we are in who weare, the more accurate
everyone's gonna be able torespond to that.
And I gotta tell you, Melissa, Ienjoyed our conversation when we
first met and like obviouslylooking into you, like very
impressive.
(16:28):
I have never written down somany to-dos.
I'm sitting here, like, I'vewritten down like four things to
do.
And so I hear I'm like, withProfessor MRP here just getting
my homework.
No, but I appreciate it becauseI feel like anyone who's
(16:49):
listening that's thinking abouttheir brand should be uh taking
uh notes furiously of like whatdo I need to do to improve?
Because these kinds of tacticsaffect every other tactic that
you will do.
And so anyway, just reallyappreciate that.
And speaking of tactics, I dowant to just get to a couple of
(17:11):
things that you have found thatactually have improved the guest
experience.
SPEAKER_00 (17:16):
So I think as I was talking about having that unique
signature ownable moment, youjust have to exude the DNA of
your brand.
So, how do you figure out how toexude the DNA of your brand?
If a small number of people areactually delivering on a great
(17:40):
experience every day, then youneed to not only have a great
experience, but one that's goingto drive brand love.
And that means that how do youtake the whole of the time that
someone spends with you anddemonstrate that you are
uniquely you as a brand.
(18:02):
So what's really great is thatif you come up with things that
you know you want people to sayor do, or you want your team to
experience in the time thatthey're with a guest in whatever
space that is, or on your appsor in your third-party
experiences, how do youreinforce those moments?
(18:25):
And then what you can do withovation is use those questions
that you can ask the next daythat you can send to see how
well you're delivering on someof those unique things.
We talked about Welcome toMoe's, and we talked about is
there a signature goodbye, or isthere something that you can do
(18:46):
when someone brings the checkthat helps you remember them and
take a little piece of yourrestaurant or your place home
with you?
Or is it something that you dowithin technology that you make
it really easy for people tosplit the check if you are a
concept that has a group ofpeople, lots of groups of people
(19:08):
dining together?
I hope that a place likeMagianos is thinking about how
we can do a better job ofdelivering a check splitting app
that people can pay and they canbe in control and they can have
all those uncomfortableconversations rather than
feeling like they have to splaya litany of things to the
(19:29):
server.
SPEAKER_02 (19:30):
Totally, completely agree with that.
And man, Melissa, the time hasjust flown by.
I just looked at the clock.
I didn't even realize that we'relike over time here, but this
has been such a greatconversation.
Last two questions.
Who deserves innovation in therestaurant industry?
Who is someone that we should befollowing?
SPEAKER_00 (19:47):
I am so lucky to call this woman a friend.
Her name is Carrie Diamond, andCarrie is the founder of a
platform called Cherry Bomb.
She's on Instagram atCarrieBomb, but all the Cherry
Bomb channels should be a mustfollow because she covers
restaurant people, food makers,beverage makers, content
(20:10):
creators.
And so if you're looking forways to be unique and reinforce
the DNA of your brand, you'regoing to hear from all sides of
the industry, which is amazing.
SPEAKER_02 (20:20):
Wow.
Yeah, I definitely just uhgiving her a follow and reach
out to her to bring on thepodcast, just looking at what
she does.
Like, holy cow, she does someamazing content on there.
SPEAKER_00 (20:30):
She's fantastic.
SPEAKER_02 (20:32):
So awesome.
Before we finish up, how dopeople find and follow you?
SPEAKER_00 (20:36):
I am on LinkedIn, Melissa Richards person, Melissa
Richards-person, and third armconsulting on LinkedIn.
And then if you love theintersection of food, music,
sports, and cats.
SPEAKER_02 (20:50):
Oh, oh.
Awesome.
Well, for helping us not justunderstand what we do, but why
(21:10):
we do it, and for giving me morehomework than any other guest.
Today's ovation goes to you.
Thank you for joining us on GiveIt Ovation.
SPEAKER_00 (21:18):
Absolute pleasure, Zach.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (21:21):
Thanks for joining us today.
If you like this episode, leaveus a review on Apple Podcasts or
your favorite place to listen.
We're all about feedback here.
Again, this episode wassponsored by Ovation, a two
question SMS-based, actionableguest feedback platform built
for multi unit restaurants.
If you'd like to learn how wecan help you measure and create
a better guest experience, visitus at ovationup.com.
Welcome to another edition of Give and Ovation, the
Restaurant Guest Experiencepodcast.
I'm your host, Zach O, and eachweek I chat with industry
experts to uncover theirstrategies and tactics to help
you create a five-star guestexperience.
This podcast is powered byOvation, the feedback and
operations platform built formulti-unit restaurants.
(00:20):
Learn what is actually happeningin your restaurants and exactly
how to improve while drivingrevenue.
Learn more at ovationup.com.
And today I am so excitedbecause we have Melissa Richard
Person here who did I get thatfull name correctly, Melissa?
SPEAKER_00 (00:37):
You did, you did, but a lot of my restaurant
friends call me MRP.
So feel free to use that.
SPEAKER_02 (00:42):
Okay.
MRP.
I mean, if you have followed heron LinkedIn, you just know the
incredible career that she'shad.
And she has been, as we weretalking about right before we
hit record, not just at thetable, but behind the steering
wheel of some extremelyinfluential brands at extremely
(01:05):
pivotal times.
We're talking brand director ofKSC.
We're talking almost a dozenyears as the uh over at Papa
John's, where she finished offas chief brand officer.
She's been CMO, marketing lead.
She advises different VCs andstartups and companies.
And now she's at third armconsulting, working with all
(01:26):
kinds of brands, helping them toimprove their brand voice, their
marketing presence.
And so I am so excited, Melissa,to have you on the podcast.
SPEAKER_00 (01:36):
Thank you, Zach.
I'm excited to be here.
I feel really fortunate becauseyou've talked to some of my
favorite people that I've workedwith throughout my career,
including Justin Falciolarecently, who he and I worked
together at Top of John's, andPerry Rogers, who I got the
honor of working with whenduring our time with Shaquille
O'Neal as our brand ambassador.
(01:57):
So yeah, it's great to be here.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (02:00):
Well, you are in good company right in here.
Now, as we think about the guestexperience, first of all, I
don't know how much you'reallowed to share, but I would
love to just ask your opinion onhow was it during the Papa
John's transformation fromhaving Papa John be the face and
(02:23):
the head to not, as you'rerunning the brand, how do you
transition when the main thing,the logo is no longer there?
How did you do that?
SPEAKER_00 (02:34):
So I use a phrase a lot called brand DNA.
And really the core of myconsulting practice now is
helping companies unlock theirbrand DNA and use it to drive
everything from innovation toloyalty to content to products
(02:55):
and growth.
And that was really what weneeded to focus on.
We needed to focus on reallywhat was Papa John's authentic
DNA.
And brand DNA is really the coreof how you deliver a
differentiated guest experienceas well.
(03:16):
If you know your brand DNA, thenyou're going to behave in a way
that feels natural, authentic,but also different.
SPEAKER_02 (03:27):
But I mean, I feel like, especially in that
situation, and everyone facesthis in one way or another.
I think this one is just onethat is so textbook of the main
leader is gone.
Like if Jimmy John was kickedout of Jimmy John's, right?
It's like part of it is justbecause of the name, it's like
(03:47):
that feels like so much of thebrand DNA is that individual.
So how do you separate that?
How did you guys tease out whatis an individual and what is the
brand?
SPEAKER_00 (04:00):
Well, specifically, what this is a lesson for really
is any concept that has afounder at the center, you have
to understand what the qualitiesare that everyone believes in.
And so just like any other brandthat has a founder at their
(04:25):
center at some point, you haveto say, okay, that person can't
be everywhere every time.
So what are the things thatreally are uniquely ours that
don't belong to any of ourcompetitors?
Great example.
Papa John's believed in andstill does, you always get a
(04:46):
little something extra when youorder from that brand.
And that could be thepepperoncini and garlic sauce
were always the thing thateverybody talked about, and
especially garlic sauce.
Garlic sauce has its ownfollowing.
I mean, let's be clear.
And one of the things that wedid as a result was we really
(05:07):
leaned into garlic sauce.
And the current CMO there isdoing an amazing job of bringing
that into the TikTok age andcapitalizing on trends and doing
really interesting things.
And we started with launchingspicy garlic sauce, for
instance.
But that all came back to itwasn't, oh, let's just crassly
(05:29):
try to get a little bit moremoney by launching a spicy
garlic sauce.
It was, gosh, okay, if we alwaysgive a little something extra,
and one of the things everybodycan get their arms around is
garlic sauce, and everybodytalks about it and loves it.
Well, then let's keep extendingit and let's celebrate the
people who love it.
We actually got Chrissy Teagan,I remember, even in the midst of
(05:52):
some of the craziness we hadgoing on.
Chrissy Teagan posted about thebrand, and we quickly had this
amazing social media coordinatorwho jumped into action, got our
graphic design department tomock up a label of our garlic
sauce that looked like thelabel, but it said Chrissy's
(06:13):
garlic sauce, John hands off,put it on a jug of garlic sauce,
and sent that along with a bunchof other swag.
We were all over her Instagramstories, and you know how much
money people pay for somethinglike that.
But it was a little thing.
(06:34):
It was rooted in something thatwas unique to the brand, but
more than that, it was rooted inthis idea of always giving a
little something extra, which isa part of the brand DNA.
SPEAKER_02 (06:47):
I love that because there are things in every brand
that you are doing right now,which are a little bit
different.
And I love that you just stop atthe garlic sauce or at the
pepperoncini.
It's like, no, no, no.
It's like, why do we do that?
And that's part of the DNA.
What is one step before that islike that's just what it looks
(07:11):
like.
But why is it?
Like, what are the roots of it?
Not just what do the leaves looklike?
And I love that when you get tothe DNA and the reason for
things being as opposed to justthat they are, that's really
powerful to because then youcould leverage that in so many
ways.
And you know, why does the spicygarlic talks, why did that feel
(07:31):
authentic?
Because it was rooted in thething that is authentic, which
is giving a little bit more.
And so I would challenge everylistener, and I think this is a
challenge I'm gonna come awaywith.
I know what we do better thananyone else, but the question
is, why do we do that betterthan anyone else?
What do we believe that makes itthat way?
(07:56):
And then how do we talk aboutthat more?
How do we lean into that more?
How do we do more innovationaround that, marketing around
that?
I love that, Melissa.
It's super, super powerful.
SPEAKER_00 (08:06):
And it can be really challenging to get to that very
bottom level.
I often joke that sometimesright before the breakthrough is
when somebody wants to throwtheir computer at me.
Because we're just, we keepsaying, no, no, no, but but why
is that?
Okay, but really, is thatsomething that only we could do?
(08:29):
Only our brand could do, orcould anybody do that?
Could a competitor do that?
Okay, then it's not the why.
It's not the part of our DNA.
SPEAKER_02 (08:37):
Or even if a competitor can do that, is it
authentic to them to do it, ordoes it seem like they're just
being a copycat?
SPEAKER_00 (08:45):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (08:46):
That is just so powerful.
And and all of this, what thisreally comes down to, Melissa,
is the guest experience.
And it's making sure that theguest is having a great
experience.
And so you have had such anincredible career sitting
frontline to top desk at theseincredible brands.
What do you think is one of themost important aspects of guest
(09:09):
experience nowadays?
SPEAKER_00 (09:10):
I think it's in the way that you deliver some
signature moments.
You know, think about welcome toMo's.
You know, you walk in the doorand there's a signature
greeting.
I'm a bit of a geek when itcomes to behavioral science.
And there's something called thepeak end rule.
(09:31):
And that's about the fact thatthe two parts of the experience
that someone's going to rememberthe most are the most
emotionally engaging, either bador great, and how it ends.
And so there's always asignature moment that you can
(09:54):
somehow bake into the end ofyour experience, whatever the
end of that experience is, thatcan have incredible power in how
you are seen from the whole ofyour guest experience.
I think about one of the firstbrands in the food service
(10:15):
industry that I got to work onwas Olive Garden.
And there's always those AndesMints, and there is a cult of
those Andes Mints.
And I think there would be riotsif they ever got rid of them
because everyone talks aboutthem.
And it really was a signaturemoment near from the start of
(10:36):
the brand.
So it was alwaysindifferentiated, but everybody
would get excited.
And if the server heard youtalking about the mints, they'd
bring you a load of them at theend.
So what happens?
Everybody's talking about, oh mygosh, we got so many more mints.
Oh my gosh, we got mints.
And they're giving them out topeople.
It's creating magic.
(10:57):
But I think what ovation does aswell is help guarantee that that
end experience, especially if itdidn't go well when they left
the restaurant or they got theirorder, is it gives you an
opportunity to still put thatsignature moment on the end.
Because if you immediately getfeedback that, oh, something
(11:20):
didn't go well, and you knowwhat your brand DNA is, then you
can respond in a way that feelsauthentic and unique in saying,
I'm sorry, we screwed up, thisdidn't go right.
Here's how we're going to fixit.
Here's what we're going to dofor you.
So having that immediate guestfeedback is incredibly powerful.
(11:43):
And if you match it with yourbrand DNA, it becomes a
signature moment to build aloyal fan.
SPEAKER_02 (11:53):
That's so true because one of the things that
everyone is searching for,regardless of if it's naturally
in your DNA or not, as arestaurant brand, is that
connection, is that hospitality.
And we have found that a guestwho had a negative experience
with proper service recovery isworth 24 times more than your
(12:15):
average guest because they comein four times more often, they
spend$5 more, they come in fourand a half times more
frequently, and they're 12 timesmore likely to leave you a
five-star review.
And so when you look at thatdata about what is it, and I
think that when you get down toyour brand DNA, then you take it
down to just human DNA, we allwant to feel important.
(12:37):
We all want to feel connection.
We all want to feel like wematter to someone.
And every single interactionthat makes us feel not
important, like we don't matterto someone, creates an animosity
that goes so much deeper thanyou just forgot my burger.
It's no, no, no.
(12:58):
I am not important enough foryou to remember my burger.
And so when I get home and Ihave my five burgers, and I get
home and I open up the bag andthere's four in there, that's
more than just a I'm frustrated.
It is a affront on who I am andwhat I'm searching for and
feeling fulfilled and not justbeing filled.
SPEAKER_00 (13:20):
You treated me like a number, you didn't treat me
like a person, and that level ofauthenticity and that level of
not just that, oh my gosh, yourecognized me, but you gave me
what felt like a personalresponse.
(13:42):
I was it was a personal responseas opposed to, oh well, you get
that.
How often does that form emailjust even infuriate you more?
It is almost worse than if youdidn't apologize at all.
Like, oh, you just sent off theform email and that was it.
SPEAKER_02 (14:02):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think there is somethinginteresting there to dive into
the data of does a bad response,is a bad response less likely to
win back an upset guest than noresponse.
Anyway, I'm curious to dive intothat.
SPEAKER_00 (14:19):
Yeah, well, and that's where having a truly
differentiated personality andtone that's built in your DNA
makes a difference.
Like for instance, I think Imentioned to you when we were
chatting that I hate the wordfriendly in any sort of brand
(14:39):
personality or DNA because itdoesn't really tell you how to
behave.
But if I tell you that we arefolksy or we're gregarious, or
we're thoughtful, that gives youa different language, a
different man, a different wayto respond.
(15:00):
So you think of what a folksyapology would be, or what a
thoughtful apology would be, ora gregarious apology would be.
And they each take on differentshades of language, but they
feel more human than if I justsay be friendly.
SPEAKER_02 (15:21):
That's really powerful.
And I think that so much of thisis so powerful because what
we're talking about, uh again,it's like uh what the seed is
will determine the plant.
And if you're planting thetruest, most clear thing that
you can, then uh the uh closestto what you're looking for will
(15:43):
will grow.
It's just like AI.
If I tell AI, here's a pictureof someone, have them ride a
horse.
Uh it's like there's a lot thatthe AI has to assume.
Now, if I say uh they're inTexas in the 1800s, riding a
horse for a shootout with thesheriff, the AI will create an
(16:08):
image that's much more clear.
So too, we must be in how we'rebuilding our brains.
The clearer we are in who weare, the more accurate
everyone's gonna be able torespond to that.
And I gotta tell you, Melissa, Ienjoyed our conversation when we
first met and like obviouslylooking into you, like very
impressive.
(16:28):
I have never written down somany to-dos.
I'm sitting here, like, I'vewritten down like four things to
do.
And so I hear I'm like, withProfessor MRP here just getting
my homework.
No, but I appreciate it becauseI feel like anyone who's
(16:49):
listening that's thinking abouttheir brand should be uh taking
uh notes furiously of like whatdo I need to do to improve?
Because these kinds of tacticsaffect every other tactic that
you will do.
And so anyway, just reallyappreciate that.
And speaking of tactics, I dowant to just get to a couple of
(17:11):
things that you have found thatactually have improved the guest
experience.
SPEAKER_00 (17:16):
So I think as I was talking about having that unique
signature ownable moment, youjust have to exude the DNA of
your brand.
So, how do you figure out how toexude the DNA of your brand?
If a small number of people areactually delivering on a great
(17:40):
experience every day, then youneed to not only have a great
experience, but one that's goingto drive brand love.
And that means that how do youtake the whole of the time that
someone spends with you anddemonstrate that you are
uniquely you as a brand.
(18:02):
So what's really great is thatif you come up with things that
you know you want people to sayor do, or you want your team to
experience in the time thatthey're with a guest in whatever
space that is, or on your appsor in your third-party
experiences, how do youreinforce those moments?
(18:25):
And then what you can do withovation is use those questions
that you can ask the next daythat you can send to see how
well you're delivering on someof those unique things.
We talked about Welcome toMoe's, and we talked about is
there a signature goodbye, or isthere something that you can do
(18:46):
when someone brings the checkthat helps you remember them and
take a little piece of yourrestaurant or your place home
with you?
Or is it something that you dowithin technology that you make
it really easy for people tosplit the check if you are a
concept that has a group ofpeople, lots of groups of people
(19:08):
dining together?
I hope that a place likeMagianos is thinking about how
we can do a better job ofdelivering a check splitting app
that people can pay and they canbe in control and they can have
all those uncomfortableconversations rather than
feeling like they have to splaya litany of things to the
(19:29):
server.
SPEAKER_02 (19:30):
Totally, completely agree with that.
And man, Melissa, the time hasjust flown by.
I just looked at the clock.
I didn't even realize that we'relike over time here, but this
has been such a greatconversation.
Last two questions.
Who deserves innovation in therestaurant industry?
Who is someone that we should befollowing?
SPEAKER_00 (19:47):
I am so lucky to call this woman a friend.
Her name is Carrie Diamond, andCarrie is the founder of a
platform called Cherry Bomb.
She's on Instagram atCarrieBomb, but all the Cherry
Bomb channels should be a mustfollow because she covers
restaurant people, food makers,beverage makers, content
(20:10):
creators.
And so if you're looking forways to be unique and reinforce
the DNA of your brand, you'regoing to hear from all sides of
the industry, which is amazing.
SPEAKER_02 (20:20):
Wow.
Yeah, I definitely just uhgiving her a follow and reach
out to her to bring on thepodcast, just looking at what
she does.
Like, holy cow, she does someamazing content on there.
SPEAKER_00 (20:30):
She's fantastic.
SPEAKER_02 (20:32):
So awesome.
Before we finish up, how dopeople find and follow you?
SPEAKER_00 (20:36):
I am on LinkedIn, Melissa Richards person, Melissa
Richards-person, and third armconsulting on LinkedIn.
And then if you love theintersection of food, music,
sports, and cats.
SPEAKER_02 (20:50):
Oh, oh.
Awesome.
Well, for helping us not justunderstand what we do, but why
(21:10):
we do it, and for giving me morehomework than any other guest.
Today's ovation goes to you.
Thank you for joining us on GiveIt Ovation.
SPEAKER_00 (21:18):
Absolute pleasure, Zach.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (21:21):
Thanks for joining us today.
If you like this episode, leaveus a review on Apple Podcasts or
your favorite place to listen.
We're all about feedback here.
Again, this episode wassponsored by Ovation, a two
question SMS-based, actionableguest feedback platform built
for multi unit restaurants.
If you'd like to learn how wecan help you measure and create
a better guest experience, visitus at ovationup.com.
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